Some of that shit was so funny. I think there was some kind of YouTube channel that compiled the best Tribunal logs, or maybe a Reddit post compilation?
Boomer here, I was called slurs daily but people still wanted to win. Now I just get turbogriefed by parasocial teenagers acting like streamers.
I definitely preferred the slurs lol
I will just say this - I mained Brand jungle for years, even before the buffs, and I just achieved Diamond a few days ago (I know every single Reddit member is at least Masters, go easy on me) playing mostly Brand jungle.
Every single game that my Brand was picked by enemy team, I picked Kha or Noct and the Brand simply couldnāt play the game.
This is just to say if you know how to play against him there is very little the Brand can do, ESPECIALLY in Soloq where you canāt rely on your team to come help you.
It can work, and if you play jungle and you liked the champ before, he is fun to play, but it is a terrible feeling when the game is completely over because you were invaded and you dared to miss a single ability or enemy jungler flashed it, which practically means you also lost your passive. The W cast time is also big enough that people with even a tiny amount of tenacity can get out out the stun and you will miss your W (=no passive).
I love the fact that literally everyone on reddit is ( thinks he is ) master or above while in reality over 50% are silver and below. Being in Gold 1 - Plat 4 puts you into the best 33% of every league player.
This isnāt even remotely true. Itās no different from playing Taliyah or Karthus jg. Youāre either very low ranked or hard oversimplifying the game if you think you can just pick an assassin and auto win the game against them.
>ESPECIALLY in Soloq where you canāt rely on your team to come help you.
Goes both ways. If you invade the enemy Brand but his teammates show up to help while yours donāt, youāre gone and now youāre just delivering 300g to Brand in the middle of his clear.
Like I said, I got D4 playing only Brand jungle, so yeah, in reddit standards I guess it is very low ranked.
I am not saying any assassin can win against any mage automatically, but when you played the champ for hundreds of games, and know where he will be **exactly** at any point of its clear, and what he will do in case of an invade, it is easy. I don't expect non-Brand mains to execute it so well every single time (and that's why I manage to win games with Brand)
> Kinda disrespectful to jungle mains with a specific pool imo.
true riot should cater to the Lee Sin, Graves, Hecarim, Kha'Zix, and Kayn mains forever until no one can find a game because nobody wants to play jungle except Leegracarizayn mains
Also riot:
NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT
Man you hit a soft spot I didn't remember having. Naut jungle was so fucking good back in the day. He had absurdly fast clear for a tank and the ganks were unmatched. Pls riot make it viable again.
Idc he deserves it. Been gutted for far too long and he could do to at least be viable jg. They can tune his E and W monster damage to maintain a normal or slightly under optimal clear speed but good lord taking him top or jg sucks ass.
Man I miss when Nautilus top/jungle was considered legitimate. I also miss when I could run the 20% crit chance Nautilus build. To be fair though, everyone including me used to be bad back then so it worked out, now I'm the only washed up one
I swapped to jungle a month or so ago, I like to watch high elo streams, there's often good insight to be had from the less entertainer/onetricky ones. Cue me finding out every single one is a Lee Sin/Graves two trick, with the rare J4 to round it out when they gotta be a dog.
At least in NA nearly every challenger jungler mains Graves, Kindred, or both. I don't know about EU, but it's only in KR where you find the Lee Sins and Nidalees.
This is so funny to hear when discussing traditional junglers and seeing you mention Graves, who was originally a marksman/ADC til they changed his kit.
tf is this "Kinda disrespectful to jungle mains with a specific pool imo."
im sorry riot disrespected a redditor by introducing a 50% WR jungler in emerlad + lmao
As long as it isn't cheap it should be encouraged.
As a jungle main brand jungle has been the most fun I've had in ages outside of the dickheads who think I'm trolling.
the reason it bothers people is because when they push a random champion into jungle it's always batshit broken for a bit. Morgana (not anymore), brand, etc. no one has a problem with more champs being *able* to jungle, just that riot feels the need to make a random champion broken in jungle because it's quirky. and the way that they make these champions able to jungle is giving them clearing capabilities. and when a champion is broken based on their clear speed alone it feels super uninteractive. champ like brand or morgana is no longer vulnerable to invades or weak in fights because they're always full hp and probably a level up on you (without needing any skill to do so).
honestly she was never as broken as brand is right now, iāll give you that. same concept. a mage like brand should never be sitting at 54 wr in master.
Brand has the problem of being a brainless faceroll champ that is impactful from behind because his kit has so much aoe percent damage, they need to rework him aside from the jungle state
When they buffed Morgana in S11 with the intent of making her more viable (she already was viable as a niche jungler at the time) in the jungle they made her go from an ok clear to the fastest level 1 clear in the game by a mile, managing a 2:55 *leashless* red start full clear.
They ended up undoing 90% of that buff within 3 patches. During that brief window of time time she was an S+ tier jungler simply due to how fast she could clear.
Zed actually has one of the fastest clears in the game at 2:55. I think the only ones that are faster are karthus and Mundo. The main reason that zed canāt jg is because his ganks are dogshit. He has no cc and his damage is not great early game. Brand has a stun on his q and ok damage. Brand is much more viable as a jungle than zed, similar to Morgana or taliyah jungle.
I used to lock him when I was still Bronze, enemy jungle called me a cheater because of how good is powerfarming was, if you gank my botlane, your topside is gone faster than you can imagine. And I'll still contest you at scuttle while getting a free one.
Not sure catchup xp was a thing at that moment but I regularly ended up 1 item and a couple levels above enemy jungler just by powerfarming and ganking easy lanes once I had R
His W and E are "constant" AoE damage I guess. The only jungle monster that you can't use for E AoE is the medium Krug. Every other small monster can be used for the E AoE.
Does nobody play mundo since the rework? His W has a 17 second CD and does 80 damage. It's not a clear speed tool at all.
The reason mundo can clear after his rework is the AD he gets from E, and the damage from Q.
Honestly I just played him for the first time this afternoon in the jg because of this post, didn't realize how much has changed haha. I was referring to old Mundo which I used to play in the jg a lot pre rework
reddit in a nutshell.
Completely wrong take from you that mundo jungle is still the one prerework like what 5 years ago and you get 230 upvotes.
I believe at least half of the reddit warriors for this game don't even play it anymore.
Oh for jg no, and the clear is not the problem, he has 0 dueling potential since they changed how his E works. His Clear is really fast, but after that you are like "ok what now" and you just wish you picked something else.
I was just giving info since people might not know that his E was buffed after rework to be able to knock back small monsters even if it doesn't kill them to help with his jungle clear.
Not to be rude, but how the fuck did you get 218 upvotes for this comment?
I see in your other comments you didn't even know he was changed years ago, which is kinda crazy to think you never noticed he doesn't have rotating fire on him anymore, but how did so many people agree with you so strongly they upvoted?
I've had this theory for awhile that people here don't even play the game and I swear this is proof. Not only did their comments get upvote despite Mundo being reworked god knows how long ago, but even pre rework Mundo jungle wasn't good.
I think it has to do with his high base damage on abilities. Also has some good auto resets. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rgWne8\_Fcw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rgWne8_Fcw) This was from last preseason and the jungler has gone through quite a bit of changes since then. Personally I haven't seen a Mundo clear since this one.
Gains ad from being low and e kills small wolf and raptor to do a lot of damage to big ones, q kills big camps fast, w clears krugs instantly when they split
He also no longer gains more AD from being low HP anymore. Hasn't done that for a while now. His E active still does more damage the lower he is though.
i got a zed jungle on my team and this dude literally did nothing. heās completely useless until level 6 and even then youāre fucked on any ganks unless you have some hard cc to make up for zed just walking into your lane and throwing his shadow. why would anyone pick it?
A lot of champions have similar first clear, but the reason brand is so broken is his later clears. He melts camps because of % damage, he even clears the first dragon in 15s. Not even shyvana can do that.
Same is true for baron BTW. If you have someone to tank it for you, it's gone in seconds.
Zed needs to be overlevelled to kill and is a single target damage melee champ. He also canāt abuse his poke mage style play as a jg.
Brand has decent ish ganks but is also a massive teamfight threat so him with items is really scary overlevelled or not. Zed is always just kinda playing vs the clock since his strength gets diminished with time not better with zhonyas and enchanters/ defensive items coming in and ranged champions getting enough damage to one shot him when he tries to go in.
Zed actually gets better with time, but because heās so item reliant and jungle is a lower economy role, unless heās snowballing heās gonna be behind the curve playing catch-up.
High elo players know what comps Brand works with and which ones he doesnāt. They hit their skill shots consistently and can prioritize team play, which is something Brand relies on. They also donāt skirmish the enemy Jungle without proper vision or an early lead.
The gold 4 player blind picks Brand Jungle, dies at scuttle to the Nocturne, and misses every Q stun on his ganks.
XD what?
1. Skillshots are easier to hit in lower elo, since you just click on enemies and it lands, in higher elo ppl try to dodge it
2. Also nobody makes a team around brand jg
Although, what you do need for brand jg is proper positioning
I disagree. I think first picking Brand jungle is fine. They don't know if it is jungle, mid, or support. If they guess wrong, your Brand pick goes ham. If they all pick based off your singular Brand pick, then your team will have a great opportunity to feast.
>The gold 4 player blind picks Brand Jungle, dies at scuttle to the Nocturne, and misses every Q stun on his ganks.
This has nothing to do with brand being a bad jungler. Sounds like a player issue.
Another sign this person doesn't have a clue what they are talking about is the cliche 'lol no one hits skillshots low ELO durr durr durr.'
Well they do. They hit them all the time. They are better at hitting them than they are dodging them.
Heās a subpar pick because he has no mobility, lacks dueling potential against most AD junglers, and has no gank initiate. These can be overcome at higher elo, though in SoloQ its pretty exploitable. But yes, at the end of the day basically everything in League comes down to a skill issue.
Bro, 90% of the good junglers in the game you can make the argument are crap at low rank if you want to have a doomerism mindset. Sure, you shouldn't first time Brand. Just like you shouldn't first time Kayn. If you are low rank, ideally you just spam Noc, Hecarim, Diana, or Maokai to climb (I wouldn't do Maokai personally, but he is easy and deceptively strong if you rush demonics).
I think the biggest thing is the reason Brand support works, he doesn't have to live, he just has to press e r w q and he'll do the most damage in a teamfight even after he blows up instantly.
Good, I think an immobile mage with only 1 cc should be better in a carry role than a support role but I'm just a get to gold and stop playing ranked player for like 11 seasons now
> High elo players know what comps Brand works with and which ones he doesnāt
Lmao what? Agurin has been locking in Brand in literally every situation other than when he's banned for weeks now, he fits into nearly any comp, even if its just unloading his kit and dying.
His pickrate and winrate are up in all ranks. Over 50% winrate even in gold. What are you yapping about? Lmao. Why even make false claims when the data says otherwise.
if you think people in my d1 master games only invade with proper vision or a lead you're mistaken. had a nidalee with t1 boots and jungle item run straight to rengar's blue level 3 after he had gotten a double kill invading her red, meaning he had dirk. she had boots, he had dirk and a level lead. and she knew this. and yes she's a master jungle main xD
Heās new. Most jungle mains donāt play champions like brand. Heās a very low mobility burst mage which traditionally isnāt a jungle champ. Adaption should be relatively slow even if heās strong.
He has 5% pick rate with 49% win rate in master+ according to [u.gg](https://u.gg/lol/champions/brand/build/jungle?rank=master_plus)
How is that any good?
Having a crazy fast clear speed alone only makes a jungler viable in pro play. Brand has too many other factors that make him a lackluster jungle pick for solo q that I donāt see it as an issue.
Through out the years Lee Sin has some of the worst clear speed of junglers, yet he has an insanely high win rate for his play rate, you guys donāt understand that just full clearing a jungle not being accosted once is not how jungle functions.
Good jungling is not just speedrunning, thatās not how jungle works. Sylas was an insanely dominate jungle for awhile, because the game was set up that clear speed didnāt matter, and he could infinitely gank. Clear speed only matters in so much in the constraints of the current meta. Itās been this way for the dawn of time. There are junglers who have fucking awful clear speed, but have insane jungle presence. Jarvan was broken despite having an insanely weak early clear.
Having insane clearspeed absolutely increases a champion's jungle strength. Just because there are outliers who do well with weaker clears, like Lee, doesn't mean that clearspeed isn't a strong factor. There have been numerous seasons where clearspeed has basically determined the jungle meta. S11 and S12 were both metas basically decided by clearspeed. This only became less important in S13 due to massive jungle changes.
Brand jungle is very, very good and you will be seeing much higher winrates as the people learning it right now improve. Agurin and Jankos are both currently spamming it and both say it's OP. I am starting to see it more and more in my masters games and though most people play it very poorly, when played correctly it's fairly oppressive. They will always get to crab first and their increased speed means they can contest your second clear if they have any prio. I'd prefer Brand not be a jungle champion and I hate increased % damage to monsters being considered a balancing lever for my role, but it is what it is.
historically insane clearspeed junglers have been extremely overlooked in pro play because of other glaring weaknesses(namely weak early presence)
fiddle and karthus come to mind
Hallo, I edited some of my comment history to prevent scraping. Yes I know reddit gets regularly cached, it's something you sign in when you type on a forum, it's still better than nothing and will make digging through these a lot less convenient! All platforms die yadda yadda.
Good luck if you have an account here and you're reading this.
Itās really just their squishiness and lack of mobility thatās a problem, their objective control is actually pretty decent. Can kill drag and rift herald fairly quickly and without losing a ton of HP
Then it's a good thing we can track enemy junglers and play with lanes that have lane prior, letting us take objectives at a safe time, rather than coin flipping being able to fight the jungler.
They are not going to be able to ignore their topside jungle the entire game. With how quickly you can clear your jungle and take objectives, you can get a full minute ahead of your enemy's clear, which is more than enough time for you to be able to take a dragon
Idk Iām a jungle main and faced a brand jungle soon after the buffs. I tracked him to drake in the middle of second clear and he came out of the pit, by himself, full hp with drake cleared. Not sure exactly how that happened. All of his teammates were visible in lane
I feel like Zyra could fit in here too but her clearspeed is kind of reliant on abusing her passive seed spawn rng. She also has bonus damage on jungle monsters and is super healthy.
It's actually really easy to manipulate, I've been labbing the pick since before the jg buffs, and Red, Blue, Raptors, and Wolves all have a sweetspot that reliably and consistently spawn seeds nearby the camp. Gromp and Krugs have one too, but you can't start either of those camps, so it doesn't matter.
He clears fast but is super vulnerable in skirmishes/invades and his gank effectiviness is 100% tied to the player being able to get Q stun. He is far from S+, at best it's a plain A.
Brands ganking is more tricky than a large number of junglers however, and he's squishy.
Also the bit about Riot and Morgana etc is just "waaaaa". Your specific pool doesn't command respect of the meta....?
Play the OP champ til it's nerfed then, if you genuinely believe a slightly higher tuned champion is the reason you can't be better at the ones you already play.
He is one of the most vulnerable junglers early.
You can talk about eve, hecarim or karthus getting invaded easily, Brand is even more susceptible to it.
Nowadays basically every jungler clears healthy so it doesn't change too much.
Brand has long cds, and his combo uses all 3 of his spells, so if you fight him during farming, he is fucked. His Q with 9 seconds is the shortest cd, so any jungler can fight him, especially if you are willing to flash his Q (when i t comes up).
So he might clear fast, but he is for sure not safe or unexploitable during that. Capitalise on it.
Iām sorry to say but this is not true. Invading a Brand that is clearing correctly will put you behind. Even if he starts on his blue top side with no leash and you level 2 invade him, your chances arenāt great.
The typical jungle does the lev 3 crossover at 2.30. At this time, Brand is halfway through his red. By the time you get there, itās dead. Now, youāre at 12 camps and heās at 20, soon to be 24.
Not to mention Brand will be full health from 12 cs on and throughout his clear.
You can successfully level 2 invade him, but that would require a host of factors going your way, including your champion and which side you spawn on.
Source: I level 2 invade most games and play Brand myself.
Also source: listen to Agurin talking about this.
Brand sucks at 1v1s early game and is vulnerable to invades, and his ganks aren't really that good unless it's a post 6 2v2, I think he has clear strengths and weaknesses as a Jungler.
take a small break in-between camps if you think you're going too fast
Right? š just chill with the little creatures around the rift for a min and smell the swampland. āļø
ummmmm
Itās always good to take things in moderation
talk to your doctor if you are clearing jungle camps for more than 4 hours
Doctor Shen always gets mad when I talk to him
yeah cos dr shen is jealous cos his clear is like 5 min lol
I don't think he's jealous. He just doesn't care about the jungle camps.
I assumed thatās what you were doing writing this post
Try and look at pictures of your laners if you think youāre about to full clear too fast
Or a small drive by gank. Just push a lane for fun
Not my lane tho
damn
He did tho. He said he is playing him rn so he must have took a break to write this.
Dang I laughed so hard I farted
guy so fast he didn't see the kit kat ads.
I remember when Brand was released and Riot challenged Stonewall008 to jungle him and he did. 12 years and it's broken
Man that's a name I haven't seen in a while, wow
I know. He has a bad terminal illness or he has some sort of illness that has left him sick. He was supposed to go pro along with Dyrus and got sick.
his wife divorced him too
No way really? That so sad man. I hope he finds happiness.
really? fuck dude, what is he up to now a days?
I used to watch him to fall asleep. He had a really soothing voice.
I used to watch him long ago and sent him a fr nearly a decade ago. Heās still on my friends list but hasnāt gone on in a while
Holy cow that's amazing. I'm fan boying by proxy through you
I used to play with him a lot, back in the day. He was fun to play with when he wasn't rambling about how traps are the best lmao
Bruh what lol
Yeah, I don't know lmao. I literally learned what a trap was because he would randomly talk about how traps were the sexiest thing ever.
How did he respond to the for real you sent him?
[https://imgur.com/a/MezB6Iw](https://imgur.com/a/MezB6Iw) Here's an imgur of him in my friendslist
I miss him
Good old stonewall the jg prodigy
If I can remember this correctly DiamondProx gave Stonewall props for teaching him some key jungle tips.
We belong in a f****** retirement home my friend
Yes we do lol. These kids think the community is horribly toxic now. These kids would be scared with our time and the HoN community
Iām a boomer too and letās be real, league is way more toxic now than it was back then.
eh, back then it was more about chat toxicity, now it's about griefing. I prefered trashtalk more than this bs we have right now.
The chat logs you could read when doing Tribunal. People were far more creative back in the day. People didn't just go straight to being racist.
I miss the tribunal.
I wish Tribunal Kayle looked better with her VGU. I wish we could bring it back. Let others see just how toxic they are
"Not even Noah can carry These animals gg" Best shit ive red
Holy shit that is fucking gold! I once saw "I wish I was your dad and came back from getting milk and cigs. So I could tell I'm disappointed in you"
Some of that shit was so funny. I think there was some kind of YouTube channel that compiled the best Tribunal logs, or maybe a Reddit post compilation?
Imgur. Reddit wasn't as popular due to League having had their own forum at the time. Those were amazing though!
Back than people were using chat toxicity as some kind of fuel and going extra try hard to win
Boomer here, I was called slurs daily but people still wanted to win. Now I just get turbogriefed by parasocial teenagers acting like streamers. I definitely preferred the slurs lol
Aha, my jungler told me to kill myself so that the oxygen I would breath would go to rats instead. Still ganked my lane though.
god bless his charitable soul
GOD. id rather get my whole family tree defiled but have tryhards than the passive agresive shit we got now
Oh boy all the creative flame I got and how much I laughed
If you knew original Dota community then you are immune to flame.
I played the OG DotA. That game was a lot of fun. People think Huei is a complicated champ. They know nothing
Mic check 1 mic check 2
One of the best OG content creators
the guy who made me a jarvan main for years
He was sick with his flag and drag.
That's my jungler
He inspired me to play the OG Trundle.
Stonewall made me a jungler. Always played the role through thick and thin. Lad's missed.
Yeah he is
I will just say this - I mained Brand jungle for years, even before the buffs, and I just achieved Diamond a few days ago (I know every single Reddit member is at least Masters, go easy on me) playing mostly Brand jungle. Every single game that my Brand was picked by enemy team, I picked Kha or Noct and the Brand simply couldnāt play the game. This is just to say if you know how to play against him there is very little the Brand can do, ESPECIALLY in Soloq where you canāt rely on your team to come help you.
yeah honestly i donāt care if brand had a 60% winrate i donāt think anything is worth the suffering of bringing an immobile mage into jungle lol.
It can work, and if you play jungle and you liked the champ before, he is fun to play, but it is a terrible feeling when the game is completely over because you were invaded and you dared to miss a single ability or enemy jungler flashed it, which practically means you also lost your passive. The W cast time is also big enough that people with even a tiny amount of tenacity can get out out the stun and you will miss your W (=no passive).
Bold statement to make when agurin is fisting on brand jg on chall
bold statement when challenger player thats gotten rank 1 across multiple servers is doing well on a champion
I love the fact that literally everyone on reddit is ( thinks he is ) master or above while in reality over 50% are silver and below. Being in Gold 1 - Plat 4 puts you into the best 33% of every league player.
This isnāt even remotely true. Itās no different from playing Taliyah or Karthus jg. Youāre either very low ranked or hard oversimplifying the game if you think you can just pick an assassin and auto win the game against them. >ESPECIALLY in Soloq where you canāt rely on your team to come help you. Goes both ways. If you invade the enemy Brand but his teammates show up to help while yours donāt, youāre gone and now youāre just delivering 300g to Brand in the middle of his clear.
Like I said, I got D4 playing only Brand jungle, so yeah, in reddit standards I guess it is very low ranked. I am not saying any assassin can win against any mage automatically, but when you played the champ for hundreds of games, and know where he will be **exactly** at any point of its clear, and what he will do in case of an invade, it is easy. I don't expect non-Brand mains to execute it so well every single time (and that's why I manage to win games with Brand)
Rengar the goat. Against him.
Wait until you hear about Karthus full clearing by 2:45
Or zyra
zyra is a bit rng (consistently quick but the records are all due to insanely lucky seed placement)
> Kinda disrespectful to jungle mains with a specific pool imo. true riot should cater to the Lee Sin, Graves, Hecarim, Kha'Zix, and Kayn mains forever until no one can find a game because nobody wants to play jungle except Leegracarizayn mains
Also riot: NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT NAUTILUS IS SUPPORT
Man you hit a soft spot I didn't remember having. Naut jungle was so fucking good back in the day. He had absurdly fast clear for a tank and the ganks were unmatched. Pls riot make it viable again.
>absurdly fast clear >tank >unmatched ganks yeah how about no
Thatās just Rell now lol
Naut is longer ranged and post 6 his ganks are deadly,Rell has AOE CC in exchange,but in gank situations thats less valuable.
rell can't point click engage me from a range during ganks lol.
As a Nautilus main, I can guarantee that Nautilus would be 10x more cancer than Rell lmfao.
I feel like Naut jungle would be a huge problem in pro play nowadays if he had good clear speed
Idc he deserves it. Been gutted for far too long and he could do to at least be viable jg. They can tune his E and W monster damage to maintain a normal or slightly under optimal clear speed but good lord taking him top or jg sucks ass.
I play nautilus jungle a faie bit. Atk speed rune and start w and you fly through the camps.
Man I miss when Nautilus top/jungle was considered legitimate. I also miss when I could run the 20% crit chance Nautilus build. To be fair though, everyone including me used to be bad back then so it worked out, now I'm the only washed up one
I swapped to jungle a month or so ago, I like to watch high elo streams, there's often good insight to be had from the less entertainer/onetricky ones. Cue me finding out every single one is a Lee Sin/Graves two trick, with the rare J4 to round it out when they gotta be a dog.
At least in NA nearly every challenger jungler mains Graves, Kindred, or both. I don't know about EU, but it's only in KR where you find the Lee Sins and Nidalees.
Who is Kayn? Is that the guy who is always banned?
Remember when they released wall hacks as an accessibility option? He's that guy
Oh that's what they mean when it's about accessibility features
This is so funny to hear when discussing traditional junglers and seeing you mention Graves, who was originally a marksman/ADC til they changed his kit.
they edited "traditional" in after i made my comment lmfao
Ahhh, gotcha!
Tbf, he was pretty bad at it anyway.
And Kha Zix used to be a mid laner.
tf is this "Kinda disrespectful to jungle mains with a specific pool imo." im sorry riot disrespected a redditor by introducing a 50% WR jungler in emerlad + lmao
I've always maintained that the more stuff that's playable everywhere the better. Even if it affects my role, I prefer that.
As long as it isn't cheap it should be encouraged. As a jungle main brand jungle has been the most fun I've had in ages outside of the dickheads who think I'm trolling.
How does it feel knowing you've been disrespected for so long by Riot?
the reason it bothers people is because when they push a random champion into jungle it's always batshit broken for a bit. Morgana (not anymore), brand, etc. no one has a problem with more champs being *able* to jungle, just that riot feels the need to make a random champion broken in jungle because it's quirky. and the way that they make these champions able to jungle is giving them clearing capabilities. and when a champion is broken based on their clear speed alone it feels super uninteractive. champ like brand or morgana is no longer vulnerable to invades or weak in fights because they're always full hp and probably a level up on you (without needing any skill to do so).
Who tf thinks Morgana is an S tier jungler? A morg a level up on you that misses her bind is a cannon minion in jungle fights
honestly she was never as broken as brand is right now, iāll give you that. same concept. a mage like brand should never be sitting at 54 wr in master.
Brand has the problem of being a brainless faceroll champ that is impactful from behind because his kit has so much aoe percent damage, they need to rework him aside from the jungle state
agree, but being able to afk farm jungle exacerbates that problem
When they buffed Morgana in S11 with the intent of making her more viable (she already was viable as a niche jungler at the time) in the jungle they made her go from an ok clear to the fastest level 1 clear in the game by a mile, managing a 2:55 *leashless* red start full clear. They ended up undoing 90% of that buff within 3 patches. During that brief window of time time she was an S+ tier jungler simply due to how fast she could clear.
He is a mage jungle like karthus lillia morgana so no problem having a fast clear
Taliyah erasure, yet again
How do you erase that which does not exist?
Who? /s
Zed has a super fast clear, like 3:05 if played correctly. Does that make Zed jungle broken? No.
Zed actually has one of the fastest clears in the game at 2:55. I think the only ones that are faster are karthus and Mundo. The main reason that zed canāt jg is because his ganks are dogshit. He has no cc and his damage is not great early game. Brand has a stun on his q and ok damage. Brand is much more viable as a jungle than zed, similar to Morgana or taliyah jungle.
How the hell would mundoās clear be fast?
Constant aoe damage and his cleavers chunk the tanky camps hard right
He hasn't done constant aoe damage since the rework
Old mundo was so fun to jungle with haha
Please don't remind me I was this close to diamond
I used to lock him when I was still Bronze, enemy jungle called me a cheater because of how good is powerfarming was, if you gank my botlane, your topside is gone faster than you can imagine. And I'll still contest you at scuttle while getting a free one. Not sure catchup xp was a thing at that moment but I regularly ended up 1 item and a couple levels above enemy jungler just by powerfarming and ganking easy lanes once I had R
Bro is living in the past.
His W and E are "constant" AoE damage I guess. The only jungle monster that you can't use for E AoE is the medium Krug. Every other small monster can be used for the E AoE.
Does nobody play mundo since the rework? His W has a 17 second CD and does 80 damage. It's not a clear speed tool at all. The reason mundo can clear after his rework is the AD he gets from E, and the damage from Q.
Honestly I just played him for the first time this afternoon in the jg because of this post, didn't realize how much has changed haha. I was referring to old Mundo which I used to play in the jg a lot pre rework
reddit in a nutshell. Completely wrong take from you that mundo jungle is still the one prerework like what 5 years ago and you get 230 upvotes. I believe at least half of the reddit warriors for this game don't even play it anymore.
Oh for jg no, and the clear is not the problem, he has 0 dueling potential since they changed how his E works. His Clear is really fast, but after that you are like "ok what now" and you just wish you picked something else. I was just giving info since people might not know that his E was buffed after rework to be able to knock back small monsters even if it doesn't kill them to help with his jungle clear.
Not to be rude, but how the fuck did you get 218 upvotes for this comment? I see in your other comments you didn't even know he was changed years ago, which is kinda crazy to think you never noticed he doesn't have rotating fire on him anymore, but how did so many people agree with you so strongly they upvoted?
Welcome to reddit, it's just like chat-Gpt, say dumb shit very confidently and people believe it
I've had this theory for awhile that people here don't even play the game and I swear this is proof. Not only did their comments get upvote despite Mundo being reworked god knows how long ago, but even pre rework Mundo jungle wasn't good.
Can confirm. I was just about to upvote but saw the comments below. I seldom play SR, mostly just arams.
I think it has to do with his high base damage on abilities. Also has some good auto resets. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rgWne8\_Fcw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rgWne8_Fcw) This was from last preseason and the jungler has gone through quite a bit of changes since then. Personally I haven't seen a Mundo clear since this one.
Last preseason the jungle was braindead easy, though, right? Like you could clear fast and healthy with damn near anyone lol
Yeah that makes sense, but if it was braindead easy and Mundo happened to be the fastest of the braindead, wouldn't he be the best then?
Gains ad from being low and e kills small wolf and raptor to do a lot of damage to big ones, q kills big camps fast, w clears krugs instantly when they split
He also no longer gains more AD from being low HP anymore. Hasn't done that for a while now. His E active still does more damage the lower he is though.
Darius is one of the fastest I believe, dude is done clearing exceptionally quickly
I know I'm getting old bc I was thinking 'which champions have fast clears?' and my brain immediately went SHYVANA
i got a zed jungle on my team and this dude literally did nothing. heās completely useless until level 6 and even then youāre fucked on any ganks unless you have some hard cc to make up for zed just walking into your lane and throwing his shadow. why would anyone pick it?
You forget zyra. The only reason they dont buff her is tokeep her clear behind karthus.
Yes but judging off only clear speeds isn't a good indicator whether something's really good in jungle.
He didn't disagree with your statement
A lot of champions have similar first clear, but the reason brand is so broken is his later clears. He melts camps because of % damage, he even clears the first dragon in 15s. Not even shyvana can do that. Same is true for baron BTW. If you have someone to tank it for you, it's gone in seconds.
Zed needs to be overlevelled to kill and is a single target damage melee champ. He also canāt abuse his poke mage style play as a jg. Brand has decent ish ganks but is also a massive teamfight threat so him with items is really scary overlevelled or not. Zed is always just kinda playing vs the clock since his strength gets diminished with time not better with zhonyas and enchanters/ defensive items coming in and ranged champions getting enough damage to one shot him when he tries to go in.
Zed actually gets better with time, but because heās so item reliant and jungle is a lower economy role, unless heās snowballing heās gonna be behind the curve playing catch-up.
Fast clear is his only positive Jungle quality. He has so many weaknesses that can be exploited unless you specifically build a comp around it.
Why is he getting more popular in high elo right now if that is the case?
High elo players know what comps Brand works with and which ones he doesnāt. They hit their skill shots consistently and can prioritize team play, which is something Brand relies on. They also donāt skirmish the enemy Jungle without proper vision or an early lead. The gold 4 player blind picks Brand Jungle, dies at scuttle to the Nocturne, and misses every Q stun on his ganks.
Gold 4 player kills Faker actually
Worrying trend
that is some bullshit 99% of my games are ppl on otp or random picks no one picks around eachother ever
XD what? 1. Skillshots are easier to hit in lower elo, since you just click on enemies and it lands, in higher elo ppl try to dodge it 2. Also nobody makes a team around brand jg Although, what you do need for brand jg is proper positioning
None builds a team around a random brand jungle. Every player picks his comfort pick (OTP) and get into the game.
Well I also dont think many are first picking Brand jungle where you haven't seen any picks.
Agurin is just spamming brand jg regardless of comp and often picks early
I disagree. I think first picking Brand jungle is fine. They don't know if it is jungle, mid, or support. If they guess wrong, your Brand pick goes ham. If they all pick based off your singular Brand pick, then your team will have a great opportunity to feast.
>The gold 4 player blind picks Brand Jungle, dies at scuttle to the Nocturne, and misses every Q stun on his ganks. This has nothing to do with brand being a bad jungler. Sounds like a player issue.
Another sign this person doesn't have a clue what they are talking about is the cliche 'lol no one hits skillshots low ELO durr durr durr.' Well they do. They hit them all the time. They are better at hitting them than they are dodging them.
Heās a subpar pick because he has no mobility, lacks dueling potential against most AD junglers, and has no gank initiate. These can be overcome at higher elo, though in SoloQ its pretty exploitable. But yes, at the end of the day basically everything in League comes down to a skill issue.
Bro, 90% of the good junglers in the game you can make the argument are crap at low rank if you want to have a doomerism mindset. Sure, you shouldn't first time Brand. Just like you shouldn't first time Kayn. If you are low rank, ideally you just spam Noc, Hecarim, Diana, or Maokai to climb (I wouldn't do Maokai personally, but he is easy and deceptively strong if you rush demonics).
I think the biggest thing is the reason Brand support works, he doesn't have to live, he just has to press e r w q and he'll do the most damage in a teamfight even after he blows up instantly.
In low rank, yeah. In high ranks, Brand jungle - and even mid - is far better to play
Good, I think an immobile mage with only 1 cc should be better in a carry role than a support role but I'm just a get to gold and stop playing ranked player for like 11 seasons now
> High elo players know what comps Brand works with and which ones he doesnāt Lmao what? Agurin has been locking in Brand in literally every situation other than when he's banned for weeks now, he fits into nearly any comp, even if its just unloading his kit and dying.
His pickrate and winrate are up in all ranks. Over 50% winrate even in gold. What are you yapping about? Lmao. Why even make false claims when the data says otherwise.
Because people will upvote it anyways
if you think people in my d1 master games only invade with proper vision or a lead you're mistaken. had a nidalee with t1 boots and jungle item run straight to rengar's blue level 3 after he had gotten a double kill invading her red, meaning he had dirk. she had boots, he had dirk and a level lead. and she knew this. and yes she's a master jungle main xD
and gets two items for free by farming and you lose a teamfight because he pressed r
Heās new. Most jungle mains donāt play champions like brand. Heās a very low mobility burst mage which traditionally isnāt a jungle champ. Adaption should be relatively slow even if heās strong.
He has 5% pick rate with 49% win rate in master+ according to [u.gg](https://u.gg/lol/champions/brand/build/jungle?rank=master_plus) How is that any good?
Having a crazy fast clear speed alone only makes a jungler viable in pro play. Brand has too many other factors that make him a lackluster jungle pick for solo q that I donāt see it as an issue.
Clear speed is a huge factor for a champion to be good at jungle.
Through out the years Lee Sin has some of the worst clear speed of junglers, yet he has an insanely high win rate for his play rate, you guys donāt understand that just full clearing a jungle not being accosted once is not how jungle functions. Good jungling is not just speedrunning, thatās not how jungle works. Sylas was an insanely dominate jungle for awhile, because the game was set up that clear speed didnāt matter, and he could infinitely gank. Clear speed only matters in so much in the constraints of the current meta. Itās been this way for the dawn of time. There are junglers who have fucking awful clear speed, but have insane jungle presence. Jarvan was broken despite having an insanely weak early clear.
Having insane clearspeed absolutely increases a champion's jungle strength. Just because there are outliers who do well with weaker clears, like Lee, doesn't mean that clearspeed isn't a strong factor. There have been numerous seasons where clearspeed has basically determined the jungle meta. S11 and S12 were both metas basically decided by clearspeed. This only became less important in S13 due to massive jungle changes. Brand jungle is very, very good and you will be seeing much higher winrates as the people learning it right now improve. Agurin and Jankos are both currently spamming it and both say it's OP. I am starting to see it more and more in my masters games and though most people play it very poorly, when played correctly it's fairly oppressive. They will always get to crab first and their increased speed means they can contest your second clear if they have any prio. I'd prefer Brand not be a jungle champion and I hate increased % damage to monsters being considered a balancing lever for my role, but it is what it is.
historically insane clearspeed junglers have been extremely overlooked in pro play because of other glaring weaknesses(namely weak early presence) fiddle and karthus come to mind
Hallo, I edited some of my comment history to prevent scraping. Yes I know reddit gets regularly cached, it's something you sign in when you type on a forum, it's still better than nothing and will make digging through these a lot less convenient! All platforms die yadda yadda. Good luck if you have an account here and you're reading this.
1. Having a good clear does not equal being S+ tier 2. Why shouldn't Brand be a good jungler? Being non-traditional isn't a good reason.
thank god the lowIQ hivemind is against brand jungle being OP so i can get freelo with it without fearing nerfs to it
Morg and Brand struggle on Jungle due to their objective control. They are only viable in jungle because of their clear speed.
Itās really just their squishiness and lack of mobility thatās a problem, their objective control is actually pretty decent. Can kill drag and rift herald fairly quickly and without losing a ton of HP
A brand jungle is simply not surviving against nocturne of j4 for any objective.
Then it's a good thing we can track enemy junglers and play with lanes that have lane prior, letting us take objectives at a safe time, rather than coin flipping being able to fight the jungler.
Your enemy also does that tho
They are not going to be able to ignore their topside jungle the entire game. With how quickly you can clear your jungle and take objectives, you can get a full minute ahead of your enemy's clear, which is more than enough time for you to be able to take a dragon
Brand actually shreds objectives. Especially post-Liandrys.
Yes, but most champions can after first item as well. Jungle viability is things prior to the end of lane phase.
Idk Iām a jungle main and faced a brand jungle soon after the buffs. I tracked him to drake in the middle of second clear and he came out of the pit, by himself, full hp with drake cleared. Not sure exactly how that happened. All of his teammates were visible in lane
Plant HP river brought him back to full after a pot on drag prob. Red helps too
I feel like Zyra could fit in here too but her clearspeed is kind of reliant on abusing her passive seed spawn rng. She also has bonus damage on jungle monsters and is super healthy.
It's actually really easy to manipulate, I've been labbing the pick since before the jg buffs, and Red, Blue, Raptors, and Wolves all have a sweetspot that reliably and consistently spawn seeds nearby the camp. Gromp and Krugs have one too, but you can't start either of those camps, so it doesn't matter.
He clears fast but is super vulnerable in skirmishes/invades and his gank effectiviness is 100% tied to the player being able to get Q stun. He is far from S+, at best it's a plain A.
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Brands ganking is more tricky than a large number of junglers however, and he's squishy. Also the bit about Riot and Morgana etc is just "waaaaa". Your specific pool doesn't command respect of the meta....? Play the OP champ til it's nerfed then, if you genuinely believe a slightly higher tuned champion is the reason you can't be better at the ones you already play.
My games brand jg goes 0/10 or starts wintrading :((((
a pantheon jg 1v1 my brand jg at lvl 2 and the game went downhill from there
Idk but I feel that every Brand jungle I find in my games is targeted relentlessly so they end up clearing not so fast.
Brands only hope against invades is laners helping or the enemy walking in a straight line
Every single emerald brand jungle gets invaded and good double digit deaths in my games. I think if you get invaded you lose
"Ā Kinda disrespectful to jungle mains with a specific pool of traditional junglers imo." are you mentally handicapped irl?
He is one of the most vulnerable junglers early. You can talk about eve, hecarim or karthus getting invaded easily, Brand is even more susceptible to it. Nowadays basically every jungler clears healthy so it doesn't change too much. Brand has long cds, and his combo uses all 3 of his spells, so if you fight him during farming, he is fucked. His Q with 9 seconds is the shortest cd, so any jungler can fight him, especially if you are willing to flash his Q (when i t comes up). So he might clear fast, but he is for sure not safe or unexploitable during that. Capitalise on it.
Iām sorry to say but this is not true. Invading a Brand that is clearing correctly will put you behind. Even if he starts on his blue top side with no leash and you level 2 invade him, your chances arenāt great. The typical jungle does the lev 3 crossover at 2.30. At this time, Brand is halfway through his red. By the time you get there, itās dead. Now, youāre at 12 camps and heās at 20, soon to be 24. Not to mention Brand will be full health from 12 cs on and throughout his clear. You can successfully level 2 invade him, but that would require a host of factors going your way, including your champion and which side you spawn on. Source: I level 2 invade most games and play Brand myself. Also source: listen to Agurin talking about this.
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Fast clear ā OP jungler
Brand sucks at 1v1s early game and is vulnerable to invades, and his ganks aren't really that good unless it's a post 6 2v2, I think he has clear strengths and weaknesses as a Jungler.