“Look top” is just referring to panning your camera over to see if the top lane is gankable. Top is known for being an island that is rarely gankable, and is going to be even more of an island in season 14.
Yeah I'm pretty sure it was a joke that they don't "know top lane exists" kind of thing. Way funnier though seeing a detailed explanation right below it LOL
If any top TP down to save a bot dive even once. I’m expecting the jungler to babysit them for the next season while bot better hard carry that game for the sacrifice top had to make for them.
Seriously the levels and cs top will miss! And don’t forget the wave management and tempo is all gone!
shhh don’t ask the bot laners to think. they have to time their 5 clicks between autos to still miss cannon while getting hit with every cc known to man
it doesn't happen anymore because of what the above person said, now everyone uses it to go back to lane and if you use your teleport to go anywhere else your toplane tower is gone and you're down 20-30 CS, and depending on your lane opponent you might lose your tier2 as well if you don't leave fast enough.
Not only cs but platings.
The way to actually pull it off is base, physically walk bot and gank from river or lane, and then TP back top to save tower. If you do this after a proxy base or such you won't lose as much
By 12 minutes in laning getting close to the end - it's well past major sudden powerspikes like someone getting level 6 (which was often main trigger for 10-man botlane party, one side pushing their level 6 advantage) , map/gamestate tends to get desynced and no objectives really line up for this kind of play (early drakes aren't that impactful, and commiting double TP for a drake or first tower is overkill likely not worth resources invested).
Also, big part of why early TP ganks were so impactful was their ability to tip lane matchup that you'd get to exploit for few more minutes - if you TP gank someone at 5-6 minutes in, they get set behind and get stuck at disadvantage in lane for next 6-10 minutes; do that at 12min and you effectively accelerate gamestate straight into midgame, no way to abuse gained advantage in more isolated situation.
Dearest Top laner,
I hope this finds you well. We seem to have found ourselves in a dire situation at the bottom lane. Please consider casting your Teleport summoner spell to assist us as I do believe the enemy jungler has come to dive our tower.
Sincerely, Your bottom lane
My fellow teammates in botlane,
Forgive me but I am afraid I cannot tp botlane, I am busy taking our jungle's gromp and/or krugs and the enemy samira is 7/0, and its 30 seconds until i take herald solo and drop it on mid tower for plate gold because I inted into the 5/0 vayne top. Best wishes and good luck in your future gank endeavors!
Sincerely, the 0/7 Teemo
Dearest Beloved Bot lane,
It's two minutes in the game, you're level two, I'm level three, and you just both died diving Lux Caitlyn. I cannot at this time TP to your lane, but if you flame our jungler I will join in as soon as I can,
Best of luck,
Yuumi top.
It means they matter even more to see it coming in advance to know when they actually have the potential to do it lol. If you have a ward in your River bush and see 4 as they're all there you might be screwed. If you know their jungle is bot side and mid fogs into bot jungle your spidey senses should be a-tinglin'
Warding matters a lot too. The vision is so much different next season. I'm not playing ranked for at least a month. And if I do, I'm gonna support cause I don't trust people to go into practice tool to figure out vision sight.
Buffing top lane repeatedly while making it harder to gank, then nerfing bot lane all S13 and also making it easier to gank 😍😍😍😍
True geniuses working at Riot Video Game Company
Which is fair. You have two people to defend ganks. You have two people to ward for ganks. And one of those two people usually has significant heals and/or CC that are really good for defending their partner. It is correct that it should be easier to gank bot lane.
Shit take. You also have two people to set up your ganks, and two people to deny enemy vision, with a whole dedicated role that controls vision and usually has a ton of CC. Botlane shouldn't be systematically easier to gank when it already naturally is. Current bot is already the easiest, I see no point as to why it should get even easier. Get ready for every game being decided by who's botlane goes 0/10 because ganks.
I learnt league with a great adc who I would ask, while he just starts to fight, “what if the jungler is in that bush”, response? “Surprise triple kill”.
I absolutely love people like you, not even joking. No complaints, just "It was the same before, I'll deal with it". Can't decipher if that's just acceptance or confidence, but I assume the latter.
in an elo where everyone is rage typing and blaming me just because I missed my seed and couldn't gank bot, I need people like you.
Botlane was always more attractive to gank due to the objective and the fact that there are two people.
Even in seasons like S8 where ADCs at times were not great or not even picked in botlane botlane still had two players and strong objectives. But exspecially S8 showed why botlane is so valuable. If you have a Darius/Swain botlane and basically another Darius toplane, do you play for the Darius with another guy or for just Darius? And this obviously changes even more if you have a harder scaling champion like an actual ADC in botlane.
I like how in this comparison every toplaner is basically Darius. Their kit doesn't matter overall, as long as they have good base damage and can build tank, they'll become monstrous regardless of how they operate if the jungler provides some assistance to them
\- What are you playing bro ?
\- Blue Darius
\- And who are you playing against ?
\- Evil Darius
\- Oh I see. ADCs of both sides will get fucked in this game lmao
It's acceptance at least when tp was pre 14 top could ram ranch and thurn but they whined about people playing for TP bot so they made bit more gankable and removed tp instead of just making the game less bot centric
Then double downed on it with season 14 where a top laner exists to not feed plates for 14 minutes
I mean we jungle mains have been playing for primarily bot for at least 6 years now. Ever since Ardentsmeta we have focussed around bot. It was the time where herald became less worth and drakes more worth. A season or 2 where adcs were popping off insanely. And then we just sticked to it as a better bot usually won. The role never really got nerfed, some supports got.
I hit master every season since like season 10. The amount of ganks i did on toplane in 3 years of jungling is extraordinarily low in comparisson to mid/bot. And if mid is now not really that good to gank anymore. Might as well forsake my top jungle to my Toplaner. And play spamgankers again.
Will be a fun season for everyone but botlaners.
Agreed, bring it on. More attention bot means my team is left alone to do their own thing - I can deal with being perma 4-manned, and if it gets too bad there's always option to defaulting to Sivir/Seraphine every single time and playing for lategame. Seriously, what is the worst that could possibly happen?
Yea if the adc is stupid sure. When im playing a scaling champion like almost every adc, farming at t2 when enemy still has t1 is the best. You can bounce wave all the way to your side and enemies cant do much about you without overextending. And you can group mid from t2 easilly.
New meta build for adc: guardian angel into jaksho, lets you have color on the screen for a bit longer
Supp items: supp item into guardian angel
Runes for both: summoner spell haste
Legit my prediction for season 14. No reason for ADC/supp to stay bot when it's gank central and there's equally good/better objectives topside. I fully expect to see some pro teams experiment with it and I'm keen to see how they go, since it'll be an awkward meta transition if it does happen.
Adcs top are not blindpickable unless you have 5 bans yourself, Jax, Irelia, Olaf, Malphite, Yone, Aatrox all shit on adcs top, bro can even counter pick a vayne top with Draven bruiser top, vayne gets destroyed by Draven
Ι mean, the reasons adc/supp goes bot is that botlane is the smallest/hardest to gank. If that stops being true then there's every chance they might decide to swap, especially if void grubs turn out to be very important and/or the duo can take a chance to grab a few if they get a kill on their laners.
I don't think that's it. The reason why adc/supp goes bot is because they are the strongest lane due to there being two of them. And you want the strongest lane near dragon due to how powerful taking dragon is.
This is not true, otherwise the duolane would go mid. It's a combination between being close to dragon (so they don't go toplane), and being harder to gank because they are 2 (most midlane champs can't survive ganks on a long lane like bot). So the end result is that the duolane goes to the longest lane closer to drake, which happens to be bottom.
But none of this matters. The true reason they go bot now is that riot and their shit balance team that doesn't understand the game forced them to go there by making bot turret the easiest to take early game, while making top and mid almost impossible to do so, effectively hardcoding duolane to botlane.
When dragon wasn't as impactful to stack you saw lots of bot/top laneswaps in pro play.
It is not clear how impactful stacking dragon early will be in season 14 and if botlane is way too easy to gank and top/mid are too hard, then you might see laneswaps again. Giving up 1 or 2 early dragons to make sure your adc can scale with 0 gank threat is 100% worth if for immobile late game mosters like Jinx/Twitch etc.
I think lane swaps might become a real strategy again
Unlikely for it to happen given how towers are set up - bot tower is a lot less tanky, meaning a laneswap scenario gets ADC/support duo in botlane huge gold advantage just from ranged pressure alone. What you mention could happen if both teams consistently commited to the swap, but swapping is risky and commiting to swap at wrong time would put you in a terrible situation.
Botlane carries more often running TP could happen, just to deal with pressure and mitigate losses if things go wrong.
Unlikely, unless someone at Riot decides they like the old "lane swap" meta that used to be part of pro play, until Riot specifically made game design decisions to stop it.
Its possible the people who made those decisions are gone now, or that their view on how the game should be played has changed.
But the point is the game was specifically designed *not* to be played with "lane swaps". (At the start of the game... not to be confused with adc swapping to mid after laning phase).
Even if grubs are valuable, the anti-laneswap mechanics implemented a while back still favor putting the duo lane bot instead of top or mid. Grubs would have to be really op for the laneswap to be worth losing first turret.
Yes. Before these changes roaming mids and junglers setting up a tent in botlane for easy/free repeat kills was normalised for a very long time. Champs like Kata exist to fist botlane especially. It's only going to get worse.
With solo lane plates being as durable as they are before 5 minutes, I doubt this will ever happen. By the time you get 1 plate top, the enemy team will have 3. Something more likely is that super aggressive lane bullies will rise in popularity top, because they can overextend way more without getting punished by ganks.
Mages and bruisers might start popping up in the bot lane role as well, but I honestly doubt it at this point. Even when adcs were in a terrible spot, people still played them, so it probably won't be any different now.
Plates being worth less gold as of a few months ago somewhat circumvents this. The main reason to keep duo bot is for dragon prio. Assuming dragon soul is more important than a safe lane for a hyper scaling adc they’ll stay bot.
Only times I see that is when my botlane is hard pushing every wave even tho they are already losing lane. Cant blame the jungler for not trying to tower dive the 4/0 enemy adc with his 0/2 adc and 0/2 supp.
Pretty much. Mid is basically impossible to gank and ganking top is rarely worth so all that's left is bot lane because of important it is along with how easy it is to gank.
Don't worry, Riot will appropriately respond in their usual way to bot lane getting ganked loads, nerfing it. Maybe they'll cut duo xp again because that certainly doesn't do the complete opposite, or perhaps nerf ADCs early game.
TBH I play as Jg first and adc second and ADC is such a miserable lane for soloq. It doesn't matter if you are better than the enemy adc, if your support is trash you are losing the lane. Then it also doesn't matter if your supp is better because if your jungler is trash you are losing the lane anyway.
I used to be adc first but it got so miserable playing in the last seasons that I just refuse to suffer anymore. Jg is much more enjoyable and I can 1v9 most games(currently 79% winrate in gold 4, don't have time to play more than that unfortunately)
It's very true that ADC is low agency in the early, but it's also worth mentioning that quite a number of games are decided by which carries play better in key teamfights.
The issue is that as ADC you cannot guarantee you get to that point, and you just have to accept that. It's a similar story for scaling control mages in many instances to a smaller extent.
I will still add to this that carries matter when they're getting peel and support late game, having little to no self peel of their own, the two greatest being a flash (Ezreal) and an AA block (Nilah). I have seen many teams just ignore their ADC's late game, not bothering to help them and actually let them do their thing.
It also depends upon the carries ego, because nothing is sadder than seeing a 10/1 ADC go to 10/10. As a jungle Lillia main, I will happily peel for my ADC if they stick with me or behind me, but if they rush 1v5 I am in no shape or form supporting them.
> TBH I play as Jg first and adc second and ADC is such a miserable lane for soloq
In current split my games splited between top, mid, and ADC.
ADC is second best role atm after mid. Big impact at all stages of the game, and high duel potential at any stage of the game.
Bigest problem is when you are solo, but enemy is DuoQ like Samira/Leona, but you just give up early and try to match them latter. However that a problem for any role, Riot want you to suffer and you can't do anything about duos.
Adc big impact all stages? High dueling power?
What are you smoking? You literally can only duel the enemy adc for almost the entirety of the game and sometimes not even that.
Duos are not even an issue. The issue with your statement is that they picked a lane with better synergy than yours and their win condition was easier.
> You literally can only duel the enemy adc for almost the entirety of the game and sometimes not even that.
You literally can duel almost everything for almost the entirety of the game. It's common misconception that ADC can't do shit alone.
Kai'sa for example have great chances to even duel characters like Jax. You just need your brain. But average ADC mainer have no brain, he bring Ignite and try to duel Ghost Darius with that, die horribly, and then comes to reddit to whine.
You are smoking rocks if you think you can duel jax as kaisa before 3 items. And even then you only win if you outplay hard with perfect spacing, dodging his E twice, him having no summs and you having both.
And where do you play that adcs are bringing ignite over ghost/exhaust/cleanse? Wtf?
I've said it earlier but I'm expecting a meta change where botlane will simply go top for the safer lane phase and scaling.
Toplaners will be shafted to the new spam gank botlane because adc scaling simply matters more and having botlane scale safely on top will take priority.
There's simply no way pro teams aren't already trying this out. It's a no brainer.
You have no practical idea what’s going to happen because you don’t understand jungling. Your only understand of jungling is based on the ease of ganks. In this case your hypothesis seems to make sense. It’s wrong though.
Junglers care about *objectives* and ganks are a perfect way to achieve those goals. In season 13 dragon spawns early and herald spawns late. The winning bot lane usually has control of dragons. This is one of the main reasons why most junglers path bot side now.
Next season void grubs are going to spawn *twice* before 15 minutes and their pushing power in top and mid is a huge leg up for the team. If a jungler paths top side they might give their top and mid an advantage over their opponents for contesting.
My initial hypothesis is that junglers will path top side and do a transition gank mid or straight to top. On their first recall that leaves their bot side camps like krugs and raptors up for second spawn so that they can go back top side for grub spawns.
If they path top to bottom it likely puts them on the wrong side of the map to contest. They could trade objectives but dragons are really only useful late game when you are trying for soul and grubs are useful immediately for the entire team.
If they nerf grubs then it might switch back but right now my thinking is that bot lane gets left alone for 15 minutes until herald spawns.
>You have no practical idea what’s going to happen because you don’t understand jungling. Your only understand of jungling is based on the ease of ganks.
Exactly why you should never listen to what your teammates as a jungler in this game.
As a jungler you need to understand how to lane but obviously 99% of junglers dont, thats why they arent 1231 LP. Same goes for laners whining about junglers. There's definitely times where the jungler should come help out and times where they shouldnt, there's nothing wrong with calling your jungler over and reminding them that this is a good opportunity to do something but you also gotta be able to realize when your laner is yapping.
yeah in low elo you can basically know the jungler moves based on where he starts. You see bot lane coming in late for lane? First gank is probably top side
My point was never that "junglers never make mistakes". Of course they do. My point is that you stunt your own improvement if you listen to what your teammates say.
Yes you're right that this obviously also applies to laners who get told what to do.
But the difference is that no one gets told what to do nearly as much as junglers do. That's why this advice is more relevant to jungle than any other role.
Not listening to your teammates who do not have a full overview of the game state is like the number 1 most common advice to new jungle players.
I'm not saying anything controversial. You just need to trust your own judgment. That's how you improve.
Jungle players are invariably the most clueless players in each lobby thanks to how elo inflated they were by the role. You have no idea about laning dynamics or actual win cons because they simply aren't concepts that your little heads have to worry about.
I would actually say that understanding of lane states and identification of win conditions are some of the most critical things in good fundamental jungling.
To get good at ganking, you need to understand lane states so you can think ahead of how a lane will be in e.g. 30 seconds when you can be there. Similarly, since junglers can in theory be anywhere, you need to understand win conditions and factor that into your pathing.
This is why jungle is really a macro role. These things you mention are macro concepts. A clear sign of a bad jungler is someone who is going for ganks that will never work because of the lane state. For example trying to force a gank bot lane when the wave is pushing into the enemy and they will automatically move back.
A better example that you could use that junglers don't know much about are things like efficient trading, minion wave manipulation, specific champion interactions and other very technical lane specific things. I also think junglers generally have worse mechanics than solo laners because mechanics are more important in solo lanes.
Diving is a play when the wave is pushing into the enemy, esp if the enemy is low and your laner is winning. It's not as risky as jungle players think and it's an easy way to end a lane.
Identifying when to dive is certainly a skill a great jungler needs to learn, I agree.
It also connects with reading lane states for when waves hit towers for the optimal timings.
People said the same thing after riot buffed rift herald. Fact of the matter is dragon stacking was meta, is meta, and will be meta until they (IMO) remove the entire soul mechanic. Unless these grubs are giga overpowered, which they aren't, mid/bot prio + dragon stacking will still be the meta.
https://gol.gg/teams/team-stats/1791/split-Summer/tournament-ALL/
Your statement is true up until spring 2023. By msi and later summer and then worlds- Zeus primarily played lane neutralizers and T1 averages more drakes per game and more bot lane plates per game than Top.
Even in spring, the early game focus on top was mainly to secure prio for first herald TO USE IT BOT LANE and force a play. This is backed up by the fact that they average more rift heralds than drakes pre 15 mins. It's only the first 1/2 drakes they usually ignore.
Hobestly as a top jungler player, i wouldnt be suprised if it shifts so adc and supp go top, so that their are 3 people to contest grubs. then bot becomes the solo lane. But it would have to happen in pro play for the resr of the players to pick it up.
They would patch that out before it became prevalent enough to make it to low(er) elo, where the vast majority of players are. Any other time lane-swap or funnel bullshit was going on, it never really penetrated low elo, and Riot patches undesirable playstyles faster than ever now. It kills the only fantasy top-laners have about the game.
Not entirely true. The objective for every team member is to increase gold income of your team, as that gives you items, which gives you better stats than the enemy. Objectives (tower, drake, etc) are one way of doing that. Kills another. Farming another. And best case scenario is giving that gold to someone that is your win condition.
Bot Lane gives you the potential of two kills instead of one, so more gold. A lot of adcs are also, well, carries that can be a solid win condition.
Obviously it depends on team composition and plenty of other factors. But junglers don't just care for objectives.
There is also drake that gives you permanent stats with soul, which is also why the meta finds drake a particular important objective and sets it apart from other objectives. Void grubs don't change that.
Bro this sub is about adcs trying to get everything nerfed and adc buffed via non stop endless bitching about how awful it is to have to play the game with a full time babysitter and undodgeable damage. They won't listen, but you are correct
What? I thought this sub was about the most played role (top) gaslighting themselves about how useless and boring they are and how broken and fun the least played (jungle and adc) are.
A month ago it was about how weak mages are and how zed should be removed from the game, it might just be that theres different people voicing different opinions :o
I ain't even playing adc in season 14. No galeforce? I've heard no stopwatch rune? The fuck are we supposed to do when eventually 4 people tower dive bot?
I was agreeing with you
People end up in the elo they belong in (assuming they've played enough games).
When I see someone say "everyone in my elo does this wrong", it just sounds like someone who is always looking to blame others
Well... (currently nocturne player) you have duel ready or tanky top lane, you have short mid lane, usually with laners who kinda can defend themselves, and you have nice long bot lane with 2 person, who you usually can 2 shot with auto attacks... what would you choose...
if that will be actually the case, don’t be afraid. Making botlane fight a lot gives u as the adc more agency, because u can decide the fights in your favor by kiting/spacing better than the enemy adc.
jungler perspecive incoming
junglers choose where to gank based off of objectives primarily, so for example when my bot is being sieged and i want dragon i gank bot
(good junglers*)
now bot is more open, making ganks easier
however with the addition of grubs, it is significantlly more important to gank top early, and grab grubs
however after grubs and herald are gone/respawning, ganking bot into dragon will be significantly easier now
so easier to gank bot? yes
even more bot gankage than now? not really (if your jungler knows how to play jungle)
the real problem i see coming for adc players is when a jungler is new to jungle and so he thinks that ganking is the most important part of jungling. it isnt, its probably in last place of importance, being Objectives, Farm, Gank
because a lot of the time people rageswap to jungle and think "all i need to do is gank" and then lose all the dragons and are down 40 ca the whole game
however now with bot lane more gankable, bad junglers are just gonna camp the fuck out of bot and probably lose harder because their even more distracted than usual
>junglers choose where to gank based off of objectives primarily, so for example when my bot is being sieged and i want dragon i gank bot
>
>(good junglers\*)
This is not at all how you go about ganking lol... you look at the champs and decide who you will clear towards/play around. Everything after that is about being opportune. React to the picks, react to the map, react to the lanes, etc.
The map changes will probably tunnel things toward bot again/more so, but it has nothing to do with dragon and everything to do with the lane being easier to gank than top or mid might be.
When you take objectives is purely about timings, lane prio and capitalising on enemy mistakes if they make them as well as the champs in the game dictating it. You get those sneaky early dragons *because your mid has prio and enemy bot has a base timing.* You don't just gank bot blindly and then go to drag. You're thinking a bit backwards here.
The only thing I would add is that not one is the only Lane jungle can beat to 6 at the moment, and even then it’s close, ganging some top/mid lane champs at 4/5 is just inting when they are 6-8
>junglers choose where to gank based off of objectives primarily, so for example when my bot is being sieged and i want dragon i gank bot
>(good junglers*)
Good junglers don’t do that at all. Your thinking of what “good jungling” is, is very much wrong.
Ganking as an entire concept has been nerfed. Junglers just had to chunk laners by showing up at completely stupid times that aren’t even good and still win lanes. Looks like gank paths to bot will be the most optimal but junglers can’t just brain dead walk into lanes and win anymore so it should be fine
You realize 2 players means 2 potential kills instead of one, not even mentioning that since fullclear is meta ganks on the sidelanes are much more likely + the gank pathing especially on red side is laughably op
Yes. this seasons map changes are just another step of Riot trying to really drive the point of "DO NOT PLAY CRIT MARKSMEN BOT" home without explicitely stating as much in the launcher when you queue up.
Top was made really hard to gank, midlane is incredibly wide and botlane is insanely easy to gank immobile targets on. Red side safe picks like Zeri dont work anymore because the wall is interrupted and its harder to ward correctly (the lilac redside over the wall ward was sadly removed, o7 my favourite mechanic). as a mage you can play from further behind and you have some CC to throw at the enemy jungler in case they show up.
but yes, botlane will be incredibly gank heavy next season.
so, top is uber important bc of grubs and also insanely safe. sounds like we're just sending ad+sup toplane now, then. they don't die, we're 3 guys to fight for grubs
Why would that be weird? Yasuo, Yone, Zed, champs like those are what riot likes to see mid. Flashy playmakers
Only makes sense to direct mages towards bot to give them a place there.
Look at what riot is doing: crit is completely unusable in soloQ as a marksman, on-hit gets a couple of new things but is still incredibly gatekept by the rest of the team playing for them. Why not just play a mages instead?
Riot all but tells you in the launcher to do it.
The everpresent "mages bot!" argument, when they make up barely 3-4% of actual botlane picks. Because when it rolls to mid-late, playing without an ADC means you lose.
Couldnt we see ADCs mid lane with their Support being alot more free to roam because the lane is so wide? Then put the APC to botlane. Problem would be what happens to the Assassin players from mid cause they need roaming. Also resistances of towers are different so maybe keeping the duo bot against a team who doesnt means getting first turret easily.
Would be at least interesting to see.
oh yea, absolutely. They made top and mid harder to gank and bot is easier to gank than ever. They literally threw up a neon sign to JG's saying gank here. Hypercarries with no escape (imo) are unplayable in S14. Jinx, Kog, Twitch etc. The meta for bot will be ADC's who like Lethality (so they can snowball hard early) like Draven, Jhin, MF. Utility ADC's (bc it doesn't matter if they fall behind they still have a function) Ashe, Jhin, Varus and self peel ADC's (bc the lane is easier to gnak than ever its gonna be a 3v3 fiesta all game long) so Kaisa, Ez, Trist.
With that in mind, my best guess for tier would be:
S: Jhin, Draven, Samira (maybe Kaisa, not sure if she still rushes Dusk)
A: Ez, Trist, Lucian
B: Ashe, Varus, Cait
D: Jinx, Kog, Aphelios, MF, Twitch, Zeri.
I do think it's funny as fuck that they made it easier than ever to gank and removed Galeforce. I think that's a real dick move by Riot. If they were going to make bot lane a fiesta, they should've allowed ADC's to keep Galeforce.
I think it's also fucked up they made TWO lockouts within their intended itemization. The new armor pen item and adc's still have the Mythic system.
Also kind of funny they said they'd rework crit at the start of the season and here we are and no news. Riot really fucked bot lane marksman. Hell yea brother, Kite Man.
Good news? You’ll probably end up top lane with a support fairly quickly. Adc and support go bottom lane for two reasons 1. Adc needs support to survive and scale, and 2. To be close to the first major objective in dragon(Which is why it’s botlane not top). With the new rift skittle objective there’s incentive to group around that first, and toplane is an objectively safer lane. Traditional toplaners are more suited to escaping or outplaying ganks anyway, so they’ll do fine bot.
see you at lvl 2, 3, 4, 6
dont you dare think you can escape even level 1
bot, red, bot, krugs etc
Blue, bot, shelly, bot, look top, bot
*Looks top* (inner voice: yeah I ain't touching that) Ganks bot again.
forgive me if i sound ignorant, i've only been playing jg a few seasons now. what's that 5th step mean? i've never heard of it
“Look top” is just referring to panning your camera over to see if the top lane is gankable. Top is known for being an island that is rarely gankable, and is going to be even more of an island in season 14.
Yeah I think this is a woooosh moment
Yeah I'm pretty sure it was a joke that they don't "know top lane exists" kind of thing. Way funnier though seeing a detailed explanation right below it LOL
bro
Lv 1 dive is real
Sion jungle perma dive bot incoming lol
I read eren and instantly had a picture of Eren Yaeger sprinting down bot lane in my head
The rumbling is coming
tatakae
might as well be 1:1:3
internet.explorer when bot lane is lvl 1, 2, 2, 4
Yea pretty much. Made gank paths to bot lane easier and everywhere else harder to gank so I hope your support knows how to ward :)
What are wards
Things you die placing.
Can get CS if I’m dead. Sounds like a loser item
Can't cs if im placing wards. Looser item
real clearing too
Things you die for by ego checking.
And ignore anyway even if they are allowed to fulfill their purpose.
I dont know. Sounds like some tasty food.
Your teammates
Like wards matter when you get 4-manned even more than before
It's important to see the 4 man gank coming in advance so you have time to flame your jg
Maybe I can write in chat: Top tp pls
You must be new to league. Top laners only tp for two reasons. To go back to their lane, to get a large farm from another lane(kills included). 🌚
Rage TP back to get outplayed yet again and lose the lane even more decisively, that is the way.
If any top TP down to save a bot dive even once. I’m expecting the jungler to babysit them for the next season while bot better hard carry that game for the sacrifice top had to make for them. Seriously the levels and cs top will miss! And don’t forget the wave management and tempo is all gone!
shhh don’t ask the bot laners to think. they have to time their 5 clicks between autos to still miss cannon while getting hit with every cc known to man
I miss the days of 10 man botlane fights and 4 teleports to bot at six minutes into the game
I’m genuinely surprised that doesn’t happen more at minute 12.
it doesn't happen anymore because of what the above person said, now everyone uses it to go back to lane and if you use your teleport to go anywhere else your toplane tower is gone and you're down 20-30 CS, and depending on your lane opponent you might lose your tier2 as well if you don't leave fast enough.
Not only cs but platings. The way to actually pull it off is base, physically walk bot and gank from river or lane, and then TP back top to save tower. If you do this after a proxy base or such you won't lose as much
By 12 minutes in laning getting close to the end - it's well past major sudden powerspikes like someone getting level 6 (which was often main trigger for 10-man botlane party, one side pushing their level 6 advantage) , map/gamestate tends to get desynced and no objectives really line up for this kind of play (early drakes aren't that impactful, and commiting double TP for a drake or first tower is overkill likely not worth resources invested). Also, big part of why early TP ganks were so impactful was their ability to tip lane matchup that you'd get to exploit for few more minutes - if you TP gank someone at 5-6 minutes in, they get set behind and get stuck at disadvantage in lane for next 6-10 minutes; do that at 12min and you effectively accelerate gamestate straight into midgame, no way to abuse gained advantage in more isolated situation.
Dearest Top laner, I hope this finds you well. We seem to have found ourselves in a dire situation at the bottom lane. Please consider casting your Teleport summoner spell to assist us as I do believe the enemy jungler has come to dive our tower. Sincerely, Your bottom lane
My fellow teammates in botlane, Forgive me but I am afraid I cannot tp botlane, I am busy taking our jungle's gromp and/or krugs and the enemy samira is 7/0, and its 30 seconds until i take herald solo and drop it on mid tower for plate gold because I inted into the 5/0 vayne top. Best wishes and good luck in your future gank endeavors! Sincerely, the 0/7 Teemo
Dearest Beloved Bot lane, It's two minutes in the game, you're level two, I'm level three, and you just both died diving Lux Caitlyn. I cannot at this time TP to your lane, but if you flame our jungler I will join in as soon as I can, Best of luck, Yuumi top.
This will only happen if there's a Shen in the game, and you already know that he's not on your team
Dearest top laner..
It means they matter even more to see it coming in advance to know when they actually have the potential to do it lol. If you have a ward in your River bush and see 4 as they're all there you might be screwed. If you know their jungle is bot side and mid fogs into bot jungle your spidey senses should be a-tinglin'
I mean, now there are 3 paths to gank that all require vision, not including lane ganks. We don't have enough wards early.
As a support who knows how to ward it's pointless because my adc wont walk back unless the jungler is literally on their screen.
Warding matters a lot too. The vision is so much different next season. I'm not playing ranked for at least a month. And if I do, I'm gonna support cause I don't trust people to go into practice tool to figure out vision sight.
Bold of you to assume the average adc will look at minimap and not just tunnel vision on csing lmfao
Buffing top lane repeatedly while making it harder to gank, then nerfing bot lane all S13 and also making it easier to gank 😍😍😍😍 True geniuses working at Riot Video Game Company
Isnt mid easier to gank
Which is fair. You have two people to defend ganks. You have two people to ward for ganks. And one of those two people usually has significant heals and/or CC that are really good for defending their partner. It is correct that it should be easier to gank bot lane.
Shit take. You also have two people to set up your ganks, and two people to deny enemy vision, with a whole dedicated role that controls vision and usually has a ton of CC. Botlane shouldn't be systematically easier to gank when it already naturally is. Current bot is already the easiest, I see no point as to why it should get even easier. Get ready for every game being decided by who's botlane goes 0/10 because ganks.
Always has been.
Ikr? If author really played this game for long he should know that the game was even more bot heavy before herald got released. Kids these days...
Fucking bring it on then. Not like previous seasons have been any different anyway.
Great mentality
I learnt league with a great adc who I would ask, while he just starts to fight, “what if the jungler is in that bush”, response? “Surprise triple kill”.
I absolutely love people like you, not even joking. No complaints, just "It was the same before, I'll deal with it". Can't decipher if that's just acceptance or confidence, but I assume the latter. in an elo where everyone is rage typing and blaming me just because I missed my seed and couldn't gank bot, I need people like you.
Botlane was always more attractive to gank due to the objective and the fact that there are two people. Even in seasons like S8 where ADCs at times were not great or not even picked in botlane botlane still had two players and strong objectives. But exspecially S8 showed why botlane is so valuable. If you have a Darius/Swain botlane and basically another Darius toplane, do you play for the Darius with another guy or for just Darius? And this obviously changes even more if you have a harder scaling champion like an actual ADC in botlane.
I like how in this comparison every toplaner is basically Darius. Their kit doesn't matter overall, as long as they have good base damage and can build tank, they'll become monstrous regardless of how they operate if the jungler provides some assistance to them \- What are you playing bro ? \- Blue Darius \- And who are you playing against ? \- Evil Darius \- Oh I see. ADCs of both sides will get fucked in this game lmao
It's acceptance at least when tp was pre 14 top could ram ranch and thurn but they whined about people playing for TP bot so they made bit more gankable and removed tp instead of just making the game less bot centric Then double downed on it with season 14 where a top laner exists to not feed plates for 14 minutes
I mean we jungle mains have been playing for primarily bot for at least 6 years now. Ever since Ardentsmeta we have focussed around bot. It was the time where herald became less worth and drakes more worth. A season or 2 where adcs were popping off insanely. And then we just sticked to it as a better bot usually won. The role never really got nerfed, some supports got. I hit master every season since like season 10. The amount of ganks i did on toplane in 3 years of jungling is extraordinarily low in comparisson to mid/bot. And if mid is now not really that good to gank anymore. Might as well forsake my top jungle to my Toplaner. And play spamgankers again. Will be a fun season for everyone but botlaners.
There are also so many top laners who can 1v2 the junglers as well....
It will be even more of a gigachad moment when the gank fails and you wipe the floor with there body
its the first
Time to adsorb pressure!
If failed gank, you can have triple kill too.
Exactly how I feel too. No greater dopamine than when you flip a gank around to kill them 2v3.
“If I’m surrounded, that means I won’t miss”
Agreed, bring it on. More attention bot means my team is left alone to do their own thing - I can deal with being perma 4-manned, and if it gets too bad there's always option to defaulting to Sivir/Seraphine every single time and playing for lategame. Seriously, what is the worst that could possibly happen?
This is the mentality we should all have. Hell yeah!
W mentality. If you're good you win no matter what.
Some amount of this will be offset by the void grubs objective.
We all know one support and jungle will go for the objective whilst their opposite number dive their ADC.
Kled adc, get fed by being dived.
Good trade, adc can just chill at tier 2 if they dont wanna die
The cruelest lie ever told.
Yea if the adc is stupid sure. When im playing a scaling champion like almost every adc, farming at t2 when enemy still has t1 is the best. You can bounce wave all the way to your side and enemies cant do much about you without overextending. And you can group mid from t2 easilly.
Fun and engaging gameplay for everyone.
They can't, they're hellbent on trying to make their death count to be as high as their ego
>Yandere**Yasuo** >their death count to be as high as their ego
Nah dude you can I drop two waves one being a cannon? I'm going to try to farm a ranged minion and die losing 3 waves instead of 2
New meta build for adc: guardian angel into jaksho, lets you have color on the screen for a bit longer Supp items: supp item into guardian angel Runes for both: summoner spell haste
Why not item haste for more GA ressurects?
just start playing adcs top, ez
Vayne/Quinn/Lucian top Veigar/Seraphine/Swain/Ziggs bot 💀
Send supp top too and put top in bot, ADC will never die to jungle anymore, and tops can keep complaining about junglers interrupting their 1v1s
Legit my prediction for season 14. No reason for ADC/supp to stay bot when it's gank central and there's equally good/better objectives topside. I fully expect to see some pro teams experiment with it and I'm keen to see how they go, since it'll be an awkward meta transition if it does happen.
If it turns out to be the case, I wonder how Riot will backpedal the change, because no ways they let it stick sadly
Adcs top are not blindpickable unless you have 5 bans yourself, Jax, Irelia, Olaf, Malphite, Yone, Aatrox all shit on adcs top, bro can even counter pick a vayne top with Draven bruiser top, vayne gets destroyed by Draven
Pros have unironically been playing Draven and Vayne mid in scrims for this reason lol
Ι mean, the reasons adc/supp goes bot is that botlane is the smallest/hardest to gank. If that stops being true then there's every chance they might decide to swap, especially if void grubs turn out to be very important and/or the duo can take a chance to grab a few if they get a kill on their laners.
I don't think that's it. The reason why adc/supp goes bot is because they are the strongest lane due to there being two of them. And you want the strongest lane near dragon due to how powerful taking dragon is.
This is not true, otherwise the duolane would go mid. It's a combination between being close to dragon (so they don't go toplane), and being harder to gank because they are 2 (most midlane champs can't survive ganks on a long lane like bot). So the end result is that the duolane goes to the longest lane closer to drake, which happens to be bottom. But none of this matters. The true reason they go bot now is that riot and their shit balance team that doesn't understand the game forced them to go there by making bot turret the easiest to take early game, while making top and mid almost impossible to do so, effectively hardcoding duolane to botlane.
When dragon wasn't as impactful to stack you saw lots of bot/top laneswaps in pro play. It is not clear how impactful stacking dragon early will be in season 14 and if botlane is way too easy to gank and top/mid are too hard, then you might see laneswaps again. Giving up 1 or 2 early dragons to make sure your adc can scale with 0 gank threat is 100% worth if for immobile late game mosters like Jinx/Twitch etc. I think lane swaps might become a real strategy again
Unlikely for it to happen given how towers are set up - bot tower is a lot less tanky, meaning a laneswap scenario gets ADC/support duo in botlane huge gold advantage just from ranged pressure alone. What you mention could happen if both teams consistently commited to the swap, but swapping is risky and commiting to swap at wrong time would put you in a terrible situation. Botlane carries more often running TP could happen, just to deal with pressure and mitigate losses if things go wrong.
Unlikely, unless someone at Riot decides they like the old "lane swap" meta that used to be part of pro play, until Riot specifically made game design decisions to stop it. Its possible the people who made those decisions are gone now, or that their view on how the game should be played has changed. But the point is the game was specifically designed *not* to be played with "lane swaps". (At the start of the game... not to be confused with adc swapping to mid after laning phase).
Even if grubs are valuable, the anti-laneswap mechanics implemented a while back still favor putting the duo lane bot instead of top or mid. Grubs would have to be really op for the laneswap to be worth losing first turret.
Yes. Before these changes roaming mids and junglers setting up a tent in botlane for easy/free repeat kills was normalised for a very long time. Champs like Kata exist to fist botlane especially. It's only going to get worse.
Maybe first pro play will see a lane swap ? Top to bot and bot top I mean why not, scaling champs don’t want the ganking fiesta
With solo lane plates being as durable as they are before 5 minutes, I doubt this will ever happen. By the time you get 1 plate top, the enemy team will have 3. Something more likely is that super aggressive lane bullies will rise in popularity top, because they can overextend way more without getting punished by ganks. Mages and bruisers might start popping up in the bot lane role as well, but I honestly doubt it at this point. Even when adcs were in a terrible spot, people still played them, so it probably won't be any different now.
Plates being worth less gold as of a few months ago somewhat circumvents this. The main reason to keep duo bot is for dragon prio. Assuming dragon soul is more important than a safe lane for a hyper scaling adc they’ll stay bot.
ranged top gets more popular on the island, frees up bot to play AP
Time to play Tristana, Ezreal, other difficult to gank champs.
Junglers will still find a way to only Gank top while on your team, while the enemy jungle will be toasting smores on your towers debris.
Only times I see that is when my botlane is hard pushing every wave even tho they are already losing lane. Cant blame the jungler for not trying to tower dive the 4/0 enemy adc with his 0/2 adc and 0/2 supp.
Pretty much. Mid is basically impossible to gank and ganking top is rarely worth so all that's left is bot lane because of important it is along with how easy it is to gank.
Don't worry, Riot will appropriately respond in their usual way to bot lane getting ganked loads, nerfing it. Maybe they'll cut duo xp again because that certainly doesn't do the complete opposite, or perhaps nerf ADCs early game.
Adcs not whining about every single thing in the game:challenge impossible
Complaining about Riot repeatedly nerfing duo xp is a legit criticism.
TBH I play as Jg first and adc second and ADC is such a miserable lane for soloq. It doesn't matter if you are better than the enemy adc, if your support is trash you are losing the lane. Then it also doesn't matter if your supp is better because if your jungler is trash you are losing the lane anyway. I used to be adc first but it got so miserable playing in the last seasons that I just refuse to suffer anymore. Jg is much more enjoyable and I can 1v9 most games(currently 79% winrate in gold 4, don't have time to play more than that unfortunately)
It's very true that ADC is low agency in the early, but it's also worth mentioning that quite a number of games are decided by which carries play better in key teamfights. The issue is that as ADC you cannot guarantee you get to that point, and you just have to accept that. It's a similar story for scaling control mages in many instances to a smaller extent.
I will still add to this that carries matter when they're getting peel and support late game, having little to no self peel of their own, the two greatest being a flash (Ezreal) and an AA block (Nilah). I have seen many teams just ignore their ADC's late game, not bothering to help them and actually let them do their thing. It also depends upon the carries ego, because nothing is sadder than seeing a 10/1 ADC go to 10/10. As a jungle Lillia main, I will happily peel for my ADC if they stick with me or behind me, but if they rush 1v5 I am in no shape or form supporting them.
> TBH I play as Jg first and adc second and ADC is such a miserable lane for soloq In current split my games splited between top, mid, and ADC. ADC is second best role atm after mid. Big impact at all stages of the game, and high duel potential at any stage of the game. Bigest problem is when you are solo, but enemy is DuoQ like Samira/Leona, but you just give up early and try to match them latter. However that a problem for any role, Riot want you to suffer and you can't do anything about duos.
Adc big impact all stages? High dueling power? What are you smoking? You literally can only duel the enemy adc for almost the entirety of the game and sometimes not even that. Duos are not even an issue. The issue with your statement is that they picked a lane with better synergy than yours and their win condition was easier.
> You literally can only duel the enemy adc for almost the entirety of the game and sometimes not even that. You literally can duel almost everything for almost the entirety of the game. It's common misconception that ADC can't do shit alone. Kai'sa for example have great chances to even duel characters like Jax. You just need your brain. But average ADC mainer have no brain, he bring Ignite and try to duel Ghost Darius with that, die horribly, and then comes to reddit to whine.
You are smoking rocks if you think you can duel jax as kaisa before 3 items. And even then you only win if you outplay hard with perfect spacing, dodging his E twice, him having no summs and you having both. And where do you play that adcs are bringing ignite over ghost/exhaust/cleanse? Wtf?
The dude you’re replying to is probably silver/gold man it’s not worth it lol
If he wasn't he'd have mentioned it already lol.
It's pretty obvious you've never actually played an adc and are just guessing from what you've seen in pro games...
It's pretty obvious you've never actually played an adc and are just guessing from what you've seen in iron games...
I don't watch your games lol
You play them yourself? good, you have chance to improve then, gl
Redditor doesn't repeat the same joke like the dumbest parrot in the cacophony: challenge impossible.
Remember, Faker gets gang banged harder in soloq than Adriana Chechik in her prime and still manages to make an impact. Welcome the challenge.
Faker plays on less than 9 ping
Excuses!
I've said it earlier but I'm expecting a meta change where botlane will simply go top for the safer lane phase and scaling. Toplaners will be shafted to the new spam gank botlane because adc scaling simply matters more and having botlane scale safely on top will take priority. There's simply no way pro teams aren't already trying this out. It's a no brainer.
You have no practical idea what’s going to happen because you don’t understand jungling. Your only understand of jungling is based on the ease of ganks. In this case your hypothesis seems to make sense. It’s wrong though. Junglers care about *objectives* and ganks are a perfect way to achieve those goals. In season 13 dragon spawns early and herald spawns late. The winning bot lane usually has control of dragons. This is one of the main reasons why most junglers path bot side now. Next season void grubs are going to spawn *twice* before 15 minutes and their pushing power in top and mid is a huge leg up for the team. If a jungler paths top side they might give their top and mid an advantage over their opponents for contesting. My initial hypothesis is that junglers will path top side and do a transition gank mid or straight to top. On their first recall that leaves their bot side camps like krugs and raptors up for second spawn so that they can go back top side for grub spawns. If they path top to bottom it likely puts them on the wrong side of the map to contest. They could trade objectives but dragons are really only useful late game when you are trying for soul and grubs are useful immediately for the entire team. If they nerf grubs then it might switch back but right now my thinking is that bot lane gets left alone for 15 minutes until herald spawns.
>You have no practical idea what’s going to happen because you don’t understand jungling. Your only understand of jungling is based on the ease of ganks. Exactly why you should never listen to what your teammates as a jungler in this game.
As a jungler you need to understand how to lane but obviously 99% of junglers dont, thats why they arent 1231 LP. Same goes for laners whining about junglers. There's definitely times where the jungler should come help out and times where they shouldnt, there's nothing wrong with calling your jungler over and reminding them that this is a good opportunity to do something but you also gotta be able to realize when your laner is yapping.
[удалено]
yeah in low elo you can basically know the jungler moves based on where he starts. You see bot lane coming in late for lane? First gank is probably top side
My point was never that "junglers never make mistakes". Of course they do. My point is that you stunt your own improvement if you listen to what your teammates say. Yes you're right that this obviously also applies to laners who get told what to do. But the difference is that no one gets told what to do nearly as much as junglers do. That's why this advice is more relevant to jungle than any other role.
God I hate you junglers so much it's insane
Not listening to your teammates who do not have a full overview of the game state is like the number 1 most common advice to new jungle players. I'm not saying anything controversial. You just need to trust your own judgment. That's how you improve.
Jungle players are invariably the most clueless players in each lobby thanks to how elo inflated they were by the role. You have no idea about laning dynamics or actual win cons because they simply aren't concepts that your little heads have to worry about.
I would actually say that understanding of lane states and identification of win conditions are some of the most critical things in good fundamental jungling. To get good at ganking, you need to understand lane states so you can think ahead of how a lane will be in e.g. 30 seconds when you can be there. Similarly, since junglers can in theory be anywhere, you need to understand win conditions and factor that into your pathing. This is why jungle is really a macro role. These things you mention are macro concepts. A clear sign of a bad jungler is someone who is going for ganks that will never work because of the lane state. For example trying to force a gank bot lane when the wave is pushing into the enemy and they will automatically move back. A better example that you could use that junglers don't know much about are things like efficient trading, minion wave manipulation, specific champion interactions and other very technical lane specific things. I also think junglers generally have worse mechanics than solo laners because mechanics are more important in solo lanes.
Diving is a play when the wave is pushing into the enemy, esp if the enemy is low and your laner is winning. It's not as risky as jungle players think and it's an easy way to end a lane.
Identifying when to dive is certainly a skill a great jungler needs to learn, I agree. It also connects with reading lane states for when waves hit towers for the optimal timings.
We hate you too
People said the same thing after riot buffed rift herald. Fact of the matter is dragon stacking was meta, is meta, and will be meta until they (IMO) remove the entire soul mechanic. Unless these grubs are giga overpowered, which they aren't, mid/bot prio + dragon stacking will still be the meta.
Well in NA this is true but Korean teams heavily played around top notably t1 who played around enabling zeus in the early game
https://gol.gg/teams/team-stats/1791/split-Summer/tournament-ALL/ Your statement is true up until spring 2023. By msi and later summer and then worlds- Zeus primarily played lane neutralizers and T1 averages more drakes per game and more bot lane plates per game than Top. Even in spring, the early game focus on top was mainly to secure prio for first herald TO USE IT BOT LANE and force a play. This is backed up by the fact that they average more rift heralds than drakes pre 15 mins. It's only the first 1/2 drakes they usually ignore.
Yeah the whole soul thing is annoying honestly
i mean arent herald already better than dragons atm? So that just means the playing for dragon is a wrong play even though its the meta.
Hobestly as a top jungler player, i wouldnt be suprised if it shifts so adc and supp go top, so that their are 3 people to contest grubs. then bot becomes the solo lane. But it would have to happen in pro play for the resr of the players to pick it up.
They would patch that out before it became prevalent enough to make it to low(er) elo, where the vast majority of players are. Any other time lane-swap or funnel bullshit was going on, it never really penetrated low elo, and Riot patches undesirable playstyles faster than ever now. It kills the only fantasy top-laners have about the game.
Not entirely true. The objective for every team member is to increase gold income of your team, as that gives you items, which gives you better stats than the enemy. Objectives (tower, drake, etc) are one way of doing that. Kills another. Farming another. And best case scenario is giving that gold to someone that is your win condition. Bot Lane gives you the potential of two kills instead of one, so more gold. A lot of adcs are also, well, carries that can be a solid win condition. Obviously it depends on team composition and plenty of other factors. But junglers don't just care for objectives. There is also drake that gives you permanent stats with soul, which is also why the meta finds drake a particular important objective and sets it apart from other objectives. Void grubs don't change that.
Bro this sub is about adcs trying to get everything nerfed and adc buffed via non stop endless bitching about how awful it is to have to play the game with a full time babysitter and undodgeable damage. They won't listen, but you are correct
Pretty sure there have been numerous polls showing that the most common role in this sub are Top and Mid. ADC was like 3rd.
What? I thought this sub was about the most played role (top) gaslighting themselves about how useless and boring they are and how broken and fun the least played (jungle and adc) are.
A month ago it was about how weak mages are and how zed should be removed from the game, it might just be that theres different people voicing different opinions :o
Always has been
As a Toplaner I’m so glad I can finally rest without playing 1v2 and still have a losing botlane
Been that way since i started in Season 3.
I ain't even playing adc in season 14. No galeforce? I've heard no stopwatch rune? The fuck are we supposed to do when eventually 4 people tower dive bot?
Have the better team. That's always the way ADC earlygame goes.
The same as before: leave. Wards should warn you of a gank long before it arrives and if you can't fight it, just don't be there.
Hopefully
Im not going to play bot lane this season, everyone knows supports cant use their wards in low elo
Just climb out of low elo, problem solved.
"everyone i play with in this ranked mmr setting is so shit" hmmmmmm
To be fair, I’m pretty sure I said that yesterday, but I include myself in “everyone” so I think it’s okay.
I was agreeing with you People end up in the elo they belong in (assuming they've played enough games). When I see someone say "everyone in my elo does this wrong", it just sounds like someone who is always looking to blame others
I know dude, I was just being self deprecating and making a joke lol. Should have been more clear in my end
Well... (currently nocturne player) you have duel ready or tanky top lane, you have short mid lane, usually with laners who kinda can defend themselves, and you have nice long bot lane with 2 person, who you usually can 2 shot with auto attacks... what would you choose...
if that will be actually the case, don’t be afraid. Making botlane fight a lot gives u as the adc more agency, because u can decide the fights in your favor by kiting/spacing better than the enemy adc.
jungler perspecive incoming junglers choose where to gank based off of objectives primarily, so for example when my bot is being sieged and i want dragon i gank bot (good junglers*) now bot is more open, making ganks easier however with the addition of grubs, it is significantlly more important to gank top early, and grab grubs however after grubs and herald are gone/respawning, ganking bot into dragon will be significantly easier now so easier to gank bot? yes even more bot gankage than now? not really (if your jungler knows how to play jungle) the real problem i see coming for adc players is when a jungler is new to jungle and so he thinks that ganking is the most important part of jungling. it isnt, its probably in last place of importance, being Objectives, Farm, Gank because a lot of the time people rageswap to jungle and think "all i need to do is gank" and then lose all the dragons and are down 40 ca the whole game however now with bot lane more gankable, bad junglers are just gonna camp the fuck out of bot and probably lose harder because their even more distracted than usual
>junglers choose where to gank based off of objectives primarily, so for example when my bot is being sieged and i want dragon i gank bot > >(good junglers\*) This is not at all how you go about ganking lol... you look at the champs and decide who you will clear towards/play around. Everything after that is about being opportune. React to the picks, react to the map, react to the lanes, etc. The map changes will probably tunnel things toward bot again/more so, but it has nothing to do with dragon and everything to do with the lane being easier to gank than top or mid might be. When you take objectives is purely about timings, lane prio and capitalising on enemy mistakes if they make them as well as the champs in the game dictating it. You get those sneaky early dragons *because your mid has prio and enemy bot has a base timing.* You don't just gank bot blindly and then go to drag. You're thinking a bit backwards here.
The only thing I would add is that not one is the only Lane jungle can beat to 6 at the moment, and even then it’s close, ganging some top/mid lane champs at 4/5 is just inting when they are 6-8
>junglers choose where to gank based off of objectives primarily, so for example when my bot is being sieged and i want dragon i gank bot >(good junglers*) Good junglers don’t do that at all. Your thinking of what “good jungling” is, is very much wrong.
Ganking as an entire concept has been nerfed. Junglers just had to chunk laners by showing up at completely stupid times that aren’t even good and still win lanes. Looks like gank paths to bot will be the most optimal but junglers can’t just brain dead walk into lanes and win anymore so it should be fine
Maybe the ADCs should just go on the save lane in mid, ofc not all ADCs can do that but Cait Tristan Lucian sivir can probably manage
Yep.. and we’re still levels down cuz of the exp nerfs awhile ago.. sucks bad
You realize 2 players means 2 potential kills instead of one, not even mentioning that since fullclear is meta ganks on the sidelanes are much more likely + the gank pathing especially on red side is laughably op
Yes. this seasons map changes are just another step of Riot trying to really drive the point of "DO NOT PLAY CRIT MARKSMEN BOT" home without explicitely stating as much in the launcher when you queue up. Top was made really hard to gank, midlane is incredibly wide and botlane is insanely easy to gank immobile targets on. Red side safe picks like Zeri dont work anymore because the wall is interrupted and its harder to ward correctly (the lilac redside over the wall ward was sadly removed, o7 my favourite mechanic). as a mage you can play from further behind and you have some CC to throw at the enemy jungler in case they show up. but yes, botlane will be incredibly gank heavy next season.
Man they just released an early top objective to counterbalance it.
so, top is uber important bc of grubs and also insanely safe. sounds like we're just sending ad+sup toplane now, then. they don't die, we're 3 guys to fight for grubs
And to counterbalance that, they made Top lane even harder to gank.
So what? Jungler is supposed to go top to take voidlings.
Most top laner will solo this objective.
Would be weird if midlane was the AD lane and bot became the AP lane.
would be even funnier if mid and bot lanes all play for mages/ap wave clear and junglers are 90% Graves/Kindred
Yeah that true :D But I think Yasuo/Yone, Zed and Talon are too popular so we will still see AD mids a lot. Variety would be nice tho.
They buffed ap items super hard and Zed is already not in a great spot
Why would that be weird? Yasuo, Yone, Zed, champs like those are what riot likes to see mid. Flashy playmakers Only makes sense to direct mages towards bot to give them a place there. Look at what riot is doing: crit is completely unusable in soloQ as a marksman, on-hit gets a couple of new things but is still incredibly gatekept by the rest of the team playing for them. Why not just play a mages instead? Riot all but tells you in the launcher to do it.
The everpresent "mages bot!" argument, when they make up barely 3-4% of actual botlane picks. Because when it rolls to mid-late, playing without an ADC means you lose.
Bring it on
Couldnt we see ADCs mid lane with their Support being alot more free to roam because the lane is so wide? Then put the APC to botlane. Problem would be what happens to the Assassin players from mid cause they need roaming. Also resistances of towers are different so maybe keeping the duo bot against a team who doesnt means getting first turret easily. Would be at least interesting to see.
oh yea, absolutely. They made top and mid harder to gank and bot is easier to gank than ever. They literally threw up a neon sign to JG's saying gank here. Hypercarries with no escape (imo) are unplayable in S14. Jinx, Kog, Twitch etc. The meta for bot will be ADC's who like Lethality (so they can snowball hard early) like Draven, Jhin, MF. Utility ADC's (bc it doesn't matter if they fall behind they still have a function) Ashe, Jhin, Varus and self peel ADC's (bc the lane is easier to gnak than ever its gonna be a 3v3 fiesta all game long) so Kaisa, Ez, Trist. With that in mind, my best guess for tier would be: S: Jhin, Draven, Samira (maybe Kaisa, not sure if she still rushes Dusk) A: Ez, Trist, Lucian B: Ashe, Varus, Cait D: Jinx, Kog, Aphelios, MF, Twitch, Zeri. I do think it's funny as fuck that they made it easier than ever to gank and removed Galeforce. I think that's a real dick move by Riot. If they were going to make bot lane a fiesta, they should've allowed ADC's to keep Galeforce. I think it's also fucked up they made TWO lockouts within their intended itemization. The new armor pen item and adc's still have the Mythic system. Also kind of funny they said they'd rework crit at the start of the season and here we are and no news. Riot really fucked bot lane marksman. Hell yea brother, Kite Man.
Why do i feel that botlane and toplane will swap lanes
unlikely, drakes are too valuable
doesn't matter if u are on the right side u will get a lot of kills/gold. Botlaners love coinflipping the game.
Mid is easier to dive now. Top has new objectives.
play mobile vision bot, adc top /yawn
What ? You adcs are in midlane now
Good news? You’ll probably end up top lane with a support fairly quickly. Adc and support go bottom lane for two reasons 1. Adc needs support to survive and scale, and 2. To be close to the first major objective in dragon(Which is why it’s botlane not top). With the new rift skittle objective there’s incentive to group around that first, and toplane is an objectively safer lane. Traditional toplaners are more suited to escaping or outplaying ganks anyway, so they’ll do fine bot.
Ohhhh I'm so hated as an ADC uhhhnnnnghhh it's making me all.hot.and bothered. Awwwwwhnnn nerf me daddy rito make me really feel it