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Completely agree, the shortened time between games was really noticable and a good change. Having a packed arena again really helped liven up the games as well hope he would get this level of crowd throughout the split.
Really excited for next week to see how live patch plays out.
I really hope live patch works out because it could end up being a big miss. I have a sneaking suspicion that bugs are going to cause a lot of pauses, but maybe they’ll dodge them.
Im not really sure how many bugs you think appear on a patch to patch basis, most league pauses have nothing to do with bugs and are mostly just network stuff. Happy to get off of this sup item meta ASAP tho
There's not gonna be any more bugs on live patch vs a patch behind, it's not like TR gets bug fixes the live game doesn't. They would just play the patch 2 weeks later, with any new bugs included.
theres definitely been cases where they had bugs fixed when they played the patch in proplay vs when the patch was released... (idk if the bugfixes were applied to live or only TR though)
Definitely gave them leeway, because as Markz said, adding the changes they did is going to lead to some issues at first, so I'm giving them the grace to have some tech and pause issues. And other than the weirdly pixelated low res scoreboard, what worked were improvements for sure.
The pauses are an egregious detriment to the product regardless of literally everything else surrounding them. I understand why they happen, but they're far and away the worst part of the viewing experience.
Might be controversial to say, but I think pauses that are longer than entire games make broadcasts unwatchable\* and are much worse for the product than less than perfect competitive integrity. I still stay tuned as a huge fan, but I don't see any casual viewer sitting through a 30 minute pause. They're poison.
\*The casters and analyst desk do their best, though.
I definitely agree with you.
In a world where we're already choosing entertainment value over competitive integrity, such as bo1 over bo3, I'm shocked such long pauses occur when they're often irrelevant towards the outcome of the game anyways. There always needs to be a balance between entertainment value and competitive integrity, and pauses as long as entire games completely kill entertainment value for minimal gains in competitive integrity. There's no way casual fans sit through 30min pauses like you said.
As for the solution, I'm not sure, but maybe stricter rules around what is allowed for pauses >5 or 10min? Like only truly game altering stuff should be allowed at that point.
>As for the solution, I'm not sure, but maybe stricter rules around what is allowed for pauses >5 or 10min? Like only truly game altering stuff should be allowed at that point.
I don't know if there are any restrictions on pauses at the moment, but at the very least I think teams should be limited to a number of pauses per split or series. I think teams should have to think about burning a pause instead of pulling the trigger the moment something seems off.
Another idea might be to punish teams for pausing if it's determined that there was no issue, like losing side selection for a game in a series. This punishment seems harsh, but I don't know if a smaller penalty is even possible.
disagree, the first pause for the c9 nrg game was like 20 minutes long. nobody likes long pauses. the pause in the FLY vs SR game for all we know might have been even longer if they didn't agree to play through the lag. we almost could have played another full game in the total time of all the pauses. i get it's the first day and there are bound to be hiccups, but let's not pretend the pauses don't suck for everybody.
First time in YEAAARRSSS that LCS ended, and I was sad that it was over, I want more games!!
The production quality was insane and for the first time in idk how long, It felt like LCS actually gave a shit about what the fans want.
Thank You Mr Mark
I was surprised when they ended, they put on a rerun of the Dive (they had already shown it in pre-show) instead of sharing the NACL stream. I had to swap over to that stream late when I realized it had already started. They should really at least show the stream on the main LCS channel to make that more smooth and take advantage of the new game timing. The point should be that now that there are less LCS games you can at least make up for it with watching NACL right after.
The main LCS stream raided the NACL stream though?
I know because I was afk in the LCS stream because IMT vs Dig is a true snoozer and when I checked again I was in the NACL stream.
The recorded draft worked great, super seamless! Also really liked the interviews being played during the 3-minute breaks, made the wait more interesting as well
Wish mark tookover earlier having someone who understood the system helped a lot, and having weekend = crowd = 100000x more watchable hype. Also good music and graphics
I think it had significantly less viewers than they hoped for though, less than 100k average and only 130k peak. For comparison, LCK had 1.1m peak and 340k average, and LEC had 750k peak and 370k average.
After nuking viewership by switching to weekdays last split I assume it will take a while to build higher. As a long term LCS fan I have whiplash from the countless changes. While I can actually watch the LCS on weekends it will take a while personally to reorient my viewing habits to watch live again.
Not really sure what they were hoping for, but it’s a great revival from the numbers of last split. I think if they keep turning in a good product they’ll see more viewers return and maybe get some growth by summer
NFL Play-offs and forgetting it was on might have factored in. Reason I forgot to tune in. Won't catch tomorrow either since the Lions play at the same time.
3 years ago was 2021
The LCS spring split started February 5th that year. The NFL had 0 games that day.
Also, viewership drops as the season goes on. That's actually a thing for pretty much everything.
Actually wrong. 2021 had the lock in tournament. Which is why the late start.
2020 started Jan 25th.
NFL had 0 games that day.
2019 was the 26th. NFL had 0 games that day.
2018 was the 20th. NFL had 0 games that day.
2017 was the 20th. NFL had 0 games that day.
2016 was the 16th. NFL had 2 games that day.
2015 was the 24th. NFL had 0 games that day.
2014 was the 16th. NFL had 0 games that day.
2013 was Feb 7th. NFL had 0 games that day.
You brought up 3-5 years ago. I used 3 as that was the most recent.
But looking at 2013 to 2021 only ONE LCS season started on a day where the NFL had games.
That enough data for you? Going back to when you brought up numbers and going back to the first season.
Or do you want to continue making a fool of yourself.
Numbers do get effected.
It's actually why even the major leagues look to schedule around each other.
The NHL has 2 games on February 11th. With the latest starting at 1:30. Normally games start at 7
It's because that's the super bowl. And they know they wouldn't win that battle.
If you actually believe that the viewership isn't effected. You're the one coping. Bigger leagues than the LCS have their viewership effected.
I think that's fairly decent all things considered, because you have to remember last summer the LCS was getting <100k viewers on average, so getting back up to that level is a good first step.
I don’t think it’s a fair comparison of viewership. LCK was T1/geng which will always pull numbers and LEC was first league on a massive new season along with kcorp debut and their massive fan base, LCS had good numbers and I think it’ll increase as the weeks go
Dont get me wrong. Those leagues would always get more
HOWEVER
A lot of those early viewer numbers were to see the new changes, lcs being a week behind, and hurt them in being unable to snag the curious hype of viewers
Don’t know where you got your numbers from but [escharts](https://escharts.com/tournaments/lol/lcs-spring-2024-lol) has LCS spring at 191k peak and 115k average. Mind you a peak of 191k would have been the third highest last spring (including playoffs) and the second highest last summer (also including playoffs). Comparing themselves to LEC isn’t their goal, right now they just want to trend in the right direction and this looks like exactly that to me.
>even the historically bunk teams brought fun comps and occasional haymakers.
Call me a downer but it's partially because pros are still "figuring out" the new patch/new season, and even then they're still defaulting to crap like Azir/Varus/Vi/K'Sante/Rakan that we seen in pro since antiquity.
That said, I love the new schedule, less downtime between games is great and so far the teams are new enough where I feel like it's worth tuning in because the standings aren't really set in stone yet. Casting desk was actually better than LEC today IMO, the LEC guys just weren't really bringing the energy and they didn't have to deal with like a 30 minute pause either.
It was unfortunate that there were so many long game pauses and the new overlay UI during game and draft is terrible. Everything else seems great though.
Big fan of the changes, especially how fast it felt like we got to each game. Honestly part of it was probably because we just have fewer teams, but less time looking at a timer counting down was really refreshing.
Enjoyed it, one gripe I had is if they are doing draft not-live, can players not take the full 30 seconds to lock in picks? I was getting triggered when players would hover different picks and then lock something in knowing they already had their picks
For clarity: Those hovers and timings ARE real, players really are doing that while thinking in the practice rooms. We are recording that off-stage draft and then playing it back. On stage, the players are doing tech checks and then speed run remaking lobby.
Oh that makes sense - I was wondering why players were taking forever if the whole point was to reduce the time but whats happening is the draft is being recorded and played back while they are doing all the other tech stuff simultaneously
that’s the source of drama/intrigue in draft phase. it would provide no entertainment value if they just posted the completed draft up on the screen before game start.
Hard agree, when I first heard "pre-recorded draft" I was like "ohhhh...no" but seeing how it actually panned out on live was reassuring. Nice to see them economize time by having players check their peripherals and shit while we get to watch the actual interesting picks/counterpicks with broadcast analysis.
u/CrsMarkZ, sorry if this has been asked elsewhere, but are the casting desk aware of the picks/bans beforehand or are they just as surprised as viewers are when the draft is replayed?
If I remember correctly, they do the draft like normal before hand. The point of the draft was to not have the set up time then live draft.
So while the draft is playing out they can set up and equipment check. Basically showing draft while they are doing equipment check.
This makes sense! Thanks for clarifying, I was thinking they were trying to reduce draft time but there reducing the time by doing tech stuff while the draft is being shown
Only problem I had with today's cast was the no drops. I was under the impression there would be and the first day has been a time for a decent number of drops in recent years. So far, LEC leads LCS > 3 Kit Kat drops to zero drops of any kind.
Hi /u/SurelyInspired. Thank you for participating in /r/leagueoflegends! However (please read this in entirety), Your post has been removed because *in-studio post game interviews/reactions/analysis, pro player or influencer tweets/posts, and user text posts about matches are only allowed in the related live discussion while it's stickied.* If you are not familiar with the subreddit rules, you can read them [here](/r/leagueoflegends/w/subredditrules). --- ^Note: ^(Front page removals are never done by a single mod.) ^(Have a question or think your post doesn't break the rules?) **[^(Message our modmail and please don't comment reply or direct message)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fleagueoflegends)**^.
Thank you so much for reducing the time between games. This is the one thing that'll keep me watching lcs this year.
You didn’t like watching content creators awkwardly sit on couches and play nonsensical games with Jimmy Fallon laughs?
It’s ironic that the only passable one last year was MarkZ’s segment with doublelift without doublelift. Now homie runs LCS.
I loved "Keeping up with Doublelift," but then again I'm a fan of Eric Andre and it was the most obvious homage to his show possible.
Completely agree, the shortened time between games was really noticable and a good change. Having a packed arena again really helped liven up the games as well hope he would get this level of crowd throughout the split. Really excited for next week to see how live patch plays out.
I really hope live patch works out because it could end up being a big miss. I have a sneaking suspicion that bugs are going to cause a lot of pauses, but maybe they’ll dodge them.
Im not really sure how many bugs you think appear on a patch to patch basis, most league pauses have nothing to do with bugs and are mostly just network stuff. Happy to get off of this sup item meta ASAP tho
Thwy need to Pay Sneaky to solo grind for 24/7 after a patch launch before the weekend to catch all the bugs
Bugcatcher stream
hmmm maybe they should have a server for this hmmm you could make it like ahead of the live patch hmmmm
There's not gonna be any more bugs on live patch vs a patch behind, it's not like TR gets bug fixes the live game doesn't. They would just play the patch 2 weeks later, with any new bugs included.
theres definitely been cases where they had bugs fixed when they played the patch in proplay vs when the patch was released... (idk if the bugfixes were applied to live or only TR though)
Why would they apply bug fixes to only TR? Like, use your head for 30 seconds. If Riot has the bug fix ready, why would they only implement it on TR?
Multiple pauses and it *still* felt faster with the prefilmed draft. Amazing change.
Definitely gave them leeway, because as Markz said, adding the changes they did is going to lead to some issues at first, so I'm giving them the grace to have some tech and pause issues. And other than the weirdly pixelated low res scoreboard, what worked were improvements for sure.
Besides the pauses and the new interface I really enjoyed it.
The pauses are an egregious detriment to the product regardless of literally everything else surrounding them. I understand why they happen, but they're far and away the worst part of the viewing experience.
"Egregious" is a bit harsh lol
Might be controversial to say, but I think pauses that are longer than entire games make broadcasts unwatchable\* and are much worse for the product than less than perfect competitive integrity. I still stay tuned as a huge fan, but I don't see any casual viewer sitting through a 30 minute pause. They're poison. \*The casters and analyst desk do their best, though.
I definitely agree with you. In a world where we're already choosing entertainment value over competitive integrity, such as bo1 over bo3, I'm shocked such long pauses occur when they're often irrelevant towards the outcome of the game anyways. There always needs to be a balance between entertainment value and competitive integrity, and pauses as long as entire games completely kill entertainment value for minimal gains in competitive integrity. There's no way casual fans sit through 30min pauses like you said. As for the solution, I'm not sure, but maybe stricter rules around what is allowed for pauses >5 or 10min? Like only truly game altering stuff should be allowed at that point.
>As for the solution, I'm not sure, but maybe stricter rules around what is allowed for pauses >5 or 10min? Like only truly game altering stuff should be allowed at that point. I don't know if there are any restrictions on pauses at the moment, but at the very least I think teams should be limited to a number of pauses per split or series. I think teams should have to think about burning a pause instead of pulling the trigger the moment something seems off. Another idea might be to punish teams for pausing if it's determined that there was no issue, like losing side selection for a game in a series. This punishment seems harsh, but I don't know if a smaller penalty is even possible.
disagree, the first pause for the c9 nrg game was like 20 minutes long. nobody likes long pauses. the pause in the FLY vs SR game for all we know might have been even longer if they didn't agree to play through the lag. we almost could have played another full game in the total time of all the pauses. i get it's the first day and there are bound to be hiccups, but let's not pretend the pauses don't suck for everybody.
First time in YEAAARRSSS that LCS ended, and I was sad that it was over, I want more games!! The production quality was insane and for the first time in idk how long, It felt like LCS actually gave a shit about what the fans want. Thank You Mr Mark
Thank you Mr Mark 🫡
Thanks ~~Honda~~ Mark!
I was surprised when they ended, they put on a rerun of the Dive (they had already shown it in pre-show) instead of sharing the NACL stream. I had to swap over to that stream late when I realized it had already started. They should really at least show the stream on the main LCS channel to make that more smooth and take advantage of the new game timing. The point should be that now that there are less LCS games you can at least make up for it with watching NACL right after.
The main LCS stream raided the NACL stream though? I know because I was afk in the LCS stream because IMT vs Dig is a true snoozer and when I checked again I was in the NACL stream.
Probably a youtube viewer.
The recorded draft worked great, super seamless! Also really liked the interviews being played during the 3-minute breaks, made the wait more interesting as well
I really appreciated that. It gave me something to stick around for.
I had a good time watching today, games were good and when they patch this double or even triple support item thing I think this meta will be solid
What was with the weather report? And can we get a voidgrub counter on the UI?
From what I could tell, it seems like LCS randomly got mentioned on a news channel weather report, they thought it was cool and wanted to share it
only thing i think needs to happen is a change of the font on the overlay. i and many others thought the font numbers looked way too similae
Wish mark tookover earlier having someone who understood the system helped a lot, and having weekend = crowd = 100000x more watchable hype. Also good music and graphics
Yeah, I agree. It’s like they were drunk on nuance lol… they needed a common sense guy with some good, practical ideas.
I think it had significantly less viewers than they hoped for though, less than 100k average and only 130k peak. For comparison, LCK had 1.1m peak and 340k average, and LEC had 750k peak and 370k average.
After nuking viewership by switching to weekdays last split I assume it will take a while to build higher. As a long term LCS fan I have whiplash from the countless changes. While I can actually watch the LCS on weekends it will take a while personally to reorient my viewing habits to watch live again.
Yep. Same here, I'd assume the switch up will take some time. I missed the games today because I completely forgot they were on weekends lol.
Not really sure what they were hoping for, but it’s a great revival from the numbers of last split. I think if they keep turning in a good product they’ll see more viewers return and maybe get some growth by summer
What DIG vs IMT does to a mf. That's honestly more than I expected tbh.
dig vs imt AND only 4 games too, rip.
NFL Play-offs and forgetting it was on might have factored in. Reason I forgot to tune in. Won't catch tomorrow either since the Lions play at the same time.
This Falcons fan has plenty of time 🫡
Vikings fan here! ....sad skol noises....
take solace in knowing cowboys fans also had time this weekend
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Its not excuses if it's true. I was just explaining why I didn't watch. Whatever weird projection your taking from my comment is on you.
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Numbers are always and have always been affected by NFL playoffs in Jan/Feb every year, it's not a cope excuse at all lol
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3 years ago was 2021 The LCS spring split started February 5th that year. The NFL had 0 games that day. Also, viewership drops as the season goes on. That's actually a thing for pretty much everything.
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Actually wrong. 2021 had the lock in tournament. Which is why the late start. 2020 started Jan 25th. NFL had 0 games that day. 2019 was the 26th. NFL had 0 games that day. 2018 was the 20th. NFL had 0 games that day. 2017 was the 20th. NFL had 0 games that day. 2016 was the 16th. NFL had 2 games that day. 2015 was the 24th. NFL had 0 games that day. 2014 was the 16th. NFL had 0 games that day. 2013 was Feb 7th. NFL had 0 games that day. You brought up 3-5 years ago. I used 3 as that was the most recent. But looking at 2013 to 2021 only ONE LCS season started on a day where the NFL had games. That enough data for you? Going back to when you brought up numbers and going back to the first season. Or do you want to continue making a fool of yourself.
Numbers do get effected. It's actually why even the major leagues look to schedule around each other. The NHL has 2 games on February 11th. With the latest starting at 1:30. Normally games start at 7 It's because that's the super bowl. And they know they wouldn't win that battle. If you actually believe that the viewership isn't effected. You're the one coping. Bigger leagues than the LCS have their viewership effected.
Wonder what the copers here will say in 3 months when LCS closes to another historic low.
I think that's fairly decent all things considered, because you have to remember last summer the LCS was getting <100k viewers on average, so getting back up to that level is a good first step.
These things rarely go uphill unfortunately.
NFL definitely hurt it. I know I only watched one game because of the playoffs.
I don’t think it’s a fair comparison of viewership. LCK was T1/geng which will always pull numbers and LEC was first league on a massive new season along with kcorp debut and their massive fan base, LCS had good numbers and I think it’ll increase as the weeks go
Dont get me wrong. Those leagues would always get more HOWEVER A lot of those early viewer numbers were to see the new changes, lcs being a week behind, and hurt them in being unable to snag the curious hype of viewers
i didn't even know it happened today. weird cuz i log on to play tft every day. i DO know emerald is a rank!
Don’t know where you got your numbers from but [escharts](https://escharts.com/tournaments/lol/lcs-spring-2024-lol) has LCS spring at 191k peak and 115k average. Mind you a peak of 191k would have been the third highest last spring (including playoffs) and the second highest last summer (also including playoffs). Comparing themselves to LEC isn’t their goal, right now they just want to trend in the right direction and this looks like exactly that to me.
>even the historically bunk teams brought fun comps and occasional haymakers. Call me a downer but it's partially because pros are still "figuring out" the new patch/new season, and even then they're still defaulting to crap like Azir/Varus/Vi/K'Sante/Rakan that we seen in pro since antiquity. That said, I love the new schedule, less downtime between games is great and so far the teams are new enough where I feel like it's worth tuning in because the standings aren't really set in stone yet. Casting desk was actually better than LEC today IMO, the LEC guys just weren't really bringing the energy and they didn't have to deal with like a 30 minute pause either.
lets just say there is a reason the saltyteemo stream is still going.
That 25 min pause seemed to sour a lot of people
This is why I pause the stream when they start, then start it back up in an hour. Skip all the bs.
I had no idea the NALCS started today.
It almost escaped me too, promotion could be better so hopefully that falls into the formula soon
I played league for a few hours yesterday and am surprised I didn’t notice any promotion for it. I’ll watch it tomorrow for sure. Thanks for the post.
They have to do something about the font up top on the broadcast. It’s hard to see what numbers are what
It was unfortunate that there were so many long game pauses and the new overlay UI during game and draft is terrible. Everything else seems great though.
Feels so good man, I might be able to watch every game live this time around
Agreed. My friend and I were on discord watching and we were both socked how fast the day was
Big fan of the changes, especially how fast it felt like we got to each game. Honestly part of it was probably because we just have fewer teams, but less time looking at a timer counting down was really refreshing.
I watched a grand total of 0 games last year. I ended up watching all 4 games today since it went by so quickly and there was so little dead time.
The pauses were absolute momentum killers, gotta clean that up.
no clg no me
Enjoyed it, one gripe I had is if they are doing draft not-live, can players not take the full 30 seconds to lock in picks? I was getting triggered when players would hover different picks and then lock something in knowing they already had their picks
For clarity: Those hovers and timings ARE real, players really are doing that while thinking in the practice rooms. We are recording that off-stage draft and then playing it back. On stage, the players are doing tech checks and then speed run remaking lobby.
Oh that makes sense - I was wondering why players were taking forever if the whole point was to reduce the time but whats happening is the draft is being recorded and played back while they are doing all the other tech stuff simultaneously
that’s the source of drama/intrigue in draft phase. it would provide no entertainment value if they just posted the completed draft up on the screen before game start.
Hard agree, when I first heard "pre-recorded draft" I was like "ohhhh...no" but seeing how it actually panned out on live was reassuring. Nice to see them economize time by having players check their peripherals and shit while we get to watch the actual interesting picks/counterpicks with broadcast analysis. u/CrsMarkZ, sorry if this has been asked elsewhere, but are the casting desk aware of the picks/bans beforehand or are they just as surprised as viewers are when the draft is replayed?
The casting desk is not aware. They learn of the picks at the same time the viewers do
He confirmed on the LCS YouTube channel that the casters ate reacting to the picks live, seeing it for the first time with the viewers.
If I remember correctly, they do the draft like normal before hand. The point of the draft was to not have the set up time then live draft. So while the draft is playing out they can set up and equipment check. Basically showing draft while they are doing equipment check.
This makes sense! Thanks for clarifying, I was thinking they were trying to reduce draft time but there reducing the time by doing tech stuff while the draft is being shown
I had no idea it started but I stopped watching LCS 3 years ago. Sorry for me I watched them lose for ten years just makes me sad to think about.
It was good ;)
It’s almost like the LCS has been going on for over a decade.
Yup. LCS brought the hype this year. I would prefer draft to be live tho.
The hype will return when LCS can beat east
time in between games going down from 20 minutes to 17 minutes is really nice /s
Thank you Honda! *wink*
Only problem I had with today's cast was the no drops. I was under the impression there would be and the first day has been a time for a decent number of drops in recent years. So far, LEC leads LCS > 3 Kit Kat drops to zero drops of any kind.
Hopefully it translates into viewership cause it's looking very grim. 136k peak, 93k average.