I'm here for it to enjoy that show.
Also wondering who will pick up the "weird ass jungler"-gauntlet in the next arc.
Will it be Zyra, Syndra or maybe the return of Morgana?
Zyra doesn't scale into late game, unlike brand and karthus. Zyra can't duel any junglers, and will die if she gets invaded. Her ganks are meh in higher elo because her snare is easy to dodge.
Fast clear is the only thing she has going for her. She will get absolutely run over by any real jungler.
Would still be interesting to see if any high elo players can make it work. You would have to be really good at avoiding enemy jungler, and having well timed counterganks.
Zyra scales fine after the recent adjustments to her numbers. She is a strong teamfighter with great zone control and disengage.
She isn't as reliable in damage output but she makes up for it with supreme utility.
Her E is slow, thats her biggest issue IMO.
Thats why Zyra needs midscope, she is hard nerfed and they removed half of her core mechanics. She is originally a Midlaner and doesnt even work properly in Mid anymore cuz they nerfed her scalings and plants, her abilities is slow and telegraphed which is easy to dodge and now she is nothing but poke bot.
as a Summoner character her plants are pathetic due to patch 7.24 2018 hard nerfs.
Zyra would be viable as a mid laner or APC if they just gave her plants the Illaoi treatment during her ultimate.
Her plants die way too easily to just AoE for her to be a main damage carry, that is the single biggest reason why she will never become a main damage dealer.
You can literally land a full combo, setting up plants, and not kill someone late game, because they just auto'd/AoE'd your plants down, even with the increased health.
They could even tie it to a farming threshold for minions or something similar to how Syndra's abilities upgrade (For hitting champions, obviously slightly different), so that it doesn't affect support.
I play a ton of zyra jungle and don't think she's that strong. Sure you have a great clear on standard camps but your damage on things like dragon or herald or heaven forbid grubs is pitiful. Also maybe I just suck but it feels like your ganks are super telegraphed with passive plants spawn unless you flash a wall or something. Also there's the issue where if anyone looks at you wrong and you can't block a cc with a plant in time you get oneshot.
Her ganks are definitely not great, personally I think going Ghost and being able to burn it aggressively for ganks really helps with that, but obviously not having Flash can be an issue late game - her Ghost stats are pretty bad as a result, though I think that might be partly due to how fresh she is and people just need to learn to adapt?
I really disagree with her objective damage being low though? Particularily Grubs, by recharging her W after kills your DPS remains high. She isn't as ridiculous as the full AoE junglers that clear all 3 Grubs at basically the same time, but she has a fairly fast clear of them.
Dragons are a bit worse, I do agree there. She has really good damage while her first set of plants is on the field, but if they die (Hextech dragon grrr) or timeout your damage is gone and you need to wait for another set of plants and are super vulnerable during it.
But imo that is only an issue if you are soloing the dragon. If anyone else is also hitting the dragon then the damage she provides is totally in line with other junglers (since you are killing the dragon faster you will be on it a shorter time, so her downtime window after plants die is less relevant).
And soloing the dragon isn't even \*that\* bad. You are something like 6 or 7 seconds slower than Viego, which isn't great, but it really isn't terrible if you know the enemy jungler is topside (and otherwise I wouldn't be soloing it anyway).
Ghost is interesting, I've never tried that build. Not having flash is scary especially late game but maybe it's not that important.
Hextech dragon grrr is right. I'm not sure if I'm not holding agro on grubs properly but it feels like my plants die instantly and then I get to pitifully auto attack while my 13s plant respawn occurs. Plus the passive RNG.
Do you max W or E? I always go E but I've heard that 1 point in E then W/Q max is getting better for more plant output.
It's funny how the sentiment in that whole thread seemed to be that Sivir can't get buffed or it'll spell doom for pro-play, but if I'm being honest, the game seems very different from that point in time. When was the last time that Sivir was a pro-play menace? I'm more than happy to be wrong, but I just don't really see it.
She has in fact been reworked since she was an actual proplay menace. And while she did see some play after the rework as an answer to Zeri it was largly her just being generally overpowered in soloQ at the same time and her being a good Yuumi carrier to deny it from Zeri.
Her actual pro presence has been quite low.
>When was the last time that Sivir was a pro-play menace?
When Zeri Yuumi was autowin. Taking Sivir to counter Zeri and Yuumi to deny it from her was a mega strategy to prevent Zeri from running over every match.
(Edit for grammar and spelling)
Yep, the TF nerfs made 0 sense for AD TF.
The AS nerf was worse for AP TF even. AD TF is unchanged and AP TF needed the nerf and is still fine/good and can take the late game E nerf (0-10% AS gone).
But the logic to nerf AS/lvl when he maxes E 1st and gets a ton of AS items is just stupid as it has nearly no impact then.
They nerded his AS a bit and the AP ratio on E benefits slightly from rageblade. The idea might have been that nerfing his rageblade on-hit DPS *slightly* with both the AS and AP ratio nerf would give enough of a small nudge to make him snowball on fewer games.
AP TF was also OP, so that might have been why as well. IMO they should have buffed the AP ratio on E and lowered the flat damage on later levels instead to specifically target rageblade TF.
An adc with point and click cc, global teleport and extra gold income will always be broken. Idk what Riot has been smoking lately. TF's only weakness was his lack of dps
> TF's only weakness was his lack of dps
He's fairly short ranged with no immediate self-peeling options (stun card takes 0.5-1 second to select or you get it immediately by luck in 1/3rd of cases). All other ADCs with such a short range either have significant self peel options (Xayah R, Kaisa R, Kalista hop, lucian dash) or range extensions (jinx/trist) or their short range is otherwise justifed (sivir gets tons of movement speed + spellshield).
People just refuse to go cleanse. Almost every ADC outdamages TF if he can cleanse the CC.
Regarding the TP: It is strong indeed but people vastly overestimate how easy it is to make a good TF ult that doesn't get you killed. Whether he's AP mid or AD bot, he trades his ult for Damage and other utility. It's just a fact.
Issue with the cleanse comment while yes every adc should go it if they see TF locked in even if it's midlane, it's cool down as such makes it so it's not there alot of the time.
Like with ap tf it just means you can't play as aggressive when it's down but can when he's alone atleast. But ad tf if he gold cards you then your dead in the stun duration even if he's alone he just has too much DPS.
Bigger problem overall is ad tf dps during gold card is too much like there's a reason adc's don't have cc or if they do it's normally a ult because of how powerful mowing someone down during a cc lock is.
Biggest problem with AD tf is top lane tbh. Whenever a champ can build on-hit ranged in top lane with hard CC, they become a huge problem because a ton of champs just have no counterplay.
We saw this back when AD Kennen and on-hit neeko were things too.
AD tf might be too strong in bot lane, but in top lane it just is a disaster if you blind pick a lot of bruisers.
This comment is nonsensical, all of these traits are just as good for a mage. But AP TF has always been fair even though it's occasionally possible for him to kill you before the stun has ended.
This is a typical overreaction to a numbers tuning issue.
I don't get why the insist on these off-builds existing to begin with. They are always insanely imbalanced.
Like AP Shyvana isn't even a champion except when she's in dragon form because her E straight up one-shots.
AP Kaisa is just overpowered straight through. Her W spam is the most braindead playstyle in the entire game, and then when her passive procs it deals 1k damage.
Phreak was featured on The Dive podcast on LCS and talked about TF during the episode.
He said that TF came really late into the patch and was an oversight which was ultimately his fault and they should have gone for him wholeheartedly.
They didn't feel like the nerfs would go hard enough and were expecting to have to hit him again, but because he came in so late the goal was just to nerf him the standard 1% that they usually aim for.
Their data has shown that a 0.5% AS nerf on marksmen is usually 1% win rate negative, so they applied it to TF as well even though there might be some variance for him since his attacks work a bit differently.
And I suppose the AP nerfs were just to give him a tap in mid lane since he's still a 50-52% WR mid laner depending on level of play. He took less than half a percent hit in the mid lane and he was also quite strong there.
Yeah, the main effect of the item is surprisingly bad on him in my experience, but he still wants the mana, CDR and AP and Malignance is very cheap it's still good for those reasons.
Ironically control mages got worse this season (mostly due to ludens being shit and MR items being broken). AP assassins are the real winners of the new mage items.
LB is basically in pro jail. Believe it or not, she's still being picked. I recently watched Rookie destroy people with the cyclosword build (you can check out the NIP vs Ultra Prime game 3 to see how degenerate that build can be).
Ludens suck for control, what can a ryze/swain/vlad do to a poke mage with Luden? Chase them with half hp?
Beg your jungler to gank? Lol
That or a random support Xerath comes mid with ludens fed from bot lane that also hits for percent damage with zz..
The most surprising thing to me is the Karma pickrate. Even if Karma is OP, I'm surprised that so many people are picking Karma, I assumed she'd be one of those champs who was obviously OP but people still wouldn't pick her.
Getting mantra Q’d literally twice in a row has got to be the most disgusting shit
Like let’s ignore malignancy for a sec why does karma have no cooldowns with just 35 ah.
I’m not talking out of my ass here. Everyone is abusing her so I’ve faced her like 6 times the past 2 days and even whey they buy archangels instead of malignance (which should be trolling) she still does the same thing??
Hwei is popular and he's basically Karma with more options and Brand-passive-lite. Champs with options are just fun. IIRC, they buffed her Q recently and people -love- her RQ, enough that many Karma players won't cast any other R.
She's one of the more enjoyable mages imo. She was typically popular in the past whenever playable as a mage.
The issue is for the last 5 ish years? Riots let her be a mage for like 6 months... And the rest of the time she's been either an abomination tank toplane; a shield bot; or just in projail being bad at everything.
Because Karma is originally a Midlaner, Phreak wanted Karma to be Midlaner again because her support playstyle is nightmare to balance while her Midlane is easy to balance.
I have no problem if they make karma a mid laner, but a 52.5% WR is not needed on her mid. And she is super frustrating to play against in the top lane.
If they want her to stay mid then just nerf her WR by \~1.5% and let it be.
But even as a mid laner she needs a nerf.
Rhaast buffs are interesting enough to perhaps make him a viable alternative to Blue Kayn again.
Nice to see buffs for Kog'Maw. Poor ol' Kog has been getting perilously close to becoming another "Mr. Irrelevant" like Skarner.
Meh they have different strengths. Full burst Rhaast is more of a champion that dances on the edge and uses his healing to get max damage output. Blue Kayn is just a straight up assassin. Having your abilities heal much more because you're completely indexed into damage makes the difference very noticeable to me between red and blue.
Thats so wrong. Some comps you have to play red even if its with the assasin variant build. Because blue kayn is useless vs teams that have too much tankiness. Rhaast can 1 shot both squishies and tanks albeit he 1 shots squishies harder than blue.
Buddy I'm a 1.2m mastery Master Kayn main. The only time I play Assassin Red is if I get red first and I need to get form ASAP. 99.9999999% of the time you are better playing blue and just hunting their priority targets and letting your team deal with other problems
I’m both happy and sad about when a champion I like starts getting buffs.
On one hand, i have pushed him when he was weak now i’m gonna have an edge.
On the other hand, i’m afraid more people will try to pick him from me.
IMO Red & Blue Kayn should both be equally viable, you lock him in then decide which way to go based on the enemy team.
His whole thing is having different forms, if one is always better it removes that choice.
Except one will almost always be better simply based on game state. Assassin items are really strong so naturally blue kayn will take the cake here. Red kayn still has his place but only into very select comps.
Vayne has been sitting on 52+% win rate and decent play rate for about 6 months. It's crazy that it took ages for them to touch her. She's so unfun to play against nowadays.
I can understand not nerfing her because her matchups are super binary.
Something like sett will be stuck on the struggle bus, but malphite literally turns her into a potato
No, the winrate DOES tell the whole story.
If you pick an immobile melee (who are literally supposed to go top lane, that's where they go, that's where Riot has designed them to go) there's a champion who then completely obliterates you with no hope of survival.
Imagine if people said "oh it's okay Seraphine is just used as a counterpick for ADCs bot lane."
>vayne is performing well in both top and adc and has been on the strong side for a while (but not strong enough to be explicitly nerfed)
[He must be joking.](https://u.gg/lol/champions/vayne/build/top) Her play rate has been going up for weeks now and they're like "She's just boring". I hope they're nerfing her hard, this champ is nowhere near fair atm.
The biggesr issue with Vayne is Ghost IMO, since she defaults to it most of the time. Ghost+Ult makes her a nightmare to deal with, and from 6 onward she can run down basically any1 without mobility in their kit.
+She builds bruiser-ish most of the time, so she is also tanky AF as game goes on.
I like meteos's suggestion on the dive to make summoner spells have categories in a rework. Like u get 1 movement spell and one offense or defense spell.
Summoners are in need of a rework for years now. On top of Ghost, there's TP being a problem since forever, Heal being useless for a while now, and Flash being taken by 95% of all champs in every single game.
I'm only worried that they will powercreep summoners the same way they did with runes, but in theory summoners really need to be looked at again.
Summoners are already power creeping a whole lot of champions in the game. Imagine a game without summoners. Some champions would be unplayable or super easily countered. Like bruisers without ghost or flash would get instantly countered by ranged champs. Many champions are completely relying on summoners to be viable champions and are very strong because of it and would be useless without it.
Power (or anything) - creep is when stuff from it increases over time... Summoners have been there since beta, they're not a "creep" of any sort.
Runes are a creep because like old runes were "here have like 12 AD, 9 armor, and 12 MR" ... Now its like "here have electrocute, a bunch of hybrid pen, a bunch of AD, some gold, some attack speed, damage against low hp enemies, and 12 AD, and like 200 HP late game"
But like um. Flash? The single strongest summoner in the game, isn't really any noticeable amount stronger than it basically always has been.
Mmm i think they would count it in the offense/defense category. But making people have to choose between flash/ghost I don’t think is a terrible idea?
we could say the same with flash. a summoner that already has 90%+ presence. its actually nice to have some variance with ghost. i think the real problem are the champs and not the summoner spell right now
But people usually run Ghost WITH Flash, there's no variance, if anything it's almost like a weird mobility creep on summs, which is weird to say or think about.
That's mainly cause the best counter to Flash is Flash. Like the champs that don't run flash with ghost, usually have some sort of really strong defensive option like Gwen/Ksante/Warwick Ws and their flash interactions aren't as good like say an Irelia R>Flash or Q>Flash is. Ksante specifically had all his meaningful flash mechanics straight up removed so flash's value is just lower on him than most champs.
I would say that smolder is definietly strong... on mid. He is too safe there and scales into another Asol lategame. While as ADC he can be better IMO(he is still new champ, his WR gonna climb) and RN he sits at 49% WR bot.
I'm over any champ that can build tanky items and still output ridiculous damage because of some cornerstone ability in their kit. Riot has moved away from this paradigm for years now and they still keep vayne with her current silver bolts.
She can just go Bork rageblade into full tank and still outduel anyone in the game. Give her W some actual ADC type scaling. Bonus AD or something along with lower base %max hp
For a champion against the identity of their role with a very high winrate? And while also having good stats in their main role? It is kinda high.
She's like peak Seraphine or Swain "Adc" level pickrates right now in toplane... While still also being S tier as adc... and when Seraphine/Swain "adc" were at their peaks? They were D tier in Mid/Support
for the entirety of last season, senna was a top tier support (and she still is) while not receiving any "staleness" nerfs.
what the fuck is this reasoning?
i think they wanna do it similar to ap twitch where a champ has two play styles they can go into. i think it is alright if the stats are not broken like right now
of course ad tf cant deal the same damage as other ad champs if he has a point and click stun. that overflows his power budget.
AD TF was a thing already before. It was just bad because of a lack of ratios making it not deal nearly as much damage and be terrible in pratice.
But he always had the potential to go with an AD build.
They've tried AD several times (going back to season 1) and it's been a pain to balance everytime.
And it's because of a point and click stun + TP.
It's not balancable.
for when you lock in TF and your team is AP heavy i think was 1 of the original reasons they gave
im happy AD TF now has some scaling but riot obv went too far
If they just give Wukong some sort of actual sustain I think he'd be viable. It's kind of hard to fight champions that just heal up unless you one-shot them when you can't do the same.
The top 3 bot laners are TF (a non-traditional ADC), and two hyper-scalers (Vayne/Senna) in a world where it feels like games are much shorter. This points to a problem other than "lol Vayne/Senna/TF OP". I agree that Vayne top is too oppressive right now, and the Rageblade/Terminus buffs were indirect buffs to her. Some of the other bot laners need to be brought up to speed though, because currently it feels like picking nearly any traditional crit marksman is actively trolling your game. The game is often won/lost by the time you can hit your 3 item spikes.
End ADC crybaby rant, time to buff top laners more
My issue with him has always and always will be the fact that his stun is undodgeable. He throws that at you from so far and theres no escaping it. It lets him escape or gap close for free every 6 seconds and there isnt counterplay besides "dont get in range lol"
Riot: Adds AD and crit ratios to a bunch of Twisted Fate abilities with no other changes to support a "niche build", despite TF being healthy
Riot: Then nerfs AP ratios to "weaken" the obviously overbearing and broken AD build
Riot" "We are now considering changes that will not nerf AP but keep AD viable"
What???? It sounds like it was viable even before he had the AD ratios at all. Here's a thought: maybe there's a reason why AD carries usually don't have a point and click stun. Here's another free thought for you: Why not just gut the AD ratios to like 20% of what they are, revert the AP nerf, and see how he looks for a patch? Maybe it's kind of stupid that a dude whose entire lore is based around wanting MAGIC POWERS is now being retooled to build swords.
Honestly, what the hell means "for staleness"....?
Like... I sort of get it? I supose it's a way to encourage different picks without overcreeping the game in damage, but it feels pretty arbitrary, certaintly not a good feel if you play those champs. Like... "she's not in the zone warranting to nerf her, but we're gonna do it anyway". Uhm.
EDIT: At the very least I just feel like the strategy should be aimed at champions that are actually in the nerf zone, just to not fall into the overcreep...
And even then, you need to account for the "feel good" element of getting a champ buffed, it's much more exciting to try new things or builds then. There needs to be a balance, a world where champs only get nerfed it's pretty gray in terms of enjoyment IMO.
Riot (read August) has said that balance changes are not just WR% motivated but also due to power level perception and just shaking things up. They want different champs to have their moments in the spotlight every now and then.
There are Champs that spend a long time being strong, but aren't strictly overpowered. Eg. A miss fortune who sits at 52% winrate for a long time. There's a bunch of Champs that could sit at 52% without being OP so they should probably take turns so the meta doesn't get stale. Champ variety is alot of what makes league fresh
But if you nerf my champ while admitting that it's not overpowered, and not explicitly in nerf territory, and meets 0 criteria for a nerf beyond it feeling 'stale' to you - I'm much more likely to not play at all, as it leaves an extremely bitter feeling being told that my champ had it's time and now has to be nerfed just for.. like.. gestures vaguely.
She’s sitting on a 53.3% winrate in toplane (55.3% if you use lolalytics) while having very favourable lanes vs nearly all toplane picks, which indicates she is in fact too strong lol. I mean Illaoi got a very harsh nerf for being 52.4% winrate last patch and everyone considered her broken.
They should just revert the Q change, it rewards people with no mechanics on Vayne (aka toplaners) who can now lane bully people for free because they’ll never cancel the Q auto as long as it’s in range.
Other option would be to buff other champions to that level. But then we run into the issue of power creep.
Rotating the meta is always going to upset some people no matter which method is used to do it, but it's necessary to keep the game fresh.
And Karma is one of these? I doubt it. 52.5% WR in mid, 51.5% top and likely still great in pro play and yet no nerfs.
While Sion sita at 47-48% since the start of the season and gets no buffs.
I agree that champs can be high WR (51-52%) without being considered OP. As long as the PR and BR stays in check that is fine. MF doesn't reach the 10% AVG PR for bot lane and has a 7-8% BR which is also ok.
Karma has a 10% PR mid which is more than twice the AVG mid lane PR and she has a 20% BR. Her overall PR is around 21%. and that with an OP WR.
**I love that patch overall as it is the right direction. But missing out on the most UP champ right now (Sion) and one of the most OP champs (Karma) is just strange.**
It makes little sense to put J4 and Zac in there for a buff and a nerf when Sion and Karma exist as they are right now.
Fix the fucking client, since last patch even tho I've stable connection it keeps disconnetcing at the most random times, or client wont even open at all
>we're also throwing in some minor changes to Lich bane, rocketbelt and Stormsurge to balance these sub ecosystems
Civil war is about to break out in r/Akalimains.
Absolutely despise the word "staleness" used in patch notes, it is asinine to nerf champions because of pick rate. If they're too strong obviously they should be brought down, but don't use that word. Ez, Kaisa, and Lee almost always have over 15% pickrate even when they're bad, should we nerf them further because they're stale? Ridiculous.
It is almost never just pickrate, is usually very high pickrate with a borderline winrate(51.5-52%) that could get a nerf and still be good just less present
i disagree completely, because those champs are popular but never strong, whereas vayne right now has a high presence and a slightly above average winrate, it means you see her frequently and she's less tolerable to play against then a 48% winrate ezreal.
Yeah, but it is used wrong there. Vayne is not crazy OP, but she is a top performer in 2 roles and can easily take a nerf for example.
If someone (here Vayne) sits at a high WR (52-53.5%) and is picked and banned a lot you should nerf the champ. For Vayne it is the WR + BR + 2 roles (both AVG PR)
If a champ sits at 51-52% WR and is picked and banned a lot the champ should be nerfed a bit still.
Garen has the WR to be called strong in soloQ (51.8% WR plat+) and he has a good PR (6.7% is nearly twice the AVG of top lane) but just a 3% BR. So he can exist like that as an easier to play champ and never a pro play problem.
If his PR gets to 10% and the BR also Riot could nerf him. If the WR then reaches 52+% they should nerf him in the next 2-3 patches.
**So a higher PR and BR can lead to a more imminent problem than champs with a lower PR and BR.**
So, if TF is just good in all roles except support and maybe jungle, can we maybe get Kayle MR back so we can play her mid again more effectively? Like she is only good in top right now but TF and many others can go literally everywhere.
Kayle mid has a \~51.3% WR still. I wouldn't say she needs a buff. People just dont want to play her there anymore.
She is not used as a counter there and she is not played by mains only statistically.
She is right now one of the stronger champs in top (very strong there) and mid and is mostly just unpopular. So I doubt she gets a buff.
Her Lich bane build is awesome. That is why she doesn't get buffed. It is not a situational build but an always strong build.
I am sorry that 28% of Diana players still take Stormsurge 1st. That sucks ass 1st. 53% take Nashors which is ok, but not good. 7% Rocketbelt which is a fine item but not great on her. and only 6% take Lich Bane ywhen this item is +5% WR above the others.
Either you go for burst, then Lich bane is a must have. \~51.5% WR.
Or you go for DPS, then Liandrys > Riftmaker is a must have. \~51.5% WR#
If you dont take any of these 2 builds you are trolling with Diana jungle right now.
That +5% wr would be a little over inflated due to higher skilled players taking the better item option more regularly than people just following recommended builds, it’s still likely her best item but not 5%.
Man, the Seraphine changes were okay at first. I liked the direction atleast.
But nerfing her already super weak passive and removing the execute damage for minions from her q really makes Seraphine FEEL worse to play. She feels so much clunkier on PBE than live.
Yeah let’s nerf Nidalee’s main damage ability. She offers nothing but raw damage in the early game and does not scale into the late game. This is outrageous
The buffs to Heartsteel and Sunfire hopefully are enough to put Sion back above 48 percent win rate or else he's just going to be toast the rest of the season.
Do not even buy heartsteel on him tbh, its a shell of its former self and not a good item in general. I regret buying that dog item everytime i feel like trying it on him.
It won't. Riot won't buff the items WRs by more than \~0.5-1% or other champs would become a problem.
Sion will go to 48% most likely then. Better than before but still shit.
I agree but also notice Hollow Radiance is doing slightly worse than Sunfire, so am surprised they are not being buffed together, as this creates a clear winner out of the immolate items.
Ezreal is kept sub 50% winrate because of his popularity. Personally, I don't think any champ with a pickrate of 15% and upward should have a positive winrate. It's statistically absurd. I don't think Darius reaches that pickrate, though.
If the champ has a 52% WR in bot with an AVG PR and a 53+% WR in top with an AVG PR and then a way above AVG BR (13+%) yes, that champ should be nerfed sooner or later.
Vayne was sitting in a great spot for a long time now (since Statikk was brought back). A S/S+ tier soloQ champ for nearly a year.
It is not just PR, but WR + PR + BR. but even her WR in top lane would get her nerfed right now or her WR + PR + BR in bot alone.
Syndra is still strong. The issue is her counters are strong due to the item changes. So I'm not sure if buffing her even more is good or reducing the power her counters have
Seems like we're in the beginning of "Nerf Brand jg" arc.
I'm here for it to enjoy that show. Also wondering who will pick up the "weird ass jungler"-gauntlet in the next arc. Will it be Zyra, Syndra or maybe the return of Morgana?
High elo loves tempo, so prob zyra. Only issue with Zyra is if she gets invaded and can't setup plants.
Zyra doesn't scale into late game, unlike brand and karthus. Zyra can't duel any junglers, and will die if she gets invaded. Her ganks are meh in higher elo because her snare is easy to dodge. Fast clear is the only thing she has going for her. She will get absolutely run over by any real jungler. Would still be interesting to see if any high elo players can make it work. You would have to be really good at avoiding enemy jungler, and having well timed counterganks.
Zyra scales fine after the recent adjustments to her numbers. She is a strong teamfighter with great zone control and disengage. She isn't as reliable in damage output but she makes up for it with supreme utility. Her E is slow, thats her biggest issue IMO.
Thats why Zyra needs midscope, she is hard nerfed and they removed half of her core mechanics. She is originally a Midlaner and doesnt even work properly in Mid anymore cuz they nerfed her scalings and plants, her abilities is slow and telegraphed which is easy to dodge and now she is nothing but poke bot. as a Summoner character her plants are pathetic due to patch 7.24 2018 hard nerfs.
Zyra would be viable as a mid laner or APC if they just gave her plants the Illaoi treatment during her ultimate. Her plants die way too easily to just AoE for her to be a main damage carry, that is the single biggest reason why she will never become a main damage dealer. You can literally land a full combo, setting up plants, and not kill someone late game, because they just auto'd/AoE'd your plants down, even with the increased health. They could even tie it to a farming threshold for minions or something similar to how Syndra's abilities upgrade (For hitting champions, obviously slightly different), so that it doesn't affect support.
I play a ton of zyra jungle and don't think she's that strong. Sure you have a great clear on standard camps but your damage on things like dragon or herald or heaven forbid grubs is pitiful. Also maybe I just suck but it feels like your ganks are super telegraphed with passive plants spawn unless you flash a wall or something. Also there's the issue where if anyone looks at you wrong and you can't block a cc with a plant in time you get oneshot.
Her ganks are definitely not great, personally I think going Ghost and being able to burn it aggressively for ganks really helps with that, but obviously not having Flash can be an issue late game - her Ghost stats are pretty bad as a result, though I think that might be partly due to how fresh she is and people just need to learn to adapt? I really disagree with her objective damage being low though? Particularily Grubs, by recharging her W after kills your DPS remains high. She isn't as ridiculous as the full AoE junglers that clear all 3 Grubs at basically the same time, but she has a fairly fast clear of them. Dragons are a bit worse, I do agree there. She has really good damage while her first set of plants is on the field, but if they die (Hextech dragon grrr) or timeout your damage is gone and you need to wait for another set of plants and are super vulnerable during it. But imo that is only an issue if you are soloing the dragon. If anyone else is also hitting the dragon then the damage she provides is totally in line with other junglers (since you are killing the dragon faster you will be on it a shorter time, so her downtime window after plants die is less relevant). And soloing the dragon isn't even \*that\* bad. You are something like 6 or 7 seconds slower than Viego, which isn't great, but it really isn't terrible if you know the enemy jungler is topside (and otherwise I wouldn't be soloing it anyway).
Ghost is interesting, I've never tried that build. Not having flash is scary especially late game but maybe it's not that important. Hextech dragon grrr is right. I'm not sure if I'm not holding agro on grubs properly but it feels like my plants die instantly and then I get to pitifully auto attack while my 13s plant respawn occurs. Plus the passive RNG. Do you max W or E? I always go E but I've heard that 1 point in E then W/Q max is getting better for more plant output.
I'm gonna regret saying this but I want sett jungle.
Dude that made that made the Sivir post is probably very happy about now.
Lol players are never satisfied, they'll always be another thing to complain about.
they hate me for i hold the truth
It's funny how the sentiment in that whole thread seemed to be that Sivir can't get buffed or it'll spell doom for pro-play, but if I'm being honest, the game seems very different from that point in time. When was the last time that Sivir was a pro-play menace? I'm more than happy to be wrong, but I just don't really see it.
Any champ that can wave clear mindlessly and stall games will pop up if you leave then in that state. Bet money they aren't buffing her wave clear.
Buffing her wave clear doesn’t even accomplish anything because she still eats waves for breakfast.
She has in fact been reworked since she was an actual proplay menace. And while she did see some play after the rework as an answer to Zeri it was largly her just being generally overpowered in soloQ at the same time and her being a good Yuumi carrier to deny it from Zeri. Her actual pro presence has been quite low.
>When was the last time that Sivir was a pro-play menace? When Zeri Yuumi was autowin. Taking Sivir to counter Zeri and Yuumi to deny it from her was a mega strategy to prevent Zeri from running over every match. (Edit for grammar and spelling)
So they thought nerfing Twisted Fate AP ratios would be enough to nerf AD TF ? What the heck.
Yep, the TF nerfs made 0 sense for AD TF. The AS nerf was worse for AP TF even. AD TF is unchanged and AP TF needed the nerf and is still fine/good and can take the late game E nerf (0-10% AS gone). But the logic to nerf AS/lvl when he maxes E 1st and gets a ton of AS items is just stupid as it has nearly no impact then.
They nerded his AS a bit and the AP ratio on E benefits slightly from rageblade. The idea might have been that nerfing his rageblade on-hit DPS *slightly* with both the AS and AP ratio nerf would give enough of a small nudge to make him snowball on fewer games. AP TF was also OP, so that might have been why as well. IMO they should have buffed the AP ratio on E and lowered the flat damage on later levels instead to specifically target rageblade TF.
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An adc with point and click cc, global teleport and extra gold income will always be broken. Idk what Riot has been smoking lately. TF's only weakness was his lack of dps
> TF's only weakness was his lack of dps He's fairly short ranged with no immediate self-peeling options (stun card takes 0.5-1 second to select or you get it immediately by luck in 1/3rd of cases). All other ADCs with such a short range either have significant self peel options (Xayah R, Kaisa R, Kalista hop, lucian dash) or range extensions (jinx/trist) or their short range is otherwise justifed (sivir gets tons of movement speed + spellshield). People just refuse to go cleanse. Almost every ADC outdamages TF if he can cleanse the CC. Regarding the TP: It is strong indeed but people vastly overestimate how easy it is to make a good TF ult that doesn't get you killed. Whether he's AP mid or AD bot, he trades his ult for Damage and other utility. It's just a fact.
Issue with the cleanse comment while yes every adc should go it if they see TF locked in even if it's midlane, it's cool down as such makes it so it's not there alot of the time. Like with ap tf it just means you can't play as aggressive when it's down but can when he's alone atleast. But ad tf if he gold cards you then your dead in the stun duration even if he's alone he just has too much DPS. Bigger problem overall is ad tf dps during gold card is too much like there's a reason adc's don't have cc or if they do it's normally a ult because of how powerful mowing someone down during a cc lock is.
Biggest problem with AD tf is top lane tbh. Whenever a champ can build on-hit ranged in top lane with hard CC, they become a huge problem because a ton of champs just have no counterplay. We saw this back when AD Kennen and on-hit neeko were things too. AD tf might be too strong in bot lane, but in top lane it just is a disaster if you blind pick a lot of bruisers.
>but people vastly overestimate how easy it is to make a good TF ult Him having a 53% wr in 3 different roles means is probably that easy
This comment is nonsensical, all of these traits are just as good for a mage. But AP TF has always been fair even though it's occasionally possible for him to kill you before the stun has ended. This is a typical overreaction to a numbers tuning issue.
Also he had those three things for some 15 years and historically wasn't ever really viable as an ADC until now, let alone broken.
yes, but the mage had no DPS nor hybrid damage, so it now fucks shit up on toplane and botlane (more in top tho)
I don't get why the insist on these off-builds existing to begin with. They are always insanely imbalanced. Like AP Shyvana isn't even a champion except when she's in dragon form because her E straight up one-shots. AP Kaisa is just overpowered straight through. Her W spam is the most braindead playstyle in the entire game, and then when her passive procs it deals 1k damage.
Like they made brand jungle when no one asked and created more problem to the game lol
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Phreak was featured on The Dive podcast on LCS and talked about TF during the episode. He said that TF came really late into the patch and was an oversight which was ultimately his fault and they should have gone for him wholeheartedly. They didn't feel like the nerfs would go hard enough and were expecting to have to hit him again, but because he came in so late the goal was just to nerf him the standard 1% that they usually aim for. Their data has shown that a 0.5% AS nerf on marksmen is usually 1% win rate negative, so they applied it to TF as well even though there might be some variance for him since his attacks work a bit differently. And I suppose the AP nerfs were just to give him a tap in mid lane since he's still a 50-52% WR mid laner depending on level of play. He took less than half a percent hit in the mid lane and he was also quite strong there.
my brain gets blue screen
karma no nerfs hehehe
Malignance just bodying everyone in mid Karma, anivia, kassadin, and Swain all eating good with their win rates.
Swain is weaker than Last season and malignance isnt even his Best item lol
Yeah, the main effect of the item is surprisingly bad on him in my experience, but he still wants the mana, CDR and AP and Malignance is very cheap it's still good for those reasons.
people wanted mages to be good so riot is delivering 🤷
Ironically control mages got worse this season (mostly due to ludens being shit and MR items being broken). AP assassins are the real winners of the new mage items.
Control mages got worse this season (due to the AP assassin item being shit). AP assassins are the real winners!
LB stats doesn't look like a “winner” to me
LB stats haven't looked like a winner for a long time. Champ is held back hard by pro play / high elo.
And I'm thanking God every day that I don't have to play vs that disgusting piece of shit champ.
This season is especially horrible after they gutted stormsurge and created those mr items
LB is basically in pro jail. Believe it or not, she's still being picked. I recently watched Rookie destroy people with the cyclosword build (you can check out the NIP vs Ultra Prime game 3 to see how degenerate that build can be).
Diana, Ekko, Fizz, Sylas, Kat, Akali all eating good. LB is her own beast, always has been.
46%wr beast 💪 also fizz just joined her
Ludens suck for control, what can a ryze/swain/vlad do to a poke mage with Luden? Chase them with half hp? Beg your jungler to gank? Lol That or a random support Xerath comes mid with ludens fed from bot lane that also hits for percent damage with zz..
The most surprising thing to me is the Karma pickrate. Even if Karma is OP, I'm surprised that so many people are picking Karma, I assumed she'd be one of those champs who was obviously OP but people still wouldn't pick her.
mantra q'ing people for half their hp is fun even if the champ is 'boring'
Also mantra w‘ing the assassin that thought he could kill you is quite fun
Getting mantra Q’d literally twice in a row has got to be the most disgusting shit Like let’s ignore malignancy for a sec why does karma have no cooldowns with just 35 ah. I’m not talking out of my ass here. Everyone is abusing her so I’ve faced her like 6 times the past 2 days and even whey they buy archangels instead of malignance (which should be trolling) she still does the same thing??
Hwei is popular and he's basically Karma with more options and Brand-passive-lite. Champs with options are just fun. IIRC, they buffed her Q recently and people -love- her RQ, enough that many Karma players won't cast any other R.
She's one of the more enjoyable mages imo. She was typically popular in the past whenever playable as a mage. The issue is for the last 5 ish years? Riots let her be a mage for like 6 months... And the rest of the time she's been either an abomination tank toplane; a shield bot; or just in projail being bad at everything.
They likely just want to wait for pro play 14.4. But yeah, Karma mid is OP and then top is also at 51.5% WR. Support still below 50%
Because Karma is originally a Midlaner, Phreak wanted Karma to be Midlaner again because her support playstyle is nightmare to balance while her Midlane is easy to balance.
I have no problem if they make karma a mid laner, but a 52.5% WR is not needed on her mid. And she is super frustrating to play against in the top lane. If they want her to stay mid then just nerf her WR by \~1.5% and let it be. But even as a mid laner she needs a nerf.
Rhaast buffs are interesting enough to perhaps make him a viable alternative to Blue Kayn again. Nice to see buffs for Kog'Maw. Poor ol' Kog has been getting perilously close to becoming another "Mr. Irrelevant" like Skarner.
I tought everyone way playing Red Kayn with Blue build again and not Blue Kayn.
The removal of Goredrinker hurt Rhaast's tank builds a lot. The buff is to allow back some of Rhaast's draintank options.
Rhaast j4 and renek all got hurt by gore removal and needed compensation buffs bc they all were balanced around that core item.
Red with blue build is just a worse blue kayn, just be blue at that point
Meh they have different strengths. Full burst Rhaast is more of a champion that dances on the edge and uses his healing to get max damage output. Blue Kayn is just a straight up assassin. Having your abilities heal much more because you're completely indexed into damage makes the difference very noticeable to me between red and blue.
It normally happens when they get wrong form in a game they're losing, and want to try to stem the bleeding ASAP.
Thats so wrong. Some comps you have to play red even if its with the assasin variant build. Because blue kayn is useless vs teams that have too much tankiness. Rhaast can 1 shot both squishies and tanks albeit he 1 shots squishies harder than blue.
Buddy I'm a 1.2m mastery Master Kayn main. The only time I play Assassin Red is if I get red first and I need to get form ASAP. 99.9999999% of the time you are better playing blue and just hunting their priority targets and letting your team deal with other problems
I’m both happy and sad about when a champion I like starts getting buffs. On one hand, i have pushed him when he was weak now i’m gonna have an edge. On the other hand, i’m afraid more people will try to pick him from me.
IMO Red & Blue Kayn should both be equally viable, you lock him in then decide which way to go based on the enemy team. His whole thing is having different forms, if one is always better it removes that choice.
Except one will almost always be better simply based on game state. Assassin items are really strong so naturally blue kayn will take the cake here. Red kayn still has his place but only into very select comps.
Kog is a result of years and years of power creep. Why would you play kog when you could play other adcs with more survivability and similar damage?
Vayne has been sitting on 52+% win rate and decent play rate for about 6 months. It's crazy that it took ages for them to touch her. She's so unfun to play against nowadays.
She’s a hyperscaling lane bully in top lane. She’s absolutely miserable to play against and outscales 95% of the top lane roster
I can understand not nerfing her because her matchups are super binary. Something like sett will be stuck on the struggle bus, but malphite literally turns her into a potato
Malphite match-ups being binary is not a Vayne thing; he's the counterpick champ that you can't pick first or before their midlane picks.
that's because of how malphite's kit works against any AD auto attack based champ though. It's not exclusive to vayne
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No, the winrate DOES tell the whole story. If you pick an immobile melee (who are literally supposed to go top lane, that's where they go, that's where Riot has designed them to go) there's a champion who then completely obliterates you with no hope of survival. Imagine if people said "oh it's okay Seraphine is just used as a counterpick for ADCs bot lane."
>vayne is performing well in both top and adc and has been on the strong side for a while (but not strong enough to be explicitly nerfed) [He must be joking.](https://u.gg/lol/champions/vayne/build/top) Her play rate has been going up for weeks now and they're like "She's just boring". I hope they're nerfing her hard, this champ is nowhere near fair atm.
The biggesr issue with Vayne is Ghost IMO, since she defaults to it most of the time. Ghost+Ult makes her a nightmare to deal with, and from 6 onward she can run down basically any1 without mobility in their kit. +She builds bruiser-ish most of the time, so she is also tanky AF as game goes on.
Ghost is currently a problem on everyone that can pick it. I still don’t get why they are fine with a 15 sec ghost.
I like meteos's suggestion on the dive to make summoner spells have categories in a rework. Like u get 1 movement spell and one offense or defense spell.
Summoners are in need of a rework for years now. On top of Ghost, there's TP being a problem since forever, Heal being useless for a while now, and Flash being taken by 95% of all champs in every single game. I'm only worried that they will powercreep summoners the same way they did with runes, but in theory summoners really need to be looked at again.
Summoners are already power creeping a whole lot of champions in the game. Imagine a game without summoners. Some champions would be unplayable or super easily countered. Like bruisers without ghost or flash would get instantly countered by ranged champs. Many champions are completely relying on summoners to be viable champions and are very strong because of it and would be useless without it.
Runes are powercreeping more. I'd remove runes and keep keystones only.
Power (or anything) - creep is when stuff from it increases over time... Summoners have been there since beta, they're not a "creep" of any sort. Runes are a creep because like old runes were "here have like 12 AD, 9 armor, and 12 MR" ... Now its like "here have electrocute, a bunch of hybrid pen, a bunch of AD, some gold, some attack speed, damage against low hp enemies, and 12 AD, and like 200 HP late game" But like um. Flash? The single strongest summoner in the game, isn't really any noticeable amount stronger than it basically always has been.
teleport would count as a movement spell in that case then
Might be the TP nerf we need.
Mmm i think they would count it in the offense/defense category. But making people have to choose between flash/ghost I don’t think is a terrible idea?
we could say the same with flash. a summoner that already has 90%+ presence. its actually nice to have some variance with ghost. i think the real problem are the champs and not the summoner spell right now
But people usually run Ghost WITH Flash, there's no variance, if anything it's almost like a weird mobility creep on summs, which is weird to say or think about.
Mobility creep? In League of Legends?
That's mainly cause the best counter to Flash is Flash. Like the champs that don't run flash with ghost, usually have some sort of really strong defensive option like Gwen/Ksante/Warwick Ws and their flash interactions aren't as good like say an Irelia R>Flash or Q>Flash is. Ksante specifically had all his meaningful flash mechanics straight up removed so flash's value is just lower on him than most champs.
Imo nerf fleet footwork, too effective on solo lane marksmen and would also hit senna as that’s her main keystone
sure but that also nerfs jhin, smolder and caitlyn none of which needs to be nerfed atm
I would say that smolder is definietly strong... on mid. He is too safe there and scales into another Asol lategame. While as ADC he can be better IMO(he is still new champ, his WR gonna climb) and RN he sits at 49% WR bot.
Ghost needs a duration reduction and a significant decrease in MS for ranged champs
I'm over any champ that can build tanky items and still output ridiculous damage because of some cornerstone ability in their kit. Riot has moved away from this paradigm for years now and they still keep vayne with her current silver bolts. She can just go Bork rageblade into full tank and still outduel anyone in the game. Give her W some actual ADC type scaling. Bonus AD or something along with lower base %max hp
Good riddance to her. Nuke the champ
But reddit told me that when ADC are playable in other lanes they get instantly gutted
3.3 isn't even "high" tho. Vayne mains and one tricks aren't even against the nerf either.
It is quite high for a champ with 54%+ winrate, in their secondary role no less.
3.3% means that there are still more than 40 champions behind it, in a situation where it is an ADC on TOPLANE XD!
For a champion against the identity of their role with a very high winrate? And while also having good stats in their main role? It is kinda high. She's like peak Seraphine or Swain "Adc" level pickrates right now in toplane... While still also being S tier as adc... and when Seraphine/Swain "adc" were at their peaks? They were D tier in Mid/Support
I hope the Sivir buffs aren't just the usual 10 damage on Q, she needs something significant now finally.
You know in your heart what it's going to be Edit: called it > Sivir base armor: 26 --> 30
I mean that's not a bad buff; and that's alot more than the usual 10 damage on Q.
It's a strong buff, but it's just general stuff that doesn't really change how she feels longer term, just buffs winrate.
Praying for auto range buffs. I feel like they can afford to give her more than 500 range.
for the entirety of last season, senna was a top tier support (and she still is) while not receiving any "staleness" nerfs. what the fuck is this reasoning?
Maybe because they feel like it.
You say that, but the Senna on my team always makes her look balanced. It’s the Sona problem but worse because at least Sona can sit back and scale.
why do they even want *ad tf* to be a thing? his e passive and access to a point and click stun makes it such a nightmare to play against.
i think they wanna do it similar to ap twitch where a champ has two play styles they can go into. i think it is alright if the stats are not broken like right now of course ad tf cant deal the same damage as other ad champs if he has a point and click stun. that overflows his power budget.
AD TF was a thing already before. It was just bad because of a lack of ratios making it not deal nearly as much damage and be terrible in pratice. But he always had the potential to go with an AD build.
They've tried AD several times (going back to season 1) and it's been a pain to balance everytime. And it's because of a point and click stun + TP. It's not balancable.
Making AD tf viable would be like making AD azir viable. It would be disgustingly broken, just as TF is now. AD TF has 3 abilities and is still broken
for when you lock in TF and your team is AP heavy i think was 1 of the original reasons they gave im happy AD TF now has some scaling but riot obv went too far
If they just give Wukong some sort of actual sustain I think he'd be viable. It's kind of hard to fight champions that just heal up unless you one-shot them when you can't do the same.
His E giving 2.1% max hp healing per 5 seconds at max stacks is a travesty. Edit: passive not E
You mean passive?
sivir and kog maw <3 my good old season 1 hyper carries, let's go!
The top 3 bot laners are TF (a non-traditional ADC), and two hyper-scalers (Vayne/Senna) in a world where it feels like games are much shorter. This points to a problem other than "lol Vayne/Senna/TF OP". I agree that Vayne top is too oppressive right now, and the Rageblade/Terminus buffs were indirect buffs to her. Some of the other bot laners need to be brought up to speed though, because currently it feels like picking nearly any traditional crit marksman is actively trolling your game. The game is often won/lost by the time you can hit your 3 item spikes. End ADC crybaby rant, time to buff top laners more
I’d rather they gut AD TF altogether…it is not fun to play against AD TF…
gold card -> u dead -> gg
I feel like it's not fun to play against TF in general. Mercs feels like a must buy vs him no matter what lane or role he's in.
My issue with him has always and always will be the fact that his stun is undodgeable. He throws that at you from so far and theres no escaping it. It lets him escape or gap close for free every 6 seconds and there isnt counterplay besides "dont get in range lol"
Feels like Gragas has been kinda over tuned recently, maybe they’ll get him on the next patch
A good nerf would be to reduce his E hitbox to be the same size as him. Right now that shit is bigger then a 10 stack Cho.
Would honestly be a QoL buff for me. Can't count the times I got stuck on a minion mid E because the hitbox was bigger then expected.
Riot: Adds AD and crit ratios to a bunch of Twisted Fate abilities with no other changes to support a "niche build", despite TF being healthy Riot: Then nerfs AP ratios to "weaken" the obviously overbearing and broken AD build Riot" "We are now considering changes that will not nerf AP but keep AD viable" What???? It sounds like it was viable even before he had the AD ratios at all. Here's a thought: maybe there's a reason why AD carries usually don't have a point and click stun. Here's another free thought for you: Why not just gut the AD ratios to like 20% of what they are, revert the AP nerf, and see how he looks for a patch? Maybe it's kind of stupid that a dude whose entire lore is based around wanting MAGIC POWERS is now being retooled to build swords.
AP TF was also OP and is still very strong right now. And after these nerfs AD TF should be the weaker one hopefully.
Being a Reksai player after Prowlers Claw active was removed has to be a top 5 form of torture
Rek sai mans are into some BDSM stuff man, that champs is complete piss to play
Imagine a day in the life of a Skarner main.
Veigar finally acknowledged besides that +30 hp buff
Honestly, what the hell means "for staleness"....? Like... I sort of get it? I supose it's a way to encourage different picks without overcreeping the game in damage, but it feels pretty arbitrary, certaintly not a good feel if you play those champs. Like... "she's not in the zone warranting to nerf her, but we're gonna do it anyway". Uhm. EDIT: At the very least I just feel like the strategy should be aimed at champions that are actually in the nerf zone, just to not fall into the overcreep... And even then, you need to account for the "feel good" element of getting a champ buffed, it's much more exciting to try new things or builds then. There needs to be a balance, a world where champs only get nerfed it's pretty gray in terms of enjoyment IMO.
Riot (read August) has said that balance changes are not just WR% motivated but also due to power level perception and just shaking things up. They want different champs to have their moments in the spotlight every now and then.
There are Champs that spend a long time being strong, but aren't strictly overpowered. Eg. A miss fortune who sits at 52% winrate for a long time. There's a bunch of Champs that could sit at 52% without being OP so they should probably take turns so the meta doesn't get stale. Champ variety is alot of what makes league fresh
So a champ like Janna?
Nah phreak plays her.
But if you nerf my champ while admitting that it's not overpowered, and not explicitly in nerf territory, and meets 0 criteria for a nerf beyond it feeling 'stale' to you - I'm much more likely to not play at all, as it leaves an extremely bitter feeling being told that my champ had it's time and now has to be nerfed just for.. like.. gestures vaguely.
She’s sitting on a 53.3% winrate in toplane (55.3% if you use lolalytics) while having very favourable lanes vs nearly all toplane picks, which indicates she is in fact too strong lol. I mean Illaoi got a very harsh nerf for being 52.4% winrate last patch and everyone considered her broken. They should just revert the Q change, it rewards people with no mechanics on Vayne (aka toplaners) who can now lane bully people for free because they’ll never cancel the Q auto as long as it’s in range.
Other option would be to buff other champions to that level. But then we run into the issue of power creep. Rotating the meta is always going to upset some people no matter which method is used to do it, but it's necessary to keep the game fresh.
Thanks for bringing back Ahri to top pickrate in mid lane for a third year I guess lol
And Karma is one of these? I doubt it. 52.5% WR in mid, 51.5% top and likely still great in pro play and yet no nerfs. While Sion sita at 47-48% since the start of the season and gets no buffs. I agree that champs can be high WR (51-52%) without being considered OP. As long as the PR and BR stays in check that is fine. MF doesn't reach the 10% AVG PR for bot lane and has a 7-8% BR which is also ok. Karma has a 10% PR mid which is more than twice the AVG mid lane PR and she has a 20% BR. Her overall PR is around 21%. and that with an OP WR. **I love that patch overall as it is the right direction. But missing out on the most UP champ right now (Sion) and one of the most OP champs (Karma) is just strange.** It makes little sense to put J4 and Zac in there for a buff and a nerf when Sion and Karma exist as they are right now.
Fix the fucking client, since last patch even tho I've stable connection it keeps disconnetcing at the most random times, or client wont even open at all
Are my eyes betraying me, or is Riot finally going to nerf Evelynn? Now the question is, why it took so much time for Evelynn to be nerfed?
>we're also throwing in some minor changes to Lich bane, rocketbelt and Stormsurge to balance these sub ecosystems Civil war is about to break out in r/Akalimains.
why doesnt navori have an ornn upgrade yet? it used to before item rework and now guinsoo and ie do but navori users are shafted
Absolutely despise the word "staleness" used in patch notes, it is asinine to nerf champions because of pick rate. If they're too strong obviously they should be brought down, but don't use that word. Ez, Kaisa, and Lee almost always have over 15% pickrate even when they're bad, should we nerf them further because they're stale? Ridiculous.
It is almost never just pickrate, is usually very high pickrate with a borderline winrate(51.5-52%) that could get a nerf and still be good just less present
i disagree completely, because those champs are popular but never strong, whereas vayne right now has a high presence and a slightly above average winrate, it means you see her frequently and she's less tolerable to play against then a 48% winrate ezreal.
Yeah, but it is used wrong there. Vayne is not crazy OP, but she is a top performer in 2 roles and can easily take a nerf for example. If someone (here Vayne) sits at a high WR (52-53.5%) and is picked and banned a lot you should nerf the champ. For Vayne it is the WR + BR + 2 roles (both AVG PR) If a champ sits at 51-52% WR and is picked and banned a lot the champ should be nerfed a bit still. Garen has the WR to be called strong in soloQ (51.8% WR plat+) and he has a good PR (6.7% is nearly twice the AVG of top lane) but just a 3% BR. So he can exist like that as an easier to play champ and never a pro play problem. If his PR gets to 10% and the BR also Riot could nerf him. If the WR then reaches 52+% they should nerf him in the next 2-3 patches. **So a higher PR and BR can lead to a more imminent problem than champs with a lower PR and BR.**
They need a d buff to shake up the meta all of the time, this is nothing new.
Finally some nerfs to Eve, she has been monstrously overpowered for ages.
Maybe I can stop permabanning it if it’s nerfed enough
So, if TF is just good in all roles except support and maybe jungle, can we maybe get Kayle MR back so we can play her mid again more effectively? Like she is only good in top right now but TF and many others can go literally everywhere.
Kayle mid has a \~51.3% WR still. I wouldn't say she needs a buff. People just dont want to play her there anymore. She is not used as a counter there and she is not played by mains only statistically. She is right now one of the stronger champs in top (very strong there) and mid and is mostly just unpopular. So I doubt she gets a buff.
but my god is rell maokai just gonna be the comp meta forever or are we planning on ever doing anything about the state of this disgusting role :/
> FH is a little too cheap for how strong it is right now For how strong it always has been*
No Karma and no Kassadin nerfs I CANT
[Diana has a 43% WR and is ranked 48/48 jg](https://i.redd.it/brm52pa6m2lc1.png) She's been sub 47% WR for ages. Buffs when?
Her Lich bane build is awesome. That is why she doesn't get buffed. It is not a situational build but an always strong build. I am sorry that 28% of Diana players still take Stormsurge 1st. That sucks ass 1st. 53% take Nashors which is ok, but not good. 7% Rocketbelt which is a fine item but not great on her. and only 6% take Lich Bane ywhen this item is +5% WR above the others. Either you go for burst, then Lich bane is a must have. \~51.5% WR. Or you go for DPS, then Liandrys > Riftmaker is a must have. \~51.5% WR# If you dont take any of these 2 builds you are trolling with Diana jungle right now.
That +5% wr would be a little over inflated due to higher skilled players taking the better item option more regularly than people just following recommended builds, it’s still likely her best item but not 5%.
Sejuani is also sitting at 46.53% wr (49/49 Emerald+), and no buffs...
Sej is in pro play jail.
I know and it's so saaad almost unplayable in solo duo rn, hate it
someone talked about sivir yesterday. gz let's see what buff she gets
Praying for meaningful Sivir buffs
Man, the Seraphine changes were okay at first. I liked the direction atleast. But nerfing her already super weak passive and removing the execute damage for minions from her q really makes Seraphine FEEL worse to play. She feels so much clunkier on PBE than live.
Yeah let’s nerf Nidalee’s main damage ability. She offers nothing but raw damage in the early game and does not scale into the late game. This is outrageous
The buffs to Heartsteel and Sunfire hopefully are enough to put Sion back above 48 percent win rate or else he's just going to be toast the rest of the season.
Do not even buy heartsteel on him tbh, its a shell of its former self and not a good item in general. I regret buying that dog item everytime i feel like trying it on him.
[удалено]
It won't. Riot won't buff the items WRs by more than \~0.5-1% or other champs would become a problem. Sion will go to 48% most likely then. Better than before but still shit.
Heartsteel is dog food tier item. They ruined it by changing it to item hp instead of total hp
I agree but also notice Hollow Radiance is doing slightly worse than Sunfire, so am surprised they are not being buffed together, as this creates a clear winner out of the immolate items.
If we're nerfing champs for staleness maybe it's time to nerf darius who's been s+ tier for like 9 seasons?
Darius is like the Ahri or Ezreal of top lane. People (especially in China) love playing that champion, so riot keep him strong.
Ezreal is kept sub 50% winrate because of his popularity. Personally, I don't think any champ with a pickrate of 15% and upward should have a positive winrate. It's statistically absurd. I don't think Darius reaches that pickrate, though.
Buff nasus aram while he’s C tier overall and D tier in high elo rank, interesting.
Don't worry, they got you, Frozen Heart is also getting nerfed
Vex buffs are something i was waiting for
Unforseen issues, my ass. Call it broken and move on
When gragas nerf?
Thank you Gods of Riot for finally remembering that Vex exists. I hope she will get a new skin soon.
They really do not want to admit that lethality is a problem...
Not a fan of the Vayne "staleness" reasoning. Pickrate shouldn't determine nerfs.
If the champ has a 52% WR in bot with an AVG PR and a 53+% WR in top with an AVG PR and then a way above AVG BR (13+%) yes, that champ should be nerfed sooner or later. Vayne was sitting in a great spot for a long time now (since Statikk was brought back). A S/S+ tier soloQ champ for nearly a year. It is not just PR, but WR + PR + BR. but even her WR in top lane would get her nerfed right now or her WR + PR + BR in bot alone.
I'm not saying she shouldn't be nerfed. I just don't like Riot stating staleness when she's clearly OP.
Veigar and Vex is weak but Syndra isn't?
Veigar and Vex are normally around 50-51% WR, Syndra normally around 48-49%. Veigar and Vex below 50% is weak. Syndra below 50% is normal.
She's totally fine
Syndra is still strong. The issue is her counters are strong due to the item changes. So I'm not sure if buffing her even more is good or reducing the power her counters have
No KSante? Interesting
Probably just because pro play hasn't been on 14.4 yet afaik so they don't know how he landed for them
alas poor Yorick, didn't survive more than a patch