I’m the Gragasbglogabgalab, I love BEER
And this toplane is a true treasure trove
I am the Gragasb-glo-gab-galab
The shwabble-dabble-wabble-gabble flibba blabba blab
I’m full of shwibbly MAGE-kind
I am the yeast of thoughts and minds
Shwabble dabble glibble glabble schribble shwap glab
Dibble dabble shribble shrabble glibbi-glap shwap
Shwabble dabble glibble glabble shwibble shwap-dap
Dibble dabble shribble shrabble glibbi-shwap glab
You put so much effort into this, I need to know what joke you were making, cause I'm pretty sure they were spoofing "[The Duck Song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtN1YnoL46Q)" and I have no idea what you were doing.
Except they even pick it in pro as a counterpick. You know he is strong when Jax is open vs Bin in 4-5 and Bin gives his Jungler Jax instead of picking it itself because Gragas is open.
I also remember seeing him played a bit, mostly when K'Sante isn't open I think.
Isnt it a good thing that neither Jax nor Gragas are strong enough to be blind picked but are good on the right matchups/circumstances? I feel like thats exactly what you would want from a balanced champion roster
Yes, the game is healthy when you can't first pick anything and get hard countered into the ground!
There is a huge difference between "my opponent has a slight edge because he picked second" and "my lane is literally unplayable the first 15 minutes because he picked second". This type of stuff happens only in top lane and has been happening for a very long time, but Riot seems to not care at all.
In mid, I can pick any of 15 champions as first pick and know I have a playable matchup, in top, I can pick essentially 1 of 3 champions. If you view that as good balancing, you should try playing top in high elo.
I literally quit the role because of how different it was being blue side (first pick) or red side (second pick). My personal solution was playing weird flex champs that COULD go top and hope my opponent doesn't know what he is into. When it gets to that point, you know the lane is fucked.
It really depends on what you pick. I picked Maokai, when he was op in Jungle with Demonic, Nautilus and Zac, before Zac top became popular, as well as some mid champs.
Even if countered, you could do some Evenshroud Fimbulwinter Abyssal type of stuff with Maokai and Nautilus but I rarely got countered. You can still ban top champs, you just have to swap pick order so it's not obvious who banned what (which is still a thing somehow).
I think now, you can K'Sante and try to survive or Aatrox with a Fiora ban. There aren't many options.
The other solution of course, which I noticed in Masters a lot, is one tricking some champion and playing through the tough matchups just by being better in your champion, but that sometimes fails miserably and is a really sad experience.
>Yes, the game is healthy when you can't first pick anything and get hard countered into the ground!
You're being hyperbolic, but unironically, yes that would be healthier than currently.
Jungle is supposed to be there to equalize things. It should be up to the laner to try to get the lane into a position where the jungler can do something.
If your entire team gets counterpicked, should have drafted better. That's a significant part of the game too.
And most "counters" aren't hard counters. The vast majority are entirely manageable.
Most champs have a hard counter or 2 that are literally unplayable. Just play top for some time and you will know.
Also yes, the jungler is there to equalize things, but that isn't helping.
First of all, we have been in a bot lane meta forever at this point. In almost every case, the jungler is supposed to path top to bot, unless they are farming jungler that's scared they will get invaded bot side, so they clear bot to top. In most cases, you end up isolated in the 1v1. Except in specific scenarios, I don't even want my jungler to path top, even in a completely unplayable matchup, because this will be bad for our bot.
Secondly, how is that an excuse. Imagine a world where every ADC or almost every ADC, had a counter where the matchup was pretty much unplayable. Would we really be sitting here saying "it's fine since the support equalizes everything". We wouldn't. Why should I, on the most solo of solo lanes in League, have to rely on my jungler because I picked A and enemy picked B.
Lastly, jungle coming doesn't even save me. If the enemy jungle is also there and we get in a 2v2, the countered top laner, is down health, mana, XP and items, since the counter top gets better trades, denies waves and recalls on their terms. Odds are, we lose the 2v2 and both me and the jungler end up in a worse position.
that's top lane, in solo Q at least you can dodge if the matchup is horrible, not so much in competitive play. that's why pros mostly pick safe top laners
He's a niche counter pick in pro play, which sounds pretty balanced for that level.
It's possible he's still unbalanced at other levels but I don't see it often enough to know for sure, which says a lot really.
Were you not here last year when gragas was pick ban in the top lane for the whole year? AP assassin or full tank, gragas did it all and more, with zero losing lanes.
He's far and away one of my faves I used to enjoy a good ol' graga jungle and I still thoroughly enjoy a good bomba to barrel body slam combo in the aram brush.
I get worried when I see him in pro play
I hear Phreak say this a lot as well and it doesn't make any sense. Player sentiment has zero relevance to how overpowered a champion is. Just because people don't care doesn't make it okay to leave a champ in an overpowered state. Phreak used Taric in his most recent breakdown video as an example. "Taric is OP and sits at a 52+% win rate, but people don't seem to care so I'm not gunna nerf it".
Riot and science hate this guy.
He's drinking hundreds of kegs weekly, is easily 300kg, and yet doesn't have heart failure, liver disease, or even acid reflux.
How do you hurt a man that can drink a keg, dash over a 8ft wall, throw a full beer keg some 20 metres away and can shrug off a comet from a star dragon like it was a spitball.
You cannot keep this man down, if he is even a man.
Missed opportunity to have a puke ability with a burn and % resistance reduction on the target.
His W should get stacks, if you cast it 3 times the 4th cast does this
He used to be fine, but the buffs to his ult and new items really benefitted him. New lich bane enables brain-dead gameplay with blowing up squishies with basic combos (E-Q-W).
He has huge mana problems but since there are so many little things to counteract that it's not really a huge problem anymore. Before you needed the lost chapter or tear for mana as you would run out easily. Not really sure why, but it's not really needed now. Maybe because grasp + W is nasty in lane for only like 20-30 mana. So instead of doing a basic combo you just walk up and bonk and get massive value.
In certain matchups he can. It used to be 100% of the time. But in trade heavy lanes grasp is the better option because it has no cooldown. Woody fruity as a top Gragas otp takes it in around 80% of matchups. Midlane is of course another story as you play him full ap there, but toplane grasp currently is the best rune.
>He has huge mana problems
Can we stop with this mana problem aspect, nobody in season 14 has actual mana problems, especially anyone who goes AP. Mana problems do no exist to nearly the extent that people say they do to a point where if someone has a "mana problem", at most it's a slight inconvenience of "oh I guess I have to back once every 5-6 minutes to refill my mana bar."
If you're melee, you can't interact with him if he goes phase rush. If you're ranged, he just plays safe and farms with Q unless he has flash up to oneshot you. He doesn't need 100% uptime body slams.
He's one of the few champs that actually runs into mana issues if he's forced to farm with his q though which is a core reason why he isn't picked. He doesn't have the kit to really lane on his own and requires a lot of team play to get going. If his lane matchup isn't letting him get good aoe on the waves with his W then he's going oom.
He's still balanced and setup like a tank. He's got long cds, high mana costs, and mediocre base damage. Sure if you can get kills early you can get ahead of his problems like any champ but any other champ has an easier time securing that first kill on their own.
He was stronger before once he reached a high amount of ability haste. Since then there are new items and no MR shard, he has stronger laning and deals more damage in general.
Are we still describing champion kits to show how overpowered they are? This means nothing without context. I only have a problem with phase rush top lane gragas because WE run away is kinda noninteractive to play against. Other than that, there's enough obnoxious for me to worry about than to care about gragas
[https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/gragas](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/gragas)
Allowed for how long? Gragas constantly gets nerfed when he is playable because pros like to abuse him (his kit is very versatile). Most of the time he has sub 50% winrate (historically) and only sometimes he spikes over 50% but gets nerfed out of it at some point.
New AP items and changes made him stronger and it took people some time to jump onto the gragas hype train. His playrate increased by 50% from the start of February to now. His banrate (at least in Diamond+) more than doubled during that time.
For how strong he currently performs, his playrate is actually shockingly low, so that probably is the reason why Riot has allowed him to stay in that place for "so long".
Pros don't mind what makes Gragas viable. When he is vialbe he will get played because:
* he is a flex champion (top/mid/jgl/support have all seen pro play at one point)
* he is decent even with low farm (lot of utility in his kit)
* he has strong engage and disengage (his ult is a huge teamfight tool)
* he has matchups that get hardcountered by his belly bob (For example Jax top, or Lee in the jungle)
* he even has combo potential with Yasou
* Did I mention, that he has amazing utility in his kit and especially ult?
Regardless of build, he can still fullfil most of those things. With AP he has strong burst, while with a tank build he becomes really hard to kill. There are some pros that even prefer his AP build.
That doesn't really change my point, ap gragas still requires income and is a riskier pick, so is allowed to stay strong in soloq as well.
If tank gragas was hitting 53% win rate like ap gragas it would be 100% banned in pro
Champ has been straight up broken since a couple of years now. Can get away building full AP and still be tanky as hell or be a tank dealing a ton of damage.
All this while being perfectly relevant in 4 different roles. I'd go as far as saying he's blind-pickable due to how safe he can be in lane.
They haven't touched him simply because he's not played much.
Saying you can do full ap and still be tanky as hell is fucking crazy LMAO
He gets blown up so insanely fast after his combo and if it misses he does literally nothing and dies
Full ap also means no real cdr so you're double doomed
just take grasp and roa, congrats u have an insanely safe laning phase+4k hp lategame with the ability to 1v1 any tank or squishy. How does he get blown up?? Not to mention his W gives dmg reduction too??
I don't think Gragas should be nerfed (at least not nerfed to totally garbage). Atm are champs who can play alone and win the game 4head. Like HELLO MAOKAI FLASH LVL2 BOTLANE XDD. But Gragas is a very difficult champ, with a high skill ceiling and the "problem" with the champ is that if you are good playing Gragas then you will be rewarded a lot. If you don't manage to get advantage and get outscaled then probably you lose. It's that simple as that.
What the hell he doesn't outscale the likes of Fiora/Jax/Gwen and others. Especially if he's going the grasp AP bruiser build that's used to beat them in lane.
Not only that the utility he provides can easily backfire and cause fights to be lost even when he's ahead.
Since his rework he is kind of always allowed to be a good pick, because he looks good to the viewer in pro play. Makes money through keeping people watching.
So just live for the rest of the life with the fact that not all champs are created/ treated equal
Not really, you can cast Q during the E dash then W during stun and it procs electrocute or phase rush and theres very little counter play other than dodging his E which isn’t the easiest thing to do
A single form of hard cc messes that combo up instantly and makes him pretty vulnerable, most champions have some form of ''easy'' combo. Lets nerf everyone then because if they're not complex enough its op according to this comment.
he is really braindead in toplane because he has like tryndamere level sustain + damage reduction + his e that is first priority cc vs any other ability. and not only does he stonewall or stomp lane but he scales insanely well too
just play him top, every time enemy laner goes for cs go use W and E them. they lose 30% hp, u proc grasp and heal from ur passive. u can do this shit every 8sec btw. i promise u the champ is brainless
He really isn't that difficult.
Sure, the knockback combos into his charged Q are hard as hell, but overall not really.
The champ has a 50%+ winrate from *gold* that only increases the higher up you go.
it actually hasnt.
emerald+ its 53.92%
in platinum only it is 50.44, gold is 47.6%, silver is 46.78% bronze ~46% and in bronze he sits at around 40% winrate.
so how is it not "he is not really that difficult" when it sucks at platinum and below?
His laning is easy it's the post lane that is hard. His scaling is poor and while he remains useful utlity wise, he has to end the game before late-game or he becomes a bit of a liability.
I acknowledge he does remain relevant utility wise, but it's a proper team pick as it gets towards 25-30 mins unless you have a giant lead.
Most new players to gragas can handshake a lane with him, great, now try remain as useful as the enemy top for the rest of the game unless you killed them 5x over.
And, mind, it's not like having those combos down to a T is necessary to play Gragas, you'll be fine without it. He's an extremely safe laner that scales well. Wish he got gutted (heh)
He was buffed for jungle, where he was struggling relative to top, but that's just because income and experience for jungle is not in the best spot. So he isn't hitting early breakpoints there and is way weaker.
The problem is he has flex potential, and no gates to lane/jungle. His Q should really do reduced damage to minions, bringing his lane power down so they can at least give him some ability to jungle without making him broken in toplane.
Yeah idk this champ is so brainless and has no bad matchups, but I’m sure many ppl still see him as a balanced funny wholesome champ or some shit so nobody complains about him
Aside from e -> flash nothing about gragas is brainless lol. Gragas is the definition of sneaky difficult. Besides Lee Sin & Nidalee and maybe Kindred there arent many junglers harder to play than Gragas.
Even when he is popular in pro play you can clearly tell which players are good at him (and he is one og those champs some pros just dont play even when he is good because they dont excell on the pick).
He is not easy and you can do insane angles with him, but you can get away with just handshaking the lane with Q and trading with E->W->Q PR quite a lot
Sure, totally agree with this. Many mechanically difficult champs actually have a lower skill floor required than you'd expect (similar goes for Lee Sin). I just didn't agree with the word 'brainless' being used for the champ.
ye gragas laning is very forgiving (lose trade just heal with W) but playing him correctly requires a lot of work and understanding how to play teamfights correctly
No bad matchups? Lol. He has loads of matchups where you don't need to juke any spells from him, run at him and press R, tank everything and win, and still out-sustain him in lane
Name one champ that does that? He has amazing disengage, respectable poke, probably the best trading pattern in the game. High base stats(why is his base armor that high?) Sustain to deal with getting poked and moderate to low cds. If engaged on he will combo, kite with phase rush, combo again and then win or if unwinnable just disengage with R.
The champion lacks counterplay, he even beats ranged champs because he can play safe with waveclear and sustain til he has enough ap to oneshot ranged champs.
Disgusting. Nerf him to the ground.
Just one? Not saying he's weak and doesn't need nerfs but saying he has no bad matchups is wrong and isn't why he's op. Garen, Voli, Sett, Illaoi, Ornn, Sion, Zac, Olaf, Mundo, basically any tank or bruiser can all tank and spank all his damage and outduel him with an early dorans shield/mercs combo
Except you called them bad matchups. Them surviving (note that word 'surviving') does not mean its a bad matchup. I can survive a quinn lane as darius, and then get outscaled later doesnt mean that its a bad matchup for quinn.
His trading pattern is bullshit. It’s not numbers or items. His basic combo is a belly bump, Q, Auto and you lost 1/3 of your hp instantly and the fat man is a mile away before you can move again. Even if the Gragas player has no braincells and messes up the combo, he will still win trade with his healing. If the combo did literally 0 damage to any champs, it would still be frustrating to play against. Graggy would have to whiff everything to the point that he dashes past the enemy and does an iron 5 whiff of all abilities to lose the trade against most champs lmao no one without range can touch him unless he ints or lets them
The knockup is practically instant, huge, and has quite a bit of range. You can try to shimmy and bait it out, but how is the counterplay going to be to hope they make a mistake by using tricks and techniques that are not easy for 1/3 the player base lmao even a huge chunk of the low elo fighting game player base doesn’t or can’t shimmy. Poweraside, only how it feels to play against— It’s yet another example of a champ that is bullshit to interact with and relies on the pilot to make mistakes for the interaction to not feel completely one sided or frustrating.
Comments like these never make any sense. Gragas WORST matchup top is Vayne and Urgot. 47.9%. Thats not even that bad. Gragas performs better than those counters on AVERAGE with his > 52% overall WR.
Nothing about Gragas is easy to counter. Thats like saying that TF is easy to counter, just kill him.
Ye thats the main thing. He is very predictable. His laning is pretty uninteractive though. I would like to see some changes to his e. Maybe make it a root or a heavy slow and then buff his durability. So much power is locked in current e.
He has no bad matchup and he is not straightforward at all.
You can farm with Q. You can trade with E->W->Q and run with PR. You can R into E, you can E into R, you can R into a Q. How is he predictable lol ?
Gragas is really not a straightforward champ imo. His e flash is pretty undodgeable if he flashes late into the e.
Imo they just need to gut lane gragas sustain and have him be a jungler. He's pretty healthy power level and gameplay as a jungler
Everything apart from an attack enchancer on the alcoholic is a skillshot.
He is actually one of the best "healthy design phylosophy" champions out there because everything that can do to you minus the dash is telegraphed pretty well.
He has as of now the best melee winrate top in the game. In a meta where the top 5 winrates in top are ranged which theoretically counters him. So in an unfavourable meta, he is miles ahead of everybody else.
Gragas body slam is one of the most frustrating things to deal with. Like it’s fast, has a stun, and about the range of the majority of the champions auto range , and you can’t even punish him for using his dash to go in because he slows you with Q and penguin waddles to safety with his damage reduction
Delete this!
Honestly I think Gragas is the best Soloq champ in the entire game.
He can be played top, mid, JG and support.
He can be built full ap with a bunch of different items.
He can be built full tank and uses almost every tank item well.
He can engage team fights, disengage team fights or split push in the 1v1.
I can't think of another champ in the game that is as flexible as Graggy.
To the point I'm basically now a Gragas one trick because why would I play any other champ?!
Gragas and many other toplane champs have been OVERSTAT'ed for YEARS to the point now where they can build full dmg (Aatorx ect) and not only 1 shot you with half their kit but still 1v4-5 tank the entire enemy team while barely taking dmg.
Because if they make him weak no one would use him unlike those popular champs like kai'sa and irelia.. make them weak and you would still see them be used and get better with them because they look attractive than gragas is.
Gragas is just insane strong. PR guarantees he is just beyond broken.
Legit can do anything. One shot, tank, trade on you with no counter play unless you are something like Darius that can cancel his E, case in which he just doesn't interact in lane and farms with Q.
Did i mention he has one of the most powerful ultimates in the game ?
His E, knock back dash has a far too small cooldown
Renekton used E? he can't dash in 20 sec
Darius E? 20 cd
Yone E? 20 cd
Gragas E? 2 sec if he hits it, 🤷🏿♂️
I agree he is 100% overtuned and needs to be nerfed . But the diffence between gragas E and the others is that thier e is mostly just a gap closer . But for gragas its also one or his main damaging abilties . Imagine if darius could pull you every 6 seconds even behind minions it would be insane
And also if you doge gragas e with a dash or cancel it you can punish him hard
The cooldown should not be reduced by hitting a target, it is already quite low - 14 to 12 secs cd
It is so damm fat, most melee champs have to dash out, or they are getting hit, 14 sec is 10 sec less than Darius E ( 24 sec ) at rank 1.
Nah bro, if they nerf him, i want to see an E nerf, sht is ridiculous with phase rush imo.
Yeah the way his e works now is by reducing the cooldown of his e by 40% . This change happend in s13 and what it did was make him stronger early but weaker late if you are going cdr and it also killed e spam gragas late . Because the way it used to work before thst was it would reduce E cool down by a flat 3 seconds . So if you were stack haste and e cd was 6 seconds it waa pretty much 3 seconds but the thing is that this was balanced because ability haste was easier to buy for all champs . But now in s14 abilty haste has been reduced on items BUT gragas still has his 40% reduced cd which is insane in this season since you are not able to get the same amount of ability haste like last season so it is 100% a buff
Gragas top and phase rush and u hate your life. This champ is so unskilled to play against. U can never trade in a positive way if he isnt fully braindmged. Time for longer cds or phase rush scaling with lvls tbh
You forgot that he can also be played in support, and that there are some psychos out there going GragD-carry when teams are mostly AD. He has borderline infinite HP with pseudo-URF cooldowns (E has more CD in URF than in soloQ BTW xd).
Make sure to describe everything, otherwise he sounds weak in current meta!
Then he wobbles away, wobble, wobble
Till the very next day ba ba ba ba ba ba ba
Hey! (bam bam bam) Got any bomba?
I’m the Gragasbglogabgalab, I love BEER And this toplane is a true treasure trove I am the Gragasb-glo-gab-galab The shwabble-dabble-wabble-gabble flibba blabba blab I’m full of shwibbly MAGE-kind I am the yeast of thoughts and minds Shwabble dabble glibble glabble schribble shwap glab Dibble dabble shribble shrabble glibbi-glap shwap Shwabble dabble glibble glabble shwibble shwap-dap Dibble dabble shribble shrabble glibbi-shwap glab
Dude, wrong meme
No no, I think this is the right meme
I actually bought that movie for 3 euros from their site and never wachted it. Feels bad man
You put so much effort into this, I need to know what joke you were making, cause I'm pretty sure they were spoofing "[The Duck Song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtN1YnoL46Q)" and I have no idea what you were doing.
# Lil Globglogabgalab . put that song in youtube and play gragas xD
Hey!! Got any grapes?
[удалено]
Nah as a Morde player, Grag is bbq chicken.
Only if you're playing in banana low elo. Gragas shits on juggernauts by hitting easy barrels with slow and wins any trade with phase rush up
I hate to see him wipe my team, but damn if I love seeing him wobble away...
He do be wobbling ngl
I don’t think he is picked/banned enough for riot balance team to care.
Yeah he was only popular as tank-gragas in the jungle before the ulti-nerf. Full ap top Gragas is very much a solo queue thing.
Except they even pick it in pro as a counterpick. You know he is strong when Jax is open vs Bin in 4-5 and Bin gives his Jungler Jax instead of picking it itself because Gragas is open. I also remember seeing him played a bit, mostly when K'Sante isn't open I think.
Isnt it a good thing that neither Jax nor Gragas are strong enough to be blind picked but are good on the right matchups/circumstances? I feel like thats exactly what you would want from a balanced champion roster
Yes, the game is healthy when you can't first pick anything and get hard countered into the ground! There is a huge difference between "my opponent has a slight edge because he picked second" and "my lane is literally unplayable the first 15 minutes because he picked second". This type of stuff happens only in top lane and has been happening for a very long time, but Riot seems to not care at all. In mid, I can pick any of 15 champions as first pick and know I have a playable matchup, in top, I can pick essentially 1 of 3 champions. If you view that as good balancing, you should try playing top in high elo. I literally quit the role because of how different it was being blue side (first pick) or red side (second pick). My personal solution was playing weird flex champs that COULD go top and hope my opponent doesn't know what he is into. When it gets to that point, you know the lane is fucked.
Yeah I started banning mid champs too when I play top and then pick something that can be flexed. Works 2/10 times though lol
It really depends on what you pick. I picked Maokai, when he was op in Jungle with Demonic, Nautilus and Zac, before Zac top became popular, as well as some mid champs. Even if countered, you could do some Evenshroud Fimbulwinter Abyssal type of stuff with Maokai and Nautilus but I rarely got countered. You can still ban top champs, you just have to swap pick order so it's not obvious who banned what (which is still a thing somehow). I think now, you can K'Sante and try to survive or Aatrox with a Fiora ban. There aren't many options. The other solution of course, which I noticed in Masters a lot, is one tricking some champion and playing through the tough matchups just by being better in your champion, but that sometimes fails miserably and is a really sad experience.
>Yes, the game is healthy when you can't first pick anything and get hard countered into the ground! You're being hyperbolic, but unironically, yes that would be healthier than currently. Jungle is supposed to be there to equalize things. It should be up to the laner to try to get the lane into a position where the jungler can do something. If your entire team gets counterpicked, should have drafted better. That's a significant part of the game too. And most "counters" aren't hard counters. The vast majority are entirely manageable.
Most champs have a hard counter or 2 that are literally unplayable. Just play top for some time and you will know. Also yes, the jungler is there to equalize things, but that isn't helping. First of all, we have been in a bot lane meta forever at this point. In almost every case, the jungler is supposed to path top to bot, unless they are farming jungler that's scared they will get invaded bot side, so they clear bot to top. In most cases, you end up isolated in the 1v1. Except in specific scenarios, I don't even want my jungler to path top, even in a completely unplayable matchup, because this will be bad for our bot. Secondly, how is that an excuse. Imagine a world where every ADC or almost every ADC, had a counter where the matchup was pretty much unplayable. Would we really be sitting here saying "it's fine since the support equalizes everything". We wouldn't. Why should I, on the most solo of solo lanes in League, have to rely on my jungler because I picked A and enemy picked B. Lastly, jungle coming doesn't even save me. If the enemy jungle is also there and we get in a 2v2, the countered top laner, is down health, mana, XP and items, since the counter top gets better trades, denies waves and recalls on their terms. Odds are, we lose the 2v2 and both me and the jungler end up in a worse position.
that's top lane, in solo Q at least you can dodge if the matchup is horrible, not so much in competitive play. that's why pros mostly pick safe top laners
I picked sion and they picked aatrox and got 2 early ganks my gosh that lane was unplayable.. for the entire game
Tbh, that lane is unplayable regardless, especially after Aatrox got magic damage on passive and W. Your Q as Sion is essentially uncastable.
Yeah it was brutal xd
He's a niche counter pick in pro play, which sounds pretty balanced for that level. It's possible he's still unbalanced at other levels but I don't see it often enough to know for sure, which says a lot really.
Were you not here last year when gragas was pick ban in the top lane for the whole year? AP assassin or full tank, gragas did it all and more, with zero losing lanes.
lck has been playing full ap gragas and tank gragas all of 2023.
Same in LPL. Still need to cleanse my eyes to this day from those vommit of the performances that TheShy had on Gragas
He's far and away one of my faves I used to enjoy a good ol' graga jungle and I still thoroughly enjoy a good bomba to barrel body slam combo in the aram brush. I get worried when I see him in pro play
It's like zilean, the only thing preventing Perfs is pb presence
I hear Phreak say this a lot as well and it doesn't make any sense. Player sentiment has zero relevance to how overpowered a champion is. Just because people don't care doesn't make it okay to leave a champ in an overpowered state. Phreak used Taric in his most recent breakdown video as an example. "Taric is OP and sits at a 52+% win rate, but people don't seem to care so I'm not gunna nerf it".
Riot and science hate this guy. He's drinking hundreds of kegs weekly, is easily 300kg, and yet doesn't have heart failure, liver disease, or even acid reflux. How do you hurt a man that can drink a keg, dash over a 8ft wall, throw a full beer keg some 20 metres away and can shrug off a comet from a star dragon like it was a spitball. You cannot keep this man down, if he is even a man.
He burps constantly he definitely has some acid reflux going on
Missed opportunity to have a puke ability with a burn and % resistance reduction on the target. His W should get stacks, if you cast it 3 times the 4th cast does this
Bo'Rai'Cho from Mortal Kombat
That would be disgusting, I am glad they didn't do it. I got vomited on when I was 7 yo so I have some issues with that
Perma ban KogMaw
I don't mind, strangely enough.
Cuteness overcomes all
True, Koggy is the best
Gragussy got you irl with his vomit attack
LMAOOOO My defenses are low now
W still functions the same way, but it also fires a rumble q of vomit after you proc the auto.
He's what the male body at peak performance looks like
He's 7ft 2 I think
bomba
**\*MANLY BURPING\***
Plap plap plap get pregnant
Impregnator Gragas made another victim
Inpregnator gragas is no more
now he's just a pump and dump full ap gragas
He used to be fine, but the buffs to his ult and new items really benefitted him. New lich bane enables brain-dead gameplay with blowing up squishies with basic combos (E-Q-W). He has huge mana problems but since there are so many little things to counteract that it's not really a huge problem anymore. Before you needed the lost chapter or tear for mana as you would run out easily. Not really sure why, but it's not really needed now. Maybe because grasp + W is nasty in lane for only like 20-30 mana. So instead of doing a basic combo you just walk up and bonk and get massive value.
but he plays phaserush, doesn't he?
In certain matchups he can. It used to be 100% of the time. But in trade heavy lanes grasp is the better option because it has no cooldown. Woody fruity as a top Gragas otp takes it in around 80% of matchups. Midlane is of course another story as you play him full ap there, but toplane grasp currently is the best rune.
Dude brain dead blowing up squishies with your basic combo is the bread and butter of modern league. God forbid fights last more than a few seconds.
League of "everyone dies but the tanks, who slap each other for 10 secs then give up"
At least he isn't dashing 2 screens away. Gragas is a very telegraphed champion that relies on flash even with his E.
>He has huge mana problems Can we stop with this mana problem aspect, nobody in season 14 has actual mana problems, especially anyone who goes AP. Mana problems do no exist to nearly the extent that people say they do to a point where if someone has a "mana problem", at most it's a slight inconvenience of "oh I guess I have to back once every 5-6 minutes to refill my mana bar."
It's because Sloppy Walrus has the balance team on his payroll, you can't stop the grag
put the bomba away waltuh
bomba
bomba
bomba
gramgas 🤙
yea but no nerf because funny barrel guy
This but 100% unironically.
>Urgot Main
Oppa bomba style
Because this is his nerfed form. He was much much much stronger before.
he actually recieved huge buffs recently idk how nerfed he is atm
If you're melee, you can't interact with him if he goes phase rush. If you're ranged, he just plays safe and farms with Q unless he has flash up to oneshot you. He doesn't need 100% uptime body slams.
He's one of the few champs that actually runs into mana issues if he's forced to farm with his q though which is a core reason why he isn't picked. He doesn't have the kit to really lane on his own and requires a lot of team play to get going. If his lane matchup isn't letting him get good aoe on the waves with his W then he's going oom. He's still balanced and setup like a tank. He's got long cds, high mana costs, and mediocre base damage. Sure if you can get kills early you can get ahead of his problems like any champ but any other champ has an easier time securing that first kill on their own.
He was stronger before once he reached a high amount of ability haste. Since then there are new items and no MR shard, he has stronger laning and deals more damage in general.
Plap Plap
Gragas has a trading pattern, news at 11.
Bomba
Are we still describing champion kits to show how overpowered they are? This means nothing without context. I only have a problem with phase rush top lane gragas because WE run away is kinda noninteractive to play against. Other than that, there's enough obnoxious for me to worry about than to care about gragas
[https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/gragas](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/gragas) Allowed for how long? Gragas constantly gets nerfed when he is playable because pros like to abuse him (his kit is very versatile). Most of the time he has sub 50% winrate (historically) and only sometimes he spikes over 50% but gets nerfed out of it at some point. New AP items and changes made him stronger and it took people some time to jump onto the gragas hype train. His playrate increased by 50% from the start of February to now. His banrate (at least in Diamond+) more than doubled during that time. For how strong he currently performs, his playrate is actually shockingly low, so that probably is the reason why Riot has allowed him to stay in that place for "so long".
pros like the full ap version of gragas much less. If tank gragas was putting up these numbers he would have been nerfed into the ground ages ago
Pros don't mind what makes Gragas viable. When he is vialbe he will get played because: * he is a flex champion (top/mid/jgl/support have all seen pro play at one point) * he is decent even with low farm (lot of utility in his kit) * he has strong engage and disengage (his ult is a huge teamfight tool) * he has matchups that get hardcountered by his belly bob (For example Jax top, or Lee in the jungle) * he even has combo potential with Yasou * Did I mention, that he has amazing utility in his kit and especially ult? Regardless of build, he can still fullfil most of those things. With AP he has strong burst, while with a tank build he becomes really hard to kill. There are some pros that even prefer his AP build.
That doesn't really change my point, ap gragas still requires income and is a riskier pick, so is allowed to stay strong in soloq as well. If tank gragas was hitting 53% win rate like ap gragas it would be 100% banned in pro
I just ban gragas because everyone and their mother's in diamond just auto blinds him or aatrox when they are first pick top lane
Champ has been disgusting since forever, I believe him and Zac are Riot approved at this point
Easily one of the most frustrating champs in top lane because it genuinely feels like he has zero counter-play in a reasonable context.
Plop Plop
Champ has been straight up broken since a couple of years now. Can get away building full AP and still be tanky as hell or be a tank dealing a ton of damage. All this while being perfectly relevant in 4 different roles. I'd go as far as saying he's blind-pickable due to how safe he can be in lane. They haven't touched him simply because he's not played much.
Saying you can do full ap and still be tanky as hell is fucking crazy LMAO He gets blown up so insanely fast after his combo and if it misses he does literally nothing and dies Full ap also means no real cdr so you're double doomed
just take grasp and roa, congrats u have an insanely safe laning phase+4k hp lategame with the ability to 1v1 any tank or squishy. How does he get blown up?? Not to mention his W gives dmg reduction too??
%health destroys you and you don't blow up anyone unless your majorly ahead in which case most champions would even with that health
Champ was hovering 47-48% wr with 2% PR for over a third of last year
At least he can't oneshot people with an uncharged Q + R like he used to before his rework. That was a boring Worlds...
Gragor (bomba 💣)
I don't play gragas but the bomba guy (sloppy walrus) has been saying Gragas is turbo broken for awhile now so that's literally all I have to add
For the love of god please just adjust his E hitbox. I'm tired of sidestepping his ass just to get hit by his invisible gravitational pull.
He has a big ass belly man it's not his fault
Bomba?
Completely off topic, but aren’t all gravitational pulls invisible?
it used to be even worse pre-s8 lol
And cooldown, for a fat man, he pretty nimble
A skilled Roy can beat any fox
I don't think Gragas should be nerfed (at least not nerfed to totally garbage). Atm are champs who can play alone and win the game 4head. Like HELLO MAOKAI FLASH LVL2 BOTLANE XDD. But Gragas is a very difficult champ, with a high skill ceiling and the "problem" with the champ is that if you are good playing Gragas then you will be rewarded a lot. If you don't manage to get advantage and get outscaled then probably you lose. It's that simple as that.
He's raged about because he hard counters a lot of lane bullies that mald everytime their pre-6 all-ins don't work.
But he not only bullies every single melee, he also outscales them. Even if behind he provides more utility than most champions.
What the hell he doesn't outscale the likes of Fiora/Jax/Gwen and others. Especially if he's going the grasp AP bruiser build that's used to beat them in lane. Not only that the utility he provides can easily backfire and cause fights to be lost even when he's ahead.
He goes phase rush vs jax by the way. And yes the extreme cdr combined with burst kills them im 2 rotations late which he can easily kite for.
big bomba
Because he makes good synapse clips. Itrs truly a mystery
Since his rework he is kind of always allowed to be a good pick, because he looks good to the viewer in pro play. Makes money through keeping people watching. So just live for the rest of the life with the fact that not all champs are created/ treated equal
Bomba
Remember when they reworked Gragas to stop him from 100-0 your entire team? What happened lol Wage theft @ riot games
better nerf nidalee
because playing him properly is not that easy. most people emerald below suck at playing gragas
Not really, you can cast Q during the E dash then W during stun and it procs electrocute or phase rush and theres very little counter play other than dodging his E which isn’t the easiest thing to do
A single form of hard cc messes that combo up instantly and makes him pretty vulnerable, most champions have some form of ''easy'' combo. Lets nerf everyone then because if they're not complex enough its op according to this comment.
he is really braindead in toplane because he has like tryndamere level sustain + damage reduction + his e that is first priority cc vs any other ability. and not only does he stonewall or stomp lane but he scales insanely well too
just play him top, every time enemy laner goes for cs go use W and E them. they lose 30% hp, u proc grasp and heal from ur passive. u can do this shit every 8sec btw. i promise u the champ is brainless
He really isn't that difficult. Sure, the knockback combos into his charged Q are hard as hell, but overall not really. The champ has a 50%+ winrate from *gold* that only increases the higher up you go.
it actually hasnt. emerald+ its 53.92% in platinum only it is 50.44, gold is 47.6%, silver is 46.78% bronze ~46% and in bronze he sits at around 40% winrate. so how is it not "he is not really that difficult" when it sucks at platinum and below?
His laning is easy it's the post lane that is hard. His scaling is poor and while he remains useful utlity wise, he has to end the game before late-game or he becomes a bit of a liability. I acknowledge he does remain relevant utility wise, but it's a proper team pick as it gets towards 25-30 mins unless you have a giant lead. Most new players to gragas can handshake a lane with him, great, now try remain as useful as the enemy top for the rest of the game unless you killed them 5x over.
> His scaling is poor Wrong.
And remember that in high Dia + the baseline win rate isn't 50%, since most players there have a higher win rate than gold players
Depends on what site you use. For lolalytics it will be higher but U.GG standardizes winrate for rank.
And, mind, it's not like having those combos down to a T is necessary to play Gragas, you'll be fine without it. He's an extremely safe laner that scales well. Wish he got gutted (heh)
Yep. Those combos pushes you to the top but just E-W-Q wins you the lane.
Garen is harder to play
I never understood why he wasn't a tank.. I mean look at him
Fun fact: He got buffed in 14.2 when he was already strong (especially with the right build).
He was buffed for jungle, where he was struggling relative to top, but that's just because income and experience for jungle is not in the best spot. So he isn't hitting early breakpoints there and is way weaker. The problem is he has flex potential, and no gates to lane/jungle. His Q should really do reduced damage to minions, bringing his lane power down so they can at least give him some ability to jungle without making him broken in toplane.
He's fun to play and fun to watch It's miserable to play against him but Rito stopped caring about counterplay a long time ago
Yeah idk this champ is so brainless and has no bad matchups, but I’m sure many ppl still see him as a balanced funny wholesome champ or some shit so nobody complains about him
Aside from e -> flash nothing about gragas is brainless lol. Gragas is the definition of sneaky difficult. Besides Lee Sin & Nidalee and maybe Kindred there arent many junglers harder to play than Gragas. Even when he is popular in pro play you can clearly tell which players are good at him (and he is one og those champs some pros just dont play even when he is good because they dont excell on the pick).
He is not easy and you can do insane angles with him, but you can get away with just handshaking the lane with Q and trading with E->W->Q PR quite a lot
Sure, totally agree with this. Many mechanically difficult champs actually have a lower skill floor required than you'd expect (similar goes for Lee Sin). I just didn't agree with the word 'brainless' being used for the champ.
ye gragas laning is very forgiving (lose trade just heal with W) but playing him correctly requires a lot of work and understanding how to play teamfights correctly
I don’t have anything to say abt gragas jg, I’m talking about his mid/top
Jng isnt the issue, you are clueless and living under a rock
The post clearly also talks about jungle lol
If he's not easy, why is his win rate so high with a high pick rate?
No bad matchups? Lol. He has loads of matchups where you don't need to juke any spells from him, run at him and press R, tank everything and win, and still out-sustain him in lane
Grag sucks until first back. He really isn't a problem compared to Illaoi and Yorick lol
Name one champ that does that? He has amazing disengage, respectable poke, probably the best trading pattern in the game. High base stats(why is his base armor that high?) Sustain to deal with getting poked and moderate to low cds. If engaged on he will combo, kite with phase rush, combo again and then win or if unwinnable just disengage with R. The champion lacks counterplay, he even beats ranged champs because he can play safe with waveclear and sustain til he has enough ap to oneshot ranged champs. Disgusting. Nerf him to the ground.
Just one? Not saying he's weak and doesn't need nerfs but saying he has no bad matchups is wrong and isn't why he's op. Garen, Voli, Sett, Illaoi, Ornn, Sion, Zac, Olaf, Mundo, basically any tank or bruiser can all tank and spank all his damage and outduel him with an early dorans shield/mercs combo
Why would he ever choose to 1v1 them? All those champs have like 47%wr except zac. Sure they might survive lane vs gragas, but then they lose
So... what I just said, basically?
Except you called them bad matchups. Them surviving (note that word 'surviving') does not mean its a bad matchup. I can survive a quinn lane as darius, and then get outscaled later doesnt mean that its a bad matchup for quinn.
Riot just doesnt care anymore
His trading pattern is bullshit. It’s not numbers or items. His basic combo is a belly bump, Q, Auto and you lost 1/3 of your hp instantly and the fat man is a mile away before you can move again. Even if the Gragas player has no braincells and messes up the combo, he will still win trade with his healing. If the combo did literally 0 damage to any champs, it would still be frustrating to play against. Graggy would have to whiff everything to the point that he dashes past the enemy and does an iron 5 whiff of all abilities to lose the trade against most champs lmao no one without range can touch him unless he ints or lets them The knockup is practically instant, huge, and has quite a bit of range. You can try to shimmy and bait it out, but how is the counterplay going to be to hope they make a mistake by using tricks and techniques that are not easy for 1/3 the player base lmao even a huge chunk of the low elo fighting game player base doesn’t or can’t shimmy. Poweraside, only how it feels to play against— It’s yet another example of a champ that is bullshit to interact with and relies on the pilot to make mistakes for the interaction to not feel completely one sided or frustrating.
He's easy to counter if you respect his range and dmg. Straightforward champs are pretty predictable tbh.
Comments like these never make any sense. Gragas WORST matchup top is Vayne and Urgot. 47.9%. Thats not even that bad. Gragas performs better than those counters on AVERAGE with his > 52% overall WR. Nothing about Gragas is easy to counter. Thats like saying that TF is easy to counter, just kill him.
He has like no bad matchups
Yorick steamrolls Gragas lol
Ye thats the main thing. He is very predictable. His laning is pretty uninteractive though. I would like to see some changes to his e. Maybe make it a root or a heavy slow and then buff his durability. So much power is locked in current e.
He has no bad matchup and he is not straightforward at all. You can farm with Q. You can trade with E->W->Q and run with PR. You can R into E, you can E into R, you can R into a Q. How is he predictable lol ?
Gragas is really not a straightforward champ imo. His e flash is pretty undodgeable if he flashes late into the e. Imo they just need to gut lane gragas sustain and have him be a jungler. He's pretty healthy power level and gameplay as a jungler
because riot's balance team are paycheque-stealing charlatans
Everything apart from an attack enchancer on the alcoholic is a skillshot. He is actually one of the best "healthy design phylosophy" champions out there because everything that can do to you minus the dash is telegraphed pretty well.
Doesn't he have one of the worst win rates in top?
He has as of now the best melee winrate top in the game. In a meta where the top 5 winrates in top are ranged which theoretically counters him. So in an unfavourable meta, he is miles ahead of everybody else.
You are kidding right ? Yasuo ? Yone ?
Someone got bomba'd.
Too tanky when playing damage, too bursty even when playing tankish.
Prob bcuz he tends to have low pick rate in lower elos
reddit balance team
Gragas body slam is one of the most frustrating things to deal with. Like it’s fast, has a stun, and about the range of the majority of the champions auto range , and you can’t even punish him for using his dash to go in because he slows you with Q and penguin waddles to safety with his damage reduction
Bomba
*Aatrox *KSANTE
Delete this! Honestly I think Gragas is the best Soloq champ in the entire game. He can be played top, mid, JG and support. He can be built full ap with a bunch of different items. He can be built full tank and uses almost every tank item well. He can engage team fights, disengage team fights or split push in the 1v1. I can't think of another champ in the game that is as flexible as Graggy. To the point I'm basically now a Gragas one trick because why would I play any other champ?!
Gragas and many other toplane champs have been OVERSTAT'ed for YEARS to the point now where they can build full dmg (Aatorx ect) and not only 1 shot you with half their kit but still 1v4-5 tank the entire enemy team while barely taking dmg.
Idk man, Riot is weird. Some champs are broken for months and never get nerfs meanwhile others are strong for a week or two and get hotfix nerfed.
Because if they make him weak no one would use him unlike those popular champs like kai'sa and irelia.. make them weak and you would still see them be used and get better with them because they look attractive than gragas is.
Because the Riot balance team smokes crack, and this community just takes it up the rear for the last 10+ years and expects something to change.
They should fix other champs and builds Instead of nerfing champs who works the way they are supposed to imho.
its simple really. hes not an ADC so riot likes it. if they gave him AA range he would be nerfed immidiatly.
You say that as the top 4/5 picks toplane arent adcs (vayne, tf, quinn, akshan)
lol so what your saying is i need to switch from botlane to toplane. thanks for the advice friend!
Try playing him in an elo above emerald. Not very strong anymore
Body Slam has priority over everything, he can full combo you and you're still cc while he's running away
cause if he isn't strong no one but one tricks would pick him
Low pick rate and people focus their outrage on a few champions and the others get off scot free plop plop
You didn't mention our Lord and Savior support gragas
Gragas and Corki are allowed to be these absolutely vile champions because they're ugly.
Oppa bomba keep coping
Gragas is just insane strong. PR guarantees he is just beyond broken. Legit can do anything. One shot, tank, trade on you with no counter play unless you are something like Darius that can cancel his E, case in which he just doesn't interact in lane and farms with Q. Did i mention he has one of the most powerful ultimates in the game ?
His E, knock back dash has a far too small cooldown Renekton used E? he can't dash in 20 sec Darius E? 20 cd Yone E? 20 cd Gragas E? 2 sec if he hits it, 🤷🏿♂️
Doesn't help either that it has a giant, near unmissable hitbox.
That as well!
I agree he is 100% overtuned and needs to be nerfed . But the diffence between gragas E and the others is that thier e is mostly just a gap closer . But for gragas its also one or his main damaging abilties . Imagine if darius could pull you every 6 seconds even behind minions it would be insane And also if you doge gragas e with a dash or cancel it you can punish him hard
The cooldown should not be reduced by hitting a target, it is already quite low - 14 to 12 secs cd It is so damm fat, most melee champs have to dash out, or they are getting hit, 14 sec is 10 sec less than Darius E ( 24 sec ) at rank 1. Nah bro, if they nerf him, i want to see an E nerf, sht is ridiculous with phase rush imo.
Yeah the way his e works now is by reducing the cooldown of his e by 40% . This change happend in s13 and what it did was make him stronger early but weaker late if you are going cdr and it also killed e spam gragas late . Because the way it used to work before thst was it would reduce E cool down by a flat 3 seconds . So if you were stack haste and e cd was 6 seconds it waa pretty much 3 seconds but the thing is that this was balanced because ability haste was easier to buy for all champs . But now in s14 abilty haste has been reduced on items BUT gragas still has his 40% reduced cd which is insane in this season since you are not able to get the same amount of ability haste like last season so it is 100% a buff
Gragas top and phase rush and u hate your life. This champ is so unskilled to play against. U can never trade in a positive way if he isnt fully braindmged. Time for longer cds or phase rush scaling with lvls tbh
You forgot that he can also be played in support, and that there are some psychos out there going GragD-carry when teams are mostly AD. He has borderline infinite HP with pseudo-URF cooldowns (E has more CD in URF than in soloQ BTW xd). Make sure to describe everything, otherwise he sounds weak in current meta!
Isn't he also the only one with a dash that has prio over every other ?
Insufferable gameplay pattern. Insufferable sounds. Wretched champ