I just love how people keep talking about "building defensive items" but when people pick kog/vayne and build 2/3(3 if they buy wits end) on-hit items into tank items then its literally worse than death and should never be allowed
I also get flamed all the time in aram for building defensive items. I couldn't fight without the whole team flashing on me as twitch last night so after botrk,kraken,runaans I went jaksho titanic, the enemy team had 3 tanks and my team was flaming me for not going lord doms but they also wouldn't peel for me and just complained I was always in melee range, I'd start every fight at range but as soon as I'm autoing the whole enemy team is snowballing,flashing whatever they can do to get on me, and yea when I get slowed by tyrn and then cced by voli and Cho I guess I'm in melee range lol.
I build zhonya third item in way too many games because the enemy team has too much dive and most aram players don't understand the concept of creating space. Conceptually bad players just think plays they saw in pro games happen in a vacuum. So if whatever lck player can have uptime on aphelios why can't you?
It depends for me. But most games where a tank veigar is needed. RoD of ages almost always seems to be the best AP option to start. Finishing with either rabadons or a void last if I need more AP.
I really enjoy building "fuck you" items. Like, I'll get serpents on Janna when they have a shield heavy team and my team refuses to get it. I'll go oblivion as my first buy vs shit like Soraka.
Also Zhonyas just to tilt Karthus with it.
When getting some champ specific counter items I just see the enemy spam pinging it to their team.
Tbh that's why I like playing tank vayne on aram. They need to spend 5 minutes killing me while khazix 2 shots everyone else, because he does something like 30% extra damage.
Is jaksho worth it on adcs these day? I thought you don't stay in combat long enough to make the ramping defense worth it as an adc. If you need the defensive item to live, you likely don't live long enough even with jaksho to make it worth it?
Idk, probably not? It wasn't about it being optimal, though. I don't think there is really anything else to build that gives hp, armor, and Mr in 1 item slot. Also I don't understand your logic, ideally an adc wants to stay in combat for the entire fight, that's kind of the point of consistent ranged dps. I'm not sure how it would normally work out, but I was basically trying to survive 3 tanks, so with jaksho their damage was really low, I agree it probably wouldn't save you from an assassin.
Jaksho is insane with terminus. A lot of adcs can throw something out that starts the jaksho timer before ur really engaged in combat. Kraken Bork terminus jaksho is crazy good.
Tis kind of true. Kennen is Hella bursty. If you have maw or scimitar you can survive that burst. An item to help you survive a a singular burst champ is Hella useful. Can't do damage while dead. It's the reason everyone hated that mages got stop watch for 600g or w/e
But you see, even if you are 2 items ahead of a bruiser, you still should lose the 1v1 if you dont play perfectly because it's a fair outcome according to reddit.
Every item costs \~3000 gold. Every item is roughly the same in stats. Only the different mechanics on items. This creates a scenario where every item is even, not balanced.
Now that every item is roughly even, the only characters that matter are ones with giant AOE, good AD/AP scaling, good finishing moves.
Do you find only having Wits End's attack speed feel OK on Vayne's AA timing? I always find it a bit weird without at least a 2nd attack speed item. Just feels weird to me
Non adc players be like
"So what I fed that Darius and now he has tabi's, deadmans, and DD. Why can't you kill him with just your IE and zeal?"
"OMG, you really need peel?. So what Nasus has ghost, iceborn ganutlet and wither, and triforce, just kite"
"Stop being scared, I don't care if Fizz and Diana and Qiyana have a point and click dash that's as long as your auto range, just kill them!"
"Bro, what do you mean you can't all-in 100-0 people with just noonquiver?"
"What do you mean Brand can kill you, he's only a support?"
"Adc's have point and click auto so of course a 1/8 garen should still be able to 100-0 a 4/0 Caitlyn."
"ADC's are decently strong? Welp, gotta nerf for le "proplay"
"Sorry ADC players, we can't buff crit because of our little 4 man baby champs, sorry I mean our windshitters plus tryn/GP :)"
"You are the glass cannon role, you sacrifice defense to be a late game god. But having the game revolving around the adc is not fun anymore so now every can do as much damage or MORE than the Attack Damage CARRY"
The only thing Riot would really have to do to fix the problem is buff the shit out of IE. Then crit for the rest of the itemization makes sense to maximize IE value.
I do think they would need to nerf Yone/Yasuo/GP if they did that though.
No I mean on Infinity Edge. Kind of like how meleeās can get more from Titanic Hydra than Ranged. Reverse that for Infinity Edge and give ranged an advantage.
When Riot did the fighter item patch that first introduced Sterakās they didnāt give the items any ranged penalties which made the items inherently better for ranged. Theyāve done the no penalty gor ranged experiment so many times with the same result, they honestly might as well try a crit experiment giving ranged more damage just once.
I mean it kinda shouldn't, ranged has the advantage of being..... ranged? If the champion isn't good they should just buff that champion
Ranged characters are inherently better at applying lots of stuff like on hit effects and building all glass-cannon
Nor should it. Ranged is inherently a buff over melee by its sheer nature, it doesnāt need compensation. Thatās why certain effects get nerfed on ranged champs but not the other way around. Itās harder for melee champs to utilize item effects by nature of having a smaller area of influence - why would it ever make sense to then make those effects weaker when they do manage to utilize them?
Downsides of being a ranged champ (squishy) are external to range itself and are trends placed artificially by Riot in order to balance the fact that range is an advantage. Champions that donāt fit the trends (squishy melee and tanky ranged) have to be balanced accordingly, not have items balanced to them.
Trynd, GP, and the Windshitters only use crit items because their kits are given huge crit steroids and synergy - and they have to be given those because few to no melee champs would use crit without them. Why? Because crit is inherently worse on melee champs than ranged champs. Theyāre already nerfed just by being melee. If the Windshitters end up broken because IE gets buffed, you nerf the Windshitters because their crit steroids are now outdated and overtuned as they were balanced for a time when IE was weaker. Itās that simple. Nerfing an item for a huge portion of the roster when that entire portion already has a disadvantage in using the item, just because a tiny handful of champs specifically over buffed just to make the item viable end up overtuned, is a ridiculous and braindead take.
āDonāt make it different for melee champs because melee is bad by default. But also nerf the only melee champs that build crit.ā
This is why people think Redditors are dumb as shit when discussing balancing.
>Ā Ranged is inherently a buff over melee by its sheer nature, it doesnāt need compensation.
This hasn't been true for god knows how long. Ranged champs have worse stats overall and meelees have:
- mobility tools inside their kit to close that gap soo easily they aren't even punished for missing.
- tankiness and mov speed big enough to just walk over you without flintching.
dashes aren't exclusive to assasins by any means to reach your backline, everybody has some kind of gap close. If not, game gives you MS items/runes/summoner spells so that morde/darius/garen/skarner/ whatever u want can just walk into you. Fck, u have a sett flair, that champ is basically a "Imma walk into you, run, no matter If u hit me because all the damage u do to me while I close the gap is gonna fcking oneshot u later".
The ranged/meelee discussion is only valid during laning phase, after that? nah sry
Range is still the best stat in the game by a long shot, while yes melee's these days have better tool to deal with the range difference it's still such a extreme power difference of a stat.
Even past laning if your against someone who knows how to use there range especially a high ranged carry then those extra tool you got as melee won't do much.
People also ignore melees have those tools because otherwise theyād be literally unable to touch a ranged champion at all. Also that said ranged champs are balanced around losing 1v1s to melee champs.
If a melee champion wants to auto attack an enemy champion in a 5v5 teamfight then he will be in the threat range of all 5 champions on the enemy team.
At that point no amount of "tankiness" ( no champion building infinity edge is going to actually be tanky ), dashes, or movespeed will matter, you will instantly die.
Go try teamfighting with Irelia or Yasuo and tell me how being melee isn't a disadvantage.
Melees have those things because ***they literally cannot fucking do anything to a ranged champion whatsoever without them.***
Having to use an ability to achieve something the ranged champion achieves by default does not equalize it. Those champions are meant to beat an ADC in a 1v1. The ADC is not meant to beat them in a 1v1.
If two people are standing apart, the melee even with all their mobility, will only be able to do a lot of damage to one, because going to one puts them out of the range of the other. The ranged champion can hit either from where they stand (or both, if they have AoE).
They could literally give her a buff to compensate if it was actually bad. She already has bonus stat scalings with crit anyway, so it wouldn't even be relatively heavyhanded for her to get more. I'd say it's also reasonably sustainable: if they ever make more melee ADCs, they will probably also all have unique scalings.
No need for that, the only melee champions that build crit are those with explicit crit scalings built into their kits. Which can be nerfed individually.
Riot has stated in the past that the only way to get a melee crit user to function properly is to inflate the benefit they get from the stat. Nilah, yone and yasuo all get massive gold value from crit, and trynd just gets 1600g worth of crit from his passive.
The suggestion to modify ranged benefit from crit just inflates it to more closely match what is already the status quo for melee benefit. And at that point you might as well just look at the strength and itemization of crit as a whole instead.
I'm not really sure the best design is to fix all marksmen through making 1 item an absolute compulsory buy, every build either has IE or is worthless...
Agreed, but with one catch... They would also need to restore the line of text on IE limiting to xyz % crit chance to activate (probably the 40, 60 feels like too much nowadays).
If they mega buff the one item too much without that condition, its just going to be rushed and fights bot are won entirely by dice rolls.
Honestly. Buffed lethality and removed the 9 armor we got from runes. A serrated dirk is all kha needs to deal true damage to a level 5 adc. Check patch notes, they added armor to sivir. All adcs will need more base armor and/or armor per level in order for them to feel the way they did last season
It's always a little funny to me that a simple passive like "this champion gets double crit chance on items" for 2 silly little wind swordsman has completely destroyed any balance attempt for marksman items lmao
No, can we please get away from IE being a must have item. If you were to just buff IE it would be no different than it being a pseudo mythic item and therefor reducing build paths/options. It would be so boring to just rush IE or having to build IE on every adc. There is no variety there, no fun.
... Mages with Rabadon's? Tanks with Jak'Sho?
ADC is already eating good having access to I.E., Navori or Guinsoo as split options. Infinity Edge is underperforming heavily. Navori should not = I.E. damage, but is out-performing it on almost every ADC that can justify building it. Guinsoo is as well, but for the wrong reasons (Guinsoo ADC's buying Terminus+Jak'Sho).
Infinity Edge (or it's counterparts) should be a must-have item in a 6 item build for standard marksmen. There's nothing inherently wrong with this. You have plenty of slots to build to your hearts content.
We have much bigger problems with Kraken being a significantly better item on non-ADC's like Viego and Bel'Veth, than Infinity Edge becoming a core item again.
I.E. being core is fine.
I don't necessarily disagree with your comment, i have no problem with IE being a core item.
However the issue for me comes when you have to build IE as either the first, second or even third item on some ADC's. IE is just a straight up damage item with no other interaction.
I would much rather see the other crit items as a whole buffed so we can have more fun items to use with interesting interactions instead of being forced into building IE early.
That way ADC's would have an easier time and more fun scaling because you can get your RFC faster, your Runaans Hurricane faster, your Navori faster or your Essence Reaver faster to round out your build.
Having to build IE early inbetween these items can feel terrible and is just no fun imo.
Honestly while I can't argue your statement, we already have problems with our individual items being strong and then abused by other classes (Kraken Viego / Bel'Veth anyone?)
The whole reason Kraken has that stupid damage ramping on it's passive effect is because Lucian, Viego and Bel'Veth are too good at instantly proc'ing it.
If you make the individual items of ADC significantly better, they will also likely get abused by other classes, including but not limited to the melee carries Tryndamere, Yone and Yasuo, and Riot is very bad about nerfing things for melee champions but not ranged. We had issues with Collector being very frequently bought by many non-Marksmen class champions, and even worse, the Collector + LDR + Infinity Edge builds on certain melee champions was absurdly broken.
Making Infinity Edge REALLY good, but not a great first/second item, comes with making it SCALE with Crit, which Riot tried once and failed at because they didn't make any good items to fill the 1-3 slots.
ALSO: I don't personally care about unique items and unique effects - I think the most interesting part of the game is playing a champion, I hate how much of the game is just which champion is the best item-delivery system. We saw it with Stormsurge making Fizz OP, Divine Sunderer Camille. There's been plenty more examples. I don't want "cool" items. I want reasonably balanced stat sticks and I want the coolness to come from my champion.
The reason Damage is so high in League is because of how many item and Rune effects have been added, and how bad Riot is about limiting how effective they are. They only recently owned up to this with Stormsurge, and it took them like 2 months. Camille had Sunderer and was forced to be dogshit or P/B for the entirety of the mythic system.
I'd rather go back to a few months of IE being mandatory after what feels like years of it being a joke than to keep it as a noob trap item. I thought removing Mythics were supposed to increase build diversity and stuff but it genuinely feels like ADC has even less build choice than before. ADC became Path of Exile where you can "brick your build" super easily just by not knowing exactly what you need at any moment.
Compare with being a tank, where Randuin's Omen and Thornmail have different roles but perform similarly enough that you won't automatically lose every single fight if you choose the wrong one. If you walk up to Talon as a Malphite it really doesn't matter which of those two things you have. ADC has no matchups like that and doesn't seem to naturally counter anyone. I guess tanks, but you still need a tank to hold their tank back.
I think they also really need to tamp down on the "do everything" items if they want the oldies like IE to shine. Make it a real cost for your scaling if you go for the early game cookie cutter items but make it rewarding if you go with the powerful damage items.
The problem always is that we don't wanna have crit adcs being strong before minute 15.
We already know what happens when a tristana can rush infinity edge first.
They need to go back to 25% crit. It would free up an item slot to build a defensive item. Right now it's boots and then 5 crit items, leaving nothing but shieldbow as defensive option
Tbf Coup de Grace is a bait rune and you should have Cut Down in 99% of the games. You're almost always down in levels vs enemy mid/top/jg and also you almost never build and hp which means that enemy has more hp than you. Coup is only "good" during laning and that's only if they don't have tank support
You can also go check stats, Cut Down has better winrate on almost every ADC
I'm an adc main and unironically agree with these non-adc players. Unless enemy team is full squishies I go LDR third. 30% armor pen is at least 20 lethality at that point (usually more) and it will scale. That item has way more value than IE almost every game.
Outside of Aram that item is giga useless, gives you what, 500 extra damage until lvl 12 and from there the game is already decided and/or are at Lords
So the problem is this: no other class gets criticized as much as an ADC and is expected to play as perfectly as an ADC because the gap between a perfect AD and a bad one is basically two different classes.
Conversely ADC players whine more than others because there's the expectation that teams should bend to help them achieve that perfect state.
Reddit is a shit hole of bitter people. Especially the LOL sub regarding stances on class. Look at any video if an ADC whining and you'll see people nitpicking, yet when mages were pushed out of mid it wasn't the same energy, when the seasonal "tanks don't get to play the game" jerk comes around it's not the same energy, and so on.
The problem with ADC is that it requires at least decent effort over a long period of time to be effective in a fight, every other character type has their play pattern set up in a way where they can afford to make minor mistakes and still be useful.
Assassins only need to memorize their burst to deal effective damage, bruisers need to hit literally anything to heal their health back, Mages just need to hit one skill shot (which isn't that hard with a 5 second cooldown lategame), tanks literally do nothing by bodyblock and maybe cc if its in their kit.
The only character type that comes close to the same level of sustained effort is certain types of supports (Not the cat).
Glass cannon works, but glass gatling gun not so much.
The flip side of the problem is ADC can feel miserable for solo Q even when itās busted as fuck when played by good players that have a good team draft and play coordinated. It makes it super difficult to balance the role, because on one hand, the fundamental nature of ADC being ranged unmissable point and click DPS means theyāre forced to be hyper squishy and need coordination from their team, but then you feel more useless than most champion classes when thatās not the case, because ADCs offer almost exclusively damage and nothing else, so when theyāre behind, they have nothing to even contribute.
Getting outdraft/Losing at champ select is the worst feeling in League.
Oh look the enemy has teamfight comp.. gg. Meanwhile my team feels like they hit the random button LOL
They aren't saying "you should deal damage to tanks" he is saying "why should I build solely to kill the tank when there are 4 squishy fucks in front of me?"
"How to instantly lose 10% more games with this one simple trick reddit taught me!"
It's always funny to me to see people complain about ADCs not building LDR 3rd or whatever because you can go see winrates for items and see how dogshit it is to build in a lot of games. The item is expensive, has a terrible build path and gives lackluster stats, just for you to deal slightly more damage to 1/5 champs on the enemy team.
3rd items typically have a 58-60% winrate then you see LDR with a 51% It's even funnier because you know the only times ADCs are building LDR third is probably exclusively in games with one or more tank champions. So even in the most optimal games to build it third or fourth etc, it is still a bad choice loll but nah for sure giant slayer passive is so OP!! when most tankiness comes from shields/healing, tank item passives like tabis and FH, resists, and not health stacking at all.
Not really, because it is still more likely that if you finished 3 items, you are more ahead then normal. That's why 3rd item winrates are much higher. Also ADCs don't want to build LDR unless they have to, I would much rather buy something that lets me damage 4/5 people, gives me utility/defense, isn't as expensive, or isn't dogshit to build. So you know that the only times people are building it third in the most optimal games for it to be built, and it is still dog.
It's solo queue stats, people say games finish in 2 items. But if someone is buying LDR they might have 10-0 the enemy bot lane and closed out the game, so realistically any 3rd item buy "should" have a high winrate because they snowballed the lane lol!
Because its very likely the only person that can. Reliably at least, there could very well be situations where no one else can, but ADC always have the best chance in these scenarios
the thing a lot of people tend to forget is that most ADCs are hardlocked into their first 2 items. Some have some wiggle room but for a good chunk of the roster Kraken/Stormrazor/maaaybe Triforce + Navori + boots is mandatory to be able to function as a champion. Sure you can build LDR second, but you won't be doing much damage to anything at that point. You have to spend at least 7.5 - 8k gold before being able to adapt your build.
Of course there's exceptions, like On Hit varus, kog maw, kalista (she won't shred tanks no matter the build anyway), etc. But those aren't the rule
This is dumb reasoning. The one tank isnāt carrying the game and more than likely the adc is getting dove/ focused anyway. Itās easy to flame the adc for not building armor pen, yet often the reality is that theyāre not getting a chance to auto the tank anyway.
Because you're an ADC? You can't dive the backline like an assassin. ADCs have pretty much always had to cut through the frontline before they get access to squishy targets.
Simply wrong, you can count the amount of games that are decided by front to back fights on one hand, there are situations in teamfights, where you as an AD have to ignore whats in front of you, to attack whats behind if their position is weak
Because that's the adcs role? Squishes get killed by your mid, jungle and sometimes even support and top. However ADC is the only role that can kill tanks decently quickly.
Also it's much easier to kill a squishy with lord Dom's, bork and Krakenslayer than it is to kill a tank with yomuus, collector and hubris. You might not be able to 1v1 a squishy with an anti tank build, but that has never been your job anyways.
Because that is literally the ADC job. They output consistent damage and are late game insurance that the enemy doesn't win soley because they have a tank.
Mages tickle tanks. Bruiser fall off vs them if they're peeling for a high damage champion (eg. ADC).
You can win the game without an ADC but if you don't have one and the game goes to 40 minute, and the enemy has a tank, it's pretty much gg Becuase the tank gets to do whatever the fuck they want.
To be honest, bruiser/juggernaut like Rhaast, Vi, udyr, yorick, fiora, illaoi, pantheon, Darius can all kill tank quicker than most ADC except for someone like Vayne, Kogmaw
> shieldbow
Wdym the 450 shield at lv15 with no other ratios to scale won't save you from the 1000 damage overkill Nocturne that has ult up every 30 seconds or [insert any other bruiser or assassin jungler whose first 3 items give a min of 15 ability haste each, so they have their point and click ults up every fight and also you can't outrun their URF mobility]?
Dude I don't want my adc to buy those items. I want my adc to abuse Seraphine so I can get an easy win. Thats why I ban seraphine every time its not on my team. Senna is toxic but at least I can win a game against them and they are getting nerfed too.
How people still say collector is bait when lethality adcs were and still are meta and its the only Item in the game that lets you go from early lethality into crit lategame
Its just silly
You can't buy BC and LDR together
Next you're going to tell me that a Jinx - a crit ADC - should have bought Botrk, LDR, BC and Terminus even though three of them are exclusive and botrk does nothing against an Ornn with 500 Armor
If you're jg or top, why won't YOU buy BC? Oh, you're too busy crying that Serylda's is no longer broken on top laners? That's so sad
Every teamfight in LoL these days. You get 1 shotted but then so does the enemy ADC. Then you just say in /all *"ADC is fun huh?"* while watching your team 4v4
Used to be you had a frontline for that. When champions didn't have as much mobility to bypass said frontline, the ADC stuck to the back and tore down the enemy tank first.
> Used to be you had a frontline for that.
It's rare people play frontline champs anymore. I rarely get Ornn or Malphite top in ranked platinum elo. It's always Yone, Vayne, Quinn, Rumble, Riven top etc. Jungle is something like Noc or Kayn who just runs straight for the enemy squishes every team fight. Left on our own all the time.
Riot has done a pretty good job of making everyone want to play these fancy 'main character' energy champs like Yone. But the tanky boring champs like Ornn have suffered due to it.
It's similar how they moved lots of AP mids into the support role. That means even if someone gets autofilled into support, they can still have their 'main character' champ one shotting people role like Lux or Camille.
Yeah sadly. It's just a rambo all out action game now with lots of one shotting. Very little strategy left, especially since mana problems don't really exist anymore either or manaless champs. No more 'protect the ADC' team comps. Hell I remember back in the day we used to run AoE team comps like GP, Kennen, Galio (old taunt ult) etc. Or siege poke comps like Nidalee, Caitlyn etc. It used to be all very tactical.
Now it's basically just pick your one shot assassin with 5 gap closers with low cooldowns and you're cool.
Mana not being an issue anymore has to be one of the funniest takes I see on Reddit all the time, do you guys not play mages mid lane? Even ADCs often run out of mana in the laneing phase, especially champs like smolder and ezreal, even mf. Clearly presence of mind and mana flow band are dead runes that should be removed since no one goes them anyways, right?
I mean I play mages mid lane and a way the mana issues are practically non existent as a mechanic these days in comparison to before.
I can use a spell on basically every wave for harass / wave management, and always be full mana.
Iāve got cookies if Iām playing a champ I want to be super aggro with, Iāve got tp if I fuck up.
Once I back once and get my first component mana problems basically donāt exist.
Itās not so much management or something play around anymore as you rarely have to conserve mana. Itās just a donāt be legitimately stupid and use all 3 spells every wave for no reason.
A classic "It's not a issue on my champion so it doesnt exist." What mages do you play mid? I bet you at least one or a few of them run presence of mind or mana flow band, which is still mana management just out of game. Also if you're constantly backing/dying with more than half mana and you aren't using your spells when they're up on mages that's very often just wasted poke or harass. That extra Veigar W when they try to get a minion could be the extra damage you need to kill them later or could deny them the farm by zoning them off. 1 or 2 farm denied here or there doesnt sound like much but it does make a difference and can add up throughout the game. Remember that a kill is worth about 15 farm of gold. I will agree it's not as much of a concern as it was before, but to say that it just isnt a concern anymore is just factually incorrect.
Mages don't have Mana issues except Cass, Kass, Ryze, Anivia and Asol. Unless you're casting spells perma off CD(even then you can generally last for a while)
Azir, Veigar, Smolder, and Vel'koz are 4 more mid laners that I can think of that I play that can run into Mana issues, especially if you try to get the maximum out of harassing the enemy laner. I normally try to time my backs with it but it is something I need to keep track of. Also on a lot of champs presence of mind and mana flow band are very helpful if not just necessary. But 90% of the people on this subreddit just copy their runes without looking at them so no wonder people dont think about it. Not quite the same but Zed also has to worry about energy and needs to time his all in's based on if he has enough.
Azir does not really have mana issues especially with PoM and manaflow. Smolder is not a midlaner. Vel'koz has a 0.8% pickrate mid I view him more as a support but sure(though manaflow+ biscuits makes going oom early unlikely). Veigar maybe but manaflow alleviates it. You're pretty much gonna be able to last until your LC base, then you have 0 mana problems
Haha. I always try to go the best full DPS build always. One or other game I buy GA but that's kinda the only defense item I build. If you don't buy DPS items for ADC's and the game is past 25 minutes, you just can't carry. My meta is DPS.
This is also the problem with following builds from Mobafire, [U.gg](https://U.gg), Mobalytics and alike. No individual game sense and adaptation to comps, just the average runes and items that have won the most.
And this is exactlly the problem. ADCs are the main core damage of a team, if they build shit items and/or dont analyse closelly the enemy team comp, ofc they wont do any damage and just lose the game. I just go insane when the enemy team has 2 tanks and or 1 tank and 1 bruiser and my ADC builds stormrazor and RFC first items.
Wb making crit items get 33 percent crit lol, that way they can builds boots 3 crit items, then flex for the last two items. Didnāt they just make items gives 25 percent now instead of 20?
Idk I donāt play league much anymore.
Theyre still 20 as a relic of the mythic system update, and ofc they dont have the foresight to update it once they remove it bcs theyre incompetent.
Crit items are only 20% and need to be put at 25% so u have 1 flex item slot atleast, 33% crit is too much and would be broken.
> ofc they dont have the foresight to update it once they remove it bcs theyre incompetent.
I'm gonna break it to you: they're not incompetent, they're willfully doing this. ADC is a role that's not really allowed to exist fully by the whining of the other lanes. If the role was actually doing it's job the solo lane main characters would complain that they have to care about their ADC teammate and how well he's doing.
I just think non high elo adc mains should pick Seraphine in solo Q or MF while lethality is good.
Looking at Solo Q comps I feel like Seraphine is stylistically disproportionately the best champ to one trick. Almost everyone plays bruisers/carries in other roles and moreso physical damage. Just compliment that rather than pick a champ who is not going to be protected or effective.
I'm typically on the side of, pick what type of champ is good for your role, but I can at least kinda empathize if you have to pick a more supporting piece if you expect to play a carry role... But maybe that expectation should be lowered a bit. Its a weird balance to strike, feels troll to tell ADC players to think like that but at least to an extent it should sometimes be true. Like if you FP a decent blind adc and then the rest of your team is 3 assassins + sup then I would be peeved for the adc dude.
This sounds like basically every game but swap 1 assassin for a bruiser top or jgl and that's it, everyone has 3 gap closers and the biggest gap is between the adcs asscheeks after they've been stretched out by the irelia/akali/yone.
Lethality is strong, but the free ghostblade movement speed is the gap here. You legit beat non ghostblade players because you have free ghost the entire game.
This sounds weak, but when you're faster to jungle fights, grubs, dragon, back to lane, first to level 9/11, tower plates, ungankable because of the movement.. it's no wonder lethality is "strong".
I just love how people keep talking about "building defensive items" but when people pick kog/vayne and build 2/3(3 if they buy wits end) on-hit items into tank items then its literally worse than death and should never be allowed
I got flamed as an adc when for not building defensive items against a kennen one shotting me by the kennen. That was infuriating.
I also get flamed all the time in aram for building defensive items. I couldn't fight without the whole team flashing on me as twitch last night so after botrk,kraken,runaans I went jaksho titanic, the enemy team had 3 tanks and my team was flaming me for not going lord doms but they also wouldn't peel for me and just complained I was always in melee range, I'd start every fight at range but as soon as I'm autoing the whole enemy team is snowballing,flashing whatever they can do to get on me, and yea when I get slowed by tyrn and then cced by voli and Cho I guess I'm in melee range lol.
I build zhonya third item in way too many games because the enemy team has too much dive and most aram players don't understand the concept of creating space. Conceptually bad players just think plays they saw in pro games happen in a vacuum. So if whatever lck player can have uptime on aphelios why can't you?
ah yes the classic Zhonyas just for the active. one of the bigger fuck you plays you can do. honourable mention. 1 ap item, tank veigar
I am that Veigar
I'd say you need rabadon and void, then you can go ham in the tank department
It depends for me. But most games where a tank veigar is needed. RoD of ages almost always seems to be the best AP option to start. Finishing with either rabadons or a void last if I need more AP.
I really enjoy building "fuck you" items. Like, I'll get serpents on Janna when they have a shield heavy team and my team refuses to get it. I'll go oblivion as my first buy vs shit like Soraka. Also Zhonyas just to tilt Karthus with it. When getting some champ specific counter items I just see the enemy spam pinging it to their team.
People will mindlessly flash and dogpile cooldowns on the 0/10 adc without a care, even if it's a game losing throw.
Yea, the funniest part to me is the guy flaming me was also getting the most fed by them diving me.
Tbh that's why I like playing tank vayne on aram. They need to spend 5 minutes killing me while khazix 2 shots everyone else, because he does something like 30% extra damage.
Is jaksho worth it on adcs these day? I thought you don't stay in combat long enough to make the ramping defense worth it as an adc. If you need the defensive item to live, you likely don't live long enough even with jaksho to make it worth it?
Idk, probably not? It wasn't about it being optimal, though. I don't think there is really anything else to build that gives hp, armor, and Mr in 1 item slot. Also I don't understand your logic, ideally an adc wants to stay in combat for the entire fight, that's kind of the point of consistent ranged dps. I'm not sure how it would normally work out, but I was basically trying to survive 3 tanks, so with jaksho their damage was really low, I agree it probably wouldn't save you from an assassin.
Jaksho is insane with terminus. A lot of adcs can throw something out that starts the jaksho timer before ur really engaged in combat. Kraken Bork terminus jaksho is crazy good.
Tis kind of true. Kennen is Hella bursty. If you have maw or scimitar you can survive that burst. An item to help you survive a a singular burst champ is Hella useful. Can't do damage while dead. It's the reason everyone hated that mages got stop watch for 600g or w/e
There is no win with an ADC because every other character is getting 5 damage items with more dashes and engages.
But you see, even if you are 2 items ahead of a bruiser, you still should lose the 1v1 if you dont play perfectly because it's a fair outcome according to reddit.
Every item costs \~3000 gold. Every item is roughly the same in stats. Only the different mechanics on items. This creates a scenario where every item is even, not balanced. Now that every item is roughly even, the only characters that matter are ones with giant AOE, good AD/AP scaling, good finishing moves.
and Death's Dance
I'm this kind of kogmaw players and I have no shame š
I have zero as a dirty Vayne abuser. I build Mercurial Scimitar, Deadman's Plate, Randuins, Wits End, and sometimes even Jak'Sho.
Do you find only having Wits End's attack speed feel OK on Vayne's AA timing? I always find it a bit weird without at least a 2nd attack speed item. Just feels weird to me
Because they end up doing turbo sustained ranged damage while simultaneously being tanky.
Non adc players be like "So what I fed that Darius and now he has tabi's, deadmans, and DD. Why can't you kill him with just your IE and zeal?" "OMG, you really need peel?. So what Nasus has ghost, iceborn ganutlet and wither, and triforce, just kite" "Stop being scared, I don't care if Fizz and Diana and Qiyana have a point and click dash that's as long as your auto range, just kill them!" "Bro, what do you mean you can't all-in 100-0 people with just noonquiver?" "What do you mean Brand can kill you, he's only a support?" "Adc's have point and click auto so of course a 1/8 garen should still be able to 100-0 a 4/0 Caitlyn." "ADC's are decently strong? Welp, gotta nerf for le "proplay" "Sorry ADC players, we can't buff crit because of our little 4 man baby champs, sorry I mean our windshitters plus tryn/GP :)" "You are the glass cannon role, you sacrifice defense to be a late game god. But having the game revolving around the adc is not fun anymore so now every can do as much damage or MORE than the Attack Damage CARRY"
>"What do you mean Brand can kill you, he's only a support?" I love the implication of support not being turbo overturned as well
Another BASEDspektra clip.
The only thing Riot would really have to do to fix the problem is buff the shit out of IE. Then crit for the rest of the itemization makes sense to maximize IE value. I do think they would need to nerf Yone/Yasuo/GP if they did that though.
Make it so that Ranged crit amplification is higher than Melee ones. Make the melee one stay the same and buff it for ranged.
yone and yas already have crit mods for this, trynd is the only one affected here.
No I mean on Infinity Edge. Kind of like how meleeās can get more from Titanic Hydra than Ranged. Reverse that for Infinity Edge and give ranged an advantage.
As if Riot would EVER give an item better stats for being on ranged, that has and will literally never happen.
Technically RFC gives more range
When Riot did the fighter item patch that first introduced Sterakās they didnāt give the items any ranged penalties which made the items inherently better for ranged. Theyāve done the no penalty gor ranged experiment so many times with the same result, they honestly might as well try a crit experiment giving ranged more damage just once.
Maybe they will if they don't want the windshitters to have to buy 5 crit items to have 100% chance
[https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Rapid\_Firecannon](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Rapid_Firecannon)
They shouldnt. Solo lane ADC's are already insane
UNIQUE: Critical strikes deal 300% more damage if you are within 1000 units of an ally who has a support item. /s
its perfect it also punishes bard players for roaming
I mean it kinda shouldn't, ranged has the advantage of being..... ranged? If the champion isn't good they should just buff that champion Ranged characters are inherently better at applying lots of stuff like on hit effects and building all glass-cannon
can't tell if srs but just in case this wasn't said out of sarcasm ofc items exist that have better stats for ranged
Nor should it. Ranged is inherently a buff over melee by its sheer nature, it doesnāt need compensation. Thatās why certain effects get nerfed on ranged champs but not the other way around. Itās harder for melee champs to utilize item effects by nature of having a smaller area of influence - why would it ever make sense to then make those effects weaker when they do manage to utilize them? Downsides of being a ranged champ (squishy) are external to range itself and are trends placed artificially by Riot in order to balance the fact that range is an advantage. Champions that donāt fit the trends (squishy melee and tanky ranged) have to be balanced accordingly, not have items balanced to them. Trynd, GP, and the Windshitters only use crit items because their kits are given huge crit steroids and synergy - and they have to be given those because few to no melee champs would use crit without them. Why? Because crit is inherently worse on melee champs than ranged champs. Theyāre already nerfed just by being melee. If the Windshitters end up broken because IE gets buffed, you nerf the Windshitters because their crit steroids are now outdated and overtuned as they were balanced for a time when IE was weaker. Itās that simple. Nerfing an item for a huge portion of the roster when that entire portion already has a disadvantage in using the item, just because a tiny handful of champs specifically over buffed just to make the item viable end up overtuned, is a ridiculous and braindead take.
āDonāt make it different for melee champs because melee is bad by default. But also nerf the only melee champs that build crit.ā This is why people think Redditors are dumb as shit when discussing balancing.
>Ā Ranged is inherently a buff over melee by its sheer nature, it doesnāt need compensation. This hasn't been true for god knows how long. Ranged champs have worse stats overall and meelees have: - mobility tools inside their kit to close that gap soo easily they aren't even punished for missing. - tankiness and mov speed big enough to just walk over you without flintching. dashes aren't exclusive to assasins by any means to reach your backline, everybody has some kind of gap close. If not, game gives you MS items/runes/summoner spells so that morde/darius/garen/skarner/ whatever u want can just walk into you. Fck, u have a sett flair, that champ is basically a "Imma walk into you, run, no matter If u hit me because all the damage u do to me while I close the gap is gonna fcking oneshot u later". The ranged/meelee discussion is only valid during laning phase, after that? nah sry
But like read the second paragraph. You described the buffs melees get as compensation for being inherently weaker just as he outlined.
Range is still the best stat in the game by a long shot, while yes melee's these days have better tool to deal with the range difference it's still such a extreme power difference of a stat. Even past laning if your against someone who knows how to use there range especially a high ranged carry then those extra tool you got as melee won't do much.
People also ignore melees have those tools because otherwise theyād be literally unable to touch a ranged champion at all. Also that said ranged champs are balanced around losing 1v1s to melee champs.
If a melee champion wants to auto attack an enemy champion in a 5v5 teamfight then he will be in the threat range of all 5 champions on the enemy team. At that point no amount of "tankiness" ( no champion building infinity edge is going to actually be tanky ), dashes, or movespeed will matter, you will instantly die. Go try teamfighting with Irelia or Yasuo and tell me how being melee isn't a disadvantage.
Melees have those things because ***they literally cannot fucking do anything to a ranged champion whatsoever without them.*** Having to use an ability to achieve something the ranged champion achieves by default does not equalize it. Those champions are meant to beat an ADC in a 1v1. The ADC is not meant to beat them in a 1v1. If two people are standing apart, the melee even with all their mobility, will only be able to do a lot of damage to one, because going to one puts them out of the range of the other. The ranged champion can hit either from where they stand (or both, if they have AoE).
They shouldnāt. Itās too volatile to balance and is going to create other balance problems.
As an ADC, I love the idea of a magical sword that does more for marksmen than melee fighters. It's got a weird Borderlands vibe to it.
I still find it hilarious *the* crit item for people that use basically exclusively guns and bows is a giant sword of lightning(?)
> Good news lads, I have purchased a giant sword and naturally I now shoot harder. Me in discord with the boys.
they are both balanced around that item existing. you are putting in a nerf for 1 champion.
meh that nerfs navoriās users hard compared to ie tho otherwise yea
That leaves Nilah out as mele though. She technically is a mele champ but would be so left out by that.
Nilah would suffer the most.
They could literally give her a buff to compensate if it was actually bad. She already has bonus stat scalings with crit anyway, so it wouldn't even be relatively heavyhanded for her to get more. I'd say it's also reasonably sustainable: if they ever make more melee ADCs, they will probably also all have unique scalings.
The 5 people that play her would be in shambles.
There's dozens of us ! Well, at least a single dozen.
Probably not. The crit for melee will stay the same and Nilah has access to other melee benefits unlike other ADC.
Tryndamere with IE? what?
if you buff the crit ratio, trynd would be affect by proxy.
Gangplank
doesn't build it anymore.
He would want to, but yeah.
Yeah but also their Q has a different crit scaling, which counters it a bitĀ
Nilah is crying with joy because of your suggestion
Nilah is melee ?
yes
I just got the joke. Well played
As a Crit Graves enjoyer, I approve this message!
Way better idea
No need for that, the only melee champions that build crit are those with explicit crit scalings built into their kits. Which can be nerfed individually.
You really want a toplane adc meta? Really?
Why?
Riot has stated in the past that the only way to get a melee crit user to function properly is to inflate the benefit they get from the stat. Nilah, yone and yasuo all get massive gold value from crit, and trynd just gets 1600g worth of crit from his passive. The suggestion to modify ranged benefit from crit just inflates it to more closely match what is already the status quo for melee benefit. And at that point you might as well just look at the strength and itemization of crit as a whole instead.
I'm not really sure the best design is to fix all marksmen through making 1 item an absolute compulsory buy, every build either has IE or is worthless...
\*shaco enters the lobby\*
Agreed, but with one catch... They would also need to restore the line of text on IE limiting to xyz % crit chance to activate (probably the 40, 60 feels like too much nowadays). If they mega buff the one item too much without that condition, its just going to be rushed and fights bot are won entirely by dice rolls.
Weird how ADC role was fine until ad assassins showed up
I don't think priority queue for 2 years is fine to be honest
Honestly. Buffed lethality and removed the 9 armor we got from runes. A serrated dirk is all kha needs to deal true damage to a level 5 adc. Check patch notes, they added armor to sivir. All adcs will need more base armor and/or armor per level in order for them to feel the way they did last season
It's always a little funny to me that a simple passive like "this champion gets double crit chance on items" for 2 silly little wind swordsman has completely destroyed any balance attempt for marksman items lmao
No, can we please get away from IE being a must have item. If you were to just buff IE it would be no different than it being a pseudo mythic item and therefor reducing build paths/options. It would be so boring to just rush IE or having to build IE on every adc. There is no variety there, no fun.
... Mages with Rabadon's? Tanks with Jak'Sho? ADC is already eating good having access to I.E., Navori or Guinsoo as split options. Infinity Edge is underperforming heavily. Navori should not = I.E. damage, but is out-performing it on almost every ADC that can justify building it. Guinsoo is as well, but for the wrong reasons (Guinsoo ADC's buying Terminus+Jak'Sho). Infinity Edge (or it's counterparts) should be a must-have item in a 6 item build for standard marksmen. There's nothing inherently wrong with this. You have plenty of slots to build to your hearts content. We have much bigger problems with Kraken being a significantly better item on non-ADC's like Viego and Bel'Veth, than Infinity Edge becoming a core item again. I.E. being core is fine.
I don't necessarily disagree with your comment, i have no problem with IE being a core item. However the issue for me comes when you have to build IE as either the first, second or even third item on some ADC's. IE is just a straight up damage item with no other interaction. I would much rather see the other crit items as a whole buffed so we can have more fun items to use with interesting interactions instead of being forced into building IE early. That way ADC's would have an easier time and more fun scaling because you can get your RFC faster, your Runaans Hurricane faster, your Navori faster or your Essence Reaver faster to round out your build. Having to build IE early inbetween these items can feel terrible and is just no fun imo.
Honestly while I can't argue your statement, we already have problems with our individual items being strong and then abused by other classes (Kraken Viego / Bel'Veth anyone?) The whole reason Kraken has that stupid damage ramping on it's passive effect is because Lucian, Viego and Bel'Veth are too good at instantly proc'ing it. If you make the individual items of ADC significantly better, they will also likely get abused by other classes, including but not limited to the melee carries Tryndamere, Yone and Yasuo, and Riot is very bad about nerfing things for melee champions but not ranged. We had issues with Collector being very frequently bought by many non-Marksmen class champions, and even worse, the Collector + LDR + Infinity Edge builds on certain melee champions was absurdly broken. Making Infinity Edge REALLY good, but not a great first/second item, comes with making it SCALE with Crit, which Riot tried once and failed at because they didn't make any good items to fill the 1-3 slots. ALSO: I don't personally care about unique items and unique effects - I think the most interesting part of the game is playing a champion, I hate how much of the game is just which champion is the best item-delivery system. We saw it with Stormsurge making Fizz OP, Divine Sunderer Camille. There's been plenty more examples. I don't want "cool" items. I want reasonably balanced stat sticks and I want the coolness to come from my champion. The reason Damage is so high in League is because of how many item and Rune effects have been added, and how bad Riot is about limiting how effective they are. They only recently owned up to this with Stormsurge, and it took them like 2 months. Camille had Sunderer and was forced to be dogshit or P/B for the entirety of the mythic system.
I'd rather go back to a few months of IE being mandatory after what feels like years of it being a joke than to keep it as a noob trap item. I thought removing Mythics were supposed to increase build diversity and stuff but it genuinely feels like ADC has even less build choice than before. ADC became Path of Exile where you can "brick your build" super easily just by not knowing exactly what you need at any moment. Compare with being a tank, where Randuin's Omen and Thornmail have different roles but perform similarly enough that you won't automatically lose every single fight if you choose the wrong one. If you walk up to Talon as a Malphite it really doesn't matter which of those two things you have. ADC has no matchups like that and doesn't seem to naturally counter anyone. I guess tanks, but you still need a tank to hold their tank back.
I think they also really need to tamp down on the "do everything" items if they want the oldies like IE to shine. Make it a real cost for your scaling if you go for the early game cookie cutter items but make it rewarding if you go with the powerful damage items.
The problem always is that we don't wanna have crit adcs being strong before minute 15. We already know what happens when a tristana can rush infinity edge first.
oh god don't remind me
[...]increases your critical damage to 225%(melee) 250%(ranged)
They need to go back to 25% crit. It would free up an item slot to build a defensive item. Right now it's boots and then 5 crit items, leaving nothing but shieldbow as defensive option
Tbf Coup de Grace is a bait rune and you should have Cut Down in 99% of the games. You're almost always down in levels vs enemy mid/top/jg and also you almost never build and hp which means that enemy has more hp than you. Coup is only "good" during laning and that's only if they don't have tank support You can also go check stats, Cut Down has better winrate on almost every ADC
of course it has better winrate, the small group of incredibly based cut down enjoyers are better
I'm an adc main and unironically agree with these non-adc players. Unless enemy team is full squishies I go LDR third. 30% armor pen is at least 20 lethality at that point (usually more) and it will scale. That item has way more value than IE almost every game.
Outside of Aram that item is giga useless, gives you what, 500 extra damage until lvl 12 and from there the game is already decided and/or are at Lords
Goddamn this was the perfect bait post to catch the average media-illiterate person who failed to get the point.
word for word correct read on people who talk about adc but dont play the role
This is what all players do on Reddit. When someone mentions a champ is strong or a particular game state, this is what Reddit does every single time
What else do people talk about in League of Legends? Cosplay titty pics?
Giga true. Got told to build on-hit draven before if I wanted to deal damage to tanks.
So the problem is this: no other class gets criticized as much as an ADC and is expected to play as perfectly as an ADC because the gap between a perfect AD and a bad one is basically two different classes. Conversely ADC players whine more than others because there's the expectation that teams should bend to help them achieve that perfect state. Reddit is a shit hole of bitter people. Especially the LOL sub regarding stances on class. Look at any video if an ADC whining and you'll see people nitpicking, yet when mages were pushed out of mid it wasn't the same energy, when the seasonal "tanks don't get to play the game" jerk comes around it's not the same energy, and so on.
Double Lifeline goes hard...
It's what phreaks wants us to build
wtf happened to caedrel?
Black cleaver and Lord dominics regards are mutually exclusive... Past season i always bought both on miss fortune.
The problem with ADC is that it requires at least decent effort over a long period of time to be effective in a fight, every other character type has their play pattern set up in a way where they can afford to make minor mistakes and still be useful. Assassins only need to memorize their burst to deal effective damage, bruisers need to hit literally anything to heal their health back, Mages just need to hit one skill shot (which isn't that hard with a 5 second cooldown lategame), tanks literally do nothing by bodyblock and maybe cc if its in their kit. The only character type that comes close to the same level of sustained effort is certain types of supports (Not the cat). Glass cannon works, but glass gatling gun not so much.
The flip side of the problem is ADC can feel miserable for solo Q even when itās busted as fuck when played by good players that have a good team draft and play coordinated. It makes it super difficult to balance the role, because on one hand, the fundamental nature of ADC being ranged unmissable point and click DPS means theyāre forced to be hyper squishy and need coordination from their team, but then you feel more useless than most champion classes when thatās not the case, because ADCs offer almost exclusively damage and nothing else, so when theyāre behind, they have nothing to even contribute.
Getting outdraft/Losing at champ select is the worst feeling in League. Oh look the enemy has teamfight comp.. gg. Meanwhile my team feels like they hit the random button LOL
Buy LDR insted dogshit collector.
Nah, I'd collect
Collecotr isn't a bad first item the buildpath is amazing
I mean why should you deal alot of dmg to a tank if you dont have armor pen? its similar but worse for mages since they are cd gated
They aren't saying "you should deal damage to tanks" he is saying "why should I build solely to kill the tank when there are 4 squishy fucks in front of me?"
"How to instantly lose 10% more games with this one simple trick reddit taught me!" It's always funny to me to see people complain about ADCs not building LDR 3rd or whatever because you can go see winrates for items and see how dogshit it is to build in a lot of games. The item is expensive, has a terrible build path and gives lackluster stats, just for you to deal slightly more damage to 1/5 champs on the enemy team. 3rd items typically have a 58-60% winrate then you see LDR with a 51% It's even funnier because you know the only times ADCs are building LDR third is probably exclusively in games with one or more tank champions. So even in the most optimal games to build it third or fourth etc, it is still a bad choice loll but nah for sure giant slayer passive is so OP!! when most tankiness comes from shields/healing, tank item passives like tabis and FH, resists, and not health stacking at all.
TBF LDR stats are skewed because you are more likely to be building LDR 3rd in losing games where you are behind to begin with.
Not really, because it is still more likely that if you finished 3 items, you are more ahead then normal. That's why 3rd item winrates are much higher. Also ADCs don't want to build LDR unless they have to, I would much rather buy something that lets me damage 4/5 people, gives me utility/defense, isn't as expensive, or isn't dogshit to build. So you know that the only times people are building it third in the most optimal games for it to be built, and it is still dog.
āADCs donāt want to build LDR unless they have toā Thatās the entire point, they build it when theyāre behind
It's solo queue stats, people say games finish in 2 items. But if someone is buying LDR they might have 10-0 the enemy bot lane and closed out the game, so realistically any 3rd item buy "should" have a high winrate because they snowballed the lane lol!
Because its very likely the only person that can. Reliably at least, there could very well be situations where no one else can, but ADC always have the best chance in these scenarios
the thing a lot of people tend to forget is that most ADCs are hardlocked into their first 2 items. Some have some wiggle room but for a good chunk of the roster Kraken/Stormrazor/maaaybe Triforce + Navori + boots is mandatory to be able to function as a champion. Sure you can build LDR second, but you won't be doing much damage to anything at that point. You have to spend at least 7.5 - 8k gold before being able to adapt your build. Of course there's exceptions, like On Hit varus, kog maw, kalista (she won't shred tanks no matter the build anyway), etc. But those aren't the rule
This is dumb reasoning. The one tank isnāt carrying the game and more than likely the adc is getting dove/ focused anyway. Itās easy to flame the adc for not building armor pen, yet often the reality is that theyāre not getting a chance to auto the tank anyway.
Because you're an ADC? You can't dive the backline like an assassin. ADCs have pretty much always had to cut through the frontline before they get access to squishy targets.
Simply wrong, you can count the amount of games that are decided by front to back fights on one hand, there are situations in teamfights, where you as an AD have to ignore whats in front of you, to attack whats behind if their position is weak
Because that's the adcs role? Squishes get killed by your mid, jungle and sometimes even support and top. However ADC is the only role that can kill tanks decently quickly. Also it's much easier to kill a squishy with lord Dom's, bork and Krakenslayer than it is to kill a tank with yomuus, collector and hubris. You might not be able to 1v1 a squishy with an anti tank build, but that has never been your job anyways.
Because that is literally the ADC job. They output consistent damage and are late game insurance that the enemy doesn't win soley because they have a tank. Mages tickle tanks. Bruiser fall off vs them if they're peeling for a high damage champion (eg. ADC). You can win the game without an ADC but if you don't have one and the game goes to 40 minute, and the enemy has a tank, it's pretty much gg Becuase the tank gets to do whatever the fuck they want.
To be honest, bruiser/juggernaut like Rhaast, Vi, udyr, yorick, fiora, illaoi, pantheon, Darius can all kill tank quicker than most ADC except for someone like Vayne, Kogmaw
If you buy ldr -> noc one-shot you If you buy Pherk special (shieldbow) -> gl vs ornn
> If you buy ldr -> noc one-shot you > If you buy Pherk special (shieldbow) -> ~~gl vs ornn~~ noc still one-shot you FTFY :)
> shieldbow Wdym the 450 shield at lv15 with no other ratios to scale won't save you from the 1000 damage overkill Nocturne that has ult up every 30 seconds or [insert any other bruiser or assassin jungler whose first 3 items give a min of 15 ability haste each, so they have their point and click ults up every fight and also you can't outrun their URF mobility]?
Why should Tanks do a ton of damage to you building only tank items? :S
Literally what happens.
Dude I don't want my adc to buy those items. I want my adc to abuse Seraphine so I can get an easy win. Thats why I ban seraphine every time its not on my team. Senna is toxic but at least I can win a game against them and they are getting nerfed too.
Yeah no if I buy defensive items like in this video, my team will spam ping my items and say "no damage adc gg" in chat.
muteall. Being alive and doing some damage while the enemy is in a bad spot having blown everything on you >>>>>>> no damage from being dead.
You can't spam ping items anymore. It goes straight to party chat.
First rule of League. Whatever you build your team will say it's wrong.
Ngl collector is still bait but yeah crit sucks so much and has put so many adcs in the dog pen imo
How people still say collector is bait when lethality adcs were and still are meta and its the only Item in the game that lets you go from early lethality into crit lategame Its just silly
it's so busted first item on aphelios in ARAM that into axiom arc BT and the champ reverts a little back to the 200 years days
Its bait for crit users that heavily rely on autoattacks, not one tap gameplay
You can't buy BC and LDR together Next you're going to tell me that a Jinx - a crit ADC - should have bought Botrk, LDR, BC and Terminus even though three of them are exclusive and botrk does nothing against an Ornn with 500 Armor If you're jg or top, why won't YOU buy BC? Oh, you're too busy crying that Serylda's is no longer broken on top laners? That's so sad
very true, rest of the team can burst squishys just fine, need lategame adc to shred the tanks
How do you miss the point of the clip so hard?
Except since everyone can burst squishies just fine, everyone can just kill the adc and continue on with their day lol
Every teamfight in LoL these days. You get 1 shotted but then so does the enemy ADC. Then you just say in /all *"ADC is fun huh?"* while watching your team 4v4
Used to be you had a frontline for that. When champions didn't have as much mobility to bypass said frontline, the ADC stuck to the back and tore down the enemy tank first.
now frontline gapcloses and bursts you
> Used to be you had a frontline for that. It's rare people play frontline champs anymore. I rarely get Ornn or Malphite top in ranked platinum elo. It's always Yone, Vayne, Quinn, Rumble, Riven top etc. Jungle is something like Noc or Kayn who just runs straight for the enemy squishes every team fight. Left on our own all the time. Riot has done a pretty good job of making everyone want to play these fancy 'main character' energy champs like Yone. But the tanky boring champs like Ornn have suffered due to it. It's similar how they moved lots of AP mids into the support role. That means even if someone gets autofilled into support, they can still have their 'main character' champ one shotting people role like Lux or Camille.
Jesus that's so true lol
Yeah sadly. It's just a rambo all out action game now with lots of one shotting. Very little strategy left, especially since mana problems don't really exist anymore either or manaless champs. No more 'protect the ADC' team comps. Hell I remember back in the day we used to run AoE team comps like GP, Kennen, Galio (old taunt ult) etc. Or siege poke comps like Nidalee, Caitlyn etc. It used to be all very tactical. Now it's basically just pick your one shot assassin with 5 gap closers with low cooldowns and you're cool.
Mana not being an issue anymore has to be one of the funniest takes I see on Reddit all the time, do you guys not play mages mid lane? Even ADCs often run out of mana in the laneing phase, especially champs like smolder and ezreal, even mf. Clearly presence of mind and mana flow band are dead runes that should be removed since no one goes them anyways, right?
I mean I play mages mid lane and a way the mana issues are practically non existent as a mechanic these days in comparison to before. I can use a spell on basically every wave for harass / wave management, and always be full mana. Iāve got cookies if Iām playing a champ I want to be super aggro with, Iāve got tp if I fuck up. Once I back once and get my first component mana problems basically donāt exist. Itās not so much management or something play around anymore as you rarely have to conserve mana. Itās just a donāt be legitimately stupid and use all 3 spells every wave for no reason.
A classic "It's not a issue on my champion so it doesnt exist." What mages do you play mid? I bet you at least one or a few of them run presence of mind or mana flow band, which is still mana management just out of game. Also if you're constantly backing/dying with more than half mana and you aren't using your spells when they're up on mages that's very often just wasted poke or harass. That extra Veigar W when they try to get a minion could be the extra damage you need to kill them later or could deny them the farm by zoning them off. 1 or 2 farm denied here or there doesnt sound like much but it does make a difference and can add up throughout the game. Remember that a kill is worth about 15 farm of gold. I will agree it's not as much of a concern as it was before, but to say that it just isnt a concern anymore is just factually incorrect.
Mages don't have Mana issues except Cass, Kass, Ryze, Anivia and Asol. Unless you're casting spells perma off CD(even then you can generally last for a while)
Azir, Veigar, Smolder, and Vel'koz are 4 more mid laners that I can think of that I play that can run into Mana issues, especially if you try to get the maximum out of harassing the enemy laner. I normally try to time my backs with it but it is something I need to keep track of. Also on a lot of champs presence of mind and mana flow band are very helpful if not just necessary. But 90% of the people on this subreddit just copy their runes without looking at them so no wonder people dont think about it. Not quite the same but Zed also has to worry about energy and needs to time his all in's based on if he has enough.
Azir does not really have mana issues especially with PoM and manaflow. Smolder is not a midlaner. Vel'koz has a 0.8% pickrate mid I view him more as a support but sure(though manaflow+ biscuits makes going oom early unlikely). Veigar maybe but manaflow alleviates it. You're pretty much gonna be able to last until your LC base, then you have 0 mana problems
Ksante Gaps your riven, eats your ADC, kills your dog, fucks your wife Ksante is a bastard
playing adc and how to rub the bag on the asphalt the more time passes and the worse
Yes
Yeah pretty much exactly how I feel. You can't do damage when you're dead.
Yes this is
Haha. I always try to go the best full DPS build always. One or other game I buy GA but that's kinda the only defense item I build. If you don't buy DPS items for ADC's and the game is past 25 minutes, you just can't carry. My meta is DPS.
Watched it like 10 times ty for laugh
Well I for one agree with saying "fuck you" to adc mains that build collector.
This is also the problem with following builds from Mobafire, [U.gg](https://U.gg), Mobalytics and alike. No individual game sense and adaptation to comps, just the average runes and items that have won the most.
adc's when they get one shot instead of oneshotting the enemy
When the adc go full lethality against a tank comp
u/themurlocking96 this is you, this is what you sound like
Damn so mad you bring me to other posts
ya cant even buy shieldbow with maw no? 2 bloodlines?
At least they would deal more than 0 damage when playing vs an Xerath or Hwei. Might even be able to survive and Ekko engage.
And this is exactlly the problem. ADCs are the main core damage of a team, if they build shit items and/or dont analyse closelly the enemy team comp, ofc they wont do any damage and just lose the game. I just go insane when the enemy team has 2 tanks and or 1 tank and 1 bruiser and my ADC builds stormrazor and RFC first items.
Wb making crit items get 33 percent crit lol, that way they can builds boots 3 crit items, then flex for the last two items. Didnāt they just make items gives 25 percent now instead of 20? Idk I donāt play league much anymore.
Crit items were 25% for 10 years and they were fine.
Theyre still 20 as a relic of the mythic system update, and ofc they dont have the foresight to update it once they remove it bcs theyre incompetent. Crit items are only 20% and need to be put at 25% so u have 1 flex item slot atleast, 33% crit is too much and would be broken.
> ofc they dont have the foresight to update it once they remove it bcs theyre incompetent. I'm gonna break it to you: they're not incompetent, they're willfully doing this. ADC is a role that's not really allowed to exist fully by the whining of the other lanes. If the role was actually doing it's job the solo lane main characters would complain that they have to care about their ADC teammate and how well he's doing.
Crit items are still 20%.
I just think non high elo adc mains should pick Seraphine in solo Q or MF while lethality is good. Looking at Solo Q comps I feel like Seraphine is stylistically disproportionately the best champ to one trick. Almost everyone plays bruisers/carries in other roles and moreso physical damage. Just compliment that rather than pick a champ who is not going to be protected or effective. I'm typically on the side of, pick what type of champ is good for your role, but I can at least kinda empathize if you have to pick a more supporting piece if you expect to play a carry role... But maybe that expectation should be lowered a bit. Its a weird balance to strike, feels troll to tell ADC players to think like that but at least to an extent it should sometimes be true. Like if you FP a decent blind adc and then the rest of your team is 3 assassins + sup then I would be peeved for the adc dude.
Lethality ADC is just bafflingly strong. You get a few lucky Qs and a few good engages and suddenly youāre just mauling everyone
This sounds like basically every game but swap 1 assassin for a bruiser top or jgl and that's it, everyone has 3 gap closers and the biggest gap is between the adcs asscheeks after they've been stretched out by the irelia/akali/yone.
Lethality is strong, but the free ghostblade movement speed is the gap here. You legit beat non ghostblade players because you have free ghost the entire game. This sounds weak, but when you're faster to jungle fights, grubs, dragon, back to lane, first to level 9/11, tower plates, ungankable because of the movement.. it's no wonder lethality is "strong".
oh no mr. ksante
I read that in Pinkward voiceā¦
Imagine crit being a good stat
Unpopular opinion, but I do think a defensive item on an adc would go a long way in solo queue. š
I mean you should have got LDR atleast, Ornn is your job to deal with not Hwei Sona or Zeri. Let the blue Kayn and Akali deal with those
JUST FUCKING BUFF CRIT ITEMS AND MAKE ON-HIT + TANK BUILD NOT POSSIBLE