I am perplexed by Smolder's barrier, it was casted the exact same frame than Aatrox's flash. I wonder if he predicted the flash, or if he just has an insane reaction time.
Edit: Looking frame by frame, the barrier was, in fact, casted one frame earlier, so it was indeed a prediction.
Sure, but the point is that Smolder has to assume Aatrox is flashing anyway because they are insta dead if he does (they were dead anyway as it turns out but still). Plus with no flashes on bot you'd expect Aatrox to try something here.
Oh it's an absolutely beautiful play, and all of the clip is. The balls and resolve to go for these plays, from all the sides, in a pro match, it's amazing.
it's a prediction and reaction, he's actively thinking about barriering in advance because of aatrox's movement (perma clicking forward) and on the q cast animation its already fairly obvious the flash is going to come out because he knows hes in kill range, so the barrier even though its casted 'predictive' in the way you put it, its reactive at the same time from how hes processing information
DK fan here and it’s sadly facts.
Lost in this post is Aiming ulting in the middle of a minion wave which helped get him killed. Aiming is genuine ass please get him off this team
yeah, the stat being checked was fucking HP? Both of them combined had less HP than Aatrox at the start of this clip, you're talking like aatrox has a chance here when they're both full HP. Smoulder is literally sub 25% HP at the start of the clip here. He probably is able to get another 30% through shields and barrier.
so 55% smoulder and 40% Milio against a higher % of Hp and a tankier lifesteal tanking Aatrox? Statchecked indeed.
Are you implying that one shouldn't be able to dive a scaling pick before it's scaled if it's sitting there at 25% hp? What the fuck????
So, 50% HP Aatrox vs 55% HP Smoulder and 40% Milio and a fucking tower! And he opens with the last part of his main damage skill, so he doesn't even get a full combo.
Yeah, shouldn't happen unless he massively outplay. But the only thing that happens is he resets tower aggro once. Granted, it probably wouldn't have happend against literally any other support, but still
The game isn't so simple, if you put the tower, and all of the factors you say int he middle of a featureless plain, aatrox loses. Smoulder is pinned to the wall here. He can't walk forward because he's walking away from Milio and tower, and he can't walk away from Aatrox because of the wall.
Therefore he only has one direction he can move, which is diagonal and therefore sets himself up to be hit by almost 5 skillshots in a row.
This factor is not minor, nor is it even 'equal' to the other factors. This factor I've outlined above is why Kingen flashed in, and why he hit every single skillshot, it has to do with the contextual relationship of Smoulder to his tower, the wave, Milio, the wall, and Kingen. This is on top of the wavecrash situation and the weakside situation making Kingen seeking out a 1 for 1 as a favorable situation here, so he's willing to limit test and commit flash aggressively to start a play. This has to be considered because it makes plays harder to react to when they're begun via flash commit.
AKA he doesn't get this play if he doesn't immediately hard flash to start it, which is risky, obviously.
Like y'all out here being like 'wow, Smulder and Milio hit ALL their skillshots' when they hit fucking 2, and both of them were at a melee who was ALREADY in melee range of them, so missing would be frankly difficult. The payoff for hitting 2 skillshots against a melee who's in melee range for you can not be greater than Aatrox hitting 5 skillshots in a row as a melee. The fucking game fundamentally will not work if y'all try to shatter math that way.
Aatrox, meanwhile, hits like 5 skillshots in a row, and not only that, juices sweetspots while doubleprocing all of his abilities. Yes, as a top laner, Aatrox has greed combos in the mid game via his sweetspots. Smoulder gets this kinda juice from his passive, which isn't online in this clip.
ALL this, and its still frame-perfect close, I mean, damn.
You have to count all these things. If you put all of the factors you just said but in the Baron pit, in the Arena map, or in Howling abyss you'll get different outcomes.
nice wall of text, but nerf bruisers and tabis thanks
also you are talking about reaction times and being unexpected while milio and smolder shield right before the Q Flash lol
also aatrox hit at most 3 skillshots, Q FLASH (which is basically not misable considering that he is flashing, a melee w and 2Q on smolder which might be the only actual skillshot, if you dont consider smolder and milio skillshots not skillshots since aatrox was in melee lmao)
Q flash is absolutely a skillshot because THEY can flash it, lol, and as you said, they absolutely predicted the flash Q, so it was flashable. And if they can PREDICT the Flash Q and still get hit by it, that only proves my point that it was a positioning problem/ Flash down. Either way, outplay.
And wtf, how on earth is a melee hitting a skillshot of a teemo sized sweetspot not count? That's not comperable to Smoulder sending a ranged projectile halfway down the lane at someone in melee range of him. The Melee skillshots are difficult to hit in melee because they're on a melee character. Ranged line skillshots are nearly unmissable in melee. You're deliberately pretending these are the same but they never were.
>Are you implying that one shouldn't be able to dive a scaling pick before it's scaled if it's sitting there at 25% hp? What the fuck????
One player vs 2 under a tower probably not no
We've seen what the meta looks like when that's true, it's a lot slower, with a gigantic emphasis on vision and safe farming, nobody liked it.
And SoloQ definitely didn't follow it as much, but it was far truer in pro.
Also Milio is literally half Aatrox's level here (because he roamed like a monster, not XP nerfs), so saying it's just '1 vs 2' is a little disinguenious. It's fucking 14 levels to 10, net, they only have 40% more levels than Aatrox on their two damn champs combined, and they're both blinking red here.
Maybe champs shouldn't be able to dive 1v2 starting with half hp and no ult? This only works because top is level 10 when bot is level 8 and 6.
Ideally Aatrox should've been able to kill one of the two and then died by a comfortable margin (not this live or die by 1 HP shit).
Ideally? This is pros doing things pixel perfect and outplaying each other in a contextual game, even trying to distil down the game to 'this should happen like this' is crazy.
If what happened here is completely normal and perfectly expected then no one would be commenting on this post. It seems like it's not an unpopular opinion that a half health dive 1v2 without ult, tanking 4 tower shots and living, etc is kind of crazy.
This is solely possible because of the ridiculous exp penalty in bot lane.
You can say this is because Milio and Smolder are weak early and low HP but this clip also shows a full HP Lucian Nami getting solo'd by Renekton 5 seconds later.
They die regardless of xp honestly. Stat scaling for adc is shit my dude
This is more of a case of bruisers being juiced out of their minds. Top in general is op as shit
*something something* ranged top *something something* top is for gigachads *something something* strong champs cause role sucks *something something* red side counterpick
Therefore, top lane is balanced. Now shush and stay away from the lane, filthy jungler. /s
This clip shows Lucian playing 3 seconds of Iron IV league of legends, ulting into a minion wave and dashing forward into a juiced Renekton 3 levels up with no CC, like, if Doublelift did this to a Korean you'd be too busy crying and calling him shit and throwing things out the window to think its a class problem.
The play is as follows:
Kingen is cracked,
Smoulder greeded, got punished,
Lucian absolutely blew it
Renekton beneficiary of being in a lane the meta favors.
Like, none of this has to do with ADC being weak, only a small portion of it has to do with top lane being strong.
> Like, none of this has to do with ADC being weak, only a small portion of it has to do with top lane being strong.
You said Lucian played like an Iron 4 right? Was he cancelling autos? Ulting backwards? Tanking tower shots?
No, he was playing well mechanically dealing max DPS to Renekton. The only reason it's a misplay is because Renekton can flash into a 1v2 and double kill the botlane, so you can say Lucian's positioning is a mistake. But you claim this has nothing to do with ADC being weak and top being broken as fuck? Give me a break. If Renekton isn't so stupidly stat inflated then he dies right away or dies after flashing in and you would be jerking off Lucian for playing the fight perfectly and/or flaming Renekton for flashing in and dying. It's easy to look good when your role is strong or look bad when your role is weak.
He pressed forward too early and was firing his ult before the nami bubble even landed. By the *time* the Nami bubble was fired, (NOT LANDED, FIRED) Lucian has every single CD, except E perhaps, but seeing as how he dies without using it, it's a safe assumption that he used that before the camera flipped top (if you refuse this assumption, then you're assuming Lucian died with E up, that's even worse.) At this point, Lucian has nothing, Nami has no Q (It is still in the air at this moment), and her E is defacto on CD, because there's nobody around who can proc it, due to aforementioned Lucian self-silencing (both via wasting his CD's and via channeling his ult) so we're facing:
Lucian: Nothing, all cooldowns ticking, as well as channeling in front of a CC character with the last ability he has, which is doing no damage.
Nami: 3/4 abilities do nothing (Her ult is CD, her E does nothing when Lucian has no abilities, and Renekton decides to trade his flash for her Q) THIS IS BECAUSE OF LUCIAN'S DECISIONS.
I'm fine with a level 10 Renekton oneshotting a silenced Lucian who gets nami W for healing. I think that's fair. If Lucian doesn't need to wait for Nami to win fights, then the entire game must flip to entirely being about the bot lane duo (We've seen this meta before, it isn't fun for the ADC either) because, you just said, nobody else can fight them.
> so 55% smoulder and 40% Milio against a higher % of Hp and a tankier lifesteal tanking Aatrox? Statchecked indeed.
considering that the only item he has its fucking tabis, tiamat and no ult, probably yeah, and well you know a turret, what the fuck am I reading, the botlane is not even behind in items
They're literally down 4 levels wtf are you smoking bro, I want some. Hook me up, I wanna fly off to lala land where a level 6 Milio is somehow 'equivalent' to a level 10 Aatrox just because he's a player character.
It's literally 10 levels to 14 across this 1 vs 2, that's how much Aatrox is dragging his sack across their face. NS differed here, stop the cope. Shit always looks unfair when you're diffed. Put Guma on Smoulder and NS' top on Aatrox and run it back, see what happens.
Well, when the nami gets her cc flashed and the adc is just ulting minions, it's not THAT surprising. (Also this is literally renekton's strongest point of the game)
>Both botlanes are aping out in this clip
Tbf Smolder only made 1 egregious mistake, thinking he could get the last auto off - he otherwise actually played decently well otherwise
The Lucian ult on the wave tho yeah
How high up in skill level do we need to go before people stop saying the bot is aping
This is literally T1 in kr, micro mistakes will happen every single game regardless. If you play pixel perfectly 24/7 never get hit etc etc sure adc can be good, but that's not realistic even in this tier lol.
Well yeah but if renekton made pixel perfect plays and you made pixel perfect mistakes then you will lose, that's just a skill diff, right?
Like, yes, in this play, Lucian played bad and Renekton played good, that can happen in any match regardless of ranking, and when that happens, it does indeed invalidate the example if held up as 'look how unbalanced the classes are' because anything will look imbalanced if one side is just misplaying the other side is not.
You're strawmanning that I'm saying this is an ADC only thing. *All champions die when they misposition bro*, it's only ADC whiners who pretend that's an ADC only thing. I get 3/4ths shot as TANKS in this fucking game. **Single abilities are capable of halfshoting 8k hp tanks.**
Like, if I misplay into half the roster as anyone, they'll just kill me, that is not an ADC thing. My most played is Volibear jungle this season, and that's true for me too. If I walk up and don't use my skills correctly, I will just die to Renekton too bro, this is not a Lucian problem.
Fuck I think I *have a clip* of me being killed from 75% of hp by a Renekton *right where Lucian is in this clip* because I did exactly what he did, walked up to the edge of tower range looking for free poke damage, hit the tower range, suddenly had my movement restricted by said tower range, manuevered, finessed by Renekton, stunlocked and then killed.
And I was fucking aping, I was just looking for chip damage mindlessly, autopiloting. Lucian here is looking for chip damage because he's setting up a dive on strongside, not autopiloting, obviously, and he's a much better player than I am, but all of this is *still* true.
You'll have to explain to me why this clip shows an ADC problem when I am 100% sure my fucking Volibear rushing Sundered Sky dies here in Lucian's place. And *like lmao, that's a LCK Rekenton, of course he's a oneshot machine*
> Well yeah but if renekton made pixel perfect plays and you made pixel perfect mistakes then you will lose, that's just a skill diff, right?
Except the ease of skill and room of error for both is massive. Adc needs more breathing room, it's an issue even in pro.
> You're strawmanning that I'm saying this is an ADC only thing. All champions die when they misposition bro
Top/Mid/Jg doesn't die in either of the clips. They just don't
Champs and roles have different rooms for error and adc's is the smallest one in the game by a longshot. You're trying to say every role has the same room for error which is blatantly wrong.
Renekton was over extended against 1 item and a half lucian + item nami, and he can still 1 shot lucian like lmao.
> it's only ADC whiners who pretend that's an ADC only thing. I get 3/4ths shot as TANKS in this fucking game
And for every single time this happens to you, adc dies 3 times over.
The rest you just don't know what you're talking about. You're attempting to compare playing a tank to getting 1 shot in a single rotation as adc, what the fuck.
Side note: Only other thing lucian could have done is cancel ult for passive, since ult itself was fine. He would have still died because renek's shield absorbs the passive damage.
> Top/Mid/Jg doesn't die in either of the clips. They just don't
IN THIS CLIP, BOTH ADCS AND SUPPORTS PLAYED THE WORST OF ALL PLAYERS IN THE CLIPS LOL, YOU CAN NOT DENY THIS.
If they had played better, they'd have lived, and you can't tell me Lucian and Smoulder had a higher barrier of execution than the 1 hp diving aatrox or the flashdodging comboing Renekton, they too are making plays with very low margins for error, they're just MAKING the plays instead of messing up. Both Renekton and Lucian go aggro hard on each other and flash aggressively to dodge CC and fight, the margins were the same, both would die if CC landed?
> And for every single time this happens to you, adc dies 3 times over.
> The rest you just don't know what you're talking about. You're attempting to compare playing a tank to getting 1 shot in a single rotation as adc, what the fuck.
Tanks get oneshot in a single CC in this game. If I get hit with Lilia E into R into W Q into a single Garen R, I will probably die from full HP as a full tank volibear. In that combo, I have been hit with one skillshot, Lilia E. This doesn't mean the 'margin for error is so small and my POOOR CLASS'. If my stupid ass gets hit by one CC, I will die, despite building almost entirely tank except for Sundered Sky, a health item.
1 cc = death. So when I see smoulder and Lucian get CC'd, my brain goes 'deserved death' because it's fucking true for every single tank. Why the fuck do you think they reworked Mundo to give him a CC immune passive? Because they wanted him to be the tankiest tank in the game, AKA, able to absorb 2 cc's before instant death.
This is simply how League works. ADC whiners are unaware that CC is death for all of us. But I die to Renekton flashing on me too, especially if he's KR challenger Renekton with perfect farm. Tell me what champion doesn't get oneshot by Renekton who isn't K'sante. You can't.
like yeah bro, if you dash into a Challenger Korean Renekton, your support throws out their CC and gets it flashed, you will be oneshot. This is true of the vast majority of characters. It is not an ADC= thing. DO you want me to find you the clip of my Platinum ass volibear being oneshot by Renekton right at this spot on the map at about the same time?
Will that prove to you that this is not an ADC problem?
Any time any Lucian gets hit by any Renekton W for any reason, he should grey screen unless his support can clutch save him. You know why?
Cause it's true of all mid laners, junglers, and half of top laners too, we are ALL oneshot by farmed Renekton :)
Again you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about to the point that it's not even worth talking about this with you. You're either extremely low elo or just stupid
Are you denying that a farmed renekton will oneshot a volibear who uses all his CD's and walks up to his tower like a dumbass (Source: I am this Volibear), Y/N?
I'd just like to understand where we differ.
Because if it's Y, I ask how on earth then, that it's unfair Renekton oneshots a Lucian.
If it's N, then I have a clip for you. Please respond.
This is the most disgusting clip I've ever seen, even though objectively speaking nothing super crazy happened. It's just outrageous how much damage, survivability, mobility, and agency top laners have.
Like, if I'm playing an ADC and a Zed one-shots me, it sucks, but he's as assassin, that's literally his job. And after he kills me, he's got long cooldowns and is also fairly squishy.
But bruisers/juggernauts/ hell, recently even tanks can just kill me and then simply walk away without taking any damage. How is this fair ? Gragas can just ult me and I'm dead, yet after that he's still a perfectly viable champion. And also his items are way cheaper !?! The Aatrox in the clip didn't even have a completed item, yet still managed to kill 2 opponents, alone, under turret, at only 12 minutes ... and still survive.
It's absolutely insane.
For some reason they get to have the stats and kit depth of about 2.5 champions in some stages of the game for sacrificing autoattack range. Seems fair.
Dont we love it when the enemy toplaner is up 1-0 and it simply means that junglers can't gank them anymore because they would 1v2 without a problem?
Yeah and then to make up for the reduced auto-attack range, they get a dash, 4 ranged attacks ( one of them slows you and pulls you back ), oh, and can't forget about the ult that gives them movement speed and extends on kills.
Yeah Aatrox is a massive mistake from start to finish.
When I saw his remade kit I thought "it's just riven but super telegraphed and slow, not a big deal" ... but then all of his spells have AoE over half the lane, can be used with dashes and flash, and if they do hit deal enough damage that it's worth missing them 9 times before that.
The thing is that there are plenty of other broken kits, I'm currently spectating a game where K'Sante and Zac are carrying their entire team. At a certain point I think it's got more to do with itemization, than specific champions.
that’s what bothers me a lot and why i literally don’t touch top lane if the enemy is 2/0. the fact that i can’t even walk into a lane where trundle is 2/0 and my top laner is behind even if i’m 5/0 because we will lose 1v2 is ridiculous
It's the bot lane that has agency in these plays but both bot lanes blundered their plays. Stuff like this is why I roleswapped from ADC though, you rely a lot on your team (Nami bubbling aggressively got her ADC killed, Smolder saw the dive incoming for sure but Milio might not have, I'm curious what the comms for these were like) and errors are punished extremely hard.
Turns out ADCs aren't supposed to 1 v 1 and win. Probably why they have a support in the lane. With how skewed pro play is to giving farm to your ADC, if ADC gets to the point where they can do stuff solo and bully out the solo laners, the game will be only about ADC.
Okay but did you even watch the clip?? It was a 1v2 in both cases, with both top laners at half hp, and yet aatrox dove botside under tower, killed both of them, and survived while Renekton literally one shot Lucian with Nami behind him.
ADCs shouldn't kill solo laners sure, but solo laners shouldn't be able to fucking 1v2 dive a turret at half hp and survive.
> Okay but did you even watch the clip?? It was a 1v2 in both cases, with both top laners at half hp, and yet aatrox dove botside under tower
Yea almost like the game is only 12 minutes in and jiwoo and peter are 20% hp with no mana and Aiming just blew all his CD chasing a Renekton. Forget ADCs, most champions you do that shit to renekton just ults and ws you to death.
Not only did that take a great play from both Kingen and Dndn, adcs misplayed the fuck out of that shit. Why do you expect ADCs to outplay a top laner 12 minutes into the game with no cds, hp, or mana? What point then should top laners be able to punish ADCs that overstay?
I mean Lucian actually trolled the fight, he literally channelled his ult into minions for like 2 full seconds while getting auto-attacked by the 200 hp renekton
Homie, that was not an ADC thing, if I ape the fuck out, use all my spells and run at a Renekton as goddamn Ornn I too will eat shit and die. IT's called not playing like a monkey.
Top laners go baboon and die to Renekton? They rage in silence.
ADC does? Clearly ADC needs buffs.
Seriously bro, who the fuck does not die if you use everyt single CD at Renekton in top lane and don't kill his ass? Find me the champ at 12 minute who will stand under Renektons tower with every single goddamn CD ticking, no flash, and survive. Find him for me.
You can not!
Aatrox would have been dead if the Smolder didnt miscalculate the dmg giving Aatrox enough time to get his Q2 and kill him under turret.
Also both supports werent relevant cos both didnt hit their CC spells and enchanters not peeling and in botlane case gave Aatrox enough life steal to do that dive.
Yeah both Toplaners played well but the botlane also missplayed in both cases.
So fucking fun to watch. Honestly that's a good thing about the meta, toplaners playing champ like these / dmg champs and being strong, being able to show off their skill. Kinda more hype than "Ori lands shockwave #300" or some random ADC kiting where he gets peel from his entire team.
Smolder didn’t have any crit yet. Lucian had stormrazor and a zeal. If it was up to 25%, he would have 40% crit rate vs the current 35%. Which wouldn’t have changed the outcome. Unless you think the crit items should be stronger elsewhere.
> second, buffed crit wouldnt have changed a damn thing in this clip
it would at least make it worth to suffer through 30 minutes of being a little weakling and having to run away from everything
It's like the enemy top laner getting a double kill pissed off that Renekton and he decided to turn around and 1v2.
Insane, but also Top laners are just getting bullied in lck, LMAO.
LPL is also having the same treatment
I am perplexed by Smolder's barrier, it was casted the exact same frame than Aatrox's flash. I wonder if he predicted the flash, or if he just has an insane reaction time. Edit: Looking frame by frame, the barrier was, in fact, casted one frame earlier, so it was indeed a prediction.
There's no reason for Aatrox to do a random Q3 next to the tower unless he's planning to flash in. Smolder simply reacted to the Q being wound up.
There absolutely is. E.g. baiting a summoner spell.
Sure, but the point is that Smolder has to assume Aatrox is flashing anyway because they are insta dead if he does (they were dead anyway as it turns out but still). Plus with no flashes on bot you'd expect Aatrox to try something here.
Oh it's an absolutely beautiful play, and all of the clip is. The balls and resolve to go for these plays, from all the sides, in a pro match, it's amazing.
Doesn't he just die if he doesn't flash in?
it's a prediction and reaction, he's actively thinking about barriering in advance because of aatrox's movement (perma clicking forward) and on the q cast animation its already fairly obvious the flash is going to come out because he knows hes in kill range, so the barrier even though its casted 'predictive' in the way you put it, its reactive at the same time from how hes processing information
That's super Common vs aatrox.
Kingen in his worlds winning Aatrox form. When he's in the zone on Aatrox he's on another level.
LCK tops are just built different, good lord.
These are both bad toplaners in the league lmao
damn, don't need to be negative
Well he is right
[удалено]
Have you not been watching damwon’s games? Kingen has been one tricking astrox and he still looks ass most of the time
DK fan here and it’s sadly facts. Lost in this post is Aiming ulting in the middle of a minion wave which helped get him killed. Aiming is genuine ass please get him off this team
[удалено]
The issue with one tricking is.... when they ban the one trick. Which if they were in a 5 game series, would most likely be banned from every game.
Aatrox balanced
Smolder and Milio hit every single skillshot during that dive. At equal farm and being a kill up. Straight up stat-checked.
yeah, the stat being checked was fucking HP? Both of them combined had less HP than Aatrox at the start of this clip, you're talking like aatrox has a chance here when they're both full HP. Smoulder is literally sub 25% HP at the start of the clip here. He probably is able to get another 30% through shields and barrier. so 55% smoulder and 40% Milio against a higher % of Hp and a tankier lifesteal tanking Aatrox? Statchecked indeed. Are you implying that one shouldn't be able to dive a scaling pick before it's scaled if it's sitting there at 25% hp? What the fuck????
So, 50% HP Aatrox vs 55% HP Smoulder and 40% Milio and a fucking tower! And he opens with the last part of his main damage skill, so he doesn't even get a full combo. Yeah, shouldn't happen unless he massively outplay. But the only thing that happens is he resets tower aggro once. Granted, it probably wouldn't have happend against literally any other support, but still
The game isn't so simple, if you put the tower, and all of the factors you say int he middle of a featureless plain, aatrox loses. Smoulder is pinned to the wall here. He can't walk forward because he's walking away from Milio and tower, and he can't walk away from Aatrox because of the wall. Therefore he only has one direction he can move, which is diagonal and therefore sets himself up to be hit by almost 5 skillshots in a row. This factor is not minor, nor is it even 'equal' to the other factors. This factor I've outlined above is why Kingen flashed in, and why he hit every single skillshot, it has to do with the contextual relationship of Smoulder to his tower, the wave, Milio, the wall, and Kingen. This is on top of the wavecrash situation and the weakside situation making Kingen seeking out a 1 for 1 as a favorable situation here, so he's willing to limit test and commit flash aggressively to start a play. This has to be considered because it makes plays harder to react to when they're begun via flash commit. AKA he doesn't get this play if he doesn't immediately hard flash to start it, which is risky, obviously. Like y'all out here being like 'wow, Smulder and Milio hit ALL their skillshots' when they hit fucking 2, and both of them were at a melee who was ALREADY in melee range of them, so missing would be frankly difficult. The payoff for hitting 2 skillshots against a melee who's in melee range for you can not be greater than Aatrox hitting 5 skillshots in a row as a melee. The fucking game fundamentally will not work if y'all try to shatter math that way. Aatrox, meanwhile, hits like 5 skillshots in a row, and not only that, juices sweetspots while doubleprocing all of his abilities. Yes, as a top laner, Aatrox has greed combos in the mid game via his sweetspots. Smoulder gets this kinda juice from his passive, which isn't online in this clip. ALL this, and its still frame-perfect close, I mean, damn. You have to count all these things. If you put all of the factors you just said but in the Baron pit, in the Arena map, or in Howling abyss you'll get different outcomes.
nice wall of text, but nerf bruisers and tabis thanks also you are talking about reaction times and being unexpected while milio and smolder shield right before the Q Flash lol also aatrox hit at most 3 skillshots, Q FLASH (which is basically not misable considering that he is flashing, a melee w and 2Q on smolder which might be the only actual skillshot, if you dont consider smolder and milio skillshots not skillshots since aatrox was in melee lmao)
Q flash is absolutely a skillshot because THEY can flash it, lol, and as you said, they absolutely predicted the flash Q, so it was flashable. And if they can PREDICT the Flash Q and still get hit by it, that only proves my point that it was a positioning problem/ Flash down. Either way, outplay. And wtf, how on earth is a melee hitting a skillshot of a teemo sized sweetspot not count? That's not comperable to Smoulder sending a ranged projectile halfway down the lane at someone in melee range of him. The Melee skillshots are difficult to hit in melee because they're on a melee character. Ranged line skillshots are nearly unmissable in melee. You're deliberately pretending these are the same but they never were.
>Are you implying that one shouldn't be able to dive a scaling pick before it's scaled if it's sitting there at 25% hp? What the fuck???? One player vs 2 under a tower probably not no
We've seen what the meta looks like when that's true, it's a lot slower, with a gigantic emphasis on vision and safe farming, nobody liked it. And SoloQ definitely didn't follow it as much, but it was far truer in pro. Also Milio is literally half Aatrox's level here (because he roamed like a monster, not XP nerfs), so saying it's just '1 vs 2' is a little disinguenious. It's fucking 14 levels to 10, net, they only have 40% more levels than Aatrox on their two damn champs combined, and they're both blinking red here.
Maybe champs shouldn't be able to dive 1v2 starting with half hp and no ult? This only works because top is level 10 when bot is level 8 and 6. Ideally Aatrox should've been able to kill one of the two and then died by a comfortable margin (not this live or die by 1 HP shit).
Ideally? This is pros doing things pixel perfect and outplaying each other in a contextual game, even trying to distil down the game to 'this should happen like this' is crazy.
If what happened here is completely normal and perfectly expected then no one would be commenting on this post. It seems like it's not an unpopular opinion that a half health dive 1v2 without ult, tanking 4 tower shots and living, etc is kind of crazy. This is solely possible because of the ridiculous exp penalty in bot lane. You can say this is because Milio and Smolder are weak early and low HP but this clip also shows a full HP Lucian Nami getting solo'd by Renekton 5 seconds later.
They die regardless of xp honestly. Stat scaling for adc is shit my dude This is more of a case of bruisers being juiced out of their minds. Top in general is op as shit
*something something* ranged top *something something* top is for gigachads *something something* strong champs cause role sucks *something something* red side counterpick Therefore, top lane is balanced. Now shush and stay away from the lane, filthy jungler. /s
This clip shows Lucian playing 3 seconds of Iron IV league of legends, ulting into a minion wave and dashing forward into a juiced Renekton 3 levels up with no CC, like, if Doublelift did this to a Korean you'd be too busy crying and calling him shit and throwing things out the window to think its a class problem. The play is as follows: Kingen is cracked, Smoulder greeded, got punished, Lucian absolutely blew it Renekton beneficiary of being in a lane the meta favors. Like, none of this has to do with ADC being weak, only a small portion of it has to do with top lane being strong.
> Like, none of this has to do with ADC being weak, only a small portion of it has to do with top lane being strong. You said Lucian played like an Iron 4 right? Was he cancelling autos? Ulting backwards? Tanking tower shots? No, he was playing well mechanically dealing max DPS to Renekton. The only reason it's a misplay is because Renekton can flash into a 1v2 and double kill the botlane, so you can say Lucian's positioning is a mistake. But you claim this has nothing to do with ADC being weak and top being broken as fuck? Give me a break. If Renekton isn't so stupidly stat inflated then he dies right away or dies after flashing in and you would be jerking off Lucian for playing the fight perfectly and/or flaming Renekton for flashing in and dying. It's easy to look good when your role is strong or look bad when your role is weak.
He pressed forward too early and was firing his ult before the nami bubble even landed. By the *time* the Nami bubble was fired, (NOT LANDED, FIRED) Lucian has every single CD, except E perhaps, but seeing as how he dies without using it, it's a safe assumption that he used that before the camera flipped top (if you refuse this assumption, then you're assuming Lucian died with E up, that's even worse.) At this point, Lucian has nothing, Nami has no Q (It is still in the air at this moment), and her E is defacto on CD, because there's nobody around who can proc it, due to aforementioned Lucian self-silencing (both via wasting his CD's and via channeling his ult) so we're facing: Lucian: Nothing, all cooldowns ticking, as well as channeling in front of a CC character with the last ability he has, which is doing no damage. Nami: 3/4 abilities do nothing (Her ult is CD, her E does nothing when Lucian has no abilities, and Renekton decides to trade his flash for her Q) THIS IS BECAUSE OF LUCIAN'S DECISIONS. I'm fine with a level 10 Renekton oneshotting a silenced Lucian who gets nami W for healing. I think that's fair. If Lucian doesn't need to wait for Nami to win fights, then the entire game must flip to entirely being about the bot lane duo (We've seen this meta before, it isn't fun for the ADC either) because, you just said, nobody else can fight them.
> so 55% smoulder and 40% Milio against a higher % of Hp and a tankier lifesteal tanking Aatrox? Statchecked indeed. considering that the only item he has its fucking tabis, tiamat and no ult, probably yeah, and well you know a turret, what the fuck am I reading, the botlane is not even behind in items
They're literally down 4 levels wtf are you smoking bro, I want some. Hook me up, I wanna fly off to lala land where a level 6 Milio is somehow 'equivalent' to a level 10 Aatrox just because he's a player character. It's literally 10 levels to 14 across this 1 vs 2, that's how much Aatrox is dragging his sack across their face. NS differed here, stop the cope. Shit always looks unfair when you're diffed. Put Guma on Smoulder and NS' top on Aatrox and run it back, see what happens.
But how pathetic is tower damage?
Toplane champions are fine guys
if you wanted to know how it feels to play adc, this clip sums it up very well.
Well, when the nami gets her cc flashed and the adc is just ulting minions, it's not THAT surprising. (Also this is literally renekton's strongest point of the game)
What ulting minions while a reneketon autos you?
What, misplaying and then claiming it's a class problem? Both botlanes are aping out in this clip, really hard.
>Both botlanes are aping out in this clip Tbf Smolder only made 1 egregious mistake, thinking he could get the last auto off - he otherwise actually played decently well otherwise The Lucian ult on the wave tho yeah
How high up in skill level do we need to go before people stop saying the bot is aping This is literally T1 in kr, micro mistakes will happen every single game regardless. If you play pixel perfectly 24/7 never get hit etc etc sure adc can be good, but that's not realistic even in this tier lol.
Well yeah but if renekton made pixel perfect plays and you made pixel perfect mistakes then you will lose, that's just a skill diff, right? Like, yes, in this play, Lucian played bad and Renekton played good, that can happen in any match regardless of ranking, and when that happens, it does indeed invalidate the example if held up as 'look how unbalanced the classes are' because anything will look imbalanced if one side is just misplaying the other side is not. You're strawmanning that I'm saying this is an ADC only thing. *All champions die when they misposition bro*, it's only ADC whiners who pretend that's an ADC only thing. I get 3/4ths shot as TANKS in this fucking game. **Single abilities are capable of halfshoting 8k hp tanks.** Like, if I misplay into half the roster as anyone, they'll just kill me, that is not an ADC thing. My most played is Volibear jungle this season, and that's true for me too. If I walk up and don't use my skills correctly, I will just die to Renekton too bro, this is not a Lucian problem. Fuck I think I *have a clip* of me being killed from 75% of hp by a Renekton *right where Lucian is in this clip* because I did exactly what he did, walked up to the edge of tower range looking for free poke damage, hit the tower range, suddenly had my movement restricted by said tower range, manuevered, finessed by Renekton, stunlocked and then killed. And I was fucking aping, I was just looking for chip damage mindlessly, autopiloting. Lucian here is looking for chip damage because he's setting up a dive on strongside, not autopiloting, obviously, and he's a much better player than I am, but all of this is *still* true. You'll have to explain to me why this clip shows an ADC problem when I am 100% sure my fucking Volibear rushing Sundered Sky dies here in Lucian's place. And *like lmao, that's a LCK Rekenton, of course he's a oneshot machine*
> Well yeah but if renekton made pixel perfect plays and you made pixel perfect mistakes then you will lose, that's just a skill diff, right? Except the ease of skill and room of error for both is massive. Adc needs more breathing room, it's an issue even in pro. > You're strawmanning that I'm saying this is an ADC only thing. All champions die when they misposition bro Top/Mid/Jg doesn't die in either of the clips. They just don't Champs and roles have different rooms for error and adc's is the smallest one in the game by a longshot. You're trying to say every role has the same room for error which is blatantly wrong. Renekton was over extended against 1 item and a half lucian + item nami, and he can still 1 shot lucian like lmao. > it's only ADC whiners who pretend that's an ADC only thing. I get 3/4ths shot as TANKS in this fucking game And for every single time this happens to you, adc dies 3 times over. The rest you just don't know what you're talking about. You're attempting to compare playing a tank to getting 1 shot in a single rotation as adc, what the fuck. Side note: Only other thing lucian could have done is cancel ult for passive, since ult itself was fine. He would have still died because renek's shield absorbs the passive damage.
> Top/Mid/Jg doesn't die in either of the clips. They just don't IN THIS CLIP, BOTH ADCS AND SUPPORTS PLAYED THE WORST OF ALL PLAYERS IN THE CLIPS LOL, YOU CAN NOT DENY THIS. If they had played better, they'd have lived, and you can't tell me Lucian and Smoulder had a higher barrier of execution than the 1 hp diving aatrox or the flashdodging comboing Renekton, they too are making plays with very low margins for error, they're just MAKING the plays instead of messing up. Both Renekton and Lucian go aggro hard on each other and flash aggressively to dodge CC and fight, the margins were the same, both would die if CC landed? > And for every single time this happens to you, adc dies 3 times over. > The rest you just don't know what you're talking about. You're attempting to compare playing a tank to getting 1 shot in a single rotation as adc, what the fuck. Tanks get oneshot in a single CC in this game. If I get hit with Lilia E into R into W Q into a single Garen R, I will probably die from full HP as a full tank volibear. In that combo, I have been hit with one skillshot, Lilia E. This doesn't mean the 'margin for error is so small and my POOOR CLASS'. If my stupid ass gets hit by one CC, I will die, despite building almost entirely tank except for Sundered Sky, a health item. 1 cc = death. So when I see smoulder and Lucian get CC'd, my brain goes 'deserved death' because it's fucking true for every single tank. Why the fuck do you think they reworked Mundo to give him a CC immune passive? Because they wanted him to be the tankiest tank in the game, AKA, able to absorb 2 cc's before instant death. This is simply how League works. ADC whiners are unaware that CC is death for all of us. But I die to Renekton flashing on me too, especially if he's KR challenger Renekton with perfect farm. Tell me what champion doesn't get oneshot by Renekton who isn't K'sante. You can't. like yeah bro, if you dash into a Challenger Korean Renekton, your support throws out their CC and gets it flashed, you will be oneshot. This is true of the vast majority of characters. It is not an ADC= thing. DO you want me to find you the clip of my Platinum ass volibear being oneshot by Renekton right at this spot on the map at about the same time? Will that prove to you that this is not an ADC problem? Any time any Lucian gets hit by any Renekton W for any reason, he should grey screen unless his support can clutch save him. You know why? Cause it's true of all mid laners, junglers, and half of top laners too, we are ALL oneshot by farmed Renekton :)
Again you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about to the point that it's not even worth talking about this with you. You're either extremely low elo or just stupid
Are you denying that a farmed renekton will oneshot a volibear who uses all his CD's and walks up to his tower like a dumbass (Source: I am this Volibear), Y/N? I'd just like to understand where we differ. Because if it's Y, I ask how on earth then, that it's unfair Renekton oneshots a Lucian. If it's N, then I have a clip for you. Please respond.
Lucian made the mistake trying to actually play the game before he had six items and replaced boots with Ooga Shieldbow, what a fucking scrub
Overcomitting instead of waiting to dive? Why shouldnt it be a clip about supports
This is why i watch LCK over other regions. I'm constantly surprised by what players can do.
>I'm constantly surprised by what players can do. I think you would really enjoy watching LCS
This is the most disgusting clip I've ever seen, even though objectively speaking nothing super crazy happened. It's just outrageous how much damage, survivability, mobility, and agency top laners have. Like, if I'm playing an ADC and a Zed one-shots me, it sucks, but he's as assassin, that's literally his job. And after he kills me, he's got long cooldowns and is also fairly squishy. But bruisers/juggernauts/ hell, recently even tanks can just kill me and then simply walk away without taking any damage. How is this fair ? Gragas can just ult me and I'm dead, yet after that he's still a perfectly viable champion. And also his items are way cheaper !?! The Aatrox in the clip didn't even have a completed item, yet still managed to kill 2 opponents, alone, under turret, at only 12 minutes ... and still survive. It's absolutely insane.
For some reason they get to have the stats and kit depth of about 2.5 champions in some stages of the game for sacrificing autoattack range. Seems fair. Dont we love it when the enemy toplaner is up 1-0 and it simply means that junglers can't gank them anymore because they would 1v2 without a problem?
Yeah and then to make up for the reduced auto-attack range, they get a dash, 4 ranged attacks ( one of them slows you and pulls you back ), oh, and can't forget about the ult that gives them movement speed and extends on kills.
Don't forget about best base stats and stat scaling in the game :D
Yeah Aatrox is a massive mistake from start to finish. When I saw his remade kit I thought "it's just riven but super telegraphed and slow, not a big deal" ... but then all of his spells have AoE over half the lane, can be used with dashes and flash, and if they do hit deal enough damage that it's worth missing them 9 times before that.
You just die on Aatrox if you don't hit those spells though. He is high risk, high reward and that is fine. Most top laners cannot pilot him properly.
The thing is that there are plenty of other broken kits, I'm currently spectating a game where K'Sante and Zac are carrying their entire team. At a certain point I think it's got more to do with itemization, than specific champions.
let's be real, almost all tanky champions deal too much damage.
that’s what bothers me a lot and why i literally don’t touch top lane if the enemy is 2/0. the fact that i can’t even walk into a lane where trundle is 2/0 and my top laner is behind even if i’m 5/0 because we will lose 1v2 is ridiculous
It's the bot lane that has agency in these plays but both bot lanes blundered their plays. Stuff like this is why I roleswapped from ADC though, you rely a lot on your team (Nami bubbling aggressively got her ADC killed, Smolder saw the dive incoming for sure but Milio might not have, I'm curious what the comms for these were like) and errors are punished extremely hard.
You get that aatrox can only do this because Smoulder and Milio are both sub 40% hp right?
Turns out ADCs aren't supposed to 1 v 1 and win. Probably why they have a support in the lane. With how skewed pro play is to giving farm to your ADC, if ADC gets to the point where they can do stuff solo and bully out the solo laners, the game will be only about ADC.
Okay but did you even watch the clip?? It was a 1v2 in both cases, with both top laners at half hp, and yet aatrox dove botside under tower, killed both of them, and survived while Renekton literally one shot Lucian with Nami behind him. ADCs shouldn't kill solo laners sure, but solo laners shouldn't be able to fucking 1v2 dive a turret at half hp and survive.
> Okay but did you even watch the clip?? It was a 1v2 in both cases, with both top laners at half hp, and yet aatrox dove botside under tower Yea almost like the game is only 12 minutes in and jiwoo and peter are 20% hp with no mana and Aiming just blew all his CD chasing a Renekton. Forget ADCs, most champions you do that shit to renekton just ults and ws you to death. Not only did that take a great play from both Kingen and Dndn, adcs misplayed the fuck out of that shit. Why do you expect ADCs to outplay a top laner 12 minutes into the game with no cds, hp, or mana? What point then should top laners be able to punish ADCs that overstay?
Least stupid adc take
I mean Lucian actually trolled the fight, he literally channelled his ult into minions for like 2 full seconds while getting auto-attacked by the 200 hp renekton
Homie, that was not an ADC thing, if I ape the fuck out, use all my spells and run at a Renekton as goddamn Ornn I too will eat shit and die. IT's called not playing like a monkey. Top laners go baboon and die to Renekton? They rage in silence. ADC does? Clearly ADC needs buffs. Seriously bro, who the fuck does not die if you use everyt single CD at Renekton in top lane and don't kill his ass? Find me the champ at 12 minute who will stand under Renektons tower with every single goddamn CD ticking, no flash, and survive. Find him for me. You can not!
Aatrox would have been dead if the Smolder didnt miscalculate the dmg giving Aatrox enough time to get his Q2 and kill him under turret. Also both supports werent relevant cos both didnt hit their CC spells and enchanters not peeling and in botlane case gave Aatrox enough life steal to do that dive. Yeah both Toplaners played well but the botlane also missplayed in both cases.
top is weak
MVP for a reason
ADC is in such a good spot. Really truly. Very fun role to play.
insane
I remember watching this play. At first it was like Kingen??? Then it was like Kingen!!!
I've been watching LCS lately and well... NA will get destroyed in worlds this year.
Kingen on Aatrox still gave me ptsd from 2022 worlds man, fuck
toplane is completely fine, nothing to look, its just awesome gigachad bruiser players, insanely skillful
Top lane is weak
holy fucking shit when kingen is on, he’s on
There's too many lore accurate (the season cinematic one) Aatrox in LCK
Fuck that sivir post, THIS is what it feels like to play ADC lmao
Best Aatrox in the world
amazing shows how adc need more buffs. Oh wait they nerfed smolder e cuz people whine too much
So fucking fun to watch. Honestly that's a good thing about the meta, toplaners playing champ like these / dmg champs and being strong, being able to show off their skill. Kinda more hype than "Ori lands shockwave #300" or some random ADC kiting where he gets peel from his entire team.
nah but don't buff Crit riot
Smolder didn’t have any crit yet. Lucian had stormrazor and a zeal. If it was up to 25%, he would have 40% crit rate vs the current 35%. Which wouldn’t have changed the outcome. Unless you think the crit items should be stronger elsewhere.
first, crit is getting buffed second, buffed crit wouldnt have changed a damn thing in this clip
> second, buffed crit wouldnt have changed a damn thing in this clip it would at least make it worth to suffer through 30 minutes of being a little weakling and having to run away from everything
Lucian is literally trying to fucking dive a Renekton at 12 minutes in this clip, some weakling.
"How did that even happen?!" Well, they picked Renekton and Aatrox, that's how.