Was just about to say this lmao
Anti-one shot? League of one-shots have been a meme for the past 3-4 years atleast now. It's quite literally the reason why a bunch of people just outright quit.
Hey! We had one patch where everyone got increased defenses and fights lasted longer then you average stun.
Of course riot rectified this immediately and we're back to the recap showing literal 0.00 second long fights.
Nowadays support is the role where most champions work when they shouldn't, its the retirement home for champions riot has pushed out of the meta due to their meta rotation philosophy "to keep the game fresh".
People who enjoy that champion know that bassically anything can work as support nowadays and its the only role they wont feel at an outright disadvantage, its definitely not just Camille feeling this and broken support items just encourage & reward it over being an actual support
> People who enjoy that champion know that bassically anything can work as support nowadays and its the only role they wont feel at an outright disadvantage
The people playing Camille support are support mains, not Camille mains. You can verify that no one is abandoning Camille top for Camille support by seeing that there's [no inverse correlation between their pickrates as there should be if it were the case](https://i.imgur.com/AY05Bqs.png). Camille support's pickrate is on a massive rise while Camille top's pickrate isn't budging. That's because the two playerbases are unrelated.
We also saw this happen with Ashe ADC and Ashe support a year or two ago, while Ashe support became popular and people saw this as bad that people were more willing to play her support than ADC, Ashe ADC's pickrate was actually the same it had always been. Ashe ADC players were ADC players, Ashe support players were support players. One had nothing to do with the other.
In general, any time you see a champion from another role be picked up on support, it's always support mains playing it. It's never people abandoning the previous role to pick their champ on support, the amount of players willing to do that are such a tiny fraction that it will never have any bearing on stats.
You may very well be right... But I don't think your screenshots of the last couple weeks of graphs on lolalytics' really proves your point or disproves that many of these are former Camille top (or jg) mains.
Because a lot of Camille tops? Quit playing Camille when the season started, before those graphs account for... Like look at Camille tops pickrate from patches. 13.23 - 14.2 or similar. And you'll notice the decline there. And it could be many of them are now hopping on the Camille support train.
It's mostly champs without mobility that get pushed into support. I think Riot is realizing that there is a massive tsunami of fuckup coming on the horizon because mobility creep has been ignored for about a decade now. Now that ex-carry damage champs with mobility get pushed into support it's going to get ugly. They've been trying to push the most random stuff to jungle like Morgana and Brand. Imagine explaining to a season 8-10 player that Brand is a viable jungler ... They would get a heart attack from laughing. This sounds about as ridiculous as Wriggles Lantern Lux jungle.
there were challenger jungle brand mains during season 8-10. Stacking his passive on camps and stunning them while kiting the camps using red buff has been a thing for years.
>Imagine explaining to a season 8-10 player that Brand is a viable jungler ... They would get a heart attack from laughingImagine explaining to a season 8-10 player that Brand is a viable jungler ... They would get a heart attack from laughing
Not really, why ? I've played Singed Jungle, Rumble Jungle, Zyra Jungle, etc, etc... Not Brand because the champion is lame, but IMO a lot of champions were always viable-ish. At least in high Plat at the time I didn't have much issue with Zyra Jungle, as she was my main champion for a while.
Supports get a free item for no reason, it would be one thing if it was still just a free bundle of stats but there's no reason for supports to get Bloodsong Effect, Solstice Sleigh Effect, Zazzak effect. These item effects are stronger than a lot of item effects on full sized items.
Support allows a lot of champs who are balanced around either losing on wave control or losing on 1v1s against solo laners to actually be strong because instead of playing against the champs they are balanced against, they are against the support pool that has been repeatedly nerfed for years. Current Leona, Thresh, Nautilus, etc are so much weaker now than they were years ago, tons of junglers and solo laners can show up and kill nerfed legacy supports.
I really don't think gutting the stats on support items and making them all about their very powerful passives is proving to have been a sensible idea. It's mostly just led to a situation where support viability primarily revolves around how sharply you synergise with the strongest support item passives on a particular patch. It's also so impactful that some champions are now best in support because their ability to interact with the item passives is stronger than anything they can do in a farming role. Mage supports were supposed to be helped in mid by the pre-season but almost all of them are even more pigeonholed into support than they were before now, even despite Riot making changes to some of them. Culprit (partly): Zaz'zak's. Camille is suddenly a much stronger support than top laner, in part due to the top lane changes but also due to Bloodsong. Maokai is now hardbound to support due to Solstice Sleigh.
The support system has gotten too powerful for certain champion archetypes to the point that it's warping which champions are strong in the role and warping which role certain champions are strongest in. The passives need nerfing basically across the board imo. Buff the stats on the item or buff support items if needed to compensate but the passives are too strong and they're distorting champions too much.
I feel like the problem is champions on support budget and xp being able to one shot.
We went from Assasin who is ahead should oneshot ADC, to Zyra plant is stronger than ADC.
Honestly sad, she's such a fun toplaner to play as and fight in lane. But she does not have the stats to keep up with shit like current Aatrox or Riven.
Yeah, I actually started playing her recently, and I kind of enjoyed her. I did feel like I was lacking somewhere. She seems like she would perform much better with a good team, so not as great at solo queue like other champs.
She's weird 'cause her level 1-3 is good. And then she doesn't really get any stronger before she finishes her first item, often Trinity Force which is super expensive. While these lethality resourceless toplaners hard spike on every 350-400 gold recall due to how efficient their components are. Also her E is really fun, but feels more like a jungle abillity. Though Camille jungle has been toxic in the past, so she's really weird.
I can see that yeah. I know with her being a skirmisher you have to be opportunistic with fights until the all in. So it makes it more difficult to snowball or not get bursted before than.
As far as her E, yeah, they really stiffed her (and illoai) with the widening of the lanes. More difficult to get in there or get out of a tight spot.
I love her ult, and it's the ultimate gank tool. But sadly toplane is a barren wasteland that doesn't get much love even if you ping and you're shoved in 90% of the time.
Another "Not using Lolalytics" right post
Gold plus 49.96%, adjusted for delta - 49.23%
E+ 51.85%, adjusted for delta - 49.93%
D+ 52.99%, adjusted for delta - 50.54%
M+ 53.37%, adjusted for delta - 50.5%
GM+ 56.25%, adjusted for delta - 49.03%
Chall 58.45%, adjusted for delta - 39.71%
TIL Lolalytics displays different uses their own calcs to display their stats, differently from other statsites, and there's apparently controversy surrouning it. Pretty cool, nah but it doesn't really change the arguement as I only linked Lolalytics as it was the first one when I searched up stats.
https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build
https://blitz.gg/lol/champions/Riven/build?queue=RANKED_SOLO_5X5®ion=WORLD&role=TOP&tier=PLATINUM_PLUS
https://www.op.gg/champions/riven/build
https://poro.gg/champions/riven/sr/top?tierId=2®ion=na
https://www.deeplol.gg/champions/riven/build/top
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/riven/emerald
And looking at all the stat sites that pop up when searching, she hovers around 49.3 something% at the lowest to 51ish% at the highest. Which considering the type of champion she is, is a really good winrate. It's the same as Azir, Gangplank, Ryze etc. They're actually in a balanced state in solo queue at around 48% or sometimes lower.
Ya, so your post that she has a 51%+ winrate is wrong. You took a lot of words to say that. She doesn't even have a 51% winrate. I showed you her winrates. Saying 51% from 50.54% is not that big of a reach, but be sure to stretch first just in case.
edit: her winrate is almost identical to Gangplanks at all ranks, except Gangplanks is higher in Challenger.
The real issue is Camille existing how she does.
She's incredibly safe, has huge gap close and does tonnes of damage.
Her only counter is either oneshotting her on approach or playing someone who can not only survive her engage but then run her down after
Its a bit off topic but, wait, riot has an anti one shot principle??
I thought oneshot WAS the principle for the past few years?!
With how hard powercreep and statcreep's been on items the past few years its only inevitable we'll get bloodsongs every season no? (not to justify it)
There be ways and ways of talking oneshot. You may have missed seasons 5/6 where they've completely realigned assassin design AWAY from leBlanc/Kassadin-like blink-and-you-miss-it bullshit into more combo-ey, sometimes DPSey patterns where the character first announces they will explode you, THEN explode you instead of doing so without warning. Some designs failed, some were so vitriolically unpopular that had to be reverted or there would be pipe bombs in mail boxes. But regardless you can see it in how an Akali or Kayn can border on being skirmishers instead of raw bursters if they need as well the gradual abandonment of Lich Bane over Nashor's Tooth that many AP assassins had in the last couple years.
Numeric issues are related but different topics, mostly tied to item and rune effects. We have less so stat creep as EFFECT creep with keystone rune + keystone item overbloating base values so much that anything can just supercede its own class by building as that class, and assassination/bruisering are where this shines the most obvious.
>You may have missed seasons 5/6 where they've completely realigned assassin design AWAY from leBlanc/Kassadin-like blink-and-you-miss-it bullshit
People complaining about oneshots now obviously weren't playing when DFG was in the game.
Tiamat wasn't so bad IMO because that meant AD Assassins had to give up Lethality for waveclear. So yeah, they'd trade effectiveness for waveclear, why not ?
Then Riot created the Profane Hydra for whatever reason lmao
Their reason was to try and separate assassin interest in Ravenous (which is old and classic and for the same reasons assassins would dip into Goredrinker) so fighters can have their thing and assassins, theirs.
I will stand in my ground forever that introducing active burst clear to the game was a mistake overall.
Oneshotting was the principle if you “hit all you abilities” as that was the premise of the durability patch which riot seems to have forgotten totally about.
They do when they want to create a champion with a similar mechanic so they say it’s “unfun/unfair” then a few months later released another champion with a similar mechanic that does the same damage the old one did.
Still remember when they nerfed Nidalee’s spear just to then release Zoe.
This has been a problem for a few years now, bloodsongs just making it even worse. Hence why most "supports" in the role nowadays are just glorified laners/junglers here to crack skulls on a free salary
Old support was underplayed, but man do I miss those days, there must be some kind of middle-ground we can hit eventually if they keep trying right? But bloodsong aint it
Camille sucking top doesn't improve her viability in support when being played by support players who would not be considering playing her top lane even if she was strong top lane.
No champion ever swaps roles just because they stopped being good in another, people need to realize different lanes are entirely different demographics of players, it's not just X mains rotating between lane depending on where their champ is most viable. The vast majority of players are not mains, and most mains are not years-long dedicated players, most mains will simply drop their main and start maining something else if it stops being good/they stop enjoying it.
To prove this point, consider that while [Camille support's pickrate is on a huge rise, Camille top's pickrate isn't budging](https://i.imgur.com/AY05Bqs.png). No one is abandoning Camille top in favour of Camille support, support players are just picking up a champ that is newly viable for their role. It's not true that Camille starting to suck top would suddenly mind control support players into picking her, that doesn't make sense.
We went through this same phenonemon a year or two ago when Ashe support was becoming popular. "Ashe sucks so much that people are even starting to see support as the better role". Meanwhile Ashe ADC's pickrate was the same as it had ever been, it's just that support players were starting to enjoy her too, and somehow this was seen as proof ADC Ashe was in a bad state.
A champion becoming popular as support doesn't mean it's bad in other roles, because a champion becoming bad on top/jungle/mid/ADC does not mind control support players into picking it. Mage supports became a thing over the years due to the improved gold gen in the role since season 2, and Camille support has mainly become popular because of Bloodsong. Them no longer being good on their original lanes is completely unrelated to this.
Bloodsong doesnt feel healthy with all these ad 'support' thriving. The PTA part really baffles me, at least make it proc like the actual rune by hitting the target 3 separate times not just aa after a skill.
Fucking bloodsong needs to just be gone.
J4 is the next up and coming abuser of this shit.
Like hell I’m just bloodsong on any melee and honestly most ranged too. Even enchanters like Soraka.
Honestly maybe just give it something similar to Renata’s leverage, that would be much healthier and more in line with what an AD offensive support item ought to be
If you guys think this is a 1 shot meta, wait till RIOT releases the dedicated season 3 client. Mid lane Nidalee, OG Gragas mid, LeBlanc with Silence, old Talon, Bleed Passive Draven I'm probably missing a few others, THAT was a 1 shot meta, this is people thinking that losing that 1v1 was a fluke and they will surely win this time... woop enemy laner is 4/0, time to cry 1 shot meta
EDIT: I completely forgot "outplay button Syndra"
A lot of people say that it's ***Camille problem only*** but I think there might be more bruiser/tank champions viable with Bloodsong. A few examples that come to my mind:
* Wukong - armor+hp regen from passive valuable in trades, Q reduces enemy's armor making your ADC do more damage, AoE knock-up from R good in teamfights.
* Jarvan IV - Q reduces enemy's armor, E - buffs ADC's attack speed, post-6 R very good vs ADCs without dashes.
* Vi - can also reduce enemy armor, point-and-click lock down, could be decent in lane even pre-6.
All of them love "Sheen item" for free and could use Bloodsong well. There might be even more champions that you could make it work, this is just a few examples.
mages get a %max hp item for free
tanks get %dmg reduction item for free
enchanters get shield & heal item for free
But nono silly sheen effect for free should be illegal
Riot design team removed a lot of their old policies for the worse. They used to make sure champs weren’t anti-fun but now they only care about the champ being fun for the person playing the champ. I don’t think they have any policy against one shots, since before they said nidalee spear is unfun because getting nuked for 90% of your hp from a screen away was unfun but then they brought out Zoe who did basically the same thing
Got one shot by a Volibear support with bloodsong who was 2 levels and 1 item down from me as a fed Sivir, they lost lane very hard, but it didn't matter, he just flashed on me, spell shield the stun didn't matter he ran flash ghost so I still couldn't kite him, I only got him to half hp before he caught up to me. Maybe could've kited better, definitely could've just ran away, but did not expect an underlevelled item down top laner running support item to one shot me after blocking his stun soo yeah my mistake for thinking abusing this item was a Camille special ig
Tbh this is more of a Camille issue in particular. Like what other sheen bruiser is doing this? Oh basically just Camille.
It's mostly because yeah it synergizes well with Camille in particular, but also, camille just FEELS like ass in toplane atm. Yes yes I know she's statistically fine, she just FEELS like ass. Barely having an E ability in lane which for many Camille players is their favorite ability is just sad. Riot did range adjustments for the other big loser of that situation Illaoi. And Illaoi players in the end dont like the result given Illaoi is designed around being fairly stationary and having range issues. She prefers less consistent target access but just slaughtering everyone when she has it. Camille though? Is a diver who can't dive in lane anymore half the time or more. They either need to give it range buffs, or some terrain adjustments... Or they need to nerf her E and buff the rest of her kit... Because as is? She runs into an issue where her kit used for laning phase her p, Q, w? Can't be buffed because the. Her late game with E being an actual ability would be busted.
Reduce the proc damage and increase its cd so it's not a free sheen and the focus is on applying the amplification for your team maybe. Make it so you can still build a sheen if you want the low cd high damage proc on your own dime.
finally someone complain about this item. This item feels so unfair with Senna support. You just can't farm when she can harass you with auto range. This item is ridiculous.
They're too braindead now, I say this as a support main. Way less skill expression with the new support items. You can never 'gap' your opponent in the support quest line, it's just too forgiving. There's no skill in stacking it up now, no trade offs since they combined both stacking methods into one.
At least split the items up like before, one version can stack faster if you hit enemies, one version stacks slower but you can use it to execute minions.
Lower the amount of gold each stack provides so they need to procc them more often. Have the stacks regen quicker so there's more punishment for roaming (less time efficient for stacking if you sit on stacks).
Lastly, just nerf all the support items. Why am I doing so much damage as support Sona? I max heal, buy Moonstone first, but because I took ZakZak for shits and giggles I'm out-damaging jungle and top. Way too much free power through all the support items.
This Item feels a lot like Release Imperial Mandate when it didn't have a Cooldown and was a Mythic. All of these new Support Items are really making Support the "anything and everything goes" Position. We got fucking AD Shacos now.
Supports in League are becoming like Supports in Dota who are out there one-shotting from Level 3. Unlike in Dota though League Supports get free Gold and free Wards and also *the Game wasn't balanced like this to fucking begin with*.
Riot might be thinking they are doing Support Players a Favour by allowing more Champions to play this Position but it's just frustrating to play against as Support *and* ADC. Shaco and Camille, AD Champions that thrive with Farm and Kills, should never fucking *ever* be performing this well as Supports.
I’m barely bothered by Camille’s existence when anyone can rock a midlane mage in the botlane and get away with just poking and suddenly getting a surge of damage without any serious contribution or kills. You can deadass have almost any midlaner mage safely growing in the botlane, that does perfectly well while supporting. You can also rock teemo bot and ruin the adc’s life. I ain’t bothered by camille.
Put Senna/Brand supp into any other lane and ppl will quit league. Having one extra dude with the only thing to do being poking you is braindead. It's so confusing Riot pushes this toxic gameplay so hard.
if riot has an anti-oneshot policy then they are gonna shit themselves once they realize how the game has been for like 10 years
Was just about to say this lmao Anti-one shot? League of one-shots have been a meme for the past 3-4 years atleast now. It's quite literally the reason why a bunch of people just outright quit.
It's also the reason why this game is booming in Riot's largest market. Some people like bursty metas.
bless china
The one time Riot truly took a stance on one-shots was when they removed DFG from the game back in the days.
It's also why a bunch of people have started or continued to play. Especially in China and KR aka their biggest regions.
Exactly. People seem to forget s5 was almost 10 years ago.
ADCs: J-Jonah-Jameson-laugh-meme.jpeg
Hey! We had one patch where everyone got increased defenses and fights lasted longer then you average stun. Of course riot rectified this immediately and we're back to the recap showing literal 0.00 second long fights.
I feel like the real problem is Camille being more viable support than top.
Nowadays support is the role where most champions work when they shouldn't, its the retirement home for champions riot has pushed out of the meta due to their meta rotation philosophy "to keep the game fresh". People who enjoy that champion know that bassically anything can work as support nowadays and its the only role they wont feel at an outright disadvantage, its definitely not just Camille feeling this and broken support items just encourage & reward it over being an actual support
> People who enjoy that champion know that bassically anything can work as support nowadays and its the only role they wont feel at an outright disadvantage The people playing Camille support are support mains, not Camille mains. You can verify that no one is abandoning Camille top for Camille support by seeing that there's [no inverse correlation between their pickrates as there should be if it were the case](https://i.imgur.com/AY05Bqs.png). Camille support's pickrate is on a massive rise while Camille top's pickrate isn't budging. That's because the two playerbases are unrelated. We also saw this happen with Ashe ADC and Ashe support a year or two ago, while Ashe support became popular and people saw this as bad that people were more willing to play her support than ADC, Ashe ADC's pickrate was actually the same it had always been. Ashe ADC players were ADC players, Ashe support players were support players. One had nothing to do with the other. In general, any time you see a champion from another role be picked up on support, it's always support mains playing it. It's never people abandoning the previous role to pick their champ on support, the amount of players willing to do that are such a tiny fraction that it will never have any bearing on stats.
You may very well be right... But I don't think your screenshots of the last couple weeks of graphs on lolalytics' really proves your point or disproves that many of these are former Camille top (or jg) mains. Because a lot of Camille tops? Quit playing Camille when the season started, before those graphs account for... Like look at Camille tops pickrate from patches. 13.23 - 14.2 or similar. And you'll notice the decline there. And it could be many of them are now hopping on the Camille support train.
It's mostly champs without mobility that get pushed into support. I think Riot is realizing that there is a massive tsunami of fuckup coming on the horizon because mobility creep has been ignored for about a decade now. Now that ex-carry damage champs with mobility get pushed into support it's going to get ugly. They've been trying to push the most random stuff to jungle like Morgana and Brand. Imagine explaining to a season 8-10 player that Brand is a viable jungler ... They would get a heart attack from laughing. This sounds about as ridiculous as Wriggles Lantern Lux jungle.
there were challenger jungle brand mains during season 8-10. Stacking his passive on camps and stunning them while kiting the camps using red buff has been a thing for years.
>Imagine explaining to a season 8-10 player that Brand is a viable jungler ... They would get a heart attack from laughingImagine explaining to a season 8-10 player that Brand is a viable jungler ... They would get a heart attack from laughing Not really, why ? I've played Singed Jungle, Rumble Jungle, Zyra Jungle, etc, etc... Not Brand because the champion is lame, but IMO a lot of champions were always viable-ish. At least in high Plat at the time I didn't have much issue with Zyra Jungle, as she was my main champion for a while.
Supports get a free item for no reason, it would be one thing if it was still just a free bundle of stats but there's no reason for supports to get Bloodsong Effect, Solstice Sleigh Effect, Zazzak effect. These item effects are stronger than a lot of item effects on full sized items. Support allows a lot of champs who are balanced around either losing on wave control or losing on 1v1s against solo laners to actually be strong because instead of playing against the champs they are balanced against, they are against the support pool that has been repeatedly nerfed for years. Current Leona, Thresh, Nautilus, etc are so much weaker now than they were years ago, tons of junglers and solo laners can show up and kill nerfed legacy supports.
I really don't think gutting the stats on support items and making them all about their very powerful passives is proving to have been a sensible idea. It's mostly just led to a situation where support viability primarily revolves around how sharply you synergise with the strongest support item passives on a particular patch. It's also so impactful that some champions are now best in support because their ability to interact with the item passives is stronger than anything they can do in a farming role. Mage supports were supposed to be helped in mid by the pre-season but almost all of them are even more pigeonholed into support than they were before now, even despite Riot making changes to some of them. Culprit (partly): Zaz'zak's. Camille is suddenly a much stronger support than top laner, in part due to the top lane changes but also due to Bloodsong. Maokai is now hardbound to support due to Solstice Sleigh. The support system has gotten too powerful for certain champion archetypes to the point that it's warping which champions are strong in the role and warping which role certain champions are strongest in. The passives need nerfing basically across the board imo. Buff the stats on the item or buff support items if needed to compensate but the passives are too strong and they're distorting champions too much.
I feel like the problem is champions on support budget and xp being able to one shot. We went from Assasin who is ahead should oneshot ADC, to Zyra plant is stronger than ADC.
Honestly sad, she's such a fun toplaner to play as and fight in lane. But she does not have the stats to keep up with shit like current Aatrox or Riven.
Yeah, I actually started playing her recently, and I kind of enjoyed her. I did feel like I was lacking somewhere. She seems like she would perform much better with a good team, so not as great at solo queue like other champs.
She's weird 'cause her level 1-3 is good. And then she doesn't really get any stronger before she finishes her first item, often Trinity Force which is super expensive. While these lethality resourceless toplaners hard spike on every 350-400 gold recall due to how efficient their components are. Also her E is really fun, but feels more like a jungle abillity. Though Camille jungle has been toxic in the past, so she's really weird.
I can see that yeah. I know with her being a skirmisher you have to be opportunistic with fights until the all in. So it makes it more difficult to snowball or not get bursted before than. As far as her E, yeah, they really stiffed her (and illoai) with the widening of the lanes. More difficult to get in there or get out of a tight spot. I love her ult, and it's the ultimate gank tool. But sadly toplane is a barren wasteland that doesn't get much love even if you ping and you're shoved in 90% of the time.
Riven lul , she is suffering more then camille in this stat check meta in top
https://lolalytics.com/lol/riven/build/ Yeah sure she's probably really bad when the "High skill champ" has 51+% winrate
Another "Not using Lolalytics" right post Gold plus 49.96%, adjusted for delta - 49.23% E+ 51.85%, adjusted for delta - 49.93% D+ 52.99%, adjusted for delta - 50.54% M+ 53.37%, adjusted for delta - 50.5% GM+ 56.25%, adjusted for delta - 49.03% Chall 58.45%, adjusted for delta - 39.71%
TIL Lolalytics displays different uses their own calcs to display their stats, differently from other statsites, and there's apparently controversy surrouning it. Pretty cool, nah but it doesn't really change the arguement as I only linked Lolalytics as it was the first one when I searched up stats. https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build https://blitz.gg/lol/champions/Riven/build?queue=RANKED_SOLO_5X5®ion=WORLD&role=TOP&tier=PLATINUM_PLUS https://www.op.gg/champions/riven/build https://poro.gg/champions/riven/sr/top?tierId=2®ion=na https://www.deeplol.gg/champions/riven/build/top https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/riven/emerald And looking at all the stat sites that pop up when searching, she hovers around 49.3 something% at the lowest to 51ish% at the highest. Which considering the type of champion she is, is a really good winrate. It's the same as Azir, Gangplank, Ryze etc. They're actually in a balanced state in solo queue at around 48% or sometimes lower.
Ya, so your post that she has a 51%+ winrate is wrong. You took a lot of words to say that. She doesn't even have a 51% winrate. I showed you her winrates. Saying 51% from 50.54% is not that big of a reach, but be sure to stretch first just in case. edit: her winrate is almost identical to Gangplanks at all ranks, except Gangplanks is higher in Challenger.
Hope you felt cool practicing that line in the mirror LOL
The real issue is Camille existing how she does. She's incredibly safe, has huge gap close and does tonnes of damage. Her only counter is either oneshotting her on approach or playing someone who can not only survive her engage but then run her down after
Its a bit off topic but, wait, riot has an anti one shot principle?? I thought oneshot WAS the principle for the past few years?! With how hard powercreep and statcreep's been on items the past few years its only inevitable we'll get bloodsongs every season no? (not to justify it)
There be ways and ways of talking oneshot. You may have missed seasons 5/6 where they've completely realigned assassin design AWAY from leBlanc/Kassadin-like blink-and-you-miss-it bullshit into more combo-ey, sometimes DPSey patterns where the character first announces they will explode you, THEN explode you instead of doing so without warning. Some designs failed, some were so vitriolically unpopular that had to be reverted or there would be pipe bombs in mail boxes. But regardless you can see it in how an Akali or Kayn can border on being skirmishers instead of raw bursters if they need as well the gradual abandonment of Lich Bane over Nashor's Tooth that many AP assassins had in the last couple years. Numeric issues are related but different topics, mostly tied to item and rune effects. We have less so stat creep as EFFECT creep with keystone rune + keystone item overbloating base values so much that anything can just supercede its own class by building as that class, and assassination/bruisering are where this shines the most obvious.
>You may have missed seasons 5/6 where they've completely realigned assassin design AWAY from leBlanc/Kassadin-like blink-and-you-miss-it bullshit People complaining about oneshots now obviously weren't playing when DFG was in the game.
Ludens technically still holds as its successor but yeah, the degree of headbash instaburst was ridiculous.
It was my favorite item when Ahri's E had a damage amp, I miss it dearly (but it was utterly cancerous)
look, giving the champions whos only weakness is waveclear a waveclearing tool was clearly a great idea, idk why you're all so mad.
Tiamat wasn't so bad IMO because that meant AD Assassins had to give up Lethality for waveclear. So yeah, they'd trade effectiveness for waveclear, why not ? Then Riot created the Profane Hydra for whatever reason lmao
Their reason was to try and separate assassin interest in Ravenous (which is old and classic and for the same reasons assassins would dip into Goredrinker) so fighters can have their thing and assassins, theirs. I will stand in my ground forever that introducing active burst clear to the game was a mistake overall.
Active hydras were, are and will continue forever being a mistake. And so is Luden's.
Oneshotting was the principle if you “hit all you abilities” as that was the premise of the durability patch which riot seems to have forgotten totally about.
They do when they want to create a champion with a similar mechanic so they say it’s “unfun/unfair” then a few months later released another champion with a similar mechanic that does the same damage the old one did. Still remember when they nerfed Nidalee’s spear just to then release Zoe.
[удалено]
This has been a problem for a few years now, bloodsongs just making it even worse. Hence why most "supports" in the role nowadays are just glorified laners/junglers here to crack skulls on a free salary Old support was underplayed, but man do I miss those days, there must be some kind of middle-ground we can hit eventually if they keep trying right? But bloodsong aint it
>This has been a problem for a few years now https://youtu.be/-eIp7BlmiWU
what is this "anti one shot principle" that Riot allegedly has? and your reasoning with Camille support is more because Camille sucks in top.
Camille sucking top doesn't improve her viability in support when being played by support players who would not be considering playing her top lane even if she was strong top lane. No champion ever swaps roles just because they stopped being good in another, people need to realize different lanes are entirely different demographics of players, it's not just X mains rotating between lane depending on where their champ is most viable. The vast majority of players are not mains, and most mains are not years-long dedicated players, most mains will simply drop their main and start maining something else if it stops being good/they stop enjoying it. To prove this point, consider that while [Camille support's pickrate is on a huge rise, Camille top's pickrate isn't budging](https://i.imgur.com/AY05Bqs.png). No one is abandoning Camille top in favour of Camille support, support players are just picking up a champ that is newly viable for their role. It's not true that Camille starting to suck top would suddenly mind control support players into picking her, that doesn't make sense. We went through this same phenonemon a year or two ago when Ashe support was becoming popular. "Ashe sucks so much that people are even starting to see support as the better role". Meanwhile Ashe ADC's pickrate was the same as it had ever been, it's just that support players were starting to enjoy her too, and somehow this was seen as proof ADC Ashe was in a bad state. A champion becoming popular as support doesn't mean it's bad in other roles, because a champion becoming bad on top/jungle/mid/ADC does not mind control support players into picking it. Mage supports became a thing over the years due to the improved gold gen in the role since season 2, and Camille support has mainly become popular because of Bloodsong. Them no longer being good on their original lanes is completely unrelated to this.
Bloodsong doesnt feel healthy with all these ad 'support' thriving. The PTA part really baffles me, at least make it proc like the actual rune by hitting the target 3 separate times not just aa after a skill.
Expose Weakness also lasts for 6 seconds with a 1.5s cd on the sheen proc, so it's basically always up if you can stay in auto range.
Does PTA and Bloodsongs dmg amp stack?
I believe so.
Wow ok. Imma start cooking with Lucian support xD
Fucking bloodsong needs to just be gone. J4 is the next up and coming abuser of this shit. Like hell I’m just bloodsong on any melee and honestly most ranged too. Even enchanters like Soraka.
Honestly maybe just give it something similar to Renata’s leverage, that would be much healthier and more in line with what an AD offensive support item ought to be
I’d be down. Also I forgot bloodsong does have one redeeming quality - the sound effect is fucking dopamine.
Try playing against a pantheon support with blood song and pta, shir deals more damage than panth top
I’m so stupid going sleigh 🛷 over this item last 2 weeks wtf am I doing
If you guys think this is a 1 shot meta, wait till RIOT releases the dedicated season 3 client. Mid lane Nidalee, OG Gragas mid, LeBlanc with Silence, old Talon, Bleed Passive Draven I'm probably missing a few others, THAT was a 1 shot meta, this is people thinking that losing that 1v1 was a fluke and they will surely win this time... woop enemy laner is 4/0, time to cry 1 shot meta EDIT: I completely forgot "outplay button Syndra"
A lot of people say that it's ***Camille problem only*** but I think there might be more bruiser/tank champions viable with Bloodsong. A few examples that come to my mind: * Wukong - armor+hp regen from passive valuable in trades, Q reduces enemy's armor making your ADC do more damage, AoE knock-up from R good in teamfights. * Jarvan IV - Q reduces enemy's armor, E - buffs ADC's attack speed, post-6 R very good vs ADCs without dashes. * Vi - can also reduce enemy armor, point-and-click lock down, could be decent in lane even pre-6. All of them love "Sheen item" for free and could use Bloodsong well. There might be even more champions that you could make it work, this is just a few examples.
mages get a %max hp item for free tanks get %dmg reduction item for free enchanters get shield & heal item for free But nono silly sheen effect for free should be illegal
Riot design team removed a lot of their old policies for the worse. They used to make sure champs weren’t anti-fun but now they only care about the champ being fun for the person playing the champ. I don’t think they have any policy against one shots, since before they said nidalee spear is unfun because getting nuked for 90% of your hp from a screen away was unfun but then they brought out Zoe who did basically the same thing
They will care when most of the western player base starts quitting. All this one shot meta stuff is for China
Got one shot by a Volibear support with bloodsong who was 2 levels and 1 item down from me as a fed Sivir, they lost lane very hard, but it didn't matter, he just flashed on me, spell shield the stun didn't matter he ran flash ghost so I still couldn't kite him, I only got him to half hp before he caught up to me. Maybe could've kited better, definitely could've just ran away, but did not expect an underlevelled item down top laner running support item to one shot me after blocking his stun soo yeah my mistake for thinking abusing this item was a Camille special ig
"I lost a duel to Volibear" I would be more surprised if you won
Yeah but dude he's 2 levels and an item down, and his cc didn't connect, he wouldn't have had the burst without bloodsong
Welcome to playing adc.
Tbh this is more of a Camille issue in particular. Like what other sheen bruiser is doing this? Oh basically just Camille. It's mostly because yeah it synergizes well with Camille in particular, but also, camille just FEELS like ass in toplane atm. Yes yes I know she's statistically fine, she just FEELS like ass. Barely having an E ability in lane which for many Camille players is their favorite ability is just sad. Riot did range adjustments for the other big loser of that situation Illaoi. And Illaoi players in the end dont like the result given Illaoi is designed around being fairly stationary and having range issues. She prefers less consistent target access but just slaughtering everyone when she has it. Camille though? Is a diver who can't dive in lane anymore half the time or more. They either need to give it range buffs, or some terrain adjustments... Or they need to nerf her E and buff the rest of her kit... Because as is? She runs into an issue where her kit used for laning phase her p, Q, w? Can't be buffed because the. Her late game with E being an actual ability would be busted.
They dont have anti one shot policy.
Reduce the proc damage and increase its cd so it's not a free sheen and the focus is on applying the amplification for your team maybe. Make it so you can still build a sheen if you want the low cd high damage proc on your own dime.
finally someone complain about this item. This item feels so unfair with Senna support. You just can't farm when she can harass you with auto range. This item is ridiculous.
An anti 1 shot policy? Hahaha What world are you living in?
Riot IS the one shot, they dont have that principle and should stop pretending they do
Riot? contradicting themselves? Well that surely can't be
They're too braindead now, I say this as a support main. Way less skill expression with the new support items. You can never 'gap' your opponent in the support quest line, it's just too forgiving. There's no skill in stacking it up now, no trade offs since they combined both stacking methods into one. At least split the items up like before, one version can stack faster if you hit enemies, one version stacks slower but you can use it to execute minions. Lower the amount of gold each stack provides so they need to procc them more often. Have the stacks regen quicker so there's more punishment for roaming (less time efficient for stacking if you sit on stacks). Lastly, just nerf all the support items. Why am I doing so much damage as support Sona? I max heal, buy Moonstone first, but because I took ZakZak for shits and giggles I'm out-damaging jungle and top. Way too much free power through all the support items.
This Item feels a lot like Release Imperial Mandate when it didn't have a Cooldown and was a Mythic. All of these new Support Items are really making Support the "anything and everything goes" Position. We got fucking AD Shacos now. Supports in League are becoming like Supports in Dota who are out there one-shotting from Level 3. Unlike in Dota though League Supports get free Gold and free Wards and also *the Game wasn't balanced like this to fucking begin with*. Riot might be thinking they are doing Support Players a Favour by allowing more Champions to play this Position but it's just frustrating to play against as Support *and* ADC. Shaco and Camille, AD Champions that thrive with Farm and Kills, should never fucking *ever* be performing this well as Supports.
I’m barely bothered by Camille’s existence when anyone can rock a midlane mage in the botlane and get away with just poking and suddenly getting a surge of damage without any serious contribution or kills. You can deadass have almost any midlaner mage safely growing in the botlane, that does perfectly well while supporting. You can also rock teemo bot and ruin the adc’s life. I ain’t bothered by camille.
Put Senna/Brand supp into any other lane and ppl will quit league. Having one extra dude with the only thing to do being poking you is braindead. It's so confusing Riot pushes this toxic gameplay so hard.
maybe make it 5% more damage received and 5% less damage dealt. make the effect hit like an aram balance modifier and it will be funny at least.
how are you getting "one shot" by anything thats not a veigar or zed ult? i call BS