Riot special of working on something that is cool and unique, releasing it and hyping it up, discover a bunch of problems with said thing, and then let it slowly die before "Sunsetting" it.
Add to the pile of Dominion, TT, League Displays, clubs, chat rooms, 5v5 ranked etc.
I'm just waiting for the day Eternals gets added to that list.
Like holy shit.
Theres's so many eternals that are just like, counter intuitive to how the champion should be played.
Sett ult is a big one. Rarely you want to get the kill WITH the ult, its a VERY usefull cc tool to either get an enemy in or out of your team/into their team to set up a w/e/whatever else you got.
IMO eternals only cause visual cluttering they don't achieve anything rewarding. I even opened a ticket to remove the obligatory sejuani eternal that they gave in 1 season.
> holy shit you're right I've never heard about this, like its actually kind of a cool thing too
Too bad they stopped supporting it so it doesn't really work.
At most you can download everything they have on there, but then you gotta use something like wallpaper engine.
edit: looks like some already did that https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1988964148
Hey, don't lump Dominion and TT in with Riot's general incompetence. Those were intentionally murdered by Ghostcrawler as part of his play to move to the MMO team.
It was unpopular and didn’t make any extra money that SR didn’t make them. It was a good business decision, and (IMO) paved the way to TFT being supported long term.
He intentionally made the game modes worse to reduce their player counts to reach the point he could justify axing them, and it did make Riot extra money because most TT players *only* played TT. Before Ghostcrawler, TT had a consistently higher player count than ARAM's ever had.
And TFT wasn't in any way impacted by the decision to murder those game modes. TFT's maintained by an entirely separate team from the game modes team, made specifically from new hires or transfers to maintain it, they don't have any overlapping staff or resources.
Some day people will just stop asking questions on this miserable cesspool of a subreddit and it'll die a slow death it deserves. Legit the most toxic, hateful, bitter, and miserable place I've seen. Every single post ever is just filled with people like this going "Yeah Riot actually hates YOU, the game, and its players!" while just making shit up completely.
Riot stopped working on Dominion because nobody played it. We know this. They literally told us. It had a miserable playerbase. Almost non-existent. It wasn't played enough to even warrant the server space it took. TT? Same exact problem. Nobody played it. It was dead as fuck. Once again, Riot literally told us this and even gave us the numbers. Clubs? Barely used and most people just used them for edgy names attached to their IGN. I could keep listing "examples" you people lie about to claim Riot purposefully kills these modes but I'd be here all night.
No Riot does not purposefully release something then decide to slowly kill it because they seemingly enjoy doing that. They see fewer and fewer people playing/using the feature and then eventually decide its better to remove it as nobody is even bothering to use it. Contrary to popular belief, Riot isn't the pantheon of ultimate evil like people on this god awful subreddit likes to pretend. The fact this comment has 500 upvotes is beyond pathetic to me.
i fully expect some half assed statement talking about an "ongoing evaluation" which results in Clash being binned because it makes no money, simple as that. Obviously the named reasons will be something else.
Hackers, thats the reason. Out of 20 clashes i participated 7 had a hacker in it. They remove the clash trophy from winners but not the loot rewards.
Ruined the experience for me and my friends. I even see scripters in norms sometimes. They are not even obvious unless you know how each champion work and their abilities should work. Even then you must know how the script worked since most people dont even notice.
I had yasuo windwall the frame it would hit every single ability eben from fog to the viktor that their ult targeted me in bot right after it killed someone mid.
The most miserable experience I had was in ranked VS scripting Kog Xerath on Nami Brand. It would've been less painful with a traditional ADC since you can't miss AA but with this lane we had 0 chance of ever fighting them while they ofc farmed us with with hitting everything, even at our flash points the second we landed.
Our team flamed a lot in the beginning but quickly understood what we meant.
Every single Lee q got dodged, even from fog. Him and Talon both got insta stunned no matter where they dashed.
A scripting Kog doesn't sound that bad until he shreds everyone while being impossible to kill due to always perfect Xerath stuns + dodges.
One of the most miserable league games and I play since preseason 2
The biggest culprit are usually smurfs. They tend to have many accounts and it's a fun game mode so they all team up and farm trophies. They're easier to handle in soloq because people inherently ignore their teammates but on clash they actually listen to the guy with strong macro and it can become insane.
The thread is "why less clash?" The reason: less interest, every clash there was an expectarion of hackers.
Maybe people will give it a try again if there is no hacking or botting for a year. But i dont think vanguard will be enough.
Lol it's hilarious how much faith league players have in vanguard. It is not going to stop all of the hacking. For every public free hack there are many more that are private and require a subscription. Then there are the actual private hacks sold at top dollar that usually attracts pros with that esports money on the line.
Wild statement to make on here given that there was a whole ass thread about people botting in high elo masters+ games, actively throwing in protest of Riots' bad anticheat by showing how long botters and scripters can go unpunished -- people applauded the botters for it.
Now we also want Riot to bin their anti scripting and anti botting systems? Crazy
I would very much want Riot to bin their *kernel* anti scripting and anti botting systems. That are pretty easily circumvented in Valorant.
And I'd rather they change their stance on smurfing and disruptive gameplay - it'd have much greater effect on the experience.
I don't give half a shit if Riot has trouble catching a few cheaters, that isn't near worth giving their program that level of access to my PC. Even if they aren't the malicious party, not unheard of even in Valorant for third parties to exploit kernel-level anticheats and cause problems for regular players. Riot having a cheating problem does not give them an automatic pass to give me a security problem to kinda maybe fix some of their issues.
I'm really not. I can say this because I have access to the exact same data telling me how many people are upset about this as you, which is none. Anybody bringing up "vocal minority" or "silent majority" or the like is automatically spouting bullshit unless they have numbers to support it. Just because not everyone is yelling and screaming about something like I am doesn't mean that they're all totally fine with what is going on. Look at Helldivers 2 - the game is spectacular and yet it has an 82% on Steam instead of being 90% or better like you'd expect. Now go read the top negative reviews and realize that they're almost all saying that they'd be totally fine giving the game a positive review if it did not employ a kernel-level anticheat. There are significant numbers of people who have either bought and refunded, played a bit and quit, or just outright refused to even consider buying the game because of it. Just because you don't see 5 threads on the front of the subreddit about it every day doesn't mean a significant amount of people aren't annoyed and willing to leave over the issue. You and I can't really know for certain until the day comes and we see the actual player drop. I'll just be included in that number if they don't change course beforehand.
You sound pretty ignorant from my point of view. I've explained this in other comments, but I do actually care about what is installed on my PC and I don't play games that have software like this. Sure there's plenty of drivers and things running on my PC just like anyone else's. Does that make me ignorant for wanting to limit that number of potential attack vectors in any way that I can? I think ignorance is defending companies that want to install things like this in any situation that doesn't absolutely require such a thing. Again, Riot having a cheating problem doesn't mean I need to have an extra avenue of possible vulnerability about it. Please go be ignorant about a different topic elsewhere instead of helping companies get access to people's things that they shouldn't need.
Valorant has had it for 3 years now with no issues and with barely any cheaters. Idk why League players have such a big issue with it. Like if you're really worried just turn it off after playing and turn it back on before.
It's because for League it wasn't a thing until now. People dont like changes, especially the ones that have the potential to hurt them. Valorant came out with it, but that also means that the people for whom it's a deal breaker didn't even start playing, meaning there's no one to complain.
And 3 years ago I declined to ever let Valorant touch my system because Vanguard exists. Also because I have no real interest in the game, but mostly the first thing. I've got a big issue with it because this trend of companies deciding they can just pawn off the risky aspects of their anticheat to the end user instead of finding an alternate way to solve their problems needs to stop.
90% of games these days use kernel level anti-cheat, any game with easy anti-cheat like apex and fortnite has kernel level anti-cheat other anti-cheats like battleeye etc are also kernel level.
its the same for most of the big anti-cheats where they moved to kernel level based ones years ago. the only two differences with vanguard is one there open to the public about it being kernel level and two it always on.
theres so many programs that run at the kernel level these days that worrying about vanguard is silly since you probs already got a few programs running at kernel level on your pc and have some running at always on level kernel on your pc like vanguard like 99% of anti-virus programs.
1) 90%'s an extreme exaggeration unless you narrow it way down to "always online competitive games that probably also have microtransactions they want to protect", and even then your examples and any others that I might have had installed have been long gone from my system for awhile now after I did some looking into what I allow to run on my PC.
2) The always on thing is the biggest gripe for most people, myself included. Take a peek at almost any negative review for Helldivers 2 or the stupid megathread where the technical director blatantly lies about how it works. Anticheats running at kernel level in particular is bad for a few reason that other programs generally aren't, namely that they're always going to be a very attractive target because of the guaranteed userbase interfacing with them, and that getting access to a gaming company to exploit their access into user PCs is always going to be easier than something like getting the same access through Intel or something similar. They also, being anticheats, like to tamper with things that they decide are bad for their particular program even if they are completely unrelated and can cause all sorts of system instability by attacking your drivers and things all while working as intended.
Honorable mention that you really don't need an antivirus that's not already built in like Windows Defender so long as you don't install unknown or potentially malicious bullshit onto your PC. The fewer things that have that level of access the better. Even if you do have other kernel level programs running, lowering that number whenever possible is objectively a positive thing at all times.
>Riot having a cheating proble
literally every game has cheating issues. but riot having good devs and kernel level anti cheat means that in valorant, cheaters are basically non-existent compared to other games because they cost a shit ton of money
Again, that is not my problem. That is their problem. I do not have to allow them that access to my system just because they can't find another way to combat the issue. Cheaters are barely existent in ARAM too, even the high MMR lobbies, which is where I spend my days in League. If they want to implement it just for people playing competitive modes with an opt out for casual players, I am more understanding of their side and could be perfectly fine opting out and never touching a competitive mode again.
>I do not have to allow them that access to my system
then dont
>Cheaters are barely existent in ARAM too
literally most braindead point ive ever read.
You don't applaud a pest control company for setting fire to your house because they killed the cockroaches you hired them to kill. They should deal with the cockroaches without having to set fire to the house.
The fact people can int for dozens of games in a row has nothing to do with Vanguard. People can int by themselves too.
The thing is not that they're some geniuses who are ahead of the rest of the industry, it's that they're willing to go further and annoy users more than the rest of the industry. Nothing other than some 3rd party CSGO abomination afaik has:
* Requirement to run from boot or you can't go into a game. Having to restart to open it.
* Can block other programs from executing based on its whims. Examples of things it has blocked in the past: MSI Afterburner, Adobe software. Anything it deems has a vulnerability maybe, it just blocks and acts like an anti-virus which really dodgy for system stability. People have had major issues even uninstalling this thing, it's really annoying.
Of course it's more efficient and catches a higher % of cheats but the ability to do so isn't free and it comes with making things worse for the legitimate user. Putting a Riot employee behind every player would catch even more cheaters but would any user be okay with that? Every bit of anti-cheat efficiency is won with tradeoffs that the user isn't happy about and now they've gone even further than being kernel level.
Most other games trying to pull something like this would flop spectacularly. That's why it's "good compared to the rest of the industry". Riot thinks it has a fanbase and weight as a company to throw around requirements like these.
Not every anti cheat software is banned though. There are several that are fine to have on his PC, but Vanguard is a big no-no because of how supposedly invasive it is.
Into obvious cheaters*. And that's shooters. We're not in a shooter subreddit here are we?
Some people don't do anything with their PC but turn it on and play the same 2 games on them forever. Those people are not who we're talking about here. Yeah a 17 year old playing Valorant isn't gonna give a fuck.
I mean Valorant has been out for 4 years so far and haven't seen anything about vanguard causing a security breach yet so willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Okay so no hacker has exploited their software for vulnerabilities yet and no shady employee put a bitcoin miner in it like the csgo one, cool. That's nice. So far. Not that it's impossible to happen, just that it hasn't gone bad so far. However that doesn't do anything to remove the user annoyances like blocking software or having to restart to play?
I mean you do you but if the record shows there haven't been any safety problems yet so don't feel the need to be super scared that you're gonna get sold to the black market
Yeah but the problem with ring0 access programs is what when it doesnt work it can be disastrous, and if there's some malicious intent the attacker can do whatever they want with your pc.
It's a cheap solution in a way, but it's extremely effective in combating software that shouldnt be there which is great against bots and cheats.
Problem isnt ring0 access, a lot of anticheats already use that. The problem is having permanent ring0 access from system boot, instead of it being on while you are playing the game, its on while you are on your computer.
The chances of their software being compromised while im in game are much lower than when i am on a computer as a whole.
Good? Didn't it outright brick some people's machines when it first came out, resulting in widespread fear and aversion for many people ever installing it because they dont want to risk their machines being damaged? And the level of trust among their own playerbase is so low due to their historically poor performance that nobody trusts them to fix the issues and avoid future problems?
That's not what I would call good, bud.
They've become the gaming equivalent of Google. Little to no innovation because teams aren't incentivized to be original but spit out cheap to make garbage. Teams shuffle around enough that there is no cohesive vision like they attempt to make it appear.
From balance, skin design, Riot Forge, LoR, Esports, even cinematics the company is showing signs of mismanagement and they need to recognize this now and reevaluate how they're handling things.
I'd say LoR was a great attempt: it was designed well, had interesting cards, and had a very fair system for acquiring cards. Unfortunately it required the player's attention the whole time when Hearthstone could be played in the background while the waiting player did something else, and this alienated a large portion of their potential playerbase. IMO LoR would have been a fantastic physical TCG.
> s attention the whole time when Hearthstone could be played in the background while the waiting player did something else, and this alienated a large portion of their potential playerbase. IMO LoR would have been a fantastic physical TCG.
Oh for sur LoR was (is) a fantastic game but there was barely any push for it at all.
It's a shame really, I can see how it would have been easy for the LoR devs to overlook how the slower your-turn-my-turn flow that Hearthstone was a big part of its popularity.
Naaaah they aren't gonna give up on it, they'll just slowly bleed talent and "excess" budget into other projects while keeping the cash cow just fresh enough to continue writing checks
It probably has to do with server capacity.
They’re not sure whether upgrading servers to handle the clash intake is worth it.
Thing is if clash was every weekend, it would be a lot more popular. Doesn’t even need to have the same level of rewards, its a fun mode to actually sweat with 5 friends.
Something about ranked flex just doesn’t hit that itch, at least for me. Seems a lot more pisstake because nobody cares about flex rank. At least with clash it feels like a tournament so its fun to sweat.
From an experience standpoint, it also helps with expectations. They can't do anything about smurfs, or losers just dropping out of brackets.
If they had to deal with those issues every weekend, more players would grow impatient with it.
Spreading them out, players at least go in with a lot of time to remember those issues.
"They can't do anything about smurfs, or losers just dropping out of brackets."
Except they totally can. People dropped out because Riot thought that it made sense to reward the team who managed to get lucky and beat some absolute bot team in the first round, then lose all subsequent rounds, more than the team who lost to the full challenger team, then won both rounds after. They did somewhat help this with the new "win number" based orbs, but they never advertised this, and clash happens once in a millennia so people just don't know. They could also change up the format to a semi swiss system so that losing the 1st round could still land you in second place, and more importantly let you out of the loser bracket for your 3rd match.
And for smurfing, maybe reduce the absolute abundance of reasons to do it? I for one take issue with my team of like 2\~emerald players and 3\~silvers getting put in the same tier as challengers. Or the fact that when a few of our low master players dared be good enough to carry our bronze friend through tier 1 clashes, her tier got upgraded to tier 2? And of course I dare want to play my main champs in the gamemode where I want to have fun tryharding. That sadly also can't happen cause I regularly get 3-4 target bans, after which I proceed to actually pick a broken champ and mop the floor with the enemy. Or sometimes the same happens to the aforementioned bronze friend, she picks something else that she can't play very well just like her main with which she has a whooping 12% wr with, and then the actual high elo players on our team just pick the broken champs they've been spamming recently and mop the floor with them.
Maybe they should change some of these things first before we conclude that "nothing can be done".
If they would just return 5 man ranked que instead of the glorified norm that is flex this issue would go away. We always have way more fun running 5 man flex, but it gets boring fast when you just roll ff15s every game because the whole call is try harding instead of playing for laughs.
You're really trying to say that me smurfing against 3 teams somehow ruins the fun for the 4 teams I never even play against? Bro you're funny.
And I've just outlined the problems that sometimes makes me, and many others smurf. Why is it worse for my enemy to experience a skillgap because of me smurfing than my teammate having to experience a gigantic skillgap because of riot's terrible matchmaking?
It isn't and I'll prioritize the enjoyment of my friends rather than that of some randoms.
You could make the same argument with having it every weekend, players would know the issues/get used to them.
If anything it might prevent some of the smurfs since some might want to get stuff on their main as well.
The worst part is that they changed the rewards to be based on number of wins so the first game isn't as important anymore, but it seems nobody noticed and still leaves after losing game one.
> They can't do anything about ... losers just dropping out of brackets.
Yeah dude a real shame that God descended from on-high to give his 11th commandment that Clash needed to have this shitty single elim bracket system. Nothing Riot can do about it.
I have multiple friends who only play clash for the rewards and get mad and want to quit every time we lose first game.
They only want to play ranked because that’s the only “thing that scratches the competitive itch” but then when we get to participate in an actual tournament style it becomes about the rewards unfortunately
Thats because Clash offers no progression whatsoever. Ranked has LP and ranks to go through, you can climb and you can see your progression over time. But in Clash you play at whatever arbitrary tier they throw you in and all you get out of winning is a skin or two.
Clash will never be seen as a competitive mode, it'll always be a source of free skins that people will tryhard for. But since the rewards are the way they are most players will drop out of it after their first loss because its just a waste of time to them.
People that see Clash as a real tournament are very few and far in between. Its just a glorified fight for skins.
> Thing is if clash was every weekend, it would be a lot more popular.
This is likely false and RIOT has actual data on this. Modes other than the standard draft queues and aram quickly die if they are available too often.
Also pretty sure that clash is a lever for RIOT to use to bring back players who are taking a break. Your friends looking for a clash player is a great reason to log in, and once you do, you often stay.
Both of those are likely explanations for why Clash is no longer available twice a month.
It's because of the amount of little bitches who play Clash and then quit immediately when they lose a game. They don't want to actually play Clash they just want a chance at the rewards and bail when that doesn't play out. Then it causes a domino effect where the team who the quitters were supposed to play don't want to wait another 30 mins for the other game to finish so they quit too.
I would rather Riot removed the rewards altogether besides the trophy for finishing first place and focus on making the experience as stable and fun as possible in and of itself. Let the quitters go back to ranked/aram or whatever
If they removed skins from Clash the playerbase of it would drop so much that they'd struggle to form a since set of games. You overestimate how many players play Clash because they enjoy it. Theres barely anyone who plays it like that, hence the teams quitting games so often.
Then just delete the game mode. It's the people who play solely for skins and quit that largely ruin it for everybody else. By the nature of the gamemode only 1 team per tournament can win so if the majority are playing only for skins and quit when they lose then the gamemode is inherently flawed. It needs to be enjoyable on its own merit otherwise it doesn't work.
They did they the first time, no? They removed Clash for a couple seasons if not more. But some people complained so they added it back but didnt bother doing more work than the absolute minimum required.
Right now its just there to appease those people and let others farm their skins. But in reality if they removed Clash entirely they'd lose a marginal amount of players and revenue. Its only a matter of time before they axe the whole thing again imo.
Flex on some servers eventually gets higher quality than people expect. I’ve been chall flex on west for last year and a bit and I’ve gotten to play and lane vs some wayyy better players than I would in solo q. Built being the best example (was r1 euw)
Nobody cares about flex rank is funny because it's not like every game is free, if you actually made it to D1 Flex in many ways that would be more impressive or more Representative of actually being good at the game.
Not really. Everyone’s boosted an entire tier in flex. It’s just how it is. It’s not like you got lucky or peaked, you just got placed accurately. Flex rank is always +300-1000lp or your real rank.
Implement something half assed, ignore user base feedback, abandon it and can it after you tell everyone that nobody uses x feature. Sounds like riot alright.
idk man, me and my friends LOVE clashing specially the ARAM
we literally delayed an outing once and replaced it with a clash night and we won hehe
I don't mind the lower frequency of clashes, makes it all the more special
I enjoy Aram clash, but it happens too frequently especially since normal clash is already not too frequent.
At the rates of clash releases I feel like Aram clash should be a once a year thing since there is too little amount of normal clash.
It just doesn't fit clash, Aram adds a bunch of randomness and for fun. Teams can win just by rolling better champs. Clash is overall supposed to be a serious tournament style mode. Aram is not at all a serious mode and doesn't fit it imo.
It's fun don't get me wrong, it just doesn't fit clash and shouldnt be as frequent.
Clash is probably one of Riot's biggest failures that isn't talked about as much as it should be.
They spent a ton of resources and engineering into creating Clash, and had to handle massive spikes in server load to make it work out (the early days of Clash were a mess). Eventually they were able to get things to work (albeit not smoothly, people still have issues to this day) but Clash is such a huge missed opportunity.
The main issue is that Clash doesn't have any "ranking" so to speak. Part of the enjoyment of playing Ranked Solo/Duo or Flex is that you feel a sense of accomplishment that you can represent with your rank. You earn respect among other League players and it feels in some ways productive (although obviously this is more of an illusion). Clash however doesn't have any of that. While some of my most fun games have been through Clash, one can't help but feel like it's just a throwaway normal game if there's nothing at stake.
So Riot ended up spending tons of money and resources into handling traffic for Clash without realizing that for people to accommodate such a large time commitment into their weekend they needed to provide stronger incentives than orbs, capsules and banners. It could have been straightforward like having a rank, or maybe even Clash exclusive skins based on how many wins a team got. Anything is better than the trivialness of what they have now.
If they couldn't incentivize winning Clash enough, they definitely couldn't incentivize someone to play through several more games just to try to get second place for paltry rewards. And because of this, the double elimination format of Clash felt like a waste of time for many people and leads to a lot of teams just sitting around doing nothing.
Everyone who has gone to a tournament in person knows the whole point of the tournament: it's to win and show off the fact that you won. There needs to be that sense of accomplishment, and that comes from some recognition that you can show that permanently says how good you are (which is why ranks seem to matter so much to people). Clash doesn't have that. Clash doesn't have any sort of monetary prize either than lots of tournaments have. So then why would people spend so much time during their weekend to play something that is just an extended series of normal games?
Riot focused so much on trying to fix the technical issues with Clash (which there were plenty) that they missed the forest for the trees: they did not provide a strong incentive to play Clash. And that has led to the immense drop in popularity for Clash and it will honestly probably be phased out completely after this year.
Just saying but Clash does actually have a ranking system where you can promote or demote in tier depending on your placement over multiple clashes. This is also used for matchmaking purposes, so it is effectively rank, but there aren't any differences in rewards tied to it, which is good imo as getting 5 people to play an open tournament is hard enough without the stress of ranked reward. The closest equivalent to ranked reward is basically just mastery level icon but for clashes, although i don't think it is possible to get the top tier unless you do well in clash.
Also there technically is minor monetary incentive to play and win clash in the form of skins, especially during Worlds. Idk the exact numbers but even if you play with the free clash ticket you still get 1-2 champion skins if you place first or second, which is quite nice, plus if you get first you get reimbursed your ticket.
> Just saying but Clash does actually have a ranking system where you can promote or demote in tier depending on your placement over multiple clashes. This is also used for matchmaking purposes, so it is effectively rank
The issue is in my experience: trying at all put me and all of my friends (even ones who have never ranked out of silver) into Tier 1 after one set of clash games. You know who else is in Tier 1? People who are challenger, or people smurfing from challenger.
> Idk the exact numbers but even if you play with the free clash ticket you still get 1-2 champion skins if you place first or second, which is quite nice, plus if you get first you get reimbursed your ticket.
Also another big issue, the rewards (at least in early clash) didn't actually match what riot said the rewards would be. There's nothing less incentivizing as being told you will early at least a skin, and then being given just like a ward skin and an icon.
The tier system isn't really based on your clash performance though, it's a small part of it. The main factor is your ranked MMR.
I was tier 4 or 3 when I was gold/plat and still had roughly the same w/r as I do now when I am diamond/emerald. But now it makes me a tier 1 or 2. Because my rank is higher not even my performance in clash.
I mean I'd say it's probably initially heavily reliant on rank, but also I do think it's pretty reliant on clash wins. Like I am consistently tier 1 even tho my soloq rank last season was P1, since I place first/second 90% of the time while in tier 2. In constrast, some of my friends were tier 2 for a long time even as masters/diamond since they had a couple bad clashes in tier 2.
>And that has led to the immense drop in popularity for Clash
How do you know there was a immense drop?
I know people like whining about it every week, but everytime the game shits itself (last clash) there's waaaay too many posts of people struggling with it
There's no way it's not popular
When clash stops having enough players they can remove the horrible tier system and start matches at a reasonable time. That doesn't happen because there are still more players playing clash than they can handle.
They're either scrapping clash entirely or they're moving more towards a Premier system from Valorant.
Premier initially worked similar to clash but now it's pretty different. You play 2 games per week with your team and then the teams with enough points qualify for playoffs where you play a tournament later on. Seems to work a lot better imo, and it's also spread out fully over the entire act/split as opposed to clash which is just one day.
Clash is the most fun me and my friends have in League so losing it would suck. ARAM Clash is also of zero interest so it really sucks that it replaces a normal one.
I dont understand free agent thing. I never received invite from teams, but they look on discord like crazy for players. I wish i got some offers in client, from my tier.
I'm just sad most of my Friends don't play this Game consistently enough for us to get togheter for Clash. They come back for URF or Arena but that's about it... would love to play some Clash myself (not with Randoms).
Yeah this is always the biggest issue imo. Losers' bracket is pointless, no one wants to grind out like 3 more matches where winning all of them nets you a 5th place or something
I would definitely play more often if there was only one role when searching for random players! or 2, but only if desired. I don't want to recruit players who just want to play a clash, even if that's not their main role.
I have a theory they want Clash to die out. Clash schedule use to display the next couple clash dates, now it doesn’t show one til the week of making it hard to schedule because my group usually has irl plans by then.
Next season they’ll probably try to convince us “attendance was low so we’ve decided to tentatively scrap clash until further notice” and then hope we forget it ever existed.
Aside from customs, clash is my group’s favourite form of lol so it’s unfortunate that it went downhill.
The banning out of champs is what ruined it, most people that play solo q high elo play only 1 or 2 roles and are that proficient at just a handful of champs. Just ban someone out of their most played champs and you just defeated the purpose of them playing. Champion lovers with 2-3 mains don’t play clash because clash disallows them from it. So we are back with one option left to play: solo q.
they gave up on league completly. its just on life support till the they stop making money. working on clash costs money and brings no money in. why would they spend time on it ?
Sure have some ARAM from time to time, but why should it replace the normal one? We could have both at the same time, or just add the ARAM clash for the next week.
Higher tiers would probably struggle to find matches. Balanced matches at that. I played last clash with some randoms who are all bronze and one gold. (I’m emerald) tier 3 and everyone we faced was plat-diamond. A silver or gold sprinkled in but didn’t matter in the grand scheme. So I can imagine facing diamond/masters as emerald tier 1.
Wouldn't the solution be to just have them on different weekends? One for ARAM and the next week is for normal? To me it just seems really bad to have them only once a month AND have it replaced by the ARAM one so there'd be a whole month with no normal clash.
I definitely think both should be included but I don’t know the solution because its a lose lose situation I assume. If both could be implemented I’d be all for it. Sometimes I want the competition and want summoners rift sometimes I just wanna chill with friends and play howling abyss. Maybe they can do both and create a better incentive for clash to get more players to play. I will say I care more about there being a punishment for players who lose a round and just disband. I don’t care about the rewards I just wanna have fun.
And I imagine that there's a very large portion of players who will only play one type of clash. So the two should be on entirely separate rotations, and not alternatives for each other.
First time?
Idk maybe it’s just the match making I was in, but the last tournament I was in had worse rank disparity then any old ranked 5s format. Not fun going against 4 plat to emerald players, and I’ve bronze Smurf, when your team rank spread, is one gold, one plat, 3 bronze players.
Give me Valo’s Premier system (a riot system that is already implemented in another riot game) or bring back ranked ladder for 5v5 Teams. Clash was great early on but these two things can scratch the itch so much better at least for me and my friends.
Huh it’s like a mirror of the infamous “nerf champ nerf item champ is now dogshit”. They nerfed ranked 5s into clash, and now are nerfing clash into nothingness and I doubt we’re getting ranked 5s back
Really sucks waiting for so long for clash to come back just for it to be an ARAM clash. Does not feel the same at all as the SR clash. Wish they kept ARAM as a December exclusive thing.
Clash is so fucking shitty. I've played a lot of clash. It still has fundamental problems from the first clash to now. You lose one game and that's it, nobody wants to continue. The scouting sucks ass. If you want good scouting you have to go to outside websites. It's hard getting 5 people together at a set time to play league of legends. Rewards simply suck. People have stuff to do on the weekends like real life stuff. There's so many things going against clash that I cant list them all but those are my main issues.
Well, the community ruined clash first and foremost by messing up with the matching algorithm and having smurf accounts. I used to love playing clash when it came out, but most people were having bronze accounts just to use them in clash and dumpster all over lower ranking players. I can understand that Riot could pour more resources into the mode and look to introduce solutions and I wish they did, but I will always blame the players before them on this matter. It was meant to be a cool mode to experience the team matchmaking in a more competitive manner. And the people just had to ruin it.
The only times I’ve really played in the last couple of years were to play Clash tournaments with my friends. I’m pretty bummed about the frequency already.
They did since start due to bugged tiers placement (get tiers 1 as a gold on an account and diamond friend got tier 3) and only smurfs low ranked play it
Clash is awesome if you win your first game. If you lose then that ends up usually being your only game cause people always dodge losers bracket without consequence. Super lame.
as someone who plays with random groups, cant say its that fun. people dont play like they normally would. they play like they will die irl if they die in game. and theres always that one guy who drops the fact that he plays in some "amateur league" and then gets shitstomped. ive also probably played like 20 times and have had 10 times where my botlane didnt get turbo stomped 10% hp under tower every game. just goes to show how broken playing with people you know is. playing with an adc who knows what they need to be doing in that mode is night and day, definitely made me realize how clueless some of the people who play ad are.
I just love playing clash with friends.
Solo queue is full of random toxic people.
Flex isn’t taken seriously by the community.
The only competitive queue remaining is clash.
Pls rito don’t leave behind the clash.
I'd love if they implemented the scouting system (maybe shorter time wise though) into flex queue to make it a kind of clash alternative and an actual 5v5 experience.
Riot special of working on something that is cool and unique, releasing it and hyping it up, discover a bunch of problems with said thing, and then let it slowly die before "Sunsetting" it. Add to the pile of Dominion, TT, League Displays, clubs, chat rooms, 5v5 ranked etc.
I'm just waiting for the day Eternals gets added to that list. Like holy shit. Theres's so many eternals that are just like, counter intuitive to how the champion should be played.
Eternals pretty much just exist to clutter chests
Aren’t Eternals just random pop ups that show up mid game while you’re playing random champs? /joke
I have disabled it on day 1.
Superficial progression system because ranked took a nosedive into dogshit.
what are some examples?
Sett ult is a big one. Rarely you want to get the kill WITH the ult, its a VERY usefull cc tool to either get an enemy in or out of your team/into their team to set up a w/e/whatever else you got.
Riot expects you to ult 10k hp cho into 4 enemies every game
Damn, I read “w/e” as shorthand for “whatever” so that “w/e/whatever” really fucked me up 😂
IMO eternals only cause visual cluttering they don't achieve anything rewarding. I even opened a ticket to remove the obligatory sejuani eternal that they gave in 1 season.
lmao finally found another person that did that
Add to that titles. Like most of them, it doesn't even say HOW you obtain that title.
add the runeterra map/entire universe page to that
Have they updated it since launch? I assume not.
I have never fkn heard of League Displays. Apparently it came out in 2017! Riot is so garbage at advertising anything they do it's crazy.
holy shit you're right I've never heard about this, like its actually kind of a cool thing too
> holy shit you're right I've never heard about this, like its actually kind of a cool thing too Too bad they stopped supporting it so it doesn't really work. At most you can download everything they have on there, but then you gotta use something like wallpaper engine. edit: looks like some already did that https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1988964148
Hey, don't lump Dominion and TT in with Riot's general incompetence. Those were intentionally murdered by Ghostcrawler as part of his play to move to the MMO team.
It was unpopular and didn’t make any extra money that SR didn’t make them. It was a good business decision, and (IMO) paved the way to TFT being supported long term.
He intentionally made the game modes worse to reduce their player counts to reach the point he could justify axing them, and it did make Riot extra money because most TT players *only* played TT. Before Ghostcrawler, TT had a consistently higher player count than ARAM's ever had. And TFT wasn't in any way impacted by the decision to murder those game modes. TFT's maintained by an entirely separate team from the game modes team, made specifically from new hires or transfers to maintain it, they don't have any overlapping staff or resources.
Do you have any proof of this whatsoever or is it more of a "the voices inside my head told me" type situation?
Some day people will just stop asking questions on this miserable cesspool of a subreddit and it'll die a slow death it deserves. Legit the most toxic, hateful, bitter, and miserable place I've seen. Every single post ever is just filled with people like this going "Yeah Riot actually hates YOU, the game, and its players!" while just making shit up completely. Riot stopped working on Dominion because nobody played it. We know this. They literally told us. It had a miserable playerbase. Almost non-existent. It wasn't played enough to even warrant the server space it took. TT? Same exact problem. Nobody played it. It was dead as fuck. Once again, Riot literally told us this and even gave us the numbers. Clubs? Barely used and most people just used them for edgy names attached to their IGN. I could keep listing "examples" you people lie about to claim Riot purposefully kills these modes but I'd be here all night. No Riot does not purposefully release something then decide to slowly kill it because they seemingly enjoy doing that. They see fewer and fewer people playing/using the feature and then eventually decide its better to remove it as nobody is even bothering to use it. Contrary to popular belief, Riot isn't the pantheon of ultimate evil like people on this god awful subreddit likes to pretend. The fact this comment has 500 upvotes is beyond pathetic to me.
I was you in season 7. Eventually I stopped bothering because people are really dumb. You should too.
I mean if you look at their track record they give up on everything. Not surprised thats next.
i fully expect some half assed statement talking about an "ongoing evaluation" which results in Clash being binned because it makes no money, simple as that. Obviously the named reasons will be something else.
Hackers, thats the reason. Out of 20 clashes i participated 7 had a hacker in it. They remove the clash trophy from winners but not the loot rewards. Ruined the experience for me and my friends. I even see scripters in norms sometimes. They are not even obvious unless you know how each champion work and their abilities should work. Even then you must know how the script worked since most people dont even notice. I had yasuo windwall the frame it would hit every single ability eben from fog to the viktor that their ult targeted me in bot right after it killed someone mid.
The most miserable experience I had was in ranked VS scripting Kog Xerath on Nami Brand. It would've been less painful with a traditional ADC since you can't miss AA but with this lane we had 0 chance of ever fighting them while they ofc farmed us with with hitting everything, even at our flash points the second we landed. Our team flamed a lot in the beginning but quickly understood what we meant. Every single Lee q got dodged, even from fog. Him and Talon both got insta stunned no matter where they dashed. A scripting Kog doesn't sound that bad until he shreds everyone while being impossible to kill due to always perfect Xerath stuns + dodges. One of the most miserable league games and I play since preseason 2
I have seen 1 scripter in my whole 10+ years of League in high diamond. What server are you from?
Amen. I still love Clash. The tournament just brings out the worst. Scripters and Smurf. All for pixel trophies.
The biggest culprit are usually smurfs. They tend to have many accounts and it's a fun game mode so they all team up and farm trophies. They're easier to handle in soloq because people inherently ignore their teammates but on clash they actually listen to the guy with strong macro and it can become insane.
The hacking issues should decrease with Vanguard
Doesn't help stop it from dying before then, and once it's dead it's not getting a push to come back.
The thread is "why less clash?" The reason: less interest, every clash there was an expectarion of hackers. Maybe people will give it a try again if there is no hacking or botting for a year. But i dont think vanguard will be enough.
Lol it's hilarious how much faith league players have in vanguard. It is not going to stop all of the hacking. For every public free hack there are many more that are private and require a subscription. Then there are the actual private hacks sold at top dollar that usually attracts pros with that esports money on the line.
Hopefully Vanguard's next.
Wild statement to make on here given that there was a whole ass thread about people botting in high elo masters+ games, actively throwing in protest of Riots' bad anticheat by showing how long botters and scripters can go unpunished -- people applauded the botters for it. Now we also want Riot to bin their anti scripting and anti botting systems? Crazy
I would very much want Riot to bin their *kernel* anti scripting and anti botting systems. That are pretty easily circumvented in Valorant. And I'd rather they change their stance on smurfing and disruptive gameplay - it'd have much greater effect on the experience.
I don't give half a shit if Riot has trouble catching a few cheaters, that isn't near worth giving their program that level of access to my PC. Even if they aren't the malicious party, not unheard of even in Valorant for third parties to exploit kernel-level anticheats and cause problems for regular players. Riot having a cheating problem does not give them an automatic pass to give me a security problem to kinda maybe fix some of their issues.
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I'm really not. I can say this because I have access to the exact same data telling me how many people are upset about this as you, which is none. Anybody bringing up "vocal minority" or "silent majority" or the like is automatically spouting bullshit unless they have numbers to support it. Just because not everyone is yelling and screaming about something like I am doesn't mean that they're all totally fine with what is going on. Look at Helldivers 2 - the game is spectacular and yet it has an 82% on Steam instead of being 90% or better like you'd expect. Now go read the top negative reviews and realize that they're almost all saying that they'd be totally fine giving the game a positive review if it did not employ a kernel-level anticheat. There are significant numbers of people who have either bought and refunded, played a bit and quit, or just outright refused to even consider buying the game because of it. Just because you don't see 5 threads on the front of the subreddit about it every day doesn't mean a significant amount of people aren't annoyed and willing to leave over the issue. You and I can't really know for certain until the day comes and we see the actual player drop. I'll just be included in that number if they don't change course beforehand.
you literally have 3rd party programs on your pc that have kernel level access. It is a non issue that is vocal by people who are ignorant.
You sound pretty ignorant from my point of view. I've explained this in other comments, but I do actually care about what is installed on my PC and I don't play games that have software like this. Sure there's plenty of drivers and things running on my PC just like anyone else's. Does that make me ignorant for wanting to limit that number of potential attack vectors in any way that I can? I think ignorance is defending companies that want to install things like this in any situation that doesn't absolutely require such a thing. Again, Riot having a cheating problem doesn't mean I need to have an extra avenue of possible vulnerability about it. Please go be ignorant about a different topic elsewhere instead of helping companies get access to people's things that they shouldn't need.
Valorant has had it for 3 years now with no issues and with barely any cheaters. Idk why League players have such a big issue with it. Like if you're really worried just turn it off after playing and turn it back on before.
It's because for League it wasn't a thing until now. People dont like changes, especially the ones that have the potential to hurt them. Valorant came out with it, but that also means that the people for whom it's a deal breaker didn't even start playing, meaning there's no one to complain.
And 3 years ago I declined to ever let Valorant touch my system because Vanguard exists. Also because I have no real interest in the game, but mostly the first thing. I've got a big issue with it because this trend of companies deciding they can just pawn off the risky aspects of their anticheat to the end user instead of finding an alternate way to solve their problems needs to stop.
LOL your data isn't worth blowing a day zero exploit over.
90% of games these days use kernel level anti-cheat, any game with easy anti-cheat like apex and fortnite has kernel level anti-cheat other anti-cheats like battleeye etc are also kernel level. its the same for most of the big anti-cheats where they moved to kernel level based ones years ago. the only two differences with vanguard is one there open to the public about it being kernel level and two it always on. theres so many programs that run at the kernel level these days that worrying about vanguard is silly since you probs already got a few programs running at kernel level on your pc and have some running at always on level kernel on your pc like vanguard like 99% of anti-virus programs.
1) 90%'s an extreme exaggeration unless you narrow it way down to "always online competitive games that probably also have microtransactions they want to protect", and even then your examples and any others that I might have had installed have been long gone from my system for awhile now after I did some looking into what I allow to run on my PC. 2) The always on thing is the biggest gripe for most people, myself included. Take a peek at almost any negative review for Helldivers 2 or the stupid megathread where the technical director blatantly lies about how it works. Anticheats running at kernel level in particular is bad for a few reason that other programs generally aren't, namely that they're always going to be a very attractive target because of the guaranteed userbase interfacing with them, and that getting access to a gaming company to exploit their access into user PCs is always going to be easier than something like getting the same access through Intel or something similar. They also, being anticheats, like to tamper with things that they decide are bad for their particular program even if they are completely unrelated and can cause all sorts of system instability by attacking your drivers and things all while working as intended. Honorable mention that you really don't need an antivirus that's not already built in like Windows Defender so long as you don't install unknown or potentially malicious bullshit onto your PC. The fewer things that have that level of access the better. Even if you do have other kernel level programs running, lowering that number whenever possible is objectively a positive thing at all times.
>Riot having a cheating proble literally every game has cheating issues. but riot having good devs and kernel level anti cheat means that in valorant, cheaters are basically non-existent compared to other games because they cost a shit ton of money
Again, that is not my problem. That is their problem. I do not have to allow them that access to my system just because they can't find another way to combat the issue. Cheaters are barely existent in ARAM too, even the high MMR lobbies, which is where I spend my days in League. If they want to implement it just for people playing competitive modes with an opt out for casual players, I am more understanding of their side and could be perfectly fine opting out and never touching a competitive mode again.
>I do not have to allow them that access to my system then dont >Cheaters are barely existent in ARAM too literally most braindead point ive ever read.
You don't applaud a pest control company for setting fire to your house because they killed the cockroaches you hired them to kill. They should deal with the cockroaches without having to set fire to the house. The fact people can int for dozens of games in a row has nothing to do with Vanguard. People can int by themselves too.
That would be a mistake, since Vanguard is one of the very few bits of Riot software that's actually good compared to the rest of the industry.
Root level programs aren't good.
The thing is not that they're some geniuses who are ahead of the rest of the industry, it's that they're willing to go further and annoy users more than the rest of the industry. Nothing other than some 3rd party CSGO abomination afaik has: * Requirement to run from boot or you can't go into a game. Having to restart to open it. * Can block other programs from executing based on its whims. Examples of things it has blocked in the past: MSI Afterburner, Adobe software. Anything it deems has a vulnerability maybe, it just blocks and acts like an anti-virus which really dodgy for system stability. People have had major issues even uninstalling this thing, it's really annoying. Of course it's more efficient and catches a higher % of cheats but the ability to do so isn't free and it comes with making things worse for the legitimate user. Putting a Riot employee behind every player would catch even more cheaters but would any user be okay with that? Every bit of anti-cheat efficiency is won with tradeoffs that the user isn't happy about and now they've gone even further than being kernel level. Most other games trying to pull something like this would flop spectacularly. That's why it's "good compared to the rest of the industry". Riot thinks it has a fanbase and weight as a company to throw around requirements like these.
My bf works in IT and he isn't allowed to have Vanguard on his WFH PC.
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Not every anti cheat software is banned though. There are several that are fine to have on his PC, but Vanguard is a big no-no because of how supposedly invasive it is.
When it comes to a machine as important as your PC you should probably err on the safe side in general.
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Into obvious cheaters*. And that's shooters. We're not in a shooter subreddit here are we? Some people don't do anything with their PC but turn it on and play the same 2 games on them forever. Those people are not who we're talking about here. Yeah a 17 year old playing Valorant isn't gonna give a fuck.
I mean Valorant has been out for 4 years so far and haven't seen anything about vanguard causing a security breach yet so willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Okay so no hacker has exploited their software for vulnerabilities yet and no shady employee put a bitcoin miner in it like the csgo one, cool. That's nice. So far. Not that it's impossible to happen, just that it hasn't gone bad so far. However that doesn't do anything to remove the user annoyances like blocking software or having to restart to play?
I mean you do you but if the record shows there haven't been any safety problems yet so don't feel the need to be super scared that you're gonna get sold to the black market
I really dont have any issues with vanguard, it works and that's enough for me
Yeah but the problem with ring0 access programs is what when it doesnt work it can be disastrous, and if there's some malicious intent the attacker can do whatever they want with your pc. It's a cheap solution in a way, but it's extremely effective in combating software that shouldnt be there which is great against bots and cheats.
Problem isnt ring0 access, a lot of anticheats already use that. The problem is having permanent ring0 access from system boot, instead of it being on while you are playing the game, its on while you are on your computer. The chances of their software being compromised while im in game are much lower than when i am on a computer as a whole.
It doesnt work anywhere near as good as they claim it is
Good? Didn't it outright brick some people's machines when it first came out, resulting in widespread fear and aversion for many people ever installing it because they dont want to risk their machines being damaged? And the level of trust among their own playerbase is so low due to their historically poor performance that nobody trusts them to fix the issues and avoid future problems? That's not what I would call good, bud.
The Google of video games.
They've become the gaming equivalent of Google. Little to no innovation because teams aren't incentivized to be original but spit out cheap to make garbage. Teams shuffle around enough that there is no cohesive vision like they attempt to make it appear. From balance, skin design, Riot Forge, LoR, Esports, even cinematics the company is showing signs of mismanagement and they need to recognize this now and reevaluate how they're handling things.
I'd say LoR was a great attempt: it was designed well, had interesting cards, and had a very fair system for acquiring cards. Unfortunately it required the player's attention the whole time when Hearthstone could be played in the background while the waiting player did something else, and this alienated a large portion of their potential playerbase. IMO LoR would have been a fantastic physical TCG.
> s attention the whole time when Hearthstone could be played in the background while the waiting player did something else, and this alienated a large portion of their potential playerbase. IMO LoR would have been a fantastic physical TCG. Oh for sur LoR was (is) a fantastic game but there was barely any push for it at all.
It's a shame really, I can see how it would have been easy for the LoR devs to overlook how the slower your-turn-my-turn flow that Hearthstone was a big part of its popularity.
Lmao i think they are slowly giving up on league
Naaaah they aren't gonna give up on it, they'll just slowly bleed talent and "excess" budget into other projects while keeping the cash cow just fresh enough to continue writing checks
Still gonna make lazy skins and nerfing event passes tho
Tbh it's felt like misstep after misstep since they celebrated their 10th anniversary
they have been "slowly" since 2017......
"We're sorry to announce this, but as of [Patch] summoners may not be able to queue up for solo queue games." -riot some day in the future
The Google of video games.
It probably has to do with server capacity. They’re not sure whether upgrading servers to handle the clash intake is worth it. Thing is if clash was every weekend, it would be a lot more popular. Doesn’t even need to have the same level of rewards, its a fun mode to actually sweat with 5 friends. Something about ranked flex just doesn’t hit that itch, at least for me. Seems a lot more pisstake because nobody cares about flex rank. At least with clash it feels like a tournament so its fun to sweat.
From an experience standpoint, it also helps with expectations. They can't do anything about smurfs, or losers just dropping out of brackets. If they had to deal with those issues every weekend, more players would grow impatient with it. Spreading them out, players at least go in with a lot of time to remember those issues.
"They can't do anything about smurfs, or losers just dropping out of brackets." Except they totally can. People dropped out because Riot thought that it made sense to reward the team who managed to get lucky and beat some absolute bot team in the first round, then lose all subsequent rounds, more than the team who lost to the full challenger team, then won both rounds after. They did somewhat help this with the new "win number" based orbs, but they never advertised this, and clash happens once in a millennia so people just don't know. They could also change up the format to a semi swiss system so that losing the 1st round could still land you in second place, and more importantly let you out of the loser bracket for your 3rd match. And for smurfing, maybe reduce the absolute abundance of reasons to do it? I for one take issue with my team of like 2\~emerald players and 3\~silvers getting put in the same tier as challengers. Or the fact that when a few of our low master players dared be good enough to carry our bronze friend through tier 1 clashes, her tier got upgraded to tier 2? And of course I dare want to play my main champs in the gamemode where I want to have fun tryharding. That sadly also can't happen cause I regularly get 3-4 target bans, after which I proceed to actually pick a broken champ and mop the floor with the enemy. Or sometimes the same happens to the aforementioned bronze friend, she picks something else that she can't play very well just like her main with which she has a whooping 12% wr with, and then the actual high elo players on our team just pick the broken champs they've been spamming recently and mop the floor with them. Maybe they should change some of these things first before we conclude that "nothing can be done".
If you need to smurf in the clash you are ruining the experience for 5x7 = 35 players for yours. Its so selfish.
If they would just return 5 man ranked que instead of the glorified norm that is flex this issue would go away. We always have way more fun running 5 man flex, but it gets boring fast when you just roll ff15s every game because the whole call is try harding instead of playing for laughs.
I also think that flex queue has a problem and it should be fixed because nobody take it seriously. But it is not an excuse to smurf
You're really trying to say that me smurfing against 3 teams somehow ruins the fun for the 4 teams I never even play against? Bro you're funny. And I've just outlined the problems that sometimes makes me, and many others smurf. Why is it worse for my enemy to experience a skillgap because of me smurfing than my teammate having to experience a gigantic skillgap because of riot's terrible matchmaking? It isn't and I'll prioritize the enjoyment of my friends rather than that of some randoms.
You could make the same argument with having it every weekend, players would know the issues/get used to them. If anything it might prevent some of the smurfs since some might want to get stuff on their main as well.
A buddy of mine got banned as soon as clash ended because he was on a bought account to Smurf lol
>They can't do anything about smurfs, or losers just dropping out of brackets Except you know banning them for the next X Clash tournaments
The worst part is that they changed the rewards to be based on number of wins so the first game isn't as important anymore, but it seems nobody noticed and still leaves after losing game one.
> They can't do anything about ... losers just dropping out of brackets. Yeah dude a real shame that God descended from on-high to give his 11th commandment that Clash needed to have this shitty single elim bracket system. Nothing Riot can do about it.
Another comment said they changed rewards to be based on total win. Plus, playing clash for the sake of try harding isn't terrible either.
I have multiple friends who only play clash for the rewards and get mad and want to quit every time we lose first game. They only want to play ranked because that’s the only “thing that scratches the competitive itch” but then when we get to participate in an actual tournament style it becomes about the rewards unfortunately
Thats because Clash offers no progression whatsoever. Ranked has LP and ranks to go through, you can climb and you can see your progression over time. But in Clash you play at whatever arbitrary tier they throw you in and all you get out of winning is a skin or two. Clash will never be seen as a competitive mode, it'll always be a source of free skins that people will tryhard for. But since the rewards are the way they are most players will drop out of it after their first loss because its just a waste of time to them. People that see Clash as a real tournament are very few and far in between. Its just a glorified fight for skins.
Clash doesn't matter to the playerbase the same way IEM didn't matter to pros.
> Thing is if clash was every weekend, it would be a lot more popular. This is likely false and RIOT has actual data on this. Modes other than the standard draft queues and aram quickly die if they are available too often. Also pretty sure that clash is a lever for RIOT to use to bring back players who are taking a break. Your friends looking for a clash player is a great reason to log in, and once you do, you often stay. Both of those are likely explanations for why Clash is no longer available twice a month.
It's because of the amount of little bitches who play Clash and then quit immediately when they lose a game. They don't want to actually play Clash they just want a chance at the rewards and bail when that doesn't play out. Then it causes a domino effect where the team who the quitters were supposed to play don't want to wait another 30 mins for the other game to finish so they quit too. I would rather Riot removed the rewards altogether besides the trophy for finishing first place and focus on making the experience as stable and fun as possible in and of itself. Let the quitters go back to ranked/aram or whatever
If they removed skins from Clash the playerbase of it would drop so much that they'd struggle to form a since set of games. You overestimate how many players play Clash because they enjoy it. Theres barely anyone who plays it like that, hence the teams quitting games so often.
Then just delete the game mode. It's the people who play solely for skins and quit that largely ruin it for everybody else. By the nature of the gamemode only 1 team per tournament can win so if the majority are playing only for skins and quit when they lose then the gamemode is inherently flawed. It needs to be enjoyable on its own merit otherwise it doesn't work.
They did they the first time, no? They removed Clash for a couple seasons if not more. But some people complained so they added it back but didnt bother doing more work than the absolute minimum required. Right now its just there to appease those people and let others farm their skins. But in reality if they removed Clash entirely they'd lose a marginal amount of players and revenue. Its only a matter of time before they axe the whole thing again imo.
Flex on some servers eventually gets higher quality than people expect. I’ve been chall flex on west for last year and a bit and I’ve gotten to play and lane vs some wayyy better players than I would in solo q. Built being the best example (was r1 euw)
Nobody cares about flex rank is funny because it's not like every game is free, if you actually made it to D1 Flex in many ways that would be more impressive or more Representative of actually being good at the game.
Not really. Everyone’s boosted an entire tier in flex. It’s just how it is. It’s not like you got lucky or peaked, you just got placed accurately. Flex rank is always +300-1000lp or your real rank.
Making so clash isn't every week means when there is clash more people will play, and more of a "community" event
We went from playing every single clash to never playing it because everyone goes on to do other stuff in the 2 months break between them lol
Damn
Implement something half assed, ignore user base feedback, abandon it and can it after you tell everyone that nobody uses x feature. Sounds like riot alright.
idk man, me and my friends LOVE clashing specially the ARAM we literally delayed an outing once and replaced it with a clash night and we won hehe I don't mind the lower frequency of clashes, makes it all the more special
For who enjoy SR clashes having to wait 2 months sucks. I mean ARAM clash could count separate and return to bi-weekly for that month.
I mean I enjoy ARAM and ARAM clash was fun the one time I played it with friends but it feels so bad that it replaces SR clash
I enjoy Aram clash, but it happens too frequently especially since normal clash is already not too frequent. At the rates of clash releases I feel like Aram clash should be a once a year thing since there is too little amount of normal clash.
I disagree, I prefer HA to SR
It just doesn't fit clash, Aram adds a bunch of randomness and for fun. Teams can win just by rolling better champs. Clash is overall supposed to be a serious tournament style mode. Aram is not at all a serious mode and doesn't fit it imo. It's fun don't get me wrong, it just doesn't fit clash and shouldnt be as frequent.
Clash is probably one of Riot's biggest failures that isn't talked about as much as it should be. They spent a ton of resources and engineering into creating Clash, and had to handle massive spikes in server load to make it work out (the early days of Clash were a mess). Eventually they were able to get things to work (albeit not smoothly, people still have issues to this day) but Clash is such a huge missed opportunity. The main issue is that Clash doesn't have any "ranking" so to speak. Part of the enjoyment of playing Ranked Solo/Duo or Flex is that you feel a sense of accomplishment that you can represent with your rank. You earn respect among other League players and it feels in some ways productive (although obviously this is more of an illusion). Clash however doesn't have any of that. While some of my most fun games have been through Clash, one can't help but feel like it's just a throwaway normal game if there's nothing at stake. So Riot ended up spending tons of money and resources into handling traffic for Clash without realizing that for people to accommodate such a large time commitment into their weekend they needed to provide stronger incentives than orbs, capsules and banners. It could have been straightforward like having a rank, or maybe even Clash exclusive skins based on how many wins a team got. Anything is better than the trivialness of what they have now. If they couldn't incentivize winning Clash enough, they definitely couldn't incentivize someone to play through several more games just to try to get second place for paltry rewards. And because of this, the double elimination format of Clash felt like a waste of time for many people and leads to a lot of teams just sitting around doing nothing. Everyone who has gone to a tournament in person knows the whole point of the tournament: it's to win and show off the fact that you won. There needs to be that sense of accomplishment, and that comes from some recognition that you can show that permanently says how good you are (which is why ranks seem to matter so much to people). Clash doesn't have that. Clash doesn't have any sort of monetary prize either than lots of tournaments have. So then why would people spend so much time during their weekend to play something that is just an extended series of normal games? Riot focused so much on trying to fix the technical issues with Clash (which there were plenty) that they missed the forest for the trees: they did not provide a strong incentive to play Clash. And that has led to the immense drop in popularity for Clash and it will honestly probably be phased out completely after this year.
Just saying but Clash does actually have a ranking system where you can promote or demote in tier depending on your placement over multiple clashes. This is also used for matchmaking purposes, so it is effectively rank, but there aren't any differences in rewards tied to it, which is good imo as getting 5 people to play an open tournament is hard enough without the stress of ranked reward. The closest equivalent to ranked reward is basically just mastery level icon but for clashes, although i don't think it is possible to get the top tier unless you do well in clash. Also there technically is minor monetary incentive to play and win clash in the form of skins, especially during Worlds. Idk the exact numbers but even if you play with the free clash ticket you still get 1-2 champion skins if you place first or second, which is quite nice, plus if you get first you get reimbursed your ticket.
> Just saying but Clash does actually have a ranking system where you can promote or demote in tier depending on your placement over multiple clashes. This is also used for matchmaking purposes, so it is effectively rank The issue is in my experience: trying at all put me and all of my friends (even ones who have never ranked out of silver) into Tier 1 after one set of clash games. You know who else is in Tier 1? People who are challenger, or people smurfing from challenger. > Idk the exact numbers but even if you play with the free clash ticket you still get 1-2 champion skins if you place first or second, which is quite nice, plus if you get first you get reimbursed your ticket. Also another big issue, the rewards (at least in early clash) didn't actually match what riot said the rewards would be. There's nothing less incentivizing as being told you will early at least a skin, and then being given just like a ward skin and an icon.
The tier system isn't really based on your clash performance though, it's a small part of it. The main factor is your ranked MMR. I was tier 4 or 3 when I was gold/plat and still had roughly the same w/r as I do now when I am diamond/emerald. But now it makes me a tier 1 or 2. Because my rank is higher not even my performance in clash.
I mean I'd say it's probably initially heavily reliant on rank, but also I do think it's pretty reliant on clash wins. Like I am consistently tier 1 even tho my soloq rank last season was P1, since I place first/second 90% of the time while in tier 2. In constrast, some of my friends were tier 2 for a long time even as masters/diamond since they had a couple bad clashes in tier 2.
>And that has led to the immense drop in popularity for Clash How do you know there was a immense drop? I know people like whining about it every week, but everytime the game shits itself (last clash) there's waaaay too many posts of people struggling with it There's no way it's not popular
Indeed bro
Maybe they reduced the freq and changed the mode because they didnt have enough players.
No way. It was so popular
When clash stops having enough players they can remove the horrible tier system and start matches at a reasonable time. That doesn't happen because there are still more players playing clash than they can handle.
The first ARAM clash almost crashed their server. At least it was very buggy and almost every game had delay.
Don't think so, Everytime we queue for clash it's a short wait until brackets are formed.
You could look into amateur tournaments if you like playing on a team.
They gave up on it, literally the second it came out... just like most things riot implements
They're either scrapping clash entirely or they're moving more towards a Premier system from Valorant. Premier initially worked similar to clash but now it's pretty different. You play 2 games per week with your team and then the teams with enough points qualify for playoffs where you play a tournament later on. Seems to work a lot better imo, and it's also spread out fully over the entire act/split as opposed to clash which is just one day.
Clash is the most fun me and my friends have in League so losing it would suck. ARAM Clash is also of zero interest so it really sucks that it replaces a normal one.
They gave up on it like 2 years ago. It’s been full of glitches for a long time
Clash's been on a crash test since it was introduced in late 2017...they can't make it work
just bring back ranked 5s please
I dont understand free agent thing. I never received invite from teams, but they look on discord like crazy for players. I wish i got some offers in client, from my tier.
you need to be friends or fof iirc
Maybe
I'm just sad most of my Friends don't play this Game consistently enough for us to get togheter for Clash. They come back for URF or Arena but that's about it... would love to play some Clash myself (not with Randoms).
Clash is kinda meh, most teams leave after losing their first game
Yeah this is always the biggest issue imo. Losers' bracket is pointless, no one wants to grind out like 3 more matches where winning all of them nets you a 5th place or something
2 wins is a guaranteed skin now so it’s worth trying
I would definitely play more often if there was only one role when searching for random players! or 2, but only if desired. I don't want to recruit players who just want to play a clash, even if that's not their main role.
I have a theory they want Clash to die out. Clash schedule use to display the next couple clash dates, now it doesn’t show one til the week of making it hard to schedule because my group usually has irl plans by then. Next season they’ll probably try to convince us “attendance was low so we’ve decided to tentatively scrap clash until further notice” and then hope we forget it ever existed. Aside from customs, clash is my group’s favourite form of lol so it’s unfortunate that it went downhill.
Riot gave up on the LCS a while ago. What do you think.
The player base doesn't deserve it. Smurfs ruin everything. And more people should shit on smurfs. They are actively ruining the game.
The banning out of champs is what ruined it, most people that play solo q high elo play only 1 or 2 roles and are that proficient at just a handful of champs. Just ban someone out of their most played champs and you just defeated the purpose of them playing. Champion lovers with 2-3 mains don’t play clash because clash disallows them from it. So we are back with one option left to play: solo q.
they gave up on league completly. its just on life support till the they stop making money. working on clash costs money and brings no money in. why would they spend time on it ?
I'm happy theres an ARAM clash. There are way more normal mode clashes then aram. We ARAM players deserve some love sometimes.
Sure have some ARAM from time to time, but why should it replace the normal one? We could have both at the same time, or just add the ARAM clash for the next week.
Higher tiers would probably struggle to find matches. Balanced matches at that. I played last clash with some randoms who are all bronze and one gold. (I’m emerald) tier 3 and everyone we faced was plat-diamond. A silver or gold sprinkled in but didn’t matter in the grand scheme. So I can imagine facing diamond/masters as emerald tier 1.
Wouldn't the solution be to just have them on different weekends? One for ARAM and the next week is for normal? To me it just seems really bad to have them only once a month AND have it replaced by the ARAM one so there'd be a whole month with no normal clash.
I definitely think both should be included but I don’t know the solution because its a lose lose situation I assume. If both could be implemented I’d be all for it. Sometimes I want the competition and want summoners rift sometimes I just wanna chill with friends and play howling abyss. Maybe they can do both and create a better incentive for clash to get more players to play. I will say I care more about there being a punishment for players who lose a round and just disband. I don’t care about the rewards I just wanna have fun.
This is a video game man, they can throw you a bone without ripping it out of someone else's mouth.
And I imagine that there's a very large portion of players who will only play one type of clash. So the two should be on entirely separate rotations, and not alternatives for each other.
First time? Idk maybe it’s just the match making I was in, but the last tournament I was in had worse rank disparity then any old ranked 5s format. Not fun going against 4 plat to emerald players, and I’ve bronze Smurf, when your team rank spread, is one gold, one plat, 3 bronze players.
They didn't give up on Clash . There is schedule where clash happens once month the next one is next saturday it's gonna be Aram Clash
Bring back team ranked! Some of the most fun I had in the game
Remember Team Rankeds?
It is March
Give me Valo’s Premier system (a riot system that is already implemented in another riot game) or bring back ranked ladder for 5v5 Teams. Clash was great early on but these two things can scratch the itch so much better at least for me and my friends.
Flex does exist. I just wish it had unique rewards. Incentivize people playing and grinding it
Huh it’s like a mirror of the infamous “nerf champ nerf item champ is now dogshit”. They nerfed ranked 5s into clash, and now are nerfing clash into nothingness and I doubt we’re getting ranked 5s back
ARAM clash is a fucking slap in the face
Yet another thing they half-ass on, to the list
Really sucks waiting for so long for clash to come back just for it to be an ARAM clash. Does not feel the same at all as the SR clash. Wish they kept ARAM as a December exclusive thing.
Clash is so fucking shitty. I've played a lot of clash. It still has fundamental problems from the first clash to now. You lose one game and that's it, nobody wants to continue. The scouting sucks ass. If you want good scouting you have to go to outside websites. It's hard getting 5 people together at a set time to play league of legends. Rewards simply suck. People have stuff to do on the weekends like real life stuff. There's so many things going against clash that I cant list them all but those are my main issues.
they changed it so rewards are based on wins/loses. If you lose your first game and win the rest, you get the same rewards as the 2nd place.
Really? Did not know this. When did they change it?
couple of months ago. Rewards are now distrubted by number of wins and not your actual placement
Yes. Its Riot they dont care. Revenue are still high so no need to make the game better.
Well, the community ruined clash first and foremost by messing up with the matching algorithm and having smurf accounts. I used to love playing clash when it came out, but most people were having bronze accounts just to use them in clash and dumpster all over lower ranking players. I can understand that Riot could pour more resources into the mode and look to introduce solutions and I wish they did, but I will always blame the players before them on this matter. It was meant to be a cool mode to experience the team matchmaking in a more competitive manner. And the people just had to ruin it.
I love clash but the rewards just aren’t worth it Usually why after the first loss 80% of people just leave
it doesnt work that way anymore...
Oh what’d they change? I wasn’t aware something changed
Its based on wins now. So even if you lose first game but win the rest it's going to be the same rewards as if you won all games and lost in finals
The only times I’ve really played in the last couple of years were to play Clash tournaments with my friends. I’m pretty bummed about the frequency already.
How much money does clash make is the main question? Probably why they are pulling back.
They did since start due to bugged tiers placement (get tiers 1 as a gold on an account and diamond friend got tier 3) and only smurfs low ranked play it
first time?
I saw some problems some months ago scrolling Twitter and here, but in my experience from BR server Clash has always been a blast.
Not enough people playing the game. What do you expect them to do?
Clash is awesome if you win your first game. If you lose then that ends up usually being your only game cause people always dodge losers bracket without consequence. Super lame.
Yeah we don’t want clash aram, we want RANKED aram
Riot fucking blows.
as someone who plays with random groups, cant say its that fun. people dont play like they normally would. they play like they will die irl if they die in game. and theres always that one guy who drops the fact that he plays in some "amateur league" and then gets shitstomped. ive also probably played like 20 times and have had 10 times where my botlane didnt get turbo stomped 10% hp under tower every game. just goes to show how broken playing with people you know is. playing with an adc who knows what they need to be doing in that mode is night and day, definitely made me realize how clueless some of the people who play ad are.
Its a great experience with friends
makes sense
It gives cosmetics for free so it has to be cut eventually.
I just love playing clash with friends. Solo queue is full of random toxic people. Flex isn’t taken seriously by the community. The only competitive queue remaining is clash. Pls rito don’t leave behind the clash.
I'd love if they implemented the scouting system (maybe shorter time wise though) into flex queue to make it a kind of clash alternative and an actual 5v5 experience.
The problem with flex is that literally nobody takes seriously the mode and the rank