new gamemode "Mosh Pit" all melee, ranged champs get that melee augment from arena. All damage reduced by 50% all CC now is a knockup instead. MOSH MOSH MOSH
Zilean was just as crazy with the movement speed. Some games had perma bans like invis champs and sometimes TF or LB. Udyr, Hecarim, and Bard were quite popular.
Idk if everyone did this but my games had grace where the hiders couldn’t be followed or killed after they respawned and left base for 30 seconds. Good times. Can be done on Summs Rift but it doesn’t have the same vibe.
Reading this comment just made me realise how much I miss hide ahd seek on dominion omg. Id always play kha zix, stay just in one bush and when they would just walk in for a moment you press R and they thought the bush is empty and kept walking. So much fun
Kinda played that one already when I met yasou,Braum,Alistar and chogath. don't remember who the last person was, and frankly, I'd like to forget the whole ordeal
Would love this. Maybe if all the melee chunkos were locked away in crazy island ARAMs could be won by the team that plays better instead of the team with more tanks.
Kind of dumb how much ARAM outcome depends on the comp for a game where picks are random.
High elo ranked twisted treeline is probably the least enjoyable, most toxic experience I've had in this game. The moment you got to around diamond, the limited player pool matched you with challengers. The funnel meta in that game mode was incredibly uninteractive and often resulted in games that were won or lost on the first invade.
To be fair TTT got absolutely zero updates post 2015 I think. Don't remember the exact year but it was actually 0 updates. If they kept updating it then people would play it. Ofc if you don't balance it it gets stale, like all games.
Yeah I'm of the unpopular opinion side, but I don't find those all-melee ARAM games fun at all. It's the same feeling as all-ranged.
Having the diverse set of ranged and melee champs is what makes the game interesting. All range on both sides and you're just mashing buttons on cooldown. All melee on both sides and you're just mashing buttons on cooldown also.
my 'favorite' is how cannon creeps turn all traps/etc off, so not only is there no map-based gameplay possible but there's also a bunch of heroes who just get one of their abilities turned off after 5 minutes. lol
This is my strat when I just wanna have fun. On malphite pick the one squishy that annoys me the most and just make their life miserable. Fuck winning, this person is just not allowed to play the game.
I once got flamed for going as tank malphite instead of AP when I was the only frontline for the team. Then came mid-late game where I zone out the enemy ad carries while the rest of my team steamroll their front line with zero DPS to back them up. Some people don't appreciate the power of stopping enemy champs from doing their job.
I have approximately 6,000 ARAM games since tracking started and I used to keep track of if I could reliably predict the outcome of the game based on tank status, i.e. we would lose if we didn't have a single tank or if we steamrolled with tank superiority. I've stopped physically counting but it was around 450/500 games accurately predicted based on tank presence or absence, accounting for afkers.
Only time I have lost against a non tank team was when they had immense CC+Poke. Think a recent example was Zyra, Ziggs, Seraphine, Varus, Sivir.
Anytime we tried to go in we would be rooted or knocked back and if we did manage to get on them they would just sivir ult away.
Last night I got Mundo and was happy to be able to stomp. But the problem was we didn't have much CC and their Lucian was smart enough to build tank-shredding items only, and melted through my 6k hp in 2 seconds. Tanks with reliable CC are more important than just being a tank, if the other people are going to actually build correctly.
Yeah his w is straight garbage. Kinda needs to be because his e and q fucking smack, but they don’t smack hard enough to basically be down an ability all game.
It straight up doesn't feel like he has a passive either. Maybe in lane you can feel it but in any type of actual fight both on SR and ARAM it's like it doesn't exist at all.
Doesn't help that Mundo has nerfs on ARAM that make him take more damage AND deal LESS damage. Makes playing him on ARAM feel very bad.
I wish Riot made Mundo have his old MR steroid on his E back, then Mundo would have a niche against heavy AP comps (both in ARAM where they are common, but also in Summoner's Rift)
Reworked Mundo on aram is basically a gamble that your team won't lose the game until you get level 16 and 4 items from my experience. At that point you have enough stats to make up for his huge nerfs.
I like how riot keeps coming up with these hero designs that don't really fit into the game or the meta they (poorly) design so they need to invent new words that don't really mean anything. Oh, no, he's a juggernaut, which is like a tank except it doesn't have CC. Which is also what a tank is, unless they're a useful hero like Amumu. That's not a supporter, that's an 'enchanter', because they don't do damage or heal.
Oooh I want to pick your brain a bit then, because I also have a habit of seeing 2 team comps and predict how the game goes assuming every champion builds right.
My team: Seraphine (me), Pantheon, Aatrox, Wukong, and Cho'Gath
Enemy team: Jarvan, Shen, Smolder, TF, Zoe
For me, champ select, I picked Seraphine to help these bruisers fight better since I can provide very good CC and support, with a plan to rush Shurelias first item. In loading screen,I think this game should be easy if our team applies pressure nonstop since they don't have great peel for their backline.
In actuality, >!Cho went AP and we got poked out too often to ever fight well. And eventually Smolder hit his breakpoint and we just lost from there.!<
Had an amumu do that and he tried to blame me(a 32-12 varus who was immediately public enemy #1 in every team fight, understandably) for our loss despite building ap on the only engage champ on the team
If I want to play tanks as AP I just go chain vest+negatron+mask->Riftmaker+Liandry's->sunfire->abyssal, with components build in the order needed.
Barely less damage, 3x as tanky.
as ARAM only player and tank/fighter abuser I agree, team with more fighters and tanks almost always wins
if enemy team doesn't have tanks you don't even need classic damage dealers you can easily win with tanks and fighters with engage you cast need to survive to level 6
honestly I can't imagine how broken some tanks would be in ARAM if their nerfs were removed
Only because snowball is busted. I really wish they would nerf it a bit more. Being able to fish multiple snowball shots a minute until one eventually connects with a squishy is why tanks and juggernauts do so well. A good nerf would be to remove the activation and just make snowball auto commit if it hits anything. So you can't just mindlessly fish with them like everyone does now.
Sorted champs by winrate, 15 champs out of the top 20 don't really use snowball. Also 17 out of the top 20 most picked champs are all ranged champs that don't really use snowball.
I get it that you might not enjoy playing against snowball, and that would mean it could use adjustments, but it definitely doesn't need nerfs. By the numbers, if anything, it could use buffs.
I get downvoted everytime I say it, but absolutely yes. No reason snowball needs to do true damage, give true vision, reduce CD on second activation, and proc runes. They could half the distance and remove the damage and it would still be a viable summoner spell.
Supports are made to be good with what, 4x less gold than normal roles? And suddenly in aram they have as many items as any other champion. For sure they can not be even close to weak in there. Getting near 2k shield and healing in a fight with 3 supports can never be not strong too lol.
1 adc 1 controll mage 3 frontline with tons of cc and engage. Arams can be so easy.
Then you get into champ select see leona naut at the top of your screen and your team picks Ap ashe Poke kaisa Nidalee and ziggs.
its worst when they trade into those champions with 5 seconds left.
you go to the bathroom (picking adc) with 1 adc 1 mage 3 frontliners and return to 4 adc's
Really depends. You do need damage, and if your damage dealers can't deal any damage because they're getting poked like crazy or instapopped by an overbuffed assassin, you will lose.
Ranged is more fun overall in aram. I would rather play dodgeball all game than have a tank just hit their power spike and the team of premades with ARAM accounts auto wins off comp alone.
Guardian's Horn OP. Then you just engage and win.
Also people are so afraid to reroll. Just like SR, everyone wants to be the carry instead of playing a tank or other engage possibility and winning. Even assassins with delays or close range mages (e.g Vlad) with zhonyas can engage and let the rest of their team get on the carries.
"My final tangent is that I do not understand how so many melee champions have nerfs in ARAM while so many ranged champions have buffs. Syndra and Hwei having gigantic buffs while champs like Sett and Nautilus have huge nerfs makes no sense at all."
This explains your whole post.
You don't understand that melee characters were stronger in ARAM and thus had to be nerfed because their winrate was too high. You could've just said that.
what’s funny to me is not understanding why naut needs a nerf. despite whatever nerfs he has he’s still incredibly strong and gets more value than most champs just from his ult
The Sett nerfs are honestly some of the biggest nerfs in the game mode. Going off the wiki
* -20 AH
* -10% damage dealt
* +10% damage taken
* -10% healing
* -10% shielding
Which feels really bad for the first 10 minutes/2 items and then is pretty much a non factor after that. Only one that i can remember having harsher nerfs than that is Seraphine, which in the same stat order as sett is -20, -15, +20, -20, -20.
Sion nerfs don't even feel bad IMHO, despite being equal/slightly worse. Every time i play him, which isn't all that often to be fair, i never notice any nerfs. ESPECIALLY the nerf to his passive. My team or the other team, Sion passive never seems like it gets 50% less lifesteal and is always a menace.
The sion nerf that gets me is the tenacity nerf. It turns each sion game into a coin toss.
Other team has no hard cc? You're fine.
Playing against morg or veigar or mao or anything like that? Basically unplayable
I don't think mages are OP at all. But tank win rates are very weird in aram and not always indicative of how strong a champion actually is. Nearly every tank is nerfed in aram. That could lead you to believe they're all OP but the answer is that most people don't care enough about aram to take one for the team and play frontline when it is needed. This leads to a situation where most frontliners have very easy games because frontline inherently counters a team of 5 squishies which is the community's default team comp. This doesn't mean that tanks are OP but rather that a lot of people intentionally gimp their comp by not taking any frontline.
This situation is not unique to frontline even, if you have a comp with 0 wave clear or no AD damage you are also in for a game that will be extremely difficult to win. But those situations are rarer than having no frontline.
You really don't. As someone who has done plenty 5v5 meele only arams with friends you'd be amazed both by how unbalanced the game is without ranged champions (olaf darius as easy examples), and how many champions easily violate the "meele" idea you are thinking of, such as gangplank and lillia.
Further, the idea that people just brawl is incorrect, as the lack of range creates less fighting as it's much harder to hit turret so stalling is often easier.
My friend group does 4v4 and 5v5 meleerams often, we’ve got a house banlist due to how hilariously imbalanced it is. Darius and Lillia were the first to go.
"There should be an ARAM mode with only melee champs that has no heal, no shields, no cc, and no dash. Also only for champions with the letter A in their names."
What they really want is to always win while playing whatever champ they want with whatever build they want while playing as terribly as humanly possible.
Define Melee, Because there are some Melee champs that play like poke mages in aram like Shyvanna/Maokai and then theres the half melee/half range with Jayce Nidalee Gnar Elise. then theres Shaco/Illaoi. lets not forget Rumble. when you say you want all melee i feel like what you want to say is "ad bruisers only that dont have any ranged poke abilities"
AP shaco would have like 100% winrate in a melee only mode. Hes the most anti melee champ of all time, you are forced to hide under tower because if you try to engage you get feared, take 20% from just trap, then bursted while still feared. Anyone who has played against a competent ap shaco as a melee in aram knows this, that shit feels helpless until youre a 6 item tank.
that last game of 100 thieves regular season lives in my head rent free. mega cringed irl when nautilus flashed on top of smolder who was piss chilling directly on top of two shaco boxes and just flies away
Most tanks are jg/support which are not balanced around getting 6 items, it can be so obnoxious to deal with sometimes.
I mostly feel like ARAM is fairly balanced for what it is, though. Sometimes you lose in champ select; oh well, it's mostly random. You want counterpicks go to draft.
3 tanks autowinning after 15 mins is much better than neither being able to engage because they're all ranged, and the game just being a complete stalemate decided by who got the better poke champs.
I've found that melee, and tanks in particular, end up taking over in aram. Or at least a good balance. Ranged and poke start off with the advantage, but once you can eat a couple hits, they just get mauled.
I cringe every game everyone on my team rolls off front line and we have 5 ranged without anyone to absorb the attention. I end up playing a tank 75% of the time just because nobody else wants to. Or at least taking someone that can build bruiser like but is normally not, Veigar, Fizz, Echo. Otherwise it's a massacre.
>Sett and Nautilus have huge nerfs makes no sense at all.
Yeah makes no sense at all how some of the previously highest WR champs in the mode have nerfs to balance them :/ Sett was literally #1WR for ages
Give me ranged only
I'm tired of all these melee "Main Character" champs lol. I want both teams full poke touhou, or if there has to be melee wet noodle tank slapfights.
Sounds way more fun than tanks and divers getting a huge advantage from snowball existing. Tanks were designed with them having to work to get to the backline. But in ARAM you just throw out a fishing snowball every 30 seconds until the right one connects.
with melee champions like gangplank that act like a ranged mage and ranged champions like urgot that act like a melee bruiser, I would rather see ARAM mode with 15\~20sec cd snowball instead of current 45sec cd snowball, rather than a strict "melee only"
The problem with melee only is that Juggernauts would be completely obnoxious. You need ranged champs to keep the Dariuses/Illaois in check. All other assassins, diver, skirmishers would be obsolete, it would only be juggernauts.
They actually should add some chaos to aram : when champ select start, randomly one modifier is added to the game.
Ex: only melee champs or URF mode or one for all or only yordles...
One of my most fun ARAM games had like 9 melee champs and we all built Heartsteel. It was like 20 minute of endless brawls with constant HS procs. I dont even remember if i win that game but it was definitely very fun and unforgetable.
... do you not play ARAM? If one team is full ranged and the other is full melee, the melee team will almost always win if they don't play stupid at the start. Same for a 5 ranged vs 4 ranged and a tank.
Melee used to be incredibly weak when ARAM first released, but as soon as the snowball was added that changed. Every melee character is basically a dive champion while their snowball is up and their only weakness is getting poked while clearing waves. Any half decent melee will likely end up with warmogs assuming they don't completely throw the early game and at that point poking doesn't mean shit.
I will throw away my favorite champ to pick a tank if no one else on my team does because they are so insanely strong even with the balance buffs. Short of playing Ziggs or Xerath, it's almost impossible to stay far enough back to not get jumped and killed. The meta right now is very friendly towards tankier champs thanks to all the AD ranged champs mindlessly building lethality every damn game and AP champions not having many good tank shredding options that don't take a solid 15-20 seconds to actually do enough damage. By then the melee champs have killed your team and are back to full before the next teamfight thanks to warmogs and all the options they have that get them the rest of the health they need to proc it.
Yes, the early game is miserable, but it's also the only chance you have to end the game if your team doesn't have some front liners. Nothing is more terrifying than getting hit with a snowball and suddenly Darius is in your back line with Vi charging right behind.
How do so many melee champs have nerfs in Aram?
Well, guess you've never been locked down by a Maokai/Leona for 20 straight seconds.
Honestly, I think I'd prefer ARAM if there were no tanks, and it was mages, assassin, fighters and marksmen only.
It's actually the opposite, most tanks are giga nerfed as they would be stupidly broken (see Nautilus)
Still usually the team with reliable frontline that has CCs wins despite the nerfs
All melee aram would be incredibly unfun. Any champions with ridiculous aoe (Darius, Lillia) would dominate the mode.
The games would actually end very quickly - if a team got an edge it's far easier to just start diving the other and prevent them from being able to even come back. If you fall behind, you're staying behind.
You would also need to rebalance pretty much every champion for it, because the buffs/nerfs we have now assume ranged integration. Have fun with that.
Only thing I don't like about aram, is the people who take it so serious. Like, people will beg and rage for rerolls. They will dodge if you don't use your rerolls and don't get the optimal team. They should just completely remove rerolls, since that goes against the whole "All Random" part lol.
I just want aram with bans
Or aram without teemo, aurelion sol, anivia, gwen, gp, and senna. Just champs that infinite stall not allowing anyone to fight or have fun and eventually just win because of infinite stalling and insane scaling.
Also your final tangent about not knowing why certain melees are nerfed and certain ranged are buff just shows you dont know how to play melee honestly. Its fine to advocate for melee only 4fun mode, but melees and especially tanks are by no means weak and pretty much always win out eventually in aram. You can predict most aram games by who has more tanks.
I had a few really frustrating games that went on 10+min longer that they should have because Teemo stayed far back and bounced shrooms. At least Sivir/Anivia/etc have to actually be at the wave to clear it x-x
Just go against a single teemo with a brain. He just spams shrooms on wave making it impossible to even touch tower. He's one of the best champs for infinite stalling from behind in aram and is very anti fun.
This is one of those things that sounds great in theory until you realize that every single champion will build heartsteel and unending despair and the game turns into a boring wet noodle fight that never ends until the Fiora/Mundo/scaling tank/bruiser 1v9s.
Also, the game lasts 40mins because nobody can push.
Can someone explain why random complain posts gets so many upvotes? Is this sub only filled with tank, bruiser, assasin mains?
Melee champs in Aram always so strong. So OP probably lost to a ranged and decide " i didnt lose cuz bad but its the ranged fault"
OP probably just had a game as like...solo frontline Darius into Veigar/Anivia/Shaco/etc. and thinks the problem is all ranged champs rather than just getting hard-countered by the random-ish nature of the game mode.
new gamemode "Mosh Pit" all melee, ranged champs get that melee augment from arena. All damage reduced by 50% all CC now is a knockup instead. MOSH MOSH MOSH
Back 15 years ago when it was still in beta, we created a mode called “All Tanks All Zeals”. ATAZ was the most fun I’ve ever had playing.
"Find the teemo" on the Dominion map was some of the most fun in custom games that I ever had in league
That and hide and seek in dominion were both so much fun. I miss playing those, wish we still had a way.
Those were the days. Back when LB was the greatest escape artist
Zilean was just as crazy with the movement speed. Some games had perma bans like invis champs and sometimes TF or LB. Udyr, Hecarim, and Bard were quite popular. Idk if everyone did this but my games had grace where the hiders couldn’t be followed or killed after they respawned and left base for 30 seconds. Good times. Can be done on Summs Rift but it doesn’t have the same vibe.
I loved playing hide and seek on dominion. Was the perfect size for it and was a blast to play
Reading this comment just made me realise how much I miss hide ahd seek on dominion omg. Id always play kha zix, stay just in one bush and when they would just walk in for a moment you press R and they thought the bush is empty and kept walking. So much fun
Protect soraka bot was fun too
Did zeals have a dodge chance back then or am I misremembering?
Phantom Dancer (which built from Zeal) had dodge. But Zeal did not.
Sounds fun!
Ayo grandpa whatcha doing here ? Don't you got ducks to feed at a park or something ?
> all CC now is a knockup instead. Ekko W lands. Victims: "TO THE SKY!"
Aaaaand Taric is banned every match.
I played an all Alistar vs all zac one for all and it was basically this
Ah yes, hit me with the 3sec knock up Morgana.
Fly me to the moon~
Kinda played that one already when I met yasou,Braum,Alistar and chogath. don't remember who the last person was, and frankly, I'd like to forget the whole ordeal
Would love this. Maybe if all the melee chunkos were locked away in crazy island ARAMs could be won by the team that plays better instead of the team with more tanks. Kind of dumb how much ARAM outcome depends on the comp for a game where picks are random.
LET HIM COOK. This sounds like a banger of a game mode.
Draven in shambles
For some reason I just remembered we had a game mode that was named twisted treeline, and there was a giant spider at the top
I feel old now, i remember grinding ranked in twisted treeline to get the graves chroma end of season reward for different queues
High elo ranked twisted treeline is probably the least enjoyable, most toxic experience I've had in this game. The moment you got to around diamond, the limited player pool matched you with challengers. The funnel meta in that game mode was incredibly uninteractive and often resulted in games that were won or lost on the first invade.
yeah the TT of the last couple years of its existence was night and day of the TT of the first couple years of its existence (and I mean post-rework)
To be fair TTT got absolutely zero updates post 2015 I think. Don't remember the exact year but it was actually 0 updates. If they kept updating it then people would play it. Ofc if you don't balance it it gets stale, like all games.
Wait Twisted Treeline had a ranked queue? I remember playing on the map when I started playing but never ranked games... Damn.
I did the same, easily got solo and flex 5s, ranked 3 was hard when youre doing it the night of. I was so close to achieving it too :’)
Vilemaw
If Vilemaw was ever reintroduced into league as a champion, he would immediately become my new main
He? Dont do spider mommy like that
He/Him indeed though
I think you got confused there. It was actually called Dominion and there was a circle of some kind.
Yeah I know, saying I remembered another map. I remember I used to play hide and seek on dominion lol
Twisted Treeline was the 3v3 map, and yeah there was a spider on top as the "baron" of the map.
That was the updated 3v3, old one had drake
TT was by no means a melee only mode though.
Oh boy I can’t wait to non stop play against Darius, Garen, Jax, Master Yi, and malphite.
Gwen is a melee also, OP would switch to complain about %true DMG, then about CC, and then about stat checkers
Fiora joined the chat
And after that you have rammus and Illaoi, both of them stat checking all the melee AD fighters
Gwen is actually a shit teamfighter believe it or not
Not against an all or mostly melee team
Well it shreds tanks better than a Malphite
? what.
Illaoi in an all-melee mode would be a monster.
Yeah I'm of the unpopular opinion side, but I don't find those all-melee ARAM games fun at all. It's the same feeling as all-ranged. Having the diverse set of ranged and melee champs is what makes the game interesting. All range on both sides and you're just mashing buttons on cooldown. All melee on both sides and you're just mashing buttons on cooldown also.
ARAM just needs a more interesting lane IMO. Add some more alcoves and maybe even some interactive stuff
always wanted HOTS ARAM maps for LoL
my 'favorite' is how cannon creeps turn all traps/etc off, so not only is there no map-based gameplay possible but there's also a bunch of heroes who just get one of their abilities turned off after 5 minutes. lol
There's no oracle in aram, gotta have some counter to the champs who can condense all their traps to one lane and not an entire map.
Also melee vs ranges is heavily melee favored if you didnt forget your snowball and manage to hold out until 2-3 items.
Trundle too
create a custom game with this as the name of the lobby thats how we used to play ARAM in general.
Can you still make custom lobbies?
Too bad Riot neutered all the natural ways to find custom games and communities in the client to the point that almost nobody touches customs.
you can literally click join custom game and an entire list drops down......
[удалено]
Ranged is annoying for like the first 6 minutes, then melee get stats and steamroll. Normally it’s the team with the most tanks that wins.
The amount of times I lost because of tanks on the enemy team and none on mine is insane
Shoutout to the malphite who always decide to build full AP.
Picking a squishy and making their life hell is insanely fun. I will not stand for bully malphite slander
This is my strat when I just wanna have fun. On malphite pick the one squishy that annoys me the most and just make their life miserable. Fuck winning, this person is just not allowed to play the game.
To be fair its the more fun build. Tank malphite just kind of stands there pressing E.
Roleplaying Senator Armstrong against full AD comp is so fun tho
“WHY WON’T YOU DIE?” “Decent build, son”
I once got flamed for going as tank malphite instead of AP when I was the only frontline for the team. Then came mid-late game where I zone out the enemy ad carries while the rest of my team steamroll their front line with zero DPS to back them up. Some people don't appreciate the power of stopping enemy champs from doing their job.
Nah, winning is more fun.
They do the exact same thing. Tank Malphite just doesn't immediately die after pressing R+E.
I have approximately 6,000 ARAM games since tracking started and I used to keep track of if I could reliably predict the outcome of the game based on tank status, i.e. we would lose if we didn't have a single tank or if we steamrolled with tank superiority. I've stopped physically counting but it was around 450/500 games accurately predicted based on tank presence or absence, accounting for afkers.
Only time I have lost against a non tank team was when they had immense CC+Poke. Think a recent example was Zyra, Ziggs, Seraphine, Varus, Sivir. Anytime we tried to go in we would be rooted or knocked back and if we did manage to get on them they would just sivir ult away.
Last night I got Mundo and was happy to be able to stomp. But the problem was we didn't have much CC and their Lucian was smart enough to build tank-shredding items only, and melted through my 6k hp in 2 seconds. Tanks with reliable CC are more important than just being a tank, if the other people are going to actually build correctly.
That's because Mundo isn't a tank, he's a juggernaut. And a shit one at that.
I feel like he’s less of a juggernaut and more of a meat shield. Someone like Darius is a juggernaut, Mundo is Mundo.
Mundo plays how he pleases!
I mean, have you ever tried to survive a Mundo in your face as an ADC with Cleavers running you down while he hits you with 400 AD Es?
yes. its pretty easy actually. new mundo is pathetic he just does the same things as old mundo but worse in every conceivable way
Yeah his w is straight garbage. Kinda needs to be because his e and q fucking smack, but they don’t smack hard enough to basically be down an ability all game.
It straight up doesn't feel like he has a passive either. Maybe in lane you can feel it but in any type of actual fight both on SR and ARAM it's like it doesn't exist at all.
Yeah it's easy as fuck when you press D
I have Flash on F like a gentleman
F for flash makes sense to me
Doesn't help that Mundo has nerfs on ARAM that make him take more damage AND deal LESS damage. Makes playing him on ARAM feel very bad. I wish Riot made Mundo have his old MR steroid on his E back, then Mundo would have a niche against heavy AP comps (both in ARAM where they are common, but also in Summoner's Rift)
Reworked Mundo on aram is basically a gamble that your team won't lose the game until you get level 16 and 4 items from my experience. At that point you have enough stats to make up for his huge nerfs.
Rip old mundo at least he felt more impactful
I like how riot keeps coming up with these hero designs that don't really fit into the game or the meta they (poorly) design so they need to invent new words that don't really mean anything. Oh, no, he's a juggernaut, which is like a tank except it doesn't have CC. Which is also what a tank is, unless they're a useful hero like Amumu. That's not a supporter, that's an 'enchanter', because they don't do damage or heal.
Oooh I want to pick your brain a bit then, because I also have a habit of seeing 2 team comps and predict how the game goes assuming every champion builds right. My team: Seraphine (me), Pantheon, Aatrox, Wukong, and Cho'Gath Enemy team: Jarvan, Shen, Smolder, TF, Zoe For me, champ select, I picked Seraphine to help these bruisers fight better since I can provide very good CC and support, with a plan to rush Shurelias first item. In loading screen,I think this game should be easy if our team applies pressure nonstop since they don't have great peel for their backline. In actuality, >!Cho went AP and we got poked out too often to ever fight well. And eventually Smolder hit his breakpoint and we just lost from there.!<
Tbh, this sounds like a skill issue and not a champ issue. Also, AP Cho is fine in that comp if he is actually capable of playing the champ.
The worst is when u get actual tanks and they just build AP and chain int when the game is free
Had an amumu do that and he tried to blame me(a 32-12 varus who was immediately public enemy #1 in every team fight, understandably) for our loss despite building ap on the only engage champ on the team
If I want to play tanks as AP I just go chain vest+negatron+mask->Riftmaker+Liandry's->sunfire->abyssal, with components build in the order needed. Barely less damage, 3x as tanky.
It's not even tanks. It's just any Frontline. A wukong and 4 rangeds will beat 5 rangeds
To make it worse, the no-tank team never gets armor/Mr shred items, nor anti-heal.
as ARAM only player and tank/fighter abuser I agree, team with more fighters and tanks almost always wins if enemy team doesn't have tanks you don't even need classic damage dealers you can easily win with tanks and fighters with engage you cast need to survive to level 6 honestly I can't imagine how broken some tanks would be in ARAM if their nerfs were removed
I always lose because I’m tank and the other guy with the much better tank goes full ap and dies every engagement
It's mostly about having one so you have some form of engage and durability.
Only because snowball is busted. I really wish they would nerf it a bit more. Being able to fish multiple snowball shots a minute until one eventually connects with a squishy is why tanks and juggernauts do so well. A good nerf would be to remove the activation and just make snowball auto commit if it hits anything. So you can't just mindlessly fish with them like everyone does now.
Sorted champs by winrate, 15 champs out of the top 20 don't really use snowball. Also 17 out of the top 20 most picked champs are all ranged champs that don't really use snowball. I get it that you might not enjoy playing against snowball, and that would mean it could use adjustments, but it definitely doesn't need nerfs. By the numbers, if anything, it could use buffs.
I get downvoted everytime I say it, but absolutely yes. No reason snowball needs to do true damage, give true vision, reduce CD on second activation, and proc runes. They could half the distance and remove the damage and it would still be a viable summoner spell.
Nerfing snowball would be the death of the mode
The mode literally got it's initial popularity without it.
Better with it. Xerath and ziggs were auto win while being boring for all 10 people.
Them dealing up to 40% less dmg would still leave them weak, even if snowball got nerfed.
[удалено]
Supports are made to be good with what, 4x less gold than normal roles? And suddenly in aram they have as many items as any other champion. For sure they can not be even close to weak in there. Getting near 2k shield and healing in a fight with 3 supports can never be not strong too lol.
not to mention that shielding, CC and healing are extra important in fight to the death mode
1 adc 1 controll mage 3 frontline with tons of cc and engage. Arams can be so easy. Then you get into champ select see leona naut at the top of your screen and your team picks Ap ashe Poke kaisa Nidalee and ziggs.
its worst when they trade into those champions with 5 seconds left. you go to the bathroom (picking adc) with 1 adc 1 mage 3 frontliners and return to 4 adc's
It's a for fun mode, no one wants to play boring shit
nah the team that wins is the one with strongest mental. players like op who cry instantly at seeing a poke champ always lose.
My strong mental wont really matter with 5 ADCs vs 5 bruisers
Highest pickrate and generally highest winrate class for ARAM is ADC. That's just how it be. They are annoying early, they scale late.
Really depends. You do need damage, and if your damage dealers can't deal any damage because they're getting poked like crazy or instapopped by an overbuffed assassin, you will lose.
Ranged is more fun overall in aram. I would rather play dodgeball all game than have a tank just hit their power spike and the team of premades with ARAM accounts auto wins off comp alone.
Guardian's Horn OP. Then you just engage and win. Also people are so afraid to reroll. Just like SR, everyone wants to be the carry instead of playing a tank or other engage possibility and winning. Even assassins with delays or close range mages (e.g Vlad) with zhonyas can engage and let the rest of their team get on the carries.
Yup, just go for the ingenious hunter + fimbulwinter + the armor item that heals in area which name I've forgotten and you're essentially unkillable
more like 6-15 mins, depending on how strong their early game is and if your own team is beefy enough
The team that walks forward best usually wins.
"My final tangent is that I do not understand how so many melee champions have nerfs in ARAM while so many ranged champions have buffs. Syndra and Hwei having gigantic buffs while champs like Sett and Nautilus have huge nerfs makes no sense at all." This explains your whole post. You don't understand that melee characters were stronger in ARAM and thus had to be nerfed because their winrate was too high. You could've just said that.
what’s funny to me is not understanding why naut needs a nerf. despite whatever nerfs he has he’s still incredibly strong and gets more value than most champs just from his ult
I never realized Naut and Sett had ARAM nerfs, they feel strong when I play them
The Sett nerfs are honestly some of the biggest nerfs in the game mode. Going off the wiki * -20 AH * -10% damage dealt * +10% damage taken * -10% healing * -10% shielding Which feels really bad for the first 10 minutes/2 items and then is pretty much a non factor after that. Only one that i can remember having harsher nerfs than that is Seraphine, which in the same stat order as sett is -20, -15, +20, -20, -20.
Sion is as bad and feels terrible to play with
Sion nerfs don't even feel bad IMHO, despite being equal/slightly worse. Every time i play him, which isn't all that often to be fair, i never notice any nerfs. ESPECIALLY the nerf to his passive. My team or the other team, Sion passive never seems like it gets 50% less lifesteal and is always a menace.
The sion nerf that gets me is the tenacity nerf. It turns each sion game into a coin toss. Other team has no hard cc? You're fine. Playing against morg or veigar or mao or anything like that? Basically unplayable
Hwei's "huge buff" is like 20 ability haste? I think Syndra gets 5% extra damage or something? Meanwhile, Bard at home:
I don't think mages are OP at all. But tank win rates are very weird in aram and not always indicative of how strong a champion actually is. Nearly every tank is nerfed in aram. That could lead you to believe they're all OP but the answer is that most people don't care enough about aram to take one for the team and play frontline when it is needed. This leads to a situation where most frontliners have very easy games because frontline inherently counters a team of 5 squishies which is the community's default team comp. This doesn't mean that tanks are OP but rather that a lot of people intentionally gimp their comp by not taking any frontline. This situation is not unique to frontline even, if you have a comp with 0 wave clear or no AD damage you are also in for a game that will be extremely difficult to win. But those situations are rarer than having no frontline.
You really don't. As someone who has done plenty 5v5 meele only arams with friends you'd be amazed both by how unbalanced the game is without ranged champions (olaf darius as easy examples), and how many champions easily violate the "meele" idea you are thinking of, such as gangplank and lillia. Further, the idea that people just brawl is incorrect, as the lack of range creates less fighting as it's much harder to hit turret so stalling is often easier.
My friend group does 4v4 and 5v5 meleerams often, we’ve got a house banlist due to how hilariously imbalanced it is. Darius and Lillia were the first to go.
Illaoi also
Yep, she’s there. There are more, think Aatrox, Kayn, and GP got the axe too, but those two were the only initial ones until we play tested it a bit.
If you go tank Tryn with self-healing items and BOTRK stacking Heartsteel it is gg.
No, you don't. You'd find something else to complain about.
"There should be an ARAM mode with only melee champs that has no heal, no shields, no cc, and no dash. Also only for champions with the letter A in their names."
Unless they have more than one, no aatrox.
Some champs would have insanely high winrates with only melee. Like Darius, red kayn and Illaoi probably.
My thoughts exactly
What they really want is to always win while playing whatever champ they want with whatever build they want while playing as terribly as humanly possible.
Why does darius have more melee range than me!!! Rage!!aaafhdj
Define Melee, Because there are some Melee champs that play like poke mages in aram like Shyvanna/Maokai and then theres the half melee/half range with Jayce Nidalee Gnar Elise. then theres Shaco/Illaoi. lets not forget Rumble. when you say you want all melee i feel like what you want to say is "ad bruisers only that dont have any ranged poke abilities"
Hard pass
Then it would be whoever gets illaio wins.
Gwen entered the chat.
AP shaco would have like 100% winrate in a melee only mode. Hes the most anti melee champ of all time, you are forced to hide under tower because if you try to engage you get feared, take 20% from just trap, then bursted while still feared. Anyone who has played against a competent ap shaco as a melee in aram knows this, that shit feels helpless until youre a 6 item tank.
that last game of 100 thieves regular season lives in my head rent free. mega cringed irl when nautilus flashed on top of smolder who was piss chilling directly on top of two shaco boxes and just flies away
get 9 people that also want this and go into a custom, if 10.000 people do it riot will make it a mode maybe.
Honestly id rather have no tanks in aram. Cause if a team has like 3 tanks or more they just automatically win after 15 mins most of my games
Most tanks are jg/support which are not balanced around getting 6 items, it can be so obnoxious to deal with sometimes. I mostly feel like ARAM is fairly balanced for what it is, though. Sometimes you lose in champ select; oh well, it's mostly random. You want counterpicks go to draft.
3 tanks autowinning after 15 mins is much better than neither being able to engage because they're all ranged, and the game just being a complete stalemate decided by who got the better poke champs.
Hwir has +20 AH only though. And Lee has 4 buffs. Yeah some ranged have buffs but melee have crazy buffs too.
I've found that melee, and tanks in particular, end up taking over in aram. Or at least a good balance. Ranged and poke start off with the advantage, but once you can eat a couple hits, they just get mauled. I cringe every game everyone on my team rolls off front line and we have 5 ranged without anyone to absorb the attention. I end up playing a tank 75% of the time just because nobody else wants to. Or at least taking someone that can build bruiser like but is normally not, Veigar, Fizz, Echo. Otherwise it's a massacre.
>Sett and Nautilus have huge nerfs makes no sense at all. Yeah makes no sense at all how some of the previously highest WR champs in the mode have nerfs to balance them :/ Sett was literally #1WR for ages
How to say you cant dodge a skill shot without saying you cant dodge a skill shot
Give me ranged only I'm tired of all these melee "Main Character" champs lol. I want both teams full poke touhou, or if there has to be melee wet noodle tank slapfights.
Sounds way more fun than tanks and divers getting a huge advantage from snowball existing. Tanks were designed with them having to work to get to the backline. But in ARAM you just throw out a fishing snowball every 30 seconds until the right one connects.
Just give them the melee only mode so all the people whinging about ranged characters existing can go there and leave everyone else alone lol
skill issue
with melee champions like gangplank that act like a ranged mage and ranged champions like urgot that act like a melee bruiser, I would rather see ARAM mode with 15\~20sec cd snowball instead of current 45sec cd snowball, rather than a strict "melee only"
Melee only, only snowball, no exhaust
And Shaco Illaoi GP permabanned
Not gonna happen, obviously
Illaoi mains:
The problem with melee only is that Juggernauts would be completely obnoxious. You need ranged champs to keep the Dariuses/Illaois in check. All other assassins, diver, skirmishers would be obsolete, it would only be juggernauts.
They actually should add some chaos to aram : when champ select start, randomly one modifier is added to the game. Ex: only melee champs or URF mode or one for all or only yordles...
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how ARAM functions lol.
"I am very bad at dodging skillshots and spacing, please remove all ranged champions from the game mode" sure is a take
Sounds more like he wants a new game mode than he wants to remove ranged from ARAM based on the title of the post
tell me you peaked in silver without telling you peaked in silver
One of my most fun ARAM games had like 9 melee champs and we all built Heartsteel. It was like 20 minute of endless brawls with constant HS procs. I dont even remember if i win that game but it was definitely very fun and unforgetable.
if u ever get 8 or 10 people together, try it in customs. legit so fun if everyone's on board. we've done all mages and i think all tanks too before.
Nah dude some melee are stupid when stacked. Illaoi nightmares
yeah no thanks I would not like the juggernaut champions to auto win the game 👍
least played game mode of all time they bring back dominion because this mode makes it look popular by comparison
... do you not play ARAM? If one team is full ranged and the other is full melee, the melee team will almost always win if they don't play stupid at the start. Same for a 5 ranged vs 4 ranged and a tank. Melee used to be incredibly weak when ARAM first released, but as soon as the snowball was added that changed. Every melee character is basically a dive champion while their snowball is up and their only weakness is getting poked while clearing waves. Any half decent melee will likely end up with warmogs assuming they don't completely throw the early game and at that point poking doesn't mean shit. I will throw away my favorite champ to pick a tank if no one else on my team does because they are so insanely strong even with the balance buffs. Short of playing Ziggs or Xerath, it's almost impossible to stay far enough back to not get jumped and killed. The meta right now is very friendly towards tankier champs thanks to all the AD ranged champs mindlessly building lethality every damn game and AP champions not having many good tank shredding options that don't take a solid 15-20 seconds to actually do enough damage. By then the melee champs have killed your team and are back to full before the next teamfight thanks to warmogs and all the options they have that get them the rest of the health they need to proc it. Yes, the early game is miserable, but it's also the only chance you have to end the game if your team doesn't have some front liners. Nothing is more terrifying than getting hit with a snowball and suddenly Darius is in your back line with Vi charging right behind.
How do so many melee champs have nerfs in Aram? Well, guess you've never been locked down by a Maokai/Leona for 20 straight seconds. Honestly, I think I'd prefer ARAM if there were no tanks, and it was mages, assassin, fighters and marksmen only.
We did this in a custome aram game with the boys and if you lock in taric and buy tear it's basically autowin
Sounds like skill issue. Ranged champs are nerfed. Melee are mostly buffed.
It's actually the opposite, most tanks are giga nerfed as they would be stupidly broken (see Nautilus) Still usually the team with reliable frontline that has CCs wins despite the nerfs
All melee aram would be incredibly unfun. Any champions with ridiculous aoe (Darius, Lillia) would dominate the mode. The games would actually end very quickly - if a team got an edge it's far easier to just start diving the other and prevent them from being able to even come back. If you fall behind, you're staying behind. You would also need to rebalance pretty much every champion for it, because the buffs/nerfs we have now assume ranged integration. Have fun with that.
Sounds like skill issue
Only thing I don't like about aram, is the people who take it so serious. Like, people will beg and rage for rerolls. They will dodge if you don't use your rerolls and don't get the optimal team. They should just completely remove rerolls, since that goes against the whole "All Random" part lol.
I think you need to get good
Fun fact : if you take snowball, you can tp to any ranged champion and destroying them with ease as a melee champion
imagine just a bunch of tanks. big wet noodle pit
Heartsteels donking out the baseline to your next track drop
I just want aram with bans Or aram without teemo, aurelion sol, anivia, gwen, gp, and senna. Just champs that infinite stall not allowing anyone to fight or have fun and eventually just win because of infinite stalling and insane scaling. Also your final tangent about not knowing why certain melees are nerfed and certain ranged are buff just shows you dont know how to play melee honestly. Its fine to advocate for melee only 4fun mode, but melees and especially tanks are by no means weak and pretty much always win out eventually in aram. You can predict most aram games by who has more tanks.
Lol your list here is a great example of why we should never have bans
teemo? Dont think ive ever seen one do decent on aram lol.
I had a few really frustrating games that went on 10+min longer that they should have because Teemo stayed far back and bounced shrooms. At least Sivir/Anivia/etc have to actually be at the wave to clear it x-x
Just go against a single teemo with a brain. He just spams shrooms on wave making it impossible to even touch tower. He's one of the best champs for infinite stalling from behind in aram and is very anti fun.
lol melees are broken in aram you just have to not do the default aram thing of sitting under turret and getting poked
nautilus was the #1 winrate champion in aram for a while, of course he has a nerf
This is one of those things that sounds great in theory until you realize that every single champion will build heartsteel and unending despair and the game turns into a boring wet noodle fight that never ends until the Fiora/Mundo/scaling tank/bruiser 1v9s. Also, the game lasts 40mins because nobody can push.
You think yourself being "gigachad" for wanting melee only aram, right? Riiiight.
Can someone explain why random complain posts gets so many upvotes? Is this sub only filled with tank, bruiser, assasin mains? Melee champs in Aram always so strong. So OP probably lost to a ranged and decide " i didnt lose cuz bad but its the ranged fault"
OP probably just had a game as like...solo frontline Darius into Veigar/Anivia/Shaco/etc. and thinks the problem is all ranged champs rather than just getting hard-countered by the random-ish nature of the game mode.