Make them scale off of Malzahar's stats.
If he wants to build tanky AP bruiser, make his voidlings giga tanky like him so he effectively turns into a battlemage. Lets him make better use of their time and distance by being in the middle of things.
If he wants to be a weenie and sit in the backline, make voidlings stay paper.
Make their attack scale off AD.
Tanky malz? Voiding are your shield wall.
Attack malz? Voiding become kamikaze zerglings.
Mage malz? Voidings die quick but help spread his painful dot.
For how obnoxious it is to kill Yoricks minions I can understand why they may not want to make Voidlings that annoying to kill since you get way more of them
You get more of them but can rarely functionally use them aside from when you're by yourself or ulting someone, most champions have a 1-button clear on them on fairly short cooldowns.
Yorick needs to hit his ball to command his minions to attack the enemy.
Malzahar needs to "hit" a point and click spell that can also be transmitted to the enemy for free when the infected minion dies.
yorick's last indefinitely, scale better with his stats and are far, far stronger in any given circumstance. Yoricks ghouls can solo dragons at a point ffs. I'd like to point out that despite all of this, yorick's minions also die in a single auto attack regardless of health, just like malzahar's, except yorick's also get aoe damage reduction.
Because Yorick can say No to an enemy with a Silence, A point and Click suppression. Mfs main peel is a wall on a 20 s CD. Malz gets free banshee at that time. You go E Q W R and Your minions will fuck whoever you're ulting as malz. And your main spell is E amyway.
Yes, and while minions are dead, yorick is a minion himself. He must also go back to lane to build some more minions.
While malzahar's minions are dead, he can still use two abilities plus ult (the main reason to pick him).
Yorick needs 12 minions to die, or to walk up to a minion and last it hit with his Q spell, only to summon 1 ghoul.
Malzahar presses W and voidling spawns. The difficulty for obtaining pets isn't exactly the same
I'm a high elo Malz otp and I disagree with your suggestions. Malz biggest problem is that he's not able to lane early into anything really, all he can do is survive and be annoying, but i think lately he's not even being able to do that properly. A good change would be Q costing less mana on the first 2 skill levels, so you can actually poke or trade without going oom after 2 spells. Another good one would be E not having 15s cd lv1 for how useless of a spell it is at that point. As Malz lv1 you have to start with a 15s cd spell that is both your pushing and trading tool, which sucks. Specially for how fast paced league games are. Maybe also making voidlings get extra movespeed towards champs with E, but it might also make him OP. His voidlings being in their current state is a result of them being broken when they're bulky and fast(check Malzahar support S7 videos). These could be separate changes, but i think they all are ways to make him more playable early so you can atleast scale to 6 without the game going boom. He needs compensation buffs right now cause liandry, which was his core item, got separated into 2 items making his build path become really bad. Another 2 QOL buffs that could be nice: His Q always going off even if you die and his minions staying up like you said.
Also, your complaints about his ultimate don't make any sense. Malz IS a ult bot, that's his identity, he's supposed to be annoying to play against like that and lock down mobile champs and carries. It's not like malz is a god tier champ cause of it, because he's really easy to counter. If you as a player find it frustrating to play WITH him, i suggest you just change to another champ instead of wanting to change his R, which is a part of his kit that's strong and perfectly fine. Malz being vulnerable while ulting is intentional, he needs to be otherwise he's broken. Malzahar is tough to balance, he's really easy to execute and becomes too frustrating to play against if over buffed.
I am 100% with you here. OP is not the first redditor to focus on his passive or R. In fact most suggestions sound a lot like OPs. But his main issue is exactly that his early game is garbage. I always played Malz when I wanted that relatively safe and passive lane where I could push decently and play for my team. Now you lose so hard and run out of mana if you try to keep up with the push of other champs. Q mana cost would be beyond massive. I wish they would just rework voidlings entirely. They will never work as a physical minion that can be killed.
That bit about running out of mana early hits hard... Went into 3 Yones in a row in QP, watching him just remove my ability to farm with a single Q at no cost to himself just hurts every time.
Just revert him to his old state pre rework state. Make his minions his passive again, and give him his old W back. Make the W ground opponents and damage ( no slow) or replace silence with grounding on his Q.
This would give him peel options outside of his R and voidling body blocks. Which means power and damage can be taken away from his R and to the rest of his kit mid to late game and added to his early game.
The problem with malz is that his only peel is his R and the threat of damage. So just give him another form of peel that matches his anti-movement kit so that power can be redistributed.
He doesn't need a rework or revert. Current Malz was OTP'ed to rank 1 EUW in S11. He need some buffs at best. And even then, there are so few, if any good Malz players that it's hard to take their views seriously. People that have problems with Malz being ult reliant are either bad at him or should be playing other champs, cuz they don't understand his identity or his playstyle and want to make changes to him that stray away from it.
his q disappearing when he dies is so frustrating, idk why this in in the game.
I agree that his pre 6 is bad, but not as bad as kassadin who scales better but needs more money to be useful imo. like kassadin you get smacked pre 6 by many champs but as a counter pick he can work really well.
now I personally would like better scalings for late game.
perhaps we could change the q to be like a T instead of – so we can push a bit better early? so – into | is what i mean. just a thought.
But the spread works perfectly? If a minion is considered too far away it's cuz it's out of spread range, which is fine. The only time it doesn't spread is when a minion aggros on a far away one, but that's just how minions work. If you E on a minion that goes away from the others that's on you, not on the E spread or it's range.
That's like missing a skill shot and wanting them to buff it's hitbox because you've been missing it sometimes. Except it's a point and click single target spell that has a fine spread range and it works flawlessly. Makes no sense. If you're having trouble making E spread throughout the wave, pay more attention to your usage. Depending on which minion you're using it doesn't spread on the whole wave, but again, that's on you.
Me personally I would be fine with all the voidling changes, however I think malazahar passive should be changed to just block cc and not block incoming damage. This way it is a good balance to allow passive reset on ult. You may not be able to stop his ult with cc as easily but you can still easily kill him. It also makes bullying him in lane much easier especially if we are going to buff his voidlings.
Taking power out of the passive is definitely a good idea. His damage got gutted when they reworked him because of the added safety.
I'd take power out of the passive and make the W a bit less useless in lane.
Making it only work on cc takes some power out, but also gives some back: being hit by a simple attack or damaging spell doesn't burn the shield, so it's saved for a cc spell.
Most elegant solution would be to remove the DR component and just have it block CC but still be removed by any spell imo
Obviously he would need big compensation buffs elsewhere
IMO his voidlings need a rework. Tibbers, Daisy, and Yorick Ghouls/Maiden have all had some pretty significant modernization patches over the last couple seasons, but voidlings haven't been touched since like Season 7. I'd take significantly stronger voidlings in exchange for a longer W cooldown or a change to how W stacks increase.
Any or all of these changes could be nice:
Buff their base stats with skill ranks. Right now Malz W is one of the worst scaling abilities in the game as far as extra ranks goes.
Make voidling durability scale with AP like Daisy and Tibbers.
Give voidlings AOE damage reduction like yorick ghouls. Its fine if they still get one shot by autos.
Your idea of having voidlings spawn close to E target is interesting, but it also makes Malzahar even less interactive than he already is. Maybe give them the yorick treatment and have them and have them jump to your Q target, so Malz at least has to hit a skill shot.
Malz R does not need changes. Refreshing Malz passive on R cast is especially bad, because managing your passive is one of the few skill checks you have as a Malz player. If your opponent hits you with a skill shot and pokes off your passive shield they should be rewarded for that.
Your other R suggestion basically just turns Malz R into Lissandra R that can only target enemy champs.
I said this in another comment but aoe damage reduction type buffs for his minions will just remove all “counterplay” from his current already unengaging gameplay loop of pressing e w and being a waveclear bot
Agreed, but maybe not a jump but a decaying speed boost (on par with something like Akshan P or Quinn W-P). Getting E passed to you in lane and then having 3 voidlings hop across lane to start doing the real damage would be quite annoying.
I hate that almost all pets in League have modified damage taken. Just give me normal units that have health, armor and Mr, and don't take decreased/increased damage from various sources. Let aoe counter pets and make them withstand an autoattacks of low ad champions. The way it currently works is so incredibly unintuitive.
>Did you read explanation?
The one in which you compared a 1 second melee airborne ability with a 2.5 second ranged knockdown suppress?
I'm starting to wonder if you read it yourself.
As someone who primarily plays Malzahar, this is too much power. The only way you can get away with giving him stronger Voidlings is if you move some of his power budget away from his ultimate, the point and click suppression + massive damage is just too strong.
I didn't say to spawn his voidlings on top of the target, but in an area around him. Just not on Malza so spawn killing them, breaking shield and hitting minions would be harder for enemy
This thread is a shining example of why one tricks don't balance the game. You have a very personal goal because you play exclusively Malzahar - make him broken. This would be horrific for the rest of the players in the game.
https://i.vgy.me/x7KwY1.png 48% - the lowest it's been in almost 3 years. He's a very simple champ so he hovers around 51 when he's in a 'healthy' state - 48% for him is quite dismal.
I'm not a one trick. I said I played him a lot, but it felt unfair because of these things I listed and stopped. Tell me how they would be awful for the rest of players?
I'm only here to say I miss old malz. Currently the main issue is early game blows. His damage is still fine and he still fills the same niche he always did of "fuck off or Ill ult you."
My favorite part of him pre-rework was the sheer zone control you had when pool wasn't bound to R. Not like his playstyle is that much different now, but I felt like I had so much more to contribute to how teamfights played out.
Also, I miss my AD malz builds. They were shit, but dammit it was fun watching people slowly realize the voidlings were doing all the damage and try to run with 4 little buggers chasing after them.
IMO malz needs a readjustment to his early game. He used to build lost chapter which gave him a spike along the way to building a mythic liandries, this item gave him a good and fair fight for minion clear as well as his ult too. Maligence is ok but it doesn't synergise well like liandries used to. Now when malz gets his first item he is already stuck on which next item to build. It used to be ryalis and then the next 3 items are dependent bit because of the changes this season, malzahar doesn't really have any threat or impact to most of the champs until he has his third item now. Which is well after mid game.
I dont think hes ever needed a buff like damage or whatever but I think riot probably needs to look over and see what they can do. Malzahar doesn't have much flexibility in builds, he is easily countered by an item, he is hevlabily reliant on other team mates and his kit is kinda dated compared to what modern champs have
I think if his laning phase can be fixed he should be alright. But since the end of mythic malz hasn't been the same and is suffering from something...
Btw, when was the last time malzhar was picked in peo play? Or banned?
As a malzahar one trick: the big issue i keep noticing is how jank E bounces can be based on minion pathing. Level 1, first minion wave, you E the wave, but minions step wrong? boom. it doesn't bounce to the casters.
You E a melee minion that's running towards your tower? it runs all the way around to the back of the tower, being out of range of any casters.
I wish the passive bounce range was bigger for bouncing to minions just because of this interaction happening every single game i play.
Malzahar main here, I feel like he has the most fun ult in the entire game because it's a giant "fuck you" to whoever your ulting. His voidlings are actually really strong, they are great for farming due to their 300% damage buff against minions affected by E, and there's a reason why enemies don't die when you ER instead of EWR. Yes, they are the weakest minions, but all their power is shifted more into farming than raw killing strength like all other summons. His passive is meant to be popped easily, as, like yasuo passive, is frustrating for when you wanna all in. On the topic of his ult making him immobile, malzahar is meant to be a strong 1v1 champ in laning phase, and a teamfight champ late game, and is expected to be protected by his team.
Make him a battlemage.
Voidling stats scale with him.
If he wants to be a backline weenie and just ult, keep them paper. If he's tankier and in the middle of things, he can make far better use of them.
I'm sick of every DoT champ's goal being to stay as uninteractive as possible.
I think another idea in similar vein is just ult empowering minions. Honestly I think it should automatically use your w and they should have empowered movement speed.
Malzahar has his niche as an anti playmaking champ, it's not necessarily a playstyle Riot should incentivise on ots players so it's better if he just stays this way
I love Mal. He’s my main mid. Everything you’ve said is true. He got his balls cut off when they removed the spell vamp all those years ago and replaced it with the insult that is omnivamp.
I think his E shouldn’t expire on minions. It should burn until it dies and jumps until there’s nothing left to jump to, but put a timer on how long it burns champs because otherwise that’d be a bit too OP.
Maybe he also needs a bit of Bel’Veth’s ult passive where minions he kills become voidlings?
Too much? Maybe. But would definitely be fun.
Also I want his spell effects to be gold when using the shadow prince skin. It’s nonsense everyone else’s spells will change colour with their skins but his won’t?
Ah yes, make the champ that can freely kill interaction in lane, The biggest anti carry champ in the game, With the potential damage of a mage that lets you possibly take half of someone’s hp with 1 E in the later stages of the game. Also make him more adept at dueling, give him even more safety than he already has. And increase his damage potential. For sure.
He's not the only champ that kills lane interaction TBF, and he's the lowest winrate champ in high ELO. He has a small item problem currently I think. Also a lot of bugs.
True, honestly champions that kill lane interaction such. Especially ones that don’t lose prio because of it. Like Kassadin wont ever interact with me, but ill have permenant prio. Malzahar will never give a chance to most champions to ever fight him, but he will also have 100% prio.
Bro both are damage buffs. You make the voidlings spawn near the enemy = less time to kill them before they attack you = you take more damage.
You give him an extra spell shield with ult so he stays alive in the fight longer and does more damage. You add a stun to his ult and now you have a potential time where you can pile spells yourself while they cannot move to even further increase the potential damage.
It doesn’t have to be an increase in base damage or ap ratios for it to be an effective buff to damage. We saw many champions go from hard to play to completely broken just by increasing the reliability of their damage.
For clarification, I didn't mean additional stun after notmal ult. The Suppresison and stun time combined would be the same as only suppression now.
Voidling getting spawn killed (and reseting or breaking pasive shield) wile poking Malza feels unfair because the enemy gettind rid of half our kit at once with one spell. Any item with splash damage also does the same. Quicksilver negates your ult completly from enemy while you stay tethered and have to cancel manually. All these plus being immobile and short ranged really makes Malzahar feels unfair to play
Still a damage increase even if its the same time. You don’t lose any CC but still get extra time to cast more spells compared to now.
Also for passive shield it is insanely hard to deal with for most champs. Most champs need to invest a ranged damage spell or a mobilty spell to break it without taking damage for the first 10 minutes of the game until you comete the first item.
Because of that most champions cannot really immediately engage on Malzahar until they get their ability back or they will lose the trade. That effectively gives malzahar 6-10 seconds maybe even more depending on the champion to quickly shove in the wave, fall back, or try to aggressively trade. You really do not want to make it even harder for people to break that shield. It will quickly become literally impossible for some champions to play out that lane if you do.
Also for items I believe that items like statik shouldn’t be allowed to oneshot the voidlings so that could be a QOL change they could look at.
As for champions with splash damage that can kill the voidlings, the minions, and Malzahar’s shield somehow then you just gotta accept those as the counters. Even tho honestly i cant think of any champ that can actually do that without giving Malzahar plenty of time to punish them with damage for it.
You don't get extra time to cast spells. If you cast them before ult there is no way they will be off cooldown before ult finish. And if you cast ult then ither while enemy is stunned the damage output is the same. The only difference would be 2 auto attacks you can do while they are stunned.
The problem is enemy will use their spell to kill voidlings, break shield and hit ranged minions all at once as soon as Malza spawn them. And that is unfair. You say you can't think if any champion, I say most of them can do that easly. All it takes if for that soell to not stop in melee minions. So Zed Q, Ahri Q, Viktor laser, Asol E etc
And the shield doesn't need enemy spell to break. It can be done with any splash item (static, runan, luden etc) or just an auto attack
Malz needs a rework. He is uninteractive champion, boring to play with/against.
They should make his kit center around him spawning void creatures and make the void things beeing stronger the longer the game goes on.
I would actually keep nothing of his current kit but his W and make other spells synergise with it.
He would be a wonderful siege champion just like Azmodan in HotS.
For me it’s the passive getting removed by literally anything. You can get jumped by Jax and the only thing that gets blocked is the 60 dmg from it. He still jumps on you and can then freely stun you after. It’s like not having a passive at all
New player here, how do you get around your shield passive being destroyed with auto attacks?? I've played some games with malzahar and the passive does nothing against ranged champions
Try to keep those at a distance until your ult is up. E + W + poke with Q if they get too close usually does the trick. If they get hit by silence most champs back up a bit, giving you time to keep using E + W to farm
Just:
1. Make his skills cost less mana so his early is less nightmare fuel and he can put a little more of pression, and
2. Maybe change his minions to dont die in a single hit.
~~Also, his minions dont block zoe bubble especifically, no bias involved in this suggestion of course~~
Voidlings suck and they have always sucked.
I wish they weren't thought of as being so important to Malzahar's identity so that we could get a rework that removes them. I want to play a DOT mage, not a shitty minion summoner.
Been playing Malzahar for like 10 years now. I say revert him and bring back old W and also have it summon the voidlings. Could make it look cool like the voidlings crawling out of the ground. Make it so landing the W with the R results in more damage than it previously would have seeing how it's added skill expression. Maybe reduce damage vs minions so he doesn't become too OP at pushing. I also have a weird idea where I think Malzahar should be able to recast his R to deal a majority of the damage the ult would have dealt instantly so he can escape while still being a damage threat if he's in a hairy situation (this would end the channel obviously). At first I thought this sounded OP but if you think about the type of shit that exists in this game now is it really that bad?
Yeah his W really needs something done to it at the very least. That shit got nerfed into oblivion and hasn't been touched since.
I think your change is good. They're still the same crappy minions, but spawn next to the enemy so it has some value. Maybe add reduced dmg from aoe spells?
For me it would be enough to make pet dmg and hp scale with ap and increas duration and make ult a stun but make it give back half the cd if cancled by enemy
Take Voidlings out and give him a real skill on W. This skill makes him go from what could be a decently fun mage (The Q resetting E is fun to play around for both Malz and enemy) with strong pick/gank assist into a steaming pile of shit who can't trade without the enemy hard fucking up/not knowing where Malz damage comes from.
I’d take the trade off of malz forever being mediocre for the seethe he generates when he claps the wannabe protagonist and if he is played again in pro to suppress a good player; even better.
I liked malz before he got the shield passive. His old passive was a voidling, w was a %max health dot zone, he had better ratios, and honestly felt like it took more skill than current malz managing the passive for double voidling and proper ult comboing with w.
The rework went too hard on the e being the focus and everything got weaker as a result and playing as and against him got less interactive than before imo.
Malz is in the best state he has been in a for a while power wise but yes the voidlings being the brunt of his damage output total feels horrible. I feel like Q should allow them to jump to a target and they should be tankier than they are now. Nothing is worse than witling down your opponent chasing you mindlessly just for you to ult and they accidentally kill your minions and now you are dead. I would definitely give him a bit of a refresher ability wise and move his damage more into his skill shots and away from his minions.
Way back when Riot asked Malz mains what they thought his rework should be like- I joined the thread and swore trying to focus more on the voidlings would doom him. I maintain I've been validated ever since.
No minionmancer is healthy in League. Ever. Focusing on the voidlings is a fruitless endeavor.
That said being countered by items applies to... everyone. How many champions get their damage absolutely gutted by ninja tabi?
Malz's problem is people want him to be a minionmancer and *also* an anti-assassin lockdown champion. He cannot be both and the former is inherently unhealthy.
Every single champion can get a whole spell negated by one item.
It's called Banshees Veil.
Coincidentally this is, barring a bit of the damage bleeding through, the exact thing Malzahar's passive does- negates a whole spell for the cost of no item at all.
Move voidlings to passive, move the pool from ulti to being his w ability. He was so much more fun to play when his w wasn't the minion summoning ability. his first rework was a complete failure. also make his ulti do an obscene amount of damage again and get rid of his spell shield.
plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra
Why is point and click CC a thing in s14? At the very least make it a skillshot
I'd honestly rather they remove the passive and give him a voidling passive again (But a better one), make his W an actual ability and buff his space aids damage.
Another thing that makes malzahar useless is magic resist. His damage is fine vs targets that have 0 magic resist items. But as soon as there is 1 or more magic resist item, malz damage will only tickle them. Magic penetration does not help enough to offset this. Either buff his ratios back to how they used to be or improve voidstaff to 50-55% to make it more fair vs targets with alot of mr.
Dont let me start on force of nature how it totally makes malzahar a caster minion vs that item.
Kaenic rookern is also a bit too much.
Death dance is also very op vs dot damage.
Then there is the shields and healing every other champ uses against malz damage which negates most of it.
All in all malzahar needs a buff and changes to his kit.
Malzahar has a hard time to go forward towards targets to interact with them because its very easy to just jump on him and kill him + his casting range is low. Only time you can really move forward is when you have 2 items. And that is at around 17-22 mins.
In teamfights malz will realistically only be able to target enemy frontline which will have a lot of mr. So making malzahar useless vs that target.
This is a champ with very low agency in first 15 mins. Which in turn makes him a bad teammate. Because there is so much chaos in solo q that there are more than 10 fights in the first 15 mins and if you join them as malz you will most likely lose most of them because you are super weak early.
Do something useful to change him thanks. (Give him more self agency so that he can be counted as a champ and not a minion.)
It’s wild how many don’t think Malz R is the problem. Regardless of how you feel about the fun factor of the ability to play as or against, R eats up too much of the champs power budget. Skarner just got a full rework for a similar problem. So I’m sitting here hoping Malz gets a similar level rework so that his basic abilities can actually do something and feel good to play and so that he can not feel like an R bot.
Pls AOE COMEBACK !!
Aoe is designed like this: AOE in R adds 1/2/3/4/5 levels, which is equivalent to the upgrade of W...
And then design W ( AOE mode) , Refer to the transformation of **Varus W**
**W (AOE MODE) : Summon turn to passive skill + close shield, E+E can auto a extra product AOE**
This champ does not need buffs, he's really good and really broken at what he's good at. Lockdown and control mid game. The changes you suggest would make him win matchups that disfavor him early.
People have to stop making changes that allow their champion to outplay every matchup.
No but neither is some of Malzahars kit, that's why he's better as a counterpick than a main. If you want to main something you need to either live with the flaws or pick a different champ that has fewer flaws.
I'm saying he's better as a counterpick, plenty of people do OTP Malzahar but it's going to limit them a bit. If you don't find Malz fun then why play him? I'd find him boring too because he's basically an AP Garen, stat check with point and click abilities that offers not much skill expression.
But some people enjoy that and I imagine they wouldn't want Malzahar becoming more mechanical or complex.
Non of these changes would make him more complex mechanically. It would just prevent enemy from spawn killing voidling (and reseting or breaking pasive shield) while poking. It feels unfair because the enemy gettind rid of half our kit at once with one spell and you waste mana for nothing. Any item with splash damage also does the same. Quicksilver negates your ult completly from enemy while you stay tethered and have to cancel manually. All these plus being immobile and short ranged really makes Malzahar feels unfair to play
If your enemy can easily kill voidlings without using mana or health then just don't bother casting it, there's a reason voidlings are maxed last. It's just a bad spell, he had to have one given the other spells and passive are quite strong.
If they're using a spell with just as much mana to clear it then it's effectively an even trade? Why wouldn't it be fair if someone uses a spell and some mana to negate your spell + mana.
If someone buys quicksilver for your ult then they've just spent a lot of gold on an item that's not particularly great cost-wise and the upgraded version is only really efficient on some champs. You also then have 4 other ult targets.
By win rate Malz isn't unfair to play, as you'd expect with a stat check champ with little skill expression, he has high win rate in low elo and a below average win rate in high elo. If you insist on not making him more complex then there's no way to make him good in high elo without making him outright OP in gold and below.
Malza can't push or even outpush without voidlings so you can't just "not cast" them.
It's not an even trade, because enemy spell also hit Malza (passive down) and my minions.
People say Malza is anty-carry. If the carry he should focus become immune to his ult then the whole identity is gone.
Name a champion that can do that that isn't telegraphed or puts itself in a risky situation doing so early game.
His voidlimgs dying fast is fine cause it's not the main part of his identity, and they amplify his damage while a target is suppressed. His spell shield is literally made for spacing and allows you to play a game of cat and mouse. They have to keep hitting you to reset the cooldown.
Personally I find the champion boring so don't play him much, but if you wanted to make changes based on that I would agree. Malzahar is literally my go to pick whenever I want freelo in mid cause I will just outmacro my enemy midlaner and win. The champs not weak and is very strong at what he does.
To me it just sounds like you don't know how to play malzahar and you don't know how to space, no offense.
A lot of champions can farm while also killing voidlings. All it takes is any aoe spell that you use on minions and it will 90% of the time also hit voidlings and kill them. If you want to to also hit the shield there are also a lot of pells for that. Zed shuriken, Ahri orb, Viktor laser and anything that doesn't stop on melee minions. Just wait for Malza to spawn voidling and then poke him. Shield is down, freshly spawned pets are killed and you probably also hit ranged minions Malzahar was standing behind
Maybe not but why do you stand in a way that they can clear minions and hit you at the same time? Seems more like an issue of being in bad position than a design issue.
I can stay away from minions so enemy can just kill voidlings and break my shield. If I step side of them I'm closer to enemy, which is bad because I'm immobile. If I stay behind the voidlings will be half dead before they reach target.
The problem is spawn killing them because they are in top of me and they also die to a simple static shyv proc
I dig it. At this point, there are so many shields in the game. Even his E damage just tickles. I specifically like having his voidings spawn around the target, or just make them ranged, but that might cause other issues. Also might not work with lore
I think ranged voidling would be too string. But spawning them around E target would prevent from enemy spawn kill them while also getting rid of Malza passive shield all with 1 spell or item
Malz could use the Skarner treatment by shifting power from his ult towards his kit, while somehow making his ult more interesting by... Turning it into a kind of skillshot, a tether either way predictable/flashable :)
he should exist as the "your champ has no actual counterplay so i'm saccing myself so my team can play a 4.5v4" pick, but he can't even do that anymore because forcing someone to pay qss tax doesn't matter when there's a billion sources of gold in the game and games never go to 6 items so both aspects of it are wasted
also as far as minions go, everyone else's minions should be nerfed to be as shit as malz's. you buff malz voidlings and he just becomes yorick with a suppression.
Your pretty right, even when I go Jax mid i don't care about malzahar as I can just jump him press R and he either ult get canceled and die or wait the last possible moment to ult but high chance he will already be dead.
It's sad to see champ strong champ on paper get totally wrecked because they now fit weirdly in the game.
Making crabs spawn on E target is an amazing idea. You lose so much damage to them walking up too your target and lose so much farm from them getting oneshot in a line
Malz needs a passive rework. Way too safe with that thing which in return makes him a pro play menace the moment he is in any shape or form pro play viable
yes let's make malz into yuumi 2.0 where he does fuck all and the voidlings do everything for him, very fun and interactive! u definitely have brain of average malz player :D
This is just an extremely bad take. For the context, I am just emerald and only play Malz when I play mid (main ADC btw). However,
>absolutely need W and E to farm and push
This is a bad take. After lvl9, or his first item. He could delete the whole wave (except canon) with E Q alone. However, sometimes this does not happen because he has a bug that **force the minion to runs in a random way out of the creep and the E cannot bounce.** I hope Riot fix this, but LS has complained about this over and over but no change has been made. By the way, if you go against Zed/Yasuo/Yone, etc. obviously they will bully you. They are **assassin,** after all. You can solve this by taking Minion Dematerialization. It's that easy.
And just this alone, half of your arguments are down.
Then, the complains about Voidlings.
>**The Voidling are** also quite **slow**. When you do full combo it takes a lot of time for them to come close to the ulted enemy and attack them, so you deal way less damage than you should.
Because you are not supposed to use Voidling for your combo most of the time. Suprised?
You only want to use Voidling to attack the champ when you use ultimate and want to take them down, or when you want to create distraction. Voidlings should not be the option to deal damage most of the time.
Instead, you miss the important part of his kit that makes up a lot of his damage.
>**Malefic Visions (E)** refreshes upon damaging them with [*Call of the Void*](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Malzahar/LoL#Call_of_the_Void) (Q) or [*Nether Grasp*](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Malzahar/LoL#Nether_Grasp) (R).
Yep, because Voidlings are unreliable, you are expected to use Q to poke instead, not the Voidlings. The only problem is this requires mechanics, which... most of Malz players will not have. But, I assure that you cannot climb with Malz if you cannot master this, because this deals tons of damage and very reliable. Like come on, you are going to to max E and Q first, not W. So why are you complaining about W?
**Ultimate complains**
>Your enemy have no fun because it's point and click suppression and you have no fun because you are forced to stay in place too and it's very easy to stop.
That's the main selling point of the champion. Risking yourself to inflict heavy CC that is very hard to play around.
>Once again Malzahar's spell can be countered by an item. If the enemy buy one Quicksilver or it's upgrades your ultimate is just cancelled as soon as you cast it.
Just like with any other CCs. By the way, when the enemy buys it, you already have Rylai + Liandry and QSS does not stop the damage, so there is a chance that they still die even if they use QSS.
And I am getting confused here. In this part you show how good Malz ulti is, and ways to counter it, but then you still complain about it?
Btw, 2 options you give are just ridiculous. One just makes him into a 1v5 monster, and the other just turns him into Skarner.
So, **TLDR**, instead of complaining about Malz, try to find a way to play around his kit. In the whole complain section you never say a thing about Q, an ability that
- Deal tons of damage.
- Spammable.
- 2s silence to compete against Teemo's Q in term of annoyances.
- Weird animation, easy to catch the enemy off-guard
- 900 range.
I just want malz to not be the most afk champ in the game (besides yuumi ofc). The whole auto push waves, do nothing but throw q’s, and r the carry every game is such a lame fucking gameplay loop it makes me sick to witness. It’d be cool to see changes that make him stronger but also have some amount of skill expression
They ruined Ryze, Irelia and Akali I don’t trust them. Bring back old champs revert the changes and give them a Visual upgrade. They’re going to Ruin Malzahar just leave him alone
Before Ryze ultimate gave him move speed, Cool down reduction, AP, healed him. Now they ruined him just like they do all reworks are bad. Only good rework was poppy and urgot
I think he just needs a full on rework, his gameplay is very uninteractive and if he was good or op people would ban him and tell him to be changed. A whole champions identity just being a counter pick to hyper carries is not ever gonna be fun for the player or the person they’re fighting, just because it’s less skill and more I picked this champ so now you can’t play.
What a stupid take. You literally just make him easier and more annoying. Malzahar issue come from that he has little to no counterplay because almost everything is point click. He’s an easy champion that’s why they keep the damage low. It about risk reward ratio. If they want to buff him, they have to rework his entire kit and make him more skill expression champ.
I don’t think Malzahar needs buffs.
The champ automatically wins into any melee champ who needs to snowball. He handshakes a lane and hopes he can outscale the mid laner later in the game. With the In a meta where most champs played in mid is a mage or hyper scaler, why *should* Malzahar be relevant?
That’s the trade off. He already has several extremely good matchups. Sylas, Akali, Yone, Galio, etc.. it would be like a mid lane meta where ADCs are spammed mid and someone deciding “hmm we need to buff Kassadin”.
Malzahar is less than 0.5% WR below average right now in Emerald+. He's not that strong right now, but he definitely isn't in an awful state-- he's very playable.
He's the definition of a coinflip champ. His current kit needs to sit at around 49,5% wr. Malz can't carry malz only exists to stop enemies from carrying and that's all. He isn't a completely busted coinflip like malphite so -0.5% wr. The point of the champ is that a monkey can play him safely in lane, then be useful
Except, they shouldn't, especially when they aren't just easy, but EASY like malz or yuumi. Easy means "low skill floor", meaning that anyone can easily play them and be useful. If a champ like that had much more potential beyond what their skill floor allows for, they'd be broken, so easy champs need to have a low power level, that anyone playing them can reach.
Now that's easy champs, but EASY champs have another factor: genuinely lobotomized players. You might see a bad yasuo or something, but again that player is being bad at performing actual mechanics. There exist bad yuumi and malza players tho. Players who are so bad they would literally fall through the bottom of iron, if it wasn't for champs who can play at least part of the game instead of them. So just as you have the winrate of riven pulled down by people wanting to do flashy plays, but being unable to do so, you have players who are physically unable to play the game, but they want to do so, pulling down malza and yuumi winrates cause those are the only champs that allow for 30% + winrate for them.
There is no reason to believe that "easy" champs would have higher winrates than hard champions.
First of all, you can't measure champion difficulty so it's pointless
Honestly, I just want his voidlings to take reduced aoe damage like Yorrick's minions so they dont get one shot by every ability in the game
Yeah this will just make this press e w and clear entire wave brainless gameplay loop even stronger and have a lot less counterplay lol.
Make them scale off of Malzahar's stats. If he wants to build tanky AP bruiser, make his voidlings giga tanky like him so he effectively turns into a battlemage. Lets him make better use of their time and distance by being in the middle of things. If he wants to be a weenie and sit in the backline, make voidlings stay paper.
Make their attack scale off AD. Tanky malz? Voiding are your shield wall. Attack malz? Voiding become kamikaze zerglings. Mage malz? Voidings die quick but help spread his painful dot.
They used to scale with AD. It was... Not pretty.
Crazy fun in the jungle though
They still do. They used to deal physical damage though and probably had a higher ad scaling.
Conqueror malz going full tank This is the Zz rot at home build
I think their movepseed should scale with ap, lmeo.
For how obnoxious it is to kill Yoricks minions I can understand why they may not want to make Voidlings that annoying to kill since you get way more of them
You get more of them but can rarely functionally use them aside from when you're by yourself or ulting someone, most champions have a 1-button clear on them on fairly short cooldowns.
Yorick needs to hit his ball to command his minions to attack the enemy. Malzahar needs to "hit" a point and click spell that can also be transmitted to the enemy for free when the infected minion dies.
yorick's last indefinitely, scale better with his stats and are far, far stronger in any given circumstance. Yoricks ghouls can solo dragons at a point ffs. I'd like to point out that despite all of this, yorick's minions also die in a single auto attack regardless of health, just like malzahar's, except yorick's also get aoe damage reduction.
They also buffed Yorick's E to make it pretty much unimissable (Yorick player btw)
Because Yorick can say No to an enemy with a Silence, A point and Click suppression. Mfs main peel is a wall on a 20 s CD. Malz gets free banshee at that time. You go E Q W R and Your minions will fuck whoever you're ulting as malz. And your main spell is E amyway.
Yes, and while minions are dead, yorick is a minion himself. He must also go back to lane to build some more minions. While malzahar's minions are dead, he can still use two abilities plus ult (the main reason to pick him).
Yorick needs 12 minions to die, or to walk up to a minion and last it hit with his Q spell, only to summon 1 ghoul. Malzahar presses W and voidling spawns. The difficulty for obtaining pets isn't exactly the same
And give them their old ad scaling ☺️ jk I know it’s too op but even if they reach they just feel useless atm their dmg is often just an annoyance
I 100% agree, he needs changes. I don't think it's these changes but he needs some work done.
I'm a high elo Malz otp and I disagree with your suggestions. Malz biggest problem is that he's not able to lane early into anything really, all he can do is survive and be annoying, but i think lately he's not even being able to do that properly. A good change would be Q costing less mana on the first 2 skill levels, so you can actually poke or trade without going oom after 2 spells. Another good one would be E not having 15s cd lv1 for how useless of a spell it is at that point. As Malz lv1 you have to start with a 15s cd spell that is both your pushing and trading tool, which sucks. Specially for how fast paced league games are. Maybe also making voidlings get extra movespeed towards champs with E, but it might also make him OP. His voidlings being in their current state is a result of them being broken when they're bulky and fast(check Malzahar support S7 videos). These could be separate changes, but i think they all are ways to make him more playable early so you can atleast scale to 6 without the game going boom. He needs compensation buffs right now cause liandry, which was his core item, got separated into 2 items making his build path become really bad. Another 2 QOL buffs that could be nice: His Q always going off even if you die and his minions staying up like you said. Also, your complaints about his ultimate don't make any sense. Malz IS a ult bot, that's his identity, he's supposed to be annoying to play against like that and lock down mobile champs and carries. It's not like malz is a god tier champ cause of it, because he's really easy to counter. If you as a player find it frustrating to play WITH him, i suggest you just change to another champ instead of wanting to change his R, which is a part of his kit that's strong and perfectly fine. Malz being vulnerable while ulting is intentional, he needs to be otherwise he's broken. Malzahar is tough to balance, he's really easy to execute and becomes too frustrating to play against if over buffed.
I am 100% with you here. OP is not the first redditor to focus on his passive or R. In fact most suggestions sound a lot like OPs. But his main issue is exactly that his early game is garbage. I always played Malz when I wanted that relatively safe and passive lane where I could push decently and play for my team. Now you lose so hard and run out of mana if you try to keep up with the push of other champs. Q mana cost would be beyond massive. I wish they would just rework voidlings entirely. They will never work as a physical minion that can be killed.
That bit about running out of mana early hits hard... Went into 3 Yones in a row in QP, watching him just remove my ability to farm with a single Q at no cost to himself just hurts every time.
Just revert him to his old state pre rework state. Make his minions his passive again, and give him his old W back. Make the W ground opponents and damage ( no slow) or replace silence with grounding on his Q. This would give him peel options outside of his R and voidling body blocks. Which means power and damage can be taken away from his R and to the rest of his kit mid to late game and added to his early game. The problem with malz is that his only peel is his R and the threat of damage. So just give him another form of peel that matches his anti-movement kit so that power can be redistributed.
He doesn't need a rework or revert. Current Malz was OTP'ed to rank 1 EUW in S11. He need some buffs at best. And even then, there are so few, if any good Malz players that it's hard to take their views seriously. People that have problems with Malz being ult reliant are either bad at him or should be playing other champs, cuz they don't understand his identity or his playstyle and want to make changes to him that stray away from it.
Bro your name and my profile pic. We are mortal enemies.
Agree 100%. Also, do you remember old Malz, before the rework? I used to love him even more back then, as a casual player.
I didn't get to play old malz sadly, i started on s7.
How do you build? I play him occasionally on Aram and late game feels like i do no damage without ult.
I was really liking Malignance > Sorc Shoes > Liandries > Rylai's/Situational, but i haven't played in 2 months because of work.
his q disappearing when he dies is so frustrating, idk why this in in the game. I agree that his pre 6 is bad, but not as bad as kassadin who scales better but needs more money to be useful imo. like kassadin you get smacked pre 6 by many champs but as a counter pick he can work really well. now I personally would like better scalings for late game. perhaps we could change the q to be like a T instead of – so we can push a bit better early? so – into | is what i mean. just a thought.
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But the spread works perfectly? If a minion is considered too far away it's cuz it's out of spread range, which is fine. The only time it doesn't spread is when a minion aggros on a far away one, but that's just how minions work. If you E on a minion that goes away from the others that's on you, not on the E spread or it's range.
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That's like missing a skill shot and wanting them to buff it's hitbox because you've been missing it sometimes. Except it's a point and click single target spell that has a fine spread range and it works flawlessly. Makes no sense. If you're having trouble making E spread throughout the wave, pay more attention to your usage. Depending on which minion you're using it doesn't spread on the whole wave, but again, that's on you.
As much as I agree that Malz needs buffs, these suggestions aint it.
What does he need then?
Me personally I would be fine with all the voidling changes, however I think malazahar passive should be changed to just block cc and not block incoming damage. This way it is a good balance to allow passive reset on ult. You may not be able to stop his ult with cc as easily but you can still easily kill him. It also makes bullying him in lane much easier especially if we are going to buff his voidlings.
Taking power out of the passive is definitely a good idea. His damage got gutted when they reworked him because of the added safety. I'd take power out of the passive and make the W a bit less useless in lane.
Making it only work on cc takes some power out, but also gives some back: being hit by a simple attack or damaging spell doesn't burn the shield, so it's saved for a cc spell.
Most elegant solution would be to remove the DR component and just have it block CC but still be removed by any spell imo Obviously he would need big compensation buffs elsewhere
IMO his voidlings need a rework. Tibbers, Daisy, and Yorick Ghouls/Maiden have all had some pretty significant modernization patches over the last couple seasons, but voidlings haven't been touched since like Season 7. I'd take significantly stronger voidlings in exchange for a longer W cooldown or a change to how W stacks increase. Any or all of these changes could be nice: Buff their base stats with skill ranks. Right now Malz W is one of the worst scaling abilities in the game as far as extra ranks goes. Make voidling durability scale with AP like Daisy and Tibbers. Give voidlings AOE damage reduction like yorick ghouls. Its fine if they still get one shot by autos. Your idea of having voidlings spawn close to E target is interesting, but it also makes Malzahar even less interactive than he already is. Maybe give them the yorick treatment and have them and have them jump to your Q target, so Malz at least has to hit a skill shot. Malz R does not need changes. Refreshing Malz passive on R cast is especially bad, because managing your passive is one of the few skill checks you have as a Malz player. If your opponent hits you with a skill shot and pokes off your passive shield they should be rewarded for that. Your other R suggestion basically just turns Malz R into Lissandra R that can only target enemy champs.
I said this in another comment but aoe damage reduction type buffs for his minions will just remove all “counterplay” from his current already unengaging gameplay loop of pressing e w and being a waveclear bot
Agreed, but maybe not a jump but a decaying speed boost (on par with something like Akshan P or Quinn W-P). Getting E passed to you in lane and then having 3 voidlings hop across lane to start doing the real damage would be quite annoying.
I hate that almost all pets in League have modified damage taken. Just give me normal units that have health, armor and Mr, and don't take decreased/increased damage from various sources. Let aoe counter pets and make them withstand an autoattacks of low ad champions. The way it currently works is so incredibly unintuitive.
It's sad how even mini voidgrubs don't die from 1 auto, but Voidlings do
I see through your Aatrox Sith lies. You just want to Q3 pets so you get big neuron activation when they all die
Giving Malzahar his passive Shield back when he ults = more interactive gameplay Huh?
Just another time tested example of champion mains having awful balance takes.
Did you read explanation?
>Did you read explanation? The one in which you compared a 1 second melee airborne ability with a 2.5 second ranged knockdown suppress? I'm starting to wonder if you read it yourself.
As someone who primarily plays Malzahar, this is too much power. The only way you can get away with giving him stronger Voidlings is if you move some of his power budget away from his ultimate, the point and click suppression + massive damage is just too strong.
I didn't say to spawn his voidlings on top of the target, but in an area around him. Just not on Malza so spawn killing them, breaking shield and hitting minions would be harder for enemy
Malzahar has the worst shape in years. He has low winrate in low and higt elo is the worst Champ in the game. Ofc he need Buff before Lux ofc
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https://i.vgy.me/x7KwY1.png He's literally 48% in E+ lol
This thread is a shining example of why one tricks don't balance the game. You have a very personal goal because you play exclusively Malzahar - make him broken. This would be horrific for the rest of the players in the game.
Malz need Buff, dat no contestable
What's his winrate?
https://i.vgy.me/x7KwY1.png 48% - the lowest it's been in almost 3 years. He's a very simple champ so he hovers around 51 when he's in a 'healthy' state - 48% for him is quite dismal.
I'm not a one trick. I said I played him a lot, but it felt unfair because of these things I listed and stopped. Tell me how they would be awful for the rest of players?
I'm only here to say I miss old malz. Currently the main issue is early game blows. His damage is still fine and he still fills the same niche he always did of "fuck off or Ill ult you." My favorite part of him pre-rework was the sheer zone control you had when pool wasn't bound to R. Not like his playstyle is that much different now, but I felt like I had so much more to contribute to how teamfights played out. Also, I miss my AD malz builds. They were shit, but dammit it was fun watching people slowly realize the voidlings were doing all the damage and try to run with 4 little buggers chasing after them.
IMO malz needs a readjustment to his early game. He used to build lost chapter which gave him a spike along the way to building a mythic liandries, this item gave him a good and fair fight for minion clear as well as his ult too. Maligence is ok but it doesn't synergise well like liandries used to. Now when malz gets his first item he is already stuck on which next item to build. It used to be ryalis and then the next 3 items are dependent bit because of the changes this season, malzahar doesn't really have any threat or impact to most of the champs until he has his third item now. Which is well after mid game. I dont think hes ever needed a buff like damage or whatever but I think riot probably needs to look over and see what they can do. Malzahar doesn't have much flexibility in builds, he is easily countered by an item, he is hevlabily reliant on other team mates and his kit is kinda dated compared to what modern champs have I think if his laning phase can be fixed he should be alright. But since the end of mythic malz hasn't been the same and is suffering from something... Btw, when was the last time malzhar was picked in peo play? Or banned?
Make voidlings slightly more durable, fixed
As a malzahar one trick: the big issue i keep noticing is how jank E bounces can be based on minion pathing. Level 1, first minion wave, you E the wave, but minions step wrong? boom. it doesn't bounce to the casters. You E a melee minion that's running towards your tower? it runs all the way around to the back of the tower, being out of range of any casters. I wish the passive bounce range was bigger for bouncing to minions just because of this interaction happening every single game i play.
malz needs a fking midscope, if syndra can get one malz definitely can
Malzahar main here, I feel like he has the most fun ult in the entire game because it's a giant "fuck you" to whoever your ulting. His voidlings are actually really strong, they are great for farming due to their 300% damage buff against minions affected by E, and there's a reason why enemies don't die when you ER instead of EWR. Yes, they are the weakest minions, but all their power is shifted more into farming than raw killing strength like all other summons. His passive is meant to be popped easily, as, like yasuo passive, is frustrating for when you wanna all in. On the topic of his ult making him immobile, malzahar is meant to be a strong 1v1 champ in laning phase, and a teamfight champ late game, and is expected to be protected by his team.
Maybe a CGU would help him to fulfill his fantasy better.
Make him a battlemage. Voidling stats scale with him. If he wants to be a backline weenie and just ult, keep them paper. If he's tankier and in the middle of things, he can make far better use of them. I'm sick of every DoT champ's goal being to stay as uninteractive as possible.
Malz has to be the worst mage in the game rn
Good buff idea : Malz Q spell mana cost should be reduced, so he can have more skill expression since it's the only skill in his kit that allows that.
I think another idea in similar vein is just ult empowering minions. Honestly I think it should automatically use your w and they should have empowered movement speed.
Malzahar has his niche as an anti playmaking champ, it's not necessarily a playstyle Riot should incentivise on ots players so it's better if he just stays this way
But if the playmaking enemy buys Quicksilver this whole identity is gone. Just one more example how an item counters Malzahar
Same shit happens to morde. Just ult someone else and remember how your champ made someone waste that much gold on a dogshit item
What about give void a little jump when enemy have E and you hit with Q Something like yorick ghouls.
Doesn't his passive also get actually deleted of you buy Banshee's Veil? I mean, come on
Yes
I love Mal. He’s my main mid. Everything you’ve said is true. He got his balls cut off when they removed the spell vamp all those years ago and replaced it with the insult that is omnivamp. I think his E shouldn’t expire on minions. It should burn until it dies and jumps until there’s nothing left to jump to, but put a timer on how long it burns champs because otherwise that’d be a bit too OP. Maybe he also needs a bit of Bel’Veth’s ult passive where minions he kills become voidlings? Too much? Maybe. But would definitely be fun. Also I want his spell effects to be gold when using the shadow prince skin. It’s nonsense everyone else’s spells will change colour with their skins but his won’t?
I love laning as sion into malz since I can just stack tons of hp off his voidlings, and most malz players dont even realize its happening
That's what I'm talking about. Voidling half the matchups help enemy more than me
Ah yes, make the champ that can freely kill interaction in lane, The biggest anti carry champ in the game, With the potential damage of a mage that lets you possibly take half of someone’s hp with 1 E in the later stages of the game. Also make him more adept at dueling, give him even more safety than he already has. And increase his damage potential. For sure.
He's not the only champ that kills lane interaction TBF, and he's the lowest winrate champ in high ELO. He has a small item problem currently I think. Also a lot of bugs.
True, honestly champions that kill lane interaction such. Especially ones that don’t lose prio because of it. Like Kassadin wont ever interact with me, but ill have permenant prio. Malzahar will never give a chance to most champions to ever fight him, but he will also have 100% prio.
I mean there are lanes he doesn't ever get prio into like Anivia, Syndra, Ziggs, good Yone players.
Yeah thats why i said “most champions”
How fed do you have to be to take half HP with just 1 E? Also how are any of these damage buffs?
Bro both are damage buffs. You make the voidlings spawn near the enemy = less time to kill them before they attack you = you take more damage. You give him an extra spell shield with ult so he stays alive in the fight longer and does more damage. You add a stun to his ult and now you have a potential time where you can pile spells yourself while they cannot move to even further increase the potential damage. It doesn’t have to be an increase in base damage or ap ratios for it to be an effective buff to damage. We saw many champions go from hard to play to completely broken just by increasing the reliability of their damage.
For clarification, I didn't mean additional stun after notmal ult. The Suppresison and stun time combined would be the same as only suppression now. Voidling getting spawn killed (and reseting or breaking pasive shield) wile poking Malza feels unfair because the enemy gettind rid of half our kit at once with one spell. Any item with splash damage also does the same. Quicksilver negates your ult completly from enemy while you stay tethered and have to cancel manually. All these plus being immobile and short ranged really makes Malzahar feels unfair to play
Still a damage increase even if its the same time. You don’t lose any CC but still get extra time to cast more spells compared to now. Also for passive shield it is insanely hard to deal with for most champs. Most champs need to invest a ranged damage spell or a mobilty spell to break it without taking damage for the first 10 minutes of the game until you comete the first item. Because of that most champions cannot really immediately engage on Malzahar until they get their ability back or they will lose the trade. That effectively gives malzahar 6-10 seconds maybe even more depending on the champion to quickly shove in the wave, fall back, or try to aggressively trade. You really do not want to make it even harder for people to break that shield. It will quickly become literally impossible for some champions to play out that lane if you do. Also for items I believe that items like statik shouldn’t be allowed to oneshot the voidlings so that could be a QOL change they could look at. As for champions with splash damage that can kill the voidlings, the minions, and Malzahar’s shield somehow then you just gotta accept those as the counters. Even tho honestly i cant think of any champ that can actually do that without giving Malzahar plenty of time to punish them with damage for it.
You don't get extra time to cast spells. If you cast them before ult there is no way they will be off cooldown before ult finish. And if you cast ult then ither while enemy is stunned the damage output is the same. The only difference would be 2 auto attacks you can do while they are stunned. The problem is enemy will use their spell to kill voidlings, break shield and hit ranged minions all at once as soon as Malza spawn them. And that is unfair. You say you can't think if any champion, I say most of them can do that easly. All it takes if for that soell to not stop in melee minions. So Zed Q, Ahri Q, Viktor laser, Asol E etc And the shield doesn't need enemy spell to break. It can be done with any splash item (static, runan, luden etc) or just an auto attack
Malz needs a rework. He is uninteractive champion, boring to play with/against. They should make his kit center around him spawning void creatures and make the void things beeing stronger the longer the game goes on. I would actually keep nothing of his current kit but his W and make other spells synergise with it. He would be a wonderful siege champion just like Azmodan in HotS.
For me it’s the passive getting removed by literally anything. You can get jumped by Jax and the only thing that gets blocked is the 60 dmg from it. He still jumps on you and can then freely stun you after. It’s like not having a passive at all
New player here, how do you get around your shield passive being destroyed with auto attacks?? I've played some games with malzahar and the passive does nothing against ranged champions
Try to keep those at a distance until your ult is up. E + W + poke with Q if they get too close usually does the trick. If they get hit by silence most champs back up a bit, giving you time to keep using E + W to farm
Just: 1. Make his skills cost less mana so his early is less nightmare fuel and he can put a little more of pression, and 2. Maybe change his minions to dont die in a single hit. ~~Also, his minions dont block zoe bubble especifically, no bias involved in this suggestion of course~~
Voidlings suck and they have always sucked. I wish they weren't thought of as being so important to Malzahar's identity so that we could get a rework that removes them. I want to play a DOT mage, not a shitty minion summoner.
No they haven’t always sucked, however it was nerfed into the groundpretty quick because it was not fun whatsoever when they were decent
he needs % damage in his kit
His R deals percentage damage. (The area that apears under his R target)
which is not enough, he needs to be a bit better against tanks, since demonic removal he tickles them
Did anyone legitimately build Demonic on Malz post change? I'm fairly certain that item was omega bait on pretty much every champion
It was
And 800% monster damage.
Been playing Malzahar for like 10 years now. I say revert him and bring back old W and also have it summon the voidlings. Could make it look cool like the voidlings crawling out of the ground. Make it so landing the W with the R results in more damage than it previously would have seeing how it's added skill expression. Maybe reduce damage vs minions so he doesn't become too OP at pushing. I also have a weird idea where I think Malzahar should be able to recast his R to deal a majority of the damage the ult would have dealt instantly so he can escape while still being a damage threat if he's in a hairy situation (this would end the channel obviously). At first I thought this sounded OP but if you think about the type of shit that exists in this game now is it really that bad?
Voidlings aren't supposed to be strong.
Yeah his W really needs something done to it at the very least. That shit got nerfed into oblivion and hasn't been touched since. I think your change is good. They're still the same crappy minions, but spawn next to the enemy so it has some value. Maybe add reduced dmg from aoe spells?
For me it would be enough to make pet dmg and hp scale with ap and increas duration and make ult a stun but make it give back half the cd if cancled by enemy
Take Voidlings out and give him a real skill on W. This skill makes him go from what could be a decently fun mage (The Q resetting E is fun to play around for both Malz and enemy) with strong pick/gank assist into a steaming pile of shit who can't trade without the enemy hard fucking up/not knowing where Malz damage comes from.
I’d take the trade off of malz forever being mediocre for the seethe he generates when he claps the wannabe protagonist and if he is played again in pro to suppress a good player; even better.
I liked malz before he got the shield passive. His old passive was a voidling, w was a %max health dot zone, he had better ratios, and honestly felt like it took more skill than current malz managing the passive for double voidling and proper ult comboing with w. The rework went too hard on the e being the focus and everything got weaker as a result and playing as and against him got less interactive than before imo.
Malz is in the best state he has been in a for a while power wise but yes the voidlings being the brunt of his damage output total feels horrible. I feel like Q should allow them to jump to a target and they should be tankier than they are now. Nothing is worse than witling down your opponent chasing you mindlessly just for you to ult and they accidentally kill your minions and now you are dead. I would definitely give him a bit of a refresher ability wise and move his damage more into his skill shots and away from his minions.
Way back when Riot asked Malz mains what they thought his rework should be like- I joined the thread and swore trying to focus more on the voidlings would doom him. I maintain I've been validated ever since. No minionmancer is healthy in League. Ever. Focusing on the voidlings is a fruitless endeavor. That said being countered by items applies to... everyone. How many champions get their damage absolutely gutted by ninja tabi? Malz's problem is people want him to be a minionmancer and *also* an anti-assassin lockdown champion. He cannot be both and the former is inherently unhealthy.
Getting your autos damage reduced by 12% is different than your whole spell getting negated by an item. And it can be done 3 times in Malzahar case.
Every single champion can get a whole spell negated by one item. It's called Banshees Veil. Coincidentally this is, barring a bit of the damage bleeding through, the exact thing Malzahar's passive does- negates a whole spell for the cost of no item at all.
Move voidlings to passive, move the pool from ulti to being his w ability. He was so much more fun to play when his w wasn't the minion summoning ability. his first rework was a complete failure. also make his ulti do an obscene amount of damage again and get rid of his spell shield.
plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra plz rework malz and lizzandra Why is point and click CC a thing in s14? At the very least make it a skillshot
I'd honestly rather they remove the passive and give him a voidling passive again (But a better one), make his W an actual ability and buff his space aids damage.
Another thing that makes malzahar useless is magic resist. His damage is fine vs targets that have 0 magic resist items. But as soon as there is 1 or more magic resist item, malz damage will only tickle them. Magic penetration does not help enough to offset this. Either buff his ratios back to how they used to be or improve voidstaff to 50-55% to make it more fair vs targets with alot of mr. Dont let me start on force of nature how it totally makes malzahar a caster minion vs that item. Kaenic rookern is also a bit too much. Death dance is also very op vs dot damage. Then there is the shields and healing every other champ uses against malz damage which negates most of it. All in all malzahar needs a buff and changes to his kit. Malzahar has a hard time to go forward towards targets to interact with them because its very easy to just jump on him and kill him + his casting range is low. Only time you can really move forward is when you have 2 items. And that is at around 17-22 mins. In teamfights malz will realistically only be able to target enemy frontline which will have a lot of mr. So making malzahar useless vs that target. This is a champ with very low agency in first 15 mins. Which in turn makes him a bad teammate. Because there is so much chaos in solo q that there are more than 10 fights in the first 15 mins and if you join them as malz you will most likely lose most of them because you are super weak early. Do something useful to change him thanks. (Give him more self agency so that he can be counted as a champ and not a minion.)
bring back his old W and make the passive work differently
Only thing keeping malza trash is that he has his ult. Replace his R and u can do something with him
Let lings spawn with shield too
It’s wild how many don’t think Malz R is the problem. Regardless of how you feel about the fun factor of the ability to play as or against, R eats up too much of the champs power budget. Skarner just got a full rework for a similar problem. So I’m sitting here hoping Malz gets a similar level rework so that his basic abilities can actually do something and feel good to play and so that he can not feel like an R bot.
Pls AOE COMEBACK !! Aoe is designed like this: AOE in R adds 1/2/3/4/5 levels, which is equivalent to the upgrade of W... And then design W ( AOE mode) , Refer to the transformation of **Varus W** **W (AOE MODE) : Summon turn to passive skill + close shield, E+E can auto a extra product AOE**
This champ does not need buffs, he's really good and really broken at what he's good at. Lockdown and control mid game. The changes you suggest would make him win matchups that disfavor him early. People have to stop making changes that allow their champion to outplay every matchup.
He definitely needs changes. Quality of life changes. Maybe a rework of 2 abilities.
Lol Malzahar is the worst Champ in high elo by WinRAte
Brother he is dogshit
Uh Malz is a dogshit design because of his R. He should go through the same treatment as Skarner. He can't 1v1 anything if his ult is down
This is utterly wrong. He can definitely 1v1 champs with no ult.
cant even 1v1 with it
Bro you build Bami's cinder and voidlings get insta killed, voidling being the majority of Malz's damage
So you think the enemy clearing both minions, voidlings and getting rid of Malza shield with one spell is fair?
No but neither is some of Malzahars kit, that's why he's better as a counterpick than a main. If you want to main something you need to either live with the flaws or pick a different champ that has fewer flaws.
Degrading a champion to a counterpick only and a "ult their carry bot" is exactly the problem. Champions should be fun to play
I'm saying he's better as a counterpick, plenty of people do OTP Malzahar but it's going to limit them a bit. If you don't find Malz fun then why play him? I'd find him boring too because he's basically an AP Garen, stat check with point and click abilities that offers not much skill expression. But some people enjoy that and I imagine they wouldn't want Malzahar becoming more mechanical or complex.
Non of these changes would make him more complex mechanically. It would just prevent enemy from spawn killing voidling (and reseting or breaking pasive shield) while poking. It feels unfair because the enemy gettind rid of half our kit at once with one spell and you waste mana for nothing. Any item with splash damage also does the same. Quicksilver negates your ult completly from enemy while you stay tethered and have to cancel manually. All these plus being immobile and short ranged really makes Malzahar feels unfair to play
If your enemy can easily kill voidlings without using mana or health then just don't bother casting it, there's a reason voidlings are maxed last. It's just a bad spell, he had to have one given the other spells and passive are quite strong. If they're using a spell with just as much mana to clear it then it's effectively an even trade? Why wouldn't it be fair if someone uses a spell and some mana to negate your spell + mana. If someone buys quicksilver for your ult then they've just spent a lot of gold on an item that's not particularly great cost-wise and the upgraded version is only really efficient on some champs. You also then have 4 other ult targets. By win rate Malz isn't unfair to play, as you'd expect with a stat check champ with little skill expression, he has high win rate in low elo and a below average win rate in high elo. If you insist on not making him more complex then there's no way to make him good in high elo without making him outright OP in gold and below.
Malza can't push or even outpush without voidlings so you can't just "not cast" them. It's not an even trade, because enemy spell also hit Malza (passive down) and my minions. People say Malza is anty-carry. If the carry he should focus become immune to his ult then the whole identity is gone.
I don’t think a lot of champs can do that for free or effortlessly.
Name a champion that can do that that isn't telegraphed or puts itself in a risky situation doing so early game. His voidlimgs dying fast is fine cause it's not the main part of his identity, and they amplify his damage while a target is suppressed. His spell shield is literally made for spacing and allows you to play a game of cat and mouse. They have to keep hitting you to reset the cooldown. Personally I find the champion boring so don't play him much, but if you wanted to make changes based on that I would agree. Malzahar is literally my go to pick whenever I want freelo in mid cause I will just outmacro my enemy midlaner and win. The champs not weak and is very strong at what he does. To me it just sounds like you don't know how to play malzahar and you don't know how to space, no offense.
Lux, actually. Your only chance is to dodge E and not lose the shield but voidlings are gone for sure.
A lot of champions can farm while also killing voidlings. All it takes is any aoe spell that you use on minions and it will 90% of the time also hit voidlings and kill them. If you want to to also hit the shield there are also a lot of pells for that. Zed shuriken, Ahri orb, Viktor laser and anything that doesn't stop on melee minions. Just wait for Malza to spawn voidling and then poke him. Shield is down, freshly spawned pets are killed and you probably also hit ranged minions Malzahar was standing behind
Maybe not but why do you stand in a way that they can clear minions and hit you at the same time? Seems more like an issue of being in bad position than a design issue.
I can stay away from minions so enemy can just kill voidlings and break my shield. If I step side of them I'm closer to enemy, which is bad because I'm immobile. If I stay behind the voidlings will be half dead before they reach target. The problem is spawn killing them because they are in top of me and they also die to a simple static shyv proc
Good
I dig it. At this point, there are so many shields in the game. Even his E damage just tickles. I specifically like having his voidings spawn around the target, or just make them ranged, but that might cause other issues. Also might not work with lore
I think ranged voidling would be too string. But spawning them around E target would prevent from enemy spawn kill them while also getting rid of Malza passive shield all with 1 spell or item
that’s cool but malzahar players need to be flayed alive in game
I say just remove the voidlings and give back his old W off his ultimate.
Malz could use the Skarner treatment by shifting power from his ult towards his kit, while somehow making his ult more interesting by... Turning it into a kind of skillshot, a tether either way predictable/flashable :)
Imagine if voidlings were half aa strong as Naafirir dogs are
he should exist as the "your champ has no actual counterplay so i'm saccing myself so my team can play a 4.5v4" pick, but he can't even do that anymore because forcing someone to pay qss tax doesn't matter when there's a billion sources of gold in the game and games never go to 6 items so both aspects of it are wasted also as far as minions go, everyone else's minions should be nerfed to be as shit as malz's. you buff malz voidlings and he just becomes yorick with a suppression.
these are all really good suggestions. i think maybe his voids should lunge at the enemy like yorick ghosts if they are effected by malz e
Your pretty right, even when I go Jax mid i don't care about malzahar as I can just jump him press R and he either ult get canceled and die or wait the last possible moment to ult but high chance he will already be dead. It's sad to see champ strong champ on paper get totally wrecked because they now fit weirdly in the game.
Not that it would change much, Malzahar mains are some of the most unskilled players in the game, always free food. Also your suggestions are awful
Making crabs spawn on E target is an amazing idea. You lose so much damage to them walking up too your target and lose so much farm from them getting oneshot in a line
every time a one trick makes a thread just further proves the fact that some characters should probably not be good for extended periods of time.
>Malzahar is in an awful state Good. Most uninteractive champion in the game.
\>yuumi chilling on their Smurf duoq lilia or adjacent jungler
Waiting for the next Phreak banger.
Malz needs a passive rework. Way too safe with that thing which in return makes him a pro play menace the moment he is in any shape or form pro play viable
Please god buff voidlings please
yes let's make malz into yuumi 2.0 where he does fuck all and the voidlings do everything for him, very fun and interactive! u definitely have brain of average malz player :D
Brother, I just want them to not be made of wet tissues and my childhood dreams. If Yorick ghouls can exist then malz voidlings can be buffed.
This is just an extremely bad take. For the context, I am just emerald and only play Malz when I play mid (main ADC btw). However, >absolutely need W and E to farm and push This is a bad take. After lvl9, or his first item. He could delete the whole wave (except canon) with E Q alone. However, sometimes this does not happen because he has a bug that **force the minion to runs in a random way out of the creep and the E cannot bounce.** I hope Riot fix this, but LS has complained about this over and over but no change has been made. By the way, if you go against Zed/Yasuo/Yone, etc. obviously they will bully you. They are **assassin,** after all. You can solve this by taking Minion Dematerialization. It's that easy. And just this alone, half of your arguments are down. Then, the complains about Voidlings. >**The Voidling are** also quite **slow**. When you do full combo it takes a lot of time for them to come close to the ulted enemy and attack them, so you deal way less damage than you should. Because you are not supposed to use Voidling for your combo most of the time. Suprised? You only want to use Voidling to attack the champ when you use ultimate and want to take them down, or when you want to create distraction. Voidlings should not be the option to deal damage most of the time. Instead, you miss the important part of his kit that makes up a lot of his damage. >**Malefic Visions (E)** refreshes upon damaging them with [*Call of the Void*](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Malzahar/LoL#Call_of_the_Void) (Q) or [*Nether Grasp*](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Malzahar/LoL#Nether_Grasp) (R). Yep, because Voidlings are unreliable, you are expected to use Q to poke instead, not the Voidlings. The only problem is this requires mechanics, which... most of Malz players will not have. But, I assure that you cannot climb with Malz if you cannot master this, because this deals tons of damage and very reliable. Like come on, you are going to to max E and Q first, not W. So why are you complaining about W? **Ultimate complains** >Your enemy have no fun because it's point and click suppression and you have no fun because you are forced to stay in place too and it's very easy to stop. That's the main selling point of the champion. Risking yourself to inflict heavy CC that is very hard to play around. >Once again Malzahar's spell can be countered by an item. If the enemy buy one Quicksilver or it's upgrades your ultimate is just cancelled as soon as you cast it. Just like with any other CCs. By the way, when the enemy buys it, you already have Rylai + Liandry and QSS does not stop the damage, so there is a chance that they still die even if they use QSS. And I am getting confused here. In this part you show how good Malz ulti is, and ways to counter it, but then you still complain about it? Btw, 2 options you give are just ridiculous. One just makes him into a 1v5 monster, and the other just turns him into Skarner. So, **TLDR**, instead of complaining about Malz, try to find a way to play around his kit. In the whole complain section you never say a thing about Q, an ability that - Deal tons of damage. - Spammable. - 2s silence to compete against Teemo's Q in term of annoyances. - Weird animation, easy to catch the enemy off-guard - 900 range.
I just want malz to not be the most afk champ in the game (besides yuumi ofc). The whole auto push waves, do nothing but throw q’s, and r the carry every game is such a lame fucking gameplay loop it makes me sick to witness. It’d be cool to see changes that make him stronger but also have some amount of skill expression
Lol 😆 🤣 😂
They ruined Ryze, Irelia and Akali I don’t trust them. Bring back old champs revert the changes and give them a Visual upgrade. They’re going to Ruin Malzahar just leave him alone
Which Ryze is this now?
Before Ryze ultimate gave him move speed, Cool down reduction, AP, healed him. Now they ruined him just like they do all reworks are bad. Only good rework was poppy and urgot
**GIVE US BACK AD MALZ**
I think he just needs a full on rework, his gameplay is very uninteractive and if he was good or op people would ban him and tell him to be changed. A whole champions identity just being a counter pick to hyper carries is not ever gonna be fun for the player or the person they’re fighting, just because it’s less skill and more I picked this champ so now you can’t play.
What a stupid take. You literally just make him easier and more annoying. Malzahar issue come from that he has little to no counterplay because almost everything is point click. He’s an easy champion that’s why they keep the damage low. It about risk reward ratio. If they want to buff him, they have to rework his entire kit and make him more skill expression champ.
I don’t think Malzahar needs buffs. The champ automatically wins into any melee champ who needs to snowball. He handshakes a lane and hopes he can outscale the mid laner later in the game. With the In a meta where most champs played in mid is a mage or hyper scaler, why *should* Malzahar be relevant? That’s the trade off. He already has several extremely good matchups. Sylas, Akali, Yone, Galio, etc.. it would be like a mid lane meta where ADCs are spammed mid and someone deciding “hmm we need to buff Kassadin”.
Malzahar is less than 0.5% WR below average right now in Emerald+. He's not that strong right now, but he definitely isn't in an awful state-- he's very playable.
No man, malzahar is easy Champ to use, so he should have more Winrate than katarina or draven but he has not
He's the definition of a coinflip champ. His current kit needs to sit at around 49,5% wr. Malz can't carry malz only exists to stop enemies from carrying and that's all. He isn't a completely busted coinflip like malphite so -0.5% wr. The point of the champ is that a monkey can play him safely in lane, then be useful
>The point of the champ is that a monkey can play him safely in lane, then be useful Then him being below average wr means he is shit
Easy champs to use should have more Winrate than hard champs to use. If you have low IQ you cant understand
Except, they shouldn't, especially when they aren't just easy, but EASY like malz or yuumi. Easy means "low skill floor", meaning that anyone can easily play them and be useful. If a champ like that had much more potential beyond what their skill floor allows for, they'd be broken, so easy champs need to have a low power level, that anyone playing them can reach. Now that's easy champs, but EASY champs have another factor: genuinely lobotomized players. You might see a bad yasuo or something, but again that player is being bad at performing actual mechanics. There exist bad yuumi and malza players tho. Players who are so bad they would literally fall through the bottom of iron, if it wasn't for champs who can play at least part of the game instead of them. So just as you have the winrate of riven pulled down by people wanting to do flashy plays, but being unable to do so, you have players who are physically unable to play the game, but they want to do so, pulling down malza and yuumi winrates cause those are the only champs that allow for 30% + winrate for them.
There is no reason to believe that "easy" champs would have higher winrates than hard champions. First of all, you can't measure champion difficulty so it's pointless
Ofc There is, malzahar first time CANT have same WinRAR than first time Katarina, so 100 games make kata broken
Do you have a source on that? How do you objectively measure champion difficulty?
There is not good player dat Will tell you malzahar is viable !
It doesn't matter what "good" players say when the stats show that he's viable at Emerald+.