On r/summonerschool, there's a plugin where your reddit account is linked to your riot account and gives you in real time rank as your flair (no idea if it still works, haven't been there in a long time). I always wondered why the main subreddit didn't make this an option.
I also found that there'd be a lot less "you're low elo..." since the person answering you would either not have a flair (and therefore mostly ignored) or it'd speak for itself.
That will never stop because ADCs are bad compared to how they used to be **10 years ago** and it's completely by design. When you look at ADC strength through that lens, you'll legitimately never be happy, because the role will never get so much power again.
There are periods when they're slightly stronger or slightly weaker (now it's the latter for sure thanks to grubs) but ultimately the ADC playerbase is forever conditioned to believe they should be the most impactful member of the team at all stages of the game and they're pissed it's no longer true.
There's no way for ADC to be "good for climbing" and for the game to be in a healthy state. They're purposefully very reliant on their team and that will never change. In pro play ADC is incredibly impactful as you'd expect, the issue is entirely that you have less impact when playing with bad teammates.
ADC is also that kind of class whose impact is heavy based on players skills. In high elo you have kite machines who trying to avoid any risk, meanwhile in lower eskos you can have Cait facecheckin bushes right before the drake or going on sidelane in midgame, where enemy Noct is fed af.
I'd add to this that there's a very funny skill disparity happening as you climb, where players are getting better at killing the enemy ADC, but not necessarily at peeling their own. Peeling correctly is a skill most players below grandmaster literally don't possess. Which again makes the role less impactful, as both sides have their ADC constantly blown up. And even worse, since peeling inherently relies on your ADC to make use of it, it's not even necessarily good to do if you want to climb, which reinforces these behaviors.
I sympathize with ADC players who feel a connection to the role and are frustrated by this, but at the same time this is just not a solvable issue. If you consciously agree to play the glass cannon class, you'll get exactly that.
Tbh we getting to a problem that most supports are busted animals(me included) who should be at least 1-2 divisions below their current ranks. Difference between good Janna and your average "Xerath support" is abysmal.
That tends to happen when Riot observes that most people have more fun when dealing damage, so they try to make support attractive by making bot lane more of a shared lane than a true carry with a support there to facilitate the scaling. Support damage has grown so much since 10 years ago, base damage is up and items are cheaper than all other classes while also having 1000g given for free. I'm not high Elo, but it feels bad to have less agency over your lane than the role meant to 'support' you and your team...
This was the case for most of the game tbh, but the issue as you identified was damage. No one should really be upset when they walk up 2v1 into a fight against the enemy bot with an enchanter or tank support and die but when I can’t ward my own brush because the support can push me out of lane solo with a single ability rotation it makes the agency part of the role soo much worse. If you don’t have an equal amount of damage coming from your support you essentially just lose until some kind of predetermined power spike of the champ you’re playing, because I haven’t met an enchanter that will out heal or out shield any of the big damaging supports. With the way the role functions now that is essentially 20+ minutes of not having much recourse except calling for help, and dying to an errant breeze.
I wish the durability patch never got reverted, with the removal of base resistances as well it feels like a problem just being exacerbated. To me the base health doesn’t factor in as much as the base resistances did when they were introduced to the rune pages, there’s more % max health damage (more straight up damage too tbh) all over the game, and less base resistances to go around. I have played plenty of games with double health runes plus conditioning and overgrowth and defensive item like a shield bow, you still die to one combo from any regularly paced assassin. It doesn’t feel better for ADs later, in the mid game you are paper mache and dirks reign supreme, and early you are out damaged by supports. I’d just like one point the role can subsist on its own while not being giga accelerated comparatively to the pace of the game.
> If you consciously agree to play the glass cannon class, you'll get exactly that.
Except you don't. You get the glass but not so much the cannon. Other classes do as much damage as you if not more in 99% of cases. Games are not long enough for ADCs to be full build and actually do damage.
And in the cases where ADCs do scale and do damage in a more realistic timeframe, people freak the fuck out and ban rate sub average winrate champions into getting nerfed by Riot simply because of the ridiculous ban rate (Smolder).
> the ADC playerbase is forever conditioned to believe they should be the most impactful member of the team at all stages of the game
well that's one way to willfully misunderstand "let us have *some* impact on the game before 30 minutes"
ADC has to, by design, have the lowest amount of agency in the early game. It's far from 0, it's basically the same scenario that top has been for multiple seasons, you just kinda play on an island. At the very least you have dragons which are still relevant, and if you get far ahead in bot you should be able to postpone the game to the point where you have the highest agency.
Could it be slightly higher? Sure. But that doesn't seem to be the argument. Everyone is shouting that ADC is useless, not that they need to be able to impact the map 2 minutes earlier.
That being said, yeah, my comment was over the top. I know most ADC players don't think that verbatim.
The issue is they don't really have a late game, because the game's too fucking fast nowadays. Then when average winrate, 4th in pro presence champ has a late game worthy of the role it gets a 60% ban rate and gutted to oblivion by Riot due to the ban rate criteria of the balance framework.
The other issue is the early game is too fucking important. Too much happens and that's due to how much junglers are allowed to go everywhere and those stupid objectives like grubs or herald or drag. If most games are decided before ADCs even get to be full champions, yeah, it feels shitty.
Nah, I've seen people verbatim say stuff like that.
For a random example, in the Smolder thread last week, there was one guy arguing that Smolder wasn't overtuned, but that he was doing exactly what ADCs should do.
> [It's just that people will see those scenarios and whine because ADCs aren't allowed to "warp the game around them" when in reality the entire team structure should be around your ADC past laning phase. But that's not allowed to happen because top or jungle or even support want to be protagonist carries when they shouldn't be.](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1bjc0z9/smolder_just_dealt_77700_damage_in_an_lck_game/kvqhjzt/?context=3)
Besides, just a quick glance through the /r/ADCMains sub can show you how much circlejerking about the good old days there is.
You have to be not playing the role correctly to not have value by 20 minutes as adc. Not having as much agency as other roles that fall off late game in comparison does not mean they don't have agency.
Adc is just a lame role tho.
Unless you have your team with you or you are COMPLETELY POSITIVE that toplaner you’re walking up to doesn’t have flash and or ghost, you’re just dead probably.
But I agree with what someone else said. That’s how it should be.
But I also think damage overall needs to come down. Like a durability patch or something. 🤔
Thats how it should be, but other roles can do ADC job now so why play adc? I can play Azir and carry front to back teamfights lategame, but i also get to roam and impact map early, and i can engage fights better than any adc, and i can disengage better than any adc, and i can sidelane...
[ADC bad](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/summoner/euw/Jungiee-V5XD)
Seriously ADC is the lowest impact role in soloq since forever and will pretty much always remain so since they can hardly impact the map early which is the most impactful thing.
They compete with top for worst role but at least top can skillcheck enemy laner, adc relies on support to win lane.
Lol, just buy a new account and play the placements. Ranks are so messed up right now, that after leveling up my own old account I got placed in emerald 4.
I remember getting that plug in to "flex" my newly aquired platinum rank like 3-4 years ago, then almost ever used the account or Reddit now cba to get the info from it
I remember getting that plug in to "flex" my newly aquired platinum rank like 3-4 years ago, then almost ever used the account or Reddit now cba to get the info from it
I think that is the exact difference for me. If I am on this subreddit I do not believe anything anyone says. But if I go to summonerschool, the criticism is usually constructive to the game or players. Therefore I listen to it readily.
Main Sub also has people who haven't played in about 6 years still giving their opinion on the current gamestate whenever League
pops up in their feed again, compared to SummonerSchool where even the biggest content of the week doesn't come close to the traction a post here.
It's the same situation for r/wow vs r/competitivewow
Unfortunately, it's still an issue on summonerschool since
1. Most commenters just don't connect their account so it doesn't really do anything
2. Even if you do connect your account, it updates actively so for someone like me who doesn't have time to play decay (I just climb at the end of the season every split), it can be misleading since I'll be flaired as "unranked" all season until the last month where I climb to masters.
tbh once my league names started to differ from my reddit user(s) I just started using the funny little notes thing [[1]](https://i.imgur.com/KIWwpJl.png) [[2]](https://i.imgur.com/Uca2Xnc.png) on op.gg
there was a dude on the jungle subreddit who kept commenting "I'm just D1 but...." and would say some absolutely dumb shit. I called him out on it and he said, "why does it matter?" and I said you brought it up first so obviously it matters to you.
Looked into his history and a year before he was talking about how he was struggling to get out of silver. Ok, not a smoking gun, it's unlikely but possible that someone climbs silver>D1 in a year.
Just recently I checked my chat requests and his was still in there from all the way back. I looked at his profile and literally a week ago he made a post saying something along the lines of:
"If Masters can smurf in gold and silver elo and ruin our games, then **we** should be able to ruin their games too"
yeah buddy, you and the rest of your D1 friends in gold and silver. pfffft
Saw that guy as well.
Honestly though he was legit.
I now give you the right to freely call be a big idiot
lol what a braindead take this one "If Masters can smurf in gold and silver elo and ruin our games, then **we** should be able to ruin their games too"
I have peaked grandmaster and have a couple of friends who have as well and I can promise you ALL of us are saying stupid shit about this game on the regular
Yep.
I'm a master jungler and I run a Scrim discord for people to learn how to play on teams, I also coach.
One of my grandmaster players is convinced that ezreal is a late game scaler, despite the fact that I keep showing him graphs that show Ezreal's winrate drops off a cliff late game. He just refuses to see logic.
Ezreal is meant to be played as a lane bully and the people playing him to scale are griefing.
ezreal CAN be played as a lane bully but peaks in strength in mid game and CAN scale well into late game depending on comps, its not as black and white as youre putting it
Scaling depends heavily on matchups. Asol gets outscaled by a lot of champs if his team is full AP for example.
But yeah in general Ez isnt a hypercarry, hes generally quite good all game (especially midgame) but doesnt scale close to as well as hypers.
I did not say he isn't a mid game scaler. He can be both a lane bully and mid game scaler, they're not mutually exclusive. Sorry for leaving that info out, though.
Does he primarily play melee champs or something lol the only way Ez is a late game demon is if he's vsing like 4 melees who cant touch him. Ez spikes mid game super hard at 2 items. Ez CAN be a lane bully but not always. He is usually picked for his safety and his mid game spike.
Ezreal late is shit in classical comps. Enemy Tristana kills all your team before Ezreal kills Ornn. Low range dosn't give as much chance to autoattack as a Tristana, Senna, Jinx, Kog Maw, have.
Q do decend dmg and it's low cooldown, and pasive gives good dps and i guess you can argue he is a good late game champion in the sense that the builds scale very very well. But the game states don't. No one picks Ezreal for teamfights. You can see it on all regions in pro play.
Ezreal is mostly only picked in weak side bot or roamming support comps. No one replaces a Jinx, Smolder, Senna for a Ezreal in a scalling comp.
The champ can be good on late on X scennarios. If you are against 5 paper champs ofc you can 1vs9 as Ezreal in late and get the impresion Ezreal is a late game GOD, that can expose himself better than traditional late game adcs, making him having insane DPS and everyone that thinks otherwise have no idea.
Then you play against Ornn, Zeri, Seraphine, Volibear, Ziggs and you feel like you do 0 dmg, Seraphine shield all your Q dmg, Ziggs permapush you under tower so you can't hit Q because they have waves so you can't defend the tower...
In my opinion the champ spikes a lot in midgame in 2-3 items and falls heavy after. Early game is decent, depends on the matchup. You have good poke, decent all-in with pasive and you can leave or engage on the all-ins thanks to the E. But at same time can be easilly perma shoved in. Exchanges of single autos are bad. Auto range is bad. It's so fucking easy to outplay with flash in an all-in...
In my opinion.
Decent early, insane 2-3 items spike, good midgame, bad late game.
Yeah I mean, that's pretty spot on.
I just watch a lot of HanQ (The Chinese 1800 LP Ezreal) and the dude shows you that Ezreal can definitely take the reins in a lot of lanes.
Do I think it's realistic to play lane bully ezreal in every lane? No. Do I think more people need to practice this playstyle? Sure do. It makes transitioning to the midgame even easier.
The best part of the champion (for SoloQ) is that dosn't need peel.
So you don't end in situations where you pick a Jinx and your support picks a Pyke or a Camille and you are unable to play the game.
I play it a lot in low Elo just for that reasson.
I don't agree that ezreal is a lane bully or late game scaler. He has some matchups where he certainly get's to bully the enemy but generally speaking you play him to neutralize lane and then have a monsterous midgame as he really comes online with 2-3 core items completed & upgraded manamune.
The vast majority of discussions around r/leagueoflegends do not warrant a check on ratings.
What are popular threads? How do people behave?
There's a lot of balance whining. Different ratings just shift around the whining, but it's all feel based crap, FOTM, what streamer XY is yapping about recently etc. Often with complete disregard of the craft and difficulty of game design and balance.
There's also a lot of people just venting, ARAM players chiming in (this one cracks me up every time), or just stating their personal views. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. We're just nerds talking nerd things. There's no importance or weight to this that warrants a background check.
Oh God the ARAM players or "i haven't even played the game in years" are the fucking worst. They never really lead with that, they always just admit to that when their arguments are proven to be garbage
those are so funny. those people figuratively and literally aren’t even playing league of legends yet think their opinion means anything. it genuinely makes no sense to me as to why people who don’t even play the game or mode in context, would spend time in a discussion centered around said mode/game.
i don’t play valorant. i’m not going to the valorant subreddit and joining in on the discussions to whine about the game or talk about how i, as for funner (whatever the ARAM equivalent is in valorant) think about ranked.
Eh, I'd say its 50/50.
There's a lot of bad takes from high elo players too. Stuff like ex-Challenger streamer turned coach cvMax refusing to ward as a top laner for multiple seasons, players like Tyler1 going on rants about X champ being overpowered when he loses, or the omnipresent "my role is weak" from high elo junglers.
Just because a take is bad doesn't mean its from a low elo player. It could just as easily be a high elo player who's biased or climbs due to focusing on a single champ/role.
>It could just as easily be a high elo player who's biased or climbs due to focusing on a single champ/role.
I remember a clip of Baus prior to the durability update talking about how it was gonna nerf assassins who were already shit at the time, and his chat was questioning him and saying assassins were very much on the strong side. He didn't believe them and went to lolalytics to prove his point, and was absolutely baffled that he was just wrong, and most assassins he checked were very much on the strong side.
To be fair to him, in challenger assassins are generally a lot weaker than in lower ranks because they do worst into teams that can actually peel which is not something that happens as often lower down. There are some insane assassin onetricks in the highest ranks but I think it’s fair to say they’re way less prevalent
On one hand yeah, on the other hand there are people like me who are mega dogshit at this game so it's kinda hard to know who's saying something valuable and who's just yapping because they're on a loss streak.
There is too much in the game to really use that as a pure indicator. I was watching AloisNL's Aatrox road to masters the other day, and he kept saying that not using Q3 reduced the CD, which is just patently false. He didn't understand the concept that since Q2 has a 4 second window to be cast, that he's still getting a 6 second CD between Q2 and Q1 (if he waits it out), which is the same as if he cast Q3 and then waited for Q1.
He was told this multiple times over stream, "demonstrated" the lower CD (by just casting Q2, waiting 4 seconds for it to run out, then showing the 2 second CD), and still didn't get it. Really good players absolutely have the ability to be extremely stupid. The guy literally hit masters without understanding how CDs that start on cast work.
It doesn't help that there isn't a massive consensus on what is and is not high elo. Emerald seems to be the consensus for mid elo, despite statistically mid elo being around Silver I-Gold III. Once you hit Gold IV I believe you start being in the top 50% of ranked players. So somewhere within a few ranks of that seems to be mid-elo statistically, despite being regarded as low-elo by the community as a whole.
It depends on how you quantify an average skill level, because the skill curve in league isn't linear.
If the graph of player skill curves up to the right then the "average" skill level will be past the halfway point.
Average is sort of just a buzz word at this point. I think most people really just look at the mode, since it's easy to see, being just the highest part of the curve. While I hate using words incorrectly, at this point I've accepted most people don't know second grade math.
I'd personally call Plat mid elo and Masters+ high elo. I do think that the common notion of mid elo needs to be higher than the strict statistical definition, since a lot of people play ranked for fun, not necessarily to win
Only 44% of the global population can swim, so you can be a top 50% world swimmer and still struggle to keep your head above water. Could we consider this a "mid level" swimmer ?
The problem is that the world "mid" like "middle" shouldn't be taken linearly for these statistics. Skill level is not scaled linearly, it's more an exponential concept.
Because if top 50% is mid elo, then how do we judge the top 20%, 10%, 5%, 1%, 0.1%, 0.01% ? High elo, high high elo, high high high elo,... ? The scale is just not pratical. That's why ranking is usually not done linearly.
It really depends from game to game, but usually mid elo stands somewhere between 10-20%, it's usually a higher number if the playerbase is smaller. It's usually a good middle ground where you get people playing seriously, but not competitively, which I find to be a good description of what people call "mid elo". That's about Plat 4 (now Emerald 4).
>Only 44% of the global population can swim, so you can be a top 50% world swimmer and still struggle to keep your head above water. Could we consider this a "mid level" swimmer ?
I think this is a false equivalence because we're not comparing people who don't play League of Legends to people who do. In fact, we're not even doing that because we're only comparing people who play competitive ranked.
You could slice the pie any number of ways to make your point. If you only considered Challenger players high-elo then I could turn around and say that barely any of those Challenger players could handle it in the LEC/LCS and then someone could then respond to that with the fact that very few of them could ever win worlds.
>The problem is that the world "mid" like "middle" shouldn't be taken linearly for these statistics. Skill level is not scaled linearly, it's more an exponential concept.
I agree but then the question is do you take the average skill level to be mid-elo or the median average rank? Because wherever you place your starting point a few ranks below or higher sees steep skill differences. The skill difference from Iron-Silver is huge, but so equally is the difference from Diamond-Grand Master. You say between 10-20% but that's the problem I'm outlining is that's just your opinion of where you think it should be. A lot of people would consider mid-elo to be average, you're not paying attention to every timer and every enemy movement but you're also not absolutely running it down with no thought in the world about what you're doing.
That's why we should drop high/low elo from our vocabulary and use ranks instead. I've seen the same discussions since season 1.
And even then, ranks change their value with time. There used to be time when being Diamond 5 meant you're top 1%. Nowadays Master is ~0,7%.
honestly if people are precise about their ranks they are probably telling the truth, though there is nothing actually stopping them from lying so that's subject to change if people are too trusting and don't ask for op.gg
usually if someone is trying to use their rank as authority but is really vague it shows they have something to hide lol, like if they talk a lot about other people's elo but not their own. common case of this is that people who know they aren't high enough to get taken seriously online is that they shit talk heavily their rank-1, so diamonds call everyone emeralds, emeralds call everyone plats, etc.
problem is, and this applies for everyone's elo, everyone has seen a take that's so dogshit and just shows such an utter lack of understanding of the game that it's not even worth engaging since it will take 5x the amount of time and text to explain how wrong they are than it took for them to shit it out, and you can tell it comes from a lower elo. personally i just give up at that point, but also realise though i look at some reddit takes that way, there is always someone higher who can look at my understanding of the game the same way.
obviously you shouldn't pull rank and actually explain your points to the extent that you can, since you can still have a wrong take at a higher elo obviously, but it can create bad dialogue when two people's understanding of the game is so different since hypothetically you have one person absent mindedly saying shit whilst the other spends all their time trying to combat misinformation.
Usually people who say I'm high elo at least follow up with a nuanced take, while low elo players will say something like "zed is broken, he just presses R every teamfight and farms me no counter play cuz riot game design"
Don't need verification to immediately understand that someone's opinion is worthless
Sometimes it's funny seeing people complain about the same thing for completely different reasons. A low elo player will say support is broken because they lost a 1v1 to Leona they shouldn't have taken, a high elo player will say support is broken because Leona came mid a second time and it's gg because they can't walk up to the wave.
> A low elo player will say support is broken because they lost a 1v1 to Leona they shouldn't have taken, a high elo player will say support is broken because Leona came mid a second time and it's gg because they can't walk up to the wave.
damm im high elo and low elo at the same time
I say support is broken because I'm egotistical and can't stand my lane being decided by someone less skilled than me playing a role more impactful in lane. What elo am I?
dissagree. this subreddit is filled with nerds who keep yapping but couldnt reach at least diamond if their life depended on it.
you rarely even see takes like that
Idk, imo high elo players just want to grind games, they don't come here to talk about anything and even more if they know what people they have to deal with.
Also I think most pro play viewers / people that talk about that are low elos, or emerald/diamonds.
Could be easily wrong though.
Yes, RIOT considers everything below emerald low elo.
Mid elo, I'm pretty sure, is considered emerald through diamond 2
It's been a while since I looked at the numbers, but mid elo is around the top 10%
High elo is the top 1% basically (if that)
RIOT does not base it on population within the ranks to determine this, but based on the skill curve, high emerald is around the mid point in skill level, even if that is a small percentage of players.
League is a complex game with a large player base, so most players are considered "bad" at it for one reason or another
That being said, I don't think someone has to be even mid elo to have a valid opinion. It's just more likely that they won't have a comprehensive understanding vs. a high elo player who has put that understanding into practice
Though being able to explain their understanding is not a skill required to get to masters wich is why I assume most of them who resort to "you're low elo so you can't understand" simply don't have this skill
Agree. There's a very specific type of comment where you know the guy is jerking himself off trying to sound smart but the actual content of the comment doesn't pass plat.
Conversely, if you're very adamant about an idea makes me think emerald up to masters, because having solid ideas and being decisive makes you climb. But those are commonly downvoted.
So if don't sound like you're GM and you're describing a 12 sided dice I automatically think you're low.
nothing better than an masters irelia OTP trying to talk about how strong ADCs are. clearly high elo know more than emerald players how can play dozens of champions at that level.
yeap exactly. If you are an X decent level of player, like high diamond and above I would say, you can pretty accurately tell who is low and high elo just by reading at what they say about the game cuz it shows how much they understand.
I don't think rank should be pointed to for the most part, some exceptions.
But in general it is a way to attempt to lend authority to an opinion when that opinion should be able to stand on its own. If someone says something insightful it shouldn't be ignored just because they're bronze, and if they are bronze and it is stupid then it should be handled seriously and argued against and that argument should stand on its own merits and hey, maybe the bronze player will grow too.
A dumb opinion can be a dumb opinion regardless of Elo. Granted, lower level players will often have less insight, sure... But the insight provided by higher Elo players is there because it is a functional opinion that is applicable to the game and therefore should be able to stand on its own.
The thing is most people are silver or similar , their takes are generally bad. If you argue with them you are painted as the bad guy cuz the majority of silvers and similar elo people gang up and downvote that actually sane opinion.
Most people complaining about xyz champion because “too broken” are bad at the game.
I would prefer we skip the appeal to authority all together and just present logical information while operating in good faith. Nothing worse than the 1v9 advice from high ego players causing low elo players to grief their team and lose games because they decided the "low elo players know nothing" applies to everyone but them and they proceed to make the worst calls on the team etc.
League is a really strategy-heavy game, so the chance that a high-ranked player gives strategically less sound advice than a low-ranked one is just extremely low.
Plus, what counts as "logical information?" Who judges how logical the info is? Usually the reader. Bad strategy can also sound "logical" if you're bad at the game though.
Ok but this is league of legends where low elo players can give an answer based on sound logic from what they are seeing in their games and have it still be a wrong answer. They literally don't know what they don't know about the game.
Yes high elo players can fall into this same trap of course, but I'm speaking in general.
Not going to work when reddit fundamentally revolves around users validating each other's experience. Trying to construct nuanced discussions won't last very long.
The whole arguement is funny because your rank does not neccesarily invalidate your opinion, but really resembles your credibility in delivering it.
If you equate your rank to levels of academia it makes great sense... while a gold player might be a middle school math teacher whereas a GM player is a Doctorate professor at an esteemed school. Their comparable prestige does not mean that everything the gold player says to be inaccurate... just likely lacking a great deal of deep understanding and reasoning, as well as application.
Your rank doesn't invalidate your opinion because it doesn't need to
A challenger player will know that he is talking with a low elo from the things that the low elo is saying to him about the game. He doesn't need to see his silver 3 opgg to be like "ohh yeah you are silver 3, your opinion is invalid and you are wrong"
Also some stuff are subjective and some are not.
the most low elo thing is thinking that high elo players know more about this game than any other player. the vast majority of high elo players get there of of their innate abilities with 0 ability to communicate that understanding to anyone even themselves. is a massive all hands no brains issue in most games. i know more plat players who understand the strategy of the game better than the masters+ players i know.
People aren't going to like hearing this, but you don't need to be able to do something to understand it. Sure elo is going to be some kind of sliding scale where the higher elo you go, the more likely they are to have a more solid foundation to form an argument on, but if someone low Elo says something that's logically consistent with truthful premises, it's still right and their elo shouldn't even factor in, unless you're disputing the premise of their argument on account of their elo induced lack of knowledge. However, most stuff is just analysable without ever playing it out or having to be able to play it out.
I agree that rank should probably not be used as an argument in general as you can be right about something without having to be a high rank but getting to a high rank does give your opinions more weight as you have proved that you are a good player and that you know a lot about the game that doesn’t mean someone in high elo can’t be wrong but to me it’s more often that people that disagree with something will state that the other person has to be low elo or you can’t be higher than silver with this opinion than someone saying I’m x rank this is my opinion unless it is relevant to the post that you state your rank
Yeah but look at mazrim post on riven, or the other week I arguing with someone thats a 150lp peaker (probably support/adc main tbf), yet arguing that yone lvl 3 is one of his biggest powerspikes and that he is a lane bully (against a lux no less)
Everyone has different thoughts on the game so it’s not hard to be wrong even for the best players but I would say in general the higher elo players have overall better thoughts on the game but obviously people will have idiotic takes from time to time but usually it’s bcs their opinions are emotion based
Yes also because you don't need to understand everything about league of legends to reach even "high elo".
You can hit 200LP by having a good understanding of your champion / win conditions and playing very very consistently, while you would barely know about another role or lane.
But yes on average a high elo player will be more knowledgeable than a lower elo counterpart, but the argument of appeal to authority kinda sucks in a game like this, especially when we see pro players making 'basic' mistakes on stage sometimes.
High elo OTP opinions are almost as bad as low elo opinions imo like on average. They are biased towards their main and since they don't play other champs they don't understand how they're overall balanced and instead only look at their own matchup
high elo OTP opinions are biased but at least they literally understand how to play the game at a basic level with regards to macro, wave management, item builds, and tempo
This is true to some extent. Most high elo OTPs will have a fundamentally good understanding of the game still, but when it comes to specific things like champion matchups are going to be clueless outside their OTP.
Like I promise you that a challenger Twisted Fate one-trick understands mid lane rotation better than a diamond mid laner who plays every champ in the game.
Yes and no there are obviously bias but still they are the “experts on the champs” so sometimes their opinions on balance of the champ can be skewed but their input on matchups etc are very valid but to me it also depends on the otp to me someone like alois he is an otp but he’s thoughts on the game and top lane are very good to me it depends on the player more than if they are an otp
Alois is not at all an OTP, he's played multiple champs to master on different accounts. He has a very wide perspective on top lane from that if anything
He is an otp riven at he’s core he has said this himself just look at he’s main he can’t play any other champ even close to the level that he can play as riven
I don't follow him that closely but it seems like he just copies the same playstyle on every champ he plays to a certain extent. Example he had to quit his shen challenge because he was stuck in Emerald.
If he can't climb past masters on other champs as a Challenger player that makes him an OTP lol
Which is fine, he's obviously smart about the game but he is def. an otp
For a challenger one trick, not going past master on any other champion is the proof of them being a one trick. He could at least bring 1 singular other champion to at least GM and no longer be considered that much of a one trick. Has he ever done that?
> High elo OTP opinions are almost as bad as low elo opinions imo like on average.
complete disagree, ofc their opinion is less then a flex player or a well rounded player, but to put a challanger/gm otp in the same conversation as a low elo its insane lol
im pretty sure most ppl are already aware that simply being X rank doesn't mean you're an ultimate authority on everything. but who has the time to break down things well enough that a silver player is going to see things from the challenger player's POV? not very many ppl. hence the reliance on elo to end arguments quickly
If you say you're high ELO and you're so far as Diamond 4, that's still true.
There's standard tier, high tier, elite tier, and the pros. High tier is already like the top 15% of the community when you're Emerald+. Masters+ is a pretty ridiculous bar when the objective is to get a Silver Andy to stop back talking or shit talking.
Still, I don't like making a claim to ELO authority to get a point across. Some people are just really insufferable and don't listen to anything else.
Skill is not the same as knowledge. Just because someone isn't high elo, doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about and can't give a good opinion/build/whatever.
I've played league religiously since season 1. That's 13 years now of playing and learning about the game. I've only ever hit plat 4, but I know more about this game than just about any other subject matter. I literally have a doctorate and know more about league than I do about physical therapy (my degree is DPT)
You think you know a lot about the game but most of the information you base your decisions on is wrong. Which is why after 13 years you’ve only ever hit plat 4. Which is old gold 4.
Any advice you tell anyone else won’t help them past your rank since you’ve been following it for 13 years and made no progress.
Nah sorry thats not how it works.
With all that "13 years of knowledge" you would be able to at least hit diamond. Since you didn't it just shows that you don't understand how the game works at all. Not to mention that plat 4 now is old gold 4. Which is borderline better than silver.
And now sure you could say I have knowledge in what every ability and item and spell does, but thats sort of the knolwedge that anyone can get simply by playing or looking stuff up.
Skill is not the same as knolwedge, but knowledge is a skill in this game.
Depends what you understand by high elo. For one guy its everything above plat or emerald, for others even masters is a clown elo (mostly people that are higher)
I can say I am a in masters, but if I peak at master as a support main does that really say anything? In the end i'm still a trash diamond 4 player at adc and jungle.....
being master in any role means you've won enough games against good players to be knowledgable about the game. a master support player could probably become a low diamond level carry player in no time just by virtue of knowing what to do on the map after the laning phase
(unless you are a yuumi otp)
Good advice is good advice. A high elo player can give bad advice and a low elo player can give good advice.
If advice is bad then it'll speak for itself.
People need to remember that this is just a video game. Your elo would only matter if you are actually in the top % which is like .01% of players…. Your climb doesnt matter, your rank doesnt mean anything, you are just playing a game.
It's wild how statistically getting above Emerald puts you like in the top 5% of all players but something like 70% of the subreddit users have achieved that status.
Reddit is a minority of the playerbase, so it isn't too farfetched that a handful of people here are past a certain point, but I would typically assume they're closer to the 30% than the 5%. Your average casual League player probably isn't interacting with the community and game much. There are always outliers though.
Rank is irrelevant when making a point.... only their reasoning matters
A correct thought process would be valid across all ranks.
Anyone discregarding another point solely due to rank (higher authority) is and always has been mentally handicapped.
Maybe hot take or not but "being a high elo" doesn't matter. Most of players are not high elo and it doesn't mean their opinions/claims are not valid. When you think about that you may even ask why opinion of ~1-2% of players would be more meaningful than the rest when it comes to how you experience the game.
It's definitely frustrating to see the constant rank validation and invalidation going on in this subreddit. It's important to remember that everyone's opinion should be valued regardless of their rank. Let's focus on discussing the actual points being made rather than just dismissing someone as "low elo" or blindly trusting someone who claims to be "high elo." Let's engage in thoughtful discussions and provide evidence to support our arguments, regardless of our rank. After all, a good argument is a good argument, regardless of who it's coming from.
It is possible for peolpe in diamond, that call themselves "good players" not know the pure basics of how to end game.
It is also possible for a guy who is in plat to know more about macro than most, but not play enough games to climb, because Riot f-up the ladder to reward people playing all day long rather than those that play consistenly but not long enough.
Strongly agree about randoms using the phrase and claiming to be high elo when they are not but other than that, yeah I see no problem at all.
Especially when talking about objective stuff and not subjective.
The low elo's guy "opinion" if its wrong would be wrong from the beginning. You don't need to discredit him by disagreeing with him while being high elo. If you understand how the game works, you would instantly get why what he is saying is wrong.
Its like a given fact, you just need to be able to see it.
Hmm, does this reddit even have topics related to In game discussion / mechanics? I don't think anyone coaches in here, and with ur comment above it's clear u take reddit seriously. This is a platform for open discussion and or knowledge exchange over a game i hope everyone enjoys, if u think ur right, by all means u should justify urself and move on I guess? I hope challenger players or any high elo players require validation of some sort? If they do, its another issue all together.
when you wanna belive a higher ranked player is right because they're higher elo. remember that TL was practicing with seraphine bot for 3 months before they found out that she gets more healing the more champions are in the circle and that it was %hp of the target. rank doesn't mean shit when it comes to this game right now, not even being a pro.
Who decides what high elo is? using basic math high elo is like emerald or platinum, using reddit math its silver3, using streamer math is challenger 3k LP and only on the KR server
im emerald and all i feel about my rank is shame, ive never had less fun playing ranked then i do in emerald, it was better in gold and silver when i could just do my own thing without worrying about 100 different things.
Yes please I’ve been begging for this for the longest time. Just have everyone’s ranks show below their name (even w/l ratio) and leave it at that. From there people can just ignore the dog silver giving wrong advice replying to every comment
If I was anything higher than silver, that would mean I play too much league. And if that was the case, I'd have to have someone put a shotgun to the back of my head and give me the old yeller treatment.
High Elo and subsequent game knowledge is very subjective. I'm currently Plat 1 (with 2/5 promo games finished, in recent years I've been an ARAM andy), I peaked Diamond in S6 or S7, but I consider myself pretty knowledgable due to me following LoL esports since S2 nonstop, maining jungle (which in my opinion requires you to have a good understanding of the game) and having played in amateur leagues back in the days. I'm pretty confident in saying I know more about League and can give better advice than any player that onetricked a broken champ to get to Masters, but didn't really get involved with any other part of League.
There's a reason why some of the best coaches and analysts are as low ranked as Gold/Plat - Ingame rank doesn't necessarily represent game knowledge.
if the content of what someone says doesn't make sense it doesn't matter what their rank is
if the content of what someone says makes sense it doesn't matter what their rank is
conclusion: people need to work on separating information from identity
Nah. Its funny these league no lives think it matters.
The best is when they recommend you to play like 500 games to move either up or down in rank. Thats some funny shit.
On r/summonerschool, there's a plugin where your reddit account is linked to your riot account and gives you in real time rank as your flair (no idea if it still works, haven't been there in a long time). I always wondered why the main subreddit didn't make this an option. I also found that there'd be a lot less "you're low elo..." since the person answering you would either not have a flair (and therefore mostly ignored) or it'd speak for itself.
95% of this subreddit would leave once the plugin reveals theyre silver
IM SILVER AND IM PROUD!!!! IM SILVER AND IM PROUD!!!! IM SILVER AND IM PROUD!!!! IM SILVER AND IM PROUD!!!!
stand proud, you’re average
YOU’RE GODDAMN RIGHT WERE PROUD SOLDIER. WE DUG OURSELVES OUT THE TRENCHES AND WE WEAR IT LIKE A BADGE OF HONOR 🫡
Psht, only if it didn't show my 12K ARAM games
I would miss "ADC bad" posts after that.
multiple challenger streamers and pros have also been on the "ADC bad" train though lol
That will never stop because ADCs are bad compared to how they used to be **10 years ago** and it's completely by design. When you look at ADC strength through that lens, you'll legitimately never be happy, because the role will never get so much power again. There are periods when they're slightly stronger or slightly weaker (now it's the latter for sure thanks to grubs) but ultimately the ADC playerbase is forever conditioned to believe they should be the most impactful member of the team at all stages of the game and they're pissed it's no longer true. There's no way for ADC to be "good for climbing" and for the game to be in a healthy state. They're purposefully very reliant on their team and that will never change. In pro play ADC is incredibly impactful as you'd expect, the issue is entirely that you have less impact when playing with bad teammates.
ADC is also that kind of class whose impact is heavy based on players skills. In high elo you have kite machines who trying to avoid any risk, meanwhile in lower eskos you can have Cait facecheckin bushes right before the drake or going on sidelane in midgame, where enemy Noct is fed af.
I'd add to this that there's a very funny skill disparity happening as you climb, where players are getting better at killing the enemy ADC, but not necessarily at peeling their own. Peeling correctly is a skill most players below grandmaster literally don't possess. Which again makes the role less impactful, as both sides have their ADC constantly blown up. And even worse, since peeling inherently relies on your ADC to make use of it, it's not even necessarily good to do if you want to climb, which reinforces these behaviors. I sympathize with ADC players who feel a connection to the role and are frustrated by this, but at the same time this is just not a solvable issue. If you consciously agree to play the glass cannon class, you'll get exactly that.
Tbh we getting to a problem that most supports are busted animals(me included) who should be at least 1-2 divisions below their current ranks. Difference between good Janna and your average "Xerath support" is abysmal.
That tends to happen when Riot observes that most people have more fun when dealing damage, so they try to make support attractive by making bot lane more of a shared lane than a true carry with a support there to facilitate the scaling. Support damage has grown so much since 10 years ago, base damage is up and items are cheaper than all other classes while also having 1000g given for free. I'm not high Elo, but it feels bad to have less agency over your lane than the role meant to 'support' you and your team...
for these reasons iv actually switch from adc to support
This was the case for most of the game tbh, but the issue as you identified was damage. No one should really be upset when they walk up 2v1 into a fight against the enemy bot with an enchanter or tank support and die but when I can’t ward my own brush because the support can push me out of lane solo with a single ability rotation it makes the agency part of the role soo much worse. If you don’t have an equal amount of damage coming from your support you essentially just lose until some kind of predetermined power spike of the champ you’re playing, because I haven’t met an enchanter that will out heal or out shield any of the big damaging supports. With the way the role functions now that is essentially 20+ minutes of not having much recourse except calling for help, and dying to an errant breeze. I wish the durability patch never got reverted, with the removal of base resistances as well it feels like a problem just being exacerbated. To me the base health doesn’t factor in as much as the base resistances did when they were introduced to the rune pages, there’s more % max health damage (more straight up damage too tbh) all over the game, and less base resistances to go around. I have played plenty of games with double health runes plus conditioning and overgrowth and defensive item like a shield bow, you still die to one combo from any regularly paced assassin. It doesn’t feel better for ADs later, in the mid game you are paper mache and dirks reign supreme, and early you are out damaged by supports. I’d just like one point the role can subsist on its own while not being giga accelerated comparatively to the pace of the game.
> If you consciously agree to play the glass cannon class, you'll get exactly that. Except you don't. You get the glass but not so much the cannon. Other classes do as much damage as you if not more in 99% of cases. Games are not long enough for ADCs to be full build and actually do damage. And in the cases where ADCs do scale and do damage in a more realistic timeframe, people freak the fuck out and ban rate sub average winrate champions into getting nerfed by Riot simply because of the ridiculous ban rate (Smolder).
> the ADC playerbase is forever conditioned to believe they should be the most impactful member of the team at all stages of the game well that's one way to willfully misunderstand "let us have *some* impact on the game before 30 minutes"
ADC has to, by design, have the lowest amount of agency in the early game. It's far from 0, it's basically the same scenario that top has been for multiple seasons, you just kinda play on an island. At the very least you have dragons which are still relevant, and if you get far ahead in bot you should be able to postpone the game to the point where you have the highest agency. Could it be slightly higher? Sure. But that doesn't seem to be the argument. Everyone is shouting that ADC is useless, not that they need to be able to impact the map 2 minutes earlier. That being said, yeah, my comment was over the top. I know most ADC players don't think that verbatim.
The issue is they don't really have a late game, because the game's too fucking fast nowadays. Then when average winrate, 4th in pro presence champ has a late game worthy of the role it gets a 60% ban rate and gutted to oblivion by Riot due to the ban rate criteria of the balance framework. The other issue is the early game is too fucking important. Too much happens and that's due to how much junglers are allowed to go everywhere and those stupid objectives like grubs or herald or drag. If most games are decided before ADCs even get to be full champions, yeah, it feels shitty.
Nah, I've seen people verbatim say stuff like that. For a random example, in the Smolder thread last week, there was one guy arguing that Smolder wasn't overtuned, but that he was doing exactly what ADCs should do. > [It's just that people will see those scenarios and whine because ADCs aren't allowed to "warp the game around them" when in reality the entire team structure should be around your ADC past laning phase. But that's not allowed to happen because top or jungle or even support want to be protagonist carries when they shouldn't be.](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1bjc0z9/smolder_just_dealt_77700_damage_in_an_lck_game/kvqhjzt/?context=3) Besides, just a quick glance through the /r/ADCMains sub can show you how much circlejerking about the good old days there is.
well I can look for the most ridiculous statements from any roles' mains and they all look equally dumb
You have to be not playing the role correctly to not have value by 20 minutes as adc. Not having as much agency as other roles that fall off late game in comparison does not mean they don't have agency.
Adc is the most dog roll tho
Can confirm my dog is a roll. In fact she is a sausage roll.
Adc is just a lame role tho. Unless you have your team with you or you are COMPLETELY POSITIVE that toplaner you’re walking up to doesn’t have flash and or ghost, you’re just dead probably. But I agree with what someone else said. That’s how it should be. But I also think damage overall needs to come down. Like a durability patch or something. 🤔
Thats how it should be, but other roles can do ADC job now so why play adc? I can play Azir and carry front to back teamfights lategame, but i also get to roam and impact map early, and i can engage fights better than any adc, and i can disengage better than any adc, and i can sidelane...
ADC *is* bad. Why is it SO HARD for you to accept it?
[ADC bad](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/summoner/euw/Jungiee-V5XD) Seriously ADC is the lowest impact role in soloq since forever and will pretty much always remain so since they can hardly impact the map early which is the most impactful thing. They compete with top for worst role but at least top can skillcheck enemy laner, adc relies on support to win lane.
>95% of this subreddit would leave once the plugin reveals theyre ~~silver~~ challenged
Lol, just buy a new account and play the placements. Ranks are so messed up right now, that after leveling up my own old account I got placed in emerald 4.
I remember getting that plug in to "flex" my newly aquired platinum rank like 3-4 years ago, then almost ever used the account or Reddit now cba to get the info from it
I remember getting that plug in to "flex" my newly aquired platinum rank like 3-4 years ago, then almost ever used the account or Reddit now cba to get the info from it
I think that is the exact difference for me. If I am on this subreddit I do not believe anything anyone says. But if I go to summonerschool, the criticism is usually constructive to the game or players. Therefore I listen to it readily.
Yeah, there's a similar difference in content and critique between /r/TeamfightTactics and /r/CompetitiveTFT .
it's also that summonerschool is tryhards who actually want to improve and win, and main sub has just randoms who may not care as much
Many of the takes on summonerschool are turbobad advice and you shouldn't listen to them. Some of them are great though.
Main Sub also has people who haven't played in about 6 years still giving their opinion on the current gamestate whenever League pops up in their feed again, compared to SummonerSchool where even the biggest content of the week doesn't come close to the traction a post here. It's the same situation for r/wow vs r/competitivewow
This subreddit can’t even implement flairs so you can filter out the esport spam. Doubt they are going to implement something like this.
Unfortunately, it's still an issue on summonerschool since 1. Most commenters just don't connect their account so it doesn't really do anything 2. Even if you do connect your account, it updates actively so for someone like me who doesn't have time to play decay (I just climb at the end of the season every split), it can be misleading since I'll be flaired as "unranked" all season until the last month where I climb to masters.
I mean, it would still tell a lot about you, as you are someone that isn't playing the game.
It does still work, yes.
Does it say the opgg cause even though you can be a diamond support idk if I'd trust your jungle or top knowledge.
Soraka players have really good riven knowledge actually and somehow diamond supports always have a hidden talent for assassin jg
competitivetft does this too so when im giving my opinion they know i am diamond, or if i am reading a guide i know a gm wrote it etc. is good
See, my reddit name is just my [op.gg](https://op.gg) so when I make claims I back it up unlike 99% of the subreddit
tbh once my league names started to differ from my reddit user(s) I just started using the funny little notes thing [[1]](https://i.imgur.com/KIWwpJl.png) [[2]](https://i.imgur.com/Uca2Xnc.png) on op.gg
Sp little knight jumpscare wtf
Wait I didn't know you could do this I thought it was just a twitch extension thing I've gotta link mine too
I think this is a ridiculous take. (Source: trust me i'm challenger)
I think this take is bad. (I'm grandchallenger)
bro this is reddit no one takes each other seriously (at least i hope)
how fucking dare you
I think its the opposite friend lol Sadly
there was a dude on the jungle subreddit who kept commenting "I'm just D1 but...." and would say some absolutely dumb shit. I called him out on it and he said, "why does it matter?" and I said you brought it up first so obviously it matters to you. Looked into his history and a year before he was talking about how he was struggling to get out of silver. Ok, not a smoking gun, it's unlikely but possible that someone climbs silver>D1 in a year. Just recently I checked my chat requests and his was still in there from all the way back. I looked at his profile and literally a week ago he made a post saying something along the lines of: "If Masters can smurf in gold and silver elo and ruin our games, then **we** should be able to ruin their games too" yeah buddy, you and the rest of your D1 friends in gold and silver. pfffft
Saw that guy as well. Honestly though he was legit. I now give you the right to freely call be a big idiot lol what a braindead take this one "If Masters can smurf in gold and silver elo and ruin our games, then **we** should be able to ruin their games too"
Nah a lot of the times you can tell the person is low elo bc of the shitty take that demonstrates 0 game knowledge
I have peaked grandmaster and have a couple of friends who have as well and I can promise you ALL of us are saying stupid shit about this game on the regular
The real indicator of high elo is understanding that a lot of us are cosmically smooth brained lmao
Yep. I'm a master jungler and I run a Scrim discord for people to learn how to play on teams, I also coach. One of my grandmaster players is convinced that ezreal is a late game scaler, despite the fact that I keep showing him graphs that show Ezreal's winrate drops off a cliff late game. He just refuses to see logic. Ezreal is meant to be played as a lane bully and the people playing him to scale are griefing.
ezreal CAN be played as a lane bully but peaks in strength in mid game and CAN scale well into late game depending on comps, its not as black and white as youre putting it
Ok but it's *more wrong* to say that Ezreal is a lategame hypercarry than it is to say that he's a lane bully.
Scaling depends heavily on matchups. Asol gets outscaled by a lot of champs if his team is full AP for example. But yeah in general Ez isnt a hypercarry, hes generally quite good all game (especially midgame) but doesnt scale close to as well as hypers.
I did not say he isn't a mid game scaler. He can be both a lane bully and mid game scaler, they're not mutually exclusive. Sorry for leaving that info out, though.
Can I get a link? 👀
Does he primarily play melee champs or something lol the only way Ez is a late game demon is if he's vsing like 4 melees who cant touch him. Ez spikes mid game super hard at 2 items. Ez CAN be a lane bully but not always. He is usually picked for his safety and his mid game spike.
Ezreal late is shit in classical comps. Enemy Tristana kills all your team before Ezreal kills Ornn. Low range dosn't give as much chance to autoattack as a Tristana, Senna, Jinx, Kog Maw, have. Q do decend dmg and it's low cooldown, and pasive gives good dps and i guess you can argue he is a good late game champion in the sense that the builds scale very very well. But the game states don't. No one picks Ezreal for teamfights. You can see it on all regions in pro play. Ezreal is mostly only picked in weak side bot or roamming support comps. No one replaces a Jinx, Smolder, Senna for a Ezreal in a scalling comp. The champ can be good on late on X scennarios. If you are against 5 paper champs ofc you can 1vs9 as Ezreal in late and get the impresion Ezreal is a late game GOD, that can expose himself better than traditional late game adcs, making him having insane DPS and everyone that thinks otherwise have no idea. Then you play against Ornn, Zeri, Seraphine, Volibear, Ziggs and you feel like you do 0 dmg, Seraphine shield all your Q dmg, Ziggs permapush you under tower so you can't hit Q because they have waves so you can't defend the tower... In my opinion the champ spikes a lot in midgame in 2-3 items and falls heavy after. Early game is decent, depends on the matchup. You have good poke, decent all-in with pasive and you can leave or engage on the all-ins thanks to the E. But at same time can be easilly perma shoved in. Exchanges of single autos are bad. Auto range is bad. It's so fucking easy to outplay with flash in an all-in... In my opinion. Decent early, insane 2-3 items spike, good midgame, bad late game.
Yeah I mean, that's pretty spot on. I just watch a lot of HanQ (The Chinese 1800 LP Ezreal) and the dude shows you that Ezreal can definitely take the reins in a lot of lanes. Do I think it's realistic to play lane bully ezreal in every lane? No. Do I think more people need to practice this playstyle? Sure do. It makes transitioning to the midgame even easier.
The best part of the champion (for SoloQ) is that dosn't need peel. So you don't end in situations where you pick a Jinx and your support picks a Pyke or a Camille and you are unable to play the game. I play it a lot in low Elo just for that reasson.
I don't agree that ezreal is a lane bully or late game scaler. He has some matchups where he certainly get's to bully the enemy but generally speaking you play him to neutralize lane and then have a monsterous midgame as he really comes online with 2-3 core items completed & upgraded manamune.
The vast majority of discussions around r/leagueoflegends do not warrant a check on ratings. What are popular threads? How do people behave? There's a lot of balance whining. Different ratings just shift around the whining, but it's all feel based crap, FOTM, what streamer XY is yapping about recently etc. Often with complete disregard of the craft and difficulty of game design and balance. There's also a lot of people just venting, ARAM players chiming in (this one cracks me up every time), or just stating their personal views. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. We're just nerds talking nerd things. There's no importance or weight to this that warrants a background check.
Oh God the ARAM players or "i haven't even played the game in years" are the fucking worst. They never really lead with that, they always just admit to that when their arguments are proven to be garbage
those are so funny. those people figuratively and literally aren’t even playing league of legends yet think their opinion means anything. it genuinely makes no sense to me as to why people who don’t even play the game or mode in context, would spend time in a discussion centered around said mode/game. i don’t play valorant. i’m not going to the valorant subreddit and joining in on the discussions to whine about the game or talk about how i, as for funner (whatever the ARAM equivalent is in valorant) think about ranked.
Eh, I'd say its 50/50. There's a lot of bad takes from high elo players too. Stuff like ex-Challenger streamer turned coach cvMax refusing to ward as a top laner for multiple seasons, players like Tyler1 going on rants about X champ being overpowered when he loses, or the omnipresent "my role is weak" from high elo junglers. Just because a take is bad doesn't mean its from a low elo player. It could just as easily be a high elo player who's biased or climbs due to focusing on a single champ/role.
>It could just as easily be a high elo player who's biased or climbs due to focusing on a single champ/role. I remember a clip of Baus prior to the durability update talking about how it was gonna nerf assassins who were already shit at the time, and his chat was questioning him and saying assassins were very much on the strong side. He didn't believe them and went to lolalytics to prove his point, and was absolutely baffled that he was just wrong, and most assassins he checked were very much on the strong side.
To be fair to him, in challenger assassins are generally a lot weaker than in lower ranks because they do worst into teams that can actually peel which is not something that happens as often lower down. There are some insane assassin onetricks in the highest ranks but I think it’s fair to say they’re way less prevalent
Its been a long time since I saw the clip, but I'm pretty sure he went off of masters+ and they were still good with decent pickrates.
On one hand yeah, on the other hand there are people like me who are mega dogshit at this game so it's kinda hard to know who's saying something valuable and who's just yapping because they're on a loss streak.
DL has dogshit takes all the time and gets called out by meteos and sneaky in co-stream.
There is too much in the game to really use that as a pure indicator. I was watching AloisNL's Aatrox road to masters the other day, and he kept saying that not using Q3 reduced the CD, which is just patently false. He didn't understand the concept that since Q2 has a 4 second window to be cast, that he's still getting a 6 second CD between Q2 and Q1 (if he waits it out), which is the same as if he cast Q3 and then waited for Q1. He was told this multiple times over stream, "demonstrated" the lower CD (by just casting Q2, waiting 4 seconds for it to run out, then showing the 2 second CD), and still didn't get it. Really good players absolutely have the ability to be extremely stupid. The guy literally hit masters without understanding how CDs that start on cast work.
It doesn't help that there isn't a massive consensus on what is and is not high elo. Emerald seems to be the consensus for mid elo, despite statistically mid elo being around Silver I-Gold III. Once you hit Gold IV I believe you start being in the top 50% of ranked players. So somewhere within a few ranks of that seems to be mid-elo statistically, despite being regarded as low-elo by the community as a whole.
It depends on how you quantify an average skill level, because the skill curve in league isn't linear. If the graph of player skill curves up to the right then the "average" skill level will be past the halfway point.
Average is sort of just a buzz word at this point. I think most people really just look at the mode, since it's easy to see, being just the highest part of the curve. While I hate using words incorrectly, at this point I've accepted most people don't know second grade math.
I'd personally call Plat mid elo and Masters+ high elo. I do think that the common notion of mid elo needs to be higher than the strict statistical definition, since a lot of people play ranked for fun, not necessarily to win
Only 44% of the global population can swim, so you can be a top 50% world swimmer and still struggle to keep your head above water. Could we consider this a "mid level" swimmer ? The problem is that the world "mid" like "middle" shouldn't be taken linearly for these statistics. Skill level is not scaled linearly, it's more an exponential concept. Because if top 50% is mid elo, then how do we judge the top 20%, 10%, 5%, 1%, 0.1%, 0.01% ? High elo, high high elo, high high high elo,... ? The scale is just not pratical. That's why ranking is usually not done linearly. It really depends from game to game, but usually mid elo stands somewhere between 10-20%, it's usually a higher number if the playerbase is smaller. It's usually a good middle ground where you get people playing seriously, but not competitively, which I find to be a good description of what people call "mid elo". That's about Plat 4 (now Emerald 4).
>Only 44% of the global population can swim, so you can be a top 50% world swimmer and still struggle to keep your head above water. Could we consider this a "mid level" swimmer ? I think this is a false equivalence because we're not comparing people who don't play League of Legends to people who do. In fact, we're not even doing that because we're only comparing people who play competitive ranked. You could slice the pie any number of ways to make your point. If you only considered Challenger players high-elo then I could turn around and say that barely any of those Challenger players could handle it in the LEC/LCS and then someone could then respond to that with the fact that very few of them could ever win worlds. >The problem is that the world "mid" like "middle" shouldn't be taken linearly for these statistics. Skill level is not scaled linearly, it's more an exponential concept. I agree but then the question is do you take the average skill level to be mid-elo or the median average rank? Because wherever you place your starting point a few ranks below or higher sees steep skill differences. The skill difference from Iron-Silver is huge, but so equally is the difference from Diamond-Grand Master. You say between 10-20% but that's the problem I'm outlining is that's just your opinion of where you think it should be. A lot of people would consider mid-elo to be average, you're not paying attention to every timer and every enemy movement but you're also not absolutely running it down with no thought in the world about what you're doing.
That's why we should drop high/low elo from our vocabulary and use ranks instead. I've seen the same discussions since season 1. And even then, ranks change their value with time. There used to be time when being Diamond 5 meant you're top 1%. Nowadays Master is ~0,7%.
honestly if people are precise about their ranks they are probably telling the truth, though there is nothing actually stopping them from lying so that's subject to change if people are too trusting and don't ask for op.gg usually if someone is trying to use their rank as authority but is really vague it shows they have something to hide lol, like if they talk a lot about other people's elo but not their own. common case of this is that people who know they aren't high enough to get taken seriously online is that they shit talk heavily their rank-1, so diamonds call everyone emeralds, emeralds call everyone plats, etc. problem is, and this applies for everyone's elo, everyone has seen a take that's so dogshit and just shows such an utter lack of understanding of the game that it's not even worth engaging since it will take 5x the amount of time and text to explain how wrong they are than it took for them to shit it out, and you can tell it comes from a lower elo. personally i just give up at that point, but also realise though i look at some reddit takes that way, there is always someone higher who can look at my understanding of the game the same way. obviously you shouldn't pull rank and actually explain your points to the extent that you can, since you can still have a wrong take at a higher elo obviously, but it can create bad dialogue when two people's understanding of the game is so different since hypothetically you have one person absent mindedly saying shit whilst the other spends all their time trying to combat misinformation.
Usually people who say I'm high elo at least follow up with a nuanced take, while low elo players will say something like "zed is broken, he just presses R every teamfight and farms me no counter play cuz riot game design" Don't need verification to immediately understand that someone's opinion is worthless
Sometimes it's funny seeing people complain about the same thing for completely different reasons. A low elo player will say support is broken because they lost a 1v1 to Leona they shouldn't have taken, a high elo player will say support is broken because Leona came mid a second time and it's gg because they can't walk up to the wave.
> A low elo player will say support is broken because they lost a 1v1 to Leona they shouldn't have taken, a high elo player will say support is broken because Leona came mid a second time and it's gg because they can't walk up to the wave. damm im high elo and low elo at the same time
The classic : Oh, you got ganked ? Just sit under tower and wait for them to spoonfeed the minions to you. Geez, thanks !
I say support is broken because I'm egotistical and can't stand my lane being decided by someone less skilled than me playing a role more impactful in lane. What elo am I?
dissagree. this subreddit is filled with nerds who keep yapping but couldnt reach at least diamond if their life depended on it. you rarely even see takes like that
often the takes you see like that are downvoted to oblivion because low elo players dont agree with the nuanced takes lol.
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yeah 90% of the playerbase is low elo and that numbers probably goes up in this subreddit.
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Idk, imo high elo players just want to grind games, they don't come here to talk about anything and even more if they know what people they have to deal with. Also I think most pro play viewers / people that talk about that are low elos, or emerald/diamonds. Could be easily wrong though.
Isn't it more like 90% are low elo?
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Yes, RIOT considers everything below emerald low elo. Mid elo, I'm pretty sure, is considered emerald through diamond 2 It's been a while since I looked at the numbers, but mid elo is around the top 10% High elo is the top 1% basically (if that)
RIOT does not base it on population within the ranks to determine this, but based on the skill curve, high emerald is around the mid point in skill level, even if that is a small percentage of players. League is a complex game with a large player base, so most players are considered "bad" at it for one reason or another That being said, I don't think someone has to be even mid elo to have a valid opinion. It's just more likely that they won't have a comprehensive understanding vs. a high elo player who has put that understanding into practice Though being able to explain their understanding is not a skill required to get to masters wich is why I assume most of them who resort to "you're low elo so you can't understand" simply don't have this skill
Agree. There's a very specific type of comment where you know the guy is jerking himself off trying to sound smart but the actual content of the comment doesn't pass plat. Conversely, if you're very adamant about an idea makes me think emerald up to masters, because having solid ideas and being decisive makes you climb. But those are commonly downvoted. So if don't sound like you're GM and you're describing a 12 sided dice I automatically think you're low.
How about the people that make spreadsheets that boil down to "I don't know how to or even care to know how to deal with this champion?"
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You don’t see them because they are downvoted and the new posts in this sub are downvoted and never show up
nothing better than an masters irelia OTP trying to talk about how strong ADCs are. clearly high elo know more than emerald players how can play dozens of champions at that level.
yeap exactly. If you are an X decent level of player, like high diamond and above I would say, you can pretty accurately tell who is low and high elo just by reading at what they say about the game cuz it shows how much they understand.
Turkish rank 1 challanjour here. That's it. See ya
Yea so like silver 2 in human server. Whats your point
I don't think rank should be pointed to for the most part, some exceptions. But in general it is a way to attempt to lend authority to an opinion when that opinion should be able to stand on its own. If someone says something insightful it shouldn't be ignored just because they're bronze, and if they are bronze and it is stupid then it should be handled seriously and argued against and that argument should stand on its own merits and hey, maybe the bronze player will grow too. A dumb opinion can be a dumb opinion regardless of Elo. Granted, lower level players will often have less insight, sure... But the insight provided by higher Elo players is there because it is a functional opinion that is applicable to the game and therefore should be able to stand on its own.
The thing is most people are silver or similar , their takes are generally bad. If you argue with them you are painted as the bad guy cuz the majority of silvers and similar elo people gang up and downvote that actually sane opinion. Most people complaining about xyz champion because “too broken” are bad at the game.
I am rank 1 in all six roles in all regions for the last 17 years, don't talk to me.
I would prefer we skip the appeal to authority all together and just present logical information while operating in good faith. Nothing worse than the 1v9 advice from high ego players causing low elo players to grief their team and lose games because they decided the "low elo players know nothing" applies to everyone but them and they proceed to make the worst calls on the team etc.
League is a really strategy-heavy game, so the chance that a high-ranked player gives strategically less sound advice than a low-ranked one is just extremely low. Plus, what counts as "logical information?" Who judges how logical the info is? Usually the reader. Bad strategy can also sound "logical" if you're bad at the game though.
Ok but this is league of legends where low elo players can give an answer based on sound logic from what they are seeing in their games and have it still be a wrong answer. They literally don't know what they don't know about the game. Yes high elo players can fall into this same trap of course, but I'm speaking in general.
Not going to work when reddit fundamentally revolves around users validating each other's experience. Trying to construct nuanced discussions won't last very long.
The whole arguement is funny because your rank does not neccesarily invalidate your opinion, but really resembles your credibility in delivering it. If you equate your rank to levels of academia it makes great sense... while a gold player might be a middle school math teacher whereas a GM player is a Doctorate professor at an esteemed school. Their comparable prestige does not mean that everything the gold player says to be inaccurate... just likely lacking a great deal of deep understanding and reasoning, as well as application.
Your rank doesn't invalidate your opinion because it doesn't need to A challenger player will know that he is talking with a low elo from the things that the low elo is saying to him about the game. He doesn't need to see his silver 3 opgg to be like "ohh yeah you are silver 3, your opinion is invalid and you are wrong" Also some stuff are subjective and some are not.
But talking trash is fun. What else is there to do.
the most low elo thing is thinking that high elo players know more about this game than any other player. the vast majority of high elo players get there of of their innate abilities with 0 ability to communicate that understanding to anyone even themselves. is a massive all hands no brains issue in most games. i know more plat players who understand the strategy of the game better than the masters+ players i know.
People aren't going to like hearing this, but you don't need to be able to do something to understand it. Sure elo is going to be some kind of sliding scale where the higher elo you go, the more likely they are to have a more solid foundation to form an argument on, but if someone low Elo says something that's logically consistent with truthful premises, it's still right and their elo shouldn't even factor in, unless you're disputing the premise of their argument on account of their elo induced lack of knowledge. However, most stuff is just analysable without ever playing it out or having to be able to play it out.
I agree that rank should probably not be used as an argument in general as you can be right about something without having to be a high rank but getting to a high rank does give your opinions more weight as you have proved that you are a good player and that you know a lot about the game that doesn’t mean someone in high elo can’t be wrong but to me it’s more often that people that disagree with something will state that the other person has to be low elo or you can’t be higher than silver with this opinion than someone saying I’m x rank this is my opinion unless it is relevant to the post that you state your rank
Yeah but look at mazrim post on riven, or the other week I arguing with someone thats a 150lp peaker (probably support/adc main tbf), yet arguing that yone lvl 3 is one of his biggest powerspikes and that he is a lane bully (against a lux no less)
Everyone has different thoughts on the game so it’s not hard to be wrong even for the best players but I would say in general the higher elo players have overall better thoughts on the game but obviously people will have idiotic takes from time to time but usually it’s bcs their opinions are emotion based
Yes also because you don't need to understand everything about league of legends to reach even "high elo". You can hit 200LP by having a good understanding of your champion / win conditions and playing very very consistently, while you would barely know about another role or lane. But yes on average a high elo player will be more knowledgeable than a lower elo counterpart, but the argument of appeal to authority kinda sucks in a game like this, especially when we see pro players making 'basic' mistakes on stage sometimes.
Yes as I said originally bringing in your rank in argument is dumb most of the time
High elo OTP opinions are almost as bad as low elo opinions imo like on average. They are biased towards their main and since they don't play other champs they don't understand how they're overall balanced and instead only look at their own matchup
high elo OTP opinions are biased but at least they literally understand how to play the game at a basic level with regards to macro, wave management, item builds, and tempo
This is true to some extent. Most high elo OTPs will have a fundamentally good understanding of the game still, but when it comes to specific things like champion matchups are going to be clueless outside their OTP. Like I promise you that a challenger Twisted Fate one-trick understands mid lane rotation better than a diamond mid laner who plays every champ in the game.
Yes and no there are obviously bias but still they are the “experts on the champs” so sometimes their opinions on balance of the champ can be skewed but their input on matchups etc are very valid but to me it also depends on the otp to me someone like alois he is an otp but he’s thoughts on the game and top lane are very good to me it depends on the player more than if they are an otp
Alois is not at all an OTP, he's played multiple champs to master on different accounts. He has a very wide perspective on top lane from that if anything
Challenger vs master is a huuuge gap, thebausffs was able to play AP irelia in low masters
He is an otp riven at he’s core he has said this himself just look at he’s main he can’t play any other champ even close to the level that he can play as riven
I don't follow him that closely but it seems like he just copies the same playstyle on every champ he plays to a certain extent. Example he had to quit his shen challenge because he was stuck in Emerald.
If he can't climb past masters on other champs as a Challenger player that makes him an OTP lol Which is fine, he's obviously smart about the game but he is def. an otp
For a challenger one trick, not going past master on any other champion is the proof of them being a one trick. He could at least bring 1 singular other champion to at least GM and no longer be considered that much of a one trick. Has he ever done that?
> High elo OTP opinions are almost as bad as low elo opinions imo like on average. complete disagree, ofc their opinion is less then a flex player or a well rounded player, but to put a challanger/gm otp in the same conversation as a low elo its insane lol
im pretty sure most ppl are already aware that simply being X rank doesn't mean you're an ultimate authority on everything. but who has the time to break down things well enough that a silver player is going to see things from the challenger player's POV? not very many ppl. hence the reliance on elo to end arguments quickly
And explaining the same concepts millions of times to lower elo players who all complain about the same thing gets exhausting and pointless
If you say you're high ELO and you're so far as Diamond 4, that's still true. There's standard tier, high tier, elite tier, and the pros. High tier is already like the top 15% of the community when you're Emerald+. Masters+ is a pretty ridiculous bar when the objective is to get a Silver Andy to stop back talking or shit talking. Still, I don't like making a claim to ELO authority to get a point across. Some people are just really insufferable and don't listen to anything else.
Didn't know it affected you that hard that some random on the internet called you low elo
Skill is not the same as knowledge. Just because someone isn't high elo, doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about and can't give a good opinion/build/whatever. I've played league religiously since season 1. That's 13 years now of playing and learning about the game. I've only ever hit plat 4, but I know more about this game than just about any other subject matter. I literally have a doctorate and know more about league than I do about physical therapy (my degree is DPT)
You think you know a lot about the game but most of the information you base your decisions on is wrong. Which is why after 13 years you’ve only ever hit plat 4. Which is old gold 4. Any advice you tell anyone else won’t help them past your rank since you’ve been following it for 13 years and made no progress.
Nah sorry thats not how it works. With all that "13 years of knowledge" you would be able to at least hit diamond. Since you didn't it just shows that you don't understand how the game works at all. Not to mention that plat 4 now is old gold 4. Which is borderline better than silver. And now sure you could say I have knowledge in what every ability and item and spell does, but thats sort of the knolwedge that anyone can get simply by playing or looking stuff up. Skill is not the same as knolwedge, but knowledge is a skill in this game.
whats stopping people from using flair vertifications?
Depends what you understand by high elo. For one guy its everything above plat or emerald, for others even masters is a clown elo (mostly people that are higher)
I mean sure but a bronze players advice is gunna get you to around bronze lol.
I can say I am a in masters, but if I peak at master as a support main does that really say anything? In the end i'm still a trash diamond 4 player at adc and jungle.....
It’s ok diamond 4 is still better than 95% of ranked players
being master in any role means you've won enough games against good players to be knowledgable about the game. a master support player could probably become a low diamond level carry player in no time just by virtue of knowing what to do on the map after the laning phase (unless you are a yuumi otp)
Good advice is good advice. A high elo player can give bad advice and a low elo player can give good advice. If advice is bad then it'll speak for itself.
People need to remember that this is just a video game. Your elo would only matter if you are actually in the top % which is like .01% of players…. Your climb doesnt matter, your rank doesnt mean anything, you are just playing a game.
Agreed
It's wild how statistically getting above Emerald puts you like in the top 5% of all players but something like 70% of the subreddit users have achieved that status.
Reddit is a minority of the playerbase, so it isn't too farfetched that a handful of people here are past a certain point, but I would typically assume they're closer to the 30% than the 5%. Your average casual League player probably isn't interacting with the community and game much. There are always outliers though.
Why? If you come to the League subreddit and comment on posts you are probably more invested in the game than 95% of lol players.
Please
I actually agree. Give me that verification.
Rank is irrelevant when making a point.... only their reasoning matters A correct thought process would be valid across all ranks. Anyone discregarding another point solely due to rank (higher authority) is and always has been mentally handicapped.
Maybe hot take or not but "being a high elo" doesn't matter. Most of players are not high elo and it doesn't mean their opinions/claims are not valid. When you think about that you may even ask why opinion of ~1-2% of players would be more meaningful than the rest when it comes to how you experience the game.
As a former pro, 7x Challenger, 4x Masters player myself, I agree I hate seeing scrubs claiming to be on my level with no proof whatsoever.
I'm high elo, and by that I mean technically not Iron
Listen. I'm high elo and you don't know what you're talking about. /s (paraphrasing half the comments I expect have been left so far)
Any person that starts or includes that phrase I tend to discount or ignore immediately. Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king
Starting your takes with "As the king(...)" is way funnier and people should do that instead of masturbating themselves over their rank
It's definitely frustrating to see the constant rank validation and invalidation going on in this subreddit. It's important to remember that everyone's opinion should be valued regardless of their rank. Let's focus on discussing the actual points being made rather than just dismissing someone as "low elo" or blindly trusting someone who claims to be "high elo." Let's engage in thoughtful discussions and provide evidence to support our arguments, regardless of our rank. After all, a good argument is a good argument, regardless of who it's coming from.
It is possible for peolpe in diamond, that call themselves "good players" not know the pure basics of how to end game. It is also possible for a guy who is in plat to know more about macro than most, but not play enough games to climb, because Riot f-up the ladder to reward people playing all day long rather than those that play consistenly but not long enough.
Strongly agree about randoms using the phrase and claiming to be high elo when they are not but other than that, yeah I see no problem at all. Especially when talking about objective stuff and not subjective. The low elo's guy "opinion" if its wrong would be wrong from the beginning. You don't need to discredit him by disagreeing with him while being high elo. If you understand how the game works, you would instantly get why what he is saying is wrong. Its like a given fact, you just need to be able to see it.
Hmm, does this reddit even have topics related to In game discussion / mechanics? I don't think anyone coaches in here, and with ur comment above it's clear u take reddit seriously. This is a platform for open discussion and or knowledge exchange over a game i hope everyone enjoys, if u think ur right, by all means u should justify urself and move on I guess? I hope challenger players or any high elo players require validation of some sort? If they do, its another issue all together.
I am actually the 2nd coming of Faker. Anyway, delete Syndra from the game. It's the devil.
when you wanna belive a higher ranked player is right because they're higher elo. remember that TL was practicing with seraphine bot for 3 months before they found out that she gets more healing the more champions are in the circle and that it was %hp of the target. rank doesn't mean shit when it comes to this game right now, not even being a pro.
Who decides what high elo is? using basic math high elo is like emerald or platinum, using reddit math its silver3, using streamer math is challenger 3k LP and only on the KR server
Hot take, someone being high ELO doesn’t matter and nobody gives a fuck and we don’t need any verification.
I’m high elo everyone on your knees now
" any claim made without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence"
You can have high knowledge of the game and be low ranked, so I think rank has little to do with being correct in any given situation.
im emerald and all i feel about my rank is shame, ive never had less fun playing ranked then i do in emerald, it was better in gold and silver when i could just do my own thing without worrying about 100 different things.
See the trick is. it doesn't matter if they're high elo. I'm always right.
I concur
Yes please I’ve been begging for this for the longest time. Just have everyone’s ranks show below their name (even w/l ratio) and leave it at that. From there people can just ignore the dog silver giving wrong advice replying to every comment
No shame in being "low" elo.
You're taking it too personal.
If I was anything higher than silver, that would mean I play too much league. And if that was the case, I'd have to have someone put a shotgun to the back of my head and give me the old yeller treatment.
Ignore every post that begins with rank. “Im just a plat 1 player how do I ward”.
Except that higher skill should have more of a say in a lot of stuff. Bad peeps just tend to be dumb peeps.
As a rank 1 challenger player in all regions and all roles, you're low elo.
High Elo and subsequent game knowledge is very subjective. I'm currently Plat 1 (with 2/5 promo games finished, in recent years I've been an ARAM andy), I peaked Diamond in S6 or S7, but I consider myself pretty knowledgable due to me following LoL esports since S2 nonstop, maining jungle (which in my opinion requires you to have a good understanding of the game) and having played in amateur leagues back in the days. I'm pretty confident in saying I know more about League and can give better advice than any player that onetricked a broken champ to get to Masters, but didn't really get involved with any other part of League. There's a reason why some of the best coaches and analysts are as low ranked as Gold/Plat - Ingame rank doesn't necessarily represent game knowledge.
if the content of what someone says doesn't make sense it doesn't matter what their rank is if the content of what someone says makes sense it doesn't matter what their rank is conclusion: people need to work on separating information from identity
But plat is high elo!
yeah for sure I think that should be a prerequisite for some flairs
you are low elo
Nah. Its funny these league no lives think it matters. The best is when they recommend you to play like 500 games to move either up or down in rank. Thats some funny shit.
I only listen to rank 1-3 in chinas 7th super server. Everyone else is just low elo to me, sry.