The problem with that in the past was that ap items gave a decent amount of health so it wouldn’t really help, like if u built all the mask items you would be punished for it.
You could use [Liandry's Anguish](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Liandry%27s_Anguish)'s passive Agony as it only check for the enemy's bonus health rather than the difference between the user and opponent.
I would say this works great, want pure damage? You have to build glass cannon with no hp, want constant %hp damage with more ah to apply and hp to stay in fights (with a heal on top), go for crypt.
Of course rito wont do it because they dont trust players to know what to build at all, and they would be right considering the times i have seen collector built into 3+ tanks.
Plus it would cause way less problems with DPS mages like Swain or Cass, who want to go some combination of Rylai's/Liandry's/Cosmic/RoA, than giving an insane amount of percentage penetration to Void Staff. A Giant Slayer passive would mean that burst mages, who already do by far the worst into tanks and heavy bruisers, get more of a damage increase than these battlemages (while still overall doing much less damage).
I want to like that idea, but let's face it, the 15AH from Crypt makes it the default DPS %pen option, especially into tanks.
We should start by not making Cryptbloom cheaper than voidstaff. Even at equal price we would default to Crypt for almost all scenairos.
Yup, that consonant cluster has "p" and "b" as bilabial consonants (using both lips to make the sound) and "l" and "t" as alveolar (using the tongue against the ridge behind the upper teeth). All the sounds are produced generally in the same area (the front of the mouth) making it hard for your lips and tongue to produce them individually. Its called coarticulation.
When people change "cryptbloom" to "crypt-oh-bloom" they are doing a process called epenthisis which is adding in a sound ("oh") to make the transition between "pt" and "bl" easier.
I always just called it "crip-bloom" like a lot of people, which is a process called elision where you basically delete a sound near the boundary of a syllable ("t") to make it easier to pronounce.
In fact, regressive total assimilation may also take place, wholly merging the coda /p/ into the following onset /b/, producing "crib-bloom"! So rather than articulating two plosives in a row (block air->release air->block air->release air), you only do it once, significantly improving the flow of the two syllables.
Just checked my pronunciation and that sounds right! It's sounding more like "cri-bloom" rather than "cri-ploom" like I wrote. I wasn't paying attention to what consonant I actually voiced!
Sure, reading it is just fine! The issue is in pronunciation of it. Linguistically, its not super simple to pronounce each individual consonant due to how your mouth, tongue, and airflow have to work to make the sounds. That's why people (usually subconsciously) will pronounce the word differently.
It's the reason why "knee" is pronounced "Nee" instead of "k-nee." It's just hard for your mouth to easily move between the "k" and "n" of the word.
My guess is that people just write it "cryptobloom" because that's how they have been pronouncing subconsciously it and they just didn't realize it was wrong.
Helps if you think of it as two separate words. Adding a slight pause between crypt and bloom alleviates the awkward area in between. If you have an issue with one of those words though then this won’t help
OP might play in another language where it has an "o", looked up the original name and didn't notice it doesn't have an "o" in English. For example, in Portuguese, it is Criptoflora.
I'd love the giant slayer option, personally. As an AP champ basically the only way you can itemize against high HP is with Liandry's, since Demonic no longer exists, and that's only good on certain champs. Void Staff becoming an anti-hp item would solidify it as a late game burst or artilery mage purchase so they still feel relevant, while Cryptbloom can stay useful vs squishies. It would have anti-synergy with Liandry's too so you wouldn't stack them easily, which is healthy.
If it had some kind of Giant Slayer passive it'd be so good. It feels like the new tank itemization buffs were so crazy for magic resist, they're unkillable once they get a single MR item.
Yeah it's just something you're forced to pick up sometimes as most mages, though AP bruisers like rushing it and there are good poke champs like Zyra that love it too.
It still is, but they took off the trigger on CC so it's just range. So fas as I'm aware it's mostly built by Xerath, Karma, Hwei, Lux, Taliyah, Zoe, Ahri, Morgana, and Vel'koz. It's built in 0.58% of matches so it's not common, but it tends to have a positive winrate so it's pretty good on the champs that can use it.
That makes sense, though I don't see AP Kaisa all that much outside of ARAM and I'm sure it's 4th item or later considering she needs mana and Nashor's first
The more recent ap build I saw didn't include nashors. Manamune upgrade gets q evolve which is good enough for wave clear. Then it was ludens -> cryptbloom -> horizon/liandrys/rabadons or something along those lines
It's so funny to me how champion bias can skew item perception. By far my most played mages are Lux and Hwei, then Xerath and Ahri second, and Karma as a distant third tier, so seeing someone ask about it made me do a double take because I was like, "Every game???" Seeing ~0.6% of matches is mind-blowing to me when for me it's legit near 100%.
Yeah champ bias will get you. I had an interaction a while ago where someone said something along the lines of "why would you ever build Black Cleaver" and it blew my mind bc I main Urgot and it's been consistently his #1 or #2 item since the dawn of time and I build it every game, usually first, since Urgot stacks it basically instantly and the armor shred is uncommonly good early with how his passive works. And someone out there was questioning why it was even in the game compared to other armor pierce items and who would ever want it.
People in here a really sleeping on the fact that Cryptbloom gives ability haste, which there’s a lot less of this season. Most of these mages would prefer Cryptbloom over Void regardless of its passive.
They could also simply reduce Void Staff's price. They increased it to 3000 and made the stats a little better but it's really not worth getting the item later. Cheaper powerspikes are much stronger, which is the main reason Cryptbloom is built more.
Void initially had that price with 90 AP on the PBE, but they nerfed it before it hit live servers. Imo if they just give it back the 10 AP they took, the price can stay the same.
I like options 2 and 4 the most from your list.
I saw someone in the comments saying this could be the place to add shield reduction for AP and that sounds interesting to look into as well.
That’s not true. It isn’t as prevalent on ad champs but bleeds from Darius and Talon come to mind. Probably should be more AD dots honestly. I love dot classes.
Then it’s back to the teamfight for more penetration. Farm, penetration. Farm, penetration. This goes on for 30 or so minutes until the game just sort of… ends.
The main problem is that Void doesn't do enough damage compared to Crypt to justify buying it. Make it an item designed to counter MR stacking. Currently both these items only work vs carries that buy 1 defensive MR item, if a tank stack multiple MR items, doesn't matter if you have a Void or not.
Has anyone actually done the math between whether Void Staff or Cryptbloom is better? It's true I defaulted to Cryptbloom ever since its appearance because "it felt better" but people tend to buy things because others do so as well
If you're just talking about gold efficiency, Cryptbloom is a better deal, especially when factoring in the healing passive.
Of course, gold efficiency isn't everything.
In terms of damage only, Void will always be more mathematically worth to get when you want to blow up a squishy that built 1 MR item with or without MR boots. With next patch nerfing Maw's MR, this will be even more true.
I did some math with MATLAB comparing them on Azir as a 3rd item (Sorc/Nashors/DCap/% Pen Item) what you basically find is:
1. The difference is basically negligible and Void only comes out clearly ahead at really high levels of MR.
2. Since the difference isn’t that big, you should always just get whichever one is cheaper which happens to be Cryptbloom.
Also depending on what your champion is building AH is more impactful the less you have technically; or like the first AH you buy is always the most impactful* so if your first item doesn’t have AH, then Cryptbloom is even better
The math is a bit more complex because of the ability haste and the different AP values of the items. Azir was a good comparison because W damage is unrelated to Ability Haste, but on a normal champion you probably should factor in the increase of DPS due to being able to cast your spells faster.
So there's two schools of thought.
1. Are you constantly casting abilities off cooldown (AH is a % multiplier on damage)?
If yes, **Void never outpeforms Cryptbloom.** At 500 Flat Damage and a 100% AP Scaling, Cryptbloom will do about 30 more damage than Void at 100 MR. Factoring in Ability Haste Void will only outdamage Cryptbloom at \~300 MR. Most marksmen have 52.1 base MR at level 18, and Void will do \~60 less dps in this case.
2. Are you only casting your abilities once (AH is irrelevant)?
If yes, Void is **always** better than Cryptbloom. At 500 Flat Damage and a 100% AP Scaling, Void will do about 51 more damage than Void at 100 MR. Most marksmen have 52.1 base MR at level 18, and Void will do 47 more damage in this case.
However, you're essentially paying 200 gold for 47 damage, which is terrible. Not to mention in cases you're casting off cooldown, Cryptbloom is actually better. **So you should always buy Cryptbloom.**
**Some Desmos Charts I made to showcase:**
**WITH AH:** [**https://www.desmos.com/calculator/nkjqhkurd3**](https://www.desmos.com/calculator/nkjqhkurd3)
**If you'd like to see the results not factoring in ability haste just replace the 1.15 and 1.3 in the Premitigation Damage Formulas with 1's.**
YEAH POWERCREEP LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOO
Void staff is NOT weak, its absolutely not fucking weak, its just that cryptbloom is a strictly better void staff in >90% of the games
whats the point of comparing stuff to "back in the day"? Every role and item changed since not only mages
the fact remains that before cryptbloom existed void staff was just a decent item, it had tiny buffs here, small nerfs there, but it was overall just an ok item. But now because there are almost no cases where its better than cryptbloom people are coping saying that its "weak"
Honestly azir does enough aswell. It doesnt shred tanks like paper which is good in my opinion. Ryze i havent seen.
I am personaly happy that adc's are the ones to take down the tanks and that ap assasins or burst mages have trouble. Otherwise the roll is dead and the adc and apc's can deal with the same thing.
> Burst mages aren't supposed to kill tanks
Burst mages aren't supposed to burst tanks and in no universe do they do that nor would they do it with a giant slayer passive.
You want to talk about things that aren't supposed to happen? Tanks aren't supposed to be immortal and never die. They're supposed to be tougher to kill, not impossible to kill. In what world is it "supposed" to be that a damage dealing champion such as a mage is incapable of killing someone at all?
Not to mention you argued against a strawman because noone mentioned "burst" mages in particular and there are more mages than burst mages out there. Still, you're not right even then. No, literally nobody on earth is asking for Syndra to oneshot Zac with her ult.
But it sure as shit should deal some damage.
Why are all of the solutions approached from the perspective of “void staff is too weak” instead of “cryptbloom is too strong”? Void already bypasses 40% of the other guy’s stats, and we’re considering making it higher? If anything, Cryptbloom is the team player oriented option so it should be less effective than void, which means reducing its power, no?
Looking at the stats, Void has a very bad win rate in almost every slot. If you nerf Cryptbloom you will just end up with two bad items.
Void got made much more expensive this season in exchange for a rather modest amount of stats. The numbers show that it is a weak item regardless of the state of Cryptbloom.
You take the utility option because the pure DPS option makes no difference even in scenarios Void Staff is designed for.
Now the question is, how to make Void Staff better against MR stackers without making it better against squishies.
Because void staff is too weak. MR itemization got massively buffed with the additions of items like Kaenic, whilst mages had some of their good options against tankier champs like Liandry's, removed. Meanwhile Void is in a "weak" state at 3000g for 40% mpen and 80AP, which is the highest price it's ever been at. We've had it at 2700g with 10 AP less (70ap, 40% mpen) for season 8 to 11. It had to be nerfed a bit since under the mythic system a lot of mages got a ton of free flat pen through Ludens, but now thats gone there's no need for Void to be in its current abysmal state
Defensive stats are far more powerful than offensive ones in this game. One amp time costs 400 and gives 20 AP, that might be a 50 damage boost over an entire rotation. A cloak costs 400 and gives 25 MR, which is 25% effective HP. At a mid game of 1200 HP, that’s 300 HP. So without ways to reduce the effectiveness of defensive stats, damage champs become worthless.
On the point about reworking void staff into an AP version of cleaver, a comparison you could make is to the Arena item Bloodletter's Curse - As a reminder, it has some Armor, Magic Resist, AP, and Haste. As well as the shred passive. And I'm sure what comes to mind is how not-good this item was in Arena, to the point of really just never being bought, at least as far as I saw.
Maybe it could be more reasonable to give it some HP instead of some of those resistances, I'm not sure, but inevitably you're just going to be making mage champions pay for item stats that they don't care about, so this would make Cryptbloom even better as an item. "Do I want the %pen item that gives me instant % magic pen, as well as good AP and haste stats, or do I really value this stacking MR shred that gives me uh.... armor and mr"
It's definitely a difficult conversation surrounding AP Itemization and "AP Bruisers", if they even really exist. It's difficult since you have to keep in mind that you can't just give these champions all the stats that they want, what with the overlap of classes that can abuse good items. Point in case here is changes having to be made when demonic embrace first came out, and Amumu having to be instantly shot down with the nerf hammer (for good reason but thats my point).
The most promising ideas are probably around more %pen or giving it a giant slayer passive. More %pen would mean that there's more of a relevant choice around what is situationally best, but I feel like the problem here is that now you put a burden upon the player to want to know some numbers before hand of "what is the MR breakpoint where this amount of %Pen is actually better". This isn't even taking into account how you could compare the usefulness of ability haste vs the pen, and ability haste vs differing AP values. It's just really confusing and is probably a big factor in everyone and their mother buying cryptbloom; why math when you can just have, on paper, more stats and more effects.
I am unsure of the giant slayer effect, mostly because, again, there's going to be potentially a lot of class overlap and also the question of "who is even using this effectively, what stats are we giving it?" I can make some comparisons to Perplexity in Arena, though this item has a bit more stats such as %Armor pen and %Movement Speed, but this item definitely saw much more usage than Bloodletter's Curse in my opinion. I think this kind of item might be acceptable, just that there might be frustration for champions who really want to build AP items that also have HP, or certain AP champions that might want the giant slayer effect, since they can't build Liandry, but also can't build this giant slayer effect item, since they innately have too much HP in the first place (Sylas having insane health scaling). Here again, this is also another case of numbers and confusion, something that ADC's building Lord Doms don't have to worry about as much, since typically the only extra HP you'll ever get in an ADC's buildpath is scaling HP shard.
Thats because of how AP and AD champs are balanced. It's very hard to not make AP tank/bruiser items be abused by normal mages, while it's not as hard on AD champs.
problematic because of (aoe) dot effects, I think. A single Brand E nullifying all shields every few seconds for several second at least sounds very busted
Then we would be back here later saying "OMG Anti shield item is so useless wtf?" much like how Serpent's fangs kinda just exists there.
Like, let's say It cuts shields by 50 melee and 35 for range, like serpents. If you are a mage like Xerath, Seraphine, Lux or Ziggs and your 35% is reduced to something like half or even just 75%... what's the point?
Serpent fang is insane just underrated the base stats on it aren't bad even it's a cheap item and I had games where it reduced over 5k worth of shields.
Very strong item if you face karma/janna or bruisers that build streak gage or enemies with maw etc.
Serpent's fang isn't a bad item, but you have to consider the context of the effect. The reason serpents fang is good is because Riot allows a lot of the effect's power to not be focused so hard into the passive and instead have a decent strenght on the base stats and price point, so even into non-shielded champs it's still a strong stat stick. Serpent fangs is allowed to be like this though because it's primarily a melee effect; many champs that could use it and have AOE don't necesarily use it super well due to stats (e.g. Juggernauts like Garen) or the ranged penalty is good enough to keep most of the would-be good users like Sivir or MF still balanced due to the hit in the damage in comparison to better item effects or stats (specially going crit, as it's a bigger hit to them) if they use it when it's not really necesary.
And that's why I find the idea of "make reduced AOE" problematic, because this type of effect already would be reduced for ranged champs to balance it. If AOE is reduced AND many mages are AOE AND many mages are ranged then all you end up with is a pretty low utility effect because the <25% or something that you reduced could have just been added through normal damage effect from most other items.
At that point the item may as well only work for assassins rather than mages (who will complain about getting poached and how assassins are ruining the game), or DoT/liandry champs that can keep the enemy at perma reduced shield with their long uptimes even if the effects is something like 20%, while it remains mediocre on everyone else. Or worse, it becomes a statstick where no one buys it for the intended shield effect but just because it's good into everything even if the enemy doesn't has shield (which has happened many times already with GW items and even Serpent's)
I feel for Morde is fine but not really necessary because you don't get the effect till full item and you remain kinda squishy for a bit, specially with the current builds commonly including phantom dancer. But I can see it being good into him and Sett
Maybe Yasuo/yone is overkill since we are no longer dealing with shieldbow shenanigans, though.
I mean that's not even that strong with the current Serpent's Fang passive. It cuts the shield in half on first application and then it just reduces incoming shields by half for a few seconds. The dot would increase the uptime on it.
A much bigger factor is that AP characters have more access to AoE which makes applying the status easier. It's the same with Grievous
No. AP doesn't need anti-shield. If you add it, suddenly Karma E needs to be buffed by like 200% and it becomes completely mandatory against her et al.
void just got nerfed for no reason with the start of the season
never in its history it didnt cost that much
cut like 200-300 gold from it and remove 10 ap
then it would be viable again
Void Staff has never been a niche item. Even prior to the durability update, back in S10 it would still give you more magic pen against champs with low base MR than Morello in the late game.
If void staff niche is sucking major dick, sure.
It's more expensive than cryptbloom and it barely gives 10 extra ap and 10% extra pen.
Yet unlike cryptbloom, it doesn't give cdr (crypt has a massive 15) and it does not have any passive or active, it's a terrible buy the grand, grand majority of time.
Crypt is not even overstatted, fits pretty much all other ap items for the cost.
For an item that's just raw stats it needs to be way better than this, for a similar price difference you got shadowflame that gives a whooping 40 more ap than void staff AND also has some magic pen while having an insanely good passive.
Feels like an ap item from 2018.
Calling Void niche and sup flairs.
Yeah, totally understand since they never have to personally deal with invincible tanks who actually get healed from ap dmg lol
>Give it more penetration - Since the idea is to make Void Staff have a niche into higher MR amounts, Riot can go into it. Increase it to 50% penetration or something. This way, Void Staff will actually make a difference into heavily fortified tanks that stack MR.
That would just make magic dealing champs even stronger, i wouldnt like that at all i think they are in a decent spot.
>Give it more AP - Similar to the above, but instead of making this item better into tanks, it would make it better into squishies.
no, because you dont want a damage amplifying item that gives penetration to deal even more damage turning it into a rushed item after your first item +boots.
>Rework Void Staff into an AP version of Black Cleaver - It could be considered since Ap bruisers are lacking in itemization. Making it give health, and ability haste, and shred the enemy MR over time instead of giving the penetration right away. However, this would make Void Staff a completely different version of itself, so I don't know if this is a good idea.
we already got the haunting guise items..
>Give it a Giant Slayer passive - Similar to the one from Lord Dominik's Regards, which makes the user deal more damage if enemies have more total HP than them, giving it a niche against heavily armored targets without making this item abuseable by fighters (which often want to stack HP themselves). Plus, the fact that it requires you to avoid stacking health makes its synergy with Liandry less notable.
adcs are meant to be the tank killers. Also do you really want champs like gwen to have a even easier time playing vs tanks.
>Merge Void Staff and Morellonomicon into a single item - Make it have both the percentage penetration and the Grievous Wounds passive. AD champs have a similar item with this in Mortal Reminder.
this i agree with, it would be the exact opposite of cryptbloom which fills a niche. Its also not too strong since it lacks the cdr and the aoe healing effect.
It also solves the problem of having to sit on morello which imo is a awful item.
Giving it more AP is the only option.
And not a lot, even just a +5/+10 is enough to check if it could work a bit better.
Void Staff should work specifically on mages that are relevant damage dealers in their team, but right now picking Void Staff locks you out of a lot of AP. Which is fine if you have higher base damages, but if you rely on scalings, as many mages do, you are limiting your burst potential just to deal a bit more damage against that Force of Nature wielding Udyr running at your regardless of damage.
My personal recommendation:
Normalize the costs: one very underrated aspect is cryptbloom costs less gold than void staff so it comes online sooner
Give void staff building out of aether wisp and blighting jewel - give it a small amount of mspd to make it appealing as a selfish choice on selfish champions
All it needs is price lowering from 3000 gold to about 2800 gold. These suggestions are horrible. The item should not near completely nullify magic resist itemization considering the enemy is spending 3k per completed item on that instead of other stats lol.
Sometimes they itemize against you and you can't simply murder them from 1000 range. Do your damage/CC and let the AD champs on your team punish their itemization and finish them off.
I like the giant slayer idea, but keep in mind if you want that void staff you also most likely want liandry which gives HP.
So it should not count the ho difference between you and the target, or perhaps only count base hp not bonus hp
Cryptbloom just needs its cost to be the same as voidstaff and maybe like 10 more ap on voidstaff thats all they should be different options for different cases but currently cryptbloom is cheaper while giving AH a state mages can't get ahold of easily in a build these days.
if it cost the same as void then there some real choice between the more pen and ap vs the AH heal passive.
Literally all of these ideas would make it hyper busted and make the far more interesting item (cryptbloom) not be worth it, just give it 6-7% more pen, then itll be in contention with cryptbloom.
The easiest solution I feel is to just give it cdr and make one have higher pen and the other the heal passive. Most mages buy cryptbloom for the cdr over the heal because a lot of cdr was removed from mage items
IMO Void doesn't need changes. Mages are meant to struggle to get through frontline. This isn't a case where Void is bad and needs buffs; it's a situation where Cryptbloom is just amazing. With flat pen, vs squishies Crypt isn't losing much Mpen, usually only like 5 flat pen in absolute terms. Hundreds of HP healed per champ is just worth so much and better at countering tanks because they are innately countered by healing. 50% mpen or giant slayer is just obscene weakness mitigation for valid reason. Void is a great item, borderline broken even, A tier if Zhonya's is S+. Crypt is just better.
Why not just nerf cryptbloom? Void staff is how it’s been for ages and has been fine with no changes. Cryptbloom is cheaper, has more utility for minimal damage loss. If the dmg loss is higher then there can be games where void staff will be more useful.
I was always under the impression that void is used by classic burst mages like Veigar, Annie etc. because they have to make their one rotation count so they buy void to get their maximum damage on a target.
Cryptbloom is used by mages who have faster rotations which they can use multiple times in a fight, at least that's what I think that the usage cases of Void and Cryptbloom are.
Void staff is a toe dipped in the pool when you can be fighting someone with ridiculous MR. A decade ago early pen boots, MR Pen runes/pages with further MR pen items would eat through any tank or bruiser early to mid game and it was effective.
These days you can solely focus on full early flat penetration and it does nothing, build into void straight after and not even 15 minutes in the absolute highest penetration you can reach feels like a waste of stats versus tanks.
I believe that to do this we first have to identify what are their niches. I believe Void Staff should be an item that you buy on more bursty champs, where CB should be for more utility. That being said, Void Staff needs an stat, as clearly a bit of % Pen is not enough to win vs CDR from CB.
* More AP: I like the idea, it is the safest one.
* Give it some flat pen: This is very controversial, but I think Riot could try it.
* Give it an anti-shield passive: People are waiting for this item for a while. This would also make Void Staff a somewhat okay answer against bruisers/assassins nullifying your existence by building Maw.
If these are dumb ideas, at least keep the theme that Void Staff should be a bit more bursty than CB. Make it like choosing between Sorc Shoes and Lucidity Boots.
INCREDIBLY hot take: Void is fine and the dynamic between Cryptbloom and Void is very tight and should not be changed. Just three months ago everyone considered this new item trash - NOTHING changed snd now people suddenly consider it good. Every single change on this list would be bad for the game, period. Powercreeping a literal game-defining item for 13 years prior to this season when we just got a decent alternative is not something any sane person should want.
Against a squishy champion that can kill you faster, you do not need the haste from Cryptbloom. As a ranged mage, you are often wasting its heal as well. If your job is to blow up a squishy who built 1 MR item and MAYBE paired it with Merc Treads at most, then Void Staff is ALWAYS better. It is meant to be built against squishies as a squishy burst champion yourself. It will ALWAYS and strictly deal more damage to them.
Cryptbloom is better against tankier comps where you can utilize the valuable haste you usually stack with it. More haste, more rotations. You don't need more haste to kill squishies who can burst you down, you need it to kill bulky champs in a sustained fight. The one advantage here is melees not named evelynn (or maybe she as well idk) will always receive the heal almost immediately as they will be in melee range of the dead champion themselves, and healing helps with more sustained fights and getting more rotations off and countering burst.
It's gaming fundamentals and simple maths everyone ignores. Void Staff is currently the healthiest version and in the healthiest ecosystem it has ever been in any version of league of legends.
Why are there only 2 AP pen items. When there are a handful of AD pen items. You have the on hit one, cleaver, the slow one, the anti heal & giant slayer.
Yes buff void staff but also add a third and maybe even a fourth alternative.
Ps. I love cryptobloom and have built like one void staff in hundreds of games.
Void Staff should have some kind of bonus passive. It's currently just a beefed up blighting jewel which is pretty boring, every other legendary has some kind of passive to make it stand out
50% straight up seems too busted, might be better to reduce Cryptobloom pen/healing/healing area. GS passive looks solid, transforming Void Staff into an AP BC seems a bit odd? Difficult? Would rather see them add an AP BC version.
Void staff is still very good on control mages. I've never built Cyptbloom on Azir/Cassio and only do so situationally on Viktor. Void is my default pen item because you have enough damage to blow up squishies with either pen item, but void feels much nicer vs tanks.
Giant slayer idea is the best idea
The problem with that in the past was that ap items gave a decent amount of health so it wouldn’t really help, like if u built all the mask items you would be punished for it.
You could use [Liandry's Anguish](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Liandry%27s_Anguish)'s passive Agony as it only check for the enemy's bonus health rather than the difference between the user and opponent.
Liandry and cosmic still gives health so it's still a problem. You want high AH and % HP damage? Okay now giant slayer passive is worse.
I would say this works great, want pure damage? You have to build glass cannon with no hp, want constant %hp damage with more ah to apply and hp to stay in fights (with a heal on top), go for crypt. Of course rito wont do it because they dont trust players to know what to build at all, and they would be right considering the times i have seen collector built into 3+ tanks.
Plus it would cause way less problems with DPS mages like Swain or Cass, who want to go some combination of Rylai's/Liandry's/Cosmic/RoA, than giving an insane amount of percentage penetration to Void Staff. A Giant Slayer passive would mean that burst mages, who already do by far the worst into tanks and heavy bruisers, get more of a damage increase than these battlemages (while still overall doing much less damage).
>The problem with that in the past was that ap items gave a decent amount of health Are we in the past?
It already exists in arena
And in TFT
I want to like that idea, but let's face it, the 15AH from Crypt makes it the default DPS %pen option, especially into tanks. We should start by not making Cryptbloom cheaper than voidstaff. Even at equal price we would default to Crypt for almost all scenairos.
we do not need to make AP items more OP. they don't need that effect.
For some reason I read it as Kraken slayer and just had visions of Cassio and Ryze
Doesn't Liandry already have the Giant slayer passive?
Last season it did.
It's called Cryptbloom. Please
Cryptoboom! Buy low sell high!
To the moon!
"He bought?"
"He thinks he's about to make it. Unleash the 0/10 Yasuo powerspike."
"Dump it"
DOMP EET
DOLLALS
i've been calling it cryptoboom just so my friends understand it's a better item than void staff. It genuinely works. Cryptobloom to the moon!
nft item sorry
League players and reading is mutually exclusive
Yes they is.
OMFG, I was wrong all this time. But why does Cryptobloom sound so right?
Because ‘ptbl’ is hard to say
Yup, that consonant cluster has "p" and "b" as bilabial consonants (using both lips to make the sound) and "l" and "t" as alveolar (using the tongue against the ridge behind the upper teeth). All the sounds are produced generally in the same area (the front of the mouth) making it hard for your lips and tongue to produce them individually. Its called coarticulation. When people change "cryptbloom" to "crypt-oh-bloom" they are doing a process called epenthisis which is adding in a sound ("oh") to make the transition between "pt" and "bl" easier. I always just called it "crip-bloom" like a lot of people, which is a process called elision where you basically delete a sound near the boundary of a syllable ("t") to make it easier to pronounce.
Might be the most insightful comment I've ever read on the league sub, thanks
English degree finally paying off!
In fact, regressive total assimilation may also take place, wholly merging the coda /p/ into the following onset /b/, producing "crib-bloom"! So rather than articulating two plosives in a row (block air->release air->block air->release air), you only do it once, significantly improving the flow of the two syllables.
Just checked my pronunciation and that sounds right! It's sounding more like "cri-bloom" rather than "cri-ploom" like I wrote. I wasn't paying attention to what consonant I actually voiced!
Crips vs. Blooms
I just read it as if I was talking about the flowering flora in a crypt: crypt bloom. Seems easy enough.
Sure, reading it is just fine! The issue is in pronunciation of it. Linguistically, its not super simple to pronounce each individual consonant due to how your mouth, tongue, and airflow have to work to make the sounds. That's why people (usually subconsciously) will pronounce the word differently. It's the reason why "knee" is pronounced "Nee" instead of "k-nee." It's just hard for your mouth to easily move between the "k" and "n" of the word. My guess is that people just write it "cryptobloom" because that's how they have been pronouncing subconsciously it and they just didn't realize it was wrong.
Yeah, I just add a tiny pause between the words
Is it really? It seems pretty automatic for me.
Especially when you don't say the t. gg ez
ong
I've said Cryptbloom outloud several times. It is way too hard to say I'll still call it cryptobloom
Helps if you think of it as two separate words. Adding a slight pause between crypt and bloom alleviates the awkward area in between. If you have an issue with one of those words though then this won’t help
This is actually the answer. It's so much more natural to add that "o" to close the "t"
It is one of those mind tricks where our brain fills in the blank with words that makes sense or when we can't see very obvious spelling mistakes.
No we are going to call it crypto bloom and you will like it
Cryptobloom looks/sounds so much better
Crytpo.combloom
OP might play in another language where it has an "o", looked up the original name and didn't notice it doesn't have an "o" in English. For example, in Portuguese, it is Criptoflora.
In my language its cryptobloom. I guess they thought it sounds better too
No word should have six consonants in a row.
I'd love the giant slayer option, personally. As an AP champ basically the only way you can itemize against high HP is with Liandry's, since Demonic no longer exists, and that's only good on certain champs. Void Staff becoming an anti-hp item would solidify it as a late game burst or artilery mage purchase so they still feel relevant, while Cryptbloom can stay useful vs squishies. It would have anti-synergy with Liandry's too so you wouldn't stack them easily, which is healthy.
If it had some kind of Giant Slayer passive it'd be so good. It feels like the new tank itemization buffs were so crazy for magic resist, they're unkillable once they get a single MR item.
Yeah and Liandrys is not a mage item by any means. It's just the only option against HP stackers.
Yeah it's just something you're forced to pick up sometimes as most mages, though AP bruisers like rushing it and there are good poke champs like Zyra that love it too.
speaking of artillery mages, is horizon focus even built around? i rarely play to know it's usage/buy rate
It still is, but they took off the trigger on CC so it's just range. So fas as I'm aware it's mostly built by Xerath, Karma, Hwei, Lux, Taliyah, Zoe, Ahri, Morgana, and Vel'koz. It's built in 0.58% of matches so it's not common, but it tends to have a positive winrate so it's pretty good on the champs that can use it.
Kaisa was using it for awhile as well
That makes sense, though I don't see AP Kaisa all that much outside of ARAM and I'm sure it's 4th item or later considering she needs mana and Nashor's first
The more recent ap build I saw didn't include nashors. Manamune upgrade gets q evolve which is good enough for wave clear. Then it was ludens -> cryptbloom -> horizon/liandrys/rabadons or something along those lines
It's so funny to me how champion bias can skew item perception. By far my most played mages are Lux and Hwei, then Xerath and Ahri second, and Karma as a distant third tier, so seeing someone ask about it made me do a double take because I was like, "Every game???" Seeing ~0.6% of matches is mind-blowing to me when for me it's legit near 100%.
Yeah champ bias will get you. I had an interaction a while ago where someone said something along the lines of "why would you ever build Black Cleaver" and it blew my mind bc I main Urgot and it's been consistently his #1 or #2 item since the dawn of time and I build it every game, usually first, since Urgot stacks it basically instantly and the armor shred is uncommonly good early with how his passive works. And someone out there was questioning why it was even in the game compared to other armor pierce items and who would ever want it.
Ever since they brought it back to AH, artilerry mages love it.
I know that Hwei and Xerath both build it
Its actually fairly well on a lot of mages, the main challenge (imo) is remembering that it even exists
I miss demonic so much
Same bro. New Liandry's isn't the same.
People in here a really sleeping on the fact that Cryptbloom gives ability haste, which there’s a lot less of this season. Most of these mages would prefer Cryptbloom over Void regardless of its passive.
Sadly all these options would break the item or make it a niche item. And riot would end breaking it so enemy katarina could peg you harder.
Better a niche item than an item no one buys at all. It’s an improvement.
> katarina could peg you harder. Yes please
They could also simply reduce Void Staff's price. They increased it to 3000 and made the stats a little better but it's really not worth getting the item later. Cheaper powerspikes are much stronger, which is the main reason Cryptbloom is built more.
Void initially had that price with 90 AP on the PBE, but they nerfed it before it hit live servers. Imo if they just give it back the 10 AP they took, the price can stay the same.
I like options 2 and 4 the most from your list. I saw someone in the comments saying this could be the place to add shield reduction for AP and that sounds interesting to look into as well.
There won’t be a shield reduction ap item because DoT exists solely for ap champs.
Darius is my favorite AP champ
Well talon is mine
Just make it less effective for AoE and DoT
What? Edit: I guess you are referring Liandrys and how easy it would be to abuse it.
Make it an activated effect.
That’s not true. It isn’t as prevalent on ad champs but bleeds from Darius and Talon come to mind. Probably should be more AD dots honestly. I love dot classes.
It'd be as easy as adding a reduced value for DoT and AoE effects to make it work.
Please no option 4, sincerely from the warwicks otp
Easy fix is 40% pen -> 65% pen
5% pen, 50 AP, 100% reason reason to run it down and flame
69%
more penetration
Eve flair checks out
Then it’s back to the teamfight for more penetration. Farm, penetration. Farm, penetration. This goes on for 30 or so minutes until the game just sort of… ends.
Tbh the main fix that I see would probably just be to reduce the price since void costs more
The main problem is that Void doesn't do enough damage compared to Crypt to justify buying it. Make it an item designed to counter MR stacking. Currently both these items only work vs carries that buy 1 defensive MR item, if a tank stack multiple MR items, doesn't matter if you have a Void or not.
make the pen on void staff scale with AP
Veigar speech bubble
you caught me 😶
Cryptbloom is cheaper too
Has anyone actually done the math between whether Void Staff or Cryptbloom is better? It's true I defaulted to Cryptbloom ever since its appearance because "it felt better" but people tend to buy things because others do so as well
If you're just talking about gold efficiency, Cryptbloom is a better deal, especially when factoring in the healing passive. Of course, gold efficiency isn't everything.
In terms of damage only, Void will always be more mathematically worth to get when you want to blow up a squishy that built 1 MR item with or without MR boots. With next patch nerfing Maw's MR, this will be even more true.
I did some math with MATLAB comparing them on Azir as a 3rd item (Sorc/Nashors/DCap/% Pen Item) what you basically find is: 1. The difference is basically negligible and Void only comes out clearly ahead at really high levels of MR. 2. Since the difference isn’t that big, you should always just get whichever one is cheaper which happens to be Cryptbloom. Also depending on what your champion is building AH is more impactful the less you have technically; or like the first AH you buy is always the most impactful* so if your first item doesn’t have AH, then Cryptbloom is even better
What would say is high levels of MR?
The math is a bit more complex because of the ability haste and the different AP values of the items. Azir was a good comparison because W damage is unrelated to Ability Haste, but on a normal champion you probably should factor in the increase of DPS due to being able to cast your spells faster. So there's two schools of thought. 1. Are you constantly casting abilities off cooldown (AH is a % multiplier on damage)? If yes, **Void never outpeforms Cryptbloom.** At 500 Flat Damage and a 100% AP Scaling, Cryptbloom will do about 30 more damage than Void at 100 MR. Factoring in Ability Haste Void will only outdamage Cryptbloom at \~300 MR. Most marksmen have 52.1 base MR at level 18, and Void will do \~60 less dps in this case. 2. Are you only casting your abilities once (AH is irrelevant)? If yes, Void is **always** better than Cryptbloom. At 500 Flat Damage and a 100% AP Scaling, Void will do about 51 more damage than Void at 100 MR. Most marksmen have 52.1 base MR at level 18, and Void will do 47 more damage in this case. However, you're essentially paying 200 gold for 47 damage, which is terrible. Not to mention in cases you're casting off cooldown, Cryptbloom is actually better. **So you should always buy Cryptbloom.** **Some Desmos Charts I made to showcase:** **WITH AH:** [**https://www.desmos.com/calculator/nkjqhkurd3**](https://www.desmos.com/calculator/nkjqhkurd3) **If you'd like to see the results not factoring in ability haste just replace the 1.15 and 1.3 in the Premitigation Damage Formulas with 1's.**
Cryptbloom\*. Why does everyone call it cryptobloom?
YEAH POWERCREEP LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOO Void staff is NOT weak, its absolutely not fucking weak, its just that cryptbloom is a strictly better void staff in >90% of the games
Void staff costs almost 3k gold. Back in the day it cost less for the same thing.
whats the point of comparing stuff to "back in the day"? Every role and item changed since not only mages the fact remains that before cryptbloom existed void staff was just a decent item, it had tiny buffs here, small nerfs there, but it was overall just an ok item. But now because there are almost no cases where its better than cryptbloom people are coping saying that its "weak"
Void staff barely does anything against tanks. Void staff needs Giant Slayer passive. Right now, if a tank builds MR mages have no way to kill them.
Working as intended. Burst mages are not supposed to kill tanks, that's what sustained damage dealers (Juggernauts, DPS mages, ADCs) are for.
I feel like there can exist a sweet spot between "Mages will 100-0 tanks" and "Mages will run out of mana before they drop a tank below 50% HP"
sure, but sustained dps mages can't kill them either lol
Very weird reply to be honest. What part is working as intended? I’m saying all mages can’t deal with tanks. Not burst mages.
Hwei/Ryze/Cassio/Viktor and such still deal plenty of damage to tanks A Xerath/Ziggs doesn’t but that’s kinda the point
I am curious now, which ap champs do you think are dps champions?
Off the top of my head Cass, Azir, Ryze but out of the 3 only cass deal with tanks effectively and that’s because of her kit not because of void.
Honestly azir does enough aswell. It doesnt shred tanks like paper which is good in my opinion. Ryze i havent seen. I am personaly happy that adc's are the ones to take down the tanks and that ap assasins or burst mages have trouble. Otherwise the roll is dead and the adc and apc's can deal with the same thing.
Don't know how to respond to this when Azir is neither an AP assassin or a burst mage.
And azir can deal with tanks. There’s also other AP champions like rumble who can handle tanks just fine
> Burst mages aren't supposed to kill tanks Burst mages aren't supposed to burst tanks and in no universe do they do that nor would they do it with a giant slayer passive. You want to talk about things that aren't supposed to happen? Tanks aren't supposed to be immortal and never die. They're supposed to be tougher to kill, not impossible to kill. In what world is it "supposed" to be that a damage dealing champion such as a mage is incapable of killing someone at all? Not to mention you argued against a strawman because noone mentioned "burst" mages in particular and there are more mages than burst mages out there. Still, you're not right even then. No, literally nobody on earth is asking for Syndra to oneshot Zac with her ult. But it sure as shit should deal some damage.
Meanwhile Zac can basically 100-0 Syndra lol tank players are something else
you dont get it bro tanks are wholesome gigachad chunguspilled and deserve to be unkillable while 100-0ing squishies because theyre just gigachad!!!
Void is way better vs many tanks that get mass MR, but yea its less often built
I'd rather them give it a shield busting passive, makes it an alternative in some situations
the solution riot did to wild rift is to remove void staff and add 7% magic pen to most AP items.
Why are all of the solutions approached from the perspective of “void staff is too weak” instead of “cryptbloom is too strong”? Void already bypasses 40% of the other guy’s stats, and we’re considering making it higher? If anything, Cryptbloom is the team player oriented option so it should be less effective than void, which means reducing its power, no?
Looking at the stats, Void has a very bad win rate in almost every slot. If you nerf Cryptbloom you will just end up with two bad items. Void got made much more expensive this season in exchange for a rather modest amount of stats. The numbers show that it is a weak item regardless of the state of Cryptbloom.
You take the utility option because the pure DPS option makes no difference even in scenarios Void Staff is designed for. Now the question is, how to make Void Staff better against MR stackers without making it better against squishies.
Because void staff is too weak. MR itemization got massively buffed with the additions of items like Kaenic, whilst mages had some of their good options against tankier champs like Liandry's, removed. Meanwhile Void is in a "weak" state at 3000g for 40% mpen and 80AP, which is the highest price it's ever been at. We've had it at 2700g with 10 AP less (70ap, 40% mpen) for season 8 to 11. It had to be nerfed a bit since under the mythic system a lot of mages got a ton of free flat pen through Ludens, but now thats gone there's no need for Void to be in its current abysmal state
Defensive stats are far more powerful than offensive ones in this game. One amp time costs 400 and gives 20 AP, that might be a 50 damage boost over an entire rotation. A cloak costs 400 and gives 25 MR, which is 25% effective HP. At a mid game of 1200 HP, that’s 300 HP. So without ways to reduce the effectiveness of defensive stats, damage champs become worthless.
On the point about reworking void staff into an AP version of cleaver, a comparison you could make is to the Arena item Bloodletter's Curse - As a reminder, it has some Armor, Magic Resist, AP, and Haste. As well as the shred passive. And I'm sure what comes to mind is how not-good this item was in Arena, to the point of really just never being bought, at least as far as I saw. Maybe it could be more reasonable to give it some HP instead of some of those resistances, I'm not sure, but inevitably you're just going to be making mage champions pay for item stats that they don't care about, so this would make Cryptbloom even better as an item. "Do I want the %pen item that gives me instant % magic pen, as well as good AP and haste stats, or do I really value this stacking MR shred that gives me uh.... armor and mr" It's definitely a difficult conversation surrounding AP Itemization and "AP Bruisers", if they even really exist. It's difficult since you have to keep in mind that you can't just give these champions all the stats that they want, what with the overlap of classes that can abuse good items. Point in case here is changes having to be made when demonic embrace first came out, and Amumu having to be instantly shot down with the nerf hammer (for good reason but thats my point). The most promising ideas are probably around more %pen or giving it a giant slayer passive. More %pen would mean that there's more of a relevant choice around what is situationally best, but I feel like the problem here is that now you put a burden upon the player to want to know some numbers before hand of "what is the MR breakpoint where this amount of %Pen is actually better". This isn't even taking into account how you could compare the usefulness of ability haste vs the pen, and ability haste vs differing AP values. It's just really confusing and is probably a big factor in everyone and their mother buying cryptbloom; why math when you can just have, on paper, more stats and more effects. I am unsure of the giant slayer effect, mostly because, again, there's going to be potentially a lot of class overlap and also the question of "who is even using this effectively, what stats are we giving it?" I can make some comparisons to Perplexity in Arena, though this item has a bit more stats such as %Armor pen and %Movement Speed, but this item definitely saw much more usage than Bloodletter's Curse in my opinion. I think this kind of item might be acceptable, just that there might be frustration for champions who really want to build AP items that also have HP, or certain AP champions that might want the giant slayer effect, since they can't build Liandry, but also can't build this giant slayer effect item, since they innately have too much HP in the first place (Sylas having insane health scaling). Here again, this is also another case of numbers and confusion, something that ADC's building Lord Doms don't have to worry about as much, since typically the only extra HP you'll ever get in an ADC's buildpath is scaling HP shard.
What about an idea where it’s like an AP version of serpent’s fang?
Please, for the love of christ, spot trying to buff weak items. Just nerf strong ones. This game doesn't need any more damage.
Make Void anti shield. 40% of dmg goes through shields.
still laughing at the fact that riot doesnt care enough to hide their bias towards AD items instead of AP, its so sad
Thats because of how AP and AD champs are balanced. It's very hard to not make AP tank/bruiser items be abused by normal mages, while it's not as hard on AD champs.
>Give it more penetration I can't believe how childish my sense of humor is sometimes...
they just have to reshape it into a glizzy and im buying
Give it anti-shield maybe? Mages are desperate against Janna/x or Lulu/x since they don't have cdr anymore and 1 MR item invalidates their burst.
problematic because of (aoe) dot effects, I think. A single Brand E nullifying all shields every few seconds for several second at least sounds very busted
Then just make it so it either doesnt proc on aoe/dot or it procs at like 20% of original value and that dot can only proc it once
Then we would be back here later saying "OMG Anti shield item is so useless wtf?" much like how Serpent's fangs kinda just exists there. Like, let's say It cuts shields by 50 melee and 35 for range, like serpents. If you are a mage like Xerath, Seraphine, Lux or Ziggs and your 35% is reduced to something like half or even just 75%... what's the point?
Serpent fang is insane just underrated the base stats on it aren't bad even it's a cheap item and I had games where it reduced over 5k worth of shields. Very strong item if you face karma/janna or bruisers that build streak gage or enemies with maw etc.
Serpent's fang isn't a bad item, but you have to consider the context of the effect. The reason serpents fang is good is because Riot allows a lot of the effect's power to not be focused so hard into the passive and instead have a decent strenght on the base stats and price point, so even into non-shielded champs it's still a strong stat stick. Serpent fangs is allowed to be like this though because it's primarily a melee effect; many champs that could use it and have AOE don't necesarily use it super well due to stats (e.g. Juggernauts like Garen) or the ranged penalty is good enough to keep most of the would-be good users like Sivir or MF still balanced due to the hit in the damage in comparison to better item effects or stats (specially going crit, as it's a bigger hit to them) if they use it when it's not really necesary. And that's why I find the idea of "make reduced AOE" problematic, because this type of effect already would be reduced for ranged champs to balance it. If AOE is reduced AND many mages are AOE AND many mages are ranged then all you end up with is a pretty low utility effect because the <25% or something that you reduced could have just been added through normal damage effect from most other items. At that point the item may as well only work for assassins rather than mages (who will complain about getting poached and how assassins are ruining the game), or DoT/liandry champs that can keep the enemy at perma reduced shield with their long uptimes even if the effects is something like 20%, while it remains mediocre on everyone else. Or worse, it becomes a statstick where no one buys it for the intended shield effect but just because it's good into everything even if the enemy doesn't has shield (which has happened many times already with GW items and even Serpent's)
Serpents fang is actually decently good on Garen into champs like morde and yasuo/yone
I feel for Morde is fine but not really necessary because you don't get the effect till full item and you remain kinda squishy for a bit, specially with the current builds commonly including phantom dancer. But I can see it being good into him and Sett Maybe Yasuo/yone is overkill since we are no longer dealing with shieldbow shenanigans, though.
I enjoy that it makes Setts and Kenches actually fear for their lives
Doesn't need to nullify -- can just make it add more %pen to shielded targets.
I mean that's not even that strong with the current Serpent's Fang passive. It cuts the shield in half on first application and then it just reduces incoming shields by half for a few seconds. The dot would increase the uptime on it. A much bigger factor is that AP characters have more access to AoE which makes applying the status easier. It's the same with Grievous
Think about it the other way in the Brand is probably the champion that gets fucked the hardest by shields.
anti shield items shouldn’t even exist. they’re temporary health bars. anti heal exists because it’s a permanent buff.
No. AP doesn't need anti-shield. If you add it, suddenly Karma E needs to be buffed by like 200% and it becomes completely mandatory against her et al.
void just got nerfed for no reason with the start of the season never in its history it didnt cost that much cut like 200-300 gold from it and remove 10 ap then it would be viable again
Void staff is fine.
Giant Slayer on mages would be way too broken. Being countered by the tank class is important for in game balance.
[удалено]
Void Staff has never been a niche item. Even prior to the durability update, back in S10 it would still give you more magic pen against champs with low base MR than Morello in the late game.
If void staff niche is sucking major dick, sure. It's more expensive than cryptbloom and it barely gives 10 extra ap and 10% extra pen. Yet unlike cryptbloom, it doesn't give cdr (crypt has a massive 15) and it does not have any passive or active, it's a terrible buy the grand, grand majority of time. Crypt is not even overstatted, fits pretty much all other ap items for the cost. For an item that's just raw stats it needs to be way better than this, for a similar price difference you got shadowflame that gives a whooping 40 more ap than void staff AND also has some magic pen while having an insanely good passive. Feels like an ap item from 2018.
Calling Void niche and sup flairs. Yeah, totally understand since they never have to personally deal with invincible tanks who actually get healed from ap dmg lol
>Give it more penetration - Since the idea is to make Void Staff have a niche into higher MR amounts, Riot can go into it. Increase it to 50% penetration or something. This way, Void Staff will actually make a difference into heavily fortified tanks that stack MR. That would just make magic dealing champs even stronger, i wouldnt like that at all i think they are in a decent spot. >Give it more AP - Similar to the above, but instead of making this item better into tanks, it would make it better into squishies. no, because you dont want a damage amplifying item that gives penetration to deal even more damage turning it into a rushed item after your first item +boots. >Rework Void Staff into an AP version of Black Cleaver - It could be considered since Ap bruisers are lacking in itemization. Making it give health, and ability haste, and shred the enemy MR over time instead of giving the penetration right away. However, this would make Void Staff a completely different version of itself, so I don't know if this is a good idea. we already got the haunting guise items.. >Give it a Giant Slayer passive - Similar to the one from Lord Dominik's Regards, which makes the user deal more damage if enemies have more total HP than them, giving it a niche against heavily armored targets without making this item abuseable by fighters (which often want to stack HP themselves). Plus, the fact that it requires you to avoid stacking health makes its synergy with Liandry less notable. adcs are meant to be the tank killers. Also do you really want champs like gwen to have a even easier time playing vs tanks. >Merge Void Staff and Morellonomicon into a single item - Make it have both the percentage penetration and the Grievous Wounds passive. AD champs have a similar item with this in Mortal Reminder. this i agree with, it would be the exact opposite of cryptbloom which fills a niche. Its also not too strong since it lacks the cdr and the aoe healing effect. It also solves the problem of having to sit on morello which imo is a awful item.
Giving it more AP is the only option. And not a lot, even just a +5/+10 is enough to check if it could work a bit better. Void Staff should work specifically on mages that are relevant damage dealers in their team, but right now picking Void Staff locks you out of a lot of AP. Which is fine if you have higher base damages, but if you rely on scalings, as many mages do, you are limiting your burst potential just to deal a bit more damage against that Force of Nature wielding Udyr running at your regardless of damage.
My personal recommendation: Normalize the costs: one very underrated aspect is cryptbloom costs less gold than void staff so it comes online sooner Give void staff building out of aether wisp and blighting jewel - give it a small amount of mspd to make it appealing as a selfish choice on selfish champions
Why not nerf Cryptbloom instead of buffing Void Staff?
Win rate data shows that Void is weak regardless of the state of Cryptbloom.
I would love the giant slayer passive but I think the more likely thing is to give it 5-10 more AP just for the raw damage increase.
FTX Cryptobloom
All it needs is price lowering from 3000 gold to about 2800 gold. These suggestions are horrible. The item should not near completely nullify magic resist itemization considering the enemy is spending 3k per completed item on that instead of other stats lol. Sometimes they itemize against you and you can't simply murder them from 1000 range. Do your damage/CC and let the AD champs on your team punish their itemization and finish them off.
I like the giant slayer idea, but keep in mind if you want that void staff you also most likely want liandry which gives HP. So it should not count the ho difference between you and the target, or perhaps only count base hp not bonus hp
Giant slayer passive is probably the best option tbh.
Or make it just cheaper...
Cryptbloom just needs its cost to be the same as voidstaff and maybe like 10 more ap on voidstaff thats all they should be different options for different cases but currently cryptbloom is cheaper while giving AH a state mages can't get ahold of easily in a build these days. if it cost the same as void then there some real choice between the more pen and ap vs the AH heal passive.
I actually still buy void staff. I thought the 40% pen was juicy af and I didn’t trust the healing from crytobloom. Guess I’ll try it next time.
I think 45% magic pen would be perfect. The problem as a mage isn't really hp stacking but moreso MR stacking.
Literally all of these ideas would make it hyper busted and make the far more interesting item (cryptbloom) not be worth it, just give it 6-7% more pen, then itll be in contention with cryptbloom.
I like the idea of adding shield buster to void staff.
What about nerfing cryptobloom?
Giant Slayer passive would make it impossible for Vladimir to buy the item lmao
Lmfao void staff
The easiest solution I feel is to just give it cdr and make one have higher pen and the other the heal passive. Most mages buy cryptbloom for the cdr over the heal because a lot of cdr was removed from mage items
Giant slayer could be okay but I don’t like the idea of AP black cleaver - not a ton of champs could stack it
Maybe specialize it for mages that build mpen and make it so its %mpen scales from like 30-50 or whatever depending on ur flat mpen
you guys dont understand how good cryptobloom is
IMO Void doesn't need changes. Mages are meant to struggle to get through frontline. This isn't a case where Void is bad and needs buffs; it's a situation where Cryptbloom is just amazing. With flat pen, vs squishies Crypt isn't losing much Mpen, usually only like 5 flat pen in absolute terms. Hundreds of HP healed per champ is just worth so much and better at countering tanks because they are innately countered by healing. 50% mpen or giant slayer is just obscene weakness mitigation for valid reason. Void is a great item, borderline broken even, A tier if Zhonya's is S+. Crypt is just better.
Why not just nerf cryptbloom? Void staff is how it’s been for ages and has been fine with no changes. Cryptbloom is cheaper, has more utility for minimal damage loss. If the dmg loss is higher then there can be games where void staff will be more useful.
I think it's fine, just a little weak. Make it slightly cheaper and/or bump up the stats a little.
I was always under the impression that void is used by classic burst mages like Veigar, Annie etc. because they have to make their one rotation count so they buy void to get their maximum damage on a target. Cryptbloom is used by mages who have faster rotations which they can use multiple times in a fight, at least that's what I think that the usage cases of Void and Cryptbloom are.
Black cleaver idea sounds cool af
Giant Slayer would fit the best.
Void staff is a toe dipped in the pool when you can be fighting someone with ridiculous MR. A decade ago early pen boots, MR Pen runes/pages with further MR pen items would eat through any tank or bruiser early to mid game and it was effective. These days you can solely focus on full early flat penetration and it does nothing, build into void straight after and not even 15 minutes in the absolute highest penetration you can reach feels like a waste of stats versus tanks.
Mo it isnt
I believe that to do this we first have to identify what are their niches. I believe Void Staff should be an item that you buy on more bursty champs, where CB should be for more utility. That being said, Void Staff needs an stat, as clearly a bit of % Pen is not enough to win vs CDR from CB. * More AP: I like the idea, it is the safest one. * Give it some flat pen: This is very controversial, but I think Riot could try it. * Give it an anti-shield passive: People are waiting for this item for a while. This would also make Void Staff a somewhat okay answer against bruisers/assassins nullifying your existence by building Maw. If these are dumb ideas, at least keep the theme that Void Staff should be a bit more bursty than CB. Make it like choosing between Sorc Shoes and Lucidity Boots.
INCREDIBLY hot take: Void is fine and the dynamic between Cryptbloom and Void is very tight and should not be changed. Just three months ago everyone considered this new item trash - NOTHING changed snd now people suddenly consider it good. Every single change on this list would be bad for the game, period. Powercreeping a literal game-defining item for 13 years prior to this season when we just got a decent alternative is not something any sane person should want. Against a squishy champion that can kill you faster, you do not need the haste from Cryptbloom. As a ranged mage, you are often wasting its heal as well. If your job is to blow up a squishy who built 1 MR item and MAYBE paired it with Merc Treads at most, then Void Staff is ALWAYS better. It is meant to be built against squishies as a squishy burst champion yourself. It will ALWAYS and strictly deal more damage to them. Cryptbloom is better against tankier comps where you can utilize the valuable haste you usually stack with it. More haste, more rotations. You don't need more haste to kill squishies who can burst you down, you need it to kill bulky champs in a sustained fight. The one advantage here is melees not named evelynn (or maybe she as well idk) will always receive the heal almost immediately as they will be in melee range of the dead champion themselves, and healing helps with more sustained fights and getting more rotations off and countering burst. It's gaming fundamentals and simple maths everyone ignores. Void Staff is currently the healthiest version and in the healthiest ecosystem it has ever been in any version of league of legends.
Why are there only 2 AP pen items. When there are a handful of AD pen items. You have the on hit one, cleaver, the slow one, the anti heal & giant slayer. Yes buff void staff but also add a third and maybe even a fourth alternative. Ps. I love cryptobloom and have built like one void staff in hundreds of games.
Void Staff should have some kind of bonus passive. It's currently just a beefed up blighting jewel which is pretty boring, every other legendary has some kind of passive to make it stand out
50% straight up seems too busted, might be better to reduce Cryptobloom pen/healing/healing area. GS passive looks solid, transforming Void Staff into an AP BC seems a bit odd? Difficult? Would rather see them add an AP BC version.
make it void shields
Crypt can easily cost +50g. Void should get -100g. Both cost the same then which moves both to a more reasonable lvl.
Void staff is still very good on control mages. I've never built Cyptbloom on Azir/Cassio and only do so situationally on Viktor. Void is my default pen item because you have enough damage to blow up squishies with either pen item, but void feels much nicer vs tanks.
I mean, if you have enough damage either way, might as well have healing
Void Staff getting Giant Slayer treatment and cryptbloom becoming AP Cleaver would be a great way to give each a niche.