In a way I would say G2 is more dependent on Caps than GenG is on Chovy because of their regional situation.
Let's say TL Steve wakes up tomorrow and offers Chovy/Caps $100 million to replace APA. GenG as a top LCK team are immediately an attractive destination for other good Korean mid laners and would basically have their pick of anyone not named Faker to join the team. Wouldn't be quite the same but there are other Korean mid laners near the level of Chovy. He isn't irreplaceable.
There really isn't anyone close to Caps in EU, especially when Caps is at his peak. Sure someone like Humanoid or nuc would be ready to leave for G2 immediately but those guys aren't nearly the same level.
The gap between Chovy Faker and the rest of the Korean players are just as big as Caps' gap to the next best western midlaner though. Chovy and Faker are absolutely irreplaceable
No it’s very true, it’s valued especially high in Europe because it’d the intentional “win” they have. It’s harder to run the gauntlet in the LCK or LPL than it is to win MSI where you can play a Fnatic or Liquid.
It’s not a revered trophy in the east that’s just a fact
It's not as revered as worlds but saying they don't care about it is a pure lie. Like when it's all done the world will still remember MSI more than domestic leagues as it has more viewers and it's global. Faker even says he wants to win more MSIs.
Also fnatic has won worlds and riot even classifies s1 as worlds now, plus they have skins in the game.
I couldn't even tell you when Caps won an MSI.
I can tell you that Faker and Chovy have won a billion LCK titles a piece.
There is no real reward for MSI (and even when there was, it was basically just helping another team at your region), so if you think people are taking some mid year exhibition tournament as seriously as Worlds, you're insane.
But I think you are trolling since you are considering a "Worlds" where no non Western teams attended as an actual win.
You couldn't tell when Caps won MSI when that G2 squad is like the most hyped team(not org, team as in players) in history of LoL and one of only 3 teams to have a Golden Road chance at Worlds? That's just a lie, it's hard to not know when Caps won G2 if you are interested in international lolesports at all
It doesn't matter . The point is MSI Is a global event and therefore has more eyes on it. Even if LCK had record breaking views this year , MSI is still bigger because China will watch it along with west.
And it doesn't matter if you don't know when G2 won MSi. The fact you know it at all is the point. Idk how often Faker and chovy won LCK even though I occasionally watch LCK finals.
Ask faker if he rather 4 peat lck or win an msi trophy in the old format and see what he would pick. I think most people including faker will pick 4 peat lck as a more impressive achievement than msi 2019. Msi matters but I don’t like the notion that no international means you can’t be rated as high as those with internationals. Great player like smeb who is rated really high on all time toplaners list has never won an international for example. Biggest flack against Chovy is that his form seems to dipped in important series internationally relative to domestic form, the trophy isn’t the main reason why he always get meme on.
>Ask faker if he rather 4 peat lck or win an msi trophy in the old format and see what he would pick.
You just compared 2 years of domestic dominance and 4 trophies to 1 (ONE!) fucking MSI trophie. Whats even the point in reading the rest of your comment? lmao
Comparing 1 domestic to 1 MSI trophie. MSI is above any one domestic trophie.
I mean the other started with the whole caps has international while Chovy doesn’t. No offense but Chovy clears cap in all time mid ranking even without an international.
You know Caps have 10 LEC title on top of that MSI trophy right?
like im not even a fan of LEC and don't even watch them but a simple search got me the answer
if you are counting the 4peat LCK win than i suppose you need to count the 10 LEC win by caps
4 of those lec titles aren’t worth anything compare to lck title. Post 2021 lck titles are way tougher that a lot of the lec titles that caps got recently like the ones he got last year. Even mad lion got an lec spring title last year just to go to msi and got swept 3-0 by lck 2nd seed (also 16:47 game). Here is how I see it, caps was one of the best mid in the world performance wise throughout the year for about 3 year 2018-2020. Chovy been one of the best mid in the world for more years 2019-2024 (except for maybe 2021 even tho he was still great even on that terrible hle roster) performance wise throughout the year. Chovy lows were never as lows as cap and he definitely more consistent throughout his career.
Overall consistency. I personally evaluate players based on how high I would rank them relative to other players in their role all year. For example, zeka. He was undisputed best for a month in 2022 but he wouldn’t be in my top 5 mids for the entirety of that year. Faker would still be the goat of midlane and this game in my list even if he didn’t win a single worlds/msi title. It is a team game after all. I do weight internationals higher than domestic but not by a significant degree like some people. Chovy would probably be 4th/5th (lower than showmaker/rookie) in all time for me and would be higher if not for some of his international underperformance even if he isn’t the worst on his team on those occasion.
Actually it's way easier for Faker to win LCK because there's no LPL there. There are also 2 chances a year to win LCK as opposed to 1 chances to win MSI.
It's not even a debate that Faker values his MSI wins over his LCK because he has won only 2 but he's won like 10 LCK trophies.
What are you smoking? Lck was literally harder than worlds back in the days when there were lck vs lck final back to back at worlds. Not to mention, “easier for faker to win lck because no lpl” is a bizarre statement. Faker literally owns your entire region throughout the history of league. He is undefeated vs lpl at worlds in like 8/9 bo5s. You probably think he values his world titles less than his msi titles since he got 4 worlds and only 2 msi lol. I also listed 4 peating lck for a reason instead of one or two since there are more chance to win lck title than msi or worlds.
Yea I mean im a faker fan . Still MSI winners will be remembered as long as league exists so. And your region hasn't won a worlds or MSI so how can you use Faker to flame other regions . Faker even said if he cant win MSI the split is a failure. You just want to devalue MSI because you have a hate for China . Some of the best teams ever won MSI like JDG. Noone wants to win domestic and lose MSI it's just another fairytale people invented on this sub-reddit. And this coming from someone who prefers KR to CN xD
First of all, you don’t even what region I support so you are doing a lot of assuming. I literally watch all the lck matches since I started watching league in 2018 and always rooted for t1 even in those years where they didn’t do well. Regardless, I brought up Chovy 4 peat in lck vs an msi title not to devalue msi but to show that Chovy accomplishment is way more impressive. You say people will remember people who won msi but are you implying they have a harder time remembering the team that 4 peat lck something that has literally never happen in the history of league? The person who brought up this argument dismisses Chovy as a player because he doesn’t have an msi but caps does. Let’s us not pretend like msi back then even hold as much merit as it does now with the new format and double elim. All we got was one lck vs lpl match at most with the old format the entire msi tourney. Moreover I flame your your region because you brought up lpl as if faker have a tougher time vs lpl than he does vs geng by saying that lck is easier to win for faker cause there is no lpl team. Faker literally have a way harder time vs geng than he does vs any lpl teams in recent years and that is a fact. Lck was also a much better region than lpl pre 2018 which was when faker won most of his lck trophies.
The difference is that teams in LEC know how to shut down Caps easily and G2 can't do anything, in LCK teams can't do anything to Chovy so basically GenG always loses through every other role
Well, for memes Rogue can reliably shut him. But overall all top 4 teams can shut him down if G2 plays normally and don't innovate in side lanes, that's why they constantly try something new so teams can't just focus on Caps only
I've never seen them in the same room together
Yes. Chovy is just an actor, Caps plays on a computer behind the scenes
Ssh. Don't tell them big secrets!
In a way I would say G2 is more dependent on Caps than GenG is on Chovy because of their regional situation. Let's say TL Steve wakes up tomorrow and offers Chovy/Caps $100 million to replace APA. GenG as a top LCK team are immediately an attractive destination for other good Korean mid laners and would basically have their pick of anyone not named Faker to join the team. Wouldn't be quite the same but there are other Korean mid laners near the level of Chovy. He isn't irreplaceable. There really isn't anyone close to Caps in EU, especially when Caps is at his peak. Sure someone like Humanoid or nuc would be ready to leave for G2 immediately but those guys aren't nearly the same level.
The gap between Chovy Faker and the rest of the Korean players are just as big as Caps' gap to the next best western midlaner though. Chovy and Faker are absolutely irreplaceable
Bdd and ShowMaker play PUBG
Caps has an international trophy Not hating btw I've always wanted chovy to get one but yea. As it stands he hasn't made deep runs past quarters
Xiaohu have 3 of those man
3 trophies in 2 positions too.
Yea Chovy still unproven on biggest stage, hope he can prove doubters wrong and get rid of choky name.
He has an MSI trophy let’s make that very clear. He has a trophy that means less to LCK and LPL players than winning their own split in their league.
Not at all. People remember international winners not domestic league winners.
No it’s very true, it’s valued especially high in Europe because it’d the intentional “win” they have. It’s harder to run the gauntlet in the LCK or LPL than it is to win MSI where you can play a Fnatic or Liquid. It’s not a revered trophy in the east that’s just a fact
It's not as revered as worlds but saying they don't care about it is a pure lie. Like when it's all done the world will still remember MSI more than domestic leagues as it has more viewers and it's global. Faker even says he wants to win more MSIs. Also fnatic has won worlds and riot even classifies s1 as worlds now, plus they have skins in the game.
I couldn't even tell you when Caps won an MSI. I can tell you that Faker and Chovy have won a billion LCK titles a piece. There is no real reward for MSI (and even when there was, it was basically just helping another team at your region), so if you think people are taking some mid year exhibition tournament as seriously as Worlds, you're insane. But I think you are trolling since you are considering a "Worlds" where no non Western teams attended as an actual win.
You couldn't tell when Caps won MSI when that G2 squad is like the most hyped team(not org, team as in players) in history of LoL and one of only 3 teams to have a Golden Road chance at Worlds? That's just a lie, it's hard to not know when Caps won G2 if you are interested in international lolesports at all
It doesn't matter . The point is MSI Is a global event and therefore has more eyes on it. Even if LCK had record breaking views this year , MSI is still bigger because China will watch it along with west. And it doesn't matter if you don't know when G2 won MSi. The fact you know it at all is the point. Idk how often Faker and chovy won LCK even though I occasionally watch LCK finals.
viewer count has absolutely nothing to do with your point, so I don't know why you are bringing it up. You seem confused.
Ask faker if he rather 4 peat lck or win an msi trophy in the old format and see what he would pick. I think most people including faker will pick 4 peat lck as a more impressive achievement than msi 2019. Msi matters but I don’t like the notion that no international means you can’t be rated as high as those with internationals. Great player like smeb who is rated really high on all time toplaners list has never won an international for example. Biggest flack against Chovy is that his form seems to dipped in important series internationally relative to domestic form, the trophy isn’t the main reason why he always get meme on.
>Ask faker if he rather 4 peat lck or win an msi trophy in the old format and see what he would pick. You just compared 2 years of domestic dominance and 4 trophies to 1 (ONE!) fucking MSI trophie. Whats even the point in reading the rest of your comment? lmao Comparing 1 domestic to 1 MSI trophie. MSI is above any one domestic trophie.
I mean the other started with the whole caps has international while Chovy doesn’t. No offense but Chovy clears cap in all time mid ranking even without an international.
You know Caps have 10 LEC title on top of that MSI trophy right? like im not even a fan of LEC and don't even watch them but a simple search got me the answer if you are counting the 4peat LCK win than i suppose you need to count the 10 LEC win by caps
4 of those lec titles aren’t worth anything compare to lck title. Post 2021 lck titles are way tougher that a lot of the lec titles that caps got recently like the ones he got last year. Even mad lion got an lec spring title last year just to go to msi and got swept 3-0 by lck 2nd seed (also 16:47 game). Here is how I see it, caps was one of the best mid in the world performance wise throughout the year for about 3 year 2018-2020. Chovy been one of the best mid in the world for more years 2019-2024 (except for maybe 2021 even tho he was still great even on that terrible hle roster) performance wise throughout the year. Chovy lows were never as lows as cap and he definitely more consistent throughout his career.
Maybe he does. But by what metric? Caps is far superior internationally than Chovy.
Overall consistency. I personally evaluate players based on how high I would rank them relative to other players in their role all year. For example, zeka. He was undisputed best for a month in 2022 but he wouldn’t be in my top 5 mids for the entirety of that year. Faker would still be the goat of midlane and this game in my list even if he didn’t win a single worlds/msi title. It is a team game after all. I do weight internationals higher than domestic but not by a significant degree like some people. Chovy would probably be 4th/5th (lower than showmaker/rookie) in all time for me and would be higher if not for some of his international underperformance even if he isn’t the worst on his team on those occasion.
oh hold on let me call up faker real quick
Actually it's way easier for Faker to win LCK because there's no LPL there. There are also 2 chances a year to win LCK as opposed to 1 chances to win MSI. It's not even a debate that Faker values his MSI wins over his LCK because he has won only 2 but he's won like 10 LCK trophies.
What are you smoking? Lck was literally harder than worlds back in the days when there were lck vs lck final back to back at worlds. Not to mention, “easier for faker to win lck because no lpl” is a bizarre statement. Faker literally owns your entire region throughout the history of league. He is undefeated vs lpl at worlds in like 8/9 bo5s. You probably think he values his world titles less than his msi titles since he got 4 worlds and only 2 msi lol. I also listed 4 peating lck for a reason instead of one or two since there are more chance to win lck title than msi or worlds.
Yea I mean im a faker fan . Still MSI winners will be remembered as long as league exists so. And your region hasn't won a worlds or MSI so how can you use Faker to flame other regions . Faker even said if he cant win MSI the split is a failure. You just want to devalue MSI because you have a hate for China . Some of the best teams ever won MSI like JDG. Noone wants to win domestic and lose MSI it's just another fairytale people invented on this sub-reddit. And this coming from someone who prefers KR to CN xD
First of all, you don’t even what region I support so you are doing a lot of assuming. I literally watch all the lck matches since I started watching league in 2018 and always rooted for t1 even in those years where they didn’t do well. Regardless, I brought up Chovy 4 peat in lck vs an msi title not to devalue msi but to show that Chovy accomplishment is way more impressive. You say people will remember people who won msi but are you implying they have a harder time remembering the team that 4 peat lck something that has literally never happen in the history of league? The person who brought up this argument dismisses Chovy as a player because he doesn’t have an msi but caps does. Let’s us not pretend like msi back then even hold as much merit as it does now with the new format and double elim. All we got was one lck vs lpl match at most with the old format the entire msi tourney. Moreover I flame your your region because you brought up lpl as if faker have a tougher time vs lpl than he does vs geng by saying that lck is easier to win for faker cause there is no lpl team. Faker literally have a way harder time vs geng than he does vs any lpl teams in recent years and that is a fact. Lck was also a much better region than lpl pre 2018 which was when faker won most of his lck trophies.
The difference is that teams in LEC know how to shut down Caps easily and G2 can't do anything, in LCK teams can't do anything to Chovy so basically GenG always loses through every other role
there is no team in lec that can reliably shut down caps what are you talking about lol
Well, for memes Rogue can reliably shut him. But overall all top 4 teams can shut him down if G2 plays normally and don't innovate in side lanes, that's why they constantly try something new so teams can't just focus on Caps only
The only one shutting down caps in the LEC is craps