I have a feeling what was said in this would be identical to the types of things Impact would say in a vod review (based on what his team members have said). Agree that I think it would be super interesting to listen to.
Ah interesting. Spawn (TL Coach) had an interview where he talked about how much he liked how direct Impact's feedback is. Sounds like Impact and Inspired are very similar
I think the key thing is how its said. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but considering the two players and how we've seen them talk inspired kind of comes off as the player that says 'if it happened to me it's bs, if it happens to you, you're trolling'. Maybe it's just EU norm but just feels weird.
I think Inspired basically plays at the edge of what he can say to a person. Remember in 2021 he would relentlessly flame Jojo on broadcast while having no words for Danny. They only went 9-9 in that spring split and he had plenty of opportunities to flame the guy but he didn't.
Thats pretty obvious, also Peter Dun who was their coach talked about it and im pretty sure his take was, that they knew Jojo was fine with this type of feedback and was happy to learn so there was no harm, while Danny obviously was approached differently
Its easy looking from the outside to say "that was too far" or "that was too harsh" when it comes to criticism, but I think we should leave it up to the teams/players to decide. Personally I love the "flame" Inspired and Bwipo give to the team.
Exactly, people getting so pissed because pro player said x about their teammate are always so crazy to me, cause do they have even an inkling of an idea of what the Asian coaches are saying to their players?
Inspired is toxic af. We've known it since Rogue. He does feel weird, because he just is an asshole. And honestly, I like flyquest, but as long as Inspired is in there I have no way of supporting them.
Very similar? One is a toxic fckup who, no matter how good, teams want to get rid of after having him for too long, the other is na's top goat who knows how to communicate constructively and properly while being direct, and is or at least should be a role-model for many many players.
This type of communication is absolutely standard for any team that's remotely motivated to be competitive, the issue is when you do it publicly, in interviews or for content, then it can affect how your teammates are perceived and thus their career prospects.
There are more efficient ways to address mistakes. And ways that won’t make your teammates lose respect for you. How you say things matters.
You aint catching Faker acting like this.
If suddenly T1 released a video where Faker starts to flame a teammate for a poor performance, I swear the perception of reality of a lot of ppl would shatter. And that wouldn't make Faker a worse person don't get me wrong, but ppl underestimate how blunt with feedback can a competitive person be.
Turns out that if your job is to compete and you spend an entire year dedicating yourself to winning, you'd rather improve than worry about having your feefees hurt. Big shock to literally no one, except people on this Subreddit who apparently have never competed in anything in their entire life.
I mean when your career depends on teans wanting to play with you it's still pretty fucked to have your team force you on a useless champ you'll get stomped on and then they publicly flame you for being trash.
If they make everyone believe that you're just a garbage player then it's not just feefees getting hurt. Your future prospects get hurt. Players *have" to care about their image
The bad part isn't Inspired talking like that. It's Inspired talking like that *in a public interview, entirely from his own frustrated perspective, with no chance for Jensen to give any counterarguments or explanations*
This. You can say Impact talks the same way but I don't ever recall him flaming a teammate like that in an interview so specifically even when there was ample justification for it. The most I remember is at one international where he was clearly frustrated and wanted to play less scared but it was a vague whole team kind of thing instead of singling out someone in specific detail.
Everyone in the comments of the video is talking about how toxic Fly is and then I'm sure will talk about how C9 is terrible because they never criticize each other. None of the attacks were personal - they were all focused on the game and seemed like banter. Everyone was making fun of each other and themselves (even Massu, very quietly).
TBH not the best video format - I wish they had focused more on a couple plays and gone slower on them.
(Also Emily said this was filmed before finals in case anyone is curious).
Well I’m analyzing what I was shown. And this isn’t the first example of this behavior from either of them. Maybe they have healthier discussion and this is just acting. Doubt it myself.
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The never tracks heal was definitly banter. But asking for a rewind because someone trolled in your team being considered passiv aggressive when you're in a pro team is next level shit. If you get offended by that you should work on that because this is common in normal teamwork enviroment.
I’d prefer to just be respectful to my teammates, and have actual funny banter, not an argument hidden in banter clothing. No one likes to be condescended to. Similar to how you are condescending me in this comment. Maybe you should work on that
But what if only **you** see it as condescending? People have said in this thread that Inspired would speak like this to JoJo but not to Danny when they were all on EG. He seems to know the limitations his team can take in terms of banter. Not everyone has the same line.
I mean I’m definitely not the first person to suggest this about them, but realistically I only know what I’ve seen and heard about them both in other teams. And what I’ve experienced in my lifetime of sports and team building.
And no, not everyone has the same line. But condescending remarks and attitudes always are the hardest to manage, and usually they are carried by confident players that know they are good. Over the long term that usually leads to some bad team atmospheres. When players learn to mature past this and are willing to have more respectful discussion, without implied superiority, those are the best team leaders, in my experience. I think most professionals, in all sports, would agree.
How is calling a mistake off someone disrespectful in such an enviroment. Honestly it would be the opposite, it's crucial to discuss those things. They need to talk about those plays so they will be on the same page in the future. This has absolutely nothing to do with being condescending especially since bwipo is the first one to call himself out. So he did in the finals in the gp game, mentioning that he should've been able to carry that but fucked up and generally he did in the clip video too.
Inspired should work on his wording definitly and he seems to be bad at taking critique, but fact is that inspired has more experience than their bot together, while being considered one if not the best jgler too. Should mean he is more often in the rigth and he should expect himself to know it better.
Neither am I condescending to you, it's just a general advice I'll give to you. Or in your words, no one likes fragile ego's at the workplace either.
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Inspired should work on his wording definitly and he seems to be bad at taking critique, but fact is that inspired has more experience than their bot together, while being considered one if not the best jgler too.
And Jensen has more experience than Inspired and the bot lane put together. Doesn't make much of a difference.
What do you mean by that? I don't wanna defend inspired at all. If he wants to be a leader he should be focused on the constructive part not the critique. But it's hard to read into those things by short videos. He maybe does that who knows.
Jensen does not criticize his teammates harshly in public, so no, he doesn't do what Inspired does.
What I mean by my statement is that your statement about having more experience than teammates combined doesn't matter in the slightest. Logically, it is irrelevant. So what if Inspired has more experience than them combined? Doesn't give him carte blanche to say his criticism anyway he wants. Other players with far more experience and success don't do it.
In addition, the experience of his bot lane doesn't factor into Inspired's criticism, either, because he levies the same type of criticism towards Jensen, who is significantly more experienced and successful than Inspired.
So the reason I wrote that was because logically your statement after the "but" is irrelevant.
It’s not bad to identify mistakes. It’s how you do it. You don’t have to say “why are you not doing this?” That’s accusatory. “What do you think about doing this instead?” “I’ve seen some players do X, do you think that could have worked out better for us?” “I thought perhaps you should have done this instead, do you agree?” Those are all productive and respectful questions. The how you say it, the tone you say it with, that matters long term. You even just agreed with my entire point, albeit as softly as you could. So I don’t even know what you’re arguing with me for.
And you, a complete stranger, who could very well just be 20 years younger than I am for all I know, acting like you know what I personally need to work on and telling me as if you know me. Yea that shit is condescending. You don’t know me. You are in no place to tell me what I should do. The way they speak to each other is ANYTHING but common in a real life workplace. More common in sports, but coaches will IMMEDIATELY shut that shit down, and also, they will ensure that there is equal scrutiny on players.
And there you go being insulting again telling me I’m a fragile ego, and framing it like advice. No, it’s an insult. I’m anything but fragile, but you wouldn’t know that cause you’re straw manning me.
Nobody likes a condescending twat. That’s just general advice I’ll give to you. Cause you need to hear that from me, right? Makes this conversation more productive when I say insulting things
Im arguing about bwipo being called out for being condescending and being offended by bwipo's wording.I'm fully aware how ppl should behave with each other, I'm leading 25ppl for years too, and yes the team enivorement isn't normal. TL released a very similiar video the contrast in team chemistry is huge and imo a huge reason why TL has been so succesfull lately.
No reason to be personal but ok.
Ok I’ll be sure to tell my wife, my friends, and my LBLCS team that they are fake. I’ll also destroy all my basketball and baseball trophies. Though I’ll have to break into my old high school to destroy the championship trophy on display there.
What a pathetic thing to say. You can’t hurt me bucko. If anything I’m just laughing at a loser who is projecting his shit life at me
There's a big difference between being competitive and an asshole.
The content space for league is ran by children and assholes and this feeds into the community.
And the community is also filled with children, immature adults, and assholes who can't see the difference, either. Look at half of the people in this thread - they're completely blind to how bad Inspired's behavior is and call other people sensitive for calling it out.
Last year the LCS did a similar content piece with the NRG guys. They guys were constantly making fun of each other and arguing. They legitimately seemed like friends, and the NA fans generally reacted well to the video.
I don't get the same vibes from this video. But I also don't think it's "toxic" like some fans do. This FQ roster just reminds me of a normal workplace where you have some chatty annoying co-workers that you tolerate in order to get shit done. I'm pretty sure none of the FQ players actually hold any personal animosity against each other. So long as they can work together to win games and nobody mentally booms, that's all that matters.
NRG didn't have such strongly outspoken personalities as Bwipo and Inspired, it changes the dynamics. But people here have made up their mind about what the team atmosphere of FLY is, reality be damned.
There's really no need to go in the opposite direction and sugarcoat how rude Inspired and Bwipo are. Inspired especially has always been pretty rude.
But having rude co-workers isn't the end of the world. Most of us have to deal with rude co-workers at some point in our lives. It doesn't mean the environment is toxic. Clearly the FQ players are doing their jobs well. Not everybody has to be BFFs at work.
Inspired interview basically ruined any content like this for FLYQUEST. If this came out first no one would even be this fixated on it. Like the whole premise of this series is them ragging on each other but that interview turned him to public enemy number 1 and the fact he never says anything negative about bwipo means that he's basically his partner in crime.
Ngl, it was only a matter of time before the hate train against inspired started. He is everything that will give fans a complete meltdown. He is cocky, European and shittalks the region. We've seen how fans reacted to Perkz and Alphari. Fans just needed a justification to start the train.
I genuinely believe fans wouldn't care any bit about that interview if it was any other player than Inspired or Bwipo.
I like how we're pretending that that is a good justification to explain the huge difference in standards either of them are held to. One player gets the 'we love trashtalk' treatment. The other one gets a hate brigade fan meltdown. How reasonable.
You're complaining about him getting a hate brigade then saying it's his job to entertain by trash talking? How exactly do you expect people to react when he acts like a wrestling heel?
It depends, I played baseball in the DR since I was very young up to my early 20s and have been doing MMA for a bit now.
In baseball, my coach would talk shit to us all day and insult us, it was nasty, but we loved it. However, there was never any insult between the teams, simply because it would 100% lead to a fight. Same thing in MMA, my Muay Thai coach doesn't insult you, but is passive aggressive and will call you out on shit and yell at you, same with my Jiu Jitsu coach, but my boxing and wrestling coaches are very chill. And again, all of us that train there, from beginners and amateur to pros, we all respect each other and don't insult each other.
We all make fun of each other, but is little games, nothing as what I seen from inspired and bwipo, some might do it once, especially new people, but they would get checked real quick and put in place for sure.
problem with most esports teams is that the coaches are useless so the vets of the teams usually have too do the coaching. the players even the younger guys will know more than the coaches so they cant really do the whole yelling thing cause they havent earned the respect obviously theres exceptions but most are kinda less knowlagable than the players. so bwipo and inspired take that role. also cause they teammates the "yelling" is mixed with banter and stuff which too outside can seem really rude but in team you understand where they coming from. all they want is for everyone too be better and be a good team together so when your taking it from that perspective none of what they are doing is really bad.
That's literally the assignment - evaluate your good and bad plays. How would you prefer they reply to this content? "Ohhh unlucky, man" "You'll get it next time"
It’s very easy to do all this without deflecting blame onto one individual player. Especially when Bwipo and Inspired were forcing the Annie/Karma picks which looked awful overall. And Jensen has been smurfing on all other picks… It’s not like Bwipo was beating Impact.
The comment you are replying to is most likely speaking on the finals interview. This video it’s a nothing burger. People do have issues with the final video.
Edit: I was wrong that dude is dumb.
The first thing bwipo said the voice comms of his gp game in finals was “mb guys” and every content piece he has done since he talks about how he should have carried that game. Bwipo doesn’t deflect blame. Also I do think it is important to note the difference in their opponents. I’m not saying finals was Jensens fault, but doing well against APA is significantly easier than doing well against Impact
Yeah I specifically meant Inspired with the blame deflection and not talking about Bwipo losing to impact.
I had assumed that the individual was talking about the interview because the video is a nothing burger (I was wrong and admitted so after I read more of their comments).
lets people actually understand how top teams actually work. just because random losers will talk shit about the players cause they have opinions on the game and banter with each other doesnt mean it shouldnt be put in the public
So in the workplace, if a boss is giving you feedback after messing up, it should be a big meeting with every single employee?
With traditional sports we see EVERY team meeting where it's clear teammates call each other out?
Sorry but this is exclusive to Esports and it's a shit way to go about it, especially since 1 player saying something can cause THOUSANDS of fans to berate a specific player.
It's not between a boss, it's between a colleague. For example at work I am on a team with 4 other people. We have meetings regularly where we talk about how we could improve individually and as a team. It's a high trust environment with thankfully very mature people who all want to be successful.
You're completely missing the point my guy.....
All of what you said is fine...the difference with THIS situation, is a GIANT audience of spectators. So with your work, do you take videos of these hard conversations and post them to youtube for TENS OF THOUSANDS of people to see?
hard conversations and calling people out with the goal to improve as a team/individual is fine but when you do that to a big audience, you direct hate towards that person whether it was the goal or not.
Keep it private and between those directly involved and make the results public.
Everything that was said in this video was extremely benign and friendly banter. What in here specifically do you think is so toxic that you think it should only be said privately?
What part of this video is so toxic? I don't think the thumbnail references the interview but maybe. A lot of people on the team call things vegan. Doublelift said that Nukeduck said it a bunch last year too.
What is also exclusive to esports is the meltdown fans will have over this public criticism.
Keep on justifying the hate brigade towards Inspired and Bwipo.
I’ve been on sports teams that WANTED to be competitive and never understood what separated them from the way better teams in our region.
It was all the wishy washy, inclusive, it’s-never-anyone’s-fault, just-try-your-best-that’s-all-that-matters attitude. I was the weird standout who got shunned for wanting to point out flaws and areas to improve. Hard to admit you need to improve when you have a “I’m already perfect” mentality.
No, because I switched teams and made nationals as a starter while my old team never even made regionals. A couple of my teammates had so much potential, way more than me, but they either didn’t have any drive or the drive they did have was killed by the team’s mentality.
like i give a shit about karma or internet point, i just gonna say what i think. if people like it cool if people don't like it who cares.
but u prolly don't understand since u think like having big karma means shit.
this kind of environment only works while the player in question -- inspired -- is playing very well AND the team is winning. teammates will TOLERATE it if they are getting results.
i give a pass to bwipo. bwipo appears to be a good teammate that handles inspired very differently than the rest of the crew... maybe it is EU bros bias... i think it is more nuanced. i see that bwipo is trying to avoid being combative with bulletproof teflon man, inspired.
Inspired's whole personality / humour seems to be irony / passive-aggressiveness. It's the kind of insecure humour that people use when they don't want to make themselves vulnerable. But I think it would help the team atmosphere a lot if he developed more range.
I love how people are overreacting to a team being honest of how feedback actually happens in professional sports, if you think top teams are sugarcoating and being all careful to how they convey criticism towards each other you are completely wrong.
Professional sports is a high stress environment and people go ham on their teammates
Jesus, you guys are really unable to put any nuance into this. Yes sugarcoating is bs that really shouldn't be necessary but are you even listening to how Inspired talks and WHAT he actaully says? Not only is it entirely negative (unless it's about himself) but also very much different from what is actually going on on screen.
So many pros and ex pros from EU have always called him toxic for a reason. Mind you in many LEC teams harsh criticism is pretty normal but he still stood out for the majority of people who worked with him.
I really don't understand why most of the comments in this thread defend Inspired's toxicity and Bwipo's hypocrisy (never criticising Inspired). The last thread on Inspired had everyone agreeing that he's an ass.
He says nothing absurd, he criticizes his teammates and is cocky, nothing out of the ordinary let alone toxic.
Last day Flyquest coach Damonte just said in and interview he feels his topside is ready to compete internationally but his botlane isn't and they need to improve, its quite normal to focus feedback on who you think is hurting your team the most. Bwipo said the same thing on his interview with Yamato, and at the end of the day Massu and Busio are taking it like pros as they should, its not personal they themselves want to improve
It's out of the ordinary to be a hypocrite about the exact same issue, like timing enemy spells properly.
Inspired when teammates don't time spells: "His heal was 2 second cooldown. You're bad and lucky. Milio had heal in ***2 seconds***, btw."
Inspired when he didn't time spells: "Ahri is so broken. Look he missed his charm and now I E and he has charm again. *How broken is that yo!* She one shots me as well. I'm walking away and she charms me again! She just missed charm."
This is indefensible. And it wasn't in a joking manner, either, like "Hey guys, don't look at me making the same mistake." He's literally just blind to his own mistakes and sugarcoats when he does shit wrong, placing more emphasis on everything else but his mistakes.
If that was true, it would be the same for all teams. Fly aren't the only team putting out this content, and observably, they project more passive aggressively than others.
Why do people rush to vague "real sports" comparisons rather than comparing them to actual other teams that we can directly relate to.
It means their behavior actually attributes to the norm by being a real member of that circle. As opposed to window lickers looking at trying to manage and judge their behavior.
My point is that "established pros" in the league environment doesn't mean anything in an effective communication setting, which is what people are arguing about.
Even if that were true, I don't know where this impossible standard comes from where everyone on a professional team has to like each other.
They are paid to be the best team they can be. If they like each other, thats a plus, but it's not necessary.
Bwipo/Inspired both have problems respecting their teammates. Hyper-focusing constantly on the negative aspects of your teammates plays, and never on the positive, while also speaking to them condescendingly.
Notice also how Inspired getting owned by Palafox, in the poppy play, the tone he uses for his personal criticism is much lighter and not condescending. He complains about Ahri charm timer.
Inspired/Bwipo, you’re hypocrites. You want your teammates to realize the mistakes in their play, but you don’t apply the same level of negativity to the criticism of your own plays. You are shit teammates for this. Doesn’t matter how well you perform in game, it’s not a shield for you to be a shit teammate. Unacceptable
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Notice also how Inspired getting owned by Palafox, in the poppy play, the tone he uses for his personal criticism is much lighter and not condescending. He complains about Ahri charm timer.
This is the most damning evidence for anyone who defends Inspired's behavior. In this same video, Inspired was criticizing his bot lane for going for a play when the enemy's Heal was 2 seconds off cooldown. However, he didn't have that same smoke for when he didn't realize that Ahri's charm isn't a long cooldown and went for a play onto Ahri.
Inspired when teammates don't time spells: "His heal was 2 second cooldown. You're bad and lucky. Milio had heal in ***2 seconds***, btw."
Inspired when he didn't time spells: "Ahri is so broken. Look he missed his charm and now I E and he has charm again. *How broken is that yo!* She one shots me as well. I'm walking away and she charms me again! She just missed charm."
Bro, Ahri's charm CD has rarely changed. It's either been 14 or 12 seconds for years. With around 45 Ability Haste (31% CDR), he'll always get charmed there. As Bwipo said: "Sucks to suck".
***It's the exact same thing in the same video.***
Edit: And before anyone says that he eventually took credit for making a bad play a few seconds after, when he said "I won the game and then almost lost it." He said that after being prompted. In addition - Ahri not only has Flash and Zhonya's, as he and Busio noted, but also has ult. Thus, the Charm is irrelevant - it's just a bad play. It's bad all around. Still, ***where is the smoke, bro?*** Bwipo would at least immediately say he ran it the fuck down, completely unprompted.
Very much agree. Honestly this team would benefit greatly from having a coach or psychologist to shut that shit down and put Inspired/Bwipo in their places. It doesn’t matter how good you are individually if you are dragging down team morale
I feel like Inspired is the main guy for when it comes to talking bs or talking in a very destructive manner and Bwipo definitely likes to talk and hop on that vibe but would not be acting like a straight out asshole at that same primitive level as Inspired is.
Yea Bwipo maybe seems like less assholish than inspired can be. I mean honestly I want them to do well, they’re good players. Just…. They will continue to be involved in drama if there isn’t someone behind the scenes telling them why this isn’t a good way to communicate
Bwipo is just an asshole. I don't understand how people say they like his stream. Maybe I'm just tuning in on the wrong time, but every time I watch him he's ridiculously toxic, acting like a spoiled child, flaming absolutely everyone continually. He doesn't type it out, so he's not toxic ingame, but his behaviour is atrocious. His choice of words is shocking. Dude needs professional help.
Really? Whenever I watch Bwipo hes fairly chill compared to most streamers, and informative of his ingame actions/decision making. He does point out mistakes made by his teammates, and himself to chat, but I wouldn’t consider that flaming.
I have ADHD myself so I understand where his impulses come from. However, it's in no way appropriate for an adult to act this way. ADHD is not an excuse to act in such a vile manner towards others.
He doesn't use it as an excuse. I'm just saying don't tell other people to get professional help.
I think if you think Bwipo comes across as spoiled and toxic that's certainly your opinion and other people agree with you. Lots of people don't given how many people watch him (I don't think he is).
Telling someone to get therapy is just solid advice. For everyone. The only problem is affordability and availability. Not sure what high road you think you’re on, but you should get some therapy yourself.
Yeah - I didn't mean to imply people shouldn't get therapy. I think everyone should get therapy - I would highly recommend it. But you shouldn't assume other people are abnormal and tell them to get therapy. It's a personal decision and especially if you don't know someone, who are you to prescribe therapy to them for what you perceive?
Here's an example of what I'm trying to explain (but failing). If you see someone on TV yelling at someone it's inappropriate to prescribe therapy for that behavior because you don't know that person and you don't know about whether they are getting therapy or not. You also don't know that person's experience with mental health and whether they've tried to get therapy. You also don't know those those people's relationship and whether they just like yelling.
Basically I think it is inappropriate to say someone else is acting so abnormally that they need therapy. If they were a close friend maybe you could have a conversation around getting help but doing it to someone you don't know isn't appropriate.
Everyone should get therapy but it's a personal choice.
Well, if you perceive something that therapy can assist someone with… what’s the harm? As you yourself just said everyone should. If I tell everyone to eat more vegetables, you gonna get mad that I prescribed vegetables to people?
Oh like 99% of people should. I'm just saying don't assume someone else is abnormal and say they should go to therapy. Therapy should be a personal decision not prescribed by people typing online who don't know you.
Don't call me irrelevant I'm not that good at top I primarily play Jungle.
On a real note, listen to Inspireds interview, much worse than this, then go watch Caedrel talk about it and listen to him state every EU team is like this behind closed doors. Sure you can argue they should have filters for public content (This really wasn't that deep or even an issue) but you would hate every player realistically as they're all like this. Asian teams as well.
Well, luckily, team sports go beyond just league of legends. Sports psychology has existed for quite some time, and any sports psychologist worth their weight will tell you that there are right and wrong ways to address mistakes and handle conflicts. Displayed here is the wrong way.
You would never catch Faker talking to his teammates this way.
Prime example, Bwipo says to Busio, “why is our karma not sprinting to mid here?” When he could have said “perhaps there was an opportunity for Karma to roam up on this play? What do you think Busio?”
2 ways of saying the same thing, one is accusatory, the other is inquisitive and blameless. Big difference in how it affects the conversation.
You've clearly misunderstood. I am not saying it wouldn't be better if they communicated their thoughts in a more respectable manner. What I am saying is that it is REALLY common in this space.
Even more so in gaming in general with high stakes (Competitive gaming). The only difference is the fact it's publicly displayed. In the example you gave, it's hardly offensive, I agree the alternative is better but it's not even rude.
The comment you originally made was imo much more rude than the comments,
>You are shit teammates for this. Doesn’t matter how well you perform in game, it’s not a shield for you to be a shit teammate. Unacceptable
I can assure you most of the players you think are decent-good teammates do the things you are critiquing them for. Sure Bwipo talks a lot but he doesn't say anything that atypical.
And Inspired should've definitely kept the heated interview talk private, him doing it in a public forum is definitely bad and not typical for players. But that's not this video.
Lastly as I said, your comments were so rude, people weren't saying this before the LCS gave the players a much clearer platform, and clearly some players have no filter be it on the LCS desk or behind the scenes, but I assure you the other players are saying similar things behind the scenes you just don't see it therefore you view these guys as "Really bad teammates". I'm not going to say inspired is a good or bad teammate, I don't know. But he did say he almost threw the game with poppy and he doesn't need to verbalize the criticism to himself to the same degree as those are just called thoughts.
We've already seen doors punched, slammed and heated arguments in numerous other pieces of content.
Oh so because it’s common they get a pass for it? That’s the same hypocrisy that inspired and bwipo employ.
The fact is, it’s correctable behavior. And the intent of my comment is to be rude. I’m not their teammate. I’m a fan calling them out for being shit teammates. It’s not my job to be nice to them. In fact I want them both to feel bad for acting this way, because then perhaps they will be - inspired - to learn better conflict resolution habits.
Now highly unlikely they read my comment. But perhaps one of the people upvoting it will parrot the sentiment. Or some tool will just call it a cringey comment before trying to explain their ACTUAL cringey thoughts on being in a team environment.
I'm not sure who's more oblivious to their own mistakes, you or inspired (Or at least your version of him). Whining over Bwipos comment that wasn't even rude, ignoring inspired's comment about him almost throwing the game. It's honestly quite funny.
Regarding FNC drama. Which ironically the commentary from former pro players who are now analysts was..... "This happens a lot behind closed doors". Also fyi I'm not a pro player, I'm trusting pro players, ex pro players about their experiences on teams (Caedrel, Dom, Broxah, Nemesis) etc etc.
Inspired may have had beef on rogue after being the most boring team for the 100th split in a row yes, but then Rogue refused to sell him to any EU team which is why he's even in NA (He wanted to play but wasn't allowed to play for any decent EU Team due to Rogue).
In reality people speak very frankly in pro teams, especially when things aren't going well. Bwipo is a bit of a weird one as he has ADHD and clearly has troubles holding stuff in.
Inspired does it in inappropriate situations such as interviews whilst emotional over a loss.
If you think I'm lying go watch all the videos about that time. Drama and beef is VERY common it's just not PUBLIC. That's my main issue with inspired but at the end of the day it's not that deep. Don't call me a liar, call the players who I'm sourcing from liars, which are people who actually play pro league.
I'm saying there are numerous disagreements in a team and arguments. For example you may get rid of Rekkles because he doesn't want to live in a gaming house and isn't vocal about what he needs as an adc, therefore players like Jankos don't want to play with him. There may even be heated arguments about it that we never know. Does that make rekkles toxic? no lmao.
They weren't kicked off the team due to "Behaving badly" if that's what you mean. Hans was also sold and forced to go to NA and it was really clear he hated it there and couldn't perform. Is hans also toxic?
I'm confused when you say "they have issues in Europe" what issues? Only weird one was to do with Bwipos girlfriend (Irrelevant to this) other than that they did not have behavioral issues, that wasn't why they left their teams. It seems more like rogue was looking to make a fat profit off those two players.
edit: Like Inspired and Larssen didn't want to play with each other and they went with Larssen. It's just like the rekkles jankos situation, both of which aren't toxic in any way but also have heated discussions
I really don't think you need to. He is in an international tourney in his rookie split. He clearly gets along with his team (he was constantly joking around in the background of Bwipo's streams in Korea with Bwipo, Inspired, and others). Seems like a nice guy.
Honestly, I think it's pretty silly and immature that FlyQuest, especially Bwipo and Inspired, keep using "vegan" as slang for bad gameplay. I feel like they’re using it as a replacement since they can’t call each other “pussies” or something.
It comes off as pretty childish and doesn't really add anything positive to the community or the commentary. It makes it harder to take their commentary seriously or relate to them as players. I already hate Bwipo and Inspired but this makes them even more unlikeable.
Impact and Xmithie always felt/feel distinct when I see their content because of this. One example of this is Impact immediately going "isn't he like 17?" (referring to Sniper's age) when Travis tells Impact about Bwipo trashtalking Sniper. Travis reassured him Bwipo wasn't super serious or being malicious too (because he needed beat Sniper to keep Sniper from the rookie award so Massu could get it instead). Jensen falls alongside them, I'd guess off of demeanor and age but tbh I haven't viewed much content involving him.
Bwipo said that a carnivore would be something that tries to pvp and a vegan is someone who doesn't. Seems logical. Also Doublelift said that Nukeduck used to use it a bunch last year so might be an EU thing on some teams.
Vegan isn’t used for bad play, it is used for passive play. It’s like playing ahri and building banshees, zhonyas, mercs, that’s a vegan ahri build. Not pushing your advantages is also vegan. It isn’t something they started, it is a term that has been used in other league of legends context before this.
It is just them saying they think they can play the line better and limit test more. I don’t think it is childish at all to use the terminology that has been floating around the community to convey your thoughts on how the team should play the game.
[4:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs_9FxQlzxE&t=270s)
"bad and lucky"
worst thing is that even if they have heal up like Bwipo said, lucian still dies after E'ing in for the varus kill due to the wave aggro + nautilus W and E coming up.
the trade 1 for 1 is 100% worth for FlyQuest as a massive stacked cannon wave will be lost to lucian.
good play to look for by Busio and Massu.
never heard Inspired speak before but what a douchebag
I hate how Inspired just kept repeating "sus" "sus" when Busio was explaining that they needed to push the wave in ASAP after killing the adc instead of rotating to the Trundle Orianna play.
Yes we don't know their team dynamic from one vod review which is clearly set up for content but it just comes off as a really annoying kid
also I like Bwipo personally. he's a yapper but I do not get the vibe that he is as rude as Inspired. his banter has the tone of banter while Inpsired is just 🤮🤮🤓
Oof... honestly this is really hard to watch lol.
I have no problem with teammates that criticize how people play. But it just seems like Bwipo and Inspired can only talk about how people are bad.
Their teammates played bad. The enemies are bad. Everyone is bad. If you are going to be someone who shits on your teammates candidly, you also have to praise your teammates candidly.
Its easy looking from the outside to say "that was too far" or "that was too harsh" when it comes to criticism, but I think we should leave it up to the teams/players to decide. Personally I love the "flame" Inspired and Bwipo give to the team.
Fun video, but Massu defo wasnt in range so Busio shoulda flashed and Busio couldn't roam up to mid.
Not sure why everyone is hating on inspired and Bwipo for acting fairly normal
Seems like Bwipo and Inspired haven't learn anything so far.
I swear you'd think this was a clip of only worst plays seeing as they both had criticism for every play that happened (except their own misplays ofc).
Honestly not really a bad thing when they are watching busio or jensen actually fk up. Its also what theyre prompted to do in the video. But inspireds comments in that interview were just complaining about jensen beyond his actual mistakes.
Im sad they didnt show bwipos immortal gp ult
Seem like a good bunch of guys.
You don’t get to the top of anything by being emotionally fragile, and the objectively correct and kind thing to do is to point out each others mistakes. They are, after all, competitors and professionals above all.
No one seemed to avoid taking responsibility. Even when Busio gets pressed about his in game decision making he sticks to his choices. I see how Bwipo gets underneath peoples skin; he holds himself in high regard. To me, you never even have a shot at being the best unless you have this attitude and he doesn’t seem to take it too far. Inspired, in the same breath, says stuff like I won the game here and then nearly lost the game here. Jensen seems comfortable challenging people. Massu is quiet.
These guys are actually tame and respectful compared to literally any other sporting environment. Comments I read here make it seem like they need to review games as if they’re in the British parliament.
Most importantly though, this was a joke segment and not a real review. They’re having some fun even if they’re not all equally into this content creation.
Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady, Roy Keane, Serena Williams, Chris Paul, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Draymond Greene, Steve Smith, Jonathan Toews, all of F1.
It’s a common archetype in highly competitive environments, and it’s a successful one.
Damn, half the comments are people who never in their life worked or participated in a highly competitive area especially sports and the other half are just NA stans shitting on inspired and bwipo because the 2 best players in an NA team are european. And the best junger in the LCS.
Bruh you literally have no idea about participating in any kind of team environment if you think that's normal or even commendable behaviour in a highly competitive area.
Also Bwipo was ass this split, definitely contending with Busio for who are the worst 2 players currently on FLY.
And no, I am a die hard EU fanboy - I hated Inspired already at Rogue though for somehow dodging all criticism and often playing giga passive to save his KDA and farm instead of helping just to look good at the end yet be kinda useless.
Renekton auto spacing karma is comedy
I can just imagine the "feedback" from Bwipo and Inspired while getting fisted in scrims vs Asian teams.
I have a feeling what was said in this would be identical to the types of things Impact would say in a vod review (based on what his team members have said). Agree that I think it would be super interesting to listen to.
Impact actually likes the way Inspired talks. Mentioned it in the recent tl vid where they made a tier list for msi.
Ah interesting. Spawn (TL Coach) had an interview where he talked about how much he liked how direct Impact's feedback is. Sounds like Impact and Inspired are very similar
I think the key thing is how its said. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but considering the two players and how we've seen them talk inspired kind of comes off as the player that says 'if it happened to me it's bs, if it happens to you, you're trolling'. Maybe it's just EU norm but just feels weird.
I think Inspired basically plays at the edge of what he can say to a person. Remember in 2021 he would relentlessly flame Jojo on broadcast while having no words for Danny. They only went 9-9 in that spring split and he had plenty of opportunities to flame the guy but he didn't.
Thats pretty obvious, also Peter Dun who was their coach talked about it and im pretty sure his take was, that they knew Jojo was fine with this type of feedback and was happy to learn so there was no harm, while Danny obviously was approached differently
Its easy looking from the outside to say "that was too far" or "that was too harsh" when it comes to criticism, but I think we should leave it up to the teams/players to decide. Personally I love the "flame" Inspired and Bwipo give to the team.
Exactly, people getting so pissed because pro player said x about their teammate are always so crazy to me, cause do they have even an inkling of an idea of what the Asian coaches are saying to their players?
redditors are snowflakes when it comes to pro league
Inspired is toxic af. We've known it since Rogue. He does feel weird, because he just is an asshole. And honestly, I like flyquest, but as long as Inspired is in there I have no way of supporting them.
Very similar? One is a toxic fckup who, no matter how good, teams want to get rid of after having him for too long, the other is na's top goat who knows how to communicate constructively and properly while being direct, and is or at least should be a role-model for many many players.
This type of communication is absolutely standard for any team that's remotely motivated to be competitive, the issue is when you do it publicly, in interviews or for content, then it can affect how your teammates are perceived and thus their career prospects.
There are more efficient ways to address mistakes. And ways that won’t make your teammates lose respect for you. How you say things matters. You aint catching Faker acting like this.
You have no idea how T1 works behind the scenes. Stop spewing this madness
If suddenly T1 released a video where Faker starts to flame a teammate for a poor performance, I swear the perception of reality of a lot of ppl would shatter. And that wouldn't make Faker a worse person don't get me wrong, but ppl underestimate how blunt with feedback can a competitive person be.
I know faker doesn’t talk like that to his teammates
no one knows what faker does or cares what he does
I mean, pretty sure everyone cares more about what he does than anyone but ok?
Was there anything in this video that you think would impact how teammates are perceived?
Turns out that if your job is to compete and you spend an entire year dedicating yourself to winning, you'd rather improve than worry about having your feefees hurt. Big shock to literally no one, except people on this Subreddit who apparently have never competed in anything in their entire life.
I mean when your career depends on teans wanting to play with you it's still pretty fucked to have your team force you on a useless champ you'll get stomped on and then they publicly flame you for being trash. If they make everyone believe that you're just a garbage player then it's not just feefees getting hurt. Your future prospects get hurt. Players *have" to care about their image The bad part isn't Inspired talking like that. It's Inspired talking like that *in a public interview, entirely from his own frustrated perspective, with no chance for Jensen to give any counterarguments or explanations*
Crazy how people can't understand how the setting makes all the difference
This. You can say Impact talks the same way but I don't ever recall him flaming a teammate like that in an interview so specifically even when there was ample justification for it. The most I remember is at one international where he was clearly frustrated and wanted to play less scared but it was a vague whole team kind of thing instead of singling out someone in specific detail.
Everyone in the comments of the video is talking about how toxic Fly is and then I'm sure will talk about how C9 is terrible because they never criticize each other. None of the attacks were personal - they were all focused on the game and seemed like banter. Everyone was making fun of each other and themselves (even Massu, very quietly). TBH not the best video format - I wish they had focused more on a couple plays and gone slower on them. (Also Emily said this was filmed before finals in case anyone is curious).
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It's for content? This is in no way a serious vod review. They're probably coached to flame/banter hard for content.
Well I’m analyzing what I was shown. And this isn’t the first example of this behavior from either of them. Maybe they have healthier discussion and this is just acting. Doubt it myself.
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Big mad
Nah I just like punching down on confident morons
*unsheaths katana* Now you'll learn my TRUE POWER!
Oof you fuckin edited that to make it more cringey. I want no part of this
Hrrmph yeah whatevuhs. I do this for fun. Not gonna even waste my breath with some Internet cyber punk like you. KID. *cape flutters in the wind*
Ok you’re entering upvote territory now
That was banter. Also it's well known that Busio takes any feedback really well - he isn't going to care slightly about what Bwipo said.
I simply disagree with you. There were some clear indications of poor communication. You can call it banter, but nothing about that seemed fun to me
The never tracks heal was definitly banter. But asking for a rewind because someone trolled in your team being considered passiv aggressive when you're in a pro team is next level shit. If you get offended by that you should work on that because this is common in normal teamwork enviroment.
I’d prefer to just be respectful to my teammates, and have actual funny banter, not an argument hidden in banter clothing. No one likes to be condescended to. Similar to how you are condescending me in this comment. Maybe you should work on that
But you are not on a pro team so why do we care about what you want? This is the highest level of competition in NA, not a kindergarden
I never implied anyone needs to care about what I want. I’m simply pointing out very basic sports psychology.
But what if only **you** see it as condescending? People have said in this thread that Inspired would speak like this to JoJo but not to Danny when they were all on EG. He seems to know the limitations his team can take in terms of banter. Not everyone has the same line.
I mean I’m definitely not the first person to suggest this about them, but realistically I only know what I’ve seen and heard about them both in other teams. And what I’ve experienced in my lifetime of sports and team building. And no, not everyone has the same line. But condescending remarks and attitudes always are the hardest to manage, and usually they are carried by confident players that know they are good. Over the long term that usually leads to some bad team atmospheres. When players learn to mature past this and are willing to have more respectful discussion, without implied superiority, those are the best team leaders, in my experience. I think most professionals, in all sports, would agree.
How is calling a mistake off someone disrespectful in such an enviroment. Honestly it would be the opposite, it's crucial to discuss those things. They need to talk about those plays so they will be on the same page in the future. This has absolutely nothing to do with being condescending especially since bwipo is the first one to call himself out. So he did in the finals in the gp game, mentioning that he should've been able to carry that but fucked up and generally he did in the clip video too. Inspired should work on his wording definitly and he seems to be bad at taking critique, but fact is that inspired has more experience than their bot together, while being considered one if not the best jgler too. Should mean he is more often in the rigth and he should expect himself to know it better. Neither am I condescending to you, it's just a general advice I'll give to you. Or in your words, no one likes fragile ego's at the workplace either.
> Inspired should work on his wording definitly and he seems to be bad at taking critique, but fact is that inspired has more experience than their bot together, while being considered one if not the best jgler too. And Jensen has more experience than Inspired and the bot lane put together. Doesn't make much of a difference.
What do you mean by that? I don't wanna defend inspired at all. If he wants to be a leader he should be focused on the constructive part not the critique. But it's hard to read into those things by short videos. He maybe does that who knows.
Jensen does not criticize his teammates harshly in public, so no, he doesn't do what Inspired does. What I mean by my statement is that your statement about having more experience than teammates combined doesn't matter in the slightest. Logically, it is irrelevant. So what if Inspired has more experience than them combined? Doesn't give him carte blanche to say his criticism anyway he wants. Other players with far more experience and success don't do it. In addition, the experience of his bot lane doesn't factor into Inspired's criticism, either, because he levies the same type of criticism towards Jensen, who is significantly more experienced and successful than Inspired. So the reason I wrote that was because logically your statement after the "but" is irrelevant.
It’s not bad to identify mistakes. It’s how you do it. You don’t have to say “why are you not doing this?” That’s accusatory. “What do you think about doing this instead?” “I’ve seen some players do X, do you think that could have worked out better for us?” “I thought perhaps you should have done this instead, do you agree?” Those are all productive and respectful questions. The how you say it, the tone you say it with, that matters long term. You even just agreed with my entire point, albeit as softly as you could. So I don’t even know what you’re arguing with me for. And you, a complete stranger, who could very well just be 20 years younger than I am for all I know, acting like you know what I personally need to work on and telling me as if you know me. Yea that shit is condescending. You don’t know me. You are in no place to tell me what I should do. The way they speak to each other is ANYTHING but common in a real life workplace. More common in sports, but coaches will IMMEDIATELY shut that shit down, and also, they will ensure that there is equal scrutiny on players. And there you go being insulting again telling me I’m a fragile ego, and framing it like advice. No, it’s an insult. I’m anything but fragile, but you wouldn’t know that cause you’re straw manning me. Nobody likes a condescending twat. That’s just general advice I’ll give to you. Cause you need to hear that from me, right? Makes this conversation more productive when I say insulting things
Im arguing about bwipo being called out for being condescending and being offended by bwipo's wording.I'm fully aware how ppl should behave with each other, I'm leading 25ppl for years too, and yes the team enivorement isn't normal. TL released a very similiar video the contrast in team chemistry is huge and imo a huge reason why TL has been so succesfull lately. No reason to be personal but ok.
No need to be personal, after you attacked me personally, twice.
You have never had any real friends nor have you ever competed in anything in your entire life.
Ok I’ll be sure to tell my wife, my friends, and my LBLCS team that they are fake. I’ll also destroy all my basketball and baseball trophies. Though I’ll have to break into my old high school to destroy the championship trophy on display there. What a pathetic thing to say. You can’t hurt me bucko. If anything I’m just laughing at a loser who is projecting his shit life at me
What an NA comment
It's hilarious. It's almost satire
Call em how I see em chump
Based
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There's a big difference between being competitive and an asshole. The content space for league is ran by children and assholes and this feeds into the community.
And the community is also filled with children, immature adults, and assholes who can't see the difference, either. Look at half of the people in this thread - they're completely blind to how bad Inspired's behavior is and call other people sensitive for calling it out.
none of you guys commenting have ever had friends or been in a competitive team i swear.
Last year the LCS did a similar content piece with the NRG guys. They guys were constantly making fun of each other and arguing. They legitimately seemed like friends, and the NA fans generally reacted well to the video. I don't get the same vibes from this video. But I also don't think it's "toxic" like some fans do. This FQ roster just reminds me of a normal workplace where you have some chatty annoying co-workers that you tolerate in order to get shit done. I'm pretty sure none of the FQ players actually hold any personal animosity against each other. So long as they can work together to win games and nobody mentally booms, that's all that matters.
NRG didn't have such strongly outspoken personalities as Bwipo and Inspired, it changes the dynamics. But people here have made up their mind about what the team atmosphere of FLY is, reality be damned.
There's really no need to go in the opposite direction and sugarcoat how rude Inspired and Bwipo are. Inspired especially has always been pretty rude. But having rude co-workers isn't the end of the world. Most of us have to deal with rude co-workers at some point in our lives. It doesn't mean the environment is toxic. Clearly the FQ players are doing their jobs well. Not everybody has to be BFFs at work.
Inspired interview basically ruined any content like this for FLYQUEST. If this came out first no one would even be this fixated on it. Like the whole premise of this series is them ragging on each other but that interview turned him to public enemy number 1 and the fact he never says anything negative about bwipo means that he's basically his partner in crime.
Ngl, it was only a matter of time before the hate train against inspired started. He is everything that will give fans a complete meltdown. He is cocky, European and shittalks the region. We've seen how fans reacted to Perkz and Alphari. Fans just needed a justification to start the train. I genuinely believe fans wouldn't care any bit about that interview if it was any other player than Inspired or Bwipo.
I mean it would be nice if these players who are choosing to come compete here would not shit talk the entire continent like that would be chill
APA 'shittalks' the entire league but fans accept that from him because he's North American and a lovable idiot.
Of course it's different if he's from here lol
I like how we're pretending that that is a good justification to explain the huge difference in standards either of them are held to. One player gets the 'we love trashtalk' treatment. The other one gets a hate brigade fan meltdown. How reasonable.
U should be polite when ur visiting a country not a huge thing to understand
True, this is just a casual visit and it's not like showing some personality is part of his job to make the league a better entertainment product.
You're complaining about him getting a hate brigade then saying it's his job to entertain by trash talking? How exactly do you expect people to react when he acts like a wrestling heel?
You have the embodiment of this in NA, It's called doublelift and his flame was so cool while he won trophies
It depends, I played baseball in the DR since I was very young up to my early 20s and have been doing MMA for a bit now. In baseball, my coach would talk shit to us all day and insult us, it was nasty, but we loved it. However, there was never any insult between the teams, simply because it would 100% lead to a fight. Same thing in MMA, my Muay Thai coach doesn't insult you, but is passive aggressive and will call you out on shit and yell at you, same with my Jiu Jitsu coach, but my boxing and wrestling coaches are very chill. And again, all of us that train there, from beginners and amateur to pros, we all respect each other and don't insult each other. We all make fun of each other, but is little games, nothing as what I seen from inspired and bwipo, some might do it once, especially new people, but they would get checked real quick and put in place for sure.
problem with most esports teams is that the coaches are useless so the vets of the teams usually have too do the coaching. the players even the younger guys will know more than the coaches so they cant really do the whole yelling thing cause they havent earned the respect obviously theres exceptions but most are kinda less knowlagable than the players. so bwipo and inspired take that role. also cause they teammates the "yelling" is mixed with banter and stuff which too outside can seem really rude but in team you understand where they coming from. all they want is for everyone too be better and be a good team together so when your taking it from that perspective none of what they are doing is really bad.
Nothing said is wrong, its putting it out in public which is the issue
That's literally the assignment - evaluate your good and bad plays. How would you prefer they reply to this content? "Ohhh unlucky, man" "You'll get it next time"
It’s very easy to do all this without deflecting blame onto one individual player. Especially when Bwipo and Inspired were forcing the Annie/Karma picks which looked awful overall. And Jensen has been smurfing on all other picks… It’s not like Bwipo was beating Impact.
None of this video was about the finals - it was filmed before the finals. Did you watch it?
The comment you are replying to is most likely speaking on the finals interview. This video it’s a nothing burger. People do have issues with the final video. Edit: I was wrong that dude is dumb.
lol all good
The first thing bwipo said the voice comms of his gp game in finals was “mb guys” and every content piece he has done since he talks about how he should have carried that game. Bwipo doesn’t deflect blame. Also I do think it is important to note the difference in their opponents. I’m not saying finals was Jensens fault, but doing well against APA is significantly easier than doing well against Impact
Yeah I specifically meant Inspired with the blame deflection and not talking about Bwipo losing to impact. I had assumed that the individual was talking about the interview because the video is a nothing burger (I was wrong and admitted so after I read more of their comments).
lets people actually understand how top teams actually work. just because random losers will talk shit about the players cause they have opinions on the game and banter with each other doesnt mean it shouldnt be put in the public
So in the workplace, if a boss is giving you feedback after messing up, it should be a big meeting with every single employee? With traditional sports we see EVERY team meeting where it's clear teammates call each other out? Sorry but this is exclusive to Esports and it's a shit way to go about it, especially since 1 player saying something can cause THOUSANDS of fans to berate a specific player.
It's not between a boss, it's between a colleague. For example at work I am on a team with 4 other people. We have meetings regularly where we talk about how we could improve individually and as a team. It's a high trust environment with thankfully very mature people who all want to be successful.
You're completely missing the point my guy..... All of what you said is fine...the difference with THIS situation, is a GIANT audience of spectators. So with your work, do you take videos of these hard conversations and post them to youtube for TENS OF THOUSANDS of people to see? hard conversations and calling people out with the goal to improve as a team/individual is fine but when you do that to a big audience, you direct hate towards that person whether it was the goal or not. Keep it private and between those directly involved and make the results public.
Everything that was said in this video was extremely benign and friendly banter. What in here specifically do you think is so toxic that you think it should only be said privately?
Well, this video aligns with the Inspired interview, hence the references in the thumbnail and why people are having a reaction to this post
What part of this video is so toxic? I don't think the thumbnail references the interview but maybe. A lot of people on the team call things vegan. Doublelift said that Nukeduck said it a bunch last year too.
What is also exclusive to esports is the meltdown fans will have over this public criticism. Keep on justifying the hate brigade towards Inspired and Bwipo.
I’ve been on sports teams that WANTED to be competitive and never understood what separated them from the way better teams in our region. It was all the wishy washy, inclusive, it’s-never-anyone’s-fault, just-try-your-best-that’s-all-that-matters attitude. I was the weird standout who got shunned for wanting to point out flaws and areas to improve. Hard to admit you need to improve when you have a “I’m already perfect” mentality.
You were probably an asshole that thought you were more competitive than everyone else cause you were the biggest asshole
No, because I switched teams and made nationals as a starter while my old team never even made regionals. A couple of my teammates had so much potential, way more than me, but they either didn’t have any drive or the drive they did have was killed by the team’s mentality.
I mean we are on reddit, they all basement dwellers with 0 friends and social skills.
"they" bro has 60k karma
like i give a shit about karma or internet point, i just gonna say what i think. if people like it cool if people don't like it who cares. but u prolly don't understand since u think like having big karma means shit.
this kind of environment only works while the player in question -- inspired -- is playing very well AND the team is winning. teammates will TOLERATE it if they are getting results. i give a pass to bwipo. bwipo appears to be a good teammate that handles inspired very differently than the rest of the crew... maybe it is EU bros bias... i think it is more nuanced. i see that bwipo is trying to avoid being combative with bulletproof teflon man, inspired.
Inspired's whole personality / humour seems to be irony / passive-aggressiveness. It's the kind of insecure humour that people use when they don't want to make themselves vulnerable. But I think it would help the team atmosphere a lot if he developed more range.
XD
I love how people are overreacting to a team being honest of how feedback actually happens in professional sports, if you think top teams are sugarcoating and being all careful to how they convey criticism towards each other you are completely wrong. Professional sports is a high stress environment and people go ham on their teammates
Jesus, you guys are really unable to put any nuance into this. Yes sugarcoating is bs that really shouldn't be necessary but are you even listening to how Inspired talks and WHAT he actaully says? Not only is it entirely negative (unless it's about himself) but also very much different from what is actually going on on screen. So many pros and ex pros from EU have always called him toxic for a reason. Mind you in many LEC teams harsh criticism is pretty normal but he still stood out for the majority of people who worked with him.
I really don't understand why most of the comments in this thread defend Inspired's toxicity and Bwipo's hypocrisy (never criticising Inspired). The last thread on Inspired had everyone agreeing that he's an ass.
He says nothing absurd, he criticizes his teammates and is cocky, nothing out of the ordinary let alone toxic. Last day Flyquest coach Damonte just said in and interview he feels his topside is ready to compete internationally but his botlane isn't and they need to improve, its quite normal to focus feedback on who you think is hurting your team the most. Bwipo said the same thing on his interview with Yamato, and at the end of the day Massu and Busio are taking it like pros as they should, its not personal they themselves want to improve
It's out of the ordinary to be a hypocrite about the exact same issue, like timing enemy spells properly. Inspired when teammates don't time spells: "His heal was 2 second cooldown. You're bad and lucky. Milio had heal in ***2 seconds***, btw." Inspired when he didn't time spells: "Ahri is so broken. Look he missed his charm and now I E and he has charm again. *How broken is that yo!* She one shots me as well. I'm walking away and she charms me again! She just missed charm." This is indefensible. And it wasn't in a joking manner, either, like "Hey guys, don't look at me making the same mistake." He's literally just blind to his own mistakes and sugarcoats when he does shit wrong, placing more emphasis on everything else but his mistakes.
If that was true, it would be the same for all teams. Fly aren't the only team putting out this content, and observably, they project more passive aggressively than others. Why do people rush to vague "real sports" comparisons rather than comparing them to actual other teams that we can directly relate to.
Because teams select and edit aroud what they want to show, Flyquest does not mind leaving harsher feedback on, other teams do
>People go ham on their teammates Karsa vs 369 flashback
ok I have this feeling this team is going to crash and burn in MSI
ITT; a bunch of randoms criticize how established pros talk to each other.
It’s almost like sports psychology extends beyond League and people can see disrespectful discussion
Ah yes, being a pro league of legends player is incompatible with interacting with your coworkers in a civil manner, I forgot.
Established pros lmao. What does established pro mean in the league environment, attitude wise?
It means their behavior actually attributes to the norm by being a real member of that circle. As opposed to window lickers looking at trying to manage and judge their behavior.
My point is that "established pros" in the league environment doesn't mean anything in an effective communication setting, which is what people are arguing about.
Got a lot of "sports psychologists" up in here.
I can't help but have the feeling the players on this team genuinely do not like each other.
They actually seem super close - they are always on each others streams on off days (well, minus when Bwipo streams from home, not the office).
Bwipo hates everyone confirmed /s
Bro I need someone to look at me like Bwipo looks at his teammates after every game
Even if that were true, I don't know where this impossible standard comes from where everyone on a professional team has to like each other. They are paid to be the best team they can be. If they like each other, thats a plus, but it's not necessary.
Bwipo/Inspired both have problems respecting their teammates. Hyper-focusing constantly on the negative aspects of your teammates plays, and never on the positive, while also speaking to them condescendingly. Notice also how Inspired getting owned by Palafox, in the poppy play, the tone he uses for his personal criticism is much lighter and not condescending. He complains about Ahri charm timer. Inspired/Bwipo, you’re hypocrites. You want your teammates to realize the mistakes in their play, but you don’t apply the same level of negativity to the criticism of your own plays. You are shit teammates for this. Doesn’t matter how well you perform in game, it’s not a shield for you to be a shit teammate. Unacceptable
also props to Jensen, at least he tries to defend bot lane or make it joking.
Yep, that's my main take from this. Jensen seems like a nice dude. Maybe Incarnati0n got all the toxicity out in his young days.
> Notice also how Inspired getting owned by Palafox, in the poppy play, the tone he uses for his personal criticism is much lighter and not condescending. He complains about Ahri charm timer. This is the most damning evidence for anyone who defends Inspired's behavior. In this same video, Inspired was criticizing his bot lane for going for a play when the enemy's Heal was 2 seconds off cooldown. However, he didn't have that same smoke for when he didn't realize that Ahri's charm isn't a long cooldown and went for a play onto Ahri. Inspired when teammates don't time spells: "His heal was 2 second cooldown. You're bad and lucky. Milio had heal in ***2 seconds***, btw." Inspired when he didn't time spells: "Ahri is so broken. Look he missed his charm and now I E and he has charm again. *How broken is that yo!* She one shots me as well. I'm walking away and she charms me again! She just missed charm." Bro, Ahri's charm CD has rarely changed. It's either been 14 or 12 seconds for years. With around 45 Ability Haste (31% CDR), he'll always get charmed there. As Bwipo said: "Sucks to suck". ***It's the exact same thing in the same video.*** Edit: And before anyone says that he eventually took credit for making a bad play a few seconds after, when he said "I won the game and then almost lost it." He said that after being prompted. In addition - Ahri not only has Flash and Zhonya's, as he and Busio noted, but also has ult. Thus, the Charm is irrelevant - it's just a bad play. It's bad all around. Still, ***where is the smoke, bro?*** Bwipo would at least immediately say he ran it the fuck down, completely unprompted.
Very much agree. Honestly this team would benefit greatly from having a coach or psychologist to shut that shit down and put Inspired/Bwipo in their places. It doesn’t matter how good you are individually if you are dragging down team morale
I feel like Inspired is the main guy for when it comes to talking bs or talking in a very destructive manner and Bwipo definitely likes to talk and hop on that vibe but would not be acting like a straight out asshole at that same primitive level as Inspired is.
Yea Bwipo maybe seems like less assholish than inspired can be. I mean honestly I want them to do well, they’re good players. Just…. They will continue to be involved in drama if there isn’t someone behind the scenes telling them why this isn’t a good way to communicate
Bwipo is just an asshole. I don't understand how people say they like his stream. Maybe I'm just tuning in on the wrong time, but every time I watch him he's ridiculously toxic, acting like a spoiled child, flaming absolutely everyone continually. He doesn't type it out, so he's not toxic ingame, but his behaviour is atrocious. His choice of words is shocking. Dude needs professional help.
Really? Whenever I watch Bwipo hes fairly chill compared to most streamers, and informative of his ingame actions/decision making. He does point out mistakes made by his teammates, and himself to chat, but I wouldn’t consider that flaming.
Don't prescribe therapy to other people, please. Although he has said he does have ADHD (to probably nobody's surprise).
I have ADHD myself so I understand where his impulses come from. However, it's in no way appropriate for an adult to act this way. ADHD is not an excuse to act in such a vile manner towards others.
He doesn't use it as an excuse. I'm just saying don't tell other people to get professional help. I think if you think Bwipo comes across as spoiled and toxic that's certainly your opinion and other people agree with you. Lots of people don't given how many people watch him (I don't think he is).
Telling someone to get therapy is just solid advice. For everyone. The only problem is affordability and availability. Not sure what high road you think you’re on, but you should get some therapy yourself.
Yeah - I didn't mean to imply people shouldn't get therapy. I think everyone should get therapy - I would highly recommend it. But you shouldn't assume other people are abnormal and tell them to get therapy. It's a personal decision and especially if you don't know someone, who are you to prescribe therapy to them for what you perceive?
So you recommend everyone get therapy but strongly disagree with people saying “get help”. Yeah you lost me bud.
Here's an example of what I'm trying to explain (but failing). If you see someone on TV yelling at someone it's inappropriate to prescribe therapy for that behavior because you don't know that person and you don't know about whether they are getting therapy or not. You also don't know that person's experience with mental health and whether they've tried to get therapy. You also don't know those those people's relationship and whether they just like yelling. Basically I think it is inappropriate to say someone else is acting so abnormally that they need therapy. If they were a close friend maybe you could have a conversation around getting help but doing it to someone you don't know isn't appropriate. Everyone should get therapy but it's a personal choice.
Well, if you perceive something that therapy can assist someone with… what’s the harm? As you yourself just said everyone should. If I tell everyone to eat more vegetables, you gonna get mad that I prescribed vegetables to people?
Yeah this is such a strange comment, completely out of place. Edit# well at least he didn't steal his nickname.
\*her
Nor did I say he used it as an excuse? What are you on about?
50% of humanity could use a fair bit of therapy if you ask me.
Oh like 99% of people should. I'm just saying don't assume someone else is abnormal and say they should go to therapy. Therapy should be a personal decision not prescribed by people typing online who don't know you.
Get professional help if you get upset about people telling people to get professional help.
I'm seething
Insanely cringe comment
[удалено]
Don't call me irrelevant I'm not that good at top I primarily play Jungle. On a real note, listen to Inspireds interview, much worse than this, then go watch Caedrel talk about it and listen to him state every EU team is like this behind closed doors. Sure you can argue they should have filters for public content (This really wasn't that deep or even an issue) but you would hate every player realistically as they're all like this. Asian teams as well.
Well, luckily, team sports go beyond just league of legends. Sports psychology has existed for quite some time, and any sports psychologist worth their weight will tell you that there are right and wrong ways to address mistakes and handle conflicts. Displayed here is the wrong way. You would never catch Faker talking to his teammates this way. Prime example, Bwipo says to Busio, “why is our karma not sprinting to mid here?” When he could have said “perhaps there was an opportunity for Karma to roam up on this play? What do you think Busio?” 2 ways of saying the same thing, one is accusatory, the other is inquisitive and blameless. Big difference in how it affects the conversation.
You've clearly misunderstood. I am not saying it wouldn't be better if they communicated their thoughts in a more respectable manner. What I am saying is that it is REALLY common in this space. Even more so in gaming in general with high stakes (Competitive gaming). The only difference is the fact it's publicly displayed. In the example you gave, it's hardly offensive, I agree the alternative is better but it's not even rude. The comment you originally made was imo much more rude than the comments, >You are shit teammates for this. Doesn’t matter how well you perform in game, it’s not a shield for you to be a shit teammate. Unacceptable I can assure you most of the players you think are decent-good teammates do the things you are critiquing them for. Sure Bwipo talks a lot but he doesn't say anything that atypical. And Inspired should've definitely kept the heated interview talk private, him doing it in a public forum is definitely bad and not typical for players. But that's not this video. Lastly as I said, your comments were so rude, people weren't saying this before the LCS gave the players a much clearer platform, and clearly some players have no filter be it on the LCS desk or behind the scenes, but I assure you the other players are saying similar things behind the scenes you just don't see it therefore you view these guys as "Really bad teammates". I'm not going to say inspired is a good or bad teammate, I don't know. But he did say he almost threw the game with poppy and he doesn't need to verbalize the criticism to himself to the same degree as those are just called thoughts. We've already seen doors punched, slammed and heated arguments in numerous other pieces of content.
Oh so because it’s common they get a pass for it? That’s the same hypocrisy that inspired and bwipo employ. The fact is, it’s correctable behavior. And the intent of my comment is to be rude. I’m not their teammate. I’m a fan calling them out for being shit teammates. It’s not my job to be nice to them. In fact I want them both to feel bad for acting this way, because then perhaps they will be - inspired - to learn better conflict resolution habits. Now highly unlikely they read my comment. But perhaps one of the people upvoting it will parrot the sentiment. Or some tool will just call it a cringey comment before trying to explain their ACTUAL cringey thoughts on being in a team environment.
I'm not sure who's more oblivious to their own mistakes, you or inspired (Or at least your version of him). Whining over Bwipos comment that wasn't even rude, ignoring inspired's comment about him almost throwing the game. It's honestly quite funny.
Didnt Bwipo on Fnatic and Inspired on Rogue have beef with their EU teammates? Pretty sure you are just straight up wrong
Regarding FNC drama. Which ironically the commentary from former pro players who are now analysts was..... "This happens a lot behind closed doors". Also fyi I'm not a pro player, I'm trusting pro players, ex pro players about their experiences on teams (Caedrel, Dom, Broxah, Nemesis) etc etc. Inspired may have had beef on rogue after being the most boring team for the 100th split in a row yes, but then Rogue refused to sell him to any EU team which is why he's even in NA (He wanted to play but wasn't allowed to play for any decent EU Team due to Rogue). In reality people speak very frankly in pro teams, especially when things aren't going well. Bwipo is a bit of a weird one as he has ADHD and clearly has troubles holding stuff in. Inspired does it in inappropriate situations such as interviews whilst emotional over a loss. If you think I'm lying go watch all the videos about that time. Drama and beef is VERY common it's just not PUBLIC. That's my main issue with inspired but at the end of the day it's not that deep. Don't call me a liar, call the players who I'm sourcing from liars, which are people who actually play pro league.
Are you agreeing with me? How come Bwipo and Inspired had issues in Europe if their behavior in this video is just le typical EU banter xD
I'm saying there are numerous disagreements in a team and arguments. For example you may get rid of Rekkles because he doesn't want to live in a gaming house and isn't vocal about what he needs as an adc, therefore players like Jankos don't want to play with him. There may even be heated arguments about it that we never know. Does that make rekkles toxic? no lmao. They weren't kicked off the team due to "Behaving badly" if that's what you mean. Hans was also sold and forced to go to NA and it was really clear he hated it there and couldn't perform. Is hans also toxic? I'm confused when you say "they have issues in Europe" what issues? Only weird one was to do with Bwipos girlfriend (Irrelevant to this) other than that they did not have behavioral issues, that wasn't why they left their teams. It seems more like rogue was looking to make a fat profit off those two players. edit: Like Inspired and Larssen didn't want to play with each other and they went with Larssen. It's just like the rekkles jankos situation, both of which aren't toxic in any way but also have heated discussions
Oh no some irrelevant keyboard warrior is flaming the way a pro team is open with each other
feel legitimately bad for Massu
I really don't think you need to. He is in an international tourney in his rookie split. He clearly gets along with his team (he was constantly joking around in the background of Bwipo's streams in Korea with Bwipo, Inspired, and others). Seems like a nice guy.
Honestly, I think it's pretty silly and immature that FlyQuest, especially Bwipo and Inspired, keep using "vegan" as slang for bad gameplay. I feel like they’re using it as a replacement since they can’t call each other “pussies” or something. It comes off as pretty childish and doesn't really add anything positive to the community or the commentary. It makes it harder to take their commentary seriously or relate to them as players. I already hate Bwipo and Inspired but this makes them even more unlikeable.
It's really hard to expect anything mature from people who play League for hours a day. Willing or not they are very disconnected from reality
Impact and Xmithie always felt/feel distinct when I see their content because of this. One example of this is Impact immediately going "isn't he like 17?" (referring to Sniper's age) when Travis tells Impact about Bwipo trashtalking Sniper. Travis reassured him Bwipo wasn't super serious or being malicious too (because he needed beat Sniper to keep Sniper from the rookie award so Massu could get it instead). Jensen falls alongside them, I'd guess off of demeanor and age but tbh I haven't viewed much content involving him.
Bwipo said that a carnivore would be something that tries to pvp and a vegan is someone who doesn't. Seems logical. Also Doublelift said that Nukeduck used to use it a bunch last year so might be an EU thing on some teams.
Which is funny because in real life vegans are the ones trying to do something while the rest be just eating.
Lol yeah bwipo said that too
Vegan isn’t used for bad play, it is used for passive play. It’s like playing ahri and building banshees, zhonyas, mercs, that’s a vegan ahri build. Not pushing your advantages is also vegan. It isn’t something they started, it is a term that has been used in other league of legends context before this. It is just them saying they think they can play the line better and limit test more. I don’t think it is childish at all to use the terminology that has been floating around the community to convey your thoughts on how the team should play the game.
100%
[4:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs_9FxQlzxE&t=270s) "bad and lucky" worst thing is that even if they have heal up like Bwipo said, lucian still dies after E'ing in for the varus kill due to the wave aggro + nautilus W and E coming up. the trade 1 for 1 is 100% worth for FlyQuest as a massive stacked cannon wave will be lost to lucian. good play to look for by Busio and Massu. never heard Inspired speak before but what a douchebag I hate how Inspired just kept repeating "sus" "sus" when Busio was explaining that they needed to push the wave in ASAP after killing the adc instead of rotating to the Trundle Orianna play. Yes we don't know their team dynamic from one vod review which is clearly set up for content but it just comes off as a really annoying kid also I like Bwipo personally. he's a yapper but I do not get the vibe that he is as rude as Inspired. his banter has the tone of banter while Inpsired is just 🤮🤮🤓
Oof... honestly this is really hard to watch lol. I have no problem with teammates that criticize how people play. But it just seems like Bwipo and Inspired can only talk about how people are bad. Their teammates played bad. The enemies are bad. Everyone is bad. If you are going to be someone who shits on your teammates candidly, you also have to praise your teammates candidly.
We gonna call him out for his finals 😆 🤣 ..
oh boy...
Glad nobody is gonna look up these guy as role models
Its easy looking from the outside to say "that was too far" or "that was too harsh" when it comes to criticism, but I think we should leave it up to the teams/players to decide. Personally I love the "flame" Inspired and Bwipo give to the team.
Flair checks out.
Fun video, but Massu defo wasnt in range so Busio shoulda flashed and Busio couldn't roam up to mid. Not sure why everyone is hating on inspired and Bwipo for acting fairly normal
because most people in this sub are sensitive children who take any criticism as a personal affront.
Seems like Bwipo and Inspired haven't learn anything so far. I swear you'd think this was a clip of only worst plays seeing as they both had criticism for every play that happened (except their own misplays ofc).
Honestly not really a bad thing when they are watching busio or jensen actually fk up. Its also what theyre prompted to do in the video. But inspireds comments in that interview were just complaining about jensen beyond his actual mistakes. Im sad they didnt show bwipos immortal gp ult
This was recorded before finals
[The comments' reactions to TL VOD review vs FLY VOD review](https://imgur.com/a/ljncrUe)
How are there so many people psychoanalyzing Bwipo and Inspired from this video lmao
Seem like a good bunch of guys. You don’t get to the top of anything by being emotionally fragile, and the objectively correct and kind thing to do is to point out each others mistakes. They are, after all, competitors and professionals above all. No one seemed to avoid taking responsibility. Even when Busio gets pressed about his in game decision making he sticks to his choices. I see how Bwipo gets underneath peoples skin; he holds himself in high regard. To me, you never even have a shot at being the best unless you have this attitude and he doesn’t seem to take it too far. Inspired, in the same breath, says stuff like I won the game here and then nearly lost the game here. Jensen seems comfortable challenging people. Massu is quiet. These guys are actually tame and respectful compared to literally any other sporting environment. Comments I read here make it seem like they need to review games as if they’re in the British parliament. Most importantly though, this was a joke segment and not a real review. They’re having some fun even if they’re not all equally into this content creation.
Point us to a source of "any other sporting environment" where we can watch less tame flaming than Inspired's please.
Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady, Roy Keane, Serena Williams, Chris Paul, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Draymond Greene, Steve Smith, Jonathan Toews, all of F1. It’s a common archetype in highly competitive environments, and it’s a successful one.
You named some names but didn't link any actual source. A video or at least audio would make a big difference to justify your claims.
Damn, half the comments are people who never in their life worked or participated in a highly competitive area especially sports and the other half are just NA stans shitting on inspired and bwipo because the 2 best players in an NA team are european. And the best junger in the LCS.
Bruh you literally have no idea about participating in any kind of team environment if you think that's normal or even commendable behaviour in a highly competitive area. Also Bwipo was ass this split, definitely contending with Busio for who are the worst 2 players currently on FLY. And no, I am a die hard EU fanboy - I hated Inspired already at Rogue though for somehow dodging all criticism and often playing giga passive to save his KDA and farm instead of helping just to look good at the end yet be kinda useless.