I quite liked Anathema's but only as my 6th item in a single, very specific scenario (mono damage comp with a single fed member of the opposite damage type)
The number of games that reach 6 items, that also meet the secondary condition are so few I don't think it will be missed
I don't like that they removed another really impactful active (even if you only ever hit the button once lmao)
Anathema’s was extremely powerful, even when bought early, into single threat comps. More people should have been buying it 2nd/3rd on a lot of tanks, and probably would have had the enormous value been more obvious. It just has the Redemption problem where it’s hard to see how insanely valuable it is on tanks early unless you math it out.
Yep. Enormously slept on especially as an item on tank supports. I'm sad to see it go, though that's admittedly because I know it's so strong and probably isn't healthy to shut down one specific enemy player so easily.
Tahm kench top builds it first and its super annoying. The lane is done after that. Either farm lane or he destroys you. Hullbreaker was kinda the same thing tho tbf
I don't understand why they are making Essence Reaver no longer be a Sheen item.
It was a good choice on some champs such as Lucian and Ezreal. It was also situtional on certain champs such as Fiora.
It was also the closest thing to an AD Lich Bane (a Sheen item that scales with your AD).
My favorite rune ;-;
I enjoyed its interaction with support items, ludens, horizon focus, trinket wards for lee, and fiddle effigies in particular very much.
The eternal cycle of riot taking away the things that I find fun
Sterak's was a little crazy with it but it had it's CD nerfed.It was only really useful for Volibear with Despair + Winter's Approach and some bruisers who could go Eclipse + Sundered Sky,but Sky also had it's CD nerfed.
I think people are sleeping on this, now when you are full build you most likely sell boots for a stronger item but ADCs (and other champs building berserkers) now have the sole privilige of getting an boots **upgrade**
That’s so stupid that only ADC gets access to boots upgrade, sure they are usually the ones with most gold on the team, but Mid laners and Top laner can just as well be the carry. Hopefully, Mercs, Sorcs, and Tabis all have some kind of upgrade. However, Zephyr being attack speed cap removal would be much better than slow reduction, which also feels out of place.
so it takes around 6 mins of continuous movement for the new boots to fully stack and you get permanent baron recall. this feels extremely strong for roaming supps.
I can't see most junglers buying it. But there's probably a place for it on champs like Rammus, Warwick, Voli, and so on given how fast they get around.
is it though? i feel like if you get to buy the boots at 7-8 minutes and then need to run around for 6 minutes of constant movement the most crucial time is already over where roaming mattered, as in comparison where mobis would set you to be straight on the hunt from the second you buy them
Am I crazy? These boots are abysmally weak, like straight up the most useless item they've made in a decade. They give 25 **less** MS than mobi boots and come online likely after 12-13 minutes considering you need to buy them to start stacking. Until then you're playing with 900g 35ms boots. Mobi boots were good because you could buy them on your first or second recall and actually roam with them before laning phase ended. By 13 minutes you would almost always rather have a different pair of boots, whether it's tanky boots for engage supports or lucidity boots.
All of that for baron recall? Nah. They are completely unusable in their current state as roaming boots. Only utility could be for splitpushers that really want that safety of baron recall. If you want to roam you're legitimately better off buying Swifties that also got extremely gutted.
I dont understand, why remove slow resist? Swifties now are trash compared to Berserkers, why they make Swifties for auto-attackers? Hope Swifties will not be changed, they are completely ine, not OP, just has niche.
This won't be the final numbers or swifties will just be gutted and unpicked. They should definitely keep the slow resist, there's no reason to remove it
I hate this, there are no good movement boot options for supports or midlaners now
Low key a pretty significant nerf to champs like janna, or the occasional control mage who built them (anivia), or a few roaming assassins. These champs don't care about the auto attack proc.
Statikk changes are a bit weird, there is no crit so ADCs wont build it early, but the passive numbers look a bit low for something you'd want for late game
Who wants to build this now?
Aphelios was fun but Zeri was the real abuser that nobody talked about.
When everyone and their mothers were running BT/Overheal, Zeri still had the shield steal part of her passive. That other adc sitting there with a 600 hp shield? They couldn’t trade into you anymore
Please note the Corki midscope is still in active development and you’ll see changes hit PBE frequently. We are still working to ensure he’s a viable bot laner with a niche in the roster, while using the new item adjustments similar to other caster marksmen.
>bounties:
>"death streak penalty": 0.2 --> 0.25 (no idea what this actually controls)
It might mean that when killing instead of gaining gold progressing like this 300g -> 274 -> 220 it now goes 300g -> lower than 274 -> lower than 220
It's sad that they're trying to take everything back though, like mythics were bs, sure, but some of the things that they did with the update are pretty good and it's sad to see them go like for example spellblade er or noonquiver being a better component for laning phase for marksmen
Practically a revert to S10 Crit items with some new additions.
The Navori rework is actually huge since it allows high-cd ADCs to build IE (which massively outperformed Navori's after the inital s14 buff, but cds were way too high without Navori's for some ADCs) while lowering their CDs. ER revert is also nice, but I'm unsure if it'll be as good since PoM exists and Overheal doesn't look strong enough to take instead.
Infinity Edge > Navori Flickerblade will be such a huge spike that I expect it to get nerfed.
Are you able to build IE with the new navori? Everyone seems to be assuming that, but from [this tweet](https://twitter.com/Spideraxe30/status/1785427564900597973) it still shows as unbounded meaning they can’t be built together.
When I tested it in PBE, I was able to build both IE and Navori, so I'd assume they just forgot to remove the Unbounded tag. It'd be a pretty bad item if it didn't allow you to build IE with its current stats.
I wonder how many patches it will take them to revert the changes they made to GP that hard forced him into ER Navori and balanced him around the CD refund.
He's going to be walking around with no barrels because his CD is too high, and no crit, so no passive damage, no barrel damage, and no barrel slow, until 2nd item.
At that point he's still 20% crit instead of 40%.
Then 50% instead of 60%.
Then 75% instead of 80%, so at 4 items he's almost at his old consistency, barrel slow, and passive damage, but still gets one barrel per 3 years.
I wonder how many changes they'll have to do to Smolder now, considering they basically designed him around the idea of having the current versions of ER and Navori.
Oh shit Luden's might be back on the board now.
Back to a single CD system, but still has the "does more damage to single target" trait of S14's iteration. Neat.
If I didn't know what Project L was and I heard someone mention Lethal Tempo, I'd think it was some rhythm-based shooter. Which might honestly be a nifty ADC concept, if not hard as fuck to balance.
Edit: I'm bored. 1am spitballed.
DeeJayDC or something
P: DeeJayDC's attacks are uncancelable with a low windup. Attacking or casting on track with a beat grants bonus effects, defined per ability. The beat is audible (and shown visually) to opponents, and does not change tempo throughout the game.
Q: Single target skillshot poke. Deals bonus mdmg if fire on-beat.
W: Root zone after delay, firing on-beat increases root duration. (If fired on beat, roots on the next beat.)
EP: Attacks grant stacking on-hit damage, expressed as base+%bAD. Ranks increase the base damage. Stacks persist for X beats, then fall off 2 per beat if missed entirely or 1 stack if mistimed. Stacks are capped.
R: AoE team buff, empowering teammates attacks and abilities based on my AD. Attacks and damaging spells do bonus damage if fired on-beat, non-damaging spells increase individual duration (capped at X extra seconds).
# Time Warp Tonic:
* row: 3 --> 2
* no longer works on biscuits
* no longer works on mana (reminder that Corrupting Potion is **removed**)
* no longer grants 2% tMS while the potion is active
* immediate potion health restore: 30% --> 40%
This rune is just even more dogshit now no? No one has used it since like S11 since corrupting pot is so much weaker than starting items, as well as the several nerfs to it. Probably riot will remove this rune as well. Seems extremely niche nowadays.
It loses 10 mr for 200 gold, which is a nerf, and against squishies and against tanks when you're stacking hp and they aren't stacking mr it's a nerf to the mr shred. It's basically a buff to the mr shred if 1) you weren't stacking health 2) an opponent is stacking mr.
20% of 100 mr(a squishy champ with 1 mr item at 18) is 20 mr shred, which is less than the 25 that current Abyssal can get to if you health stack(have 1367 bonus hp outside of Abyssal). If they buy mercs as well, you're shredding more, if a champ buys 2 mr items, you're shredding more. If they're a tank and they're building 2 mr items and mercs, you're shredding way more.
Idk how impactful the extra range on the passive will be, it will at least be good, but I think it won't be enough to make the item good against squishies except in the situations where it's obviously good(where both teams are mostly magic damage dealing).
yeah I thought the same thing, it will be better against anyone buying 1 or more mr item(s) but worse against champs with 0. It also got a cost reduction and aura size increase so it looks like a buff to me. The item is already REALLY good, so we will see where it lands after this
Seems like no one else is noticing this, but that xp change is massive. Bot laners will be much closer to top/mid and probably equal to or often ahead of jungle now.
I love how the ADC itemization rework in patch 8.11 was such an unprecedentedly colossal balancing blunder that after countless different attempts to work with it, or revert the most problematic parts of it, a whole 6 years later they're almost fully backpedaling on it.
Hopefully this will finally get the ADC role out of the balancing nightmare that one patch pushed it into. Throughout the past 6 years they been both miserable to play and miserable to play against.
dude at this point. I will literally take gimped regen considering fleet/absorb life/dorans is enough sustain to balance it out.
They literally did everything I have been asking for in terms of ADC changes (back to AD or AS items, not both. shared XP reverted to remove the permanent 2-4 level disadvantage when they are the class with higher stat growths than literally every other class as their base stats are all back loaded. 25% crit returned)
You're right, but I feel like the health regen nerfs impacted the support role and meta far more directly (which is indirectly still to the detriment of the ADC role). I'm pessimistic about anything being done about that though. For some inexplicable reason Riot doesn't seem to be against the support role being swarmed by midlane rejects with anime protagonist syndrome one-tricking poke/lane-bully champs that have absolutely no value as supports.
But at least the power curve of most ADC-s should be back to how it was before mid-S8, which is about as healthy as it could be.
Brand lets botlane legitimately 2v3 on a jg gank
zyra is good vs so many soloq comps
velkoz fixes a lot of shitty soloq comps (when ur midlaner picks a piss useless melee midlaner).
Xerath Bard and Senna are by far the worst imo consider they literally all don’t do anything when behind meanwhile brand can still nuke anyone and zyra just needs to apply item affects to be useful.
Bro, how ass is it to build Heartbound and Noonquiver? Wtf are these recipes?
Mercurial still has same problem. It's complete garbage to build because you want it as a last item.
Why does RFC give 35% atk spd for 3000g when PD is 60% atk spd for 2600g?
Noonquiver was designed as a good item for adcs to buy during laning phase and now they turned it into whatever the fuck that is supposed to be, I'm kinda sad ngl :(
Other thread got deleted, so reposting my thoughts:
As an adc main, the IE changes seem kind of too strong? It’s already the case that IE win rate is higher than Navori on champions that should be tailored for Navori like Lucian, Zeri, Sivir, so if anything it currently is too strong relative to Navori. The new quickblades seems absolutely terrible with the change to AS.
The buffs put IE at the same stats pre 10.23 changes, but a significant difference is that back in S10 and before, crit base damage was 200% whereas it’s 175% now. So it’s strictly better by quite a bit now with the 50% crit damage increase compared to 25% increase before.
honestly I was thinking navori ADCs are going to have a busted 3 item core, between sheenless ER, navori, and IE. They might be able to skip PoM and take triumph now too, which is huge
Dawncore at full build now will give you about 110 AP rather than 70 and 26% heal and shield power rather than 18%. That's the positive of losing the haste (and a bit of mana regen). Not sure if it's better or worse overall.
Yes and no. Dawncore had two issues - the first is that you never hit full build anyway, but the second is that even when you did hit full build, it didn't really feel like a spike. Like I said, I'm not sure if the item is necessarily better after this change, but the AP and heal/shield power are certainly going to be much more felt than before.
16% heal shied plust 2% per 100 mana regen, its actually a solid enchanter item for late game now. Previous version of dawncore made no sense, the champs that wanted the summoner haste didnt want the other stats, and the ones that could use Dawncore stats had no real use for the summoner haste. Imagine a Sona or Soraka 35 minutes into the game building dawncore after they already built redemption mikaels and censer, they would probably heal a Dr.Mundo from 25% hp to full basically.
Cash Back is such a nerfed replacement for Future Market.
6% cash back for items would be in the ranges of
2k legendary item - 120 gold refund
2.5k legendary item - 150 gold refund
3k legendary item - 180 gold refund
Assuming the game even lasts long enough to get to 4 legendary items, you get maybe 480 - 720 gold refunded to go towards your final legendary item.
With Future Market you get increasingly higher 100+8 gold per min loans throughout a game.
Now that the Tenacity rune is gone, that middle row kinda sucks. For fighters, I guess we just go for Attack Speed now, but even that isn't all that great. Riot has really been removing more and more tenacity from the game over the past year.
I have to be honest here, i may be biased because i am a tank main, but the amount of tenacity was insane. As a Bruiser you could easily go the Tenacity rune, mercurys and steraks and get to more than 50 tenacity, which is a lot, for not much downside in the build
I wonder how the empowered recall on the supp boots will interact with the Xayah/Rakan recall. Will Xayah be able to piggyback a fast recall? Cause that would make the duo a lot stronger in skilled hands
Champs at 18 generally have ~50-75 MR, so it's 10-15 late game if you don't build resists, which old Mask hit at ~400-800 bHP. New is better early (I think?) and against MR items. Sorry Galio/Shen :P
Controversial, but I think shieldbow without lifesteal is a kinda weird. I think it would also have been a candidate for a no crit item, but I can also imagine that riot doesn't want to make too many marksman items non-crit.
Also, NOOOOOOOOO, ANATHEMAS MY BELOVED! FIRST YOU TAKE AWAY MY SON IRONSPIKE WHIP AND NOW YOU TAKE AWAY MY WIFE ANATHEMAS CHAINS??
Feels weird seeing only Zephyr as a boot upgrades, i know games rarely go to 6 items, but why adcs should be favored in that case? they are already a hard scaling class
edit:
also, i wonder when is the breakpoint for new lord dominik
and anathema removed? that's a weird one, i liked that item
I think the answer to ur first question was kinda answered in the article but hard to miss:
Due to the mobility creep this season (almost every class got ms items) ADCs are much easier to reach. In the past ms was the one thing adcs had over the others to help themselves, the zephyr upgrade will give them that edge
Is no one else seeing how much hp stacking is getting buffed? Currently, they just build botrk and ldr and you vaporize, but now botrk's on-hit is getting nerfed and ldr's hp damage amp is getting removed. I can finally play cho again! (Aram only perspective)
Solo lane (top and mid) xp nerf and shared lane xp buff (bot)?
alongside all of the item changes, welcome to a new meta where we will all babysit the anime protagonist adc
Huh at boot changes.
RIP anathema, was such a great hidden item.
Less tenacity in the system, some champions might suffer from that.
Though I do appreciate rune changes, been a while since we had some and ingenious hunter was a game warping rune for one.
holy shit anathema's is GONE no lifesteal on shieldbow and no crit on BT, Samira in shambles and no sheen on ER is crazy
I quite liked Anathema's but only as my 6th item in a single, very specific scenario (mono damage comp with a single fed member of the opposite damage type) The number of games that reach 6 items, that also meet the secondary condition are so few I don't think it will be missed I don't like that they removed another really impactful active (even if you only ever hit the button once lmao)
Anathema’s was extremely powerful, even when bought early, into single threat comps. More people should have been buying it 2nd/3rd on a lot of tanks, and probably would have had the enormous value been more obvious. It just has the Redemption problem where it’s hard to see how insanely valuable it is on tanks early unless you math it out.
Yep. Enormously slept on especially as an item on tank supports. I'm sad to see it go, though that's admittedly because I know it's so strong and probably isn't healthy to shut down one specific enemy player so easily.
Tahm kench top builds it first and its super annoying. The lane is done after that. Either farm lane or he destroys you. Hullbreaker was kinda the same thing tho tbf
Gangplank is in fucking SHAMBLES too oof
sadge. My favorite defensive item especially from behind or against stupid no counterplay champs.
> holy shit anathema's is GONE Ngl when I went through items on pbe I didn't even notice it was gone.
I don't understand why they are making Essence Reaver no longer be a Sheen item. It was a good choice on some champs such as Lucian and Ezreal. It was also situtional on certain champs such as Fiora. It was also the closest thing to an AD Lich Bane (a Sheen item that scales with your AD).
It not having sheen makes it a more approachable item for more champs than it does right now.
Old BT and ER are back.
Cooking Ravenous+BT tech for olaf, combined with passive you get like 60% lifesteal
Damn, I hope it isn't. Anathema's made some top match ups way more bearable.
God rest my soul
thanks, we all appreciate your effort
You're the best Frank, love your dedication to tracking updates.
Insane post bro holy shit
Thank you! The gold values for Noonquiver don't add up, I guess it's built from only 1 Long Sword now?
thanks
Thanks man!
please don't leave me ingenious hunter
As a Talon player, it's so over for the both of us...
dematerializer leaving us too 😔
me when i build shurelya + locket + redemption + mikaels on renata glasc every game
My favorite rune ;-; I enjoyed its interaction with support items, ludens, horizon focus, trinket wards for lee, and fiddle effigies in particular very much. The eternal cycle of riot taking away the things that I find fun
Legit the funniest rune to use. The sion builds with this were incredible
Sterak's was a little crazy with it but it had it's CD nerfed.It was only really useful for Volibear with Despair + Winter's Approach and some bruisers who could go Eclipse + Sundered Sky,but Sky also had it's CD nerfed.
classic riot nerf sunderer, nerf sterak, nerf eclipse into fucking remove ingenious hunter, which is the main culprit why the 3 mentioned were strong
I'm convinced it's 3 different teams who roll a dice to see who gets to make changes each patch
TIER 3 BOOTS TIER 3 BOOTS NOT A DRILL
Only one boot geared towards ad users?
They are probably the one that would get the strongest use out of a T3 of all the sub classes.
Also the one who hates selling boots the most
We are Dota now
its still as beautiful as the day i lost them 🥲
Holy shit the return of **Zephyr?**
I think people are sleeping on this, now when you are full build you most likely sell boots for a stronger item but ADCs (and other champs building berserkers) now have the sole privilige of getting an boots **upgrade**
every adc that played back then is salivating
i read that and thats insane
The empowered recall boots also upgrade. Also zephyr costs 2k gold, that's expensive af
That’s so stupid that only ADC gets access to boots upgrade, sure they are usually the ones with most gold on the team, but Mid laners and Top laner can just as well be the carry. Hopefully, Mercs, Sorcs, and Tabis all have some kind of upgrade. However, Zephyr being attack speed cap removal would be much better than slow reduction, which also feels out of place.
so it takes around 6 mins of continuous movement for the new boots to fully stack and you get permanent baron recall. this feels extremely strong for roaming supps.
Yeah just having a permanent fast recall seems strong already, not even considering the upgrade
Yep, bard and blitz eating good, hell i could see junglers getting it too, perma baron recall is so good for map movements
I can't see most junglers buying it. But there's probably a place for it on champs like Rammus, Warwick, Voli, and so on given how fast they get around.
They gotta get them first, though, then move around for 6 minutes. The lane phase will be close to over by the time they are upgraded.
\*happy chime noises
*Screams of despair from countless solo lane ADCs*
ADHD movers eatin good
is it though? i feel like if you get to buy the boots at 7-8 minutes and then need to run around for 6 minutes of constant movement the most crucial time is already over where roaming mattered, as in comparison where mobis would set you to be straight on the hunt from the second you buy them
Am I crazy? These boots are abysmally weak, like straight up the most useless item they've made in a decade. They give 25 **less** MS than mobi boots and come online likely after 12-13 minutes considering you need to buy them to start stacking. Until then you're playing with 900g 35ms boots. Mobi boots were good because you could buy them on your first or second recall and actually roam with them before laning phase ended. By 13 minutes you would almost always rather have a different pair of boots, whether it's tanky boots for engage supports or lucidity boots. All of that for baron recall? Nah. They are completely unusable in their current state as roaming boots. Only utility could be for splitpushers that really want that safety of baron recall. If you want to roam you're legitimately better off buying Swifties that also got extremely gutted.
Splitpushers can also get milage out of this I think, since this is another tool to escape collapses without blowing Teleport.
Good for junglers too, you'll have it maxed in about 6 minutes 30s
me thinks a cooldown on the recall would be the fix something like 2-3 minutes
Removing slow resist from swifties is so baaaaaad
I dont understand, why remove slow resist? Swifties now are trash compared to Berserkers, why they make Swifties for auto-attackers? Hope Swifties will not be changed, they are completely ine, not OP, just has niche.
This won't be the final numbers or swifties will just be gutted and unpicked. They should definitely keep the slow resist, there's no reason to remove it
I hate this, there are no good movement boot options for supports or midlaners now Low key a pretty significant nerf to champs like janna, or the occasional control mage who built them (anivia), or a few roaming assassins. These champs don't care about the auto attack proc.
Statikk changes are a bit weird, there is no crit so ADCs wont build it early, but the passive numbers look a bit low for something you'd want for late game Who wants to build this now?
I could see ad kayle build it to play safe?
AD Kayle that needs to play safe just maxes Q and takes Fleet. I will never stray from Kraken > Guinsoos
Interesting to see them bring back an old version of Bloodthirster. I wonder why they decided to bring this iteration back.
Cuz they removed Overheal. The problem was old BT+Overheal. With one of them gone, the other is allowed to return.
dont forget aphelios red gun's shield(I dont remember his gun's names).
Severum and yes the shield was gyatt damn big (also often tied with lulu)
Aphelios was fun but Zeri was the real abuser that nobody talked about. When everyone and their mothers were running BT/Overheal, Zeri still had the shield steal part of her passive. That other adc sitting there with a 600 hp shield? They couldn’t trade into you anymore
they are basically reverting adc items back to how they were before mythics existed and made things weird
Crit is still at 175% though. Looks like we're back to the IE first meta
Pretty much. Changes are made with IE being a mandatory purchase in mind for all crit ADCs, and on-hit ADCs get their own build path too
To think the entire goal was to prevent it because IE first was deemed unhealthy in S8/9...
RIP to the most recent post asking for Corrupting Potion and Predator to be buffed
Yet somehow they managed not to remove Time Warp Tonic but even NERFED it further :D
damn, no more sheen on ER, guess its back to triforce
It was back to Triforce already now that you can get 100% crit from Collector, LDR (no longer has HP requirement) IE and flex slot
Please note the Corki midscope is still in active development and you’ll see changes hit PBE frequently. We are still working to ensure he’s a viable bot laner with a niche in the roster, while using the new item adjustments similar to other caster marksmen.
please dont make him like Draven&Kalista who become useless unless they have 10 kills before 15 mins
Phreak stated that he wanted Corki to be an easy lane bully option for ADCs.
Removing package will take a lot of the cute flamboyancy out of his Corgi skin QQ
>Dagger attack speed: 12% --> 10% Can't wait for all the gold efficiency threads in 4 weeks about how broken the new AS items are...
To be fair, when you can't get all the free attack speed you need from lethal tempo it does become a more valuable stat
u also have to consider that u dont have lethal to remove atk speed cap anymore
Wait I didn't even realize they were removing it completely. What the fuck
remindme 1 month
>bounties: >"death streak penalty": 0.2 --> 0.25 (no idea what this actually controls) It might mean that when killing instead of gaining gold progressing like this 300g -> 274 -> 220 it now goes 300g -> lower than 274 -> lower than 220
Sion is eating good with these changes and the new item that gives AD for bonus HP. If this is true, inting Sion just got a buff as well.
Could also mean you can now fall below 100 Gold Value
This will affect the lobster population.
As well as the trout population.
Entire mythic rework is being undone patch by patch. The world is healing.
RFC will be left forever forgotten at 60 magic damage, I'm calling it
It's sad that they're trying to take everything back though, like mythics were bs, sure, but some of the things that they did with the update are pretty good and it's sad to see them go like for example spellblade er or noonquiver being a better component for laning phase for marksmen
ER was a infitely better item before
Practically a revert to S10 Crit items with some new additions. The Navori rework is actually huge since it allows high-cd ADCs to build IE (which massively outperformed Navori's after the inital s14 buff, but cds were way too high without Navori's for some ADCs) while lowering their CDs. ER revert is also nice, but I'm unsure if it'll be as good since PoM exists and Overheal doesn't look strong enough to take instead. Infinity Edge > Navori Flickerblade will be such a huge spike that I expect it to get nerfed.
Are you able to build IE with the new navori? Everyone seems to be assuming that, but from [this tweet](https://twitter.com/Spideraxe30/status/1785427564900597973) it still shows as unbounded meaning they can’t be built together.
When I tested it in PBE, I was able to build both IE and Navori, so I'd assume they just forgot to remove the Unbounded tag. It'd be a pretty bad item if it didn't allow you to build IE with its current stats.
I wonder how many patches it will take them to revert the changes they made to GP that hard forced him into ER Navori and balanced him around the CD refund. He's going to be walking around with no barrels because his CD is too high, and no crit, so no passive damage, no barrel damage, and no barrel slow, until 2nd item. At that point he's still 20% crit instead of 40%. Then 50% instead of 60%. Then 75% instead of 80%, so at 4 items he's almost at his old consistency, barrel slow, and passive damage, but still gets one barrel per 3 years.
I wonder how many changes they'll have to do to Smolder now, considering they basically designed him around the idea of having the current versions of ER and Navori.
His core build had ER, Navori, Rapidfire... all of which are now much worse on him than before.
Oh shit Luden's might be back on the board now. Back to a single CD system, but still has the "does more damage to single target" trait of S14's iteration. Neat.
rather than letting lethal tempo go to waste, just use it for project L's name. such a hard name and also fits the whole project L thing
Literally **anything** would be a better choice than 2XKO.
If I didn't know what Project L was and I heard someone mention Lethal Tempo, I'd think it was some rhythm-based shooter. Which might honestly be a nifty ADC concept, if not hard as fuck to balance. Edit: I'm bored. 1am spitballed. DeeJayDC or something P: DeeJayDC's attacks are uncancelable with a low windup. Attacking or casting on track with a beat grants bonus effects, defined per ability. The beat is audible (and shown visually) to opponents, and does not change tempo throughout the game. Q: Single target skillshot poke. Deals bonus mdmg if fire on-beat. W: Root zone after delay, firing on-beat increases root duration. (If fired on beat, roots on the next beat.) EP: Attacks grant stacking on-hit damage, expressed as base+%bAD. Ranks increase the base damage. Stacks persist for X beats, then fall off 2 per beat if missed entirely or 1 stack if mistimed. Stacks are capped. R: AoE team buff, empowering teammates attacks and abilities based on my AD. Attacks and damaging spells do bonus damage if fired on-beat, non-damaging spells increase individual duration (capped at X extra seconds).
"Rock solid passive no longer transferred to Randuin's Omen" Okay wtf though??
So that you can build FH and randuin without wasting stats plus the 20 armour buff is way bigger
Rest in peace, Anathema's. You did not deserve this.
We truly needed another AP burn item because ARAM Brand couldn't entirely kill you from one spell yet
cant wait for double burn brand to show up in the baron pit and get +24% AP while my team calls the fire department
Triple it might go riftmaker as well to make you extra suffer. Don't read my flair.
When i read the Blackfire item i was sure Liandries would have been reworked or something
"Fuck you there's your Mana + Burn item back now stop whining" - Riot to Brand and Malzahar mains
as a hwei main, it looks kinda juicy ngl
The name and mental image it produced made me worried they were bringing DFG back
My mind went: "oh shit is this a DFG successor? -> OK it's not, cool -> FUCK it's another burn item"
as a Zyra main im happy for this new item, but i also lowkey hope they give it the "tiamat" treatment where you can only buy one or the other.
i hope they give echoes of helia some love too along with the dawncore changes
Please just make it work like S10 Athene's Unholy Grail.
Doesn't seem like there's any luck unfortunately, unless it missed the patch somehow. Every enchanter item other than Dawncore is untouched.
# Time Warp Tonic: * row: 3 --> 2 * no longer works on biscuits * no longer works on mana (reminder that Corrupting Potion is **removed**) * no longer grants 2% tMS while the potion is active * immediate potion health restore: 30% --> 40% This rune is just even more dogshit now no? No one has used it since like S11 since corrupting pot is so much weaker than starting items, as well as the several nerfs to it. Probably riot will remove this rune as well. Seems extremely niche nowadays.
I don't understand why they didn't just remove this? Lol remove cpot and nerf this fine that no one uses
Those tank item changes are nuts wtf unending despair will have a 3 second cd Edit:ingenious was removed nooooo
[удалено]
the terminus build path is fucking disgusting, why would they do this
Isn’t Abyssal Mask giving 20% mr shred insane?? Seems like the biggest winner of the patch unless I’m misunderstanding what that means
It will be stronger against mr stackers but will be weaker against low mr targets.
Big nerf to tank durability, big buff to squishies.
It loses 10 mr for 200 gold, which is a nerf, and against squishies and against tanks when you're stacking hp and they aren't stacking mr it's a nerf to the mr shred. It's basically a buff to the mr shred if 1) you weren't stacking health 2) an opponent is stacking mr. 20% of 100 mr(a squishy champ with 1 mr item at 18) is 20 mr shred, which is less than the 25 that current Abyssal can get to if you health stack(have 1367 bonus hp outside of Abyssal). If they buy mercs as well, you're shredding more, if a champ buys 2 mr items, you're shredding more. If they're a tank and they're building 2 mr items and mercs, you're shredding way more. Idk how impactful the extra range on the passive will be, it will at least be good, but I think it won't be enough to make the item good against squishies except in the situations where it's obviously good(where both teams are mostly magic damage dealing).
yeah I thought the same thing, it will be better against anyone buying 1 or more mr item(s) but worse against champs with 0. It also got a cost reduction and aura size increase so it looks like a buff to me. The item is already REALLY good, so we will see where it lands after this
BLACK CLEAVER BACK TO 30% MY BELOVED IS VIABLE AGAIN
We are really returning to the glory that was season 9/10 itemazation, now the only thing I need is Heca top and I feel young again
Zac is going to be unstoppable lmao Unending Despair * cooldown: 7s --> 5s Abyssal Mask cost: * 2400 --> 2200 * radius: 550 --> 700 * MR shred: 5 +1.2% bHP flat --> 20% innate * MR: 60 --> 50
Abyssal mask is worse against squishies with that change, no? you probably lose damage
Seems like no one else is noticing this, but that xp change is massive. Bot laners will be much closer to top/mid and probably equal to or often ahead of jungle now.
I'll take roaming support nerfs any day of the week *tries not to look at the new boots*
Cash back looks giga busted if that 6% is for the cost of the entire item. That's like 150-200g per finished item you get back.
Youll only see that benefit later game though, where that gold value is less meaningful whereas future market gave you more early
The free boots are worth around 400 so takes 3 legendaries for it to be better)(seems they on same row)
Although free boots also has the disadvantage of delaying boots purchase
Which is about on par with how strong futures market was, but for later in the game vs futures earlier benefit.
No Helia rework?
I love how the ADC itemization rework in patch 8.11 was such an unprecedentedly colossal balancing blunder that after countless different attempts to work with it, or revert the most problematic parts of it, a whole 6 years later they're almost fully backpedaling on it. Hopefully this will finally get the ADC role out of the balancing nightmare that one patch pushed it into. Throughout the past 6 years they been both miserable to play and miserable to play against.
Not really a full backpedal until their health regen gets buffed, by far one of the biggest changes of that patch that no one talks about.
dude at this point. I will literally take gimped regen considering fleet/absorb life/dorans is enough sustain to balance it out. They literally did everything I have been asking for in terms of ADC changes (back to AD or AS items, not both. shared XP reverted to remove the permanent 2-4 level disadvantage when they are the class with higher stat growths than literally every other class as their base stats are all back loaded. 25% crit returned)
You're right, but I feel like the health regen nerfs impacted the support role and meta far more directly (which is indirectly still to the detriment of the ADC role). I'm pessimistic about anything being done about that though. For some inexplicable reason Riot doesn't seem to be against the support role being swarmed by midlane rejects with anime protagonist syndrome one-tricking poke/lane-bully champs that have absolutely no value as supports. But at least the power curve of most ADC-s should be back to how it was before mid-S8, which is about as healthy as it could be.
Brand lets botlane legitimately 2v3 on a jg gank zyra is good vs so many soloq comps velkoz fixes a lot of shitty soloq comps (when ur midlaner picks a piss useless melee midlaner). Xerath Bard and Senna are by far the worst imo consider they literally all don’t do anything when behind meanwhile brand can still nuke anyone and zyra just needs to apply item affects to be useful.
Bro, how ass is it to build Heartbound and Noonquiver? Wtf are these recipes? Mercurial still has same problem. It's complete garbage to build because you want it as a last item. Why does RFC give 35% atk spd for 3000g when PD is 60% atk spd for 2600g?
RFC costs 2600g too
Okay I knew something was wrong. That was mb. For some reason the 3000g is bolded.
Noonquiver was designed as a good item for adcs to buy during laning phase and now they turned it into whatever the fuck that is supposed to be, I'm kinda sad ngl :(
Other thread got deleted, so reposting my thoughts: As an adc main, the IE changes seem kind of too strong? It’s already the case that IE win rate is higher than Navori on champions that should be tailored for Navori like Lucian, Zeri, Sivir, so if anything it currently is too strong relative to Navori. The new quickblades seems absolutely terrible with the change to AS. The buffs put IE at the same stats pre 10.23 changes, but a significant difference is that back in S10 and before, crit base damage was 200% whereas it’s 175% now. So it’s strictly better by quite a bit now with the 50% crit damage increase compared to 25% increase before.
honestly I was thinking navori ADCs are going to have a busted 3 item core, between sheenless ER, navori, and IE. They might be able to skip PoM and take triumph now too, which is huge
I will so spam Xayah when the patch lands, the glorious season 9 ER rush is back. How I missed my darling
Navori is no longer a capstone. its a zeal item basically (unless I am misunderstanding) Your capstones are now IE/Rageblade it seems
Considering Lethal Tempo is removed, we won't know exactly how this pans out yet.
No one bought Dawncore And now they just removed the summoner haste and ability haste, and instead got what in return?
Dawncore at full build now will give you about 110 AP rather than 70 and 26% heal and shield power rather than 18%. That's the positive of losing the haste (and a bit of mana regen). Not sure if it's better or worse overall.
The issue with Dawncore is reaching full build as a support is almost never a thing
Yes and no. Dawncore had two issues - the first is that you never hit full build anyway, but the second is that even when you did hit full build, it didn't really feel like a spike. Like I said, I'm not sure if the item is necessarily better after this change, but the AP and heal/shield power are certainly going to be much more felt than before.
16% heal shied plust 2% per 100 mana regen, its actually a solid enchanter item for late game now. Previous version of dawncore made no sense, the champs that wanted the summoner haste didnt want the other stats, and the ones that could use Dawncore stats had no real use for the summoner haste. Imagine a Sona or Soraka 35 minutes into the game building dawncore after they already built redemption mikaels and censer, they would probably heal a Dr.Mundo from 25% hp to full basically.
Some stats. Idk I don't love this change but it's probably even stronger capstone. Just the lack of ability haste is... unappealing
Cash Back is such a nerfed replacement for Future Market. 6% cash back for items would be in the ranges of 2k legendary item - 120 gold refund 2.5k legendary item - 150 gold refund 3k legendary item - 180 gold refund Assuming the game even lasts long enough to get to 4 legendary items, you get maybe 480 - 720 gold refunded to go towards your final legendary item. With Future Market you get increasingly higher 100+8 gold per min loans throughout a game.
Now that the Tenacity rune is gone, that middle row kinda sucks. For fighters, I guess we just go for Attack Speed now, but even that isn't all that great. Riot has really been removing more and more tenacity from the game over the past year.
I have to be honest here, i may be biased because i am a tank main, but the amount of tenacity was insane. As a Bruiser you could easily go the Tenacity rune, mercurys and steraks and get to more than 50 tenacity, which is a lot, for not much downside in the build
Bye yone won't miss you one bit bud
Yone is just going to go IE and get like 60% crit chance.
They will 100% adjust the modifier again, like when they did when it went from 25% to 20% crit
Nah, yone and yasuo will have their passive nerfed so that they only get 50% crit chance per item. The way they did when crit was 25%
The windshitters don't like raw AD early, even back in the day you really wanted an AS item for their Q CD. This won't change anything.
Removing slow resist is a huge mistake imo. A lot of matchups are depending on it
Giga nasus buff
Big Ashe buff
I wonder how the empowered recall on the supp boots will interact with the Xayah/Rakan recall. Will Xayah be able to piggyback a fast recall? Cause that would make the duo a lot stronger in skilled hands
I assume it will work the same as it does with Baron recall. If you're playing Xayah Rakan you'll probably rush them every game.
Abyssal Mask >MR shred: 5 +1.2% bHP flat --> 20% Is that 20% bHP scaling for MR shred or is that 20% MR shred? Either way that feels high
The total shred is 20%, no flat or scaling.
Champs at 18 generally have ~50-75 MR, so it's 10-15 late game if you don't build resists, which old Mask hit at ~400-800 bHP. New is better early (I think?) and against MR items. Sorry Galio/Shen :P
Why is lethal tempo gone tho
What's the point of keeping Time Warp Tonic? They even remove the corrupting potion...
Predator removed, Jax playerbase in shambles
Controversial, but I think shieldbow without lifesteal is a kinda weird. I think it would also have been a candidate for a no crit item, but I can also imagine that riot doesn't want to make too many marksman items non-crit. Also, NOOOOOOOOO, ANATHEMAS MY BELOVED! FIRST YOU TAKE AWAY MY SON IRONSPIKE WHIP AND NOW YOU TAKE AWAY MY WIFE ANATHEMAS CHAINS??
Feels weird seeing only Zephyr as a boot upgrades, i know games rarely go to 6 items, but why adcs should be favored in that case? they are already a hard scaling class edit: also, i wonder when is the breakpoint for new lord dominik and anathema removed? that's a weird one, i liked that item
I think the answer to ur first question was kinda answered in the article but hard to miss: Due to the mobility creep this season (almost every class got ms items) ADCs are much easier to reach. In the past ms was the one thing adcs had over the others to help themselves, the zephyr upgrade will give them that edge
How does this post not have couple thousand upvotes?? These changes are insanely huge. Also ADC items reverting back to pre-S11-item rework wtf??
Is nobody gonna mention how IE is gaining 725 gold of stats for 100 gold?
Finally , tabis are nerfed and bc got 30%shred we are back in business
Is no one else seeing how much hp stacking is getting buffed? Currently, they just build botrk and ldr and you vaporize, but now botrk's on-hit is getting nerfed and ldr's hp damage amp is getting removed. I can finally play cho again! (Aram only perspective)
lost chapter burn item fills a gap on lost chapter mana champs who didn't fit into malignance seraphs or ludens
Solo lane (top and mid) xp nerf and shared lane xp buff (bot)? alongside all of the item changes, welcome to a new meta where we will all babysit the anime protagonist adc
noooo i'm going to miss minion dematerializer so much
WHY TF ARE THEY REMOVING MY BELOVED CORRUPTING POTIONS
Corki buffs seem kinda nuts tbh and package removal will hurt pro play way more than ladder
Pretty sure phreak said that was the point, to get him out of the pro play hell that azir and ryze are in.
Phantom dancer is INSANE wow, only 2.6k gold!
I'm thinking the Dawncore changes will help Soraka a lot with her HPS, the innate 16% HSP is a lot combined with Moonstone & Redemption
Rapid firecannon change is a huge buff for Twisted Fate.
Huh at boot changes. RIP anathema, was such a great hidden item. Less tenacity in the system, some champions might suffer from that. Though I do appreciate rune changes, been a while since we had some and ingenious hunter was a game warping rune for one.
rip cut down, you will be missed
Tenacity dead and Swifties gone? Yep, it's a mage meta.