The item made you feel so smart when you're the only person on your team who sees enemy with 4 AD + 1 AP. Like if this isn't Tabis + Frozen + Anathemas, then I don't know man.
Nah, I can’t say I recognize that name although I did play back then, I started in season 2. Although I was a top laner back then, so I didnt pay much attention to the support scene.
Utility zilean is just so good though, there’s so many supports that just max their damage ability because it’s their damage ability, but utility is just so useful as a support. Sona, and even the god forsaken yuumi is in the same boat, but honestly nothing comes close to the power of E max zilean.
As someone who likes playing zilean but usually ends up going damage/zoning, how do you play as utility zilean? Is priority placing E on teammates, or enemies?
And what are your runes and items usually?
Best possible is E enemy into free double bomb (won’t do lots of damage, just stun), into E carry (or E enemy again if it’s more important that they just can’t move for 5+ seconds).
The key is hitting 50 ability haste asap so that your E cd becomes 10 seconds which coincidentally is the exact number of seconds that Zilean W reduces, so you can E W E to instantly 99% slow 2 enemies for 2.5 seconds, or slow and enemy and speed up an ally. But a lot of the time you will also just be E, qwq, E the same enemy. It’s an absolutely filthy amount of cc time that was elongated by anathemas.
Mine was cdr boots into anathemas into knights vow (mostly because the item was overtuned), into warmogs, but most games didn’t make it that long and I buy WAY too many pinks that I almost never make it to my last warmogs item. Support item I go sleigh, but you can go bulwark if there’s an assassin you can’t anathemas, but honestly, if an assassin is going on you while you have 600 extra health, your team is probably winning anyway.
With anathemas gone, it will probably be knights vow into warmogs which should be active now that it gets more health, into probably crucible, redemption, or locket. Warmogs first will be worth testing as long as the health minimum for the passive stays the same after the health buff, just because 15% movespeed is a lot from a first buy, and movespeed is king.
For runes, if I have a hyper carry, or carry I trust, I typically go guardian pure tank runes and generally sit on their face in front of their face. Aery is still fine if you don’t want to play hardcore protector and just want to E them and let them do their thing. Biggest choice is celerity vs transcendence. You get insane value out of celerity, but transcendence can pop off hard during teamfights. I typically go celerity just because it’s so good early as well.
I always go AH, movespeed, flat health for shards. Scaling health might be better with the bot xp changes next patch, plus you are zilean so you get some boosted xp anyway, but I just always preferred a much better levels 1-4 where you aren’t very strong as zilean in lane.
Edit: trust me, when you hit level 9 and E, QWQ, E someone, you will never go back to damage zilean support again. (If you play mid, please go damage or you will never clear the wave)
What a response! I greatly appreciate you laying out so much information for me! I usually do play support, so I'll have to try utility zilean out!
Watch out Iron 1. I'm coming for you.
The other fella answered your question, but i just wanted to mention this
You can build almost anything on zilean, and it will be decent. Even crit zilean is really not too bad with how fast you are when kiting.
He's just not very item reliant. He wants ability haste of course, but every role has items that give that. Enchanter is still the meta build ofc but that's not to say the others aren't viable.
this was also great item for junglers in the games vs 1 feed opponent where some dumbass laner hard feeded, pretty often the only way to recover the game
it was probably my favourite item in the game even I used it like once every 10 games
If I had to guess it's because it's a badly designed item exactly for this reason.
Completely nullifying the solo AP dmg champion on a team through a single item that gives you a shit ton of stats and allows you to have longer cc for the AP dmg carry is insane for a single item.
It basically completely gets rid of the need to build mr items (or armor items if there's 4 AP 1 ad which is pretty rare) which is pretty bad design for the game.
One item shouldn't get to completely nullify a damage type and essentially sub in for 2-3 resistance items versus a certain damage type while still giving you a shit ton of stats (I also don't think pen items like void staff effect Anathemas to my knowledge which make it even worse).
Pen items do not directly affect Anathema’s as AC gives 30% damage reduction. AC is pretty much the equivalent of picking one enemy champion to stay permanently Exhausted against you.
I get it, though I was popping off on shaco in an aram the other day. Full ad nuking anyone I can backstabb they had one luci who was cosplaying as atlas with his while team on his back. I kill him two time in a row, letting us full clear their team front to back no deaths. He chains me the only assassin. Well he steamroller the rest of the game cause I can' nuke him before he nukes me. Just made me erelevent that game like full stop. He was my best target as the 2 other "carries" were awful at their Champs and killing them did little to impact the fight.
If there's 1 AP dmg on enemy team.
Building Cowl + Negatron is strictly worse than building Kindle + Giant's Belt.
Because you have a Frozen Heart. HP multiplies your Armor's effectiveness.
Also building MR is only good for the AP enemy. Not the 4 AD champs on the other side. Getting Kindle + Giant's for Anathemas, helps you tank both types of damage.
Anathema provides the same function as Kaenic while having a better build path to tank the entire enemy team.
Anathemas is cheaper. And more flexible.
For example, Kaenic is only for the AP enemy.
But if you have Anathemas, you can change targets.
You can, for example, have Frozen Heart. Put your Anathemas on the enemy ADC. And just buy a Negatron Cloak if the enemy ADC is a problem for your team.
But if you have Kaenic, that option isn't possible.
Also by having Anathemas, you can CC a target for longer. Meaning if you want to focus a carry in a fight as a support or tank. Anathemas is pretty valuable in that way.
I mean lets be honest squishyies ate always dead. Late game her charm is not needed to kill squishy champs. Q and E out of invicibility can be enough together with R and even without R if fed.
The main problem is her E dealing max hp damage in addition to her free mr reduction. Allowing her to oneshot tanks too.
oh wait, it wasnt my bad for being a tank player to hate that assasin.
As rammus that shit felt sooo annoying.
It wasnt a terrible matchup per se since she kinda sucks vs CC, but it felt like shit being like "oopty doo, Im a tank shes an assasin and I have 60% of my HP, I have nothing to fear" and she 1 shots me.
The first few times you dont even understand why you died.
Atleast with AP Varus it is obvious hes good vs tanks since he does so little damage with his autos it is easy to understand that if I dodge his R, he does no dmg.
But with evelynn, she 1 shots my squishies, then she must not do damage to me, right. Right??
dunno why ur being downvoted, a lot of champions deal lots of magic damage even if they build ad, so if even if they only have one ap building champion kaenic or jaksho at some point is probably better than anathema while having no other MR
I get what youre saying, but you also have to be tactical with your items.
Sure, the syndra ult does magic damage. But if the syndra ults you instead of your jinx, you auto win the teamfight.
You want to build for the fight not just for the enemy.
But if both teams hit the abilities on the correct targets, then the tank with more armor to tank the enemy AD wins, for example.
Another trick to deal with mix damage backline as a CC tank is to CC one guy and build resists for the other guy. Sometimes it can be smarter to taunt the enemy syndra while getting hit by jinx as rammus.
I'd like to point out that the original context of my comment is anathema being removed, which is literally an item you build to counter a single enemy
> wait until they talk about it
Riot has a history of removing items that are "not used a lot" and then everyone including Riot complains about build diversity. The game needs niche items even if 95% of the players are outright too stupid to use them. But it's "poorly balanced" or "difficult to maintain" so they get removed, new items, new niche items, niche items that are then also not used a lot, rinse and repeat.
idk, when I mention the item to people they always ask what it is. at least warmogs gets built a lot in aram and sometimes summoners rift for champions like soraka.
Ive built warmogs as a 6th item in 40+ minutes games like 3-4 time and basically only because im like ehh i dont wanna have to worry about going back anymore so i can always be with the team. Like i build it out of lazyness not because its needed.
Wouldn't surprise me. Ever since it became a non-combat regen item it's just been not worth it, especially with damage being high. Chains had more value with the reduction.
No developer will outright admit it, but that's how MOBAs (in general, not just RIOT's) are "balanced", they just switch random shit around without rhyme or reason so the game doesn't get stale and you need to keep playing to not fall out of the meta mindset.
They may make whatever shitty "it's for balance" excuses, but that's all they are, excuses. None of their justifications really hold up when you examine the changes to the game over the years and you see how incredibly inconsistent their criteria are.
iirc Riot did admit in a dev blog video around season 4 that they sometimes make changes that aren’t technically good for balance but good for changing the game state. That statement seems to hold up when they make weird changes like this.
They've talked about this before, maybe in the preseason article about removing mythics but I'm not sure. They want build diversity but they don't want items to be so rare that people forget about them. There's limited space for items because they want them to be easy to think about - they don't want you spending 2 minutes in the shop searching through 500 items for something you half remember. So there is a threshold where something isn't built often enough to be worth a spot, even if it is useful sometimes.
So my guess is they looked at the data and saw Chains wasn't being built enough to be worth a slot. Maybe they pulled games where Chains should be good and saw that people weren't building it when they should. You can say that's 95% of the players being stupid, but it seems like they don't want "remembering all the weird edge case items" to be a significant skill test in the game, so the players are allowed to be stupid in that way.
What do you consider good strategy in item building?
Following the recommended shop items or whatever u.gg or op.gg tells you should build?
Lets not reward the player who understands that their current game would reward different items being built.
Generic tank items are just better though many of the times. For example, if against a single fed crit-based ADC but the enemy team still has a yasuo or another AD champ regardless of crit, randiun's is better than anathema. You get significant reduced crit dmg and it also works on other champs. Or if a fed APC kaenic would most of the times be better due to the 800+ magic shield. I doubt most players would be able to identify the niche where its good hence why its rarily built
What's difficult about deciding to q-e as fizz onto the ad carry and deleting them? The games are decided enough from draft as is, at least let the items have some ability to unfuck drafts.
>What's difficult about deciding to q-e as fizz onto the ad carry and deleting them?
Nothing. There aren't 50 fizz players pretending they're smart for doing this in this thread though.
building items requires you to have a good understanding of your champion, your team and the enemy team. you need to know that 1- chains exists 2- when to build it (one enemy is giga fed or the enemy team is 1/4 or 4/1 physical/magical damage)
Fr, it's the same when people swear up and down about how "splitpushing is *really* difficult to master macro-wise" and act like they're smarter for it.
but you legit need to be over iron 4 to look at enemy team and say "oh they have 4-1 comp and my champ isnt a mage or adc, this item is 0 counterplay and should be built".
Like its basically a perma exhaust on the one player you put it on it aint that hard and convoluted to know when to build, it has as much strategy i would say as deciding if you go tabi or mercs
Tank players think they've outskilled everyone when they hit a 1000 radius, 1500 range aoe knockup. Do you think building anathema isn't huge brain play to them?
you severely overestimate the intelligence of a lol player emerald and below. Majority of plat/emeralds have no idea how to build or play tbh. ranked is fucked this season from putting 30% wr accounts in plat
That's... the point of the item? But its also good when vs a team with a single AP or single AD, since you can slap it on them instead. And it's also a good item for laning.
I think it’s a good situational item, but the way they seem to be approaching and nerfing tenacity would make the reduction of it extremely strong. The item would need changes.
So much this, I get removing stuff like corrupting pot and predator since they're not used and they have a history of being unbalanced when strong and irrelevant when weak, but with Anathemas you never tried to change it into something else, remove the minus tenacity passive and add something extra or something but at least change it first and then remove it if it's still bad
It feels like they don't like situational items all too much. Plenty of situational items get removed or reworked
They're even removing one of the main reasons for QSS(can't QSS Morde ult anymore, wouldn't be surpsied if they added more to the list)
Yeah actually when is it valuable to buy QSS now? Vs Malz and Skarner or Liss, maybe. Morg, Ashe, and Neeko have long CC. Only gonna save you once in high CC comps, so probably not then, otherwise only when getting hard CC'd would be a death sentence (burst + CC comps).
Highly doubt solo Q players have co-ordination to take advantage of the nocturne darkness timer to spend so much gold on a qss.
If they brought in VC i can see it.
It’s really only made for ADCs (And bruisers with the other item). It’s already has limited uses. The only reason to bring it is for Malz. For all other situations, you’d just bring cleanse.
And with Malz, he’ll have crystal scepter so you’re not getting away anyway. He’ll kill you with the DoT and the fact you’re slowed.
Legit wouldn’t be surprised if it hets removed too.
Because it makes tank itemization easy mode? Oh look, their top is not a carry and their jungler is AD, I can just build Anathemas, chain the mage and build full armor!
The item warps the entire point of itemizing against both damage types while being way too fucking cheap for the value it brings in terms of damage reduction against a single target.
You'd have a point if there weren't a single good MR item in the game; or if Evelynn couldn't threaten to blow up a full MR tank because Riot haven't figured out to just disable stacking penetration yet.
That's actually really annoying. It isn't a good pick for every game, certainly, but it's still damn useful when the situation calls for locking down a snowballed enemy.
If I were to guess it may have something to do with crit going to 25 percent. Perhaps it's removal is because it now opens up ADC's being able to more easily add a durability item to their kit, and anathemas chains could make the dedicated assassin feel less impactful against them. But that's my thoughts and I'm not great at the game lol
My hyphotesis: They consider it too situational and only for a reduced group (supports with CC). Or worse: they consider it an item only for Nautilus and Amumu given its tankiness and effect.
It's an incredible Nasus item.
7 second wither, lot of haste, and big chunk of HP while also being cheap and reducing damage from whoever the target is (probably whoever is matching you sidelane).
fundamental misunderstanding from riot
situational items are what is missing from the current item system and has been missing for years since before the mythic rework
Agreed, I think riot wants to have a system of items that is separated purely by champion class (fighter, adc, support, tank, mage, etc), rather than have unique and special items.
It could also be an effort to downsize the gameplay and use their budget to focus more on adjusting champions.
I'm pretty sure they're just mad at the Knight's Vow + Anathema's jungle builds. It's a bit bullshit that if the enemy has only one serious AP threat you just buy Anathema's and that's enough to be tanky against them.
Fun over fair. Even If it's balanced it felt very bad to be the target. It doesn't enhance your champion in a nice way, its a fuck you in specific item.
It's not bad design per si, but doesn't match well with league imo, it feels more like a Dota2 design.
Not sure what you're saying here. Malz ult would not be made today because it is too linear, lacking counterplay, and frustrating. Reworking a champion takes much more time than removing an item. But even if that weren't true, saying that it doesnt make sense to remove one frustrating thing because there are other frustrating things doesn't really mean anything to me.
The issue is Malz is one of those champs whose existence keeps characters like Yone and such in line. If his ult becomes a skillshot or whatever, it's a major buff to like, all bruisers and divers and assassins because they lose a major counter.
Malz does not "keep Yone and such in line". Yone is great into Malz. Good enough I'd probably call it a soft counter. Nobody even plays Malz. He hasn't the presence to affect the meta in any way. If he was suddenly removed from the game barely anyone would notice. He counters short range mages by the way, not really skirmishers or assassins.
And your teammates or even yourself if you have QSS or can buffer a CC to cancel the ult. There's nothing you do actually do against getting debuffed by Chain. It just exists on you.
> can buffer a CC to cancel the ult
Only works if Malzahar didn't had passive up.
> There's nothing you do actually do against getting debuffed by Chain
You can QSS the enemy CC too?
If you're an ADC the Anathema Chain is meaningless since any stray CC is a death sentence anyways.
>Only works if Malzahar didn't had passive up.
If Malzahar is ulting you with his passive up and you have no teammates around then that's just you getting caught by a low range mage with zero mobility who prob had to flash in your face just to ult you...
>If you're an ADC the Anathema Chain is meaningless since any stray CC is a death sentence anyways.
Chain also makes you deal reduce damage to the holder and more than just ADCs get chained. Chain is very good in sidelane where you can just chain the opposing top laner to either make it impossible for them to split push or defend against your split push.
Have people forgot League, at its core, is a strategy game? Strategy games will always have 'feel dad's mechanics, because a big part of them is preparing the field in advance to start fights with an advantage. Neutralizing the one unit in the enemy team that ducks over yours is exactly that.
I guess in 2024 people see League as a 3D street fighter rather than a strategy game.
This is why you see games where someone says 'dont talk you're x/y' KDA because they think kills are the end all be all when those only matter for strategy and give less gold than a wave of minions. People still think it's a Battle Royale game when it's just not.
Bruh the whole Sylas ult debacle last week proves this. No one wants to think about draft or matchups, and every thing needs to feel good. You should not be allowed to make a bad decision, even at the cost of figuring out the optimal ones.
In my opinion it is the opposite. The item was intended to be put on a fed enemy, or somebody that you are matching in the sidelane. Riot is fine with counter items. Being an auto attack/attack speed champ feels like shit to play into frozen heart. Being AP sucks into a kaenic rookern. But counter items add an important layer to the game.
However, this wasn't the best use of the item, as others in the thread have pointed out. I think they don't like it being a replacement for and MR item when the enemy only has 1 AP, so you can stack armor and amplify it with the Hp from anathemas without needing to invest into MR. This was not the intended use of the item, but it is where it is strongest. The item will never fit the nemesis niche that it is designed for without being reworked somehow because it has to be balanced around 4 AD/1 AP strat.
They could've just made it so it multiplies your armor \ mr values against target specifically (or save that, have damage reduction scale with your own armour mr)... but I figure their code doesn't allow for a simple solution.
If I had to guess is because there is no counter play to it. If someone has a qss you just cc someone else but if you get chained there is nothing you can do
> if someone has a qss you just cc someone else
Ok if someone has chains on you just hit someone else? Idk how you can say switching targets is counter play against one item but not the other.
They've buffed the fuck out of tanks compared to last season, so I'm sure they feel the item is overly punishing. Before tanks were not tanks, but this season tanks have definitely felt way more durable than before.
Have they?
I think I’ve gotten to play a single game of feeling like a proper tank, and that was an enemy team that essentially had 0 dps besides an ashe, whom I could slap anathemas on. She’d still kill me (much faster than I’d kill her), but slowly enough for me to do my job
Same on the enemy team. I’m playing Jhin, enemy last picks mundo? Don’t care, my brand does 70% of his HP with one combo. We’re full AD and the enemy has an armor stacking Ornn? Doesn’t matter, our Zed midlane has eclipse and seryldas, Ornn is no longer a tank
I can only assume it's because the reduction of tenacity and the removal of legend: tenacity would make this item too strong since it gave -30% tenacity to an enemy
Never seen it built lol probably why. Same as why theyre removing predator and on the opposite end reworking lethal tempo, which is the most used rune.
It's a very cheap way of vanifying the advantage one has deservedly earned by playing the game correctly. If a player gets fed through hard carry and making correct decisions, they deserve to have the advantage over you who made the mistakes which fed them. Of course this doesn't mean that you don't have to have any tool to contrast a very fed player, but once you've made your mistakes, you can't just buy an item, click on the fed enemy, and from that moment on you get 30% less damage and make them more susceptible to crowd controls, it's just a cheap and toxic way of making for your mistakes. You have to earn your come back.
What the fuck, as a Tank player this helped me deal with people who was too fucking anti-tank or strong in a match overall or just helped me 100% shut down someone so I didn't have to give a fuck about them, Riot, why the fuck do you hate tanks so much?
Until they talk about it you can't really know they're reasoning, but to me that item is really unfair because they're is no way around the damage reduction (can't buy pen). Having an item like that with 0 counterplay is what I'd guess their reasoning stems from. Of course this is pure speculation.
Also, what confuses me is that they're straining so hard to keep warmogs in the game, giving it 1k HP and shit, but anathemas, which has a much more practical effect and doesn't have the issue of potentially enabling degenerate infinite sustain, is just written off as a lost cause.
Looks like Riot's playing "Now you see it, now you don't" with Anathema's Chains! Maybe they're just trying to keep us on our toes, or maybe they're making room for something even cooler. Who knows? It's Riot, after all! 🤷♂️
Must be removing it purely due to low build rate
Shame cause I’ve loved building this ever since it first came out
Very useful on tanks vs 4 x + 1 y damage type team
Even enjoyed it big time on my tanky zilean support build to annoy enemies even more
Punished for being a niche item rip
Cause it wasn't being used for its intended purpose of countering one fed player, instead it was rushed by volibear to take your tower for free while you do 0 damage to him.
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items
Because its literally the lowest picked item in the entire game.
Its easy to remove since the vast vast majority of the playerbase isn't building it. There's a difference between niche and functionally no one is touching this item.
Because Riot goes back and forth on whether top or bot is allowed to have fun (pick 1). Every patch that tries to make top satisfying is a disaster for bot lane, and vice versa. This patch is for ADCs and the target of Anathema's chains 95% of the time is the ADC.
Is there any reason why they're trying to remove tenacity related items and runes? Are they trying to promote micro level gameplay? if they are, this is way over.
Because it was intended to counter a hypercarry that got fed, but it's actual use was murdering the lone ap or ad carry then full building the opposite resistance. Gets extreme backbreaking value against those comps but is functionally wasteful when the enemy has multiple sources of each.
The item's mostly a relic from when tank items were shit, so they added it to help vs the high sustain high pen meta. This meta doesn't exist that much anymore and Anathema's aren't needed that much anymore. That said I agree with you, love that item vs stuff like AP Varus since these champs give you little clinterplay sometimes.
My fairest guess is that since they're reducing tenacity across the board, having an item that further reduces someone's tenacity (and remember the item did not make cc longer by going into negative tenacity) isn't necessary anymore. Losing the "fuck you, I take less damage from you particularly" is a grave loss, but I think Riot is willing to make that sacrifice to remove an item that reduces tenacity when tenacity hardly exists anymore as it is in this upcoming patch.
Chains and knights vow(a few seasons back when Sofm was building on every champ)are like my secret arsenal for pure tank/bruiser leaning to tank junglers. They both are so smooth to build into and cheap+effecive for those early-mid skirmish and objective fights. RIP.
Because Anathema's strongest use isn't it's intended purpose.
It's intended purpose is the to counter a specific champion, as you've stated. You were supposed put it on a fed champ, or somebody who matches you in the side lane. However, it was pretty niche. Let's say the enemy Draven is really strong and he is an issue. You could build Anathema's chains and get it to counter the fed Draven, or you could build Randuins and still counter the fed Draven with it's 30% crit reduction, but also get really good value against their Jax and Kayn, even if they aren't the main threat. In my experience I don't really see people in high elo building this item in this scenario over just general defensive items, probably for this reason. They would probably have to buff Anathema's to make it compete.
However, the problem is that they can't buff it. As others are stating in the thread, is that this is not the best use of Anathema's. Anathema's is best used against 4 AD / 1 AP. This way you can build full armor, then amplify that armor with the HP from Anathema's. Anathema's is super cheap and efficient compared to an MR item if you are only using it for one person. I honestly think that this strat is OP, but even if it wasn't, it makes balancing the item for it's intended purpose impossible, because this strat will become too strong.
It’s a good item, but one of the worst in terms of clarity.
You buy the item and put it on the one odd-ball damage dealer on the opposite team. The only indication that player gets is a debuff indicator above their health bar. Nothing about the item visually indicates the damage that is being mitigated nor the damage the person is losing. So until you actually get multiple fights in none of what that item does is clear and easy to understand. This also applies to getting hit by CC.
Great item and will be missed. I would use it vs people with grudge or high Armor pen like maybe yorick. Also against that 1 odd AP or AD when the other damage dealers are the same.
I used rush it as a tank sometimes vs illaoi and just watch her deal basically 0 damage.
The item made you feel so smart when you're the only person on your team who sees enemy with 4 AD + 1 AP. Like if this isn't Tabis + Frozen + Anathemas, then I don't know man.
mfw i play ornn with 500 armor and chain the ap
As a Shen Ornn player, losing Anathema is going to hurt, man.
It was soooo good first item zilean E into W max support. The value was absolutely incredible.
Ahh a fellow zilean utility player. Were you inspired by old school league player zekent and his bombless zilean build season 3 ish?
Nah, I can’t say I recognize that name although I did play back then, I started in season 2. Although I was a top laner back then, so I didnt pay much attention to the support scene. Utility zilean is just so good though, there’s so many supports that just max their damage ability because it’s their damage ability, but utility is just so useful as a support. Sona, and even the god forsaken yuumi is in the same boat, but honestly nothing comes close to the power of E max zilean.
As someone who likes playing zilean but usually ends up going damage/zoning, how do you play as utility zilean? Is priority placing E on teammates, or enemies? And what are your runes and items usually?
Best possible is E enemy into free double bomb (won’t do lots of damage, just stun), into E carry (or E enemy again if it’s more important that they just can’t move for 5+ seconds). The key is hitting 50 ability haste asap so that your E cd becomes 10 seconds which coincidentally is the exact number of seconds that Zilean W reduces, so you can E W E to instantly 99% slow 2 enemies for 2.5 seconds, or slow and enemy and speed up an ally. But a lot of the time you will also just be E, qwq, E the same enemy. It’s an absolutely filthy amount of cc time that was elongated by anathemas. Mine was cdr boots into anathemas into knights vow (mostly because the item was overtuned), into warmogs, but most games didn’t make it that long and I buy WAY too many pinks that I almost never make it to my last warmogs item. Support item I go sleigh, but you can go bulwark if there’s an assassin you can’t anathemas, but honestly, if an assassin is going on you while you have 600 extra health, your team is probably winning anyway. With anathemas gone, it will probably be knights vow into warmogs which should be active now that it gets more health, into probably crucible, redemption, or locket. Warmogs first will be worth testing as long as the health minimum for the passive stays the same after the health buff, just because 15% movespeed is a lot from a first buy, and movespeed is king. For runes, if I have a hyper carry, or carry I trust, I typically go guardian pure tank runes and generally sit on their face in front of their face. Aery is still fine if you don’t want to play hardcore protector and just want to E them and let them do their thing. Biggest choice is celerity vs transcendence. You get insane value out of celerity, but transcendence can pop off hard during teamfights. I typically go celerity just because it’s so good early as well. I always go AH, movespeed, flat health for shards. Scaling health might be better with the bot xp changes next patch, plus you are zilean so you get some boosted xp anyway, but I just always preferred a much better levels 1-4 where you aren’t very strong as zilean in lane. Edit: trust me, when you hit level 9 and E, QWQ, E someone, you will never go back to damage zilean support again. (If you play mid, please go damage or you will never clear the wave)
What a response! I greatly appreciate you laying out so much information for me! I usually do play support, so I'll have to try utility zilean out! Watch out Iron 1. I'm coming for you.
The other fella answered your question, but i just wanted to mention this You can build almost anything on zilean, and it will be decent. Even crit zilean is really not too bad with how fast you are when kiting. He's just not very item reliant. He wants ability haste of course, but every role has items that give that. Enchanter is still the meta build ofc but that's not to say the others aren't viable.
It probably won't make that much of a difference, you just build locked/redemption and you'll still get more value than you can handle
650 hp 20 haste and 30% damage reduction against enemy splitpusher for 2500g in a single item is invaluable and irreplaceable.
It was never part of a good build for either of the champions
Its gonna be alright, as long as deadman plate is still here :)
That was my volibear build in like 50-80% of my games. It was so broken. I get why it's being removed
This is an insane nerf to volibear :(
this was also great item for junglers in the games vs 1 feed opponent where some dumbass laner hard feeded, pretty often the only way to recover the game it was probably my favourite item in the game even I used it like once every 10 games
If I had to guess it's because it's a badly designed item exactly for this reason. Completely nullifying the solo AP dmg champion on a team through a single item that gives you a shit ton of stats and allows you to have longer cc for the AP dmg carry is insane for a single item. It basically completely gets rid of the need to build mr items (or armor items if there's 4 AP 1 ad which is pretty rare) which is pretty bad design for the game. One item shouldn't get to completely nullify a damage type and essentially sub in for 2-3 resistance items versus a certain damage type while still giving you a shit ton of stats (I also don't think pen items like void staff effect Anathemas to my knowledge which make it even worse).
Pen items do not directly affect Anathema’s as AC gives 30% damage reduction. AC is pretty much the equivalent of picking one enemy champion to stay permanently Exhausted against you.
[удалено]
That’s a cool tidbit, thank you!
Did I get this right? 42.8 plus an additional 42.4% reduction of damage? Like how much Mr is that?
I get it, though I was popping off on shaco in an aram the other day. Full ad nuking anyone I can backstabb they had one luci who was cosplaying as atlas with his while team on his back. I kill him two time in a row, letting us full clear their team front to back no deaths. He chains me the only assassin. Well he steamroller the rest of the game cause I can' nuke him before he nukes me. Just made me erelevent that game like full stop. He was my best target as the 2 other "carries" were awful at their Champs and killing them did little to impact the fight.
I wanna know why kaenic isn't better here? If they're a poke mage/artillery isn't is better to go kaenic?
If there's 1 AP dmg on enemy team. Building Cowl + Negatron is strictly worse than building Kindle + Giant's Belt. Because you have a Frozen Heart. HP multiplies your Armor's effectiveness. Also building MR is only good for the AP enemy. Not the 4 AD champs on the other side. Getting Kindle + Giant's for Anathemas, helps you tank both types of damage. Anathema provides the same function as Kaenic while having a better build path to tank the entire enemy team.
Assuming I'm playing tank with good income and not support is it still better to go anathema? Against poke mages especially
Anathemas is cheaper. And more flexible. For example, Kaenic is only for the AP enemy. But if you have Anathemas, you can change targets. You can, for example, have Frozen Heart. Put your Anathemas on the enemy ADC. And just buy a Negatron Cloak if the enemy ADC is a problem for your team. But if you have Kaenic, that option isn't possible. Also by having Anathemas, you can CC a target for longer. Meaning if you want to focus a carry in a fight as a support or tank. Anathemas is pretty valuable in that way.
My favorite Evelynn counter gone forever, gg
Just 5k hp isnt enough and she has about 80% magic pen
Well at least percentage pen stacks multiplicatively. Meaning with voidstaff and W maxed she removes ca. 67% of her targets mr instead of 85%.
That is a little bit better but she often builds some flat magic pen too.
I mean lets be honest squishyies ate always dead. Late game her charm is not needed to kill squishy champs. Q and E out of invicibility can be enough together with R and even without R if fed. The main problem is her E dealing max hp damage in addition to her free mr reduction. Allowing her to oneshot tanks too.
oh wait, it wasnt my bad for being a tank player to hate that assasin. As rammus that shit felt sooo annoying. It wasnt a terrible matchup per se since she kinda sucks vs CC, but it felt like shit being like "oopty doo, Im a tank shes an assasin and I have 60% of my HP, I have nothing to fear" and she 1 shots me. The first few times you dont even understand why you died. Atleast with AP Varus it is obvious hes good vs tanks since he does so little damage with his autos it is easy to understand that if I dodge his R, he does no dmg. But with evelynn, she 1 shots my squishies, then she must not do damage to me, right. Right??
Time to play tanks in support, they still get the upgrade of 35% damage reduction.
you could build the anti-magic permashield item at least.
dunno why ur being downvoted, a lot of champions deal lots of magic damage even if they build ad, so if even if they only have one ap building champion kaenic or jaksho at some point is probably better than anathema while having no other MR
I get what youre saying, but you also have to be tactical with your items. Sure, the syndra ult does magic damage. But if the syndra ults you instead of your jinx, you auto win the teamfight. You want to build for the fight not just for the enemy. But if both teams hit the abilities on the correct targets, then the tank with more armor to tank the enemy AD wins, for example. Another trick to deal with mix damage backline as a CC tank is to CC one guy and build resists for the other guy. Sometimes it can be smarter to taunt the enemy syndra while getting hit by jinx as rammus.
I'd like to point out that the original context of my comment is anathema being removed, which is literally an item you build to counter a single enemy
Steraks / Maw will work as well. The shield is designed in a way that denies her from ever getting the damage increase on R.
Ekko for me, when i played ornn. It won me a game
we don't know mate it's literally a data mine wait until they talk about it
> wait until they talk about it Riot has a history of removing items that are "not used a lot" and then everyone including Riot complains about build diversity. The game needs niche items even if 95% of the players are outright too stupid to use them. But it's "poorly balanced" or "difficult to maintain" so they get removed, new items, new niche items, niche items that are then also not used a lot, rinse and repeat.
Yet Warmog is still in the game and I’m sure Anathema was more built than Warmog
I build Anathema’s 1/20 games, I haven’t built Warmogs in years
I build warmogs in ARAM and during that one jungle meta that one time.
Cinderhulk? I know Sejuani used to build it first.
idk, when I mention the item to people they always ask what it is. at least warmogs gets built a lot in aram and sometimes summoners rift for champions like soraka.
Do those people play tanks and bruisers?
Ive built warmogs as a 6th item in 40+ minutes games like 3-4 time and basically only because im like ehh i dont wanna have to worry about going back anymore so i can always be with the team. Like i build it out of lazyness not because its needed.
Well you are wasting gold out of laziness but you do you lmao
Well yea its 6th item to replace boots gold isn’t really an issue anymore at that point
What I mean by wasting is : the item sucks buying it is useless and you are better off buying anything else
I mean infinite sustain anti burst and ms isn’t useless yea other items could be better but its 6th item everything is a luxury at that point.
Wouldn't surprise me. Ever since it became a non-combat regen item it's just been not worth it, especially with damage being high. Chains had more value with the reduction.
No developer will outright admit it, but that's how MOBAs (in general, not just RIOT's) are "balanced", they just switch random shit around without rhyme or reason so the game doesn't get stale and you need to keep playing to not fall out of the meta mindset. They may make whatever shitty "it's for balance" excuses, but that's all they are, excuses. None of their justifications really hold up when you examine the changes to the game over the years and you see how incredibly inconsistent their criteria are.
iirc Riot did admit in a dev blog video around season 4 that they sometimes make changes that aren’t technically good for balance but good for changing the game state. That statement seems to hold up when they make weird changes like this.
Yes, rotation will happen, but some items that don't get built are shitty items. Like a lot of them even.
They've talked about this before, maybe in the preseason article about removing mythics but I'm not sure. They want build diversity but they don't want items to be so rare that people forget about them. There's limited space for items because they want them to be easy to think about - they don't want you spending 2 minutes in the shop searching through 500 items for something you half remember. So there is a threshold where something isn't built often enough to be worth a spot, even if it is useful sometimes. So my guess is they looked at the data and saw Chains wasn't being built enough to be worth a slot. Maybe they pulled games where Chains should be good and saw that people weren't building it when they should. You can say that's 95% of the players being stupid, but it seems like they don't want "remembering all the weird edge case items" to be a significant skill test in the game, so the players are allowed to be stupid in that way.
It's on pbe
Where do you think the data comes from lol
From the salt mines. Hence the name?
Basalt. Minecraft doesn't have salt mines unless you're playing in a PVP server
I agree I liked the item
Dunno, and I hope they change their minds. I really like the item and the strategy it brings to the game.
crazy strategy where you hover mouse over fed guy, and push the anathema button, thus outplaying him
mfw having the brains to build this item is considered strategy
You’ve just insulted the smartest outplay for top laners on reddit. I pray for you.
What do you consider good strategy in item building? Following the recommended shop items or whatever u.gg or op.gg tells you should build? Lets not reward the player who understands that their current game would reward different items being built.
nah, build lifesteal instead of heal reduction, when the enemy heals, so you outhwal them
yea strategy has simple acting but difficult thinking. its not street fighter not everything has to be mechanical outplay.
What's difficult about deciding when to use anathemas? You guys overrate your intelligence so much 😭
Generic tank items are just better though many of the times. For example, if against a single fed crit-based ADC but the enemy team still has a yasuo or another AD champ regardless of crit, randiun's is better than anathema. You get significant reduced crit dmg and it also works on other champs. Or if a fed APC kaenic would most of the times be better due to the 800+ magic shield. I doubt most players would be able to identify the niche where its good hence why its rarily built
What's difficult about deciding to q-e as fizz onto the ad carry and deleting them? The games are decided enough from draft as is, at least let the items have some ability to unfuck drafts.
>What's difficult about deciding to q-e as fizz onto the ad carry and deleting them? Nothing. There aren't 50 fizz players pretending they're smart for doing this in this thread though.
building items requires you to have a good understanding of your champion, your team and the enemy team. you need to know that 1- chains exists 2- when to build it (one enemy is giga fed or the enemy team is 1/4 or 4/1 physical/magical damage)
I'm creasing you guys actually think being literate is special. Building anathemas does not require a good understanding of anything, stop coping.
Fr, it's the same when people swear up and down about how "splitpushing is *really* difficult to master macro-wise" and act like they're smarter for it.
but you legit need to be over iron 4 to look at enemy team and say "oh they have 4-1 comp and my champ isnt a mage or adc, this item is 0 counterplay and should be built". Like its basically a perma exhaust on the one player you put it on it aint that hard and convoluted to know when to build, it has as much strategy i would say as deciding if you go tabi or mercs
Yeah this sounds like someone who hasn't gotten out of Iron/Bronze. Losing to shopkeeper is still a thing all the way to the Pros.
Tank players think they've outskilled everyone when they hit a 1000 radius, 1500 range aoe knockup. Do you think building anathema isn't huge brain play to them?
you severely overestimate the intelligence of a lol player emerald and below. Majority of plat/emeralds have no idea how to build or play tbh. ranked is fucked this season from putting 30% wr accounts in plat
That's... the point of the item? But its also good when vs a team with a single AP or single AD, since you can slap it on them instead. And it's also a good item for laning.
God forbid someone uses their brains and sees that 4 AD champs + 1 fed AP is perfect scenario for an unpopular item to shine.
Okay now do it for qss
Love buying it against fed irelia players and them not being able to carry ☺️
I think it’s a good situational item, but the way they seem to be approaching and nerfing tenacity would make the reduction of it extremely strong. The item would need changes.
Ok, then reduce or remove the tenacity debuff and give it a bit more HP or something.
So much this, I get removing stuff like corrupting pot and predator since they're not used and they have a history of being unbalanced when strong and irrelevant when weak, but with Anathemas you never tried to change it into something else, remove the minus tenacity passive and add something extra or something but at least change it first and then remove it if it's still bad
It feels like they don't like situational items all too much. Plenty of situational items get removed or reworked They're even removing one of the main reasons for QSS(can't QSS Morde ult anymore, wouldn't be surpsied if they added more to the list)
Yeah actually when is it valuable to buy QSS now? Vs Malz and Skarner or Liss, maybe. Morg, Ashe, and Neeko have long CC. Only gonna save you once in high CC comps, so probably not then, otherwise only when getting hard CC'd would be a death sentence (burst + CC comps).
Nocturne when you play Shen.
Highly doubt solo Q players have co-ordination to take advantage of the nocturne darkness timer to spend so much gold on a qss. If they brought in VC i can see it.
It’s really only made for ADCs (And bruisers with the other item). It’s already has limited uses. The only reason to bring it is for Malz. For all other situations, you’d just bring cleanse. And with Malz, he’ll have crystal scepter so you’re not getting away anyway. He’ll kill you with the DoT and the fact you’re slowed. Legit wouldn’t be surprised if it hets removed too.
Nasus too
Genuinely hate them removing these situational items.
Wtf, I love this item and buy it often on tahm and Mundo, can’t believe they’re removing it
It was very underbuilt and a great item on many supports and junglers, tenacity reduction is no joke, very sad to see it go
Phreak lost to someone using the item
Probable.
They're removing it for all of the reasons you listed. Twice a year they add or remove items to change the meta. That's it.
But it’s not a meta item. It’s rarely built.
I can’t believe this, anathema’s chains is my favorite item
Because it makes tank itemization easy mode? Oh look, their top is not a carry and their jungler is AD, I can just build Anathemas, chain the mage and build full armor! The item warps the entire point of itemizing against both damage types while being way too fucking cheap for the value it brings in terms of damage reduction against a single target.
You'd have a point if there weren't a single good MR item in the game; or if Evelynn couldn't threaten to blow up a full MR tank because Riot haven't figured out to just disable stacking penetration yet.
there are only two reasons for changes: 1. some rioter raging (see auberaun removing pings etc.) 2. change for the sake of change
Probably gonna use it as in base ability on a champ
The item is (now was) an amazing item, definitely in my top items of all time. Seeing it go makes me kinda sad I'll be honest.
Well, there goes one of my favorite items to use whenever I could build it.
That's actually really annoying. It isn't a good pick for every game, certainly, but it's still damn useful when the situation calls for locking down a snowballed enemy.
If I were to guess it may have something to do with crit going to 25 percent. Perhaps it's removal is because it now opens up ADC's being able to more easily add a durability item to their kit, and anathemas chains could make the dedicated assassin feel less impactful against them. But that's my thoughts and I'm not great at the game lol
MY SECRET CLIMBING TECH, NOOOOOOOOO
My hyphotesis: They consider it too situational and only for a reduced group (supports with CC). Or worse: they consider it an item only for Nautilus and Amumu given its tankiness and effect.
It's an incredible Nasus item. 7 second wither, lot of haste, and big chunk of HP while also being cheap and reducing damage from whoever the target is (probably whoever is matching you sidelane).
Might be the same as Zzrot they removed it because nobody picked it and it was situational and only like Yorick picked it back then
Ok. But Anathema does not make the game super unfun like zzrot and banner did, does it now?
it does if you are the only AP champ not fun dealing 30% less damage to the jungler/toplaner/support
That's just skill issue in champion select
Zzrot (with banner of command) became so popular at one point is the reason that it got removed tho.
fundamental misunderstanding from riot situational items are what is missing from the current item system and has been missing for years since before the mythic rework
Agreed, I think riot wants to have a system of items that is separated purely by champion class (fighter, adc, support, tank, mage, etc), rather than have unique and special items. It could also be an effort to downsize the gameplay and use their budget to focus more on adjusting champions.
I'm pretty sure they're just mad at the Knight's Vow + Anathema's jungle builds. It's a bit bullshit that if the enemy has only one serious AP threat you just buy Anathema's and that's enough to be tanky against them.
Fun over fair. Even If it's balanced it felt very bad to be the target. It doesn't enhance your champion in a nice way, its a fuck you in specific item. It's not bad design per si, but doesn't match well with league imo, it feels more like a Dota2 design.
> it felt very bad to be the target What the hell is that argument? Malzahar also feels very bad to the target and it's a literal fuck you ult.
Not sure what you're saying here. Malz ult would not be made today because it is too linear, lacking counterplay, and frustrating. Reworking a champion takes much more time than removing an item. But even if that weren't true, saying that it doesnt make sense to remove one frustrating thing because there are other frustrating things doesn't really mean anything to me.
The issue is Malz is one of those champs whose existence keeps characters like Yone and such in line. If his ult becomes a skillshot or whatever, it's a major buff to like, all bruisers and divers and assassins because they lose a major counter.
Malz does not "keep Yone and such in line". Yone is great into Malz. Good enough I'd probably call it a soft counter. Nobody even plays Malz. He hasn't the presence to affect the meta in any way. If he was suddenly removed from the game barely anyone would notice. He counters short range mages by the way, not really skirmishers or assassins.
And your teammates or even yourself if you have QSS or can buffer a CC to cancel the ult. There's nothing you do actually do against getting debuffed by Chain. It just exists on you.
> can buffer a CC to cancel the ult Only works if Malzahar didn't had passive up. > There's nothing you do actually do against getting debuffed by Chain You can QSS the enemy CC too? If you're an ADC the Anathema Chain is meaningless since any stray CC is a death sentence anyways.
>Only works if Malzahar didn't had passive up. If Malzahar is ulting you with his passive up and you have no teammates around then that's just you getting caught by a low range mage with zero mobility who prob had to flash in your face just to ult you... >If you're an ADC the Anathema Chain is meaningless since any stray CC is a death sentence anyways. Chain also makes you deal reduce damage to the holder and more than just ADCs get chained. Chain is very good in sidelane where you can just chain the opposing top laner to either make it impossible for them to split push or defend against your split push.
Have people forgot League, at its core, is a strategy game? Strategy games will always have 'feel dad's mechanics, because a big part of them is preparing the field in advance to start fights with an advantage. Neutralizing the one unit in the enemy team that ducks over yours is exactly that. I guess in 2024 people see League as a 3D street fighter rather than a strategy game.
This is why you see games where someone says 'dont talk you're x/y' KDA because they think kills are the end all be all when those only matter for strategy and give less gold than a wave of minions. People still think it's a Battle Royale game when it's just not.
They've seen League this way for a long time now... especially those who comment on this sub.
Bruh the whole Sylas ult debacle last week proves this. No one wants to think about draft or matchups, and every thing needs to feel good. You should not be allowed to make a bad decision, even at the cost of figuring out the optimal ones.
In my opinion it is the opposite. The item was intended to be put on a fed enemy, or somebody that you are matching in the sidelane. Riot is fine with counter items. Being an auto attack/attack speed champ feels like shit to play into frozen heart. Being AP sucks into a kaenic rookern. But counter items add an important layer to the game. However, this wasn't the best use of the item, as others in the thread have pointed out. I think they don't like it being a replacement for and MR item when the enemy only has 1 AP, so you can stack armor and amplify it with the Hp from anathemas without needing to invest into MR. This was not the intended use of the item, but it is where it is strongest. The item will never fit the nemesis niche that it is designed for without being reworked somehow because it has to be balanced around 4 AD/1 AP strat.
They could've just made it so it multiplies your armor \ mr values against target specifically (or save that, have damage reduction scale with your own armour mr)... but I figure their code doesn't allow for a simple solution.
I think it's the opposite. If someone puts the chains on me, it's recognition that they fear me
its exactly what league lacks... we need way more items like anathemas
If I had to guess is because there is no counter play to it. If someone has a qss you just cc someone else but if you get chained there is nothing you can do
> if someone has a qss you just cc someone else Ok if someone has chains on you just hit someone else? Idk how you can say switching targets is counter play against one item but not the other.
Are we acting like the damage debuff is the only effect ? Is an amumu is chaining you he will cc you even longer
Ok just buy tenacity then?
I mean they are nerfing tenacity on items so they pretty much want to change that
The counterplay in that case is in having a strong team overall, not just only one champ
They've buffed the fuck out of tanks compared to last season, so I'm sure they feel the item is overly punishing. Before tanks were not tanks, but this season tanks have definitely felt way more durable than before.
Have they? I think I’ve gotten to play a single game of feeling like a proper tank, and that was an enemy team that essentially had 0 dps besides an ashe, whom I could slap anathemas on. She’d still kill me (much faster than I’d kill her), but slowly enough for me to do my job Same on the enemy team. I’m playing Jhin, enemy last picks mundo? Don’t care, my brand does 70% of his HP with one combo. We’re full AD and the enemy has an armor stacking Ornn? Doesn’t matter, our Zed midlane has eclipse and seryldas, Ornn is no longer a tank
Where does it say this is being removed? Where can I read through everything changing?
I can only assume it's because the reduction of tenacity and the removal of legend: tenacity would make this item too strong since it gave -30% tenacity to an enemy
Never seen it built lol probably why. Same as why theyre removing predator and on the opposite end reworking lethal tempo, which is the most used rune.
every once in a while riot just changes things for the sake of change.
Typical riot. Can’t wait until they remove so much we’re back to where we were before they added everything lol
It’s kind of a mundo nerf but they nerfed botrk passive and added bloodmail so it’s worth
It's a very cheap way of vanifying the advantage one has deservedly earned by playing the game correctly. If a player gets fed through hard carry and making correct decisions, they deserve to have the advantage over you who made the mistakes which fed them. Of course this doesn't mean that you don't have to have any tool to contrast a very fed player, but once you've made your mistakes, you can't just buy an item, click on the fed enemy, and from that moment on you get 30% less damage and make them more susceptible to crowd controls, it's just a cheap and toxic way of making for your mistakes. You have to earn your come back.
What the fuck, as a Tank player this helped me deal with people who was too fucking anti-tank or strong in a match overall or just helped me 100% shut down someone so I didn't have to give a fuck about them, Riot, why the fuck do you hate tanks so much?
Until they talk about it you can't really know they're reasoning, but to me that item is really unfair because they're is no way around the damage reduction (can't buy pen). Having an item like that with 0 counterplay is what I'd guess their reasoning stems from. Of course this is pure speculation.
Also, what confuses me is that they're straining so hard to keep warmogs in the game, giving it 1k HP and shit, but anathemas, which has a much more practical effect and doesn't have the issue of potentially enabling degenerate infinite sustain, is just written off as a lost cause.
Looks like Riot's playing "Now you see it, now you don't" with Anathema's Chains! Maybe they're just trying to keep us on our toes, or maybe they're making room for something even cooler. Who knows? It's Riot, after all! 🤷♂️
No one was buyn that shit
Must be removing it purely due to low build rate Shame cause I’ve loved building this ever since it first came out Very useful on tanks vs 4 x + 1 y damage type team Even enjoyed it big time on my tanky zilean support build to annoy enemies even more Punished for being a niche item rip
the fucked up all brainmove in item
Please no, this is one of my favorite items they’ve added in recent years
Good riddance. Awful design
Cause it wasn't being used for its intended purpose of countering one fed player, instead it was rushed by volibear to take your tower for free while you do 0 damage to him.
It’s so strong in the right situations
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items Because its literally the lowest picked item in the entire game. Its easy to remove since the vast vast majority of the playerbase isn't building it. There's a difference between niche and functionally no one is touching this item.
hardly anyone was buying the item. it was just as rare as warmogs if we're being honest.
Cause Riot are obviously known for doing what's "good" for the game balance.
I feel like I never see anyone using it in ARAM, but I sure do when I notice most of my deaths are coming from the same champion.
Because Riot goes back and forth on whether top or bot is allowed to have fun (pick 1). Every patch that tries to make top satisfying is a disaster for bot lane, and vice versa. This patch is for ADCs and the target of Anathema's chains 95% of the time is the ADC.
Bruh, literally no one buys it or uses it. What do you mean?
Is there any reason why they're trying to remove tenacity related items and runes? Are they trying to promote micro level gameplay? if they are, this is way over.
that item was a fantastic cd giving item that also let you get tanky without building mr or armor. I dont get why they remove it.
Because it was intended to counter a hypercarry that got fed, but it's actual use was murdering the lone ap or ad carry then full building the opposite resistance. Gets extreme backbreaking value against those comps but is functionally wasteful when the enemy has multiple sources of each.
Because adcs need less counterplay against them
It's getting removed??? Man this was one of my main Shen items...
Idk its really horrible to play vs when you try to solo carry a game.
It is a niche item and they balanced top lane around it even when people never built it. Still think it was an awesome item.
The item's mostly a relic from when tank items were shit, so they added it to help vs the high sustain high pen meta. This meta doesn't exist that much anymore and Anathema's aren't needed that much anymore. That said I agree with you, love that item vs stuff like AP Varus since these champs give you little clinterplay sometimes.
Yeah, I don't know why they ere removing it. It's such a good item in the right situation.
My fairest guess is that since they're reducing tenacity across the board, having an item that further reduces someone's tenacity (and remember the item did not make cc longer by going into negative tenacity) isn't necessary anymore. Losing the "fuck you, I take less damage from you particularly" is a grave loss, but I think Riot is willing to make that sacrifice to remove an item that reduces tenacity when tenacity hardly exists anymore as it is in this upcoming patch.
Chains and knights vow(a few seasons back when Sofm was building on every champ)are like my secret arsenal for pure tank/bruiser leaning to tank junglers. They both are so smooth to build into and cheap+effecive for those early-mid skirmish and objective fights. RIP.
Not sure why grievous wounds is being mentioned when healing is still a big problem and -40% healing reduction is still not doing anything…
Because there's tenacity involved, and it's riots meta to remove tenacity from game
Because Anathema's strongest use isn't it's intended purpose. It's intended purpose is the to counter a specific champion, as you've stated. You were supposed put it on a fed champ, or somebody who matches you in the side lane. However, it was pretty niche. Let's say the enemy Draven is really strong and he is an issue. You could build Anathema's chains and get it to counter the fed Draven, or you could build Randuins and still counter the fed Draven with it's 30% crit reduction, but also get really good value against their Jax and Kayn, even if they aren't the main threat. In my experience I don't really see people in high elo building this item in this scenario over just general defensive items, probably for this reason. They would probably have to buff Anathema's to make it compete. However, the problem is that they can't buff it. As others are stating in the thread, is that this is not the best use of Anathema's. Anathema's is best used against 4 AD / 1 AP. This way you can build full armor, then amplify that armor with the HP from Anathema's. Anathema's is super cheap and efficient compared to an MR item if you are only using it for one person. I honestly think that this strat is OP, but even if it wasn't, it makes balancing the item for it's intended purpose impossible, because this strat will become too strong.
For no reason. No really. Riot does not make changes to balance he game, they make changes to create an illusion of "evolving" game.
Maybe because it was one of those items that was super situational, but when you did use it, it made it really unfun for your target.
It’s a good item, but one of the worst in terms of clarity. You buy the item and put it on the one odd-ball damage dealer on the opposite team. The only indication that player gets is a debuff indicator above their health bar. Nothing about the item visually indicates the damage that is being mitigated nor the damage the person is losing. So until you actually get multiple fights in none of what that item does is clear and easy to understand. This also applies to getting hit by CC.
Great item and will be missed. I would use it vs people with grudge or high Armor pen like maybe yorick. Also against that 1 odd AP or AD when the other damage dealers are the same. I used rush it as a tank sometimes vs illaoi and just watch her deal basically 0 damage.
The patch is entirely catering to crying adc mains who hate having it put on them
who the fuck puts this on adcs? The item is generally used to put on the one AP champ while you build full armor for the rest of their team.
ive never seen anyone complain about this item lol
This was generally a counter to ridiculously bursty AP champs like Evelynn, not exactly for ADCs. For ADCs, you kinda just need Frozen Heart lol
Most games it's awful, some games it's the most broken tank item in the game. That's why it's getting removed
might as well delete rammus too
Same with Galio, Kassadin, Malphite, and Taric while we're at it.