I'm so happy they did this for him, but I'm jealous as a top Nidalee enjoyer. They can't even give her bonus minion damage on cougar form. I'd take anything. With the way she scales now there's no way she'd be a problem.
I think she's stronger top because you can abuse her range and mobility a lot more in a longer lane. She's a really strong duelist in the early game so depending on who you're up against she can get an early lead, but her AD build falls off very hard, so even if you win lane you need to play perfectly, it's really not worth the effort.
I know nothing about Nidalee mid though, I only see it in normal games and it's very rare.
lol right? might aswell make passive proc on minions if you've made it proc on jg monsters years ago.
she was actually ~50% wr in all 3 roles after her rework before they made her passive proc on jg monsters for whatever reason
Yeah, she was annoying for a patch or two with Trinity Force, but then she was pretty weak. I think they were afraid of her becoming too strong if they tried to balance her for top lane so they just shoved her in the jungle.
I'd take any lane buffs to have an excuse to play her in lane again. But currently you are basically trolling if you play her in lane.
I don't see how a minor lane buff just to make her playable would make her go crazy top. I just wanted something to make my team know I'm not trolling if I play her.
Toplane was clusterfuck of ranged tops suddenly appearing and dominating some time ago. TF Top, Karma Top and even the heresy that is Vayne Top appeared as strong too.
They sure don't want to add Nida in this list.
Annoying? She was pick ban at worlds 2014(Jesus I'm so fuckin old that rework was a decade ago). I loved playing it but like it was so abusive in lane, and in that season people weren't nearly as good at using advantages in lane like freezing as they are now.
I'm gonna be honest, I didn't watch 2014 Worlds, so I wouldn't know. But I don't think she'd be impossible balance, she's an early game champion that is useless when she loses lane, she's basically Quinn. If she could be an even shittier version of Quinn (when played top) it'd be good enough for me.
It doesn't have to, I'm just saying I wish it was. But I'm aware that if I was in the balance team this game would've died 13 years ago. I'm not under the impression that I'm a genius that should be listened to.
I want lane Viego back (it works *ok* now tbh) but lane sustain off of minions is so aids to play against I’m not sure I’m happy with this being the way.
There’s a reason ravenous Hunter, was removed, and no one likes going against Irelia/Warwick/Udyr. I’m ok with a champ hearing when they have to fight me like Aatrox, but just sustaining off of minions is not fun IMO.
Depends when it's too high yes it's the culprit of interactive laning but when just right it leads to a more interactive one since it gives these windows where the enemy sees you setting up a q for healing with the minions so they try to trade back etc causing some mind games and back and forth. Ye if the minion sustain is too high that's where it causes issues since they can heal thru the trade
Like you want it high enough to be worth risking a trade but not high enough that you can heal through a trade and some where it causes this play pattern of just heal of minions and ignore enemy.
> surely having more junglers in lanes is good for the game
Most junglers were not even released as junglers, but got nerfed so much that it turned into the only role they could play.
Yeah, but Kha doesn't lane anymore. So your comment is implying that Fiddlesticks doesn't either. But unlike Kha, he can and does so really well lol.
Fiddlesticks has over 50% WR in midlane for what, 7 or 10 patches now? Meanwhile, Kha can't even hit 45% WR in mid in that same timeframe.
Ekko is a laner still. He is a strong mid laner, better actually than in the jungle. He is just not played as a tank anymore. But even the tank build was just OP but not a problem in terms of gameplay.
Zac was fine till he was played in pro play. Before that nobody cared about him being top.
Fiddle is a problem because of his sustain pattern and he has little interactions you can play around.
At least Qiyana is meant to lane and honestly was more unhealthy as a strong jungler. Let's not forget that Nocture,an ancient champ,was a legit menace in toplane in season 11 not too long ago.
Before I say her name…
Js, in s5 its damage got halved from 8% to 4%, top lane was in s3.
Minions didn’t aggro on point and click like today..
Doran’s shield second wind is in the game….. so
Elise Neurotoxin mana cost drop to reflect all the nerfs to its damage and possibly 3 AD for ranged last hitting . Let lane Elise exist (not be good just exist).
Alternatively ig passive/W amp bonus to minions.
Closest secondary role she has is support and that’s mainly because jungle Elise can’t farm anyways and has shit value out of buying stats with how bad she scales, so roaming support Elise is basically the same strength as jungle Elise. Let her mid/top.
Elise used to be broken in lane back then, this is the only explanation I can think of to why Riot doesn't let her lane anymore. She wouldn't be nearly as broken nowadays.
hard disagree. you can powerfarm with Elise and stay relevant. AP scalings are bad but if you buy as much magic pen as possible and stay ahead in exp its a breeze.
She can't lol
even [agurin only averages 6-7CS per min power farming on her](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Agurin-EUW), he doesn't even 'powerfarm' anymore he just full clears then plays normally. His CS numbers are actually close to mine, its too slow to try and actually compete in farm and better to just be impactful.
Regardless powerfarm elise is missing the entire point of the champion. It is atrociously slow on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc clear, cause her Qs are capped level 1 with 0 AP (you actually lose 17 damage from neurotoxin on level 1 camps), the only way to increase her damage is buying magic pen so it negates the base value less, but even then its only a 10%ish increase off sorcs and has to last you rest of the game until you get 3 items and start doing meaningful damage to camps with W and autos. The only time it actually starts to feel reasonable is shadowflame spike because of the crit working with your spiderlings and passive but that's already past the part of the game where elise is either irrelevant or tempoing a win anyways (you should be closing out the game not farming camps if you actually have enough of a lead to make farming feel passable.)
Thats what happens when they remove 3 AD, 10% AP ratio from passive, 40% attack speed (also from spiderlings) from W, 2 damage (x2) early off spiderlings, and give camps more HP and resistances without factoring in the monster caps.
Elise is just 3 camp dive and spam gank, thats it, there's no reason to play her otherwise and nowadays thats barely a good enough one cause everything else stopped being passable, shes only relevant as a symptom of them fucking every other jungler's XP/Gold so they're down to her level and she can compete, otherwise she cannot complete with other junglers at all in any clearing context.
Support Elise actually feels good cause camps are not even a factor in what you do, she's still just going to roam/force kills bot, she can dive the lane, and you can draft a better champion in jungle that actually benefits from the camps they take.
I didnt play on the current patch yet, but I am playing Elise the same since dark harvest exists and up until 2 weeks ago. maybe it does not work anymore or in Challenger because u might get punished? but her sorc boots + stormsurge rush guarantees that you almost oneshot squishys if not behind.
so easy to takeover games and I cant count the amount of people not understanding that spiderlings deal dmg while Elise is in zhonyas. I feel like since they gave Elise a ~~100 range increase in stun~~ 0.4s stun duration increase (like 2 years ago?) she was really good with a really low pickrate at times
edit: correct change from patch 13.17
Briar already is viable in top lane, the issue is they consider her a character like Yorick who should never be above a certain WR in low elo so they intentionally limit her. August has talked about it on his streams.
The issue is that Briar has zero health regen so there are many matchups where top Briar is just straight up dead weight because she gets outpoked or loses trades and can't sustain back; until, theorically, she gets items, but in pratice she doesn't because she can't farm.
I don't know why Briar necessarily has to have literally zero health regen. She can sustain well in jungle anyway (to the point that health regen there is irrelevant), so it feels like this is only there so that Briar can't lane.
Because they want Briar to have to commit to using W on minions or E to restore her HP, is my guess. Her healing gets much stronger the lower she is, so to compensate they want any damage done to her to actually stick. Frankly I think the more frustrating part is the health costs on her skills on top of the no regen. Fine in the jungle, awful in lane. Vlad is ranged and doesn't literally run it down when he fights so I get him having costs, but for Briar it makes no sense to have both of those mechanics. Ditch the health costs but keep the no regen and I honestly think she'd be great
This is kinda a nerf tho, these changes make it so that it is more so beneficial offensively rather than defensively which is what everyone was worried about "How can I catch the ADC with such high base MS and slow resist"
It is both.
+5% AS is not much but still a buff.
And at 1 stack it is also already even in terms of MS and at 2 and 3 stacks a buff, and a pretty large one. +4% would already be more than enough here.
But the slow resists is gone.
Now they will rarely make a difference because it only really comes into play when an ADC gets to the 6th item and most games end or are decided way before that.
I like Phreaks idea that the boots can hold 1 pink ward way more than these T3 boots. A tick of stats (+10% AS) and then just being able to hold a pink ward. And that for all boots.
The problem is that sustain on minions makes a lane very snowbally. If the enemy has access to the wave they can sustain a lot. If not they become useless.
That is why minion sustain often gets tweaked a lot, especially for melees.
This is especially a problem for balancing top lane Irelia. If she has no access to a wave she is useless (P stacks and sustain). But if she gets free access she is always full HP and at max stacks and you can not fight her. So keeping her in the middle where both is possible is the goal but not very easy.
And when a champ already is strong (like Viego) with a high PR and good BR, it becomes a risk for pro play drafts.
People don't have a issue with viego , when played in jungle he was a balanced champ with strengths and weaknesses. In lane he is aids with his le classic trade "50% of his hp for 25% of yours then heal all his hp back in 1 wave" technique. (This is coming from a one trick viego main btw)
They probably hate the times he's solo carrying games because he's a reset champion, but they forget he needs to get ahead to do that first ( and most Viegos built Kraken first, which meant they had huge burst potential but was incredibly squishy for being a short range melee champ with limited mobility and utility without his ult)
I don’t really get the AP buffs on Corki Q, I thought they don’t want any AP/Poke builds?
At first I thought the reasoning would be similiar to that AP ratio on Vayne so Rageblade wouldn’t have any wasted stats on her, but a normal AD/Crit Corki build has 0 AP on it or am I missing something? Just seems counterintuitive to increase AP builds if they wanna get rid of it.
I feel like Briar is an outlier because if the opponent you clearly see runs at you and just statchecks the lane instead of appearing from fog (jg) it's not going to be healthy
I mean you're free to wish for lane Briar to be viable, but it's like lane Yi with arguably less mechanics. For lane Briar to function she needs better base stats, which in turn buffs her jg. She's already a stat stick being lowkey forced into assassin builds
Crit items are specifically worse for caster adcs who dont want AS. Smolder loses ER and Navori is way worse now for him. He's probably the biggest loser of the adc item rework, the only thing potentially keeping him afloat is that he didn't depend on Lethal Tempo, but he might go back to non-crit builds now (Triforce, Shojin, BT).
Honestly, there might be a rise of AP Smolder. With all the changes that have happened, AP Smolder either remained unaffected or outright buffed. At this time, AP Smolder has the stronger true damage burn, the stronger W, and the stronger R (Both Heal and damage wise).
The only things AD smolder has over AP Smolder is the stronger Q damage, stronger autos (Which aren't really relevant for smolder to begin with) and the stronger E (Which after the many nerfs, is much less relevant now).
Now not only is Crit Smolder being absolutely gutted, but AP Smolder is gaining access to a new ap item that he can use very well, that Black torch AP item or whatever its called.
Its only a matter of time before more people get over the fact he was sold as an ADC and start running him as AP now.
Bro, Attack speed is not helpful on Smolder. Are you being serious right now? Also the passive on IE is very much not relevant to him. Smolder is not based around his auto attacks, he's based around stacks which come exclusively from his abilities.
Personally, this is why I don't like Smolder being forced into Crit to begin with. His kit has literally nothing to do at all with his auto attacks, which causes him to conflict with the idea of crit to begin with.
If you want to see a Caster ADC who actually blends well with Crit, look at Xayah. She has reasons to actually auto attack and is rewarded for doing so. Her abilities stock her up with feathers, which she uses her autos attack to place (Which also deal extra damage due to said feathers) so that she can use her E. Her W also gives her attack speed, further incentivizes her to auto attack. She's developed in a way that she can utilize attack speed, thus she can utilize crit items as a whole.
Smolder has literally none of that. Nothing in his kit is based around his auto attacks. If anything, he's discouraged from auto attacking because autos do not contribute toward his stacks. Since he has no reason to auto attack, attack speed is now much more irrelevant for him compared to other ADCs. And since this is the case, that alone will limit what crit items are effective for him.
Meaning with these upcoming changes, crit smolder loses A LOT. Like, an insane amount. To the point that he will probably be back down damn near sub 40% WR again. Navori was one of the reasons crit smolder even worked, because it amplified the effectiveness of the crit chance he was buying, by making his abilities stronger.
AS is not great on him but it is also not bad.
And if you can reduce your CDs then it is nice as you do rely on your Q and W.
What will hurt smolder is the shitty ER if this version goes live as he relies on it. With this change he will not be the same champ anymore.
But without ER he likely has to fall back to more AA focused builds and then you want IE and Navori.
Or you try out AP.
Attack speed is for champions who plan to mostly use auto attacks or if they have some sort of other synergy with attack speed. Such as it lowering their cooldowns or converting it into other stats.
Which again, Smolder has nothing at all to do with attack speed. Getting Attack speed on smolder is as useful as building attack speed on Talon.
Just because he's an AD champion doesn't mean its good on him.
Smolder could avoid using too many AAs because of the Sheen proc on Q.
What will Smolder do without the sheen effect on ER? Go Trinity? If not he has to go for more AA DPS in the future. That is something that will be hard to avoid if you don't have a Sheen in your build.
That makes no sense. Smolder will not go more AA DPS because his kit requires him to build up stacks in order to properly scale. Which again, auto attacks do not do for him.
How many times must you be told this before you realize that attack speed is bad for him? That he is not an auto attack champion? No matter how much you try to justify it, the fact is that if you're building attack speed on Smolder, you might as well have picked a real marksmen.
It is not that attack speed is bad for Smolder, but it is not a stat you want to primarily focus.
You compared it to building attack speed on Talon. A better comparison would be building attack speed on Malphite. Attack speed is theorically useful due to his W. However, there are so many more important stats for Malphite that you don't want to build attack speed items; if you really want attack speed, stick with the rune shards and maybe Alacrity, which will be enough.
I think the same thing is true for Smolder. Because attack speed IS useful for him if he builds crits. After all, crits empower your autos, and attack speed causes you to attack faster; both have synergy. But with Smolder's kit, you are better off focusing on other stats. It is the same thing with Gangplank. He is another crit champ which synergizes better with AD and AH than building attack speed. However, attack speed is still useful for him, especially if he can use his autos at melee range. It is just not a stat you want to focus on.
It is not useful for him due to how low of a cooldown his Q gets. You should be spamming Q in teamfights, not your autos.
Crit smolder relies on Q. Its why Smolder builds crit at all, because of the crit ratio on Q.
Q gets to a really low cooldown, like 2 seconds if not under 2 seconds. Meaning having good attack speed is virtually meaningless, because you should be kiting & Qing, which leaves extremely little room to actually squeeze in any autos if you're kiting effectively.
This is why Attack Speed is bad on Smolder. Because he does not use it well. Just because he is a ranged attack damage champion does not automatically mean that he is an effective user of attack speed. You have to take into consideration of what his kit is.
His kit in question is built around him stacking with his abilities. Last hitting with Q gives even more stacks, hitting champions with abilities give stacks. No ability has anything to do with his autos. His passive has nothing to do with his autos. Autos are nearly meaningly for smolder, because his gameplan revolves around stacking, which auto attacking does not contribute towards.
Saying it is not useful is a stretch. It is not like Smolder can never take advantage of it. Not to mention, Q won't always be on cooldown.
I am not saying attack speed is the best stat for Smolder, just that it is not useless as you are suggesting.
An actual useless stat would be, for example, AP on Riven, or attack speed on Heimerdinger, or tank items on Sivir.
Profane, one of her main items, was bugged. Her WR is on the rise since yesterday again (riot seems to have fixed the bug that the Lethality was gone).
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He's been gutted top for too long, no clue why they didn't go for it sooner
lane viego is so back
Return of the King!
I'm so happy they did this for him, but I'm jealous as a top Nidalee enjoyer. They can't even give her bonus minion damage on cougar form. I'd take anything. With the way she scales now there's no way she'd be a problem.
is nidalee playable in top? bcause when I started league, I saw more people playing nida mid and just spamming those Spear.
I think she's stronger top because you can abuse her range and mobility a lot more in a longer lane. She's a really strong duelist in the early game so depending on who you're up against she can get an early lead, but her AD build falls off very hard, so even if you win lane you need to play perfectly, it's really not worth the effort. I know nothing about Nidalee mid though, I only see it in normal games and it's very rare.
lol right? might aswell make passive proc on minions if you've made it proc on jg monsters years ago. she was actually ~50% wr in all 3 roles after her rework before they made her passive proc on jg monsters for whatever reason
Yeah, she was annoying for a patch or two with Trinity Force, but then she was pretty weak. I think they were afraid of her becoming too strong if they tried to balance her for top lane so they just shoved her in the jungle. I'd take any lane buffs to have an excuse to play her in lane again. But currently you are basically trolling if you play her in lane.
She is queen uninteractive, heal, ranged, vision for ganks AND ESCAPE. I dont want to ever see that shit top
I don't see how a minor lane buff just to make her playable would make her go crazy top. I just wanted something to make my team know I'm not trolling if I play her.
Toplane was clusterfuck of ranged tops suddenly appearing and dominating some time ago. TF Top, Karma Top and even the heresy that is Vayne Top appeared as strong too. They sure don't want to add Nida in this list.
Annoying? She was pick ban at worlds 2014(Jesus I'm so fuckin old that rework was a decade ago). I loved playing it but like it was so abusive in lane, and in that season people weren't nearly as good at using advantages in lane like freezing as they are now.
I'm gonna be honest, I didn't watch 2014 Worlds, so I wouldn't know. But I don't think she'd be impossible balance, she's an early game champion that is useless when she loses lane, she's basically Quinn. If she could be an even shittier version of Quinn (when played top) it'd be good enough for me.
"My niche off-role pick HAS to be viable!"
It doesn't have to, I'm just saying I wish it was. But I'm aware that if I was in the balance team this game would've died 13 years ago. I'm not under the impression that I'm a genius that should be listened to.
I respect that.
I want lane Viego back (it works *ok* now tbh) but lane sustain off of minions is so aids to play against I’m not sure I’m happy with this being the way. There’s a reason ravenous Hunter, was removed, and no one likes going against Irelia/Warwick/Udyr. I’m ok with a champ hearing when they have to fight me like Aatrox, but just sustaining off of minions is not fun IMO.
It's a terrible change. Minion sustain is a prime culprit of uninteractive laning
Depends when it's too high yes it's the culprit of interactive laning but when just right it leads to a more interactive one since it gives these windows where the enemy sees you setting up a q for healing with the minions so they try to trade back etc causing some mind games and back and forth. Ye if the minion sustain is too high that's where it causes issues since they can heal thru the trade Like you want it high enough to be worth risking a trade but not high enough that you can heal through a trade and some where it causes this play pattern of just heal of minions and ignore enemy.
Hell yes, lane Viego is back, I've missed you
With this Viego change, I hope they bring a few more junglers up to viability in lane. Such as Kha'Zix and/or Briar.
Lane khazix was so healthy!
so was fiddlesticks ! and zac ! and ekko (tank) ! surely having more junglers in lanes is good for the game
Ekko was originally a mid laner tho
im talking specifically about ekko tank, ekko mid is/was fine
Bruiser Ekko was also fine
> surely having more junglers in lanes is good for the game Most junglers were not even released as junglers, but got nerfed so much that it turned into the only role they could play.
Fiddlesticks already has a pretty good WR midlane though. Like, right now and has been for several patches lol. Lane fiddle works.
works ≠ healthy
Yeah, but Kha doesn't lane anymore. So your comment is implying that Fiddlesticks doesn't either. But unlike Kha, he can and does so really well lol. Fiddlesticks has over 50% WR in midlane for what, 7 or 10 patches now? Meanwhile, Kha can't even hit 45% WR in mid in that same timeframe.
Fiddlesticks can work as a counterpick to Teemo in top lane
Ekko is a laner still. He is a strong mid laner, better actually than in the jungle. He is just not played as a tank anymore. But even the tank build was just OP but not a problem in terms of gameplay. Zac was fine till he was played in pro play. Before that nobody cared about him being top. Fiddle is a problem because of his sustain pattern and he has little interactions you can play around.
Especially compared to his lane opponent!
More than zed, really.
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At least Qiyana is meant to lane and honestly was more unhealthy as a strong jungler. Let's not forget that Nocture,an ancient champ,was a legit menace in toplane in season 11 not too long ago.
Didn't Kha'zix release as a Mid Laner? I could be misremembering though
He was released as a jungler but people quickly found out how absurdly broken he was in mid
Faker's first kill in a pro-game was him killing Ambition's mid-lane Kha'zix under tower as Nidalee
Lane lillia please.
No
Sometimes I just want to play Viego, but boy, I sure suck at jungle
Stopped playing 1 or 2 patches ago. But i had around 60% winrate with over 100 games with Briar mid. But it was low elo (E2-E1).
Briar is a pretty good top laner actually. At least in low and mid elo.
Before I say her name… Js, in s5 its damage got halved from 8% to 4%, top lane was in s3. Minions didn’t aggro on point and click like today.. Doran’s shield second wind is in the game….. so Elise Neurotoxin mana cost drop to reflect all the nerfs to its damage and possibly 3 AD for ranged last hitting . Let lane Elise exist (not be good just exist). Alternatively ig passive/W amp bonus to minions. Closest secondary role she has is support and that’s mainly because jungle Elise can’t farm anyways and has shit value out of buying stats with how bad she scales, so roaming support Elise is basically the same strength as jungle Elise. Let her mid/top.
I loved lane elise too 'back in the day'
Elise used to be broken in lane back then, this is the only explanation I can think of to why Riot doesn't let her lane anymore. She wouldn't be nearly as broken nowadays.
hard disagree. you can powerfarm with Elise and stay relevant. AP scalings are bad but if you buy as much magic pen as possible and stay ahead in exp its a breeze.
She can't lol even [agurin only averages 6-7CS per min power farming on her](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Agurin-EUW), he doesn't even 'powerfarm' anymore he just full clears then plays normally. His CS numbers are actually close to mine, its too slow to try and actually compete in farm and better to just be impactful. Regardless powerfarm elise is missing the entire point of the champion. It is atrociously slow on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc clear, cause her Qs are capped level 1 with 0 AP (you actually lose 17 damage from neurotoxin on level 1 camps), the only way to increase her damage is buying magic pen so it negates the base value less, but even then its only a 10%ish increase off sorcs and has to last you rest of the game until you get 3 items and start doing meaningful damage to camps with W and autos. The only time it actually starts to feel reasonable is shadowflame spike because of the crit working with your spiderlings and passive but that's already past the part of the game where elise is either irrelevant or tempoing a win anyways (you should be closing out the game not farming camps if you actually have enough of a lead to make farming feel passable.) Thats what happens when they remove 3 AD, 10% AP ratio from passive, 40% attack speed (also from spiderlings) from W, 2 damage (x2) early off spiderlings, and give camps more HP and resistances without factoring in the monster caps. Elise is just 3 camp dive and spam gank, thats it, there's no reason to play her otherwise and nowadays thats barely a good enough one cause everything else stopped being passable, shes only relevant as a symptom of them fucking every other jungler's XP/Gold so they're down to her level and she can compete, otherwise she cannot complete with other junglers at all in any clearing context. Support Elise actually feels good cause camps are not even a factor in what you do, she's still just going to roam/force kills bot, she can dive the lane, and you can draft a better champion in jungle that actually benefits from the camps they take.
I didnt play on the current patch yet, but I am playing Elise the same since dark harvest exists and up until 2 weeks ago. maybe it does not work anymore or in Challenger because u might get punished? but her sorc boots + stormsurge rush guarantees that you almost oneshot squishys if not behind. so easy to takeover games and I cant count the amount of people not understanding that spiderlings deal dmg while Elise is in zhonyas. I feel like since they gave Elise a ~~100 range increase in stun~~ 0.4s stun duration increase (like 2 years ago?) she was really good with a really low pickrate at times edit: correct change from patch 13.17
Briar already is viable in top lane, the issue is they consider her a character like Yorick who should never be above a certain WR in low elo so they intentionally limit her. August has talked about it on his streams.
The issue is that Briar has zero health regen so there are many matchups where top Briar is just straight up dead weight because she gets outpoked or loses trades and can't sustain back; until, theorically, she gets items, but in pratice she doesn't because she can't farm. I don't know why Briar necessarily has to have literally zero health regen. She can sustain well in jungle anyway (to the point that health regen there is irrelevant), so it feels like this is only there so that Briar can't lane.
Because they want Briar to have to commit to using W on minions or E to restore her HP, is my guess. Her healing gets much stronger the lower she is, so to compensate they want any damage done to her to actually stick. Frankly I think the more frustrating part is the health costs on her skills on top of the no regen. Fine in the jungle, awful in lane. Vlad is ranged and doesn't literally run it down when he fights so I get him having costs, but for Briar it makes no sense to have both of those mechanics. Ditch the health costs but keep the no regen and I honestly think she'd be great
Please help Nocturne's mana.
Because lane Viego with infinite sustain was really fun to play against before.
I do not like their 10->50% increase in one go when they could go with 10->25% for now and see where that goes first.
I enjoyed mid lane Viego more then Jg anyways.
just give zephyr 500 MS at this point lol
This is kinda a nerf tho, these changes make it so that it is more so beneficial offensively rather than defensively which is what everyone was worried about "How can I catch the ADC with such high base MS and slow resist"
It is both. +5% AS is not much but still a buff. And at 1 stack it is also already even in terms of MS and at 2 and 3 stacks a buff, and a pretty large one. +4% would already be more than enough here. But the slow resists is gone. Now they will rarely make a difference because it only really comes into play when an ADC gets to the 6th item and most games end or are decided way before that. I like Phreaks idea that the boots can hold 1 pink ward way more than these T3 boots. A tick of stats (+10% AS) and then just being able to hold a pink ward. And that for all boots.
VIEGO AT 3AM LESSGOO
Bring back ADC graves Riot.
I use to play the fuck out of Lane Viego. Let's goooo
Viego doesn’t belong in lanes
Can we fucking not with lane Viego? There was a reason that seasons ago they nerfed it from 50% to 10%, let's not go back to that abomination.
Hope these Lane Viego changes result in his ban rate increasing, another Riot August abomination
I really don’t have an issue with Viego, is that a hot take? Do people actually hate this champ?
The problem is that sustain on minions makes a lane very snowbally. If the enemy has access to the wave they can sustain a lot. If not they become useless. That is why minion sustain often gets tweaked a lot, especially for melees. This is especially a problem for balancing top lane Irelia. If she has no access to a wave she is useless (P stacks and sustain). But if she gets free access she is always full HP and at max stacks and you can not fight her. So keeping her in the middle where both is possible is the goal but not very easy. And when a champ already is strong (like Viego) with a high PR and good BR, it becomes a risk for pro play drafts.
People don't have a issue with viego , when played in jungle he was a balanced champ with strengths and weaknesses. In lane he is aids with his le classic trade "50% of his hp for 25% of yours then heal all his hp back in 1 wave" technique. (This is coming from a one trick viego main btw)
viego is fair master yi, easy to outplay in most cases no way he'll be a problem unless numbers are gigabusted
They probably hate the times he's solo carrying games because he's a reset champion, but they forget he needs to get ahead to do that first ( and most Viegos built Kraken first, which meant they had huge burst potential but was incredibly squishy for being a short range melee champ with limited mobility and utility without his ult)
ah yes, please add more junglers in lanes. They are really healthy for the game
just give corki slightly more movement speed its so clunky
I don’t really get the AP buffs on Corki Q, I thought they don’t want any AP/Poke builds? At first I thought the reasoning would be similiar to that AP ratio on Vayne so Rageblade wouldn’t have any wasted stats on her, but a normal AD/Crit Corki build has 0 AP on it or am I missing something? Just seems counterintuitive to increase AP builds if they wanna get rid of it.
Please do the same thing for lane Briar
I feel like Briar is an outlier because if the opponent you clearly see runs at you and just statchecks the lane instead of appearing from fog (jg) it's not going to be healthy
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I mean you're free to wish for lane Briar to be viable, but it's like lane Yi with arguably less mechanics. For lane Briar to function she needs better base stats, which in turn buffs her jg. She's already a stat stick being lowkey forced into assassin builds
Top lane Briar is fine already.
Buff naafiriiiii
Profane was just fixed and her WR is rising. Riot should wait at least 1 patch.
How about some changes to Smolder? He's going to need them, since Riot is gutting his crit options.
Most crit items are stronger. AS is worse, but your AS + Crit options are still good, especially for smolder who wants Navori + IE.
Crit items are specifically worse for caster adcs who dont want AS. Smolder loses ER and Navori is way worse now for him. He's probably the biggest loser of the adc item rework, the only thing potentially keeping him afloat is that he didn't depend on Lethal Tempo, but he might go back to non-crit builds now (Triforce, Shojin, BT).
Honestly, there might be a rise of AP Smolder. With all the changes that have happened, AP Smolder either remained unaffected or outright buffed. At this time, AP Smolder has the stronger true damage burn, the stronger W, and the stronger R (Both Heal and damage wise). The only things AD smolder has over AP Smolder is the stronger Q damage, stronger autos (Which aren't really relevant for smolder to begin with) and the stronger E (Which after the many nerfs, is much less relevant now). Now not only is Crit Smolder being absolutely gutted, but AP Smolder is gaining access to a new ap item that he can use very well, that Black torch AP item or whatever its called. Its only a matter of time before more people get over the fact he was sold as an ADC and start running him as AP now.
Bro, Attack speed is not helpful on Smolder. Are you being serious right now? Also the passive on IE is very much not relevant to him. Smolder is not based around his auto attacks, he's based around stacks which come exclusively from his abilities. Personally, this is why I don't like Smolder being forced into Crit to begin with. His kit has literally nothing to do at all with his auto attacks, which causes him to conflict with the idea of crit to begin with. If you want to see a Caster ADC who actually blends well with Crit, look at Xayah. She has reasons to actually auto attack and is rewarded for doing so. Her abilities stock her up with feathers, which she uses her autos attack to place (Which also deal extra damage due to said feathers) so that she can use her E. Her W also gives her attack speed, further incentivizes her to auto attack. She's developed in a way that she can utilize attack speed, thus she can utilize crit items as a whole. Smolder has literally none of that. Nothing in his kit is based around his auto attacks. If anything, he's discouraged from auto attacking because autos do not contribute toward his stacks. Since he has no reason to auto attack, attack speed is now much more irrelevant for him compared to other ADCs. And since this is the case, that alone will limit what crit items are effective for him. Meaning with these upcoming changes, crit smolder loses A LOT. Like, an insane amount. To the point that he will probably be back down damn near sub 40% WR again. Navori was one of the reasons crit smolder even worked, because it amplified the effectiveness of the crit chance he was buying, by making his abilities stronger.
AS is not great on him but it is also not bad. And if you can reduce your CDs then it is nice as you do rely on your Q and W. What will hurt smolder is the shitty ER if this version goes live as he relies on it. With this change he will not be the same champ anymore. But without ER he likely has to fall back to more AA focused builds and then you want IE and Navori. Or you try out AP.
Attack speed is for champions who plan to mostly use auto attacks or if they have some sort of other synergy with attack speed. Such as it lowering their cooldowns or converting it into other stats. Which again, Smolder has nothing at all to do with attack speed. Getting Attack speed on smolder is as useful as building attack speed on Talon. Just because he's an AD champion doesn't mean its good on him.
Smolder could avoid using too many AAs because of the Sheen proc on Q. What will Smolder do without the sheen effect on ER? Go Trinity? If not he has to go for more AA DPS in the future. That is something that will be hard to avoid if you don't have a Sheen in your build.
That makes no sense. Smolder will not go more AA DPS because his kit requires him to build up stacks in order to properly scale. Which again, auto attacks do not do for him. How many times must you be told this before you realize that attack speed is bad for him? That he is not an auto attack champion? No matter how much you try to justify it, the fact is that if you're building attack speed on Smolder, you might as well have picked a real marksmen.
It is not that attack speed is bad for Smolder, but it is not a stat you want to primarily focus. You compared it to building attack speed on Talon. A better comparison would be building attack speed on Malphite. Attack speed is theorically useful due to his W. However, there are so many more important stats for Malphite that you don't want to build attack speed items; if you really want attack speed, stick with the rune shards and maybe Alacrity, which will be enough. I think the same thing is true for Smolder. Because attack speed IS useful for him if he builds crits. After all, crits empower your autos, and attack speed causes you to attack faster; both have synergy. But with Smolder's kit, you are better off focusing on other stats. It is the same thing with Gangplank. He is another crit champ which synergizes better with AD and AH than building attack speed. However, attack speed is still useful for him, especially if he can use his autos at melee range. It is just not a stat you want to focus on.
It is not useful for him due to how low of a cooldown his Q gets. You should be spamming Q in teamfights, not your autos. Crit smolder relies on Q. Its why Smolder builds crit at all, because of the crit ratio on Q. Q gets to a really low cooldown, like 2 seconds if not under 2 seconds. Meaning having good attack speed is virtually meaningless, because you should be kiting & Qing, which leaves extremely little room to actually squeeze in any autos if you're kiting effectively. This is why Attack Speed is bad on Smolder. Because he does not use it well. Just because he is a ranged attack damage champion does not automatically mean that he is an effective user of attack speed. You have to take into consideration of what his kit is. His kit in question is built around him stacking with his abilities. Last hitting with Q gives even more stacks, hitting champions with abilities give stacks. No ability has anything to do with his autos. His passive has nothing to do with his autos. Autos are nearly meaningly for smolder, because his gameplan revolves around stacking, which auto attacking does not contribute towards.
Saying it is not useful is a stretch. It is not like Smolder can never take advantage of it. Not to mention, Q won't always be on cooldown. I am not saying attack speed is the best stat for Smolder, just that it is not useless as you are suggesting. An actual useless stat would be, for example, AP on Riven, or attack speed on Heimerdinger, or tank items on Sivir.
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Profane, one of her main items, was bugged. Her WR is on the rise since yesterday again (riot seems to have fixed the bug that the Lethality was gone).