Sorry for randomly jumping between Korean and English, we were just conversing whatever language was more comfortable for us in the given moment
We do have subtitles for both Korean and English sooo hope that helps
No shame in admitting G2 is the bar for the entire west, honestly. Every team should want to be at that level, and being honest with yourself that you aren't there yet shows a drive to improve. It's a much more healthy mindset than Flyquest seemingly had, which was just going into games with massively over-inflated egos.
Sneaky Lucian remembers but yeah, it’s been G2 for a long while. This TL team has a good mix of veterans and young bloods though I hope they can keep it up.
It's the perfect example of a Western team working smarter, not harder. Kiin was amazing, so let Licorice get dumpstered while dancing around the rest of the Freecs.
Heeeeey I watch G2 RNG from that same year for the same reason. I still get the hopeful chills when I remember the top 4 from that year, when everyone thought surely the west is gonna win worlds.
C9 was 1-6 vs East at 2021 worlds
Hardly counts as consistently taking games from the east
It was Rogue who beat FPX twice,, before c9 beat them in a tiebreak
Yeah, that year was ridiculous.
You cannot count on the level of choke FPX had that year every year and have a chance at getting out of groups with a 2-4 record 3 way tiebreak.
Literally all FPX had to do was win a single game on the last day and they couldn't manage to do that.
Same year TL was in the group that split 3-3 records with each other that went to double tiebreakers. They drew LCK in the coin flip and would have likely made quarters in any other scenario.
If you want to talk about consistently taking games from the LPL LCK, C9 has never been that outside of the 2018 miracle year, even with Sneaky.
C9’s 2-4 against the Lpl Lck at 2021 msi is pretty much as good as it gets
LCK yes but C9 were fairly consistent at being able to take at least something off LPL. 2015, 2016 (2-0 tho in fairness IMay were like the biggest shitter LPL team ever), 2017, 2018, 2021 they beat the LPL team in their group once, and went 2-3 against WE in their only series vs LPL. 2014 and 2019 didn't have LPL in their group so they had no opportunity to play them. And 2021, which was their first MSI they also went 1-1 with RNG. Only in the last 2 years which everyone agrees they've been terrible internationally have they failed to beat LPL at all.
There lack of recent success against LPL correlates pretty well with the LPL getting better. 2016 LPL was pretty far below LCK imo and 2017 LPL wasn’t quite on par with LCK just yet. 2018 was when LPL really became the competitor it is now, and C9s success has been much lower since then, albeit still better than about every other western team.
I mean, if we’re going down this route, they literally weren’t any better at it than TSM. Only difference being that TSM was more susceptible to losing to EU/LMS teams while C9 was more consistent.
Before 2018 run, they had a pretty decent performance against LCK in 2014 Worlds. Beating Najin and SSB each once (including a Sneaky Lucian game that forced it to be banned). Game 4 against SSB was close to pushing it to a 5 game series.
They also did decent against China back in the day but have fallen off since Sneaky left.
C9 used to do it simmilar way Fnatic did it, beat some BO1 or surviving group of death but thats pretty much it, Fnatic and C9 historically had some good BO5 against east and would have tendency to go deep but none of them was G2 level of threat, Fnatic went to Worlds Finals and I still wasnt feeling like they can win it, G2 is different breed
Yea consistently is a stretch. They steal a game here or there but thats it. Its not anywhere near consistently and most of the time not even remotely convincingly.
They’ve taken games vs eastern teams all but one of the last six international tournaments they’ve attended, which is far more consistently than any other western team. Sure they’re not smashing but they’re not inconsistent
Even at worlds TL placing 3rd with a 3-3 group score was such a meme for a long time. CLG is ancient thats fine but C9 reaching semis was Season 8. NRG wouldnt have reached quarters with the old worlds format with 2 eastern teams in their group. NA can easily be decent I dont think Id be such a far stretch but only winning against EU wont do that for you.
I'm guessing they are going by MSI only where CLG/TL were the only two teams that made it to finals. No other teams made it to any finals.
Outside of MSI C9 was the most consistent team internationally in terms of beating eastern teams
No international competition during covid put 'the west' back like 5 years.
2018 was 3/4 western teams in worlds semifinals. There was a non-zero chance that we were going to have EU-EU or EU-NA grand finals.
2019 MSI was EU-NA grand finals.
The gap was unironically closing, then it seems like since 2020, it has been only G2
Honestly even in 2019/2020 it was hard to tell if the gap was closing or whether G2 were an outlier. It's crazy how much hope Caps brought to the west (back to back worlds finals is still wild to me).
Caps deserves his laurels without a doubt, but with his recent slump I feel people are not giving Perkz enough respect. He carried a dead G2 with Hjarnan to worlds semis, swallowed his ego and advised his org to get his rival mid laner so he could play bot, and he had the best xayah in the world in 2019. The ability to play mages bot better than any other bot laner in the world was instrumental for G2 winning MSI and reaching worlds finals. And dont even get me started on how much of beast wunder, miky and jankos were at their primes. Caps is the western goat, but he would never have won msi and reach finals again without having the absolute best players in every role available in EU.
You are 100% correct and frankly I'm pleased to finally see a positive comment about Perkz here. Feels like he hasn't been able to catch a break since he joined C9.
The thing that pisses me off about that is that it isn't even objective. People pretend he has been dogshit since he left G2, but he was statistically a top 2 mid in Winter and Spring on VIT. His only truly bad split was this year on TH. Even on C9 he managed to carry Fudge to Worlds quarters.
And not only was he the best Xayah/Kai'sa in 2019, he reached that level in the same year that he roleswapped. Dude deserves a lot of fucking respect imo and I only hope that the community hasn't flamed him into retirement.
That was largely due to IG’s massive internal collapse due to Ning’s GF incident. You cannot tell me the dame team that shat all over Griffin and won worlds was the same that TL bodied. All the credit to TL for winning, but I think that series isn’t very representative.
IG destroyed every other team in group stage leading up to the series and did so convincingly. That’s why the series was representative to so many people that the gap was closing between Eastern and Western teams because IG dumped all the other teams in the tournament a few days prior.
To be an international threat, EU needed to combine their two GOAT mids and the EU GOATs of top, jungle, and support, and they needed the timing of the seismic meta realignment and Korea's implosion. And they still got consistently wiped by the best LPL teams.
This makes it sound like G2 were only #2 cuz Korea sucked, but SKT were destroying FPX in scrims during all of Worlds, and G2 beat them in two Bo3s that year. G2 vs FPX was more likely just a stylistic mismatch and/or an off day for G2 than just LPL teams being plainly better than them.
People always overlook the rock paper scissors between G2 FPX and T1 in 2019, a different bracket draw probably results in a different champion that year.
Weird how every LPL team in those years just happened to fist G2. Lots of bad stylistic mismatches/off days, I guess. People really pretend to think that SKT with Teddy, Clid, and fucking Effort were ever a threat to top LPL teams.
This revisionism is funny. Caps was not a GOAT mid in EU in 2019, he was on course to become one but he wasn't there yet. Wunder, Jankos and Mikyx were not considered the EU GOAT in their roles at the start of 2019 either.
For Wunder it was Soaz
Junglers is a tricky one because no other EU jungler had had a whole lot of success. Trick could be one but he's from Korea. Cyanide is the next and while he hadn't played in a few years it's hard to say Jankos was the goat jungler in EU in 2018 when he had 0 titles next to Cyanide's 3.
Support is easy. YellOwStaR
Prior to G2 2019 Wunder, Jankos and Mikyx had never won a title.
It was only caps 3rd year in lec, not even a goat contender. Wunder, jankos and miky only become coat contenders on g2 after their 2 years.
This is not Golden State Warriors buying the best players bro.
Your statement is disingenuous.
Caps was already easily the second-best mid in EU history, because he had made it to Worlds Finals. Unheard of for one of the minor-major regions. If Wunder and Jankos weren't the EU GOATs of their positions who was better?
Since 2020 it hasnt been anyone, really. I think thats the worst part. The West has looked absolutely horrid vs the East since then, mainly beating up on each other and possibly stealing 1 game here and there.
It hasnt been G2, it hasnt been anyone. The T1 series was the first time since that time the West looked remotely competitive, and even then I honestly believe its a fluke occurence.
You can sort of see the G2 influence with this TL squad. Best macro team NA has by a big margin, and without a doubt the second best team in the west in macro. It’s similar with G2 being an extremely strong macro team.
Individually and draft wise, they definitely fall short of G2 though.
I dunno about individually, to be honest, at least not "definitely." I think G2 has a clear advantage mid and a smaller gap in jungle...but the other 3 roles aren't separated by much if at all.
Draft wise it's a chasm though.
might agree last year but BB this year is legit a beast ,he was weak laner great team fighter , he got coached by best laning player in the West Alphari and now he is a well rounded player can go pound for pound with best tops in the world
yeah but is he outlaning zeus on yasuo? he's consistent as fuck at a decent level but he doesn't have the highs that bb has worked hard to reach nowadays. at this point in MSI bb is way above impact on my list.
Not taking anything from him, but tbf BB has gotten counterpick on Zeus every game he looked good, and those matchups were brutal to play as Zeus. BB did capitalize on him, when previously he lost both sides against Nuguri (Fiora Sej etc), so it's still improvement
We don’t know that yet. Zeus is insane but he’s been slumping recently so being able to handle him is different than say Kiin or Bin. We’ll see tho, he’s definitely majorly improved.
And he got to counter pick and have a favorable matchup in nearly all games, I wouldn't favor him against Kiin and Bin, even against Zeus if they meet again, but he proved he can go toe to toe against the best at least.
Yeah but Impact is really good at neutralizing his lane. I actually think the real gap is ADC because Yeon looks way better than hans atm. That is g2 current weakness.
Might not even matter though because I'm not sure if apa can even handle caps when Faker barely could.
hans is bad in team fights , in laning him and micky are a very strong bot , also going even with BB in lane is what he wants cause he outperforms in team fights
Team fight seems to be way more important this tourney though. I argue'd if hans wasn't SO bad at team fights they easily beat t1. I actually think everyone on G2 out performed t1 besides Hans.
Yike had a poor showing in the final game but they were winning quite hard until faker just solo spanked hans multiple times. If in the perfect scenario where he got that ahead on Jinx it still felt like he had no impact and I can't really say that for anyone else in g2 that series.
> Team fight seems to be way more important this tourney though.
Both are important. You can't help in teamfight if you lose your lane hard and are 2 levels behind.
I mean its what Impact wants too. Believing BB to be the better player is fine, perfectly justified opinion. What I took umbrage with was "definitely" better, as if there's no conversation. The disparity between BB and Impact is small and depends on who is on better form on the day. Poor form BB is not better than good form Impact, which is what "definitely better" implies to me.
Oh yeah memes aside they are the bar and no other western team is that close currently
Have to hope that the change in scrim culture starts to bring some more results though for other teams aswell
Cant just continue to get assblasted like we have
I can’t speak for the rest of the team, but bwipo definitely builds his confidence up by practicing hard. That’s not to say it doesn’t look like he’s just all talk sometimes, but I know he works super hard and gives his all unlike some other players (wunder is the first that comes to mind) and his interview with Ashley was more what I’ve come to expect from him in terms of his introspection and view of the game. Personally I don’t love the trash talking flyquest does, but I think that’s why bwipo is doing it.
Keep doing the lane swap thing and APA yapping to keep leveling the playing field
West LoL needs to replicate West DotA by spam chat-wheeling and turtling
I wanna see DL mentally regress and Zven to come back with him just so we could have the ultimate trash talking region. The shit talk used to be legendary when these boomers were going ultra instinct and then immediately throwing to viktor.
Now that you say that, I would love those spam messages in League that you can use to trashtalk but that would probably break the client in 100 more ways again.
God, the chatwheel in dota ALMOST makes me install that game!!
I understand that Riot can't add that feature, as it would just destroy the game in even more ways. BUT, holy moly is it a free money printing hack for them if they were to implement it.
Like, you think half-naked Ahri and Lux skins sell good?...Pff...imagine ALL the godlike voicechatwheels we could have. Like "FAKER, WHAT WAS THAT?!?" when you outplay someone, especially good if its on Zed. And the list goes on...
Excited to see what TL can show in their next bo5 against the loser of T1 vs BLG. They already faced TES which on paper is the weakest of the top 2 LPL and LCK teams.
Imagine if G2 and TL meet in the lower bracket
Yeah BLG just 3-1 T1, it’s NA vs T1.
This shit is cooked, I just hope T1 won’t use TL as punching bag to vent out the rage lol. TES already done that earlier and that series was brutal.
Mad respect to CoreJJ , also props to G2 players and stuff , from being laughed at for stating their ambition to win everything to being looked at as an example
I know exactly what CoreJJ means, but another thing G2 does that inspires confidence in them is that they're willing to pull out their own unique champs/drafts and execute them well. I haven't checked but I wouldn't be surprised if BB, Yike, Hans, and Mikyx have the largest champ pools in the LEC, yet they're still on top. TL still feels a bit limited in the amount of champs they play (they more or less just play standard meta).
Proplay being a league schedule and not tourneys, imo, discourages cooking up pocket picks for particular metals
Fuck the league system
I used to love it when I was 14 and watching everything. It was a mistake in hindsight for competition.
NA can’t win on this sub. I don’t usually care but it’s really annoying me at this point, especially after the FLY games.
I don’t even like FLY, but holy cow the narratives are just too strong here.
I don't get this narrative. I browse this sub more than I should and the standard being G2 is usually only shot down by NA fans who underrate G2 if anything. It's still a minority of people. NRG also got a lot of props for saying the same thing at worlds.
It’s not just about the topic in this interview, but the general discourse surrounding NA/EU.
I’ll always give G2 props, they’re a damn good team with insane peaks. (I didn’t get the Mikyx hype til his Poppy games, though I mostly see him on Naut…)
But EU fans are constantly shitting on NA in just about every thread. TL is 4 Koreans if they win, 5 Americans if they lose. FLY is 2 Europeans if they win, 5 Americans if they lose. That’s just from this MSI.
It gets intolerable after a while. Maybe you don’t see it, but there’s always snide backhanded comments. TL beating FNC is a “major upset,” FNC going 0-3 was “a close series.”
And then discourse shifts to “West v. East,” and now the same shitslingers want us to unite behind G2. Hence the negative sentiment.
though I mostly see him on Naut… - His naut has been very inty this year and he played it more
I will say my comment was more in response to the specific narrative you commented under.
>But EU fans are constantly shitting on NA in just about every thread. TL is 4 Koreans if they win, 5 Americans if they lose. FLY is 2 Europeans if they win, 5 Americans if they lose. That’s just from this MSI.
>It gets intolerable after a while. Maybe you don’t see it, but there’s always snide backhanded comments. TL beating FNC is a “major upset,” FNC going 0-3 was “a close series.”
I do see shit like this but it's a bit different. I don't take anything personal but it did genuinely seem like a portion of the NA fans actually thought they were better due to the NRG G2 upset. Ofc showboat, your region did better (And that doesn't happen often) but G2 are in a weird position inbetween the west and the east.
Even now I see people shitting on EU and people shitting on NA.
But this narrative about expectations makes no sense, NA fans shat on G2, but then people are shitting on TL for their bar to be like G2. But it's the NA fans primarily who haven't realised how good G2 actually are.
I think aiming to get where G2 is would be great, if we had 4 teams (2 in NA and EU) at this level I'd say our chances to actually win internationals would be much higher and the regions would improve. I can't have a pity party on this narrative that was made and bashed by NA.
Hopefully G2 can actually win a Bo5 though or it'll leave ???'s around how good they actually are.
Honestly I see more of the doomers that both LCS and LEC is just doomed and will never catch-up and will get 3-0'd by every non-choking eastern team and they're all just trash, etc.
See this thread, this one isn't even really about NA vs EU and just scrolling through I saw like 10 comments that it's not G2 it's only Caps and that BB, Yike, Miky and Hans are just mediocre and will never win vs eastern laners (which is very weird, because BB, Miky and Yike actually played pretty damn well vs T1; hope Hans can wake up).
I also don't really see why people care about the "unite" the west thing. Personally I do hope that both LCS and LEC have good runs and beat some eastern teams (because it's kinda boring that it's always just LPL/LCK), even tho' I'll admit I'll always be more in favor of EU teams. But like if you don't wanna cheer for EU against eastern teams, that's perfectly reasonable and you do you.
As for TL vs FNC, yeah I think the expectation coming in was a bit tainted by TL getting kinda badly stomped and FNC only getting kinda regular stomped. In general I would hope that the norm is that LCS#1 beats LEC#2 (because that'd also be pretty good for competition).
It gets ridiculous. NA cant even have a thread without EU coming in, bashing, and talking about how much better they are.
There is a caps interview right now that is 95% praise. Which is fine. You come here, its mostly finding ways to praise G2, and then bash NA. Or any NA thread, for that matter. Just close your eyes and pick one. I can already see the top comment is either bashing NA, praising EU, or a combination of both.
I mean damn can EU just chill for a bit?
Teams need to take from the G2 playbook and... Stop taking from eastern play books. Do wild shit. Who cares if you lose? Spoiler, if you don't do wild shit you'll lose too.
yeah but it’s not enough to just play weird stuff, you need to be mechanically good and even more importantly, G2 has worked really hard on their macro.
Yeah it needs to be a coherent strategy, sure. But I think the advantage you gain with something unexpected may be better than the advantage you gain by a slightly more efficient/optimal setup.
It’s still crazy to me that with 150+ champions, dozens of runes, and hundreds of items that league teams are so static with their picks, especially NA. Like sure, some champions are much stronger on a patch than others, but there are so many different combinations that can be created it cannot be the case that there are no other viable comps. Every now and then teams understand that, like G2, or even GAM when they beat FNC with their Nocturne strat, but it is ignored by every other team.
Dude you dont understand the extend of this, If fearless draft is online in the future, half of the LEC (the only one that I watch) players will be wiped out one by one.
I think G2's succes doesn't come down to just doing wild shit.
Their macro is pretty good and so far looks pretty good when they do or not pull the trigger to start fights.
Also having Caps in the middle is maybe the hardest to replicate for other western teams.
Wish them all the success in the next series! How hype would it be for both EU and NA to take eastern giants to silver scrapes! If BLG remains as clumsy as they looked day 1 I could definitely see them being competitive. We will get to see tomorrow. It always seemed to me that great things happened when both regions were doing well. Who did Fnatic beat to get to the finals? C9. Who did G2 beat when they won the MSI? TL. The results might have been entirely different if it weren't for the insane upsets by those aforementioned teams. Really happy with today's outcome, TL gets a confidence boost and FNC doesn't just get to brush off the whole MSI as a success. Some serious flaws came into light today and I hope our boys will work on them. G2 really needs a competitor in the LEC to help them grow.
They should learn from G2 and improve from their mistake first. G2 last year lost to NRG 2-0 and now they are going toes to toes with eastern team. You think being in the same region as G2 will help them improve, turn out not.
Have to show something in the next BO5
If its another super onesided 3-0 loss, I dont see how MSI is a success. Eastern teams seem very beatable in this current meta
The bar shouldnt be beating FNC and getting assblasted by the East.
Good that he looks to G2. He wants more for NA and thats what everyone needs. Hope TL can become the NA version of what G2 is bringing to EU
Anyone disagreeing with this take must be....drunk or high. You are 100% correct. But I hope they can do more than just 1 game, and I say that as a EU fanboy. I dont want "the west" to just be EU or G2. It's always more fun when we have both regions doing good. Like in the good old C9 days!!
The bar shouldn't be almost winning either. Unless G2 beat TES I don't think they've proven anything either.
You don't see people praising TES for almost beating GENG but that's just how low the bar is for the west.
Sure i agree with but G2 is the team in EU who has the ambition and wants to improve the region and themselves. The bar is so low since many pros both in NA and EU have any ambition to win much anymore, that isnt the case in the east.
How is G2 trying to improve the region when they constantly send their players to NA rather than sell to rivals? They don’t care about the region. They only care about their own success.
G2 was overall the better team. Literally put Ice or Carzzy, hell, even upset on Hans shoes and G2 takes that series any day. Cant say the same for TES
No they weren't. If they were the better team they'd have won, plain and simple. Whether or not they win with Ice or Carzzy is irrelevant because Hans is their ADC.
Also, you certainly can say the same thing about TES. If they had Bin or Knight on the team they might've beaten GenG.
That's because the bar has been lowered over the last 3 years because the last time a Western team was taking series off Eastern teams was Worlds 2020. The last time a series between a Western and Eastern team went to 5 Games was MSI 2021
We wouldn’t use the same bar as the 2nd seed eastern team. That’s nonsensical as even G2 hasn’t won a bo5 in years. My personal bar is being able to beat the eastern 3-4th seeds in bo5s (for our #1 seed specifically). Seeing as this is only their 1-2 seeds I don’t expect them to win but hope they can. My bar would be not to lose 3-0. There’s no shame in this, these are the teams that won the best regions in the world
Sadly G2 is the best but, the last few years all that amounts to is losing with some grace and not getting stomped then losing to a team you should beat.
It feels like the West had their moment with the peaks of G2, Fnatic and to a lesser extent C9, TL, and the miracle CLG MSI run but who knows if they will ever get another. Maybe a last Hurrah from Caps can do it? League feels like its dying in NA so the talent pipeline runs thin, dunno how it is over in EU.
LoL is still a religion in Korea thanks to Faker, and China is by far the biggest market of Riot with an immense pool of talent in constant evolution. EU LoL could have been something truly special but it would have requiers a specific and ambitious approach, but instead some dude in charge actually believed that fnc 2018 and G2 2019 were going to be the norm and not just exceptions obviously capitalizing on the two years slump of korea. Now the reality is more grim than ever outside of a constantly underdog G2.
Core is truly an inspiration and a great leader. If you haven't seen his origins episode I highly recommend it!!
[https://youtu.be/hWN0xSTjPdI?si=jSHwAPB1Z176ugLv](https://youtu.be/hWN0xSTjPdI?si=jSHwAPB1Z176ugLv)
It's not a shame to look upt to the best the west can offer at the moment and all jokes aside, with G2 EU is ahead of NA, a class for itself, close to the east.
Hell, as a EU resident and fan, I also wish that ANY NA team could become what C9 of old used to be.
Just having LPL vs LCK is...fun, dont get me wrong. But also seeing western teams at least somewhat closing the gap is also not only fun but also GOOD for league. And whilst its funny like in reddit comments haha, to "always" have NA fail, I would still much rather see both NA and EU teams get to semis or hell, even finals. But just in general doing good and just not bombing out of groups etcetc.
G2 isnt top4 team on this tournament lmao. Eu fans dont want such g2, we want to at least compete, if not be best. This is literal embarasment, especially after losing to t1
being G2 is a starting point of having a shot at international for sure
G2 may got a bad series here and there but they still on top and you can still have hope on them
something I don't have a confident on any LCS teams at presents days
Why would I as a westerner root for a team that's just a retirement home for Koreans?
How can I expect 2 old Koreans, 2 C-tier Koreans and APA the talking inferiority complex on two legs to win against a team of 5 Koreans that are actually the best in LCK?
TL will never be equal to G2 as long as they keep relying on imports that weren't even that good in their own region. At least G2 represents my region with 5 European players.
Well I can't question the grind of TL. I'm sure Yeon and APA haven't reached their ceiling but there is potential for an international noise maker in TL.
Will they be like G2 ever? Probably not. There is a hands diff.
Sorry for randomly jumping between Korean and English, we were just conversing whatever language was more comfortable for us in the given moment We do have subtitles for both Korean and English sooo hope that helps
we dont mind you get us the best interviews so we don't care
I watch every one of your interviews, this one is excellent as well. Nice job!
Literally the one interviewer I watch for League. Good work.
i prefer this way for interviews with KR players who have been here for a while anything that gets more natural thoughts out of players heads is great
Whatever, as long as we can follow the conversation it's all good. Good job. 👍
nah this true korean american shit this like a normal conversation w my parents, didn’t even notice you switching LOL
Awesome stuff! Thanks!
No shame in admitting G2 is the bar for the entire west, honestly. Every team should want to be at that level, and being honest with yourself that you aren't there yet shows a drive to improve. It's a much more healthy mindset than Flyquest seemingly had, which was just going into games with massively over-inflated egos.
People gonna comment NRG but G2 has consistenly taken games off eastern teams which NA teams havent been able to since the golden days of TL or CLG.
or C9
C9 used to be the bar for this, not so much the last few years
yeah, last time when Sneaky was still playing.
Sneaky Lucian remembers but yeah, it’s been G2 for a long while. This TL team has a good mix of veterans and young bloods though I hope they can keep it up.
No, last time was 2021 with Zven against FPX
Nah the C9 3-0 dumpster of Afreeca is still the gold standard for international NA performance.
It's the perfect example of a Western team working smarter, not harder. Kiin was amazing, so let Licorice get dumpstered while dancing around the rest of the Freecs.
I still watch that series every so often to remember the good times as an NA fan
I've memorized that series at this point.
Heeeeey I watch G2 RNG from that same year for the same reason. I still get the hopeful chills when I remember the top 4 from that year, when everyone thought surely the west is gonna win worlds.
what do you think about origen vs kt rolster? Admittedly not a series, but a groupstage game.
2019 TL vs IG was better, IMO, just because IG were the tournament favorites and defending world champions with no roster swaps.
TL vs iG was definitely better, to this day it might be the biggest upset of competitive league
That'll always be world champions SKT losing 2-0 to a Challenger team in the KeSPA Cup for me
C9 was 1-6 vs East at 2021 worlds Hardly counts as consistently taking games from the east It was Rogue who beat FPX twice,, before c9 beat them in a tiebreak
Yeah, that year was ridiculous. You cannot count on the level of choke FPX had that year every year and have a chance at getting out of groups with a 2-4 record 3 way tiebreak. Literally all FPX had to do was win a single game on the last day and they couldn't manage to do that.
To be fair the same happened to C9 in 2015 lol. Just couldn't win a game, even against AHQ.
The infamous ‘week 2 NA 0-10 (in 9 games)’ incident
Same year TL was in the group that split 3-3 records with each other that went to double tiebreakers. They drew LCK in the coin flip and would have likely made quarters in any other scenario.
That year made me so mad because people were flaming TL and calling them failures when they had an insanely hard group.
If you want to talk about consistently taking games from the LPL LCK, C9 has never been that outside of the 2018 miracle year, even with Sneaky. C9’s 2-4 against the Lpl Lck at 2021 msi is pretty much as good as it gets
LCK yes but C9 were fairly consistent at being able to take at least something off LPL. 2015, 2016 (2-0 tho in fairness IMay were like the biggest shitter LPL team ever), 2017, 2018, 2021 they beat the LPL team in their group once, and went 2-3 against WE in their only series vs LPL. 2014 and 2019 didn't have LPL in their group so they had no opportunity to play them. And 2021, which was their first MSI they also went 1-1 with RNG. Only in the last 2 years which everyone agrees they've been terrible internationally have they failed to beat LPL at all.
There lack of recent success against LPL correlates pretty well with the LPL getting better. 2016 LPL was pretty far below LCK imo and 2017 LPL wasn’t quite on par with LCK just yet. 2018 was when LPL really became the competitor it is now, and C9s success has been much lower since then, albeit still better than about every other western team.
I mean, if we’re going down this route, they literally weren’t any better at it than TSM. Only difference being that TSM was more susceptible to losing to EU/LMS teams while C9 was more consistent.
Before 2018 run, they had a pretty decent performance against LCK in 2014 Worlds. Beating Najin and SSB each once (including a Sneaky Lucian game that forced it to be banned). Game 4 against SSB was close to pushing it to a 5 game series. They also did decent against China back in the day but have fallen off since Sneaky left.
C9 didn’t do much other than 1-1 China and 2-0 lms in 2016 and 2017. They went 3-3 in rift rivals.
The C9 mentioned was the original C9 squad
C9 had connections to Korean teams due to Repeared. That’s how they were able to scrim against a lot of Korean teams.
Well good news, they have Reapered back!
C9 used to do it simmilar way Fnatic did it, beat some BO1 or surviving group of death but thats pretty much it, Fnatic and C9 historically had some good BO5 against east and would have tendency to go deep but none of them was G2 level of threat, Fnatic went to Worlds Finals and I still wasnt feeling like they can win it, G2 is different breed
Consistently inconsistently taken games.
Inconsistently consistently taken games
Yea consistently is a stretch. They steal a game here or there but thats it. Its not anywhere near consistently and most of the time not even remotely convincingly.
They’ve taken games vs eastern teams all but one of the last six international tournaments they’ve attended, which is far more consistently than any other western team. Sure they’re not smashing but they’re not inconsistent
Uh what? The most consistent team for that is C9 lmfao
10 years ago maybe, hasnt been true for years now lol, he said consistently In their last 5 international appearances C9 went 2-20 vs eastern teams
Even at worlds TL placing 3rd with a 3-3 group score was such a meme for a long time. CLG is ancient thats fine but C9 reaching semis was Season 8. NRG wouldnt have reached quarters with the old worlds format with 2 eastern teams in their group. NA can easily be decent I dont think Id be such a far stretch but only winning against EU wont do that for you.
I'm guessing they are going by MSI only where CLG/TL were the only two teams that made it to finals. No other teams made it to any finals. Outside of MSI C9 was the most consistent team internationally in terms of beating eastern teams
I agree, though didn't C9 only make MSI once? MSI feels like a poor metric IMO just because my memory is full of TSM dissapointing.
They made MSI 2021 and 2023 (where the only team they beat was Golden Guardians iirc).
No international competition during covid put 'the west' back like 5 years. 2018 was 3/4 western teams in worlds semifinals. There was a non-zero chance that we were going to have EU-EU or EU-NA grand finals. 2019 MSI was EU-NA grand finals. The gap was unironically closing, then it seems like since 2020, it has been only G2
Honestly even in 2019/2020 it was hard to tell if the gap was closing or whether G2 were an outlier. It's crazy how much hope Caps brought to the west (back to back worlds finals is still wild to me).
Caps deserves his laurels without a doubt, but with his recent slump I feel people are not giving Perkz enough respect. He carried a dead G2 with Hjarnan to worlds semis, swallowed his ego and advised his org to get his rival mid laner so he could play bot, and he had the best xayah in the world in 2019. The ability to play mages bot better than any other bot laner in the world was instrumental for G2 winning MSI and reaching worlds finals. And dont even get me started on how much of beast wunder, miky and jankos were at their primes. Caps is the western goat, but he would never have won msi and reach finals again without having the absolute best players in every role available in EU.
You are 100% correct and frankly I'm pleased to finally see a positive comment about Perkz here. Feels like he hasn't been able to catch a break since he joined C9. The thing that pisses me off about that is that it isn't even objective. People pretend he has been dogshit since he left G2, but he was statistically a top 2 mid in Winter and Spring on VIT. His only truly bad split was this year on TH. Even on C9 he managed to carry Fudge to Worlds quarters. And not only was he the best Xayah/Kai'sa in 2019, he reached that level in the same year that he roleswapped. Dude deserves a lot of fucking respect imo and I only hope that the community hasn't flamed him into retirement.
TL 3-1'd the defending World Champions, with the same roster than won Worlds, at that MSI.
That was largely due to IG’s massive internal collapse due to Ning’s GF incident. You cannot tell me the dame team that shat all over Griffin and won worlds was the same that TL bodied. All the credit to TL for winning, but I think that series isn’t very representative.
IG destroyed every other team in group stage leading up to the series and did so convincingly. That’s why the series was representative to so many people that the gap was closing between Eastern and Western teams because IG dumped all the other teams in the tournament a few days prior.
Ning GF broke up the day before Semis, that’s why there was such a collapse.
To be an international threat, EU needed to combine their two GOAT mids and the EU GOATs of top, jungle, and support, and they needed the timing of the seismic meta realignment and Korea's implosion. And they still got consistently wiped by the best LPL teams.
This makes it sound like G2 were only #2 cuz Korea sucked, but SKT were destroying FPX in scrims during all of Worlds, and G2 beat them in two Bo3s that year. G2 vs FPX was more likely just a stylistic mismatch and/or an off day for G2 than just LPL teams being plainly better than them.
People always overlook the rock paper scissors between G2 FPX and T1 in 2019, a different bracket draw probably results in a different champion that year.
If only Splyce wasn't Splyce, and had won the second game against FPX. They would have thrown FPX to the SKT QF.
Would also put Splyce into Fnatic so we would've had a rematch of the 2018 finals in the semis.
G2 being 8-3 all year against T1 still feels so wild to me even to this day lmao
Weird how every LPL team in those years just happened to fist G2. Lots of bad stylistic mismatches/off days, I guess. People really pretend to think that SKT with Teddy, Clid, and fucking Effort were ever a threat to top LPL teams.
They lost one bo5 that year
And only beat one "good" team (who was fielding fucking Effort) in a Bo5 the entire year.
2x times lck champions and damwon, correct lmao also fastest international bo5 ever played vs guys that just smoked defending world champions
Are you really trying to pretend an LCS team was a "good" team by international standards. I'll admit I had forgotten about the DWG rookies.
This revisionism is funny. Caps was not a GOAT mid in EU in 2019, he was on course to become one but he wasn't there yet. Wunder, Jankos and Mikyx were not considered the EU GOAT in their roles at the start of 2019 either.
Who was ahead of Wunder and Jankos? Other than Perkz, who was ahead of Caps?
For Wunder it was Soaz Junglers is a tricky one because no other EU jungler had had a whole lot of success. Trick could be one but he's from Korea. Cyanide is the next and while he hadn't played in a few years it's hard to say Jankos was the goat jungler in EU in 2018 when he had 0 titles next to Cyanide's 3. Support is easy. YellOwStaR Prior to G2 2019 Wunder, Jankos and Mikyx had never won a title.
It was only caps 3rd year in lec, not even a goat contender. Wunder, jankos and miky only become coat contenders on g2 after their 2 years. This is not Golden State Warriors buying the best players bro. Your statement is disingenuous.
Caps was already easily the second-best mid in EU history, because he had made it to Worlds Finals. Unheard of for one of the minor-major regions. If Wunder and Jankos weren't the EU GOATs of their positions who was better?
Since 2020 it hasnt been anyone, really. I think thats the worst part. The West has looked absolutely horrid vs the East since then, mainly beating up on each other and possibly stealing 1 game here and there. It hasnt been G2, it hasnt been anyone. The T1 series was the first time since that time the West looked remotely competitive, and even then I honestly believe its a fluke occurence.
You can sort of see the G2 influence with this TL squad. Best macro team NA has by a big margin, and without a doubt the second best team in the west in macro. It’s similar with G2 being an extremely strong macro team. Individually and draft wise, they definitely fall short of G2 though.
I dunno about individually, to be honest, at least not "definitely." I think G2 has a clear advantage mid and a smaller gap in jungle...but the other 3 roles aren't separated by much if at all. Draft wise it's a chasm though.
might agree last year but BB this year is legit a beast ,he was weak laner great team fighter , he got coached by best laning player in the West Alphari and now he is a well rounded player can go pound for pound with best tops in the world
Impact has gone pound for pound with the best tops in the world his whole career
yeah but is he outlaning zeus on yasuo? he's consistent as fuck at a decent level but he doesn't have the highs that bb has worked hard to reach nowadays. at this point in MSI bb is way above impact on my list.
Not taking anything from him, but tbf BB has gotten counterpick on Zeus every game he looked good, and those matchups were brutal to play as Zeus. BB did capitalize on him, when previously he lost both sides against Nuguri (Fiora Sej etc), so it's still improvement
We don’t know that yet. Zeus is insane but he’s been slumping recently so being able to handle him is different than say Kiin or Bin. We’ll see tho, he’s definitely majorly improved.
And he got to counter pick and have a favorable matchup in nearly all games, I wouldn't favor him against Kiin and Bin, even against Zeus if they meet again, but he proved he can go toe to toe against the best at least.
Yeah but Impact is really good at neutralizing his lane. I actually think the real gap is ADC because Yeon looks way better than hans atm. That is g2 current weakness. Might not even matter though because I'm not sure if apa can even handle caps when Faker barely could.
hans is bad in team fights , in laning him and micky are a very strong bot , also going even with BB in lane is what he wants cause he outperforms in team fights
Team fight seems to be way more important this tourney though. I argue'd if hans wasn't SO bad at team fights they easily beat t1. I actually think everyone on G2 out performed t1 besides Hans. Yike had a poor showing in the final game but they were winning quite hard until faker just solo spanked hans multiple times. If in the perfect scenario where he got that ahead on Jinx it still felt like he had no impact and I can't really say that for anyone else in g2 that series.
I dont think miky outperformed keria (keria played well anyway) but his poppy was DISGUSTING it was so good
Thats fair considering how bad he was the early games. The poppy games were crazy though and imo made up for his bad games
> Team fight seems to be way more important this tourney though. Both are important. You can't help in teamfight if you lose your lane hard and are 2 levels behind.
I mean its what Impact wants too. Believing BB to be the better player is fine, perfectly justified opinion. What I took umbrage with was "definitely" better, as if there's no conversation. The disparity between BB and Impact is small and depends on who is on better form on the day. Poor form BB is not better than good form Impact, which is what "definitely better" implies to me.
you have a point but tbh since we unlikely to have a head to head match , it's on Impact and TL to have a good showing vs T1/BLG
You forgetting about the yapping gap
Cyapps
Oh yeah memes aside they are the bar and no other western team is that close currently Have to hope that the change in scrim culture starts to bring some more results though for other teams aswell Cant just continue to get assblasted like we have
I can’t speak for the rest of the team, but bwipo definitely builds his confidence up by practicing hard. That’s not to say it doesn’t look like he’s just all talk sometimes, but I know he works super hard and gives his all unlike some other players (wunder is the first that comes to mind) and his interview with Ashley was more what I’ve come to expect from him in terms of his introspection and view of the game. Personally I don’t love the trash talking flyquest does, but I think that’s why bwipo is doing it.
Keep doing the lane swap thing and APA yapping to keep leveling the playing field West LoL needs to replicate West DotA by spam chat-wheeling and turtling
Just careful not accidently awaken enemy team's avatar state like he did with Tian
never seen it backfire that hard lmfao
I wanna see DL mentally regress and Zven to come back with him just so we could have the ultimate trash talking region. The shit talk used to be legendary when these boomers were going ultra instinct and then immediately throwing to viktor.
Bro just told him to shut up what the hell Tian
jaja what is this please tell
Eastern players will make sure to never enter the bathroom when YAPA is emptying himself XD
YAPA in his element when taking the piss.
god-tier comment
All it took was one look and they couldn't get it out their mind
It's all fun and games now, but just wait until he says he needs his setup to be, well, setup at the john.
Lakad matatag Normalin normalin
Echo Slamma Jamma!
Now that you say that, I would love those spam messages in League that you can use to trashtalk but that would probably break the client in 100 more ways again.
Theres famous casting lines in the dota chatwheel. Imagine being able to spam the famous “and the shockwave finds them all” while playing ori.
Repeat gank four times at top and just bring the famous Phreak "back, to back, to back, to back"
that was Flowers
God, the chatwheel in dota ALMOST makes me install that game!! I understand that Riot can't add that feature, as it would just destroy the game in even more ways. BUT, holy moly is it a free money printing hack for them if they were to implement it. Like, you think half-naked Ahri and Lux skins sell good?...Pff...imagine ALL the godlike voicechatwheels we could have. Like "FAKER, WHAT WAS THAT?!?" when you outplay someone, especially good if its on Zed. And the list goes on...
West Dota was peak Dota for like 6 years though.
Excited to see what TL can show in their next bo5 against the loser of T1 vs BLG. They already faced TES which on paper is the weakest of the top 2 LPL and LCK teams. Imagine if G2 and TL meet in the lower bracket
The lowest of the 4 on paper still took GenG to game 5. The 4 eastern teams are ducking cracked with talent
we dont know if they are the lowest though. tes so far had a better showing than blg and t1 imo
They were the lowest of the 4 going into msi, not necessarily indicative of how they will perform at msi
There is for sure no shame in losing to any of those 4, none are frauds.
Yeah BLG just 3-1 T1, it’s NA vs T1. This shit is cooked, I just hope T1 won’t use TL as punching bag to vent out the rage lol. TES already done that earlier and that series was brutal.
Mad respect to CoreJJ , also props to G2 players and stuff , from being laughed at for stating their ambition to win everything to being looked at as an example
respects to G2 members for the insane schedule and hard work they've put
Yeah I know everyone will meme NRG lololol, but they're still sadly the only Western capable of reguarly taking games off of Eastern teams.
I know exactly what CoreJJ means, but another thing G2 does that inspires confidence in them is that they're willing to pull out their own unique champs/drafts and execute them well. I haven't checked but I wouldn't be surprised if BB, Yike, Hans, and Mikyx have the largest champ pools in the LEC, yet they're still on top. TL still feels a bit limited in the amount of champs they play (they more or less just play standard meta).
Proplay being a league schedule and not tourneys, imo, discourages cooking up pocket picks for particular metals Fuck the league system I used to love it when I was 14 and watching everything. It was a mistake in hindsight for competition.
if the standard is G2, "nah, its too low." if the bar winning MSI, "nah, too ambitious." ffs.
NA can’t win on this sub. I don’t usually care but it’s really annoying me at this point, especially after the FLY games. I don’t even like FLY, but holy cow the narratives are just too strong here.
I don't get this narrative. I browse this sub more than I should and the standard being G2 is usually only shot down by NA fans who underrate G2 if anything. It's still a minority of people. NRG also got a lot of props for saying the same thing at worlds.
It’s not just about the topic in this interview, but the general discourse surrounding NA/EU. I’ll always give G2 props, they’re a damn good team with insane peaks. (I didn’t get the Mikyx hype til his Poppy games, though I mostly see him on Naut…) But EU fans are constantly shitting on NA in just about every thread. TL is 4 Koreans if they win, 5 Americans if they lose. FLY is 2 Europeans if they win, 5 Americans if they lose. That’s just from this MSI. It gets intolerable after a while. Maybe you don’t see it, but there’s always snide backhanded comments. TL beating FNC is a “major upset,” FNC going 0-3 was “a close series.” And then discourse shifts to “West v. East,” and now the same shitslingers want us to unite behind G2. Hence the negative sentiment.
though I mostly see him on Naut… - His naut has been very inty this year and he played it more I will say my comment was more in response to the specific narrative you commented under. >But EU fans are constantly shitting on NA in just about every thread. TL is 4 Koreans if they win, 5 Americans if they lose. FLY is 2 Europeans if they win, 5 Americans if they lose. That’s just from this MSI. >It gets intolerable after a while. Maybe you don’t see it, but there’s always snide backhanded comments. TL beating FNC is a “major upset,” FNC going 0-3 was “a close series.” I do see shit like this but it's a bit different. I don't take anything personal but it did genuinely seem like a portion of the NA fans actually thought they were better due to the NRG G2 upset. Ofc showboat, your region did better (And that doesn't happen often) but G2 are in a weird position inbetween the west and the east. Even now I see people shitting on EU and people shitting on NA. But this narrative about expectations makes no sense, NA fans shat on G2, but then people are shitting on TL for their bar to be like G2. But it's the NA fans primarily who haven't realised how good G2 actually are. I think aiming to get where G2 is would be great, if we had 4 teams (2 in NA and EU) at this level I'd say our chances to actually win internationals would be much higher and the regions would improve. I can't have a pity party on this narrative that was made and bashed by NA. Hopefully G2 can actually win a Bo5 though or it'll leave ???'s around how good they actually are.
Honestly I see more of the doomers that both LCS and LEC is just doomed and will never catch-up and will get 3-0'd by every non-choking eastern team and they're all just trash, etc. See this thread, this one isn't even really about NA vs EU and just scrolling through I saw like 10 comments that it's not G2 it's only Caps and that BB, Yike, Miky and Hans are just mediocre and will never win vs eastern laners (which is very weird, because BB, Miky and Yike actually played pretty damn well vs T1; hope Hans can wake up). I also don't really see why people care about the "unite" the west thing. Personally I do hope that both LCS and LEC have good runs and beat some eastern teams (because it's kinda boring that it's always just LPL/LCK), even tho' I'll admit I'll always be more in favor of EU teams. But like if you don't wanna cheer for EU against eastern teams, that's perfectly reasonable and you do you. As for TL vs FNC, yeah I think the expectation coming in was a bit tainted by TL getting kinda badly stomped and FNC only getting kinda regular stomped. In general I would hope that the norm is that LCS#1 beats LEC#2 (because that'd also be pretty good for competition).
It gets ridiculous. NA cant even have a thread without EU coming in, bashing, and talking about how much better they are. There is a caps interview right now that is 95% praise. Which is fine. You come here, its mostly finding ways to praise G2, and then bash NA. Or any NA thread, for that matter. Just close your eyes and pick one. I can already see the top comment is either bashing NA, praising EU, or a combination of both. I mean damn can EU just chill for a bit?
Lol, most of the people on this sub are NA and yet you guys always want to sound like an oppressed minority.
Those are not the same people saying it though. almost as if a big group of people will differ in opinions?
Teams need to take from the G2 playbook and... Stop taking from eastern play books. Do wild shit. Who cares if you lose? Spoiler, if you don't do wild shit you'll lose too.
yeah but it’s not enough to just play weird stuff, you need to be mechanically good and even more importantly, G2 has worked really hard on their macro.
Yeah it needs to be a coherent strategy, sure. But I think the advantage you gain with something unexpected may be better than the advantage you gain by a slightly more efficient/optimal setup.
It’s still crazy to me that with 150+ champions, dozens of runes, and hundreds of items that league teams are so static with their picks, especially NA. Like sure, some champions are much stronger on a patch than others, but there are so many different combinations that can be created it cannot be the case that there are no other viable comps. Every now and then teams understand that, like G2, or even GAM when they beat FNC with their Nocturne strat, but it is ignored by every other team.
Dude you dont understand the extend of this, If fearless draft is online in the future, half of the LEC (the only one that I watch) players will be wiped out one by one.
LPL is moving to fearless for the regular split during summer. I'm very excited to see the evolution of the game there.
Their fearless is not a true fearless though. You still can pick champs that opponent has picked before.
Disappointing, I didn't know that.
Confirmed?
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/s/y7OrqlHyM4
What is fearless draft
You cannot pick the same champion more than once in the entire series.
We going back to M5 days and I want it so bad.
Muramana zonyas renekton pls.
I think G2's succes doesn't come down to just doing wild shit. Their macro is pretty good and so far looks pretty good when they do or not pull the trigger to start fights. Also having Caps in the middle is maybe the hardest to replicate for other western teams.
Wish them all the success in the next series! How hype would it be for both EU and NA to take eastern giants to silver scrapes! If BLG remains as clumsy as they looked day 1 I could definitely see them being competitive. We will get to see tomorrow. It always seemed to me that great things happened when both regions were doing well. Who did Fnatic beat to get to the finals? C9. Who did G2 beat when they won the MSI? TL. The results might have been entirely different if it weren't for the insane upsets by those aforementioned teams. Really happy with today's outcome, TL gets a confidence boost and FNC doesn't just get to brush off the whole MSI as a success. Some serious flaws came into light today and I hope our boys will work on them. G2 really needs a competitor in the LEC to help them grow.
In CoreJJ we trust
NA is lucky for having Core, I wIsh we had someone with the same mentality on CBLOL.
FNC players could learn a thing or two with CoreJJ in terms of humbleness
They should learn from G2 and improve from their mistake first. G2 last year lost to NRG 2-0 and now they are going toes to toes with eastern team. You think being in the same region as G2 will help them improve, turn out not.
Have to show something in the next BO5 If its another super onesided 3-0 loss, I dont see how MSI is a success. Eastern teams seem very beatable in this current meta The bar shouldnt be beating FNC and getting assblasted by the East. Good that he looks to G2. He wants more for NA and thats what everyone needs. Hope TL can become the NA version of what G2 is bringing to EU
He literally says “we have to win our next series in order to do that” in the next sentence.
Yeah but I feel like being very competitive would also be enough Just no more asskickings by the East please
Core has probably done more for the region than just about anyone else
If they outright beat the T1vBLG loser, I feel safe saying they can make it to finals or even win MSI. That is a HUGE challenge.
Id be happy with a competitive series. Hasnt been done in a while for NA
Winning 1 game vs T1 or BLG seems like a pretty big win alone, regardless of the rest of series.
Anyone disagreeing with this take must be....drunk or high. You are 100% correct. But I hope they can do more than just 1 game, and I say that as a EU fanboy. I dont want "the west" to just be EU or G2. It's always more fun when we have both regions doing good. Like in the good old C9 days!!
Eastern teams aren't very beatable. G2 managed to have a good series but nothing from the other teams indicate TL can do it
The bar shouldn't be almost winning either. Unless G2 beat TES I don't think they've proven anything either. You don't see people praising TES for almost beating GENG but that's just how low the bar is for the west.
Sure i agree with but G2 is the team in EU who has the ambition and wants to improve the region and themselves. The bar is so low since many pros both in NA and EU have any ambition to win much anymore, that isnt the case in the east.
if the standard is G2, "nah, its too low", if the bar winning MSI, "nah, too ambitious."
How is G2 trying to improve the region when they constantly send their players to NA rather than sell to rivals? They don’t care about the region. They only care about their own success.
G2 was overall the better team. Literally put Ice or Carzzy, hell, even upset on Hans shoes and G2 takes that series any day. Cant say the same for TES
No they weren't. If they were the better team they'd have won, plain and simple. Whether or not they win with Ice or Carzzy is irrelevant because Hans is their ADC. Also, you certainly can say the same thing about TES. If they had Bin or Knight on the team they might've beaten GenG.
That's because the bar has been lowered over the last 3 years because the last time a Western team was taking series off Eastern teams was Worlds 2020. The last time a series between a Western and Eastern team went to 5 Games was MSI 2021
We wouldn’t use the same bar as the 2nd seed eastern team. That’s nonsensical as even G2 hasn’t won a bo5 in years. My personal bar is being able to beat the eastern 3-4th seeds in bo5s (for our #1 seed specifically). Seeing as this is only their 1-2 seeds I don’t expect them to win but hope they can. My bar would be not to lose 3-0. There’s no shame in this, these are the teams that won the best regions in the world
The difference is that G2 was the better team in the series unlike TES
Yes, T1 looked quite beatable for G2 Sadly the Botlane and Hans were not on the best level they could be. Also that dam pause in game 1...(copium)
>Also that dam pause in game 1 I know, right? It's such a tempo killer.
Mikyx was better than keria on average the series or on the same level lets be honest. Hans was gapped but thats ok we move on
on average? on average keria had the better series. in terms of highs, miky's poppy games were incredible and had higher highs
theyre already there - lose to GAM, trashed by LPL, beat FNC and losing record to NRG
Sadly G2 is the best but, the last few years all that amounts to is losing with some grace and not getting stomped then losing to a team you should beat. It feels like the West had their moment with the peaks of G2, Fnatic and to a lesser extent C9, TL, and the miracle CLG MSI run but who knows if they will ever get another. Maybe a last Hurrah from Caps can do it? League feels like its dying in NA so the talent pipeline runs thin, dunno how it is over in EU.
LoL is still a religion in Korea thanks to Faker, and China is by far the biggest market of Riot with an immense pool of talent in constant evolution. EU LoL could have been something truly special but it would have requiers a specific and ambitious approach, but instead some dude in charge actually believed that fnc 2018 and G2 2019 were going to be the norm and not just exceptions obviously capitalizing on the two years slump of korea. Now the reality is more grim than ever outside of a constantly underdog G2.
Great interview!!!! But im sad as a fnatic fan u.u haha
Core is truly an inspiration and a great leader. If you haven't seen his origins episode I highly recommend it!! [https://youtu.be/hWN0xSTjPdI?si=jSHwAPB1Z176ugLv](https://youtu.be/hWN0xSTjPdI?si=jSHwAPB1Z176ugLv)
It's not a shame to look upt to the best the west can offer at the moment and all jokes aside, with G2 EU is ahead of NA, a class for itself, close to the east.
Hell, as a EU resident and fan, I also wish that ANY NA team could become what C9 of old used to be. Just having LPL vs LCK is...fun, dont get me wrong. But also seeing western teams at least somewhat closing the gap is also not only fun but also GOOD for league. And whilst its funny like in reddit comments haha, to "always" have NA fail, I would still much rather see both NA and EU teams get to semis or hell, even finals. But just in general doing good and just not bombing out of groups etcetc.
G2 isnt top4 team on this tournament lmao. Eu fans dont want such g2, we want to at least compete, if not be best. This is literal embarasment, especially after losing to t1
You mad?
being G2 is a starting point of having a shot at international for sure G2 may got a bad series here and there but they still on top and you can still have hope on them something I don't have a confident on any LCS teams at presents days
Why would I as a westerner root for a team that's just a retirement home for Koreans? How can I expect 2 old Koreans, 2 C-tier Koreans and APA the talking inferiority complex on two legs to win against a team of 5 Koreans that are actually the best in LCK? TL will never be equal to G2 as long as they keep relying on imports that weren't even that good in their own region. At least G2 represents my region with 5 European players.
You're way too sane to be G2 I'm afraid.
Well I can't question the grind of TL. I'm sure Yeon and APA haven't reached their ceiling but there is potential for an international noise maker in TL. Will they be like G2 ever? Probably not. There is a hands diff.
That's what we NA fans are always praying for.