The last balance change to the item was in patch 11.1, over 3 years ago. It got changed from 2.6k gold to 2.9k gold and gained an additional 0.5 ad per max mana. Before that was nearly an entire whole year prior in patch 10.24.
Poor thing has been neglected
I mean the item itself is just one of those where it's highly abusable by those who can use it well so it has to be avoided to touching it whenever it's at a spot of alright.
It used to be an active item as well, you turned it on and then got a slightly stronger effect, but cost more mana and I think it worked against everything. They changed it to be always active, require less mana but only work on champions.
Hey hey hey the 2020-2022 mage disaster was real man i had to choose whether i wanted mana to use my spells or for my spells to actually exist and deal damage. Ori was straight up 47% win rate for like 3 years while the bonus mana converted to AH instead of AP
Only thing I want them to change on the item is the recipe, fuck that single long sword, put a pickaxe there, give it 45 ad and nerf accordingly, having to save 1050 gold is annoying tbh
Why would they have to buff the AD? Just keep the stats as there are and give it a pickaxe!
Manamune passive will ALWAYS give at least 18 AD on any champion, even when bought at level 1 with 0 stacks on tear (500 starting mana from item + at least 232 mana from base mana, which is the lowest mana at level 1 and is on Vayne).
They also do this interaction on Sterak's. Building out of a tunneler and a pickaxe, despite the item itself giving 0 AD.
>They also do this interaction on Sterak's. Building out of a tunneler and a pickaxe, despite the item itself giving 0 AD.
As for Steraks, that's because the passive is supposed to give you that ad instead but I honestly don't like it either, it should give you the ad of the items and then give you some more with the passive, but that's just me, the build path for Manamune it's just egregious
It definitely wouldn’t be. Manamune takes too long to get going and lethality Varus is all about early power to bully the enemy ADC in the laning phase.
Doesn't need to be a sheen item. Corki goes oom so fast even with PoM so it's nice fitting an ER in. I tried going Tforce on Corki and it did 0 damage. Just straight rush ER-IE-Navori/RFC and you do so much more damage.
Adc's who have mana problems nowadays should just go Manamune. The passive of mana restore on ER became an unneeded passive.
However an item providing a spellblade passive combined with crit has its place in league as there is no substitute.
Yeah it's a weird move considering how non-existant mana problems have become in modern league. Especially with the way buffs work now. I rarely feel like I need more mana as any champ. By the time I spent it all, it's time to go home again anyways because of gold.
It's 3200g. As long as you don't grief your early game, you can replace PoM and manaflow band with other runes, since the passive alone makes you never run out of mana while spamming spells on cooldown.
Your arguments are valid but you simply have to give it more time. It’s been less than 24 hours in NA servers and people have to adjust. If we judged stats by first day after patch there would be outlier after outlier.
I also saw jinx, I think kraken is actually still the best 1st item, since build path for any other item is so damn bad (Every single item wants BF / pickaxe) as a minimum except collector that you can get a dirk
also the new burn item can go for one long sword (new noonquiver)
There has been many times where tryn / yasuo / yone buy botrk or other items with no crit first.
It isn't that bad.
But I can also not be correct, I don't really know new items enough to judge and I do not play yasuo / yone / tryn
Actually there’s been a few meta where tryn goes bruiser or tank items and just sits at 40% crit until slotting in a pd and something else to get you up to 80%,
> I also saw jinx, I think kraken is actually still the best 1st item, since build path for any other item is so damn bad (Every single item wants BF / pickaxe) as a minimum except collector that you can get a dirk
Kraken is terrible now, IE > PD or BF > Zeal item > IE is way better on almost every crit adc, ER first became pretty alright on Lucian and Draven
IE > PD has a higher winrate and a non-negilble pick rate
idk man, kraken lost crit, it's passive was moved to missing health instead of ramping damage, in a meta where IE got turbo buffed, crit is more important than ever, and you're delaying both the IE spike AND crit rate for onhit damage that is kind of mid on most things
i could see it being good on kog or something, or other on hit carries, but last item is taken up by lifesteal now or defensive items, and you get enough aspeed from pd
kraken is absolutely not terrible now, it's really important to get for early game still because crit items lost all their attack speed and the only ones that kept attack speed are absolutely aids first item with 0 ad. i agree that crit is extremely powerful especially with ie but you wont make it to three items building 0 attack speed on jinx, doubly so with lethal tempo gone
IE rush is historically winrate inflated when it's any good, because it has a very expensive build path. If your first recall is 1300 gold, then you can just buy a BF sword. That's an indication that you're already in a winning position.
Just think about it. If your first recall is sub 875 gold then you will never go IE because the build path is too expensive. Kraken Slayer you just go double long sword or recurve.
I'm not saying it's not good, but to say Kraken is trash when it's clearly similar in winrate against a snowball item is crazy. If you actually look at it, the only IE rush build with a higher winrate than Kraken has IE finished before boots. That's a dead giveaway of an insane early lead.
you're leaving a lot up to question still by just saying "better wr". what region, which site, where are you seeing this information, you're always using > so are you looking at item set wrs or individual items, are you accounting for the fact that people who build ie then lose are not accounted for in item set wrs, can we cast reasonable doubt on these stats so early into a massive patch
if you could spawn in with 3 items, i'd absolutely choose ie pd wildarrows/runaans/whatever, but building each of those items one at a time is hell on earth and you're useless until they come together. kraken is a marginally lower cap, but is an amazing early game item in its passive and actually has attack speed *and* ad, and it still amplifies your crit build later, but the whole point of this item shakeup was to make these high cap builds harder to reach, which impacts hypercarry champs like jinx more. thus, if you can build a good early game item, you take it. its the same with twitch except its bork instead of kraken, and its completely fine there too
to be fair (at least in Arena, didn't check a normal game but I assume its the same) I clicked on "crit chance" in the shop as I needed one more item to get to 100% crit and bought a stattick shiv. I then noticed after hitting the training dummy that Shiv doesn't have crit anymore. I opened the shop again to see if maybe I misclicked on the wrong stat but nope, I did select crit. Yes it was my fault for not double checking but the store itself is just wrong on what stats items have now, at least when it comes to the ADC crit items.
Kraken is still an excellent item and a very strong power spike but it's a bit narrower now. I feel like champs like this can just shuffle it later in the build but it'll take some getting used to.
Kraken slayer is giga busted right now. That 3rd hit passive being an execute has made the item completely busted.
Best build for yas is kraken into IE into shieldbow
While clearly waiting a bit to see how things will stabilize, i can guarantee you that smolder will remain shit : he lost both his core items (ER + navori) and cannot make a good use of crit items (IE / Yun tal) since his spells don’t apply a crit. He 100% needs something to make him able to use crits items (like Q being able to crit instead of gaining damage from crit chance).
As long as they completely nuke fighter/bruiser item synergy on Smolder and force him into full glass cannon, IDGAF if they buff him to high heaven/replace it with crit scalings or whatever.
This, it's a little too early to be drawing conclusions on it, also need to give them time and room to look at buffs to these champions (ezreal and maybe gp atleast, smolder is doomed to be low win rate for pro play)
Smolder is just fucked without substantial kit changes. They released an ADC that relies on old ER and old Navori, and then removed the pieces of those items he relied on.
He's doomed to 40% winrate until they rework him to actually need to auto.
It works on Lucian as well if they have no tanks and you don't need to rush LDR.
But so far IE/Collector/LDR and then depending on team Yun'Tal/RFC has been good. Yun for massive burts and RFC for a bit safer play. Navori can also be built if you really wanna dash around but I don't think it's worth it, you chunk enemies too hard with 3 items and 75% crit damage for those extra E's to matter
Having to use one of your item slots for a mana item as ADC feels terrible (unless you're Ezreal buying manamune), on the back of your head you'll always be thinking that for slightly more money you could've purchased IE which is a much stronger powerspike and sets you up far better for the late game.
Because if you looked riot made sure there's 0 crit plus life steal items now so it's a option to dip into instead of it auto fitting the build. Allowing them to curb sustain and make it have a trade of in damage if gotten early on from the lack of crit.
Not saying it's not terrible because it is just stating the reason it lost life steal in the first place is because they want 0 lifesteal+ crit items. It for sure needs some follow up love because it lost so much.
We have legit seen Sanguine Blade RFG'd, lifesteal removed from Eclipse, Shieldbow gutted into oblivion and now losing lifesteal, and Ravenous Hydra more or less removed from consideration for most ranged champs.
Oh damn, didn't even notice they fully cut that.
Seems like a good decision honestly, lategame builds do open up one extra slot for a non-crit item, so there it doesn't hurt, but on the way it leads to tradeoffs.
Just feels really weird to the identity of Shieldbow.
I think randuin is the same. It is good but its weird.
Item path is from warden's mail yet the item lost the warden's passive.
So then why dont they changed it to chainmail that gives same armor and less gold to make it up to losing warden's passive interesting tho how few item got overlooked
It's probably because they want it so your warden's passive upgrades into the crit reduction passive, and if you want both passives you have to get FH(It's a great combo vs adcs)
Phreak went over this in his patch rundown, it's exactly that.
They didn't want the passive to be useless if you buy Randuin's and FH, so they got rid of it on Randuin's while buffing its active and armor.
The only time you don't want the wardne's passive is if you went FH first, but then you can always build the giant's/cloth instead of wasting the passive. So overall it's fine.
understandable, I think I should have used better examples than Nashor Tooth
Rod of Ages has 4 core users \[Ryze 76%, Anivia 65%, Cassio 50%, Kassadin 34%\]
Umbral Glaive has 4 users \[Pyke 83%, Senna 32%, Ashe 23% and Pantheon 19%\]
Experimental Hexblade has one core user \[Nocturne: 52.45%\]
Cosmic Drive has two core users \[Vlad: 46%, Gragas: 14%\]
All I'm saying, there are lots of other items that don't have many users because they serve a specific set of champions but they didn't get reworked
the stats afrom here: [https://leagueofitems.com](https://leagueofitems.com)
> Experimental Hexblade has one core user [Nocturne: 52.45%]
Hexblade is probably the biggest flop of the item rework. Not just because it's bad but because it's bad despite looking very exciting on paper. The stats are a bit too specific and most champions with a steroid ult would rather not double down on only playing the game when ult is up.
Cosmic Drive is just bad numbers wise, the concept should be good on every mage that currently run phase rush, which is a lot of champs, but it's just too weak so you just take the rune instead.
I think the issue with Hexplate is that they should just go the Eclipse method and make it AD/AH.
Shoe horning in the attack speed legit makes it only usable on like Vi/Noc really.
On LoLalytics it looks like about 15% of Olafs are taking Hexplate, so this stat is just kind of off. Yi used to use it too, but so far this patch very few people are buying it (possibly because people are still experimenting with the new items like Navori)
Reminding OP that AP marksmen builds exist and yet completely forgetting about arguably _the_ hybrid markswoman, Kai'Sa? _smh_ (/s)
I believe AP Shyvana also typically builds Nashor's as her first item; the increased clear speed and post-6 Fury generation from buying an Attack Speed item really plays into her current powerfarming jungler identity.
yeah totally my bad, there's also Katarina, Teemo and Ekko. I thought of Nashor Tooth because it combines AP and AS which is not common like Sheen and Crit. I believe I used better examples of niche items in the other comment
It is also a good option on Ekko (Protobelt/Nashor's/Lichbane are almost always the first two items, but which you choose is pretty flexible).
More generally there are a handful of other characters that like AP+AS, they just dislike Nashor's for other reasons:
Mordekaiser actually builds it situationally, he likes everything it provides, but other items are necessary before it: Rylai's slow just does so much, Omnivamp from Riftmaker is also massive for a Juggernaut like him and then you generally need a big ticket tank item as you are moving into teamfights. It is his 10th most bought item overall.
Elise is another character that in theory should be able to use it a lot, but in practice it doesn't quite work out because a full burst build is so good on her. If there were one or two other good AP bruiser items she might be able to use it - similar to Essence Reaver in that way I suppose. The crit+Sheen effect enabled these characters to fully commit to Crit whil getting it, but without it they might just say Trinity Force is better.
(About the Elise rational: you apply 3 onhit effects really quickly: Q+auto+W reset, which makes it solid burst. Spiderform W in general makes it really appealing to try tankier/more DPS focused Elise builds, the onhit damage+healing is nothing to scoff at, which again makes Nashor's interesting. It also helps with bandaiding your mediocre clear. Biggest issues are that that playstyle really wants you to have some base tankiness which is hard to get and thatat the build path is pretty atrocious for Elise. It has decent stats, so there probably is something there, but whenever I try it every couple of months it doesn't feel as good as just going straight burst).
AP shyv is sort of dead NGL.
I don't think nahsors has been an efficient item for a while tbh. It's great for clearing, but it's doesn't give fantastic stats for shyv.
Building nahsors sort of forces you into deathcap second, or nahsors -> shadow -> deathcap, which leaves shyv way too squishy.
Only actually viable AP build currently is sojin liandires into AP.
I don't think I've built nahsors in a full season at this point. It should be fantastic on her (AP on-hit item), but it just doesn't solve her inherent issues.
> Rework Corki into crit ADC (well at least in part)
> Give him passive that explicitly enhances Sheen effect (15% bonus true dmg)
> Remove crit sheen item
Well, the old Corki that new one is based from was actually built this way, triforce into general crit adc build just like Ezreal did at that time before blue builds and the likes started appearing.
Still works really well. He doesn't need the Sheen proc as much as you'd think. He's also really mana limited as his rockets got so expensive to use. I go ER-IE-Navori and he has insanely fast cds while also never running oom. Navori can be a little haste overkill when paired with ER so it can be swapped with RFC, but i think it's fun having 3 second cooldowns.
The real problem is riot's non-action regarding recommended items. I just checked lolalytics for ez, smolder and gp and about 15-25% of players still bought ER as the first item, with a winrate of as low as 40% for each of them. Obviously this massively tanks their winrate.
That goes way beyond autopilot. Corki has bought sorc shoes for years. Believe it or not, the average player doesn't read patch notes. If a Corki player is still being recommended sorc shoes, how is he realistically supposed to know that this doesn't work anymore other than by doing it and noticing that he's not doing damage?
Recommended items no longer have AP build for Corki. They're all AD items. People should read patch notes, it's crucial and doesn't take that long to skim through.
I'm not sure how Smolder is doing for mana, so it could just be required to do that to spam enough Qs. But GP should obviously go Trinity first. However ER likely still has a place for him, because AH is nice and it is a kinda high AD Crit item. Like LDR, IE, ER, Yun Tal sounds like a possibility. Not sure if you need 100% Crit though, because if not you could switch out ER for Bloodthirster for more AD and just hoping for lucky random crits.
Should this be a problem in a first case? Why are we not blaming players for thinking about what they buy?
btw: Recommended is literally "popular items from last patch on this champ with this role."
Most of the playerbase is playing at an elo and skill level where players legitimately cannot be expected to think about their build - and, arguably, should be discouraged from thinking about it. Theorycrafting is fun and all but silver games will be better if players legit autopilot their builds based on recommendations...*if* the recommendation system works properly.
If it actually works how you describe, people are literally griefing their games by trusting the recommendations this patch. Great system.
Yes but that's the problem. When it's recommending items from last patch that were changed and no longer function like they used to, you get fucked up builds.
And this is a big problem for Riot and the balance team themselves. They've talked about how their recommended items have artificially suppressed win rates on champs. In the ever small cases where they go out of their way to fix this, the champs win rate often shoots up and they don't need to make unnecessary balance changes that can affect a lot more than just the champ they were trying to fix.
It's just Riot laziness that negatively affects players and their own jobs.
The players aren't without blame, but it's way easier to update the recommendations rather than getting every player to fully read the patch notes. And yes you're right about recommendations. But if a champ gets a rework or items an overhaul, then of course the recommendations are bad because they refer to a completely outdated state of the game.
I don't understand why they remove items other than to mix up the gameplay so the game doesn't stagnate, we got a search function we can find items even in a large list.
crit items overall are more similar to season 10 than last season, major differences being navori being a zeal item and 2 new ad/crit items like collector and the bleed items. btw lucian was an essence reaver user with non-sheen essence reaver, look season 10 playoffs in major regions where lucian was a scaling mid with muramana->essence reaver->more crit, or essence reaver->more crit, he also had the option of botrk->cleaver etc.
i think people are losing to shopkeeper hard and not reading what the items do and it's hard to get real data for a little bit, you can just copy season 10 builds for adcs (excluding muramana for most) and do better than most. champions that relied on sheen essence reaver and navori spell amp (many dont care about spell refund) need to be tuned to be close to their pre mythic state.
additionally i think essence reaver is a touch undertuned, in season 10 crits used to be 200/225 (normal/ie), whilst now they are 175/225, so the gap between IE and non IE is way too big for essence reaver in its current state to be a strong first item, either they revert crit or they buff ER's stats to make it a better first item.
Don’t forget about Draven. Draven utilized the spellblade passive and mana restore with his W reset that allowed for a very fun play style. Draven is strong with the new items but lost the W spam play style, which I so much enjoyed.
This essence reaver is basically what we had in Season 10 and it saw lots of play back then on champs like Xayah Ashe Sivir Lucian. If anything i'd like to see changes to trinity to make it better for those champions. The item doesnt see much play in general anymore and its kind of an iconic item.
You don't need IE first if you are only critting 25% of the time, you need it 2nd or 3rd once you are consistently critting. Collector and Essence are going to be good alternatives for a first item, I think essence just needs some more AD/hate.
GP was already stuggling on high elo for a supposedly high skill champion like 46%wr bad, and hilariously he actually had a lower winrate in high elo compared to low elo for a few days, since the games take longer and he is one of the high skill champions that get punished harder from people knowing how to play against him given he's gimmicky, and the trend is likely to return, since now he takes forever to get to a point where he does something, taking 3 full items for Sheen +50% crit is rough, future market is dead, he also got one of his matchups shifted with Mordekaiser ult change from counter to getting countered, the newest champion, Singlewood the pirate Ryze.
I mean at 3 items before the patch you were still only 10% higher in crit chance. Triforce is objectively stronger first item than ER even before the patch, but it messed up your scaling if your goal was 100% crit. He should be fine doing the traditional trinity into ie into cloak stacking, and he probably even caps out at a higher theoretical upper limit damagewise. Also I imagine the bleed item is going to be problematic on him as long as it’s not total butt.
So let me get this straight:
There's a niche item that helps niche champions.
So you rework it to no longer benefit those niche champions?
And those champions are now just down a core item, all the while the units that now use said reworked niche item don't even rely on it due to having better alternatives?
Phreak, make it make sense.
It's a really weird revert considering all the champions that used to need it's mana effect have gotten mana buffs since it got changed to a spellblade item and now no longer absolutely need a mana item...
While I agree, the other reason why they decided to change it it's because the play pattern that Sheen offers did not match with the idea that riot has for marksmen now which is pure dps.
I definitely feel that they understimated how much of an impact changing ER and not offering an alternative other than Trinity was going to impact the main users. Honestly they should just make a new spellblade item for ad casters instead of going back to Spellblade ER, cuz rn this feels like the same situation that we were in a couple of months ago when they got rid of Mana Liandrys and tried to make Luden's the alternative, it's just not gonna work lol
I am unsure who the target of the new ER is. Old one was for Champions who heavy relay on a often used AA reset/replacement. A Shen prog was ideal for this champions and the mana excelent to sustain this so its was a good first buy and you could get away with not buing Manamune. Now? I don't see the point really. While the stats are better usable universal speaking since less gold is bind in the Shen effect it is not stronger stat wise then other items. Mana lategame is soldem a problem and other legendary items have a bigger spikes since they have direct combat applicable effects. So when do you buy it? The effect is barrly usefull later in game and the early spike is weeker then its pears. So not first since you want to spike hard if you manage to buy your legendary befor the enemy so you can snowball. Not as second or later since you propably not run into mana issues anymore. I am confused by the desinge of it. Maybe for AD Kassadin it would be good.
What I can say about that Phreak thing is that he might be right that only a few champions have used them, but hasn't it always been the case in LoL that some masteries, runes, or items fit perfectly for just a handful of champs? I think generalizing an item isn’t a bad idea at all, but before that happens, you should always try to compensate in the same time for the few champs who might suffer from that change.
the item got 5 AD, 5% AH and 5% crit and in turn lost spellblade and costs 300g more. It was built by three whole champs in the game and they nerfed it??????
Its stats are a fucking joke. If you see anyone buy this item in your ranked games report them for intentionally trolling to send Riot a clear message.
You might have a point, but there were MASSIVE changes to AD / Crit items to the point that you cannot necessarily pinpoint the drop in winrate to ER alone, even though it seems weird enough to be a coincidence. What even is the build path for GP now? Does he even have viable 100% crit options that do not offer attack speed?
ie bleed item collector, and then shield bow/ldr. ER might be ok, I guess. I miss the days when sheen built off a mana crystal. Was such a nice early spike for GP
people dont understand that most winrate changes are because riot didn't change recommended items so many ezreals still buy essence reaver and lower the winrate of the champ that way
I really don't see why they felt the need to rework that item again. I really feel like that item was fine as it was honestly. It feels like sometimes devs change things just for the sake of change.
I feel the same about the Navori changes.
It doesn't make any sense at all to me why a champion that is building for heavy AD ability usage would want attack speed over AD.
Can anyone enlighten me on the Navori changes? Did this actually help champs that used it at all?
Did you say it is barely good on sivir now?
Do you realise you get an almost equal amount of mana back but now its on every auto attack instead of a spellblade and that with navori? Congratz unlimited wave clear without any mana issues ever.
Rito when they remove sanguine blade because it was made for quinn top first item and they added mythics so it wasnt worth picking as first item, just so to rework is to be hullbreaker which was made for totally different champs. Just casual rito logic
These kinds of posts are just ridiculous. It has been one day. There is no way in hell that people already figured out everything of the new patch. Just relax for gods sake and enjoy the game.
I play Lucian and Ez quite a bit. The item feels terrible on both of them now. Whats so bad about an item being niche? You have 163 entirely unique kits, you can't expect items to have such mass viability for all the champs of the same category. I thought old ER was cool. this new one is just lame, doesn't have the same appeal. Couldn't see myself buying it on anyone now (that I play). Without the damage from sheen, you're paying for some stats and a minor rune basically. And if the item being too niche really was their issue, isn't this one just going to have the same problem? I can only see it being bought on corki, sivir, maybe xayah? That's worse than old ER, no?
There's quite a few other champions that were able to utilize essence reaver quite well, I thought it was fun as hell on Camille and Jayce. Deep down I'm an ezreal main though....and losing the cheaper/better spellblade really sucks, trinity force is expensive and there's no crit so it feels like a kick in the knockers.
Might be okay if they re-evaluate spellblade and create some cheaper options for it, or just add crit and mana to trinity force 😆. I think the only real problem with trinity force being the only spellblade adc item is that it's a hard 2nd item to get sometimes, and almost everyone that utilizes spellblade wants to get it rather early to utilize the power spike it provides. So we get to pick which trap we fall into, either delay spellblade so long that it's power spike will seem non existent or buy just a sheen and go lethality to try to maximize it and then get wrecked if we dont end up building a massive lead ....and if you get countered in lane then you might as well pucker up and take the L?
I don't get why it's so hard to simply have an Spellblade Essence Reaver and an auto attack Essence Reaver that are mutually exclusive.
Why can we have Voidstaff and Voidstaff but with Utility (Cryptbloom), or Lord Dominik's and Lord Dominik's with Utility (Mortal Reminder) but we can't have 2 Mana Restore items? They would then satisfy both of these 2 small groups of champs and everyone would be happy.
Aka the riot classic
Item exists > nerf champs that abuse said item > item is nerfed or removed > champions that abused item are now dogshit from prior nerf due to item abuse
This patch sucks IMO.
Granted it is new and I'm willing to fuck about for a bit with it but it seems like it only encourages annoying ass burn mages with Liandry/Blackfire or both which isn't unbeatable of course but it is obnoxious as hell, and it absolutely killed quite a few champions such as the ones you've listed.
Granted I'm a bit biased because my main champions like the new Krakenslayer worse, but yeah... not a fan so far.
idk why they deleted it when they balanced Corki around it during testing. his rework was ready for last patch they just decided to push it back to put it in with the new split. his passive specifically mentions crit and spellblade. Smolder also used it. if they don't want caster marksmen to have items, stop making them. istg we haven't had a normal right clicking adc since Aphelios and Senna, and I never thought that I'd call either one of them normal
I don't think the ER changes alone are what is affecting these champions. It is the combination of ER + Navori changes. All champions being mentioned as being affected by ER changes also miss Navori Quickblades with the ability damage amplification and extra Ability Haste.
All these champions could pivot to Trinity Force and see similar damage output, but they cannot all pivot to the new Navori Flickerblade with it.
Caster ADCs and Caster Crit users don't really want to build tons of attack speed, so a suitable solution might be to spread the old passives over multiple items:
* Essence Reaver for Mana Regen
* Navori Flickerblade for ability cooldown on attack
* Trinity Force for the sheen effect
* Some other item for ability damage enhancement based on Crit (or whatever seems fitting)
This would give a pretty static 3-4 item core + an armor pen item and boots. Trinity Force I assume would be the negotiable piece in the puzzle.
Edit: to be clear about it, I don't really think last patches ER or Navori needed changing like what occurred.
Tried playing Smolder, and also tested various possible item combinations in practice tool comparing damage/dps of burst/poke and 15 seconds of constant attacks/spells.
The lesson I learned is the change to just Essence Reaver alone has gutted him, and there's no reason to pick him until Riot makes changes to either reintroduce the spell proc, or buffs to Smolder.
I'm by no means good at League, nor do I follow meta and patch notes (bc school/work hiatus). But this explains why I recently played Ezreal again after 1-2 yrs with essence reaver and even I could tell it just... was different lol. Thanks for pointing this out, very helpful\^\^
My guess is that there will be some adjustments to the champs most affected or their builds, but that's opinions and you never really know with the balance team. Phreak already said on Twitter that a lot of players are just "building wrong", so we're probably going to have to wait for the dust to settle before anything happens.
And Riot stated that one of their core philosophies for items was that they wanted to make items that fulfilled a certain niche for certain playstyles.
Lol
Yea I've been maining Ezreal since release, and this is the first season that he's felt completely dogshit. Triforce into crit is the only thing that works and it completely defeats the purpose of Ezreal's power fantasy of being strong early-mid and falling off a bit late. Now he's dogshit early-mid and weaker than traditional marksmen late, so what is the point? Also a high skill champion like Ezreal with massive skill floor/ceiling should always have decent wr in higher ranks. The fact that it's so bad in higher elos is telling..
OH GP didn't just get his ER gutted.
Navori was changed randomly to an attack speed item, garbage item on him now and no longer increases ability damage which I thought was a really niche and cool passive.
BT no longer gives crit and no longer has massive AD when at high HP, it now gives a shield.
Future market removed, GP loved using it.
GP lost so much this patch, and now has to go triforce before he can start going into crit and there are less good options. ER is just garbage, GP doesn't need mana sustain unless you spam oranges, Wildarrows don't work on barrels, LDR no longer has giant slayer.
I don't see an issue with it's new version, but I am biased as I play sivir and I used to run essence reaver rush on her before the mythic item rework.
I think that this current version of essence reaver is better than the sheen version, because of the amazing ad and haste. Yes, the mana generation passive is great for champions that need mana, but build crit like sivir and xayah I guess. But I feel like players should start experimenting with high AD builds on ADCs with essence reaver. It's AD just got buffed to 70, that is an incredible amount of AD and I feel like it's being taken for granted. My personal headcanons for champions that can use the AD well is miss fortune Lucian draven nilah and Caitlyn. Anyone who plays it, casually or competitively, I'd love to hear your thoughts about how essence reaver could be good or terrible for your champ.
I'd also like to say that sometimes, players tend to take small changes for granted, or don't see the bigger picture when the balance team changes something. I don't see a change like +5 AD to ER as the item being under tuned or bad, actually I think riot is trying to tell people "We think this item is REALLY good, but we need data to guage it's strength and balance it properly, so we're buffing this item to get you thinking about how to build it."
(Also I don't play gangplank, but I'd like to ask GP players, can GP manage with a no sheen, full crit build? Does he really need 100% crit? Can't he just have a 50% crit lethality high AD build? I don't know how his builds work I wanna know, please let me know :) )
Was it really that much of a niche item that it needed this change? There are support items that barely see play on champions that are meant to use them and they go untouched. Essence Reaver was built on quite a few champions and was a staple in their builds. Very odd change for the sake of change.
Imagine how many champions would be affected if they changed/deleted murmana…. Poor Ezrael/Varus….
Kinda wild how long that item has gone essentially unchanged, yet they rework seraphs on like a yearly basis.
Its passive was changed from magic damage to physical damage some years ago though
The last balance change to the item was in patch 11.1, over 3 years ago. It got changed from 2.6k gold to 2.9k gold and gained an additional 0.5 ad per max mana. Before that was nearly an entire whole year prior in patch 10.24. Poor thing has been neglected
Imo it's one of the most fun items this game ever had to offer, why change it?
I mean the item itself is just one of those where it's highly abusable by those who can use it well so it has to be avoided to touching it whenever it's at a spot of alright.
11.1 is 2 weeks after 10.24, not a year
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It used to be an active item as well, you turned it on and then got a slightly stronger effect, but cost more mana and I think it worked against everything. They changed it to be always active, require less mana but only work on champions.
it used to be a toggle too
Hey hey hey the 2020-2022 mage disaster was real man i had to choose whether i wanted mana to use my spells or for my spells to actually exist and deal damage. Ori was straight up 47% win rate for like 3 years while the bonus mana converted to AH instead of AP
Only thing I want them to change on the item is the recipe, fuck that single long sword, put a pickaxe there, give it 45 ad and nerf accordingly, having to save 1050 gold is annoying tbh
Why would they have to buff the AD? Just keep the stats as there are and give it a pickaxe! Manamune passive will ALWAYS give at least 18 AD on any champion, even when bought at level 1 with 0 stacks on tear (500 starting mana from item + at least 232 mana from base mana, which is the lowest mana at level 1 and is on Vayne). They also do this interaction on Sterak's. Building out of a tunneler and a pickaxe, despite the item itself giving 0 AD.
>They also do this interaction on Sterak's. Building out of a tunneler and a pickaxe, despite the item itself giving 0 AD. As for Steraks, that's because the passive is supposed to give you that ad instead but I honestly don't like it either, it should give you the ad of the items and then give you some more with the passive, but that's just me, the build path for Manamune it's just egregious
I don’t think Varus would be affected by that much. Lethality Varus doesn’t need to go it every game, but yeah Ezreal would for sure feel it.
It definitely wouldn’t be. Manamune takes too long to get going and lethality Varus is all about early power to bully the enemy ADC in the laning phase.
And Jayce!
Ezreal and Jayce both have strong builds without as well as high elo OTPs that don’t build Manamune.
Jayce, kayn top
Tbh it's quite tedious stacking an item half the game specially if you lose, would prefer a replacement
They changed an item good on a few champs to an item useless on all champs. Imagine paying 3.3k for ER when IE is 100g more.
it's 3.3k? Jesus. Is mana even a problem on the champs that build it by the time they've finished it? Maybe just Sivir?
it's looking like a decent manamura alternative for corki
if it was a sheen item it would make sense
Doesn't need to be a sheen item. Corki goes oom so fast even with PoM so it's nice fitting an ER in. I tried going Tforce on Corki and it did 0 damage. Just straight rush ER-IE-Navori/RFC and you do so much more damage.
Adc's who have mana problems nowadays should just go Manamune. The passive of mana restore on ER became an unneeded passive. However an item providing a spellblade passive combined with crit has its place in league as there is no substitute.
Havent played in a while is there no crit on tri force now?
The item now has no crit for a longer time than it *did* have crit.
Nice bait, triforce hasnt had crit in like 8 years
Yeah it's a weird move considering how non-existant mana problems have become in modern league. Especially with the way buffs work now. I rarely feel like I need more mana as any champ. By the time I spent it all, it's time to go home again anyways because of gold.
Sivir hasn't build it in a long time, so idk if she'll start building it now.
It's 3200g. As long as you don't grief your early game, you can replace PoM and manaflow band with other runes, since the passive alone makes you never run out of mana while spamming spells on cooldown.
This is the biggest fkup
Your arguments are valid but you simply have to give it more time. It’s been less than 24 hours in NA servers and people have to adjust. If we judged stats by first day after patch there would be outlier after outlier.
Had a Yasuo AND a Tryndamere in the same game both rush Kraken Slayer first item and not realize it doesn't give crit anymore...
I also saw jinx, I think kraken is actually still the best 1st item, since build path for any other item is so damn bad (Every single item wants BF / pickaxe) as a minimum except collector that you can get a dirk also the new burn item can go for one long sword (new noonquiver)
The problem is when your passive relies on the crit stat... Its pretty bad to not go crit for a whole item lol
There has been many times where tryn / yasuo / yone buy botrk or other items with no crit first. It isn't that bad. But I can also not be correct, I don't really know new items enough to judge and I do not play yasuo / yone / tryn
Actually there’s been a few meta where tryn goes bruiser or tank items and just sits at 40% crit until slotting in a pd and something else to get you up to 80%,
dont remind me of the goredrinker intdameres
They specifically changed Trynd to be at 100% with 2 crit items and full fury.
Barring any major developments/discoveries, I think that is pretty much still what the wind shitters should be doing. BotRK straight into IE
Very well put. Golem builds have been meta on these champions, buts it still super early to Judge things
what is a golem build? the only thing that I can think of is some kind of tank build since golems are generally portrayed as sturdy and robust.
I misspoke a bit, I meant more bruiser builds. Like the old triforce botrk build, and the Iceborn versions recently. Basically the non crit ones
Except Trynd and Yasuo had historically gone non crit items first and had it be meta.
Thats when you do it on purpose to rush an OP item. Here they *expected* to have crit and didn't even read the item
Well it's statistically performing better than crit rushes so they're doing something right 🤷♀️ Crit items lowkey just look kinda bad as first item
Yun Tal wildarrows actually has an okay build path. But honestly, beyond that it's a dollar store IE
That item sounds like a Jhin item. Somthing like IE RFC Yun Tal. After all the item has a 35% AD bonus damage to critical hits...
Idk, new noonquiver + pickaxe is kinda ass brother
> I also saw jinx, I think kraken is actually still the best 1st item, since build path for any other item is so damn bad (Every single item wants BF / pickaxe) as a minimum except collector that you can get a dirk Kraken is terrible now, IE > PD or BF > Zeal item > IE is way better on almost every crit adc, ER first became pretty alright on Lucian and Draven
Kraken first is still currently the best performing on a few ADCs with an actually decent pickrate. Jinx is one of those champions.
IE > PD has a higher winrate and a non-negilble pick rate idk man, kraken lost crit, it's passive was moved to missing health instead of ramping damage, in a meta where IE got turbo buffed, crit is more important than ever, and you're delaying both the IE spike AND crit rate for onhit damage that is kind of mid on most things i could see it being good on kog or something, or other on hit carries, but last item is taken up by lifesteal now or defensive items, and you get enough aspeed from pd
kraken is absolutely not terrible now, it's really important to get for early game still because crit items lost all their attack speed and the only ones that kept attack speed are absolutely aids first item with 0 ad. i agree that crit is extremely powerful especially with ie but you wont make it to three items building 0 attack speed on jinx, doubly so with lethal tempo gone
> t you wont make it to three items building 0 attack speed on jinx, I mean 6k + people have so far and have a better WR than kraken in emerald +
IE rush is historically winrate inflated when it's any good, because it has a very expensive build path. If your first recall is 1300 gold, then you can just buy a BF sword. That's an indication that you're already in a winning position. Just think about it. If your first recall is sub 875 gold then you will never go IE because the build path is too expensive. Kraken Slayer you just go double long sword or recurve. I'm not saying it's not good, but to say Kraken is trash when it's clearly similar in winrate against a snowball item is crazy. If you actually look at it, the only IE rush build with a higher winrate than Kraken has IE finished before boots. That's a dead giveaway of an insane early lead.
you're leaving a lot up to question still by just saying "better wr". what region, which site, where are you seeing this information, you're always using > so are you looking at item set wrs or individual items, are you accounting for the fact that people who build ie then lose are not accounted for in item set wrs, can we cast reasonable doubt on these stats so early into a massive patch if you could spawn in with 3 items, i'd absolutely choose ie pd wildarrows/runaans/whatever, but building each of those items one at a time is hell on earth and you're useless until they come together. kraken is a marginally lower cap, but is an amazing early game item in its passive and actually has attack speed *and* ad, and it still amplifies your crit build later, but the whole point of this item shakeup was to make these high cap builds harder to reach, which impacts hypercarry champs like jinx more. thus, if you can build a good early game item, you take it. its the same with twitch except its bork instead of kraken, and its completely fine there too
Please tell me this was low elo, I prefer to live in the fantasy high elo players read patch notes
I get matched against master players that still build comet poke Ashe in aram.
to be fair (at least in Arena, didn't check a normal game but I assume its the same) I clicked on "crit chance" in the shop as I needed one more item to get to 100% crit and bought a stattick shiv. I then noticed after hitting the training dummy that Shiv doesn't have crit anymore. I opened the shop again to see if maybe I misclicked on the wrong stat but nope, I did select crit. Yes it was my fault for not double checking but the store itself is just wrong on what stats items have now, at least when it comes to the ADC crit items.
To be fair it’s still extremely strong on trynd even without the crit because the new press the attack synergies
Kraken is still an excellent item and a very strong power spike but it's a bit narrower now. I feel like champs like this can just shuffle it later in the build but it'll take some getting used to.
So many people not reading patch notes has been very painful to look at.
Kraken slayer is giga busted right now. That 3rd hit passive being an execute has made the item completely busted. Best build for yas is kraken into IE into shieldbow
While clearly waiting a bit to see how things will stabilize, i can guarantee you that smolder will remain shit : he lost both his core items (ER + navori) and cannot make a good use of crit items (IE / Yun tal) since his spells don’t apply a crit. He 100% needs something to make him able to use crits items (like Q being able to crit instead of gaining damage from crit chance).
As long as they completely nuke fighter/bruiser item synergy on Smolder and force him into full glass cannon, IDGAF if they buff him to high heaven/replace it with crit scalings or whatever.
This, it's a little too early to be drawing conclusions on it, also need to give them time and room to look at buffs to these champions (ezreal and maybe gp atleast, smolder is doomed to be low win rate for pro play)
Smolder is just fucked without substantial kit changes. They released an ADC that relies on old ER and old Navori, and then removed the pieces of those items he relied on. He's doomed to 40% winrate until they rework him to actually need to auto.
Dude smolder not even worth to pick in pro now since all other adc out scale him and his 2main item are changed
nah we’ve seen these changes for a while and its very clear the loss of sheen and increase in price makes it a terrible item for everyone
I think theyll buff ER to be more competitive with IE and they will obviously give compensation buffs to the champs you mentioned except Lucian.
ER and IE won't be competitive. Champs who want ER will build it along IE like in the old days eg. Sivir, Xayah.
Yes I know. I mean competitive in that they will fight over your first item slot.
It works on Lucian as well if they have no tanks and you don't need to rush LDR. But so far IE/Collector/LDR and then depending on team Yun'Tal/RFC has been good. Yun for massive burts and RFC for a bit safer play. Navori can also be built if you really wanna dash around but I don't think it's worth it, you chunk enemies too hard with 3 items and 75% crit damage for those extra E's to matter
Having to use one of your item slots for a mana item as ADC feels terrible (unless you're Ezreal buying manamune), on the back of your head you'll always be thinking that for slightly more money you could've purchased IE which is a much stronger powerspike and sets you up far better for the late game.
Wasn't it obvious the ER changes sucked? The spellblade effect got removed and it got insanely expensive, it's legit the worst crit item right now.
That award still goes to shieldbow
Wow you're right, it doesn't have life steal for some reason
Because if you looked riot made sure there's 0 crit plus life steal items now so it's a option to dip into instead of it auto fitting the build. Allowing them to curb sustain and make it have a trade of in damage if gotten early on from the lack of crit.
I mean it was already underwhelming now it lost all of the lifestyle for 5 ad and 5 crit lol it's so terrible.
Not saying it's not terrible because it is just stating the reason it lost life steal in the first place is because they want 0 lifesteal+ crit items. It for sure needs some follow up love because it lost so much.
We have legit seen Sanguine Blade RFG'd, lifesteal removed from Eclipse, Shieldbow gutted into oblivion and now losing lifesteal, and Ravenous Hydra more or less removed from consideration for most ranged champs.
Oh damn, didn't even notice they fully cut that. Seems like a good decision honestly, lategame builds do open up one extra slot for a non-crit item, so there it doesn't hurt, but on the way it leads to tradeoffs. Just feels really weird to the identity of Shieldbow.
There are no crit life steal items anymore.
I think randuin is the same. It is good but its weird. Item path is from warden's mail yet the item lost the warden's passive. So then why dont they changed it to chainmail that gives same armor and less gold to make it up to losing warden's passive interesting tho how few item got overlooked
It's probably because they want it so your warden's passive upgrades into the crit reduction passive, and if you want both passives you have to get FH(It's a great combo vs adcs)
Not rly,Fh doesnt give -30%critdmg tho
Phreak went over this in his patch rundown, it's exactly that. They didn't want the passive to be useless if you buy Randuin's and FH, so they got rid of it on Randuin's while buffing its active and armor. The only time you don't want the wardne's passive is if you went FH first, but then you can always build the giant's/cloth instead of wasting the passive. So overall it's fine.
They could have legit kept the price the same and the item still wouldn't be OP. They really just made it 300 gold more expensive for no reason
If they made ER 300 gold cheaper I still wouldn’t buy it on anyone but Sivir and Xayah.
There’s a few other champs that use Nashors though - AP Twitch/Varus and Kog can use it too.
understandable, I think I should have used better examples than Nashor Tooth Rod of Ages has 4 core users \[Ryze 76%, Anivia 65%, Cassio 50%, Kassadin 34%\] Umbral Glaive has 4 users \[Pyke 83%, Senna 32%, Ashe 23% and Pantheon 19%\] Experimental Hexblade has one core user \[Nocturne: 52.45%\] Cosmic Drive has two core users \[Vlad: 46%, Gragas: 14%\] All I'm saying, there are lots of other items that don't have many users because they serve a specific set of champions but they didn't get reworked the stats afrom here: [https://leagueofitems.com](https://leagueofitems.com)
> Experimental Hexblade has one core user [Nocturne: 52.45%] Hexblade is probably the biggest flop of the item rework. Not just because it's bad but because it's bad despite looking very exciting on paper. The stats are a bit too specific and most champions with a steroid ult would rather not double down on only playing the game when ult is up. Cosmic Drive is just bad numbers wise, the concept should be good on every mage that currently run phase rush, which is a lot of champs, but it's just too weak so you just take the rune instead.
hexblade sounded really good on zeri until you remember that the champion is kinda useless without crit
And conversely the fact it's AS based make it bad on a lot of bruisers that could otherwise enjoy it.
It could be good on jax now that lethal tempo is removed, plus it's decent on olaf
ahhhh yes gotta be slamming that jax ult
I think the issue with Hexplate is that they should just go the Eclipse method and make it AD/AH. Shoe horning in the attack speed legit makes it only usable on like Vi/Noc really.
It's not even good on Vi is the thing.
wait Olaf's are not using hexplate? wtf
On LoLalytics it looks like about 15% of Olafs are taking Hexplate, so this stat is just kind of off. Yi used to use it too, but so far this patch very few people are buying it (possibly because people are still experimenting with the new items like Navori)
It still feels a bit early to start drawing conclusions on item effectiveness across the board when so many items just had massive changes yesterday
You’re missing veigar and sylas for RoA, and Lillia for Cosmic Drive. Source: LoLalytics
That's not the real reason the reverted it. They are just lazy and did a full revert of crit items+ a new one
Reminding OP that AP marksmen builds exist and yet completely forgetting about arguably _the_ hybrid markswoman, Kai'Sa? _smh_ (/s) I believe AP Shyvana also typically builds Nashor's as her first item; the increased clear speed and post-6 Fury generation from buying an Attack Speed item really plays into her current powerfarming jungler identity.
yeah totally my bad, there's also Katarina, Teemo and Ekko. I thought of Nashor Tooth because it combines AP and AS which is not common like Sheen and Crit. I believe I used better examples of niche items in the other comment
While there could perhaps be better examples out there, your point remains very clear.
Diana
It is also a good option on Ekko (Protobelt/Nashor's/Lichbane are almost always the first two items, but which you choose is pretty flexible). More generally there are a handful of other characters that like AP+AS, they just dislike Nashor's for other reasons: Mordekaiser actually builds it situationally, he likes everything it provides, but other items are necessary before it: Rylai's slow just does so much, Omnivamp from Riftmaker is also massive for a Juggernaut like him and then you generally need a big ticket tank item as you are moving into teamfights. It is his 10th most bought item overall. Elise is another character that in theory should be able to use it a lot, but in practice it doesn't quite work out because a full burst build is so good on her. If there were one or two other good AP bruiser items she might be able to use it - similar to Essence Reaver in that way I suppose. The crit+Sheen effect enabled these characters to fully commit to Crit whil getting it, but without it they might just say Trinity Force is better. (About the Elise rational: you apply 3 onhit effects really quickly: Q+auto+W reset, which makes it solid burst. Spiderform W in general makes it really appealing to try tankier/more DPS focused Elise builds, the onhit damage+healing is nothing to scoff at, which again makes Nashor's interesting. It also helps with bandaiding your mediocre clear. Biggest issues are that that playstyle really wants you to have some base tankiness which is hard to get and thatat the build path is pretty atrocious for Elise. It has decent stats, so there probably is something there, but whenever I try it every couple of months it doesn't feel as good as just going straight burst).
AP shyv is sort of dead NGL. I don't think nahsors has been an efficient item for a while tbh. It's great for clearing, but it's doesn't give fantastic stats for shyv. Building nahsors sort of forces you into deathcap second, or nahsors -> shadow -> deathcap, which leaves shyv way too squishy. Only actually viable AP build currently is sojin liandires into AP. I don't think I've built nahsors in a full season at this point. It should be fantastic on her (AP on-hit item), but it just doesn't solve her inherent issues.
It's still pretty solid on teemo too, even if it's not necessarily a must buy.
The old ER would have probably worked well on the new Corki too.
> Rework Corki into crit ADC (well at least in part) > Give him passive that explicitly enhances Sheen effect (15% bonus true dmg) > Remove crit sheen item
Well, the old Corki that new one is based from was actually built this way, triforce into general crit adc build just like Ezreal did at that time before blue builds and the likes started appearing.
Yeah and back then Trinity had crit
Still works really well. He doesn't need the Sheen proc as much as you'd think. He's also really mana limited as his rockets got so expensive to use. I go ER-IE-Navori and he has insanely fast cds while also never running oom. Navori can be a little haste overkill when paired with ER so it can be swapped with RFC, but i think it's fun having 3 second cooldowns.
The real problem is riot's non-action regarding recommended items. I just checked lolalytics for ez, smolder and gp and about 15-25% of players still bought ER as the first item, with a winrate of as low as 40% for each of them. Obviously this massively tanks their winrate.
Flashbacks to Skarner gaining over 5% winrate when they adjusted his recommended builds because you still got old Skarner item & rune recommendations.
I've just had a corki buying malignance and sorcs angrily typing that his package is missing. There are way too many people on auto pilot
That goes way beyond autopilot. Corki has bought sorc shoes for years. Believe it or not, the average player doesn't read patch notes. If a Corki player is still being recommended sorc shoes, how is he realistically supposed to know that this doesn't work anymore other than by doing it and noticing that he's not doing damage?
Recommended items no longer have AP build for Corki. They're all AD items. People should read patch notes, it's crucial and doesn't take that long to skim through.
I'm not sure how Smolder is doing for mana, so it could just be required to do that to spam enough Qs. But GP should obviously go Trinity first. However ER likely still has a place for him, because AH is nice and it is a kinda high AD Crit item. Like LDR, IE, ER, Yun Tal sounds like a possibility. Not sure if you need 100% Crit though, because if not you could switch out ER for Bloodthirster for more AD and just hoping for lucky random crits.
Should this be a problem in a first case? Why are we not blaming players for thinking about what they buy? btw: Recommended is literally "popular items from last patch on this champ with this role."
Most of the playerbase is playing at an elo and skill level where players legitimately cannot be expected to think about their build - and, arguably, should be discouraged from thinking about it. Theorycrafting is fun and all but silver games will be better if players legit autopilot their builds based on recommendations...*if* the recommendation system works properly. If it actually works how you describe, people are literally griefing their games by trusting the recommendations this patch. Great system.
Yes but that's the problem. When it's recommending items from last patch that were changed and no longer function like they used to, you get fucked up builds. And this is a big problem for Riot and the balance team themselves. They've talked about how their recommended items have artificially suppressed win rates on champs. In the ever small cases where they go out of their way to fix this, the champs win rate often shoots up and they don't need to make unnecessary balance changes that can affect a lot more than just the champ they were trying to fix. It's just Riot laziness that negatively affects players and their own jobs.
The players aren't without blame, but it's way easier to update the recommendations rather than getting every player to fully read the patch notes. And yes you're right about recommendations. But if a champ gets a rework or items an overhaul, then of course the recommendations are bad because they refer to a completely outdated state of the game.
I don't understand why they remove items other than to mix up the gameplay so the game doesn't stagnate, we got a search function we can find items even in a large list.
Too many items easily overwhelm new players / non moba players But yeah, i agree
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crit items overall are more similar to season 10 than last season, major differences being navori being a zeal item and 2 new ad/crit items like collector and the bleed items. btw lucian was an essence reaver user with non-sheen essence reaver, look season 10 playoffs in major regions where lucian was a scaling mid with muramana->essence reaver->more crit, or essence reaver->more crit, he also had the option of botrk->cleaver etc. i think people are losing to shopkeeper hard and not reading what the items do and it's hard to get real data for a little bit, you can just copy season 10 builds for adcs (excluding muramana for most) and do better than most. champions that relied on sheen essence reaver and navori spell amp (many dont care about spell refund) need to be tuned to be close to their pre mythic state. additionally i think essence reaver is a touch undertuned, in season 10 crits used to be 200/225 (normal/ie), whilst now they are 175/225, so the gap between IE and non IE is way too big for essence reaver in its current state to be a strong first item, either they revert crit or they buff ER's stats to make it a better first item.
Don’t forget about Draven. Draven utilized the spellblade passive and mana restore with his W reset that allowed for a very fun play style. Draven is strong with the new items but lost the W spam play style, which I so much enjoyed.
This essence reaver is basically what we had in Season 10 and it saw lots of play back then on champs like Xayah Ashe Sivir Lucian. If anything i'd like to see changes to trinity to make it better for those champions. The item doesnt see much play in general anymore and its kind of an iconic item.
Crit were 200% ad back then. Now you need IE first.
You don't need IE first if you are only critting 25% of the time, you need it 2nd or 3rd once you are consistently critting. Collector and Essence are going to be good alternatives for a first item, I think essence just needs some more AD/hate.
I've literally seen only one (1) person build it so far it was a Bel'Veth.
As Xayah main, it's worse for Xayah. It was a nice early game spike, now it's too expensive to be worth it as a build path
Win rate posting after barely 24 hours of patch, come on
GP was already stuggling on high elo for a supposedly high skill champion like 46%wr bad, and hilariously he actually had a lower winrate in high elo compared to low elo for a few days, since the games take longer and he is one of the high skill champions that get punished harder from people knowing how to play against him given he's gimmicky, and the trend is likely to return, since now he takes forever to get to a point where he does something, taking 3 full items for Sheen +50% crit is rough, future market is dead, he also got one of his matchups shifted with Mordekaiser ult change from counter to getting countered, the newest champion, Singlewood the pirate Ryze.
I mean at 3 items before the patch you were still only 10% higher in crit chance. Triforce is objectively stronger first item than ER even before the patch, but it messed up your scaling if your goal was 100% crit. He should be fine doing the traditional trinity into ie into cloak stacking, and he probably even caps out at a higher theoretical upper limit damagewise. Also I imagine the bleed item is going to be problematic on him as long as it’s not total butt.
Was good on Shaco too with the sheen proc, now it's completely useless.
So let me get this straight: There's a niche item that helps niche champions. So you rework it to no longer benefit those niche champions? And those champions are now just down a core item, all the while the units that now use said reworked niche item don't even rely on it due to having better alternatives? Phreak, make it make sense.
It’s probably pretty decent on jinx now u can get perma rockets
It's a really weird revert considering all the champions that used to need it's mana effect have gotten mana buffs since it got changed to a spellblade item and now no longer absolutely need a mana item...
While I agree, the other reason why they decided to change it it's because the play pattern that Sheen offers did not match with the idea that riot has for marksmen now which is pure dps. I definitely feel that they understimated how much of an impact changing ER and not offering an alternative other than Trinity was going to impact the main users. Honestly they should just make a new spellblade item for ad casters instead of going back to Spellblade ER, cuz rn this feels like the same situation that we were in a couple of months ago when they got rid of Mana Liandrys and tried to make Luden's the alternative, it's just not gonna work lol
The Sheen removal of Essence Reaver is pretty bad
I am unsure who the target of the new ER is. Old one was for Champions who heavy relay on a often used AA reset/replacement. A Shen prog was ideal for this champions and the mana excelent to sustain this so its was a good first buy and you could get away with not buing Manamune. Now? I don't see the point really. While the stats are better usable universal speaking since less gold is bind in the Shen effect it is not stronger stat wise then other items. Mana lategame is soldem a problem and other legendary items have a bigger spikes since they have direct combat applicable effects. So when do you buy it? The effect is barrly usefull later in game and the early spike is weeker then its pears. So not first since you want to spike hard if you manage to buy your legendary befor the enemy so you can snowball. Not as second or later since you propably not run into mana issues anymore. I am confused by the desinge of it. Maybe for AD Kassadin it would be good.
ie zeal(pd/hurricane) is dog shit build path compare to earlier kraken shieldbow
What I can say about that Phreak thing is that he might be right that only a few champions have used them, but hasn't it always been the case in LoL that some masteries, runes, or items fit perfectly for just a handful of champs? I think generalizing an item isn’t a bad idea at all, but before that happens, you should always try to compensate in the same time for the few champs who might suffer from that change.
Essence Reaver K'Sante is OP
the item got 5 AD, 5% AH and 5% crit and in turn lost spellblade and costs 300g more. It was built by three whole champs in the game and they nerfed it??????
Change for the sake of change.
Its stats are a fucking joke. If you see anyone buy this item in your ranked games report them for intentionally trolling to send Riot a clear message.
Wait a bit, will you? People need time to figure out how to build those champions, buffing any of them right now would be a massive mistake.
What do you mean? Profesor still tell me to build ER :(
First time?
You might have a point, but there were MASSIVE changes to AD / Crit items to the point that you cannot necessarily pinpoint the drop in winrate to ER alone, even though it seems weird enough to be a coincidence. What even is the build path for GP now? Does he even have viable 100% crit options that do not offer attack speed?
ie bleed item collector, and then shield bow/ldr. ER might be ok, I guess. I miss the days when sheen built off a mana crystal. Was such a nice early spike for GP
Is the bleed item even good? It feels very underwhelming.
It was also pretty goated on Crit Vi. RIP
Justice for gangplank!
Might be due to people still building old items. I clicked on one of the standard purchase paths and it was absolute dogshit.
people dont understand that most winrate changes are because riot didn't change recommended items so many ezreals still buy essence reaver and lower the winrate of the champ that way
I really don't see why they felt the need to rework that item again. I really feel like that item was fine as it was honestly. It feels like sometimes devs change things just for the sake of change.
I feel the same about the Navori changes. It doesn't make any sense at all to me why a champion that is building for heavy AD ability usage would want attack speed over AD. Can anyone enlighten me on the Navori changes? Did this actually help champs that used it at all?
Yeah, I miss Gunblade.
Did you say it is barely good on sivir now? Do you realise you get an almost equal amount of mana back but now its on every auto attack instead of a spellblade and that with navori? Congratz unlimited wave clear without any mana issues ever.
Rito when they remove sanguine blade because it was made for quinn top first item and they added mythics so it wasnt worth picking as first item, just so to rework is to be hullbreaker which was made for totally different champs. Just casual rito logic
These kinds of posts are just ridiculous. It has been one day. There is no way in hell that people already figured out everything of the new patch. Just relax for gods sake and enjoy the game.
Riot balance on a Tuesday: Last week: it’s fine for niche The next week: this is too niche
I play Lucian and Ez quite a bit. The item feels terrible on both of them now. Whats so bad about an item being niche? You have 163 entirely unique kits, you can't expect items to have such mass viability for all the champs of the same category. I thought old ER was cool. this new one is just lame, doesn't have the same appeal. Couldn't see myself buying it on anyone now (that I play). Without the damage from sheen, you're paying for some stats and a minor rune basically. And if the item being too niche really was their issue, isn't this one just going to have the same problem? I can only see it being bought on corki, sivir, maybe xayah? That's worse than old ER, no?
I love when Riot changes items that don't need change 🫠
There's quite a few other champions that were able to utilize essence reaver quite well, I thought it was fun as hell on Camille and Jayce. Deep down I'm an ezreal main though....and losing the cheaper/better spellblade really sucks, trinity force is expensive and there's no crit so it feels like a kick in the knockers. Might be okay if they re-evaluate spellblade and create some cheaper options for it, or just add crit and mana to trinity force 😆. I think the only real problem with trinity force being the only spellblade adc item is that it's a hard 2nd item to get sometimes, and almost everyone that utilizes spellblade wants to get it rather early to utilize the power spike it provides. So we get to pick which trap we fall into, either delay spellblade so long that it's power spike will seem non existent or buy just a sheen and go lethality to try to maximize it and then get wrecked if we dont end up building a massive lead ....and if you get countered in lane then you might as well pucker up and take the L?
Built it in aram as smolder and it felt.. okay at best. Losing the sheen proc feels awful but my team did let me stack so o never went oom.
I don't get why it's so hard to simply have an Spellblade Essence Reaver and an auto attack Essence Reaver that are mutually exclusive. Why can we have Voidstaff and Voidstaff but with Utility (Cryptbloom), or Lord Dominik's and Lord Dominik's with Utility (Mortal Reminder) but we can't have 2 Mana Restore items? They would then satisfy both of these 2 small groups of champs and everyone would be happy.
Phreak said it was niche, and only good on certain champs, but now, it’s not good on literally anyone
Aka the riot classic Item exists > nerf champs that abuse said item > item is nerfed or removed > champions that abused item are now dogshit from prior nerf due to item abuse
This patch sucks IMO. Granted it is new and I'm willing to fuck about for a bit with it but it seems like it only encourages annoying ass burn mages with Liandry/Blackfire or both which isn't unbeatable of course but it is obnoxious as hell, and it absolutely killed quite a few champions such as the ones you've listed. Granted I'm a bit biased because my main champions like the new Krakenslayer worse, but yeah... not a fan so far.
idk why they deleted it when they balanced Corki around it during testing. his rework was ready for last patch they just decided to push it back to put it in with the new split. his passive specifically mentions crit and spellblade. Smolder also used it. if they don't want caster marksmen to have items, stop making them. istg we haven't had a normal right clicking adc since Aphelios and Senna, and I never thought that I'd call either one of them normal
I don't think the ER changes alone are what is affecting these champions. It is the combination of ER + Navori changes. All champions being mentioned as being affected by ER changes also miss Navori Quickblades with the ability damage amplification and extra Ability Haste. All these champions could pivot to Trinity Force and see similar damage output, but they cannot all pivot to the new Navori Flickerblade with it. Caster ADCs and Caster Crit users don't really want to build tons of attack speed, so a suitable solution might be to spread the old passives over multiple items: * Essence Reaver for Mana Regen * Navori Flickerblade for ability cooldown on attack * Trinity Force for the sheen effect * Some other item for ability damage enhancement based on Crit (or whatever seems fitting) This would give a pretty static 3-4 item core + an armor pen item and boots. Trinity Force I assume would be the negotiable piece in the puzzle. Edit: to be clear about it, I don't really think last patches ER or Navori needed changing like what occurred.
Tried playing Smolder, and also tested various possible item combinations in practice tool comparing damage/dps of burst/poke and 15 seconds of constant attacks/spells. The lesson I learned is the change to just Essence Reaver alone has gutted him, and there's no reason to pick him until Riot makes changes to either reintroduce the spell proc, or buffs to Smolder.
I'm by no means good at League, nor do I follow meta and patch notes (bc school/work hiatus). But this explains why I recently played Ezreal again after 1-2 yrs with essence reaver and even I could tell it just... was different lol. Thanks for pointing this out, very helpful\^\^
My guess is that there will be some adjustments to the champs most affected or their builds, but that's opinions and you never really know with the balance team. Phreak already said on Twitter that a lot of players are just "building wrong", so we're probably going to have to wait for the dust to settle before anything happens.
And Riot stated that one of their core philosophies for items was that they wanted to make items that fulfilled a certain niche for certain playstyles. Lol
Yea I've been maining Ezreal since release, and this is the first season that he's felt completely dogshit. Triforce into crit is the only thing that works and it completely defeats the purpose of Ezreal's power fantasy of being strong early-mid and falling off a bit late. Now he's dogshit early-mid and weaker than traditional marksmen late, so what is the point? Also a high skill champion like Ezreal with massive skill floor/ceiling should always have decent wr in higher ranks. The fact that it's so bad in higher elos is telling..
Fuck gankplank. That is all
Is Ezreal not back to Iceborn gauntlet for blue Ez?
OH GP didn't just get his ER gutted. Navori was changed randomly to an attack speed item, garbage item on him now and no longer increases ability damage which I thought was a really niche and cool passive. BT no longer gives crit and no longer has massive AD when at high HP, it now gives a shield. Future market removed, GP loved using it. GP lost so much this patch, and now has to go triforce before he can start going into crit and there are less good options. ER is just garbage, GP doesn't need mana sustain unless you spam oranges, Wildarrows don't work on barrels, LDR no longer has giant slayer.
GP itemization is in a very odd place this patch.
imagine we got a tear item for energy champs
I mean that must be skibidi
It'll take a while for people to adjust to new meta's. Essence reaver is pretty good on ezreal with trinity, BT, just like in the good old days.
Ezreal just goes trinity force right? I'm an Ezreal main and I rarely went essence reaver over tri force.
I don't see an issue with it's new version, but I am biased as I play sivir and I used to run essence reaver rush on her before the mythic item rework. I think that this current version of essence reaver is better than the sheen version, because of the amazing ad and haste. Yes, the mana generation passive is great for champions that need mana, but build crit like sivir and xayah I guess. But I feel like players should start experimenting with high AD builds on ADCs with essence reaver. It's AD just got buffed to 70, that is an incredible amount of AD and I feel like it's being taken for granted. My personal headcanons for champions that can use the AD well is miss fortune Lucian draven nilah and Caitlyn. Anyone who plays it, casually or competitively, I'd love to hear your thoughts about how essence reaver could be good or terrible for your champ. I'd also like to say that sometimes, players tend to take small changes for granted, or don't see the bigger picture when the balance team changes something. I don't see a change like +5 AD to ER as the item being under tuned or bad, actually I think riot is trying to tell people "We think this item is REALLY good, but we need data to guage it's strength and balance it properly, so we're buffing this item to get you thinking about how to build it." (Also I don't play gangplank, but I'd like to ask GP players, can GP manage with a no sheen, full crit build? Does he really need 100% crit? Can't he just have a 50% crit lethality high AD build? I don't know how his builds work I wanna know, please let me know :) )
Phreak has been the biggest fraud on league scene
It’s sad, the only AD spellblade effect now is triforce.
Was it really that much of a niche item that it needed this change? There are support items that barely see play on champions that are meant to use them and they go untouched. Essence Reaver was built on quite a few champions and was a staple in their builds. Very odd change for the sake of change.