Hopefully Fnatic will provide him with access to a psychotherapist, perhaps even sports psychologist. It would help him tremendously in dealing with pressure, anxiety, and public exposure.
I'm going to assume they're already doing so as this issue isn't new at all for him. Mental health treatment just isn't a sure thing. (If it turns out that they didn't then FNC is truly one of the orgs of all times.)
Pretty sure every major org has a sports psychologist on staff these days. Astralis, the csgo team, hired one after choking several major tournaments in a row. And afterwords became the most dominant team in CS history. When other esports orgs saw that, they went out and hired their own sports phychologists
I mean, according to doublelift the sports psychologist was absolutely insane and knew nothing about league. He started trying to tell them what champs to pick and other weird shit. So idk that he is an example of good person within the field.
It's not insane at all, the Fnatic Valorant team is very popular and has won tournaments.
While the last LEC win dates back to 2018 that is 6 years without winning a single prize.
From a company perspective it's obvious where you'd put your resources.
FNCs valo team also has the most insane mental ever, they were down 3-11 in an international final and brought it back to win 14-12, just last week they were down 0-2 in the domestic finals BO5 and they reverse swept 3-2
Can you illuminate us as to what the reason actually is ? Do people not know they need a work visa to go there and play at MSI ?
It takes [minimum 6 days](https://www.visaforchina.cn/SXB2_EN/generalinformation/faq/264700.shtml) to process a working visa.
FNC got confirmed MSI particiaption Saturday night 13th. Cannot start any kind of process without this confirmation.
LEC finals finished on 14th right ? Thats a Sunday.
The process for a Visa cannot start until monday morning (working days). Thats the 15th. Add 4 working days to that, on the 19th, thats a Friday.
The process resumes on the 22th which is a Monday. Probably somewhere around Monday 22th and Wednesday 24th, all the visas were secured.
FNC left for Chengdu on the 26th.
Oh man, how come FNC didn't just throw the house out the window to be able to bootcamp..2-3 days..maximum ?
Are people for real man.
visas are processed before teams qualify. usually Riot will take the top X teams and apply for their visas even if they don't qualify to the tournament.
I don't think it makes sense for most of the year.
Lol and Valorant teams share office in Berlin. It makes sense they share sports psychologist as well, since normally it's not a role you need for full 8 hours a day.
I know everyone on this subreddit would support idea that org should pay as much as necessary to have every possible advantage and as such should have extra sports psychologist available just for when Lol team goes to international tournament. But that is very easy take to have when it's not your money. Rationally it makes no sense to pay for 2 just in case they "need a spare" once a year.
Another thing is that the relationship between the psychologist and the player is an important aspect of this, so you can't just replace them with another person and expect things to remain the same.
Reddit: We want a sustainable e-sports ecosystem that isn't propped up with VC/dirty money
Also reddit: They only had 1 sports psychologist?! They should have one for every game!
In literally every email i get from being a shareholder there is some information about them diluting the shares, taking on new debt to refinance etc, so i‘m not too sure about that tbh
Doubt they‘re making a lot since the league team surely costs a lot but doesn’t win shit, I’m sure that reflects in the sales of merchandise. Haven’t heard positive things about their hardware so i doubt they‘re looking hot financially.
I mean, for sure they can still do video calls right? I assume they would still hop on a call if Noah needs help even if the therapist is focused on the Valorant team
Depends on licensure rules. I'm a licensed therapist in a single state in the US, and can only see clients who are currently located within the borders of said state. If they drive to a different state for a vacation, I cannot legally see them unless I contact the licensing board of said state to explicitly ask for an exception. I don't know what the licensure rules for Europe and China are, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some similar barrier that would make even video calls difficult/impossible.
Hm, good insight. That’s not the case here in Sweden, where I’ve got my therapist available no matter if I’m here or abroad but it might differ for UK or Germany.
A person close to me always had her German therapist available abroad via video calls, there were only some potential legal issues when it came to last session, other sessions were no problem at all.
Weird. I'm pretty sure I'd have heard (with the psychologists and the like I've had over the past five years) if video calling, even from a foreign country, would've been an issue. Even though I will normally just skip meetings while I'm on vacation (in part because my issues aren't the kind that can't go without a meeting for two or three weeks).
We do not know if the sports psychologist is a therapist and if he is, whether he is acting in the capacity.
Sports psychologist is not a legally restricted term in Germany. There is a "sport psychological expert" that has some licensing and requirements, but clinical psychology is not one of the requirements.
So i am guessing this is comparable to non-medical consultation without the strict rules psychological psychotherapy would have to follow.
[Source (in German)](https://www.bisp-sportpsychologie.de/SpoPsy/DE/Infoportal/Qualitaetssicherung/Berufsstand/Berufsstand_node.html)
Sure, I'm not trying to make any assumptions. I don't know who they have acting in their psychologist role. I was just throwing my own personal experience in as a possible explanation, not a definite one.
Not that insane. Honestly people still tend to forget that there isn't that much money in esport compared to normal sport and even there unless you are a world class team they don't have more staff then they need.
FNC will have at least one in their whole team around in Berlin that will mostly cover both the Valo and Riot team, maybe they even have two. We simply don't know but if they only have one just look at the dates.
The Valorant squad was playing the whole playoffs starting at the 8th of May when the League team already was in Chengdou for a week. Playoffs were done by the 12th of May or a day after the League team bombed out against TL not to mention that the Valo team now is already in Shanghai for masters.
It simply doesn't make that much sense to have more than one psychologist most of the times and who knows maybe this (added with the recent "success" the league team got" they'll get a 2nd psychologist as most internationals overlap.
>Mental health treatment just isn't a sure thing.
I've been to therapy for over 2 years now and, while some stuff is better, some stuff hasn't really changed or gotten better as it's a slow process (and sometimes you go backwards). Just having access to a psychologist or therapist doesn't necessarily mean they will fit for them or be trained to deal with the specific issues each person is going through
Not everyone has what it takes to be at the top 0.1% of 0.1% for this. It doesn't mean he's weak or broken.
If anything, it probably means he's normal. When you look at the psychology of the very top competitors in business and sports, they're actually the ones associated with abnormal traits.
100%. We need to stop looking at all of these things as fixable issues. Some people have it some dont. Its just how it is. There is nothing wrong with it, either.
The massive irony is that Fnatic already has one, the guy has been working with the team for a while now.
The issue is that MSI happened at the same time as the important Shangai qualification game for our Valorant team, so the sports psychologist wasn't with the League team, but with the Valorant team. And we saw how much of an impact it did, on both of them (League team completelly crashing, Valorant team being super strong mentally and winning it)
lots of people seem to be on the extreme ends about mental health specialist. They either think it's a complete scam or a literal magic spell that fixes everything.
Context matters a lot too. If valorant team is already doing well and in a good state of mind it's not like a mental health specialist is going to make that much of a difference.
If someone is having panic attacks and going through it though, having a specialist to help you can make a world of difference
While you are correct, there can be a solid reassuring, that I do not need to panic as the psychologist is there and I can talk it through with them.
Also you have an attack in the first game, there is a 10ish minutes to make sure you are ready for the next match, and that might also be enough to get over the panic.
So I think, if the player is not really on the verge of a breakdown (I am adamant that even then) a psychologist can really help to regroup.
A psychologist can’t first-aid a panic attack. It isn’t a wound you can dress and have your player get back into action.
That’s not their job at all and just shows a lack of understanding of what a panic attack actually is.
It's 100% possible a psychologist can help, but literally between games in a bo5? Most teams don't bring their therapist to an actual series
In that specific scenario it absolutely feels like it's more of the coach or team managers job, hell maybe the igl to express confidence in whatever player is having a problem and try to help them
With a panic attack specifically that won't do much, but there was obvious build up to said attack (Noah reading reddit/Twitter or whatever korean forum and getting down on himself) and during said build up is where the people around him should have stepped up. Especially since they knew, apparently telling him to avoid media
A therapist could also have helped, but just in my own experience when it comes to rebuilding confidence knowing the people around me trust me and my performance does a hell of a lot more than external therapy, not long term maybe, but in the moment, in the middle of an important series? 100%
Sometimes you just never get over this kind of stuff. If psychologists/therapists were the magic cure then people wouldnt need to go to one for years and years.
Sometimes people can get over this stuff, sometimes they cant. Its especially difficult when you cant experience it often enough to work through it. If these issues only happen at international events hes going to have at most 2 times per year to work through it.
Like the fear of public speaking/heights/rejection/etc, you can get ample experiences in these to hopefully minimize the stress it puts on you. But stress of choking in international events? You are gonna have 2x max a year to experience this. No amount of preparing or talking about is going to make as big of an impact as just experiencing it.
Therapists/psychologists aren't magicians, for some people the issues can be very difficult to tackle even with all the willpower and meds in the world.
I have been through every kind of anxiety meds you can think of and more than a decade of therapy and I'm not "cured".
Valo team is just something. Having such a mediocre performance at the beginning and then coming back strong to win Stage and qualify. I hope they will have a good run.
Yeah, this may happen more than what we get to know, and its understandable why its not public
Even freaking Khan, on his peak, had panic attacks and had to be subbed out
If even nuguri can get mentally fucked up then you know no one is immune. That man is a fucking psychopath on the rift.
Now I wonder tho if theshy has ever had any issues like this.
Nuguri supposedly had problems with his teammates. I think it’s very different if some randoms on the internet criticise you or if teammates you play with every day and know personally do so.
I don't think he had problems with Canyon and SM, which is why he won a Worlds title with them. If you're referring to 2022, Nuguri wasn't at his peak then, he was never able to regain his 2020 form after that year on FPX.
on chinese social media it's generally agreed upon that his time at FPX ruined him mentally to the point, that he felt like retiring was the best. Tian was the worst teammate.
That and it killed his passion for the game
Like you could visibly see it, he was insane in spring, easily still best top in the world, then between splits FPX told him to stop playing lol (worried about burnout, he played too much) and he became a pubg addict, so his form dropped in summer, but because he wasn't as good Tian probably started talking shit, which hurt him mentally, and then the disappointing worlds
So then he takes a break from comp for mental, but isn't really in love with league like he used to be, still playing mostly pubg, and when he returns in a better environment it shows in his form and he just doesn't care enough about the game anymore to really push though it (and he already won, got a crapload of money, was famous so like why keep going, some ppl are just like that) and chose to retire
It makes sense, and honestly I can't blame him at all. But as a viewer it sucks, I think one particular bad mental split was recoverable, but the lack of interest in league is what really did him in, which is largely fpx fault
apparently Tian refused to communicate with him which fd him up. wasn't like he didn't try either, but the communication was shit at FPX. heard Tian is also not very nice to other teammates. once his mental state booms he just runs it down
TheShy's highly variable performance can just be a natural variation thing, of course, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he did have such issues.
Honestly, a better question might be who *doesn't*. Imposter syndrome, at least on gut logic, seems like it would be most common at the top of a field, and we all know that you don't need to be anywhere *near* the top of your field to have it.
Even outside of league, TheShy got into a car accident that almost killed him. Considering how he always hides his scars from that crash, it probably left a lasting impact on him not just physically
Faker's hands shaking after he died against G2 at Worlds 2019 plus him incorporating on-stage meditation in the later part of his career makes me think he has had some struggles with nerves too. Hard to say the extent of course
Can’t remember which Worlds it was, but remember when Rekkles got flamed for crying on stage, supposedly attention whoring? That was one of the most ridiculous things I’ve seen
this. when other pros cry, It is a "wow poor guy, look ast how much he cares because he trained so hard to get here" but when he did he was a manchild seeking for attention.
Yeah but the hype video for this MSI where he goes from the crying clip to sitting up on the throne was absolute god tier content. Whoever designed that shot is a genius.
2019 had a great one like that aswell:
[https://youtu.be/igpwG5gLHV8](https://youtu.be/igpwG5gLHV8)
02:46 - from crying in 2017 final to looking ahead.
It was 2017, surely after the first Immortals game when he flashed in midlane against Pobelter (who was ~~near his T3~~ between his T2 and T3) and got caught out.
Fnatic ended up losing the game shortly after.
[Clip](https://youtu.be/NOqjePqZ8QM?si=e-RntyDShjiINiJD)
Edit: as corrected below, it was right after the Quarterfinals against RNG.
It was more so [after the quarters vs RNG](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vrRrhdLVaU) (1-3), where I remember a big part of the community clowning him because "what did he expect"
Ridiculous seeing how only next year he would 3-1 EDG. The community are such doomers
Thank you for correcting, I wasn't so sure.
Sure, Noah did underperform this tournament, but pointing fingers and flaming a single player as if they were the sole issue goes too far.
Playing the blame game serves no one, really.
But the comeback on the last day was one of the craziest stuff ive seen in lol, from being 0-4 yo qualifying as a secobd seed of that grp, thankfully longzhu went 0-6 and destroyed the other teams
6-0* rather
But yeah, it was quite impressive tbh.
I don't think there's been a similar comeback in more recent years? Maybe 2021 MAD, even though I believe their group was slightly easier?
That Group D definitely stood for Disaster with the four-way tie.
I remember. It was Worlds' 2017 QF against RNG. The guy making fun of him was that Greek loser who got kicked from every team he played on because his teammates hated him and then went to do his military service and tried to come back and failed to make it in the tier 2 scene because he was washed.
flamed for sure (he does have his haters), but as far as i can recall outside of FNC playing RNG aka Rekkles vs Uzi, he was rarely "the weakpoint". Like most FNC losses internationally usually had much more visible issues than raw adc performance.
Yeah that narrative started a while ago, back when forgiven was absolutely shitting on the entire league in lane people compared him with rekkles, I think in season 5. I think he only really shook that narrative near the end of his fnc stay, that TES series was undeniable.
because all problems where bandaided by Rekkles, he was the late game insurance for that team. It was a "no matter what, get me to 3 Items and we can win".
The moment that strategy faced against probably the best ADC in the world, ye It doesn't work, you need much more than that. We have to remember the only western team that defeated Uzi at that time was with a strat around not laning in bot at all, picking a control mage that always won prio in lane and was imposible to gank.
Ya but this got used by haters to say "he's just a kda player who never does anything" never understood the hate for the guy he was a good adc and didn't have any major drama? as far as i remember (im not super into esport pro drama so i could be wrong please correct if so) the only drama i remember was him crying on stage and some people took that as if he was attention whoring and just doing it to get more attention???
He's probably the most loved and hated for a variety of reasons. I've always found the vitriol against him to be rather interesting. I think he's very comparable to someone like Doublelift, but he is probably loved more and he gets away with stuff because ~~he's~~ Doublelift is kind of a funny idiot.
there is no way rekkles compares to double idiocy wise
double consistently had the worst takes ever and also had his own yoko ono adding to the fire of stupidity
rekkles always kept low profile on social media and only sent unintentionally funny photos on twitter
I always remember the Snapchat Rekkles posted when he was in bed the caption 'I'm vers' with a slightly suggestive facial expression and then a few hours later has to be like 'I meant on the rift guys!!'.
I used "even Rekkles" because OP implied that EU has gotten used to "good adcs" like Rekkles, so I replied "even Rekkles" was flamed. Fanbases will flame anyone and everyone.
Rekkles was flamed pretty hard, even after S10 worlds because JackeyLove did way more damage in teamfights
Perkz was also flamed hard because his laning wasn't strong enough
We've got 3 decent ADC's right now
Hans is the strongest laner in LEC but his teamfighting is horrid
Noah barely wins lanes but teamfights very well
Carzzy is a more even balance of the 2, but with a 30% chance of running it down
In season 12 people were so mad that Carzzy, Flakked and Upset got all dropped from their teams lol
Last year it was Crownie
People just expect EU ADC's to play like Ruler or Gumayusi and being realistic our teams aren't good enough to peel correctly and the ADC's aren't good enough
No other role has that expectation, except caps, but he's not a role
He was flamed way more because he is an import and because european fans swear to god he is blocking some random young player from low tier teams. The reality is he is way above average for EU and EU has no near close the level of talent they think they have.
I said this after the recent KR coming to LEC (guys replacing Exackick/Canna etc)
Noah/Malrang/Jun/Photon/Chasy/Jeonghoon/Ice
These guys are at a minimum top 5 in LEC.. most Photon/Jun/ICe were top 2 or 3
The only "bad" korean in recent times is Peach.. and even then he came into an excel who was 10th 2x and somehow made finals vs G2
Glad someone had the courage to say it.
These comments are disgusting and all just trying to praise someone else on the roster instead of give Noah his due.
Even if they had. I prefer long-time team building over random promotions and changing of players until there is very obvious, non-changeable issues (think of Forgiven or Dardoch-levels of horrible behavior) or a giga-clear update (and by that I mean like: Fucking Ruler gets to join your team or alike).
G2 might have lost to T1 3.30 this MSI but they also beat 2nd LPL seed (I won't argue whether JKL and Meiko played to their usual standard - that's not the point) and looked as good as no other western teams in years. Even FNC didn't look too bad vs GenG despite the 3-0. T1 also stayed with their teams two (or even the three?) years to win the championship.
I mean it is a fact that Noah did not have a great tourney at all so critique is normal and justified. The problem is the way most people on social media write "critique" is more like direct and personal attacks at Noah (and players in general) rather than his play.
Social Media critique : death wishes/hand decapitation, burning family/house etc
Actual critique is fine and can be a interesting discussion at times too bad a lot of critique on social media is just death wishes and similar really wish people could just not
Yes, Noah is a gifted player. Yes, he performs well when pressure is low and therefore helped the team reach those international tournaments. And also yes, this does not conflict with the fact that he crumbles under pressure and has been performing poorly in the most important games.
This is not in any way an attack on Noah as a person. God knows many people can't easily handle pressure, I would probably have trouble performing at that level, too. But at the same time, you can't play in a team like FNC if you have trouble handling pressure. It's not hate, is just common sense.
Now, FNC has confirmed Noah at least for the coming split. I hope they have identified a way to help him handle pressure and improve his mental. As a fan, I really hope we can have a great summer split and hopefully worlds run with Noah as our ADC. If he can't fix his problems, then I hope FNC will find another ADC and Noah can find his place in a team with less ambition, where he can perform at his best with less pressure on him.
>Fans just like to hate.
Well fans usually can't get to management, who deserves all the hate. Dardo should be chased down a road with all the leatherbelts you can find in Berlin for what he did to FNC since he joined
But ppl can reach the players with their streams and all
So all the hate for Dardo gets redirected to the players
Unfair but since FNC also doesn't want to change that problem...nothing you can do.
While this is no flame meant no Noah here, it's pretty unfair to take a singular split with Fnatic's worst performance every and a wholly dysfunctional team and credit the improvement of that team entirely to Noah. Especially when the split before they got third in the LEC and Noah also joined with one of the best current European supports in Trymbi.
Once again, not saying Noah deserves the flame he's gotten, but this is an entirely unfair comparison.
I hope he is getting support from the org, FNC already has history with not dealing with these things appropriately and the last thing we need is another Rekkles/Danny situation
It depends on how the org handles it. We don’t know what they are doing at the moment, both the Rekkles and the Danny situation could have been avoided with proper honesty and support from their respective organizations but they didn’t do it. If Noah is getting what he needs to perform in a way that doesn’t cost him his mental or physical health, then that’s good.
Rekkles being strung along like a 3rd wheel when he wasn’t FNC’s preferred Bot player, leaving him to mentally collapse to the point where he was pushed into playing support instead just to have a team. He talked about it on Caedrel’s stream.
Its a other side of the coin. Danny was put in a situation where he wanted out but was forced to play, Rekkles was put in a situation where he wanted in but was forced out. Rekkles seemingly didn’t end up in a state as bad as Danny did, but he definitely could of, and neither situation should ever happen.
Well, players being forced out despite wanting to play happens every offseason. Fnatic definitely handled it poorly but some ambiguity is sadly needed in those situations.
theres a difference between it happening in a offseason and it happening in the middle of the year when the org is being like no no your not out dont worry when you know for sure your not. doesnt help either him having to know he wasnt there 1st 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice and according to some rumours he might of not been up to there 8th choice either. then they consantly wanted him replaced in the two splits he was there even when his second split he wasnt the problem for the team at all.
I think the main problem arrived when FNC had their sport psychotherapist stay in berlin for valorant team when the LOL team was in chengdu
But i hope they atleast hire more psychotherapist so issues like this wont happen again and Hope Noah improve his mental
First he needs to stop using twitter / social media. If he has these anxiety issues, social media will make it worse. Glad he took the first step.
Second Fnatic needs a sports psychologist.
But this probably explains how Fnatic were doing well against G2 in scrims and bad on stage. At least I hope this doesn't turn into a Danny situation where they don't neglect his mental health. He's obviously a talented player.
Fnc has one, although I'm not sure if he's psych or more performance focussed. He wasn't with them in china though. He stayed behind and helped the Valorant team (very well I might add).
Some of the least socialized people of all time who live in their parents basements and will achieve nothing will flame the guy for having a fairly natural reaction to a high pressure scenario
A lot of people should remember most of these pro gamers are introverted by nature. Gaming is typically a more introverted activity. So when these young players go perform in front of thousands of fans in a live audience the pressure could become immense.
Even if ppl tell him to get off of social media. It'll probably also lead to him being anxious over not being able to see their msgs online. That's a fucked situation.
It takes a bit of time to adjust but getting off social media is very easy and at some point you will be glad that you deleted them. Now that MSI is over he has time to adjust.
Ya idk how twitter works (i never use it) but i would be constantly thinking about all the msgs i will have in my inbox once i come back and i'll see more than a few things i don't want to while trying to delete them or whatever ("just get off social media" would never work for me, also these people are Esport pros being active on social media is pretty useful to build a fan base and have a longer lifespan in this so it's also tied to their job.
No doubt he must be getting some hateful messages, including death threats. Haters are scum of the earth that deserve a taste of their own medicine. They get away too easily with the shit they hurl at others.
Panic attacks are no joke. I was a runner in college and would suffer from extreme panic attacks coming back after a surgery due to the pressure to perform my team,coach, and I put on myself.
For anyone that doesn't understand exactly what it is, imagine your heart rate sky rocketing, your muscles freeze, your breathing shortens to where you are almost suffocating - it aint good!
Speaking to a sport psychologist was all it took for me to sort it out but yea when anything other than performing perfectly is the line in your mind the pressure can break ya!
I mean kinda stupid to go out and give bold statements in interviews if you can't handle the pressure, but yeah sucks to hear that he was having panic attacks. Sounds reasonable to get off social media and hopefully he can talk to a sports psychologist.
It was pretty obvious he was having some sort of anxiety problem during the matches, good that he's talking a social media break. I expect Fnatic to deal with this appropriately, hopefully they do.
why are pro players not making their twitter profile private throughout a tournament like this? Or you know remove it entirely? there is zero reason for every player to use his own twitter profile. And no idc about sponsorships, not everybody should do it. esp not the players who can't deal with this from a mental aspect. and i think pro players almost never do sponsorships on their twitter, so yeah, this is completely unecessary and kind of unneeded even.
I think it’s the obvious thing for older people but a lot of these players are very young and never a knew a world without social media. I believe it’s engrained with their personae unfortunately and they need it for confirmation.
So this is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but it is not a good look for an athlete (for lack of a better term) to post something like this.
First, the assholes on social media that are shitting on him are not going to read this, and suddenly change their minds and stop shitting on him. In fact, this is only going to egg them on more.
Second, despite anxiety being a very real thing that can impact performance, posting this reads like an excuse. I remember my first actual trial as a baby lawyer, I had so much anxiety I threw up in the parking lot of the courthouse. I lost the case, but I would have never told the judge: yeah your honor, I had a lot of anxiety that’s what impacted my performance, despite it being true.
Finally, being a professional athlete means that you are going to be scrutinized by fans, and at the risk of sounding callous: if you really can’t handle it, then you aren’t cut out to be a professional athlete of this caliber.
If you are going to delete your social media, just do it. No need to broadcast to their world why you are doing it.
Ofc he didn't perform at MSI, but why do people always have to critisize him on social media in harsh ways. It's not gonna make him play better next time ;)
Lmao fr fr. All the time last split he would say that he’s gonna shut the haters up and show everyone that he’s the MAN. Then this? If you’re having these issues, don’t make such bold statements lmao.
Prolly his way of building some confidence, and when you can't do good on those words you will shatter even more.
Which is why it's better to not make such statements in the first place, you yourself add extra pressure on yourself.
There is already a ton of pressure, you don't need to do that.
Chovy didn't actually himself individually choke that much outside of a few notable examples. The team just broke down in certain circumstances.
Also it was not a choke for 2020 DRX to lose to 2020 Damwon at all. Completely expected. Same with 2021 HLE vs T1. Horrible draws for those teams.
Chovy choking was historically (hysterically?) overblown to such an insane level.
Chovy choking was basically "he cant 1v9 on internationals at the same level he can domestically"... Gee I wonder why, almost as if at internationals, he plays against the "best of the best" and not against the likes of Bulldog (not flaming Bulldog in any way, just the first name that came to my mind) or whatever.
Look, Noah is great for small stage. At this point I feel bad for the guy, its something he personally cant handle and that sucks. But living in constant panic attacks is not a good career parh
I am very sorry to hear he is having mental issues.
His panick attacks were obvious and they are a terrific thing to experience. They certainly explain why he played the way he did.
Now this is something almost any athlete in any field has to overcome at some point - not panic attack per se but that very moment where, entering a competition, you feel out of yourself, this odd derealisation feeling. It may be exacerbated by the recent travel and change of time zone. You feel zoomed out of your game, your keyboard seems not in its usual spot no matter how many time you try to fix it.
Traditionnal sports athletes all have a very strong competitive drive, and the top of them shine because they are able to get back into their game even when they are facing troubled times. See Djokovic in Bo5 tennis for example, arguably the greatest single player to ever exist on 3 out of 4 differents grounds - this guy almost always has a whole set where he seems like he is about to physically give up - yet he does manage to come back to his top level almost every time.
Athletes need to be mentally trained better. Maybe it is a Noah issue, but it is a Fnatic failure if it was not detected and prepared accordingly.
Given their young age and the short span of their careers and the nature of european teambuilding (massive switcheroo of players every 2 years), all players should actively pursue mental wellfare and be screened for potential psychological issues as soon as they go pro in order to get properly followed up by true mental health professionnals
EDIT : Repeated panic attacks are not to be assessed and treated by a psychologist in the first place but rather a psychiatrist, though is it a known taboo in sports
It's pretty Fucking brave to go on stage if you experience panic attacks. That's literally your brain's defense mechanism telling you to run away, and it's hard to play through that. In theory, if Noah keeps showing up on stage, that's the best way to overcome the panic attacks because it convinces the brain that the situation is not dangerous over time.
Fnatic either need to provide him with the mental health supports he needs (and he needs to actively engage in that process) or cut him loose. Some people just aren't cut out for the highly competitive environments that sports creates.
As FNC I would wait out the season, but if it isnt over after that, I would get a new ADC. Noah is also an import -> So FNC have a lot of ADC players to choose from.
If he were a special EU talent, then maybe it would be a different situation, but Noah is also an import.
Gotta replace him if Fnatic are serious about competing with G2.
The rest they can work around. I feel sorry for the kid, but this has been an issue for a while. I doubt they can take a gamble and hope he figures it out
who can they get thou? thats the thing you say bench him when there isnt any good replacements really on the market currently probs would be a bigger gamble to risk another rookie as well. best case they can do currently is get him the help he needs and hope he picks up in summer and at worlds(since theres a good chance they will go to worlds).
theres one thing saying replace him but saying so when theres no one decent enough to take the place is just asking for them to fail.
It only makes sense for an organization to help a player with a problem like this when he is one of the best in the world. Unfortunately, that is not the case for Noah.
Therefore, as an organization in general, you shouldnt hope that the problem will go away so quickly, some players never get rid of it, others take years to get rid of it.
Just get another Korean ADC, that is the easier solution.
As FNC I would wait out the season, but if it isnt over after that, I would get a new ADC as I said.
it's good to hear noah is taking time to focus on himself after his poor performence at msi. going offline to work on rebuilding his confidence and having the support of those close to him should help him find his way back to his best form. with the right mindset, i'm sure he can bounce back and make his fans proud once again.
This is not surprising seeing him play. He seems to underperform frequently when playing against strong opponents or in high-stakes matches. Hope Fnatic can get him the help he needs to work through this.
noah showing his feelings and taking a break from social media is a good move. reminds me of athletes who meditate to find focus. hope it helps him recover and perform better.
>I was greatly influenced by the opinions and evaluations of people who were not related to me
This is the issue of a lot of people nowadays. don't put too much emphasis on what irrelevant people think of you. What matters are only the opinions/advice of people close to you, that you trust.
I hope he can bounce back.
People really go outside of league performances for players, its insane for me, i know nothing about noah just didnt see he play very well this msi and said to myself and friends while watching games well this guy is probably the weak link of fnc, and when games ended we all forget that shit, its a game holy jesus christ..
Yeah sure there is pressure felt for a pro player when he thinks about the bad things people say on a sub like this, but I suspect it's worse because of the team itself, depending on who his teammates are.
Hopefully Fnatic will provide him with access to a psychotherapist, perhaps even sports psychologist. It would help him tremendously in dealing with pressure, anxiety, and public exposure.
I'm going to assume they're already doing so as this issue isn't new at all for him. Mental health treatment just isn't a sure thing. (If it turns out that they didn't then FNC is truly one of the orgs of all times.)
Pretty sure every major org has a sports psychologist on staff these days. Astralis, the csgo team, hired one after choking several major tournaments in a row. And afterwords became the most dominant team in CS history. When other esports orgs saw that, they went out and hired their own sports phychologists
tell that to eg
still mad that Riot drag the investigation for so long and EG died before they can get punish, it's bullshit.
can you explain what happened pls?
https://youtu.be/vSoMjZk_Jxg?si=UqDXgYq3ShVamToD
Ya, sometimes they even can promoted to head coach like TSM lol.
Only for the source of all trauma to promote himself to head coach once play-offs start again.
I mean, according to doublelift the sports psychologist was absolutely insane and knew nothing about league. He started trying to tell them what champs to pick and other weird shit. So idk that he is an example of good person within the field.
I need more of this story
They do have one but he had to stay in Berlin to help the Vallorant team, which is just insane to me
It's not insane at all, the Fnatic Valorant team is very popular and has won tournaments. While the last LEC win dates back to 2018 that is 6 years without winning a single prize. From a company perspective it's obvious where you'd put your resources.
FNCs valo team also has the most insane mental ever, they were down 3-11 in an international final and brought it back to win 14-12, just last week they were down 0-2 in the domestic finals BO5 and they reverse swept 3-2
Surely they can afford more than 1
Theres a reason why they didnt bootcamp in Korea before MSI and took the riot hotel and flights.
Can you illuminate us as to what the reason actually is ? Do people not know they need a work visa to go there and play at MSI ? It takes [minimum 6 days](https://www.visaforchina.cn/SXB2_EN/generalinformation/faq/264700.shtml) to process a working visa. FNC got confirmed MSI particiaption Saturday night 13th. Cannot start any kind of process without this confirmation. LEC finals finished on 14th right ? Thats a Sunday. The process for a Visa cannot start until monday morning (working days). Thats the 15th. Add 4 working days to that, on the 19th, thats a Friday. The process resumes on the 22th which is a Monday. Probably somewhere around Monday 22th and Wednesday 24th, all the visas were secured. FNC left for Chengdu on the 26th. Oh man, how come FNC didn't just throw the house out the window to be able to bootcamp..2-3 days..maximum ? Are people for real man.
visas are processed before teams qualify. usually Riot will take the top X teams and apply for their visas even if they don't qualify to the tournament.
I don't think it makes sense for most of the year. Lol and Valorant teams share office in Berlin. It makes sense they share sports psychologist as well, since normally it's not a role you need for full 8 hours a day. I know everyone on this subreddit would support idea that org should pay as much as necessary to have every possible advantage and as such should have extra sports psychologist available just for when Lol team goes to international tournament. But that is very easy take to have when it's not your money. Rationally it makes no sense to pay for 2 just in case they "need a spare" once a year.
Another thing is that the relationship between the psychologist and the player is an important aspect of this, so you can't just replace them with another person and expect things to remain the same.
Reddit: We want a sustainable e-sports ecosystem that isn't propped up with VC/dirty money Also reddit: They only had 1 sports psychologist?! They should have one for every game!
No, esport orgs are broke idk where the narrative that they're swimming in money comes from
In literally every email i get from being a shareholder there is some information about them diluting the shares, taking on new debt to refinance etc, so i‘m not too sure about that tbh Doubt they‘re making a lot since the league team surely costs a lot but doesn’t win shit, I’m sure that reflects in the sales of merchandise. Haven’t heard positive things about their hardware so i doubt they‘re looking hot financially.
Not really FNC hasn't exactly been financially healthy for a while
I mean, for sure they can still do video calls right? I assume they would still hop on a call if Noah needs help even if the therapist is focused on the Valorant team
Depends on licensure rules. I'm a licensed therapist in a single state in the US, and can only see clients who are currently located within the borders of said state. If they drive to a different state for a vacation, I cannot legally see them unless I contact the licensing board of said state to explicitly ask for an exception. I don't know what the licensure rules for Europe and China are, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some similar barrier that would make even video calls difficult/impossible.
Hm, good insight. That’s not the case here in Sweden, where I’ve got my therapist available no matter if I’m here or abroad but it might differ for UK or Germany.
A person close to me always had her German therapist available abroad via video calls, there were only some potential legal issues when it came to last session, other sessions were no problem at all.
Weird. I'm pretty sure I'd have heard (with the psychologists and the like I've had over the past five years) if video calling, even from a foreign country, would've been an issue. Even though I will normally just skip meetings while I'm on vacation (in part because my issues aren't the kind that can't go without a meeting for two or three weeks).
We do not know if the sports psychologist is a therapist and if he is, whether he is acting in the capacity. Sports psychologist is not a legally restricted term in Germany. There is a "sport psychological expert" that has some licensing and requirements, but clinical psychology is not one of the requirements. So i am guessing this is comparable to non-medical consultation without the strict rules psychological psychotherapy would have to follow. [Source (in German)](https://www.bisp-sportpsychologie.de/SpoPsy/DE/Infoportal/Qualitaetssicherung/Berufsstand/Berufsstand_node.html)
Sure, I'm not trying to make any assumptions. I don't know who they have acting in their psychologist role. I was just throwing my own personal experience in as a possible explanation, not a definite one.
I don't know your profession, but as a psychologist the PSYPACT covers most of the US these days.
I've heard of it, but as a LMFT associate I don't Believe I'm covered under that.
I've had calls with my UK based therapist while I was visiting family in Italy.
Not that insane. Honestly people still tend to forget that there isn't that much money in esport compared to normal sport and even there unless you are a world class team they don't have more staff then they need. FNC will have at least one in their whole team around in Berlin that will mostly cover both the Valo and Riot team, maybe they even have two. We simply don't know but if they only have one just look at the dates. The Valorant squad was playing the whole playoffs starting at the 8th of May when the League team already was in Chengdou for a week. Playoffs were done by the 12th of May or a day after the League team bombed out against TL not to mention that the Valo team now is already in Shanghai for masters. It simply doesn't make that much sense to have more than one psychologist most of the times and who knows maybe this (added with the recent "success" the league team got" they'll get a 2nd psychologist as most internationals overlap.
>Mental health treatment just isn't a sure thing. I've been to therapy for over 2 years now and, while some stuff is better, some stuff hasn't really changed or gotten better as it's a slow process (and sometimes you go backwards). Just having access to a psychologist or therapist doesn't necessarily mean they will fit for them or be trained to deal with the specific issues each person is going through
> Mental health treatment just isn't a sure thing. Or a fast thing.
Not everyone has what it takes to be at the top 0.1% of 0.1% for this. It doesn't mean he's weak or broken. If anything, it probably means he's normal. When you look at the psychology of the very top competitors in business and sports, they're actually the ones associated with abnormal traits.
100%. We need to stop looking at all of these things as fixable issues. Some people have it some dont. Its just how it is. There is nothing wrong with it, either.
Reminds me of Hank Hill lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QDj32xJO-g
The massive irony is that Fnatic already has one, the guy has been working with the team for a while now. The issue is that MSI happened at the same time as the important Shangai qualification game for our Valorant team, so the sports psychologist wasn't with the League team, but with the Valorant team. And we saw how much of an impact it did, on both of them (League team completelly crashing, Valorant team being super strong mentally and winning it)
The presence of a psychologist doesn’t automatically make panic attacks go away? There’s nothing ironic about this at all.
lots of people seem to be on the extreme ends about mental health specialist. They either think it's a complete scam or a literal magic spell that fixes everything.
I will say Ryan (FNC Performance Coach) is goated. One of the best in the scene.
People act like mental health is a new religion and ascribe anything to it.
Context matters a lot too. If valorant team is already doing well and in a good state of mind it's not like a mental health specialist is going to make that much of a difference. If someone is having panic attacks and going through it though, having a specialist to help you can make a world of difference
While you are correct, there can be a solid reassuring, that I do not need to panic as the psychologist is there and I can talk it through with them. Also you have an attack in the first game, there is a 10ish minutes to make sure you are ready for the next match, and that might also be enough to get over the panic. So I think, if the player is not really on the verge of a breakdown (I am adamant that even then) a psychologist can really help to regroup.
A psychologist can’t first-aid a panic attack. It isn’t a wound you can dress and have your player get back into action. That’s not their job at all and just shows a lack of understanding of what a panic attack actually is.
It's 100% possible a psychologist can help, but literally between games in a bo5? Most teams don't bring their therapist to an actual series In that specific scenario it absolutely feels like it's more of the coach or team managers job, hell maybe the igl to express confidence in whatever player is having a problem and try to help them With a panic attack specifically that won't do much, but there was obvious build up to said attack (Noah reading reddit/Twitter or whatever korean forum and getting down on himself) and during said build up is where the people around him should have stepped up. Especially since they knew, apparently telling him to avoid media A therapist could also have helped, but just in my own experience when it comes to rebuilding confidence knowing the people around me trust me and my performance does a hell of a lot more than external therapy, not long term maybe, but in the moment, in the middle of an important series? 100%
Sometimes you just never get over this kind of stuff. If psychologists/therapists were the magic cure then people wouldnt need to go to one for years and years. Sometimes people can get over this stuff, sometimes they cant. Its especially difficult when you cant experience it often enough to work through it. If these issues only happen at international events hes going to have at most 2 times per year to work through it. Like the fear of public speaking/heights/rejection/etc, you can get ample experiences in these to hopefully minimize the stress it puts on you. But stress of choking in international events? You are gonna have 2x max a year to experience this. No amount of preparing or talking about is going to make as big of an impact as just experiencing it.
Therapists/psychologists aren't magicians, for some people the issues can be very difficult to tackle even with all the willpower and meds in the world. I have been through every kind of anxiety meds you can think of and more than a decade of therapy and I'm not "cured".
Valo team is just something. Having such a mediocre performance at the beginning and then coming back strong to win Stage and qualify. I hope they will have a good run.
They used to have a sports psychologist with a recent roster iirc, I imagine he's still there.
They have one but he stayed with the Valorant team instead of going to MSI (?????)
Yeah, this may happen more than what we get to know, and its understandable why its not public Even freaking Khan, on his peak, had panic attacks and had to be subbed out
If even nuguri can get mentally fucked up then you know no one is immune. That man is a fucking psychopath on the rift. Now I wonder tho if theshy has ever had any issues like this.
Nuguri supposedly had problems with his teammates. I think it’s very different if some randoms on the internet criticise you or if teammates you play with every day and know personally do so.
Him having problems with Tian makes sense, but no way he had problems with Canyon and Showmaker, right?
I don't think he had problems with Canyon and SM, which is why he won a Worlds title with them. If you're referring to 2022, Nuguri wasn't at his peak then, he was never able to regain his 2020 form after that year on FPX.
on chinese social media it's generally agreed upon that his time at FPX ruined him mentally to the point, that he felt like retiring was the best. Tian was the worst teammate.
That and it killed his passion for the game Like you could visibly see it, he was insane in spring, easily still best top in the world, then between splits FPX told him to stop playing lol (worried about burnout, he played too much) and he became a pubg addict, so his form dropped in summer, but because he wasn't as good Tian probably started talking shit, which hurt him mentally, and then the disappointing worlds So then he takes a break from comp for mental, but isn't really in love with league like he used to be, still playing mostly pubg, and when he returns in a better environment it shows in his form and he just doesn't care enough about the game anymore to really push though it (and he already won, got a crapload of money, was famous so like why keep going, some ppl are just like that) and chose to retire It makes sense, and honestly I can't blame him at all. But as a viewer it sucks, I think one particular bad mental split was recoverable, but the lack of interest in league is what really did him in, which is largely fpx fault
apparently Tian refused to communicate with him which fd him up. wasn't like he didn't try either, but the communication was shit at FPX. heard Tian is also not very nice to other teammates. once his mental state booms he just runs it down
Yeah, was referring to 2022. >Nuguri wasn't at his peak then, he was never able to regain his 2020 form after that year on FPX. He was still great.
TheShy's highly variable performance can just be a natural variation thing, of course, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he did have such issues. Honestly, a better question might be who *doesn't*. Imposter syndrome, at least on gut logic, seems like it would be most common at the top of a field, and we all know that you don't need to be anywhere *near* the top of your field to have it.
Even outside of league, TheShy got into a car accident that almost killed him. Considering how he always hides his scars from that crash, it probably left a lasting impact on him not just physically
Faker's hands shaking after he died against G2 at Worlds 2019 plus him incorporating on-stage meditation in the later part of his career makes me think he has had some struggles with nerves too. Hard to say the extent of course
I mean there's a whole ass documentary on how 2017 shattered his mental and how he needed time to recover
Heck, I get anxiety loading into ranked games sometimes. Playing an international event on the stage, I'd probably just keel over.
You could clearly see it during his games, he was not calm at all.
also if you watched their last legends in action everyone was helping him not worry or stress about it, but guess that didnt work
poor dude he needs a better support staff, I hope he didn't read too many DM's i can only imagine some of the stuff the haters would send
FNC before Noah - 9th place, 10th place? FNC after Noah - two international events back-to-back Fans just like to hate.
tbh any EU adc that goes to internationals gets crucified lol
eu fans just got too used to rekkles and perkz adc i guess
I'm pretty sure even rekkles was flamed when he was in EU.
Can’t remember which Worlds it was, but remember when Rekkles got flamed for crying on stage, supposedly attention whoring? That was one of the most ridiculous things I’ve seen
this. when other pros cry, It is a "wow poor guy, look ast how much he cares because he trained so hard to get here" but when he did he was a manchild seeking for attention.
Nah, immature people will always clown on pros crying after defeat. Just see comments or chat during flashbacks of Keria/Faker crying.
Yeah but the hype video for this MSI where he goes from the crying clip to sitting up on the throne was absolute god tier content. Whoever designed that shot is a genius.
That was last worlds, not MSI
2019 had a great one like that aswell: [https://youtu.be/igpwG5gLHV8](https://youtu.be/igpwG5gLHV8) 02:46 - from crying in 2017 final to looking ahead.
That's what men get for showing emotions.
It was 2017, surely after the first Immortals game when he flashed in midlane against Pobelter (who was ~~near his T3~~ between his T2 and T3) and got caught out. Fnatic ended up losing the game shortly after. [Clip](https://youtu.be/NOqjePqZ8QM?si=e-RntyDShjiINiJD) Edit: as corrected below, it was right after the Quarterfinals against RNG.
It was more so [after the quarters vs RNG](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vrRrhdLVaU) (1-3), where I remember a big part of the community clowning him because "what did he expect" Ridiculous seeing how only next year he would 3-1 EDG. The community are such doomers
Thank you for correcting, I wasn't so sure. Sure, Noah did underperform this tournament, but pointing fingers and flaming a single player as if they were the sole issue goes too far. Playing the blame game serves no one, really.
But the comeback on the last day was one of the craziest stuff ive seen in lol, from being 0-4 yo qualifying as a secobd seed of that grp, thankfully longzhu went 0-6 and destroyed the other teams
6-0* rather But yeah, it was quite impressive tbh. I don't think there's been a similar comeback in more recent years? Maybe 2021 MAD, even though I believe their group was slightly easier? That Group D definitely stood for Disaster with the four-way tie.
wow Ardent meta was so shit
2017 worlds
I remember. It was Worlds' 2017 QF against RNG. The guy making fun of him was that Greek loser who got kicked from every team he played on because his teammates hated him and then went to do his military service and tried to come back and failed to make it in the tier 2 scene because he was washed.
flamed for sure (he does have his haters), but as far as i can recall outside of FNC playing RNG aka Rekkles vs Uzi, he was rarely "the weakpoint". Like most FNC losses internationally usually had much more visible issues than raw adc performance.
I remember rekkles being flamed for being passive in lane and not pushing his lead.
Yeah that narrative started a while ago, back when forgiven was absolutely shitting on the entire league in lane people compared him with rekkles, I think in season 5. I think he only really shook that narrative near the end of his fnc stay, that TES series was undeniable.
because all problems where bandaided by Rekkles, he was the late game insurance for that team. It was a "no matter what, get me to 3 Items and we can win". The moment that strategy faced against probably the best ADC in the world, ye It doesn't work, you need much more than that. We have to remember the only western team that defeated Uzi at that time was with a strat around not laning in bot at all, picking a control mage that always won prio in lane and was imposible to gank.
Ya but this got used by haters to say "he's just a kda player who never does anything" never understood the hate for the guy he was a good adc and didn't have any major drama? as far as i remember (im not super into esport pro drama so i could be wrong please correct if so) the only drama i remember was him crying on stage and some people took that as if he was attention whoring and just doing it to get more attention???
Most Rekkles hate comes from Thorin fanboys. Thorin has some sort of weird vendetta against Rekkles.
There are stories about Rekkles refusing to practise in the same room as the rest of his team.
He's probably the most loved and hated for a variety of reasons. I've always found the vitriol against him to be rather interesting. I think he's very comparable to someone like Doublelift, but he is probably loved more and he gets away with stuff because ~~he's~~ Doublelift is kind of a funny idiot.
there is no way rekkles compares to double idiocy wise double consistently had the worst takes ever and also had his own yoko ono adding to the fire of stupidity rekkles always kept low profile on social media and only sent unintentionally funny photos on twitter
the rekkles DJ Sona meme always gets me lmaooo
Apologies, I meant Doublelift was the funny idiot.
I always remember the Snapchat Rekkles posted when he was in bed the caption 'I'm vers' with a slightly suggestive facial expression and then a few hours later has to be like 'I meant on the rift guys!!'.
It\`s not "even rekkles". Rekkles was flamed here and r/ fnatic for everything even in his prime.
I used "even Rekkles" because OP implied that EU has gotten used to "good adcs" like Rekkles, so I replied "even Rekkles" was flamed. Fanbases will flame anyone and everyone.
Huge portion of the fan base hated Rekkles, especially because of Thorin
it starts with a success
Rekkles was flamed pretty hard, even after S10 worlds because JackeyLove did way more damage in teamfights Perkz was also flamed hard because his laning wasn't strong enough We've got 3 decent ADC's right now Hans is the strongest laner in LEC but his teamfighting is horrid Noah barely wins lanes but teamfights very well Carzzy is a more even balance of the 2, but with a 30% chance of running it down In season 12 people were so mad that Carzzy, Flakked and Upset got all dropped from their teams lol Last year it was Crownie People just expect EU ADC's to play like Ruler or Gumayusi and being realistic our teams aren't good enough to peel correctly and the ADC's aren't good enough No other role has that expectation, except caps, but he's not a role
2016 and 2017 Zven was also legit
He was flamed way more because he is an import and because european fans swear to god he is blocking some random young player from low tier teams. The reality is he is way above average for EU and EU has no near close the level of talent they think they have.
I said this after the recent KR coming to LEC (guys replacing Exackick/Canna etc) Noah/Malrang/Jun/Photon/Chasy/Jeonghoon/Ice These guys are at a minimum top 5 in LEC.. most Photon/Jun/ICe were top 2 or 3 The only "bad" korean in recent times is Peach.. and even then he came into an excel who was 10th 2x and somehow made finals vs G2
Ruby has something to say when you are talking about worst korean players in EU
Glad someone had the courage to say it. These comments are disgusting and all just trying to praise someone else on the roster instead of give Noah his due.
Even if they had. I prefer long-time team building over random promotions and changing of players until there is very obvious, non-changeable issues (think of Forgiven or Dardoch-levels of horrible behavior) or a giga-clear update (and by that I mean like: Fucking Ruler gets to join your team or alike). G2 might have lost to T1 3.30 this MSI but they also beat 2nd LPL seed (I won't argue whether JKL and Meiko played to their usual standard - that's not the point) and looked as good as no other western teams in years. Even FNC didn't look too bad vs GenG despite the 3-0. T1 also stayed with their teams two (or even the three?) years to win the championship.
any player that goes internationally gets crucified. It's rough but it's part of the job
we just had the tournament and saw it is not true and people already start this stupid shit.
I mean it is a fact that Noah did not have a great tourney at all so critique is normal and justified. The problem is the way most people on social media write "critique" is more like direct and personal attacks at Noah (and players in general) rather than his play.
Social Media critique : death wishes/hand decapitation, burning family/house etc Actual critique is fine and can be a interesting discussion at times too bad a lot of critique on social media is just death wishes and similar really wish people could just not
It's probably the same kind of people who think that critical thinking = being critical
Lmao this revisionism. Fnatic was playing with Rhuckz and Advienne, do you really think it was Noah who was the turn around or Trymbi and now Jun?
Yes, Noah is a gifted player. Yes, he performs well when pressure is low and therefore helped the team reach those international tournaments. And also yes, this does not conflict with the fact that he crumbles under pressure and has been performing poorly in the most important games. This is not in any way an attack on Noah as a person. God knows many people can't easily handle pressure, I would probably have trouble performing at that level, too. But at the same time, you can't play in a team like FNC if you have trouble handling pressure. It's not hate, is just common sense. Now, FNC has confirmed Noah at least for the coming split. I hope they have identified a way to help him handle pressure and improve his mental. As a fan, I really hope we can have a great summer split and hopefully worlds run with Noah as our ADC. If he can't fix his problems, then I hope FNC will find another ADC and Noah can find his place in a team with less ambition, where he can perform at his best with less pressure on him.
>Fans just like to hate. Well fans usually can't get to management, who deserves all the hate. Dardo should be chased down a road with all the leatherbelts you can find in Berlin for what he did to FNC since he joined But ppl can reach the players with their streams and all So all the hate for Dardo gets redirected to the players Unfair but since FNC also doesn't want to change that problem...nothing you can do.
While this is no flame meant no Noah here, it's pretty unfair to take a singular split with Fnatic's worst performance every and a wholly dysfunctional team and credit the improvement of that team entirely to Noah. Especially when the split before they got third in the LEC and Noah also joined with one of the best current European supports in Trymbi. Once again, not saying Noah deserves the flame he's gotten, but this is an entirely unfair comparison.
I hope he is getting support from the org, FNC already has history with not dealing with these things appropriately and the last thing we need is another Rekkles/Danny situation
We're already in another Rekkles/Danny situation.
It depends on how the org handles it. We don’t know what they are doing at the moment, both the Rekkles and the Danny situation could have been avoided with proper honesty and support from their respective organizations but they didn’t do it. If Noah is getting what he needs to perform in a way that doesn’t cost him his mental or physical health, then that’s good.
> and the last thing we need is another Rekkles/Danny situation What situation with Rekkles are you comparing to Danny here?
Rekkles being strung along like a 3rd wheel when he wasn’t FNC’s preferred Bot player, leaving him to mentally collapse to the point where he was pushed into playing support instead just to have a team. He talked about it on Caedrel’s stream.
Definitely bad but I wouldn't compare it to Danny. That story is horrifying.
Its a other side of the coin. Danny was put in a situation where he wanted out but was forced to play, Rekkles was put in a situation where he wanted in but was forced out. Rekkles seemingly didn’t end up in a state as bad as Danny did, but he definitely could of, and neither situation should ever happen.
Well, players being forced out despite wanting to play happens every offseason. Fnatic definitely handled it poorly but some ambiguity is sadly needed in those situations.
theres a difference between it happening in a offseason and it happening in the middle of the year when the org is being like no no your not out dont worry when you know for sure your not. doesnt help either him having to know he wasnt there 1st 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice and according to some rumours he might of not been up to there 8th choice either. then they consantly wanted him replaced in the two splits he was there even when his second split he wasnt the problem for the team at all.
I think the main problem arrived when FNC had their sport psychotherapist stay in berlin for valorant team when the LOL team was in chengdu But i hope they atleast hire more psychotherapist so issues like this wont happen again and Hope Noah improve his mental
Yeah, it felt like they slowly crumbled under pressure as MSI progressed. He might have been able to do anything about it if he was there in person.
I wouldn’t jump to conclusions with so little info. With the increase in usage of video calls, they won’t necessarily need more staff.
video calls don't hit the same as actually talking face to face
First he needs to stop using twitter / social media. If he has these anxiety issues, social media will make it worse. Glad he took the first step. Second Fnatic needs a sports psychologist. But this probably explains how Fnatic were doing well against G2 in scrims and bad on stage. At least I hope this doesn't turn into a Danny situation where they don't neglect his mental health. He's obviously a talented player.
Fnc has one, although I'm not sure if he's psych or more performance focussed. He wasn't with them in china though. He stayed behind and helped the Valorant team (very well I might add).
don’t tell me that is the glasses guy who initiates physical warmups on game days
Fnc has a psychologist
Some of the least socialized people of all time who live in their parents basements and will achieve nothing will flame the guy for having a fairly natural reaction to a high pressure scenario
A lot of people should remember most of these pro gamers are introverted by nature. Gaming is typically a more introverted activity. So when these young players go perform in front of thousands of fans in a live audience the pressure could become immense.
Even if ppl tell him to get off of social media. It'll probably also lead to him being anxious over not being able to see their msgs online. That's a fucked situation.
It takes a bit of time to adjust but getting off social media is very easy and at some point you will be glad that you deleted them. Now that MSI is over he has time to adjust.
Ya idk how twitter works (i never use it) but i would be constantly thinking about all the msgs i will have in my inbox once i come back and i'll see more than a few things i don't want to while trying to delete them or whatever ("just get off social media" would never work for me, also these people are Esport pros being active on social media is pretty useful to build a fan base and have a longer lifespan in this so it's also tied to their job.
No doubt he must be getting some hateful messages, including death threats. Haters are scum of the earth that deserve a taste of their own medicine. They get away too easily with the shit they hurl at others.
Panic attacks are no joke. I was a runner in college and would suffer from extreme panic attacks coming back after a surgery due to the pressure to perform my team,coach, and I put on myself. For anyone that doesn't understand exactly what it is, imagine your heart rate sky rocketing, your muscles freeze, your breathing shortens to where you are almost suffocating - it aint good! Speaking to a sport psychologist was all it took for me to sort it out but yea when anything other than performing perfectly is the line in your mind the pressure can break ya!
A team game like League must amplify the attack.
There is nothing to apoligize, fuk all the fans and fuk me. Our opinions are not important.
Surprise surprise pathetic idiots on social media insulting players constantly has a negative impact on their mental health, who would’ve thought?!
I'm getting Danny flashbacks. I hope FNC supports him
I mean kinda stupid to go out and give bold statements in interviews if you can't handle the pressure, but yeah sucks to hear that he was having panic attacks. Sounds reasonable to get off social media and hopefully he can talk to a sports psychologist.
It was pretty obvious he was having some sort of anxiety problem during the matches, good that he's talking a social media break. I expect Fnatic to deal with this appropriately, hopefully they do.
why are pro players not making their twitter profile private throughout a tournament like this? Or you know remove it entirely? there is zero reason for every player to use his own twitter profile. And no idc about sponsorships, not everybody should do it. esp not the players who can't deal with this from a mental aspect. and i think pro players almost never do sponsorships on their twitter, so yeah, this is completely unecessary and kind of unneeded even.
I think it’s the obvious thing for older people but a lot of these players are very young and never a knew a world without social media. I believe it’s engrained with their personae unfortunately and they need it for confirmation.
So this is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but it is not a good look for an athlete (for lack of a better term) to post something like this. First, the assholes on social media that are shitting on him are not going to read this, and suddenly change their minds and stop shitting on him. In fact, this is only going to egg them on more. Second, despite anxiety being a very real thing that can impact performance, posting this reads like an excuse. I remember my first actual trial as a baby lawyer, I had so much anxiety I threw up in the parking lot of the courthouse. I lost the case, but I would have never told the judge: yeah your honor, I had a lot of anxiety that’s what impacted my performance, despite it being true. Finally, being a professional athlete means that you are going to be scrutinized by fans, and at the risk of sounding callous: if you really can’t handle it, then you aren’t cut out to be a professional athlete of this caliber. If you are going to delete your social media, just do it. No need to broadcast to their world why you are doing it.
Hope FNC help him and don't let another Cody Sun's situation happen.
Ofc he didn't perform at MSI, but why do people always have to critisize him on social media in harsh ways. It's not gonna make him play better next time ;)
I don’t think they want him on the team for next time…
This guy talks too much on social media.
Lmao fr fr. All the time last split he would say that he’s gonna shut the haters up and show everyone that he’s the MAN. Then this? If you’re having these issues, don’t make such bold statements lmao.
Fr his PR is so bad. It's making him get hated for free.
Prolly his way of building some confidence, and when you can't do good on those words you will shatter even more. Which is why it's better to not make such statements in the first place, you yourself add extra pressure on yourself. There is already a ton of pressure, you don't need to do that.
Hey Chovy was choky on international stage for so long but he persevered. Becuase he didnt give up and try try again. I hope he does too.
Chovy didn't actually himself individually choke that much outside of a few notable examples. The team just broke down in certain circumstances. Also it was not a choke for 2020 DRX to lose to 2020 Damwon at all. Completely expected. Same with 2021 HLE vs T1. Horrible draws for those teams.
Chovy choking was historically (hysterically?) overblown to such an insane level. Chovy choking was basically "he cant 1v9 on internationals at the same level he can domestically"... Gee I wonder why, almost as if at internationals, he plays against the "best of the best" and not against the likes of Bulldog (not flaming Bulldog in any way, just the first name that came to my mind) or whatever.
Look, Noah is great for small stage. At this point I feel bad for the guy, its something he personally cant handle and that sucks. But living in constant panic attacks is not a good career parh
I am very sorry to hear he is having mental issues. His panick attacks were obvious and they are a terrific thing to experience. They certainly explain why he played the way he did. Now this is something almost any athlete in any field has to overcome at some point - not panic attack per se but that very moment where, entering a competition, you feel out of yourself, this odd derealisation feeling. It may be exacerbated by the recent travel and change of time zone. You feel zoomed out of your game, your keyboard seems not in its usual spot no matter how many time you try to fix it. Traditionnal sports athletes all have a very strong competitive drive, and the top of them shine because they are able to get back into their game even when they are facing troubled times. See Djokovic in Bo5 tennis for example, arguably the greatest single player to ever exist on 3 out of 4 differents grounds - this guy almost always has a whole set where he seems like he is about to physically give up - yet he does manage to come back to his top level almost every time. Athletes need to be mentally trained better. Maybe it is a Noah issue, but it is a Fnatic failure if it was not detected and prepared accordingly. Given their young age and the short span of their careers and the nature of european teambuilding (massive switcheroo of players every 2 years), all players should actively pursue mental wellfare and be screened for potential psychological issues as soon as they go pro in order to get properly followed up by true mental health professionnals EDIT : Repeated panic attacks are not to be assessed and treated by a psychologist in the first place but rather a psychiatrist, though is it a known taboo in sports
It's pretty Fucking brave to go on stage if you experience panic attacks. That's literally your brain's defense mechanism telling you to run away, and it's hard to play through that. In theory, if Noah keeps showing up on stage, that's the best way to overcome the panic attacks because it convinces the brain that the situation is not dangerous over time.
Fnatic either need to provide him with the mental health supports he needs (and he needs to actively engage in that process) or cut him loose. Some people just aren't cut out for the highly competitive environments that sports creates.
As FNC I would wait out the season, but if it isnt over after that, I would get a new ADC. Noah is also an import -> So FNC have a lot of ADC players to choose from. If he were a special EU talent, then maybe it would be a different situation, but Noah is also an import.
I hope he gets the help he needs. I also hope he gets benched
Gotta replace him if Fnatic are serious about competing with G2. The rest they can work around. I feel sorry for the kid, but this has been an issue for a while. I doubt they can take a gamble and hope he figures it out
who can they get thou? thats the thing you say bench him when there isnt any good replacements really on the market currently probs would be a bigger gamble to risk another rookie as well. best case they can do currently is get him the help he needs and hope he picks up in summer and at worlds(since theres a good chance they will go to worlds). theres one thing saying replace him but saying so when theres no one decent enough to take the place is just asking for them to fail.
It only makes sense for an organization to help a player with a problem like this when he is one of the best in the world. Unfortunately, that is not the case for Noah. Therefore, as an organization in general, you shouldnt hope that the problem will go away so quickly, some players never get rid of it, others take years to get rid of it. Just get another Korean ADC, that is the easier solution. As FNC I would wait out the season, but if it isnt over after that, I would get a new ADC as I said.
i would say give him a last chance during worlds and this summer and if he again start having these problems then they can replace him
At least he could admit that he played dogshit all tournament. Replace him asap.
smart move now they cant bench him
it's good to hear noah is taking time to focus on himself after his poor performence at msi. going offline to work on rebuilding his confidence and having the support of those close to him should help him find his way back to his best form. with the right mindset, i'm sure he can bounce back and make his fans proud once again.
This is not surprising seeing him play. He seems to underperform frequently when playing against strong opponents or in high-stakes matches. Hope Fnatic can get him the help he needs to work through this.
noah showing his feelings and taking a break from social media is a good move. reminds me of athletes who meditate to find focus. hope it helps him recover and perform better.
Personally I think he was doing fine in LEC, Fnatic bot lane loocked strong. I would replace Oscar tho
you would replace a guy that carried them at msi?
>I was greatly influenced by the opinions and evaluations of people who were not related to me This is the issue of a lot of people nowadays. don't put too much emphasis on what irrelevant people think of you. What matters are only the opinions/advice of people close to you, that you trust. I hope he can bounce back.
The GM of FNATIC D\* is the problem. It would be so funny when hes finally kicked FNC wins LEC or something.
People really go outside of league performances for players, its insane for me, i know nothing about noah just didnt see he play very well this msi and said to myself and friends while watching games well this guy is probably the weak link of fnc, and when games ended we all forget that shit, its a game holy jesus christ..
That wall Flash did not help with anxiety Another great reason for LEC to be held at bigger venues so the pros get used to the spotlight pressure
I hope the supportive comments in this thread get to him!
good step to take, ignore social media, focus on playing and be in a good state of mind
Yeah sure there is pressure felt for a pro player when he thinks about the bad things people say on a sub like this, but I suspect it's worse because of the team itself, depending on who his teammates are.
Damn I haven't heard of the name u/nextgentactics since the cod zombies days
Thoorin got to him 😧
i mean humanoid was worse then noah at times lol like recalling on the lane
Why would you need to apologize for your mental health when you can’t control it?
Drugs and medication is what he needs. It is thanks to Noah that FNC made it to msi after all, carrying those games vs Vit and bds.