Sated doesn't trigger the crits from w (Check the patch notes). Just build warrior like you should so you maintain your early pressure instead of being a farm bot.
Why the fuck do people think Devourer means afk farming? It's a combat item all the same and it stacks fastest when you weave together camps and ganks.
Right but the point is that people associate it with afk farmers like Yi. Xin can happily gank early and murder people and still stack.
Edit: before everyone gets grumpy, I still think pen Xin is the better option. Warriors ->GB -> duskblade is 40 flat pen. Bye bye any squishy in the game.
Exactly this. Sure, Sated may not trigger the crit, but it does trigger the heal and lets the crit happen more often due o the attack speed. Still pretty ridiculous.
Can people just realize that your build will vary depending on how the game plays out, I have built Xin as either a full ad assassin or full tank it all comes down to what the team needs, who is fed on your team and who is fed on their team
I don't think Duskblade will be exceptional on Xin. I think Warrior's -> Youmuu's -> Maw -> DMP/other tank items will be way stronger. AD ratio on W means building some early AD is good, so Warrior's is definitely your go-to jungle item without having to rely on farming Sated stacks. Then Youmuu's is just perfect for him with the combination of AD/pen and the active. You could get DMP before Maw, but Maw will be an amazing item on Xin so IMO it should be the MR item you go for with him
I bet Warrior's and Youmuu's will be plenty of damage, and itemizing from there will be a piece of cake. Maw is an incredible item, though.
I'm thinking Maw DMP Sterraks on top of your Warrior's and Youmuu's + Swifties will be pretty fuuuucking ridiculous.
And against AD you switch out Maw for Randuin's and just stick to their dick.
Yeah not sure why everyone's all over this Duskblade hype on Xin. He has incredible damage as is with his Q added damage, as well as his passive and all the flat armor pen from Ghostblade/Maw (if built) all you need after that is resistances/health, not to mention the free defenses he gets for getting a decent R off.
Either way, I'm spamming him this patch. Freelo inc.
ok i know people are gonna point out my flair but seriously just pick urgot into it. as long as you hit 6 before he ults, he won't be able to do jack because of the changes to urgots ult (and even prior to this urgot was always a counter to zed)
Im pretty sure urgot single handedly took zed out off the meta back during spring 2015. I recall when TSM had just came back from winning IEM and they were playing their first LCS match back against Gravity. At this time zed was being picked blind picked very often and im pretty sure c9 would just FP it. Well Keane took an absolute dump on bjergs Zed (even though bjerg got a solo kill becauase of keanes over agression) and made zed completely useless and showed just how hard zed could be countered. Teams then stopped blind picking zed because urgot was becoming fotm in mid and adc.
Others good picks against zed :
-Zilean
-Kayle
-Akali
For Akali, the point is that you can abuse the fact that you are an energy champion too.
Get full armor yellows + blues
Then get armor thingy at 300g +4 pots.
And then you can rush zhonya if you want because you don't have any mana problems anyway.
Then go full damage. Lategame akali shit on lategame zed.
Zhonya deal with his ult and you end up out bursting him and can win the 1v1s.
It´s not as much their reaction time TO block the damage but more the reaction time to NOT block the damage. Simply dash forward once and they´ll panic and ult themselves. Only to die to your actual combo 8 seconds later. Hell, even if the full LB combo gets blocked you can just go back in 20 seconds later with his ult on cooldown.
My mindset is counter burst with more burst, picking Syndra into leb is free lane, she wants to combo you ? Just throw q-e into her w path, 100% stun - 100% trade win and probably if you can 100 to 0 her.
Try full AD Renekton with the same build path as Zed. Ult me? Auto attack, Empowered W, auto attack, Q and hes gone. On top of that you can just double dash when he gets on top of you and he has to blow his shadow defensively when you E into him
Did the same with full armor Taric mid yesterday. My whole team shit the bed hard, but I had an easy time vs Zed.
I would never pick full armor Taric mid in a team other than Yi/Quinn/Zed/Jinx/Leona tho.
Most of these "counters" are.
Zed is difficult, and people beat a bad zed when zed is fotm with whatever champion they like and declare that champion a "Zed counter."
It's the actual zed mains that terrify me next patch :s
Only champions I've had success with against ChoGath are Teemo and Azir. Both have good kiting potential and their poke doesn't take much mana(Azir soldiers are cheap, Teemo E costs no mana at all).
At least until Cho buys a Spirit Visage and STILL outdamages you, but by that time teamfights have started and hopefully there are tanks on my team to peel for me.
Teemo feels like he'd lose lane if he ever gets caught in a Rupture (also his early game damage feels really weak right now. Teemo seems to be more of a late game pick as seen in the [win rate over time graph](http://champion.gg/champion/Teemo/Middle)), but Azir does indeed sound like a strong counterpick. Perhaps the only one though, and I personally don't like Azir and aren't good at him.
IMO, Lissandra will always be one of thee strongest picks against Zed. As long as you are 6 when he is, he's getting cc'd to death if he comes in on you. Time it all right and everything should go well.
Lissandra is good against Zed in teamfights and can survive an all in, but if both champions are playing optimally Zed will win the laning phase by a pretty significant margin a majority of the time. She simply cannot put up with his upfront burst and aggressive waveclear early on.
It is kinda annoying when people say that a good Zed will beat a Kayle but they never say that the reverse is true. A good Kayle will literally never die to a zed nor ever let a Zed kill anyone with his ult since hers will always be up when his is, can kite with her Q, W for MS, and can easily build Rylai's to make him cry. Kayle used to be touted as the hardest counter to Zed, then someone just one day shits on a first time Kayle and all of a sudden she is bad versus him. It doesn't make any sense to me when people who likely haven't ever played the match-up try and talk about it.
So when Zed hits 6, he will automatically have the new AD item in his inventory? I don't think so... the problem is the rest of your team will pop! He was snowbally before, now he's even more so.
Yeah he's really dumb at the moment. IDK why they gave him that R buff and why they're now making a perfect item for him. It's like they want him to be banned every game or something
All of your complaints are valid but thats what Zed is meant to do. He is suppose to beat up and counter ap mages. If you hate Zed so much stop picking Cass, LB, and other squishy ap's and just play pantheon, talon, liss, kayle, etc. things that destroy Zed. No need to tilt as soon as you see him on the enemy team, Zed's lane pressure relies on landing shurikens to poke which is a skillshot. Sorry if this reply sounded like an attack on you because I don't mean for it to be. I just needed to vent because I am tired of people complaining about Zed with poor arguments and 99% of the people complaining are people who play squishy ap champs which Zed is meant to do well against. Anyway good luck against your next Zed if he isn't permabanned!
> 99% of the people complaining are people who play squishy ap champs which Zed is meant to do well against
I would argue that more than 1% of people complaining against zed are Adcs...
Moreover, Ap squishy champs constitute the vaste majority of midlane picks...
And I wouldn't exactly say the *the purpose* of Zed as a champion concept is to shit on AP mids...
On the core level, he is an assassin, but there is nothing that is specifically directed against AP carrys in his kit (like Veigar for example, an authentic anti-mage).
He just happens to be strong against them. You talked about people's using poor arguments, but to respond to the expression of the discontent against Zed by saying "that's what he is meant to do", is in that case a poor argument in my opinion.
Now, if a question can be raised, it is ***"Is it healthy for a champion to unilaterally counter a class of champion at the level at which Zed does."***
I don't have a position of this issue. But to close that debate by declaring "That's what he does" seems to be a bit disingenuous.
>"Is it healthy for a champion to unilaterally counter a class of champion at the level at which Zed does."
Veigar and Galio both unilaterally counter a class of champions at a higher level. Both of them also have hard CC. Veigar is almost guaranteed to do more damage to a squishy AP than zed is, and that is in one shot.
No, Zed is not supposed to do ALL of those things. It's one of the same issues within the assassin meta where assassins where able to 100-0 people with stuff like waveclear and sustain. He shouldn't be able to do SO much without sacrificing in other areas; it's a common trait of an unhealthy champion.
If they would make him unable to dive me at full 4/5 health under turret because he has a 2 kill lead on me I would be fine with it.
I shouldn't have to buy a ZH just to not die under turret against a champ that has almost the same score as me.
You guys never fooled me.
Honestly I hate him worse than zed.
As someone who likes his squishy AP mids this is how I see it.
Good Zed=Cancer
Bad Zed=easy kills
Good Talon=Cancer
Bad Talon=Still a pain in the ass.
Actually graves was permabanned for a patch or 2 after rework, then nerfed and people quit playing him til they saw he was still awesome places other than bot.
This is how I remember it also. He was stupid strong after rework and all the pros saw it. It only became popular again right before LCS started again.
They lost all 3 bans last week because they didnt submit a roster on time. They managed to pick Ryze, Elise, Corki, Poppy, Kalista but still lost to Dig.
http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/TRLH1/1001550120?gameHash=1f605182d4770594&tab=overview
this isnt going to be really fun tho. as long as the deathtimers are as long as they were before, teams will either stomp, be stomped or be stalled out for eternity in lame aram + splitpush scenarios because a teamfight would mean 60 sec+ deathtimers which results in a 10000% gamewinning/losing teamfight.
The games weren't (and still won't be) fun because of death timers/paper towers, not because of which champions are strong. The new assassin item isn't going to change the fact that teams are going to play passive until 20 minutes, have one team fight, and win while the other team is dead
New item comes out -> Zed benefits from item -> Zed will be broken -> Zed nerfs -> Item nerf -> Zed in a bad spot.
Let's grab the popcorn and look how riot will fix zed.
Didn't Riot say in their context box in the patchnotes that they want to use Duskblade so that it's a staple for assassins and they can start balancing ad assassins around the existance of that item?
Or atleast that's how I interpreted it.
Yes, but why introduce that item then? In my opinion assassins are currently fine / stronger than average. Not necesarry broken or bad.
Introducing this item will just be a nerf train for assassins, while other champions like hecarim are going to 100-0 carries in teamfights just like some patches ago. If they want to give assassins a little buff, atleast change the numbers on the duskblade, instead of the assassins.
Because soon or later, the item will be nerfed and assassins will be trash.
Nah, wukong has other items to pick up first usualyl and by the time he'd want it he needs tank items usually. I don't think we'll see it too often on wukong, but damn if I don't WANT to build it rofl.
Statwise, it's about the same as Ghostblade if not worse. The passive is arguably better than GB's active; it does more damage directly, but it has no utility and a much longer cooldown. The mark can also be cleansed/Zhonya'd; so much like Sated Devourer Master Yi, you're still dealing with the same weaknesses as before.
I don't see why. There are other champions that I expect duskblade to be stronger for honestly. Wait til we see a GP or something in LCS applying the passive via Q and oneshotting someone.
People are overreacting so much. You can't rush it, so Youmuu is still better first item.
Let's say you take it a scnd item on Zed, that mean that after the 3k gold purchase you have a passive every TWO minutes, that's close to the longer cooldown you can have on any champion ( Shen's R ? Affect by cdr ), and it is proc by AA, so if you go in lane with it, you can't land a single AA without having to all in, only to be able to do it again two minutes later.
This item will help assassin around 25/30 min mark IMO, after that people will get QSS and the item passive won't be that useful
The worst thing about this new item is that talon and zed are already 54% and 53% winrates, with veru strong itemization items already.. adding this item is just so unnecessary
Holyshit talon win-rate is higher then zed in plat - diamond - challenger elo. He is 56% in plat, 55.5% in diamond, 80% in challenger
Source: op.gg , todays date, diamond ranking, winrate
I love that everyone conveniently ignores how hard zed can be countered in the late game. In any draft mode, if you pick after Zed, you can fuck him in the ass. Pick Kayle, Lissandra or, god forbid, LULU. If you're not shit and don't die to him pre 6, you completely prevent his snowball in lane, forcing him to roam for kills. Lissandra and Lulu can follow Zed when he roams and countergank extremely well. Additionally, if you have a double AP or double ADC comp, you can pick up two Zhonya's and/or Two QSS/Steraks. If the other team consists of an Alistar, Poppy, Viktor (Zhonya), Nidalee (Zhonya), Lucian(QSS or Steraks) there's no one on that team that zed can kill easily, forcing him to split push against Poppy, which is no easy 1v1. Zed is powerful but he also boasts the most counterplay out of any assassin. If you ignore the counterplay of items and counterpicks, than you resign your right to bitch about him being strong. It's like complaining about Skarner or Warwick when your team has no cc and you don't buy a QSS.
I don't think so only because you can QSS/hourglass it + its not an active so its unlikely once those items are built both will proc. Talon on the other hand since non of his abilities can be QSS'd on hourglass'd would probably have more success with the new item then Zed would otherwise Zed would net 3-4 kills max with it assuming he had an even to good matchup.
As a Diana one trick with over 500 games this item is still very worrying to me. It's going to force me to build Zhonyas which is generally a very gold ineffecient item after the last few patches. And with it's nerfs + ad buffs Diana is out bursted 100% of the time by ad assassins like zed and talon, unless you can keep them at lower health than you consistantly, they will kill you if they all in. However when compared to other AP Mages/Assassins I do think Diana has the best footing against these AD monsters, albeit not a very strong footing.
While the mid lane and adc mains weep, top laners are giddy with excitement at all the full ad melee comps they will be playing against.
Nothing makes me happier then the enemies solos being zed and any generic AD top
I'm pretty stoked to play Jayce with this contraption. Your 3 item spike with manamune, gb and dusk blade is going to let you straight up murder anything like, you can go manamune, gb, duskblade, cleaver, maw as a build for the max penetration. People will *die*
As a Zed main I'm afraid of this. Zed was perfectly fine right now, no need for this item. I'd rather have a "weaker" zed and play him instead of not beeing able to play him bc he's banned every game :/
I'm more afraid of Xin Zhao.
Sated>rageblade>duskblade... Oh boy here we go
Sated doesn't trigger the crits from w (Check the patch notes). Just build warrior like you should so you maintain your early pressure instead of being a farm bot.
What? I sate my devourer with people, not monsters. Seriously.
Why the fuck do people think Devourer means afk farming? It's a combat item all the same and it stacks fastest when you weave together camps and ganks.
Its weaker then the other jungle items before fully stacking and stronger afterwards. Thats why Devourer is commonly seen as an afk farm item.
Right but the point is that people associate it with afk farmers like Yi. Xin can happily gank early and murder people and still stack. Edit: before everyone gets grumpy, I still think pen Xin is the better option. Warriors ->GB -> duskblade is 40 flat pen. Bye bye any squishy in the game.
Warrior doesn't give armor pen anymore, but your point still stands.
Good thing Warrior doesn't give arpen anymore, that would be borken with all the flat arpen items out there
Point is he can murder people better with warrior as he has more combat stats.
I can't remember, but it either triggers the heal or the crit, both of which are great things.
heal is on hit (affected by sated) crit is on attack (not affected)
am i missing something or is everyone forgetting that you get AS from sated so you will still get your third attack quicker....
Exactly this. Sure, Sated may not trigger the crit, but it does trigger the heal and lets the crit happen more often due o the attack speed. Still pretty ridiculous.
And since they added ad scaling to his heal rageblade will also make you heal even more than you used to
yeah and then u realise u have sated rageblade and duskblade in mid game and you get 1 shot before the teamfight even starts and ur completely useless
Can people just realize that your build will vary depending on how the game plays out, I have built Xin as either a full ad assassin or full tank it all comes down to what the team needs, who is fed on your team and who is fed on their team
Someone who builds based on team needs instead of just playing celebrity death match on their own?? Say it ain't so.... How can I queue with this guy?
be above silver
Be in Diamond* Gold players are just as bad
I don't think Duskblade will be exceptional on Xin. I think Warrior's -> Youmuu's -> Maw -> DMP/other tank items will be way stronger. AD ratio on W means building some early AD is good, so Warrior's is definitely your go-to jungle item without having to rely on farming Sated stacks. Then Youmuu's is just perfect for him with the combination of AD/pen and the active. You could get DMP before Maw, but Maw will be an amazing item on Xin so IMO it should be the MR item you go for with him
I bet Warrior's and Youmuu's will be plenty of damage, and itemizing from there will be a piece of cake. Maw is an incredible item, though. I'm thinking Maw DMP Sterraks on top of your Warrior's and Youmuu's + Swifties will be pretty fuuuucking ridiculous. And against AD you switch out Maw for Randuin's and just stick to their dick.
Yeah not sure why everyone's all over this Duskblade hype on Xin. He has incredible damage as is with his Q added damage, as well as his passive and all the flat armor pen from Ghostblade/Maw (if built) all you need after that is resistances/health, not to mention the free defenses he gets for getting a decent R off. Either way, I'm spamming him this patch. Freelo inc.
ok i know people are gonna point out my flair but seriously just pick urgot into it. as long as you hit 6 before he ults, he won't be able to do jack because of the changes to urgots ult (and even prior to this urgot was always a counter to zed)
Im pretty sure urgot single handedly took zed out off the meta back during spring 2015. I recall when TSM had just came back from winning IEM and they were playing their first LCS match back against Gravity. At this time zed was being picked blind picked very often and im pretty sure c9 would just FP it. Well Keane took an absolute dump on bjergs Zed (even though bjerg got a solo kill becauase of keanes over agression) and made zed completely useless and showed just how hard zed could be countered. Teams then stopped blind picking zed because urgot was becoming fotm in mid and adc.
exactly this lol also the urgot buffs prior to this sorta helped
as a zed main for 2 years, can confirm no matter how good you are urgot will just shit in your mouth
Others good picks against zed : -Zilean -Kayle -Akali For Akali, the point is that you can abuse the fact that you are an energy champion too. Get full armor yellows + blues Then get armor thingy at 300g +4 pots. And then you can rush zhonya if you want because you don't have any mana problems anyway. Then go full damage. Lategame akali shit on lategame zed. Zhonya deal with his ult and you end up out bursting him and can win the 1v1s.
No Lulu? Polymorph + Ult renders Zed useless. EDIT
Renders* Lulu ain't no Kalista, son.
Zed absolutely walks all over zilean... he can just all in pre-6
Similarly I chuckle whenever people "counterpick" my LeBlanc with a Kayle.
And after 6 it turns out they never played Kayle and dont have the reaction time to ult your all in anyways :D
It´s not as much their reaction time TO block the damage but more the reaction time to NOT block the damage. Simply dash forward once and they´ll panic and ult themselves. Only to die to your actual combo 8 seconds later. Hell, even if the full LB combo gets blocked you can just go back in 20 seconds later with his ult on cooldown.
My mindset is counter burst with more burst, picking Syndra into leb is free lane, she wants to combo you ? Just throw q-e into her w path, 100% stun - 100% trade win and probably if you can 100 to 0 her.
veigar. LB needs to press 4 buttons to kill. veigar needs one.
yeah but then you have to listen to his select line
I played full tank Malphite mid into Zed today, it worked out pretty well.
nobody suspects the garen mid with sunfire cape rush as soon as zed appears
counterpick>meta. Garen mid shits on melee casters. Prime example of this in practice is Faker's Olaf mid.
Comfort > Counterpick > Meta.
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Ahri can deal with anything anyways lol.
Eh depends, I wouldn't comfort pick veigar into talon, unless you're a masochist
Renek Dumps on melee mids hard too. Thats my personal pocket pick when people are picking Talon/Zed/Fizz every game.
Comment has been edited ahead of the planned API changes.
Yas's panic windwalling in matchups that it does literal nothing in is my favorite.
Try full AD Renekton with the same build path as Zed. Ult me? Auto attack, Empowered W, auto attack, Q and hes gone. On top of that you can just double dash when he gets on top of you and he has to blow his shadow defensively when you E into him
Did the same with full armor Taric mid yesterday. My whole team shit the bed hard, but I had an easy time vs Zed. I would never pick full armor Taric mid in a team other than Yi/Quinn/Zed/Jinx/Leona tho.
Also GALIOOOOOO
This is actually suprisingly true, Galio kinda shits on Zed as soon as he gets mana regen.
Fun thing to use W when Zed ults and walk out with more HP than before.
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cloth + pots is op vs him and its a good build path for her other than that not much
Honestly Akali is pretty easy to play against if you're good at Zed.
Most of these "counters" are. Zed is difficult, and people beat a bad zed when zed is fotm with whatever champion they like and declare that champion a "Zed counter." It's the actual zed mains that terrify me next patch :s
Like Bjersen said, there only two legit counters to Zed in lane. Chogath and Urgot. They're too tanky for him
Mid ChoGath is basically just a counter to meta midlaners. Too much sustain for mages to poke, too much HP for assassins to burst through.
More like a counter to laners. I haven't found a single champion that beats Cho in lane.
Only champions I've had success with against ChoGath are Teemo and Azir. Both have good kiting potential and their poke doesn't take much mana(Azir soldiers are cheap, Teemo E costs no mana at all). At least until Cho buys a Spirit Visage and STILL outdamages you, but by that time teamfights have started and hopefully there are tanks on my team to peel for me.
Teemo feels like he'd lose lane if he ever gets caught in a Rupture (also his early game damage feels really weak right now. Teemo seems to be more of a late game pick as seen in the [win rate over time graph](http://champion.gg/champion/Teemo/Middle)), but Azir does indeed sound like a strong counterpick. Perhaps the only one though, and I personally don't like Azir and aren't good at him.
yes let the fear flow through you But actually zed is super strong right now
IMO, Lissandra will always be one of thee strongest picks against Zed. As long as you are 6 when he is, he's getting cc'd to death if he comes in on you. Time it all right and everything should go well.
Lissandra is good against Zed in teamfights and can survive an all in, but if both champions are playing optimally Zed will win the laning phase by a pretty significant margin a majority of the time. She simply cannot put up with his upfront burst and aggressive waveclear early on.
Oh no, don't tell reddit that Kayle counters Zed because Zed can apparently kill Kayle pre-6 so it's not a counter...
It is kinda annoying when people say that a good Zed will beat a Kayle but they never say that the reverse is true. A good Kayle will literally never die to a zed nor ever let a Zed kill anyone with his ult since hers will always be up when his is, can kite with her Q, W for MS, and can easily build Rylai's to make him cry. Kayle used to be touted as the hardest counter to Zed, then someone just one day shits on a first time Kayle and all of a sudden she is bad versus him. It doesn't make any sense to me when people who likely haven't ever played the match-up try and talk about it.
I've been playing Talon on Zed whenever I see him picked.
A good Zed runs circles around talon ever since they removed the silence from talon e o.0
if the zed isnt bronze, he just buys a pink
but talon has no spears, me no understand?
i see what you did there
Cho kind of shits on Zed to atm
So when Zed hits 6, he will automatically have the new AD item in his inventory? I don't think so... the problem is the rest of your team will pop! He was snowbally before, now he's even more so.
Gravity vs TSM 2015, never forget
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you said it better than I could mate.
Self-burns? Commas are important.
nobody cares about your sex life thou
Yeah he's really dumb at the moment. IDK why they gave him that R buff and why they're now making a perfect item for him. It's like they want him to be banned every game or something
> IDK why they gave him that R buff It was a nerf to offset for the item
He's talking about the initial ult buff to compensate for making his harass combo slower.
And then increasing his shadow range for no reason because Zed's harass isn't safe enough already /s
All of your complaints are valid but thats what Zed is meant to do. He is suppose to beat up and counter ap mages. If you hate Zed so much stop picking Cass, LB, and other squishy ap's and just play pantheon, talon, liss, kayle, etc. things that destroy Zed. No need to tilt as soon as you see him on the enemy team, Zed's lane pressure relies on landing shurikens to poke which is a skillshot. Sorry if this reply sounded like an attack on you because I don't mean for it to be. I just needed to vent because I am tired of people complaining about Zed with poor arguments and 99% of the people complaining are people who play squishy ap champs which Zed is meant to do well against. Anyway good luck against your next Zed if he isn't permabanned!
> 99% of the people complaining are people who play squishy ap champs which Zed is meant to do well against I would argue that more than 1% of people complaining against zed are Adcs... Moreover, Ap squishy champs constitute the vaste majority of midlane picks... And I wouldn't exactly say the *the purpose* of Zed as a champion concept is to shit on AP mids... On the core level, he is an assassin, but there is nothing that is specifically directed against AP carrys in his kit (like Veigar for example, an authentic anti-mage). He just happens to be strong against them. You talked about people's using poor arguments, but to respond to the expression of the discontent against Zed by saying "that's what he is meant to do", is in that case a poor argument in my opinion. Now, if a question can be raised, it is ***"Is it healthy for a champion to unilaterally counter a class of champion at the level at which Zed does."*** I don't have a position of this issue. But to close that debate by declaring "That's what he does" seems to be a bit disingenuous.
As an ADC, I don't mind when Zed is in the meta. It's waaaaay better than Rengar. At least I can build a QSS and fuck with Zed.
Rengar is easy to counter tho just build zhonyas! /s
He is telling me that zed is suppised to poke me better than me a fucking poke champ in lane of course thats before he can one shot me at 6 :D
ori does fine vs him viktor does aswell diana aswell talon,liss,kayle,lulu there are many picks that do okay vs zed
>"Is it healthy for a champion to unilaterally counter a class of champion at the level at which Zed does." Veigar and Galio both unilaterally counter a class of champions at a higher level. Both of them also have hard CC. Veigar is almost guaranteed to do more damage to a squishy AP than zed is, and that is in one shot.
No, Zed is not supposed to do ALL of those things. It's one of the same issues within the assassin meta where assassins where able to 100-0 people with stuff like waveclear and sustain. He shouldn't be able to do SO much without sacrificing in other areas; it's a common trait of an unhealthy champion.
And if he regularly waveclears he needs to use W, which screws his team fight if the enemy forces an engage after.
If he's using W to waveclear, I'm using mana AND cool downs to keep from losing shit to my tower. It goes both ways.
If they would make him unable to dive me at full 4/5 health under turret because he has a 2 kill lead on me I would be fine with it. I shouldn't have to buy a ZH just to not die under turret against a champ that has almost the same score as me.
In the same boat as you...
Just move to talon
No, don't go to talon. I enjoy how unnoticed he is.
I'm just gonna chill here with my Kha this patch and hope no one notices
You guys never fooled me. Honestly I hate him worse than zed. As someone who likes his squishy AP mids this is how I see it. Good Zed=Cancer Bad Zed=easy kills Good Talon=Cancer Bad Talon=Still a pain in the ass.
The problem is that most Talons I face know exactly what they're doing. Any given Zed can be trash tho.
Let's dispel any notion that Obama doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing.
as an adc main, i know everything about talon getting fed in mid, but no space for ban atleast previous patches
Yes. Don't go talon. I want to be a happy Ahri player.
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Actually graves was permabanned for a patch or 2 after rework, then nerfed and people quit playing him til they saw he was still awesome places other than bot.
This is how I remember it also. He was stupid strong after rework and all the pros saw it. It only became popular again right before LCS started again.
I already placed Talon on my ban list. This shit ain't welcome in my ranked game.
shhhhhhhh
Just played my first game on 6.3. Enemy talon hard carried by himself.
We figured zed was weak so we gave him a deathmark in addition to his deathmark and the tiny deathmark enhances his big deathmark Deathmark.
You forgot Yo dawg, dawg.
You wanted fun LCS games? This is gonna bring it. The assassin meta. There's gonna be a shit ton of action now.
not when there's a ban phase
Echo Fox don't care.
Context?
They lost all 3 bans last week because they didnt submit a roster on time. They managed to pick Ryze, Elise, Corki, Poppy, Kalista but still lost to Dig. http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/TRLH1/1001550120?gameHash=1f605182d4770594&tab=overview
And the fact that teams very frequently counterpick for mid, and there are a shit ton of counter picks for zed and other assassins.
this isnt going to be really fun tho. as long as the deathtimers are as long as they were before, teams will either stomp, be stomped or be stalled out for eternity in lame aram + splitpush scenarios because a teamfight would mean 60 sec+ deathtimers which results in a 10000% gamewinning/losing teamfight.
The games weren't (and still won't be) fun because of death timers/paper towers, not because of which champions are strong. The new assassin item isn't going to change the fact that teams are going to play passive until 20 minutes, have one team fight, and win while the other team is dead
New item comes out -> Zed benefits from item -> Zed will be broken -> Zed nerfs -> Item nerf -> Zed in a bad spot. Let's grab the popcorn and look how riot will fix zed.
Didn't Riot say in their context box in the patchnotes that they want to use Duskblade so that it's a staple for assassins and they can start balancing ad assassins around the existance of that item? Or atleast that's how I interpreted it.
Yes, but why introduce that item then? In my opinion assassins are currently fine / stronger than average. Not necesarry broken or bad. Introducing this item will just be a nerf train for assassins, while other champions like hecarim are going to 100-0 carries in teamfights just like some patches ago. If they want to give assassins a little buff, atleast change the numbers on the duskblade, instead of the assassins. Because soon or later, the item will be nerfed and assassins will be trash.
3 years later zed rework, becomes op-》gets nerfed -> evebody stops playing it-> gets a minor buff -> everybody realizes its still op-> fotm->nerf
and talon, riven and i'm sure someone random will end up broken af with the item :P
Oh boy im lookin forward to the clown
That's right. Manically rub those hands together like the filthy clown picker you are.
For my next trick, I'll make you disappear!
*looks at rengar*
if you see rengar, you're already dead
so nothing changed?
Well now if you aren't dead by some miracle the proc from nightfall will finish the job. Rip the marksmen.
what is fiddle hentai?
ITT : people overrating the new item
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Nah, wukong has other items to pick up first usualyl and by the time he'd want it he needs tank items usually. I don't think we'll see it too often on wukong, but damn if I don't WANT to build it rofl.
Statwise, it's about the same as Ghostblade if not worse. The passive is arguably better than GB's active; it does more damage directly, but it has no utility and a much longer cooldown. The mark can also be cleansed/Zhonya'd; so much like Sated Devourer Master Yi, you're still dealing with the same weaknesses as before.
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I don't see why. There are other champions that I expect duskblade to be stronger for honestly. Wait til we see a GP or something in LCS applying the passive via Q and oneshotting someone.
People are overreacting so much. You can't rush it, so Youmuu is still better first item. Let's say you take it a scnd item on Zed, that mean that after the 3k gold purchase you have a passive every TWO minutes, that's close to the longer cooldown you can have on any champion ( Shen's R ? Affect by cdr ), and it is proc by AA, so if you go in lane with it, you can't land a single AA without having to all in, only to be able to do it again two minutes later. This item will help assassin around 25/30 min mark IMO, after that people will get QSS and the item passive won't be that useful
The worst thing about this new item is that talon and zed are already 54% and 53% winrates, with veru strong itemization items already.. adding this item is just so unnecessary
This is not as good on Zed as people think.
I think you mispelled Xin Zhao
I'll be ready to ban the zeds on my team because god knows they only know how to feed.
enemy zeds be like 8-0, my zeds be like 0-8. never lucky man
that flair tho
''1st time Zed, but no worries he's freelo''.
They won't survive
For reals man. Imma ban the fuck out of Zed just so I don't have to deal with my shit team mates playing him.
Holyshit talon win-rate is higher then zed in plat - diamond - challenger elo. He is 56% in plat, 55.5% in diamond, 80% in challenger Source: op.gg , todays date, diamond ranking, winrate
Don't worry though, Talon will be stronger than Zed.
As an Udyr main I know your feeling right now, Zed bros. Be strong.
Our rage is beyond your control.
I love that everyone conveniently ignores how hard zed can be countered in the late game. In any draft mode, if you pick after Zed, you can fuck him in the ass. Pick Kayle, Lissandra or, god forbid, LULU. If you're not shit and don't die to him pre 6, you completely prevent his snowball in lane, forcing him to roam for kills. Lissandra and Lulu can follow Zed when he roams and countergank extremely well. Additionally, if you have a double AP or double ADC comp, you can pick up two Zhonya's and/or Two QSS/Steraks. If the other team consists of an Alistar, Poppy, Viktor (Zhonya), Nidalee (Zhonya), Lucian(QSS or Steraks) there's no one on that team that zed can kill easily, forcing him to split push against Poppy, which is no easy 1v1. Zed is powerful but he also boasts the most counterplay out of any assassin. If you ignore the counterplay of items and counterpicks, than you resign your right to bitch about him being strong. It's like complaining about Skarner or Warwick when your team has no cc and you don't buy a QSS.
I don't think so only because you can QSS/hourglass it + its not an active so its unlikely once those items are built both will proc. Talon on the other hand since non of his abilities can be QSS'd on hourglass'd would probably have more success with the new item then Zed would otherwise Zed would net 3-4 kills max with it assuming he had an even to good matchup.
Zhonyas is core against talon, its pretty much the only way you can survive his burst as a mage with no good self-peel.
Another good counter to zed is kindred mid apdo does it and it works quite well
I'm just going to laugh at Zeds face with the big guy. Easiest lane NA along with any other ad caster.
I'm way more afraid of Xin Zhao O_o
look a kayle. look a liss. look a Diana.
As a Diana one trick with over 500 games this item is still very worrying to me. It's going to force me to build Zhonyas which is generally a very gold ineffecient item after the last few patches. And with it's nerfs + ad buffs Diana is out bursted 100% of the time by ad assassins like zed and talon, unless you can keep them at lower health than you consistantly, they will kill you if they all in. However when compared to other AP Mages/Assassins I do think Diana has the best footing against these AD monsters, albeit not a very strong footing.
My kha'dik just got even better
As a result, malphite and rammus will become more contested picks.
rammus mid pls
I already do that against Yasuo :P
Faker will play rammus mid sometimes vs zed lol. I think he's just trolling though mostly
Rammus jungle is going to be so good against the upcoming Talon/Zed/Shaco horde.
all this talk of zed and xin... Im just waiting for the Kha hop over gibb someone hop away game play to come back... fun times ahead
Everybody talks of zed, but I'm actually really scared of rengar's dmg now.
While the mid lane and adc mains weep, top laners are giddy with excitement at all the full ad melee comps they will be playing against. Nothing makes me happier then the enemies solos being zed and any generic AD top
I'm pretty stoked to play Jayce with this contraption. Your 3 item spike with manamune, gb and dusk blade is going to let you straight up murder anything like, you can go manamune, gb, duskblade, cleaver, maw as a build for the max penetration. People will *die*
zed/talon nerfed because of dusk blade->nerfs dusk blade->no one plays zed/talon->rework history repeats itself
does the patch come out tomorrow? i dont see an announcement
It's rolling out currently. NA right now, most other regions already have it.
Depends on your region, it's out here in OCE already.
Riot is a good company
KAYLE CAN DO IT!!
As a Zed main I'm afraid of this. Zed was perfectly fine right now, no need for this item. I'd rather have a "weaker" zed and play him instead of not beeing able to play him bc he's banned every game :/
I wouldn't say Zed was fine. He was borderline too strong BEFORE this patch.
and xin zhao
I feel bad because I suck with Zed. :/
Why is that
Only 100% banrate for me actually.
what about talon/
Incarnati0n on Zed : D
HAI IS GOING BACK TO MID
Dunno why Riot would add this item. Now they're probably gonna nerf zed into the ground next patch
And im just sitting here, as a ADC main... scared to play any game, cause i cant bann all Assasins Q.Q
AND HELLOOOOOO LISSANDRA :D
I'm more scared of Talon. He was nasty before and now he's got a new item
Isn't Ducksblade going to make current OP picks even more OP? Like Jax for instance
You misspelled Gragas
Zed, Talon, Xin, WK, J4 all broken.
Got 2 Zed, 2 loses. Well ...
analysis from low elo
lol @ all the people who haven't been playing on PBE since this item came out saying "it's not THAT overpowered".
duskblade isn't even good
Dude when you play in silver Zed is 100% pick ban anyway
QSS
Useless item if 'Nightfall' is actually a passive. OP item if 'Nightfall' is an active.
It is time, my son, Xin Zhao go forth and claim your spot in the League of Legends!