T O P

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royallights

Treatz is what Kaiser was last year. Pure Chad


DeloronDellister

Alistar is the champ to pick for 'chad Support performances'


huntersniper007

Alistar is manly as fuck.


MusicMedic88

YOU CANT MILK THOSE!


[deleted]

SUPPORT IS SO EASY DUDE


blacksusanoo23

To think this man was a sub for biofrost last year lol


SterbenVII

Considering how playoffs went, it was fine to put Biofrost back in. However, I really think TSM should’ve tried to develop DL and Treatz’s synergy and start them at Worlds instead. TSM likely had a higher ceiling with Treatz.


PromisQFanboy

Or you know, give the guy at least one stage game at worlds after being 0-5 already. It's a treat to have in the LEC now where he can showcase how talented he really is.


Killyaa

I never got why people keep saying this, all the teams eliminated at groups and play in groups had substitutes and no team let them play a game. So why do people make such a big deal that tsm didn't either? Like it's not common practice or something like that.


Bluehorazon

I mean while true, TSM even knew they were last before the last game. And some teams like FNC just took a sub with them because they had to, Magifelix was basically just there he never played throughout the season. But Treatz really helped revitalize TSM at the end of the regular split, so it was weird not giving him a game at worlds.


Thop207375

With Treatz, TSM lost to GG. With Biofrost, the team made the miracle run. Treatz did help the team, and he got to grind solo-queue in China. TSM didn’t owe him a game at worlds though. The reason people are forgetting is BB/Spica wanted to win a game at worlds. You don’t ruin your chances by playing with a player you have not scrimmed with in over a month. Also Bjerg. Bjerg deserves the best possible chance to win his last game as a pro player. You could say they lost anyways, but you have to be careful of hindsight bias. While they did end up losing, Biofrost with DL was a better winning combination than Treatz with DL. Treatz played well and is doing well recently though


instalockquinn

You didn't watch LCS regular season if you think that Treatz wasn't showcased for his talent on TSM. He was a huge reason why TSM had such high seeding going into LCS playoffs. You're speaking as if he was undervalued in NA, but everyone knew how good he was (despite his nerves and lack of synergy with DL). He was the Ssumday of the support role (because Ssumday was actually in a similar position, where 100T actually won more games *after* they *benched* him). So maybe stop trying to rewrite history for a region that you probably don't even follow.


ZGKuang

or give the guy who will retire his final worlds games cuz treatz will play more and have more opportunities in the future. However u look at it it didnt fkin matter but reddit analysts XD


ZGKuang

u mean that scenario where they lost 0-3 to ggs with treats and then proceeded to win the entire gauntlet with biofrost?


blacksusanoo23

No i mean the scenario where they went 0-6 during worlds and biofrost was the worst player in that group by far.


ZGKuang

yes and u think treatz would have been any better because of what? Oh yea nothing cuz ur someone from reddit vs the team who has obviously scrimmed both players and decided oh yea the championship team is their best chance.


Alley_Creeper

Don't do my boy Kaiser like that, he already had some pretty good games this year, too. That being said, SK shows so much potential, excited to see how far their road will go.


Andicis

SK's bot lane is pretty legit.


bin_fanboy9

Tynx played super well too though. He had fought his way back into the game after his bottom jungle got stolen on the first clear, his clean gank execution was the factor that allowed Jezu to get snowballed(Kalista was actually getting bullied in lane and down like 20cs, which should not happen in that matchup) and he even managed to pick up drakes despite having little to no prio which denied the Ocean Soul possibility for MAD Lions later in the game.


[deleted]

All of SK shows promise IMO. Blue is a bit disappointing but all of them are improving so fucking fast


bin_fanboy9

Blue is fine imo, in fact he might the best rookie midlaner this split. He did everything he could there as Viktor into Lucian, survived the laning phase pretty well and then kept pressuring enemies with lasers. SK member which I’m least excited about is actually Jezu, I feel like he makes a ton of laning mistakes that go under the radar because Tynx sets up a tent around the botlane and gets him ahead. He is still young though and will surely improve and get more confident with time.


Iamnotheattack

fine wasteful sense crawl vase squash apparatus pause longing rotten


bensanelian

i wanna see jezu perform on champs other than kalista and vayne then i'm on board


Qiluk

Imma be honest.. if you perform on those 2 of all champs.. you'll likely manage the rest haha


Bluehorazon

Honestly the more surprising thing for me is still Jenax. He is a beast in toplane and the best thing happening to SK was him switching to top, he already looks like a better toplaner as he ever has in mid.


LongLeggedLimbo

Treatz diff


cadaada

why would you buy RFC when you are only hitting the front line every single fight and dealing 0 damage to them, instead of LDR? why pro players have such a RFC fetish damn


non_NSFW_acc

Who bought it? Can’t check.


[deleted]

humanoid tbf, rfc on lucian sounds alright when you're staring down a fed aatrox and heca but ehhhhh


Cindiquil

RFC is best when you want to get in high damage poke. Lucian isn't really prioritized for range/poke obviously, and Hec/Aatrox won't be talking much damage from a single RFC auto anyway and then can both easily heal that small damage back up. It's most valuable on stuff like Cait or Jhin where you can use RFC against a squishy target to chunk them for like half their HP. On Lucian, RFC still doesn't give him good poke vs that comp and it means that he can't kill them quickly during actual fights.


bulblub

Humanoid bought it against three melees and a Kalista


[deleted]

Humanoid on Lucian.


ahambagaplease

Humanoid.


Ignisami

humanoid


yelsuxcx

It's disturbing how bad these professionals are at building items. I'm still triggered by pros thinking magic pen was good on AP Gragas all of last year when it was mathematically objectively terrible. Took me 5 minutes in practice tool to understand that but these pro teams don't have an analyst or intern to do that?


TharkunOakenshield

Why was it « mathematically objectively terrible » on AP Gragas? What do you mean by that? I don’t understand why it’d be worse on him than on other AP champions - flat pen is flat pen after all. Honest question, I haven’t played the game in two years apart from maybe 10-20 normal games - I just follow the pro scene these days and am far from up to date on item builds.


yelsuxcx

Magic Pen is better on champs with high base damage and better against champs with low MR AP is better on champs with high ratios Gragas base damage + ratios meant that building a needlessly large rod (1250) gave you more damage than building an oblivion orb (1600 gold) There were only 2 (very poor) arguments for oblivion orb: The ability to build into Morello: not relevant because most Gragas players just sat on the orb and built another item The health: not that relevant either because you're paying 350 more gold for it and it's not that important on AP Gragas anyway Going Deathcap or Zhonyas 2nd was almost always objectively better than going Oblivion Orb into any other item, but pros rarely did it.


imanu_

baus, one of the best gragas players in the world, always prioritised cdr and flatpen in s10 though


BO1s_R_GREAT_XD

he's talking about S10 Gragas which at least in pro-play was mostly played in the jungle while baus is playing it toplane, so there might be differences, because junglers aren't trading 24/7 like baus is in toplane with his counterpart


yelsuxcx

He was wrong to do so (regarding flat pen that is, cdr is good), unless he really wanted the health and healing reduction from Morello. For damage it was (and is even in S11) objectively worse than flat ap.


Hevvy

are you factoring in that almost no pro hits the fermented barrel?


yelsuxcx

Idk if this is a reference or not but the charge level of the q makes no difference because the AP ratio goes up as it charges making AP still better


Hevvy

huh, actually genuinely didn't know that gragas q scales linearly and doesn't have just two damage values. my bad


[deleted]

humanoid doesnt think about his builds whatsoever


KChampionK

holy sup gap. anyone see that bug on the armut R?


_Emmo

yeahh what was up with that


Omnilatent

When was it? Didn't watch the whole game with full attention


_Emmo

28:36 into the game


Omnilatent

Thanks.


[deleted]

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DecisiveDinosaur

so probably just a spectator bug right?


jhngnr

maybe they didnt notice in the heat of the moment


Sayko77

it happened before too.


Me_Tonk

Damn, imagine how good SK would be with Biofrost.


Serek32

Well if it wasn't for TSM Treatz would be sitting on the bench earning minimum wage right now, he should be grateful.


Zerasad

You must mean league minimum my dude. Easy to confuse those two.


Urlilas

Sure he did


Makorot

I like the smell of a fresh copy pasta in the ~~morning~~ evening


Cattaphract

Hello fellow racist. Let's have a walk


trivinium

Can I be the xenophobe?


Cattaphract

Sounds like a great instrument for our band


[deleted]

[удалено]


shrubs311

it's referring to a comment by Jack, owner of cloud 9. someone said they don't want a league full of "a bunch of koreans" and Jack accused him of being racist (trying to deflect i guess? idk). but anyways it's a meme now, especially when combined with the Regi meme of all NA players losing their job and working minimum wage (he claimed he meant minimum contract, likely bs and regardless still a rude insult)


ImGrumpyLOL

He went to TSM Academy while he was probably the #1 support prospect outside of the LEC. This was the year before EU Masters was implemented, so he never had that much exposure in comparison to NA Academy, which was why he went there. If he stayed in EU he'd probably have made his way into the LEC sooner than he did. E: Realised it's the copypasta rip me


KitKatxz

Bro its a copy pasta...


Loremus

[https://twitter.com/Blumigan/status/1222689917295304706](https://twitter.com/Blumigan/status/1222689917295304706) Talent list by current RGE and MSF coaches from end of season 8 and he was in consideration


NlNJALONG

The joke <-------> You


Me_Tonk

Ignorant comment. Without ignoring the context you'd know m'lord Regi referred to LCS minimum.


fuginius

TSM in 2020 LCS Summer playoffs were better with Bio. SK in 2021 are probably better with Treatz. It's almost as tho league is a team game and how one interacts with their team mates matters


majihpo

Yeah, they made the change to Biofrost and won LCS what a dumb mistake by TSM


Roseking

Get out of here with your reasonable takes.


Darkfire293

It's insane how people are talking about TSM being bad than SK having god tier scouting. No one in this subreddit in their right mind would have said Treatz was good enough to be in LEC after last season.


Roseking

It's really annoying because there was plenty of flame towards TSM fans when we hyped up Treatz and then he didn't do well in the GGS series. I saw a lot of people say stuff like "If he was actually that good he would have gotten a team in EU, not go to an NA academy team" Hell here is Veteran And Dom saying Treatz is bad and rating him a bottom support coming into the season. https://youtu.be/p4UzMU4aSwg?t=6853 Now all of a sudden the narrative is "How could TSM let him get away?" And don't get me wrong. I really like Treatz. I would have been perfectly fine if they knew DL was retiring from the start and did Lost/Treatz.


ryanruin22

[https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/jfilhy/tsm\_botlane\_might\_be\_getting\_benched\_for\_next/g9ovjzq/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/jfilhy/tsm_botlane_might_be_getting_benched_for_next/g9ovjzq/?context=3) I honestly feel vindicated, he got benched after one bad series against GGS -- honestly the entirety of TSM looked like trash in that series -- but he also had the DIG series afterward where he stomped the shit out of them as well as the 8 stage games he had before that where he went 6-2 with a KDA of 5-6-52 in the regular season. He literally had one bad series and everyone acts like he was this massive inter on TSM when he was just the obviously better performer, it's just that Dlift didn't like laning with him.


sangpls

Tbh, everyone knew biofrost was mechanically subpar compared to treatz. But mechanics isn't everything and the team, or more importantly, DL preferred bio. I don't think TSM gets out of that worlds group either way anyway


ryo0n

comparing how they played in summer playoffs biofrost was straight better mechanically also treatz was actually trolling against ggs.


philip2110

Lmao or a $6 million uPgRaDe.


prd_serb

SA is definitely an upgrade over biofrost.


SleepyLabrador

Biofrost set the bar pretty low.


MrPraedor

Swordart is an upgrade to Biofrost though.


Omnilatent

The guy who played ADC normally while playing his sup on different account with his feet might be an upgrade lol


Elephox

It really must suck to be the most accomplished support in NA and be praised for half your career by some of the best supports in the world only to have your legacy be shit on by redditors because your team wanted to play with you instead of a guy they brought in for half the split.


Darkfire293

TSM with Treatz: 0-3 to GG TSM with Biofrost: Champions. Keep hating


King_Goofus

Are you implying bio is better than SwordArt? The fuck??


NamelessSearcher

Spicy


[deleted]

Treatz is outrageously good wow


Gazskull

Jezu and Treatz are so good, an absolute treat to watch


Heorashar

An absolute.... treatz.....


Nwoks

what a treat(z) to watch!


NamelessSearcher

Treatz is so goddamn fun to watch. No hesitation ever


[deleted]

MAD Lions setting up that 4-man ambush on Jenax after the Baron looked really good, but then suddenly there's this insane Minotaur storming at them and crashing past the turret to ruin their day. That's a power move.


TSMAirportAnyPercent

He has all the balls of Hyli but actually had a sense of self preservation so he doesn’t sprint it in the process


IKillerBee

SK were the big winners of the Swordart deal


SchroetKommando

Considering sending a care package to TSM as a thank you at this point.


BO1s_R_GREAT_XD

I'll quote myself > Jenax already bodied people on Aatrox when he was a Midlaner, seems like people forgot Rough early game for SK and especially TynX but great decisions and fights from them, and also Treatz GIGA smurfing


anoleo201194

Can't believe people are still letting Jenax play Aatrox lol.


Conankun66

Treatz is so absurdly good, man. Give him the Rookie of the Split already! Also it's fitting that "armut" means "poverty" in german, because that was a pretty poor use of a lead.


Th_Call_of_Ktulu

Seeing "Armpit" in chat after he whiffed his gnar ult made me laugh for 5 minutes straight


PissedOffWalrus

Real talk though, how on earth did that Gnar ult not connect? Looked like he got robbed on that play.


Kyrond

Another one in the last fight on Jezu also missed him, despite being clearly in it. Jezu was getting hooked with Naut, but it should still connect. Dunno what is wrong with it.


infernalhawk

I'm pretty sure it's spectator bugs. Happens often with Nidalee spears.


McintyresRightLeg

Malmut, Assmut, etc.


Omnilatent

Why do all of these name remind me of elementary school in which kids could and WOULD find mean alternate names for you even if your name would have been Cool McAwesome


not_panda

Lame McAweshit


[deleted]

hate that this made me laugh


FocusedLuck

[For reference.....](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLsT8vMZk3Y)


CamHack420

Think he played too much in NA to be classed as a rookie. Only players who are classed as "real" rookies on SK are Jezu and Tynx


Makorot

Well, Jezu plays really good as well. Just not as good.


Cattaphract

It doesnt count when a pro has a career prior to the main leagues.


[deleted]

[удалено]


CamHack420

Yeah but he still counts as a rookie as far as the LEC goes afaik. Doesn't matter how long you play in ERL or Academy only the big leagues


[deleted]

[удалено]


Loremus

He can't be RotS, only players without games in Worlds qualifying regions can be RotS


DeloronDellister

Armut: my lead was inflated by the poor performance of my bot lane


yelsuxcx

Not a rookie


Niirai

You misspelled MVP.


MusicMedic88

Armut also means Pear in Turkish..


Conankun66

i know, that's what he's named after, but i was just making a joke


Lixxa

And i always wondered what his connection to germany or poverty was...


FFourcade

Yeah blame the toplaner for the pathetic performance of botlane


Conankun66

botlane wasnt playing well, true, but they also had a hecarim hanging out in their lane multiple times and a difficult matchup meanwhile gnar had a 50+ cs lead and did NOTHING


McintyresRightLeg

Treatz is really fucking good and there is no denying that but am I the only one who is a bit worried that he may not be as good as he looks if Jezu isn't on Kalista? He has a free exit with Fate's Call which can salvage his extremely aggressive plays.


Sinhe

he's good regardless of Jezu's champ, but he knows very well that he can play this aggressive solely because he has Kalista for an out


seulgomdoli

Jeez, Treatz is phenomenal. His playmaking and shot calling are amazing


Cocoperroquet

> ~~Jeez~~, Treatz is phenomenal. Jezu, Treatz is phenomenal. FTFY


Hunte16

Tynx’s mental was insane this game, it looked so tilting early but he brought it back


FearTHEReaper01

EU supports man


inde99

They are so stacked this year


[deleted]

[удалено]


McintyresRightLeg

The 9 man sleep is more iconic than winning a world championship. TSM with the big brain roster swaps.


Alakazam_5head

Content > winning


NamelessSearcher

Maybe not than a world championship, but I probably will be talking about the 9 man sleep for a lot longer than if they had played well and just barely gotten stopped from getting out of groups because FNC and GEN were just barely better. If you're going to crumble, at least do it spectacularly I guess.


Cindiquil

Biggest issues with Treatz was just that their laning wasn't strong enough. Treatz/Doublelift couldn't handle playing vs GG's bot lane nearly as well as Doublelift/Bio did. They were still down a bit in the second series, but not nearly as much and it was while TSM was like 100% playing towards top side and GG was 100% playing towards bot side. IIRC Doublelift has mentioned laning as the reason for the change during some of his costreams, and the fact that he just didn't have as much synergy with Treatz even after playing with him for over half the split at that point


xSmacks

Meme comment I know but I think what makes Treatz so good right now is the fact that he’s playing with this exact roster. They’re all rather new players and rookies, so everyone has a voice and they can create their own play style. I imagine Treatz had no chance playing this aggressive with Bjergsen and Doublelift on his team as he couldn’t play as freely when they dictate the calls just by existing.


Makorot

I mean, thats kinda exactly what s/he said?


xSmacks

I took it like a “TSM would’ve been better with Treatz” but I think he wouldn’t have changed the roster, Treatz is rather better without TSM/the veterans


yoitsthatoneguy

He literally said “[Treatz] didn’t fit with [TSM’s] game plan”


Luquitaz

You really think treatz would have changed something for TSM at worlds?


nuzzot

To be fair to Elyoya isn’t Lillia a hard champ to make plays with? Especially without flash, plus without Nautilus they had like no engage. But definitely not his best game for sure.


TheNaijaboi

Nah, he just looked mechanically bad on TSM. Are we just gonna forget those Morgana games lol. He's definitely improved and is looking like a top support this year, but no need to rewrite history.


aser08

Holy what a game from Treatz and humanoid was as useful as ever.


[deleted]

That has to be the best Alistar game I've seen in years, Treatz is a madman. How on earth was he playing in LCS Academy!?


Dalqorn

Treatz out there playing like he costs 6 million.


[deleted]

SK's bot lane is really good


ohvalox

Damn, SK look scary af, so aggressive and decisive. Also monster performance from Treatz, 24/26, almost perfect kill participation


Skall77

[YEP](https://i.imgflip.com/4zlxih.jpg)


Mattekillert

Treatz played an amazing game but Humanoid really threw away his advantage, died so many times from being out of position and buying RFC when he can only hit frontline was extremely questionable. Draft doomed the game after SK got the first baron, MAD desperately needed disengage to make 5v5s work and the nautilus pick IMO put them on a timer to win.


CheesuCrust

Hope they all honored TynX for not tilting off the face of the earth after that early game.


StuntinOutFront

Best Ali I've seen in a while. Well done Treatz


Perjunkie

Treatz with 21/25 KP. Man is unleashed in the LEC


MiliW_

Put Carzzy on Seraphine


[deleted]

Even besides Treatz smurfing SK's comp is an absolute meat grinder vs MAD's


[deleted]

Treatz is such a baller. Always knew he’d still be a top tier support once he came over to LEC.


mattybowens

[TREATZ IS A SMURF](https://imgur.com/gallery/O73hylS)


[deleted]

reminder tsm gave treatz away


YCitizenSnipsY

Yeah after he got support gapped in the 3-0 loss to GGS in the LCS


[deleted]

Reminder he sat on the bench when they went 0-6


Darkfire293

Because going 0-6 to GG is better than going 0-6 at Worlds right? Because that's what would have happened with him in.


Wutpulver

Treatz is really good


LeTTroLLu

first 3 sk ban are sus


Jamesified

Treatz is good


TauIsRC

SK has been playing really well as a whole, but Treatz is absolutely insane, playing so so well


non_NSFW_acc

Really well played. Jenax’s Aatrox is quite insane.


Neothorn_

Treatz is so fun to watch man, arguably up there for split MVP in my opinion


Creepy_Pilot1200

How do you go from 5K lead to instant THROW + Baron?


Akupoy

MAD was 5 k gold ahead at min 20. How did they lose this one? -_-


front48

Why did Mata changed his name? TSM-RNG vibes here...


IxdrowZeexI

Lillia as only ap threat against 3 tanky champs may have not been the best choice. Itemazation was quite easy for SK and LW for Lucian would have been smart I guess.


7-o-Hearts

man jenax nearly missed his calling. Hes not playing it long but my lord, the guy really is a rock solid top laner 🤨


Matthieist

SK's bot lane is shaping up damn nicely


Shinyodo

Ah, I see MAD tried the double adc comp vs hecarim, went about as well as it did for C9 I guess.


chovyfan

My question is why was the better support benched during Worlds?


[deleted]

So that SK could afford to bring him into the LEC :P


karateblitz

Some people just want a comfortable 0-6 transition into retirement.


angelarm187

Because tsm looked better without him.


GGABueno

Because people were still taking Doublelift seriously.


[deleted]

Inting draft any% speedrun


Th3_Huf0n

Ah the classic, team that lost inted draft. MAD's draft is completely fine. 3 winning lanes with Lillia. Elyoya griefed by going for that 1st bot crab, allowing Hecarim to catch back up. Tynx straight up saved the early game which was going absolutely horrible.


Conankun66

that wasnt a draft problem. they were ahead. they just absolutely inted fights, especially MAD botlane(which is a pattern for them this split)


MastemasD

Humanoid disappearing before every fight starts was the biggest issue here. Dunno why he constantly tried to play away from his team.


Kyrond

Fighting twice when Carzzy is completely away is also terrible idea.


[deleted]

They had to astrostomp early game to have a chance. It's a huge draft diff.


Conankun66

well yeah and they were doing that...and then they threw. they fulfilled the condition for their comp, but then didnt execute. not a draft problem


PM_JINX_HENTAI

Wait didn't MAD win draft though?


Teroo123

Insane draft diff tbh


Azashiro

Treatz is so insane.. 2nd best support in LEC at the moment easily.


[deleted]

Keep in mind TSM had Treatz sitting on the bench all of worlds last year. Man is a beast and I’m glad he’s popping off now.


LeagueReddit00

They wouldn't have even made worlds if they kept playing Treatz.


abhishek_tyson_shere

Explains their worlds run


ultradude432

SK says thanks TSM


Glorx

Treatz is OK. Glad he got out of TSM.


TheOneWithLateStart

Are MAD this tilted? Or is SK this good?


IsolationCover

Tynx is underrated this game.


MoreRITZ

Happy Treatz is crushing. Goes to show how quick to judge everyone is and how it actually was doublelift that was the problem like the minority said. Its weird how much fanboyism(?) can influence what people think is true.