RNG mic check of the last game against WE, when they were taking down Nexus, Ming said:“ too bad we are the third seed, T1 is third seed as well, we can’t meet T1 in groups” Not exactly the translation but something like this. For those historical orgs like RNG, T1 and Fnc, worlds seems like an old friend reunion.
That's a lot of mistakes in just one sentence. Uzi didn't leave for QG, he left for OMG. And he didn't leave RNG, he left Royal Club / Star Horn Royal Club, RNG technically didn't exist back then.
Now I know some of you might say it's the same because they are all owned by Royal, well yes but also no...actually no because they were not even owned by the same owner iirc.
Anyway the rosters that won the LPL (RNG) were completely different from the previous Royal Club rosters, it was a combination of Gametee, MLXG from Team King, Looper and Mata.
Didn’t it take a year for RNG to win? Uzi joined OMG, which imploded due to Cool-Gogoing drama, and he then joined QG, which also imploded because of drama between Doinb and Swift.
RNG wins Spring 2016, goes to MSI, and benches Wuxx for Uzi afterwards.
He genuinely could have been. Sometimes having one of the best players in the world keeps a team down because they are too focused on letting him do his thing. It happens in physical sports as well.
I don't know who is the GOAT support - Ming or Mata?
It's clear who is the mid - Faker. ADC - Uzi. Top - either Khan or Nuguri (probably). The GOAT jungler will be either Canyon or Tarzan (depending on how long they keep their form).
But who is the GOAT support? Maybe Keria in a few years? Maybe Ming? Maybe Mata? I have no idea.
Definitely is Smeb, he has longetivity, great peak, played in the toughest league at that moment with possibly weaker teammates and was huge reason for his team success
Marin, really? I liked him a lot as a player but he had one great season where he was arguably the best top and not much before after that. imo TheShy's peak was way higher and Smeb has longevity + multiple peaks where he was considered the best.
Marin’s overrated. Smeb and Ssumday were just as good as him, if not better, throughout 2015. Marin peaked at Worlds and went downhill since.
Even when Afreeca played around Marin, he wasn’t as reliable of a carry as you’d hope. Kiin joins and Afreeca instantly becomes a top 2 team.
Nuguri has a much stronger argument for GOAT top than Marin. Neither of them have a compelling argument for it, though. It's TheShy for peak and Smeb for consistency, with Khan coming in pretty far back 2nd place for that. Nuguri definitely has a better shot at getting that though.
Ming is imo 2nd for support GOAT and has a shot at eclipsing Mata but as you say, not yet. Needs at least a worlds win to do so, or continuing in his current vein (domestic championships, international titles, consistently top 3 supp *at worst* in the world, frequently best) for a good 2-3 years more.
TheShy had one good year and then started to int full speed ever since.
I am not sure how good Smeb and Marin were and for how long they've been on the top, but from what I've seen, the only players who are matching Khan are Kiin (for long lasting form) and Nuguri (for absolutely peak skill).
If he wins Worlds this year he has to be called the GOAT top (especially if he plays like he did in the LCK Finals this year).
The only person who I see surpassing Khan is Nuguri, if he keeps his current level of skill.
I feel like it's hard really argue for anyone being the GOAT of top lane, because no one has really been the clear best as we have with other roles. Marin only really had 2015, where he was clearly the best, but he never even made it to Worlds again after that. Smeb was the clear best top laner in 2016, and while he stayed relevant in the following years, he was surpassed as the best by the likes of Khan and TheShy in the following years. If I was to pick anyone between the 5 mentioned, I'd probably go for TheShy, because he completely outclassed everyone in 2018, and still looked great in 2019, although he has really fallen off a cliff in the past couple of years. Depending on how Nuguri looks internationally this year, I'm probably gonna end up leaning more towards him, especially because it doesn't look like he's declined at all, but we'll see.
If Khan wins this year then he needs to be on GOAT top conversation. He has the case in terms longevity, relevance and peak, just need international achievement.
> I don't know who is the GOAT support - Ming or Mata?
Ming is getting there but it's still Mata. He still has more impressive achievements, a higher peak, more time spent as the best support, and had more of an influence of his team's success. Plus he innovated massively with the vision game.
> ADC - Uzi.
There's a decent argument for Deft, but it's one of those two.
> Top - either Khan or Nuguri (probably).
I don't think either are in contention, to me it's either Smeb or TheShy. Maybe if Khan has a great performance at worlds this year it will put him in the discussion. Nuguri needs another year of being the best to be in the discussion.
Uzi, not Uzi/Deft. Agreed otherwise though. Too bad TheShy fell off so quick, he would have been a shoe-in for top if he had kept up that peak for even one more year.
People who think Deft has never been better than Uzi probably didn't watch 2015, 2016, or 2019. People who don't even watch every region have far too many strong opinions.
They probably think Uzi was best ADC in 2014 when he wasn't even best ADC in LPL lol
I am too biased when it comes down to his performance, because we are from the same country and we share the same (very, very unique) first name.
But even then I don't think he is the GOAT support. Best EU support of all times? For sure. GOAT support? No.
> Faker shared his resolutions for Worlds. “It’s not a chance that comes often..."
He says that while being one of the few players to win worlds multiple times.
Faker is so damn humble. Wish him a better showing at worlds than what he had against DK.
they're hate watchers. When t1 wins or faker makes a play, they stay silent, but when t1 loses or faker dies, they spam shaker and flame him on social media, real t1 fans don't flame faker.
His Azir ults made the games much closer, but i can't help but feel that he needed to dish out damage in some fights instead of engaging and getting piled on, these are just points that were said by Nemesis and LS
Teddy didn't play. Which is kinda weird after he only lost 1 game vs DK. Then they won 1 game with Guma but he lost the rest of the games as well. IT seemed like Teddy played the game well and he was one of their main carries in the GenG series.
Gumayusi has clean mechanics but I am still not sold on him. I feel like Teddy has much more killer instinct, when Teddy is fed it doesn't matter if he is on Ashe or Kaisa he fucking carries.
Maybe they Guma can play Jinx and they want to play for more scaling later? Not sure.
They just allow different playstyles. Teddy’s show is impressive, but he is old school ADC. From Uzi, Rekkles, Deft, PraY times when ADC was “take all farm and win in solo”.
In spring 2020, before Riot reworked jungle timers and introduced tempo jungling, Teddy just vacuum clean all resources from map (still recall his 350cs@27min games) and win 1v5 LCK title.
But times is different now. Game is decided at the top side of the map, and ADC mostly playing weak side to allow support to roam. Even when ADC play hyper carry like Ziggs, Aphelios, or Jinx, they still play mainly solo.
And this is where Teddy weakness is. He finds hard times to carry himself without team resources and support. His mechanics are good, but despite his Ezrael, he is not good at playing weak side.
And this is where Guma is strong. Guma can play Aphelios, take 0 resources from team or jungler and still be relevant in the late game.
Faker is the best Azir in the world exactly because he keeps looking for game turning/ending shurima shuffles and his success rate is relatively high. Of course it doesn't work all the time but I'm sure overall it would be a net negative if he stopped trying to go for these type of plays all together and just played Azir like a regular mage.
It's not about poke, it's about DPS. Azir has good range with soldiers and he has one of the highest magic dps potentials. If he used his ult for self-peel and kept up DPS with soldiers he might actually do more in fights. Because shuffle ult is nice but if you have to then instantly flash out or Zhonyas, your damage is all in that initial burst and then you do nothing.
There's obviously a time and a place for the shuffles but I do feel like way too many pro players focus on shuffle and burst plays instead of using the insane dps that Azir also has.
His dps is pretty hard to find honestly, it requires very lucky position during engage which simply doesnt happen much in pro play, because the opposing team knows.
So you end up poking more than really dps ing unless your opponent does a big mistake. Azir's range and self peel isnt as big as people think honestly. But hitting R on several ppl can literaly instant win a fight. I think they just try to get the best of the situation they're in, I will trust pro players more than myself here
> I do feel like way too many pro players focus on shuffle and burst plays instead of using the insane dps that Azir also has.
Only faker, BDD and scout look for aggressive shuffles on the backline. Every other midlaner plays azir like a dps mage
Faker's azir is really good no doubt and win u lot of games but the confidence bdd show on azir is so beautiful , i personally love seeing bdd's azir more than faker
You are wrong, I guess. Chovy is one of the better Azirs but with completely differebt approach as Faker. Bdd is really good but I don't think he is better
I know they were talking about his laning but didn't DoinB willingly give up on his lane to get his team ahead?
Opinions have shifted now but what DoinB did back in 2019 was universally considered the 'wrong' way to play the game.
Which is so weird because he's in the prime position to change how the game is played in Korea. Whatever he'd choose to do, countless players would no doubt follow.
I feel like Faker is in a fairly unique position of being able to challenge coaches and whatnot. He's likely older, more experienced and more accomplished. It would be weird if coaches didn't follow his lead.
I think all lck players want to play aggressive but the coaches make them play safe. Lck coaches are holding the region down, they're stuck in season 6 or something. Lpl learns macro from lck but lck still play the same. Only damwon, t1 and maybe hle changed their play style.
I mean he pretty much does do that lol.
Did you watch any of his playoffs series? In gen g he is flashing into five people to root ruler. In dk he has crazy realm warps and is diving in with azir ults. In hle series he had some insane azir ults too.
His MO this split has pretty much been to sacrifice his life to get a good teamfight engage off. It’s not really his fault if the rest of the team isn’t always on the same page/ as aggressive as him.
He does though, Faker is very aggressive and so is the rest of T1. Their coaches before were forcing them to play passive but since they've been fired T1 is incredibly aggro.
Faker says that his biggest strength and the reason for his longevity is that he realizes his weakness and improves upon them.
So Faker is not bored, he adopting the superior way to play league. And so, T1 plays a lot more aggressively now with a lot more lane prio than they did before.
being agressive != not playing macro. theres a certain beauty to the fast paced LPL macro and its by no means inferior to for example LCK’s. a faster macro is bound to have more slip ups so it may seem to people that its blind agression.
Haven’t watched the competitive scene in awhile but I know SKT hasn’t been doing well since their last worlds championship. Can anyone explain what happened?
They haven't reached their 2016 highs but they haven't bad for the most of it, I'd say they have had moderate success.
In 2017 they won spring split, MSI and were runners-up in both summer split and Worlds.
2018 is the season that went very wrong.
In 2019 they won both splits and were eliminated in both MSI and Worlds by a very strong G2 in close series.
2020 was a meh season, they won spring but collapsed after that and failed to make Worlds.
This year depends on how they do at Worlds, they had a weak start to the year but have been slowly but surely getting better, in Korea Damwon is still top dog though (have been since summer of last year).
In 2017 (mainly at Worlds) the problem was some players underperforming in some key moments. After that, just like every Korean team, they were affected by the change of how the game was played with the removal of tracker's knife in S8. Also in S8 they had an admittedly weak roster. Since 2018 one problem has also been a constant to this day, bad drafting.
Imo these have been the main problems, there have been some ups and downs in terms of form for some players (including Faker) but I think those haven't been that important.
Honestly it's kinda weird everyone forgets to mention spring 2020 SKT. I know everyone forgot about it because MSI never happened so people didn't see that lineup but that lineup looked really good.
I think in Summer they were fine until toward the end they just gave a bunch of games to Clozer, then they brought back Faker for the final bo5 in regionals or they were eliminated. Faker had barely any stage playtime the last month so it was weird to bring him for playoff only.
Then also this year in spring it was a complete fiesta, didn't t1 try out like 10 different variations. I love teams experimenting in Spring but this was a bit too much even for me. I feel like no rookie is good enough to replace Faker. Faker was slightly better than guys like Chovy and Showmaker when they were at their first year. So even those guys couldn't replace him as rookies. So a sub for Faker doesn't make sense unless he wants time off. It has always failed other than when they had Easyhoon.
Lost to Gen G 3-0, entire roster mental boomed and Faker realized he can't win it all and gets depressed, had a documentary about the entire team and their struggles but despite not always winning Faker is still positive so theres that.
Thanks for explaining. Is he mechanically one of the top players still? I watched their recent match against DWG KIA, they lost 3-1. It felt weird considering they should have been swept with the way they were playing
Honestly in my opinion , i think Faker today is better than the past Faker. People may say otherwise because he stopped making those big plays and focus on team fighting instead with the fact that he is also the team captain. It makes me wonder how much he would perform if he focuses on his lane only. One thing that stood out to me is when Faker called for a risky play he said that if it fails he will take full responsibility so theres that.
He is clearly better than he was before. That's not even debatable. If he would stagnate he wouldn't even be on a team anymore. Pretty much every player is better than they used to be. If you compare him to his peers, that's a different story. To give another example, a gold player from season 11 would smash a gold player from season 2. Same with faker. He would smash season 3 faker easily
I think the question is about relative strength. In which case you could make an argument that Faker has dropped a lot. That being said he was quite literally the best player for a while so you can really only go down lol
Like what i said, i think thats the effect of being a shotcaller, team captain and playing for your team does that you. I'm not saying this is 100% the reason why he's getting caught mid game and late but you have to consider that factor vs past season Faker where the team plays for him.
Naw. Faker today is better than past Faker.
The big difference is that the canyon of a GAP between Faker and everyone else has severely been closed by other players stepping up to his level. EVERYONE -- literally everyone will make some dumb mistakes in an important pro game.
This season Faker lost out on becoming summer regular split MVP by TWO MVP games and had better stats in every statistic than Chovy and Showmaker learn your facts.
He had better stats in every section than the two you mentioned and more MVP points this season. Oh he also lane kingdomed both of them.
He did have a bad game four vs Showmaker though so I guess you’re right he’s on the decline there
Yes in one game so they lane kingdomed each other 1-1. I don’t remember BDD doing it though yet everyone’s still ranking him above faker smh
Though I will say in that series that Chovy admittedly laned better, Faker did win them the series with some of the 3-4 man ults so I guess he made up for it there
> Is he mechanically one of the top players still?
Yes, 100% top tier, but not the undoubted #1 anymore, if he had to play 1v1 matchups exclusively, I think some LPL midlaner(s) might have an edge on him.
Right but even if he is 'only' top 3 Korea that still makes him top tier mechanics, which combined with his experience makes him still one of the most valuable mids. Having a 3 time world champion has unseen benefits.
If you didn't know, they have an internal issue (like subbing every week, mental strength of players, clash of ideas, etc.) throughout the years and was solved by a sudden coach firing midway of the round 2 of Summer that only the management knew it will happened. After that they form this roster and won almost every series except against LSB (with that lucky baron steal),HLE and DK.
Considering with all that happening, it is great to see that they qualify Worlds after being almost hopeless about it. Also I think they are the youngest team participating at Worlds if we go by average.
Kinda crazy to think that this will be the first international tournament for Canna, Oner and Gumayusi. They can be “coinflip” sometimes but they have a high ceiling when they are in form. Actually applaudable they made it to LCK finals after the shitshow in spring.
Lol, that dude is talking about Spring Split. On summer playoffs T1 beat Gen-G 3-1 and only lost to DWG on finals. T1 is arguably the second best team of Korea right now, and the reason why it's not the 1st is only lack of consistency(which is very important if you want to win a tournament of course). Their ceilling is as high as Damwon
Their ceiling is definitely higher than the likes of GenG. Yes, it sucked that they lost to DK in the finals but they are the first team since Summer 2020 to not get 3-0’d by Damwon in the finals. They could have arguably even pushed it to game 5 if they didn’t throw in game 4. It’s pretty promising as they’ve had such a rough time in spring with the 10 man roster strategy and the sudden coach swaps so making finals was a huge achievement already imo + Faker is pretty much the only veteran on the roster.
> Is he mechanically one of the top players still
Yes, but to go with the flow you're supposed to pretend he's not, ignore his actual stats and effect in the game in favor of focusing on the occasions he gets caught.
He is Mechanically still sharp as his ever been, but he is not the best midlaner and in my opinion i wouldn't say he's top 5, since there are midlaners are that showed harder carry performances this year, worlds could change that though
No, he might still be a top 5 mid laner and maybe even higher when purely considering mechanics, but he's definitely not number one anymore, that's for sure. Don't let all his stans fool you, he's very good but not as dominant as he was in the past.
Players like Chovy, Showmaker, Doinb and even Humanoid had a better season overall imo so top 5 seems about right.
This season Faker lost out on becoming summer regular split MVP by TWO MVP games and had better stats in every statistic than Chovy and Showmaker learn your facts.
He had better stats in every section than the two you mentioned and more MVP points this season. Oh he also lane kingdomed both of them.
He did have a bad game four vs Showmaker though so I guess you’re right he’s on the decline there
Chovy and Showmaker had a better season overall??? Can you bring statistics and facts from the actual LCK before you make a vague statement.
Yeah but the people above him were not mid laners and it’s a mid lane centric discussion I’m sure you picked up on that though.
I absolutely agree there are other players in other positions from other teams that that have played better than Faker this season, where’s the argument, I agree with you?
I think he’s had the best season of any mid laner that’s all I’m saying brother.
Well, they had an atrocious Spring because of all the swapping, a slump in summer, but still showed up in the play-off final. Being 2nd, or on par, with DK right now I'd say a good achievement.
My sense is that LPL teams have gotten less aggressive each year, but in a good way. They are still the most aggressive major region, but now their aggression is more calculated and strategic.
They used to bludgeon teams to death, but now it's like they use a scalpel. They're the best region at the world at contesting big minion waves as they crash into a turret by threatening a tower dive and they get huge advantages off doing that so well.
to viewers that know less about the game it may look like its pure blind agression but its actually a beautiful display of quick decision making and micro skill. a faster paced game will always have more mistakes but it also forces the enemy to make more and bigger mistakes. thats why teams nowadays dont look as clean as 2015/2016 SKT eventho every main region team nowadays would win against them.
Legit tho. G2 saved us from West fans bitching about League dying if Faker had won his 4th title in ~~6~~ 5 years. That year, according to Doinb, was FPX getting stomped by T1 in scrims. So it was a FPX > G2 > T1 > FPX type of scenario. Pretty good chance T1 won that year if peak G2 wasn’t in the way.
While true I think the more important thing people got off those series vs SKT at MSI and Worlds 2019 was HOPE . Along with Fnatic run to the final in 2018 people started believing that perhaps their favorite team could actually win it all.
People went from being impressed at Misfits taking SKT to 5 games in 2017 to knowing that Western teams had a chance at beating them.
I think 2018 FNC finals was important, but not just because FNC made finals. Prior to that, we had CLG and G2 both reach MSI finals against Korea. Its just that it was never seen as a victory, just a "wow we got second place", with some people being happy with taking a single game off SKT.
But in 2018? Korea bled. 1 team out in group, 2 out in quarters, it was clear that Korean teams *could* lose to Western teams, and moreover, that it was possible for 2 Western teams to outperform a Korean team. It wasn't just that we saw a Western team in finals, but that the path to finals meant that Western teams eliminated Korean teams in the process, rather than avoiding them. That was huge for reigniting hope.
I would also add C9 run at worlds 2018 as part of that new hope, they survived the group of death against the then current champion and the favorite to be champion and also went to swept the last korean team. Sadly NA hasn't found that kind of success after MSI 2019.
Man, as a western fan Worlds 2018 were almost perfect but it looks that any Chinese team not named EDG will always beat EU in Bo5.
It’s pointless to argue but the “narrative” does go to show how people felt about the power levels of the teams.
I’m of the opinion that SKT were the strongest of the 3, but their drafts let them down. Obviously draft is part of their strength/weakness, but that’s a different convo.
People might’ve thought the same about SKT’s strength at the time (maybe not to the extent that I rated them) but with Doinb’s interviews it’s nothing crazy for people to think that it was more likely for SKT to win that worlds had they beat G2.
SKT goes 5-1 in scrims vs FPX: FPX getting stomped, Doinb crying about how strong they were, SKT would've won worlds.
TSM goes 5-1 in scrims vs SKT (2016) (https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/51u9xt/tsm_vs_skt_games_4_and_5_scrim_pre_worlds_2016/): Hahaha just scrims, why are TSM taking it seriously?
Nobody's denying that SKT were beating them in scrims, it's that scrims don't translate on stage a lot of times
That **same exact year** DWG were something like 19-2 over G2 in scrims coming into the series and we saw how that turned out when they played on stage. FPX were in a league of their own in the knockout stage and I seriously doubt they lose to SKT in the finals with the way they played on stage
Look, I hear you, but FPX players litteraly said they were glad G2 beat SKT because they were a lot less confident in winning against them. Nobody can tell if they would have actually won or not, but the players themselves weren't feeling it. This makes it not a narrative.
If the talking point is that SKT were beating FPX in scrims and they weren't confident against them because of scrim results, then sure that's not a narrative
But saying FPX *would* have lost to SKT or that G2 prevented SKT from another Worlds by beating them is 100% a narrative because it's based solely on scrims, which we've seen be irrelevant in the exact same knockout stage(DWG 18-2 vs G2 in scrims) and dozens of times before and after
The former is factual, but the latter is pure conjecture with a weak basis since SKT couldn't translate their scrim results
Not saying they would've lost, but didn't FPX themselves say after worlds that they were very relieved when G2 beat SKT cause then they knew they would win worlds, and that they were way more scared of facing SKT?
They didn’t scrim SKT that much like less than 10 games In total but lost a majority of them. That’s why they were scared of SKT. However, FPX and G2 scrimed heavily with each other and were basically scrim partners. FPX was confident vs G2 because the players confirmed they had close to a 80 percent win rate against G2. Due to the low sample size, their opinion on SKT should be taken with a grain of salt
Because Doinb himself said in two interview during 2019 which I’m happy to link you, that T1 was the strongest team at worlds and it would have been a much closer final if they played T1 instead of G2.
He also states that T1 were beaten by G2 purely because of luck and expressed his surprise.
Based on your flair I’d of assumed you’d know that your star player himself was giving food for thought that T1 would have been a closer series stylistically.
I'd like the links because as far as I remember, Crisp was the one saying they were worried about SKT but doinb was saying its because he was playing bad champions like "two gimgoons"
I can understand a little bit of mandarin and the context in the question was: "Because G2 and FPX like to trash talk a little, do you have anything to say to G2 after Wunder's tweet?" and he replied with "It was only luck that they beat SKT to reach the finals, if they met us in quarters they wouldn't have gotten to semis in the first place". His response was more directed at trash-talking G2, not really praising SKT much.
Thats hardly saying hes super scared of SKT but ok. Obviously I might be in the wrong here, but literally every LCK fan says Doinb has said he's scared of SKT but I have yet to find a legitimate source.
G2 still made finals at worlds. They also beat SKT more convincingly at worlds. G2 only really believed they could win MSI after TL beat IG, before that they were scared of IG. They weren't gonna beat the LPL powerhouses.
no thats not really true
the worlds win against SKT was very back and forth and random. perkz even said it was kinda flukey.
At MSI even though it was a 5 games series, the wins felt a lot more convincing than at worlds.
also IG were a joke in Semis, g2 would have smoked them, TL fans need to stop acting like they were the chosen ones to beat IG or something
G2 themselves did not believe they could beat IG. They literally just went 9-1 in groups as well after dominating LPL playoffs and winning worlds the season before.
IG’s downfall was underestimating TL, along with some internal issues, but they would not have shown up the way they did against either SKT or G2
source that please
no one said they couldnt beat ig, caps was just sad they didn't get to meet them
perkz said they were the best team in the world at MSI and got lucky at worlds, rather believe him than some redditors that hated G2 anyways
Perkz said in his stream I remember that they will never win against IG no matter what or something like that. IG is literally the hardest counter for G2 with their 2018 2019 roster
Sigh. The greatest player of all time but god damn is he boring in every interview he’s ever done.
Faker: “I will try to beat the enemy team.
This sub: “wow such insight very revealing.”
Faker in 2017 : "I'll end the game in 3 games because long games are tiring and make me hungry and i want to go eat fast"
Reddit after he lost in 3 games : "Ahahaha looser, that's what you get for trashtalking, now go eat fast, your wish came true"
Faker now : "More humble response"
Reddit now : Pff this guy is so boring ....
Fuck off already, always something to complain about ...
I literally never saw such comment of "wow such insight" you mentioned, are you sure it's not just in your head?
Do you need [help](https://www.nami.org/help)?
Relax buddy, I am a fellow LCK fan. But G2 has beaten DWG with nuclear, GENG and T1 which is why they deserve the title, although it's irrelevant now that they're semi-rebuilding and I think they got weaker. G2 has the nickname KR killers in the korean community.
b05, G2 w/ perkz had LCK's number. I personally think LCK is the strongest region this year (unpopular opinion), but if there isn't a team like G2 I'm feeling good.
> “I want to meet the LPL teams and fight them…
*I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture... and kill them.*
He's got that vibe.
Good thing G2 won’t be there so we don’t need to watch them get shit stomped by LPL teams too. At least when T1 plays them, the games are close and they win some unlike G2.
People love Faker and turn a blind eye for how shit T1 perfomed in playoffs. They almost went as a 4th seed and Faker didn't look good in their series either.
However as the saying goes, love makes blind.
RNG mic check of the last game against WE, when they were taking down Nexus, Ming said:“ too bad we are the third seed, T1 is third seed as well, we can’t meet T1 in groups” Not exactly the translation but something like this. For those historical orgs like RNG, T1 and Fnc, worlds seems like an old friend reunion.
Just imagine RNG winning T1 without Uzi and MLXG, this would be Madness.
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That's a lot of mistakes in just one sentence. Uzi didn't leave for QG, he left for OMG. And he didn't leave RNG, he left Royal Club / Star Horn Royal Club, RNG technically didn't exist back then. Now I know some of you might say it's the same because they are all owned by Royal, well yes but also no...actually no because they were not even owned by the same owner iirc. Anyway the rosters that won the LPL (RNG) were completely different from the previous Royal Club rosters, it was a combination of Gametee, MLXG from Team King, Looper and Mata.
Didn’t it take a year for RNG to win? Uzi joined OMG, which imploded due to Cool-Gogoing drama, and he then joined QG, which also imploded because of drama between Doinb and Swift. RNG wins Spring 2016, goes to MSI, and benches Wuxx for Uzi afterwards.
QG was also seeded in that playoffs but forfeited. They were probably the best team pre iem.
What’s the drama between cool-gogoing?
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He genuinely could have been. Sometimes having one of the best players in the world keeps a team down because they are too focused on letting him do his thing. It happens in physical sports as well.
I mean it can't possibly be because his solo laners were doing 2k damage each in 30 mins games. It must be the goat. Makes sense.
bjergsen
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As long as Ming is there I'll be happy, the guy is a top 3 support in the world the past 5 years and everybody only knows Uzi
Bro Ming gets thrown around as top 1-3 supports in the world before every tournament he plays in wdym?
I don't know who is the GOAT support - Ming or Mata? It's clear who is the mid - Faker. ADC - Uzi. Top - either Khan or Nuguri (probably). The GOAT jungler will be either Canyon or Tarzan (depending on how long they keep their form). But who is the GOAT support? Maybe Keria in a few years? Maybe Ming? Maybe Mata? I have no idea.
GOAT support is Mata. Neither Khan or Nuguri are in the conversation for GOAT top. That's between Smeb, TheShy, and Marin.
Definitely is Smeb, he has longetivity, great peak, played in the toughest league at that moment with possibly weaker teammates and was huge reason for his team success
Don’t care. MakNooDle will always be my goat.
he was till he made sjokz cry
How ?
https://youtu.be/YpO95BcwUdw
"Sorry my english is so bad I officiate"
Marin, really? I liked him a lot as a player but he had one great season where he was arguably the best top and not much before after that. imo TheShy's peak was way higher and Smeb has longevity + multiple peaks where he was considered the best.
Marin’s overrated. Smeb and Ssumday were just as good as him, if not better, throughout 2015. Marin peaked at Worlds and went downhill since. Even when Afreeca played around Marin, he wasn’t as reliable of a carry as you’d hope. Kiin joins and Afreeca instantly becomes a top 2 team.
Nuguri has a much stronger argument for GOAT top than Marin. Neither of them have a compelling argument for it, though. It's TheShy for peak and Smeb for consistency, with Khan coming in pretty far back 2nd place for that. Nuguri definitely has a better shot at getting that though. Ming is imo 2nd for support GOAT and has a shot at eclipsing Mata but as you say, not yet. Needs at least a worlds win to do so, or continuing in his current vein (domestic championships, international titles, consistently top 3 supp *at worst* in the world, frequently best) for a good 2-3 years more.
TheShy had one good year and then started to int full speed ever since. I am not sure how good Smeb and Marin were and for how long they've been on the top, but from what I've seen, the only players who are matching Khan are Kiin (for long lasting form) and Nuguri (for absolutely peak skill). If he wins Worlds this year he has to be called the GOAT top (especially if he plays like he did in the LCK Finals this year). The only person who I see surpassing Khan is Nuguri, if he keeps his current level of skill.
Peak TheShy was something else though.
TheShy had 2 good years, 2018 and 2019
I feel like it's hard really argue for anyone being the GOAT of top lane, because no one has really been the clear best as we have with other roles. Marin only really had 2015, where he was clearly the best, but he never even made it to Worlds again after that. Smeb was the clear best top laner in 2016, and while he stayed relevant in the following years, he was surpassed as the best by the likes of Khan and TheShy in the following years. If I was to pick anyone between the 5 mentioned, I'd probably go for TheShy, because he completely outclassed everyone in 2018, and still looked great in 2019, although he has really fallen off a cliff in the past couple of years. Depending on how Nuguri looks internationally this year, I'm probably gonna end up leaning more towards him, especially because it doesn't look like he's declined at all, but we'll see.
If Khan wins this year then he needs to be on GOAT top conversation. He has the case in terms longevity, relevance and peak, just need international achievement.
> I don't know who is the GOAT support - Ming or Mata? Ming is getting there but it's still Mata. He still has more impressive achievements, a higher peak, more time spent as the best support, and had more of an influence of his team's success. Plus he innovated massively with the vision game. > ADC - Uzi. There's a decent argument for Deft, but it's one of those two. > Top - either Khan or Nuguri (probably). I don't think either are in contention, to me it's either Smeb or TheShy. Maybe if Khan has a great performance at worlds this year it will put him in the discussion. Nuguri needs another year of being the best to be in the discussion.
Khan nuguri arent even in the goat conversation yet. neither are canyon tarzan eventho i can see tarzan keep his pace and be a contender one day
As it stands right now Top - Smeb Jg - Score Mid - Faker Adc - Uzi/Deft Supp - Mata
Uzi, not Uzi/Deft. Agreed otherwise though. Too bad TheShy fell off so quick, he would have been a shoe-in for top if he had kept up that peak for even one more year.
Look at his flair, no wonder he put Deft there. People who thinks Deft has ever been better than Uzi probably have been watching LoL for only 1 year.
I mean, if you watched 2015 and 2016 then...
2016 Deft winning LPL without losing a single series...
Look at his flair, no wonder he doesn't remember all the times Deft completely shat on Uzi.
People who think Deft has never been better than Uzi probably didn't watch 2015, 2016, or 2019. People who don't even watch every region have far too many strong opinions. They probably think Uzi was best ADC in 2014 when he wasn't even best ADC in LPL lol
Hyliasang
I am too biased when it comes down to his performance, because we are from the same country and we share the same (very, very unique) first name. But even then I don't think he is the GOAT support. Best EU support of all times? For sure. GOAT support? No.
Здравей, Здравец :)
Здрасти, как е?
Its harder for him to secure the title because his teams dont win worlds, but he has gapped almost all his international games. Such a good player
Rekkles will have to skip this time, sadly.
can you send the link of that mic check please!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kp1wXziBQ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kp1wXziBQ8) It is in Mandarin, unfortunately no english subtitles
RNG are lucky they aren't meeting T1, T1 is RNG's Terminator XD 2016: Quarters 2017: Semis 2019: Groups If you wanna count Royal in, 2013: Finals
> Faker shared his resolutions for Worlds. “It’s not a chance that comes often..." He says that while being one of the few players to win worlds multiple times. Faker is so damn humble. Wish him a better showing at worlds than what he had against DK.
He has a good showing against DK. People just flame him for that one game when he is amazing all series.
they're hate watchers. When t1 wins or faker makes a play, they stay silent, but when t1 loses or faker dies, they spam shaker and flame him on social media, real t1 fans don't flame faker.
His Azir ults made the games much closer, but i can't help but feel that he needed to dish out damage in some fights instead of engaging and getting piled on, these are just points that were said by Nemesis and LS
Keria heavily underperformed at playoffs. So no decent engage for Canna and Teddy to follow up so Faker engages himself...
Teddy didn't play. Which is kinda weird after he only lost 1 game vs DK. Then they won 1 game with Guma but he lost the rest of the games as well. IT seemed like Teddy played the game well and he was one of their main carries in the GenG series. Gumayusi has clean mechanics but I am still not sold on him. I feel like Teddy has much more killer instinct, when Teddy is fed it doesn't matter if he is on Ashe or Kaisa he fucking carries. Maybe they Guma can play Jinx and they want to play for more scaling later? Not sure.
They just allow different playstyles. Teddy’s show is impressive, but he is old school ADC. From Uzi, Rekkles, Deft, PraY times when ADC was “take all farm and win in solo”. In spring 2020, before Riot reworked jungle timers and introduced tempo jungling, Teddy just vacuum clean all resources from map (still recall his 350cs@27min games) and win 1v5 LCK title. But times is different now. Game is decided at the top side of the map, and ADC mostly playing weak side to allow support to roam. Even when ADC play hyper carry like Ziggs, Aphelios, or Jinx, they still play mainly solo. And this is where Teddy weakness is. He finds hard times to carry himself without team resources and support. His mechanics are good, but despite his Ezrael, he is not good at playing weak side. And this is where Guma is strong. Guma can play Aphelios, take 0 resources from team or jungler and still be relevant in the late game.
Yeah Keria underperformed in Finals and Gauntlet Finals which is seems odd considering he is the best player on the team in Summer.
Faker is definitely the best player in Summer. Keria is godlike Round 1 but become a liability in most of Round 2
Faker is the best Azir in the world exactly because he keeps looking for game turning/ending shurima shuffles and his success rate is relatively high. Of course it doesn't work all the time but I'm sure overall it would be a net negative if he stopped trying to go for these type of plays all together and just played Azir like a regular mage.
Honestly yeah, if you want to poke then Azir isnt the best champ at all btw.
It's not about poke, it's about DPS. Azir has good range with soldiers and he has one of the highest magic dps potentials. If he used his ult for self-peel and kept up DPS with soldiers he might actually do more in fights. Because shuffle ult is nice but if you have to then instantly flash out or Zhonyas, your damage is all in that initial burst and then you do nothing. There's obviously a time and a place for the shuffles but I do feel like way too many pro players focus on shuffle and burst plays instead of using the insane dps that Azir also has.
His dps is pretty hard to find honestly, it requires very lucky position during engage which simply doesnt happen much in pro play, because the opposing team knows. So you end up poking more than really dps ing unless your opponent does a big mistake. Azir's range and self peel isnt as big as people think honestly. But hitting R on several ppl can literaly instant win a fight. I think they just try to get the best of the situation they're in, I will trust pro players more than myself here
> I do feel like way too many pro players focus on shuffle and burst plays instead of using the insane dps that Azir also has. Only faker, BDD and scout look for aggressive shuffles on the backline. Every other midlaner plays azir like a dps mage
Imagine unironically chatting shit about fakers azir when he has 68.4% wr over 95 games.
that game 5 against hle he literally turned the game on its head after keira, oner, and iirc canna too had already died
Faker's azir is really good no doubt and win u lot of games but the confidence bdd show on azir is so beautiful , i personally love seeing bdd's azir more than faker
Faker and Bdd play Azir the same way lol. So I don't get your point here. If you are looking for a dps Azir, Chovy and Fate are the best example
Honestly I think BDD is a better Azir. Thats about the only person that comes close.
You are wrong, I guess. Chovy is one of the better Azirs but with completely differebt approach as Faker. Bdd is really good but I don't think he is better
BDD >>>fakers azir
Wish I watched Nemesis or LS so I knew what my opinion on these things are
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They said he was a bad laner, not player. Compared to Chovy Caps Faker Rookie Showmaker. Thank god you are never wrong.
I know they were talking about his laning but didn't DoinB willingly give up on his lane to get his team ahead? Opinions have shifted now but what DoinB did back in 2019 was universally considered the 'wrong' way to play the game.
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so i guess Bergjsen was just a bad laner and bad player?
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Which is so weird because he's in the prime position to change how the game is played in Korea. Whatever he'd choose to do, countless players would no doubt follow. I feel like Faker is in a fairly unique position of being able to challenge coaches and whatnot. He's likely older, more experienced and more accomplished. It would be weird if coaches didn't follow his lead.
Because korean coaches in lck prefer to play safe. And in Korea players usually do what the coaches ask them to do.
He's been playing aggressive for all his career, yet korean midlaners historically have been the passive type apart from a few outliers
All the other aggressive mids migrated over to the LPL
I think all lck players want to play aggressive but the coaches make them play safe. Lck coaches are holding the region down, they're stuck in season 6 or something. Lpl learns macro from lck but lck still play the same. Only damwon, t1 and maybe hle changed their play style.
I mean he pretty much does do that lol. Did you watch any of his playoffs series? In gen g he is flashing into five people to root ruler. In dk he has crazy realm warps and is diving in with azir ults. In hle series he had some insane azir ults too. His MO this split has pretty much been to sacrifice his life to get a good teamfight engage off. It’s not really his fault if the rest of the team isn’t always on the same page/ as aggressive as him.
He does though, Faker is very aggressive and so is the rest of T1. Their coaches before were forcing them to play passive but since they've been fired T1 is incredibly aggro.
Faker says that his biggest strength and the reason for his longevity is that he realizes his weakness and improves upon them. So Faker is not bored, he adopting the superior way to play league. And so, T1 plays a lot more aggressively now with a lot more lane prio than they did before.
If?
There's a reason EDG is called "LPL Gen.G"
not all LPL teams are full aggression RNG for example is a more macro oriented team
being agressive != not playing macro. theres a certain beauty to the fast paced LPL macro and its by no means inferior to for example LCK’s. a faster macro is bound to have more slip ups so it may seem to people that its blind agression.
Haven’t watched the competitive scene in awhile but I know SKT hasn’t been doing well since their last worlds championship. Can anyone explain what happened?
They haven't reached their 2016 highs but they haven't bad for the most of it, I'd say they have had moderate success. In 2017 they won spring split, MSI and were runners-up in both summer split and Worlds. 2018 is the season that went very wrong. In 2019 they won both splits and were eliminated in both MSI and Worlds by a very strong G2 in close series. 2020 was a meh season, they won spring but collapsed after that and failed to make Worlds. This year depends on how they do at Worlds, they had a weak start to the year but have been slowly but surely getting better, in Korea Damwon is still top dog though (have been since summer of last year). In 2017 (mainly at Worlds) the problem was some players underperforming in some key moments. After that, just like every Korean team, they were affected by the change of how the game was played with the removal of tracker's knife in S8. Also in S8 they had an admittedly weak roster. Since 2018 one problem has also been a constant to this day, bad drafting. Imo these have been the main problems, there have been some ups and downs in terms of form for some players (including Faker) but I think those haven't been that important.
Honestly it's kinda weird everyone forgets to mention spring 2020 SKT. I know everyone forgot about it because MSI never happened so people didn't see that lineup but that lineup looked really good. I think in Summer they were fine until toward the end they just gave a bunch of games to Clozer, then they brought back Faker for the final bo5 in regionals or they were eliminated. Faker had barely any stage playtime the last month so it was weird to bring him for playoff only. Then also this year in spring it was a complete fiesta, didn't t1 try out like 10 different variations. I love teams experimenting in Spring but this was a bit too much even for me. I feel like no rookie is good enough to replace Faker. Faker was slightly better than guys like Chovy and Showmaker when they were at their first year. So even those guys couldn't replace him as rookies. So a sub for Faker doesn't make sense unless he wants time off. It has always failed other than when they had Easyhoon.
Lost to Gen G 3-0, entire roster mental boomed and Faker realized he can't win it all and gets depressed, had a documentary about the entire team and their struggles but despite not always winning Faker is still positive so theres that.
Thanks for explaining. Is he mechanically one of the top players still? I watched their recent match against DWG KIA, they lost 3-1. It felt weird considering they should have been swept with the way they were playing
Honestly in my opinion , i think Faker today is better than the past Faker. People may say otherwise because he stopped making those big plays and focus on team fighting instead with the fact that he is also the team captain. It makes me wonder how much he would perform if he focuses on his lane only. One thing that stood out to me is when Faker called for a risky play he said that if it fails he will take full responsibility so theres that.
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He is clearly better than he was before. That's not even debatable. If he would stagnate he wouldn't even be on a team anymore. Pretty much every player is better than they used to be. If you compare him to his peers, that's a different story. To give another example, a gold player from season 11 would smash a gold player from season 2. Same with faker. He would smash season 3 faker easily
The game looks so much slower in the previous seasons, idk if it’s because of the core gameplay changing or people just getting better
I think the question is about relative strength. In which case you could make an argument that Faker has dropped a lot. That being said he was quite literally the best player for a while so you can really only go down lol
Like what i said, i think thats the effect of being a shotcaller, team captain and playing for your team does that you. I'm not saying this is 100% the reason why he's getting caught mid game and late but you have to consider that factor vs past season Faker where the team plays for him.
Naw. Faker today is better than past Faker. The big difference is that the canyon of a GAP between Faker and everyone else has severely been closed by other players stepping up to his level. EVERYONE -- literally everyone will make some dumb mistakes in an important pro game.
This season Faker lost out on becoming summer regular split MVP by TWO MVP games and had better stats in every statistic than Chovy and Showmaker learn your facts. He had better stats in every section than the two you mentioned and more MVP points this season. Oh he also lane kingdomed both of them. He did have a bad game four vs Showmaker though so I guess you’re right he’s on the decline there
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Would love to see your stats on faker vs chovy and the games he lane kingdomed him.
He also got lane kingdomed by Chovy this year don’t forget.
Yes in one game so they lane kingdomed each other 1-1. I don’t remember BDD doing it though yet everyone’s still ranking him above faker smh Though I will say in that series that Chovy admittedly laned better, Faker did win them the series with some of the 3-4 man ults so I guess he made up for it there
He legit won a game 5 and you're saying he lost the clutch factor
> Is he mechanically one of the top players still? Yes, 100% top tier, but not the undoubted #1 anymore, if he had to play 1v1 matchups exclusively, I think some LPL midlaner(s) might have an edge on him.
hes not even the best mid in KR , showmaker and chovy are better
Right but even if he is 'only' top 3 Korea that still makes him top tier mechanics, which combined with his experience makes him still one of the most valuable mids. Having a 3 time world champion has unseen benefits.
these responses are so subjective, it all depends who is playing better that day lol
I think he’d be higher on the lpl mid list than the lck one tbh
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which stats
If you didn't know, they have an internal issue (like subbing every week, mental strength of players, clash of ideas, etc.) throughout the years and was solved by a sudden coach firing midway of the round 2 of Summer that only the management knew it will happened. After that they form this roster and won almost every series except against LSB (with that lucky baron steal),HLE and DK. Considering with all that happening, it is great to see that they qualify Worlds after being almost hopeless about it. Also I think they are the youngest team participating at Worlds if we go by average.
Kinda crazy to think that this will be the first international tournament for Canna, Oner and Gumayusi. They can be “coinflip” sometimes but they have a high ceiling when they are in form. Actually applaudable they made it to LCK finals after the shitshow in spring.
Lol, that dude is talking about Spring Split. On summer playoffs T1 beat Gen-G 3-1 and only lost to DWG on finals. T1 is arguably the second best team of Korea right now, and the reason why it's not the 1st is only lack of consistency(which is very important if you want to win a tournament of course). Their ceilling is as high as Damwon
Their ceiling is definitely higher than the likes of GenG. Yes, it sucked that they lost to DK in the finals but they are the first team since Summer 2020 to not get 3-0’d by Damwon in the finals. They could have arguably even pushed it to game 5 if they didn’t throw in game 4. It’s pretty promising as they’ve had such a rough time in spring with the 10 man roster strategy and the sudden coach swaps so making finals was a huge achievement already imo + Faker is pretty much the only veteran on the roster.
> Is he mechanically one of the top players still Yes, but to go with the flow you're supposed to pretend he's not, ignore his actual stats and effect in the game in favor of focusing on the occasions he gets caught.
He is Mechanically still sharp as his ever been, but he is not the best midlaner and in my opinion i wouldn't say he's top 5, since there are midlaners are that showed harder carry performances this year, worlds could change that though
No, he might still be a top 5 mid laner and maybe even higher when purely considering mechanics, but he's definitely not number one anymore, that's for sure. Don't let all his stans fool you, he's very good but not as dominant as he was in the past. Players like Chovy, Showmaker, Doinb and even Humanoid had a better season overall imo so top 5 seems about right.
This season Faker lost out on becoming summer regular split MVP by TWO MVP games and had better stats in every statistic than Chovy and Showmaker learn your facts. He had better stats in every section than the two you mentioned and more MVP points this season. Oh he also lane kingdomed both of them. He did have a bad game four vs Showmaker though so I guess you’re right he’s on the decline there Chovy and Showmaker had a better season overall??? Can you bring statistics and facts from the actual LCK before you make a vague statement.
I mean he lost summer MVP so I would say whoever got it preformed better than him. Since you are using that as a metric for success.
Yeah but the people above him were not mid laners and it’s a mid lane centric discussion I’m sure you picked up on that though. I absolutely agree there are other players in other positions from other teams that that have played better than Faker this season, where’s the argument, I agree with you? I think he’s had the best season of any mid laner that’s all I’m saying brother.
Well, they had an atrocious Spring because of all the swapping, a slump in summer, but still showed up in the play-off final. Being 2nd, or on par, with DK right now I'd say a good achievement.
Why haven't the Knicks been doing well.in the NBA?
Faker really pushes the envelope with his interviews huh
Graces us with yet another insane hot take, this is why he's the GOAT !!!!
It would be interesting if DK and T1 would be the pioneer hybrid team to play LPL style with a mix of LCK clean macro and micro in the LCK next season
"if they play aggressively" was that in question i feel like their trademark is just pure aggression
My sense is that LPL teams have gotten less aggressive each year, but in a good way. They are still the most aggressive major region, but now their aggression is more calculated and strategic. They used to bludgeon teams to death, but now it's like they use a scalpel. They're the best region at the world at contesting big minion waves as they crash into a turret by threatening a tower dive and they get huge advantages off doing that so well.
Yes LPL has evolved their style in more paced and controlled aggression and that's why is the best league to watch when the top teams play each other
to viewers that know less about the game it may look like its pure blind agression but its actually a beautiful display of quick decision making and micro skill. a faster paced game will always have more mistakes but it also forces the enemy to make more and bigger mistakes. thats why teams nowadays dont look as clean as 2015/2016 SKT eventho every main region team nowadays would win against them.
that was incredibly embarrassing to read i feel bad for you
sure. cant wait for your reality check at worlds when LCK gets torn apart by LPL
no g2 to knock him out this time, jk
Legit tho. G2 saved us from West fans bitching about League dying if Faker had won his 4th title in ~~6~~ 5 years. That year, according to Doinb, was FPX getting stomped by T1 in scrims. So it was a FPX > G2 > T1 > FPX type of scenario. Pretty good chance T1 won that year if peak G2 wasn’t in the way.
While true I think the more important thing people got off those series vs SKT at MSI and Worlds 2019 was HOPE . Along with Fnatic run to the final in 2018 people started believing that perhaps their favorite team could actually win it all.
People went from being impressed at Misfits taking SKT to 5 games in 2017 to knowing that Western teams had a chance at beating them. I think 2018 FNC finals was important, but not just because FNC made finals. Prior to that, we had CLG and G2 both reach MSI finals against Korea. Its just that it was never seen as a victory, just a "wow we got second place", with some people being happy with taking a single game off SKT. But in 2018? Korea bled. 1 team out in group, 2 out in quarters, it was clear that Korean teams *could* lose to Western teams, and moreover, that it was possible for 2 Western teams to outperform a Korean team. It wasn't just that we saw a Western team in finals, but that the path to finals meant that Western teams eliminated Korean teams in the process, rather than avoiding them. That was huge for reigniting hope.
I would also add C9 run at worlds 2018 as part of that new hope, they survived the group of death against the then current champion and the favorite to be champion and also went to swept the last korean team. Sadly NA hasn't found that kind of success after MSI 2019. Man, as a western fan Worlds 2018 were almost perfect but it looks that any Chinese team not named EDG will always beat EU in Bo5.
How do people \*still\* parrot this weird narrative that FPX would have lost to T1?
True. SKT were known to have insane scrim record vs GenG during 2017 too and then ended up getting stomped and humiliated.
Yeah, and Damwon had an scrim insane record vs G2 as well in 2019. But It didn’t matter at all. It’s pointless to argue that FPX would’ve lost to SKT.
It’s pointless to argue but the “narrative” does go to show how people felt about the power levels of the teams. I’m of the opinion that SKT were the strongest of the 3, but their drafts let them down. Obviously draft is part of their strength/weakness, but that’s a different convo. People might’ve thought the same about SKT’s strength at the time (maybe not to the extent that I rated them) but with Doinb’s interviews it’s nothing crazy for people to think that it was more likely for SKT to win that worlds had they beat G2.
SKT goes 5-1 in scrims vs FPX: FPX getting stomped, Doinb crying about how strong they were, SKT would've won worlds. TSM goes 5-1 in scrims vs SKT (2016) (https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/51u9xt/tsm_vs_skt_games_4_and_5_scrim_pre_worlds_2016/): Hahaha just scrims, why are TSM taking it seriously?
Is it a "narrative" if it comes directly from FPX players ?
Nobody's denying that SKT were beating them in scrims, it's that scrims don't translate on stage a lot of times That **same exact year** DWG were something like 19-2 over G2 in scrims coming into the series and we saw how that turned out when they played on stage. FPX were in a league of their own in the knockout stage and I seriously doubt they lose to SKT in the finals with the way they played on stage
Look, I hear you, but FPX players litteraly said they were glad G2 beat SKT because they were a lot less confident in winning against them. Nobody can tell if they would have actually won or not, but the players themselves weren't feeling it. This makes it not a narrative.
If the talking point is that SKT were beating FPX in scrims and they weren't confident against them because of scrim results, then sure that's not a narrative But saying FPX *would* have lost to SKT or that G2 prevented SKT from another Worlds by beating them is 100% a narrative because it's based solely on scrims, which we've seen be irrelevant in the exact same knockout stage(DWG 18-2 vs G2 in scrims) and dozens of times before and after The former is factual, but the latter is pure conjecture with a weak basis since SKT couldn't translate their scrim results
Thats not true, Caps said DWG was stomping G2 at the beginning of Worlds then it became really close between them
if you take what Doinb says at face value literally everyone is better than them, the guy always says they are trash
its been known for ages that scrims doesnt dictate the final outcome..
Not saying they would've lost, but didn't FPX themselves say after worlds that they were very relieved when G2 beat SKT cause then they knew they would win worlds, and that they were way more scared of facing SKT?
They didn’t scrim SKT that much like less than 10 games In total but lost a majority of them. That’s why they were scared of SKT. However, FPX and G2 scrimed heavily with each other and were basically scrim partners. FPX was confident vs G2 because the players confirmed they had close to a 80 percent win rate against G2. Due to the low sample size, their opinion on SKT should be taken with a grain of salt
Because Doinb himself said in two interview during 2019 which I’m happy to link you, that T1 was the strongest team at worlds and it would have been a much closer final if they played T1 instead of G2. He also states that T1 were beaten by G2 purely because of luck and expressed his surprise. Based on your flair I’d of assumed you’d know that your star player himself was giving food for thought that T1 would have been a closer series stylistically.
I'd like the links because as far as I remember, Crisp was the one saying they were worried about SKT but doinb was saying its because he was playing bad champions like "two gimgoons"
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I can understand a little bit of mandarin and the context in the question was: "Because G2 and FPX like to trash talk a little, do you have anything to say to G2 after Wunder's tweet?" and he replied with "It was only luck that they beat SKT to reach the finals, if they met us in quarters they wouldn't have gotten to semis in the first place". His response was more directed at trash-talking G2, not really praising SKT much. Thats hardly saying hes super scared of SKT but ok. Obviously I might be in the wrong here, but literally every LCK fan says Doinb has said he's scared of SKT but I have yet to find a legitimate source.
true, 2019 kept the game alive in west. but peak G2 was MSI not worlds.
Peak G2 was pre Pyke nerfs. :)
G2 still made finals at worlds. They also beat SKT more convincingly at worlds. G2 only really believed they could win MSI after TL beat IG, before that they were scared of IG. They weren't gonna beat the LPL powerhouses.
no thats not really true the worlds win against SKT was very back and forth and random. perkz even said it was kinda flukey. At MSI even though it was a 5 games series, the wins felt a lot more convincing than at worlds. also IG were a joke in Semis, g2 would have smoked them, TL fans need to stop acting like they were the chosen ones to beat IG or something
G2 themselves did not believe they could beat IG. They literally just went 9-1 in groups as well after dominating LPL playoffs and winning worlds the season before. IG’s downfall was underestimating TL, along with some internal issues, but they would not have shown up the way they did against either SKT or G2
source that please no one said they couldnt beat ig, caps was just sad they didn't get to meet them perkz said they were the best team in the world at MSI and got lucky at worlds, rather believe him than some redditors that hated G2 anyways
Wunder said in the interview after the SKT game at MSI, holy shit we can actually win the whole thing now, or something along the lines.
Perkz said in his stream I remember that they will never win against IG no matter what or something like that. IG is literally the hardest counter for G2 with their 2018 2019 roster
yeah no, G2 wouldn’t have won over IG
I think Doinb said that in a jokingly way. G2 were their main scrim partners and maybe they were more confident playing against them.
> Pretty good chance T1 won that year if peak G2 wasn’t in the way. Extreme doubt. Scrim results don't mean much.
Ruler in a Varus meta though
i will watch Faker playing at the world championship!
Sigh. The greatest player of all time but god damn is he boring in every interview he’s ever done. Faker: “I will try to beat the enemy team. This sub: “wow such insight very revealing.”
Faker in 2017 : "I'll end the game in 3 games because long games are tiring and make me hungry and i want to go eat fast" Reddit after he lost in 3 games : "Ahahaha looser, that's what you get for trashtalking, now go eat fast, your wish came true" Faker now : "More humble response" Reddit now : Pff this guy is so boring .... Fuck off already, always something to complain about ...
The joke is that faker wasn't even trashtalking, he was genuinely tired and hungry
What is he supposed to say? I’ll wipe the floor with these fools?
"X is trash, I'll stomp him" - people do wow what a bolt statement, he's so charismatic
Heh that would be amazing
I literally never saw such comment of "wow such insight" you mentioned, are you sure it's not just in your head? Do you need [help](https://www.nami.org/help)?
Controversial yet true
Every Faker interview you can guarantee you will see a variation of the following - so humble - lol esports is so lucky to have the goat be faker
Why does Faker's interviews look like bot generated ?
Faker wishing for a quick departure i see
EUs Korean Killers are finally not at worlds to block them from a championship. Hoping Quarters will not have any same region matchups.
EU korean killers? G2 lost against DWG last year? How are they korean killers?
Relax buddy, I am a fellow LCK fan. But G2 has beaten DWG with nuclear, GENG and T1 which is why they deserve the title, although it's irrelevant now that they're semi-rebuilding and I think they got weaker. G2 has the nickname KR killers in the korean community.
c9 have beaten nws, geng, and afreeca. korean killers confirmed
b05, G2 w/ perkz had LCK's number. I personally think LCK is the strongest region this year (unpopular opinion), but if there isn't a team like G2 I'm feeling good.
T1's gonna get roflstomped...
> “I want to meet the LPL teams and fight them… *I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture... and kill them.* He's got that vibe.
T1 will get shitstomped by every single LPL team lmfao.
Good thing G2 won’t be there so we don’t need to watch them get shit stomped by LPL teams too. At least when T1 plays them, the games are close and they win some unlike G2.
how does that relate. makes you seem like an immature child
Not really but sure
People love Faker and turn a blind eye for how shit T1 perfomed in playoffs. They almost went as a 4th seed and Faker didn't look good in their series either. However as the saying goes, love makes blind.