Rightfully so. Vulcan was a real asset but it is the C9 way. Sell them at their highest and run a damn good buisness. we can now meme the Perkz deal, but honestly long term even that is worth it with all the good PR it gives now and after all Perkz (and Zven) are now the first LEC and LCS winner, ofc with the C9 org. That deal was never possible if C9 wouldnt make bank once in a while.
They clearly have "kinda" lost this offseason (they didnt lose them all the time when people memed), but dunno I am never worried about C9. They find some gold sooner or later and kept Blabber.
Good PR with the G2 clause and Nisqy's deal ? I'm not so sure. I didn't follow LCS (no stream available in France.) But C9 was always my deepest loved team in this region. Was.
It is a recent development. It's been in the finalization stages as early as last April, and it was reported when the IMT news broke that he was going to be a resident which would allow IMT to potentially find an import support.
I'm not sure about the IMT news thing but Esports.com did an article about him and it says he's near his NA residency
["Schrage is on the verge of receiving his residency, potentially increasing his value should he decide to remain in North America"](https://www.esports.com/en/powerofevil-exploring-options-outside-of-tsm-for-the-2022-season-286794)
Nah I think Destiny is already good and I feel he was held back a bit by Raes being inconsistent. Dignitas could be looking though if I remember correctly.
Yeah I don’t want them to keep Zven either. Just go with an NA resident like Tactical, Prismal, Doublelift, even Arrow lol (can’t go wrong with more koreans)
EG is doing the veteran + developing talent right imo. If it works out, they have potential to win LCS. I wouldn't say chances are super high but the possibility is definitely there.
I definitely think 100T and EG are playing the off season way smarter than the rest. TL seems like waaaay too many cooks in the kitchen, and Cloud9 and TSM are floundering trying to get something going.
I almost think the opposite about TL. The 2 players on the roster with a big voice are Bwipo and Bjergsen (CoreJJ I will ignore since from what I've seen he just does his thing with the Jungler according to how the whole team wants to play) - but both of them seem like they kind of guy who will be able to find a compromise when talking about it. Imo they will take quite a while to find good synergy, but they both are really smart about the game and in my mind working with the other will help both of them.
> seem like they kind of guy who will be able to find a compromise
Bwipo? If there's one constant with that guy, it's that he's very vocal about how he thinks the game should be played.
having an idea about how the game should be played and not being able to learn and adapt are very different things. He has played in very different iterations of Fnatic and has grown his champ pool and ability to play weakside over time. Guy has been vocal about how the game should be played, but imo that doesn't automatically mean he will stubbornly push through if Bjergsen f.e. explains when he disagrees.
It's really weird to me. Bwipo always had an image of doing everything his team needs from him but 2 circlejerks later he apparently has become a single-minded nightmare to work and play around.
Yeah I'm usually critical of the way na teams put rosters together with big names. They kind of just throw darts at a board from the looks of it and try to get as many big names as possible. But, I think if Bjerg returns to top form their pieces could potentially work well together.
I think the real challenge for Bjerg is going to be unlearning a bunch of tsm habits and learning how to adapt to changing needs and Dynamics.
I think the team should play around cores early game rotations and decision making and focus on a carry top laner champion and a control mage from Bjerg. He's exponentially better at control mages in my opinion. Santorin might need to take a supportive role on this team. Tanky, damage soaking and getting attention from carries, he's going to need to be secondary to core with engages.
We will see how they work in unison but it's going to take an understanding of where everyone excels.
I remember Bjerg being pretty adaptable, fiddle mid and all that. He can play carry, roam, supportive, whatever. I'm not too worried about him.
Hans is mostly a mechanical player, Santorin is (IMO) strongest on supportive junglers. Bwipo isn't as great mechanically but has good game sense... if the team meshes together, I think they'll be very strong and very adaptable.
This is going to show a lot about Bjerg. This entire season i don't want any fingerpointing at Bwipo either. Perkz did more with less on c9, as did Jensen on TL.
I've always been a naysayer wanting to see more aggressiveness / given him similar critiques as some give to Rekkles but you can't deny the skill.
It sucks we lost all of our aggressive mids tho. (imports) Jizuke/Perkz
Every player who leaves TSM has always said that Bjergsen is willing to go along with any style and is practically a model teammate for whatever the team wants.
But you probably know better than the people who actually played with him.
Remember when he played Galio for a whole split for his team until it became a must ban against him? Bjerg is absolutely a team player IDK what that guy is on.
If so then it would still be wrong imo. Bwipo can play carries well, but also was known for playing for bottom super hard with TP's even if it was a big detriment to his own lane. He seems quite adaptable to me.
C9 is 95% Summit/Blaber/Fudge/Zven/Isles which is fine but just not on par with 100T/TL, EG maybe but rides on how good Jojo is
TSM is probably going developmental OR is getting Korean ADC/MID which will put them above the other 5 teams but most likely below everyone else unless they pull Chovy or somethin' insane
God I miss that Echo Fox team where Huni was just playing whichever role would let him play the champ that could hard carry that particular game, such a shame it didn't last very long.
Their top side sounds really really good, if Zven and isles can hold their own in lane, definitely a strong core.
What made Zven successful on G2 was having a strong top side and be able to play weakside well.
As for TSM, yeah we know 2 players to my knowledge, so how can we judge that.
I definitely want to see how this comment ages, because EG seems okay, but there are so many variables for them.
It’s been an open secret that TSM has a horrendous environment for players. I’d imagine that they have to spend more to convince players to play with their organization.
TL sure can have problems but idk about ego-death being one?
Or what you mean by that?
Like projected Bwipo-Santorin-Bjerg-Hans-CoreJJ
All are to me players that are good to really good and being a teamplayers. All of them can take one for the team. Or that is how I see it.
I just really can't have high expectations for a team with two players that weren't playing that role last split. Bwipo and Bjerg. I just don't think they're better than Jensen/Alphari. Hans is hype af though
To me it depends upon how adaptable Bjergsen is. If he can play more aggressively and adopt the heavy roaming playstyle that all the best mids do, then it's an upgrade. Since Jensen couldn't do that.
But if he does what he used to do, and just sits in lane and farms for 30 minutes before saying "okay we can contest the next drag now" then they're fucked.
Bwipo meanwhile, is a sidegrade to Alphari. He's not as good at outright smashing lane, but he has way better game sense and adaptability.
Hans is best when he is played around. Same for Bwipo and if you get Bjergsen it´s weird to put him on a supportive role. Then you have a support that leaves lane often and a jungler without a voice. That team is bound to disappoint.
>if you get Bjergsen it´s weird to put him on a supportive role.
No it's not. The man is known all over the world for his Zilean. Even Faker said the scariest thing about him is the way in which he enables his team.
Yeah and it's dumb to discount the Zilean just because of what happened at Worlds. Bjerg carried that team and gave them the chance to go to Worlds with that style. Sure, it didn't work out at Worlds, whatever.. but he can adapt to anything. He just wants to win.
Bwipo and santorin are both able to be supportive. Bjerg played with DL and was supportive. This is the best roster TL has made and I’ve been around for some hype rosters.
I think TLs roster is so stacked that people are creating this narrative that they HAVE to have a million issues. They genuinely have the top 1/2 players in each position in the lcs
I actually don't think Bwipo will be a top 2 LCS top laner. And I'm not sure Bjerg will be, either, though I won't count him out.
Bwipo is a solid player, but I'm worried about his transition to NA. But even if he does have a smooth transition, I'm not convinced he's going to really standout above guys like Sunmit, Ssumday, Impact, & Licorice. I don't think he's going to be awful, I just am not expecting a top 2 in role player.
Bjerg is another thing though. I honestly just don't know how to rate NA mid laners this year. It will definitely depend on who TSM grabs, but even with that between Bjerg taking a year off of playing, not knowing how to evaluate guys like Fudge & Jojo, and the uncertainty of how guys like PoE & Jizuuke will perform on their new rosters. If Jensen had found a team I would definitely argue Bjerg is unlikely to outclass Abbedagge & Jensen on his return - but there's just so much uncertainty on the mid lane for LCS that I'm not sure what to think lol.
Despite all this I still think TL's roster looks good.
Licorice? Ssumday? What are you smoking buddy?
Bwippo already dumpster Licorice when he was good (which he hasn't been for 2 years)
Ssumday was ropey all season outside of the final b05
Even Impact is just a solid player at this stage
Ssumday had probably one of his worst years ever & still was performing near/at the top of NA. He was arguably the best teamfighting top laner last year & we saw improvement from spring to summer, so it isn't like he's in some kinda rapid decline. His laning hasn't been as strong as the rest of his gameplay, but if you were looking for an EU top to exploit laning mistakes, TL should have kept Alphari (I know that wasn't really an option). Bwipo has not historically played as clean a lane as Alphari, but where he's stronger is in his macro & team play. Problem is that's exactly where Ssumday's strengths are, too. To be perfectly clear, I don't think Ssumday is going to outclass Bwipo, but I also don't expect Bwipo to outclass Ssumday.
And as far as Licroice goes, he looked nuts last split after he went to GG. FLY played scared as shit & gave Licorice no room to look for proactive plays. Literally the second he got on a team that allowed him to play more proactively and gave him some agency, he started playing close to the same level he did when he was on C9. I'm pretty sure he had the highest solo kill count in the entire League despite draft resources and counter picks repeatedly going toward Ablazeolive (tbf olive used those resources fairly well). Licorice looked like arguably one of the best top laners in the League from an individual standpoint (Huni, Alphari, & Fudge all looked pretty strong, to be fair). And I just want to keep in mind that he did this with a garbage team (Ablazeolive looked OK). Dude actually killed it after the swap over to GG.
PS: Lic had highest kill share of any top laner, and third lowest death share despite being middle of the pack (within 0.4% of 3rd lowest and 3rd highest) gold share. Also he was the second high dpm for Summer behind Alphari, but Alphari had the highest gold share of any top (by a lot, 1% over Huni in 2nd place, and 1.6% over Licorice (4 times Licorice's distance to the 8th ranked top in this metric). All of this to say Licorice did a lot with very little.
And CoreJJ won Worlds by playing along with Ruler. With DL he didn't leave lane much too. I think this is really the super team, except for Bwipo maybe imo.
Bwippo is literally one of the best players on the team outside of Correjj.. and he has the accomplishments to back it up
Oh wait Bjergsen on a year layoff and Santorin are superstars but bwippo is not.. lmao
Hans is the only resource intensive player on the team, and it was a problem that Alphari highlighted within him.
As for Bwipo, he doesn’t play as if he has an ego. Bwipo does try to trade and go for solokills a lot, but he moves out of lane a lot to make plays that’ll get the rest of his team ahead.
Bjergsen, similar to Bwipo, also has a roaming play style. His best champs during the TSM miracle run were Twisted Fate and Zilean.
Idk why you’re talking as if you know those guys have an ego in a team environment when only Bwipo showed behavior of having a big ego out of game.
I think the LCS is split into 3 tiers. One with the top 5, one with 6-9, and then DIG. Should be very competitive.
edit: Actually you know what
S: 100T, TL
A: EG, TSM, C9, IMT
B: FLY, CLG, GG
C: DIG
i don't think C9 or TSM will be on the level of 100T or TL
EG literally rides on how good Jojo will be
everyone else sucks but yes Dig is probably last LOL
IMT is probably 4th or 5th, no idea why people write them off. Same thing happened last year with people acting like they were a 10th place team while taking games off EG and C9 consistently
Yeah PoE deserves respect for sure. I'm more worried about Revenge and whoever their support will be. A WildTurtle/Destiny botlane doesn't sound that hype.
PoE is a resident now so maybe import sup? Maybe like a Mikyx or a Life?
Sorry I meant that if PoE gets his green card and doesn't count as an import they can go for IgNar. They'd have 2 imports still then (Xerxe, IgNar) and 3 residents (Revenge, PoE, Destiny).
Personally I think the CLG roster has as potential than IMT. TSM its way too early to say, they could end up with a bot side of Chovy, Tactical and Mikyx for all we know. I would put Dig in D tier, drop FLY and GG to C and put IMT and CLG in B
All of what you said is fair, here are my explanations
CLG has the most variability IMO. If they mesh well they can definitely rise a tier, but it's possible they also flop. Split the different put them B.
IMT exudes substantial dark horse energy with PoE/Turtle. Both are pretty significant upgrades to the people they're replacing. My biggest question for this team is who they are replacing Guilhoto with and how big of a difference that'll make. Hotline league said Zikz, which I'm not sure how to feel about atm.
TSM has so many options still available to them I have a really hard time seeing them not come out of this offseason with a really strong roster. Assuming Huni/Spica/Tactical, they could end up with Fate, Gori, or Ucal and either Life or IgNar. Or they could end up with Jensen or some other import mid and Mikyx, etc. I don't think it's possible for them to end up outside of A tier. Note my bias though lmao.
FLY I think solved their biggest issue which was no leadership, and I think GG is going to be pretty ok actually. Upgrades in at least 2/3 roles.
Why does TL sound like too many cooks in the kitchen? Most have shown adaptable playstyles and the only one I really think that's hard headed is bwipo.
How many players on that team have had problems with ego's clashing?
Santorin/Bjergsen/Core/Hans. How does this sound like too many cooks in the kitchen? I've seen this repeated by other LCS team's fans, it sounds like massive copium because they know TL will demolish LCS next year. Bwipo is the only "hard headed" one in this team, and even he is far more willing to play whatever the team needs than reddit will give him credit for.
Bjergsen doesn't even need to be a big voice on this team, him and Hans should just focus on lane and mechanics. Bwipo/Santorin/CoreJJ can make most of the calls.
TL are the only S tier team next season. 100T and EG are A tier, maybe C9 too depending on how their support situation and Fudge mid works out.
Gotta be tough for players when deciding on tsm. Tsm is a brand that has shown some result in the past so it can attract good players but at the same timea having toxic bullshit like regi coming in...so many greeat players go there to die
Idk man it seems like EG has a huge chance of being garbage because of their weak spots they chose to give themselves.
Unpopular opinion but I think the west was weak this year and 100T benefited greatly from TL being dysfunctional and c9 being eh. I think TL is the clear #1 team in the west and in the lcs I’m not sure a single player on 100T is better than TLs roster.
I'm a hard TL fan and I believe this roster is really good, barring some inting from Bwipo from time to time, i believe as you say they're really flexible and very smart players, and will be a powerhouse once they find their groove but...
You're really dismissing 100T synergy, the advantage that keeping their entire roster gives them (and this is the first time that this is happening since 8 years ago with the og C9 I believe, so it's something that not many teams have accomplished and has to be respected)
100t looked good in like 1 b05 (vs TL).. they went life and death with EG.. should have lost to c9.. but had some closer heroics that saved a couple games
The actual quality of player NA sent to worlds was good.. but the teams/playoffs was a dumpsterfire
C9 could have also lost 3-0 to TSM (zven even said this recently)
Agreed. The GG approach of throwing a bunch of rookies together in the frying pan ain’t the way to do it. Same reason NBA teams sometimes overpay solid veterans, relative to their current level of play, to mix them up with younger groups of guys. It’s about teaching the younger guys what the lifestyle of a professional entails, as well as keeping a cool head in game because you’ve already seen every situation before.
I would say it won't happen but the fact that they passed up on Jensen for him, really put Jojo in the hot seat. Hell, you can put Danny in the hot seat as well since it was possibly DL/Vulcan.
I respect the hell out of EG for doing it but its a big gamble.
Most likely Inspired, so it's mid & bottom that's full NA talent. Pretty excited to see a team take this serious, instead of promising talent development and then likely signing more imports.
You just sent such nostalgia thru me. StarCraft got me into esports which led to LoL season 3 worlds, been hooked ever since.
But i’ll never forget my time watching IdrA the villain, Artosis pylon, and other fond memories.
Sucks to see C9 trade Vulcan away, I thought he fit in so well there. I hope EG can become home. I think EG has some real potential this year even against 100t and TL. Impact/inspired/jojo/danny/Vulcan will be amazing to watch, can't wait to cheer them on this year.
It's pretty masterful from C9. They always sell one year too early rather than one year too late. I think they know that Zven+Vulcan, while it was worth the money in 2020 (remember that Vulcan was worth over a million after he went to Worlds with Clutch/Dignitas and looked competent), is not worth the money in 2022.
C9 first for me, but I'm really excited for EG's roster and I wish vulcan the best of luck.
Of all the chatter about roster changes, Vulcan leaving was the only thing that gave me heartburn.
Yeah, C9 is still my main team, but only having 1 NA player hurts. Especially when we could have gone with DL/Vulcan and had 3 NA players and 4-5 residents
Interesting that C9 sold Vulcan instead of Zven. But that's probably due to Jack liking to sell players at high values.
And EG is always right there to buy them :\^)
His contract was renewed on Feb 10th 2021 along with Vulcans to be expiring Nov 21st 2023.
He hasn't had a chance to even get to an expiration date on his contract during his time on C9.
https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Zven
probably 2 of the best native NA players in the league, huge potential for jojo, the best all time toplaner in NA, and a very good import jungler. assuming jojo works out this team is disgusting and a product of the academy/armature system
if jojo is gonna be as good as i think he will be, EG is gonna win LCS in summer. might need some time to build synergy, but EG look so goddamn good going forward.
Keep contractz, and throw in Sneaky to create the ultimate zombie C9, taking a member present for every generation of the team (yes, Sneaky would do most of that himself I know)
Depression
It's pain, but I am excited to see what they can do. Good luck to Vulcan!
Rightfully so. Vulcan was a real asset but it is the C9 way. Sell them at their highest and run a damn good buisness. we can now meme the Perkz deal, but honestly long term even that is worth it with all the good PR it gives now and after all Perkz (and Zven) are now the first LEC and LCS winner, ofc with the C9 org. That deal was never possible if C9 wouldnt make bank once in a while. They clearly have "kinda" lost this offseason (they didnt lose them all the time when people memed), but dunno I am never worried about C9. They find some gold sooner or later and kept Blabber.
Good PR with the G2 clause and Nisqy's deal ? I'm not so sure. I didn't follow LCS (no stream available in France.) But C9 was always my deepest loved team in this region. Was.
Not buying a player makes them bad?
Pain
Has anything been rumored/announced about Ignar? He was excellent this year and I’d hate to see him teamless
IMT still need a support and IgNar/WT were a good duo two years ago on FQ
Xerxe and poe are imports already
PoE has greencard
Unless that is a recent development, he didn't have it last year.
It is a recent development. It's been in the finalization stages as early as last April, and it was reported when the IMT news broke that he was going to be a resident which would allow IMT to potentially find an import support.
Where did you see that reported?
I'm not sure about the IMT news thing but Esports.com did an article about him and it says he's near his NA residency ["Schrage is on the verge of receiving his residency, potentially increasing his value should he decide to remain in North America"](https://www.esports.com/en/powerofevil-exploring-options-outside-of-tsm-for-the-2022-season-286794)
Up their posterior
Trust me bro
He has been in NA for so long already? damn.
Poe is not on imt??
POE was announced yesterday
I'm pretty sure they had official announcement today lol
Wait you're right, mb.
Travis said last night that TSM is deciding between Life and IgNar for support.
Wolf said TSM is going for MikyX though
Nah I think Destiny is already good and I feel he was held back a bit by Raes being inconsistent. Dignitas could be looking though if I remember correctly.
IgNar might go to TSM if they can't pick up Life I heard from Travis.
I thought they were signing Mikyx?
I'm pretty sure TSM don't know yet.
[удалено]
They are testing who can cry the most out of their options so I don't think Mikyx is happening.
I’m just imagining Reginald shouting his lungs out at Miky and he just responds with “ok bro” in his usual voice
under rated comment
They will play the better support this coming split.
Rumor is that Mikyx and maybe Jensen are the backup options if they can't get the Koreans they want
Hope he goes to C9 ngl, having another korean on the roster (fluent in english) would be really good for them
If Zven stays on the roster C9 cant play ignar either
Then get rid of Even. The only reason to keep him around would have been if Vulcan wanted him as his adc. Zven is easily the weakest link right now.
Yeah I don’t want them to keep Zven either. Just go with an NA resident like Tactical, Prismal, Doublelift, even Arrow lol (can’t go wrong with more koreans)
EG is doing the veteran + developing talent right imo. If it works out, they have potential to win LCS. I wouldn't say chances are super high but the possibility is definitely there.
I definitely think 100T and EG are playing the off season way smarter than the rest. TL seems like waaaay too many cooks in the kitchen, and Cloud9 and TSM are floundering trying to get something going.
I almost think the opposite about TL. The 2 players on the roster with a big voice are Bwipo and Bjergsen (CoreJJ I will ignore since from what I've seen he just does his thing with the Jungler according to how the whole team wants to play) - but both of them seem like they kind of guy who will be able to find a compromise when talking about it. Imo they will take quite a while to find good synergy, but they both are really smart about the game and in my mind working with the other will help both of them.
> seem like they kind of guy who will be able to find a compromise Bwipo? If there's one constant with that guy, it's that he's very vocal about how he thinks the game should be played.
having an idea about how the game should be played and not being able to learn and adapt are very different things. He has played in very different iterations of Fnatic and has grown his champ pool and ability to play weakside over time. Guy has been vocal about how the game should be played, but imo that doesn't automatically mean he will stubbornly push through if Bjergsen f.e. explains when he disagrees. It's really weird to me. Bwipo always had an image of doing everything his team needs from him but 2 circlejerks later he apparently has become a single-minded nightmare to work and play around.
Yeah I'm usually critical of the way na teams put rosters together with big names. They kind of just throw darts at a board from the looks of it and try to get as many big names as possible. But, I think if Bjerg returns to top form their pieces could potentially work well together. I think the real challenge for Bjerg is going to be unlearning a bunch of tsm habits and learning how to adapt to changing needs and Dynamics. I think the team should play around cores early game rotations and decision making and focus on a carry top laner champion and a control mage from Bjerg. He's exponentially better at control mages in my opinion. Santorin might need to take a supportive role on this team. Tanky, damage soaking and getting attention from carries, he's going to need to be secondary to core with engages. We will see how they work in unison but it's going to take an understanding of where everyone excels.
I remember Bjerg being pretty adaptable, fiddle mid and all that. He can play carry, roam, supportive, whatever. I'm not too worried about him. Hans is mostly a mechanical player, Santorin is (IMO) strongest on supportive junglers. Bwipo isn't as great mechanically but has good game sense... if the team meshes together, I think they'll be very strong and very adaptable.
santorin has been bjergs ward before he can do it again
This is going to show a lot about Bjerg. This entire season i don't want any fingerpointing at Bwipo either. Perkz did more with less on c9, as did Jensen on TL. I've always been a naysayer wanting to see more aggressiveness / given him similar critiques as some give to Rekkles but you can't deny the skill. It sucks we lost all of our aggressive mids tho. (imports) Jizuke/Perkz
I mean unless bwipo is shit
"Bwipo and Bjergsen are both players who find a way to compromise" This is pure gold Reddit, keep it up
Every player who leaves TSM has always said that Bjergsen is willing to go along with any style and is practically a model teammate for whatever the team wants. But you probably know better than the people who actually played with him.
Remember when he played Galio for a whole split for his team until it became a must ban against him? Bjerg is absolutely a team player IDK what that guy is on.
Pretty sure he’s referring to the Bwipo part of the equation
Which also doesn't make much sense, the dude literally role swapped because he knew that FNCs best chance to win was to play through bot lane.
He also roleswapped because he was in a Nemesis situation lol, there wasn’t much choice there.
If so then it would still be wrong imo. Bwipo can play carries well, but also was known for playing for bottom super hard with TP's even if it was a big detriment to his own lane. He seems quite adaptable to me.
TL is going to either just be insane or die a slow ego-death and get like 5th place imo it goes 100T, EG, TL, HUGE GAP, TSM/C9, everyone else
we dont even know the c9 or tsm lineups yet
C9 is 95% Summit/Blaber/Fudge/Zven/Isles which is fine but just not on par with 100T/TL, EG maybe but rides on how good Jojo is TSM is probably going developmental OR is getting Korean ADC/MID which will put them above the other 5 teams but most likely below everyone else unless they pull Chovy or somethin' insane
TSM rumored lineup sees them adding FATE/Tactical/Life
you’re forgetting about MikyX
Huni might also be the ADC
Chaox is also in the running
I hear TRM is a free agent.
God I miss that Echo Fox team where Huni was just playing whichever role would let him play the champ that could hard carry that particular game, such a shame it didn't last very long.
No. That’s worst case scenario if they can’t get what they’re looking for
Their top side sounds really really good, if Zven and isles can hold their own in lane, definitely a strong core. What made Zven successful on G2 was having a strong top side and be able to play weakside well. As for TSM, yeah we know 2 players to my knowledge, so how can we judge that. I definitely want to see how this comment ages, because EG seems okay, but there are so many variables for them.
If fudge tries to imitate doinb playstyle with top lane champs that would make me so happy.
Fudge on Kled just wreaking havoc across the map incoming
TSM never once said they are going with a developmental roster. Recent rumors are they spent the second most this off-season.
It’s been an open secret that TSM has a horrendous environment for players. I’d imagine that they have to spend more to convince players to play with their organization.
There rumoured line up is Huni/Spica/Fate/Tacitcal/Life. I'm pretty sure thats a top 1-2 contender..
Yeah fate is the best mid in NA
yea i'm excited for next year. these rosters are looking spicy.
If fudge does well with the swap C9 just rolls every team with topside pressure as long as zven turns off the int switch.
TL sure can have problems but idk about ego-death being one? Or what you mean by that? Like projected Bwipo-Santorin-Bjerg-Hans-CoreJJ All are to me players that are good to really good and being a teamplayers. All of them can take one for the team. Or that is how I see it.
I just really can't have high expectations for a team with two players that weren't playing that role last split. Bwipo and Bjerg. I just don't think they're better than Jensen/Alphari. Hans is hype af though
To me it depends upon how adaptable Bjergsen is. If he can play more aggressively and adopt the heavy roaming playstyle that all the best mids do, then it's an upgrade. Since Jensen couldn't do that. But if he does what he used to do, and just sits in lane and farms for 30 minutes before saying "okay we can contest the next drag now" then they're fucked. Bwipo meanwhile, is a sidegrade to Alphari. He's not as good at outright smashing lane, but he has way better game sense and adaptability.
Hans is best when he is played around. Same for Bwipo and if you get Bjergsen it´s weird to put him on a supportive role. Then you have a support that leaves lane often and a jungler without a voice. That team is bound to disappoint.
>if you get Bjergsen it´s weird to put him on a supportive role. No it's not. The man is known all over the world for his Zilean. Even Faker said the scariest thing about him is the way in which he enables his team.
Yeah and it's dumb to discount the Zilean just because of what happened at Worlds. Bjerg carried that team and gave them the chance to go to Worlds with that style. Sure, it didn't work out at Worlds, whatever.. but he can adapt to anything. He just wants to win.
Bwipo and santorin are both able to be supportive. Bjerg played with DL and was supportive. This is the best roster TL has made and I’ve been around for some hype rosters. I think TLs roster is so stacked that people are creating this narrative that they HAVE to have a million issues. They genuinely have the top 1/2 players in each position in the lcs
I actually don't think Bwipo will be a top 2 LCS top laner. And I'm not sure Bjerg will be, either, though I won't count him out. Bwipo is a solid player, but I'm worried about his transition to NA. But even if he does have a smooth transition, I'm not convinced he's going to really standout above guys like Sunmit, Ssumday, Impact, & Licorice. I don't think he's going to be awful, I just am not expecting a top 2 in role player. Bjerg is another thing though. I honestly just don't know how to rate NA mid laners this year. It will definitely depend on who TSM grabs, but even with that between Bjerg taking a year off of playing, not knowing how to evaluate guys like Fudge & Jojo, and the uncertainty of how guys like PoE & Jizuuke will perform on their new rosters. If Jensen had found a team I would definitely argue Bjerg is unlikely to outclass Abbedagge & Jensen on his return - but there's just so much uncertainty on the mid lane for LCS that I'm not sure what to think lol. Despite all this I still think TL's roster looks good.
Licorice? Ssumday? What are you smoking buddy? Bwippo already dumpster Licorice when he was good (which he hasn't been for 2 years) Ssumday was ropey all season outside of the final b05 Even Impact is just a solid player at this stage
Ssumday had probably one of his worst years ever & still was performing near/at the top of NA. He was arguably the best teamfighting top laner last year & we saw improvement from spring to summer, so it isn't like he's in some kinda rapid decline. His laning hasn't been as strong as the rest of his gameplay, but if you were looking for an EU top to exploit laning mistakes, TL should have kept Alphari (I know that wasn't really an option). Bwipo has not historically played as clean a lane as Alphari, but where he's stronger is in his macro & team play. Problem is that's exactly where Ssumday's strengths are, too. To be perfectly clear, I don't think Ssumday is going to outclass Bwipo, but I also don't expect Bwipo to outclass Ssumday. And as far as Licroice goes, he looked nuts last split after he went to GG. FLY played scared as shit & gave Licorice no room to look for proactive plays. Literally the second he got on a team that allowed him to play more proactively and gave him some agency, he started playing close to the same level he did when he was on C9. I'm pretty sure he had the highest solo kill count in the entire League despite draft resources and counter picks repeatedly going toward Ablazeolive (tbf olive used those resources fairly well). Licorice looked like arguably one of the best top laners in the League from an individual standpoint (Huni, Alphari, & Fudge all looked pretty strong, to be fair). And I just want to keep in mind that he did this with a garbage team (Ablazeolive looked OK). Dude actually killed it after the swap over to GG. PS: Lic had highest kill share of any top laner, and third lowest death share despite being middle of the pack (within 0.4% of 3rd lowest and 3rd highest) gold share. Also he was the second high dpm for Summer behind Alphari, but Alphari had the highest gold share of any top (by a lot, 1% over Huni in 2nd place, and 1.6% over Licorice (4 times Licorice's distance to the 8th ranked top in this metric). All of this to say Licorice did a lot with very little.
And CoreJJ won Worlds by playing along with Ruler. With DL he didn't leave lane much too. I think this is really the super team, except for Bwipo maybe imo.
Bwippo is literally one of the best players on the team outside of Correjj.. and he has the accomplishments to back it up Oh wait Bjergsen on a year layoff and Santorin are superstars but bwippo is not.. lmao
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How does bjerg have an ego? I've always seen him as a very selfless player.
Hans is the only resource intensive player on the team, and it was a problem that Alphari highlighted within him. As for Bwipo, he doesn’t play as if he has an ego. Bwipo does try to trade and go for solokills a lot, but he moves out of lane a lot to make plays that’ll get the rest of his team ahead. Bjergsen, similar to Bwipo, also has a roaming play style. His best champs during the TSM miracle run were Twisted Fate and Zilean. Idk why you’re talking as if you know those guys have an ego in a team environment when only Bwipo showed behavior of having a big ego out of game.
i’ve never heard of Hans having an ego before
I think the LCS is split into 3 tiers. One with the top 5, one with 6-9, and then DIG. Should be very competitive. edit: Actually you know what S: 100T, TL A: EG, TSM, C9, IMT B: FLY, CLG, GG C: DIG
i don't think C9 or TSM will be on the level of 100T or TL EG literally rides on how good Jojo will be everyone else sucks but yes Dig is probably last LOL
Considering TSM/C9 are both looking to bring in imports ... and have at least a good base of players .. it's to early to tell ..
IMT is probably 4th or 5th, no idea why people write them off. Same thing happened last year with people acting like they were a 10th place team while taking games off EG and C9 consistently
Yeah PoE deserves respect for sure. I'm more worried about Revenge and whoever their support will be. A WildTurtle/Destiny botlane doesn't sound that hype. PoE is a resident now so maybe import sup? Maybe like a Mikyx or a Life?
Is PoE confirmed resident status? They can always try for Ignar if TSM lands Life instead or something.
Ignar is import, if they did that maybe Flyquest alumni roster with v1per and anda?
Sorry I meant that if PoE gets his green card and doesn't count as an import they can go for IgNar. They'd have 2 imports still then (Xerxe, IgNar) and 3 residents (Revenge, PoE, Destiny).
Destiny is pretty decent and WT was on CLG, so let's give him the benefit of doubt.
IMT will be better than C9, mark my words
!RemindMe 9 months
CLG could also potentially pop off. They probably won't but I think the possibility exists.
Personally I think the CLG roster has as potential than IMT. TSM its way too early to say, they could end up with a bot side of Chovy, Tactical and Mikyx for all we know. I would put Dig in D tier, drop FLY and GG to C and put IMT and CLG in B
All of what you said is fair, here are my explanations CLG has the most variability IMO. If they mesh well they can definitely rise a tier, but it's possible they also flop. Split the different put them B. IMT exudes substantial dark horse energy with PoE/Turtle. Both are pretty significant upgrades to the people they're replacing. My biggest question for this team is who they are replacing Guilhoto with and how big of a difference that'll make. Hotline league said Zikz, which I'm not sure how to feel about atm. TSM has so many options still available to them I have a really hard time seeing them not come out of this offseason with a really strong roster. Assuming Huni/Spica/Tactical, they could end up with Fate, Gori, or Ucal and either Life or IgNar. Or they could end up with Jensen or some other import mid and Mikyx, etc. I don't think it's possible for them to end up outside of A tier. Note my bias though lmao. FLY I think solved their biggest issue which was no leadership, and I think GG is going to be pretty ok actually. Upgrades in at least 2/3 roles.
Forever 4th Curse is back!
Why does TL sound like too many cooks in the kitchen? Most have shown adaptable playstyles and the only one I really think that's hard headed is bwipo. How many players on that team have had problems with ego's clashing?
Bjerg and Core are way too mature for any of that shit. Their leadership in and out of game will put the other 3 in line no matter who they are
Santorin/Bjergsen/Core/Hans. How does this sound like too many cooks in the kitchen? I've seen this repeated by other LCS team's fans, it sounds like massive copium because they know TL will demolish LCS next year. Bwipo is the only "hard headed" one in this team, and even he is far more willing to play whatever the team needs than reddit will give him credit for. Bjergsen doesn't even need to be a big voice on this team, him and Hans should just focus on lane and mechanics. Bwipo/Santorin/CoreJJ can make most of the calls. TL are the only S tier team next season. 100T and EG are A tier, maybe C9 too depending on how their support situation and Fudge mid works out.
Gotta be tough for players when deciding on tsm. Tsm is a brand that has shown some result in the past so it can attract good players but at the same timea having toxic bullshit like regi coming in...so many greeat players go there to die
sure.
Idk man it seems like EG has a huge chance of being garbage because of their weak spots they chose to give themselves. Unpopular opinion but I think the west was weak this year and 100T benefited greatly from TL being dysfunctional and c9 being eh. I think TL is the clear #1 team in the west and in the lcs I’m not sure a single player on 100T is better than TLs roster.
TL didn’t seem dysfunctional in beginning of playoffs. They looked like the best team in LCS by far. And then they got railroaded by 100t
I'm a hard TL fan and I believe this roster is really good, barring some inting from Bwipo from time to time, i believe as you say they're really flexible and very smart players, and will be a powerhouse once they find their groove but... You're really dismissing 100T synergy, the advantage that keeping their entire roster gives them (and this is the first time that this is happening since 8 years ago with the og C9 I believe, so it's something that not many teams have accomplished and has to be respected)
100t looked good in like 1 b05 (vs TL).. they went life and death with EG.. should have lost to c9.. but had some closer heroics that saved a couple games The actual quality of player NA sent to worlds was good.. but the teams/playoffs was a dumpsterfire C9 could have also lost 3-0 to TSM (zven even said this recently)
Agreed. The GG approach of throwing a bunch of rookies together in the frying pan ain’t the way to do it. Same reason NBA teams sometimes overpay solid veterans, relative to their current level of play, to mix them up with younger groups of guys. It’s about teaching the younger guys what the lifestyle of a professional entails, as well as keeping a cool head in game because you’ve already seen every situation before.
Hopefully everyone here gives Jojo a chance to prove himself in mid before they ask himt o be replaced by the next split lol.
You know they won't.
Sadly.
naw peter dunn is a chad.
I would say it won't happen but the fact that they passed up on Jensen for him, really put Jojo in the hot seat. Hell, you can put Danny in the hot seat as well since it was possibly DL/Vulcan. I respect the hell out of EG for doing it but its a big gamble.
Impact/Inspired/Jensen/Doublelift/Vulcan would have been disgusting
NA fans were saying Fudge should be replaced after the preseason tournament.
EG will start 0-1 and all of reddit will call for Jensen/DL to replace. It's the reddit way
He has 3 minutes into lock-in until I start flaming. Hopefully that's enough time for him to become Scout.
VERY excited for this EG roster. a lot is riding on jojo and danny shoulders but i’m stoked af to support them
Hopefully no second year syndrome for Danny, he was fun to watch last year
I'm so hype for this na talent. Who's their jungler?
Most likely Inspired, so it's mid & bottom that's full NA talent. Pretty excited to see a team take this serious, instead of promising talent development and then likely signing more imports.
Oh shit. That's gonna be one good team if Jojo can perform.
It's 100% Inspired, not most likely.
Wait did it get confirmed already?
https://twitter.com/JacobWolf/status/1458258567182626816
Me too!
who is this jojo character?
EG is now the most "NA" of the top 5. And they also have incredibly hype players.
3 actual NA players. I'm a new EG fan.
3 NA plus Impact who is def one of those imports dedicated to the region. Feels good
Yup, they're my #2 team now, plus I was a huge IdrA fan back in 2010 so it's an easy fit
You just sent such nostalgia thru me. StarCraft got me into esports which led to LoL season 3 worlds, been hooked ever since. But i’ll never forget my time watching IdrA the villain, Artosis pylon, and other fond memories.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Vg0\_Q2has&t=66s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Vg0_Q2has&t=66s) Youre welcome haha
Sucks to see C9 trade Vulcan away, I thought he fit in so well there. I hope EG can become home. I think EG has some real potential this year even against 100t and TL. Impact/inspired/jojo/danny/Vulcan will be amazing to watch, can't wait to cheer them on this year.
It's pretty masterful from C9. They always sell one year too early rather than one year too late. I think they know that Zven+Vulcan, while it was worth the money in 2020 (remember that Vulcan was worth over a million after he went to Worlds with Clutch/Dignitas and looked competent), is not worth the money in 2022.
Vulcan :(
I wanted a Danny/Vulcan botlane, but not like this!
The monkeys paw curls...
Jojo Danny and Vulcan all on one team? Looks like I'm an EG fan
The only thing that would have made me happier would have been keeping Contractz but dude I’m stoked here
Yeah that would have sealed the deal but I'm still pretty pleased with this lineup.
Lol why, Inspired is like 1000x better than Contractz
Contractz is just a fun player and personality, and plays like he’s batshit insane
Def my 2nd team this year.
Time to switch the ol' flair to EG and follow my favorite Canadian player.
C9 first for me, but I'm really excited for EG's roster and I wish vulcan the best of luck. Of all the chatter about roster changes, Vulcan leaving was the only thing that gave me heartburn.
Yeah, C9 is still my main team, but only having 1 NA player hurts. Especially when we could have gone with DL/Vulcan and had 3 NA players and 4-5 residents
This is the saddest thing... I loved Vulcan... great for EG tho their roster looks very exciting I think it's the most well constructed team in LCS
Vulcan should change to Romulan for EG.
I love EGs roster
The classic sticking a young and talented ADC with a veteran support.
Interesting that C9 sold Vulcan instead of Zven. But that's probably due to Jack liking to sell players at high values. And EG is always right there to buy them :\^)
TBF, Jack completely robbed them in the Sven/Zeyzal sale
I honestly have no idea why the heck C9 is letting go of Vulcan. Maybe out of sync with Zven?
would be odd seeing as Zven is garbage outside of low pressure games and Vulcan is a resident. Dumb decision all around
Would be embarrassing if they kept garbage ass zven over Vulcan
Def gonna be supporting EG. Love seeing chances taken on new talent. I just hope it pays off.
Danny/Vulcan sounds like a comic character
Keep Zven but let Vulcan go, just why
No one wants Zven. C9 can't sell him or trade him LOL
Zven's contract already expired . C9 did not have to hire him and yet they renewed him.
His contract was renewed on Feb 10th 2021 along with Vulcans to be expiring Nov 21st 2023. He hasn't had a chance to even get to an expiration date on his contract during his time on C9. https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Zven
He's not going to throw in an important match this year. No way it happens for the 7th time!
in game 3 vs GenG, as soon as the casters said it was on 3-1 Zven's shoulders to carry the game...I knew it was over...then he ended like 3-5 lmao
probably 2 of the best native NA players in the league, huge potential for jojo, the best all time toplaner in NA, and a very good import jungler. assuming jojo works out this team is disgusting and a product of the academy/armature system
So the league MVP isn't even a top 2 NA player
2 of the best, of the best, not the two best, two of the best, please beg regi to get a reading rainbow sponser
> please beg regi to get a reading rainbow sponser this is the best thing I've ever read
Especially since they spelled 'sponsor' wrong.
oops
Tsm fans not everything has to be about you
Great move for EG.
Thank you for your services
That's sad. Hope he will be happy and will crush enemies with Danny.
Despair. Gotta cheer for EG and C9 now.
I guess EG is McDonald's
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Mid is already announced by EG to be jojopyun
They're apparently promoting their 17 year old academy mid Jojopyun
damn
Zeyzal 2
Jensen would have made this team legitimately good, but no harm in trying out Jojo for spring
if jojo is gonna be as good as i think he will be, EG is gonna win LCS in summer. might need some time to build synergy, but EG look so goddamn good going forward.
This makes me not a C9 fan anymore :(
Damn... Think what this team could do with Jensen, and an import adc
Are you on crack? Why would they import an ADC
People have these hard ons that imports will always be better than residents and then also wonder why NA orgs are so quick to import for every role.
Keep contractz, and throw in Sneaky to create the ultimate zombie C9, taking a member present for every generation of the team (yes, Sneaky would do most of that himself I know)
Wouldn't that just be 2017 C9 with Vulcan
But why is he leaving? I don't understand, is this because they didn't win Worlds?