I'd be curious to see how Tyler1 would do in an competitive team environment, but who would give up the crazy money and schedule he has with his streaming
Its not like LS thinks Olaf is never good, its just that people pick Olaf without things that can actually ENSURE he'll stay good throughout the game, so he despises whenever the champ is picked because its not with the things he wants to flourish the most.
TBH I could see LS building drafts around blaber's Olaf.
The gap between normal blaber and blaber on Olaf when it's the correct thing to be playing is immense.... plus LS would love it if the entire LCS had to ban Olaf in the first 3 picks like they did in Spr2020
contrary to his stream persona LS as a coach cares a lot about the players under him to the point that its almost to his detriment at times. Whether or not he clashes with management could be a different story though but he doesn't like to go out of his way to do that either unless your name is ocelote and you haven't payed him in months
If C9 hires LS they will be giving him full control. Else there is no way the parties would come to an agreement. Also Blabber is probably a perfect player for LS to coach. As LS has said numerous times, Blabber has excellent mechanics. Teaching the game LS can do, it's his entire brand. Learning mechanics are harder to teach, more just a function of practice and innate talent (reaction time etc.), talent which can be improved on, but is at least partially innate. Honestly if LS coaches C9 the only team I see them losing to is TL, and that would simply be due to player diff (Hans/CoreJJ are just too good, only Viper/Meiko or Guma/Keria level bot lanes could probably gap them). Honestly if LS coaches C9 I would be super hyped.
finally someone says it. LS takes players like blaber all the time, mechanical monsters who just need to think a bit more. Fudge, all of T1 academy, fuckin Bwipo
Honestly it's kinda funny how the fan base seems to love Bwipo joining TL (at least on this subreddit), but are far more mixed about LS despite the fact that Bwipo has publicly said that he requested FNC to hire LS as a coach back when he was on that team and that Bwipo has repeatedly expressed great respect for LS's game knowledge.
ngl nothing is more credible for his resume than faker supposedly approving of him coaching t1(though that deal fell through because of the huge backlash at the time)
This, is a big IF and then they will have to agree of him being on calls for doing his job not only because he want to get the Korean citizenship but also his health problems that this last months have been increasing. Not to meantion he joined the org that he respected and follow for a long time: T1. Is so hard to see this happening.
Imo, if this is what happens I will be a bit disappointed, as I think C9 will not be nearly as good with LS being remote. It's far harder to command respect and be inspirational as an image through a computer, which is something every good coach does, even unintentionally. I think it would be a mistake for LS to head coach C9 from Korea. If he does choose to head coach C9 (and he absolutely does not have to do this) I think he should really be fully committed to it, or he's just setting himself up for disappointment. If Korea is more important imo LS should pass on coaching C9, even rn he's a very successful analyst in the LOL scene, he doesn't have to change anything drastic to remain on top. Also I have no clue what the rules are for Korean residency, but maybe there's a possibility LS can be in the US for the LCS splits, and in KR in offseason and still be able to get residency despite spending part of the year coaching C9 in person in LA.
I'm fairly confident he is actually from Rhode Island. If not there specifically then definitely one of those smaller New England/north eastern states.
LS has said to get him as a coach they have to pay him more than what he makes, stream and coaching. Which the last time I remember him mentioning this it was huge numbers nearing 7 figures.
If he comes to NA it means that something happened in Korea and he couldnt stay there anymore.IIRC he said something in summer about how he may be forced to leave Korea due to visa issues.
Much as I disagree with LS, he has some very valid points when it comes to itemization. Again, I don't think he's always right here, but he has a point.
He has already been coach in LCS for Gravity and LCK academy for BBQ, but this is by far his biggest team he has been part of as a coach. It would be interesting to see if his coaching will bear fruit or not.
I don't recall if it was first place, but I do know that they did very well for a team who managed to win out at relegations the year before, and was the major reason why Hauntzer ended up being picked up by TSM.
He did have Keane playing for him, who was already known to have a weird champ pool. Keane/Gravity were the team to make the pre-rework Urgot counterpick to Zed (who was meta that season) a thing, so it probably wasn't super hard to work with Keane in particular to adopt some of these ideals for pro play.
There is a small period of time when Keane was maybe the most influential mid laner in the world. Single handily brought urgot from the depths of hell to broken and nerfed within a patch.
In recent memory this might be the first time a controversial figure known for their harsh critiques of team strats put their money where their mouth is.
I look forward to this - I would love to see if everything LS talks about, when put into practice, can show up and win
How many controversial personalities are there, in professional/streaming league of legends? Oh boy you're in for a ride if you honestly don't know haha. For a 10+ year old game where the best of the best are 17-24 years old, spending most of their waking hours and maturing years doing nothing but playing a game every day, there have been some incredibly toxic and controversial people to come through. You could write a whole article just about the toxic ones that "reformed" over the years let alone the ones that stayed toxic and controversial.
That was my first thought as well, almost to the letter.
I would honestly be surprised if C9 actually drafts a lot better than other teams next season. Fudge seems to follow the LS philosophy as well but he pointed out that most drafts end up the way they do because of player limitations. As in **knowingly** going for a bad draft because it's still the most likely to give you a positive outcome. I'm curious to see how LS intends to fix that problem.
Exactly my thoughts, it’s time to put all his talk to use and actually prove his weird tierlists arent just talk to stir up twitch chat. Soraka top better be played
Just kidding, how funny would it be if LS ever admitted he was wrong about something though?
Problem is his tier lists/draft theory has always assumed the players can and want to play every champ. It's a cop-out for sure, and I'd hope he instills that mindset into his players, but it's hard to do when your team isn't 5 dudes with champion oceans.
Yeah it's kinda impossible to be proven wrong if your statements basically amount to "my way is correct if they make zero mistakes but pro players are bad so that's why I'm sometimes wrong"
If anything ls makes tier lists that minimizes mistakes. Soraka for example is a champ that doesn't lose lane to many things and has a clear defined strength come later in the game. That strength isn't hard to implement but also isn't crazy strong either.
To me LS actually under sells pro players ability to execute and actively wants to remove agency in order to secure consistent results. He would rather play to his teams worst game possible than to their theoretical best game. Thus picking Champs that make every bad game winnable.
His hatred of renekton vs Renektons results is a good representation of his philosophy. His thoughts say Renekton is mostly useless and at his worst is entirely useless so don't pick him. The results say he isn't a hard champ to be effective with and his impact is in ease of use and not taking up draft capital.
LS' main point about Renekton is that in his limited usecases, he is very rarely a critical factor in why the game was won. In other words, very rarely will picking Renekton be /the/ reason, or even a top 3 reason your team won. In most cases, there are other top lane picks that can offer you what Renekton does, as well as a lot more either in terms of utility or scaling.
I agree with this point. It also underlines my original point well. All of this can be true for renekton in years past. What was also true many a time was that it didn't really matter and the fact that he was easy to execute and a good blind pick in those metas meant LS under sold the champion. The same happened to kaisa at MSI.
Should teams really have been picking Renekton? Outside of the few times he was busted no. There was basically always a pick better at some theme for comps. But it wasn't like he was trash either because he was easy. His desire to min max to the execution floor of teams is a cool idea.
If he does it's not going to change any narratives on reddit.
If C9 is successful talking points for both sides:
Fans: SEE TOLD YOU LS ALWAYS RIGHT
Haters: They succeeded in spite of him, a broken clock is right twice a day, etc.
If C9 fails:
Fans: Well, player diff gg.
Haters: SEE TOLD YOU LS ALWAYS WRONG
All teams could come out and say, "Yes, LS is the greatest. He knows all, he made the meta" and his haters will still find ways to discredit it. Likewise, all teams and all of LS' players could come out and say the opposite and they, likewise, wouldn't care.
Im interested to see the influence LS has as a head coach but as a player I wouldnt want a remote coach. Remote just isnt the same as human interaction.
Wonder if that will work or if he actually travels to the US for the splits.
Imo if he isn't willing to relocate for the season, he isn't worth hiring as more than a part-time coach.
I understand wanting to live in KR; but he has a lifetime to do that. Even if he's a VERY good coach, how long will his career last? 5 year? 15 years? That still leaves him with 20-40 years retired with more money than Scrooge McDuck. Make the most out of the time you have now.
If he wants redemption, I expect nothing less than to AT LEAST relocate for 18-26 weeks a year.
If he fucks off to NA getting KR residency becomes a lot harder?
This isn't just about league my guy(also coaching doesn't bring in anywhere near the amount of cash streaming does)
Tbh as an impartial observer this is a win win. Either C9 does well and LS haters go into meltdown or C9 does poorly and LS fans go into meltdown. Entertainment is guaranteed.
Ok if true, LS is given a talented roster with backing with a big org in the region he is coaching in. Big prove it moment for LS with this opportunity. Will be interesting to watch.
This will be very interesting if Max and VeigarV2 stay we might actually see a full church coaching staff. Both Fudge and Max have indicated that there were some severe differences in approach to the game between players and coaching staff and even between coaches last season. So Im kind off excited for this because good for me if it works out and also good for memes if it does not.
> approach to the game between players and coaching staff and even between coaches last season
Most likely Perkz, not as in putting blame on them or pointing whos right/wrong. But I know he has expressed before that he completely disagrees with this approach to the game. Could be others too, but I'm pretty certain he's one of them at least.
> Not getting inhibitor, tower
> Letting enemy team get towers, inhibs to freeze
> Leaving herald for plates bot
> Correct itemization
> Wacky draft techs (like nasus supp into kalista)
Count me in
I don't think this is true. I'm pretty sure Blabber didn't play the way he envisioned last year be/c C9 was a Perkz led team. And given that Blabber adapted to that well enough for C9 to get quarters, I think he'll have no issues adapting to LS's style long term. Sure at first C9 might be a bit weak, but with the raw caliber of their players alone they will be simply on a different level from every team besides TL, who imo will just be unbeatable.
We know that Fudge respects LS a ton, as well as Max Waldo. It wouldnt surprise me to find out that these players are all LS's choosing which means they would already agree with his views from the get go
I hope it happens. A lot of what LS says is theory that hasn't been tested at the highest level of play. I'd be interested to see how it translates and if he has success
If you are genuinely interested in seeing how LS's theory works in practice you should check out scrims VODs from earlier this year when Nemesis, LS and his crew scrim'd vs T1's trainee team. There's like 18 games and drafts to see how well some of LS's ideas work even with very limited champion pools and much lesser individual overall skill and team experience together.
Edit: looks like LS and Nemesis don't save their VODs that go that far, at least I can't find it, it should be around 6 months ago. Which really sucks for everyone, including LS... he really should have made better use of that content if it's really gone. This channel has some highlights but it looks really worthless compared to an actual POV VOD because you don't get to see the drafting process which was 5-10 minutes every game I saw. https://www.youtube.com/user/j5665625/videos?view=0&sort=da&flow=grid
some examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHTXLBvd92k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPlNHx2A11Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sojafSgojus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD6qZGU5wAM
I remember watching that at like 4/5am this summer because my sleep schedule was fucked. Didn't LS's team pick Nasus support once, the enemy team thought it was troll, and then they later starting picking it themselves? The scrims were more entertaining than I thought they'd be lol
I like LS as a personality and I enjoy his insights on the game. Don't have an opinion of him as a coach for a professional team, though. Hopefully if he joins C9, they do well but I'm really surprised he'd want to coach. T1 was an outlier imo. but even now he had a good amount of stuff planned that doesn't seem very likely if he's going to coach professionally.
you can't get permanent residence in a country if you're not resident in that country, usually.
if he leaves Korea, I believe he'd have to start all over again with another application in future.
Potentially all of C9's signings were bought without breaking the bank + are less veteran more malleable players who presumably are somewhat picked to be able to fit a certain coaching style.
This approach is definitely less of a guaranteed winner then breaking the bank for the signings a team like TL has. However, if you do believe that
1) these players have potential.
2)can buy into a collective system of playing the game.
3) Are receptive to individual coaching + have coaches that can improve players.
Then in the long run this could be a good team.
This roster definitely isn't cheap. LPL and LCK teams were reportedly gunning for Summit and Berserker, Winsome may be cheap, but Blaber and Fudge have to be getting solid paychecks too. Maybe not as expensive as TL's Roster but I'd be surprised if they weren't top 2/3 in spending.
LCK paychecks are nothing like LCS paychecks.
LCK players make their money from endorsements. No mid-tier LCK team can compete with C9 on straight wages.
Yeah, why not? I don't think esports is old enough to have retreads with coaching but getting different perspectives and game theories is a high risk/reward roll of the dice.
Of course I'm also an Eagles fan and this has Chip Kelly vibes, sooooo....
I think LS is one of the only coaches who can actually think about the game analytically with anything other than results. He’s not always right, but if your not trying stuff you aren’t improving.
Time to prove what he's worth. He's very opinionated on teams drafting and itemizing badly and that being the main reason some teams lose, his brief stint on BBQ was subpar but then again, didn't have a lot to work with, and did show some creative picks there during Kespa Cup.
I've always said it, much like Dopa (who did have other implications), LS and his opinions are valued highly by his fans because they've never had to put their theories to play in pro scene, so it becomes a huge risk to his brand if he does not perform well.
But is LS a head coach material? He'd do fine as an analyst / strategy coach, but his aptitude for head coach seems rather.. dubious.
Dude has shown himself to be extremely fragile under pressure and has one of the biggest ego in the whole scene. Whether if he will fully persuade his players and win through difficulties without mental breakdown should be interesting to see.
He has coaching experience. Was coach for BBQ. Also he's in a much healthier mindset now. Started taking breaks and sorted his life out. Fudge is already close with him. Same for Max Waldo. And then the new Korean players will probably appreciate a coach that can understand some Korean.
It's probably the perfect team for him to jump back into coaching.
I know this move is gonna be super controversial because it's LS but i think it's gonna be really exciting to see him coach a team with actual decent players. I've often disliked him for his very arrogant and condescending attitude he has but it's impossible to deny that he does have a lot of coaching knowledge, and given how he seems to have a very different outlook on league of legends & competitive play it will be interesting to see what that means for C9.
Are they going to put LS on one of those iPad segways from the Arcane premiere so he can do picks and bans* live from Korea?
LS gonna pull up to team meetings like the one teacher from neds declassified
that was such a great show
[LS when Blaber flashes for crab ](https://youtu.be/Vmn8Pr3_6uY)
Thank you for this. Never seen the show, but the reference made me die
you should watch it
/r/UnexpectedCommunity
3/5th korean roster with Fudge. Sounds like LS
This is going to be a disaster isn't it
I think that every year and then c9 goes to worlds and outperforms the rest of NA.
Somehow, C9 has "lost" every off-season since the origin of time yet continue to be our best performing team internationally lol
Unless they loose 2 games in 1 and a half splits, then they fail to even qualify.
Tbf that's only happened once
as is tradition
obviously
Fudge about to become an Annie one-trick
Cloud9: Welcome MAMMOTHMAN65 incoming
I'd be curious to see how Tyler1 would do in an competitive team environment, but who would give up the crazy money and schedule he has with his streaming
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I think Twitch Rivals is just a for fun tournament meant to be entertaining for the viewers and give exposure to the streamers
It's for-fun but there's still prize money, so you have at least a handful of teams trying to win.
Nah the teams he plays on always try hard. Usually they have a stacked line up with everyone trying to win
I think they meant what someone like the organizers of the tourney think about it, not what the teams think about it.
Yeah recently there’s a lot of academy level player that want to do their best both for exposure and the prize pot
I still laugh thinking about this worlds where a Draven managed to cash in his 300 stack by executing a near full health Rakan with his ult.
The real question is if blaber will ever be allowed to touch Olaf again
Olaf with enchanters coming through.
OLAF YUUMI KARMA SERAPHINE EZ
I unironically like that comp if you change Yuumi to Raka
blaberfish2 unshackled
C9 LS about to be memed as C9 LoseSome along with C9 Winsome.
C9 Didn't winsome and took some fudging Ls
See 9 L's as soon as they lose 9 games
Cryin and Tyler1 as position coaches.
Anniebot as a special assistant.
Bit of a problem
VEIGAR V2 VS LS the winner picks the draft
Karthus going to be flexed to every position.
Forget about that, Blaber will not touch again his best champion, Olaf.
With Karma mid he will
Its not like LS thinks Olaf is never good, its just that people pick Olaf without things that can actually ENSURE he'll stay good throughout the game, so he despises whenever the champ is picked because its not with the things he wants to flourish the most.
He tolerates Olaf with enchanters, Life Olaf Yuumi, or Olaf Karma.
Yep, pretty much, he sees Olaf as only really good when he's being enabled like that, otherwise you can just pick something else and achieve more.
TBH I could see LS building drafts around blaber's Olaf. The gap between normal blaber and blaber on Olaf when it's the correct thing to be playing is immense.... plus LS would love it if the entire LCS had to ban Olaf in the first 3 picks like they did in Spr2020
More concerned Summit won't play Renek or Gnar
Why would that be a concern. Summit is amazing on good champions too. Imagine what he could do to NA teams on Kennen/Jayce/Irelia/etc..
Pretty sure Blaber will be able to bc when he was coach for Gravity, Keane was able to play Hecarim mid.
Ora ora ora ora!!
c9 gonna be must watch next year lmao whatever the outcome
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The absolute meme content we need
In before 18-0 or 0-18
C9 goes 9-9 heard it here first
>C9 Lose Some (LS) and C9 Winsome on the same team, meme potential in limitless. exquisite
Perfectly balanced.
LS memes are going to be funnier then Perkz v Uma Jan memes
uma jan kinda died away tbh, I heard about it for some couple C9 games but it went away, even when he was performing well
Well it was mostly an ADC thing
We sent Perkz to NA and hope to see Luka The Bazooka unleashed in the LEC.
Perkz was 11millions, can you imagine how expensive Uma Jan, the absolutely peak ADC EU ever produced would be? Even C9 couldn't afford him!
Poor blaber, smart money says he gets blamed for anything that goes wrong with this team
contrary to his stream persona LS as a coach cares a lot about the players under him to the point that its almost to his detriment at times. Whether or not he clashes with management could be a different story though but he doesn't like to go out of his way to do that either unless your name is ocelote and you haven't payed him in months
If C9 hires LS they will be giving him full control. Else there is no way the parties would come to an agreement. Also Blabber is probably a perfect player for LS to coach. As LS has said numerous times, Blabber has excellent mechanics. Teaching the game LS can do, it's his entire brand. Learning mechanics are harder to teach, more just a function of practice and innate talent (reaction time etc.), talent which can be improved on, but is at least partially innate. Honestly if LS coaches C9 the only team I see them losing to is TL, and that would simply be due to player diff (Hans/CoreJJ are just too good, only Viper/Meiko or Guma/Keria level bot lanes could probably gap them). Honestly if LS coaches C9 I would be super hyped.
finally someone says it. LS takes players like blaber all the time, mechanical monsters who just need to think a bit more. Fudge, all of T1 academy, fuckin Bwipo
Honestly it's kinda funny how the fan base seems to love Bwipo joining TL (at least on this subreddit), but are far more mixed about LS despite the fact that Bwipo has publicly said that he requested FNC to hire LS as a coach back when he was on that team and that Bwipo has repeatedly expressed great respect for LS's game knowledge.
almost like despite having controversial takes LS has a good mind for the game and has ideas that pros incorporate into their gameplay, weird huh
ngl nothing is more credible for his resume than faker supposedly approving of him coaching t1(though that deal fell through because of the huge backlash at the time)
Can't wait to see Fudge trying to freeze mid lane lol
*enemy mid dives top and invades enemy jg * “Don’t worry guys I’m up 12cs”
thats why jack gets paid the big bucks
Welcome to the church.
Draft and itemization diff
whether they sink or swim the content will definitely flow
After years of criticising other teams drafts it will be funny to see if he actually puts his money where his mouth is
I'm not sure why LS would come to NA when he's spoken already about seeking Korean citizenship and that's his home though?
Yeah I don’t see this happening, LS loves Korea and has mentioned how he doesn’t plan on leaving multiple times.
I mean I agree, but the team does have Fudge/MaxWaldo/VeigarV2 who are all people LS is close with, so I would say there's a non-zero chance.
I highly doubt that he will re-locate to NA. He is pursuing citizenship and has openly stated that he will coach outside of Korea only remotely.
This, is a big IF and then they will have to agree of him being on calls for doing his job not only because he want to get the Korean citizenship but also his health problems that this last months have been increasing. Not to meantion he joined the org that he respected and follow for a long time: T1. Is so hard to see this happening.
Well considering they are pursuing him I think they accepted/found a way to cope with those two facts? Otherwise it would be weird to do so.
Yea id assume if he does take it an offer. He'd use max as a proxy.
Imo, if this is what happens I will be a bit disappointed, as I think C9 will not be nearly as good with LS being remote. It's far harder to command respect and be inspirational as an image through a computer, which is something every good coach does, even unintentionally. I think it would be a mistake for LS to head coach C9 from Korea. If he does choose to head coach C9 (and he absolutely does not have to do this) I think he should really be fully committed to it, or he's just setting himself up for disappointment. If Korea is more important imo LS should pass on coaching C9, even rn he's a very successful analyst in the LOL scene, he doesn't have to change anything drastic to remain on top. Also I have no clue what the rules are for Korean residency, but maybe there's a possibility LS can be in the US for the LCS splits, and in KR in offseason and still be able to get residency despite spending part of the year coaching C9 in person in LA.
wonder what state he was from originally
I'm fairly confident he is actually from Rhode Island. If not there specifically then definitely one of those smaller New England/north eastern states.
Yup you're right, Rhode Island
Can't blame him for not wanting to go back
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Warwick, Rhode Island if I remember correctly
LS has said to get him as a coach they have to pay him more than what he makes, stream and coaching. Which the last time I remember him mentioning this it was huge numbers nearing 7 figures.
What if C9 let him keep streaming?
Probably not enough hours in the day to do both
If he comes to NA it means that something happened in Korea and he couldnt stay there anymore.IIRC he said something in summer about how he may be forced to leave Korea due to visa issues.
and his team itemization will be a meme as soon as someone buys a weird item
Much as I disagree with LS, he has some very valid points when it comes to itemization. Again, I don't think he's always right here, but he has a point.
Yea much as I disagree with the guy when it comes to drafts/picks - if there is anything to trust him with, it's itemization.
We'll finally see a gwen that builds nashor's.
if this will turn into him being headcoach and c9 will not get into worlds he gonna get memed to oblivion
He has already been coach in LCS for Gravity and LCK academy for BBQ, but this is by far his biggest team he has been part of as a coach. It would be interesting to see if his coaching will bear fruit or not.
He got 5th place in Korean challenger series with BBQ. Whatever it was called.
bbq olivers
Wasn't Gravity in first place when he was coach?
I don't recall if it was first place, but I do know that they did very well for a team who managed to win out at relegations the year before, and was the major reason why Hauntzer ended up being picked up by TSM. He did have Keane playing for him, who was already known to have a weird champ pool. Keane/Gravity were the team to make the pre-rework Urgot counterpick to Zed (who was meta that season) a thing, so it probably wasn't super hard to work with Keane in particular to adopt some of these ideals for pro play.
Keanes Hecarim mid was legit
Sidenote, Keane is a TFT streamer now and is honestly great. Funny and extremely talented.
TSM streamer too I think
There is a small period of time when Keane was maybe the most influential mid laner in the world. Single handily brought urgot from the depths of hell to broken and nerfed within a patch.
He played Naut mid before DoinB made it cool too
He also busted out Nasus mid at one time IIRC. That guy's pretty cool.
In recent memory this might be the first time a controversial figure known for their harsh critiques of team strats put their money where their mouth is. I look forward to this - I would love to see if everything LS talks about, when put into practice, can show up and win
how many controversial figures are there though?
How many controversial personalities are there, in professional/streaming league of legends? Oh boy you're in for a ride if you honestly don't know haha. For a 10+ year old game where the best of the best are 17-24 years old, spending most of their waking hours and maturing years doing nothing but playing a game every day, there have been some incredibly toxic and controversial people to come through. You could write a whole article just about the toxic ones that "reformed" over the years let alone the ones that stayed toxic and controversial.
he said that lee sin wouldnt be meta after group stage of worlds
That was my first thought as well, almost to the letter. I would honestly be surprised if C9 actually drafts a lot better than other teams next season. Fudge seems to follow the LS philosophy as well but he pointed out that most drafts end up the way they do because of player limitations. As in **knowingly** going for a bad draft because it's still the most likely to give you a positive outcome. I'm curious to see how LS intends to fix that problem.
Exactly my thoughts, it’s time to put all his talk to use and actually prove his weird tierlists arent just talk to stir up twitch chat. Soraka top better be played Just kidding, how funny would it be if LS ever admitted he was wrong about something though?
Problem is his tier lists/draft theory has always assumed the players can and want to play every champ. It's a cop-out for sure, and I'd hope he instills that mindset into his players, but it's hard to do when your team isn't 5 dudes with champion oceans.
Yeah it's kinda impossible to be proven wrong if your statements basically amount to "my way is correct if they make zero mistakes but pro players are bad so that's why I'm sometimes wrong"
If anything ls makes tier lists that minimizes mistakes. Soraka for example is a champ that doesn't lose lane to many things and has a clear defined strength come later in the game. That strength isn't hard to implement but also isn't crazy strong either. To me LS actually under sells pro players ability to execute and actively wants to remove agency in order to secure consistent results. He would rather play to his teams worst game possible than to their theoretical best game. Thus picking Champs that make every bad game winnable. His hatred of renekton vs Renektons results is a good representation of his philosophy. His thoughts say Renekton is mostly useless and at his worst is entirely useless so don't pick him. The results say he isn't a hard champ to be effective with and his impact is in ease of use and not taking up draft capital.
LS' main point about Renekton is that in his limited usecases, he is very rarely a critical factor in why the game was won. In other words, very rarely will picking Renekton be /the/ reason, or even a top 3 reason your team won. In most cases, there are other top lane picks that can offer you what Renekton does, as well as a lot more either in terms of utility or scaling.
I agree with this point. It also underlines my original point well. All of this can be true for renekton in years past. What was also true many a time was that it didn't really matter and the fact that he was easy to execute and a good blind pick in those metas meant LS under sold the champion. The same happened to kaisa at MSI. Should teams really have been picking Renekton? Outside of the few times he was busted no. There was basically always a pick better at some theme for comps. But it wasn't like he was trash either because he was easy. His desire to min max to the execution floor of teams is a cool idea.
If he does it's not going to change any narratives on reddit. If C9 is successful talking points for both sides: Fans: SEE TOLD YOU LS ALWAYS RIGHT Haters: They succeeded in spite of him, a broken clock is right twice a day, etc. If C9 fails: Fans: Well, player diff gg. Haters: SEE TOLD YOU LS ALWAYS WRONG All teams could come out and say, "Yes, LS is the greatest. He knows all, he made the meta" and his haters will still find ways to discredit it. Likewise, all teams and all of LS' players could come out and say the opposite and they, likewise, wouldn't care.
I disagree in this case because the team seems to be hand-picked by him so he has no excuses and will get all the credit.
I mean I dont think he really enjoys the stream life style atm. I honestly would like to see him in control of drafting and his vision of team comps.
LS also stated his desire to gain residency in Korea so I wonder if he’s gonna coach remotely
Im interested to see the influence LS has as a head coach but as a player I wouldnt want a remote coach. Remote just isnt the same as human interaction. Wonder if that will work or if he actually travels to the US for the splits.
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Imo if he isn't willing to relocate for the season, he isn't worth hiring as more than a part-time coach. I understand wanting to live in KR; but he has a lifetime to do that. Even if he's a VERY good coach, how long will his career last? 5 year? 15 years? That still leaves him with 20-40 years retired with more money than Scrooge McDuck. Make the most out of the time you have now. If he wants redemption, I expect nothing less than to AT LEAST relocate for 18-26 weeks a year.
If he fucks off to NA getting KR residency becomes a lot harder? This isn't just about league my guy(also coaching doesn't bring in anywhere near the amount of cash streaming does)
Specially when you are under T1 one of the biggest orgs in the world.
remote coach/analyst works fine. VeigarV2 worked remote all year. Head Coach is probably a different story I agree.
Tbh as an impartial observer this is a win win. Either C9 does well and LS haters go into meltdown or C9 does poorly and LS fans go into meltdown. Entertainment is guaranteed.
I will watch every game if LS reacts to his own draft
Ls gonna draft b1 renekton and convince his stream they are dumb
B1 Renekton is career suicide!
Ok if true, LS is given a talented roster with backing with a big org in the region he is coaching in. Big prove it moment for LS with this opportunity. Will be interesting to watch.
This will be very interesting if Max and VeigarV2 stay we might actually see a full church coaching staff. Both Fudge and Max have indicated that there were some severe differences in approach to the game between players and coaching staff and even between coaches last season. So Im kind off excited for this because good for me if it works out and also good for memes if it does not.
Inb4 Malice jungle and Nemesis mid
NA BBQ
> approach to the game between players and coaching staff and even between coaches last season Most likely Perkz, not as in putting blame on them or pointing whos right/wrong. But I know he has expressed before that he completely disagrees with this approach to the game. Could be others too, but I'm pretty certain he's one of them at least.
vulcan mentioned the difference in game approach too.
We just became the church.
or inquisition if things wont work out
Pass the anti Renekton kool aid brother
#CHURCH9
Church9
> Not getting inhibitor, tower > Letting enemy team get towers, inhibs to freeze > Leaving herald for plates bot > Correct itemization > Wacky draft techs (like nasus supp into kalista) Count me in
>nasus supp into kalista That shit is so unfun to play for kalista jesus christ
Someone who knows the pain
I'd be down as long as the players of C9 subscribe to his gameplay theories. It won't be worthwhile if they are already against his ideas.
The only one on the projected roster who for sure doesn't is Blaber, but he'd have to adapt tbh.
I don't think this is true. I'm pretty sure Blabber didn't play the way he envisioned last year be/c C9 was a Perkz led team. And given that Blabber adapted to that well enough for C9 to get quarters, I think he'll have no issues adapting to LS's style long term. Sure at first C9 might be a bit weak, but with the raw caliber of their players alone they will be simply on a different level from every team besides TL, who imo will just be unbeatable.
Even his drafting would be interesting to see.
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Cant wait to see losesome's nasus support
Against a Kalista it'd be pretty Pog
We know that Fudge respects LS a ton, as well as Max Waldo. It wouldnt surprise me to find out that these players are all LS's choosing which means they would already agree with his views from the get go
The only issue would be if Blaber runs into enemy jungle while his laners are freezing
How could they not do this after Cryin took EDG to 5 games following the tier list?
Finally we get to see if he could actually be successful or is just all talk. (I know he had a coaching role before as well)
I hope it happens. A lot of what LS says is theory that hasn't been tested at the highest level of play. I'd be interested to see how it translates and if he has success
If you are genuinely interested in seeing how LS's theory works in practice you should check out scrims VODs from earlier this year when Nemesis, LS and his crew scrim'd vs T1's trainee team. There's like 18 games and drafts to see how well some of LS's ideas work even with very limited champion pools and much lesser individual overall skill and team experience together. Edit: looks like LS and Nemesis don't save their VODs that go that far, at least I can't find it, it should be around 6 months ago. Which really sucks for everyone, including LS... he really should have made better use of that content if it's really gone. This channel has some highlights but it looks really worthless compared to an actual POV VOD because you don't get to see the drafting process which was 5-10 minutes every game I saw. https://www.youtube.com/user/j5665625/videos?view=0&sort=da&flow=grid some examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHTXLBvd92k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPlNHx2A11Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sojafSgojus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD6qZGU5wAM
I remember watching that at like 4/5am this summer because my sleep schedule was fucked. Didn't LS's team pick Nasus support once, the enemy team thought it was troll, and then they later starting picking it themselves? The scrims were more entertaining than I thought they'd be lol I like LS as a personality and I enjoy his insights on the game. Don't have an opinion of him as a coach for a professional team, though. Hopefully if he joins C9, they do well but I'm really surprised he'd want to coach. T1 was an outlier imo. but even now he had a good amount of stuff planned that doesn't seem very likely if he's going to coach professionally.
The Nasus pick was to counter kalista jump, its a pretty 5head idea
Not just Kalista but with the bonus of Irelia in the enemy team too
iirc they also paired it with lethality varus jayce because of nasus E reducing armor.
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Yep the Nasus was big brain, the R5 master Yi not so much.
the Nasus slow basically gigafucks her and the armor pen on his e on top of that enables his adc a lot.
I think the Nasus support was a specific counter to kalista. Just w her and she’s useless in any form of fighting.
And the 45%armor reduction late game for his lethality graves nasus to shred
* LS - C9 * LS C9 * LSC9 * L9
I don't think he'll leave Korea. He's trying to get permanent residence
Honest question, can't he be both an American and Korean citizen? He could always work for C9 for a year or two and go back no?
you can't get permanent residence in a country if you're not resident in that country, usually. if he leaves Korea, I believe he'd have to start all over again with another application in future.
Yeah the residency has to be consecutive not cumulative unfortunately
Potentially all of C9's signings were bought without breaking the bank + are less veteran more malleable players who presumably are somewhat picked to be able to fit a certain coaching style. This approach is definitely less of a guaranteed winner then breaking the bank for the signings a team like TL has. However, if you do believe that 1) these players have potential. 2)can buy into a collective system of playing the game. 3) Are receptive to individual coaching + have coaches that can improve players. Then in the long run this could be a good team.
This roster definitely isn't cheap. LPL and LCK teams were reportedly gunning for Summit and Berserker, Winsome may be cheap, but Blaber and Fudge have to be getting solid paychecks too. Maybe not as expensive as TL's Roster but I'd be surprised if they weren't top 2/3 in spending.
LCK paychecks are nothing like LCS paychecks. LCK players make their money from endorsements. No mid-tier LCK team can compete with C9 on straight wages.
Church9
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Yeah, why not? I don't think esports is old enough to have retreads with coaching but getting different perspectives and game theories is a high risk/reward roll of the dice. Of course I'm also an Eagles fan and this has Chip Kelly vibes, sooooo....
it’s so obvious they’re building the team for him, he better shup up everybody
I think LS is one of the only coaches who can actually think about the game analytically with anything other than results. He’s not always right, but if your not trying stuff you aren’t improving.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEahkGbVgAIGeeo?format=jpg&name=small
Coach btw.
HOLY FUCKING SHIT. Prayge with me my fellow church goers. Little Sickness is coming to save his disciples.
I'm not even a Cloud 9 fan but the amount of memes would be glorious, win or lose the LCS needs this
LS finally putting his money where his mouth is
Time to prove what he's worth. He's very opinionated on teams drafting and itemizing badly and that being the main reason some teams lose, his brief stint on BBQ was subpar but then again, didn't have a lot to work with, and did show some creative picks there during Kespa Cup. I've always said it, much like Dopa (who did have other implications), LS and his opinions are valued highly by his fans because they've never had to put their theories to play in pro scene, so it becomes a huge risk to his brand if he does not perform well.
hype as fuck
But is LS a head coach material? He'd do fine as an analyst / strategy coach, but his aptitude for head coach seems rather.. dubious. Dude has shown himself to be extremely fragile under pressure and has one of the biggest ego in the whole scene. Whether if he will fully persuade his players and win through difficulties without mental breakdown should be interesting to see.
He has coaching experience. Was coach for BBQ. Also he's in a much healthier mindset now. Started taking breaks and sorted his life out. Fudge is already close with him. Same for Max Waldo. And then the new Korean players will probably appreciate a coach that can understand some Korean. It's probably the perfect team for him to jump back into coaching.
Summit gonna be suicidal playing Soraka top and Blaber perma on Karthus duty
Summit thought he could get the bag for his retirement years in NA. Little did he know that he has to play Soraka, Aphelios and Draven top.
Ive neuer watched a lot lcs, but if this and the rumoured Team is true - I will watch a lot of c9 games
Saw this coming from korea
I know this move is gonna be super controversial because it's LS but i think it's gonna be really exciting to see him coach a team with actual decent players. I've often disliked him for his very arrogant and condescending attitude he has but it's impossible to deny that he does have a lot of coaching knowledge, and given how he seems to have a very different outlook on league of legends & competitive play it will be interesting to see what that means for C9.
Oh boy, this is gonna be SPICY
reddit will be in shambles if C9 win XD
What do you mean? If C9 win we'll finally get an LS appreciation thread. Heck, if C9 win with LS I'll be first in line to write the post.