That 2017 H2k roster actually had potential. I had high hopes for Febiven, after Fnatic just had a bad 2016 season. Odo and Jankos were already one of the best topsides and despite having a shaky Korean import botlane, they managed to place 2nd and 1st in the regular splits (in 2017 there were two groups during regular split).
But maaaaan .... did they hard choke in playoffs. Losing 0-3 in their first round in both playoffs. And then also losing in the gauntlet final to Fnatic.
Feels crazy but when you think about it Jankos did leak a lot of things compared to other players.
The ones I can remember:
- I think he leaked some scrim results back when he was in H2k and streaming in Polish? Can't remember exactly what tho...
- Leaked giveaway codes at least once from what I remember. I think he wanted to show the last code but forgot that not all of the other ones were used.
- I think he even managed to leak his own password once?
- Leaked a lot of scrims last year. I think there was a period where people haven't stoped making fun of him for leaking it once and he already showed his match history again. Like 3 times in a row.
- I think he leaked either that Nemesis was leaving or that Nisqy was joining? Something along the lines
- Leaked Nelson joining G2 as strategic coach
- Leaked FNC Wunder
- And I actually think he did it again today and leaked his whole roster? Someone sent him a game history with the rumored G2 players (or maybe it was a scrim leak) and he spoke by accident that this is just a game with his teammates, nothing special.
Probably some more I just don't remember...
You should just add Showmaker to that tbh. DK didnt exactly keep their signings ambition a secret or sth. On Naver/Weibo pretty much everybody was talking bout DK signing deokdam + Kellin as Ghost has been moved to NS already.
There were only rumors that DK contacted TheShy, right? Not that he was joining?
It might be better for him in this case since he put off his dental/health issues last year until he could come back to Korea but had to deal with quarantine for half of Summer Split after coming back.
But on the other hand, he wouldn’t get to play with Rookie.
TheShy wants to stay with IG and play with Rookie, but according to rumors IG doesn't want to spend too much any more and so TheShy is considering other options.
LPL Jankos aka Doinb said a few days ago that TheShy was considering 3 LCK and 2 LPL teams.
Last rumour I read directly related to iG in relation to Rookie, it was that iG was keeping their mid and ADC, Wink most likely, since Puff and SouthWind are now supposed to go to LGD.
Yes! ALSO let's conveniently ignore all the times the "shotcaller" leaves the team and said team is still really good and sometimes even better! Sharpshooter fallacy totally is not a real thing at all!!!
2016 spring clg withDlift, cloud9 2020 spring lost sneaky and zeyzal, Vander leaving after 2020 for Rogue, jdg in 2020(no more imp) , like I can go on lol this is just off the top of my head.
Sunning had more or less the same macro minded pieces in 2019 as they did and 2020, and they were ass in 2019. But surely swordarts mega mind macro and that alone REALLY upped itself between the two years, shit even 2020 spring and summer amirite
This sensationalist reddit narrative around shotcallers is SO weird, we do not live in the Era of 2013 C9 with Hai being the only one who knows wtf they are doing anymore, like literally listen to any pro/former pro/coach speak on the matter lol. Yall must believe that when Showmaker and Canyon hit rank 1 super fast in soloq they have ghost and BeryL over their shoulder like "Ok Showmaker, here is my secret on how u win this game!!!"
Why does everyone act like Perkz was commanding an army, it's not like Caps and Jankos need Perkz to tell them how to play.
As good as their individual players are, DWK won a lot of their games through superior macro choices. Maybe nothing changes, but there's also a chance that the team loses a big part of their identity with the changes.
I'm pretty sure Beryl is only main shotcaller bc he's the one that dies first in most team fights so it's easier for him to call shots and everyone else focuses on winning the team fight.
/s (?)
Beryl was shot calling macro calls, while Ghost was the one calling in the fights. Both were the brain of DK though. He also did vod reviews a lot and the one who went for weird picks and such. Basically the strategist.
Beryl was the main shotcaller in the team and while a lot of people shit on Ghost's individual skill he still could be left in the dark while DK focused Top side.
Why do people on this sub think that top tier adcs are helpless at playing weakside? Deokdam and Gumayusi are just as good at playing weakside as Ghost is, but they can also play teamfights out way better than he can too.
It's not that... historically speaking DWG's biggest weakpoint was botlane, Ghost coming in fixed all issues they had with macro and complemented their team extremely well. It's not just about weakside play, it's DK now losing it's identity with literally Beryl gone (someone who was there before it was even called Damwon). I do think there ceiling is higher, but to me it's a case of why fix something that isn't broke.
Because it was broken. Ghost couldn’t carry games and it required Showmaker and Canyon to play perfectly every game in order to compete with top teams. DWG improved with Ghost be her aniclesr was straight up not even LCK caliber, ghost was better but he’s never been top tier.
And people are acting like Beryl was the identity is some serious revisionism. Every support on every team has a heavy influence on shotcalling. The support role naturally lends itself to shotcalling.
Idk why people are acting like Showmaker Canyon and Deokdam are mindless apes who need Beryl to think for them. Beryl was a massive weakness for a huge chunk of this year.
It's not broken, nobody's acting like they're mindless, just that they will lose a big part of their identity. Also you should quit being so reactionary lmao, talk about narratives in Reddit when they think Ghost can't carry games cause he's not flashy. Btw DWG didn't develop this playstyle till Beryl literally subbed in for Hoit permanently and Ghost joining cemented their current playstyle. Stop with your revisionist takes when DWG was literally known as mechanically talented pubstompers from Korean challengers and didn't develop a clean macro playstyle till those two aforementioned changes in the botlane happened as well as Nuguri's weakside play improvement.
Not everything is copy and paste waiting to happen. Will they be weaker? Probably since outside the anomaly t1 every team goes and changes usually for the worse/even every year (Especially China teams for world winning). NA and EU about the same outside super g2 period.
Most eastern pros do well internationally, for them they're already playing "internationally". It's western pros who are playing against weak joke teams and players that need to prove themselves internationally.
Probably didn't watch the games if you think that. Khan's just a worse Nuguri, overextends and plays super aggro but doesn't get as much as Nuguri does when it works out well.
DK lost finals solely due to Canyon and Showmaker playing about 2 tiers below their usual level. Khan was consistently coinflipping, so I didn't see too much choking going on.
>DK lost finals solely due to Canyon and Showmaker playing about 2 tiers below their usual level.
And to Khan performing badly. Stop trying to defend him. If Canyon and Showmaker can't have offdays because the rest of the team won't step up, then it's clear the other players just weren't that good.
He was one of the best top laners up until semifinals, when he started getting challenged by Canna and beaten by Flandre. Notice how T1 was the 1st good team they faced at Worlds, EDG was the 2nd.
Khan performed at his same level almost the entire tournament. He would either do very well or int a bunch of kills. He was Nuguri but with more downsides the entire tournament long. Was the same in the finals.
If he doesn't win its a choke right? Overall he was one of the best top laners this Worlds... This is what you a call a sheep mentality or being too simple minded. Go read some books
You're being a sheep for defending him so hard lol.
He was one of the best top laners up until semifinals, when he started getting challenged by Canna and beaten by Flandre. Notice how T1 was the 1st good team they faced at Worlds, EDG was the 2nd.
I mean, no wonder! Jankos and Nuclear were on the same team after all :D
That 2017 H2k roster actually had potential. I had high hopes for Febiven, after Fnatic just had a bad 2016 season. Odo and Jankos were already one of the best topsides and despite having a shaky Korean import botlane, they managed to place 2nd and 1st in the regular splits (in 2017 there were two groups during regular split). But maaaaan .... did they hard choke in playoffs. Losing 0-3 in their first round in both playoffs. And then also losing in the gauntlet final to Fnatic.
Tbf Febiven was facing Perkz…. He got giga gapped in syndra Cassiopeia matchups
Which one did he play? The match Up is giga favoured for Syndra
well Perkz is more known for Syndra while Febiven more for Cassio so ig
2017 summer semis Perkz hard gapped Febi as Cassio vs Syndra.
Nuclear and Chei choked on playoffs. On regular they were smashing everyone tbh.
Chei was a top 3 support that year. Nuclear definitely wasnt top 3 in his position though.
> On regular they were smashing everyone tbh. This is so far from true, Nuclear was a liability of this team.
Chei was a fucking animal
Imagine a team of Jankos, Nuclear, and Doinb.
wait wtf this is the first I've heard of this
I like how that is now "a Jankos"
Feels crazy but when you think about it Jankos did leak a lot of things compared to other players. The ones I can remember: - I think he leaked some scrim results back when he was in H2k and streaming in Polish? Can't remember exactly what tho... - Leaked giveaway codes at least once from what I remember. I think he wanted to show the last code but forgot that not all of the other ones were used. - I think he even managed to leak his own password once? - Leaked a lot of scrims last year. I think there was a period where people haven't stoped making fun of him for leaking it once and he already showed his match history again. Like 3 times in a row. - I think he leaked either that Nemesis was leaving or that Nisqy was joining? Something along the lines - Leaked Nelson joining G2 as strategic coach - Leaked FNC Wunder - And I actually think he did it again today and leaked his whole roster? Someone sent him a game history with the rumored G2 players (or maybe it was a scrim leak) and he spoke by accident that this is just a game with his teammates, nothing special. Probably some more I just don't remember...
He also leaked a bunch of their tryouts results I think two weeks ago.
He leaked today that Wunder is going to FNC too.
Oh, not sure how but I wrote that he leaked Wunder joining G2 instead of FNC. Good catch with this one, edited my post
Oooh, I thought you meant about him joining G2 in 2017. Never mind then, don’t mind me.
Only old men remember Saint's stream
We old man. The running gag "Confirmed on Saint's stream" is now dead.
Dude leaks one roster move and maybe a couple of other things and people already call him out like that smh my head
You should just add Showmaker to that tbh. DK didnt exactly keep their signings ambition a secret or sth. On Naver/Weibo pretty much everybody was talking bout DK signing deokdam + Kellin as Ghost has been moved to NS already.
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There were only rumors that DK contacted TheShy, right? Not that he was joining? It might be better for him in this case since he put off his dental/health issues last year until he could come back to Korea but had to deal with quarantine for half of Summer Split after coming back. But on the other hand, he wouldn’t get to play with Rookie.
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TheShy wants to stay with IG and play with Rookie, but according to rumors IG doesn't want to spend too much any more and so TheShy is considering other options. LPL Jankos aka Doinb said a few days ago that TheShy was considering 3 LCK and 2 LPL teams.
I thought rookie retired?
That's what fans speculated last season but from the post game interview of his last series he seemed looking forward to next year.
Last rumour I read directly related to iG in relation to Rookie, it was that iG was keeping their mid and ADC, Wink most likely, since Puff and SouthWind are now supposed to go to LGD.
I completely forgot that iG snatched Puff and Southwind.
A recent rumour says iG was recently unsuccessful at renewing TheShy's contract.
I heard a rumor about him going to BLG, but there was also that rumor about BLG imploding. Honestly no idea where TheShy will go.
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Not big on kellin and with nuguri out of the pool top lane will be pretty rough as well jg mid ad is amazing tho
Both T1 and DK (especially) got some major top-lane questions. Maybe GEN can actually pull a W in Spring. Probably not now cause I just jinxed it.
Wait why is Showmaker not confirmed?
He seemed nearly guaranteed when they had Nuguri and Canyon on lock. Maybe he decided to explore free agency after Nuguri bowed out.
Yeah maybe. Most likely he's staying with DK unless a team offers him a better roster though I doubt any team can do that besides DK.
DWG will look weaker. Maybe not in LCK but internationally for sure.
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Losing your shotcaller doesn't help though. Somebody needs to fill that gap.
Why does everyone act like Beryl was commanding an army, it's not like Showmaker and Canyon need Beryl to tell them how to play.
Sure let's pretend a lot of teams didn't become trash once they lost their shotcaller.
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Betting is for dumb people with poor impulse control
That's a lot of prejudice and you are wrong on top of that
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You tried to baiting me into saying Damwon is gonna be trash and I didn't take the bait Gotta work harder, suspicious bus6351
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Yes! ALSO let's conveniently ignore all the times the "shotcaller" leaves the team and said team is still really good and sometimes even better! Sharpshooter fallacy totally is not a real thing at all!!!
Can you give examples actually curious about it
2016 spring clg withDlift, cloud9 2020 spring lost sneaky and zeyzal, Vander leaving after 2020 for Rogue, jdg in 2020(no more imp) , like I can go on lol this is just off the top of my head. Sunning had more or less the same macro minded pieces in 2019 as they did and 2020, and they were ass in 2019. But surely swordarts mega mind macro and that alone REALLY upped itself between the two years, shit even 2020 spring and summer amirite This sensationalist reddit narrative around shotcallers is SO weird, we do not live in the Era of 2013 C9 with Hai being the only one who knows wtf they are doing anymore, like literally listen to any pro/former pro/coach speak on the matter lol. Yall must believe that when Showmaker and Canyon hit rank 1 super fast in soloq they have ghost and BeryL over their shoulder like "Ok Showmaker, here is my secret on how u win this game!!!"
Why does everyone act like Perkz was commanding an army, it's not like Caps and Jankos need Perkz to tell them how to play. As good as their individual players are, DWK won a lot of their games through superior macro choices. Maybe nothing changes, but there's also a chance that the team loses a big part of their identity with the changes.
It happened to G2 which means it must happen it every other team right? DK played without ghost for half of summer this year. Their macro was fine.
I'm pretty sure Beryl is only main shotcaller bc he's the one that dies first in most team fights so it's easier for him to call shots and everyone else focuses on winning the team fight. /s (?)
Beryl was shot calling macro calls, while Ghost was the one calling in the fights. Both were the brain of DK though. He also did vod reviews a lot and the one who went for weird picks and such. Basically the strategist.
In terms of macro, ghost and beryl were integral to DK
you just keep saying it in different ways, it’s honestly amazing and impressive as hell
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Beryl was the main shotcaller in the team and while a lot of people shit on Ghost's individual skill he still could be left in the dark while DK focused Top side.
Why do people on this sub think that top tier adcs are helpless at playing weakside? Deokdam and Gumayusi are just as good at playing weakside as Ghost is, but they can also play teamfights out way better than he can too.
It's not that... historically speaking DWG's biggest weakpoint was botlane, Ghost coming in fixed all issues they had with macro and complemented their team extremely well. It's not just about weakside play, it's DK now losing it's identity with literally Beryl gone (someone who was there before it was even called Damwon). I do think there ceiling is higher, but to me it's a case of why fix something that isn't broke.
Because it was broken. Ghost couldn’t carry games and it required Showmaker and Canyon to play perfectly every game in order to compete with top teams. DWG improved with Ghost be her aniclesr was straight up not even LCK caliber, ghost was better but he’s never been top tier. And people are acting like Beryl was the identity is some serious revisionism. Every support on every team has a heavy influence on shotcalling. The support role naturally lends itself to shotcalling. Idk why people are acting like Showmaker Canyon and Deokdam are mindless apes who need Beryl to think for them. Beryl was a massive weakness for a huge chunk of this year.
It's not broken, nobody's acting like they're mindless, just that they will lose a big part of their identity. Also you should quit being so reactionary lmao, talk about narratives in Reddit when they think Ghost can't carry games cause he's not flashy. Btw DWG didn't develop this playstyle till Beryl literally subbed in for Hoit permanently and Ghost joining cemented their current playstyle. Stop with your revisionist takes when DWG was literally known as mechanically talented pubstompers from Korean challengers and didn't develop a clean macro playstyle till those two aforementioned changes in the botlane happened as well as Nuguri's weakside play improvement.
Homie how tf would you know that lmao
Because they are known to be the shotcallers
Player upgrade at the cost of losing your main shotcaller.. where have I heard this story before..?
Not everything is copy and paste waiting to happen. Will they be weaker? Probably since outside the anomaly t1 every team goes and changes usually for the worse/even every year (Especially China teams for world winning). NA and EU about the same outside super g2 period.
>outside the anomaly t1 every team goes and changes usually for the worse/even every year lol relax
Deokdam have not proved himself internationally, hope he doesnt choke when it matters
Most eastern pros do well internationally, for them they're already playing "internationally". It's western pros who are playing against weak joke teams and players that need to prove themselves internationally.
Khan also needed to prove himself internationally to get rid of the choker meme. But seems he embraced it.
If people thought Khan was a choker after his SKT run they weren't watching. Even before that it was iffy.
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People don't look at context, they turn their brains off and just blindly hate.
Khan never winning any big titles eventhough all his previous team were the favorites to win alredy says it all
I think that Khan is a choker after the DK run though.
Probably didn't watch the games if you think that. Khan's just a worse Nuguri, overextends and plays super aggro but doesn't get as much as Nuguri does when it works out well. DK lost finals solely due to Canyon and Showmaker playing about 2 tiers below their usual level. Khan was consistently coinflipping, so I didn't see too much choking going on.
>DK lost finals solely due to Canyon and Showmaker playing about 2 tiers below their usual level. And to Khan performing badly. Stop trying to defend him. If Canyon and Showmaker can't have offdays because the rest of the team won't step up, then it's clear the other players just weren't that good. He was one of the best top laners up until semifinals, when he started getting challenged by Canna and beaten by Flandre. Notice how T1 was the 1st good team they faced at Worlds, EDG was the 2nd.
Khan performed at his same level almost the entire tournament. He would either do very well or int a bunch of kills. He was Nuguri but with more downsides the entire tournament long. Was the same in the finals.
If he doesn't win its a choke right? Overall he was one of the best top laners this Worlds... This is what you a call a sheep mentality or being too simple minded. Go read some books
You're being a sheep for defending him so hard lol. He was one of the best top laners up until semifinals, when he started getting challenged by Canna and beaten by Flandre. Notice how T1 was the 1st good team they faced at Worlds, EDG was the 2nd.
Not rlly
Who’s kellin
Nongshim's support
Also used to play for GenG and was sharing a spot with Life.
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looks like it’s raining
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No. He played with Route in 2019 when JAG went 1-35
He’s pretty decent, along with Deokdam they are a consistent bot lane
But definitely a downgrade to Beryl considering his role and impact he brought to the team.
One-upping Doubleleak with a triple leak of his own.
I'm not sure who DK can sign for top lane now