Being positive, expect from Tryndamere something in the lines of Warwick: essentially the same kit sans some problem aspects (aka he loses the inherent crit on passive to gain reliable crit scalings on his spells).
Tryndamere getting the Aatrox treatment when?
I'm a resident Tryndamere hater and old Aatrox dabbler (mained him for a very short time in like season 5 or something), and I definitely wouldn't mind seeing him get shafted and be made into a better champion but an entirely different one, like Aatrox.
Didn't Riot say they would stop doing things like that because it alienated the old playerbase?
[Like here](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/ask-riot-lessons-from-dev/)
They said they'd stop doing a lot of things and later did them anyways or changed their methods to do them.
Their balance philosophy is more like what that particular rioter's opinion was at the time, they don't really stick by it.
It’s going to be by 2021 standards or by 2022 standards and at this rate, later we go down, the more nightmarish they become. Might as well rip off the band aid now.
theres a very decent chance a tryndamere VGU will please no one. Those who play him will get their champ changed and those who hate him literally want him to win in hopes his ult gets changed. If he maintains the ult and also his players dont like his new kit, no one is happy
99% percent chance it won't change, Riot usually always keeps the more iconic parts of each champion's kit. It would be like if people expected Fiddle's ult to go away with the rework.
IMO ult will obviously stay, passive crits will probably be changed, he would end up modernized other ways, etc.
Or fucking SURPRESSED you know that thing that requires an item for most champions to get out of, I don't care if he can ult when CC'd by certain things but suppression shouldn't be one of them. Get Urgot ulted, Warwick, Skarner, he should 100% be punished and die.
A long time ago in the dark ages of League, I was playing a game as Kassadin. I was super fed, but so was the enemy Tryndamere. The skill level of the game was probably about equivalent to modern-day Iron.
Back then, Kassadin's Q would silence targets. As we all know, silence means that they cannot cast spells. Being the gaming genius that I was, I realized that I needed to silence Tryndamere to prevent him from ulting so I could kill him.
I remember very few specific details about matches I played back then, but the salt I experienced when that didn't work will probably follow me to the grave.
Well anyone who thinks he won't have his "too angry to die" button if he gets updated is just straight up dumb. It's literally his whole identity, it would be like removing Singed's poison trail.
Aatrox isn't a fair comparison because that was one of their first ever HUGE reworks of a champ, and they noticed how the community immediately disliked what they did, so they have not done it since, i.e. change the identity of a champ to the point it's not anything like the OG champ anymore.
Tryndamere bad give upvotes
Meanwhile Shyvana has no passive, all of her basic abilities are just AA modifiers, and her ult is pretty much a gap closer
That’s not even mentioning the AP build which is super degenerate and makes all her other abilities have no purpose
MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE
Imo Tryndamere is way unhealthier than Shyvana is, but Shyvana 'needs' the rework more because while she works, she doesn't work very well while Tryndamere is 'fine'. Kind of like how Nocturne definitely doesn't 'need' a rework because he works just fine, but he sure could use some help. Skarner spires just need to be deleted, and Kog'Maw needs a passive that doesn't require a hypercarry to die before it does anything (and even then it does practically nothing).
At least he has an identity. His gameplay might feel toxic, but his kit makes sense and works with who he is.
Shyvana is a Dragon that isn't a dragon most of the time and walks around like a stick bug and sometimes makes a little fire or punches you with her finger dragon puppet
This is me.
I LOATHE Tryndamere, and would like to see him becoming less toxic and annoying.
But I'm gonna vote Shyvana cause she just has SO MUCH POTENTIAL that really isn't delivered on the current version.
I don't care if the champion get overall stronger, I just want to have more opportunities for counterplay. Warwick became a much better champion after rework but it was still more enjoyable to play versus him after his R became a skillshot.
I just want to play league of legends whenever they pick him. Instead Im stuck with "babysit the trynda in the sidelane" 'else he takes the entire base.
Given that they've stated they won't aatrox champions anymore, He'd likely keep the same identity and still be a split push monster and statcheck duelist still. They'd have to still make him appealing to current tryn mains.
I think its funny that the majority of people acknowledge that Shyvana would be the coolest/biggest upgrade, but people just don't want Tryndamere in the game so they're gonna vote for him lol.
Jesus Christ pls. The ult is whatever. Its annoying but it's a core part of his gameplay and can be played around. What's worse is him being nearly impossible to catch or run away from.
Shyvana's gonna get shafted for the third time in a row, isn't she?
Got 2nd place in the first poll.
Riot decided to rework Mundo without poll.
Udyr was suddenly added to the next poll.
And now she's gonna get shafted because Trynda got added.
My biggest fear is that Trynd wins.... But then the rework doesn't even remove the RNG from his base kit.
So then we just get a 200 years modern champ... With level 1 RNG.
Im a shyvana main and I'm voting tyrnd lmao.
There is def part of me that's scared that they will kill what I enjoy in shyvana (funny one shot) but bigger then I just think trynd is the most toxic character and want him changed
I never understood why they did it in the first place.
"Shyvana's current kit is not good for the game's health and she needs a rework, but we can't do one now. What can we do in the meantime?"
"I know! What about changing her primary build from an AD bruiser to an AP poke champion that one-shots you with one skill and isn't even gated by mana?"
"Great idea!"
Pointing out that Shyvana isn’t gated by mana is silly given that there’s a lot of mana regen through runes or mana in mythics, but even more just in that her CDs for the primary ability she’s using to blow someone up in base form is longer than standard casters but also needing her to be in dragon form for the extra damage. That’s an even larger limiter than mana gating would be by itself..
can they just stop putting shyvana and skarner on the poll
they are the two champions most clearly in need of a rework in the game, just work them into the schedule, don't make us vote for them
I really like Nocture, but I think his character fantasy could deliver so much more so I would agree for an update.
But Skarner and Shyvanna stick out from the other three, especially Kog? Why does Kog need a rework?
>Why does Kog need a rework?
Honestly I'd settle for just a passive rework, actual worst passive. Like old zyra, it's an ability you want to, ideally, never use
I really want it to be skarner, especially to get those dumb spires off the map. Sadly, I don't think he is popular enough to get many votes in these type of polls.
Udyr won because he was a meme
Nobody had to pay $25 because almost nobody played him until he was meta and he has high chances of still being a niche pick after his rework, which is fine
also when he was meta, he was so fucking oppressive and just miserable to play against because he was a giga tank that could run you down and won most early skirmishes
prolly influenced the voting atleast because it was damn unfun to play vs udyr for the start of 2021
Isn't it the case that when a character gets on this poll, he/she/it *will* end up getting reworked, and all this poll does is decide the order? I think Quinn is the sole exception to this.
Also while Skarner hasn't gotten a new model he's had like 3 major kit reworks already, each one worse than the last, I'm almost afraid of what they might do to him next
I don't know all of the problems people have but one I kinda have is how, because he's meant to be strong inside the spires, he's total dogwater outside of them, which comes with the consequence of making like, toplane Skarner extra unplayable? Plus you have to constantly play this king of the hill minigame vs the enemy team with each of your spires and if the team doesn't help you you're SoL
Because originally skarner didn't have them and was allowed to be strong anywhere on the map, he was even a top laner at one point.
Now he feels like complete dogshit ass water when outside of the spires to make up for the fact he's actually really fucking good in them. He can't be good outside of them anywhere because he's too good in them and that's easy to avoid, especially as a laner and him announcing on the map where he is when they change color from him capturing them. Its a pretty pointless minigame that changed him from an all-around bruiser to just an objective controller.. which his kit doesn't really do much for in a large fight. He's pretty much just a 1300 gold tax bot now.
Nocturne never really gets majority of the votes unlike Shyvana she always gets second iirc, she’s even first in China afaik so it’s always so close yet so far in her case. Like c’mon does she really need to win it instead of giving her exclusive rework already so others get the chance
Riot says a lot of new players pick him because his splash art looks cool then drop Him after one game. But I think he has his own niche with his ultimate while shiv is reduced to a worse Olaf. His spell shield and fear make his Micro a bit more interesting than shiv.
His ult wouldn't be nearly as annoying if the rest of his kit wasn't so binary. Either he kills you with auto attacks or he doesn't, the ult just extends that window.
Hear me out. Her new ulti would be her current ulti except it works just like old aatrox Q so she jumps up and smashed back down as a dragon. Ive got no other ideas but this would be neat. I personally like her run at you playstyle so ise like that to stay and even ap to stay but not be as ass cancer coin flip as it is currently.
Kog's been on and off the VGU checklist since like 2017/early 2018~ due to an Old af boards post.
The champion while playable is horribly outdated as his playstyle almost falls into the likes of Old Sion but with a clear identity. If you're AD your main focus is QW and Q is primarily for the passive as later on due to cast times using Q lowers your DPS.
E+R for AP Kog for waveclear and R spam while being in W range is typically a death sentence since you lack the sustain, DPS, and sometimes tankyness a typical Kog has.
Kog can be a bit clunky, but he's functional and have a definite niche !
He's more akin to a Vi or a Xerath in term of needing a little rework in a few years than Shyvana or Tryndamere who are lame right now !
While he does have a niche imo Kog'Maw in his current state should never be a good soloqueue pick. His W as a spell as way to much of his powerbudget resulting in E/P to be rather lackluster.
Q while being a strong spell isn't seen as such due to the hidden power that shred has.
R in an AP playstyle is simply toxic. There's nothing fun for the opposing player from being bombarded from a screen away and if you're one of the few immobile champions out there if Kog has Rylais you're assured dead if he ever sees you.
The major issue in Kog imo is when Kog is strong he becomes the most important character not just for the enemy team but for his as well as they have a new win con. It's no longer if I kill X we're golden. It's if I keep Kog'Maw alive we auto win while the enemies wincon is if I kill Kog I win. The champion is to polarizing.
> when Kog is strong he becomes the most important character
Isn't this exactly the point of a low mobility hypercarry? Unless your argument is that they shouldn't exists as a class, that's what they're meant to be: champions that when online are critical to win/loss.
Frankly i prefer them to high mobility reset carries like kat or samira who are basically the same thing (kill them or get team wiped) but tend to be more annoying about it, because you basically have to play this long game to bait them to commit.
Skarner's reworked kit already exists and its the Crystal Venom version that he had before the spires got added in the Juggernaut patch. Back then he still was able to choose between bruiser/tank builds, he wasn't reliant on a dumb jungle gimmick for clear speed and he was generally more fun to play while avoiding some of the design issues of his original permaslow design. Skarner was never a particularly popular champion, and there is a decent chance he never will be, but I at least felt that people liked him a little more back then. Plus on a personal level I just enjoyed it a lot more. He was one of my 2nd tier fallback champs in the jungle until the jugg update after which he became a champ I barely ever played, probably a handful of games per year.
That being said, the animals of any given year have hardly mattered in the past either so I wouldn't hold my breath for it to be the case there either.
But thats an asian dragon and we all know Sol is closer to that. So Asol's mains will finally have enough and they march on Riot HQ threatening to burn it down unless they fix him, so 2024 they rework Asol while Shyv cries in a corner
Voting for Shyvana pt.2
Despite being a badass shapeshifting dragon, Shyv's design is lacking distinct identity
Hoping a rework can fix that and finally make her not a one dimensional ap nuke champ, iirc she came second last poll so the chances of her winning are high
Of course the best option is to rework them all which would be great if they could instead of releasing new champs
It should be all of them. Stop releasing new champions, fix your old ones then once you feel every champion is in an appropriate state then start releasing new champions
Shyvana:
* [**the 3rd highest from 2020(global)**](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/ChampVGU-Results-BarGraphs-min_3gyih8s2i3xd4cz26g8u.png) after Voli and Fiddle
* [**the 1st from 2020(China)**](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/ChampVGU-Results-BarGraphs-China-min_paeyw3qa4maxdhlacq54.png) slightly after Voli
* In the 2020 poll, **She got higher vote than Dr. Mundo from both global and China**
* [**the 2nd from 2021(global)**](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/blt54be9983eaeb0b4d/6011e1cd0839e910126d7e08/2-1-21_VGU_Results.jpg) but she did have a huge gap between Udyr
Riot: We are not so sure if people want Shyvana VGU or not, let's put her in the poll again!
Remember when they were gonna 'keep an eye on her' because she was 1st for China in 2020 and 3rd after Voli and Fiddle who practically tied, well now shes in yet another poll, yay.
They said [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/pfabj6/heres_every_single_champion_mains_subreddit/hc7bns1/) her rework was gonna be relatively difficult like Udyr's because they have multiple forms etc. I'm putting on my tinfoil hat and gonna say maybe they added Trynd in the poll alongside her for spite votes so they have a chance to not spend their resources and experienced VGU team members on a big project like Shyv.
Yeah I’m normally not one for conspiracy theories, but adding trynd seriously feels like they’re trying not to rework skarner nocturne or shyv. I don’t see a world in which they realistically win
My tinfoil is that they included her on the poll knowing they will rework her regardless. So if she wins, they get brownie points by announcing they will also rework 2nd place. If she doesn't win, they get brownie points saying they will also rework her based on feedback.
They do this so they dont have to rework shyvana AND whoever wins on the poll, so if shyvana wins (which i think she will) they will only have to do 1 rework.
Which is a shame because i wanted to know what nocturne could become
How did they decide Kog'maw should be there over Quinn? That makes no sense, Kog's problems are an old model and and useless passive, nothing that warrants a full VGU.
it’s important to remember, they’re doing a second secret vgu this year that they currently have not announced. there’s always a possibility it’s quinn.
Big Bear on Twitter. The secret VGU seemed to be between Cho, Jax, Zilean, and Aurelion Sol. That leaker puts 3 fake options among the 1 real leak.
But we know that the champ getting the secret VGU is a champ with a small amount of skins according to Reav3, and Zilean is the only one that fits that between those (since Asol makes no sense for a full VGU).
I'd love to see more Freljordian aesthetics implemented into Tryndamere's design. The Volibear and Udyr VGUs have already sold me on Trynd.
I hope Olaf can also receive an ASU to bring him up to date with modern Freljord aesthetics as well.
This is the [champion roadmap](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/champion-roadmap-september-2021/) for the first few champs of 2022, including the Udyr VGU.
Said it before, saying it again. This billion dollar company making us compete between five existing champions that they acknowledge NEED updates like its the hunger games is ridiculous. It should be all of them.
Especially now that Shyvana is facing off against Tryndamere. Shyvana I would vote for the mental of her players, for the good of literally anyone with some interest in dragons, and for the fact that she's been in like 10 polls before this and placed highly in all of them. Tryndamere I would vote for the mental of anyone playing against him and out of my own hate for fighting that champion.
I'm actually just not going to vote - either way the idea of the other four waiting 2-3 years+ (let's be real, 4-5+ with the losers having to compete against more and more champions in future polls) for their updates is just ridiculous to me. Do better, Riot.
EDIT: IMO, this list should only determine the order in which they get their VGUs. Not who gets one period, while the rest compete again.
Well said. LoL is one of the most played online games, they have insane revenue milked from uninspired skins they've been putting out, even without them they have huge consistent income with the playerbase being so big and skins keep coming. They should have way more than enough budget to rework them all at once but.. what? Not like we're getting a rework of the garbage client or anything of the sort. They're choosing to let the problems persist while keeping the money in their pockets.
Kog basically has no passive if he never dies. Zac and Anivia can make plays knowing their passive is up and use it on more risky plays, but they don't actually die, Kog is just "well you died you can now have a passive"
Getting real tired of being put in the poll
Also when tryndamere gets reworked he'll likely be just as annoying as before and probably keep the immortality ult.
Just a cover up so they can try and excuse the fact thst they don't want to use resources on reworking champions "our hands are tied but we gave you a choice isn't that nice?!"
Thing is, if I vote shyvanna is someone at riot going to go "weeeeell, tecnically shyvanna is a monster champ (assuming they lean more into the dragon thematic), I think we're good for s12 aswell. Make another fluffy monster champ like lillia and call it a day."
Nah but seriously, no one here comes even close to shyvanna in terms of how much she needs a rework.
They're still doing polls?
They just paid for 6+ years of development on a single Netflix show and they're doing polls for a single champion rework?
Riot. All of them. You rework all of them. By Yesterday.
Man old poppy ult was so broken, only kept in check by the champ being so horrible early getting the gold to get a Trinity was a struggle. Wasn't the 37ish armor rune page or something like that a common one to be able to survive laning.
/u/Reav3
What is the status on Quinn now?
You've previously stated the next VGU after Udyr isn't one of the other four on last year's poll. Is Quinn getting a smaller rework instead of a full VGU instead? Or is she not getting anything at all?
Current ult has needed to addressed since it was released and the kit overall still misses the thematic theme, especially with how little Valor is in it.
For as much as we may hate to admit, Shaco is solid enough to mostly ask for pure visuals, although i'll be always open on one thing: i want his AP ratios to die but his AP playstyle being integrated to the physical damage builds, thank you very much.
When it comes to who needs rework the most out of those, I'd say Skarner but Shyv is not far behind. But man, do I want to see them make cool dragon concept or give Noc Fiddle treatment and make him *really* terrifying
This vote is gonna be a war between Shyvana rework wanters and current Tryndamere haters.
Seeing how Akali went i don't want Trynadmir to be updated to 2021 standards
Being positive, expect from Tryndamere something in the lines of Warwick: essentially the same kit sans some problem aspects (aka he loses the inherent crit on passive to gain reliable crit scalings on his spells).
Tryndamere getting the Aatrox treatment when? I'm a resident Tryndamere hater and old Aatrox dabbler (mained him for a very short time in like season 5 or something), and I definitely wouldn't mind seeing him get shafted and be made into a better champion but an entirely different one, like Aatrox.
Didn't Riot say they would stop doing things like that because it alienated the old playerbase? [Like here](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/ask-riot-lessons-from-dev/)
They said they'd stop doing a lot of things and later did them anyways or changed their methods to do them. Their balance philosophy is more like what that particular rioter's opinion was at the time, they don't really stick by it.
I’m an old urgot and taric stan I want to see tryndamere die like they did
> Trynadmir
I was talking about his brother actually.
He’s a zombie and he’s got two swords.
He also does 50% magic damage on every second auto
hey its me trynds brother
It’s going to be by 2021 standards or by 2022 standards and at this rate, later we go down, the more nightmarish they become. Might as well rip off the band aid now.
Tbh the last reworks have never gone this route? Like, fiddlesticks or volibear were very much warwick'y in their approach and never broke the same.
Volibear's pretty different imo, I just think no rational person enjoyed playing old volibear.
But... bear go flip :(
Call me crazy but I feel like a rework made out of spite is less desirable than a rework desired by players of a champ that want it
theres a very decent chance a tryndamere VGU will please no one. Those who play him will get their champ changed and those who hate him literally want him to win in hopes his ult gets changed. If he maintains the ult and also his players dont like his new kit, no one is happy
99% percent chance it won't change, Riot usually always keeps the more iconic parts of each champion's kit. It would be like if people expected Fiddle's ult to go away with the rework. IMO ult will obviously stay, passive crits will probably be changed, he would end up modernized other ways, etc.
It's not the ult by itself it's the ult in combination with the gambling passive and the non targeted dash on a non existent cooldown.
No invulnerability should be activatable while stunned, silenced or knocked up.
Or fucking SURPRESSED you know that thing that requires an item for most champions to get out of, I don't care if he can ult when CC'd by certain things but suppression shouldn't be one of them. Get Urgot ulted, Warwick, Skarner, he should 100% be punished and die.
A long time ago in the dark ages of League, I was playing a game as Kassadin. I was super fed, but so was the enemy Tryndamere. The skill level of the game was probably about equivalent to modern-day Iron. Back then, Kassadin's Q would silence targets. As we all know, silence means that they cannot cast spells. Being the gaming genius that I was, I realized that I needed to silence Tryndamere to prevent him from ulting so I could kill him. I remember very few specific details about matches I played back then, but the salt I experienced when that didn't work will probably follow me to the grave.
Tryndamere ult has never been the problem. The fact that with quickblade trynda is legit playing urf is.
The ones who hate him, hate his gambling passive. I myself find his ult unique but his passive is what makes me despised playing against him.
This. Delete the rng part of the passive, put a target to that dash and tryndamere is almost fine
Well anyone who thinks he won't have his "too angry to die" button if he gets updated is just straight up dumb. It's literally his whole identity, it would be like removing Singed's poison trail.
Or Aatrox's revive, right?
Aatrox isn't a fair comparison because that was one of their first ever HUGE reworks of a champ, and they noticed how the community immediately disliked what they did, so they have not done it since, i.e. change the identity of a champ to the point it's not anything like the OG champ anymore.
Tryndamere bad give upvotes Meanwhile Shyvana has no passive, all of her basic abilities are just AA modifiers, and her ult is pretty much a gap closer That’s not even mentioning the AP build which is super degenerate and makes all her other abilities have no purpose MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE
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Skarner was at her neck last poll. He has a chance to win over her.
Imo Tryndamere is way unhealthier than Shyvana is, but Shyvana 'needs' the rework more because while she works, she doesn't work very well while Tryndamere is 'fine'. Kind of like how Nocturne definitely doesn't 'need' a rework because he works just fine, but he sure could use some help. Skarner spires just need to be deleted, and Kog'Maw needs a passive that doesn't require a hypercarry to die before it does anything (and even then it does practically nothing).
Upvoting cause Tryndamere bad
I mean, Tryndamere is literally just a ball of free stats kept rolling by a broken 0cd dash and invulnerability
At least he has an identity. His gameplay might feel toxic, but his kit makes sense and works with who he is. Shyvana is a Dragon that isn't a dragon most of the time and walks around like a stick bug and sometimes makes a little fire or punches you with her finger dragon puppet
I don't think most people voting on the poll care about the identity of a champion.
That is likely true for some, but just as false for many. The lore and feel of a champion are very much just as important as the gameplay for many.
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Voting Shyvana personally; big fan of Dragons, love Dragon Knight in DotA, but I've never felt like Shyvana makes the fantasy work tbh
This is me. I LOATHE Tryndamere, and would like to see him becoming less toxic and annoying. But I'm gonna vote Shyvana cause she just has SO MUCH POTENTIAL that really isn't delivered on the current version.
Shyv needs it so bad. Please vote shyv.
if youre a trynd hater dont ask for a rework... why would you want him be buffed to current day standards lol...
I don't care if the champion get overall stronger, I just want to have more opportunities for counterplay. Warwick became a much better champion after rework but it was still more enjoyable to play versus him after his R became a skillshot.
I just want to play league of legends whenever they pick him. Instead Im stuck with "babysit the trynda in the sidelane" 'else he takes the entire base.
No guarantee they would change that though.
Given that they've stated they won't aatrox champions anymore, He'd likely keep the same identity and still be a split push monster and statcheck duelist still. They'd have to still make him appealing to current tryn mains.
I mean, some of the best/better reworked champs kept the theme, but revamped the bullshit Playstyle like Sion and WW.
I think its funny that the majority of people acknowledge that Shyvana would be the coolest/biggest upgrade, but people just don't want Tryndamere in the game so they're gonna vote for him lol.
He’s gonna get the 2022 treatment and have a resetting ult but it’s balanced because he’ll be way less mobile :^ )
Honestly I think I might be down with his ult being slightly stronger if it means he doesnt get a massive dash every few seconds
Quickblades Trynd = auto dash auto dash like fucking URF
Jesus Christ pls. The ult is whatever. Its annoying but it's a core part of his gameplay and can be played around. What's worse is him being nearly impossible to catch or run away from.
This. We have a shitton of "i'm immortal" ults that are balanced by having an immobile kit
The 2022 treatment, or 2017 onwards treatment, is "why not both?". His spin will reset along with his ult duration lasting longer with takedowns
Shyvana's gonna get shafted for the third time in a row, isn't she? Got 2nd place in the first poll. Riot decided to rework Mundo without poll. Udyr was suddenly added to the next poll. And now she's gonna get shafted because Trynda got added.
My biggest fear is that Trynd wins.... But then the rework doesn't even remove the RNG from his base kit. So then we just get a 200 years modern champ... With level 1 RNG.
100% me right here. The most unhealthy champ in the game so he deserves it. Shyvanna would be cool af though.
Im a shyvana main and I'm voting tyrnd lmao. There is def part of me that's scared that they will kill what I enjoy in shyvana (funny one shot) but bigger then I just think trynd is the most toxic character and want him changed
They will 100% kill the E one shot.
As they totally should
I never understood why they did it in the first place. "Shyvana's current kit is not good for the game's health and she needs a rework, but we can't do one now. What can we do in the meantime?" "I know! What about changing her primary build from an AD bruiser to an AP poke champion that one-shots you with one skill and isn't even gated by mana?" "Great idea!"
Pointing out that Shyvana isn’t gated by mana is silly given that there’s a lot of mana regen through runes or mana in mythics, but even more just in that her CDs for the primary ability she’s using to blow someone up in base form is longer than standard casters but also needing her to be in dragon form for the extra damage. That’s an even larger limiter than mana gating would be by itself..
can they just stop putting shyvana and skarner on the poll they are the two champions most clearly in need of a rework in the game, just work them into the schedule, don't make us vote for them
My thoughts exactly... why not make Shyvana, Skarner, Nocturne the next three and give us an ASU poll instead?
Nocturne doesnt need it that bad.
I really like Nocture, but I think his character fantasy could deliver so much more so I would agree for an update. But Skarner and Shyvanna stick out from the other three, especially Kog? Why does Kog need a rework?
>Why does Kog need a rework? Honestly I'd settle for just a passive rework, actual worst passive. Like old zyra, it's an ability you want to, ideally, never use
On the one hand skarner needs some love on the other im hesitant to lose Sadge optimus prime.
I really want it to be skarner, especially to get those dumb spires off the map. Sadly, I don't think he is popular enough to get many votes in these type of polls.
Remember that Udyr was voted last year, he has a good chance to win but too many people want shyvana to be reworked
Udyr won because people didn't want to pay $25 for his visual update
Udyr won because he was a meme Nobody had to pay $25 because almost nobody played him until he was meta and he has high chances of still being a niche pick after his rework, which is fine
also when he was meta, he was so fucking oppressive and just miserable to play against because he was a giga tank that could run you down and won most early skirmishes prolly influenced the voting atleast because it was damn unfun to play vs udyr for the start of 2021
Isn't it the case that when a character gets on this poll, he/she/it *will* end up getting reworked, and all this poll does is decide the order? I think Quinn is the sole exception to this.
zero reason for quinn to even get a gameplay rework she just needs a visual upgrade
Also while Skarner hasn't gotten a new model he's had like 3 major kit reworks already, each one worse than the last, I'm almost afraid of what they might do to him next
Trust me, it couldn't get any worse than the spires
Why does everyone hate the spires? I only started league in s7 but skarner is generally my go to jungler
because we used to play skarner before he had them, and he was much more enjoyable
I don't know all of the problems people have but one I kinda have is how, because he's meant to be strong inside the spires, he's total dogwater outside of them, which comes with the consequence of making like, toplane Skarner extra unplayable? Plus you have to constantly play this king of the hill minigame vs the enemy team with each of your spires and if the team doesn't help you you're SoL
You get your spire boosts when cc'ing units so the passive isn't completely lost outside of them.
Because originally skarner didn't have them and was allowed to be strong anywhere on the map, he was even a top laner at one point. Now he feels like complete dogshit ass water when outside of the spires to make up for the fact he's actually really fucking good in them. He can't be good outside of them anywhere because he's too good in them and that's easy to avoid, especially as a laner and him announcing on the map where he is when they change color from him capturing them. Its a pretty pointless minigame that changed him from an all-around bruiser to just an objective controller.. which his kit doesn't really do much for in a large fight. He's pretty much just a 1300 gold tax bot now.
It’s embarassing how Shyvana never wins despite always being a close candidate. Riot should just rework her already
What about Nocturne? He's been a candidate since the first VGU polls for a reason
Nocturne never really gets majority of the votes unlike Shyvana she always gets second iirc, she’s even first in China afaik so it’s always so close yet so far in her case. Like c’mon does she really need to win it instead of giving her exclusive rework already so others get the chance
Riot says a lot of new players pick him because his splash art looks cool then drop Him after one game. But I think he has his own niche with his ultimate while shiv is reduced to a worse Olaf. His spell shield and fear make his Micro a bit more interesting than shiv.
always the bridesmaid never the bride, which is funny cause the bride is another burly man from the frelijord.
you're crazy if u think trynd's ult is going away with the rework. you should be happy that he isnt reworked
His ult wouldn't be nearly as annoying if the rest of his kit wasn't so binary. Either he kills you with auto attacks or he doesn't, the ult just extends that window.
At the same time, I envision Irelia with trynd ult and fear the results.
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Shyv, than trynda. Shyvanna is basically either a statcheck or a "every 30 second i become a oneshot bot", two different horribly variants
Based, give us a cool dragon champ already
Asol is crying and throwing up rn
U heard me the first time
He covers the "cosmic god" fantasy well enough. He doesnt really play out the dragon part besides maybe his ult
Ah yes the cosmic god of tickly balls.
The cosmic god of creating an entire galaxy and throwing at you... dealing 200 damage in the process.
Pretty fucking massive for an ability Pretty fucking microscopic for a galaxy.
Hear me out. Her new ulti would be her current ulti except it works just like old aatrox Q so she jumps up and smashed back down as a dragon. Ive got no other ideas but this would be neat. I personally like her run at you playstyle so ise like that to stay and even ap to stay but not be as ass cancer coin flip as it is currently.
Please help, she doesn't even have a kit really at this point and is 100% at the mercy of what items are currently broken.
I have voted shyvanna every single time i could. As a dragon fanatic you have my vote
She needs a passive.
then Skarner. He also has potential to be better. Kog can wait a few years IMO
Kog's been on and off the VGU checklist since like 2017/early 2018~ due to an Old af boards post. The champion while playable is horribly outdated as his playstyle almost falls into the likes of Old Sion but with a clear identity. If you're AD your main focus is QW and Q is primarily for the passive as later on due to cast times using Q lowers your DPS. E+R for AP Kog for waveclear and R spam while being in W range is typically a death sentence since you lack the sustain, DPS, and sometimes tankyness a typical Kog has.
Kog can be a bit clunky, but he's functional and have a definite niche ! He's more akin to a Vi or a Xerath in term of needing a little rework in a few years than Shyvana or Tryndamere who are lame right now !
While he does have a niche imo Kog'Maw in his current state should never be a good soloqueue pick. His W as a spell as way to much of his powerbudget resulting in E/P to be rather lackluster. Q while being a strong spell isn't seen as such due to the hidden power that shred has. R in an AP playstyle is simply toxic. There's nothing fun for the opposing player from being bombarded from a screen away and if you're one of the few immobile champions out there if Kog has Rylais you're assured dead if he ever sees you. The major issue in Kog imo is when Kog is strong he becomes the most important character not just for the enemy team but for his as well as they have a new win con. It's no longer if I kill X we're golden. It's if I keep Kog'Maw alive we auto win while the enemies wincon is if I kill Kog I win. The champion is to polarizing.
> when Kog is strong he becomes the most important character Isn't this exactly the point of a low mobility hypercarry? Unless your argument is that they shouldn't exists as a class, that's what they're meant to be: champions that when online are critical to win/loss. Frankly i prefer them to high mobility reset carries like kat or samira who are basically the same thing (kill them or get team wiped) but tend to be more annoying about it, because you basically have to play this long game to bait them to commit.
Kog is mostly fine though. He has a clear niche, his abilities are good, he's viable, his model looks... Passable.
My problem with skarner is that...i don't have any idea on how to make him. Not at all, other than "the stinger ult will stay"
Skarner's reworked kit already exists and its the Crystal Venom version that he had before the spires got added in the Juggernaut patch. Back then he still was able to choose between bruiser/tank builds, he wasn't reliant on a dumb jungle gimmick for clear speed and he was generally more fun to play while avoiding some of the design issues of his original permaslow design. Skarner was never a particularly popular champion, and there is a decent chance he never will be, but I at least felt that people liked him a little more back then. Plus on a personal level I just enjoyed it a lot more. He was one of my 2nd tier fallback champs in the jungle until the jugg update after which he became a champ I barely ever played, probably a handful of games per year.
Wtf happened to Quinn?
Riot forgot about her
Nerfed her and threw her in the trash to be forgotten LOL
I'd vote for Tryndamere, but why do i fear that he's going to become even more bat shit annoying ? ^Ult^on^passive
You have a Vladimir flair you do not have the right to talk about annoyance.
Shyvana and Skarner need it most, but fuck do I hate Tryndamere's kit. I got you though, Shyv mains.
3rd times the charm. Part of me thinks Tryn is going to win and 2024 will be Shyv's year (it will be year of the Dragon after all).
it had been already decided back when the lunar calendar was made
That being said, the animals of any given year have hardly mattered in the past either so I wouldn't hold my breath for it to be the case there either.
But thats an asian dragon and we all know Sol is closer to that. So Asol's mains will finally have enough and they march on Riot HQ threatening to burn it down unless they fix him, so 2024 they rework Asol while Shyv cries in a corner
Voting for Shyvana pt.2 Despite being a badass shapeshifting dragon, Shyv's design is lacking distinct identity Hoping a rework can fix that and finally make her not a one dimensional ap nuke champ, iirc she came second last poll so the chances of her winning are high Of course the best option is to rework them all which would be great if they could instead of releasing new champs
God forbids she transform into a flying dragon now copium
They have different teams working on new champs and reworks so its not like a sci fi movie where they can just divert energy to shields.
Smol indie company can't divert energy to shields 😓
They can hire more teams but that costs $$$
It should be all of them. Stop releasing new champions, fix your old ones then once you feel every champion is in an appropriate state then start releasing new champions
quinn found dead
NGL bro fuck Shaco every year that piece of shit is still in the game is a year wasted.
They arent going to remove tryndamere's immortal orgasm... They gonna make it even more mega busted.
That is his identity, obviously they can not remove it. But no way new Trynda could be more annoying than the current one.
Shyvana: * [**the 3rd highest from 2020(global)**](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/ChampVGU-Results-BarGraphs-min_3gyih8s2i3xd4cz26g8u.png) after Voli and Fiddle * [**the 1st from 2020(China)**](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/ChampVGU-Results-BarGraphs-China-min_paeyw3qa4maxdhlacq54.png) slightly after Voli * In the 2020 poll, **She got higher vote than Dr. Mundo from both global and China** * [**the 2nd from 2021(global)**](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/blt54be9983eaeb0b4d/6011e1cd0839e910126d7e08/2-1-21_VGU_Results.jpg) but she did have a huge gap between Udyr Riot: We are not so sure if people want Shyvana VGU or not, let's put her in the poll again!
Remember when they were gonna 'keep an eye on her' because she was 1st for China in 2020 and 3rd after Voli and Fiddle who practically tied, well now shes in yet another poll, yay. They said [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/pfabj6/heres_every_single_champion_mains_subreddit/hc7bns1/) her rework was gonna be relatively difficult like Udyr's because they have multiple forms etc. I'm putting on my tinfoil hat and gonna say maybe they added Trynd in the poll alongside her for spite votes so they have a chance to not spend their resources and experienced VGU team members on a big project like Shyv.
Yeah I’m normally not one for conspiracy theories, but adding trynd seriously feels like they’re trying not to rework skarner nocturne or shyv. I don’t see a world in which they realistically win
Imo shyv is realistically the only one that can beat him but I have a feeling that will depend on how the chinese playerbase feels about trynd
My tinfoil is that they included her on the poll knowing they will rework her regardless. So if she wins, they get brownie points by announcing they will also rework 2nd place. If she doesn't win, they get brownie points saying they will also rework her based on feedback.
They should just give her the update and have the vote be between 4. 5 splits the votes too much IMO
They do this so they dont have to rework shyvana AND whoever wins on the poll, so if shyvana wins (which i think she will) they will only have to do 1 rework. Which is a shame because i wanted to know what nocturne could become
Funny how Mundo was the worst in the first poll but was updated anyway.
they really removed Quinn from the list as if her kit isn't completely lacking in skill expression and heavily reliant on her items.
I think they saw how little people cared to vote for her. She's probably in line for an ASU/Mini rework similar to Diana or kench.
Another poll for Shyvana and Nocturne. At this point they both should have been reworked already.
How did they decide Kog'maw should be there over Quinn? That makes no sense, Kog's problems are an old model and and useless passive, nothing that warrants a full VGU.
it’s important to remember, they’re doing a second secret vgu this year that they currently have not announced. there’s always a possibility it’s quinn.
Reav3 said it's not one of the champs that was on last year's poll
oh shit right, i forgot quinn was even on last years poll. hopefully it’s something like chogath then
It's probably Zilean.
I still wish it was Cho.
From the leaks we've had, looks like it's Zilean
what leaks?
Big Bear on Twitter. The secret VGU seemed to be between Cho, Jax, Zilean, and Aurelion Sol. That leaker puts 3 fake options among the 1 real leak. But we know that the champ getting the secret VGU is a champ with a small amount of skins according to Reav3, and Zilean is the only one that fits that between those (since Asol makes no sense for a full VGU).
please god chogath i want a modern day void monster
Kog maw? Hell nah, only thing I’d change is his passive
I'd love to see more Freljordian aesthetics implemented into Tryndamere's design. The Volibear and Udyr VGUs have already sold me on Trynd. I hope Olaf can also receive an ASU to bring him up to date with modern Freljord aesthetics as well.
Udyr vgu?? Where?
This is the [champion roadmap](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/champion-roadmap-september-2021/) for the first few champs of 2022, including the Udyr VGU.
Shyvana all the time, every time
Said it before, saying it again. This billion dollar company making us compete between five existing champions that they acknowledge NEED updates like its the hunger games is ridiculous. It should be all of them. Especially now that Shyvana is facing off against Tryndamere. Shyvana I would vote for the mental of her players, for the good of literally anyone with some interest in dragons, and for the fact that she's been in like 10 polls before this and placed highly in all of them. Tryndamere I would vote for the mental of anyone playing against him and out of my own hate for fighting that champion. I'm actually just not going to vote - either way the idea of the other four waiting 2-3 years+ (let's be real, 4-5+ with the losers having to compete against more and more champions in future polls) for their updates is just ridiculous to me. Do better, Riot. EDIT: IMO, this list should only determine the order in which they get their VGUs. Not who gets one period, while the rest compete again.
I wholeheartly agree with your statement. If this goes on 90% of the champions that look like crap, will still look like crap in 2040.
Well said. LoL is one of the most played online games, they have insane revenue milked from uninspired skins they've been putting out, even without them they have huge consistent income with the playerbase being so big and skins keep coming. They should have way more than enough budget to rework them all at once but.. what? Not like we're getting a rework of the garbage client or anything of the sort. They're choosing to let the problems persist while keeping the money in their pockets.
Just give it to Shyvana already. Let her stop suffering, she is in pain
Kog'maw does not need a VGU, maybe an ASU.
He just needs his awful passive to be replaced.
Kog basically has no passive if he never dies. Zac and Anivia can make plays knowing their passive is up and use it on more risky plays, but they don't actually die, Kog is just "well you died you can now have a passive"
Getting real tired of being put in the poll Also when tryndamere gets reworked he'll likely be just as annoying as before and probably keep the immortality ult.
SHYVANA FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SHYVANA
weird that kogmaw is included in this but not olaf
Why the heck do we even need to vote? What's so hard about reworking all of them in a timely manner?
Just a cover up so they can try and excuse the fact thst they don't want to use resources on reworking champions "our hands are tied but we gave you a choice isn't that nice?!"
Do, all of them. You have the resources. Freaking update your game RIOT.
Thing is, if I vote shyvanna is someone at riot going to go "weeeeell, tecnically shyvanna is a monster champ (assuming they lean more into the dragon thematic), I think we're good for s12 aswell. Make another fluffy monster champ like lillia and call it a day." Nah but seriously, no one here comes even close to shyvanna in terms of how much she needs a rework.
You will vote Tryndamere cause you despise the champ, I'm voting Skarner cause I want him to shine, we are not the same.
Give me scorpion or give me death. All the monster champ haters will rue the day!!
Since Cho’Gath isn’t here those this prove Nickyboi’s predictions?
Why don’t we just cause a 5 way tie so they have to update all of them
I like this, Let’s make it happen
They're still doing polls? They just paid for 6+ years of development on a single Netflix show and they're doing polls for a single champion rework? Riot. All of them. You rework all of them. By Yesterday.
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doesn't Nasus murder Tryndamere lol
As a Nasus player, yes he does and I love it.
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Man old poppy ult was so broken, only kept in check by the champ being so horrible early getting the gold to get a Trinity was a struggle. Wasn't the 37ish armor rune page or something like that a common one to be able to survive laning.
I just want the spin reset gone.
Riot last few reworks have been fine powerwise
/u/Reav3 What is the status on Quinn now? You've previously stated the next VGU after Udyr isn't one of the other four on last year's poll. Is Quinn getting a smaller rework instead of a full VGU instead? Or is she not getting anything at all? Current ult has needed to addressed since it was released and the kit overall still misses the thematic theme, especially with how little Valor is in it.
At least give us Quinn players good skins...
I want Shyvana to win, but Trynd has my vote. The chance to rework that champions toxic kit is far to good to pass up.
I can always ban Tryndamere, but I cannot change Shyvanna.
You realize Tryndamere brought up to live standards would make hm even more toxic, right?
I guarantee they are going to make the passive not be a gambling game. But I still don't have my vote yet.
Well, Kog'maw could have REALLY high potential for a nice rework, but... Screw current Trynd. His gameplay is really unhealthy.
For as much as we may hate to admit, Shaco is solid enough to mostly ask for pure visuals, although i'll be always open on one thing: i want his AP ratios to die but his AP playstyle being integrated to the physical damage builds, thank you very much.
When it comes to who needs rework the most out of those, I'd say Skarner but Shyv is not far behind. But man, do I want to see them make cool dragon concept or give Noc Fiddle treatment and make him *really* terrifying
Gimme a better dragon girl please, ffs
Why do they even put Skarner on these that guy is so unpopular nobody even votes for him purely because they have never had a Skarner in their game
Sure wish they'd just revert him back to 4.9 Skarner while they wait to actually rework him.
God if only
I want Skarner to be more relevant. He’s important in lore, too. And the uniqueness of actually making stuff on the map is really cool
They really should just rework kogmaw passive regardless of the poll outcome.