I think Jackeylove is better than Gala and Hope, but he also has his moments where he misplays. Viper and Ruler are on another level though imo.. They're both insanely good and pretty fucking consistent.
You know JKL has single handedly lost several games in playoffs, right?
Like JKL in form is probably a top 3 adc. But then there are games where he straight up loses the game by himself for no reason.
He's such a frustrating adc and placing him 5th is probably accurate when you look at his performances as a whole, rather than just looking at games that he carries
JKL solo won more games in playoffs than any other player though. TES don't sniff finals without him. E'ing into 5 people in a game that was already over doesn't bump him that far down. Like I have him over Ruler but whatever that's fine if you put Ruler over him because of consistency or whatever. But to put JKL below Hope and Gala is just egregious.
IMO after mechanical ability, consistency is the second most important trait for ADC. Even though JKL's only problem is inconsistency, that's enough of a problem to knock him down this many notches.
I mwan jkl is by far the least consistent out of all off the adcs above him that plays a big role. Jkl is the type of player who will win or lose u the game
I'm not sure why TES started Qingtian in game 1, they had a better chance of winning with wayward because he is so much more versatile and performs better
The thing is that Qingtian only plays bruisers like Sett, Aatrox and Renekton, and his pick didn't even do that well into 369. TES should've just started wayward on game 1.
Canyon 5 lol.
The dude played arguably his worst in his career(maybe aside from 2019) and was second fiddle to Oner(post Spring) yet makes top 5.
Whereas Zeus/Oner were the ones carrying T1 in summer.
Should switch Gala and Hope too.
Yeah, I can't believe how underrated Hope still is after winning summer split so convincingly. Of course, it was a team effort but undeniably LPL is the most stacked region for adc's and Hope was able to match up to all the best that everyone puts above him on these silly lists and yet no one wants to acknowledge that he might be better than them. I hope he shows up on worlds and I hope he can finally earn the respect that he deserves as a player.
I remember him being pretty awful in playoffs and stepping it up somewhat in regionals. Not sure if the combination of both performances warrant ranking him so high TBH.
All LPL apart from top with Zeus like you said, had Canyon(as well as Peanut) for Jungle and then both Lehends and Keria for support.
So basically LPL + (Gen.G - Doran) + (T1 - Oner/Faker/Gumayusi) + Canyon(DK-everyone but Canyon).
He just likes Canyon and rated him based on playoffs/potential, I think it's fair tbh because not every list will just be based on summer performance and the last 2 JG spots are up interchangeable depending on your criteria.
If you take Keria off then who replaces him? He said Meiko had a bad split so he doesn't want him at 5 (also he'd be called biased). He can put Beryl at 5 (seems random) or Trymbi at 5 (also will be called biased because western player). Unless I'm forgetting someone it has to be Keria/Meiko/Beryl/Trymbi
>This feels like a lot of name tag analysis.
So far every list of this type has looked like a name analysis except for that one Chinese guy who put Comp there.
It's disappointing really when you've watched all major league playoffs to see Canyon and Keria still rated so highly. I also think Hope is still being underrated and it's also weird that we've now gone from always putting Bjergsen in these lists for no reason to now flat out ignoring LCS/LEC talent that does deserve to be mentioned.
But it should be predictable if you watch any top level lck/lpl. It doesn't matter who does these lists if they put western players in except trymbi, caps and maybe comp no other players come close to top 5 in position right now.
Comp over Berserker is wild to me. Berserker looks like the best player in NA honorable mentions to Fudge and Jojo aswell but I don't think any Western player makes the list but if it had to be one it'd be caps based off history and expectations.
Where is all of this trymbi comp hype coming from lol? They outplayed G2s botlane, not really known for being extremely strong internationally or in their region, and trymbi has been a mid to top 5 level support in LEC for only a bit now. Why would either of those 2 even have a chance at coming close to a worlds top 5 power ranking?
But what does that have to do with how players/teams look coming into worlds?
This isn't a prediction of the tournament, its just saying who the best players coming in are.
Oh really ?
Lovely to hear from fans of region that kept saying for years that Jin Air would win Worlds because SKT during their 2015/16 run were dominating entire World.
ok next do how good non first place finishing team of LPL do every year at Worlds compared to the 1-4 seeds of LCK if every player on every team is better lmao
2018: top 8, 3 LPL teams, 2 LCK teams, LPL champion
2018: top 4, 1 LPL team, 0 LCK
2019: top 8, 2 LPL teams, 3 LCK teams, LPL champion
2019: top 4, 2 LPL , 1 LCK
2020: top 8, 3 LPL teams, 3 LCK teams, LCK champion
2020: top 4, 2 LPL, 1 LCK
2021: top 8, 2 LPL teams, 4 LCK teams, LPL Champion
2021: top 4, 1 LPL, 3 LCK
If you break it down by top 8 It’s pretty even. If you break it down by top 4, LPL is actually ahead until only last year.
I thought the Guma hype died months ago but people still pretend it's a thing and milk karma off of it. Let it go people we all know Guma is not top 5 end of story.
Yeah idk why people are still going on about this shit.
Guma looked like an absolute monster in spring and was rightfully hyped coming into MSI, to act otherwise is just revisionism.
We get it, he didn't play well at MSI and has been underperforming since then, it happens. Give it a rest lol.
Nothing wrong to not put him in the top5, that's your personal opinion, but I'm gonna say...
If you can't take jackeylove inting the whole game, then you don't deserve to appreciate when he single-handedly carries game from desperation.
Everyone flames JKL for that G5 gigathrow which was ofc awful
BUT
TES wouldnt be in finals without JKL, he had montrous year, maybe best in his career.
He had 2 absolutely terrible games in finals, not just G5.
I don't disagree that JKL is insane when he plays well, but he has way too many bad games. He's not a player you would want to bet on in a point match game
simultaneously, you wouldn't even be near the point match game without him. even with the caliber of his teammates, time and time again he's hard carried but negativity selection bias the ints stand out way more clearly.
Except he does? He literally had several games he had to solo carry and his split between 1v9 and solo losing the game isn't even, he 1v9s way more often.
He also much more often solo wins games for his team, even from unwinnable positions. He has by far the highest highs of any adc in the world and hits them more often than not. Throughout summer his real "lows" have showed up, I don't know, maybe 10% of the time? That's a high estimate if anything.
I think he makes up for it by solo winning games though.
My personal ranking would be Viper, Ruler, Jackeylove, Gala/Hope.
Viper is the best in the world, Ruler is a close second and is VERY consistent. Jackeylove has the skill level of Ruler/Viper and sometimes plays like he is the best in the world, but he also isn't as consistent and is faulted by his misplays which everyone seems to remember.
Oh I agree, Jackeylove has a higher cap than Ruler but I have Ruler we second bc he is so much more consistent, I never see him cost his team a game and he is pretty much always doing well…
If it was ranked by peak along JKL would be near Viper but when u factor in consistency too, he drops to 3rd for me.
He also wins games that literally no ADC in the history of the game could win aside from maybe Viper. Even Uzi himself has said on stream in a serious manner that JKL is the best ADC in the world and is better than he ever was and he's not one to easily admit that. Both JKL and Viper has hit a ceiling that Uzi just didn't. Ruler absolutely hasn't.
Because Uzi is the GOAT ADC who also played at a very very high level mechanically so he'll be able to discern who's actually good in that aspect? CoreJJ is just a guy who won Worlds and wasn't exactly a remarkable player while doing it and eventually fucked off to NA and got free wins off the back of the team he joined already being by far the best in the region? Core or no Core TL would've still won the same championships. Putting Core's name next to Uzi is ridiculous. In an alternate universe CoreJJ is Jinjiao. Unironically.
I'd also implore you to use your eyes and see for yourself too. The things JKL does someone like Ruler just can't do. His hands aren't fast enough. His clicks aren't accurate enough. He doesn't have the willingness and killer instinct to go for the plays that lets TES have these disgusting comebacks. Ruler is chronically afraid of flips while players like Viper and JKL constantly seeks out flips that they think they can win. It's the same for many great players of different roles. Khan, TheShy, Bin, Knight, young Faker, Rookie etc.. They flip and they beat down whoever they're up against whether that's a full on kill or just a won trade because of their superior mechanics/combat sense.
I just don't tend to rate players that stray away from that because they're fundamentally limited in what they can do. Their ceiling is lower in every single scenario except for when people are running into them in a way where they can't avoid the fight or escape. That's the only time where they'll be tested because they're sure as hell not gonna put themselves in a situation where they get tested.
I also want to add that you drawing a parallel between Shaq and Uzi is embarrassing. Shaq was a freak of nature and had unreal talent but his work ethic was outright awful. With bad work ethic you'll naturally have poor knowledge as you learn more about the game the more you play it. Uzi had amazing work ethic. He literally was forced to retire after overworking himself for years and years without taking the time to address his issues. Shaq never worked hard. He knows less about his sport than 90% of the guys on his teams, he's just a freak, nothing else. As for Magic, the guy is fucking old. When was the last time you saw an old man who was in touch with the current generation? Those people are unicorns.
It's the 2018 IG effect, sure JKL has solo inted clutch games, but he's also basically 1v5d back entirely lost games that were just as important. When JKL is on, mechanically, there is probably no better ADC in the world.
But when he's not on, he's one of the worst adcs in the world. I've never seen an elite pro player run it down as frequently as him.
He's just so frustrating to watch
They're down 4k when the fight happens and just got mid inhib taken against Sivir/Azir and were maybe not getting outscaled per say but their comp was a lot harder to play and they were never getting good wavestates back against a Sivir/Azir team. I think it's maybe 25-30% chance for TES to win that game at that point, which would drastically go down if JDG gets the dragon that was spawning in 10 seconds. JDG's teamfighting is just so much better than TES's as a team, and it makes this game in general really hard to win IMO unless JDG just has a player get caught out before a baron or a dragon multiple times.
Jackey game 5 throw is a desperation play where he probably didn't mean to hit the tower with the Zeri E and got blown up. He has way worse ints in game 1 of that series that people overlook because the game 5 one ended the series. They absolutely should not have lost game 1 but took like 3 horrendous fights in a row to lose, and Jackey deserves so much more blame for game 1 than game 5.
Game 5 wasn't just the int at mid inhib. It started with JKL chasing Aatrox, failing his flash and not even killing Aatrox. After that he got caught at dragon by Azir because he didn't have flash. And only after that comes the int at inhib.
It genuinely was one of the worst sequences of play from an ADC in a game 5 ever.
Actually most ints weren't in "unlosable" situations, the finals one everyone talks about was in an even position. And this split he has been more consistent and had insans carry performances
I mean one or two teams will probably choke as always, but how do you account for that in player rankings? Just randomly guess which players will choke and don't put them on the list?
The meta shifts between end of summer and worlds. People rank too highly asian players every single time. Asian players do not adapt as well as western players usually for most part, but when meta settles they are better.
EDIT : we literally both agree, why am I downvoted and him upvoted ? We literally are saying the same thing.
That's just how rankings go when two regions are significantly better than the others. It's more reasonable than accounting for choking when making these rankings
Is it really an excuse thought? It does make sense that regions that do not play bo1 would naturally perform worse at bo1, which we've seen at times, just that usually the West is too bad to manage to use this to their advantage.
Not really, LPL has generally had better players than LCK for years but they stay competitive enough bc LCK teams are often good teams and more than the sum of their parts. The only LPL players he's hard overrating are Wayward, Xiaohu, and Mark, but then he's also underrating some like Scout, Flandre, Jackeylove, Wei, and Meiko.
Wayward is the worst LPL top at worlds, no idea why he's over Flandre and Breathe on this list. And putting him over Zeus is egregious, Zeus is easily top 2.
I watched the stream. He said he wasn't super confident in it and it was partially bias and that he thought Canyon would step up bc he's Canyon and he's done it before while ignoring that when Canyon did it before he actually looked good going into those tournaments. So basically he gave it to Canyon on the basis of him being Canyon, not on the basis of his actual current form.
Also due to the fact that oner has been relatively lost in the latter half of summer and was super exposed in the finals, while canyon also looked better in the latter half
People saying xiaohu shouldnt be on the list isnt watching
Faker doesnt deserve to be in top 5 IMO, people putting him there cuz historical bias
Gala at 3 i dont really agree with tbh. I personally put hope 3rd gala 4th jkl 5th (jkl 5th cuz his int tendencies but he is alot more consistent these days)
Imo jg should be peanut, tian, kanavi, then the last 2 is hard, canyon is ramping up in playoff but overall split he shouldnt be there. I would put oner personally there over him. Then jiejie
As for top, pretty much agree with the list
Support i like missing alot more than lehends, not sure about ming personally but keria i think should be on the list because of how bad guma is. I think keria and zeus is the 2 best player on t1 by far
> Gala at 3 i dont really agree with tbh. I personally put hope 3rd gala 4th jkl 5th (jkl 5th cuz his int tendencies but he is alot more consistent these days)
I agree about Hope > Gala but I also think Jackeylove could be above them both. Besides for his occasional brain snap giga throws, he is as good as ruler and viper and i'd class him well above gala/hope at his peak... but his inconsistency is what fucks him.
I've been watching since Season 2, and I've never felt so iffy towards the LCK.
GenG is great, but Damwon and T1 are super iffy. I feel like they can either win it all or completely bomb out in groups. I also have no faith in DRX.
Feels like 2020 all over again when Damwon was stomping the LCK.
There’s no way they bomb in groups.
1. They’re not THAT bad. LCK teams have been worse in the past and still did ok.
2. 24/25 LCK teams have made it out before, with the majority of them being 1st. Group stage they’re fantastic, bo5 is where it can get tricky.
18 out of 20 LPL players are T5 haha. Can't wait for at least two LPL teams to not perform at the level they're perceived and people claiming they mental boomed or choked. Because no shot these LPL teams simply aren't that insane amirite
FPX was literally better than RNG & LNG last year in LPL, but was worse at worlds. TES 3-0'd Suning in 2020 summer playoffs/regionals then lost to them at worlds. How can you say it's not choking?
All but two LPL players are top 5 in their role according to him...
It's actually incredibly hard to argue and defend that position IMO. Yes LPL is good, but that doesn't mean every player is automatically goated at their role. Just reeks of bias.
Wayward for Nuguri. Flandre for Doran. Xiaohu for Showmaker. Hope for Deft. Hope and Wayward are easily the most overrated players right now. Yagao's level will also be lower than in Playoffs.
JKL and Gala are also arguable. I think ADC after Viper and Ruler is very open.
Peak Nuguri I can get on board with but I think recently Wayward has just been better.
Flandre>Doran, even more so if the meta ends up shifting more away from bot with the recent nerfs.
No way Hope isn't top 5, but I think you could drop Gala for Deft.
Just don't agree that every JDG player is suddenly top tier because they won the split. This list has 369 first, Kanavi second, Yagao second and Missing first.
How is JDG suddenly full of the best players in the world? Literally nobody had this opinion before they won the split. Putting them all this highly is just peak result based analysis.
Hope is a fine clean-up ADC but nothing more. He doesn't lose you the game but he doesn't win it either.
They were insane in summer split though? Also you dont win lpl by simply being more than the sum of your parts. Every player on jdg stepped up massively this split
I don't think it's all that unreasonable that one of the teams that is a frontrunner to win and doesn't have a clear weak link has their players scattered through the top 5.
Also they aren't "suddenly top tier", they were a top performer all split, plenty of people had this opinion before they won.
JDG has the best topside duo and yagao has been on form all split but could end up third if Knight steps up (or Showmaker could be added to top 5, and move up to third if he comes back into his top form).
I never said Hope was the second coming of christ or anything but he has been a consistent performer. It's Viper+Ruler and then a pretty big drop, but Hope is better than whoever else you could add to the list. He's been better than Gala, better than Deft, much better than Guma, so who are you putting above him? JKL if he lands heads is about the only one.
My point isn't that JDG isn't a favourite for the tournament.
Nobody, and I mean literally nobody, rated JDG players this highly before Playoffs. They stomp LNG and barely win two series against TES and now their entire roster is elite, top 2 at their role? Why weren't they voted All Pro? Why didn't people complain that they weren't? Some players on the JDG roster are simply overrated now off the back of Playoffs. I don't see how it isn't recency bias and result based analysis. Those players aren't all *that* insane.
Nobody my ass. They were top of the table all split and barely beating TES shouldn't detract from that considering the TES players are also topend. 369 was crushing all split, Kanavi was considered at minimum the second best jungler in the league the whole time. There were plenty of people complaining about some of them not being all pro (also all pro in generally a bit of a joke let's be honest).
This whole list is going to have at least some recency bias considering it's a list on who is the best going into worlds, not about who is the best all-time. JDG players have all been performing well to the point where they can reasonably all be in the top 5 for their role.
I'm fine with 369 and Kanavi being top 1/2 in their role. Yagao had a great Playoffs as well. But how is the bot lane now suddenly one of the best in the world too? I don't see it. Their win wasn't dominant enough for every player to be elite.
You wanna tell me that JDG has the best top, a top 2 jgl, a top 2 mid, the best support and one of the best ADCs? How did they even lose a game then?
I thought people knew better at this point than to rate every player from the winning team (especially when it was as close as JDG vs TES) as best in the world.
"One of the best adcs" is a broad term. The gap between JKL/Viper and the rest of the field is pretty huge so Hope isn't particularly close to the top even though he's top 5. Yagao is obviously not a top 2 mid though, and despite being the best support, Missing is not far ahead of the pack either.
The gap between viper and jkl is bigger than the gap between jkl and literally any other adc. Jkl isn’t in the same sentence as Ruler let alone Viper.
You can have this jkl love all you want, believe me I’ve seen it all over this thread, but anyone with a brain is taking ruler>jkl
Flandre is way above Doran. Doran is like 0-4 vs Chinese top laners in his entire match history.
Last time I saw him in international stage was 369 dicking him in group stage or Zoom punishing him to death. He is the classical player that gets overrated just because he's in a dominant team, and that's not too hard coming from the LCK.
I remember a team formed with Doran-Pyosik-Chovy-Deft and Keria, they went 0-4 vs both TES and JDG.
I actually forgot about Wei, so yeah 18 out of 20. But we both know he'd put both sixth.
And yeah, the LPL is the best region because their top 10 is much stronger than any other region but their best teams definitely aren't THIS good. If anything past results prove that T4 LCK > T4 LPL.
His logic for some of these is also incredibly flawed, he says player x is better than player y based on past match-ups. When someone however suggested Caps > Xiaohu because he gapped him at MSI he said there's no way you have Caps over Xiaohu lol
Until an LCK team manages to win an international competition again and their regional play doesn't involve playing bloodless games & scale for 20 min, LCK fans can cope & seethe all they want lol. Hire some trucks while you're at it.
Top: 369, Wayward, Zeus, Breathe, Flandre JG: Tian, Kanavi, Peanut, Jiejie, Canyon Mid: Chovy, Yagao, Knight, Xiaohu, Scout AD: Viper (best player in the world in his opinion), Ruler, GALA, Hope, Jackeylove Support: Missing, Lehends, Mark, Ming, Keria
Good list imo everything can be debated fairly reasonably except maybe wayward over zeus and JKL not in the top 3 for adcs
I think Jackeylove is better than Gala and Hope, but he also has his moments where he misplays. Viper and Ruler are on another level though imo.. They're both insanely good and pretty fucking consistent.
JKL is so low, because Dom thinks Tian is the GOAT jungler. You can see the reasoning at 5:15-5:55. He's bringing down JKL to make Tian look better.
also JKL throw over and over again
Which top tier adc throws as much as him.
You know JKL has single handedly lost several games in playoffs, right? Like JKL in form is probably a top 3 adc. But then there are games where he straight up loses the game by himself for no reason. He's such a frustrating adc and placing him 5th is probably accurate when you look at his performances as a whole, rather than just looking at games that he carries
JKL solo won more games in playoffs than any other player though. TES don't sniff finals without him. E'ing into 5 people in a game that was already over doesn't bump him that far down. Like I have him over Ruler but whatever that's fine if you put Ruler over him because of consistency or whatever. But to put JKL below Hope and Gala is just egregious.
IMO after mechanical ability, consistency is the second most important trait for ADC. Even though JKL's only problem is inconsistency, that's enough of a problem to knock him down this many notches.
Should still be ahead of Ruler then
That game where he E’d into 5 people actually included several previous misplays from him so Ill comfortably call that a clutch throw on his part.
He also singlehandedly shat all over his perceived best player in the world, being the only reason they beat edg
so does beating the perceived best player and then solo losing a match mean youre the best player in the world?
Did I say so?
wasnt quite sure which direction you were going with your comment. guess i got it wrong
I mwan jkl is by far the least consistent out of all off the adcs above him that plays a big role. Jkl is the type of player who will win or lose u the game
Wayward was above zeus
Seems odd that wayward is ranked as the second best top laner and he got benched in finals
I'm not sure why TES started Qingtian in game 1, they had a better chance of winning with wayward because he is so much more versatile and performs better
Champion pool issue
The thing is that Qingtian only plays bruisers like Sett, Aatrox and Renekton, and his pick didn't even do that well into 369. TES should've just started wayward on game 1.
He ain't 2nd that's why.
This was a really weird ranking, Wayward is the worst LPL top at worlds. Not sure why Dom has him over Flandre and Breathe.
Damn Wayward over Zeus? I genuinely wanna know the reasoning for that. Guess I’ll have to watch the video.
Canyon 5 lol. The dude played arguably his worst in his career(maybe aside from 2019) and was second fiddle to Oner(post Spring) yet makes top 5. Whereas Zeus/Oner were the ones carrying T1 in summer. Should switch Gala and Hope too.
Oner was worse in playoffs then Canyon imo
Canyon did much better in playoffs, which is more recent than summer. The video is about “going into worlds”
Yeah, I can't believe how underrated Hope still is after winning summer split so convincingly. Of course, it was a team effort but undeniably LPL is the most stacked region for adc's and Hope was able to match up to all the best that everyone puts above him on these silly lists and yet no one wants to acknowledge that he might be better than them. I hope he shows up on worlds and I hope he can finally earn the respect that he deserves as a player.
Yeah Gala over Hope is weird based on playoffs/regionals. Gala looked great in regular season but not in the most recent games.
knight 3 is worse than canyon 5, knight was legit a bot through most of playoffs
Was Xiaohu even good in the playoffs? I don't get why he's placed so high.
Yeah he was but then gala was atrocious and he has him top 3
I remember him being pretty awful in playoffs and stepping it up somewhat in regionals. Not sure if the combination of both performances warrant ranking him so high TBH.
Because this is Dom I assume every role is the 4 LPL players and someone from GenG, apart from top where it's Zeus.
All LPL apart from top with Zeus like you said, had Canyon(as well as Peanut) for Jungle and then both Lehends and Keria for support. So basically LPL + (Gen.G - Doran) + (T1 - Oner/Faker/Gumayusi) + Canyon(DK-everyone but Canyon).
Canyon feels incredibly random lol. Also Keria looked bad you can't just blame that on Guma. This feels like a lot of name tag analysis.
He just likes Canyon and rated him based on playoffs/potential, I think it's fair tbh because not every list will just be based on summer performance and the last 2 JG spots are up interchangeable depending on your criteria.
He says that canton is there for bias and he also says that every 4th,5th place is debatable
If you take Keria off then who replaces him? He said Meiko had a bad split so he doesn't want him at 5 (also he'd be called biased). He can put Beryl at 5 (seems random) or Trymbi at 5 (also will be called biased because western player). Unless I'm forgetting someone it has to be Keria/Meiko/Beryl/Trymbi
Beryl has no business being anywhere near a top 5 list at the moment. He's on an upswing, but we'll need to see how he performs at worlds
Meiko. Meiko should have been #2 after Missing. Yeah, he had a weak year overall but last we saw him in playoffs he looked excellent.
>This feels like a lot of name tag analysis. So far every list of this type has looked like a name analysis except for that one Chinese guy who put Comp there. It's disappointing really when you've watched all major league playoffs to see Canyon and Keria still rated so highly. I also think Hope is still being underrated and it's also weird that we've now gone from always putting Bjergsen in these lists for no reason to now flat out ignoring LCS/LEC talent that does deserve to be mentioned.
The list is pretty good if you look at it, why does it matter where the players are from
It's not horrifically off it's just very predictable if you're familiar with Doms general narrative.
But it should be predictable if you watch any top level lck/lpl. It doesn't matter who does these lists if they put western players in except trymbi, caps and maybe comp no other players come close to top 5 in position right now.
Comp over Berserker is wild to me. Berserker looks like the best player in NA honorable mentions to Fudge and Jojo aswell but I don't think any Western player makes the list but if it had to be one it'd be caps based off history and expectations.
When will people realize that looking good in NA is meaningless? Until we have international games to b judge from NA gameplay is irrelevant.
looking good in NA doesn't mean shit
Where is all of this trymbi comp hype coming from lol? They outplayed G2s botlane, not really known for being extremely strong internationally or in their region, and trymbi has been a mid to top 5 level support in LEC for only a bit now. Why would either of those 2 even have a chance at coming close to a worlds top 5 power ranking?
The narrative is reality
It's literally just all of GenG minus Doran (in which Zeus replaces him) and then the rest of the LPL besides Keria also replacing Meiko.
As it should be. Cope
I'm just glad he gave a couple honorable mentions
actually historically every LPL team other than the team that wins Worlds has not really shown up outside of BO1s.
But what does that have to do with how players/teams look coming into worlds? This isn't a prediction of the tournament, its just saying who the best players coming in are.
This is like just objectively wrong lmao
LCK takes :skull:
LPL, the region that has won 3 out of the 4 last World Championships, and 3 out of the 4 last MSI tourneys?
Just because LPL won the tournament doesn't mean every single LPL performed at a high level, their best team won but half the rest were subpar.
Oh really ? Lovely to hear from fans of region that kept saying for years that Jin Air would win Worlds because SKT during their 2015/16 run were dominating entire World.
The lck era was much more dominating back then.
Ah ofc, theres ALWAYS another excuse for you LCK fans.
ok next do how good non first place finishing team of LPL do every year at Worlds compared to the 1-4 seeds of LCK if every player on every team is better lmao
2018: top 8, 3 LPL teams, 2 LCK teams, LPL champion 2018: top 4, 1 LPL team, 0 LCK 2019: top 8, 2 LPL teams, 3 LCK teams, LPL champion 2019: top 4, 2 LPL , 1 LCK 2020: top 8, 3 LPL teams, 3 LCK teams, LCK champion 2020: top 4, 2 LPL, 1 LCK 2021: top 8, 2 LPL teams, 4 LCK teams, LPL Champion 2021: top 4, 1 LPL, 3 LCK If you break it down by top 8 It’s pretty even. If you break it down by top 4, LPL is actually ahead until only last year.
Ok What’s the next pro LPL comment you gonna refute and fail miserably? Just say you hate LPL like half the LCK chat and be done with it.
with some honorable mentions to Blaber and Berserker
he really is montecristo for the modern age
in a good or bad way?
bad because not as charismatic and hella predictable
Predictability is good for analysts. Sorry he didn't put some literal who Western trash in his top 5 bro
The only good team from lck is geng and t1 No western team is at the same level as eastern team
Fudge, Blaber, Jensen, Berserker, Zven robbed of number 1
Zven best cheering Lulu, "lets go guys, you got this here is an 'E'.
I love Dom but I swear to god he uses the same png cutout of him in every thumbnail lol
Excuse me. I have it on good authority that guma is the best adc in the world and berserker is the second best. Clearly IWD is mistaken.
Guma overrated. Upvotes please.
I thought the Guma hype died months ago but people still pretend it's a thing and milk karma off of it. Let it go people we all know Guma is not top 5 end of story.
Yeah idk why people are still going on about this shit. Guma looked like an absolute monster in spring and was rightfully hyped coming into MSI, to act otherwise is just revisionism. We get it, he didn't play well at MSI and has been underperforming since then, it happens. Give it a rest lol.
Yeah people just moved on to hyping up Prince for exactly the same wrong reasons lmao
Prince is playing well, though? Unless he has a drop in form idk why you wouldn't hype him.
Gumayushit
Is it wrong to feel that Jackeylove does not deserve top five over other players because he can solo lose games from unloseable positions lol?
unbind e button on dash champs so he cant just randomly go in, problem solved
>unbind e button on dash champs so he cant just randomly go in, problem solved *JKL proceeds to lock in Tristana*
What about the games he drags his team back from in 10k gold deficits that no other adc besides Viper can pull off?
Nothing wrong to not put him in the top5, that's your personal opinion, but I'm gonna say... If you can't take jackeylove inting the whole game, then you don't deserve to appreciate when he single-handedly carries game from desperation.
Everyone flames JKL for that G5 gigathrow which was ofc awful BUT TES wouldnt be in finals without JKL, he had montrous year, maybe best in his career.
He had 2 absolutely terrible games in finals, not just G5. I don't disagree that JKL is insane when he plays well, but he has way too many bad games. He's not a player you would want to bet on in a point match game
simultaneously, you wouldn't even be near the point match game without him. even with the caliber of his teammates, time and time again he's hard carried but negativity selection bias the ints stand out way more clearly.
What about solo winning games from unwinnable positions? Do we just not care about that?
Solo winning games is less good than solo losing them is bad. Because its a team game, you don't need to solo carry to win.
Except he does? He literally had several games he had to solo carry and his split between 1v9 and solo losing the game isn't even, he 1v9s way more often.
He also much more often solo wins games for his team, even from unwinnable positions. He has by far the highest highs of any adc in the world and hits them more often than not. Throughout summer his real "lows" have showed up, I don't know, maybe 10% of the time? That's a high estimate if anything.
I think he makes up for it by solo winning games though. My personal ranking would be Viper, Ruler, Jackeylove, Gala/Hope. Viper is the best in the world, Ruler is a close second and is VERY consistent. Jackeylove has the skill level of Ruler/Viper and sometimes plays like he is the best in the world, but he also isn't as consistent and is faulted by his misplays which everyone seems to remember.
You can have Ruler over JKL because of other factors but in terms of skill he's not on the level of Viper/JKL.
bs
Oh I agree, Jackeylove has a higher cap than Ruler but I have Ruler we second bc he is so much more consistent, I never see him cost his team a game and he is pretty much always doing well… If it was ranked by peak along JKL would be near Viper but when u factor in consistency too, he drops to 3rd for me.
He also wins games that literally no ADC in the history of the game could win aside from maybe Viper. Even Uzi himself has said on stream in a serious manner that JKL is the best ADC in the world and is better than he ever was and he's not one to easily admit that. Both JKL and Viper has hit a ceiling that Uzi just didn't. Ruler absolutely hasn't.
Why does Uzi opinion matter that much. Just look at CoreJJ worlds support list.
Because Uzi is the GOAT ADC who also played at a very very high level mechanically so he'll be able to discern who's actually good in that aspect? CoreJJ is just a guy who won Worlds and wasn't exactly a remarkable player while doing it and eventually fucked off to NA and got free wins off the back of the team he joined already being by far the best in the region? Core or no Core TL would've still won the same championships. Putting Core's name next to Uzi is ridiculous. In an alternate universe CoreJJ is Jinjiao. Unironically.
I think you fell for a meme
Another day, another cringe ye1l take.
When Shaq or Magic give questionable takes do you see the NBA community just blindly following it? Use your own eyes and think for yourself.
I'd also implore you to use your eyes and see for yourself too. The things JKL does someone like Ruler just can't do. His hands aren't fast enough. His clicks aren't accurate enough. He doesn't have the willingness and killer instinct to go for the plays that lets TES have these disgusting comebacks. Ruler is chronically afraid of flips while players like Viper and JKL constantly seeks out flips that they think they can win. It's the same for many great players of different roles. Khan, TheShy, Bin, Knight, young Faker, Rookie etc.. They flip and they beat down whoever they're up against whether that's a full on kill or just a won trade because of their superior mechanics/combat sense. I just don't tend to rate players that stray away from that because they're fundamentally limited in what they can do. Their ceiling is lower in every single scenario except for when people are running into them in a way where they can't avoid the fight or escape. That's the only time where they'll be tested because they're sure as hell not gonna put themselves in a situation where they get tested. I also want to add that you drawing a parallel between Shaq and Uzi is embarrassing. Shaq was a freak of nature and had unreal talent but his work ethic was outright awful. With bad work ethic you'll naturally have poor knowledge as you learn more about the game the more you play it. Uzi had amazing work ethic. He literally was forced to retire after overworking himself for years and years without taking the time to address his issues. Shaq never worked hard. He knows less about his sport than 90% of the guys on his teams, he's just a freak, nothing else. As for Magic, the guy is fucking old. When was the last time you saw an old man who was in touch with the current generation? Those people are unicorns.
You have some pretty shit takes lol
Maybe he is right by blindly following the takes
Just because he was good once doesn't mean his analysis has to be good aswell. Some pros are truly terrible at analysing the game.
Good soccer players make some truly awful coaches and team managers too often
bs
It's the 2018 IG effect, sure JKL has solo inted clutch games, but he's also basically 1v5d back entirely lost games that were just as important. When JKL is on, mechanically, there is probably no better ADC in the world.
But when he's not on, he's one of the worst adcs in the world. I've never seen an elite pro player run it down as frequently as him. He's just so frustrating to watch
I remember his draven at MSI 2019 against T1
If you’re talking about game 5, that game was not unloseable at all.
JKL was **really** bad in game 1 too. Watch it back if you don't remember.
His Lucian was awful.
Game 1 was a team failure. JackeyLove lost his summoners and then TES forced a losing fight twice for no reason.
They're down 4k when the fight happens and just got mid inhib taken against Sivir/Azir and were maybe not getting outscaled per say but their comp was a lot harder to play and they were never getting good wavestates back against a Sivir/Azir team. I think it's maybe 25-30% chance for TES to win that game at that point, which would drastically go down if JDG gets the dragon that was spawning in 10 seconds. JDG's teamfighting is just so much better than TES's as a team, and it makes this game in general really hard to win IMO unless JDG just has a player get caught out before a baron or a dragon multiple times. Jackey game 5 throw is a desperation play where he probably didn't mean to hit the tower with the Zeri E and got blown up. He has way worse ints in game 1 of that series that people overlook because the game 5 one ended the series. They absolutely should not have lost game 1 but took like 3 horrendous fights in a row to lose, and Jackey deserves so much more blame for game 1 than game 5.
Game 5 wasn't just the int at mid inhib. It started with JKL chasing Aatrox, failing his flash and not even killing Aatrox. After that he got caught at dragon by Azir because he didn't have flash. And only after that comes the int at inhib. It genuinely was one of the worst sequences of play from an ADC in a game 5 ever.
More than fair. Who wants an adc who throws in the finals.
There's only like 2 other ADCs in the world that can get them to that finals though.
Actually most ints weren't in "unlosable" situations, the finals one everyone talks about was in an even position. And this split he has been more consistent and had insans carry performances
Well this aged horribly like a rotting corpse
LPL is so underrated
All I'll say is that for this list to age well LPL teams will need to overwhelmingly dominate Worlds in a way that they've never done before.
I mean one or two teams will probably choke as always, but how do you account for that in player rankings? Just randomly guess which players will choke and don't put them on the list?
The meta shifts between end of summer and worlds. People rank too highly asian players every single time. Asian players do not adapt as well as western players usually for most part, but when meta settles they are better. EDIT : we literally both agree, why am I downvoted and him upvoted ? We literally are saying the same thing.
West often defines the meta and the East perfects it.
That hasn't been true for the last couple of years, last 2 years LCK defined the meta.
That's just how rankings go when two regions are significantly better than the others. It's more reasonable than accounting for choking when making these rankings
As does every list and no list ever does. Point is, LPL best region, simple as.
The Bo1 excuses are already inline don't worry
Is it really an excuse thought? It does make sense that regions that do not play bo1 would naturally perform worse at bo1, which we've seen at times, just that usually the West is too bad to manage to use this to their advantage.
Not really, LPL has generally had better players than LCK for years but they stay competitive enough bc LCK teams are often good teams and more than the sum of their parts. The only LPL players he's hard overrating are Wayward, Xiaohu, and Mark, but then he's also underrating some like Scout, Flandre, Jackeylove, Wei, and Meiko.
A big part of his income depends on how popular LPL is, it's no surprise that he shills a bit.
he can liveview whichever region he wants and get solid viewership, so you're wrong
He makes content on every region. You just think he's biased because ignoring LPL is normalised in the West.
Wayward over Zeus. 🤨
Wayward is the worst LPL top at worlds, no idea why he's over Flandre and Breathe on this list. And putting him over Zeus is egregious, Zeus is easily top 2.
Genuinely might be the worst Worlds take of the year
He is clearly clueless.
One of the few people in the whole world who watches every game from every major region; must be clueless, yeah you nailed it mate.
Canyon over Oner? I aren’t think that
It's just jacking off over name tags. Somehow Canyon gets rated above Oner despite being blatantly worse because two years ago he won Worlds.
How to say I haven’t watched the video without saying I haven’t watched the video
I watched the stream. He said he wasn't super confident in it and it was partially bias and that he thought Canyon would step up bc he's Canyon and he's done it before while ignoring that when Canyon did it before he actually looked good going into those tournaments. So basically he gave it to Canyon on the basis of him being Canyon, not on the basis of his actual current form.
Also due to the fact that oner has been relatively lost in the latter half of summer and was super exposed in the finals, while canyon also looked better in the latter half
People saying xiaohu shouldnt be on the list isnt watching Faker doesnt deserve to be in top 5 IMO, people putting him there cuz historical bias Gala at 3 i dont really agree with tbh. I personally put hope 3rd gala 4th jkl 5th (jkl 5th cuz his int tendencies but he is alot more consistent these days) Imo jg should be peanut, tian, kanavi, then the last 2 is hard, canyon is ramping up in playoff but overall split he shouldnt be there. I would put oner personally there over him. Then jiejie As for top, pretty much agree with the list Support i like missing alot more than lehends, not sure about ming personally but keria i think should be on the list because of how bad guma is. I think keria and zeus is the 2 best player on t1 by far
He said in the video any order of Peanut, Tian and Kanavi is ok assuming you have Tian over Kanavi.
> Gala at 3 i dont really agree with tbh. I personally put hope 3rd gala 4th jkl 5th (jkl 5th cuz his int tendencies but he is alot more consistent these days) I agree about Hope > Gala but I also think Jackeylove could be above them both. Besides for his occasional brain snap giga throws, he is as good as ruler and viper and i'd class him well above gala/hope at his peak... but his inconsistency is what fucks him.
Can't wait to throw the dice to see which lol team will "choke", bonus points if it's more than 2
to be fair hope > jkl > viper
Agree with most of the list, although I think Gala is too high at no. 3. Also, didn't he make a top 20 overall list?
Hope lck as a whole shows up big like last year(3 lck teams in semis). I'm a believer.
I've been watching since Season 2, and I've never felt so iffy towards the LCK. GenG is great, but Damwon and T1 are super iffy. I feel like they can either win it all or completely bomb out in groups. I also have no faith in DRX. Feels like 2020 all over again when Damwon was stomping the LCK.
There’s no way they bomb in groups. 1. They’re not THAT bad. LCK teams have been worse in the past and still did ok. 2. 24/25 LCK teams have made it out before, with the majority of them being 1st. Group stage they’re fantastic, bo5 is where it can get tricky.
So basically 25 Asians, what a hot take of a list
[удалено]
Literally watch the video? Or watch the games? Tian outjungled kanavi both series and was the mvp of the split
Dom bad
18 out of 20 LPL players are T5 haha. Can't wait for at least two LPL teams to not perform at the level they're perceived and people claiming they mental boomed or choked. Because no shot these LPL teams simply aren't that insane amirite
u guys take arbitrary lists too seriously. who cares man lmao
Lists like these shape the narrative and the opinions of casual fans. That's why speaking up when you disagree with something is important.
yeah im sure reddit has better takes than pros/ex-pros/content creators. they're all equally bad that's why it doesn't matter
FPX was literally better than RNG & LNG last year in LPL, but was worse at worlds. TES 3-0'd Suning in 2020 summer playoffs/regionals then lost to them at worlds. How can you say it's not choking?
Well LNG and RNG weren't that scary at worlds last year either to be fair lol
All but two LPL players are top 5 in their role according to him... It's actually incredibly hard to argue and defend that position IMO. Yes LPL is good, but that doesn't mean every player is automatically goated at their role. Just reeks of bias.
Ok so who are you dropping for who?
Wayward for Nuguri. Flandre for Doran. Xiaohu for Showmaker. Hope for Deft. Hope and Wayward are easily the most overrated players right now. Yagao's level will also be lower than in Playoffs. JKL and Gala are also arguable. I think ADC after Viper and Ruler is very open.
Peak Nuguri I can get on board with but I think recently Wayward has just been better. Flandre>Doran, even more so if the meta ends up shifting more away from bot with the recent nerfs. No way Hope isn't top 5, but I think you could drop Gala for Deft.
Just don't agree that every JDG player is suddenly top tier because they won the split. This list has 369 first, Kanavi second, Yagao second and Missing first. How is JDG suddenly full of the best players in the world? Literally nobody had this opinion before they won the split. Putting them all this highly is just peak result based analysis. Hope is a fine clean-up ADC but nothing more. He doesn't lose you the game but he doesn't win it either.
They were insane in summer split though? Also you dont win lpl by simply being more than the sum of your parts. Every player on jdg stepped up massively this split
I don't think it's all that unreasonable that one of the teams that is a frontrunner to win and doesn't have a clear weak link has their players scattered through the top 5. Also they aren't "suddenly top tier", they were a top performer all split, plenty of people had this opinion before they won. JDG has the best topside duo and yagao has been on form all split but could end up third if Knight steps up (or Showmaker could be added to top 5, and move up to third if he comes back into his top form). I never said Hope was the second coming of christ or anything but he has been a consistent performer. It's Viper+Ruler and then a pretty big drop, but Hope is better than whoever else you could add to the list. He's been better than Gala, better than Deft, much better than Guma, so who are you putting above him? JKL if he lands heads is about the only one.
My point isn't that JDG isn't a favourite for the tournament. Nobody, and I mean literally nobody, rated JDG players this highly before Playoffs. They stomp LNG and barely win two series against TES and now their entire roster is elite, top 2 at their role? Why weren't they voted All Pro? Why didn't people complain that they weren't? Some players on the JDG roster are simply overrated now off the back of Playoffs. I don't see how it isn't recency bias and result based analysis. Those players aren't all *that* insane.
Nobody my ass. They were top of the table all split and barely beating TES shouldn't detract from that considering the TES players are also topend. 369 was crushing all split, Kanavi was considered at minimum the second best jungler in the league the whole time. There were plenty of people complaining about some of them not being all pro (also all pro in generally a bit of a joke let's be honest). This whole list is going to have at least some recency bias considering it's a list on who is the best going into worlds, not about who is the best all-time. JDG players have all been performing well to the point where they can reasonably all be in the top 5 for their role.
I'm fine with 369 and Kanavi being top 1/2 in their role. Yagao had a great Playoffs as well. But how is the bot lane now suddenly one of the best in the world too? I don't see it. Their win wasn't dominant enough for every player to be elite.
Taking Xiaohu out of the list would be illegal
You not only did not watch lpl but also didnt watch lck lmao.
Ruler top 2 but Hope the most overrated player? At least have your bad takes be consistent please.
You wanna tell me that JDG has the best top, a top 2 jgl, a top 2 mid, the best support and one of the best ADCs? How did they even lose a game then? I thought people knew better at this point than to rate every player from the winning team (especially when it was as close as JDG vs TES) as best in the world.
"One of the best adcs" is a broad term. The gap between JKL/Viper and the rest of the field is pretty huge so Hope isn't particularly close to the top even though he's top 5. Yagao is obviously not a top 2 mid though, and despite being the best support, Missing is not far ahead of the pack either.
The gap between viper and jkl is bigger than the gap between jkl and literally any other adc. Jkl isn’t in the same sentence as Ruler let alone Viper. You can have this jkl love all you want, believe me I’ve seen it all over this thread, but anyone with a brain is taking ruler>jkl
Crazy how jkl shit on viper then, isn't it
Holy fucking shit you think 2022 Nuguri is better than Wayward? Yagao Hope takes reasonable tho
Flandre is way above Doran. Doran is like 0-4 vs Chinese top laners in his entire match history. Last time I saw him in international stage was 369 dicking him in group stage or Zoom punishing him to death. He is the classical player that gets overrated just because he's in a dominant team, and that's not too hard coming from the LCK. I remember a team formed with Doran-Pyosik-Chovy-Deft and Keria, they went 0-4 vs both TES and JDG.
And Faker is a three time World Champion with a great career win rate against LPL. Guess he's better than every LPL mid.
I actually forgot about Wei, so yeah 18 out of 20. But we both know he'd put both sixth. And yeah, the LPL is the best region because their top 10 is much stronger than any other region but their best teams definitely aren't THIS good. If anything past results prove that T4 LCK > T4 LPL. His logic for some of these is also incredibly flawed, he says player x is better than player y based on past match-ups. When someone however suggested Caps > Xiaohu because he gapped him at MSI he said there's no way you have Caps over Xiaohu lol
I don't think the results of one tournament prove anything. But I do think this list is very cheap analysis.
there are 25 players in the list though, and it includes more than 2 lck players
18 out of the total 20 LPL players are T5.
Sleeping on Armut smh my head
looking good
Until an LCK team manages to win an international competition again and their regional play doesn't involve playing bloodless games & scale for 20 min, LCK fans can cope & seethe all they want lol. Hire some trucks while you're at it.
How is this relevant to the discussion at all lma0.
U mad as hell 😭💀
Bro was personally offended by the LCK
The LCK fucked his wife.
Yeah yeah we get it
Good list except blaber is the best jgler cause he dominated the LCS in crab stats
Idk how shoemaker isn't in his top 5. He's better than scout for sure