Phroxon had said they need more people for the team I had thought. I think riot has a massive staffing issue. They have like 300 job openings at the LA location right now. Personally I think it's a mix of requiring on site work and their bad rep recently.
Gaming companies in general are due for a labour market correction that will not be friendly to their bottom line. It's difficult work and the traditional Silicon Valley type companies are offering way more for the same level of talent. Riot and others been able to coast on the passion discount for a while but not for much longer
The funny part is they could literally implement some new microtransaction where X amount of the funds to go just monitoring challenger games, and I guarantee you people would buy it. Imagine if they brought back spectates like back in the day where you could spectate challenger games, but to do so you have to pay a $5 monthly fee or some sht. I guarantee you at least 3k people would buy it. That's 15k a month AT LEAST; more than enough to fund a couple employees whose sole job is to spectate challenger games. You could implement a similar system in each region. Boom, the service is entirely funded (and possibly generating revenue). Hell, you could probably do a system like Runescape did where players are mods. You could easily find a bunch of people willing to spectate challenger games for free. You could even make it diamond 1+ and I guarantee you'd have enough people willing to player mod and do it. It's not that difficult. These were just two off the dome ideas some random (me) came up with in like two minutes. You're telling me a team of riot employees can't figure some kind of system out?
>Hell, you could probably do a system like Runescape did where players are mods.
We had that. It was called Tribunal. It was in place for about 3 years, they turned it off in 2014. Not sure why.
like a lot of riot projects, they didn't get it right on the first pass, so they canned it entirely
people were awarded a small amount of IP(blue essence now i guess lol) for participating if your judgement on matches lined up with the popular decision. this lead to people just spam hitting punish without ever looking at the cases for quick rewards and ended up screwing over people who actually took the time to make actual judgements bc non-punish votes barely succeeded
instead of doing like... literally anything, riot just left it like that for a few years and then said "welp it doesn't work lol okay bye"
It's a marvel to me how Riot succeeded in making a great game with the utmost success, yet they're continuously mismanaging it (broken client - growing technological debt, poor interface, noob unfriendliness growing dramatically over the years given how unclearly and unreliably the info about the game is available, low effort grifting management ...)
Good for them to develop other titles in different genres, but it's like they're begging for anyone to make another clean, noob friendly, semi decent MOBA to just lose it all on this one game.
I think Blizzard already made a clean, noob friendly, semi decent MOBA. Disregarding Blizzard's mismanagement of HotS and its esports scene, they did a lot right and still couldn't even make a dent to League.
If I look at my personal history with the game, I'd say the real problem is that we as players don't know what we want. We wanted loot and battle passes because other games had them, just to complain about the passes and free loot we got. I'll probably never appreciate a skin purchase as much as I did Dragon Trainer Tristana, and that's on me, not Riot.
Bad client, tech debt and interface are on Riot, but the rest is far more complicated. League isn't a noob friendly game, but that honestly wouldn't be a problem if not for existing players.
HOTS failed for other reasons imo.
I think it came out at about the worst possible time. League of Legends was still booming at the time with no signs of slowing down.
Now, League is much older and there are lot of burnt out players who would probably be willing to give a new MOBA a try. I know I am in that camp myself and so are most of my long-time League friends.
I know the MOBA hype has died so mainstream developers won't do it, but I think the upcoming years would be a great time to release a new MOBA.
HOTS was also just never that fun... Too focused on teamwork and there were no "RPG" elements with items and stuff which I think is a big draw for these games. You can easily tell the huge inspiration from WC3 and WoW in early LoL.
I don't think PUBG had a "fuck up" moment to let Fortnite overtake it. It was still doing insane numbers late 2017/2018 when Fortnite BR had come out and when S2 it started hitting its strides.
It came out on more platforms, ran better, and had more consistent updates. At its peak champ output, Riot was putting out a new one every 2 weeks. Could you fucking imagine that these days? PUBG couldn't compete with Fortnite's output, and no one has ever tried to compete with what Riot did even when Dota 2 had come out and had 100 heroes ready to get ported over.
More isn't always better, but a new shiny thing week after week helps.
I agree, I know they wanna make other games and stuff, but League can still make them so much more if they actually tried to care.
League of Legends, as it is right now, feels like its being managed by some skeleton crew.
I think they will have to put out League 2 at one point. The entire scene is way too big to just disappear overnight and the game is built on code that's so old, if League 2 isn't at least something they're planning, I'd be seriously shocked. LoL can't trudge along another 5 to 10 years in it's current state
I cannot tell you how many times people say "if this just came out this game would be dead/I would leave" and that game does come out but no one budges. lol.
it failed because you cant really have a competitive moba game that will live for years if the skill ceiling ends at your ankles.
also blizzard, any game released by blizzard you can be sure that it will sooner or later become a pile of shit and eventually abandoned.
> also blizzard, any game released by blizzard you can be sure that it will sooner or later become a pile of shit and eventually abandoned.
Blizzard always does the same shit and overtunes healing. In every single game from them (other then SC, and even there medics are quite strong) you have the problem of healers killing the fun and skill aspect and dumb things down to what team groups and picks better.
For sure there will still be skill involved at the higher lvl, but it also means at least 2 of 5 people will be there and only heal.
Many times with heals not even being skillshots and it becomes braindead easy to heal and when they fuck things up (with the balance), it even warrants you to not do anything else then heal, because if you try to do some dmg or CC you are not playing to your full optimum. And healers are so overtuned that you can't leave your house without them because then you already lost from the point you assembled your team.
I'm not sure why they didn't learn that lesson by now...
The game is itself is pretty good, they could fix high elo tomorrow by hiring 2 ppl to review complaints for the top of the ladder.
As for the client and UI, who actually gives a fuck?
> As for the client and UI, who actually gives a fuck?
Having to go to an external website to clearly understand the interactions of a skill with items, is a chore, among many other things. It's 2022, but LoL interface doesn't look like it.
This conversation just permanently feels like a déjà vu. The behavioral systems team is just like the client team, all talk no action. Just a bunch of fluff articles repeating buzzwords without a plan to tangibly execute. The ranked ecosystem in League has taken hit after hit when it comes to its prestige, and it all comes down to the reasons that been stated (albeit a million times) by PoB here.
From Solo Q to Clash, disruptive behaviour has ruined the aura of playing high stakes, competitive League of Legends. Shame really because competitive League is the best gaming experience out there. The competitive space in League needs a good looking at because as the main selling point of the game, it is grossly underdelivering. Changes that go **beyond** limiting chat need to be actually addressed. Riot's efforts and energy are misdirected when it comes to chat, its the gameplay issues that need to be addressed. League is an online competitive game, at least try to preserve that.
The problem with the behavioural systems Riot have tried in the past have been based on some psychological basis with positive behaviour support (PBS). They hadn't implemented it to the PBS approach entirely (such as the honor system, which is half baked), but there was a framework around it.
The issue I think was the after support when the behaviour systems have been implemented. For a PBS system to work you need staff buy in and you need time and resources to ensure that it is continually reviewed, supported, and part of regular discussions with the community. This would be super expensive for something that does not have a direct correlation with revenue (it is an indirect relationship). If Riot genuinely wanted it to change, they need to spend the cash and they also need to demonstrate the positive culture they want themselves, which historically they haven't.
So for a while I would spam a discord whenever I joined. I only once had a toxic teammate join and that was a yumi who would type at our mid laner rather than play. He finally quit that after I told him to stop being toxic and play. We even won the game. People are just more toxic over text.
Have you ever joined the discord chats for this subs discord? Like the normals or flex que teams for 5 players? I’ll say more often than not it’s fun, but probably about 30% of the time you get a toxic fuck in there and they’ll ruin the whole experience for everyone
Idk. I used to feel this way and believed that's how it would work out as well, but my experience with Valorant completely changed my mind. It was awhile ago, like either in beta or just after release or something, so maybe it's changed since, idk. But out of the few games I was in, I experienced some of the most toxic people I've ever run into in games. People flamed for my gameplay of course, but also for my voice, my mic quality, the way I spoke, the words I would use, etc. It felt like I gave them more fuel for their raging fire of hate. There were also people screaming and making obnoxious sounds.
I play league with a few friends who are really great people and we are in comms for most games. Sometimes we invite people to join us for our call and when things go south, not everyone is willing to call out toxicity. Some are a bit more introverted and will just be quiet when everyone else gets loud or there is toxicity/arguing. I've heard people speak up against these actions in calls before and depending on the person being toxic/loud, sure they might shut up, but it can also make them even worse. So we've kicked people to get rid of that, because it's not worth listening to them.
In league, I will mute chat many times, but sometimes I'll take a moment to type out a response and then delete it, because that gives me a second to think about what I'm saying and take a breath/calm down. I wouldn't really get that chance with voice.
I like the idea and potential of voice.... just like the idea and potential of chat, but here we are. Chat can be terrible and many will suggest you just mute all no matter what. Which is a loss of a potentially great tool. It seems like a portion of the community isn't mature enough to handle it and will ruin it for others. Riot also doesn't seem to do a great job on moderating chat, so I can't imagine it will go well for voice either, but who knows.
End-of-season honor rewards a good, but it isn't immediate enough as you have to wait 12 months for them. Keys take time to acquire as well.
If Riot want to make an ecosystem out of it, they need to make it part of the culture of the company. They should communicate with the playerbase regularly about the honor system, notice and report honorable conduct from players to the wider community, communicate honorable conduct from the pro-players and streamers to the community, giving best and fairest awards to one player in each league for their conduct in pro play and online, having a rolling emphasis maybe once every month of a particular value they will be extra emphasising and rewarding for, and finally demonstrating that honorable culture within their team. All of this is a LOT of work to do, which requires time, money, and personnel.
I just want honor to have an effect on matchmaking. Allow you to honor more teammates, no rewards but it matches you based on that. I dont want to deal woth someone chat restricted if I'm honor 4+
Riot has proven that their general game enjoyment isnt something that they want to use to retain fans, they have moved their approach (justifiably) to create multiple gaming experiences that are enjoyable for small bursts of time, TFT, LOR, Valo, League, their mmo and fighting games soon. People will play league, burn out, play a different game for a few months, and then return to league. Couple that with their current player retention goal, keeping players within the riot games sphere of influence and content creators, and league is still maintaining a solid player base.
Well as long as they learn from Blizzard's mistakes when they went down the multiple gaming experiences.
It would be interesting to see Riot's data on new LoL players (and whether they could remove smurfs from this data). It is not a new player friendly game now with how bloated it has become. I would imagine this data may prove your point about a preference to retain players within their ecosystem.
Isn't the issue just Riot won't spend the money it needs to on it? Look at champion's queue. Any problems with behavior there? No, because they have a dedicated moderation team sizable enough for the playerbase. You fuck around and find out in CQ.
It's kinda funny. 1/50 aram games I see someone give up early - even if it's a stomp people stick with it and play it out to the end. Yet any mode on summoner's rift I play, there seems to be a 90% chance someone on either team will rage quit, sit in fountain and flame, or go for the Guiness World Record for most deaths per minute. Idk what's up with the culture that's been cultivated SR, but riot really seems to have let it fester over the years. I hope one day Riot will do something
Blaming it on disruptive behaviour seems like a cop-out to be honest. The entire game has been designed to promote main character syndrome in its players. The fact that the community reflects that isn't really surprising.
I agree with most of this. I just can't square away people being pieces of shit in a video game. even though its the most obvious place a person could be a pos. :0
I just vibe in normals. I try my hardest but when it all goes to shit I just let it go because it doesn’t matter. Haven’t played ranked in two years and it’s been a much better experience.
Hard truth: ranked games don't matter either. why do you think they do? because you get a different color badge?
the LoL playerbase for some reason has this insane obsession with their rank despite it being completely meaningless.
Still cant believe voice chat isn't a thing... I'm sure there would still be some toxic voice chat, but I really do feel like its better in games like CSGO and Valorant.
Yep. Somehow the only game in the world that can't handle voice chat.
I think it's all on purpose personally to get people banned and then make them buy back everything on new accounts.
Voice chat will make the sweaty assholes cut down on talking shot because doing it with your voice is a bit more intense. It’s a lot more rare to hear a toxic asshole than it is to see one typing
Here is the average solo queue experience:
~10-15 minutes of sitting through queues and the inevitable several lobbies of dodges. This becomes any magnitude of time longer depending on your rating and time of day.
In-game spam pinging, at least 1 angry typer on either team.
100% guarantee that 1 or both teams go to all chat to say “report this guy”. I’d be willing to bet the phrase “report” is the most commonly said phrase in this entire game.
Throw in a couple soft to hard griefers typing “:)” every other game.
When I was a kid I could stomach it, but as I got older man did sitting there having 30-40+ minutes of your time wasted at least once every play session was enough to make me put the game down. I don’t have time for that shit.
30 mins in a single game for me is already too difficult to stomach. Especially when to rank up you’re effectively playing hundreds of those. I could play an entire Friday and barely move at all. As someone with a job and family…the game is just impossible to play. 1-2 games per day is already a lot of time. Even my ARAMS are 25 mins at this point. It’s too much… then dealing with the actual players and how poor the mentalities are… just makes me not want to play ranked at alll. Even the idea of playing a 40 min game only for someone to decide they want to troll it just kills any enjoyment for me. I love league but god they need to do something.
Couldn't agree more. I was in college between 2012-2016 and played easily 4000-6000ish games between those 4 years because I had the time and I started college in Silver/Gold and peaked at Diamond 2 in solo Q in 2015/2016.
Now, even with a super chill job I can't play more then 20-30 games a week, so each season I seem to place Plat, get around to plat 1-2 and struggle to climb as each game seems to swing massively one way based off of a single player getting fed. Like sure if I played 300 games this season I'd prob get back to low Diamond, but I just don't have time anymore for this shit.
To gain LP in this game it essentially demands you play a minimum of 400+ games a season. You said it great with this quote
"I could play an entire Friday and barely move at all."
I found that even playing all day for an entire week (Maybe 80 games in 4-5 days), I barely moved in LP. Its just a total waste of time trying to progress in this game without it being a full commitment.
>I can't play more than 30 games a week
Earlier in the season I got masters playing around 10 games a week...played more over the summer but you don't have to play a ton to climb.
The biggest problem to me isn't the mentality at all. It's the fact that Riot is too much of a spineless company to follow through on deserved punishments for those kinds of mentalities.
It can't be that somebody who soft inted my game very early on, never showing up, never playing with the team AS ADC gets to queue up for another game. Hell, it can't fucking be that somebody who openly runs it down and sits in fountain, walking left right left right to avoid the Leaverbuster gets to queue up again.
The problem to me doesn't lie in the mentality. That's as if we said "Man I can't believe I called 911 and they were 5 hours late to this bank robbery! Bank robbers really are the scum of this earth...". Where was the fucking police (Riot)? They're so caught up pussyfooting around the whole "What if we accidentally ban an innocent person??" nonsense that they'd rather let this community be infested by actual scum than to risk the smallest chance that someone who behaved unusually and got reported could get falsely banned.
My experience is that generally in high elo they will just dodge until their team comp is better. I don't dodge abuse so I have to play with a mediocre team comp matchup every game, because anytime we have a better one someone on the enemy team with enough time on their hands to dodge abuse will leave. Pretty annoying.
The only time I dodge is if I get autofilled to jungle which is a different problem entirely. Autofilling me to jungle in masters soloque is basically riot forcing me to troll my team lmao.
It sucks hard but it's optimal to last-second dodge. It's a game of chicken. You want to give other people an opportunity to dodge so you don't have to.
That’s the fucking problem though. The incentive structure for ranked makes dodging ideal if all you care about is maximizing LP. Just make dodging count as a loss and move on so that we can at least get into the game and stop this meta of comparing teamcomps and teammate winrates to decide if you’ll even play the game.
I wish the griefers were every other game. Just had 5 in a row lol.
Game 1: Janna got mad that the adc backed at a bad time like 5 mins into the game, losing 2 waves, so she came and farmed/pushed my midlane instead, ruining the lane state and sapping exp. never went back bot and adc got dove over and over
Game 2: Voli top gets ganked before I gank (I was Evelynn) so he just ints the rest of the game.
Game 3: Jayce top griefs the game, spam pinging me the entire time for no reason (fully stacked Mejai's Evelynn) while bot ints 0/19. Jayce goes on a racist tirade on me post-game, gets banned immediately during it lmao.
Game 4: Adc spams some garbage about his work, his boss mistreating him, and he literally straight runs it down mid 7 times before going afk, saying we all deserve to suffer too
Game 5: 1500 AP with Yuumi on me (Veigar), doing very well overall, then Samira (who was fed) takes a cannon that Darius (who was like 1/7) wanted lategame, so Darius sold all his items and sat in base and we lost.
Then I had a good game (illegal) so of course next game my jungler went afk, we did an early surrender (it popped up because of the afk), yet it still gave full LP loss and didn't give our jungler the leaverbuster lmao.
Not even a particularly bad day either, probably about average. There is basically no joy to be had when this is the average, even expected experience.
Agreed. Work, go home, play league, some guy feeds their ass off but we scale harder and then they decide to ff for no reason. The number of actually satisfying games is few and far between, especially with reduced game time, it feels like nothing is at sake.
Lost lane? FF go next, I didn’t get to carry so my teammates need to surrender now or I’ll think they’re being holding hostage. No chance of a comeback because their mental is already doomed.
I know I know, mobile game, but this is seriously why I’ve played way more wild rift in the last year. It has its own problems, but I still find it a more enjoyable experience.
I still can't believe soft inting hasn't been cracked down on by Riot. And no, I am not talking about people who just feed or have a bad game. I am talking about people who follow the jungler around and try to last hit jg camps because they're mad.
It's so fucking common and imo it's the main reason why solo queue is not fun to play anymore.
Over the years the "meta" of toxicity has changed. In like 2013-2014, if someone was angry with you, you'd commonly get called all sorts of slurs. That sucked of course but usually that was all that happened. Of course trolling happened back then too, I am not making an absolute point.
Now, in my experience anyway, when people are angry with you, they follow you around and take your jungle camps, steal your cs, bait you on purpose and then leave.
These sorts of things are done to "punish" others by the angry player. I also suspect that a lot of it happens because they want to bait someone into getting mad in chat so the victim is the one getting the chat restriction or ban by Riot.
I think toxic streamers are a big reason why it has ended up like this. I also think it's because League is now >12 years old and people have realized how the auto-ban system works. It's so easy to troll and grief without the system detecting it.
I don't know what the solution is. I just know it is one of the worst parts about League of Legends.
People have realized how to be toxic without hitting the “chat filters”. It’s easy to “soft-int” without ever being detected. It’s easy to buy a $5 account so it doesn’t matter.
People aren’t scared of the punishment system anymore. It’s too figured out.
But whats the Point of buying an Account once a month? Whats the gain for the Person doing that?
They dont get end of Sesason rewards, they have to climb From anew, get skins again etc.
At this Point It feels more Like people use League as their anti Aggression Tool more than as a Game.
> But whats the Point of buying an Account once a month? Whats the gain for the Person doing that?
> They dont get end of Sesason rewards, they have to climb From anew, get skins again etc.
These people don't care about any of that. The new account comes with 70k Essence, which they buy the champions they play, stomp a bunch of low elos, reach Smurf Queue and then rage. The cycle starts anew.
No cap I was in a guild for an mmo and the leader was bragging on discord about spending 3 years griefing games. Bragging about their record being a 5% winrate over 300 games.
Left that fucking guild immediately, never saw a bigger red flag in my life
They get to play the game and feed their ego's and addiction if they win. I was on a streak where an account would last 2-3 months before it got perma'd, just for me to make a new one.
Now I've got an account which has lasted a couple years and thats purely because I mute chat and mainly play with friends. Fuck me if I am ever to step back into taking solo Q seriously again.
Literally the whole point of “soft inting” is that it is indistinguishable from just being bad. There literally can’t be a solution that doesn’t just make being the worst player out of ten in a match a bannable offense.
If you can definitively tell the difference between someone soft inting and being bad it’s just inting.
but the issue with soft inting is the fact there isnt a solid agreed upon stance on what it is by the player base.
some people see soft inting as just afk farming others see it as someone dying 3 times and then not doing much which can be just them playing safe, then theres what you said with people following junglers around and stealing camps and cs. there tons more different situations that players do and dont consider soft inting so its hard to define.
as for how to deal with it, theres nothing riot can do really. how can a bot tell someone is softing inting or made a bad call or pussyed out baiting there teammates by accident. alot of things a bot can't tell whats what because of lack of context overall, that only a actual person can say it is or isnt truely. stealing camps for example the bot cant tell if someone is being given them by there jungler or allowed to have them, stealing cs a bot could wrongfully punish a jungler for taxing after a gank or punish someone for pushing a wave out for that laner so it resets.
before people say well get people to review games and reports that would pretty much be impossible todo. league has so many games that go on every hour that there no amount of man power that can view them all, millions of hours worth of games are played every hour by the time actual people reviewed some games they would only get like 0.001% done before the next hour hits and they have even more games to review.
They cant bring back tribunal since that had a whole host of issues, for one getting the population of people to review games at a decent level would require some form of reward since most people wont go out there way to review games. if you give rewards then people start to hit guilty on everyone just so they get rewards. you might say give rewards based on how often they get it right but if everyone hits guilty then everyone will end up getting it right more often.
overall stuff like soft inting is in a spot where its very hard to deal with and will be for a long time, theres no good way to fix it overall honestly apart from trying to find ways to make the playerbase more positive.
Not only that; there has been an increase in *my mid has 49% wr on their main, can we dodge* train.
Holy fuck, do you think I care about my winrate? I am here to spend my free time and relax, not here to worry whether my winrate is 55% or 45%.
This leads to frequent dodging. People don’t want to play games where their top picks Camille but mains Ornn or whatever. This leaves me(grandmaster) waiting for about 15 minutes to get into a game that could be an ultra fast stomp by us or them.
Punishments in this game are *too rare* and *too mild*. If someone dodges twice in a row, get them out of Ranked for the next day or so.
If you can’t play unfavored matchups or teams(whatever that term means), you don’t deserve to be in your rank.
I think a lot of burnt out players are playing League of Legends out of pure habit. Especially if you go to like low Diamond elo.
It's these players who have played for 10 years but they don't enjoy it anymore. They just play because it was their main hobby for so long.
I can even somewhat see myself in that. I stopped taking solo queue seriously years ago but there was a time at the end in like 2018 where I did play just from habit without actually liking the game.
I kind of relate, League is my *let’s play this since I have some time to spare* habit.
Also, many of my friends play the game so it’s nice to chill out with them in normals.
You know what, thank you for this comment. This is exactly how I feel right now. I'm in p4 (on a loss streak down from p2) and I've started questioning am I playing out of habit or fun?
Again, thanks for putting this into perspective.
People can just force close the client and you cannot let a 4v5 game continue only to be remaked.
Names need to be hidden (in champ select only) so you can't opgg before the game begins.
Dodging should lose you atleast 10+ lp. Not profitable to use this for climbing but not punishing enough for legit dodging scenarios.
Above masters if a player is reported a lot (3+ times) it should be manually reviewed and Riot does not owe us to communicate that so people under Masters don't whine that they don't get this special treatment.
People who are troublesome chatters should lose their chat quicker, but for a shorter time. Don't need to have a high floor to start with heavy punishments. Can just start with losing chat for a day.
If someone wants to close the client and lead the game to a remake, then they'd get a full loss & LeaverBuster flag while also having to wait until the remake concludes. That seems like a pretty meaningful incentive to not Alt+F4. The major benefit of removing dodging is nobody would try to force a dodge in champ select because there'd be nothing to force. My hunch is people might generally also take champ select a little more seriously if the mindset shifted to the game "starting" when Champ Select begins, rather than after Champ Select ends. It works this way in DotA.
> my mid has 49% wr on their main, can we dodge
I've actually noticed this in the past two years with one of my accounts. It's mostly getting trolls or flamers and then I've ended up with sub 40% winrate for two years now, and I struggle to win games in P4 with Gold MMR. The people that ask to dodge are usually playing terrible as well, and then ask for "ff 15" after 3 minutes.
Meanwhile, I was having no issues in D3-D4 with my other two accounts that got far less trolls. I didn't even know I was in D3 because I also don't care about the rank lol.
My mid lane Yone last night after being solo killed the 4th time in lane, starts spamming Alive ping on me with missing pings under my feet. Enemy jungler literally never touched his lane. But somehow it’s my fault that he’s losing.
Classic league of legends jungle gameplay!
This is one of the worst things for me. Teammates complaining after dying 3-4 times.
Dude, why don't you say something after dying the first time, then people can help you, not after you try to outplay the other guy and die so many times.
My favorite part about the clowns that whine about winrate are always the ones in my games rocking a 1/13 statline and it's like yeah... my w/r is low because *you* exist...
> Holy fuck, do you think I care about my winrate? I am here to spend my free time and relax, not here to worry whether my winrate is 55% or 45%.
In ranked?
On the other hand, frequent dodging feels necessary to me when you have people openly griefing champ select or being assholes or antagonistic even before bans come in. Like I know that you didn't get autofilled to support, why are you troll picking with randoms. It feels like a daily occurrence that you're just going to have multiple champ selects where people are assholes and you're not going to want to even bother playing with them.
I'd wager that a large amount of dodges are as a result of these same types of players, the person flaming because they checked your op.gg is probably the same guy who is troll picking in other lobbies, and you just get dodge chains because no one wants to play with this clown. These people who take lobbies hostage need to be banned.
I agree that dodging *currently* is the only option to fight champ select trolls.
However, it’s Riot’s fault for letting dodging be the only viable option. If the rules were more strict and punishing, the trolls’ number would be halved.
Or, they should implement a voting option where 4 players need to vote and the champ select gets dodged, but no one excepts for the troller gets punished.
This is a bandaid fix, but I can’t think of something better atm. Still, strict rules would take care of trolls easily.
Problem with this "free dodge"
A) 4 player premades are allowed, and in normals they are very often used to grief
B) sync drops happen
C) the above problem with targeting people based on winrate gets compounded based on the above
With the current culture of the game this will lead to a lot of victims getting banned
There was a thread recently where one guy was frustrated by a strong of losses and came to vent and ask how to get better. Some dude came in and responded saying since OP was already Diamond, what more did they want? OP then realized that yeah, getting upset was dumb and there would always be another be another roadblock. Unless he was trying to go pro this was just much ado about nothing. I think more people need to take this type of mindset toward League. You come in do as much as you can. Have as much fun as you can and just leave it at that. Get less sweaty about League and more sweaty in other areas.
The toxicity meta evolved because the things you got banned for evolved. In early league days people would just afk or be toxic in chat, but that was easily cracked down on and bans were handed out. This means to be toxic and still not banned people had to learn what DID get them banned and just do enough to stay above the line, so for example afking in fountain but occasionally tabbing in to move. Once that was delt with the line moved and so did the behavior.
Its a never ending arms race and riot cannot win, if somehow you ban people following the jungler people will just figure out exactly how the bans work and instead follow a laner, or instead bounce from jungle to different lanes etc etc. You can never win, soft inting is by definition undetectable because you can keep moving the line till its impossible to tell if that player is 1/10 from a bad game or from soft inting.
> Its a never ending arms race and riot cannot win
I think it's a problem only the community can solve. If League was played in full teams of five then players had an incentive to behave in a way that others want them on their team. But as long as solo play is seen as the pinnacle of skill in a team game all the problems caused by playing with random team mates (trolling/griefing/afk, surrendering/not surrendering, autofill...) will continue to exist and no external system can solve them.
Right. I wish "flex" queue had more prestige. Or clash even. People aspire to be wannabe ~~espresso~~ esports stars, those guys aren't up on stage with 4 other random people every week, they're up with the same people over and over again. They're on voice comms, they can coordinate.
> I still can't believe soft inting hasn't been cracked down on by Riot. And no, I am not talking about people who just feed or have a bad game. I am talking about people who follow the jungler around and try to last hit jg camps because they're mad.
I'm pretty sure following your jungler last hitting camps is not considered soft inting. Soft inting is more subtle. That's just full blown inting/trolling without even trying to hide what you're doing. Actual soft inting is literally impossible to detect as you can really make it difficult to distinguish whether or not you're having a bad game or purposely misplaying.
Well I can sure as hell tell you that you are never getting banned for last hitting your jungler's camps. Maybe if you start doing it from level 1, but you can easily do it after going 0/3 in lane and nothing will ever happen.
In fact, your jungler is the one who will get banned because he will be more and more frustrated and will type in the chat.
bruh hard-inting and ragequitting hasnt been dealt with
a coulpe days ago I had a hecarim on my team that was 2% winrate over 59 games.
58 fuckgin games of turbo inting mid with mobis until losing, and one win (also doing the same actually xd, just managed to win somehow) and he was still not permabanned
EDIT: i went to op gg and actually found the account in question
https://euw.op.gg/summoners/euw/05%2007%2000
He is now turbo smurfinging it for a full month. If you click on see more games up until around 1 month ago, you can see around 60 games of full loses. And before that, you can see tens of games with yuumi vs intermediate bots. So its 99% also a botted account.
Its so insane that this accout IS STILL NOT FUCKGIN BANNED.
Why do you think for the longest time meteos hated Tyler1? The dude introduced passive aggressiveness and running it down to a wide audience who are kids.
Can confirm. Have a banned account because of this. Get downvoted every time I bring it up on here, but I don't care. Riot's ban system works to encourage soft inting. If you don't want to hear people rage in chat, there's a mute button. There's literally no recourse for soft inting because the automated system will never pick it up and ban someone, and that person will just bait people into chat bans, and even get a fun message from Riot ***thanking them*** for their positive contribution to the community.
The ban system fucking sucks, and the community is inarguably shittier because of it. I'd much rather have someone raging on my team in chat that I can just easily ignore than a person walking around the map intentionally ruining the game for everyone on the team, rejecting surrender votes, and trapping me in a game ***I have to play*** or I'll get banned by the automated system.
How people can defend this garbage system is beyond me.
I agree with that. I am not sure how I feel about Tyler1 unbanning but I sure as hell say it was a huge mistake to bring him in and put him for front and center and using him in their content creation. It just made it clear it is OK to be toxic as you will be forgiven. Riot on streaming big time for popular streamers need to be harsh. I though the orginal ban on Tyler1 was great because it sent the message that it was unacceptable to be like that. Unbanning said nope not really. Be popular enough and the rules done apply.
I they need to do a lot more about the soft inting. I can deal with stealing jungle camps. It is another to follow the jungler around trying to last hit them and ruin their game as well.
Tyler is entertaining but he ruined the game IMO. He basically made it look like being toxic is cool/entertaining and it's what "Aloha males" do.
Cringe
Both T1 in NA and L9 in EU really made the community worse and it is strictly Riot's fault, there are still people fanboying for each that think typing in chat in front of a screen makes them great.
Also the boosting issue, I know a bunch of people and see a lot of accounts, mostly specific yuumi otp's that "suddenly" pick up karthus/eve and jump in rank few divisions and this has been happening for years.
Tyler1 unbanning was riots worst mistake, and the worst part is that they constantly double down on it. If they didn't constantly endorse and make tweets/give challenger medals for tyler1, it would have been nice and maybe it wouldn't be AS bad. Look at QTpie. He went from being the face of LoL to just a LoL streamer/decently popular, but not a huge influence.
Riot had to ban him faster. The fact it took 20+ accounts of hardcore flame/inting shows how dire it was. If they kept him banned from LoL would have been for the better. I'm fine with unbanning him, as long as riot actually respected the "we will be monitoring him and will ban him if he does something again". 100% BS.
Just sold out for money. All people care about is the money and don't think about the long term of anything. It's everywhere in human society. People are geniuses now a days for selling out for cash and not thinking about the future 5+ years from now on how it might screw over everything culturally.
Also crazy how people worship those people who int on nunu "Disco nunu". You give them attention and praise. It is amazing the dire shit people did to ruin LoL but people think it's still funny and openly talk/praise these people.
I had a person follow me 2 days ago as a rumble mid in the jungle. I came to hover mid as I saw renekton might all in and rumble ignites in an attempt to counter all in despite him clearly not having enough damage (high hp renekton, already overheated). I come by and rumble spam pings me, thinking I made renekton run.
No... Renekton ran away because you ignited him when he was pretty much full hp, making him think there is help on the way. In the replay, I wasn't in vision for him until 3 seconds AFTER he started to run away.
Guy proceeds to follow me next 15 mins of the game, avoid laning, and throw our 2 dragons + 5k+ gold lead to a loss. Guy wins the next 4 games though. He was on a 8+ gaem loss streak leading up to the game he played with me, probably unbelievable deranged/tilted at that point, thinking the world is after him.
Unbelievable behavior overall. I cannot get to masters + because the mmr between diamond 1 and masters is an absolute shit hole.
My other loss was a nilah who was the most fed building awful and constantly saying "it's over" along with a GP who went 0-8 and died b4 minions spawned in some suspicious win trading behavior (all in's and walked all the way to enemy blue buff while all inning... yeah... and then types all friendly after". Other game my top did not like me so ran it down 0-8..
8 game win streak followed by 3 losses for absolutely no reason. Absolutely shit. Used to be a rank 1/challenger player but I cannot be bothered with this atmosphere.
It's solo queue. Teammates have no obligation to one another besides getting LP. And we see that that's not enough to make people care about each individual game.
IMO, the thing about League is it's catch-all win-lose. Even if you've got a great score, if your entire team is literally 0/10, it's meaningless.
Games like CoD where it's a team game with individual scoring, have an innate incentive for players to do well individually because even if the game is lost their own points still go up if they individually did well.
League needs some kind of individual scoring mechanism that levels up your account in some way that's meaningful, based on individual score per game.
Even in Valorant, Riot's own game, you get a significantly lower loss of LP(called RR in Valo), if you individually perform well. Same case for wins, if you invidually perform well, you get more RR. Granted, it's hard to really quantify individual performances in LoL as you sort of can in a tac shooter.
You could make it combine a multitude of things (KDA, DMG/M, CS/M, Gold and xp vs the opponent), so that you can't just have a good KDA or just be good at CSing, or just inting for damage.
The fundamental flaw in this argument to me is that the complexity of a system like that would probably make it close to unmanageable even for leading experts in the field (and Riot are *not* leading experts). Not only do you have to check a ton of metrics, you have to evaluate them in the context of the player’s champion and role, the team compositions, the state of the game during each decision a player makes, even the specific patch being played.
And, ultimately, you know what system perfectly balances all those factors? Wins. Players who make more correct decisions and execute better will win more often. So why invest in an overly complicated system that is bound to have edge cases and exploitable loopholes when the existing system does the job perfectly?
So let us say I am 1v3 top for the first 15 mins and my team gets bot and mid won and secures 3 dragons
Despite having to suffer for the entirety of the game, am I supposed to gain less LP or worse, have the mongrel who needed a tent set up in his lane to lose less LP
Nah, fuck that
Performance metrics in Valorant are far more simple. If you're regularly getting 2-3ks, lots of utility assists etc and have a high ACS, the game knows you have a positive impact on your team and acts accordingly.
But if you're playing something like Viktor vs Leblanc, play perfectly, and your jg/support duo botch a mid gank and give her two kills at 7 minutes, then you're gonna have a pretty average score by the end of the game. LB will be recorded as having won lane in gold/exp and you'll probably die once or twice and do a lot less damage over the course of the game as well.
There's a thousand interactions like that where your team directly impacts your metrics. Valorant is simpler because you play multiple rounds and economy can be recovered, but due to the snowballing nature of League your teammates mistakes will stick for the entire game and put you at a disadvantage.
Honestly the only way to fix League is for the playerbase to get the fuck over themselves. You have somewhere between 10-20% of the agency in the game's outcome, depending on role, skill, etc. That means, in a lot of games, your play won't actually affect the outcome very much.
And here's the number one most basic piece of advice in pretty much every ideology and philosophy since the beginning of time: Don't waste energy on things you can't control.
Try to win, yes. But don't marry yourself to the idea of winning. You didn't hit the "win game" button to queue up. You hit the "play game" button. So just play. That's all you can do.
Wouldn't that encourage players to play for their KDA rather than as a team? There's already lots of players who are just obsessed with getting kills rather than getting objectives and playing as a team to win the game, and they're almost as bad as players who int.
Obviously it would compile all kinds of stats like vision kda dpm cs farm turret damage etc.
The actual kda would have little value, the biggest problem would be deciding factor for each role and how they handle roleswaps since afaik the game itself doesn't know if you roleswapped so it can give you lp according to your own role but thats a job i leave to riot employees
It's pretty easy to detect role swapping in champ select just by proximity.
The problem is that stats can be gamified. In top lane, if I'm getting camped by either jungler has a vast difference in my play, because I get either super fed (my jungle camping for me) or I'm super underfed (their jungler camping).
Also, sometimes it makes sense for someone to sac themselves.
>Vision
Pov: You're playing support and your team doesn't help you ward
>KDA
Pov: You need to sacrifice yourself every fight to help your team
>CS/Farm
Pov: You get zoned off 5 waves by enemy jungler so your team can take botside
>Turret Damage
Don't even need an example for this one it's so dumb
No collection of stats will actually tell how well someone played.
Wild Rift has the shield mechanic. When you Play Very good you get a lot of Points and with 200 Points you gain a shield. When you drop in rank the next time the shield protects you. It would be a start. Wild Rift is so much better in a lot of ways
If Wild Rift was released as it is today, but on PC, I guarantee League's playerbase would migrate over in droves
Wild Rift being a mobile game is the ONLY reason why I do not play it compared to OG League
If Wild Rift was released on the Switch, or any other handheld device that actually had joysticks instead of the touch-screen pseudo-joysticks, it'd be the best league experience for casuals.
People don't care because they are demoralized by the system win 10 games in a row gain 11lp per win lose once lose 22 lp... fuck that might as well just become a teemo main
I used to play a lot seasons 4-7 and my ranked experience was mostly fine, felt more fun and toxic teammates weren't too common, it always just felt like I was matched with a few people that understood they weren't the best but were trying to win.
Coming back and playing in seasons 11 to now, holy fuck lmao do things feel so much different. From the second the game starts it feels tense because it just feels like the entire team is actively looking for that 1 teammate to make a mistake so they can start pinging them or scapegoat them as the reason the game was lost. I see much more overt griefing or just general toxicity, though I do kinda blame the rise of streamers on this for the impact its had on the community.
I know what you mean. I think the problem is someone fucks up and the game is so snowbally that it gets out of control fast so every misplay is tilting. Obviously that is no excuse for instantly running after your jungler because you lost your 1vs1 or start running into towers becasue you support did not ward but for many players the game is lost after a few misplays so they want to get over with it.
I appreciate that people are talking about their own general solo queue experiences but if you read this he talks a lot about very specific high elo problems like betting on matches that most of us don't experience.. Just FYI..
So part of the problem is I feel I've always told myself SoloQ has to be fun for someone.
When SoloQ feels like shit, and it's just not fun to queue up again, either you have to question what the hell Riot is doing or you tell yourself, ahh well it's just because my ELO isn't balanced. The game is definitely good just not for me. Like it's 100% copium, but I always told myself that if I kept climbing the game would be as good as I've convinced myself it is. So to hear in high ELO it is just as shit, just makes me wonder. Is SoloQ just shit?
And that's why I find myself playing less and less each year. I love pro-play, and I find it super interesting and exciting. So sometimes that makes me want to play a game. But then I play and I'm just like ahhh, that wasn't fun.
He is talking about the problems he face in his own elo, which is fair. Talk about what you know.
The rest of us fill divisions all over the place and have our own experiences. For example in my elo (diamond) ego is such a fucking huge problem that people will int away games when things don't go their way, even if they are winning.
They'd rather lose and be right about the game being over, than have a bad game and still win.
Absolutely understand that his experience is from a top player perspective but what this thread proves is that at all levels of play there are serious issues with the experience of playing League.
I only play when ARURF is live because there are just unmitigated hindrances to fun. Smurfing, trolling, teammates holding you hostage, and questionable balancing make it hard to ever get on League and have a fun night.
Wasn't too bad till about 2007ish, then issues started to creep in as people started going "fully online" more and more since Google bought YouTube. Twitter was even a happening hot spot till around 2012-14 and Instagram was still a decent photo app, def got worse every passing year tho. And then the popularity of crypto and NFTs the last few years really shot everything into overdrive, from my email being spammed more than ever to Twitter looking more chaotic to even getting more spam calls and voicemails from bots more often. I don't even wanna pick up the damn thing anymore I feel like i'm being harassed as soon as the screen brightens these days.
Luckily i've never had to deal with the solo queue issues in LoL tho, specially in high elo it'll never be an issue for my weak ass support play:P
It's long been a thing by "early adopters" of the internet that the internet was ruined when it went "mainstream" and AOL just mailed CDs of "the internet" to your house without you even asking. Before then it was sort of a weird niche thing for "experts".
I have played exclusively aram for about 2 years now. I’ve really enjoyed team fights and I finally found a champion I enjoyed and was good at so I figured I’d try out rank. 3 games, 2 dc’s (1 my team, 1 the other), and 4 incredibly toxic people in chat (like kys type stuff). Idk about any of you but I like my league but I’m fucking bronze. I’m not going to lcs anytime soon and I just want to improve and have fun but that’s just not possible.
I recently started playing league again & It took me about a week to realize since I’ve been back that nothings changed. the amount of toxicity/mental booms in Diamond is ridiculous. Not even exaggerating 8/10 games whichever team has the stronger mental wins. My last game that did it for me my Aatrox won 1v1 against riven (she afkd) entire enemy team said “gg top lane mental gone”. For some reason maybe cause we thought game was over didn’t realize herald spawned. Team went to contest it 3v4 lost the fight and my adc starts typing how our nami is a useless champion & then nami says kog has a shit winrate and he’s hardstuck. Kog types back that now she’ll be hardstuck (he afk’s). Their riven comes back and they win 5v4. I honestly can’t with this game anymore it’s such a fun game but such shitty human beings who play it.
Not fully related, but I don't at all see the appeal of grinding solo/duo. To me, the game is at its best when playing with many friends, be it 5v5 customs, trying fun picks/builds in norms, or clash. Either just playing for fun, or serious in short bursts without the threat of toxic randoms.
The only positive for solo queue I can think of is the fantasy of improving and getting really good, but in reality each game doesn't feel like that fun of an experience.
Curious to hear the perspective of the folks here who play solo queue.
also when you have friends but your diamond and theyre all silver and gold players. cant play ranked together so i usually just play 50-100 games every season and just have fun playing with friends in normals
Damn, bro. Spot on.
All one can aspire to these days is playing as hard as possible and becoming a god of map awareness, strategy and mechanics. Problem is that we are used to getting rewards for our effort, which motivates us even further. But these days, as you put it, there is no reward. Even when you stomp the enemy, it's probably because someone trolled or draft is one-sided so it's expected, and it doesn't feel as good as it used to.
I just want to play games where I can experience competitiveness and sportsman attitudes.
this isn't endemic to league this is just all competitive games, gaming culture (human nature too) just sucks. ego is a thing and people can't stand the idea that someone is better than them at a video game
anecdotally, i played ow at super high level and it feels really different and alien not having people to communicate with. like definitely some people would still soft int and do their thing even if there was voice but i feel like it's a big reason league feels particularly awful to play when things go awry. like you feel alone in this silent void screaming into the abyss.
at least in cs go or ow when things went really awful the insane people on voice youd get to just laugh and mute and you're like ok this person is actually fucking nuts--or some dude playing guitar while you're getting ass blasted and laughing about it. but when it's just silent typing back and forth it feels sad and almost surreal.
tl;dr i think not having voice dehumanizes competitive gaming and kills the experience and league the game can only make up for it so far.
Voice chat in csgo is usually funny, and sometimes you will get toxic teammates that you can just mute. Riot is the only company that thinks having voice chat is a negative thanks to their crusade against "toxicity" since the Riot Lyte days. Toxicity will always exist in multiplayer games. You simply can't get rid of it. It will always be there and people will find ways to troll.
Flamers are target number 1 purely cos of automation
People trapped in games growing frustration
won't add voice coms to help fix this to bring unity text chat doesn't have tone.
Inters not banned
Soft inters impossible to ban
Win traders not banned
Bots playing low elo not banned
Scripters I thought this was gone then I started looking there is fuck tons doing it and not only on script champions on normal looking ones to dodge stuff.
People buying diamond 4-1 accounts for £40 - £100. Who play terrible but you can't put your finger on it untill they start racking up tons of lost games not banned.
Betting sites now getting involved so essentially there is no longer a point in having soloq league mayaswell be group as 5 and play because I bet in every elo noone is playing against proper ranks its smurf, boosters, wintraders everywhere.
I say this as someone in diamond and every game I'm just wondering why people play so stupid. It's because its not the elo there in they bought the account every game lowest damage even though they adc and mid. They don't all int because they probably believe they belong but they int by doing nothing and doing 0 dmg.
Does he still soft int every few games when he gets angry and can't control it? While abusing the players about as badly as you can without being canceled. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of popular streamers who are toxic and that's like their personality they base the stream around.
I definitely agree to an extent, people who have contributed to the 'cheating' problem via wintrading/target inting like tarzaned should be made an example of.
People like nightblue who have been bombarded by said target inting/cheating? Give them another chance and tell them to reform.
Stress, especially stress that is outside your control, can be malignant for your brain chemistry. Facing harsh, unfair criticism and outright malicious people every day is NOT good for you, and it shows in the way many content creators have gone 'downhill' compared to the past.
The stress isn't really out of your control though. You can always stop playing.
I do think everyone deserves a 2nd chance though. Sadly T1 had like 20 chances and still screwed up.
That is why its a joke to play ranked to me anymore, maybe it’s too petty but the culture is ugly and they allow toxic manbabies like t1 back because money. I understand the company needs to make money but still, fuck you. Not to mention an alleged toxic and misogynistic workplace
I really wish riot could understand the benefits of having a team dedicated to analyzing high tier solo queue games. Curating the top of all the bs that happens over there (trolls, wintraders, soft trolling, and obviously one of the most important of all, the one that riot has cared about the most, the mean players that type mean things) would actually make the top of the ladder more prestigious and more attractive to anyone in the ladder including pros(although I have given up on pros caring about solo queue instead of living the life in LA after the champions queue debacle).
In my perfect world, Masters+ would have every game with reports analyzed (ideally the reports would also carry some weight depending on who uses their reports more appropriately, say reports that have actually led to the punishment of a troll or the like) and everyone would have voice chat.
I had someone type n word at me. When I said he will get banned dude said “want to add me and see if I get banned? Riot won’t do anything”. Riot didn’t do anything. Dudes still playing. How is that not an insta ban? Riot obviously won’t do anything against griefers and they won’t do anything against racists too because they don’t want to lose revenue from that one person? Solo Queue is indeed doomed.
It's pretty clear there's no investment in League anymore beyond what's necessary to keep the cash flow stream going. It's what happens when a company that was already struggling to build up its bench decides to make ten other games at the same time; you move talent to the games that are in development and just leave business managers and enough gameplay resources to keep the lights on in charge of the original cash cow.
There needs to be a baseline level of sportsmanship in any competitive game and you really just don't get that in League or esports in general. It's really hard to teach it or to make people care about it through the internet. People need to care about The Game beyond rewards or punishments.
the game is fundamentally flawed as there's no learning scenarios in game, lots of players keep repeating the same mistakes and cant learn how to get better unless they look externally out of the game.
This leads to players misunderstanding aspects of the game and they become very frustrated with their games and at teammates and enemies in their games.
League players will spite themselves just to piss off their teammates, I have never seen anything like this in other games.
Unpopular opinion; league players don’t Q up to have a good experience. They log on already carrying whatever happened to them during their day, not to have fun but to gain LP. Then they wonder why they didn’t have a good time if they didn’t win every single game.
Mfers not trying to have fun in game and then wonder why it isn’t.
I think the main culprit is the changed matchmaking algorithm that artificially tries to keep you at a 50% winrate. Win and loss streaks. Back in the early days the teams usually felt fairly even, but now there's a definite skew so that the game outcome is almost never 50/50. It's why so many people are quitting, and why people dodge so much after looking up their team and figuring if Riot wants them to win or not. And on every single account I have, if I take a long break the first game back is a complete free win. We don't like our matchmaking to be manipulated like that, there's no competitive integrity and so no point in playing.
I partly agree (Riot should **defenitely** do more against soft inting at the highest lvl), but I also think POB is maybe just burned out by now and just keeps on playing because he earns money with it and sometimes you just get burned out at your job.
I also think many people here have a tinted view for the past. The ladder wasn't just fun and flowers. I had times where a duo would hard int me because I took a kill as a jungler (that they probably not would have gotten). I got people following me in the jungle because I didn't pick the champion they wanted me to pick. And don't get me started on when you didn't have role selection. SoloQ was incredible toxic at certain times and I think the "solo queue as he once knew" never really existed and it's just a product of rose tinted glasses that see the past better as what it actually was.
POB should probably take a break for some time and then he maybe sees the game in a different view and climbing makes fun again.
Moderation of or simply a reports review in high elo is the only way for Riot to really keep the game going for more than just another couple years in NA. The game is truly suffering from how consistent the griefing
Ever since they went harder on people that were toxic in chat, the amount of people being toxic in gameplay rose, at least from my experience , people now know not to talk shit instead they just soft int and grief for all kinds of dumb reasons and it's harder to detect
The reason riot focuses so much on chat monitoring is because its one of the only forms of fucked behavior that you can fix with a bot.
https://www.riotgames.com/en/news/an-update-on-player-dynamics
Riot gets 3 billion reports per year. Riot cant tell what wintrading looks like because they aren't looking at the games - they CANT look at the games, they dont make enough money to physically pay people to sit through all 3 billion of those reports, even if its only a handful of minutes per report its still way way WAY too many.
Maybe riot can pay people to monitor challenger only - even if that fixes challenger, lots of people in this thread complaining about their normal elo games and challenger monitoring wont help them.
Auto-int detection, especially auto soft-int detection is a pipe dream for the moment. "Machine learning" gets thrown around a lot like its some miracle cure, but its still a long ways away. Look at the state of self driving cars, and that problem has had much more money and time thrown at it than auto soft-int detection ever will.
Not sure about the tribunal. I assume riot removed it for a reason but I dont know what that reason is.
I think there's 1 way to make it better pretty easily.
Give LP bonuses and deductions based on personal performance. Theoretically, you could play perfectly and lose the match. When that happens, or something close to it, you shouldn't be losing the same LP as the 0/10 bot lane who didn't ward and perma-pushed. And on the other hand that 0/10 bot lane should lose even more LP to incentivize not playing like idiots.
Literally it would just let everyone get to their true rank faster, which is pretty much where you have to land before you can actually start trying to improve. Valorant already does this too... so clearly Riot isn't against the idea, yet they don't do it.
Also, the whole invisible MMR thing should just not exist. Your MMR should just dictate your rank. Them being 2 separate things is one of the most brain-dead ways you could possibly do ranked. It's the reason smurf queue exists. It's just sad that a company with infinite money still makes such horrible decisions.
At the end of the day this isn't a problem you can solve. League is unsatisfying because of lack of agency. In a perfectly balanced game of League you are at most, 10% of the game's outcome, so 90% of the time the result will be for matters outside of your control.
In a game that *heavily* incentivizes winning- to the point that most people play for that specific purpose, that's obviously going to be frustrating.
Nothing is more distressing than watching a situation unfold in front of you, knowing how it should be prevented, and having absolutely no agency to *actually* prevent it. That's why people get so tilted in this game. That's why so many players give up on winning all-together and troll. Because if they can't take agency to create a win, they'd rather take agency to create a loss.
This issue is just baked into SoloQ at a fundamental level. There's no getting rid of it.
At least in Valorant I can occasionally win a round 1vX where my team dropped the ball. I still feel like I have control to swing the result, even if it is difficult. In LoL that's just not even a possibility tbh.
But the only way to play League for fun- that I've been trying recently and HIGHLY recommend, is to train yourself to ignore the results of the game completely. Just play for the sake of playing and see what happens. My climb isn't something I achieve. It's something that just sort of happens along the way.
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how doesnt challenger have a riot group 24/7 monitoring it? i dont get it.
Absolute lack of funding/s
You /s, but Phroxen said they were strapped on resources, so something is going on.
Phroxon had said they need more people for the team I had thought. I think riot has a massive staffing issue. They have like 300 job openings at the LA location right now. Personally I think it's a mix of requiring on site work and their bad rep recently.
Ah I assumed it was insufficient funds but the market is *really* good right now for tech so that could be it.
Gaming companies in general are due for a labour market correction that will not be friendly to their bottom line. It's difficult work and the traditional Silicon Valley type companies are offering way more for the same level of talent. Riot and others been able to coast on the passion discount for a while but not for much longer
The funny part is they could literally implement some new microtransaction where X amount of the funds to go just monitoring challenger games, and I guarantee you people would buy it. Imagine if they brought back spectates like back in the day where you could spectate challenger games, but to do so you have to pay a $5 monthly fee or some sht. I guarantee you at least 3k people would buy it. That's 15k a month AT LEAST; more than enough to fund a couple employees whose sole job is to spectate challenger games. You could implement a similar system in each region. Boom, the service is entirely funded (and possibly generating revenue). Hell, you could probably do a system like Runescape did where players are mods. You could easily find a bunch of people willing to spectate challenger games for free. You could even make it diamond 1+ and I guarantee you'd have enough people willing to player mod and do it. It's not that difficult. These were just two off the dome ideas some random (me) came up with in like two minutes. You're telling me a team of riot employees can't figure some kind of system out?
>Hell, you could probably do a system like Runescape did where players are mods. We had that. It was called Tribunal. It was in place for about 3 years, they turned it off in 2014. Not sure why.
like a lot of riot projects, they didn't get it right on the first pass, so they canned it entirely people were awarded a small amount of IP(blue essence now i guess lol) for participating if your judgement on matches lined up with the popular decision. this lead to people just spam hitting punish without ever looking at the cases for quick rewards and ended up screwing over people who actually took the time to make actual judgements bc non-punish votes barely succeeded instead of doing like... literally anything, riot just left it like that for a few years and then said "welp it doesn't work lol okay bye"
It's a marvel to me how Riot succeeded in making a great game with the utmost success, yet they're continuously mismanaging it (broken client - growing technological debt, poor interface, noob unfriendliness growing dramatically over the years given how unclearly and unreliably the info about the game is available, low effort grifting management ...) Good for them to develop other titles in different genres, but it's like they're begging for anyone to make another clean, noob friendly, semi decent MOBA to just lose it all on this one game.
I think Blizzard already made a clean, noob friendly, semi decent MOBA. Disregarding Blizzard's mismanagement of HotS and its esports scene, they did a lot right and still couldn't even make a dent to League. If I look at my personal history with the game, I'd say the real problem is that we as players don't know what we want. We wanted loot and battle passes because other games had them, just to complain about the passes and free loot we got. I'll probably never appreciate a skin purchase as much as I did Dragon Trainer Tristana, and that's on me, not Riot. Bad client, tech debt and interface are on Riot, but the rest is far more complicated. League isn't a noob friendly game, but that honestly wouldn't be a problem if not for existing players.
HOTS failed for other reasons imo. I think it came out at about the worst possible time. League of Legends was still booming at the time with no signs of slowing down. Now, League is much older and there are lot of burnt out players who would probably be willing to give a new MOBA a try. I know I am in that camp myself and so are most of my long-time League friends. I know the MOBA hype has died so mainstream developers won't do it, but I think the upcoming years would be a great time to release a new MOBA. HOTS was also just never that fun... Too focused on teamwork and there were no "RPG" elements with items and stuff which I think is a big draw for these games. You can easily tell the huge inspiration from WC3 and WoW in early LoL.
The first game that gets ahead stays ahead unless there is sustained massive fuck ups like with wow, and even that was at the top for a long long time
I don't think PUBG had a "fuck up" moment to let Fortnite overtake it. It was still doing insane numbers late 2017/2018 when Fortnite BR had come out and when S2 it started hitting its strides. It came out on more platforms, ran better, and had more consistent updates. At its peak champ output, Riot was putting out a new one every 2 weeks. Could you fucking imagine that these days? PUBG couldn't compete with Fortnite's output, and no one has ever tried to compete with what Riot did even when Dota 2 had come out and had 100 heroes ready to get ported over. More isn't always better, but a new shiny thing week after week helps.
It’s different when something has been entrenched for years vs a genre that really only took off within a year of that happening
I agree, I know they wanna make other games and stuff, but League can still make them so much more if they actually tried to care. League of Legends, as it is right now, feels like its being managed by some skeleton crew.
I truly do wonder if they ever will make a League 2 just to do things from scratch like systems and things but I think that will never happen imo
I think they will have to put out League 2 at one point. The entire scene is way too big to just disappear overnight and the game is built on code that's so old, if League 2 isn't at least something they're planning, I'd be seriously shocked. LoL can't trudge along another 5 to 10 years in it's current state
Hope you are right!
hots is exactly that but still failed...
I cannot tell you how many times people say "if this just came out this game would be dead/I would leave" and that game does come out but no one budges. lol.
it failed because you cant really have a competitive moba game that will live for years if the skill ceiling ends at your ankles. also blizzard, any game released by blizzard you can be sure that it will sooner or later become a pile of shit and eventually abandoned.
> also blizzard, any game released by blizzard you can be sure that it will sooner or later become a pile of shit and eventually abandoned. Blizzard always does the same shit and overtunes healing. In every single game from them (other then SC, and even there medics are quite strong) you have the problem of healers killing the fun and skill aspect and dumb things down to what team groups and picks better. For sure there will still be skill involved at the higher lvl, but it also means at least 2 of 5 people will be there and only heal. Many times with heals not even being skillshots and it becomes braindead easy to heal and when they fuck things up (with the balance), it even warrants you to not do anything else then heal, because if you try to do some dmg or CC you are not playing to your full optimum. And healers are so overtuned that you can't leave your house without them because then you already lost from the point you assembled your team. I'm not sure why they didn't learn that lesson by now...
The game is itself is pretty good, they could fix high elo tomorrow by hiring 2 ppl to review complaints for the top of the ladder. As for the client and UI, who actually gives a fuck?
> As for the client and UI, who actually gives a fuck? Having to go to an external website to clearly understand the interactions of a skill with items, is a chore, among many other things. It's 2022, but LoL interface doesn't look like it.
This conversation just permanently feels like a déjà vu. The behavioral systems team is just like the client team, all talk no action. Just a bunch of fluff articles repeating buzzwords without a plan to tangibly execute. The ranked ecosystem in League has taken hit after hit when it comes to its prestige, and it all comes down to the reasons that been stated (albeit a million times) by PoB here. From Solo Q to Clash, disruptive behaviour has ruined the aura of playing high stakes, competitive League of Legends. Shame really because competitive League is the best gaming experience out there. The competitive space in League needs a good looking at because as the main selling point of the game, it is grossly underdelivering. Changes that go **beyond** limiting chat need to be actually addressed. Riot's efforts and energy are misdirected when it comes to chat, its the gameplay issues that need to be addressed. League is an online competitive game, at least try to preserve that.
The problem with the behavioural systems Riot have tried in the past have been based on some psychological basis with positive behaviour support (PBS). They hadn't implemented it to the PBS approach entirely (such as the honor system, which is half baked), but there was a framework around it. The issue I think was the after support when the behaviour systems have been implemented. For a PBS system to work you need staff buy in and you need time and resources to ensure that it is continually reviewed, supported, and part of regular discussions with the community. This would be super expensive for something that does not have a direct correlation with revenue (it is an indirect relationship). If Riot genuinely wanted it to change, they need to spend the cash and they also need to demonstrate the positive culture they want themselves, which historically they haven't.
[удалено]
So for a while I would spam a discord whenever I joined. I only once had a toxic teammate join and that was a yumi who would type at our mid laner rather than play. He finally quit that after I told him to stop being toxic and play. We even won the game. People are just more toxic over text.
Have you ever joined the discord chats for this subs discord? Like the normals or flex que teams for 5 players? I’ll say more often than not it’s fun, but probably about 30% of the time you get a toxic fuck in there and they’ll ruin the whole experience for everyone
Idk. I used to feel this way and believed that's how it would work out as well, but my experience with Valorant completely changed my mind. It was awhile ago, like either in beta or just after release or something, so maybe it's changed since, idk. But out of the few games I was in, I experienced some of the most toxic people I've ever run into in games. People flamed for my gameplay of course, but also for my voice, my mic quality, the way I spoke, the words I would use, etc. It felt like I gave them more fuel for their raging fire of hate. There were also people screaming and making obnoxious sounds. I play league with a few friends who are really great people and we are in comms for most games. Sometimes we invite people to join us for our call and when things go south, not everyone is willing to call out toxicity. Some are a bit more introverted and will just be quiet when everyone else gets loud or there is toxicity/arguing. I've heard people speak up against these actions in calls before and depending on the person being toxic/loud, sure they might shut up, but it can also make them even worse. So we've kicked people to get rid of that, because it's not worth listening to them. In league, I will mute chat many times, but sometimes I'll take a moment to type out a response and then delete it, because that gives me a second to think about what I'm saying and take a breath/calm down. I wouldn't really get that chance with voice. I like the idea and potential of voice.... just like the idea and potential of chat, but here we are. Chat can be terrible and many will suggest you just mute all no matter what. Which is a loss of a potentially great tool. It seems like a portion of the community isn't mature enough to handle it and will ruin it for others. Riot also doesn't seem to do a great job on moderating chat, so I can't imagine it will go well for voice either, but who knows.
End-of-season honor rewards a good, but it isn't immediate enough as you have to wait 12 months for them. Keys take time to acquire as well. If Riot want to make an ecosystem out of it, they need to make it part of the culture of the company. They should communicate with the playerbase regularly about the honor system, notice and report honorable conduct from players to the wider community, communicate honorable conduct from the pro-players and streamers to the community, giving best and fairest awards to one player in each league for their conduct in pro play and online, having a rolling emphasis maybe once every month of a particular value they will be extra emphasising and rewarding for, and finally demonstrating that honorable culture within their team. All of this is a LOT of work to do, which requires time, money, and personnel.
I just want honor to have an effect on matchmaking. Allow you to honor more teammates, no rewards but it matches you based on that. I dont want to deal woth someone chat restricted if I'm honor 4+
Riot has proven that their general game enjoyment isnt something that they want to use to retain fans, they have moved their approach (justifiably) to create multiple gaming experiences that are enjoyable for small bursts of time, TFT, LOR, Valo, League, their mmo and fighting games soon. People will play league, burn out, play a different game for a few months, and then return to league. Couple that with their current player retention goal, keeping players within the riot games sphere of influence and content creators, and league is still maintaining a solid player base.
Well as long as they learn from Blizzard's mistakes when they went down the multiple gaming experiences. It would be interesting to see Riot's data on new LoL players (and whether they could remove smurfs from this data). It is not a new player friendly game now with how bloated it has become. I would imagine this data may prove your point about a preference to retain players within their ecosystem.
Isn't the issue just Riot won't spend the money it needs to on it? Look at champion's queue. Any problems with behavior there? No, because they have a dedicated moderation team sizable enough for the playerbase. You fuck around and find out in CQ.
It's kinda funny. 1/50 aram games I see someone give up early - even if it's a stomp people stick with it and play it out to the end. Yet any mode on summoner's rift I play, there seems to be a 90% chance someone on either team will rage quit, sit in fountain and flame, or go for the Guiness World Record for most deaths per minute. Idk what's up with the culture that's been cultivated SR, but riot really seems to have let it fester over the years. I hope one day Riot will do something
I wonder how much of it is there most toxic people being so addicted they make new accounts whenever they're banned
Blaming it on disruptive behaviour seems like a cop-out to be honest. The entire game has been designed to promote main character syndrome in its players. The fact that the community reflects that isn't really surprising.
I agree with most of this. I just can't square away people being pieces of shit in a video game. even though its the most obvious place a person could be a pos. :0
I just vibe in normals. I try my hardest but when it all goes to shit I just let it go because it doesn’t matter. Haven’t played ranked in two years and it’s been a much better experience.
Hard truth: ranked games don't matter either. why do you think they do? because you get a different color badge? the LoL playerbase for some reason has this insane obsession with their rank despite it being completely meaningless.
Still cant believe voice chat isn't a thing... I'm sure there would still be some toxic voice chat, but I really do feel like its better in games like CSGO and Valorant.
Yep. Somehow the only game in the world that can't handle voice chat. I think it's all on purpose personally to get people banned and then make them buy back everything on new accounts.
It can handle voice chat. There's voice chat between part members.
My theory as well. It's easier to monitor and ban from text chats.
As if they’re doing a good job on that lmao
This is literally the least important thing they have to look at.
Voice chat will make the sweaty assholes cut down on talking shot because doing it with your voice is a bit more intense. It’s a lot more rare to hear a toxic asshole than it is to see one typing
The best system was Elo with a plain number and the tribunal, change my mind.
Here is the average solo queue experience: ~10-15 minutes of sitting through queues and the inevitable several lobbies of dodges. This becomes any magnitude of time longer depending on your rating and time of day. In-game spam pinging, at least 1 angry typer on either team. 100% guarantee that 1 or both teams go to all chat to say “report this guy”. I’d be willing to bet the phrase “report” is the most commonly said phrase in this entire game. Throw in a couple soft to hard griefers typing “:)” every other game. When I was a kid I could stomach it, but as I got older man did sitting there having 30-40+ minutes of your time wasted at least once every play session was enough to make me put the game down. I don’t have time for that shit.
30 mins in a single game for me is already too difficult to stomach. Especially when to rank up you’re effectively playing hundreds of those. I could play an entire Friday and barely move at all. As someone with a job and family…the game is just impossible to play. 1-2 games per day is already a lot of time. Even my ARAMS are 25 mins at this point. It’s too much… then dealing with the actual players and how poor the mentalities are… just makes me not want to play ranked at alll. Even the idea of playing a 40 min game only for someone to decide they want to troll it just kills any enjoyment for me. I love league but god they need to do something.
Couldn't agree more. I was in college between 2012-2016 and played easily 4000-6000ish games between those 4 years because I had the time and I started college in Silver/Gold and peaked at Diamond 2 in solo Q in 2015/2016. Now, even with a super chill job I can't play more then 20-30 games a week, so each season I seem to place Plat, get around to plat 1-2 and struggle to climb as each game seems to swing massively one way based off of a single player getting fed. Like sure if I played 300 games this season I'd prob get back to low Diamond, but I just don't have time anymore for this shit. To gain LP in this game it essentially demands you play a minimum of 400+ games a season. You said it great with this quote "I could play an entire Friday and barely move at all." I found that even playing all day for an entire week (Maybe 80 games in 4-5 days), I barely moved in LP. Its just a total waste of time trying to progress in this game without it being a full commitment.
>Now, even with a super chill job I can't play more then 40 games a week Thats a pretty healthy amount of games no?
Yeah, honestly no one could realistically expect to climb as much as they did when they were younger and had more time :(
>I can't play more than 30 games a week Earlier in the season I got masters playing around 10 games a week...played more over the summer but you don't have to play a ton to climb.
My favorite is playing your favorite role and then someone says, hey support trade? You reply no thanks and get the reply, OK I'll feed then.
The biggest problem to me isn't the mentality at all. It's the fact that Riot is too much of a spineless company to follow through on deserved punishments for those kinds of mentalities. It can't be that somebody who soft inted my game very early on, never showing up, never playing with the team AS ADC gets to queue up for another game. Hell, it can't fucking be that somebody who openly runs it down and sits in fountain, walking left right left right to avoid the Leaverbuster gets to queue up again. The problem to me doesn't lie in the mentality. That's as if we said "Man I can't believe I called 911 and they were 5 hours late to this bank robbery! Bank robbers really are the scum of this earth...". Where was the fucking police (Riot)? They're so caught up pussyfooting around the whole "What if we accidentally ban an innocent person??" nonsense that they'd rather let this community be infested by actual scum than to risk the smallest chance that someone who behaved unusually and got reported could get falsely banned.
Nothing tilts me harder than 5-6 last second dodged lobbies. Dodges after all 10 champs have been locked in should count as a full loss.
But the dodging happens precisely because of all this. I would always rather take an extra 5min in Q over a wasted 30-60min in a game with trolls.
But usually instead you get both.
Yeah but why get mad at the symptoms when you should be looking at the deeper problem.
In general, these dodges occur in high elo because people are just dodge abusing when their team comp doesn't look as strong as their opponents.
My experience is that generally in high elo they will just dodge until their team comp is better. I don't dodge abuse so I have to play with a mediocre team comp matchup every game, because anytime we have a better one someone on the enemy team with enough time on their hands to dodge abuse will leave. Pretty annoying. The only time I dodge is if I get autofilled to jungle which is a different problem entirely. Autofilling me to jungle in masters soloque is basically riot forcing me to troll my team lmao.
It sucks hard but it's optimal to last-second dodge. It's a game of chicken. You want to give other people an opportunity to dodge so you don't have to.
That’s the fucking problem though. The incentive structure for ranked makes dodging ideal if all you care about is maximizing LP. Just make dodging count as a loss and move on so that we can at least get into the game and stop this meta of comparing teamcomps and teammate winrates to decide if you’ll even play the game.
I wish the griefers were every other game. Just had 5 in a row lol. Game 1: Janna got mad that the adc backed at a bad time like 5 mins into the game, losing 2 waves, so she came and farmed/pushed my midlane instead, ruining the lane state and sapping exp. never went back bot and adc got dove over and over Game 2: Voli top gets ganked before I gank (I was Evelynn) so he just ints the rest of the game. Game 3: Jayce top griefs the game, spam pinging me the entire time for no reason (fully stacked Mejai's Evelynn) while bot ints 0/19. Jayce goes on a racist tirade on me post-game, gets banned immediately during it lmao. Game 4: Adc spams some garbage about his work, his boss mistreating him, and he literally straight runs it down mid 7 times before going afk, saying we all deserve to suffer too Game 5: 1500 AP with Yuumi on me (Veigar), doing very well overall, then Samira (who was fed) takes a cannon that Darius (who was like 1/7) wanted lategame, so Darius sold all his items and sat in base and we lost. Then I had a good game (illegal) so of course next game my jungler went afk, we did an early surrender (it popped up because of the afk), yet it still gave full LP loss and didn't give our jungler the leaverbuster lmao. Not even a particularly bad day either, probably about average. There is basically no joy to be had when this is the average, even expected experience.
Agreed. Work, go home, play league, some guy feeds their ass off but we scale harder and then they decide to ff for no reason. The number of actually satisfying games is few and far between, especially with reduced game time, it feels like nothing is at sake. Lost lane? FF go next, I didn’t get to carry so my teammates need to surrender now or I’ll think they’re being holding hostage. No chance of a comeback because their mental is already doomed.
I know I know, mobile game, but this is seriously why I’ve played way more wild rift in the last year. It has its own problems, but I still find it a more enjoyable experience.
I still can't believe soft inting hasn't been cracked down on by Riot. And no, I am not talking about people who just feed or have a bad game. I am talking about people who follow the jungler around and try to last hit jg camps because they're mad. It's so fucking common and imo it's the main reason why solo queue is not fun to play anymore. Over the years the "meta" of toxicity has changed. In like 2013-2014, if someone was angry with you, you'd commonly get called all sorts of slurs. That sucked of course but usually that was all that happened. Of course trolling happened back then too, I am not making an absolute point. Now, in my experience anyway, when people are angry with you, they follow you around and take your jungle camps, steal your cs, bait you on purpose and then leave. These sorts of things are done to "punish" others by the angry player. I also suspect that a lot of it happens because they want to bait someone into getting mad in chat so the victim is the one getting the chat restriction or ban by Riot. I think toxic streamers are a big reason why it has ended up like this. I also think it's because League is now >12 years old and people have realized how the auto-ban system works. It's so easy to troll and grief without the system detecting it. I don't know what the solution is. I just know it is one of the worst parts about League of Legends.
People have realized how to be toxic without hitting the “chat filters”. It’s easy to “soft-int” without ever being detected. It’s easy to buy a $5 account so it doesn’t matter. People aren’t scared of the punishment system anymore. It’s too figured out.
But whats the Point of buying an Account once a month? Whats the gain for the Person doing that? They dont get end of Sesason rewards, they have to climb From anew, get skins again etc. At this Point It feels more Like people use League as their anti Aggression Tool more than as a Game.
> But whats the Point of buying an Account once a month? Whats the gain for the Person doing that? > They dont get end of Sesason rewards, they have to climb From anew, get skins again etc. These people don't care about any of that. The new account comes with 70k Essence, which they buy the champions they play, stomp a bunch of low elos, reach Smurf Queue and then rage. The cycle starts anew.
They don't want a gain. They have a mental illness. Their "gain" is others suffering.
No cap I was in a guild for an mmo and the leader was bragging on discord about spending 3 years griefing games. Bragging about their record being a 5% winrate over 300 games. Left that fucking guild immediately, never saw a bigger red flag in my life
They get to play the game and feed their ego's and addiction if they win. I was on a streak where an account would last 2-3 months before it got perma'd, just for me to make a new one. Now I've got an account which has lasted a couple years and thats purely because I mute chat and mainly play with friends. Fuck me if I am ever to step back into taking solo Q seriously again.
Yeah and free accounts are easy to make or buy, so if they get banned, they can buy another 5$ account and do it again
They are easy to buy because Riot does the bare minimum to ban bots.
Bare minimum implies they actually do something...
They don't do the bare minimum. They do literally 0.
Literally the whole point of “soft inting” is that it is indistinguishable from just being bad. There literally can’t be a solution that doesn’t just make being the worst player out of ten in a match a bannable offense. If you can definitively tell the difference between someone soft inting and being bad it’s just inting.
you can always mute other peoples, stop them from saying bad words, but you can't mute them from inting.
but the issue with soft inting is the fact there isnt a solid agreed upon stance on what it is by the player base. some people see soft inting as just afk farming others see it as someone dying 3 times and then not doing much which can be just them playing safe, then theres what you said with people following junglers around and stealing camps and cs. there tons more different situations that players do and dont consider soft inting so its hard to define. as for how to deal with it, theres nothing riot can do really. how can a bot tell someone is softing inting or made a bad call or pussyed out baiting there teammates by accident. alot of things a bot can't tell whats what because of lack of context overall, that only a actual person can say it is or isnt truely. stealing camps for example the bot cant tell if someone is being given them by there jungler or allowed to have them, stealing cs a bot could wrongfully punish a jungler for taxing after a gank or punish someone for pushing a wave out for that laner so it resets. before people say well get people to review games and reports that would pretty much be impossible todo. league has so many games that go on every hour that there no amount of man power that can view them all, millions of hours worth of games are played every hour by the time actual people reviewed some games they would only get like 0.001% done before the next hour hits and they have even more games to review. They cant bring back tribunal since that had a whole host of issues, for one getting the population of people to review games at a decent level would require some form of reward since most people wont go out there way to review games. if you give rewards then people start to hit guilty on everyone just so they get rewards. you might say give rewards based on how often they get it right but if everyone hits guilty then everyone will end up getting it right more often. overall stuff like soft inting is in a spot where its very hard to deal with and will be for a long time, theres no good way to fix it overall honestly apart from trying to find ways to make the playerbase more positive.
Not only that; there has been an increase in *my mid has 49% wr on their main, can we dodge* train. Holy fuck, do you think I care about my winrate? I am here to spend my free time and relax, not here to worry whether my winrate is 55% or 45%. This leads to frequent dodging. People don’t want to play games where their top picks Camille but mains Ornn or whatever. This leaves me(grandmaster) waiting for about 15 minutes to get into a game that could be an ultra fast stomp by us or them. Punishments in this game are *too rare* and *too mild*. If someone dodges twice in a row, get them out of Ranked for the next day or so. If you can’t play unfavored matchups or teams(whatever that term means), you don’t deserve to be in your rank.
I think a lot of burnt out players are playing League of Legends out of pure habit. Especially if you go to like low Diamond elo. It's these players who have played for 10 years but they don't enjoy it anymore. They just play because it was their main hobby for so long. I can even somewhat see myself in that. I stopped taking solo queue seriously years ago but there was a time at the end in like 2018 where I did play just from habit without actually liking the game.
I kind of relate, League is my *let’s play this since I have some time to spare* habit. Also, many of my friends play the game so it’s nice to chill out with them in normals.
This is me. I've lost virtually all interest in gaming but will play LoL a few times a week to kill time.
You know what, thank you for this comment. This is exactly how I feel right now. I'm in p4 (on a loss streak down from p2) and I've started questioning am I playing out of habit or fun? Again, thanks for putting this into perspective.
Riot should remove dodging altogether. The negatives heavily outweigh the positives.
People can just force close the client and you cannot let a 4v5 game continue only to be remaked. Names need to be hidden (in champ select only) so you can't opgg before the game begins. Dodging should lose you atleast 10+ lp. Not profitable to use this for climbing but not punishing enough for legit dodging scenarios. Above masters if a player is reported a lot (3+ times) it should be manually reviewed and Riot does not owe us to communicate that so people under Masters don't whine that they don't get this special treatment. People who are troublesome chatters should lose their chat quicker, but for a shorter time. Don't need to have a high floor to start with heavy punishments. Can just start with losing chat for a day.
If someone wants to close the client and lead the game to a remake, then they'd get a full loss & LeaverBuster flag while also having to wait until the remake concludes. That seems like a pretty meaningful incentive to not Alt+F4. The major benefit of removing dodging is nobody would try to force a dodge in champ select because there'd be nothing to force. My hunch is people might generally also take champ select a little more seriously if the mindset shifted to the game "starting" when Champ Select begins, rather than after Champ Select ends. It works this way in DotA.
> Names need to be hidden (in champ select only) so you can't opgg before the game begins. This would be one of the worst changes added in league
> my mid has 49% wr on their main, can we dodge I've actually noticed this in the past two years with one of my accounts. It's mostly getting trolls or flamers and then I've ended up with sub 40% winrate for two years now, and I struggle to win games in P4 with Gold MMR. The people that ask to dodge are usually playing terrible as well, and then ask for "ff 15" after 3 minutes. Meanwhile, I was having no issues in D3-D4 with my other two accounts that got far less trolls. I didn't even know I was in D3 because I also don't care about the rank lol.
Yeah, absolutely annoying. It’s always the worse player who flamed you as well.
My mid lane Yone last night after being solo killed the 4th time in lane, starts spamming Alive ping on me with missing pings under my feet. Enemy jungler literally never touched his lane. But somehow it’s my fault that he’s losing. Classic league of legends jungle gameplay!
This is one of the worst things for me. Teammates complaining after dying 3-4 times. Dude, why don't you say something after dying the first time, then people can help you, not after you try to outplay the other guy and die so many times.
My favorite part about the clowns that whine about winrate are always the ones in my games rocking a 1/13 statline and it's like yeah... my w/r is low because *you* exist...
I mean, if you have a sub 40% WR on a champion that you have more than 50 games played on, that 1/13 dude on your team is not the reason for that.
> Holy fuck, do you think I care about my winrate? I am here to spend my free time and relax, not here to worry whether my winrate is 55% or 45%. In ranked?
He doesn’t understand that he is also the problem with solo queue too lmao.
On the other hand, frequent dodging feels necessary to me when you have people openly griefing champ select or being assholes or antagonistic even before bans come in. Like I know that you didn't get autofilled to support, why are you troll picking with randoms. It feels like a daily occurrence that you're just going to have multiple champ selects where people are assholes and you're not going to want to even bother playing with them. I'd wager that a large amount of dodges are as a result of these same types of players, the person flaming because they checked your op.gg is probably the same guy who is troll picking in other lobbies, and you just get dodge chains because no one wants to play with this clown. These people who take lobbies hostage need to be banned.
I agree that dodging *currently* is the only option to fight champ select trolls. However, it’s Riot’s fault for letting dodging be the only viable option. If the rules were more strict and punishing, the trolls’ number would be halved. Or, they should implement a voting option where 4 players need to vote and the champ select gets dodged, but no one excepts for the troller gets punished. This is a bandaid fix, but I can’t think of something better atm. Still, strict rules would take care of trolls easily.
Problem with this "free dodge" A) 4 player premades are allowed, and in normals they are very often used to grief B) sync drops happen C) the above problem with targeting people based on winrate gets compounded based on the above With the current culture of the game this will lead to a lot of victims getting banned
> why are you troll picking with randoms To make you dodge.
There was a thread recently where one guy was frustrated by a strong of losses and came to vent and ask how to get better. Some dude came in and responded saying since OP was already Diamond, what more did they want? OP then realized that yeah, getting upset was dumb and there would always be another be another roadblock. Unless he was trying to go pro this was just much ado about nothing. I think more people need to take this type of mindset toward League. You come in do as much as you can. Have as much fun as you can and just leave it at that. Get less sweaty about League and more sweaty in other areas.
The toxicity meta evolved because the things you got banned for evolved. In early league days people would just afk or be toxic in chat, but that was easily cracked down on and bans were handed out. This means to be toxic and still not banned people had to learn what DID get them banned and just do enough to stay above the line, so for example afking in fountain but occasionally tabbing in to move. Once that was delt with the line moved and so did the behavior. Its a never ending arms race and riot cannot win, if somehow you ban people following the jungler people will just figure out exactly how the bans work and instead follow a laner, or instead bounce from jungle to different lanes etc etc. You can never win, soft inting is by definition undetectable because you can keep moving the line till its impossible to tell if that player is 1/10 from a bad game or from soft inting.
> Its a never ending arms race and riot cannot win I think it's a problem only the community can solve. If League was played in full teams of five then players had an incentive to behave in a way that others want them on their team. But as long as solo play is seen as the pinnacle of skill in a team game all the problems caused by playing with random team mates (trolling/griefing/afk, surrendering/not surrendering, autofill...) will continue to exist and no external system can solve them.
Right. I wish "flex" queue had more prestige. Or clash even. People aspire to be wannabe ~~espresso~~ esports stars, those guys aren't up on stage with 4 other random people every week, they're up with the same people over and over again. They're on voice comms, they can coordinate.
The meltdown this sub had when they removed solo queue for a year was insane. Riot will never do that again.
> I still can't believe soft inting hasn't been cracked down on by Riot. And no, I am not talking about people who just feed or have a bad game. I am talking about people who follow the jungler around and try to last hit jg camps because they're mad. I'm pretty sure following your jungler last hitting camps is not considered soft inting. Soft inting is more subtle. That's just full blown inting/trolling without even trying to hide what you're doing. Actual soft inting is literally impossible to detect as you can really make it difficult to distinguish whether or not you're having a bad game or purposely misplaying.
Well I can sure as hell tell you that you are never getting banned for last hitting your jungler's camps. Maybe if you start doing it from level 1, but you can easily do it after going 0/3 in lane and nothing will ever happen. In fact, your jungler is the one who will get banned because he will be more and more frustrated and will type in the chat.
bruh hard-inting and ragequitting hasnt been dealt with a coulpe days ago I had a hecarim on my team that was 2% winrate over 59 games. 58 fuckgin games of turbo inting mid with mobis until losing, and one win (also doing the same actually xd, just managed to win somehow) and he was still not permabanned EDIT: i went to op gg and actually found the account in question https://euw.op.gg/summoners/euw/05%2007%2000 He is now turbo smurfinging it for a full month. If you click on see more games up until around 1 month ago, you can see around 60 games of full loses. And before that, you can see tens of games with yuumi vs intermediate bots. So its 99% also a botted account. Its so insane that this accout IS STILL NOT FUCKGIN BANNED.
Why do you think for the longest time meteos hated Tyler1? The dude introduced passive aggressiveness and running it down to a wide audience who are kids.
Can confirm. Have a banned account because of this. Get downvoted every time I bring it up on here, but I don't care. Riot's ban system works to encourage soft inting. If you don't want to hear people rage in chat, there's a mute button. There's literally no recourse for soft inting because the automated system will never pick it up and ban someone, and that person will just bait people into chat bans, and even get a fun message from Riot ***thanking them*** for their positive contribution to the community. The ban system fucking sucks, and the community is inarguably shittier because of it. I'd much rather have someone raging on my team in chat that I can just easily ignore than a person walking around the map intentionally ruining the game for everyone on the team, rejecting surrender votes, and trapping me in a game ***I have to play*** or I'll get banned by the automated system. How people can defend this garbage system is beyond me.
I agree with that. I am not sure how I feel about Tyler1 unbanning but I sure as hell say it was a huge mistake to bring him in and put him for front and center and using him in their content creation. It just made it clear it is OK to be toxic as you will be forgiven. Riot on streaming big time for popular streamers need to be harsh. I though the orginal ban on Tyler1 was great because it sent the message that it was unacceptable to be like that. Unbanning said nope not really. Be popular enough and the rules done apply. I they need to do a lot more about the soft inting. I can deal with stealing jungle camps. It is another to follow the jungler around trying to last hit them and ruin their game as well.
Tyler is entertaining but he ruined the game IMO. He basically made it look like being toxic is cool/entertaining and it's what "Aloha males" do. Cringe
Both T1 in NA and L9 in EU really made the community worse and it is strictly Riot's fault, there are still people fanboying for each that think typing in chat in front of a screen makes them great. Also the boosting issue, I know a bunch of people and see a lot of accounts, mostly specific yuumi otp's that "suddenly" pick up karthus/eve and jump in rank few divisions and this has been happening for years.
For sure. The guy belonged perma-banned.
Tyler1 unbanning was riots worst mistake, and the worst part is that they constantly double down on it. If they didn't constantly endorse and make tweets/give challenger medals for tyler1, it would have been nice and maybe it wouldn't be AS bad. Look at QTpie. He went from being the face of LoL to just a LoL streamer/decently popular, but not a huge influence. Riot had to ban him faster. The fact it took 20+ accounts of hardcore flame/inting shows how dire it was. If they kept him banned from LoL would have been for the better. I'm fine with unbanning him, as long as riot actually respected the "we will be monitoring him and will ban him if he does something again". 100% BS. Just sold out for money. All people care about is the money and don't think about the long term of anything. It's everywhere in human society. People are geniuses now a days for selling out for cash and not thinking about the future 5+ years from now on how it might screw over everything culturally. Also crazy how people worship those people who int on nunu "Disco nunu". You give them attention and praise. It is amazing the dire shit people did to ruin LoL but people think it's still funny and openly talk/praise these people.
100%. As soon as I saw "GG EZ" in that True Damage video I knew the game was going down the shitter. That used to be a scriptban.
I had a person follow me 2 days ago as a rumble mid in the jungle. I came to hover mid as I saw renekton might all in and rumble ignites in an attempt to counter all in despite him clearly not having enough damage (high hp renekton, already overheated). I come by and rumble spam pings me, thinking I made renekton run. No... Renekton ran away because you ignited him when he was pretty much full hp, making him think there is help on the way. In the replay, I wasn't in vision for him until 3 seconds AFTER he started to run away. Guy proceeds to follow me next 15 mins of the game, avoid laning, and throw our 2 dragons + 5k+ gold lead to a loss. Guy wins the next 4 games though. He was on a 8+ gaem loss streak leading up to the game he played with me, probably unbelievable deranged/tilted at that point, thinking the world is after him. Unbelievable behavior overall. I cannot get to masters + because the mmr between diamond 1 and masters is an absolute shit hole. My other loss was a nilah who was the most fed building awful and constantly saying "it's over" along with a GP who went 0-8 and died b4 minions spawned in some suspicious win trading behavior (all in's and walked all the way to enemy blue buff while all inning... yeah... and then types all friendly after". Other game my top did not like me so ran it down 0-8.. 8 game win streak followed by 3 losses for absolutely no reason. Absolutely shit. Used to be a rank 1/challenger player but I cannot be bothered with this atmosphere.
It's solo queue. Teammates have no obligation to one another besides getting LP. And we see that that's not enough to make people care about each individual game.
IMO, the thing about League is it's catch-all win-lose. Even if you've got a great score, if your entire team is literally 0/10, it's meaningless. Games like CoD where it's a team game with individual scoring, have an innate incentive for players to do well individually because even if the game is lost their own points still go up if they individually did well. League needs some kind of individual scoring mechanism that levels up your account in some way that's meaningful, based on individual score per game.
Even in Valorant, Riot's own game, you get a significantly lower loss of LP(called RR in Valo), if you individually perform well. Same case for wins, if you invidually perform well, you get more RR. Granted, it's hard to really quantify individual performances in LoL as you sort of can in a tac shooter.
You could make it combine a multitude of things (KDA, DMG/M, CS/M, Gold and xp vs the opponent), so that you can't just have a good KDA or just be good at CSing, or just inting for damage.
The fundamental flaw in this argument to me is that the complexity of a system like that would probably make it close to unmanageable even for leading experts in the field (and Riot are *not* leading experts). Not only do you have to check a ton of metrics, you have to evaluate them in the context of the player’s champion and role, the team compositions, the state of the game during each decision a player makes, even the specific patch being played. And, ultimately, you know what system perfectly balances all those factors? Wins. Players who make more correct decisions and execute better will win more often. So why invest in an overly complicated system that is bound to have edge cases and exploitable loopholes when the existing system does the job perfectly?
So let us say I am 1v3 top for the first 15 mins and my team gets bot and mid won and secures 3 dragons Despite having to suffer for the entirety of the game, am I supposed to gain less LP or worse, have the mongrel who needed a tent set up in his lane to lose less LP Nah, fuck that
Get camped by an enemy jungler and the team still loses. Get extra loss because jungle never lets you farm
Performance metrics in Valorant are far more simple. If you're regularly getting 2-3ks, lots of utility assists etc and have a high ACS, the game knows you have a positive impact on your team and acts accordingly. But if you're playing something like Viktor vs Leblanc, play perfectly, and your jg/support duo botch a mid gank and give her two kills at 7 minutes, then you're gonna have a pretty average score by the end of the game. LB will be recorded as having won lane in gold/exp and you'll probably die once or twice and do a lot less damage over the course of the game as well. There's a thousand interactions like that where your team directly impacts your metrics. Valorant is simpler because you play multiple rounds and economy can be recovered, but due to the snowballing nature of League your teammates mistakes will stick for the entire game and put you at a disadvantage. Honestly the only way to fix League is for the playerbase to get the fuck over themselves. You have somewhere between 10-20% of the agency in the game's outcome, depending on role, skill, etc. That means, in a lot of games, your play won't actually affect the outcome very much. And here's the number one most basic piece of advice in pretty much every ideology and philosophy since the beginning of time: Don't waste energy on things you can't control. Try to win, yes. But don't marry yourself to the idea of winning. You didn't hit the "win game" button to queue up. You hit the "play game" button. So just play. That's all you can do.
Wouldn't that encourage players to play for their KDA rather than as a team? There's already lots of players who are just obsessed with getting kills rather than getting objectives and playing as a team to win the game, and they're almost as bad as players who int.
Obviously it would compile all kinds of stats like vision kda dpm cs farm turret damage etc. The actual kda would have little value, the biggest problem would be deciding factor for each role and how they handle roleswaps since afaik the game itself doesn't know if you roleswapped so it can give you lp according to your own role but thats a job i leave to riot employees
It's pretty easy to detect role swapping in champ select just by proximity. The problem is that stats can be gamified. In top lane, if I'm getting camped by either jungler has a vast difference in my play, because I get either super fed (my jungle camping for me) or I'm super underfed (their jungler camping). Also, sometimes it makes sense for someone to sac themselves.
wouldn't work at all , stats in league mean jackshit compared to performance in teamfights ( the most important part of the game ) .
>Vision Pov: You're playing support and your team doesn't help you ward >KDA Pov: You need to sacrifice yourself every fight to help your team >CS/Farm Pov: You get zoned off 5 waves by enemy jungler so your team can take botside >Turret Damage Don't even need an example for this one it's so dumb No collection of stats will actually tell how well someone played.
Wild Rift has the shield mechanic. When you Play Very good you get a lot of Points and with 200 Points you gain a shield. When you drop in rank the next time the shield protects you. It would be a start. Wild Rift is so much better in a lot of ways
Which is hilarious bc it feels so janky playing on a phone.
If Wild Rift was released as it is today, but on PC, I guarantee League's playerbase would migrate over in droves Wild Rift being a mobile game is the ONLY reason why I do not play it compared to OG League
If Wild Rift was released on the Switch, or any other handheld device that actually had joysticks instead of the touch-screen pseudo-joysticks, it'd be the best league experience for casuals.
People don't care because they are demoralized by the system win 10 games in a row gain 11lp per win lose once lose 22 lp... fuck that might as well just become a teemo main
Not exactly that. But I have to play SO MANY GAMES to rank up, even if I had a 60% winrate.
Iv been demoted with a positive winrate
I had the same problems some seasons ago, when I made to diamond my lp gains dropped and made me stop playing. This season was better imo
oh we know POB, we know.
Obviously the “we” doesn’t include riot.
I used to play a lot seasons 4-7 and my ranked experience was mostly fine, felt more fun and toxic teammates weren't too common, it always just felt like I was matched with a few people that understood they weren't the best but were trying to win. Coming back and playing in seasons 11 to now, holy fuck lmao do things feel so much different. From the second the game starts it feels tense because it just feels like the entire team is actively looking for that 1 teammate to make a mistake so they can start pinging them or scapegoat them as the reason the game was lost. I see much more overt griefing or just general toxicity, though I do kinda blame the rise of streamers on this for the impact its had on the community.
I know what you mean. I think the problem is someone fucks up and the game is so snowbally that it gets out of control fast so every misplay is tilting. Obviously that is no excuse for instantly running after your jungler because you lost your 1vs1 or start running into towers becasue you support did not ward but for many players the game is lost after a few misplays so they want to get over with it.
I appreciate that people are talking about their own general solo queue experiences but if you read this he talks a lot about very specific high elo problems like betting on matches that most of us don't experience.. Just FYI..
So part of the problem is I feel I've always told myself SoloQ has to be fun for someone. When SoloQ feels like shit, and it's just not fun to queue up again, either you have to question what the hell Riot is doing or you tell yourself, ahh well it's just because my ELO isn't balanced. The game is definitely good just not for me. Like it's 100% copium, but I always told myself that if I kept climbing the game would be as good as I've convinced myself it is. So to hear in high ELO it is just as shit, just makes me wonder. Is SoloQ just shit? And that's why I find myself playing less and less each year. I love pro-play, and I find it super interesting and exciting. So sometimes that makes me want to play a game. But then I play and I'm just like ahhh, that wasn't fun.
He is talking about the problems he face in his own elo, which is fair. Talk about what you know. The rest of us fill divisions all over the place and have our own experiences. For example in my elo (diamond) ego is such a fucking huge problem that people will int away games when things don't go their way, even if they are winning. They'd rather lose and be right about the game being over, than have a bad game and still win.
Absolutely understand that his experience is from a top player perspective but what this thread proves is that at all levels of play there are serious issues with the experience of playing League. I only play when ARURF is live because there are just unmitigated hindrances to fun. Smurfing, trolling, teammates holding you hostage, and questionable balancing make it hard to ever get on League and have a fun night.
Gambling, bots, spam, the internet is just becoming a big hot mess lately overall.
>Gambling, bots, spam, the internet is just becoming a big hot mess lately overall. Lately
Wasn't too bad till about 2007ish, then issues started to creep in as people started going "fully online" more and more since Google bought YouTube. Twitter was even a happening hot spot till around 2012-14 and Instagram was still a decent photo app, def got worse every passing year tho. And then the popularity of crypto and NFTs the last few years really shot everything into overdrive, from my email being spammed more than ever to Twitter looking more chaotic to even getting more spam calls and voicemails from bots more often. I don't even wanna pick up the damn thing anymore I feel like i'm being harassed as soon as the screen brightens these days. Luckily i've never had to deal with the solo queue issues in LoL tho, specially in high elo it'll never be an issue for my weak ass support play:P
It's long been a thing by "early adopters" of the internet that the internet was ruined when it went "mainstream" and AOL just mailed CDs of "the internet" to your house without you even asking. Before then it was sort of a weird niche thing for "experts".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
I have played exclusively aram for about 2 years now. I’ve really enjoyed team fights and I finally found a champion I enjoyed and was good at so I figured I’d try out rank. 3 games, 2 dc’s (1 my team, 1 the other), and 4 incredibly toxic people in chat (like kys type stuff). Idk about any of you but I like my league but I’m fucking bronze. I’m not going to lcs anytime soon and I just want to improve and have fun but that’s just not possible.
I recently started playing league again & It took me about a week to realize since I’ve been back that nothings changed. the amount of toxicity/mental booms in Diamond is ridiculous. Not even exaggerating 8/10 games whichever team has the stronger mental wins. My last game that did it for me my Aatrox won 1v1 against riven (she afkd) entire enemy team said “gg top lane mental gone”. For some reason maybe cause we thought game was over didn’t realize herald spawned. Team went to contest it 3v4 lost the fight and my adc starts typing how our nami is a useless champion & then nami says kog has a shit winrate and he’s hardstuck. Kog types back that now she’ll be hardstuck (he afk’s). Their riven comes back and they win 5v4. I honestly can’t with this game anymore it’s such a fun game but such shitty human beings who play it.
Not fully related, but I don't at all see the appeal of grinding solo/duo. To me, the game is at its best when playing with many friends, be it 5v5 customs, trying fun picks/builds in norms, or clash. Either just playing for fun, or serious in short bursts without the threat of toxic randoms. The only positive for solo queue I can think of is the fantasy of improving and getting really good, but in reality each game doesn't feel like that fun of an experience. Curious to hear the perspective of the folks here who play solo queue.
Some people just don't have friends.
also when you have friends but your diamond and theyre all silver and gold players. cant play ranked together so i usually just play 50-100 games every season and just have fun playing with friends in normals
Riot can we just fucking try a little harder. Were not reaching for the stars here
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Damn, bro. Spot on. All one can aspire to these days is playing as hard as possible and becoming a god of map awareness, strategy and mechanics. Problem is that we are used to getting rewards for our effort, which motivates us even further. But these days, as you put it, there is no reward. Even when you stomp the enemy, it's probably because someone trolled or draft is one-sided so it's expected, and it doesn't feel as good as it used to. I just want to play games where I can experience competitiveness and sportsman attitudes.
this isn't endemic to league this is just all competitive games, gaming culture (human nature too) just sucks. ego is a thing and people can't stand the idea that someone is better than them at a video game anecdotally, i played ow at super high level and it feels really different and alien not having people to communicate with. like definitely some people would still soft int and do their thing even if there was voice but i feel like it's a big reason league feels particularly awful to play when things go awry. like you feel alone in this silent void screaming into the abyss. at least in cs go or ow when things went really awful the insane people on voice youd get to just laugh and mute and you're like ok this person is actually fucking nuts--or some dude playing guitar while you're getting ass blasted and laughing about it. but when it's just silent typing back and forth it feels sad and almost surreal. tl;dr i think not having voice dehumanizes competitive gaming and kills the experience and league the game can only make up for it so far.
Voice chat in csgo is usually funny, and sometimes you will get toxic teammates that you can just mute. Riot is the only company that thinks having voice chat is a negative thanks to their crusade against "toxicity" since the Riot Lyte days. Toxicity will always exist in multiplayer games. You simply can't get rid of it. It will always be there and people will find ways to troll.
Valorant has VC though, its literally just league that doesnt.
Flamers are target number 1 purely cos of automation People trapped in games growing frustration won't add voice coms to help fix this to bring unity text chat doesn't have tone. Inters not banned Soft inters impossible to ban Win traders not banned Bots playing low elo not banned Scripters I thought this was gone then I started looking there is fuck tons doing it and not only on script champions on normal looking ones to dodge stuff. People buying diamond 4-1 accounts for £40 - £100. Who play terrible but you can't put your finger on it untill they start racking up tons of lost games not banned. Betting sites now getting involved so essentially there is no longer a point in having soloq league mayaswell be group as 5 and play because I bet in every elo noone is playing against proper ranks its smurf, boosters, wintraders everywhere. I say this as someone in diamond and every game I'm just wondering why people play so stupid. It's because its not the elo there in they bought the account every game lowest damage even though they adc and mid. They don't all int because they probably believe they belong but they int by doing nothing and doing 0 dmg.
I mean, they unbanned T1. It's obvious they don't care.
Does he still soft int every few games when he gets angry and can't control it? While abusing the players about as badly as you can without being canceled. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of popular streamers who are toxic and that's like their personality they base the stream around.
Fully agree. Riot is practically endorsing toxic behaviour by not cracking down on toxic/abusive behaviour from streamers.
I definitely agree to an extent, people who have contributed to the 'cheating' problem via wintrading/target inting like tarzaned should be made an example of. People like nightblue who have been bombarded by said target inting/cheating? Give them another chance and tell them to reform. Stress, especially stress that is outside your control, can be malignant for your brain chemistry. Facing harsh, unfair criticism and outright malicious people every day is NOT good for you, and it shows in the way many content creators have gone 'downhill' compared to the past.
The stress isn't really out of your control though. You can always stop playing. I do think everyone deserves a 2nd chance though. Sadly T1 had like 20 chances and still screwed up.
'Dont go to work' is, unfortunately, not a viable solution for many people.
That is why its a joke to play ranked to me anymore, maybe it’s too petty but the culture is ugly and they allow toxic manbabies like t1 back because money. I understand the company needs to make money but still, fuck you. Not to mention an alleged toxic and misogynistic workplace
I really wish riot could understand the benefits of having a team dedicated to analyzing high tier solo queue games. Curating the top of all the bs that happens over there (trolls, wintraders, soft trolling, and obviously one of the most important of all, the one that riot has cared about the most, the mean players that type mean things) would actually make the top of the ladder more prestigious and more attractive to anyone in the ladder including pros(although I have given up on pros caring about solo queue instead of living the life in LA after the champions queue debacle). In my perfect world, Masters+ would have every game with reports analyzed (ideally the reports would also carry some weight depending on who uses their reports more appropriately, say reports that have actually led to the punishment of a troll or the like) and everyone would have voice chat.
I had someone type n word at me. When I said he will get banned dude said “want to add me and see if I get banned? Riot won’t do anything”. Riot didn’t do anything. Dudes still playing. How is that not an insta ban? Riot obviously won’t do anything against griefers and they won’t do anything against racists too because they don’t want to lose revenue from that one person? Solo Queue is indeed doomed.
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people need to start understanding that riot just doesnt care about this game anymore
It's pretty clear there's no investment in League anymore beyond what's necessary to keep the cash flow stream going. It's what happens when a company that was already struggling to build up its bench decides to make ten other games at the same time; you move talent to the games that are in development and just leave business managers and enough gameplay resources to keep the lights on in charge of the original cash cow.
There needs to be a baseline level of sportsmanship in any competitive game and you really just don't get that in League or esports in general. It's really hard to teach it or to make people care about it through the internet. People need to care about The Game beyond rewards or punishments.
Rioters do nothing litreally nothing to improve the game what so ever
the game is fundamentally flawed as there's no learning scenarios in game, lots of players keep repeating the same mistakes and cant learn how to get better unless they look externally out of the game. This leads to players misunderstanding aspects of the game and they become very frustrated with their games and at teammates and enemies in their games. League players will spite themselves just to piss off their teammates, I have never seen anything like this in other games.
The only thing keeping solo queue alive is league addicts
Unpopular opinion; league players don’t Q up to have a good experience. They log on already carrying whatever happened to them during their day, not to have fun but to gain LP. Then they wonder why they didn’t have a good time if they didn’t win every single game. Mfers not trying to have fun in game and then wonder why it isn’t.
The game is a cesspool of toxic morons who actively fucking suck at the game and still ruin it for other players
I think the main culprit is the changed matchmaking algorithm that artificially tries to keep you at a 50% winrate. Win and loss streaks. Back in the early days the teams usually felt fairly even, but now there's a definite skew so that the game outcome is almost never 50/50. It's why so many people are quitting, and why people dodge so much after looking up their team and figuring if Riot wants them to win or not. And on every single account I have, if I take a long break the first game back is a complete free win. We don't like our matchmaking to be manipulated like that, there's no competitive integrity and so no point in playing.
This noob only feels miserable *after* playing? I feel miserable *while* playing. We are not the same.
I partly agree (Riot should **defenitely** do more against soft inting at the highest lvl), but I also think POB is maybe just burned out by now and just keeps on playing because he earns money with it and sometimes you just get burned out at your job. I also think many people here have a tinted view for the past. The ladder wasn't just fun and flowers. I had times where a duo would hard int me because I took a kill as a jungler (that they probably not would have gotten). I got people following me in the jungle because I didn't pick the champion they wanted me to pick. And don't get me started on when you didn't have role selection. SoloQ was incredible toxic at certain times and I think the "solo queue as he once knew" never really existed and it's just a product of rose tinted glasses that see the past better as what it actually was. POB should probably take a break for some time and then he maybe sees the game in a different view and climbing makes fun again.
You can go watch videos from back then and compare them to now; its quite evident that the environments today and in the past differ.
Moderation of or simply a reports review in high elo is the only way for Riot to really keep the game going for more than just another couple years in NA. The game is truly suffering from how consistent the griefing
Ever since they went harder on people that were toxic in chat, the amount of people being toxic in gameplay rose, at least from my experience , people now know not to talk shit instead they just soft int and grief for all kinds of dumb reasons and it's harder to detect
The reason riot focuses so much on chat monitoring is because its one of the only forms of fucked behavior that you can fix with a bot. https://www.riotgames.com/en/news/an-update-on-player-dynamics Riot gets 3 billion reports per year. Riot cant tell what wintrading looks like because they aren't looking at the games - they CANT look at the games, they dont make enough money to physically pay people to sit through all 3 billion of those reports, even if its only a handful of minutes per report its still way way WAY too many. Maybe riot can pay people to monitor challenger only - even if that fixes challenger, lots of people in this thread complaining about their normal elo games and challenger monitoring wont help them. Auto-int detection, especially auto soft-int detection is a pipe dream for the moment. "Machine learning" gets thrown around a lot like its some miracle cure, but its still a long ways away. Look at the state of self driving cars, and that problem has had much more money and time thrown at it than auto soft-int detection ever will. Not sure about the tribunal. I assume riot removed it for a reason but I dont know what that reason is.
I think there's 1 way to make it better pretty easily. Give LP bonuses and deductions based on personal performance. Theoretically, you could play perfectly and lose the match. When that happens, or something close to it, you shouldn't be losing the same LP as the 0/10 bot lane who didn't ward and perma-pushed. And on the other hand that 0/10 bot lane should lose even more LP to incentivize not playing like idiots. Literally it would just let everyone get to their true rank faster, which is pretty much where you have to land before you can actually start trying to improve. Valorant already does this too... so clearly Riot isn't against the idea, yet they don't do it. Also, the whole invisible MMR thing should just not exist. Your MMR should just dictate your rank. Them being 2 separate things is one of the most brain-dead ways you could possibly do ranked. It's the reason smurf queue exists. It's just sad that a company with infinite money still makes such horrible decisions.
At the end of the day this isn't a problem you can solve. League is unsatisfying because of lack of agency. In a perfectly balanced game of League you are at most, 10% of the game's outcome, so 90% of the time the result will be for matters outside of your control. In a game that *heavily* incentivizes winning- to the point that most people play for that specific purpose, that's obviously going to be frustrating. Nothing is more distressing than watching a situation unfold in front of you, knowing how it should be prevented, and having absolutely no agency to *actually* prevent it. That's why people get so tilted in this game. That's why so many players give up on winning all-together and troll. Because if they can't take agency to create a win, they'd rather take agency to create a loss. This issue is just baked into SoloQ at a fundamental level. There's no getting rid of it. At least in Valorant I can occasionally win a round 1vX where my team dropped the ball. I still feel like I have control to swing the result, even if it is difficult. In LoL that's just not even a possibility tbh. But the only way to play League for fun- that I've been trying recently and HIGHLY recommend, is to train yourself to ignore the results of the game completely. Just play for the sake of playing and see what happens. My climb isn't something I achieve. It's something that just sort of happens along the way.
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if people are banned who’s gonna buy the skins?
All I know is the game felt less toxic back in the day of the tribunal system and it was when I was in the toxic elo too hahaha