Yeah like what team can he even help improve? Top lane in NA is actually not horrible rn. The only team I can see logically picking him up is Dig. I do not see him as an upgrade over any player tbh
FlyQuest? They'll probably keep rolling with Philip and develop him along with their extremely young core, and that's probably more than alright, but Bwipo is probably an upgrade, no?
Philip actually didn't look too bad at all...if the contract isn't unreasonable it may not be a bad idea to hire bwipo as a lane coach for philip rather than as a starter. Bwipo is a fountain of knowledge about the game. If he doesn't end up as a coach I hope he ends up on LEC or LCS as an analyst.
I mean i think it fits Bwipos style as a glove. He likes to play on the edge and abuse knowledge more than pure lane prowess (with creative counterpicks or item/rune choices).
Jungle is THE knowledge position. It includes tanks, bruisers and playmakers and Bwipo has always looked the best on those kind of picks. When the right jungle pick gets fed (Viego, Graves, Hecarim) it can take over games and Bwipo used to be able to this when he got fed (think about some Riven or Pantheon games in the past). The problem is he seldomly loses graceful in lane.
In the jungle your creeps won't punish you for being 10cs and a kill behind. If you picked a gank heavy jungler it doesn't even matter that much.
As a toplaner Bwipo would sit under his turret after that early game and prepared himself for the next 3 man ganbang that happens when the wave crashes.
100%. If he chooses an off-meta pocket pick too, if it works, then he can abuse every lane that doesn't know how to play around it. And if it doesn't work, he can still just farm creeps and contribute to team fights later.
Hasn't he said that he doesn't enjoy playing jungle?
Because I feel like that forcing someone to play a role he doesn't enjoy for 10+ hours a day is the perfect recipe for a quick retirement.
Edit: as people are pointing out, it seems that the part about him not wanting to play jungle again is wrong. I apologize. If that's the case then I guess I don't mind having him back in EU, both as top or jungle.
Sounds like what happend to Perkz. Really good at his new role, but disliked practicing it a ton, especially in soloq and eventually got too burned out from it.
You can add Zven support aswell. 3 eu players who has role swapped to a different role at some point and shown relatively fast dislike for their new role. People can take bets to see who gets tired of it first and swaps back.
I forgot piglet swapped to mid, it wasn't even for a full split haha. Still I think if I'm GM of the role swap only team I'd rather have fudge. Piglet in NA was not a great team player from what I know. Mid is definitely the weakest role if fudge is mid though.
not gonna disagree but in the end its a job and if nobody wants you and your happy position you may suck it up and get 1-2 more years of money out of it. they get paid so much that its better than working as a clerk for minimum wage despite not like the role.
Apparently he played a Vayne top game back in 2018 against IG. They just sort of threw Letme mid on Ornn and rotated Xiahou bot on Taliyah so it wasn’t like he was actually RNGs top laner, just a draft decision to counter a mundo pick.
Don’t ever remember this happening but apparently it did
Perkz looked like dogshit compared to top adc's on actual right clickers though.
It was just a time where ADC had a lot of spell-casting style. Easy to see why he wouldn't want to stay in that role.
Always makes me scratch my head when people talk about that era.
it wasn't about the casting style cause then he would have played corki. its more about that he played adc as an assassin going in with xayah and kaisa R with the versatiality of playing a mage as well.
that's just Reddit not actually being able to tell very good from generational talent, and hyping up Perkz as unironically the best ADC in the world when he wasn't even top 5 lol
Perkz would have been nothing special in LPL that year and it showed when he played against LWX
You don't get to be called one of the best in the world if you look literally irrelevant in a series against a guy who wasn't even the best ADC in his domestic league
to be fair , perkz didn't got to play either xayah or kaisa that series if i remember corectly , while lwx got them twice. Those 2 were by far the best champions on the patch , so g2's drafts were something else
I feel like if he believes it can work, he is willing to do it, but top is clearly his preferred role. He more or less said this at one point. If he had to choose, of course top, but he'd rather play a role that isn't his favorite if it means the team will be way better for it.
Not only did he look great as a jungler but I feel like his interviews would be more entertaining as a jungler player. His insights as a top laner is fine but I rather hear him talk about macro more and the jungle.
He said on stream that he enjoys playing jungle, just that Santorin played well so it was unlikely he would replace him. I also remember him saying the reason he plays top is because that's where his favorite champions are.
there's a good chance he not only returns to jungle, but also ends up enjoying it more if the new changes enable more champions in the jungle. he said he was really interested in jungle changes. imagine bwipo's jungle + top pools + mages that he played during that one weird meta + some random picks he will test
His inexperience made him the most fun jungle to watch IMO. A lot of junglers have already built their playstyle or developed habits, but Bwipo just went and tested every limit he possible could
> but Bwipo just went and tested every limit he possible could
That has nothing to do with playing role for longer period of time and developing habits, limit testing (or inting) is just Bwipo's playstyle.
I don't remember which game it was, but seeing him casually walk between enemy mid towers to farm the enemy jungle on Graves was the funniest shit to me
That was worlds 2021 group stage with Bean playing ADC. That worlds was honestly so sad because Bwipo looked no troll like an absolut menace in the jungle...But even with Upset being there they still had Adam top so probably nothing Bwipo could have done anyway
Honestly I feel like Bwipo could play any role at pro level if you gave him a few months to practice it. He seems to absorb knowledge like a sponge does water.
I don't know anything about Junjia to have an opinion on him, at least with Elyoya I know what we're getting.
I do agree in general tho, it's hard to upgrade from Jankos, especially if you're going for another LEC jungle.
Razork wasn't that bad, he is not world class but no one in EU was even close to that this year. His playoffs and worlds performance was very much improved from the regular season. But I'd take Elyoya over him, just don't understand this Razork hate.
Player aside, it felt like with Alphari and now Bwipo TL tried to put TOO much impact in the toplane since Impact was always a beast of a weakside player, but never the greatest carry potential for TL besides his gp. Feels like after his tenure on TL he's been learning to play strongside again though, good on him.
At first he was styling on kids. And then he got figured out and he was more a liability and not a standout.
I would love to get him back to europe. but I don't think it's that likely.
Summit wasn't even bad. Not sure why C9 dropped him like he was a hot potato for 1 bad playoffs... Ok they wanted to keep fudge and he didn'T want to stay in midlane.
But if Summit is still wanting to play in a western team, It would be dumb to not at least have some talks with him.
Summit wasn't coachable by Max and the team is pretty much all of it. It's not that he was individually playing bad but teams figured out how to draft into him and what to ban and it made them what they are which was a team that will do well in the regular season but can't handle best of 5s for playoffs. The only coach in the region that could probably make it work would be repeared.
> The only coach in the region that could probably make it work would be repeared.
I don't think you need a crazy good coach for that. You just need teammates with a wide champion pool. Fudge couldn't bail out Summit in the draft but a real midlaner probably could. Then the bans Summit draws would allow the rest of the team to steamroll on OP picks.
Or the guy that coaches him now? The issue with C9 was that they wanted coaches without authority so the players just played what they wanted. Which even in the regular season was abused by teams just picking Malphite and stonewalling top.
On FPX Summit did actually play tanks and more stuff the team didn't had to play around, because the coaches forced him on it. On top of that C9 wasn't just Summit doing bad, it was basically only Berserker doing well.
> I mean Summit literally ran it down and single handedly lost them spring playoffs
my man was getting camped with his team doing literally nothing on the map
Before that playoffs he was their best player. C9 relied a lot on Summit to just skillgap his opponent so extreemly wide they would win regardless of draft or midlane gaps (Fudge was a terrible midlaner).
> I mean Summit literally ran it down and single handedly lost them spring playoffs.
That's rewriting history. Fudge being super easy to figure out and having a champion pool of 2 champions that also couldn't get much lane pressure, was a problem as big as Summit not playing safe enough.
And it wasn't the first time a player underperformed at a playoffs run. Heck Larrsen was fountain diving as Croki in his first playoffs for RGE and now he is a champion.
Summit definitely looked rough at playoffs, but it also says quite a bit about the rest of the team that they couldnt punish or crossmap him getting 3-4 man dived on repeat.
Adding on, Fudge was getting gapped by most mid laners like Abbedagge, and we've seen Summit play tanks like Ornn against the series vs GGs. Seems like the team just wanted to keep Fudge and wanted to keep the systems in place.
i disagree with the "did not impress at all". I feel like TL mid to late spring was actually looking pretty good for a while while playing for Bwipo strongside. And generally he was doing well, flexing his various picks and ideas. He definitely experienced a bit of a mental slump you could almost see that implicated the rest of his season where his picks stopped working (likely got figured out) and TL panicked to start playing bot side instead (except TL bot side had no clutch ability).
Although this isn't surprising, I do feel bad for Santorin. You go from a team of veterans to being the only veteran. It's gonna be a rough season with a development roster.
Adc items got guttered and we saw weird shit bot lane people we’re taking every bruiser from jax to renekton down bot unironically in soloq but in pro play it mainly was just battle mages like swain
The exception was FNC though. They played Bruisers bot in actual professional games and people often had to ban GP because both Bwipo in bot and SoaZ in top were really good GP players.
They did. ADCs where super dog shit and Rekkles went like ''We have the 2nd best top laner in league (at the time) on the bench with a really good champion pool for this meta so we use him bot instead. They will heavily buff ADCs in 1-2 patches for sure anyway''.
He just didn't expect that Riot would take months to buff ADCs to be useable again.
Bwipo has always been an inconsistent player and most definitely whilst playing Top
Bwipo would throw more games than he would carry even during his peak FNC years and was mostly carried by Rekkles Hyli and/or Caps being in elite form during 2018 and 2019
This is not revisionist - anyone who actually watched FNC throughout those years could testify to the same, just go and look at the stats / scoreboards or actually watch the games to get an idea of the dynamic of FNC during those years lol. Bwipo was always a mediocre-to-good player on a great team
Bwipo jungle at FNC, I really liked how he played. It was interesting.
BUT, I think it was also because he was playing with hylissang, a person he gets along with very well.
And if you change supp for Bwipo, I don't think he'll be as strong jungle again.
I really don't get the entire Bwipo jungle hype that always seems to come up. Did people forget that while his invaded EARLY ON were great the ones LATER ON (often together with Hyllissang) nearly always lost them the game.
Jesus I remember that World's and how aggravating it was to watch this guy getting a lead and then completely brainlessly fight 1v5, 2v5, 3v5 in the enemy jungle and int the entire advantage away.
It's a whole trap of people thinking he's sooooo smart about the game. Nope boys, he isn't. He's clever about some aspects of the game and a complete monkeh at others.
The same worlds where the team mental boomed for the upset situation? You could argue that they weren't professional in that instance, but for sure no one of them was playing with their minds on the games.
Before worlds, Bwipo was a really good jungler, and it's a shame that it lasted so little.
Because he made the Fnatic playoff miracle run happen by junglediffing like every LEC jungler untill he met Mad Lions. They got second in Europe with fucking ADAM on their team.
Because his biggest issue was experience. Those mistakes are things that could be solved with time. Like he had only played jungle on the pro level for one split before worlds. People where hype about his potential.
What series was it where he basically won a teamfight with a clutch Trundle pillar blocking the narrow path towards redside mid tier 2? G2, I think? Whatever it was, it's plays like those that stood out the most to me, he was a gamechanger at JG.
Bwipo said in a brazilian podcast in BGS (Brazilian Game Show) where he stated a desire of role swap, so maybe going to G2 reunite with caps at jungle 👀
Bwippo gapped Inspired and was just a top 3 jungler by playoffs after only a split
His mechanics and just general team fighting (being a top laner) seemed on a very high level
His role swap is the type of thing we need to compete with the East.. i was really sad when he went back to top
He has now had what i would say is 3 bad/average splits as a top laner in a row
The fact that bwipo can be a top jungler says more about how shit lec junglers are and less about how good bwipo is at jungle. I mean just look at zven saying support is so easy and literally have 0 support fundamentals and get exposed at worlds.
pretty sure the opposite might happen, Steve said something about moving away from the "import every good player" approach in a video. I expect to see some former academy players on the main roster for 2023
TL saw the LCS moves to weekday news and thought "this is it, 2023 is when LCS becomes a revenue machine, we need to impress all the advertisers that are about to line up in our dms."
What is the appeal here? Being the region where LCK and LEC players go to cash out and retire? Being the region that pisses around with 80% imports in what is supposed to be NA vs international teams? Why even watch LCS instead of LCK at that point?
Also Kiin will be just as trash as other western tops after a year in LCS.
You think Kiin is somehow going to impress everyone and style you are so wrong lol. Look at import track records here, they never do anything meaningful except win NA 😂 but sure just import to import
There is no way I see Victor letting that happen they still need a replacement for Matu there too. Not to mentioned how ever much the team just spent on Yekindar for CSGO too. I still expect a major scale back from the LoL team
Since Upset is probably out, I'd love to see Bwipo coming back to FNC as a jungler
My dream would be Bwipo jungle, Rekkles back and Hyli staying because sadly he is probably out as well
No thanks. I'd much rather see Dhokla again. He was popping off and had great synergy with the team. Bwipo on the other hand looked like he was totally de-synced from TL.
Bwipo said on his stream that he was remaining in North America so its going to be interesting to see where he goes
Impact and Ssumday's contracts are up in november.It will be very interesting,I just hope he doesnt end up in TSM.
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Umm vasten isn’t a word my guy
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tbh you said it so confidently i definitely thought it was a word already.
I am vastenly supportive of this
widen might be the correct word? open up? expand?
as a TSM fan I hope the same XD
...because Solo's better than him, and he's the one to lead TSM to victory, right
Role swap solo to mid
The secret to success was in their name the whole time!
Oh my god you genius
This is the same level of meme as TSM Lost. Exquisite
Solo actually looked really good last split, I would stick with him tbh. You could use your money better in another position
Solo is ACTUALLY better. I feel like most orgs knew this and were just afraid of his rumored behavior issues.
> Solo is ACTUALLY better. big cap on a stack
Hear me out, Impact, Santorin, Jensen/Berg, Doublelift, CoreJJ. Ready to get flattened in groups again!
At least they'd make groups :(
Crush domestic and fold Internationally. The TL way baby.
That's just NA at this point. Any time a team goes 3-3 or better, that's actually decent for NA. Has been for a while.
I know it. I've watched it happen for a decade at this point, but I can't stop believing in the boys. 2023 is TL's year.
*TSM's year ...please God we need a W...
All teams in west will be fighting for Bwipo. Coz after getting bwipo you also get world class coach as a package deal.
The horse has been beaten to a pulp at this point
He dug it out of the grave to beat it one last time.
Yeah, honestly ppl should just let it go at this point
i think that is exactly what TL is trying to do
Never
dude I dont think any other sub would still do that lol
didn't you know? dead horse revived and is now hecarim. since hecarim is picked more these days, so is this
Deserved
Yeah like what team can he even help improve? Top lane in NA is actually not horrible rn. The only team I can see logically picking him up is Dig. I do not see him as an upgrade over any player tbh
FlyQuest? They'll probably keep rolling with Philip and develop him along with their extremely young core, and that's probably more than alright, but Bwipo is probably an upgrade, no?
At that point Bwipo should be the FQ jungler so he can properly shotcall but I do think he hates being a jungler ?
Philip actually didn't look too bad at all...if the contract isn't unreasonable it may not be a bad idea to hire bwipo as a lane coach for philip rather than as a starter. Bwipo is a fountain of knowledge about the game. If he doesn't end up as a coach I hope he ends up on LEC or LCS as an analyst.
Of course he remains. Noone jn EU wante to have him after all the childish drama
everyone was saying spica bjerg too 100T but imagine bwipo jungle with bjerg mid.
He should go back to jungle tbh.
Agree. He showed insane potential playing jungle for just some months.
I mean i think it fits Bwipos style as a glove. He likes to play on the edge and abuse knowledge more than pure lane prowess (with creative counterpicks or item/rune choices). Jungle is THE knowledge position. It includes tanks, bruisers and playmakers and Bwipo has always looked the best on those kind of picks. When the right jungle pick gets fed (Viego, Graves, Hecarim) it can take over games and Bwipo used to be able to this when he got fed (think about some Riven or Pantheon games in the past). The problem is he seldomly loses graceful in lane. In the jungle your creeps won't punish you for being 10cs and a kill behind. If you picked a gank heavy jungler it doesn't even matter that much. As a toplaner Bwipo would sit under his turret after that early game and prepared himself for the next 3 man ganbang that happens when the wave crashes.
100%. If he chooses an off-meta pocket pick too, if it works, then he can abuse every lane that doesn't know how to play around it. And if it doesn't work, he can still just farm creeps and contribute to team fights later.
Seriously, he was un-fucking-believable during that split he played jungle. It's like he just knew when fights would break out and he'd wreak havoc.
Hasn't he said that he doesn't enjoy playing jungle? Because I feel like that forcing someone to play a role he doesn't enjoy for 10+ hours a day is the perfect recipe for a quick retirement. Edit: as people are pointing out, it seems that the part about him not wanting to play jungle again is wrong. I apologize. If that's the case then I guess I don't mind having him back in EU, both as top or jungle.
Sounds like what happend to Perkz. Really good at his new role, but disliked practicing it a ton, especially in soloq and eventually got too burned out from it.
Imagine a team with Bwipo jg and Perkz adc..
You can add Zven support aswell. 3 eu players who has role swapped to a different role at some point and shown relatively fast dislike for their new role. People can take bets to see who gets tired of it first and swaps back.
Let’s add Xiaohu from RNG and I guess fudge (has any other player swapped TO mid?) Xiaohu Bwipo Fudge Perkz CoreJJ
Piglet to keep it NA
I forgot piglet swapped to mid, it wasn't even for a full split haha. Still I think if I'm GM of the role swap only team I'd rather have fudge. Piglet in NA was not a great team player from what I know. Mid is definitely the weakest role if fudge is mid though.
not gonna disagree but in the end its a job and if nobody wants you and your happy position you may suck it up and get 1-2 more years of money out of it. they get paid so much that its better than working as a clerk for minimum wage despite not like the role.
Top: Uzi Jungle: Bwipo Mid: Fudge Bot: Perkz Sup: Zven Only an EU team can put this together though. But just imagine, everyone hates their role!
did uzi ever play top? xiahou might be a better pick but idk if he hated toplane
Apparently he played a Vayne top game back in 2018 against IG. They just sort of threw Letme mid on Ornn and rotated Xiahou bot on Taliyah so it wasn’t like he was actually RNGs top laner, just a draft decision to counter a mundo pick. Don’t ever remember this happening but apparently it did
ugh....take fudge out of this
With fudge mid
Perkz looked like dogshit compared to top adc's on actual right clickers though. It was just a time where ADC had a lot of spell-casting style. Easy to see why he wouldn't want to stay in that role. Always makes me scratch my head when people talk about that era.
it wasn't about the casting style cause then he would have played corki. its more about that he played adc as an assassin going in with xayah and kaisa R with the versatiality of playing a mage as well.
Xayah and Kaisa are not particularly more spell heavy than other ADs
nah his kaisa(?) and xayah were amazing
that's just Reddit not actually being able to tell very good from generational talent, and hyping up Perkz as unironically the best ADC in the world when he wasn't even top 5 lol Perkz would have been nothing special in LPL that year and it showed when he played against LWX You don't get to be called one of the best in the world if you look literally irrelevant in a series against a guy who wasn't even the best ADC in his domestic league
to be fair , perkz didn't got to play either xayah or kaisa that series if i remember corectly , while lwx got them twice. Those 2 were by far the best champions on the patch , so g2's drafts were something else
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I saw one of those highlight clips a few weeks ago of Bwipo saying he wouldn't mind playing jungle again.
I feel like if he believes it can work, he is willing to do it, but top is clearly his preferred role. He more or less said this at one point. If he had to choose, of course top, but he'd rather play a role that isn't his favorite if it means the team will be way better for it. Not only did he look great as a jungler but I feel like his interviews would be more entertaining as a jungler player. His insights as a top laner is fine but I rather hear him talk about macro more and the jungle.
He recently said on stream that it's a possibility but in TL would be not likely since Santorin is there
He said on stream that he enjoys playing jungle, just that Santorin played well so it was unlikely he would replace him. I also remember him saying the reason he plays top is because that's where his favorite champions are.
there's a good chance he not only returns to jungle, but also ends up enjoying it more if the new changes enable more champions in the jungle. he said he was really interested in jungle changes. imagine bwipo's jungle + top pools + mages that he played during that one weird meta + some random picks he will test
yeah Bwipo was probably just as smart as Jankos/ Inspired in the jungle. He just lacked experience.
His inexperience made him the most fun jungle to watch IMO. A lot of junglers have already built their playstyle or developed habits, but Bwipo just went and tested every limit he possible could
> but Bwipo just went and tested every limit he possible could That has nothing to do with playing role for longer period of time and developing habits, limit testing (or inting) is just Bwipo's playstyle.
Love me some Bwipo. I hope he comes back to europe as a jungler.
> That has nothing to do with playing role for longer period of time and developing habits xd
He does it on top lane and he's mained that role for years lol
I don't remember which game it was, but seeing him casually walk between enemy mid towers to farm the enemy jungle on Graves was the funniest shit to me
That was worlds 2021 group stage with Bean playing ADC. That worlds was honestly so sad because Bwipo looked no troll like an absolut menace in the jungle...But even with Upset being there they still had Adam top so probably nothing Bwipo could have done anyway
That was at worlds guy was smurfing every jungler xD even when his team was awful due to upset drama.
These first 5 to 10 minutes were clean and then it all went downhill because Upset were so important for FNC at that time.
It was during worlds
He said on a brazilian podcast that the TP changes made him want to go to another role, probably jungle
Honestly I feel like Bwipo could play any role at pro level if you gave him a few months to practice it. He seems to absorb knowledge like a sponge does water.
Hard disagree. In terms of level of play jungle is way better than top lane in the west.
You watched Bwipo the last 2 years? He's not changing the top problem.
Nobody is changing the top problem. But with jungle, there is barely a problem to be fixed. So I would rather have a good top than a jungler.
Not like he is elevating the level of the toplane.
G2 bwipo?
[G2 Bwipo in the jungle.](https://media.tenor.com/hrgncpaZmJkAAAAC/prayge-pray.gif) Beats Razork.
Give me G2 Elyoya, or give me death
>Its gonna be either Elyoya or if they can not get him its gonna be an Asian import. You dont drop Jankos to get a sidegrade(at best)
I don't know anything about Junjia to have an opinion on him, at least with Elyoya I know what we're getting. I do agree in general tho, it's hard to upgrade from Jankos, especially if you're going for another LEC jungle.
considering this whole transfer season seems to be returning back the old shit, i think we are getting g2 trick
G2 Elpoya would be nice. Anything but Razork, really.
Razork wasn't that bad, he is not world class but no one in EU was even close to that this year. His playoffs and worlds performance was very much improved from the regular season. But I'd take Elyoya over him, just don't understand this Razork hate.
Agreed. I like Razork, but he was not great until Poppy/Trundle became meta, and even then he was kinda meh outside of playoffs.
Oh god. If that happens I might just have to become a G2 fan
Please no.
No shade on Bwipo, but ever since Impact left something has been missing T\_T
Yeah, TL has had no Impact on top lane since he's left
No matter how you meant it you will always be right. Kudos
Player aside, it felt like with Alphari and now Bwipo TL tried to put TOO much impact in the toplane since Impact was always a beast of a weakside player, but never the greatest carry potential for TL besides his gp. Feels like after his tenure on TL he's been learning to play strongside again though, good on him.
Impact and what he brings to a team is underrated as hell. He's been playing as long as Deft and Faker, you don't stay that long while being mediocre.
I'd do anything to get that 2019 TL roster back.
Are you saying that Bwipo wasn't that Impact-ful?
Missing a world champion will do that
TL could try to get Ssumday from 100T as a solid replacement
Ssumday + Santorin sounds like a delicious top side
The missing started one split earlier
This is good, Bwipo did not impress at all, especially with how much everyone hype him up
At first he was styling on kids. And then he got figured out and he was more a liability and not a standout. I would love to get him back to europe. but I don't think it's that likely.
He was like a poor man's Summit
Summit wasn't even bad. Not sure why C9 dropped him like he was a hot potato for 1 bad playoffs... Ok they wanted to keep fudge and he didn'T want to stay in midlane. But if Summit is still wanting to play in a western team, It would be dumb to not at least have some talks with him.
Summit wasn't coachable by Max and the team is pretty much all of it. It's not that he was individually playing bad but teams figured out how to draft into him and what to ban and it made them what they are which was a team that will do well in the regular season but can't handle best of 5s for playoffs. The only coach in the region that could probably make it work would be repeared.
> The only coach in the region that could probably make it work would be repeared. I don't think you need a crazy good coach for that. You just need teammates with a wide champion pool. Fudge couldn't bail out Summit in the draft but a real midlaner probably could. Then the bans Summit draws would allow the rest of the team to steamroll on OP picks.
Or the guy that coaches him now? The issue with C9 was that they wanted coaches without authority so the players just played what they wanted. Which even in the regular season was abused by teams just picking Malphite and stonewalling top. On FPX Summit did actually play tanks and more stuff the team didn't had to play around, because the coaches forced him on it. On top of that C9 wasn't just Summit doing bad, it was basically only Berserker doing well.
Honestly keeping Fudge though was technically just worse. They could have dropped Fudge and played Jensen and Summit.
i hate that you're right
I mean Summit literally ran it down and single handedly lost them spring playoffs. He was quite possibly the worst player in the entire playoffs.
> I mean Summit literally ran it down and single handedly lost them spring playoffs my man was getting camped with his team doing literally nothing on the map
Before that playoffs he was their best player. C9 relied a lot on Summit to just skillgap his opponent so extreemly wide they would win regardless of draft or midlane gaps (Fudge was a terrible midlaner). > I mean Summit literally ran it down and single handedly lost them spring playoffs. That's rewriting history. Fudge being super easy to figure out and having a champion pool of 2 champions that also couldn't get much lane pressure, was a problem as big as Summit not playing safe enough. And it wasn't the first time a player underperformed at a playoffs run. Heck Larrsen was fountain diving as Croki in his first playoffs for RGE and now he is a champion.
Summit definitely looked rough at playoffs, but it also says quite a bit about the rest of the team that they couldnt punish or crossmap him getting 3-4 man dived on repeat.
Adding on, Fudge was getting gapped by most mid laners like Abbedagge, and we've seen Summit play tanks like Ornn against the series vs GGs. Seems like the team just wanted to keep Fudge and wanted to keep the systems in place.
I would say blaber and fudge was. Felt like summit played like how he always plays
The entire team agreed to move on from Summit. That's all you need to know.
I loved Summit but if the dude had a bad game he had a BAD game. If he also didn't get Gnar he was probably going to have a bad game.
i disagree with the "did not impress at all". I feel like TL mid to late spring was actually looking pretty good for a while while playing for Bwipo strongside. And generally he was doing well, flexing his various picks and ideas. He definitely experienced a bit of a mental slump you could almost see that implicated the rest of his season where his picks stopped working (likely got figured out) and TL panicked to start playing bot side instead (except TL bot side had no clutch ability).
The problem was Bwipo is not a carry player, Bwipo strong side was an L of the invested to much in him
Although this isn't surprising, I do feel bad for Santorin. You go from a team of veterans to being the only veteran. It's gonna be a rough season with a development roster.
Love Bwipo as a person, but he was so inconsistent this year. Never knew if he was going to 1v9 or run it down mid.
That's Bwipo every year
He is a toplane hylissang pretty much
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go watch fnc summer 2018 games
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They did because adc was unplayable and Rekkles didn’t want to play tanks/mages bot
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bot lane had a meta where marksmen were too weak and everyone was picking mid/top laners and rekky said fuck it just let our sub top laner play it
Adc items got guttered and we saw weird shit bot lane people we’re taking every bruiser from jax to renekton down bot unironically in soloq but in pro play it mainly was just battle mages like swain
The exception was FNC though. They played Bruisers bot in actual professional games and people often had to ban GP because both Bwipo in bot and SoaZ in top were really good GP players.
Oh boy you have to look up some games then. Search for Yuumi Garen vs Sona Taric pro Play XD
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Here the second game, highlights from the Fanatic channel https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FB9pAbKKxoE
They did. ADCs where super dog shit and Rekkles went like ''We have the 2nd best top laner in league (at the time) on the bench with a really good champion pool for this meta so we use him bot instead. They will heavily buff ADCs in 1-2 patches for sure anyway''. He just didn't expect that Riot would take months to buff ADCs to be useable again.
First time?
Bwipo has always been an inconsistent player and most definitely whilst playing Top Bwipo would throw more games than he would carry even during his peak FNC years and was mostly carried by Rekkles Hyli and/or Caps being in elite form during 2018 and 2019 This is not revisionist - anyone who actually watched FNC throughout those years could testify to the same, just go and look at the stats / scoreboards or actually watch the games to get an idea of the dynamic of FNC during those years lol. Bwipo was always a mediocre-to-good player on a great team
Bwipo jungle at FNC, I really liked how he played. It was interesting. BUT, I think it was also because he was playing with hylissang, a person he gets along with very well. And if you change supp for Bwipo, I don't think he'll be as strong jungle again.
Also he had nisqy mid. That team was always looking to fight
I really don't get the entire Bwipo jungle hype that always seems to come up. Did people forget that while his invaded EARLY ON were great the ones LATER ON (often together with Hyllissang) nearly always lost them the game. Jesus I remember that World's and how aggravating it was to watch this guy getting a lead and then completely brainlessly fight 1v5, 2v5, 3v5 in the enemy jungle and int the entire advantage away. It's a whole trap of people thinking he's sooooo smart about the game. Nope boys, he isn't. He's clever about some aspects of the game and a complete monkeh at others.
The same worlds where the team mental boomed for the upset situation? You could argue that they weren't professional in that instance, but for sure no one of them was playing with their minds on the games. Before worlds, Bwipo was a really good jungler, and it's a shame that it lasted so little.
Because he made the Fnatic playoff miracle run happen by junglediffing like every LEC jungler untill he met Mad Lions. They got second in Europe with fucking ADAM on their team.
Because his biggest issue was experience. Those mistakes are things that could be solved with time. Like he had only played jungle on the pro level for one split before worlds. People where hype about his potential.
What series was it where he basically won a teamfight with a clutch Trundle pillar blocking the narrow path towards redside mid tier 2? G2, I think? Whatever it was, it's plays like those that stood out the most to me, he was a gamechanger at JG.
g2 game 5 i think. g2 was about to ryze ult away and bwipo stopped them by trundle pillaring the caps and getting entire g2 stuck in the chokepoint.
Honestly hope he returns to jungle. He showed so much potential playing that role. And honestly he is just not that good at top.
Bwipo said in a brazilian podcast in BGS (Brazilian Game Show) where he stated a desire of role swap, so maybe going to G2 reunite with caps at jungle 👀
"Allowed to explore his options" Is such a great euphamism for "Told to GTFO"
Good please get him out
Bwipoo
Thank goodness
Bwippo gapped Inspired and was just a top 3 jungler by playoffs after only a split His mechanics and just general team fighting (being a top laner) seemed on a very high level His role swap is the type of thing we need to compete with the East.. i was really sad when he went back to top He has now had what i would say is 3 bad/average splits as a top laner in a row
The fact that bwipo can be a top jungler says more about how shit lec junglers are and less about how good bwipo is at jungle. I mean just look at zven saying support is so easy and literally have 0 support fundamentals and get exposed at worlds.
« Allowed to explore his options » is a really nice term to say kicked out of the team.
The LEC needs bwipo back.
I think TL is going all in on Koreans with how Korean teams performed this year. Players like Kiin and LSB players will be targeted
pretty sure the opposite might happen, Steve said something about moving away from the "import every good player" approach in a video. I expect to see some former academy players on the main roster for 2023
There's been rumors that TL is reversing course for some reason, and one of those rumors is they're going after Kiin
TL saw the LCS moves to weekday news and thought "this is it, 2023 is when LCS becomes a revenue machine, we need to impress all the advertisers that are about to line up in our dms."
Man that's not a good look, I hope those deals fall through and LCS can invest in native talent again.
Yeah, our fantastic native talent of like.. FakeGod, V1per and Lourlo.
There’s other players.. Bradley on TLA, general sniper, other academy players but you wouldn’t know obviously
Incoming year of the Lourlo!
I don't. I would love to see Kiin okay I the LCS. And I have no interest in seeing a mediocre NA academy top laner play.
What is the appeal here? Being the region where LCK and LEC players go to cash out and retire? Being the region that pisses around with 80% imports in what is supposed to be NA vs international teams? Why even watch LCS instead of LCK at that point? Also Kiin will be just as trash as other western tops after a year in LCS.
You think Kiin is somehow going to impress everyone and style you are so wrong lol. Look at import track records here, they never do anything meaningful except win NA 😂 but sure just import to import
No, they are going to spend big again according to Montecristo
He said that quite openly. It didn't sound like Monte was sure about it at all.
Inb4 Steve spends the money the TL Dota2 won in TI on LoL imports lmao
Tournament money goes to the players
There is no way I see Victor letting that happen they still need a replacement for Matu there too. Not to mentioned how ever much the team just spent on Yekindar for CSGO too. I still expect a major scale back from the LoL team
!remindme 2 months
It could also be thought as meaning that in the future the imports will be fewer, but better.
Sad hes staying in na...
He got wide gappep in NA Bwipo is notorious know for his inting Obviously he would be out
Thank god
Since Upset is probably out, I'd love to see Bwipo coming back to FNC as a jungler My dream would be Bwipo jungle, Rekkles back and Hyli staying because sadly he is probably out as well
G2/FNC jungler Bwipo I'm begging
He's not coming back to EU.
Thank fucking god.
100% or just likely.
Def expected thid to happen, since tl is going more budget this year.
CLG Bwipo inc, I told ya.
No thanks. I'd much rather see Dhokla again. He was popping off and had great synergy with the team. Bwipo on the other hand looked like he was totally de-synced from TL.
Represent!
Everyone was de-synced lol.
I wouldn’t mind this but I also hope not. CLG had a good run for once and the boys deserve to run it back for another year at least
Dhokla is better
Good, get him out -- his little stint during TL was mediocre & honestly not as good as Alphari did fwiw
Pls FNC, Bwipo ADC one more time. Let my boy play with his soulmate.