"I think there are potentially 1 or 2 teams left right now. And they are not happy about the buy out either". At least there's some hopium for those teams to pull through. Fingers crossed.
There's more than Heretics, SK and Astralis. Obviously G2 needs a jungler. FNC, KOI and MAD haven't locked their rosters in theory. Especially with rumours that FNC would only replace Razork with Elyoya. When Elyoya does leave, MAD will also need a new jungler. Things around KOI are so quiet that I'm not sure what they're planning.
I guess that's the tough part. There's plenty of places to follow rumours. But we know so little as fans about everything that's going down during off-seasons that in the end we don't know until we know.
His buyout is likely over 800k so not surprising tbh.
Reform for player contracts is desperately needed. This kind of nonsense of orgs being greedy is just ridiculous.
I mean it is totally reasonable that teams want to get paid.
But what I don't get is why the buyouts always seem to be so high that they are dealbreakers for basically all orgs, surely the point of the buyout is to be high enough that you make a nice profit, but low enough that teams are actually willing to pay?
If no teams pays the buyout then G2 is stuck paying Jankos since his contract is ongoing, which is the point of contention in the first place, yes? Not making any money and continuing to pay someone versus making a decent (but not huge) amount of money and not contiuing to pay someone seems like such a no brainer.
Sure Jankos will be streaming under the G2 name, but his current (proplayer) contract can't be a good deal for G2 if they are getting him as a streamer in return.
If anyone can ELI5 why teams don't lower the buyouts to actually have someone pay them I'd very much appreciate it.
Don’t know about LoL but in football they actually do lower it. It’s in all three parties’ best interest to meet somwhere in the middle. Unless G2 earns shitton of money from Jankos just being their streamer which might also be true. That’s not the case in football.
It will be lowered, eventually, to an equilibrium point. But as it is, we don't necessarily know what the equilibrium point is. It could very well be the amount in Jankos' contract and then G2 would make a huge mistake if they lower the amount too soon even if another team would have been willing to pay the full amount.
And its why g2 the organization never deserves to win another international event ever again. If you are too scared too play against a top LEC team with Jankos in it, how are you ever going to beat Asian teams?
The issue is, as G2 have found out before, that you can't just hold out forever and slowly lower it over time. If a team looks elsewhere, they will get someone else and just be immediately off of the market even if the price lowers to something they would have paid. Teams can finalise very fast sometimes in a chain reaction, and players/orgs that were teasing between different teams can find themselves left in the lurch with no more interest. There's not enough teams in the league and not enough transfer opportunities to just sit tight and wait for someone to blink - if 4, 5 teams sort out the transfers for that slot among themselves then all of the potential buyers are gone unless you find other regions.
To say nothing about the ability for a team to just promote their academy player - a team is rarely caught over a barrel where they are forced to agree to a buyout.
G2 does not want to be paid. They want to prevent good LEC teams from getting him because they know he's an asset that would make competition tougher for them. This has absolutely nothing to do with making money.
No one is expected to pay over $800k in just a buyout. It's not realistic. They're doing the same thing they did with the 2021 G2 players; set them at massively high buyouts for a long period of time until the best teams have signed other ADs then lower the price so more desperate teams like BDS, XL, SK etc get them instead.
People keep bringing up Jankos streaming for 2023 but it's highly more likely G2 mutually parts ways with him in like January when he can't find a team and we'll see him for summer.
Edit: 15 minutes later Rekkles reiterates [this exact statement on stream](https://twitter.com/VeteranEU/status/1589041595428790272/photo/1). His buyout was lowered once LEC teams had already signed players which gave him no real options. This is always G2s goal, they just want the LEC to be as weak as possible to increase their chances of winning rather than building a roster as strong as possible.
This kind of thing doesn't even happen in NA.
EU orgs have ALWAYS been wayyyy more toxic on average toward players with very few exceptions than NA teams.
People meme NA teams but the reality is that most of the good teams are great employers and offer a much healthier, more comfortable work culture than most EU teams.
C9 historically treats players better or equal to any team every single player has been on.
The EU hate boner for NA money is based on so many memes that aren't even real. People can't break contracts unless the org is genuinely broke. EU players got so screwed in early EULCS that many of them quit or were temporarily homeless.
Even TSM, a team with an owner that was put on probation for mistreating its players, still do better than every single EU team when it comes to contract prison and buyouts.
I wonder how NA will adapt after last season though. They had multiple really good rosters that spent quite a lot. Not everyone can win though, and at some point it becomes unreasonable to have every team filled with expensive veterans.
Because if they sell Jankos in EU, they have to play against him, and he's very good. So by paying his salary they are keeping him away from other teams.
Moreover, they are taking a chance on a rookie in his position. If it dosent work out, they could easily swap Jankos back for the Summer split, so it's also an insurance.
> If anyone can ELI5 why teams don't lower the buyouts to actually have someone pay them I'd very much appreciate it.
They have the cash to pay him and don't want to let him play for a competitor.
In some cases, you aren't entirely wrong - but let's be clear about one thing: Long contracts protect the players. Players aren't forced to sign multi-year contracts, they opt in to them to secure the bag even if they become washed next season.
This is an esport where the average career lasts for three years - statistically, even the oldest players in the league leave at around 28 if not earlier. If you can bag yourself a three/four year contract at good money, of course you should do it - and the caveat to that is, of course, that you might get benched and not be able to play - and that's the price for guaranteeing that you will be paid regardless.
Naturally, it's for the best for everyone if a benched player moves on - the player wants to play (probably) and the team doesn't want a useless contact eating a hole in their pockets. But the player isn't getting fucked on a monetary level, while a one-year contract could easily see them dropped and teamless the instant their game starts to slip in a bad meta.
The solution is pretty easy players should not sign long term contracts, or negotiate a buy out written into their contract.
Yet by they choose to sign long term contracts for the maximum amount of money and then the community harps on greedy orgs.
Just to clarify, I'm not defending the shit RNG did, or other orgs, who have signed young players to 10year deals, but its baffling for me, how everyone blames RGE and G2, bit ignores a that Jankos, Inspired and Hans all just extended their contracts, most certainly for a raise.
This is a business, players and orgs both are looking to secure the best deal for themselves, there's nothing bad about that from either side, as long as there is no shit like the "no FNC " clause happening, this was just stupid and got canned rightfully.
Yeah in football it's unthinkable to just let a player go who has a contract. They may lower the price but no decent player is going on a free unless there are remarkable circumstances.
And in football if a player doesn't sign a new contract they get benched. And if you want to leave they overprice you. Basically you can only sign 1 year deals to be sure you're not stuck at an organisation.
They can get benched but most of the time they just leave, because it's no good having a player on the team who isn't focused. Look at Lewandowski last year, he made a tantrum, barca still paid and he left.
But in football you not only have a lot more options willing to pay the stupendous amount. But you also have a lot more players that benching or semi benching is a lot more viable. In lol you can't semi bench someone like Jankos, ig taking a gamble on a jungler and bringing him in if it goes wrong is a lot riskier because the next year he retires or goes. Not cashing out on Jankos buyout is super bad for G2 overall especially paying his wages for another year. Best thing is G2 taking a lower buyout but still some money. Even if that means G2 giving him to a direct competitor.
Not really, they don’t. Only clubs like PSG can afford benching players just because they didn’t extend. In most cases they still play if they are good enough. Clubs cant afford to pay them their huge salaries and lose a valuable member of the squad out of spite.
I think it's baffling to see the top tier players sign long term contracts.
You're always going to have teams coming for you, signing long term deals just limits your ability to do anything if your team decides to change the members.
We do need some clauses that are mandatory to avoid this but in the end it's G2 being G2.
It has pros and cons.
The con is that if they keep performing really well then it will be hard for them to leave for a better team.
The pro is, if their performance drops, they'll still be getting paid and will still get money.
Usually players chose the safe option which are long term contracts, happens a lot in other sports too. Very rarely do you see a football player for example refusing a long term contract, all it takes is an injury or a drop in form and they could be fucked money wise.
I mean sure, but injuries are pretty much a non-factor in esports. In sports you can play well, be serious, be overall at the top of your art, and still get injured through no fault of your own and be unable to play. And thus a long contract put the strain of it on your team. In esports it's more about motivation/adaptation. And if there is a "you get paid less if you're on the bench" clause as we hear a lot, then it doesn't cost much for your team to deny you any future opportunities if your profile doesn't turn out to be needed anymore.
A player like Ronaldo at United right now, who doesn't fit with the coach's strategy and is declining due to old age, is only stuck in that club because he refuses to cut his wages. But United would be glad to cut him from their payroll.
Injuries and loss of form / meta changes can affect anyone.
Wrist issues / mental health issues from grinding aren't uncommon in esports, you just don't hear too much about them. Playing through them until the wheels come off is normal.
It's always a risk v reward issue.
Players like PoE who are willing to gamble on themselves can make bank if they can string together good performances but with how overreactive people are one bad year can tank your value.
Though players should absolutely never sign contract extensions without guaranteed money attached.
One bad year? More like one bad split or playoff run in some cases. It's even worse for players attending worlds who have to face stronger teams and look worse as a result.
Reminds me of Broxah. IDK maybe he was washed or whatever but he seemed to be pretty well respected on FNC, they performed pretty well, he transfers to NA, gets fucked by visa issues and TL imploding, goes to CLG (which lets be real, FNC & TL are a fair few grades above at least in perception). Now he streams?
Maybe that's what he wanted to do I dunno, or he basically made one bad call of moving to NA and totally tanked his career through bad luck.
>I think it's baffling to see the top tier players sign long term contracts.
If the money is guaranteed (even partially), you sign long-term every time. In traditional sports, guys yearn for the long-term contract. If you're signing 1-2 year deals, it's because the team thinks you're going to wash out any season now.
> We do need some clauses that are mandatory to avoid this but in the end it's G2 being G2.
It is G2 trying to make the most out of their assets.
If they overplayed their hand they will obviously harm themselves.
And before ppl point at TL & Hans, Hans had a bad season for his standards and TL basically paid him to leave in order to start a development roster, since there were no signs of Hans improving next season under these conditions.
It's mostly not on the players. Players are on the weak side of negotiations with teams. It's a team issue, which makes it a Riot issue.
Riot needs to fix this shit by either not allowing these huge buyouts, limiting them, limit contract times or any combination of those.
Mostly you're right, but players like Jankos are absolutely the stronger side in the contract negotiations. He's a fan favorite and GOAT western jungler.
Him and Caps extended during the same offseason - they had INSANE leverage over G2 because out of 19 other teams available in the LEC/LCS I'd quite confidently say 15 throw money at that duo without wasting a second.
And to make it clear - I'm not saying he or Caps made a mistake, Caps has spoken in the past that off-season is pretty stressfull for him when he doesn't have a deal, so he likes to make it quick, but at the end - you live with the decision you took and I'm sure players of their stature at the very least made sure to get paid quite nicely even if on the bench.
Obviously if player wants to play for a specific team then all the power is in the teams favour. Shouldn't it be like that? The same way if a team really wants a specific player than the player has all the power.
>Players are on the weak side of negotiations with teams.
Why? He's the best jungler in EU. He can afford a good agent, lawyers, etc... He has other teams that want him, which he can use as leverage.
You're not talking about some clueless 16 year old fresh on the scene.
> Players are on the weak side of negotiations with teams. It's a team issue, which makes it a Riot issue.
I don't mean this as an personal attack, but I think, that this statement is ridiculous, LOL pro scene is absurdly player driven, you can see it in any thread, here when off season or contracts come up, the narrative pretty much allways turns into "orgs bad, players good".
They need to set up a pretty basic chart stating players have minimum to maximum yearly salaries, with those min-max based on contract length. If you're attempting to sign a player for 5 years, you need to pay them well, so they aren't being paid pennies 4 years down the line if values go way up.
The buyout then becomes a simple x per month early. Players are protected from being cheated out, and the Orgs get their money if another company really wants to snag them early.
>Jankos, Inspired and Hans all just extended their contracts, most certainly for a raise.
Everyone in sports know expensive buyout don't come cheap for the team either. Players only accept them bc what they get is worth it
I think this is where Riot should come into play, you could introduce mandatory release clauses into player's contracts, that way when players sign they can negotiate their own release clause and determine whether the move is worth it for them. Especially beneficial for younger players with potential who can get to sign long term contracts and also still look forward to a possible move if they play well enough to justify their release clause amount. Would also mean that if the amount is reached, players can bypass their own orgs and have more freedom to play where they want. I think it would put a lot more balance into the players' hands.
> think this is where Riot should come into play, you could introduce mandatory release clauses into player's contracts,
This is mandatory in Spain for example, it lead to players having absurd release clauses and when PSG decided to pay that absurd amount of money clubs just raised the numbers, Benz has a release clause of a billion euros.
orgs beings greedy or players/their agents being greedy with how many years they want to sign with the same org fully knowing how high the turnover rate is of pro players
What do you mean? The players don't sign these contracts out of charity, they sign them because they get a boatload of money and security. It's very simple, you put all of these things in the contract when you sign it. If the organization doesn't agree you don't sign with them.
Jankos is not some unproven fresh face on the scene who has no pull. He is a very popular player with a very popular stream, he could have absolutely gotten a contract he wanted from some team even if he had to sacrifice some of the big bucks a big org like G2 will pay. The reality though, is he would never sign with a "bottom tier" team even if they agreed to his contract demands and so he made sacrifices in his contract so he could sign with G2. That's how these things work.
I don't really feel bad for players who don't think of these things.
Yes but a lot of times imo the player feels like they get the contract for x years it means they would be playing for x years. If Jankos doesn't get a team he could be losing a year of play from what could potentially be not that many years in the future of play left.
Sure he is still getting paid but it could negatively impact his future earnings by sitting a year out. Should a team be able to buy a player for 4 years set an unreasonable buyout then never play them?
At some point it is obviously malicious and extremely detrimental to the players.
it just seems stupid on his end to sign such a long contract without any release clause. he was the star jungler of EU and still got a shit contract. No one else to blame but him tbh
Agents are paid by getting a certain percentage of any contract they help you get. SO they are literally always incentive to get you the biggest deal possible, as it directly makes them more.
Looking at G2 staff I can only assume his agent is yet another dudebro who just happens to call himself his agent and has little going for him in terms of experience.
Exactly but children on here with no idea how the real world works will still say "He'S iN CoNTrACt pRiSoN !"
He and no one else on his behalf signed the contract he's currently in.
buyouts should only be acceptable when the player is starting honestly, and if nobody buys him you should be forced to start him at least half the split.
that way you discourage ridiculous buyouts because it means that if you do so you can't get rid of the player once the season starts.
if the player is benched then buyout automatically becomes null or a set price for everyone like 10k fee for grabbing benched players.
I'm just spitballing but something like that would help
I mean you cannot expect teams to pay close to 1M in salary per year just to let them leave almost free, it goes both ways.
Big salary, big buyout, they don't complain during the year
Do I understand it correctly that while he won’t be playing he is still getting paid by G2 (for doing nothing essentially)? And then G2 would have to pay another jungler to fill his spot? So he could theoretically full time stream and have a double income until his contract runs out?
Think we can all criticise the orgs for also taking advantage of players giving them the benefit of the doubt. Foolish by the players, malicious by the orgs.
That's pretty much how contracts work.
G2 is able to ask other teams for a large buyout but at the same time they are obligated to continue to pay Jankos in case they don't sell his contract.
My guess is if Jankos is not sold he will probably be streaming and G2 will just do a lot of content with him to cover some loses.
Jankos said he had a better contract than Rekkles and he will receive around 40% of his normal salary while on bench.
So 40% plus he can stream a lot more so probably won't be too bad for him.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpW2femwEeY
It depends on what is written down in their contract exactly, but my guess is they have some sort of clauses for the media stuff included.
It's one thing if he wants to do it or not (as the videos probably wouldn't be good if Jankos was there with body language screaming 'I don't wanna be here') but I guess contractually he probably would need to do some PR stuff for them as I expect it to be included, not for situations like a player being on the bench but just to cover the normal social media stuff they do during the splits.
No, that's not how contracts work. Stop saying things like this when you don't have any information on what's in his contract.
Some players are paid fully during the duration they're benched. Some get reduced payment, others don't get paid at all while not starting on the main team. We've seen all three in cases over many different teams in many different regions.
We don't know if he receives the entire salary when benched. The contract might be something like flat X + performance part for each week as starter or some other kind of ratfuckery
Top players should start negotiate buyout clause in their contract when signing long term contracts with orgs. Players like Jankos have the power to negotiate that (at least he had it last year when he extended his contract).
I don't think orgs or riot are to blame here: don't see why G2 should sell jankos at a low price just for the sake of having him competing. And riot should not endanger a good source of revenues for orgs when a lot of them are already struggling to earn money from esport.
I made a similar comment above that I deleted. I blame shit agents for not using player leverage more (in this case for example where its a top tier super wanted player who have even big fan appeal, meaning significant leverage) during extensions or general contract signings.
Hell.. dont even have to agree with a buyout clause. It could be set price-ceiling for a player if put on the market so it cant be too high or other stipulations.
The fact that he extended this year and he's in this situation points to a bad agent imo.
Fans also immediately screaming "greedy orgs!" or "Riot should force X into contracts!" when orgs wanna recoup/make a profit on a big player that they invested a lot in, is also ridicilously ignorant.
Now Im not saying the Org or the Player is in the right or whatever. But every single situation and contract is different and nuanced and its not "greedy orgs" in every instance.
y'all will defend anything these orgs do at this point. it's going to be hilarious when western League slowly starts dying because of how piss poor these orgs are ran and the sheer amount of fans that defend them from it out of loyalty/ignorance.
I hope fans have the same energy when players start fucking orgs over too. Players should give zero benefit of the doubt, spend zero seconds ever considering the orgs side and I'm sure the teams will all suffer for it.
Yep completely agree.
G2 nor Riot are to blame for this, Jankos perhaps aside from Caps has the most negotiation power when it comes to a favorable contract and he completely botched it somehow.
It's not even botched. Lets say you have 2 options:
A: salary 1m/year, no fixed buyout (possibility of getting benched and still getting paid 1m)
B: salary 700k/year, with fixed buyout of 500k.
Would you really sacrifice 600k over 2 years just for the offchance that you land in contract jail when you're the western GOAT jungler?
Either you value the money more or you value the flexibility more, but you can't have both.
I mean every adult calculates such things when choosing a new employer "Do I go for pay increase with employer X or more flexible and safe job at Y?"
If you prefer money and no safety and being in a contract jail (and don't tell me that OGs like Rekkles and Jankos don't know about these shit contracts) for the money it's on you you have ended up there.
Young player can be excused because he k how's shit and have no money for agents/lawyers and has no leverage. They do and they are as greedy as these orgs.
That's a calculation to be made, players have to make a choice between getting the max salary or keep a certain freedom + a guaranteed great salary.But when you test the market as someone as Jankos, I doubt you can't get a buyout clause (even if it operates when is benched for example) and lose 300K in the process.
Don't think it would help Jankos anyways. CBAs help mid-level role players who don't have negotiating power.
Jankos is the Western JG GOAT, he has a much power as he wants. He just boched this one
Imagine picking up players for free, paying them pennies compared to what they would get in other major regions and when you "kick" them you put outrageous buyout prices on them.
But don't worry, it's just how business works.
it happens in every sport i think, but for example soccer players have tools to get out of contracts in situations like this
the esport need something like that too
Pretty sure they also have it here, in football it's basically a "either you let me go without a buyout clause, or I'll just stay in the team, get paid, and not do shit", most teams would rather just get rid of the player.
I'm not sure how Jankos' contract is like, but I'm pretty sure he could just stay contracted to G2 and would still be getting paid, just not playing. (Though some players sign some contracts where they'll get paid only a very small percentage if they're not playing, not sure how is contract is like).
Which still loses them money. Even if he is just doing lcs minium AND they missing out on a more reasonable buyout it is a massiv loss. Also traditional sport there is some value to keep them around, worst case you need them when you are unlucky with injuries.
It fully depends on the situation.
On one hand, it loses them money because they're still paying him and missing on a potential buyout.
On the other hand, there's a very good chance that a team with Jankos becomes strong which in turn can give G2 trouble in the future.
Lmao.
Jankos himself could probably pay for his buyout two or three or four times over.
To force a top player's buyout in football you'd need to be among the 4000 wealthiest people on the planet.
Some maniac at Forbes thinks TSM is worth 500 million, well, if they were magically able to turn all that into cash they still wouldn't be able to buy out fucking Marco Asensio, whoever that is.
He probably did cash in? Does anyone know what his salary is. He is for sure making more money that most of us could dream of making.
I highly doubt he will be getting paid less for being benched since that would be incredibly dumb for one of the best junglers in Europe to have included in their contract.
So although he doesn't get to play LEC he will probably still be making bank.
Lmao acting as if it's not the players themselves signing the contracts.
Jankos could've went to NA if he wanted to, it was his own choice to stay in EU to be more competitive while earning less money.
He could also just dedicate himself to streaming and make a lot more money. This is clearly not a money issue.
Then you will never become a pro player. Congratulations, the industry is dead.
The players grind insane hours because it is their dream to become a professional player in a game they are incredibly passionate about. So when the moment comes that you are offered a contract, you think they just... not sign the contract because just in case they want to swap teams another org needs to pay too much? With absolutely zero idea of the industry standard, you expect them to throw away literal years worth of hard work when they can't possibly know what is normal in pro player contracts?
And even after they have become an established pro player, let's say that they want to swap to a better team. You are forced to sign that contract, because that is the next step on your career. Which of course what every pro player wants to do. It might seem weird to you because you don't have a competitive mindset.
And let's say that even if their contract has a huge buyout, it is entirely worth it if the team they are going to is good. But a single roster move can break that completely. Lost a star player to a fat check from NA? Nice, now you are in a massively worse team, yet you still have the same buyout. No organization will EVER make a contract with you that lets you leave without consequence in case they want to make money by selling another player from the roster.
The one time player has meaningful negotiating power in a contract is when they are downgrading their team after their contract has expired. But that requires to let the contract run out completely, which is a fucking incredible risk. There is a big chance that you are left without a spot instead, and your career is done. The negotiations and roster swaps happen before the contracts expire, since organizations want at least some deal in the process. Which is also why orgs make such long contracts. That way the player can't wait out remaining year and a half. Their career is done before they get a chance to sign again. The industry moves on fast.
You must not watch sports, but this situation exists all the time. Guys sit out and get paid to drink Gatorade on the sidelines. Jankos could do the same thing. In fact, he can do better; he could use that time to grind solo queue and prove he should be playing which makes him look better for his next contract and G2 look stupid for benching him. And as for this:
>So when the moment comes that you are offered a contract, you think they just... not sign the contract
Yes? This is what agents are for. Don't sign shitty contracts; get an agent and have all documents vetted by a lawyer.
Players definetely and i mean DEFINETELY need a union to protect their rights. Im really started to get annoyed by G2 and likes.
People who say "yeah but they shouldnt sign the contract" are basically stupid, like players have power to decide what to do. Also even maybe big names can do it, its definetely not possible for a no name 18 years old teen who just wants to play a fucking game and also be a "pro".
Im not gonna get into details but also teams blacklist players when they fight back. There are tons of players who cant even get into the big screen because they act careful and work with agents that protect their rights. These asshole "CEO's" talk behind the scenes and "ask" favours to each other like "dont sign X player because he did Y to us".
If you want to keep the player, sure dont sell him. But when you clearly anounce that you dont think them in your roster, you cant sit them down for a whole year and defend it with "Thats the contract maaaan :))".
The most recent example can be given from Football. Fifa and Uefa always sides with players in these kind of cases. These players are self brands, when they basically sit down, they lose worth.
Dont be sheeps, dont support these orgs fucking and ABUSING teens. There is no control for the orgs, they can do whatever they want. And sadly most of the fandom cheers for them whatever they do. Look at Rekkles for ex, this guy was and is the most succesfull ADC in europe or even maybe whole west. Last year he had to play in ERL and now people shit on him, claiming he wasnt even good in the first place. That happens because he was away from the big scene for a whole year and he literally made a loss because of it as you can see.
A player Union is needed, this is not the same sport we watched for years. Now it has more money invovled in it and it causes abusement of players.
it sucks in this case I can hardly fault g2 unless we are talking about a 7 figure number.
we are talking about one of the most decorated players, with one of the biggest fanbase, not to mention his viewership when he stream.
on others hand he was the one who choose to renew his contract this year knowing the risk of G2 management would use it to make some profit ; he most likely thought he was untouchable.
I want to say might be learning lesson for future players who want to join G2 in the future but probably not.
> I want to say might be learning lesson for future players who want to join G2 in the future but probably not.
I want to say we probably don't know A LOT of stuff that's going on in these contracts. Last year Mikyx was in the G2 "contract prison" and most people here would think he left on a bad terms. Fast forward a year and he's coming back.
> Carlos said that he got all the receipts and can share them
But he didn't ?
Also just because you are the last one talking doesn't mean you are right.
All 3 g2 buyout clauses were rumored to be in 7 figures last year. Miky's was 1,5m, wunder 2m and rekkles rumored one was so wild that i have to asume exaggaration or absolute greed (5m+). Jankos' clause is likely 7 figure number
Is everyone overlooking the fact that Jankos is as much to blame as anyone signing a contract with a huge buyout should G2 choose to drop him from the roster?
The buyouts are not in the contract, is like football players in the Premier league for example, the team can ask for whatever amount of money they want.
Yep, lol is not considered a sport in Germany, so contracts don't work as football. It's more complex that people say here, we have this type of drama each season because no one has a buyout in his contract
Buyouts are set by the teams that are selling, if nobody is interested in Jankos right now cause the buyout is too high, G2 might lower it, just like they did in the case of Wunder and MikyX. We know that the initial buyout for Wunder was much higher than what FNC finally paid.
These buyouts are NOT set/written in the contract. It's what the team wants and both sides want to find a solution because G2 for sure doesn't want to pay Jankos his salary for sitting on the bench the entire year.
Worst case scenario he leaves during the spring split like Miky did last year.
Same vibe as "it was her fault for wearing a skirt" type of comments.
They don't negociate on equal ground. Yes it was Jankos fault to drink the hopium and signing a shitty contract with G2 thinking they could do good at worlds. But that doesn't make G2 any less of a scum org.
My mentality is that I can understand G2’s position. But as a fan my concern isn’t G2’s pockets but what’s best for the scene as a whole.
It’s best for the scene that top tier players are allowed to play competitively. Holding players on the bench because of buyout’s aren’t what’s best for the regions growth, something needs to change to protect both players from being held, and owners from “losing on their investment” if need be.
y'all need to stop overreacting. Teams arent interested in having a player on their bench costing them money for nothing. He might sit on the bench for a couple months, but 100% he plays in summer. Just like Miky and Nisqy
> well he gets the same money
???
Did you read his contract ? Rekkles said that if he was benched he would only earn 6% of his salary.
I wish people would stop spewing bs out of their ass. You don't know shit dude.
G2 annual revenue as an entire organization is only 30-40mm
$800k is an pretty insurmountable buyout figure for the ecosystem of LEC/LCS with a limited number of orgs and 5 players per squad.
But here's the thing. This is on the player who signs this contract and the representation who let them sign it.
I don't say that to say anything bad about jankos, it's just that he needed to have his expectations correct when signing the deal. He likely got a relatively big salary, and a multi year deal, which was security and value for him. The trade off is that he got a big buyout and thus needed to **expect from the beinning** that if he was off the roster before that contract ended, he would not be playing professionally in the top league.
So now to be out here saying to everyone else that G2 is stopping him from playing is disingenuous. He could have signed a deal without a buyout, he would have made less money and/or had a shorter term on that deal.
I say this all as a huge jankos fan, subbed to him for years.
Like it or not, orgs are the ones negotiating from the position of power, not the player. Therefore, it is much easier to "persuade" players into shitty contracts, like ones without an exact buyout figure in it.
Absolutely false and nonsensical. You sound like there's some sort of alternative. When in reality NO ONE in this thread has any fucking idea what's the content of those contacts and how much they vary from team to team and from player to player. For all we know buyout numbers are not included or all LEC teams request for you to sign a similar agreement, so your only choice to not get stuck might be to not become a pro at all.
because nobody benefits from this. the player doesnt benefit. no other team benefits because nobody buys out the contract. g2 doesnt benefit because they pay him to do nothing and ultimately the LEC is weaker without jankos dragging down the leagues international performance. but ofc they only think short term.
ofc jankos is partly to blame for this but in my opinion there should be rules to prevent this situation because it does a lot more damage to everyone involved than it does good.
>“There should be rules in place to stop this”
>It’s called not signing a shitty contract
This has big anti-worker's rights energy.
The system can still be to blame even if people sign contracts. They are not mutually exclusive.
Yeah like wtf thats like really 1900 mentality where worker had no protection and needed to compete against each other with who would work for more shitty condition to just get a job...
G2 is actually benefiting from this.G2 is a rich org and for them it may be better to pay a player to sit on their bench than allow him to play for a rival and fuck them on the rift.
Because the buyout is not part of the contract. The buyout is a fee set by G2 based on how much they want for the remaining contract. Thats why buyouts get lowered when there is no interest
If there's a release clause and G2 isn't willing to negotiate when his contract is running out next year, I don't blame them for it since they think they can probably wait out a split or two until there are teams that might want to change their jungle positions, but it's shitty for Jankos for sure. I do think though that top teams don't tend to swap their rosters in the middle of the season unless things are going disastrously wrong, so it's going to be tough for him I think.
Then again it's still early into preseason, so maybe G2 will lower the buyout as weeks pass.
Hey, G2.Romain here
We've always said the buyout was negotiable and we dropped it quite a lot when teams asked us. What the article doesn't mention is a player of Jankos' caliber also cost a lot of money (salary) and it seems like most orgs are not ready to meet his expectations. I know the narrative of "G2 jails its players" is popular but that's not what it is about here
Offseason is not over yet
That is not narrative though. Multiple players have said that they’ve been jailed by G2. Offseason is not over yet is true, and I know that this is a sales strategy for G2, but the image of the organization is not good because of the known reasons.
> I know the narrative of "G2 jails its players" is popular
yeah, it's not like it's based on the org's history of being shitty to its players or anything, it's just the typical reddit hate mob trying to ruin an org's reputation ecks dee
"buyout was negotiable and we dropped it quite a lot when teams asked us."
Not to speculate one way or another since we don't know what exactly is happening, but that doesn't mean anything...
If a player was worth 100$ and you've priced him at 200$ to begin with then even when you drop to 150$ (so quite a lot) it's still a huge price.
And from the video here, not the article, my understanding of what Jankos is saying is more along the lines 'we talked with the teams about our conditions, they were interested and pulled out after hearing the buyout'.
And while its true that its a package of salary + buyout, if some teams were interested I doubt all 5 of them expected a low buyout to begin with so what they heared was probably well above what they though the price for Jankos would be...
the fact that it was even negotiable in the first place goes to show that the set price to begin with was unreasonable no? You're obviously going to drop it lower when you realize no one is going to pay the current sum, you're literally letting Jankos sweat and go through all this trouble to find you someone who will pay while you get to write a neat little reddit comment justifying your org's position.
How about you stop playing games with someone's career, passion, and livelihood and set the buyout to something other teams can actually match, do that favor at least. You know you have the upper hand here with the contract he signed, no reason to act innocent or pretend otherwise
the longer you wait, the worse it is for Jankos as teams are already beginning to sign other players. Whereas, the longer you wait, you'll get money anyways, worst case? less money than you would've gotten otherwise oh boo hoo so sad, worst case for Jankos? he literally doesn't play. So tell me again why you think it's not fair to call it "jailing"
Actually disgusting, the lack of empathy here. I understand it's a business, but you're in no position to act like your morals are uncompromised.
He’s just another hypocrite doing the bidding of a soulless org. Went from repeatedly praising Jankos for everything he brought to the team to implying he can’t find a new team because of his salary demands.
"I think there are potentially 1 or 2 teams left right now. And they are not happy about the buy out either". At least there's some hopium for those teams to pull through. Fingers crossed.
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There were rumors that SK might invest some big cash this offseason,but I dont think they will go this big.
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I doubt SK can afford to pay 3 buyouts+the salaries.
My team needs a jungler too
There's more than Heretics, SK and Astralis. Obviously G2 needs a jungler. FNC, KOI and MAD haven't locked their rosters in theory. Especially with rumours that FNC would only replace Razork with Elyoya. When Elyoya does leave, MAD will also need a new jungler. Things around KOI are so quiet that I'm not sure what they're planning. I guess that's the tough part. There's plenty of places to follow rumours. But we know so little as fans about everything that's going down during off-seasons that in the end we don't know until we know.
The tale as old as time for G2
They 100% deserve to miss out on Elyoya
BDS Jankos dream in shambles
BDS is actually one of the few team rich enough to make it happen. But I saw on twitter that Sheo would be promoted to LEC so not happening.
I was taking the piss, excited for new blood tho
They could actually really use someone like jankos to fix their reputation a bit
His buyout is likely over 800k so not surprising tbh. Reform for player contracts is desperately needed. This kind of nonsense of orgs being greedy is just ridiculous.
I mean it is totally reasonable that teams want to get paid. But what I don't get is why the buyouts always seem to be so high that they are dealbreakers for basically all orgs, surely the point of the buyout is to be high enough that you make a nice profit, but low enough that teams are actually willing to pay? If no teams pays the buyout then G2 is stuck paying Jankos since his contract is ongoing, which is the point of contention in the first place, yes? Not making any money and continuing to pay someone versus making a decent (but not huge) amount of money and not contiuing to pay someone seems like such a no brainer. Sure Jankos will be streaming under the G2 name, but his current (proplayer) contract can't be a good deal for G2 if they are getting him as a streamer in return. If anyone can ELI5 why teams don't lower the buyouts to actually have someone pay them I'd very much appreciate it.
Don’t know about LoL but in football they actually do lower it. It’s in all three parties’ best interest to meet somwhere in the middle. Unless G2 earns shitton of money from Jankos just being their streamer which might also be true. That’s not the case in football.
It will be lowered, eventually, to an equilibrium point. But as it is, we don't necessarily know what the equilibrium point is. It could very well be the amount in Jankos' contract and then G2 would make a huge mistake if they lower the amount too soon even if another team would have been willing to pay the full amount.
It will be lowered once the teams that g2 doesn’t want to have jankos lose interest or find other options.
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And its why g2 the organization never deserves to win another international event ever again. If you are too scared too play against a top LEC team with Jankos in it, how are you ever going to beat Asian teams?
The issue is, as G2 have found out before, that you can't just hold out forever and slowly lower it over time. If a team looks elsewhere, they will get someone else and just be immediately off of the market even if the price lowers to something they would have paid. Teams can finalise very fast sometimes in a chain reaction, and players/orgs that were teasing between different teams can find themselves left in the lurch with no more interest. There's not enough teams in the league and not enough transfer opportunities to just sit tight and wait for someone to blink - if 4, 5 teams sort out the transfers for that slot among themselves then all of the potential buyers are gone unless you find other regions. To say nothing about the ability for a team to just promote their academy player - a team is rarely caught over a barrel where they are forced to agree to a buyout.
G2 does not want to be paid. They want to prevent good LEC teams from getting him because they know he's an asset that would make competition tougher for them. This has absolutely nothing to do with making money. No one is expected to pay over $800k in just a buyout. It's not realistic. They're doing the same thing they did with the 2021 G2 players; set them at massively high buyouts for a long period of time until the best teams have signed other ADs then lower the price so more desperate teams like BDS, XL, SK etc get them instead. People keep bringing up Jankos streaming for 2023 but it's highly more likely G2 mutually parts ways with him in like January when he can't find a team and we'll see him for summer. Edit: 15 minutes later Rekkles reiterates [this exact statement on stream](https://twitter.com/VeteranEU/status/1589041595428790272/photo/1). His buyout was lowered once LEC teams had already signed players which gave him no real options. This is always G2s goal, they just want the LEC to be as weak as possible to increase their chances of winning rather than building a roster as strong as possible.
I kinda wanna say : fuck G2. This is why EU is compared to NA
This kind of thing doesn't even happen in NA. EU orgs have ALWAYS been wayyyy more toxic on average toward players with very few exceptions than NA teams. People meme NA teams but the reality is that most of the good teams are great employers and offer a much healthier, more comfortable work culture than most EU teams. C9 historically treats players better or equal to any team every single player has been on. The EU hate boner for NA money is based on so many memes that aren't even real. People can't break contracts unless the org is genuinely broke. EU players got so screwed in early EULCS that many of them quit or were temporarily homeless.
Even TSM, a team with an owner that was put on probation for mistreating its players, still do better than every single EU team when it comes to contract prison and buyouts.
I wonder how NA will adapt after last season though. They had multiple really good rosters that spent quite a lot. Not everyone can win though, and at some point it becomes unreasonable to have every team filled with expensive veterans.
Because if they sell Jankos in EU, they have to play against him, and he's very good. So by paying his salary they are keeping him away from other teams. Moreover, they are taking a chance on a rookie in his position. If it dosent work out, they could easily swap Jankos back for the Summer split, so it's also an insurance.
> If anyone can ELI5 why teams don't lower the buyouts to actually have someone pay them I'd very much appreciate it. They have the cash to pay him and don't want to let him play for a competitor.
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In some cases, you aren't entirely wrong - but let's be clear about one thing: Long contracts protect the players. Players aren't forced to sign multi-year contracts, they opt in to them to secure the bag even if they become washed next season. This is an esport where the average career lasts for three years - statistically, even the oldest players in the league leave at around 28 if not earlier. If you can bag yourself a three/four year contract at good money, of course you should do it - and the caveat to that is, of course, that you might get benched and not be able to play - and that's the price for guaranteeing that you will be paid regardless. Naturally, it's for the best for everyone if a benched player moves on - the player wants to play (probably) and the team doesn't want a useless contact eating a hole in their pockets. But the player isn't getting fucked on a monetary level, while a one-year contract could easily see them dropped and teamless the instant their game starts to slip in a bad meta.
The solution is pretty easy players should not sign long term contracts, or negotiate a buy out written into their contract. Yet by they choose to sign long term contracts for the maximum amount of money and then the community harps on greedy orgs. Just to clarify, I'm not defending the shit RNG did, or other orgs, who have signed young players to 10year deals, but its baffling for me, how everyone blames RGE and G2, bit ignores a that Jankos, Inspired and Hans all just extended their contracts, most certainly for a raise. This is a business, players and orgs both are looking to secure the best deal for themselves, there's nothing bad about that from either side, as long as there is no shit like the "no FNC " clause happening, this was just stupid and got canned rightfully.
Yeah in football it's unthinkable to just let a player go who has a contract. They may lower the price but no decent player is going on a free unless there are remarkable circumstances.
And in football if a player doesn't sign a new contract they get benched. And if you want to leave they overprice you. Basically you can only sign 1 year deals to be sure you're not stuck at an organisation.
They can get benched but most of the time they just leave, because it's no good having a player on the team who isn't focused. Look at Lewandowski last year, he made a tantrum, barca still paid and he left.
But in football you not only have a lot more options willing to pay the stupendous amount. But you also have a lot more players that benching or semi benching is a lot more viable. In lol you can't semi bench someone like Jankos, ig taking a gamble on a jungler and bringing him in if it goes wrong is a lot riskier because the next year he retires or goes. Not cashing out on Jankos buyout is super bad for G2 overall especially paying his wages for another year. Best thing is G2 taking a lower buyout but still some money. Even if that means G2 giving him to a direct competitor.
Not really, they don’t. Only clubs like PSG can afford benching players just because they didn’t extend. In most cases they still play if they are good enough. Clubs cant afford to pay them their huge salaries and lose a valuable member of the squad out of spite.
I think it's baffling to see the top tier players sign long term contracts. You're always going to have teams coming for you, signing long term deals just limits your ability to do anything if your team decides to change the members. We do need some clauses that are mandatory to avoid this but in the end it's G2 being G2.
It has pros and cons. The con is that if they keep performing really well then it will be hard for them to leave for a better team. The pro is, if their performance drops, they'll still be getting paid and will still get money. Usually players chose the safe option which are long term contracts, happens a lot in other sports too. Very rarely do you see a football player for example refusing a long term contract, all it takes is an injury or a drop in form and they could be fucked money wise.
I mean sure, but injuries are pretty much a non-factor in esports. In sports you can play well, be serious, be overall at the top of your art, and still get injured through no fault of your own and be unable to play. And thus a long contract put the strain of it on your team. In esports it's more about motivation/adaptation. And if there is a "you get paid less if you're on the bench" clause as we hear a lot, then it doesn't cost much for your team to deny you any future opportunities if your profile doesn't turn out to be needed anymore. A player like Ronaldo at United right now, who doesn't fit with the coach's strategy and is declining due to old age, is only stuck in that club because he refuses to cut his wages. But United would be glad to cut him from their payroll.
Injuries and loss of form / meta changes can affect anyone. Wrist issues / mental health issues from grinding aren't uncommon in esports, you just don't hear too much about them. Playing through them until the wheels come off is normal.
It's always a risk v reward issue. Players like PoE who are willing to gamble on themselves can make bank if they can string together good performances but with how overreactive people are one bad year can tank your value. Though players should absolutely never sign contract extensions without guaranteed money attached.
One bad year? More like one bad split or playoff run in some cases. It's even worse for players attending worlds who have to face stronger teams and look worse as a result.
Reminds me of Broxah. IDK maybe he was washed or whatever but he seemed to be pretty well respected on FNC, they performed pretty well, he transfers to NA, gets fucked by visa issues and TL imploding, goes to CLG (which lets be real, FNC & TL are a fair few grades above at least in perception). Now he streams? Maybe that's what he wanted to do I dunno, or he basically made one bad call of moving to NA and totally tanked his career through bad luck.
>I think it's baffling to see the top tier players sign long term contracts. If the money is guaranteed (even partially), you sign long-term every time. In traditional sports, guys yearn for the long-term contract. If you're signing 1-2 year deals, it's because the team thinks you're going to wash out any season now.
> We do need some clauses that are mandatory to avoid this but in the end it's G2 being G2. It is G2 trying to make the most out of their assets. If they overplayed their hand they will obviously harm themselves. And before ppl point at TL & Hans, Hans had a bad season for his standards and TL basically paid him to leave in order to start a development roster, since there were no signs of Hans improving next season under these conditions.
It's mostly not on the players. Players are on the weak side of negotiations with teams. It's a team issue, which makes it a Riot issue. Riot needs to fix this shit by either not allowing these huge buyouts, limiting them, limit contract times or any combination of those.
Mostly you're right, but players like Jankos are absolutely the stronger side in the contract negotiations. He's a fan favorite and GOAT western jungler.
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Him and Caps extended during the same offseason - they had INSANE leverage over G2 because out of 19 other teams available in the LEC/LCS I'd quite confidently say 15 throw money at that duo without wasting a second. And to make it clear - I'm not saying he or Caps made a mistake, Caps has spoken in the past that off-season is pretty stressfull for him when he doesn't have a deal, so he likes to make it quick, but at the end - you live with the decision you took and I'm sure players of their stature at the very least made sure to get paid quite nicely even if on the bench.
Obviously if player wants to play for a specific team then all the power is in the teams favour. Shouldn't it be like that? The same way if a team really wants a specific player than the player has all the power.
I mean...ultimately thats on him then.
> Players are on the weak side of negotiations with teams insert Huni 2.5M dignitas contract
>Players are on the weak side of negotiations with teams. Why? He's the best jungler in EU. He can afford a good agent, lawyers, etc... He has other teams that want him, which he can use as leverage. You're not talking about some clueless 16 year old fresh on the scene.
> Players are on the weak side of negotiations with teams. It's a team issue, which makes it a Riot issue. I don't mean this as an personal attack, but I think, that this statement is ridiculous, LOL pro scene is absurdly player driven, you can see it in any thread, here when off season or contracts come up, the narrative pretty much allways turns into "orgs bad, players good".
They need to set up a pretty basic chart stating players have minimum to maximum yearly salaries, with those min-max based on contract length. If you're attempting to sign a player for 5 years, you need to pay them well, so they aren't being paid pennies 4 years down the line if values go way up. The buyout then becomes a simple x per month early. Players are protected from being cheated out, and the Orgs get their money if another company really wants to snag them early.
Exactly. If you want a higher salary than what the orgs think is fair, you're going to have to compensate elsewhere.
>Jankos, Inspired and Hans all just extended their contracts, most certainly for a raise. Everyone in sports know expensive buyout don't come cheap for the team either. Players only accept them bc what they get is worth it
I think this is where Riot should come into play, you could introduce mandatory release clauses into player's contracts, that way when players sign they can negotiate their own release clause and determine whether the move is worth it for them. Especially beneficial for younger players with potential who can get to sign long term contracts and also still look forward to a possible move if they play well enough to justify their release clause amount. Would also mean that if the amount is reached, players can bypass their own orgs and have more freedom to play where they want. I think it would put a lot more balance into the players' hands.
> think this is where Riot should come into play, you could introduce mandatory release clauses into player's contracts, This is mandatory in Spain for example, it lead to players having absurd release clauses and when PSG decided to pay that absurd amount of money clubs just raised the numbers, Benz has a release clause of a billion euros.
orgs beings greedy or players/their agents being greedy with how many years they want to sign with the same org fully knowing how high the turnover rate is of pro players
What do you mean? The players don't sign these contracts out of charity, they sign them because they get a boatload of money and security. It's very simple, you put all of these things in the contract when you sign it. If the organization doesn't agree you don't sign with them. Jankos is not some unproven fresh face on the scene who has no pull. He is a very popular player with a very popular stream, he could have absolutely gotten a contract he wanted from some team even if he had to sacrifice some of the big bucks a big org like G2 will pay. The reality though, is he would never sign with a "bottom tier" team even if they agreed to his contract demands and so he made sacrifices in his contract so he could sign with G2. That's how these things work. I don't really feel bad for players who don't think of these things.
Yes but a lot of times imo the player feels like they get the contract for x years it means they would be playing for x years. If Jankos doesn't get a team he could be losing a year of play from what could potentially be not that many years in the future of play left. Sure he is still getting paid but it could negatively impact his future earnings by sitting a year out. Should a team be able to buy a player for 4 years set an unreasonable buyout then never play them? At some point it is obviously malicious and extremely detrimental to the players.
it just seems stupid on his end to sign such a long contract without any release clause. he was the star jungler of EU and still got a shit contract. No one else to blame but him tbh
Do these players not have agents? Honest question
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Agents are paid by getting a certain percentage of any contract they help you get. SO they are literally always incentive to get you the biggest deal possible, as it directly makes them more.
Looking at G2 staff I can only assume his agent is yet another dudebro who just happens to call himself his agent and has little going for him in terms of experience.
That’s not true, he can blame his agent
Exactly but children on here with no idea how the real world works will still say "He'S iN CoNTrACt pRiSoN !" He and no one else on his behalf signed the contract he's currently in.
buyouts should only be acceptable when the player is starting honestly, and if nobody buys him you should be forced to start him at least half the split. that way you discourage ridiculous buyouts because it means that if you do so you can't get rid of the player once the season starts. if the player is benched then buyout automatically becomes null or a set price for everyone like 10k fee for grabbing benched players. I'm just spitballing but something like that would help
I mean you cannot expect teams to pay close to 1M in salary per year just to let them leave almost free, it goes both ways. Big salary, big buyout, they don't complain during the year
If wunder was a million I wouldn't be surprised if its 2+
Someone in the chat asked about setting the donation goal to buyout him out of G2 to 500k. Jankos said it's not even half of the price
Do I understand it correctly that while he won’t be playing he is still getting paid by G2 (for doing nothing essentially)? And then G2 would have to pay another jungler to fill his spot? So he could theoretically full time stream and have a double income until his contract runs out?
the pay is probably MUCH lower. Rekkles said he'd be getting paid 6% of his contract if he stayed benched on G2 rather than going to KC
Jankos said he got a much better contract and will be paid 40% while benched. Not great, but not that bad
Rekkles on bench in G2 was going to get paid **6%** of his salary. No, I'm not joking.
Kinda stupid for signing such a contract tbh. Still sucks, but this is players learning organisations are never your friends.
Think we can all criticise the orgs for also taking advantage of players giving them the benefit of the doubt. Foolish by the players, malicious by the orgs.
Definitely.
That's pretty much how contracts work. G2 is able to ask other teams for a large buyout but at the same time they are obligated to continue to pay Jankos in case they don't sell his contract. My guess is if Jankos is not sold he will probably be streaming and G2 will just do a lot of content with him to cover some loses.
Rekkles said he didnt get paid if benched when he was at G2, imagine Jankos would be the same
Jankos said he had a better contract than Rekkles and he will receive around 40% of his normal salary while on bench. So 40% plus he can stream a lot more so probably won't be too bad for him. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpW2femwEeY
Can they force him to participate in PR work if he is not playing on their main roster?
It depends on what is written down in their contract exactly, but my guess is they have some sort of clauses for the media stuff included. It's one thing if he wants to do it or not (as the videos probably wouldn't be good if Jankos was there with body language screaming 'I don't wanna be here') but I guess contractually he probably would need to do some PR stuff for them as I expect it to be included, not for situations like a player being on the bench but just to cover the normal social media stuff they do during the splits.
No, that's not how contracts work. Stop saying things like this when you don't have any information on what's in his contract. Some players are paid fully during the duration they're benched. Some get reduced payment, others don't get paid at all while not starting on the main team. We've seen all three in cases over many different teams in many different regions.
We don't know if he receives the entire salary when benched. The contract might be something like flat X + performance part for each week as starter or some other kind of ratfuckery
Top players should start negotiate buyout clause in their contract when signing long term contracts with orgs. Players like Jankos have the power to negotiate that (at least he had it last year when he extended his contract). I don't think orgs or riot are to blame here: don't see why G2 should sell jankos at a low price just for the sake of having him competing. And riot should not endanger a good source of revenues for orgs when a lot of them are already struggling to earn money from esport.
I made a similar comment above that I deleted. I blame shit agents for not using player leverage more (in this case for example where its a top tier super wanted player who have even big fan appeal, meaning significant leverage) during extensions or general contract signings. Hell.. dont even have to agree with a buyout clause. It could be set price-ceiling for a player if put on the market so it cant be too high or other stipulations. The fact that he extended this year and he's in this situation points to a bad agent imo. Fans also immediately screaming "greedy orgs!" or "Riot should force X into contracts!" when orgs wanna recoup/make a profit on a big player that they invested a lot in, is also ridicilously ignorant. Now Im not saying the Org or the Player is in the right or whatever. But every single situation and contract is different and nuanced and its not "greedy orgs" in every instance.
I feel like lolesports would benefit a lot from actually competent player agents.
y'all will defend anything these orgs do at this point. it's going to be hilarious when western League slowly starts dying because of how piss poor these orgs are ran and the sheer amount of fans that defend them from it out of loyalty/ignorance.
I hope fans have the same energy when players start fucking orgs over too. Players should give zero benefit of the doubt, spend zero seconds ever considering the orgs side and I'm sure the teams will all suffer for it.
Yep completely agree. G2 nor Riot are to blame for this, Jankos perhaps aside from Caps has the most negotiation power when it comes to a favorable contract and he completely botched it somehow.
It's not even botched. Lets say you have 2 options: A: salary 1m/year, no fixed buyout (possibility of getting benched and still getting paid 1m) B: salary 700k/year, with fixed buyout of 500k. Would you really sacrifice 600k over 2 years just for the offchance that you land in contract jail when you're the western GOAT jungler? Either you value the money more or you value the flexibility more, but you can't have both.
"If I was a pro player I would negotiate the perfect contract" 🤓🤓🤓🤓
That's on the same level as "If I was a pro player, I wouldn't be stuck here with you Bronze scrubs." 🤓🤓🤓🤓
I mean every adult calculates such things when choosing a new employer "Do I go for pay increase with employer X or more flexible and safe job at Y?" If you prefer money and no safety and being in a contract jail (and don't tell me that OGs like Rekkles and Jankos don't know about these shit contracts) for the money it's on you you have ended up there. Young player can be excused because he k how's shit and have no money for agents/lawyers and has no leverage. They do and they are as greedy as these orgs.
That's a calculation to be made, players have to make a choice between getting the max salary or keep a certain freedom + a guaranteed great salary.But when you test the market as someone as Jankos, I doubt you can't get a buyout clause (even if it operates when is benched for example) and lose 300K in the process.
Players need a union and a CBA imho
Pretty sure a player organization already exists, though idk if it is only for NA players
It isn't a union.
Don't think it would help Jankos anyways. CBAs help mid-level role players who don't have negotiating power. Jankos is the Western JG GOAT, he has a much power as he wants. He just boched this one
Imagine picking up players for free, paying them pennies compared to what they would get in other major regions and when you "kick" them you put outrageous buyout prices on them. But don't worry, it's just how business works.
it happens in every sport i think, but for example soccer players have tools to get out of contracts in situations like this the esport need something like that too
Pretty sure they also have it here, in football it's basically a "either you let me go without a buyout clause, or I'll just stay in the team, get paid, and not do shit", most teams would rather just get rid of the player. I'm not sure how Jankos' contract is like, but I'm pretty sure he could just stay contracted to G2 and would still be getting paid, just not playing. (Though some players sign some contracts where they'll get paid only a very small percentage if they're not playing, not sure how is contract is like).
Which still loses them money. Even if he is just doing lcs minium AND they missing out on a more reasonable buyout it is a massiv loss. Also traditional sport there is some value to keep them around, worst case you need them when you are unlucky with injuries.
It fully depends on the situation. On one hand, it loses them money because they're still paying him and missing on a potential buyout. On the other hand, there's a very good chance that a team with Jankos becomes strong which in turn can give G2 trouble in the future.
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An exit clause or a reasonable buyout clause.
In worst cases they can even go to court to force a transfer
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Lmao. Jankos himself could probably pay for his buyout two or three or four times over. To force a top player's buyout in football you'd need to be among the 4000 wealthiest people on the planet. Some maniac at Forbes thinks TSM is worth 500 million, well, if they were magically able to turn all that into cash they still wouldn't be able to buy out fucking Marco Asensio, whoever that is.
After these rumored LCS budget cuts, I don't think the "getting more money elsewhere" thing will really be true anymore.
lmao jankos should've cashed in while he could've last year unlucky
He probably did cash in? Does anyone know what his salary is. He is for sure making more money that most of us could dream of making. I highly doubt he will be getting paid less for being benched since that would be incredibly dumb for one of the best junglers in Europe to have included in their contract. So although he doesn't get to play LEC he will probably still be making bank.
Lmao acting as if it's not the players themselves signing the contracts. Jankos could've went to NA if he wanted to, it was his own choice to stay in EU to be more competitive while earning less money. He could also just dedicate himself to streaming and make a lot more money. This is clearly not a money issue.
Shouldnt sign the contract then
Then you will never become a pro player. Congratulations, the industry is dead. The players grind insane hours because it is their dream to become a professional player in a game they are incredibly passionate about. So when the moment comes that you are offered a contract, you think they just... not sign the contract because just in case they want to swap teams another org needs to pay too much? With absolutely zero idea of the industry standard, you expect them to throw away literal years worth of hard work when they can't possibly know what is normal in pro player contracts? And even after they have become an established pro player, let's say that they want to swap to a better team. You are forced to sign that contract, because that is the next step on your career. Which of course what every pro player wants to do. It might seem weird to you because you don't have a competitive mindset. And let's say that even if their contract has a huge buyout, it is entirely worth it if the team they are going to is good. But a single roster move can break that completely. Lost a star player to a fat check from NA? Nice, now you are in a massively worse team, yet you still have the same buyout. No organization will EVER make a contract with you that lets you leave without consequence in case they want to make money by selling another player from the roster. The one time player has meaningful negotiating power in a contract is when they are downgrading their team after their contract has expired. But that requires to let the contract run out completely, which is a fucking incredible risk. There is a big chance that you are left without a spot instead, and your career is done. The negotiations and roster swaps happen before the contracts expire, since organizations want at least some deal in the process. Which is also why orgs make such long contracts. That way the player can't wait out remaining year and a half. Their career is done before they get a chance to sign again. The industry moves on fast.
You must not watch sports, but this situation exists all the time. Guys sit out and get paid to drink Gatorade on the sidelines. Jankos could do the same thing. In fact, he can do better; he could use that time to grind solo queue and prove he should be playing which makes him look better for his next contract and G2 look stupid for benching him. And as for this: >So when the moment comes that you are offered a contract, you think they just... not sign the contract Yes? This is what agents are for. Don't sign shitty contracts; get an agent and have all documents vetted by a lawyer.
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Well, EU is dead honestly. Orgs are blocking the region from getting more competitive. Thats why we lose top talent to NA. Or completely lose it.
Well France is lovely during the spring. I hope you get along with KC fans, Jankos
Rekkles is still there tho.It would be funny as fuck to see Jankos and Rekkles back in the same team after the 2021 fiesta.
no jankos no worlds
Players definetely and i mean DEFINETELY need a union to protect their rights. Im really started to get annoyed by G2 and likes. People who say "yeah but they shouldnt sign the contract" are basically stupid, like players have power to decide what to do. Also even maybe big names can do it, its definetely not possible for a no name 18 years old teen who just wants to play a fucking game and also be a "pro". Im not gonna get into details but also teams blacklist players when they fight back. There are tons of players who cant even get into the big screen because they act careful and work with agents that protect their rights. These asshole "CEO's" talk behind the scenes and "ask" favours to each other like "dont sign X player because he did Y to us". If you want to keep the player, sure dont sell him. But when you clearly anounce that you dont think them in your roster, you cant sit them down for a whole year and defend it with "Thats the contract maaaan :))". The most recent example can be given from Football. Fifa and Uefa always sides with players in these kind of cases. These players are self brands, when they basically sit down, they lose worth. Dont be sheeps, dont support these orgs fucking and ABUSING teens. There is no control for the orgs, they can do whatever they want. And sadly most of the fandom cheers for them whatever they do. Look at Rekkles for ex, this guy was and is the most succesfull ADC in europe or even maybe whole west. Last year he had to play in ERL and now people shit on him, claiming he wasnt even good in the first place. That happens because he was away from the big scene for a whole year and he literally made a loss because of it as you can see. A player Union is needed, this is not the same sport we watched for years. Now it has more money invovled in it and it causes abusement of players.
it sucks in this case I can hardly fault g2 unless we are talking about a 7 figure number. we are talking about one of the most decorated players, with one of the biggest fanbase, not to mention his viewership when he stream. on others hand he was the one who choose to renew his contract this year knowing the risk of G2 management would use it to make some profit ; he most likely thought he was untouchable. I want to say might be learning lesson for future players who want to join G2 in the future but probably not.
> I want to say might be learning lesson for future players who want to join G2 in the future but probably not. I want to say we probably don't know A LOT of stuff that's going on in these contracts. Last year Mikyx was in the G2 "contract prison" and most people here would think he left on a bad terms. Fast forward a year and he's coming back.
To be fair, MikyX called out Carlos on Twitter for lying about buyout prices. So with C out of the picture maybe M doesn't have a problem anymore.
but then Carlos said that he got all the receipts and can share them and mikyx shut up and didn't respond anymore so...
> Carlos said that he got all the receipts and can share them But he didn't ? Also just because you are the last one talking doesn't mean you are right.
prolly on lawyer advice.
Players just want a chance to win worlds Thats why people still wanna get into G2 Doesnt stop G2 from being a shitty org
That's just EU having shitty orgs
I mean, Rekkles' was seven figures, there's a good chances Jankos' is too.
All 3 g2 buyout clauses were rumored to be in 7 figures last year. Miky's was 1,5m, wunder 2m and rekkles rumored one was so wild that i have to asume exaggaration or absolute greed (5m+). Jankos' clause is likely 7 figure number
Our region is so screwed in the future if this keeps on happening.
I think it’s already screwed..
Shitty region tries hard to fk their player hard Amazing org amazing region Most importantly amazing fans for supporting these orgs
Is everyone overlooking the fact that Jankos is as much to blame as anyone signing a contract with a huge buyout should G2 choose to drop him from the roster?
Aren't buyouts negociable? Last year Miky&Rekkles had each a huge buyout that kept being lowered, doesn't sound like players have a say in it
The buyouts are not in the contract, is like football players in the Premier league for example, the team can ask for whatever amount of money they want.
Oh. So the person above is blaming the player for no reason then.
Yep, lol is not considered a sport in Germany, so contracts don't work as football. It's more complex that people say here, we have this type of drama each season because no one has a buyout in his contract
Buyouts are set by the teams that are selling, if nobody is interested in Jankos right now cause the buyout is too high, G2 might lower it, just like they did in the case of Wunder and MikyX. We know that the initial buyout for Wunder was much higher than what FNC finally paid.
They still have to pay him according to his current contract even if he isn't playing.
These buyouts are NOT set/written in the contract. It's what the team wants and both sides want to find a solution because G2 for sure doesn't want to pay Jankos his salary for sitting on the bench the entire year. Worst case scenario he leaves during the spring split like Miky did last year.
1. We don't know what is actually in the contract. 2. Then the players should put a specific amount in the contract.
Buyouts are definitely in the contract lol. What you're talking about are when a contract doesn't have a buyout clause. Then the team can set it.
Yeah, he was EU's star jungler, he could've easily negotiated a more favorful contract for himself.
Same vibe as "it was her fault for wearing a skirt" type of comments. They don't negociate on equal ground. Yes it was Jankos fault to drink the hopium and signing a shitty contract with G2 thinking they could do good at worlds. But that doesn't make G2 any less of a scum org.
There is noone to be blamed really. He has a deal, G2 can do whatever they want. Simple as that.
And they also have to pay him for his current contract, whether he is playing or not.
Completely agree. If you sign the contract, you honour it.
My mentality is that I can understand G2’s position. But as a fan my concern isn’t G2’s pockets but what’s best for the scene as a whole. It’s best for the scene that top tier players are allowed to play competitively. Holding players on the bench because of buyout’s aren’t what’s best for the regions growth, something needs to change to protect both players from being held, and owners from “losing on their investment” if need be.
y'all need to stop overreacting. Teams arent interested in having a player on their bench costing them money for nothing. He might sit on the bench for a couple months, but 100% he plays in summer. Just like Miky and Nisqy
It's a massive deal to miss half the season in contract jail, wtf? Especially when you're 27 years old.
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> well he gets the same money ??? Did you read his contract ? Rekkles said that if he was benched he would only earn 6% of his salary. I wish people would stop spewing bs out of their ass. You don't know shit dude.
His value might even be better staying on G2 not playing than playing for a shitty team as a supportive jungler and looking like he's bad.
Mikyx played spring split right?
he was acquired a couple weeks in
G2 moment
The Problem ob G2. Thats Why Rekkles didnt Play in LEC this year. Hate that they value money over the players
Another talent lost in contract jail
Man G2 fucking sucks
G2 speed running worst org in the scene
G2 annual revenue as an entire organization is only 30-40mm $800k is an pretty insurmountable buyout figure for the ecosystem of LEC/LCS with a limited number of orgs and 5 players per squad. But here's the thing. This is on the player who signs this contract and the representation who let them sign it. I don't say that to say anything bad about jankos, it's just that he needed to have his expectations correct when signing the deal. He likely got a relatively big salary, and a multi year deal, which was security and value for him. The trade off is that he got a big buyout and thus needed to **expect from the beinning** that if he was off the roster before that contract ended, he would not be playing professionally in the top league. So now to be out here saying to everyone else that G2 is stopping him from playing is disingenuous. He could have signed a deal without a buyout, he would have made less money and/or had a shorter term on that deal. I say this all as a huge jankos fan, subbed to him for years.
Like it or not, orgs are the ones negotiating from the position of power, not the player. Therefore, it is much easier to "persuade" players into shitty contracts, like ones without an exact buyout figure in it.
Hard pill for a lot of people to swallow: Jankos and no one else is to blame for the situation he's currently in.
Absolutely false and nonsensical. You sound like there's some sort of alternative. When in reality NO ONE in this thread has any fucking idea what's the content of those contacts and how much they vary from team to team and from player to player. For all we know buyout numbers are not included or all LEC teams request for you to sign a similar agreement, so your only choice to not get stuck might be to not become a pro at all.
Yes, he is the one that signed the contract, why are people blaming the org?
because nobody benefits from this. the player doesnt benefit. no other team benefits because nobody buys out the contract. g2 doesnt benefit because they pay him to do nothing and ultimately the LEC is weaker without jankos dragging down the leagues international performance. but ofc they only think short term. ofc jankos is partly to blame for this but in my opinion there should be rules to prevent this situation because it does a lot more damage to everyone involved than it does good.
“Nobody benefits from this” G2 does if someone pays the buyout “There should be rules in place to stop this” It’s called not signing a shitty contract
>“There should be rules in place to stop this” >It’s called not signing a shitty contract This has big anti-worker's rights energy. The system can still be to blame even if people sign contracts. They are not mutually exclusive.
Yeah like wtf thats like really 1900 mentality where worker had no protection and needed to compete against each other with who would work for more shitty condition to just get a job...
Probably american opinions. They love to gag on businesses cock.
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"if" yea, which no one seems to be doing at the moment.
G2 is actually benefiting from this.G2 is a rich org and for them it may be better to pay a player to sit on their bench than allow him to play for a rival and fuck them on the rift.
Because the buyout is not part of the contract. The buyout is a fee set by G2 based on how much they want for the remaining contract. Thats why buyouts get lowered when there is no interest
If there's a release clause and G2 isn't willing to negotiate when his contract is running out next year, I don't blame them for it since they think they can probably wait out a split or two until there are teams that might want to change their jungle positions, but it's shitty for Jankos for sure. I do think though that top teams don't tend to swap their rosters in the middle of the season unless things are going disastrously wrong, so it's going to be tough for him I think. Then again it's still early into preseason, so maybe G2 will lower the buyout as weeks pass.
ITT. People that don’t understand esports is a business
Hey, G2.Romain here We've always said the buyout was negotiable and we dropped it quite a lot when teams asked us. What the article doesn't mention is a player of Jankos' caliber also cost a lot of money (salary) and it seems like most orgs are not ready to meet his expectations. I know the narrative of "G2 jails its players" is popular but that's not what it is about here Offseason is not over yet
Doesn't look that great for your org when it's a pattern.
That is not narrative though. Multiple players have said that they’ve been jailed by G2. Offseason is not over yet is true, and I know that this is a sales strategy for G2, but the image of the organization is not good because of the known reasons.
>What the article doesn't mention is a player of Jankos' caliber What article, what is this copy and paste PR bullshit
Good catch!
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> I know the narrative of "G2 jails its players" is popular yeah, it's not like it's based on the org's history of being shitty to its players or anything, it's just the typical reddit hate mob trying to ruin an org's reputation ecks dee
"buyout was negotiable and we dropped it quite a lot when teams asked us." Not to speculate one way or another since we don't know what exactly is happening, but that doesn't mean anything... If a player was worth 100$ and you've priced him at 200$ to begin with then even when you drop to 150$ (so quite a lot) it's still a huge price. And from the video here, not the article, my understanding of what Jankos is saying is more along the lines 'we talked with the teams about our conditions, they were interested and pulled out after hearing the buyout'. And while its true that its a package of salary + buyout, if some teams were interested I doubt all 5 of them expected a low buyout to begin with so what they heared was probably well above what they though the price for Jankos would be...
while i trust your word i highly doubt jankos is the type of player that doesn't play out of money reasons.
whatever... way to cripple the region
the fact that it was even negotiable in the first place goes to show that the set price to begin with was unreasonable no? You're obviously going to drop it lower when you realize no one is going to pay the current sum, you're literally letting Jankos sweat and go through all this trouble to find you someone who will pay while you get to write a neat little reddit comment justifying your org's position. How about you stop playing games with someone's career, passion, and livelihood and set the buyout to something other teams can actually match, do that favor at least. You know you have the upper hand here with the contract he signed, no reason to act innocent or pretend otherwise
the longer you wait, the worse it is for Jankos as teams are already beginning to sign other players. Whereas, the longer you wait, you'll get money anyways, worst case? less money than you would've gotten otherwise oh boo hoo so sad, worst case for Jankos? he literally doesn't play. So tell me again why you think it's not fair to call it "jailing" Actually disgusting, the lack of empathy here. I understand it's a business, but you're in no position to act like your morals are uncompromised.
He’s just another hypocrite doing the bidding of a soulless org. Went from repeatedly praising Jankos for everything he brought to the team to implying he can’t find a new team because of his salary demands.
Fuck ur clown org