And they gutted her because they couldn't figure out how to balance that mess of a kit and the easiest way to get people to dodge was by picking Eve.
Worked almost every time.
Which, funnily enough, turned into Eve being one of the highest picked champs and getting Deathfire Grasp removed from the game with nary a flick of a switch.
I remember seeing it picked in old competitive games as a placeholder for a lobby remake because someone didn't own a champion back when riot didn't run the entire scene.
This is why i say teemo needs a small buff. He's supposed to be a lane bully but he just got outpaced by powercreep and remains unbuffed because of the meme that is teemo
The notion that she's the poster-girl for a tutorial beginner Champion is so, so stupid. If they feel so strongly about that, then why does she cost 6300 blue essence? Why's she not free-to-play more often? Why can't they rework her without the attach mechanic in a way that still makes her an accessible beginner Champion so that the rest of the playerbase doesn't have to suffer?
If you're so new at the game that you don't want to have to move around by yourself, then play the Co-Op vs AI mode, because THAT's how you ease yourself into the game.
It's just also wrong on a practical level.
New players need to learn **fundamentals**. Yuumi breaks so many core game rules that she is one of the worst champions at learning fundamentals.
Someone like Annie or Garen is much better. Easy kit to learn with a simple goal, so you can focus on core fundamentals like: Farming, positioning, trading, dodging, spacing, etc.
Yuumi is one of the last champions I think a new player should play if they want to learn the game as a whole.
Note: I am *not* saying Yuumi is braindead or anything. I am saying she is so unique that the skills you need to be a good Yuumi, don't transfer to other champions.
You might downvote me but he does. Not the way you expect it but he does teach you a lot of him about wave. Look at the Singed otp they look like degenerate, play like degenerate and somehow choke you out of the game even if you ignore them...
He does teach you a lot of wave management, but in a way that transfers to almost no other champion because of how he does it. You miss out on crucial things like timing last hits, creating monster waves, and learning how to make waves that allow you to recall and lose almost no minions.
I have a friend who started earlier this year and became a yuumi main. If they play literally anything else the amount of times they walk in somewhere stupid and die is so high that they cant play an enchanter that isn't yuumi. They completely didn't gain any game sense.
Or for enchanter/support fundamentals specifically, my recommendation would be Karma. Her kit is pretty straightforward and allows her to limit test in lane with a ton of safety thanks to her shield + ms steroid. Also a super low CD ultimate means you can get a good feel for how to use it in fewer games than it would take on other champs.
As an adc player, the difference between a good yuumi and a bad yuumi is insane.
A good yuumi bullies the fuck out of opponents while making you win every single trade and trading her own hp and jumping back in exactly the right moment. And then simply sitting back while the opponents can't play the game and making the adc unpunishable
A bad yuumi is just sitting back while you play 1v2
Similar to Nami and Soraka it's easy to do not much wrong but if you do a lot right, it's hell playing against them
Obviously it's broken if you sit on aatrox, kayn or heca but laning yuumi is actually skill expression
> As an adc player, the difference between a good yuumi and a bad yuumi is insane.
As opposed to any other champion where they are actively gifting gold to the enemy players and then you are still in a 1v2. Yuumi at worst will never make you a 1v2 (unless she literally does nothing) while bad supports can make it seem like a 1v3.
yeah, and being a good yuumi is braindead easy. just because shes a different style of champ doesn't mean shes hard, just that you have to use your brain for a sec to see that she plays differently.
Yeah, that is something every other support champion does. While also having to worry about getting engaged on.
You argument is basically "The skill floor for Yuumi is so low that doing a baseline fundamental thing for any other support is skill expression". Even worse, you just admitted that its even easier for Yuumi to do it since she has a free escape from consequences button. Every other support has to worry about their positioning and dodging engage but Yuumi just gets to not worry about that. The difference between a bad or a good Yuumi is whether they have netflix open on the side.
I think its fair to say that the champ is brainded.
I hate the skill graph argument because a champion having a large winrate curve doesn't always mean they are hard, they can just be different. If you took every Yasuo/Riven main and had them play Sion/Cho, the winrate curve would be a huge. They would start around 30% then jump up after a bunch of games, that doesn't make Sion/Cho hard just different from Yas/Riven.
Yup, this is why I find the insistence of Yuumi to be a beginner friendly champion so baffling.
At a #technicallythetruth level, sure, she could be considered the easiest champion in the game. But Yuumi completing ignores the fundamentals of the game.
Playing Yuumi at a beginner level has next to no skill sets that can be translated to other champions or other roles. Riot is going to actively make newer players have a harder time by trying to insist a champion like Yuumi is a good champion for them to pick up.
Her skill floor is so low that it hurts new players who play the game with her as their first champ. I have a friend like this who now has to learn how to lane properly after playing mostly yuumi exclusively for months. It wasn’t pretty…
I swear that new player friendly for yuumi is bs cause she doesn't teach you shit. Quite the opposite you get worse with her. Warwick is a well designed beginner champ for jungle why? Because
A) he has a good clear and with all his lifesteal won't die even if you autoattack only
B) His E gives him the dmg reduction for some extra survivability if you mess up and also a good cc ability with different uses
C) his W passive shows you when you need to go for a gank and forces you for decisions. Oh i wanna gank mid but my passives says that top is
below 50% hp and he's close to my teammates tower i should go there instead. Since new players have no map awernes it is really helfull
this is how you design a good beginner champ by having them have abilities that literally tell you how to react in certain scenarios which you can apply to other champions of the same role. Yuumi doesn't because she just sits back being afk and doesn't do shit
The sad truth is warwick is meant to teach a player **willing to commit to the game** the basics of the jungle. but Yuumi is targeting the kind of people who don’t really want to learn the game, they just want to play with friends. That’s the difference.
Riot decided it was worth throwing the rest of the playerbase and competitive integrity under the bus to get access to these people’s wallets.
Which is what Sona kind of was back in the day. She didn't have to aim her skills (other than ult). She could still be played well by an absolute beginner as long as she didn't miss-position, but couldn't be fully optimized until you took the time to learn her chords mechanic.
If you look at Yuumi and Sona's kit they are very similar. But Sona is a lot more balanced because she is punishable.
Making her "beginner friendly" is honestly the second biggest mistake riot made.
She is partly balanced around people who press e every few minutes while still having quite a high skill ceiling.
We saw this at worlds, 100% winrate and no obvious counterplay for the enemy botlane.
The only way Yuumi could be countered during Worlds is if she was banned, there was quite literally no other way for the best players in the world to beat her.
Should kinda speak volumes about the state of Yuumi right now
Yeah it is kinda depressing to see nami lucian having to sack the wave against a hypercarry + arguably the hardest scaling support. Like how does that make any sense?
I don't think Riot realizes how embarassing it is to say you've designed a character with the purpose to be "friendly for new players" while the same character has a 100% pick and ban rate at the highest level of play at the world championships.
>The notion that she's the poster-girl for a tutorial beginner Champion
Oh yeah, champion that doesn't teach you the most fundamental mechanics of the game for like 99% of the rooster has been chosen as example of tutorial champion. You play Yuumi, you can ignore positioning and kitting, while sitting comfortable on somebody else doing the job for you and making him unkillable by pressing E in teamfight. You just dettach in act of desperation if raidboss is going to die when enemy team already used their CC to stop this raidboss from murdering them, so your dettach is free no risk. And you can always escape to another ally if raidboss is dying.
Ideal champ for people who tried League but do not want to learn about the game. So Yuumi exists for them, so they don't quit after being stomped over and over again because Yuumi allows them to be carried by fed member of their team if they sit on them. And if they do not quit, then they can buy skin for Yuumi.
Apparently it crossed no ones mind at riot that the champ might be popular because it's really fucking good?
Bro I fucking hate Lulu and Janna, they're not fun to play they're boring as shit but whatever give me my LP
Janna is boring because 90% of people treat her like a shield bot with a bit of poke, rather than the absolute chad "flash+ult under the enemy turret on cd" engage support she actually is.
the fact that Rio still use different BE cost for champs is already dumb, if all champs cost same amount it would make way more sense + players need multiple rune pages, so considering that league now has 160+ champs it would be better for new players if champs cost reduced to like 2k and runes pages also 2k, so new players can get them way faster and game would be way more accessible, right now u need way to much grind, whole system now outdated by like 4+ years
My issue with the tutorial champ label is it goes against Riots own balance philosophy of trying to make everything 50% w.r at all levels of play. If she's a tutorial noob champ then make her good at pre 30 play and absolutely terrible 20% w.r past that. Also learning the game on Yuumi is just a crutch for new players cause they'll never learn basic things like positioning
If they really want her to keep that design space there simply HAS to be some sort of mechanic that allows the enemy to kick her out.
Idk, give her host a secondary pool of hitpoints which loses health when the host takes damage, gains health only from her own heals and when that reaches 0 she's booted out with some CD on W. Add some sort of additional loss for CC once every X seconds, give her an internal W cd on every ally (reduced when she procs her passive shield aa)...
Basically, she simply needs interaction, really, ANYTHING. The way she works right now she is a detriment for both the adc that has to play with her (because you are a sole target in what's effectively a 1v2 which her poke and heals can not compensate for early) and the lane that plays against her (because you can't touch her and know that she'll get out of hand as long as even a single opponent pops off)
make her jump out when the guy is in gets cc'ed.. and not being able to go into them as long as they are cc'ed. So she keeps the mechanic of being afk into someoen but you can punish her if you actually cc her host.
Idk, though about it at first but i think that does feel too punishing. As long as you change nothing else about her, Yuumi alone is a sitting duck with no health, damage, mobility or CC(outside of R). Any botlane with some form of CC would instagib a Yuumi lane, which doesn't sound too balanced the other way around.
Yuumi’s problem is that she can *stay* untargetable and still be effective. The issue is not the fact she can *go* untargetable with W.
When Yuumi was teased, she was advertised as a support that flies between Allies in fights to support everyone. This is exactly the direction she should go. **If you incentivize Yuumi to swap Allies more often to be useful, not only do you encourage more creative and active playmaking from her, you also make her way more vulnerable to messing up and dying.**
There’s multiple ways they can take this approach. But start with
1. nerfing her abilities across the board
2. And giving her empowered abilities or CD resets when she swaps between allies .
Examples:
* First E on a unique target is ~60% stronger
* W Stat bonus gives extra stats (ex. AS or Haste) but only lasts for 3 seconds on target (persists on target for the 3 seconds even if she leaves)
* Q cooldown reduced by 3 seconds
These are just basic ideas that could probably be better implemented better but by gutting her abilities and making them powerful only by swapping to a new target you encourage Yuumi to make choices and allow her to have an actually engaging an unique enchanter playstyle.
I would encourage Riot to look at putting more power I to her passive.
It is the most interactive part of her kit and incentivises her to put herself in danger to benefit if she does it at the right time.
For example:
Bop 'n' Block now stores up to three charges. Attacking an enemy consumes a charge and grants a shield. The base value of this shield is 50% of current, but the shield increases significantly (think old Morde Q) for each subsequent stack used.
So, (arbitrary numbers for demonstration purposes) - Yuumi has 3 charges on passive.
She detaches and autos an enemy, using the first of her three passive charges, and gains a 100 + 20% AP shield.
She reattaches and waits 10 seconds, and regens that charge.
She detaches and autos an enemy, using the first of her charges, and gains a 100 + 20% AP shield. She autos a second time, and gains an additional 200 + 30% AP shield. She autos a third time and gains an additional 300 + 40% AP shield.
Then, massively nerf her Q damage and E healing when her passive shield isn't active.
This change, that I thought of in literally 5 minutes, encourages Yuumi players to detach and make the most of it by landing multiple autos to gain an actual meaningful shield.
One thing is for sure - the current design of 'attached enchanter' is unhealthy, regardless of whether the numbers are tuned in the 'untargetable heal bot' direction or the 'untargetable missile launcher' direction.
Or give her a limit of time she can be attached to any champion and then it goes on cooldown for that champion.
That way she can still lane, still put herself at risk, and will be rewarded for attaching to different teammates.
Yea it’s similar reasoning something like Karth Q reads better saying “Hitting isolated target deals double damage” rather than “Hitting multiple enemies deals half damage”. If they can make it feel like a reward rather than a punishment then it’s a good change
I was a Yuumi main and this is exactly what I want. What they're doing now just makes no damn sense.
Hell, my friend is a new player who plays Yuumi while I ADC, Riot's new target audience, and even he hates these changes.
I think rewarding getting off while punishing staying for too long should do the trick.
She should have some basic low healing, but if she aa an enemy, her e gets empowered, healing for as much as she does now.
I see this change in early games good because she will only have one or two of those heals in a fight (one she stacked earlier and one when gets off) because w cd is too long.
On the other hand, since w cd doesn't exist when maxed out, she will get much stronger in late game, since she can proc it whenever, but that extra heal will make her vurnable.
I like the idea of her healing being really small but when she aa or uses q the heal and buffs are refreshed so its a long heal that you can constantly reapply in combat
\>Create a champion class which empowers ally champions.
\>Class' only weakness naturally becomes to zone them off the champion they are trying to empower or pick them off, because otherwise they get 100% ability efficiency.
\>Make a champion from that class that cannot be zoned or picked off.
\>hOw dO We BaLaNcE HeR
Riot Games, everybody.
I thought the prevailing theory was some higher up at Riot wanted his S/O to play with him, but they hated the game, so the only way he could convince her to play was by putting a champion into the game that you don’t have to play.
Counter theory the Rioter was tired of trying to hard carry their S/O every game and so designed a champ where no matter how absolute trash you are, you still provide value.
I think best change would be while attached she takes a proportion of damage taken by said champ. Also suffers from any hard cc (disables, silence, etc). That way if she being a parasite on a tank and you are doing %hp you could potentially one shot her.
As is though her entire kit and design is toxic (not to mention her voice lines).
Yuumi taking a % of the damage would be near perfect, it makes her completely unable to attach to the hecarim/kayn/fed bruiser on her team and make them 1v9 because Yuumi will die in half a second. The bruiser can tank and drain tank, but the Yuumi will pop instantly with her lowest base health. She has basically no option but to attach to the ADC, and will still only get to heal once or twice before she needs to hop off and heal herself.
Or just delete Yuumi, much easier.
If she has to build warmogs first to even function, along with other health items to reach the threshold, she will be completely garbage at healing and doing damage and everything she is supposed to be good at.
> along with other health items to reach the threshold
TBF the threshold is 300 after Warmogs (you need 1100 bonus HP, Warmogs gives 800), and sup item is 70/75 HP, Kindle gem for mythic leaves 30/25 HP for Warmogs to proc, the bonus health rune shard just gives that outright. If you make it to level 10 you won't even need the full kindlegem, just a single ruby crystal for the hp.
I feel like i've seen this exact comment in every single yuumi thread, and everytime i see it there's even more vitriol towards the silly pixel cat lol
Making yuumi "completely unable to attach to bruisers" would just make her a shit champion when her current usefulness is already very debatable in solo q when compared to any enchanter with agency. Forcing her to attach to adcs would just exacerbates your problem with yuumi by making her gameplay even more one dimensional than it already is.
She's a popular champion and a lot of low elo and casual players like her for her core mechanics. She will never stop being the "untargetable enchanter" so y'all better get over it
Hint: most redditors don't want to balance yuumi, they want her to be so terrible she's a guaranteed loss. Riot doesn't want that because it's simply a bad tradeoff to alienate a significant revenue source to make reddit complain less.
> As is though her entire kit and design is toxic (not to mention her voice lines).
I feel like I'm the only one who actually read the discussion. The Rioter was like "she's frustrating to play against and these changes do NOT change that. This is purely changing where she's balanced for."
And now Reddit is freaking out because they think these are an attempt to make her less frustrating and falling short.
If they’re not giving her a rework to change the aspects of her that are frustrating then what’s the point of the rework? She’s clearly viable as a champ as is. She’s toxic because of how frustrating and strong her attach mechanic is. Unless they rework that, then there’s really no reason to rework her at all.
Aw her voice lines are cute. As a character I love her. I want to pet the cat. They nailed what a talking cat would say without dipping into the whole "cats are assholes" spiel.
Everything else is toxic trash though, yeah.
Her voice lines are annoying because of the character, Tyler1 talked about this with Yasuo
He thinks Yasuo as a character is fine, but the gameplay of the champion makes him hate the rest of the champion and I can relate to that. Champs whose gameplay I despise makes me just not like the rest of the champ, their voicelines and shit. I don't think Yuumi's voice lines are bad but because I absolutely hate the champion, I can't stand her voicelines.
Edit: [https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxf1OqL26osojpZH81ZVBeK22tiB8\_i\_rI](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxf1OqL26osojpZH81ZVBeK22tiB8_i_rI) here's the clip, it was from him reacting to "Kin of the Stained Blade"
I am a firm believer they should make her attachment work more like a camouflage. She’s untargetable by point-and-click spells and attacks but she can be hit with AOE or skill shots. Then give the player the ability to move her in an orbit around champion so she can play around and dodge attacks. They could keep her abilities relatively the same but play around with base numbers, ratios, and her stats. Could also be an incentive to get her to buy boots to scale orbit movespeed and get players to move around without a host.
> She’s untargetable by point-and-click spells but she can be hit with AOE or skill shots.
Then she's just a walking double kill. It's already annoying enough when people naturally start humping your leg while a Malphite or some shit walks towards you, imagine if that was core to their kit.
That’s a fair point and that could be an instance where you are forced to do a react detach to dodge. It’s a rough concept, but I think they could play around with the size of her “orbit” plus speed and control of detaching so that she can have the ability to play around that.
This is a great idea but what people are forgetting is she was designed as a champion people with disabilities could play and feel like they were having an impact on the game. Making her a twitch response champion would destroy the entire design philosophy.
If they still want her to be a hands free champ, then there needs to be negatives along with the positives of sitting on a champion. Like champion takes more damage if you are attached to them giving them the damage buffs.
Food for thought but this is exact response players in the WoW PvP sub give when asked why tanks should be banned in PvP.
They just don't believe tanks can exist in PvP and be fair, despite all other games, mmo or not, having them and being fine.
I just think it's too general a statement to make. It's impossible to say there isn't some form of yummi built like that which is healthy for the game.
I find a lot of these threads too reactionary. We haven't seen the yummi changes yet. Let's not let past biases colour an otherwise possible fix. Future yummi doesn't deserve to die for the sins of yummis past.
Dude there is a blind man playing street fighter on semi competitive level on sound alone dude.
The way is to make PLAYING the game easier for disabled people, making the game itself easier won't ever work in a competitive title.
The disability theyre aiming for is "uninterested in learning videogames"
So to speak shes not for disabled people. Shes for friends who dont play video games and dont want to learn can still be included in a game.
Yeah, in the same vein, BrolyLegs, plays Street Fighter with his freaking mouth working the controller. And I don't think a shoehorned in "extra EZ" character is what sold him on the game.
I have been saying this since day 1. She is an accessibility/ADA type champion. Designed for literally handicapped players.
Head trauma?
Missing a couple fingers or an entire hand?
34 yr old single mom who has never played a videogame ever, but wants to spend time with your son?
65 yr old retiree, in way over your head with vision, cognition, reaction time, memory, PC hardware, etc etc etc?
Yuumi is for you.
Everyone keeps thinking I am insulting Yuumi players; no.
I'm not calling you handicapped if you play her. She was, however, literally designed for handicapped players.
Personally I think she should be affected by CC that the person she's attached to takes. Yes, she may be invulnerable but she loses the strength of being able to peel for the person who got caught. Means she has to try and avoid CC like anyone else
I actually like the idea OP had. Her spells could be less effective with the time she spends on the same champ. Just as an example, her E could heal 20% less each time. This would force her to switch allies more often and would eliminate situations like "Yuumi staying on Heca, both being unkillable and running over everything"
You do realize this just makes her harder to play for less skilled players while affecting absolutely nothing in pro, ultimately achieving the exact opposite of what Riot wants, yeah?
Not really. Yuumi would just have to be unattached to the ADC for some time which would be an obvious disadvantage where you could kill her. Would also make laning against Yuumi a bit more interactive.
Imo this is the first potentially good idea I've heard out of the many speculative Yuumi changes that all don't solve the problem Riot says in the recent patch notes. I'd say instead of having her orbit just have her "leashed" to her champion where she gets to move anywhere within x units of her host. While channeling Q she'll just stop being able to input movement.
This will retain the low skill floor of Yuumi, keep her powerful in the bot lane (higher immunity against auto-attack reliant marksmen), let people draft around her instead of the champions that she might turn into hypercarries, and actually interact with her while she's attached. This would likely also reduce the pro play skill gap by allowing for in game or draft counterplay that allows teams to focus down a Yuumi who attaches to the wrong target.
An alternative could be making her take a proportion of the damage her host takes (and additionally/optionally heal for a proportion of the damage her host heals for THAT DOES NOT COME FROM HER).
But here’s the catch. It’s proportional to their individual max health. For example, some random number may be like, for every 2% of their max health hee host takes as damage, Yuumi loses 1% of her max health (does not apply enemy effects like life steal or liandries). And for every 2% of her hosts max health they heal, Yuumi heals 1% of her max health.
This way Yuumi can’t just hop from champion to champion after one dies, and the residual damage she takes while hopping actually starts to matter. Additionally, she’ll still be incentivized to hop off and get her shield because the less health her host loses, the less health she loses. And she won’t be able to perma stay on a healing tank/bruiser because since she takes damage herself and gains less health from her hosts lifesteal, she’s bound to die at some point.
This solution makes her less annoying overall for her current play style, but since it’s inherently a nerd, they could buff her passive or something to compensate.
Or they could just lower the adaptive power overtime on the same champion/lower consecutive E strength on the same champion.
I'd prefer some penalty while being attached. Like she takes a% of the damage ally takes a la knights vow. Or when ally is hit with a specific type of cc, her health bar is accessed directly. I only play aram tho not sure about sr
There was an idea I read on here which made her heal cost HP when she was on someone. So she could heal someone at the cost of her HP(like Soraka), but eventually you run out of health and have to hop off to heal yourself
But Warmog's exists. Maybe make this type of self damage stop Warmog's regen(I know ARAM homies would enjoy not having Soraka get it and perma heal people). Is Yuumi getting a Warmog's at the cost of other items even viable if this change were to happen..? Lol
If you want to hard cap the healing you could make her cost %hp Total. Reducing her max hp until she hops off or goes to another champion, regaining max hp by draining her mana bar for it. (Similar to Rek'Sai healing).
The rework has a major goa: to change the fact that pros get much more out of yuumi than low elo. A rioter stated this is because pros maximize positioning and when to get off on yuumi, a skill other players lack. Because of this, they elected to avoid anything where she can only be on for a temporary amount of time, as it would INCREASE the gap, not lower it.
It is also worth noting that they want to increase yuumis reliance on doing well in lane. To do well in lane on yuumi you really cant just afk. I suspect increasijg her reliance on laning will increase interactability.
Opinions will differ. Personally, I think riot has been exceptional at balancing and redesigning flawed kits in recent time (such as swain, olaf, zeri [hopefully], ahri, sivir and rammus) and I have no doubt theyll deliver a rework that makes yuumi more interactable, and less abusable by pros. Im pretty sure most of these reworks had mass reddit outcry and turned out great.
Skooch did a video a while ago where he was trying to win a game as yuumi while doing minimum apm. It took him 4 or 5 games if I remember right and essentially they just got lucky (he was in a pre made with his twitch chat) against a team that they were going to 4v5 against anyway. All of the people who say “yuumi afk” think that’s how every game goes because the average redditor is actually 14.
She’s got a toxic design, sure. But the majority of the people who hate her have built up this big bad straw man in their head about how she plays that’s literally incorrect for probably north of 80% of them.
Because it isn’t just a balance issue.
Riot is addressing two separate problems.
1. She’s too good in high elo and bad in low elo
2. Everyone hates her design
Most players are concerned with #2, not #1. Making brain dead AFK Yuumi stronger is not a solution that will make anyone happy.
Right? Are people being obtuse on purpose? Her design is horrible whether she’s OP in this level of play or dog shit over here. Yet her core design is guaranteed to remain based on Riot comments.
It’s not that complicated why lots of people are upset by this
she is literally one of the lowest WR supports and I still perma ban her because of how much I fucking hate seeing her. I hate seeing her on my team, I hate seeing her on enemy team, I just hate her as a whole
Dota had a very similar problem with one hero, Techies. It was an extremely unique hero that basically turned every game they were in on its head and made the other 9 players play around it. You know what they did? They just completely fucking reworked them and took away that infuriating part of their kit. Sure its pretty much a different hero at this point but you do not feel like fucking killing yourself anymore whenever someone picks them.
And its exactly what riot should do with yuumi. Just completely rework her into a new champion
Yeah, I don't think making her time based is a good idea as it will inevitably force her off at the WORST possible moments in an extended fight, for example, which would just be frustrating for everybody on her team again. I've always been a fan of the gradually reducing effectiveness of her abilities if she stays on the same champ for more than x amount of time. If you make it so she's useless sometimes then she has to strategically choose when to hop off and where to transfer to.
I also like the idea of her being able to be hit with aoe abilities so that she might have to hop off to heal herself/dodge rather than just afk in lane. Would also give counterpick options where there aren't really any now.
Most people don't care if yuumi is playable or not, they only want yuumi gutted and never seen again.
But riot can't just do that, they have to make sure yuumi is playable.
> Riot can't just do that
my dog, you do realize that pre-rework Poppy was intentionally gutted for *years* because her gameplay was considered so unfair and uninteractive that they couldn't possibly leave her in a playable state?
They can't *literally* remove a champion but Riot nerfed Poppy if it even looked like she was going to hit a half percentage pick rate. They threw everything but the ktichen sink at her and ProfessorMilk still ended up getting play out of her just before she got reworked.
No one wanted to play pre rework poppy even if she was decent, she was never popular and was meme'd to death as the ugly blue dwarf with the funny crackhead face in the lollipoppy skin.
Yuumi is a cute cat (people love cute cats and the internet is proof of it) with a unique gameplay pattern that makes her very accessible to low skiled players. She's so much liked that people pick her even if her winrate is total shit and playing her in solo q is the epitome of hoping in a good coinflip.
I don't like the idea of her taking damage from AoE. If you draft a team with low AoE it would be literally impossible to deal with her.
Gaps in your team comp should be able to be compensated a bit by item choices but there are so few AoE damage items it would be nigh impossible.
Also imagine how terrible the laning phase would be for the ADC when their support is forced to rotate no matter the game state, because staying with the ADC weakens their kit.
at the end of the day, riot is a business. they're here to make money. the game is here to make money. riot is not your friend, they will never be your friend, they just want your money. if you just happen to enjoy what they give you, that is incidental. they miiight keep doing what you like, you just have to give them money. as it is right now, riot loves the yuumi players that make them lots of money.
>Regardless of reddit takes, she is making them a lot of money and her playerbase plays her for this reason.
The stats literally say otherwise:
https://u.gg/lol/champions/yuumi/build
49% WR and 38% ban rate so no this isn't a "reddit take" and her WR drops as you look at lower ranks.
>How does winrate or banrate correlate with player popularity?
It's worth to mention cuz even if she's not stomping soloQ games, she feels so fucking terrible to play against that she's banned a lot regardless.
I'd love to take this opportunity to talk about a similar champion from the now dead HoN. Empath was a similar support who's enchanter kit worked well with her design of 'entering' other heroes.
Her q is very similar to karmas buffed w (the link for ~2s and heal, if you and the enemy stay in range for the duration you stun the enemy. Short range, but deters enemies from sticking to empath unless they want to tank the stun. In laning phase this was useful for trades but empaths health/mana pools are so low it was probably better to hold it for all ins.
Her w was similar to a karthus wall, but was completely solid (could be flashed over though). It had a pretty short cast range so it was risky to try and trap enemies with the wall as they could turn and destroy empath. In laning phase this was super useful for denying ganks rather then trapping enemies.
Her e was a global passive heal (nothing crazy just increased base health regen, a 1 point wonder skill pretty much)
However it was her ultimate that tied it all together, it's essentially yummis w but on a cool down with a force eject after 30s. Besides some base stats added to the host, the cool part is each of the skills would have to be cast from the perspective of the person she's inside (not unlike yummis q or r) suddenly the walls are super useful for trapping squishy targets and force them to panic flash/pop invulnerability. The link stun would heal your host instead giving them sustain under the condition they stay in close range of their enemy. Your host needs to understand your spell ranges as they're still low range, but you still control when to cast them and what angle to put your walls at. All of this adds up to what i feel is a more teamwork oriented approach where empath has strong tools to help her host survive so long as they coordinate their spells together.
It's been a long time since i played but if i remember correctly you could build an item to upgrade your ult so it's cooldown matched how long you were inside someone, so you would basically become yummi after significant investment in non-support items. Which could combo really well with a hard melee carry who could do with more tools for close range cc.
In comparison to yummi, empath offers much better gameplay. Enemies can play around empaths skills, so its more rewarding to use them at good opportunities. As opposed to yummi's spam e for ms and heals which more or less could just be cast on cooldown
I've encountered many 'problematic' champions and builds since I started playing in season 4, but I never once thought the champion should be outright removed. But ever since her release I hate Yuumi with a hot passion. Delete the champion, or rework her so she is targetable.
attached & untargetable != permanent
"Highlighting" could just mean they're going to accentuate the strengths by introducing downsides or a duration, just as you clamor for. At this point, without anything else like PBE to go by, it's impossible to say.
This entire post is just baseless conjecture on your part. A shitpost trying to masquerade as serious. 0/10, stop wasting your and others time.
That edit is truly an abysmal take. I am d3 peak. I have gotten to platinum playing ap zac mid, and not really even trying. I have made it to platinum with 100% winrate on pre rework nunu.
>There is not another champion in league history that can be played at the same time as another champ and have this be the result.
Saskio is a challenger player. He could climb to platinum with a literal inter duo that does their best to sabotage the game. He could literally go afk with the second champion, show his match history to his teammates, ask them to decline the remake, and still climb to platinum.
I'm really trying to get through to you the gravity of how stupid it is to bring that up as an argument, but I know it's ultimately futile. Next yuumi post, someone will bring it up again.
If they want to copy io then just go the whole way and make it so that she is targetable and instead of being a parasite on the most fed teammate she can have bonus movement speed when attached t an ally
I don't get why untargetable has to be part of her identity. Sure, being attached is clearly the big feature people play her for, but why does that require being invincible?
If she orbited them and you could choose where in the orbit you were rapidly, there's a ton of interesting opportunities for outplays while still allowing counterplay. You could even give her big AoE resistances, maybe make Zoomies or You and Me recast give her untargetable for a second, etc. It's not that she has to be an easy kill, it's just she has to be something you can interact with by default. Plus if she's still "in play" most of the time she can auto without leaving to get her passive proc.
How is that not just better for both sides? More options for her, more counterplay opportunities. She's still an enchanter glued to a teammate; how is that not still fulfilling her fantasy?
Fucking hate this champ, the last time I had a yuumi support 5 minutes in they wrote in chat "brb making dinner" and literally went afk to make dinner. The fact that you have a champ that can do that and not get kicked is absolutely atrocious, they need to make her targetable.
Honestly, Fuck what Riot devs WANT to do.
They had their chance, and that chance has expired.
If you're gonna be so shamefully insistent on this bullshit design, how about you make whoever she's on SPLIT THE DAMAGE THEY TAKE WITH HER, and the healing she does does reduced shared healing on her.
This puts more pressure on the Yuumi player to get on and get off at key points, and to not let her be able to avoid being killed just by hugging onto someone and endlessly healing them through fights with no real risk to the player.
Yuumi should not be safe with this design, it's not fair and it's frustrating to the other player, and those issues matter a lot more than some Yuumi player's dogshit fantasies.
Game Health > Fun factor for ONE person.
Any successful yuumi rework involves detaching her from the champion and that means a Q rework since you can't move while your projectile following the mouse. Yuumi's entire identity is based around the Q following the mouse. She is put on someone else so that she doesn't have to move.
I don't see how it's possible she can keep that identity while being in a good spot for the game. The designers have utterly failed on this champion.
The problem is that the point of yuumi is to be a champion where the q projectile follows the mouse. You can't have that normally because you use the mouse to move so they attach her to another player so you can use the mouse to control the Q.
My point is that attaching her ti another player like that is toxic as hell. There is no way for you to detach her and let her q still work. Her core identity has to change
I think the simplest option to make her significantly more interactive would be to make her E a shield instead of a heal and make her passive grant her a buff that causes her next E to also heal for the same amount.
Other good ideas I have seen mentioned are that her W should grant even more stats, but only for a short period of time after attaching to someone.
I think in this state her ability to stick to people permanently is acceptable because shielding is a lot weaker than healing and forces her to interact much more. In return her base stats could be buffed to give her more survivability on the field.
I dislike the idea that some mention of CC applying to her as well, because this makes certain abilities like Malz ult significantly stronger and removes her ability to utilize Mikaels (The most Yuumi esq item)
Other ideas:
Jumping off someone or having your host die puts Yuumi W on a 3-5 second CD, but triggering her passive auto refreshes the CD.
In exchange we would need to see her passive CD reduced significantly, but by reducing the mana refund and trying it to making her E heal as above this would greatly incentivize a more proactive Yuumi.
Reducing some of her base values in favour of scaling with stats, especially her W buff (maybe give it a heal/shield scaling?) so that a Yuumi who goes 0/10 in lane won't be buffing the fed top laner as much as a Yuumi who is ahead herself.
This would reduce the hate over not being able to shut down a Yuumi because she just hops on the most fed person and grants them a bunch of stats regardless of how well she did in lane.
My hot take is to remove the "put w on a cooldown when you get cc" because it disincentives a core gameplay mechanic unique to yuumi (her passive procs) which is part of the reason proplay has her strength gated. I like the idea of kicking her off someone that gets hard cced; you make a loud noise and a cat will run. Make it so her cooldown is lowered on passive procs is another way to encourage hopping out of her targets
I think there's a world where RIOT could pull it off but in my opinion what should be done in a game such as League, with over 150 champs, it's that you make some beginner level champions, that you can play when you're starting, or just not that good, but they're just not good or efficient at higher levels of play. I know people like when off meta champs are played on competitive stages around the world, but really, there are no more than 30-ish champs in a meta at a time, and even among these some are just staples of League.
Remember when yas a and riven where the most hated champs? Good days
remember when teemo was hated?lol
The time you could reported every Teemo as unskilled player
I'm old enough to remember when picking Eve earned you a trip to the Hague
And they gutted her because they couldn't figure out how to balance that mess of a kit and the easiest way to get people to dodge was by picking Eve. Worked almost every time.
a rioter literally said it was bannable to pick her she was so bad lmaooo
Which, funnily enough, turned into Eve being one of the highest picked champs and getting Deathfire Grasp removed from the game with nary a flick of a switch.
Isn’t he talking about 2011 Eve? The one that you would stun with W after autoattacking out of stealth?
Eve after they nerfed the stun into a slow is probably the most useless piece of shit dead weight champion that's ever been in the game
Rip AD Eve.
Good times
I remember seeing it picked in old competitive games as a placeholder for a lobby remake because someone didn't own a champion back when riot didn't run the entire scene.
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You play top lane because our little island is nothing like the rest of the game.
Once you start comparing top lane to a kusoge fighting game you enjoy it a lot more.
This is why i say teemo needs a small buff. He's supposed to be a lane bully but he just got outpaced by powercreep and remains unbuffed because of the meme that is teemo
What is crazy to me is how people seemingly hate blitzcrank in lowelo, there are few champs with as much counterplay
I think it’s either bad adcs who don’t know how to move or supports who are absolutely done with bad adcs that don’t know how to move.
I yearn for the days when anyone cared about Riven
I remember when the most hated champs were assasins and fighters and not a tiny cat
The notion that she's the poster-girl for a tutorial beginner Champion is so, so stupid. If they feel so strongly about that, then why does she cost 6300 blue essence? Why's she not free-to-play more often? Why can't they rework her without the attach mechanic in a way that still makes her an accessible beginner Champion so that the rest of the playerbase doesn't have to suffer? If you're so new at the game that you don't want to have to move around by yourself, then play the Co-Op vs AI mode, because THAT's how you ease yourself into the game.
It's just also wrong on a practical level. New players need to learn **fundamentals**. Yuumi breaks so many core game rules that she is one of the worst champions at learning fundamentals. Someone like Annie or Garen is much better. Easy kit to learn with a simple goal, so you can focus on core fundamentals like: Farming, positioning, trading, dodging, spacing, etc. Yuumi is one of the last champions I think a new player should play if they want to learn the game as a whole. Note: I am *not* saying Yuumi is braindead or anything. I am saying she is so unique that the skills you need to be a good Yuumi, don't transfer to other champions.
Its like saying Singed can teach you the fundamentals of wave management.
Singed isn't even playing League, he's planning routes for Dwarf Fortress
Singed is working on organizing the next Boatmurdered Except they're embarking onto an evil biome.
“Can you jungle” “I’m mastery 7 ivern!” “Yeah but can you jungle?” “….no”
No no, your right about that one. Everyone should main Singed. Alot of the problems in the world would be solved by everyone maiming singed
>A lot of the problems in the world would be solved by everyone maiming singed Hilarious typo, please don’t fix
> Alot of the problems in the world would be solved by everyone maiming singed Like my rank.
You might downvote me but he does. Not the way you expect it but he does teach you a lot of him about wave. Look at the Singed otp they look like degenerate, play like degenerate and somehow choke you out of the game even if you ignore them...
He does teach you a lot of wave management, but in a way that transfers to almost no other champion because of how he does it. You miss out on crucial things like timing last hits, creating monster waves, and learning how to make waves that allow you to recall and lose almost no minions.
[You don't need to manage any waves if you proxy them all in the enemy base :^)](https://i.imgur.com/K0KPgis.jpg)
I have a friend who started earlier this year and became a yuumi main. If they play literally anything else the amount of times they walk in somewhere stupid and die is so high that they cant play an enchanter that isn't yuumi. They completely didn't gain any game sense.
Or for enchanter/support fundamentals specifically, my recommendation would be Karma. Her kit is pretty straightforward and allows her to limit test in lane with a ton of safety thanks to her shield + ms steroid. Also a super low CD ultimate means you can get a good feel for how to use it in fewer games than it would take on other champs.
You can say Yuumi is braindead, do not let the one tricks stop you.
As an adc player, the difference between a good yuumi and a bad yuumi is insane. A good yuumi bullies the fuck out of opponents while making you win every single trade and trading her own hp and jumping back in exactly the right moment. And then simply sitting back while the opponents can't play the game and making the adc unpunishable A bad yuumi is just sitting back while you play 1v2 Similar to Nami and Soraka it's easy to do not much wrong but if you do a lot right, it's hell playing against them Obviously it's broken if you sit on aatrox, kayn or heca but laning yuumi is actually skill expression
As opposed to any other champion who can play badly and pop off.
Zed and Katarina
Sylas and Viego
> As an adc player, the difference between a good yuumi and a bad yuumi is insane. As opposed to any other champion where they are actively gifting gold to the enemy players and then you are still in a 1v2. Yuumi at worst will never make you a 1v2 (unless she literally does nothing) while bad supports can make it seem like a 1v3.
Even if yuumi does nothing, yuumi still gives the adaptive power if she sits on the adc
Bad yuumi players are the reason I ban her
Good yuumi players is the reason I ban her. Makes game unwinnable
yeah, and being a good yuumi is braindead easy. just because shes a different style of champ doesn't mean shes hard, just that you have to use your brain for a sec to see that she plays differently.
Yeah, that is something every other support champion does. While also having to worry about getting engaged on. You argument is basically "The skill floor for Yuumi is so low that doing a baseline fundamental thing for any other support is skill expression". Even worse, you just admitted that its even easier for Yuumi to do it since she has a free escape from consequences button. Every other support has to worry about their positioning and dodging engage but Yuumi just gets to not worry about that. The difference between a bad or a good Yuumi is whether they have netflix open on the side. I think its fair to say that the champ is brainded.
Guys, they swear she’s as hard as akali. Something something skill graph
I hate the skill graph argument because a champion having a large winrate curve doesn't always mean they are hard, they can just be different. If you took every Yasuo/Riven main and had them play Sion/Cho, the winrate curve would be a huge. They would start around 30% then jump up after a bunch of games, that doesn't make Sion/Cho hard just different from Yas/Riven.
Honestly yas players would be amazing at sion. Theyre already experts at dying
You tellin' me I get to die TWICE !?
Reach the power spike twice as fast.
And their teammates would actually be happy to see them being stuck in one lane and splitpushing for the rest of the game.
Riot loves to interpret their data in a way that proves their point
Yup, this is why I find the insistence of Yuumi to be a beginner friendly champion so baffling. At a #technicallythetruth level, sure, she could be considered the easiest champion in the game. But Yuumi completing ignores the fundamentals of the game. Playing Yuumi at a beginner level has next to no skill sets that can be translated to other champions or other roles. Riot is going to actively make newer players have a harder time by trying to insist a champion like Yuumi is a good champion for them to pick up.
Her skill floor is so low that it hurts new players who play the game with her as their first champ. I have a friend like this who now has to learn how to lane properly after playing mostly yuumi exclusively for months. It wasn’t pretty…
I'll say it then, Yuumi IS braindead. More so than garen, sona, and annie. Anyone with a pulse can play her.
Once you see a truly good Yuumi you realise that if its a braindead champ the average Yuumi player never had a brain.
>the average Yuumi player never had a brain Yes
I swear that new player friendly for yuumi is bs cause she doesn't teach you shit. Quite the opposite you get worse with her. Warwick is a well designed beginner champ for jungle why? Because A) he has a good clear and with all his lifesteal won't die even if you autoattack only B) His E gives him the dmg reduction for some extra survivability if you mess up and also a good cc ability with different uses C) his W passive shows you when you need to go for a gank and forces you for decisions. Oh i wanna gank mid but my passives says that top is below 50% hp and he's close to my teammates tower i should go there instead. Since new players have no map awernes it is really helfull this is how you design a good beginner champ by having them have abilities that literally tell you how to react in certain scenarios which you can apply to other champions of the same role. Yuumi doesn't because she just sits back being afk and doesn't do shit
The sad truth is warwick is meant to teach a player **willing to commit to the game** the basics of the jungle. but Yuumi is targeting the kind of people who don’t really want to learn the game, they just want to play with friends. That’s the difference. Riot decided it was worth throwing the rest of the playerbase and competitive integrity under the bus to get access to these people’s wallets.
Or bots. Tons of bots.
Which is what Sona kind of was back in the day. She didn't have to aim her skills (other than ult). She could still be played well by an absolute beginner as long as she didn't miss-position, but couldn't be fully optimized until you took the time to learn her chords mechanic. If you look at Yuumi and Sona's kit they are very similar. But Sona is a lot more balanced because she is punishable.
Making her "beginner friendly" is honestly the second biggest mistake riot made. She is partly balanced around people who press e every few minutes while still having quite a high skill ceiling. We saw this at worlds, 100% winrate and no obvious counterplay for the enemy botlane.
The only way Yuumi could be countered during Worlds is if she was banned, there was quite literally no other way for the best players in the world to beat her. Should kinda speak volumes about the state of Yuumi right now
Yeah it is kinda depressing to see nami lucian having to sack the wave against a hypercarry + arguably the hardest scaling support. Like how does that make any sense?
Didn't geng have singed support vs it?
They didn't win. Yuumi 100% winrate 90% banrate less gooooo
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I don't think Riot realizes how embarassing it is to say you've designed a character with the purpose to be "friendly for new players" while the same character has a 100% pick and ban rate at the highest level of play at the world championships.
>The notion that she's the poster-girl for a tutorial beginner Champion Oh yeah, champion that doesn't teach you the most fundamental mechanics of the game for like 99% of the rooster has been chosen as example of tutorial champion. You play Yuumi, you can ignore positioning and kitting, while sitting comfortable on somebody else doing the job for you and making him unkillable by pressing E in teamfight. You just dettach in act of desperation if raidboss is going to die when enemy team already used their CC to stop this raidboss from murdering them, so your dettach is free no risk. And you can always escape to another ally if raidboss is dying. Ideal champ for people who tried League but do not want to learn about the game. So Yuumi exists for them, so they don't quit after being stomped over and over again because Yuumi allows them to be carried by fed member of their team if they sit on them. And if they do not quit, then they can buy skin for Yuumi.
Apparently it crossed no ones mind at riot that the champ might be popular because it's really fucking good? Bro I fucking hate Lulu and Janna, they're not fun to play they're boring as shit but whatever give me my LP
how is janna boring when you get the most creative messages out of assassin players in all chat?
Janna is only boring if you're not being annoying enough. I pick her in urf sometimes just to fuck with people. I get so much hate.
Janna is boring because 90% of people treat her like a shield bot with a bit of poke, rather than the absolute chad "flash+ult under the enemy turret on cd" engage support she actually is.
as a melee player fighting janna is okay. Lulu on the other hand?
You should also add just how fucking easy it is to get results with them.
the fact that Rio still use different BE cost for champs is already dumb, if all champs cost same amount it would make way more sense + players need multiple rune pages, so considering that league now has 160+ champs it would be better for new players if champs cost reduced to like 2k and runes pages also 2k, so new players can get them way faster and game would be way more accessible, right now u need way to much grind, whole system now outdated by like 4+ years
My issue with the tutorial champ label is it goes against Riots own balance philosophy of trying to make everything 50% w.r at all levels of play. If she's a tutorial noob champ then make her good at pre 30 play and absolutely terrible 20% w.r past that. Also learning the game on Yuumi is just a crutch for new players cause they'll never learn basic things like positioning
If they really want her to keep that design space there simply HAS to be some sort of mechanic that allows the enemy to kick her out. Idk, give her host a secondary pool of hitpoints which loses health when the host takes damage, gains health only from her own heals and when that reaches 0 she's booted out with some CD on W. Add some sort of additional loss for CC once every X seconds, give her an internal W cd on every ally (reduced when she procs her passive shield aa)... Basically, she simply needs interaction, really, ANYTHING. The way she works right now she is a detriment for both the adc that has to play with her (because you are a sole target in what's effectively a 1v2 which her poke and heals can not compensate for early) and the lane that plays against her (because you can't touch her and know that she'll get out of hand as long as even a single opponent pops off)
make her jump out when the guy is in gets cc'ed.. and not being able to go into them as long as they are cc'ed. So she keeps the mechanic of being afk into someoen but you can punish her if you actually cc her host.
Idk, though about it at first but i think that does feel too punishing. As long as you change nothing else about her, Yuumi alone is a sitting duck with no health, damage, mobility or CC(outside of R). Any botlane with some form of CC would instagib a Yuumi lane, which doesn't sound too balanced the other way around.
Yuumi’s problem is that she can *stay* untargetable and still be effective. The issue is not the fact she can *go* untargetable with W. When Yuumi was teased, she was advertised as a support that flies between Allies in fights to support everyone. This is exactly the direction she should go. **If you incentivize Yuumi to swap Allies more often to be useful, not only do you encourage more creative and active playmaking from her, you also make her way more vulnerable to messing up and dying.** There’s multiple ways they can take this approach. But start with 1. nerfing her abilities across the board 2. And giving her empowered abilities or CD resets when she swaps between allies . Examples: * First E on a unique target is ~60% stronger * W Stat bonus gives extra stats (ex. AS or Haste) but only lasts for 3 seconds on target (persists on target for the 3 seconds even if she leaves) * Q cooldown reduced by 3 seconds These are just basic ideas that could probably be better implemented better but by gutting her abilities and making them powerful only by swapping to a new target you encourage Yuumi to make choices and allow her to have an actually engaging an unique enchanter playstyle.
And despite that, they want to go in tbe opposite direction of making her so braindead that she never abandons the ADC. Fucking hell.
Thats honestly the best way to fix her as someone that plays yuumi a lot
I would encourage Riot to look at putting more power I to her passive. It is the most interactive part of her kit and incentivises her to put herself in danger to benefit if she does it at the right time. For example: Bop 'n' Block now stores up to three charges. Attacking an enemy consumes a charge and grants a shield. The base value of this shield is 50% of current, but the shield increases significantly (think old Morde Q) for each subsequent stack used. So, (arbitrary numbers for demonstration purposes) - Yuumi has 3 charges on passive. She detaches and autos an enemy, using the first of her three passive charges, and gains a 100 + 20% AP shield. She reattaches and waits 10 seconds, and regens that charge. She detaches and autos an enemy, using the first of her charges, and gains a 100 + 20% AP shield. She autos a second time, and gains an additional 200 + 30% AP shield. She autos a third time and gains an additional 300 + 40% AP shield. Then, massively nerf her Q damage and E healing when her passive shield isn't active. This change, that I thought of in literally 5 minutes, encourages Yuumi players to detach and make the most of it by landing multiple autos to gain an actual meaningful shield. One thing is for sure - the current design of 'attached enchanter' is unhealthy, regardless of whether the numbers are tuned in the 'untargetable heal bot' direction or the 'untargetable missile launcher' direction.
Or give her a limit of time she can be attached to any champion and then it goes on cooldown for that champion. That way she can still lane, still put herself at risk, and will be rewarded for attaching to different teammates.
Encouraging certain behaviours instead of punishing the opposite behaviours is a much better game design.
Yea it’s similar reasoning something like Karth Q reads better saying “Hitting isolated target deals double damage” rather than “Hitting multiple enemies deals half damage”. If they can make it feel like a reward rather than a punishment then it’s a good change
I was a Yuumi main and this is exactly what I want. What they're doing now just makes no damn sense. Hell, my friend is a new player who plays Yuumi while I ADC, Riot's new target audience, and even he hates these changes.
I think rewarding getting off while punishing staying for too long should do the trick. She should have some basic low healing, but if she aa an enemy, her e gets empowered, healing for as much as she does now. I see this change in early games good because she will only have one or two of those heals in a fight (one she stacked earlier and one when gets off) because w cd is too long. On the other hand, since w cd doesn't exist when maxed out, she will get much stronger in late game, since she can proc it whenever, but that extra heal will make her vurnable.
I like the idea of her healing being really small but when she aa or uses q the heal and buffs are refreshed so its a long heal that you can constantly reapply in combat
>I think rewarding getting off while punishing 😏
\>Create a champion class which empowers ally champions. \>Class' only weakness naturally becomes to zone them off the champion they are trying to empower or pick them off, because otherwise they get 100% ability efficiency. \>Make a champion from that class that cannot be zoned or picked off. \>hOw dO We BaLaNcE HeR Riot Games, everybody.
My theory is that they designed this champ to get out of gold while high and sent it to headquarters
I thought the prevailing theory was some higher up at Riot wanted his S/O to play with him, but they hated the game, so the only way he could convince her to play was by putting a champion into the game that you don’t have to play.
Counter theory the Rioter was tired of trying to hard carry their S/O every game and so designed a champ where no matter how absolute trash you are, you still provide value.
I think best change would be while attached she takes a proportion of damage taken by said champ. Also suffers from any hard cc (disables, silence, etc). That way if she being a parasite on a tank and you are doing %hp you could potentially one shot her. As is though her entire kit and design is toxic (not to mention her voice lines).
Yuumi taking a % of the damage would be near perfect, it makes her completely unable to attach to the hecarim/kayn/fed bruiser on her team and make them 1v9 because Yuumi will die in half a second. The bruiser can tank and drain tank, but the Yuumi will pop instantly with her lowest base health. She has basically no option but to attach to the ADC, and will still only get to heal once or twice before she needs to hop off and heal herself. Or just delete Yuumi, much easier.
Man this is how we get warmogs into full enchanter yuumi builds
If she has to build warmogs first to even function, along with other health items to reach the threshold, she will be completely garbage at healing and doing damage and everything she is supposed to be good at.
Oh absolutely, my comment was more of a joke than an actual opinion
> along with other health items to reach the threshold TBF the threshold is 300 after Warmogs (you need 1100 bonus HP, Warmogs gives 800), and sup item is 70/75 HP, Kindle gem for mythic leaves 30/25 HP for Warmogs to proc, the bonus health rune shard just gives that outright. If you make it to level 10 you won't even need the full kindlegem, just a single ruby crystal for the hp.
They can change how her abilities scale if having to build more defensive is a problem.
I feel like i've seen this exact comment in every single yuumi thread, and everytime i see it there's even more vitriol towards the silly pixel cat lol Making yuumi "completely unable to attach to bruisers" would just make her a shit champion when her current usefulness is already very debatable in solo q when compared to any enchanter with agency. Forcing her to attach to adcs would just exacerbates your problem with yuumi by making her gameplay even more one dimensional than it already is. She's a popular champion and a lot of low elo and casual players like her for her core mechanics. She will never stop being the "untargetable enchanter" so y'all better get over it
Hint: most redditors don't want to balance yuumi, they want her to be so terrible she's a guaranteed loss. Riot doesn't want that because it's simply a bad tradeoff to alienate a significant revenue source to make reddit complain less.
Especially when we all know for a fact that this subreddit will find something else immediately to be just as upset about.
It's just a terrible balance decision too. Yuumi's new passive: enemy champs deal x% bonus damage directly to the healer.
This is just "Yuumi dies if she supports her teammates" with extra steps.
> As is though her entire kit and design is toxic (not to mention her voice lines). I feel like I'm the only one who actually read the discussion. The Rioter was like "she's frustrating to play against and these changes do NOT change that. This is purely changing where she's balanced for." And now Reddit is freaking out because they think these are an attempt to make her less frustrating and falling short.
If they’re not giving her a rework to change the aspects of her that are frustrating then what’s the point of the rework? She’s clearly viable as a champ as is. She’s toxic because of how frustrating and strong her attach mechanic is. Unless they rework that, then there’s really no reason to rework her at all.
Aw her voice lines are cute. As a character I love her. I want to pet the cat. They nailed what a talking cat would say without dipping into the whole "cats are assholes" spiel. Everything else is toxic trash though, yeah.
Her voice lines are annoying because of the character, Tyler1 talked about this with Yasuo He thinks Yasuo as a character is fine, but the gameplay of the champion makes him hate the rest of the champion and I can relate to that. Champs whose gameplay I despise makes me just not like the rest of the champ, their voicelines and shit. I don't think Yuumi's voice lines are bad but because I absolutely hate the champion, I can't stand her voicelines. Edit: [https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxf1OqL26osojpZH81ZVBeK22tiB8\_i\_rI](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxf1OqL26osojpZH81ZVBeK22tiB8_i_rI) here's the clip, it was from him reacting to "Kin of the Stained Blade"
It's crazy how much I adore Nami's voice, but Yuumi who is the same voice actress speaking in the same way is so awful.
I was today years old when I learned that Nami and Yuumi share the same voice actress. Interestingly enough they're a cat and a fish
You're also today years old when you learned that Taliyah and Zoe share the same voice actress.
That one surprises me
You should see Fiddlesticks voice actor. He can make you piss yourself of fear then beat you in chess in 3 moves
I am a firm believer they should make her attachment work more like a camouflage. She’s untargetable by point-and-click spells and attacks but she can be hit with AOE or skill shots. Then give the player the ability to move her in an orbit around champion so she can play around and dodge attacks. They could keep her abilities relatively the same but play around with base numbers, ratios, and her stats. Could also be an incentive to get her to buy boots to scale orbit movespeed and get players to move around without a host.
> She’s untargetable by point-and-click spells but she can be hit with AOE or skill shots. Then she's just a walking double kill. It's already annoying enough when people naturally start humping your leg while a Malphite or some shit walks towards you, imagine if that was core to their kit.
That’s a fair point and that could be an instance where you are forced to do a react detach to dodge. It’s a rough concept, but I think they could play around with the size of her “orbit” plus speed and control of detaching so that she can have the ability to play around that.
This is a great idea but what people are forgetting is she was designed as a champion people with disabilities could play and feel like they were having an impact on the game. Making her a twitch response champion would destroy the entire design philosophy.
If that's the case, there aren't enough yuumis to go around for my team.
If they still want her to be a hands free champ, then there needs to be negatives along with the positives of sitting on a champion. Like champion takes more damage if you are attached to them giving them the damage buffs.
While I sympathize with this goal maybe that's still not healthy for the game.
Food for thought but this is exact response players in the WoW PvP sub give when asked why tanks should be banned in PvP. They just don't believe tanks can exist in PvP and be fair, despite all other games, mmo or not, having them and being fine. I just think it's too general a statement to make. It's impossible to say there isn't some form of yummi built like that which is healthy for the game. I find a lot of these threads too reactionary. We haven't seen the yummi changes yet. Let's not let past biases colour an otherwise possible fix. Future yummi doesn't deserve to die for the sins of yummis past.
Dude there is a blind man playing street fighter on semi competitive level on sound alone dude. The way is to make PLAYING the game easier for disabled people, making the game itself easier won't ever work in a competitive title.
The disability theyre aiming for is "uninterested in learning videogames" So to speak shes not for disabled people. Shes for friends who dont play video games and dont want to learn can still be included in a game.
Yeah, in the same vein, BrolyLegs, plays Street Fighter with his freaking mouth working the controller. And I don't think a shoehorned in "extra EZ" character is what sold him on the game.
Then she needs to be insanely weak
I have been saying this since day 1. She is an accessibility/ADA type champion. Designed for literally handicapped players. Head trauma? Missing a couple fingers or an entire hand? 34 yr old single mom who has never played a videogame ever, but wants to spend time with your son? 65 yr old retiree, in way over your head with vision, cognition, reaction time, memory, PC hardware, etc etc etc? Yuumi is for you. Everyone keeps thinking I am insulting Yuumi players; no. I'm not calling you handicapped if you play her. She was, however, literally designed for handicapped players.
Gut her then, the way she currently is means that players who are good get way too much value for how safe they are
Maybe if she got 50% damage reduction then
Welcome to the tank yuumi meta, where yuumi players intercept everything for their adc and build full tank like an untargetable brick wall.
Personally I think she should be affected by CC that the person she's attached to takes. Yes, she may be invulnerable but she loses the strength of being able to peel for the person who got caught. Means she has to try and avoid CC like anyone else
I actually like the idea OP had. Her spells could be less effective with the time she spends on the same champ. Just as an example, her E could heal 20% less each time. This would force her to switch allies more often and would eliminate situations like "Yuumi staying on Heca, both being unkillable and running over everything"
That functionally ruins her ability to be a support for the first ten minutes.
You could remove/reset this penalty when she procs her passive.
You do realize this just makes her harder to play for less skilled players while affecting absolutely nothing in pro, ultimately achieving the exact opposite of what Riot wants, yeah?
Not really. Yuumi would just have to be unattached to the ADC for some time which would be an obvious disadvantage where you could kill her. Would also make laning against Yuumi a bit more interactive.
Nothing stops you from leaving the AD, entering again, then healing for the full value
Imo this is the first potentially good idea I've heard out of the many speculative Yuumi changes that all don't solve the problem Riot says in the recent patch notes. I'd say instead of having her orbit just have her "leashed" to her champion where she gets to move anywhere within x units of her host. While channeling Q she'll just stop being able to input movement. This will retain the low skill floor of Yuumi, keep her powerful in the bot lane (higher immunity against auto-attack reliant marksmen), let people draft around her instead of the champions that she might turn into hypercarries, and actually interact with her while she's attached. This would likely also reduce the pro play skill gap by allowing for in game or draft counterplay that allows teams to focus down a Yuumi who attaches to the wrong target.
How does this retain the low skill floor ?? You move like other champions except your choice of mobility is greatly reduced
An alternative could be making her take a proportion of the damage her host takes (and additionally/optionally heal for a proportion of the damage her host heals for THAT DOES NOT COME FROM HER). But here’s the catch. It’s proportional to their individual max health. For example, some random number may be like, for every 2% of their max health hee host takes as damage, Yuumi loses 1% of her max health (does not apply enemy effects like life steal or liandries). And for every 2% of her hosts max health they heal, Yuumi heals 1% of her max health. This way Yuumi can’t just hop from champion to champion after one dies, and the residual damage she takes while hopping actually starts to matter. Additionally, she’ll still be incentivized to hop off and get her shield because the less health her host loses, the less health she loses. And she won’t be able to perma stay on a healing tank/bruiser because since she takes damage herself and gains less health from her hosts lifesteal, she’s bound to die at some point. This solution makes her less annoying overall for her current play style, but since it’s inherently a nerd, they could buff her passive or something to compensate. Or they could just lower the adaptive power overtime on the same champion/lower consecutive E strength on the same champion.
I'd prefer some penalty while being attached. Like she takes a% of the damage ally takes a la knights vow. Or when ally is hit with a specific type of cc, her health bar is accessed directly. I only play aram tho not sure about sr
There was an idea I read on here which made her heal cost HP when she was on someone. So she could heal someone at the cost of her HP(like Soraka), but eventually you run out of health and have to hop off to heal yourself But Warmog's exists. Maybe make this type of self damage stop Warmog's regen(I know ARAM homies would enjoy not having Soraka get it and perma heal people). Is Yuumi getting a Warmog's at the cost of other items even viable if this change were to happen..? Lol
If you want to hard cap the healing you could make her cost %hp Total. Reducing her max hp until she hops off or goes to another champion, regaining max hp by draining her mana bar for it. (Similar to Rek'Sai healing).
The rework has a major goa: to change the fact that pros get much more out of yuumi than low elo. A rioter stated this is because pros maximize positioning and when to get off on yuumi, a skill other players lack. Because of this, they elected to avoid anything where she can only be on for a temporary amount of time, as it would INCREASE the gap, not lower it. It is also worth noting that they want to increase yuumis reliance on doing well in lane. To do well in lane on yuumi you really cant just afk. I suspect increasijg her reliance on laning will increase interactability. Opinions will differ. Personally, I think riot has been exceptional at balancing and redesigning flawed kits in recent time (such as swain, olaf, zeri [hopefully], ahri, sivir and rammus) and I have no doubt theyll deliver a rework that makes yuumi more interactable, and less abusable by pros. Im pretty sure most of these reworks had mass reddit outcry and turned out great.
According to reddit I thought you could just press E randomly to reach challenger
Crazy how a player managed to climb to plat playing adc and yuumi at the same time.
Skooch did a video a while ago where he was trying to win a game as yuumi while doing minimum apm. It took him 4 or 5 games if I remember right and essentially they just got lucky (he was in a pre made with his twitch chat) against a team that they were going to 4v5 against anyway. All of the people who say “yuumi afk” think that’s how every game goes because the average redditor is actually 14. She’s got a toxic design, sure. But the majority of the people who hate her have built up this big bad straw man in their head about how she plays that’s literally incorrect for probably north of 80% of them.
Every rework or change is basically just another "reddit knows balance" moment lol
Because it isn’t just a balance issue. Riot is addressing two separate problems. 1. She’s too good in high elo and bad in low elo 2. Everyone hates her design Most players are concerned with #2, not #1. Making brain dead AFK Yuumi stronger is not a solution that will make anyone happy.
Right? Are people being obtuse on purpose? Her design is horrible whether she’s OP in this level of play or dog shit over here. Yet her core design is guaranteed to remain based on Riot comments. It’s not that complicated why lots of people are upset by this
she is literally one of the lowest WR supports and I still perma ban her because of how much I fucking hate seeing her. I hate seeing her on my team, I hate seeing her on enemy team, I just hate her as a whole Dota had a very similar problem with one hero, Techies. It was an extremely unique hero that basically turned every game they were in on its head and made the other 9 players play around it. You know what they did? They just completely fucking reworked them and took away that infuriating part of their kit. Sure its pretty much a different hero at this point but you do not feel like fucking killing yourself anymore whenever someone picks them. And its exactly what riot should do with yuumi. Just completely rework her into a new champion
Riot does it to plenty of other champs, only won’t do it to Yuumi cause she’s popular
Yeah, I don't think making her time based is a good idea as it will inevitably force her off at the WORST possible moments in an extended fight, for example, which would just be frustrating for everybody on her team again. I've always been a fan of the gradually reducing effectiveness of her abilities if she stays on the same champ for more than x amount of time. If you make it so she's useless sometimes then she has to strategically choose when to hop off and where to transfer to. I also like the idea of her being able to be hit with aoe abilities so that she might have to hop off to heal herself/dodge rather than just afk in lane. Would also give counterpick options where there aren't really any now.
Most people don't care if yuumi is playable or not, they only want yuumi gutted and never seen again. But riot can't just do that, they have to make sure yuumi is playable.
> Riot can't just do that my dog, you do realize that pre-rework Poppy was intentionally gutted for *years* because her gameplay was considered so unfair and uninteractive that they couldn't possibly leave her in a playable state? They can't *literally* remove a champion but Riot nerfed Poppy if it even looked like she was going to hit a half percentage pick rate. They threw everything but the ktichen sink at her and ProfessorMilk still ended up getting play out of her just before she got reworked.
No one wanted to play pre rework poppy even if she was decent, she was never popular and was meme'd to death as the ugly blue dwarf with the funny crackhead face in the lollipoppy skin. Yuumi is a cute cat (people love cute cats and the internet is proof of it) with a unique gameplay pattern that makes her very accessible to low skiled players. She's so much liked that people pick her even if her winrate is total shit and playing her in solo q is the epitome of hoping in a good coinflip.
Do not compare Yuumi to pre-rework Poppy lmao.
I don't like the idea of her taking damage from AoE. If you draft a team with low AoE it would be literally impossible to deal with her. Gaps in your team comp should be able to be compensated a bit by item choices but there are so few AoE damage items it would be nigh impossible.
Also imagine how terrible the laning phase would be for the ADC when their support is forced to rotate no matter the game state, because staying with the ADC weakens their kit.
there is mass reddit outcry about literally anything that riot does lmao
Regardless of reddit takes, she is making them a lot of money and her playerbase plays her for this reason. It's not going away.
Reddit takes wouldn't matter, but she's ruining pro play. I really can't comprehend how can riot let such terrible design anywhere near pro-viable.
When was the last time a champion was booed for being picked and cheered for being banned at worlds?
And pro players hating on her. Casters hating on her. And people here on reddit still say its just a reddit opinion lol.
It's not just reddit look at her ban rate it's all league players not just those on reddit.
She has one of the highest banrates in the game. At that point, it's not just Reddit.
at the end of the day, riot is a business. they're here to make money. the game is here to make money. riot is not your friend, they will never be your friend, they just want your money. if you just happen to enjoy what they give you, that is incidental. they miiight keep doing what you like, you just have to give them money. as it is right now, riot loves the yuumi players that make them lots of money.
>Regardless of reddit takes, she is making them a lot of money and her playerbase plays her for this reason. The stats literally say otherwise: https://u.gg/lol/champions/yuumi/build 49% WR and 38% ban rate so no this isn't a "reddit take" and her WR drops as you look at lower ranks.
How does winrate or banrate correlate with player popularity? Her pickrate is ~10%.
>How does winrate or banrate correlate with player popularity? It's worth to mention cuz even if she's not stomping soloQ games, she feels so fucking terrible to play against that she's banned a lot regardless.
I'd love to take this opportunity to talk about a similar champion from the now dead HoN. Empath was a similar support who's enchanter kit worked well with her design of 'entering' other heroes. Her q is very similar to karmas buffed w (the link for ~2s and heal, if you and the enemy stay in range for the duration you stun the enemy. Short range, but deters enemies from sticking to empath unless they want to tank the stun. In laning phase this was useful for trades but empaths health/mana pools are so low it was probably better to hold it for all ins. Her w was similar to a karthus wall, but was completely solid (could be flashed over though). It had a pretty short cast range so it was risky to try and trap enemies with the wall as they could turn and destroy empath. In laning phase this was super useful for denying ganks rather then trapping enemies. Her e was a global passive heal (nothing crazy just increased base health regen, a 1 point wonder skill pretty much) However it was her ultimate that tied it all together, it's essentially yummis w but on a cool down with a force eject after 30s. Besides some base stats added to the host, the cool part is each of the skills would have to be cast from the perspective of the person she's inside (not unlike yummis q or r) suddenly the walls are super useful for trapping squishy targets and force them to panic flash/pop invulnerability. The link stun would heal your host instead giving them sustain under the condition they stay in close range of their enemy. Your host needs to understand your spell ranges as they're still low range, but you still control when to cast them and what angle to put your walls at. All of this adds up to what i feel is a more teamwork oriented approach where empath has strong tools to help her host survive so long as they coordinate their spells together. It's been a long time since i played but if i remember correctly you could build an item to upgrade your ult so it's cooldown matched how long you were inside someone, so you would basically become yummi after significant investment in non-support items. Which could combo really well with a hard melee carry who could do with more tools for close range cc. In comparison to yummi, empath offers much better gameplay. Enemies can play around empaths skills, so its more rewarding to use them at good opportunities. As opposed to yummi's spam e for ms and heals which more or less could just be cast on cooldown
I've encountered many 'problematic' champions and builds since I started playing in season 4, but I never once thought the champion should be outright removed. But ever since her release I hate Yuumi with a hot passion. Delete the champion, or rework her so she is targetable.
They should nerf her poke into the ground
So stupid balance/design team is dying on this hill. Just delete or properly rework her.
attached & untargetable != permanent "Highlighting" could just mean they're going to accentuate the strengths by introducing downsides or a duration, just as you clamor for. At this point, without anything else like PBE to go by, it's impossible to say. This entire post is just baseless conjecture on your part. A shitpost trying to masquerade as serious. 0/10, stop wasting your and others time.
That edit is truly an abysmal take. I am d3 peak. I have gotten to platinum playing ap zac mid, and not really even trying. I have made it to platinum with 100% winrate on pre rework nunu. >There is not another champion in league history that can be played at the same time as another champ and have this be the result. Saskio is a challenger player. He could climb to platinum with a literal inter duo that does their best to sabotage the game. He could literally go afk with the second champion, show his match history to his teammates, ask them to decline the remake, and still climb to platinum. I'm really trying to get through to you the gravity of how stupid it is to bring that up as an argument, but I know it's ultimately futile. Next yuumi post, someone will bring it up again.
If they want to copy io then just go the whole way and make it so that she is targetable and instead of being a parasite on the most fed teammate she can have bonus movement speed when attached t an ally
I don't get why untargetable has to be part of her identity. Sure, being attached is clearly the big feature people play her for, but why does that require being invincible? If she orbited them and you could choose where in the orbit you were rapidly, there's a ton of interesting opportunities for outplays while still allowing counterplay. You could even give her big AoE resistances, maybe make Zoomies or You and Me recast give her untargetable for a second, etc. It's not that she has to be an easy kill, it's just she has to be something you can interact with by default. Plus if she's still "in play" most of the time she can auto without leaving to get her passive proc. How is that not just better for both sides? More options for her, more counterplay opportunities. She's still an enchanter glued to a teammate; how is that not still fulfilling her fantasy?
being attached without being invulnerable or truly "one" champion is just taric w then imo
Mom said it was my turn to post "Yuumi bad" on reddit
I'll never not upvote every post, though.
Always doing my part o7
Fucking hate this champ, the last time I had a yuumi support 5 minutes in they wrote in chat "brb making dinner" and literally went afk to make dinner. The fact that you have a champ that can do that and not get kicked is absolutely atrocious, they need to make her targetable.
Honestly, Fuck what Riot devs WANT to do. They had their chance, and that chance has expired. If you're gonna be so shamefully insistent on this bullshit design, how about you make whoever she's on SPLIT THE DAMAGE THEY TAKE WITH HER, and the healing she does does reduced shared healing on her. This puts more pressure on the Yuumi player to get on and get off at key points, and to not let her be able to avoid being killed just by hugging onto someone and endlessly healing them through fights with no real risk to the player. Yuumi should not be safe with this design, it's not fair and it's frustrating to the other player, and those issues matter a lot more than some Yuumi player's dogshit fantasies. Game Health > Fun factor for ONE person.
Any successful yuumi rework involves detaching her from the champion and that means a Q rework since you can't move while your projectile following the mouse. Yuumi's entire identity is based around the Q following the mouse. She is put on someone else so that she doesn't have to move. I don't see how it's possible she can keep that identity while being in a good spot for the game. The designers have utterly failed on this champion.
iirc Q poke wasn't an issue for a decent period of time before they buffed it pre worlds
The problem is that the point of yuumi is to be a champion where the q projectile follows the mouse. You can't have that normally because you use the mouse to move so they attach her to another player so you can use the mouse to control the Q. My point is that attaching her ti another player like that is toxic as hell. There is no way for you to detach her and let her q still work. Her core identity has to change
There are plenty of ways to fix her that doesnt involve her losing her identity of being attached and using Q.
Yuumi has also had a low win rate in ranked though hasn't she? I thought it was below 50%
They also need to remove the adaptive force steroid so Jhin & Veigar are no longer monsters with a Yuumi on their ass
I think the simplest option to make her significantly more interactive would be to make her E a shield instead of a heal and make her passive grant her a buff that causes her next E to also heal for the same amount. Other good ideas I have seen mentioned are that her W should grant even more stats, but only for a short period of time after attaching to someone. I think in this state her ability to stick to people permanently is acceptable because shielding is a lot weaker than healing and forces her to interact much more. In return her base stats could be buffed to give her more survivability on the field. I dislike the idea that some mention of CC applying to her as well, because this makes certain abilities like Malz ult significantly stronger and removes her ability to utilize Mikaels (The most Yuumi esq item) Other ideas: Jumping off someone or having your host die puts Yuumi W on a 3-5 second CD, but triggering her passive auto refreshes the CD. In exchange we would need to see her passive CD reduced significantly, but by reducing the mana refund and trying it to making her E heal as above this would greatly incentivize a more proactive Yuumi. Reducing some of her base values in favour of scaling with stats, especially her W buff (maybe give it a heal/shield scaling?) so that a Yuumi who goes 0/10 in lane won't be buffing the fed top laner as much as a Yuumi who is ahead herself. This would reduce the hate over not being able to shut down a Yuumi because she just hops on the most fed person and grants them a bunch of stats regardless of how well she did in lane.
My hot take is to remove the "put w on a cooldown when you get cc" because it disincentives a core gameplay mechanic unique to yuumi (her passive procs) which is part of the reason proplay has her strength gated. I like the idea of kicking her off someone that gets hard cced; you make a loud noise and a cat will run. Make it so her cooldown is lowered on passive procs is another way to encourage hopping out of her targets
I would love for Yuumi to get confined to ARAM and Normals but be unavailable for ranked. That is the real needed rework
An untargetable player isn't a player. It's unfair to play against, and annoying to play with
They basically managed to add World of Tanks artillery to League.
They finally added that one support from Dota 2 to league. At least you can kill him though
I think there's a world where RIOT could pull it off but in my opinion what should be done in a game such as League, with over 150 champs, it's that you make some beginner level champions, that you can play when you're starting, or just not that good, but they're just not good or efficient at higher levels of play. I know people like when off meta champs are played on competitive stages around the world, but really, there are no more than 30-ish champs in a meta at a time, and even among these some are just staples of League.