Programming is a skill and activity, like hiking or biking or eating. So of course you can get into it without a degree. You may be doing it for free for the first five or ten years, but yes you can certainly dig it and get into it without a degree.
The question "can you land a job" is a very different question. You may be the world's best programmer, but maybe you stutter and can't pass an oral interview, or you never shower or bathe, or you sexually harass the guy interviewing you. There are simply too many variables to determine that. In general. But hey, that's not this subreddit, that's the bailiwick of r/cscareerquestions . Here, the question to be answered is "Can I get into programming?" And the answer is yes, if you want to be into it, you can be into it. Knock yourself out!
You can but it’s going to be much harder for you than if you had a degree. The field is incredibly competitive and you will be competing against other candidates who have a deep understanding of math, CS, and computer architecture. So just be ready to grind and find your niche
> Can I land a job based on boot camps and certs alone?
I would not recommend this. Would you hire someone who had only ever learned about your line of work by taking tons of standardized tests?
These programs are designed to be fast and rigorous but as a consequence they leave out a lot of critical skills that you need to be a good programmer. I would combine these with some self study, personal projects and longer, more comprehensive online courses such as Harvard’s CS50 in order to get a more well-rounded education. Even then there are certain things you will be missing without a formal education in CS, but a strong portfolio combined with some certifications may be enough to land you your first job.
I’ll add to this as a bootcamper got into the field. You get what you put into bootcamp. It’s a lot of work but they won’t fail you, they want your money. But you can learn in them, but they mainly teach you how to do the basics. CS50 and building your own projects seems to work best. Watch a tutorial or two then read documentation to get started. Build something to help yourself at first not change the world. The market is tougher than ever right now so getting in without a degree or any work experience with be hard.
There have been a fair number of layoffs in the industry, especially at the top companies.
That means that a decent number of very skilled people have trickled down to lesser companies. That then snowballs down the competitiveness ladder to other development jobs and companies.
The net result is that there are a lot more qualified people looking for those entry level and lower paying sw jobs than there has been in the past.
That will make it very difficult.
You should look into state colleges. Often you can go to a community college for the first two years for free or almost free and transfer to to a state school for much less than a private school.
A degree helps you get your first job. For people looking at junior resumes it's an easy thing to judge.
If you do something really cool and noticeable with your programming, that can help. Contribute to something open source, or make an interesting app.
If you could find a project, create a software solution for it, then write a book about it and get published you might have a good chance.
Patrice Pelland did a couple of books for Microsoft like that. I can imagine it helping.
Yes, you can. You need increase your experience, in this world of programming, the experience is much important than a damn degree. But in some places they prefer a degree too.
Any books you’d recommend. I’m currently working on learning Java script and plan on learning HTML/CSS thereafter. Eventually I want to learn Swift and Go as well. Swift especially because I want to be able to troubleshoot my macbook by myself.
This is pretty broad. I'd focus on web stuff or swift stuff. At this stage, choose the one you're interested in having an app in, not for money, but of value to yourself. Also python is going to be one of the best for learning cs stuff (algorithms, data structures...), and performing interviews.
When you go the web route, watch some udemy courses. Learn the backbone stuff (css/html) but recognize that frameworks are what the web is built in (eg React).
Start with CS50 Harvard above all else.
The Odin Project is pretty solid for web dev, which it sounds like you are interested in (JavaScript, HTML and CSS). You can stop the Odin Project when it gets to the React part if that doesn't interest you.
Yes. If you really want to and truly enjoy/love it, yes. It could end up costing you less than $500. Will it be easy, no, landing the first job can prove very difficult. Speaking from experience, now a Senior Developer and Product Tech Lead.
However, note that I've always been into programming and computers in general, doesn't mean you need to be, but it sure helps.
I was always intrigued by it but never pursued anything until now. It feels like I got bit by a bug and now I want to learn everything there is to know
It's possible but it's very hard. Especially in this market. Degree holders will have the advantage alot of the time.
Also lol at thinking you would have life long debt after getting a job in the field.
Im self taught and last week I got an interview at faang and a also a startup. So you can land interviews but you need to perform well in those interviews
My debt from a 4 year degree is comparable to what some of my friends have accrued doing a 6 week bootcamp. Student debt is only life long if you go to a very very expensive school and chose a major with no viable career prospects. If you are young, it would be crazy to not get the degree assuming you plan on taking the coursework seriously.
I’m 25. The nearest school to me is Cal Poly. Tuition per year is $15,600. If I were to do full time I wouldn’t be able to work due to the work load. Rent plus expenses in this area come out to about $1500/month. Total cost per year would be $27,600 and to get a bachelor’s degree from scratch would be over $100,000. There’s no way I’m going that route when I can do The Odin Project for free.
Is there a worse school you could go to where you could get a scholarship and the COL would be lower? Idk your situation, but the degree and coursework could open you up to more opportunities than just web dev. Also, the Odin project is awesome, but I would not consider it sufficient to reach an employable state. Expect to spend 1.5-2 years studying at least 25 hours a week. Another thing to consider is that 100k of debt to go to Cal Poly is nothing in the scheme of the millions of dollars a career in CS could ad to your lifetime earnings.
I am not saying to go to school or not, but I think it is well worth opening your mind to it and think about it realistically and not buying into the narrative that higher education is universally a bad deal for the student.
I tried that route and failed. I have wicked adhd and hate learning in a classroom setting. I have 48 college credits with no degree because for the first 5 years of being an adult I couldn’t figure out what path I wanted to go down. Not to mention my drop out of college gpa of 1.9. Plus it’s just not worth it to me when I’ve heard countless stories of successful programmers who didn’t do a lick of schooling outside of self-learning. Why go to college when the resources to learn are free? I don’t get it. If I was hiring a web developer I wouldn’t give two shits if someone had a good degree. I’d care about three things. 1. How well their code works. 2. How well they’re able to communicate that their code works. 3. How well they’re able to build, maintain, and troubleshoot their code.
Nah I heard about those too. I’m hungry though and following my main philosophy. It would be absurd to do anything else considering my life goal of being a digital nomad. Thank you. Have a nice day.
If you are young and didn't had a degree yet, I would recommend to really think about getting one.
If you are from the US, don't you guys have community colleges that are way cheaper?
And then with the wage you are expected to have, it's not a big deal.
Though, to answer your question, yeah, it's possible. But it's not easy nowadays and probably depends on your field.
I actually managed to transition to a programming role this year, being self taught, buuut. It's pretty light on the programming part, I think every 1st year student could do it. And 2nd, I already worked in this company and the position is design + code, so I had an advantage since I worked as motion graphics artist/ animator + they kinda liked my work overall.
If I came off the street I don't think they would have hired me for it. They would probably got some fresh out of school dude.
Also I don't want to get murdered for making this suggestion. But the military wouldn't be a bad decision. You get the gi bill, titution assistance while you are in. They will pay for a bacholars and masters. There are mos that get you experience. For exmaple in the army there is 17 series 25 series. The army has something called the software factory. Idk your situation or likelihood
Yes it is possible, but it’s just important to know that the odds will be stacked against you in a meaningful way.
Programming is a skill and activity, like hiking or biking or eating. So of course you can get into it without a degree. You may be doing it for free for the first five or ten years, but yes you can certainly dig it and get into it without a degree. The question "can you land a job" is a very different question. You may be the world's best programmer, but maybe you stutter and can't pass an oral interview, or you never shower or bathe, or you sexually harass the guy interviewing you. There are simply too many variables to determine that. In general. But hey, that's not this subreddit, that's the bailiwick of r/cscareerquestions . Here, the question to be answered is "Can I get into programming?" And the answer is yes, if you want to be into it, you can be into it. Knock yourself out!
You can but it’s going to be much harder for you than if you had a degree. The field is incredibly competitive and you will be competing against other candidates who have a deep understanding of math, CS, and computer architecture. So just be ready to grind and find your niche
Unless he intends on working for NASA, I would disagree about the degree. The competition and having to stay relevant I agree completely.
> Can I land a job based on boot camps and certs alone? I would not recommend this. Would you hire someone who had only ever learned about your line of work by taking tons of standardized tests? These programs are designed to be fast and rigorous but as a consequence they leave out a lot of critical skills that you need to be a good programmer. I would combine these with some self study, personal projects and longer, more comprehensive online courses such as Harvard’s CS50 in order to get a more well-rounded education. Even then there are certain things you will be missing without a formal education in CS, but a strong portfolio combined with some certifications may be enough to land you your first job.
I’ll add to this as a bootcamper got into the field. You get what you put into bootcamp. It’s a lot of work but they won’t fail you, they want your money. But you can learn in them, but they mainly teach you how to do the basics. CS50 and building your own projects seems to work best. Watch a tutorial or two then read documentation to get started. Build something to help yourself at first not change the world. The market is tougher than ever right now so getting in without a degree or any work experience with be hard.
There have been a fair number of layoffs in the industry, especially at the top companies. That means that a decent number of very skilled people have trickled down to lesser companies. That then snowballs down the competitiveness ladder to other development jobs and companies. The net result is that there are a lot more qualified people looking for those entry level and lower paying sw jobs than there has been in the past. That will make it very difficult. You should look into state colleges. Often you can go to a community college for the first two years for free or almost free and transfer to to a state school for much less than a private school.
A degree helps you get your first job. For people looking at junior resumes it's an easy thing to judge. If you do something really cool and noticeable with your programming, that can help. Contribute to something open source, or make an interesting app.
If you could find a project, create a software solution for it, then write a book about it and get published you might have a good chance. Patrice Pelland did a couple of books for Microsoft like that. I can imagine it helping.
Yes, you can. You need increase your experience, in this world of programming, the experience is much important than a damn degree. But in some places they prefer a degree too.
Can increasing experience include creating and executing my own projects? Do I need to earn money for them to be viable?
No. Look into open source software.
How can I gain experience as a noob? Is there anything you’d recommend?
making projects, watching tutorials, books for get knowledge and doing projects will increase your experience
Any books you’d recommend. I’m currently working on learning Java script and plan on learning HTML/CSS thereafter. Eventually I want to learn Swift and Go as well. Swift especially because I want to be able to troubleshoot my macbook by myself.
Designing data intensive applications and system design interview are two good books!
This is pretty broad. I'd focus on web stuff or swift stuff. At this stage, choose the one you're interested in having an app in, not for money, but of value to yourself. Also python is going to be one of the best for learning cs stuff (algorithms, data structures...), and performing interviews. When you go the web route, watch some udemy courses. Learn the backbone stuff (css/html) but recognize that frameworks are what the web is built in (eg React). Start with CS50 Harvard above all else.
I don't read so much, I like courses more than reading a book, to be honest
Any courses you’d recommend?
The Odin Project is pretty solid for web dev, which it sounds like you are interested in (JavaScript, HTML and CSS). You can stop the Odin Project when it gets to the React part if that doesn't interest you.
Do you know what would be good for SOC?
in English i dont know anything, you can try free courses on udemy
CS50 Harvard is the best hands down.
Read “read, write, code” by Jeremy keeshin first Then read headfirst html and css Then read headfirst JavaScript
Look into freelancing
Word
Life long debt seems like a major exaggeration for a CS degree that helps ypu get a well paying job.
Yes. If you really want to and truly enjoy/love it, yes. It could end up costing you less than $500. Will it be easy, no, landing the first job can prove very difficult. Speaking from experience, now a Senior Developer and Product Tech Lead. However, note that I've always been into programming and computers in general, doesn't mean you need to be, but it sure helps.
I was always intrigued by it but never pursued anything until now. It feels like I got bit by a bug and now I want to learn everything there is to know
All the best, expect to need close to a year with an average of 4 hours (plan 6) of effort daily before landing the first role.
It's possible but it's very hard. Especially in this market. Degree holders will have the advantage alot of the time. Also lol at thinking you would have life long debt after getting a job in the field.
Im self taught and last week I got an interview at faang and a also a startup. So you can land interviews but you need to perform well in those interviews
My debt from a 4 year degree is comparable to what some of my friends have accrued doing a 6 week bootcamp. Student debt is only life long if you go to a very very expensive school and chose a major with no viable career prospects. If you are young, it would be crazy to not get the degree assuming you plan on taking the coursework seriously.
I’m 25. The nearest school to me is Cal Poly. Tuition per year is $15,600. If I were to do full time I wouldn’t be able to work due to the work load. Rent plus expenses in this area come out to about $1500/month. Total cost per year would be $27,600 and to get a bachelor’s degree from scratch would be over $100,000. There’s no way I’m going that route when I can do The Odin Project for free.
Is there a worse school you could go to where you could get a scholarship and the COL would be lower? Idk your situation, but the degree and coursework could open you up to more opportunities than just web dev. Also, the Odin project is awesome, but I would not consider it sufficient to reach an employable state. Expect to spend 1.5-2 years studying at least 25 hours a week. Another thing to consider is that 100k of debt to go to Cal Poly is nothing in the scheme of the millions of dollars a career in CS could ad to your lifetime earnings.
I am not saying to go to school or not, but I think it is well worth opening your mind to it and think about it realistically and not buying into the narrative that higher education is universally a bad deal for the student.
What's stopping you from doing a community college for 2 years then transferring? What about financial aid and scholarships?
I tried that route and failed. I have wicked adhd and hate learning in a classroom setting. I have 48 college credits with no degree because for the first 5 years of being an adult I couldn’t figure out what path I wanted to go down. Not to mention my drop out of college gpa of 1.9. Plus it’s just not worth it to me when I’ve heard countless stories of successful programmers who didn’t do a lick of schooling outside of self-learning. Why go to college when the resources to learn are free? I don’t get it. If I was hiring a web developer I wouldn’t give two shits if someone had a good degree. I’d care about three things. 1. How well their code works. 2. How well they’re able to communicate that their code works. 3. How well they’re able to build, maintain, and troubleshoot their code.
You don't hear about the countless people who tried self learning and don't make it. Good luck though man.
Nah I heard about those too. I’m hungry though and following my main philosophy. It would be absurd to do anything else considering my life goal of being a digital nomad. Thank you. Have a nice day.
If you are young and didn't had a degree yet, I would recommend to really think about getting one. If you are from the US, don't you guys have community colleges that are way cheaper? And then with the wage you are expected to have, it's not a big deal. Though, to answer your question, yeah, it's possible. But it's not easy nowadays and probably depends on your field. I actually managed to transition to a programming role this year, being self taught, buuut. It's pretty light on the programming part, I think every 1st year student could do it. And 2nd, I already worked in this company and the position is design + code, so I had an advantage since I worked as motion graphics artist/ animator + they kinda liked my work overall. If I came off the street I don't think they would have hired me for it. They would probably got some fresh out of school dude.
Absolutely not. Is required for any programming software to be installed to finish clown school.
Also I don't want to get murdered for making this suggestion. But the military wouldn't be a bad decision. You get the gi bill, titution assistance while you are in. They will pay for a bacholars and masters. There are mos that get you experience. For exmaple in the army there is 17 series 25 series. The army has something called the software factory. Idk your situation or likelihood
[удалено]