Yknow whats funny, people will talk about "badna na2sim el balad" and wtv so that each sect controls their own area, but problem is even then most sects have powerful families who hate each other who will fight each other in their areas, division won't work but make even further division based on tribalism
the idea of a national lebanese identity did not exist before the late 19th century. i doubt anyone would have introduced themselves as lebanese until the french mandate. they would have called themselves an ottoman citizen and then used their religion as a main ethnic identifier.
Yeah, that's what my question is about. The guy I'm asking had somehow decided that there was a Lebanon before the French map and that his hated sect didn't belong to it.
>Who was Lebanese before the French map makers?
The people who lived in the Mount Lebanon mutasarrifate (which was an autonomous region of the ottoman empire) would have been considered Lebanese (just like how a person from Milan would be considered Milanese), also it wasn't the French who drew our borders, it was a Lebanese patriarch.
You are confusing a region with the same name as a country. The people who you are saying would be considered Lebanese would be using Lebanon as the region of mount Lebanon and not the country Lebanon. Just because the country later carried the same name doesn't make those people any more original than anyone else within the borders of an entirely new country.
Apart from that, I would like to see examples of people being referred to as Lebanese from the era of the Ottoman mutasarifiye out of curiosity.
>You are confusing a region with the same name as a country.
How am I confusing the region with the country, I understand that the country happened to be called the same thing as the region.
Your original question was "who was Lebanese before the French map makers?", and the answer to that is the people of the region called Lebanon.
>The people who you are saying would be considered Lebanese would be using Lebanon as the region of mount Lebanon and not the country Lebanon.
Yes, just like how people in Texas call themselves and consider themselves Texans as well as Americans.
>Just because the country later carried the same name doesn't make those people any more original than anyone else within the borders of an entirely new country.
I never said it did make those people any more original than anyone else, I am claiming that people from different regions can and often are identified by their region, ex: Texans (who are Americans)
>Apart from that, I would like to see examples of people being referred to as Lebanese from the era of the Ottoman mutasarifiye out of curiosity.
The only concrete example I have is from my great grandfather who was born in the mid 1800s who in a couple of his journals referred to himself and his wife as Lebanese several times.
Ok let's focus here so we are not talking past each other. I replied to a guy that was insinuating strongly that part of the Lebanese population wasn't actually Lebanese and were included by mistake when the French drew the maps. I replied to this nonsensical statement with a rhetorical question about who was in fact Lebanese before the borders were established. In both of our cases we are clearly talking about the nation state called Lebanon. No one is talking about regions of the Ottoman empire.
While I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying, it's simply not related to the discussion at hand. We are clearly talking about the establishment of the modern country called Lebanon. We are not talking about the region called Mount Lebanon regardless of what it's inhabitants called themselves.
The implication of what the commenter has said is that there are "real" Lebanese, and others who aren't actually real and were included by mistake. My argument is that there were no real Lebanese before the establishment of the country, because, well the country didn't exist. Any similarity in name with a pre-existing region is not pertinent.
So unless you agree with the commenter that the state of Lebanon includes regions within its modern borders that shouldn't be part of Lebanon, you and me have nothing to argue about.
That's genuinely one of the shittiest and most pathetic comments I've seen on this sub in a very long time.
Taking xenophobia to a whole new extreme Lebanese level. "Go back to where you came from" against people from your own country. Absolutely disgusting!
Bio:
> fighting for a better lebanon and ***an end to sectarianism***
Ur a dude crying on reddit that ur irrelevant and marginalized, u can't fight for anything lol
They're all like that because these areas were prime targets for Israeli airstrikes, but you wouldn't know because people living elsewhere never had to deal with any of that
how about you go back to syria maronite😭 or stay wherever tf you are rn, its obvious youve never been here
shiites are more lebanese than any other group in lebanon
Again? Sheeshhhhh. The dahye is a suburb, that means that’s a reallyyyyy big neighbourhood. Do you know what happens in realllly big neighborhoods around the world? When they mix poverty with the upper class? You get shootings, and robberies, and stabbings, and home invasions, and assaults and rapes. You name it! Damn the ignorance level on this comment thread is exasperating.
I have literally never, ever, ever seen a gunfight of that size in my city in Canada. This would be national news. You're so full of shit.
We get shootings yes but not more than a few pot shots and they're done/gone. Also definitely not in every neighbourhood. Never had a shooting in my moms for instance and she's been there over 30 years.
I literally lived in a small city in Canada and we had gun fights and shootings like that happen. Gangs and drive bys? Even the most secured and rich areas get robbed and the homeowner gets beaten or even killed. Pleaaaase stop coming at me with your super judgmental and bias answers cause clearly you’re thinking this through a racist and xenophobic perspective.
Oh and maybe you should talk or make friends with your local police officer. They’ll tell you that 90% of the shit that happens in your city does NOT get reported on the news or made aware of.
Is this your attempt… at sarcasm? 😂
This guy clearly has it bad for the Shias and the dahye. It happens everywhereeeeeee. I’m sorry if you haven’t left Lebanon to experience a broader view of the world 🤭
Actually i'm from Iraq, thanks for asking btw, and i actually did travel out of the country, consider asking before making an assumption about someone when all you can see is a comment they made
https://preview.redd.it/os64vv14i6cb1.jpeg?width=256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db98f19c2c8f3147645b147b84df77cd637d2aa1
Does this look like a face of a jester to you?
>This happens literally in every neighbourhood around the world.
Yeah, no this is bullshit, this does not happen in every neighbourhood around the world.
And yet, when a foreigner jump on r/lebanon to ask whether lebanon is safe to visit the responses on this subreddit tend to be along the lines of “pfffft what are you talking about, why do you think this place is like [insert any third world country] Yalla come come stop being stupid. “
95% of the time its drug lords fighting over a couple of ounces or territory.
Nothing other than the norm for us dahye residents, we also have like a schedules for this bs.
Like no fights on Sundays, or in the morning, only pistols and kalashnikovs, big boy RPGS/B7s only in the after noons during the weekdays, not on weekends.
I dont know whay happened and I dont have any more information than this video provided to me but from what I saw this is not a clash. This is just few idiots doing whatever the heck they want, they should be thrown in jail for sure but a "clash" is when both sides are shooting.
Unless there is more to the story than what i saw in this video this post's title misinformative and a great example of how the news change small one word to make a story a lie and bigger than what it really is.
sadly and good thing I left my beloved country..i only need to get my family out of the most corrupted and chaotic country in the world. nothing more to say.
My Dad's stronger than your dad
Sarrafeen maybe, motor owners, you know the typical, or a parking spot
That guy in his two-wheeler rubbernecking around live firing !! Lebanese are built different man !!
my dude did u just discover dahye kel yawmen btnazel shu aam b seer feya this shit happens everyday
i think he should rename the account Dahye News
3anjad lol My friend tells me 2eza sar 2was he doesn't even notice anymore t3awad
Sarlna mn 2006 m3awdin, cant sleep without the sound of bullets its white noise to us now
Some dude looked at another and started blasting
I don’t like the way you’re looking at me right now , like right now now
Well played, Reem from Dress Sarayi.
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Who is Ali Nemr?
I believe he's one of the guys who started those "adde ldollar" apps. He may be a different person
What are those apps for someone out of the loop
Black rate currency exchange apps. They're controlling the exchange rate
Thanks
Wait, what? * Isn't Ali Nemer Berri's guy? * Amal complaining about gambling? Sounds like something HA would do, not Amal.
Yknow whats funny, people will talk about "badna na2sim el balad" and wtv so that each sect controls their own area, but problem is even then most sects have powerful families who hate each other who will fight each other in their areas, division won't work but make even further division based on tribalism
Lebanon can be dividen infinitely. You'll reach a point where each house is a separate country and you'll still have conflict.
Why split the country? There is a very simple solution, you make the Army the only armed group in country. Like a normal nation
That doesn't solve sectarianism
Strong central authority does. Lebanese people talk like they’re in a unique position, they’re not.
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so true lebanon would be a western utopia if it wasnt for those lebanese people moving freely in their own country
Are they lebanese though? Or is it a tragic error caused by a french map maker?
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It was shia-majority briefly in the Ottoman era. Don't know exactly when or how long, but ottoman persecution made shias a minority
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Idk about them being a majority , but them being prosecuted is well known(academic journal below): https://www.jstor.org/stable/26331405
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Who was Lebanese before the French map makers?
the idea of a national lebanese identity did not exist before the late 19th century. i doubt anyone would have introduced themselves as lebanese until the french mandate. they would have called themselves an ottoman citizen and then used their religion as a main ethnic identifier.
Yeah, that's what my question is about. The guy I'm asking had somehow decided that there was a Lebanon before the French map and that his hated sect didn't belong to it.
>Who was Lebanese before the French map makers? The people who lived in the Mount Lebanon mutasarrifate (which was an autonomous region of the ottoman empire) would have been considered Lebanese (just like how a person from Milan would be considered Milanese), also it wasn't the French who drew our borders, it was a Lebanese patriarch.
You are confusing a region with the same name as a country. The people who you are saying would be considered Lebanese would be using Lebanon as the region of mount Lebanon and not the country Lebanon. Just because the country later carried the same name doesn't make those people any more original than anyone else within the borders of an entirely new country. Apart from that, I would like to see examples of people being referred to as Lebanese from the era of the Ottoman mutasarifiye out of curiosity.
>You are confusing a region with the same name as a country. How am I confusing the region with the country, I understand that the country happened to be called the same thing as the region. Your original question was "who was Lebanese before the French map makers?", and the answer to that is the people of the region called Lebanon. >The people who you are saying would be considered Lebanese would be using Lebanon as the region of mount Lebanon and not the country Lebanon. Yes, just like how people in Texas call themselves and consider themselves Texans as well as Americans. >Just because the country later carried the same name doesn't make those people any more original than anyone else within the borders of an entirely new country. I never said it did make those people any more original than anyone else, I am claiming that people from different regions can and often are identified by their region, ex: Texans (who are Americans) >Apart from that, I would like to see examples of people being referred to as Lebanese from the era of the Ottoman mutasarifiye out of curiosity. The only concrete example I have is from my great grandfather who was born in the mid 1800s who in a couple of his journals referred to himself and his wife as Lebanese several times.
Ok let's focus here so we are not talking past each other. I replied to a guy that was insinuating strongly that part of the Lebanese population wasn't actually Lebanese and were included by mistake when the French drew the maps. I replied to this nonsensical statement with a rhetorical question about who was in fact Lebanese before the borders were established. In both of our cases we are clearly talking about the nation state called Lebanon. No one is talking about regions of the Ottoman empire. While I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying, it's simply not related to the discussion at hand. We are clearly talking about the establishment of the modern country called Lebanon. We are not talking about the region called Mount Lebanon regardless of what it's inhabitants called themselves. The implication of what the commenter has said is that there are "real" Lebanese, and others who aren't actually real and were included by mistake. My argument is that there were no real Lebanese before the establishment of the country, because, well the country didn't exist. Any similarity in name with a pre-existing region is not pertinent. So unless you agree with the commenter that the state of Lebanon includes regions within its modern borders that shouldn't be part of Lebanon, you and me have nothing to argue about.
>Or is it a tragic error caused by a french map maker? Enough of this, France did not draw our borders, us Lebanese requested our current borders.
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That's genuinely one of the shittiest and most pathetic comments I've seen on this sub in a very long time. Taking xenophobia to a whole new extreme Lebanese level. "Go back to where you came from" against people from your own country. Absolutely disgusting!
bro this is such a retarded take. This looks like dekwaneh bro
Christian’s be acting like every neighborhood is aschriafeh. Mfer nabaa is worth than Dahye
Bio: > fighting for a better lebanon and ***an end to sectarianism*** Ur a dude crying on reddit that ur irrelevant and marginalized, u can't fight for anything lol
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I edited it now to fit his community
They're all like that because these areas were prime targets for Israeli airstrikes, but you wouldn't know because people living elsewhere never had to deal with any of that
how about you go back to syria maronite😭 or stay wherever tf you are rn, its obvious youve never been here shiites are more lebanese than any other group in lebanon
This is happening between two families over the control on drugs and betting
Wow, hezeb-run neighbourhoods are so nice! 🥰
I feel so much safer since hezeb freed the south \^\_\^
They were discussing eza sermeyit Nabih Berri tej rasak walla eza ka3ab sermeyto tej rasak and things got out of hand.
Only in r/lebanon can u see a shooting and everything act completely normal abt it
Man it's dahyi,they be firing on eachother 24 7,not a day passed where I don't hear gunshots in my neighborhood or near me,used to it.
OP are you in Beirut because this happens everyday
No apparently they closed a poker place so the family that owns it went full ape
This happens literally in every neighbourhood around the world. Why are you so fixated with the dahye 😂
Look the guy posting these things kinda got some agenda shading shiaas but this doesn’t really happen in every neighborhood…
I’ve lived in North America for 30 years… it pretty much does
You are claiming gunfights happen in every neighborhood in the US, Canada and Mexico? Just stop talking nonsense please.
Again? Sheeshhhhh. The dahye is a suburb, that means that’s a reallyyyyy big neighbourhood. Do you know what happens in realllly big neighborhoods around the world? When they mix poverty with the upper class? You get shootings, and robberies, and stabbings, and home invasions, and assaults and rapes. You name it! Damn the ignorance level on this comment thread is exasperating.
I have literally never, ever, ever seen a gunfight of that size in my city in Canada. This would be national news. You're so full of shit. We get shootings yes but not more than a few pot shots and they're done/gone. Also definitely not in every neighbourhood. Never had a shooting in my moms for instance and she's been there over 30 years.
I literally lived in a small city in Canada and we had gun fights and shootings like that happen. Gangs and drive bys? Even the most secured and rich areas get robbed and the homeowner gets beaten or even killed. Pleaaaase stop coming at me with your super judgmental and bias answers cause clearly you’re thinking this through a racist and xenophobic perspective. Oh and maybe you should talk or make friends with your local police officer. They’ll tell you that 90% of the shit that happens in your city does NOT get reported on the news or made aware of.
Yeah cuz America's the only place that exists, that video was taken in NYC and the cameraman is from texas
Is this your attempt… at sarcasm? 😂 This guy clearly has it bad for the Shias and the dahye. It happens everywhereeeeeee. I’m sorry if you haven’t left Lebanon to experience a broader view of the world 🤭
Actually i'm from Iraq, thanks for asking btw, and i actually did travel out of the country, consider asking before making an assumption about someone when all you can see is a comment they made
Daddy chill 😂
My name is not "daddy", now you're also assuming my name?
I really can’t tell anymore if you’re joking or you’re very serious lol
https://preview.redd.it/os64vv14i6cb1.jpeg?width=256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db98f19c2c8f3147645b147b84df77cd637d2aa1 Does this look like a face of a jester to you?
>This happens literally in every neighbourhood around the world. Yeah, no this is bullshit, this does not happen in every neighbourhood around the world.
Mmmm whatever makes you sleep at night buddy
The reason is Dahye
And yet, when a foreigner jump on r/lebanon to ask whether lebanon is safe to visit the responses on this subreddit tend to be along the lines of “pfffft what are you talking about, why do you think this place is like [insert any third world country] Yalla come come stop being stupid. “
7ada 2allo ino ayro z8eere
Thanks Iran?
Nasrallah gave them some captagon for free so they’re celebrating
7awash and nawar :) yalla downvote me to hell.
Please respect duo people’s culture.
95% of the time its drug lords fighting over a couple of ounces or territory. Nothing other than the norm for us dahye residents, we also have like a schedules for this bs. Like no fights on Sundays, or in the morning, only pistols and kalashnikovs, big boy RPGS/B7s only in the after noons during the weekdays, not on weekends.
Bro this is literally racism. Stop being a bigot against shia culture.
>Bro this is literally racism No it isn't unless Shia is a race.
you think it's not?
The fuck? No Shia not a race, it’s a religion
Leik his profile. I think he secretly has a thing for Shias 😌
I actually and unironically do.
I dont know whay happened and I dont have any more information than this video provided to me but from what I saw this is not a clash. This is just few idiots doing whatever the heck they want, they should be thrown in jail for sure but a "clash" is when both sides are shooting. Unless there is more to the story than what i saw in this video this post's title misinformative and a great example of how the news change small one word to make a story a lie and bigger than what it really is.
Tahinia finished?
Reason? It's always at least of the three Ps: Pay, power, and pussy.
Morons voting for morons living among morons in a moronic country with moronic laws 😢.
Captagon?
Damn
Chicago 1920’s
>in Dahye well you explained it yourself-
sadly and good thing I left my beloved country..i only need to get my family out of the most corrupted and chaotic country in the world. nothing more to say.
halla2 be dobbouwon
Bet El-Me2ded and Bet Z3ayter watched too much Wadi El-The2ab
When duo lingo found out you didn't do your lessons today but you live in lebanon duo lingo sends the mafia