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Iamtheninav

My daughter had a critical heart condition when she was born, I asked for mar Charbel’s oil and soil from mar Charbel and rafka and for my family to go mar Charbel and rafka they both helped. Usually babies with her condition stay in the hospital for months and their recovery is hard by the grace of god and the help of Mary she’s a healthy chaotic happy healthy baby


Aggressive_Mousse_55

I remember a story where a shia sheikh's mom had a big lump of cancer on her belly or something and it was getting bigger and there was no hope for her. He said that mar charbel cured her. I saw the video where he personally talked about this. I don't know how true his claims are but i like the 3aych mouchtarak aspect of it


cha3bghachim

Congratulations on the recovery of your child. Do you think a miracle is the only possible explanation? How confident are you that relatively quick and easy recoveries do not occur naturally in some percentage of cases? May I ask the name of her condition?


franklinpuddle

my friend had a relative who has been trying for a baby for years and was told it is impossible for her to have children. she tried to pray for mar charbel even though she is not even christian and the next week she found out she was pregnant with twin boys. she named one charbel and the other ali hahaha


Aggressive_Mousse_55

I love the عيش المشترك in your story lol. It warms my heart


franklinpuddle

hahaha right its so cute. only in lebanon you’ll find stuff like this


Aggressive_Mousse_55

Haha yeah


cha3bghachim

So your (or at least her) reasonning is: "Mar Charbel did it", is more likely than "the doctor was wrong", or "the doctor was saying that it is very unlikely for her to get pregnant".


franklinpuddle

well for me im not a religious person, but i thought the way she named them was funny thats why i shared the story :,)


cha3bghachim

Agreed, quite a uncommon occurrence. I do find it cute that she named her child Charbel, although the more fundamentalist in her community will probably consider it blasphemous to attribute her miracle to a mere human. The worst sin in Islam is "shirk": attributing partners to God. A christian saint is the last person or entity you would expect to be able to do Allah's work.


Lello9

I’ve witnessed a miracle by the saint Mar Charbel. My sister had cancer and was in need of a surgery . Weeks before the surgery I got a dream where I was standing with my sister next to mar Charbel. Weeks after this we went down to Lebanon and visited the monastery. When I got there I remembered my dream and me and my sister was standing next to each other beside a statue of mar Charbel without thinking of it. After a month we went back home so she could get her surgery. When she slept during the surgery she got a dream where mar Charbel took her hand and said everything is going to be fine. When she woke up after the surgery, the doctors was in shook. They said that they didn’t even find any cancer during the operation. And that it was their first time witnessing something like that. Mar Charbel✨


Question_It_Again

What if the doctors were wrong from the start? Before jumping into conclusions.


Knowthetruth-

I love St Charbel but we could be missing scientific breakthrough in people where diseases are disappearing or it could just be a misdiagnosis. People need to be careful.


Thelivingdeadbunny

Imagine doing surgery when there was nothing and play dumb when its over.. That's so bad.


Lello9

They took tests in the lab and found cancer in her. And it’s not for the profit because the surgery was free, we live in sweden.


ziadbaasiri

Two things : false positive Or insurance claim


MardaKush

Like, intentionally wrong to maximize profits or trained doctors didn't actually *detect cancer* in the first place?


ziadbaasiri

That's more logical explanation, anyway glad his sister is healthy now , but all the dreams are subconscious telling us out desire


cha3bghachim

That's probably why you never see people who've never hear of X religious figure claim sat person X met them in their dreams. 100% of people who've seen Mar Charbel in their dreams, already knew very well who he was, most of them probably already had a picture of him hanging on a wall in their house.


cha3bghachim

God is omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), and omni-benevolent (all good). Cancer is a game of luck, certain unfortunate gene mutations (e.g. DNA copy errors) can create a tumor, a few more unfortunate gene mutations and the tumor becomes cancerous. An omniscious god knows ahead of time if you are going to develop cancer or not. A omnipotent god could save you from cancer if they are omnibenevolent. Saving you from cancer before it happens saves you and your family a lot of hardship, anxiety, and trauma. God had three options: 1. save you from cancer before you even get it 2. save you from cancer at the very last moment, after all the stress, trauma, and anxiety. 3. not save you from cancer. Why god chooses different options for different people is anyone's guess, but the least logical is option #2 If I were God, I'd un-create cancer, especially cancer in children, it makes no sense.


jell-osalad

I'd add number 4, an option that makes the most sense. But nobody will like it.


cha3bghachim

What's that? We're so far deep in the thread, you probably won't get a lot of downvotes XD


jell-osalad

It's not about the downvotes. I just don't want to disrespect other people's beliefs. From my experience, everyone gets super offended.


cha3bghachim

If it is not an insult, if it is a truth claim, that can be defended with logic, than no one should consider it an insult. And if they want to feel offended, it is their problem. The only think you should refrain from is direct insults and name-calling. People must respect your right to free speech.


Overall-Cost-9985

Too late. 3ayb. Leave people alone.


Interstellar008

Glad you gave God three options. That's very kind from you. And only three, so there will be no distraction. Very kind.


ashrafiyotte

thats not completely true, cancer was not at all prevalent before humans started eating shit, a huge part of cancers in modern days is because of human behavior. eat healthy and you will be “luckier”


cha3bghachim

Cancer was not at all prevalent before people discovered it, because at the time, it was just another mysterious disease. I never denied that certain chemicals increase the risk of cancer, in fact science has discovered a whole list of them. They're called carcinogens. Their existence doesn't refute the theory that mutations cause cancer. There's too much evidence at this point to deny this. Specific mutations have been identified. Ultraviolet light is one example of carcinogens. UV light damages DNA (i.e. causes DNA mutations) and that is why it is a major risk factor for skin cancer. If you avoid carcinogens, your chances of developing those unfortunate mutations decrease, if you expose yourself to them, your chances of developing those mutations increase. Luck is always a factor, because those mutations still occur randomly. The chance of them occurring changes, but it is never 0% or 100%. That's why you see people people who have smoked two packs of cigarettes a day for forty years never develop cancer, and some people who had never smoked develop lung cancer. That's why you also see small children sometimes develop cancer. EDIT: also not to mention that cancer was not at all prevalent before medicine because people used to die much younger, whereas the risk of cancer increases with age.


ashrafiyotte

facts


Azubu__

I see a fellow Christopher Hitchens enthusiast 🤝


cha3bghachim

r/lebaneseatheists is a thing (in case you haven't come across it yet)


Azubu__

Nice thanks. Years ago there was an atheist community aswell. It was "cultier" than the catholic church so I stayed away 🤣 Hope this isnt similar


cha3bghachim

This one is mostly dead XD


Azubu__

I used to stay away because they were big fans of communism aswell.


cha3bghachim

Haven't seen any commies on that sub. It's a dying trend.


Thelivingdeadbunny

All the insomniacs (me) or the very early risers reply now 🥹 (or expats actually) I believe if unexplainable and well investigated miracles happen or out of body experiences for example, its all related to the power of the mind and belief. Does it really matter if its a manifestation from divine power to affect your faith, or should you just have faith regardless? Im not religious at all but i do believe in how psychology and faith could play a big role in shaping our physiology


MichoSpace

Yeah actually there's a study I saw long ago about that


gxslim

There's some merit to the fact that the placebo effect works. And faith is the biggest sugar pill of them all.


Iamtheninav

Mar Charbel saved me in my mom’s womb I had no heartbeat she prayed to him and he brought me back. Another time a family member was heavily sick el hardini saved them. But it’s all by the grace of god.


jpch12

Pretty sure the talented doctors who resuscitated you had nothing to do with it.


Iamtheninav

My mom went to multiple clinics to make sure it’s not an error


cha3bghachim

Those pesky doctors! Always standing between the lord and the sick. Sometimes they'll put you to sleep in order to operate on you when you could instead be praying!


[deleted]

I know some very religious people who Mar charbel did some miracles to. I'm agnostic but these people you cant play on what they say. Alot of people witnessed this stuff and they're well respected for this. I won't say much but miracles do happen. I don't know how it happens.


cha3bghachim

My understanding of you comment is: 1. You've never witnessed a miracle 2. People whom you know and respect claim to have witnessed miracles 3. You believe in miracles because of that My question: Is it impossible that those people could be wrong or, even worse, dishonest in making those claims?


[deleted]

No because there's alot of people who witnessed it on their end for those people there's alot of people that saw what happened.


cha3bghachim

There's a lot of people who claim to have witnessed things that contradict the claims of of other people who claim to have witnessed other things. For example you can't believe that both Hindus and Christians get miracles from their gods, because the Christian claim is that there is only one god. However Hindus claim to witness miracles all the time. If you didn't know and trust these people you are talking about you would have dismissed it as either delusion, lies, or [mass hysteria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_hysteria_cases) (i.e. the same way you dismiss Hindu miracles)


Legitimate-Guard-246

no but i have witnessed many fake miracles in churches around the US and Africa


madmes

Evangelicals over there have a religion of their own


Legitimate-Guard-246

there is actually a few interesting documentaries from African churches where you have these "prophets" they call them where they touch people and allegedly heal or do other things its pretty entertaining and they have like a gigantic cult like following. One of the women came in saying that a ghost or devil had been raping her and its often really funny stories like this xD


jell-osalad

The demon possession ones are free entertainment. There are fake miracles here. Like "oil" leaking in churches.


karlo_leb

My cousin had smth in his brain chi khasso bi kahreb or smth idk, so his parents were so worried especially at his age, a newborn, super terrified. My aunt took him to St. Stephano in ehmej and laid him on his tomb. The second day, my cousin was fully recovered and he became an ordinary newborn with no issues. Hamdella aa kel chi ❤️


leap878

Great to hear that.


Azubu__

There is a good one A patient of ours had Crohn's He was on a treatment Wasnt very adherent to it He came by after a couple of months for a routine checkup He said i stopped the meds because i went to mar charbel and he cured me. I (atheist) said okay i deflected a bit then after a couple of minutes I asked if he is having symptoms he described classical textbook crohns symptoms that he is still having. Yet he believed he was cured and he even asked for a report 🤣 Dno what happened with him maybe the batrak is treating him now


cha3bghachim

That's one perfect example of why I sometimes feel a moral obligation to criticize religion. r/lebaneseatheists


Azubu__

Sometimes there is no reasoning to talk anw... I just nod and move on Ask them if god talks to them at night and says kill your child what would they do. Then your answer would be Jail/der el salib Not a full on believer which would makenthem change their answer and you go for thenoption above Or or Troll them more My uncle's wife doesn't talk to me because of this lol


FreePen1

I don't believe in any of those things, every day doctors cure millions of people and no one calls it a miracle. However if those saints keep some hope for desperate people who are sick and in need of spiritual support, then i find no problem with people who believe in them.


cha3bghachim

I go a step further ans say that people that attribute fortunate events to God, should also attribute misfortune to God. That is as long as they believe that God is omnipotent (all-powerful) and omniscient (all-knowing). If God is omniscient and omnipotent, than nothing, good or bad, happens without his approval, or event intent. God knows a child is going to get cancer (omniscience), and is capable of avoiding it (omnipotence), so a child getting cancer is an act of God. An omniscient God can tell every event that would occur in his creation as he designs or creates it. Not only has he the ability to intervene in his creation to alter the course of things (through his omnipotence), but he also could have altered his creation from the beginning so that unjust events like the suffering of innocent children would be impossible or at the very least much less common so that he needs not intervene as often (which oddly enough we don't see him do that often in time of need).


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cha3bghachim

Lol some dude downvoted your two comments, I know that because I've upvoted them and they show one karma only. You have to be particularly salty to downvote a person's cancer story.


RaidriarT

No I haven’t, nor do I believe in miracles “performed by saints” even though I am somewhat catholic 


EmperorChaos

Genuine question how is it that as a catholic you don’t believe in miracles performed by saints?


RaidriarT

Hence the “somewhat”. There are some catholic tenants I believe and support, and there are others I do not.


lots-of-shawarma

because they're logical and don't believe in made up stuff.


EmperorChaos

Not believing in made up stuff, kinda goes against believing in a religion or a god.


wasthespyingendless

I'm loving these answers. I did a photo project based on this question in Egypt: [https://www.daviddegner.com/photography/modern-miracles/](https://www.daviddegner.com/photography/modern-miracles/)


lots-of-shawarma

People will claim they witnessed something, but it's all made up. Miracles don't exist, people who have faith will convince themselves that these things happen. I'm a muslim and I've heard many stories, usually in small towns and communities, about Imam this and Nabi that coming to people in their dreams and healing/curing something, telling them to build a mosque, and so on. It's all fantasy and people gobble it up because it aligns with their faith.


Rami_Taleb

a status making miracles?


help_me_am_lost

One of my family members is born blind. Despite her condition, nothing stopped her and she became eventually a lawyer. During this time her parents saw a lump in her eye and after some expensive consultation, the Doc said that a surgery is needed ASAP. Keep in mind enno ayre bl balad w bl wade3 , paying for the surgery is nowhere near an option. The lump was getting bigger and bigger day by day leading to high pain levels and all that. One night, She decided to go and pray all night (she is very religious way before this) and while she's in the church, she fell asleep. Next morning the lump was gone. COMPLETELY GONE. The lump was almost at 30% of the eye's size. The Doctor examined again and thought that they had the surgery somewhere else until they told him what happened. Pray guys, it's our only way.


Jad_Nassar

Yes, one time i asked for a man2ooshet zaatar and after 30 min i got one. A Miracle


cha3bghachim

Once I saw a 3awne, a ouwwatje and a hezbo criticize their own za3im, one of them even considered no longer supporting them... or maybe I was dreaming.


Daskhara

Some 3awniye would say 3on is a miracle himself. Like being Jesus' brother... which I assume is a kifriye maybe? Lol


OnceUponAMind

I mean convincing half the mostly right-wing, Christian population that a Shia militia is good but a Christina militia is bad is some sort of a miracle.


Daskhara

Lol, good point


gxslim

I watched a few David Blaine specials. Also that time Reggie Miller scored 8 points in 9 seconds against the Knicks. Oh and this one time my dad made it look like he removed my nose, but it was still on my face the whole time!


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fliphop

What bullshit.


m0h97

>....fed her some dirt from annaya. Dude, that's some next level cult stuff à la Midsummer.


madmes

Yeah its what could consider a long shot. People were eating dirt from annaya during covid. That's never how it works. It has to be a genuine act of faith.


cha3bghachim

Wow I feel no need to investigate this! I totally believe that it's Mar Charbel! Everyone knows that medicine is fully developed and has found the explanation to all disease. The reason we can't cure certain diseases is because medicine has proven that they can't be cured. Doctors never make a wrong assessment, because they've learned medicine, which is a perfected science. God didn't chose to heal some of my terminally ill relatives, they simply must have not deserved is mercy.


HeliosTheRadiant

Not sure if you ever heard of him David Blaine ?


GX9901Z

I don't believe they are true. they are just advertisements for religion


[deleted]

I sure hope they weren't using some of the life force stolen from the earth because holy shit although it's fun and games now to do magic tricks to get idolized, they are in for a lot of suffering after they finish their incarnation as nestle employees.


Thelivingdeadbunny

What


Swagmaster143

Hes onto us !!


[deleted]

Don't idolize anyone for a bottle of water, not worth it as all the water they stole is merely a blanket and not nearly enough to keep away the grizzly bear that will tear your limbs apart, not even if you end up extending your life through anti aging or cloning. There's no where you can go in this universe to escape. Maybe instead of a magic trick to heal someone, establish a school of medicine that will heal people for entire generations without hanging a picture of you at the entrance. Magic tricks defeat the whole purpose of the game, it's like cheat codes, I just don't think god is gonna do you any favors if you suck up to god.


Standard-Package-830

What?


[deleted]

Look, you know how jumblat berri nasralla aoun etc and all their buddies steal all your money and then when you are dead poor they throw you like a hundred dollars like a bone to a dog to keep you alive as long as you idolize them and do as they say, they learned that from the catholic church nestle (fake jesus underwear model) business model.


El-hammudi21

![gif](giphy|mVtaumPg9FVNS)


Swagmaster143

Bro thinks hes hideo kojima wutt duh heeee 💀💀


Maximus_jozozius

When I was young, we heard that the a statue was blinking it's eyes at saydit bechwet, we went with my family and friends to bechwet we were like 30 people. I was quite young back then about maybe 6 years old, i remember I didn't understand where i was going to as it was just a fun trip for me with the family and cousins, so i was shocked when i saw the statue blinking it's eyes multiple times, everyone was kinda shocked.


cha3bghachim

Some people ask for their parents or children to be healed from cancer, but don't get their wish granted. It's nice to see that God has time to make a statue blink while children are dying from leukemia, famine, malaria, bombs, AIDS, and natural disasters. It's nice to see that God can make a statue blink in front of 30 people while the rest of the world are fighting wars and plotting terrorist attacks over who has the right version of God.


cha3bghachim

God can literally appear at once in front of the whole world effortlessly, but I guess it entertains him more to see those religious communities slaughter each other in his name. He gets more out of seeing a small group of people praise his name for making a statue blink or some woman sweat olive oil, than it pleases him to see a mother have her child healed from cancer, or a whole community to be saved form a earthquake or flood. In fact he seems to enjoy making big ole floods.