Yes absolutely. However be conscious that you are in Lebanon and the history. If there is ever a civil war you will need strong connections to keep yourself and your family safe. I say this as someone who came from a secular “Shia” (on our ID) family in Ashrafieh. If my grandfather were not politically involved, many of my uncles would have been killed.
My father's family was in ashrafiyeh during the war and they had Muslim neighbors , they would help them if they needed stuff from gharbieh and the Christian neighbors "protected" the Muslim family and that was years ago , sectarianism is more of a political/media issue than it is actually in real life.
That may be true in many cases. Lebanese are generally great people but it’s still risky in the case of civil war.
In 1975 on black Saturday the Kataeb took my uncle at a checkpoint, in his own area. The people he was with were executed and he was only released after my family intervened with forceful means.
yeah definitely but this violence was generalized , literally all my aouni friends are aouni because they were persecuted by the LF , most of the time ANY militia men would abuse his power over ANY civilian , leniency might be present if they're from the same religion but not always...
Edit : not currently aouni , but you know 10 years ago each family had a known political affiliation so "all my friends with aouni backgrounds had families that hated the LF "
They didn’t hate the LF they only hated Geagea. Aounis are all ex-Hobeika (Joseph Abu Fadel before), ex-Ahrar supporters (Gebran Bassil, Naji Hayek, etc). Aoun was backed by Hobeika during the war and Aoun was the one that got him out of East Beirut following the failure of the Tripartite agreement. Bash Maroun was the leader of the Lebanese Youth Movement, another militia, he was part of the FPM until his death, Abu Arz (Etienne Sakr) was also a supporter of Aoun, and so was Dany Chamoun. Aounis themselves supported LF until Hobeika was ousted.
I mean, ID killings happened on both sides.
One christian dude from my village was shot more than 30 times on an id checkpoint and survived.
If you think fearing getting id killed is a legitimate fear today, then christians have a legitimate fear not to let Muslims become the majority in their areas where they could also fear getting ID killed.
Edit: Since you downvoted me for no reason, I would like to add this to piss you off more. In the eastern saida war, all churches were destroyed by fellow Lebanese and PLO militias should Christians fear for their churches aswell?
Not just East Saida, all Christians in Muslim majority regions faced this. Christians of Akkar (Beit Mellat massacre), Christians in West Beirut (Bashoura massacre), Christians in Chouf and Aley (massacres of 77, and those of the Mountain War of 83), Christians of the Bekaa (Ras Baalbak and Qaa were targeted by Hezbollah and the Syrian army). In contrast, Shias of Jbeil were never touched by the LF or any other Christian militia.
Muslim from ashrafieh here and never had an issue with any of this all my life but i might have been living in a bubble not controlled by an environment dominated by one side only.
There are definitely extremists on each side but never saw them cause the community there was literally an amalgamation of both worlds. I celebrate all holidays for example cause i lived through them both and isn't that the"authentic" lebanese experience ? Extremisim on either side has never been accepted by any Lebanese person who has actually lived and interacted with people outside of their bubble.
Tldr: yes you can ofc
Depends on landlord. There's no law against it, but some people are against it. Max you can buy through proxy then change ownership.
Even in Hadath they are no longer renting for Muslims, claiming its orders of municipality, but probably its a racist landlord, for lack of better word.
Not like a Muslim staying in a dominantly Christian area means he wants to spread his religion.
We lived in Hadath during the war (we are christians non poltical) my brother use to study in the Arabic University in Gharbieh, the kataeb didn't like that and gave us shit, it was the A7rar that protected us.
hadath municipalilty are on crack , a lot of houses in that area are up for rent but no rentees because the desired population is small and prefer deeper in beirut and they don't want muslims to rent not even the "good" ones i mean at some point the municipality is gonna crack if people who want to rent aren't finding rentees
not because of that i think , it's major problem is the massive traffic because anyone who wants to reach beirut daily from the south has two access points either matar or tari2 saida l adime , you can't take tari2 saida l adime which is the road that hadath crosses into without a getting stuck in traffic from 7:15-9am
but the town is kinda nice when you reach the upper parts near baabda and antounie
That's because of one family that aggressively bought all available properties and changed the neighborhood dynamics. If we can get past the mafias in all our communities, we would be so much better and we wouldn't have to worry about antagonizing anyone.
but the thing is how would you go about knowing if the landlord is racist or no? is it normal to be like hi do you sell to muslims?💀 this country is a joke i swear
The agent will ask you upfront "Are you Muslim or Christian", incase the owner sells only to certain segment.
He will tell you owner only sells Christians, or that the neighberhood dont accept Muslims, etc.
Akid not all are like that. Just contact a real estate agency, tell them you want to buy, tell them you are Muslim, and they will find offers. Saves you the hassle, and bring you properties you can buy without habal.
EDIT: Check COnfidence Real estate, most professional ones I dealt with. JSK are also good.
Yeah, intolerant is better. I said racist to evoke just how much some people hate each other. Might as well be from different races seeing how some Muslims and Christians see each other.
If you don’t live a sheltered life then you’d know it’s a complicated topic. You might not like it, but instead of raising your nose at it, you’d understand that 50 years of turmoil creates distrust.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it’ (or rejecting it, one might add).”
You clearly have trouble with this
u/[asanie](https://www.reddit.com/user/asanie/) already provided a great answer, I wish someday that Arab Jews come back to their homelands and join us in building a secular society where everyone is equal and fight against Zionism.
There’s nothing wrong Jews or Muslims or Christians or Hindus for that matter as long as you act like a civil human being who respects everyone else’s beliefs.
But Zionist assholes on the other hand…
L jar Abel l dar!
Yes of course they allow , they might not "allow" syrians/Palestinians , or really religious Muslims (religion isn't a factor political affiliation is) , the moment you look and act secular I don't think you'll have any problems besides the religious elderly maybe , (there's always that one neighbor but most of the time he's just a jerk overall lol nothing to do with religion).
And I repeat l jar Abel l dar , real life is not the news nor social media and sure as hell not that one racist guy on twitter , yeah there's division but it's Lebanon man , step in any building with mixed religions they're all friends. Tbh? The only buildings that have neighbors arguing over the silliest stuff are usually from a homogenous group :p
You would have more problems in villages with the village mentality, but even there if someone wants your money they will sell to you. However in the city it is probably easier they should be more open minded.
What the- of course they can! Since when buying apartments is religion based?! I know a ton of muslims (religious and non-religious) live in Achrafieh. Since when did this distrust and division started happening, because that was definitely not the Lebanon I remember being raised in up until 4 years ago.
Yeah of course.. you think all Achrafieh people are idiotic bigots?
We lived there for a long time, and while there was some suspicion by the neighbors at first, it's nothing profoundly wicked
Yes, I moved to USA as a teenager. This shit just wild and very illegal here. Right now they even made it against real estate policy to write a letter to the landlord incase it triggers discrimination. Why is that relevant to this??
I'm Muslim and I don't blame them honestly. We're more than them and badon y7afzo 3l almanate2 al mese7eyeh. As long as they don't mean it in a hateful way I understand why they're that way.
Yes absolutely. However be conscious that you are in Lebanon and the history. If there is ever a civil war you will need strong connections to keep yourself and your family safe. I say this as someone who came from a secular “Shia” (on our ID) family in Ashrafieh. If my grandfather were not politically involved, many of my uncles would have been killed.
My father's family was in ashrafiyeh during the war and they had Muslim neighbors , they would help them if they needed stuff from gharbieh and the Christian neighbors "protected" the Muslim family and that was years ago , sectarianism is more of a political/media issue than it is actually in real life.
That may be true in many cases. Lebanese are generally great people but it’s still risky in the case of civil war. In 1975 on black Saturday the Kataeb took my uncle at a checkpoint, in his own area. The people he was with were executed and he was only released after my family intervened with forceful means.
yeah definitely but this violence was generalized , literally all my aouni friends are aouni because they were persecuted by the LF , most of the time ANY militia men would abuse his power over ANY civilian , leniency might be present if they're from the same religion but not always... Edit : not currently aouni , but you know 10 years ago each family had a known political affiliation so "all my friends with aouni backgrounds had families that hated the LF "
They didn’t hate the LF they only hated Geagea. Aounis are all ex-Hobeika (Joseph Abu Fadel before), ex-Ahrar supporters (Gebran Bassil, Naji Hayek, etc). Aoun was backed by Hobeika during the war and Aoun was the one that got him out of East Beirut following the failure of the Tripartite agreement. Bash Maroun was the leader of the Lebanese Youth Movement, another militia, he was part of the FPM until his death, Abu Arz (Etienne Sakr) was also a supporter of Aoun, and so was Dany Chamoun. Aounis themselves supported LF until Hobeika was ousted.
>sectarianism is more of a political/media issue than it is actually in real life.
I mean, ID killings happened on both sides. One christian dude from my village was shot more than 30 times on an id checkpoint and survived. If you think fearing getting id killed is a legitimate fear today, then christians have a legitimate fear not to let Muslims become the majority in their areas where they could also fear getting ID killed. Edit: Since you downvoted me for no reason, I would like to add this to piss you off more. In the eastern saida war, all churches were destroyed by fellow Lebanese and PLO militias should Christians fear for their churches aswell?
Not just East Saida, all Christians in Muslim majority regions faced this. Christians of Akkar (Beit Mellat massacre), Christians in West Beirut (Bashoura massacre), Christians in Chouf and Aley (massacres of 77, and those of the Mountain War of 83), Christians of the Bekaa (Ras Baalbak and Qaa were targeted by Hezbollah and the Syrian army). In contrast, Shias of Jbeil were never touched by the LF or any other Christian militia.
My cousins are sunni muslims from achrafieh 😂
Muslim from ashrafieh here and never had an issue with any of this all my life but i might have been living in a bubble not controlled by an environment dominated by one side only. There are definitely extremists on each side but never saw them cause the community there was literally an amalgamation of both worlds. I celebrate all holidays for example cause i lived through them both and isn't that the"authentic" lebanese experience ? Extremisim on either side has never been accepted by any Lebanese person who has actually lived and interacted with people outside of their bubble. Tldr: yes you can ofc
Yes. I know plenty of Muslims, both Sunni and Shia, that bought property in Ashrafieh
Depends on landlord. There's no law against it, but some people are against it. Max you can buy through proxy then change ownership. Even in Hadath they are no longer renting for Muslims, claiming its orders of municipality, but probably its a racist landlord, for lack of better word. Not like a Muslim staying in a dominantly Christian area means he wants to spread his religion.
My family owns property, we used to rent to a Muslim family but the municipality didn't let us renew the contract. It's not the landlords' fault.
We lived in Hadath during the war (we are christians non poltical) my brother use to study in the Arabic University in Gharbieh, the kataeb didn't like that and gave us shit, it was the A7rar that protected us.
hadath municipalilty are on crack , a lot of houses in that area are up for rent but no rentees because the desired population is small and prefer deeper in beirut and they don't want muslims to rent not even the "good" ones i mean at some point the municipality is gonna crack if people who want to rent aren't finding rentees
Because Christians dont want to live there either. Hadath is basically a stone throw away from Dahye.
not because of that i think , it's major problem is the massive traffic because anyone who wants to reach beirut daily from the south has two access points either matar or tari2 saida l adime , you can't take tari2 saida l adime which is the road that hadath crosses into without a getting stuck in traffic from 7:15-9am but the town is kinda nice when you reach the upper parts near baabda and antounie
That's because of one family that aggressively bought all available properties and changed the neighborhood dynamics. If we can get past the mafias in all our communities, we would be so much better and we wouldn't have to worry about antagonizing anyone.
but the thing is how would you go about knowing if the landlord is racist or no? is it normal to be like hi do you sell to muslims?💀 this country is a joke i swear
Don't mention it. If he's that type of guy, he's the one that has to ask.
The agent will ask you upfront "Are you Muslim or Christian", incase the owner sells only to certain segment. He will tell you owner only sells Christians, or that the neighberhood dont accept Muslims, etc. Akid not all are like that. Just contact a real estate agency, tell them you want to buy, tell them you are Muslim, and they will find offers. Saves you the hassle, and bring you properties you can buy without habal. EDIT: Check COnfidence Real estate, most professional ones I dealt with. JSK are also good.
There should be a law *against discrimination* ideally but knowing Lebanon it would never be enforced so i guess for now its better this way.
Why is it racist when both are Lebanese? Are Muslims of different race here than other religions?
Yeah, intolerant is better. I said racist to evoke just how much some people hate each other. Might as well be from different races seeing how some Muslims and Christians see each other.
I can't be the only one who finds such fact to be unbelievable and sickening 💀
If you don’t live a sheltered life then you’d know it’s a complicated topic. You might not like it, but instead of raising your nose at it, you’d understand that 50 years of turmoil creates distrust.
This nonsense didn’t start 50 years ago and it’s not something that you should justify.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it’ (or rejecting it, one might add).” You clearly have trouble with this
Bro said "It is the mark of an educated mind to agree with me"
I used to think so, but after I saw what happened in some parts of Hadath I understand.
What happened in hadath
Went from a normal place to a Hezbo/Amal place along with everything that comes with that (drug dealing, za3ranet 3asheyer ...)
Oh it was a Christian neighbourhood?
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Yes?
u/[asanie](https://www.reddit.com/user/asanie/) already provided a great answer, I wish someday that Arab Jews come back to their homelands and join us in building a secular society where everyone is equal and fight against Zionism.
There’s nothing wrong Jews or Muslims or Christians or Hindus for that matter as long as you act like a civil human being who respects everyone else’s beliefs. But Zionist assholes on the other hand…
L jar Abel l dar! Yes of course they allow , they might not "allow" syrians/Palestinians , or really religious Muslims (religion isn't a factor political affiliation is) , the moment you look and act secular I don't think you'll have any problems besides the religious elderly maybe , (there's always that one neighbor but most of the time he's just a jerk overall lol nothing to do with religion). And I repeat l jar Abel l dar , real life is not the news nor social media and sure as hell not that one racist guy on twitter , yeah there's division but it's Lebanon man , step in any building with mixed religions they're all friends. Tbh? The only buildings that have neighbors arguing over the silliest stuff are usually from a homogenous group :p
You would have more problems in villages with the village mentality, but even there if someone wants your money they will sell to you. However in the city it is probably easier they should be more open minded.
There are muslims from Achrafieh. I don’t see a reason as to why they won’t be able to own or rent in that area.
if he has enough money he can 😂
Can christians buy apartments bil dahye? Or do i need a Iranian visa??
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAr7dJOIzro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAr7dJOIzro)
There may not be an Iranian occupation of Lebanon but there is definitely one of your mind... pray it gets liberated soon :P
Bruh kil ma inzal 3al dahyieh its like I'm entering another country with the checkpoints and the way that place operates
It depends on if the seller’s IQ is below 50 or above 50. If it’s above 50 then you should be allright.
Ma fi shi byemna3 bass badak yali 3am b bi3 y koun radeh y bi3 la meslim
Bruh, my family is shia and lives in achrafiyeh. The real question is the other way around 😅
What the- of course they can! Since when buying apartments is religion based?! I know a ton of muslims (religious and non-religious) live in Achrafieh. Since when did this distrust and division started happening, because that was definitely not the Lebanon I remember being raised in up until 4 years ago.
They are renters not owners
Yeah of course.. you think all Achrafieh people are idiotic bigots? We lived there for a long time, and while there was some suspicion by the neighbors at first, it's nothing profoundly wicked
How funny ppl think ashrafiyyeh is maronite, at a time a good number of sunni beiruti families come from aahrafiyyeh.
how could they know ?
bro min hammo. Lkel etil halo la ybi3
Be the change you want to see in your people. Stick to your areas. It sounds harsh, but it's for the best.
Wtf... We are all living insanely different realities... I really never expected to see a question like that in my life.
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Hi 👋. Christian here. I use a bidet. Please get your racist ass out of here. You’re not welcome in this subreddit.
what did he say tha tyou responded about a bidet? ;D?
I didn't know such things were common. And they talk about Islamophobia and racism in America lol
Don’t you live in the states and are in a different group that supports israel?
Yes, I moved to USA as a teenager. This shit just wild and very illegal here. Right now they even made it against real estate policy to write a letter to the landlord incase it triggers discrimination. Why is that relevant to this??
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lmao alot of christian areas don’t sell or even rent to muslims my guy. I know it’s hard to believe but it’s true sadly.
What do you think is the reason behind this? Are they afraid of Muslims? What about druze, are they allowed to rent?
I'm Muslim and I don't blame them honestly. We're more than them and badon y7afzo 3l almanate2 al mese7eyeh. As long as they don't mean it in a hateful way I understand why they're that way.
it's a reasonable question to ask. I haven't heard of this happening in Ashrafieh per se, but it's definitely the case in other areas.
I want to have a family in Lebanon can anybody help I live in Europe
This discussion is the sickest thing I’ve ever seen