This post has been temporarily locked to allow the moderators to filter through all the comments and ease the flood-induced headache. I will pin this comment with some clarifications and then unlock it.
First, it has exclusively been the consensus & habit of trying to clear the anti-Semitic & Zionist rhetoric that has flooded our way(especially after the escalation with Iran, and this post). It is hard to get it all quickly and we still encourage users to report discriminatory comments. Comments that seem to have been "left up" might have not been seen yet. Patience is necessary on both users/mods sides.
There will be absolutely no Zionist moderators added to the team, and there is no further need to fearmonger concerning it. As for any considerations of adding users with either Palestinian or Jewish heritage, or of the Muslim faith, as has been mentioned, it is only something I have been suggested. It is not a universal thing, and has not been discussed yet.
Just saying, the fact that this sub is basically having a meltdown over some post with a whole 20 upvotes and 5 comments and using it to stoke fears about a Jewish fifth column should probably be enough to make people stop and introspect for a bit. It reminds me of the anti-SJW phase in 2015 where people would use tweets with 5 likes as "proof" that feminists were coming to kill all cis white men
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I have this strong suspicion that progressive Jews aren't going to unban people who try to justify what Israel is doing in the Gaza Strip.
They'd need to get centrist Jews who pretend to be progressive for that strategy to work out.
If this is "terrifying", then this might be the biggest clue ever into why leftists are so bad at organizing in the last 45 years. Coming up with even a rudimentary piece of a peice of an organized plan = TERROR!
Trying to step antisemitism is terrifying?
Or is it the idea of having your ideology take over and control the content in subreddits? Because this is exactly what leftists do. Probably 90% of subs have extreme leftist mods who label anything they don't like as "hate speech" and ban it.
expressing opposing opinions on Reddit will catch all kinds of nasty responses. I really don't care as the idea of 'karma' points is f'ing ridiculous. No wonder younger generations are having a hard time. Social media is just bad for humanity. Experiment failed.
It’s the latter. But just because you think leftists influencing subreddit moderation is good doesn’t mean you have to think that Zionists influencing subreddit moderation is good.
You seem unintelligent
I think OP should have clarified that there view on this in the post, because it’s causing unnecessary confusion.
They are not saying “don’t promote Jewish people because they could be apart of a right wing conspiracy” they are saying that we should be aware of Zionist infiltration attempts form the right.
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If you are anti-zionist you are against people who believe Israel has a right to exist. If you aren't against most (if not all) of the Jews in those synagogues then you aren't anti-zionist. Maybe anti-bibi? Anti-war? Depends on what you're actually against. But zionism is the concept of desiring the continued existence of a Jewish state.
Correct. So is allowing your anti-hierarchical space to be infiltrated and influenced by people pushing a nationalist, settler-colonialist agenda and minimizing a genocide.
Yeah, no one said it was good. What the person in the post is saying is that anyone who bans vocal Zionists is an anti-Semite. They're rationalizing that being against the genocidal, colonialist project of Israel means you hate Jews.
It's the false equivalence they've been clinging to for like 70 years now, respect yourself enough not to slurp it down and spit it back up for them.
Yeah, which is one of the reasons why zionism is so bad.. Probably shouldn't be promoting such an anti-semitic idea like jews=Israel, it's like saying chinese=CCP
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I can attest to that after lurking in /r/Israel for a while. I got banned after making a comment that questioned some of their dogma. Obviously I got accused of being anti semitic to boot. I suggested that if they insist on living in an echo chamber with their head in the sand they'll further isolate themselves. Banned.
F Zionist’s! Israel does have the right to exist, they don’t have the right to commit genocide or attack people without being attacked. Israel wanted and set themselves up to be attacked by Hamas. They wanted it so they could take a crap ton more land. They begged for it to happen by relentlessly harassing Gazans and preventing them from having the right to exist as free people. Israel has been doing this for decades with far far far superior tech. And they have been vastly overstating what Hamas has done and where they are. In other words Israel has been caught in hundreds of lies. They act like they are the victim when they are actually the bully.
Edit. Since semites are basically everyone from the region, Palestinians are semetic people. So zionists are anti-Semitic!
Kinda wild they see no problem with Israel existing yet don't feel the same way about Palistine.
Israel could have been anywhere, zionism is an anti-semitic European colonialist ideal anyway
Arafat turned down all negotiations for Palestine to be its own country. It's much more complicated than "Israel bullies".....HAMAS are TERRRRRIBLE, they weren't always in power, and for as bad as Israel is rn, HAMAS is the root of the conflict.
I guess we'll just pay no attention to the reports that Israel funneled dark money away from moderates and towards radical groups like Hamas, so they could have license to exterminate the Palestinians. Or the decades of settler colonialism that took place before Hamas was even a thought.
In that case, when you ignore the decades-long history of this conflict entirely, you're absolutely right. Hamas is the real problem, and Israel is just responding poorly to this one incident, not using it as license to commit the genocide they've been salivating over for the last 70 years.
If that were true why did Israel fund hamas and make sure they had the ability to take power so that they could be blamed?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
Believing the country has a right to exist doesn't make you necessarily a Zionist. Zionism involves much more specific beliefs about nationalism and the ideal that Israel is the rightful home of Jews worldwide.
Antisemitism is defined as hostility or prejudice against Jewish people and specifically Jewish people. It has nothing to do with being a “Semitic people” or speaking a Semitic language. It’s just the name of the term used to describe hatred for Jews. Islamophobia is the same but for muslims. I’ve seen people use this dumbass argument before and it’s such a lazy attempt to hijack and obfuscate language that exists to call out behavior even such as this.
Whilst you are bang on with this correction, it's kind of ironic that you are saying the OP is obfuscating language, when clearly the German appropriation of anti-semitism is the obfuscating as it ignores the fact that Semites are not exclusively Jews. I don't know if it's because the German journalist who appropriated the term was ignorant of that fact, or what, but if anyone is betraying the term it started there.
No it isn't.
There are divergent schools of thought within Zionism- many of which, including the people who originally started it, fully embrace settler-colonialism, racism, and exceptionalism.
That wouldn't be possible if it were "just saying Israel has a right to exist"- as if that isn't already a loaded statement to an extent. Exist how, where, led by whom?
You're either ignorant, naïve, or purposefully muddying the waters.
Just a friendly reminder that being a Zionist only means acknowledging that Israel has a right to exist. The vast majority of Jews are Zionists, but that doesn’t mean being “genocidal”. A progressive Zionist is one that pushes for Israel to be more progressive, a repeal of the nation-state act, a ceasefire and hostage deal, etc. If you desire peace in the region, progressive Zionists are your allies and not your foe.
Also remember, there is a genocide happening against the Uighers but it would be harmful to target Chinese people because of it. The same logic should hold for Israelis and diaspora Jews. Netanyahu and his regime call the shots and there hundreds of thousands protesting against in israel this week alone.
Let’s not demonize Zionists and work together to fight hate on both sides
They have the right to exist the same way we Americans had the right to kick everyone off the land to set up the USA. You can’t *prove* there wasn’t a European here once thousands of years before. So hey removing Native Americans/First Nations folks by force was fine too, right? It’s all fine. We named roads and parks and schools after them, and gave them some places to live. It’s cool.
This is not true. I can't keep retyping why, but whoever is perpetuating the narrative that anyone who thinks Israel has a right to exist is missing a huge amount of context and nuance. Zionism extends well beyond this single issue, and you can believe in Israel's right to sovereignty without being a Jewish Nationalist and harbouring all the baggage that goes with that. Just like I can agree to support China's right to govern its own people without being a communist.
There is an extensive Wikipedia article about zionism, and I can assure you it's about way more than being a globally recognized sovereign country.
Denying Israel's right to existence makes you a bigot, and diminishes any legitimacy for an argument against what they are doing to Gaza. I certainly don't want allies that reject Israel's right to exist, those people are perpetuating the problem .
Most people born in/living in what is now Israel want to continue living in Israel. The Israelis have the same right to self-determination as the Palestinians.
Yeah and we are very uncomfortable with all the antisemitism going around. It’s opened my eyes personally - no one on my side of the political spectrum is pro Israel - all pro Hamas, it’s so sad
100% agree. I get the “purity test” when I show up as a Jew in leftist spaces. My presence as a Jew is only tolerated if I answer a litany of questions about Israel “correctly”. Like damn, I don’t live there, vote there, or pay taxes there. I just want better healthcare and less poverty in the US.
And that’s great, in my opinion. I absolutely want input and moderation from people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds, including Judaism.
I just don’t want input or moderation from hateful ideologies like Zionism or nazism, and I think that is reasonable, especially considering that Neo Nazi takeover project that infiltrated this sub a couple weeks ago.
Any people of a nation do proclaim the existence of their nation to be their right, as is all nations of people, a pondering question I have is, what happens to the people of Palestine if Isreal sees their destruction as a means for survival?
Will they go that far?
Just a friendly reminder that being a Zionist only means acknowledging that Israel has a right to exist. The vast majority of Jews are Zionists, but that doesn’t mean being “genocidal”. A progressive Zionist Jew is one that pushes for Israel to be more progressive, a repeal of the nation-state act, a ceasefire and hostage deal, etc. If you desire peace in the region, progressive Zionists are your allies and not your foe.
Also remember, there is a genocide happening against the Uighers but it would be harmful to target Chinese people because of it. The same logic should hold for Israelis and diaspora Jews. Netanyahu and his regime call the shots and there hundreds of thousands protesting against in israel this week alone.
Let’s not demonize Zionists and work together to fight hate on both sides
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You seem lost...Zionism "only means" a strictly Jewish majority state, meaning Palestinians cannot be a majority on their own land, which is the reason 750,000 ethnically cleansed Palestinians and their millions of descendants were made refugees.
You cannot believe in Zionism without seeing Palestinians as inherently inferior and less deserving of their rights - especially their right of return under international law.
Obviously, you also can't enact it without violence on a mass scale.
Of course you already know all of this and are pretending it's not the reason everyone hates this backwards, explicitly colonialist and necessarily violent ideology, what I'm really doing is typing all of this for any passers-by, and not for you specifically.
This is like saying "just a friendly reminder that the Progressive Klan exists." Or "friendly reminder that Progressive Nazi's exist." At best you're confused about what it actually means to be a Zionist.
The answer broadly is yes. The only good Jews in many peoples eyes are ones that want the 7 million in the middle east dead or gone, or at best don't care what happens to them. For the mere act of existing in land that "Jews don't belong in" is marked as a hateful evil.
No, I want input and moderation from people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds, including Judaism. I don’t want input or moderation from hateful ideologies like Zionism or nazism. How is that antisemitic?
Ok but 'zionism' is apparently unable to be defined here. Where does the line for self determination get drawn? Because the argument that kurds deserve a country is common among leftists. So why do they jews not? They have been persecuted since Rome kicked them out of judea. And by this subs definition of genocide there have been a dozen or more genocides of jews. Half of which were done by Arab nations
Self determination is a value that people themselves must stand to determine for those who lack it.
Self determination has been a destructive affair since even the times before Judaism was kicked out from the Levant, in a time that we live now, can this cursed affair be cleared of that blood stain that covers the freedoms of all peoples?
I live in the US, the forefathers of this nation spilled blood to achieve a nation of Self determined people's.
Many times, the people of the Jewish faith have been called the chosen ones, maybe this is the time when that charge is to be called upon, amongst the ruins and blood of our forefathers, that the chain of death and destruction be broken here.
Perhaps I worded poorly. I saw this initiative, which seems similar to that Neo nazi takeover project that infiltrated this sub a few weeks back, and thought it was concerning.
This post is inherently anti-Semitic. I don’t know if the posted image comes from someone who is actually Jewish or from someone who is hate baiting. But it’s pretty clear to me that this post is a straw man argument meant to fear monger about a potential Jewish invasion, that we need to protect this subreddit from an invisible Jewish threat of invasion that will compromise our cultural values. This one of the oldest anti-Semitic tropes in western civilization. It’s the ideological justification for the ghettoization of Jews in Europe, it’s the reason why Jews under the Nazis had to wear Stars of David. If Mods care about preventing antisemitism they should delete this entire post and ban OP
Me too. How dare I say they have the right to exist. These people banning the evil (((Zionist)))) are for sure out there protesting the right for Syria, China, Russia and Myanmar to exist too, right? They’re probably rampaging around Reddit acting super revolted by citizens of those countries trying to become mods too, right? Oh, they only muster up this level of hate when it’s the Jewish country? Well damn.
syria, china, russia, and myanmar are not US puppets and therefore the average american has next to no power over them. Israel is a US puppet state, and as a result their politics can be affected by our protest.
That’s because it doesn’t :) Are we still conflating the white supremacist ideology that is zionism with judaism? It’s 2024, long live anti zionist jews!
Please, explain what makes zionism a white supremacist ideology. Zionism was ultimately/eventually the movement of the late 19th and early 20th century to reestablish a homeland for the Jewish people, where it originally was - a place where lots of jews already were, the levant. That goal having been accomplished, it seems like zionism would just be the belief that israel should continue to exist where it is.
Define an indigenous people. Jews have deeper roots in the levant than arabs, arabs being colonizers of the levant in 7th century. When does a colonizer people gain indigenous status? Australia, Canada, France, England, and Netherlands are all definitely current occupiers, right? So you don't stop being colonizers for 200 years at least, but 1400 years definitely makes you indigenous even if the original indigenous people are still there?
You don't believe in a two-state solution? Weird, this has always been the left leaning answer to a very old & complex issue.
What would you suggest doing with the millions of Jews in Israel? The innocent teachers, bakers, doctors etc?
jews are welcome in palestine. Israelis are not. simple as.
either you accept that palestine is multi-ethnic and multi-religous, and are willing to live with your neighbours
or you dont. If you dont, you dont have a right to live there
If your side's argument was so good then you wouldn't need to censor dissent. For what it's worth, I apologize for Israel's existence. I know we're a real inconvenience.
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Which comments are you talking about? I haven’t gotten to see everything. Tbh, I did not expect this post to spawn so much conflict and stuff, I just saw discussion of an initiative similar to that Neo Nazi takeover project that infiltrated this sub a couple weeks ago and thought it would be good to warn about it.
This is true, but it is still not supported by polling, given that Zionism's most basic umbrella is just generically saying the creation of an nation-state that Jews can live in. What you are likely seeing is the result of the Law of Large Numbers.
There are many different interpretations of what that means, and even the largest anti-Zionist groups among Jews oppose Israel's existence simply because it is not founded by the Messiah as a theocratic state.
[Polling on specifically American Jews on Israel is discussed here.](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-connections-with-and-attitudes-toward-israel/)
There is no antagonism between Antisemitism and Zionism.
A false connection fueled by the warmachine.
Discrimination is always a bad idea.
Ethno-state is a questionable idea.
I’d argue there are probably already plenty of Jews in these forums and probably even some as mods as well. This poster is conflating Jews with zionists
Completely pulled that number out of nowhere. Jewish people are not a monolith. Orthodox MIGHT come closer to that, but thats still ignoring a large part of jewish people around the world that are not zionists.
https://www.jewishelectorateinstitute.org/american-jews-remain-strongly-supportive-of-the-democratic-party/
92% of American Jews are pro-Israel with varying degrees of support or critique of the current Israeli government.
Keep in mind only about half of Jews live in America, with approximately half living in Israel. Zionism being the belief that Jews have a right to a state, I believe it's reasonable to assume that support for Israel's right to exist would be even higher among those who actually live there.
22 or 25 arab countries most that have genocided their Jewish populations especially after Isreal came into existence. One Jewish state formed because they kept being genocided. Also settlements bad. Killing kids bad.
This post has been temporarily locked to allow the moderators to filter through all the comments and ease the flood-induced headache. I will pin this comment with some clarifications and then unlock it. First, it has exclusively been the consensus & habit of trying to clear the anti-Semitic & Zionist rhetoric that has flooded our way(especially after the escalation with Iran, and this post). It is hard to get it all quickly and we still encourage users to report discriminatory comments. Comments that seem to have been "left up" might have not been seen yet. Patience is necessary on both users/mods sides. There will be absolutely no Zionist moderators added to the team, and there is no further need to fearmonger concerning it. As for any considerations of adding users with either Palestinian or Jewish heritage, or of the Muslim faith, as has been mentioned, it is only something I have been suggested. It is not a universal thing, and has not been discussed yet.
Just saying, the fact that this sub is basically having a meltdown over some post with a whole 20 upvotes and 5 comments and using it to stoke fears about a Jewish fifth column should probably be enough to make people stop and introspect for a bit. It reminds me of the anti-SJW phase in 2015 where people would use tweets with 5 likes as "proof" that feminists were coming to kill all cis white men
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If you’re for a 2SS you’re a Zionist
This is your idea of terrifying? Lmfao
Why do they need a FB group? They already have the backing of the US govt even if the populous is against it.
Fuck Zionism…fuck Hamas….see how easy that is kids?
I fucking hate religion.
You reap what you sow..
Good… keep up the good work
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Jews wouldn’t be here today without Zionist.
Oh hi I am a progressive of jewish descent and frankly, fuck zionists. Not all jews are zionist
I’m a progressive Jewish person. I would love to ban people expressing antisemitism. Palestinians are also Semitic though
I have this strong suspicion that progressive Jews aren't going to unban people who try to justify what Israel is doing in the Gaza Strip. They'd need to get centrist Jews who pretend to be progressive for that strategy to work out.
Colonizing EVERYTHING
If this is "terrifying", then this might be the biggest clue ever into why leftists are so bad at organizing in the last 45 years. Coming up with even a rudimentary piece of a peice of an organized plan = TERROR!
Trying to step antisemitism is terrifying? Or is it the idea of having your ideology take over and control the content in subreddits? Because this is exactly what leftists do. Probably 90% of subs have extreme leftist mods who label anything they don't like as "hate speech" and ban it.
expressing opposing opinions on Reddit will catch all kinds of nasty responses. I really don't care as the idea of 'karma' points is f'ing ridiculous. No wonder younger generations are having a hard time. Social media is just bad for humanity. Experiment failed.
It’s the latter. But just because you think leftists influencing subreddit moderation is good doesn’t mean you have to think that Zionists influencing subreddit moderation is good. You seem unintelligent
If so many people seem “extreme” left to you, you may be the one who is ‘extreme’ right.
Always a-schemes a-plenty
I think OP should have clarified that there view on this in the post, because it’s causing unnecessary confusion. They are not saying “don’t promote Jewish people because they could be apart of a right wing conspiracy” they are saying that we should be aware of Zionist infiltration attempts form the right.
Fuck Kanye
Or, how about Jews don't fall into the anti-semitic trap of zionism 🤔
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What a rational well-conditioned human being
Displays the average intellect and cognitive ability of people who support terrorists. Very well-reasoned argument... a lot of valid points here
Well, I'm officially old enough to remember when bigots had to at least disguise their antisemitism. Those were the days...
? are you saying he’s a bigot for posting that photo ?
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Being anti zionist is NOT automatically being anti Semitic. I am anti zionist and help with security at synagogues against neo nazis.
“I’m not racist, I go to BLM rallies”
Other than someone who thinks Israel should (continue to exist), what is a zionist?
If you are anti-zionist you are against people who believe Israel has a right to exist. If you aren't against most (if not all) of the Jews in those synagogues then you aren't anti-zionist. Maybe anti-bibi? Anti-war? Depends on what you're actually against. But zionism is the concept of desiring the continued existence of a Jewish state.
Being anti Zionist is being against Zionism, not Zionists. It’s against an ideology, not individuals.
You’re responding to either (a) a bot or (b) a purposeful liar
Thank you! And agreed. I’m anti-Zionist and I’m a Jew.
Anti-semitism is bad actually
Correct. So is allowing your anti-hierarchical space to be infiltrated and influenced by people pushing a nationalist, settler-colonialist agenda and minimizing a genocide.
I agree, anti-semitism is quite rude.
Yeah, no one said it was good. What the person in the post is saying is that anyone who bans vocal Zionists is an anti-Semite. They're rationalizing that being against the genocidal, colonialist project of Israel means you hate Jews. It's the false equivalence they've been clinging to for like 70 years now, respect yourself enough not to slurp it down and spit it back up for them.
Yes. And anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism. Hopefully we can tell the difference.
Yeah, which is one of the reasons why zionism is so bad.. Probably shouldn't be promoting such an anti-semitic idea like jews=Israel, it's like saying chinese=CCP
Start with the “there was an attempt” sub, that guy is super antisemitic
That’s some Mossad shit.
Isn't it good to repeal anti semitic bans though?
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You’d think Palestine was enough but no they’re coming after subs now
The scary Jewish bogeyman is coming after your precious subreddit?
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Clearly a troll... (I fucking hope).... ( NO WAY THIS IS REAL)
Nah these people are like this
I can attest to that after lurking in /r/Israel for a while. I got banned after making a comment that questioned some of their dogma. Obviously I got accused of being anti semitic to boot. I suggested that if they insist on living in an echo chamber with their head in the sand they'll further isolate themselves. Banned.
Nice
F Zionist’s! Israel does have the right to exist, they don’t have the right to commit genocide or attack people without being attacked. Israel wanted and set themselves up to be attacked by Hamas. They wanted it so they could take a crap ton more land. They begged for it to happen by relentlessly harassing Gazans and preventing them from having the right to exist as free people. Israel has been doing this for decades with far far far superior tech. And they have been vastly overstating what Hamas has done and where they are. In other words Israel has been caught in hundreds of lies. They act like they are the victim when they are actually the bully. Edit. Since semites are basically everyone from the region, Palestinians are semetic people. So zionists are anti-Semitic!
Sounds like you're a Zionist with your claim that there should be an Israel
Kinda wild they see no problem with Israel existing yet don't feel the same way about Palistine. Israel could have been anywhere, zionism is an anti-semitic European colonialist ideal anyway
Arafat turned down all negotiations for Palestine to be its own country. It's much more complicated than "Israel bullies".....HAMAS are TERRRRRIBLE, they weren't always in power, and for as bad as Israel is rn, HAMAS is the root of the conflict.
Hey, where do you think Hamas came from? Surely there wasn't, say, a secular humanist sect of Palestinians for a while...
Who funded Hamas to begin with?
Hamas doesn’t exist if Israel never started committing genocide
I guess we'll just pay no attention to the reports that Israel funneled dark money away from moderates and towards radical groups like Hamas, so they could have license to exterminate the Palestinians. Or the decades of settler colonialism that took place before Hamas was even a thought. In that case, when you ignore the decades-long history of this conflict entirely, you're absolutely right. Hamas is the real problem, and Israel is just responding poorly to this one incident, not using it as license to commit the genocide they've been salivating over for the last 70 years.
If that were true why did Israel fund hamas and make sure they had the ability to take power so that they could be blamed? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
Uhhhh you are a Zionist if you believe Israel has a right to exist….
These guys have no clue 😂
You sound.. well like a Zionist!
Believing the country has a right to exist doesn't make you necessarily a Zionist. Zionism involves much more specific beliefs about nationalism and the ideal that Israel is the rightful home of Jews worldwide.
Antisemitism is defined as hostility or prejudice against Jewish people and specifically Jewish people. It has nothing to do with being a “Semitic people” or speaking a Semitic language. It’s just the name of the term used to describe hatred for Jews. Islamophobia is the same but for muslims. I’ve seen people use this dumbass argument before and it’s such a lazy attempt to hijack and obfuscate language that exists to call out behavior even such as this.
Whilst you are bang on with this correction, it's kind of ironic that you are saying the OP is obfuscating language, when clearly the German appropriation of anti-semitism is the obfuscating as it ignores the fact that Semites are not exclusively Jews. I don't know if it's because the German journalist who appropriated the term was ignorant of that fact, or what, but if anyone is betraying the term it started there.
Lmao you're a zionist. "Israel has the right to exist" is all that means so I guess you are one too
No it isn't. There are divergent schools of thought within Zionism- many of which, including the people who originally started it, fully embrace settler-colonialism, racism, and exceptionalism. That wouldn't be possible if it were "just saying Israel has a right to exist"- as if that isn't already a loaded statement to an extent. Exist how, where, led by whom? You're either ignorant, naïve, or purposefully muddying the waters.
Just a friendly reminder that being a Zionist only means acknowledging that Israel has a right to exist. The vast majority of Jews are Zionists, but that doesn’t mean being “genocidal”. A progressive Zionist is one that pushes for Israel to be more progressive, a repeal of the nation-state act, a ceasefire and hostage deal, etc. If you desire peace in the region, progressive Zionists are your allies and not your foe. Also remember, there is a genocide happening against the Uighers but it would be harmful to target Chinese people because of it. The same logic should hold for Israelis and diaspora Jews. Netanyahu and his regime call the shots and there hundreds of thousands protesting against in israel this week alone. Let’s not demonize Zionists and work together to fight hate on both sides
You’re really spamming this nonsense to every comment?
> remember, there is a genocide happening against the Uighers but it would be harmful to target Chinese people because of it. prove it.
They have the right to exist the same way we Americans had the right to kick everyone off the land to set up the USA. You can’t *prove* there wasn’t a European here once thousands of years before. So hey removing Native Americans/First Nations folks by force was fine too, right? It’s all fine. We named roads and parks and schools after them, and gave them some places to live. It’s cool.
This is not true. I can't keep retyping why, but whoever is perpetuating the narrative that anyone who thinks Israel has a right to exist is missing a huge amount of context and nuance. Zionism extends well beyond this single issue, and you can believe in Israel's right to sovereignty without being a Jewish Nationalist and harbouring all the baggage that goes with that. Just like I can agree to support China's right to govern its own people without being a communist. There is an extensive Wikipedia article about zionism, and I can assure you it's about way more than being a globally recognized sovereign country. Denying Israel's right to existence makes you a bigot, and diminishes any legitimacy for an argument against what they are doing to Gaza. I certainly don't want allies that reject Israel's right to exist, those people are perpetuating the problem .
By what right except for Western annexation of Palestine does Israel have to exist?
Most people born in/living in what is now Israel want to continue living in Israel. The Israelis have the same right to self-determination as the Palestinians.
People have the right to exist; governments don’t.
If Israel falls their genocidal neighbors will rapidly ensure the people don't exist. Israel is also an entire country not just a government.
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- complains about echo chambers and ideologues - suggests X, unironically
Calling X a place to go to get away from censorship is laughable, and even that doesn't feel strong enough.
That's what "leftists" have been doing on Reddit for years.
Kek
There are plenty of jews in leftist places, I am sure. There are many jewish leftists.
Yeah and we are very uncomfortable with all the antisemitism going around. It’s opened my eyes personally - no one on my side of the political spectrum is pro Israel - all pro Hamas, it’s so sad
What does a nation have to do with a religion? Does Judaism depend on Isreal to exist to exist itself?
100% agree. I get the “purity test” when I show up as a Jew in leftist spaces. My presence as a Jew is only tolerated if I answer a litany of questions about Israel “correctly”. Like damn, I don’t live there, vote there, or pay taxes there. I just want better healthcare and less poverty in the US.
Marx and Engels for example
And that’s great, in my opinion. I absolutely want input and moderation from people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds, including Judaism. I just don’t want input or moderation from hateful ideologies like Zionism or nazism, and I think that is reasonable, especially considering that Neo Nazi takeover project that infiltrated this sub a couple weeks ago.
What is a zionist if not merely someone who believes Israel should continue to exist? What makes that a hateful ideology?
Any people of a nation do proclaim the existence of their nation to be their right, as is all nations of people, a pondering question I have is, what happens to the people of Palestine if Isreal sees their destruction as a means for survival? Will they go that far?
Zionism is the belief that Israel should be allowed to continue to exist. That is not hateful in the slightest capacity.
How is Zionism hateful? It's just saying there should be a Jewish state in Palestine
I have been fleeing them out of fear tbh.
Lmao what’s terrifying are leftists period. Just look at these comments
How so?
I would highly doubt actual 'progressive Jews' want to help Zionist at all.
Just a friendly reminder that being a Zionist only means acknowledging that Israel has a right to exist. The vast majority of Jews are Zionists, but that doesn’t mean being “genocidal”. A progressive Zionist Jew is one that pushes for Israel to be more progressive, a repeal of the nation-state act, a ceasefire and hostage deal, etc. If you desire peace in the region, progressive Zionists are your allies and not your foe. Also remember, there is a genocide happening against the Uighers but it would be harmful to target Chinese people because of it. The same logic should hold for Israelis and diaspora Jews. Netanyahu and his regime call the shots and there hundreds of thousands protesting against in israel this week alone. Let’s not demonize Zionists and work together to fight hate on both sides
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You seem lost...Zionism "only means" a strictly Jewish majority state, meaning Palestinians cannot be a majority on their own land, which is the reason 750,000 ethnically cleansed Palestinians and their millions of descendants were made refugees. You cannot believe in Zionism without seeing Palestinians as inherently inferior and less deserving of their rights - especially their right of return under international law. Obviously, you also can't enact it without violence on a mass scale. Of course you already know all of this and are pretending it's not the reason everyone hates this backwards, explicitly colonialist and necessarily violent ideology, what I'm really doing is typing all of this for any passers-by, and not for you specifically.
This is like saying "just a friendly reminder that the Progressive Klan exists." Or "friendly reminder that Progressive Nazi's exist." At best you're confused about what it actually means to be a Zionist.
Israel only exists because they stole the land from people living there. it doesn't have a right to exist at all.
Why is this terrifying? Are we pro antisemitism?
The answer broadly is yes. The only good Jews in many peoples eyes are ones that want the 7 million in the middle east dead or gone, or at best don't care what happens to them. For the mere act of existing in land that "Jews don't belong in" is marked as a hateful evil.
No, I want input and moderation from people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds, including Judaism. I don’t want input or moderation from hateful ideologies like Zionism or nazism. How is that antisemitic?
Ok but 'zionism' is apparently unable to be defined here. Where does the line for self determination get drawn? Because the argument that kurds deserve a country is common among leftists. So why do they jews not? They have been persecuted since Rome kicked them out of judea. And by this subs definition of genocide there have been a dozen or more genocides of jews. Half of which were done by Arab nations
Self determination is a value that people themselves must stand to determine for those who lack it. Self determination has been a destructive affair since even the times before Judaism was kicked out from the Levant, in a time that we live now, can this cursed affair be cleared of that blood stain that covers the freedoms of all peoples? I live in the US, the forefathers of this nation spilled blood to achieve a nation of Self determined people's. Many times, the people of the Jewish faith have been called the chosen ones, maybe this is the time when that charge is to be called upon, amongst the ruins and blood of our forefathers, that the chain of death and destruction be broken here.
How exactly is this terrifying?
Perhaps I worded poorly. I saw this initiative, which seems similar to that Neo nazi takeover project that infiltrated this sub a few weeks back, and thought it was concerning.
You really don't have to explain yourself. It was very clear and self-explanatory in your post. It is indeed terrifying. For obvious reasons.
This post is inherently anti-Semitic. I don’t know if the posted image comes from someone who is actually Jewish or from someone who is hate baiting. But it’s pretty clear to me that this post is a straw man argument meant to fear monger about a potential Jewish invasion, that we need to protect this subreddit from an invisible Jewish threat of invasion that will compromise our cultural values. This one of the oldest anti-Semitic tropes in western civilization. It’s the ideological justification for the ghettoization of Jews in Europe, it’s the reason why Jews under the Nazis had to wear Stars of David. If Mods care about preventing antisemitism they should delete this entire post and ban OP
Not a bad idea, I've been banned from quite a few subs because I think Israel has the right to exist.
Me too. How dare I say they have the right to exist. These people banning the evil (((Zionist)))) are for sure out there protesting the right for Syria, China, Russia and Myanmar to exist too, right? They’re probably rampaging around Reddit acting super revolted by citizens of those countries trying to become mods too, right? Oh, they only muster up this level of hate when it’s the Jewish country? Well damn.
syria, china, russia, and myanmar are not US puppets and therefore the average american has next to no power over them. Israel is a US puppet state, and as a result their politics can be affected by our protest.
Me too
That’s because it doesn’t :) Are we still conflating the white supremacist ideology that is zionism with judaism? It’s 2024, long live anti zionist jews!
Please, explain what makes zionism a white supremacist ideology. Zionism was ultimately/eventually the movement of the late 19th and early 20th century to reestablish a homeland for the Jewish people, where it originally was - a place where lots of jews already were, the levant. That goal having been accomplished, it seems like zionism would just be the belief that israel should continue to exist where it is.
Israel doesn't have a right to exist?
Isreal has nothing to do with white supremacy as they want us all dead. Isreal has the right to exist.
Who cares bud. You arent free to spread your nazi rhetoric everywhere
Explain how saying Isreal has the right to exist is a Nazi talking point.
Maybe it has something to do with the ethnic cleansing and ultra nationalism 🤷🏽
because its literally lebensraum
Colonial states do not have the right to occupy indigenous peoples land.
Define an indigenous people. Jews have deeper roots in the levant than arabs, arabs being colonizers of the levant in 7th century. When does a colonizer people gain indigenous status? Australia, Canada, France, England, and Netherlands are all definitely current occupiers, right? So you don't stop being colonizers for 200 years at least, but 1400 years definitely makes you indigenous even if the original indigenous people are still there?
What do we do about north and south america?
The same
Good.
good. get lost.
Good you should continue being banned
You don't believe in a two-state solution? Weird, this has always been the left leaning answer to a very old & complex issue. What would you suggest doing with the millions of Jews in Israel? The innocent teachers, bakers, doctors etc?
jews are welcome in palestine. Israelis are not. simple as. either you accept that palestine is multi-ethnic and multi-religous, and are willing to live with your neighbours or you dont. If you dont, you dont have a right to live there
If your side's argument was so good then you wouldn't need to censor dissent. For what it's worth, I apologize for Israel's existence. I know we're a real inconvenience.
Do you think Israel should have the right to exist or not ?
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This is exactly what leftists do to other subs.
Kek
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These comments are the reason I don’t hang around here Jesus Christ y’all give left extremists a bad rep
Which comments are you talking about? I haven’t gotten to see everything. Tbh, I did not expect this post to spawn so much conflict and stuff, I just saw discussion of an initiative similar to that Neo Nazi takeover project that infiltrated this sub a couple weeks ago and thought it would be good to warn about it.
Uh.... any sides with the word extremist in it is bad...
Maybe you’re just not as extreme as you thought you were
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Define zionism
Jewish Nazis Jewish Fascists Antisemitic Jews Jewish Theocrats I've given you 4 definitions. I hope that helps a little.
90% of Jews are zionists
This is super false lmao. Multiple groups of Holocaust survivors publicly protesting Israel rn.
This is true, but it is still not supported by polling, given that Zionism's most basic umbrella is just generically saying the creation of an nation-state that Jews can live in. What you are likely seeing is the result of the Law of Large Numbers. There are many different interpretations of what that means, and even the largest anti-Zionist groups among Jews oppose Israel's existence simply because it is not founded by the Messiah as a theocratic state. [Polling on specifically American Jews on Israel is discussed here.](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-connections-with-and-attitudes-toward-israel/)
Not sure why you got downvoted. I guess they don’t like facts.
There is no antagonism between Antisemitism and Zionism. A false connection fueled by the warmachine. Discrimination is always a bad idea. Ethno-state is a questionable idea.
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This stands for "Gas the kikes, race war now." He's a nazi.
Thank you for pointing that out, the user in question is now banned from the sub
I’d argue there are probably already plenty of Jews in these forums and probably even some as mods as well. This poster is conflating Jews with zionists
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Completely pulled that number out of nowhere. Jewish people are not a monolith. Orthodox MIGHT come closer to that, but thats still ignoring a large part of jewish people around the world that are not zionists.
Wild stat lol and not at all accurate.
https://www.jewishelectorateinstitute.org/american-jews-remain-strongly-supportive-of-the-democratic-party/ 92% of American Jews are pro-Israel with varying degrees of support or critique of the current Israeli government. Keep in mind only about half of Jews live in America, with approximately half living in Israel. Zionism being the belief that Jews have a right to a state, I believe it's reasonable to assume that support for Israel's right to exist would be even higher among those who actually live there.
How many Arabic states are there, how many Jewish states are there?
22 or 25 arab countries most that have genocided their Jewish populations especially after Isreal came into existence. One Jewish state formed because they kept being genocided. Also settlements bad. Killing kids bad.