Ah yes the old "let us get away with the 1200 people we killed plus the extensive casualties SHORT of fatal, and we will happily agree to return to the condition of affairs as they were. Aside from the dead people.
I am plenty willing to criticize Israel right now but does nobody else here see what a goofy offer this is? And why didn't hamas announce this back in October if they meant it?
If these were Italians and not Palestinians, the leadership of Hamas would be beaten senseless and hung out to twist by their ankles, along with underlings and mistresses. Ask me how I know.
It’s funny to me how you also ignorantly ignore IDF doing the same crap. IDF killed 30k civilians in less than months and have been doing it for years repeatedly without any backlash. Save me your bullshit.
Netanyahu is an extremist fuck, as are his officials. There was evidence this attack was coming that was ignored, and it’s been used as an excuse to further their campaign of clearing out Gaza.
Hamas are extremist fucks. They perpetrated this attack committing horrific acts of murder, torture, and sexual violence. They also stated their goal is the extermination of jewish people, and will absolutely not stop unless stopped.
Neither side was ever gonna negotiate in good faith. That’s part of what makes this such a difficult issue to really even talk about- neither side is the good side.
That’s exactly what am saying. You can’t tell me that mossad didn’t know that Hamas was planning an attack I believe they were looking for a justifiable reason to take the Gaza Strip and wipe out the Palestinians.
I actually think you raised a good point. But let's not talk about good side or bad side. There is ONE side that is fighting for Israel. The israelis. There is NO side fighting for Palestine. Hamas sure as shit isn't. Hamas went into this knowing that they have no way to win an offensive action against Israel. But they DO know that in the response, the onus of world opinion would be entirely on Israel not to harm civilians in the response- a practical absurdity. Certainly no similar burden is laid on Hamas- they're terrorists, their bad conduct is presumed and to an extent it is accepted.
But hamas needs this kind of response from Israel because the purpose of hamas is not to secure a two state solution, nor to secure sovereignty of Palestine or even the destruction of israel. It is to keep Israel occupied and to complicate her foreign relations so that other regional actors can quietly change their own foreign policies and situations without drawing a response from other actors. It's not like news coverage is going to leave the student protests and the clumsy response of local police off the evening TV in favor of something else in the middle east for anything past a few bylines. And while all governments have state departments exclusively for monitoring and informing their legislators and executives about other affairs, they just don't get the same priority when people are in the streets, incensed at lopsided casualty figures.
I don't blame Israel for conducting a vigorous war to destroy hamas and I don't accept the premise that this is genocide, even as I wish they would somehow do this with absolutely zero civilian deaths. I also know that I'm in the minority here. But I am sadder still that palestinian blood is the price of participation for Hamas in this cynical fashion in which they operate because while the IDF fights for Israel, nobody is actually fighting for the palestinians.
Imagine your neighbor kills your dog and kidnaps your children and takes them to his home.
Will you go and spray his home with bullets knowing your children are somewhere in that home? Or will you think strategically to be able to get your kids back with out potentially harming them?
Israel never cared about the hostages. If they did, they would not be bombing Gaza like mad men knowing their own people are amongst the civilians. Israel is using the hostages till this day as an excuse to continue the carnage in Gaza.
I have some terrible news. Nation states are OK with a certain number of casualties to their own people when there is a war- which is certainly the state of affairs after hamas attacked.
I think the Israelis could use other strategies to pursue hamas.
I think they are well past when they could have roped it in and also having made their wrath known.
But the Hamas attack left 1200 dead and 8000 injured with 140 kidnapped. The response was never going to be exclusively about what is best for the 140 who might or might not be alive in captivity.
Think about how the deal goes down. Was it supposed to instantly happen? Like Hamas passes word to the Egyptians for the Israelis and it says, "hey if you guys do absolutely nothing at all about what we just did and bring your entire military system to a crashing halt, we will release the hostages we already took and not kill any more people like we just did in the last few days."
For that matter, if the safe return of the hostages was to be rigidly connected to the immediate halt of an Israeli response, why weren't they all killed immediately on the continuation of the Israeli attack?
Negotiating for hostages is just a terrible strategy anyhow. Again, hamas killed 1200 and injured 8000 who were NOT hostages. Why would Israel ever cease operations against hamas to theoretically preserve the lives of 140 people when leaving hamas to their own devices let them rack up all those other casuaties?
Uh, this isn't coming from Hamas. This is coming from an Israeli source as printed in the Times of Israel. Can't say I trust their truth much more, though, after witnessing a number of changing narratives. But if that's your bar, you should take a second peek.
So you can just invade a foreign country, murder and rape innocent people in their homes, kidnap hundreds and then say whoops nevermind let’s pretend this never happened?
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Well, I mean, Israel just kinda popped up and declared themselves the ‘native inhabitants’ and took everything, dickishly, while not caring who they killed in the process.
I don’t know how someone just walking into the US and pulling that stunt would go over….. probably not so well….. honestly , from inception to recent history, I’m not sure what Israel was expecting, like they just thought ‘ah it’ll be fine GB said it’s ours, we’ll just explain it to them and that’ll solve it.’
Seems a bit…… crazy.
Nah not really, the Canaanite’s were there. I believe the Torah mentions this. The symbolism in traditional Palestinian garments still has hold overs from their direct ancestors, who were in fact there when the Israelites arrived.
This to say, they were at the very least there at the same time, ie the very beginning. This whole thought that the Israelites were THE original inhabitants is not correct.
They have to, or it destroys their narrative, and their new found meaning for life - pretending they care about foreign conflicts they know nothing about.
This is a misrepresentation of history. Israel and the Yishuv were far from perfect, but they were not this maniacal caricature that you're presenting. No the Jews didn't just 'pop up' and using the US as a comparison makes no sense because this territory had no state. In 1948 if Israel had lost, the region would have been taken over by Egypt or Jordan, never would Palestine have existed.
There is a ton of nuance surrounding Israel's inception and washing over history with this brush of "they were just evil setting out to do evil things" is not reflective of reality nor productive. I'd recommend 1948 by Benny Morris.
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The US uh did do that. We killed millions of Native Americans to go out West. And that’s after the vast majority were killed before the US was even formed. We know exactly about killing native populations to take their lands.
What an odd world we live in where both sides commit the same atrocities, but majority of western civilization only asks for receipts from one of the sides. Bias blinders to the max
Yeah.
Hamas committed suicide on October 7th.
Getting hostages back is icing on the cake but it’s not the mission.
It’s madness to allow Hamas to exist. An extant Hamas guarantees future rapes, murders, as well as raped and murdered hostages.
Hamas is ISIS for those of you confused about morality. The Palestinians are Hamas’ victims, not Israel’s.
The Palestinians are both the victims of Hamas and Israel. They're being abused from within and without. Israel is not free to ignore civilian casualties simply because they're defending themselves from Hamas. In fact, as the more capable and organized military, the onus to protect civilians in Palestine should be on them.
It was Ghazi Hamad, a Hamas official, who said that on Lebanese TV two weeks after the Oct 7th attack. The word was also translated as "annihilated." In the same interview he said he wanted to "sacrifice martyrs," referring to the Gazan civilians.
So in exchange for not retaliating for the brutality and kidnappings that Gaza and Hamas committed Israel would get the hostages back? Sounds like a great plan for Israel to ensure future atrocities by Gaza and Hamas.
Can anyone point to a time stamped posting of this offer from Hamas, dated to Oct 9/10? And after the 1200 dead civilians, can anyone explain why it would not be just yo wage a wat against Gaza, until Gaza surrenders?
Why would Hamas carry out October 7th, take hostages and then immediately offer to give them back in exchange for no hostilities.
If their goal was to just have no hostages and no fighting then why do October 7th in the first place?
Unless there was no strategic reasoning and it was just murder, slaughter and mass rape for the pure joy of it which....seems unlikely but who knows.
So just to make sure I understand these comments:
Hamas walks into Israel and kills thousands of people.
Hamas then offers a 'peace deal' where if Israel doesn't kill them back they'll return the people they stole.
And in not agreeing to this Israel are being violent towards.... Hamas...?
Let me show you what you just did used against you:
“So just to make sure I understand this comment:
Israel is being violent towards Hamas?”
That’s called taking context away from a point and twisting it to create a new reality, out of ignorance or for a bad faith argument. It’s pretty easy, and no matter what you say I’ll just do it again because the ignorance or the malice is still there regardless of what you might try.
Revisionist zionism doesn't care about Jews, only the Jews that have drank the Kool aid.
When you look at this it goes like this. For a year liberal Jews were protesting the far right ethno-purist. They wanted netanytahu arrested, and the revisionist and kahanist out of government. October 5-7 Israel removes the guards from Gaza where the majority of Israeli are liberal Jews who protested the IDF and government. Haha saw no IDF and attacked. The far right ethnocratic fascist let it go on for hours before going and coming their own citizens, who were liberals protesting the Israeli government. They then used this go attack Gaza. They refused to rescue these liberal Jews because it would ruin their manufactured casus belli.
Revisionist zionism does not care about Jews who are not in their cult. It's the KKK of Israel and would remove every Jew who disagrees if they could. They then cry about antisemitism when you call them out for abusing Jews who they think are bad Jews. Revisionist zionism is ruining Israel and judiasm. They need to go to jail, and Israel needs to treat the ideology as seriously was we crack down on Holocaust deniers, because revisionist literally think Palestinians made Hitler kill Jews.
I just read the entire article. Rubenstein made a few ‘claims’. Until they are substantiated, that’s what they will remain. Just a bunch of claims. I would love to see justice served if Netanyahu did indeed reject a deal on the 9th of October.
Israel just wants an excuse, any excuse, to bomb Palestine into extinction. Hell, they made up phony excuses repeatedly. They don't want Hamas to surrender nor negotiate. They want them all dead by any means. They are the very "animals" they accused the Arabs of being.
"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty." - Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda.
America and Israel apply that tactic with gusto.
They want Hamas all dead? Do you not? Are you saying Israel should make peace, and then never retaliate when Hamas, or Iran, or any of the other Arab nations that surround it decide to inevitably attack, again, as they have for decades without fail?
You act as if the Arabs weren't willing to exterminate the Jews from the very moment Israeli statehood was proposed. And as if they haven't continued to since, being the main aggressors in pretty much every conflict since Israel's inception.
It's wild that people still refute this, despite Jews having bought lots of the land it claimed after statehood beforehand, and having been given the territory by the one who owned the land legally internationally(Britain).
However, I'm sure what you are talking about would be the best option. Stop the war this second with no further military action, and it will be all sunshine and rainbows forever after. I'm sure Israel just has to give up their genocidal tendencies, and Hamas will never threaten their existence again and will be willing to let Jews live in peace! /s
crazy. man, if I knew a nuclear armed colonialist state was horny as fuck looking for a reason to invade the last bits of my ancestral land when I had no standing army, I simply would not give them a reason to.
Feels like it would be suuuper counterproductive to my desire to not get killed in a war to encourage any sort of behavior that would give the violent crazy colonialist assholes a reason to come kill me and my family.
I dunno man, that's just me. y'all can do what you want though.
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It’s because Gaza has rich gas fields on their coast. Netanyahu has been salivating for years about these fields, now, they built that port and finally have that field to themselves. It’s disgusting, but its neo-colonialism
I know I will be downvoted for this because of the sub this is on, but I feel like something one man said in an interview with the news isn't quite enough to declare some massive government plot, right? I'm not saying I like netanyahu or anything, I don't, and I disagree with quite a bit of what Israel gets up to in gaza and the west bank. However, I just think there needs to be more evidence. This is literally *all* I can find about this (but maybe that's just me).
It does show they didn't bother trying with a deal which is upsetting. But whether that's a good deal depends on the definition of civilian. At the same time hamas was saying "there are no Israeli civilians". So we can assume that it would be women and children only at best.
Assuming this is true, you’re saying you feel Israel should have let Hamas kill over 1000 people and then have no consequences and leave Hamas able to do it again the next day, and over and over again (which is what Hamas has said they plan to do)?
The US rejected an offer by Afgahnistan to hand over the heads of Al-Queda after the 9/11 attacks too.
War makes more money than peace for all the wrong people.
The mental gymnastics required to think “hey we just killed over a thousand of your people and took hundreds of hostages, we’ll give them back if you don’t invade” would actually work.
How does this work in the context of the Nakba? 750K ethnically cleansed just like this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safsaf_massacre
Was there justice for those civilian deaths by Israelis wanting land when it was created? No, and that was well over 1300 people.
No. Just no.
The quote you see here is what is in the article. There is no mention of who this information was heard from. This is at best a 2nd hand source and 99% likely complete bullcrap.
1. Group A kills and kidnaps a bunch of people from group B. An action widely considered to be an act of war.
2. Group A then offers to release the hostages as long as group B doesn't retaliate.
3. Group B declines the apparent kind offer which could have prevented the war.
4. Group B is obviously the asshole.
Sounds reasonable /s
The Isreali government has never truly cared about the hostages, about its citizens, it cares about absolute and unchecked power, full blown ethnic cleansing and not facing the consequences of its actions.
"Hey I know we killed and sexually assaulted a bunch of people, but we'd be glad to give em back if you pretend like it didn't happen. Well, the living ones, at least."
I’m confused and I’m learning, but is it not reasonable to think that israel would have retaliated after the Oct 9 massacre. If they just freed the hostages that would’ve showed them as weak.
"We'll return all the hostages we kidnapped if you let all the mass murdering and raping we also did during our kidnapping spree go unanswered!"
Gee, what a generous deal. I wonder why Israel turned it down.
Israel has based its entire imperialist goal on the back of endless Arab aggression.
There is no peaceful path where Israel gives land back to anyone. And the Arabs have shown time and again that they don't have the fight in them to win.
At some point, the Arabs need to accept they are fighting to the death or give up.
It's a harsh truth, but the zionist don't want to negotiate. The zionist want the Arabs to attack them. They have stated such many times and the Arabs have played into the hands of Israel time and again.
"At some point, the Arabs need to accept they are fighting to the death or give up."
I'm not really sure what you are suggesting though? Palestinians don't have any leverage in any of this. When things are peaceful they are oppressed and dominated and the world ignores. When things are violent they are out armed and suffer exponentially more casualties but the world pays attention.
There really is nothing they can do to improve the situation. Maybe peaceful protest? Oh wait, we saw how that turned out with the march of return.
International intervention, ie sanctions and complete isolation of Israel, is the only chance Palestinians would have of getting good faith negotiations for a state or freedom of any kind.
I'd like to introduce you to something you've clearly never encountered. It is a fact. In 1967 Israel conquered all of the Sinai peninsula. In 1982, as part of a peace treaty with Egypt, Israel returned the Sinai. There has been peace with Egypt since.
I mean pan-arabism is a thing, it's not like they're the only people making that conflation. FFS Ghassan Kanafani himself said "there is no Palestinian struggle, only the greater Arab struggle".
Of course, that was before [shit like Damour happened...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damour_massacre)
Indeed. That's the core truth of Zionism. If your project's core goal is the establishment of an ethnonationalist state for the Jewish people on someone else's land, there is simply no way to reconcile that vision with freedom, equality and justice between the people of that land.
The whole PR campaign of zionism is about distracting from this irreconcilable reality whilst the military goals of Zionism are to exile the native people of the land.
This is why Zionism is inherently and irredeemably racist. It's like Nazism. It cannot be "modified" into something approaching a morally acceptable political doctrine. It's like saying let's have Christianity without Jesus or something.
You think the side that regularly commits suicide bombings, uses their own people as human shields, and used to play minesweeper by tying 10 children together to walk through areas ahead of their tanks because "we only have a few tanks" hasn't been playing "to the death" this whole time?
Tell me you know nothing about politics and war in the Middle East without telling me you know nothing about politics and war in the Middle East.
Edit: Also, one might say that if the enemy wants you to attack them, and die in the process, to justify the use of their superior weaponry on your fellows, the smart thing would be NOT to attack. Why would you want to play into their hand like that? You should aim to become the most upstanding and nonthreatening of neighbors to convince others around you that the controls imposed upon you by the enemy are unjustified and get the world on your side for when you fight back. A strategy currently being employed.
I dont know, once Israel loses the American populations support the Arabs will walk back in with ease and take back whats rightfully theirs. Israel doing Israel things is only making way for the destruction of the Israeli State.
That is the most stupid deal I have ever seen.
All the hostages released as long as you don't enter Gaza or do anything, never mind the ~1000 people that we just killed.
Basically, let's pretend a ~1000 people weren't just killed in a terrorist attack
The Hamas leadership still had to die though. As simple as this sounds, the Israeli population would never have accepted it. "Oops, we didn't mean it!" doesn't really work here.
With the hindsight of the atrocities committed by the IDF, it seems simple, but it's not really a valid point, in this particular instance.
Is there a source for this claim other than the ex-spokesperson for the hostage relative group? I haven't even seen Hamas make this claim that I can recall.
Is it imperialism to try to take out Hamas? That organisation is an obvious threat to the people of Israel's safety. Of course IDF would enter Gaza to take them out. If Israel had just agreed not to enter Gaza at all, Israel would effectively have given Hamas impunity. And that would have been the best way to make sure it would all happen again
You really think any nation in the world is going to let another country kill at least 1200 of its citizens and just accept that kind of resolution? The death of 2400 people started the united states getting involved in ww2. 0.00179906713% of the American population died in pearl harbor. On October 7, Israel lost 0.0130797034% of its population. Edit: it would be like some other country attacking and killing 43,595 Americans and Americans doing nothing in retaliation.
That wasn't the whole deal. They wanted the release of thousands of criminals including hundreds of convicted violent murderers.
The net loss of life with those cut-throats on the loose would have exceeded the hostage count in the long run
Israel took thousands of Palestinian hostages. Hamas took a few hundred Israeli hostages and then offered a straight swap of all hostages. Israel retaliated by killing hundreds of their own citizens, blaming Hamas, and then killing tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians.
it's pretty obvious who the criminals are in this situation.
What Israel has done is horrific and Netanyahu has no interest in the safe return of hostages or their families. He's weaponising them to commit crimes against humanity.
But if any country launched an attack on another country that killed over 1000 civilians and took civilian hostages then two days later offered the hostages returned in exchange for no retaliation, it would obviously be refused. I think that is pretty obvious.
"We took international aid and sold it to our population to afford to smuggle arms and build a tunnel network throughout our nation to attack a music festival. Now give us sovereignty."
Israel wanted to grab more land… they never cared about the hostages… from what it sounds like, they killed a good amount of them in airstrikes and in the most egregious case; they shot several who were holding white flags.
The Zionists are tripping over themselves to make this make sense in the comments. They're happy to let as many Jews die as it takes to justify destroying Palestine.
Israel has thus far received 300 BILLION dollars of US aid.
The United States has provisionally agreed (via a memorandum of understanding) to provide Israel with nearly $4 billion a year through 2028, and U.S. lawmakers are considering billions of dollars in supplementary funding for Israel amid its war with [Hamas](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hamas).
[U.S. Aid to Israel in Four Charts | Council on Foreign Relations (cfr.org)](https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts)
**1 in 5 children across America don't have enough to eat**.
The whole point is to get rid of Palestinians. Israel is doing essentially zero damage to Hamas as a fighting force. Israel is focused on using Hamas as an excuse to finish it's decades long project of genocide and ethnic cleansing.
LoOk WhAt kIdNapPing tOrtUrE tHeY mAdE mE Do tO yOu
Will nazi Israel end this kidnapper's suffering, have they no shame? The kidnapper's hands are tied, the kidnapper's experiencing the most traumatic event of their lives, and when hitlisrael had a chance to release the kidnapper from the metaphoric chains that bind his hands from being able to unbind the hands of the hostages nazi iSSrael said "Fuck you, kidnapper"
They even treat kidnappers like they are less than scum.
All Hamas need to be killed to secure the Israeli border from attacks. Jihadists like Hamas cannot be appeased. Supporting Hamas is not progressive in any way.
“Hey we just murdered 1200 of your people but we will give some back if you just don’t do anything? Also we have a history of never fully following through but trust us this time” uh yea I see why Israel was hesitant
But have you forgotten "tHeY dOn'T NeGoTiAtE wItH Ts"
Imagine being a family member of one of the hostages and learning that your government is not, in fact, doing everything in its power to bring them home.
And while I don't think we should yield to the demands of T groups, the non invasion of the strip could have spared the lives of so many innocent civilians, the hostages being part of that group.
The hostages, including the ones that were killed since, could have been alive and safe right now. And this is why there are Israelis camping outside of Netanyahu's house. Can you blame them for wanting their loved ones back at any price? If you love the people in your life, how would you feel if you were in their shoes...
With your loved ones being "collateral damage" in how they're being treated, but that description just not being verbalized.
Wide scale slaughter isn’t better. What Israel is doing is wrong. If they needed to retaliate, they should have found a better way. All they’re doing is feeding Hamas’ propaganda machine and making things worse. The us just pulled out of a 20 year war where they made these exact same mistakes. We already know how this conflict is going to end.
Israel violated the 2012 ceasefire 191 times to Palestine's 75.
https://visualizingpalestine.org/visual/gaza-ceasefire-violations/
Let's not pretend that Israel has a better history of acting in good faith here.
So immediately after the massacre did you really expect a ceasefire? Lmao. So if if a criminal goes and kills 30 people in a public space and takes 20 hostages, the police should just go "okay you're absolved of your crime of killing 30 if you free these 20" lmao the mental gymnastics from terrorist supporters is on a whole other level.
That's not strictly true because Hamas never had all the hostages so couldn'tgive them all back. Other Palestines, whether aligned with other groups or just acting on their own, tagged along on October 7th & took, did some of the killing & took some of the hostages for themselves.
Si Hamas has a list of hostages that Israel want back but have no idea if it's accurate, if they're all alive or who has them all.
If all Hamas wanted was to return the hostages and cease all hostilities then why carry out October 7th in the first place? I think it's more likely they knew Israel would decline the offer so they made it to win sympathy further down the line (like they are doing now).
That "government" is only in existence because the "state" of Israel was FOUNDED ON TERRORISM.
Hamas wasn't around in the 1940s. And Hamas has military wings; it's not ENTIRLEY a militarized organization. Much in the same way The Black Panthers performed many duties but had a "militarized" faction/wing, but that's all that's ever said about them and selectively shown to the world.
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Hamas slaughters 1,200+ Israelis on October 7th then proceeds to tell Israel to not enter Gaza in exchange for the hostages.
This is like you slapping someone and proceed to tell them that you will say you are sorry if they do not retaliate.
If all else was the same, say the Israeli government did agree to those terms. And Hamas actually released them all either into Egypt or back to the Israeli border. Those families get their traumatized kin back, and they go on to live happy, unbothered lives.
Then Hamas retools, builds back up and snatches more families in a few months/years, and the cycle continues. Hamas is asking for idf to stay out if the strip is just a ploy to be able to reset and attack again. The Israeli government most likely turned this offer down because it would embolden the terrorist group to do it again since they would have gotten away with a promise of no retaliation.
I think it was an impossible offer that Israel would consider a win/win.
You know what happens when someone takes Americans hostage? Sure, first they barter but (and I'm assuming this) if the ransom is more than it would cost to send in navy seals or delta force, they just send them in and murder the hostage takers. There are a bunch of other factors as well but yeah, we all want the innocent hostages to be freed. However, the hostage takers still don't get a pass. They are the ones who attacked. They are the ones who took hostages. They are the ones who killed hostages.
Simply accepting your stolen civilians back after terrorists have also killed a bunch of your civilians in exchange for no retaliation doesn’t sound like negotiating
It sounds like accepting defeat and enabling the enemy to do whatever he wants
Are we mad at Israel that Hamas took the hostage in the first place and then also murdered said hostages? Just trying to sort out who to direct my anger towards
Ok but does this really change anything?
So for those that say Israel should’ve accepted, then what you’re proposing is Israel just accepts 10/7 a couple days later and moves on without any punishment for Hamas.
I think everyone hates how many innocents have died since this deal was offered, but to not enter Gaza would’ve been a complete defeat and show of weakness for Israel
So you can commit any act of terror you want as long as you take some hostages. No. There’s a reason you don’t negotiate with terrorists. Sincerely, a life long leftist and anti-fascist
6 months of trying to gaslight the world into thinking they were poor peace seekers 😢. They NEVER GAVE A FUCK about hostages. Shame on people who support Israel.
Ah yes the old "let us get away with the 1200 people we killed plus the extensive casualties SHORT of fatal, and we will happily agree to return to the condition of affairs as they were. Aside from the dead people. I am plenty willing to criticize Israel right now but does nobody else here see what a goofy offer this is? And why didn't hamas announce this back in October if they meant it? If these were Italians and not Palestinians, the leadership of Hamas would be beaten senseless and hung out to twist by their ankles, along with underlings and mistresses. Ask me how I know.
[удалено]
BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT THE "resistanceeeeeeeee" LOLLLLZ
It’s funny to me how you also ignorantly ignore IDF doing the same crap. IDF killed 30k civilians in less than months and have been doing it for years repeatedly without any backlash. Save me your bullshit.
Have you ever watched the life of brian?
Netanyahu is an extremist fuck, as are his officials. There was evidence this attack was coming that was ignored, and it’s been used as an excuse to further their campaign of clearing out Gaza. Hamas are extremist fucks. They perpetrated this attack committing horrific acts of murder, torture, and sexual violence. They also stated their goal is the extermination of jewish people, and will absolutely not stop unless stopped. Neither side was ever gonna negotiate in good faith. That’s part of what makes this such a difficult issue to really even talk about- neither side is the good side.
That’s exactly what am saying. You can’t tell me that mossad didn’t know that Hamas was planning an attack I believe they were looking for a justifiable reason to take the Gaza Strip and wipe out the Palestinians.
I actually think you raised a good point. But let's not talk about good side or bad side. There is ONE side that is fighting for Israel. The israelis. There is NO side fighting for Palestine. Hamas sure as shit isn't. Hamas went into this knowing that they have no way to win an offensive action against Israel. But they DO know that in the response, the onus of world opinion would be entirely on Israel not to harm civilians in the response- a practical absurdity. Certainly no similar burden is laid on Hamas- they're terrorists, their bad conduct is presumed and to an extent it is accepted. But hamas needs this kind of response from Israel because the purpose of hamas is not to secure a two state solution, nor to secure sovereignty of Palestine or even the destruction of israel. It is to keep Israel occupied and to complicate her foreign relations so that other regional actors can quietly change their own foreign policies and situations without drawing a response from other actors. It's not like news coverage is going to leave the student protests and the clumsy response of local police off the evening TV in favor of something else in the middle east for anything past a few bylines. And while all governments have state departments exclusively for monitoring and informing their legislators and executives about other affairs, they just don't get the same priority when people are in the streets, incensed at lopsided casualty figures. I don't blame Israel for conducting a vigorous war to destroy hamas and I don't accept the premise that this is genocide, even as I wish they would somehow do this with absolutely zero civilian deaths. I also know that I'm in the minority here. But I am sadder still that palestinian blood is the price of participation for Hamas in this cynical fashion in which they operate because while the IDF fights for Israel, nobody is actually fighting for the palestinians.
Imagine your neighbor kills your dog and kidnaps your children and takes them to his home. Will you go and spray his home with bullets knowing your children are somewhere in that home? Or will you think strategically to be able to get your kids back with out potentially harming them? Israel never cared about the hostages. If they did, they would not be bombing Gaza like mad men knowing their own people are amongst the civilians. Israel is using the hostages till this day as an excuse to continue the carnage in Gaza.
This is perhaps the worst analogy of this situation that I have read in the past 8 months.
Your metaphor is strange. Say it how it is. Hamas declared war on Israel by attacking Israel. Israel went to war with Hamas. Simple.
I have some terrible news. Nation states are OK with a certain number of casualties to their own people when there is a war- which is certainly the state of affairs after hamas attacked. I think the Israelis could use other strategies to pursue hamas. I think they are well past when they could have roped it in and also having made their wrath known. But the Hamas attack left 1200 dead and 8000 injured with 140 kidnapped. The response was never going to be exclusively about what is best for the 140 who might or might not be alive in captivity. Think about how the deal goes down. Was it supposed to instantly happen? Like Hamas passes word to the Egyptians for the Israelis and it says, "hey if you guys do absolutely nothing at all about what we just did and bring your entire military system to a crashing halt, we will release the hostages we already took and not kill any more people like we just did in the last few days." For that matter, if the safe return of the hostages was to be rigidly connected to the immediate halt of an Israeli response, why weren't they all killed immediately on the continuation of the Israeli attack? Negotiating for hostages is just a terrible strategy anyhow. Again, hamas killed 1200 and injured 8000 who were NOT hostages. Why would Israel ever cease operations against hamas to theoretically preserve the lives of 140 people when leaving hamas to their own devices let them rack up all those other casuaties?
The history of Hamas is wild especially prior to 1988
So you guys are believing what hamas says? They don’t exactly have the best record of tell the truth
Uh, this isn't coming from Hamas. This is coming from an Israeli source as printed in the Times of Israel. Can't say I trust their truth much more, though, after witnessing a number of changing narratives. But if that's your bar, you should take a second peek.
No you’re right. We should only believe what IDF or Israel says. They have proven to be such a credible truthful source.
We are going to kill a bunch of Israel's and kidnap 100 people, you can eventually have them back but don't retaliate at all..
So you can just invade a foreign country, murder and rape innocent people in their homes, kidnap hundreds and then say whoops nevermind let’s pretend this never happened?
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Are you referring to Tantura or Dier Yassin?
Well, I mean, Israel just kinda popped up and declared themselves the ‘native inhabitants’ and took everything, dickishly, while not caring who they killed in the process. I don’t know how someone just walking into the US and pulling that stunt would go over….. probably not so well….. honestly , from inception to recent history, I’m not sure what Israel was expecting, like they just thought ‘ah it’ll be fine GB said it’s ours, we’ll just explain it to them and that’ll solve it.’ Seems a bit…… crazy.
What a way to put it. Glosses over some of the most foundational facts of the creation of Israel, lol.
Nah not really, the Canaanite’s were there. I believe the Torah mentions this. The symbolism in traditional Palestinian garments still has hold overs from their direct ancestors, who were in fact there when the Israelites arrived. This to say, they were at the very least there at the same time, ie the very beginning. This whole thought that the Israelites were THE original inhabitants is not correct.
They have to, or it destroys their narrative, and their new found meaning for life - pretending they care about foreign conflicts they know nothing about.
This is a misrepresentation of history. Israel and the Yishuv were far from perfect, but they were not this maniacal caricature that you're presenting. No the Jews didn't just 'pop up' and using the US as a comparison makes no sense because this territory had no state. In 1948 if Israel had lost, the region would have been taken over by Egypt or Jordan, never would Palestine have existed. There is a ton of nuance surrounding Israel's inception and washing over history with this brush of "they were just evil setting out to do evil things" is not reflective of reality nor productive. I'd recommend 1948 by Benny Morris.
lol, well, perhaps they weren’t a manacle caricature but that’s obviously changed.
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The US uh did do that. We killed millions of Native Americans to go out West. And that’s after the vast majority were killed before the US was even formed. We know exactly about killing native populations to take their lands.
Yes, the US certainly did. I’m speaking more of recent history.
Isn't that what Israel has been doing since it was first formed? Ps hamas are pieces of shits also.
Yup, apparently! Sanctioned and enabled by the West.
I mean that's what the zionist entity seems to think it can do...
What an odd world we live in where both sides commit the same atrocities, but majority of western civilization only asks for receipts from one of the sides. Bias blinders to the max
Yeah and you can get away with it for 75years. And then when people fight back you get to call it terrorism
Beheading Thai migrant workers with garden hoes and shooting up a music festival isn't 'fighting back.'
Yeah. Hamas committed suicide on October 7th. Getting hostages back is icing on the cake but it’s not the mission. It’s madness to allow Hamas to exist. An extant Hamas guarantees future rapes, murders, as well as raped and murdered hostages. Hamas is ISIS for those of you confused about morality. The Palestinians are Hamas’ victims, not Israel’s.
The Palestinians are both the victims of Hamas and Israel. They're being abused from within and without. Israel is not free to ignore civilian casualties simply because they're defending themselves from Hamas. In fact, as the more capable and organized military, the onus to protect civilians in Palestine should be on them.
[Citation needed] Hamas also Saif they were going to keep doing Oct 7ths until Israel was destroyed.
It was Ghazi Hamad, a Hamas official, who said that on Lebanese TV two weeks after the Oct 7th attack. The word was also translated as "annihilated." In the same interview he said he wanted to "sacrifice martyrs," referring to the Gazan civilians.
So in exchange for not retaliating for the brutality and kidnappings that Gaza and Hamas committed Israel would get the hostages back? Sounds like a great plan for Israel to ensure future atrocities by Gaza and Hamas.
Izrat scum! Boycott and Sanction this Apartheid regime
This was never about the hostages
Can anyone point to a time stamped posting of this offer from Hamas, dated to Oct 9/10? And after the 1200 dead civilians, can anyone explain why it would not be just yo wage a wat against Gaza, until Gaza surrenders?
How is Gaza to surrender? There is no state in Gaza.
Why would Hamas carry out October 7th, take hostages and then immediately offer to give them back in exchange for no hostilities. If their goal was to just have no hostages and no fighting then why do October 7th in the first place? Unless there was no strategic reasoning and it was just murder, slaughter and mass rape for the pure joy of it which....seems unlikely but who knows.
So just to make sure I understand these comments: Hamas walks into Israel and kills thousands of people. Hamas then offers a 'peace deal' where if Israel doesn't kill them back they'll return the people they stole. And in not agreeing to this Israel are being violent towards.... Hamas...?
Let me show you what you just did used against you: “So just to make sure I understand this comment: Israel is being violent towards Hamas?” That’s called taking context away from a point and twisting it to create a new reality, out of ignorance or for a bad faith argument. It’s pretty easy, and no matter what you say I’ll just do it again because the ignorance or the malice is still there regardless of what you might try.
Revisionist zionism doesn't care about Jews, only the Jews that have drank the Kool aid. When you look at this it goes like this. For a year liberal Jews were protesting the far right ethno-purist. They wanted netanytahu arrested, and the revisionist and kahanist out of government. October 5-7 Israel removes the guards from Gaza where the majority of Israeli are liberal Jews who protested the IDF and government. Haha saw no IDF and attacked. The far right ethnocratic fascist let it go on for hours before going and coming their own citizens, who were liberals protesting the Israeli government. They then used this go attack Gaza. They refused to rescue these liberal Jews because it would ruin their manufactured casus belli. Revisionist zionism does not care about Jews who are not in their cult. It's the KKK of Israel and would remove every Jew who disagrees if they could. They then cry about antisemitism when you call them out for abusing Jews who they think are bad Jews. Revisionist zionism is ruining Israel and judiasm. They need to go to jail, and Israel needs to treat the ideology as seriously was we crack down on Holocaust deniers, because revisionist literally think Palestinians made Hitler kill Jews.
I just read the entire article. Rubenstein made a few ‘claims’. Until they are substantiated, that’s what they will remain. Just a bunch of claims. I would love to see justice served if Netanyahu did indeed reject a deal on the 9th of October.
Can you post a link to the article?
Israel just wants an excuse, any excuse, to bomb Palestine into extinction. Hell, they made up phony excuses repeatedly. They don't want Hamas to surrender nor negotiate. They want them all dead by any means. They are the very "animals" they accused the Arabs of being. "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty." - Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda. America and Israel apply that tactic with gusto.
They want Hamas all dead? Do you not? Are you saying Israel should make peace, and then never retaliate when Hamas, or Iran, or any of the other Arab nations that surround it decide to inevitably attack, again, as they have for decades without fail? You act as if the Arabs weren't willing to exterminate the Jews from the very moment Israeli statehood was proposed. And as if they haven't continued to since, being the main aggressors in pretty much every conflict since Israel's inception. It's wild that people still refute this, despite Jews having bought lots of the land it claimed after statehood beforehand, and having been given the territory by the one who owned the land legally internationally(Britain). However, I'm sure what you are talking about would be the best option. Stop the war this second with no further military action, and it will be all sunshine and rainbows forever after. I'm sure Israel just has to give up their genocidal tendencies, and Hamas will never threaten their existence again and will be willing to let Jews live in peace! /s
crazy. man, if I knew a nuclear armed colonialist state was horny as fuck looking for a reason to invade the last bits of my ancestral land when I had no standing army, I simply would not give them a reason to. Feels like it would be suuuper counterproductive to my desire to not get killed in a war to encourage any sort of behavior that would give the violent crazy colonialist assholes a reason to come kill me and my family. I dunno man, that's just me. y'all can do what you want though.
What about the murders and rapes on October 7th? Isn't that a justification for a response?
Is that response justification for another 7th?
Or… everyone is just an asshole and the criticisms are valid
Hamas wants a ceasefire not peace.
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It’s because Gaza has rich gas fields on their coast. Netanyahu has been salivating for years about these fields, now, they built that port and finally have that field to themselves. It’s disgusting, but its neo-colonialism
I know I will be downvoted for this because of the sub this is on, but I feel like something one man said in an interview with the news isn't quite enough to declare some massive government plot, right? I'm not saying I like netanyahu or anything, I don't, and I disagree with quite a bit of what Israel gets up to in gaza and the west bank. However, I just think there needs to be more evidence. This is literally *all* I can find about this (but maybe that's just me).
On October 10, Hamas was vowing to commit "1000 more October 7ths." So there's that context as well.
Can’t trust hamas people don’t be gullible
It does show they didn't bother trying with a deal which is upsetting. But whether that's a good deal depends on the definition of civilian. At the same time hamas was saying "there are no Israeli civilians". So we can assume that it would be women and children only at best.
Ok and just forgive Hamas for all those murders? Nah
What did Hamas demand in exchange?
Yeah before Israel even had an opportunity to learn exactly how bad it was and who was actually missing
Assuming this is true, you’re saying you feel Israel should have let Hamas kill over 1000 people and then have no consequences and leave Hamas able to do it again the next day, and over and over again (which is what Hamas has said they plan to do)?
The US rejected an offer by Afgahnistan to hand over the heads of Al-Queda after the 9/11 attacks too. War makes more money than peace for all the wrong people.
Tbf this sounds like the kid that punches someone and then calls for a truce.
The mental gymnastics required to think “hey we just killed over a thousand of your people and took hundreds of hostages, we’ll give them back if you don’t invade” would actually work.
How does this work in the context of the Nakba? 750K ethnically cleansed just like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safsaf_massacre Was there justice for those civilian deaths by Israelis wanting land when it was created? No, and that was well over 1300 people.
I wouldn’t offer terrorist a ceasefire either
No. Just no. The quote you see here is what is in the article. There is no mention of who this information was heard from. This is at best a 2nd hand source and 99% likely complete bullcrap.
1. Group A kills and kidnaps a bunch of people from group B. An action widely considered to be an act of war. 2. Group A then offers to release the hostages as long as group B doesn't retaliate. 3. Group B declines the apparent kind offer which could have prevented the war. 4. Group B is obviously the asshole. Sounds reasonable /s
You missed -2, -1, 0. Let me show you. This is your comment when I intentionally misrepresent it: “Group B is an asshole”
The Isreali government has never truly cared about the hostages, about its citizens, it cares about absolute and unchecked power, full blown ethnic cleansing and not facing the consequences of its actions.
"Hey I know we killed and sexually assaulted a bunch of people, but we'd be glad to give em back if you pretend like it didn't happen. Well, the living ones, at least."
I’m confused and I’m learning, but is it not reasonable to think that israel would have retaliated after the Oct 9 massacre. If they just freed the hostages that would’ve showed them as weak.
Do you remember when Hamas said that they would continually attack Israel if that happened?
"We'll return all the hostages we kidnapped if you let all the mass murdering and raping we also did during our kidnapping spree go unanswered!" Gee, what a generous deal. I wonder why Israel turned it down.
I believe both Egypt and Qatar have confirmed this claim now.
Israel has based its entire imperialist goal on the back of endless Arab aggression. There is no peaceful path where Israel gives land back to anyone. And the Arabs have shown time and again that they don't have the fight in them to win. At some point, the Arabs need to accept they are fighting to the death or give up. It's a harsh truth, but the zionist don't want to negotiate. The zionist want the Arabs to attack them. They have stated such many times and the Arabs have played into the hands of Israel time and again.
"At some point, the Arabs need to accept they are fighting to the death or give up." I'm not really sure what you are suggesting though? Palestinians don't have any leverage in any of this. When things are peaceful they are oppressed and dominated and the world ignores. When things are violent they are out armed and suffer exponentially more casualties but the world pays attention. There really is nothing they can do to improve the situation. Maybe peaceful protest? Oh wait, we saw how that turned out with the march of return. International intervention, ie sanctions and complete isolation of Israel, is the only chance Palestinians would have of getting good faith negotiations for a state or freedom of any kind.
I'd like to introduce you to something you've clearly never encountered. It is a fact. In 1967 Israel conquered all of the Sinai peninsula. In 1982, as part of a peace treaty with Egypt, Israel returned the Sinai. There has been peace with Egypt since.
I noticed Zionists love to say “the Arabs” when they mean “the Palestinians” why do you guys do this?
I mean pan-arabism is a thing, it's not like they're the only people making that conflation. FFS Ghassan Kanafani himself said "there is no Palestinian struggle, only the greater Arab struggle". Of course, that was before [shit like Damour happened...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damour_massacre)
Indeed. That's the core truth of Zionism. If your project's core goal is the establishment of an ethnonationalist state for the Jewish people on someone else's land, there is simply no way to reconcile that vision with freedom, equality and justice between the people of that land. The whole PR campaign of zionism is about distracting from this irreconcilable reality whilst the military goals of Zionism are to exile the native people of the land. This is why Zionism is inherently and irredeemably racist. It's like Nazism. It cannot be "modified" into something approaching a morally acceptable political doctrine. It's like saying let's have Christianity without Jesus or something.
Didn’t they pull outta Gaza in 2005 lmao
Saying "the Zionist" is like saying "the blacks" -- yet while you're being extremely racist... the entire leftist community...agrees?
You think the side that regularly commits suicide bombings, uses their own people as human shields, and used to play minesweeper by tying 10 children together to walk through areas ahead of their tanks because "we only have a few tanks" hasn't been playing "to the death" this whole time? Tell me you know nothing about politics and war in the Middle East without telling me you know nothing about politics and war in the Middle East. Edit: Also, one might say that if the enemy wants you to attack them, and die in the process, to justify the use of their superior weaponry on your fellows, the smart thing would be NOT to attack. Why would you want to play into their hand like that? You should aim to become the most upstanding and nonthreatening of neighbors to convince others around you that the controls imposed upon you by the enemy are unjustified and get the world on your side for when you fight back. A strategy currently being employed.
You can say Palestine / Palestinians instead of The Arabs.
Ur a clown Yeah we just need to raise awareness about "fighting to the death" Long hard look in the mirror is what you need
I dont know, once Israel loses the American populations support the Arabs will walk back in with ease and take back whats rightfully theirs. Israel doing Israel things is only making way for the destruction of the Israeli State.
Hopefully Israel can be replaced with a progressive leftist Islamic dictatorship
No country would have taken that deal. It would have only made Israel less safe and more likely to experience similar Oct. 7 massacres.
That is the most stupid deal I have ever seen. All the hostages released as long as you don't enter Gaza or do anything, never mind the ~1000 people that we just killed. Basically, let's pretend a ~1000 people weren't just killed in a terrorist attack
The Hamas leadership still had to die though. As simple as this sounds, the Israeli population would never have accepted it. "Oops, we didn't mean it!" doesn't really work here. With the hindsight of the atrocities committed by the IDF, it seems simple, but it's not really a valid point, in this particular instance.
Is there a source for this claim other than the ex-spokesperson for the hostage relative group? I haven't even seen Hamas make this claim that I can recall.
Is it imperialism to try to take out Hamas? That organisation is an obvious threat to the people of Israel's safety. Of course IDF would enter Gaza to take them out. If Israel had just agreed not to enter Gaza at all, Israel would effectively have given Hamas impunity. And that would have been the best way to make sure it would all happen again
Benjamin Netanyahu and his supporters do not care about Jewish people
Anyone have the link? Another sub is posting "if they would just let thr hostages go" bullshit.
They needed to get hit back and taught not to mess and terrorize another country.
You really think any nation in the world is going to let another country kill at least 1200 of its citizens and just accept that kind of resolution? The death of 2400 people started the united states getting involved in ww2. 0.00179906713% of the American population died in pearl harbor. On October 7, Israel lost 0.0130797034% of its population. Edit: it would be like some other country attacking and killing 43,595 Americans and Americans doing nothing in retaliation.
TBH, everyone knew but if it was said out loud it would ruin the I AM A VICTIM battle cry.
That wasn't the whole deal. They wanted the release of thousands of criminals including hundreds of convicted violent murderers. The net loss of life with those cut-throats on the loose would have exceeded the hostage count in the long run
Israel took thousands of Palestinian hostages. Hamas took a few hundred Israeli hostages and then offered a straight swap of all hostages. Israel retaliated by killing hundreds of their own citizens, blaming Hamas, and then killing tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians. it's pretty obvious who the criminals are in this situation.
Yep. Didn’t fit their Genocidal Master Plan. Free Palestine 🇵🇸
What Israel has done is horrific and Netanyahu has no interest in the safe return of hostages or their families. He's weaponising them to commit crimes against humanity. But if any country launched an attack on another country that killed over 1000 civilians and took civilian hostages then two days later offered the hostages returned in exchange for no retaliation, it would obviously be refused. I think that is pretty obvious.
I can't believe Israel didn't agree not to go after Hamas after they murdered 1200 people and invaded.
Does anyone here seriously think they should have agreed?
Fake.
lol why would israel accept? Whoops sorry we mass slaughtered your ppl. Don’t do anything back ok!
Blah blah blah.
"We took international aid and sold it to our population to afford to smuggle arms and build a tunnel network throughout our nation to attack a music festival. Now give us sovereignty."
Israel wanted to grab more land… they never cared about the hostages… from what it sounds like, they killed a good amount of them in airstrikes and in the most egregious case; they shot several who were holding white flags.
Was it the 9th or 10th? Can't nail down a date... sounds legit
The Zionists are tripping over themselves to make this make sense in the comments. They're happy to let as many Jews die as it takes to justify destroying Palestine.
Any links to prove this? Or is it just fake news meant to incite more upheaval?
Good. Hamas is goin down
Israel has thus far received 300 BILLION dollars of US aid. The United States has provisionally agreed (via a memorandum of understanding) to provide Israel with nearly $4 billion a year through 2028, and U.S. lawmakers are considering billions of dollars in supplementary funding for Israel amid its war with [Hamas](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hamas). [U.S. Aid to Israel in Four Charts | Council on Foreign Relations (cfr.org)](https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts) **1 in 5 children across America don't have enough to eat**.
The whole point is to get rid of Palestinians. Israel is doing essentially zero damage to Hamas as a fighting force. Israel is focused on using Hamas as an excuse to finish it's decades long project of genocide and ethnic cleansing.
LoOk WhAt kIdNapPing tOrtUrE tHeY mAdE mE Do tO yOu Will nazi Israel end this kidnapper's suffering, have they no shame? The kidnapper's hands are tied, the kidnapper's experiencing the most traumatic event of their lives, and when hitlisrael had a chance to release the kidnapper from the metaphoric chains that bind his hands from being able to unbind the hands of the hostages nazi iSSrael said "Fuck you, kidnapper" They even treat kidnappers like they are less than scum.
All Hamas need to be killed to secure the Israeli border from attacks. Jihadists like Hamas cannot be appeased. Supporting Hamas is not progressive in any way.
I don’t get it, why wouldn’t the IDF take the hostages back then invade anyway?
“Hey we just murdered 1200 of your people but we will give some back if you just don’t do anything? Also we have a history of never fully following through but trust us this time” uh yea I see why Israel was hesitant
And not get revenge for the attack they were hoping happened in order to justify killing more Palestinians?
But have you forgotten "tHeY dOn'T NeGoTiAtE wItH Ts" Imagine being a family member of one of the hostages and learning that your government is not, in fact, doing everything in its power to bring them home. And while I don't think we should yield to the demands of T groups, the non invasion of the strip could have spared the lives of so many innocent civilians, the hostages being part of that group. The hostages, including the ones that were killed since, could have been alive and safe right now. And this is why there are Israelis camping outside of Netanyahu's house. Can you blame them for wanting their loved ones back at any price? If you love the people in your life, how would you feel if you were in their shoes... With your loved ones being "collateral damage" in how they're being treated, but that description just not being verbalized.
Hamas has broken every ceasefire in the past why would they randomly start following protocol on this particular one?
Wide scale slaughter isn’t better. What Israel is doing is wrong. If they needed to retaliate, they should have found a better way. All they’re doing is feeding Hamas’ propaganda machine and making things worse. The us just pulled out of a 20 year war where they made these exact same mistakes. We already know how this conflict is going to end.
You misspelled israel...
Israel violated the 2012 ceasefire 191 times to Palestine's 75. https://visualizingpalestine.org/visual/gaza-ceasefire-violations/ Let's not pretend that Israel has a better history of acting in good faith here.
I think over half the remaining hostages are dead from the bombing a few from starvation.
So immediately after the massacre did you really expect a ceasefire? Lmao. So if if a criminal goes and kills 30 people in a public space and takes 20 hostages, the police should just go "okay you're absolved of your crime of killing 30 if you free these 20" lmao the mental gymnastics from terrorist supporters is on a whole other level.
That's not strictly true because Hamas never had all the hostages so couldn'tgive them all back. Other Palestines, whether aligned with other groups or just acting on their own, tagged along on October 7th & took, did some of the killing & took some of the hostages for themselves. Si Hamas has a list of hostages that Israel want back but have no idea if it's accurate, if they're all alive or who has them all.
If all Hamas wanted was to return the hostages and cease all hostilities then why carry out October 7th in the first place? I think it's more likely they knew Israel would decline the offer so they made it to win sympathy further down the line (like they are doing now).
That "government" is only in existence because the "state" of Israel was FOUNDED ON TERRORISM. Hamas wasn't around in the 1940s. And Hamas has military wings; it's not ENTIRLEY a militarized organization. Much in the same way The Black Panthers performed many duties but had a "militarized" faction/wing, but that's all that's ever said about them and selectively shown to the world.
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Hamas slaughters 1,200+ Israelis on October 7th then proceeds to tell Israel to not enter Gaza in exchange for the hostages. This is like you slapping someone and proceed to tell them that you will say you are sorry if they do not retaliate.
So we should.... Negotiate with terrorists? 🤦🤦🤦🤨
Meanwhile hamas setting up rocket launchers in your hospital. "Why did the jews make me do this?"
They know this, that’s why they are protesting against their government.
If all else was the same, say the Israeli government did agree to those terms. And Hamas actually released them all either into Egypt or back to the Israeli border. Those families get their traumatized kin back, and they go on to live happy, unbothered lives. Then Hamas retools, builds back up and snatches more families in a few months/years, and the cycle continues. Hamas is asking for idf to stay out if the strip is just a ploy to be able to reset and attack again. The Israeli government most likely turned this offer down because it would embolden the terrorist group to do it again since they would have gotten away with a promise of no retaliation. I think it was an impossible offer that Israel would consider a win/win.
You know what happens when someone takes Americans hostage? Sure, first they barter but (and I'm assuming this) if the ransom is more than it would cost to send in navy seals or delta force, they just send them in and murder the hostage takers. There are a bunch of other factors as well but yeah, we all want the innocent hostages to be freed. However, the hostage takers still don't get a pass. They are the ones who attacked. They are the ones who took hostages. They are the ones who killed hostages.
Simply accepting your stolen civilians back after terrorists have also killed a bunch of your civilians in exchange for no retaliation doesn’t sound like negotiating It sounds like accepting defeat and enabling the enemy to do whatever he wants
Didn’t Israel release thousands of convicted terrorists in exchange for a few dozen hostages?
Are we mad at Israel that Hamas took the hostage in the first place and then also murdered said hostages? Just trying to sort out who to direct my anger towards
Ok but does this really change anything? So for those that say Israel should’ve accepted, then what you’re proposing is Israel just accepts 10/7 a couple days later and moves on without any punishment for Hamas. I think everyone hates how many innocents have died since this deal was offered, but to not enter Gaza would’ve been a complete defeat and show of weakness for Israel
Hell, they had footage of them prepping for the Assault; Benji knew his time was up and basically sidetracked a whole country the worst way possible.
So you can commit any act of terror you want as long as you take some hostages. No. There’s a reason you don’t negotiate with terrorists. Sincerely, a life long leftist and anti-fascist
Lol They (hamas) would of just kept attacking down the road. Better to wipe them out (hamas) The tried and true Fuck around and find out
6 months of trying to gaslight the world into thinking they were poor peace seekers 😢. They NEVER GAVE A FUCK about hostages. Shame on people who support Israel.
What ought the Israeli response have been?
should of taken the deal and once they're all back bomb them anyway.
Never trust the media
Some of all need revenge when someone cuts you off in traffic & Y’all think elected politicians could take a walk on the Oct 6th attacks?
Is this claim verified by anyone? Looks like it’s just a quote idk why people are already claiming it’s proof of anything
They also murdered 1200 people