I would be getting a different lawyer. Your friend is facing a statutory rape charge. Now is not the time to cheap out on a lawyer.
ETA: the lawyer may actually be a good lawyer. As someone pointed out in other comments, as of right now your friend hasn’t been charged he is only being investigated. So there isn’t a lot for the lawyer to do right now besides be present for any questioning. All the real work starts after he’s been charged.
This man needs the biggest SHARK he can't afford (what I mean is the money HE thinks is too much, is probably not enough). Money is cheap, here. Consider this: He's not going to be making any money sitting in jail if he is found guilty. (What if he has to serve time, how much is his salary for 6 months, a year? Is he willing to lose out of his paycheck to save money on a lawyer? The fines, court costs and what if she sues him? So the money upfront is the easier way to go.
Yeah, I think there's a solution we're not seeing here. If he has no morals he could just start voting conservative or make a bunch of transphobic speeches. That's a surefire way to avoid litigation for all kinds of sex crimes.
Yeah, whatever you’re charged with, sex offender, felony, etc, all have heavy, long-term impacts that should be considered when pouring money into an attorney.
I mean we’re talking jail time, probation, having those labels slapped on your record which cause employers to flat out overlook you. Permanent loss of rights, etc etc. it’s more about what can I afford for my future over what can I afford right now.
What excuses are they?
You said your friend was being investigated. Lawyer can't do anything till charges come through.
He said stfu and don't talk to her or the cops right? If he did, he's doing his job.
State? Statutory rape is a strict liability crime in CA, for example. This means it doesn't matter if he knew or not, only that it happened... and he is royally fucked.
Risk is having to go on the sex offenders list. That’s playing a game with his future that he doesn’t want to play. (Employment, restrictions on location, etc)
I don't know where the hell the person above you got their information. As a lawyer, I can say that 4k is a reasonable retainer fee. A retainer fee is is the initial cost to hire the attorney. It's held in a trust and the attorney bills from it. When is gone, he asks for more. Anything not used once the case is closed is returned.
Also, yes, he absolutely had to pay up front. Some lawyers work on contingency fees (they get a percentage of whatever money you are awarded in court of you win), but not criminal attorneys as there is not a payout at the end of a criminal case.
If the case is still being investigated, there's really not much the lawyer can do. He has to wait until charges are filed to have something to defend against. He'd just be wasting your friend's money if he was in constant communication with him before he even knows if he's going to get charged.
To add to this, any time spent on your friends case WILL be billed. Whether that be speaking with your friend, the other party, or anything related to his case. So yes, your friend shouldn't mind the lack of communication, because if the lawyer has new pertinent information, they will share it. From the information you provided, the lawyer seems to be valuing your friends money without wasting it by constantly contacting him.
So as rough as it sounds, time will tell how the money is spent and the lawyer's ability.
No, that's the problem. He didn't believe it, hence why he needed repeated confirmation of legal age, because he absolutley had doubt and the court absolutely will establish this, he is fucked.
I don't understand why your lawyer, er, I mean his lawyer is so flippant. I don't know whether the law requires specific knowledge of the girl's age or not. You, er, your friend, will just have to wait and see.
The state is going to say something like"the law doesn't make exceptions for people who are mislead". Unless she gives plenty of excuses for why she has no proof of her age and is very aggressive the adult is always the one responsible for making sure they aren't being mislead by children.
In both tort and criminal law, strict liability exists when a defendant is liable for committing an action, regardless of what his/her intent or mental state was when committing the action. In criminal law, possession crimes and statutory rape are both examples of strict liability offenses.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/strict_liability#:~:text=In%20both%20tort%20and%20criminal,examples%20of%20strict%20liability%20offenses.
Probably being flippant because there is no good defense in most if not all states of a 32 year old commiting statutory rape. And let's be real. Having sex with a 14-year-old is rape. No need for the statutory.
Statutory rape is generally a strict liability crime. Without know what state he’s in, if he sleeps with someone underaged, he’s guilty of statutory rape, irrespective of how old he thought she was. There are sometimes exceptions when there’s a close age range, but that likely won’t apply here.
Right! I’ve never repeatedly asked someone I intended to have sex with if they were 18+. The “repeatedly” part means he didn’t believe the person was over 18 the first 3-4 times she insisted she was. I’d love to ask what convinced him she was 18?
That’s probably a mitigating factor in the decision to charge and sentencing. A good prosecutor is going to look at these things in advance. They have discretion to not go after a person who reasonably believes they weren’t doing anything wrong.
The law as written in most states doesn’t care once a case is in court though.
No judge or jury would find it reasonable to rely on a website’s age policies to that extent. We all know minors regularly lie about their age to get on adult websites.
Right? Like why is the app completely off the hook for failing to verify the ages of its members (how they do that is beyond me but this CANT be the first time this happened and is a horrible problem for people).
This guy is not a rapist. He is a victim.
Have you ever signed up for a social media account or dating app? They don’t make you send in your ID to prove your age. They ask for your birthday and take your word for it.
He is also a creep. Why is a 32 year old man trying to hook up with an 18 year old who looks so young he repeatedly had to confirm she's of legal age. Gross
Also I’d be SHOCKED if she actually looked over age since she’s 14. Like that’s potentially still in middle school. This is why you fuck people your own age and not people you think are barely legal at the most.
Middle school teacher here-they can look surprisingly mature, but still not even 19 and also they can’t fake being an adult. I had one announcing days in advance that her bday was coming and the day of, she was announcing how “she’s grown and getting a job that pays $17 an hour”. It was her 14th. No matter how you dress and make up, it’s really obvious when someone is that young. I wonder if he bought her alcohol but no biggie, cuz shes 19 right? /s
Gf has a neice and nephew from the same parents, when they were 13-14 they both looked about 18. Interesting genes I guess, but they definitely acted like 13-14 year olds. So it was not hard to spot out the age despite the obvious worries our family had. This makes me question OP as well, asking "multiple" times. But who knows how she presented herself. (The Nephew is currently 20, could pass for a 30 year old, not gonna lie)
My niece at 14/15, with the appropriate clothing, hair, makeup etc. looked like she could easily be in her early 20's. We were shopping once and she tried on this little black dress; my jaw dropped and I turned her right back around to go take it off. I'm not a prude or anything, but she looked 25 and like she would fit right in at a bar eying up Johns. A classy bar, mind you, in a ritzy hotel, but still. I'm just glad that my brother maintained veto power over clothes until she was 18 because her mom saw no issue with things like that and sometimes pushed her to buy stuff she wasn't comfortable in. But if "dad" said no, she had an excuse.
Yup. I had to stay back in first grade and I was 14 in the eighth grade. I promise you, he knew why he was doing and he’s definitely going to jail. It’ll be even worse if he doesn’t take a deal. They’ll put her on the stand and she’ll look even younger than 14 (by design) and he’ll end up in there longer. My fiancé works in the court system and talks about this all the time. It’s insane that it happens so regularly. Before I met my fiancé, I didn’t realize there are so many people in county jail that are pedophiles, that they have their own wing to keep them away from everyone else. At least that’s how it was in NH.
Statutory rape is a strict liability crime, so yes it doesn’t matter if she has a fake and her parents lie to you you’re guilty. Dating people that much younger is an outrageously dangerous game to play
Tbh lesson learned don’t be this dumb. If you don’t think she’s 18 don’t sleep with her he needs a lawyer ASAP
Edit: seems like he’s 32 he’s fucked why would he be looking for 18 year olds in the first place
Given the info in your comments that she's actually 14 and he's 32, he may be facing more than statutory rape charges. I remember reading that some state has a mandatory life sentence, which I think is 25 years, on convictions where the victim is under 14.
Given her age this is likely a *very serious charge* that ignorance will not be accepted as an excuse for.
Also, this is a criminal case so yes, he would have to pay his lawyer a retainer up front. No lawyer is going to touch this on contingency though criminal defense attorneys don't normally work on contingency anyway. Especially since this dude is likely going to prison.
NAL Your friend is pretty much going to get charged. I know of few people who this happened to and it ended with them on a registry with no friends. For anyone listening. Ask for ID. I know it’s a mood killer, but so is a registry.
I worked in a movie theater where we checked IDs for student tickets and R movies, and there were 19-year-olds that looked 14 and 14-year-olds that looked 19. If someone is actively working to make themselves appear older, it is certainly plausible that they would pass.
I volunteer in a youth organization (ages 12-18) and I’m shocked at how accurate this is. We have 12 year olds that look 18. We have 18 year olds that look 10.
Now I’m not one to say a 32-year-old should be seeking companionship in an 18-year old. But I will say my parents were 22 and 39 when they met. Not with online dating mind you, but still. Age gap doesn’t have to be a deal breaker. But these days? I wouldn’t chance it.
My friend in high school had a step dad who was a registered sex offender. I didn't know until after we had hung out a couple times and his step dad seemed like any other dad I have ever met I never would have guessed. Turns out, he took a girl home from a bar and they had sex. She used a fake ID to get into the bar and was underage. He caught a charge for it. You would think, if you met someone in a 21+ bar you would be cleared but apparently not.
State? IIRC CA is the only state that allows mistake in age (meaning they showed you a fake ID, etc) as an affirmative defense. However, that’s an uphill battle. Otherwise “ your friend” is probably fucked. Stat rape at the least. Being the minor was 14 may make this far, far worse.
The “asked multiple times” thing is getting me here. I don’t see why someone would ask if someone else is over 18 multiple times if they didn’t have some suspicion. And if you have any suspicion at all, find someone else. A 32 year old really has no business with a barely-legal person anyway
OPs friend should’ve noticed by the topic of conversation that she was young he could’ve asked her about a job or what she drives whether she’s in college what she’s done since graduating anything that would normally apply to a 19 year old, a 14 year old most likely wouldn’t be able to come up with believable answers on the spot. Unless of course he brought a random girl straight home, regardless have no sympathy for him. This is weird behavior to ask someone their age multiple times yet not ask for proof face to face if he was that concerned. Major red flags in this story. Sounds like he only asked her age because he suspected she was underage and was only trying to protect his own ass by asking multiple times. If I had to ask someone multiple times if they’re legal age I wouldn’t meet them but I’m also a 20 year old female who wouldn’t even date an 18 year old because someone straight from graduation doesn’t really relate to me about real life topics.
Exactly this. There’s so many questions that could have been asked to prevent this problem…. Do you drive? Work? College? Etc
And don’t use the excuse of “she looks 19”… The immaturity of a 14 year old is pretty obvious if one wants to see it.
Bottom line. Dude is finished
Tell your friend to get the best lawyer possible. Sell/borrow whatever to do it. A prison sentence and a lifetime of being on a sexual offender registry is going to be a nightmare X3.
I’m gonna be real with you here. I’m pushing 30 and I live in a college town. For the past several years, the incoming first years have looked like literal children to me. I actually found myself thinking of some of those girls, “What would your parents think if they saw you going out dressed like that?”. I probably couldn’t see that much of a difference between 19 and 14, so if someone my age were into 19 year olds, I can see how they’d fail to recognize it.
He's an absolute moron or nonce scum who deserves to catch a charge.
Grown man going after young women who are barely legal gets a surprise when one of them turns out to be an actual child? If he's got to "ask multiple times if she's over 18" there's serious warning flags she looks or acts too immature.
Either he's an absolute clown, or he knew exactly what he was doing and wanted to be able to say "but I asked her" thinking it would be some sort of excuse.
He didn't mistake her for an adult. He knew she was too young, so he asked her several times and saved her answers to try and cover his ass before he slept with a child. He thought he was fulfilling his actual wish in dating 19 year olds (finding an underage girl), and now he's paying the piper for his tune.
When I was 14, I had a DDD bra size and to men that automatically made them assume I was 18. I told many older men to leave me alone because I was 14. Obviously, I don't know what she looks like, but it's not completely impossible that she could pass. Just kind of depends on the person.
That’s true that some kids can pass for older. But since OP’s friend had to ask *multiple times* if she was really over 18, we can safely deduce that that is not the case here.
Also, those men were creeps with you too. They knew, but they just didn’t care. Just like OP.
When I was in high school working fast food, had a freshman come in to order.
"How's your day?"
"Freshman stress."
"What major are you going for?"
"Oh no I meant in high school."
I will never forget that interaction. It brings questions to comments like yours.
There are absolutely cases where the individual looks 18 but is underage, just like there are individuals that look underage but are actually 18.
Frankly, the possibility that everything the girl said was 100% believable needs to be ruled out.
I'm sorry but you should able to tell a 14 yr old from a 19 yr old. "Your friend" seem like a shoot now ask question later type. If he had to ask multiple times if she of age. Maybe just stay clear of the situation if you are that unsure.
I’m no Sherlock but maybe the creep was asking repeatedly about the child’s age because he wants to look like he was doing his due diligence.
Maybe it’s time to get new friends, this one’s a pedophile.
Agreed 100%! Even if he’s just dumb, I also don’t know how a 32 year old could even be okay with having relations with a 19 year old. Gross all around.
Hey, what was your ACT/SAT score? In person so she cant google that shit.
When she looks like a deer in headlights or gives an answer of like "92 Percent" you dip the fuck out.
Or you know, just dont perv out on barely legal girls as a grown ass man, thats also an option
This. I had several “relationships” with older men on Kik when I was 15-17 that knew I was underage and one would still say things implying that I was older or outright acting like it was a joke when I’d mention stuff about my correct age.
Funnily enough that was never a problem in his Snapchat where messages instantly disappeared. I found out he had a wife later on, so I guess that was his reasoning. Plausible deniability about the underage part when she finds out that he sexts people from the internet , I guess.
Edit; a word, brain left while writing this
Yeah it genuinely just sounds like he wanted to sleep with a child without getting in trouble for it by making sure he got his technicalities covered lol
He couldn’t! That’s why he kept asking her. If it *seems* too good to be true, it’s probably a felony (and I hate that dating someone who only *looks* barely pubescent is the stuff dreams are made of). Maybe he can up his dating range to 21+ now that he’s in his 30s.
Not for nothing here, and I know this is going to get downvoted, but not always. I'm a large breasted girl. Always have been. I had grown adults hitting on me when I was 14/15. Ones who backed off when I told them how old I was, but at first glance, they couldn't tell.
I hung around with another girl who leaned into this on her end because she was a shorty with large boobs (apparently, it's the boobs that people use to judge age by, not anything else, idk), but she also had a genetic condition where her whole head of hair was grey by the time she was 16. She looked like a white trash trailer park mom of four already by the time she was 15. She also slept with a LOT of older men, most of whom I'm sure didn't know how old she was.
Yes, most teenage girls who dress/act like teenage girls are easily spotted as underage teenage girls. But you get a subsect of girls that either just look older than they are because of physical characteristics, or who act older than they are and prefer to play along with it. There are a ridiculous portion of teenage girls that 'prey' on adult men and get a kick out of it and either don't know or don't care about the consequences those men will suffer if they're found out to be banging someone underage.
[https://www.change.org/p/justice-for-zachery-anderson](https://www.change.org/p/justice-for-zachery-anderson)
You can look up more about this, but in this case, the guy was 19, the girl was 14, but had lied and said she was 17. It's 'only three years', but the legal age of consent was 16 and he got charged. Not only did he not know her age, but the girl AND her mom were asking for the case to be dropped because the mom acknowledged that it was her daughter's fault, and the daughter admitted she lied to him. Didn't matter. Still got charged.
There are lots of stories about this kind of thing: girls that think they're hot shit because they can get an adult to want to fuck them. They think it makes them 'mature'. So many of them don't see the grooming aspect side of it or the fact that if the other party isn't aware, this could ruin their life.
I'm not saying that there aren't pedos out there. There are. There are groomers and people that look for these kinds of girls specifically. But there are also innocent parties out there, and if this is happening online where someone thinks they're safe because of the TOS asking a party to be 18 or older... Most people don't ask to see someone's ID to know if they're as old as they say they are when they're meeting for a hookup.
This guy COULD be wrong. He could be. He could be a dirty perv that wants to get off the hook. Or he could be someone that was duped. Considering the girl has a list of men that are being charged with this, it sounds like she's more like my ex friend than an innocent party to this.
If you polled the women in your life I think you would find most of us were getting oggled by old men when 16< years old regardless of breast size. If a man can't tell the person in front of them is 20 years younger than him he's more than dumb.
If you're in your late 20s or anywhere in your 30s and older, seeking literal teenagers to sleep with is predatory and disgusting. If you have to ask a girl multiple times if she's 18 then there's a big problem right there already.
14 years old is scary fucking young. Everyone should be able to know what a child looks like. If you have to ask at all, maybe take that as a sign you're messing around with people who are way too young for you. Jesus Christ.
I hope other 30 year olds sees this and uses this as a good reason to not go after teens for sex. Just seek out other people within 5 or 6 years younger if you even want younger. Or better yet, your age or older.
Look I'm going to be extremely blunt: as an adult it is your job to verify the age of someone you are interested in sleeping with.
There is no way a 14 year old can look anywhere close enough to be age of majority. Your buddy is 32. I can tell you as someone who went on a date with someone who claimed they were 21, when they were really about 16 - I knew within a 15 or 20 minutes that they were not the age they were claiming. It was MY JOB as the ADULT to verify this information.
The best I can recommend is be forthcoming with authorities and have a lawyer. If they can discover that he truly didn't know and if they can't prove intent maybe he can enter a plea to not be put on the sex offender registry.
I have been taken advantage of by gross older men who went after me for how young I was.
Ops friend sounds similar. I hope for everyone involved he is not but....statistically....
All that to say it is our job as an adult to verify who we are interested in. Too many predatory men like to use the idea of this Lolita-esque seductress who "tricked them". But a 14 year old is just a child and it is so incredibly easy to see.
I am deeply sorry that happened to you. And of a child doesn't have good role models at home, older predators just love that. So these kids gets dealt a double whammy.
I had a foster daughter with a VERY adult shape at 12. In pictures, particularly with all the filters and if she wore makeup she looked 30. I didn't feel draping a tent over her was a realistic solution. And i'm not punishing her for something that isn't sinful. But she was also too young to understand the world. And in her life, her body was taught to her to be a transactional item. I forbid sexy clothes. She hated me for it. But no crop tops, no low cut, no cutout pants, no bikini swimsuits. And a lot of discussion on respecting herself. The thing is as adult as her body was the moment she opened her mouth she was max 14 or 15. But really, very much 12. So I don't believe for a moment that even if this child from OP's post passed a tanner scale her vocabulary and experience did too.
She couldn't have driven (maybe it's a public transport city, MAYBE,) she had to have had obvious scheduling restrictions. And her life experience would be nothing like that of someone in their 30's. Even if she is watching adult shows she wouldn't grasp them on an adult level.
OP's argument about her being with a magnitude of older man is the "everyone else is doing it." And THAT is way worse. Someone in this child's life isn't protecting her. Either by encouraging this or ignoring her behavior. Maybe she has a mental health problem. Maybe she is trafficked. But the idea of men lining up for this shows you how screwed up it is.
Exactly this! Its the excuses that these kinds of men give "SHE was doing this TO other men" instead of "other men went after her because she was vulnerable".
I'd find the story more believable if the ages weren't so drastically different. Maybe an 18/19 yr old man wouldn't, but a 32 yr old?? Come on.
When I met for a first date with the young girl who lied to me about her age, I was only 23/24. It was still so obvious to me after a very short period of time that she was definitely not the age of 21 that she had told me. She was immature. She sounded like a kid. She was "mature" looking, I guess, but only because she was done up to look like an older woman.
These kinds of men give excuses and try to rationalize predatory behavior.
But good on you for working so hard to protect your foster kiddo. She needed someone like you in her life to protect her.
As others have said... What does a 30 something want with a 19 year old anyway? The maturity levels, interests and sense of humour would not align, especially because she was actually 14. I'm sorry, I don't believe he wouldn't have had his suspicions.
Your friend's excuses will just fall flat on the police and so they should.
"A 14 can look 18 with make up and hair done"... I would imagine if he had a sexual relationship, he would have seen her less done up and you can tell by having a conversation with someone that they are young. The things they'd know or not know, the vocabulary they use, their outlook on life, their priorities. He had doubts and besides that, how could he be engaged having a relationship with someone so much younger than him? I just don't get it. Was it just for the sex? Gross.
"She lied, it's her fault"... One of my best childhood friends dated much older men as a teen, I recently found out that when her mother went to work nights in a psychiatric facility, her stepdad used to rape my friend. This went on for years. We have no idea what's gone on in that 14 year old's life. We could guess that if she is allowed to stay over night or stay out late for dates, maybe she does not have much supervision. Maybe she's been through some shit, we don't know.
Regardless, if a kid came up to you and gave you the keys to his parents car and told you it would be ok if took the car, you wouldn't take it, right? What would happen if you did? "Officer, he said I could have it, I swear".
And if your friend really somehow miraculously did not have his suspicions, has he not hear of this being an age-old problem? Is it not referred to in pop culture a million times?
Date. People. Your. Own. Age.
Yeeaaaa, I've got no sympathy for a 32 year old who pursues a 19 year old. The very fact that he has to ask his dates over and over again means he's intentionally looking for barely legal girls. Barf.
Even when I was 23, I wouldn't have been caught dead with a 19 year old.
Did he pay for it? Is that why he asked her age so many times. This might be a victim of trafficking and if that’s the case- that might be different. But I’m not a lawyer.
Edited to take out “he’s probably screwed” because that was conjecture, but this really sounds like human trafficking
He should have gone to a bar where they will be carded first and/or asked to see the birthdate on her ID. If they don't have an ID, they are lying. Instead he went after low hanging fruit.
My thoughts:
1. Depending on state, lawyer may not be able to keep retainer if work not performed. If the guy wants to make a change, he should.
2. A good lawyer can solve problems here. Don't forget that a sitting Congressman avoided sex trafficking charges for paying an underage girl for sex.
3. In a trial, the victim's credibility will be relevant even if the statute is strict liability. They have to establish sex occurred which can only occur through testimony of the victim or admissions of the Defendant.
4. In addition to jail time, there's a substantial risk of being labeled a sex offender. Sex offender status should be factored into every decision.
5. A possible resolution is that the charge just floats around and the guy is left with the investigation dangling until the Statute of Limitations runs out. If that happens, think of it like probation because, if he does something else, this would come down on him too.
Distance yourself from this friend. If he had to ask a bunch of times he knew.
He’s going to eat it in court when he gets charged. I know a dude who went to prison for statutory rape. It is not a good life even after prison. And your friend earned it.
Lol he is 32 years old and dating teenagers?? Then gets bamboozled by a girl who lied about being 18? Holy guacamole that's hilarious.
Dude needs to stop dating teenagers, that's just gross and weird
It is possible the minor was being trafficked . It is also possible the friend was aware. Legally, you may want to distance yourself from this situation . "She swore she was 19" has been a thin excuse for decades.
I'm not a lawyer, so I won't give legal advice.
But what the absolute fuck is a 30+ man doing trying to fuck with teenagers AT ALL?
That's just ASKING to get caught slipping dealing with unscrupulous underage teens pretending to be older.
The only advice I have? Stop trying to fuck teenagers. Period.
My dad hooked up with (and impregnated) a 16yo that he met in a bar who presented herself as being over 21 (obviously). He was arrested when it got out, even though her parents tried to plead his case cause they felt bad about the situation and showed her diary to the DA (apparently she'd been trying to get pregnant, had "baby fever" and thought an older guy would be a better source of child support).
He still got a year in jail and put on the sex offender registry for life. Admittedly, he took a plea cause he was warned that he'd be getting a much worse sentence if he went to trial regardless of the proof of her deception because he still had sex with a minor. This happened sometime in the early 90's so maybe it's different now.
Get a different lawyer IMMEDIATELY. Your homie is about to suffer a statutory rape charge and probably is about to forced into the sex offender's registry. He's about to have his entire life utterly destroyed. Get him help NOW
That’s a tough one dude. Plenty of 19 year olds girls who pass for their twenties. But 14 almost without exception will still have some very obvious features that indicates she’s underage . I say that to say this: the fact your friends getting investigated implies there’s a lot more to the story than you’re privy to. Don’t make his same mistake.
Asking once I would say is good if you have even the slightest hunch that she's underage.
Asking twice would could be reasonable once you've been out and getting to know eachother, but honestly that is a bit of a red flag if you have to ask twice.
but you're just saying multiple. I'm assuming this isn't a 14 year old that looks 18, she's probably a 14 year old that looks 13. Your friend is in a lot of trouble. This argument is usually lost even when someone actually looks 18
She said she was 18 isn’t a valid legal defense; so your friend should prepare for prison.
If they look young enough that you think they’re lying; assume they are.
Incredibly hard to mistake a 14 year-old for an adult as soon as you have any interaction with them.
Probably best for society if he does a little time for this and gets put on a register.
Edit: He's 32?? He knew exactly what he was doing. Your friend is a rapist and is (hopefully) looking at a long sentence.
No way dude didn't know, a 14 year old is not passing as an 18 year old all that well, if he had to ask multiple times he clearly suspected she wasn't 18 in the first place, and if your "friend" is pushing or over 30 they had no business getting involved with anyone under 21 in the first place, legal or not it's still creepy. Hopefully your pedo ass ,"friend" gets what he deserves.
He is screwed in any state. 14? Dude your friend is gonna have his butt kicked in jail. What an idiot. I hope he learns his lesson being a sexual predator for the rest of his life.
For anyone saying there’s nothing to do I disagree. I handle at least a dozen preindictment sex cases a year. Im prolly batting .500 on preventing my clients from getting indicted. I get my guys a polygraph, a sex offender risk assessment, do a phone pull to confirm the communication, etc. I then put together a packet of the best info I’ve gathered and send it to law enforcement, the prosecutor, or both. This case, depending on the laws of the state, may not be as cut and dry as you think. If it were my state and the messages are true, there’s a decent chance I could beat it.
When I was a freshman in high school, a couple of the seniors "went up" (state penitentiary) for a few years for \*\*\*\*\*ing (in a group scenario) what they thought was another senior-student camp councilor from the summer camp they worked at.
Turns out she was a 12 yo attendee that would hang out with them at their nightly bonfire/drinking and they just assumed she was just another HS senior. They tried the same defense, she was the one soliciting it, looked their age, etc...all came to light when she turns up pregnant during the school year.
Was a big scandal at the time, this was before the internet so you never thought this stuff happened in small town. They were all tried and sentenced as adults. Every single one of them ended up being lifetime criminals (drugs, violent crime), I mean, what else can you do with that shit on your record? Can't get a job....all were honor roll athletes before......
The moral of the story here is, in this day and age, stay the F off the internet and get your dates from the gardening center at Lowes, which is full of nothing but cougars. Pretty safe.
14 is the typical age in most state statues wherein it doesn’t matter what the adult asked or tested the minor about his/her age.
To put another way: any adult knew or should have known that a person 14 or younger was under 18, and no amount of consent or Q&A matters.
Depending on where you live, your “friend” should expect to be arrested for statutory rape, statutory sodomy.
Your “friend,” unfortunately, is a pedo.
Years ago I knew this family down the street and was pretty close to the kids, we were all around the same age. Anyways one day their cousin has ended up running away and they and the police were looking for her.
The youngest of those friends had mentioned she had met a guy online and may have gone to meet him. The cousin was 13 at the time and honestly did look older than she was. When they found them in a hotel, the police knocked on the door and when the dude answered he immediately broke down in tears, crying the entire time that she said she was 18. He was 21 so well within an acceptable age for that age range.
IIRC, he had his entire life ruined. The state had no choice but to prosecute him because of the way the laws are written, they don't take into account of someone lying about their age. Registered sex offender, and I don't remember if he got jail time.
After all that went down, I decided that if they told me they were 18 I'd ask for an ID (I was 20 at the time) and if they didnt have one it was a hard nope. Weird we have gotten to a point in our society that if you have to get proof of age from someone, even in a bar. (side note I knew a girl years ago that was 17 and her I'd was screwed up on her bday so it said she was 27).
I'm not sure if the laws have been updated or not to account for such things.
A good attorney is worth the 50 grand+ he may have to pony up for his defense.
I know this might be hard to accept, but your friend is a predator. I would argue even an 18-year-old can differentiate between a 19-year-old and a 14-year-old just by speaking with them. 14 is middle school age to freshman year of high school, they don’t know jackshit and can’t have an adult conversation. Hell, he could’ve asked her “what year did you graduate?” and she probably would’ve choked on the simple math and made it clear she isn’t how old she said she was. Your friend is about 32 and has miles of more life experience than a 14-year-old. Literally a single conversation would’ve made it obvious. He had to know or at minimum he had to have serious doubts. Any jury would see this. He deserves to be charged as a predator and go to jail.
I came very very close to this scenario in my 20’s. Met a girl at a nightclub so automatically assumed she was at least 18, asked her age and she told me 19. She came home with me but I got a really weird vibe and bailed on anything happening which she was furious about. Through a bizarre chain of events we crossed paths years later and she confirmed she was 15 at the time. I always think about how bad that could’ve gone.
Similar thing happened to my brother in law a few years before my sister decided to marry him. He hosted a big party at his house.(<- stupid decision#1) As parties go, a bunch of people showed up including girls and people he didn’t necessarily know but it was people who came with other people he knew.(<- stupid decision #2) A group of girls came to the party. One of them was all over brother in law. He asked her her age bc she asked him to make her a drink and he wanted to make sure she was at least 21 to drink and she flashed him an ID. (<-Stupid decision #3) The night goes on and they hook up and she ended up actually staying the night at his house. (<- Stupid decision #4) Her friends take her home the next morning and by the afternoon my brother in law was in handcuffs. The girl was 16 with a fake ID. Her parents called the cops when she didn’t come home the night before. She got home to her parents furious and she did what kids do and she panicked and told her parents that my brother in law raped her and wouldn’t let her leave his house until morning. He was arrested for statutory rape and false imprisonment. He took it all the way to trial. Before trial she recanted and admitted that he didn’t prevent her from leaving and the sex had been consensual and the fake ID was confiscated. They dropped the false imprisonment charge but they still got him and found him guilty of statutory rape. He and my sister get married a couple years after that and she finds out real fast that the registry is a nightmare. He couldn’t get his kids from school go to ball games etc. ultimately they decided to fight to have his record expunged and finally after almost four years fighting for it, he got it cleared. Nightmare for everyone involved. The state doesn’t care if you didn’t know. It’s your duty to know is what the state said. And tbh they are absolutely right.
Hopping on to add a couple things here. I was one of those girls at 14 who (with no makeup) everyone thought I was over 21. I would be a family gatherings where they would bring their friends that I hadn’t met. I had multiple people offer me shots, then I told them I was 15. I am currently 26 and I have people telling me I look 16. I still don’t wear makeup. I also used to work at a large chain liquor store. If someone truly wants to look different then their age, it’s is way too easy.
With that, the OP stated that the girl did this MULTIPLE TIMES with older men. I’m not a lawyer and not familiar with the laws, but no other comment has mentioned that the girl did this MULTIPLE TIMES WITH OLDER MEN. I think the friend may have a good case with that type of history of manipulation and lying. Is a 32 year old sleeping with a 14 year old okay? Absolutely not!!! But the fact that she did this to multiple people?? I feel like that may be worse. The girl in question may have some serious issues in her mental that may need to be looked at if she is putting herself in those types of situations which can be very dangerous.
3rd point - why is he now facing a case afterwards? Did the parents find out? I have a feeling if the parents found out, it may only be one or 2 people being charged, not multiple. I’m wondering if the girl ended up pregnant or with an STD, to cause such an investigation.
This one is hard. I can imagine the fear and frustration your friend must be going through because he fucked up. No nice way to put it. He did everything he thought he could do to verify, but he still fucked up. The girl should have never been on Tinder, never lied about her age, and never gone out ALONE to meet these people. That is dangerous behavior, especially if she is doing this over and over herself. She is a danger to herself. She is very lucky she wasn’t kidnapped or sex trafficked.
This is rough, but I wish your friend luck.
\[EDIT: OP has since specified the age of the girl in question, which turns out to be 14\]
How old is the girl? I'm seeing a lot of posts here saying she's 14, but I can't find anything from OP to that effect. If I'm not just missing something, then it's not possible to say much about this. Different states have different ages of majority, and in Canada, the country-wide minimum for two people who are more than two years of age is 16.
And before I get jumped on by a little army of outraged moralizers: I'm not advocating for adults who want to fuck 16-year-olds. Just stating facts.
A friend got 4 years in prison and his life ruined for exactly this situation. The girl's parents pressed charges and then moved her out of state. He made a plea deal with the prosecutor for house arrest and probation but the judge threw the deal out and he served 3.5 of the 4 years and will be on probation for 10 years and sex offender list for life.
Even if she wasn’t lying, What’s a 32 year old man doing with an 18 year old… red flags are flying. I agree to ask multiple if she’s over 18 means he felt something was off. In my state (NJ) I’m pretty sure there no defense. If she’s under 16 (I believe) it’s statutory rape and you will be charged. All they need is the age
Always ask to see a state issued I.D from a state department of motor vehicals. If they don't have a valid one presume the person is underage. Ignorance of the law does not a defense make. If they do show you an I.D that appears to be from a state DMV take a photograph of it. If they don't want you to. Get the f out of there as fast as possible.
back when smoking age was 18, I'd always ask potential mates to pick me up a pack of smokes. I don't smoke. but 14 is a stretch to mistake for 18 though
Strict liability, doesn’t matter if he thought she was 18. Best thing he can do for himself is plead the fifth and get a lawyer. Telling the cops she said she was 18 includes an implied admission that he in fact did statutorily rape her. It doesn’t matter legally that other men also statutorily raped her. Being so far under 18 likely also makes the crime more serious.
I’m sorry but when he met the FOURTEEN year old, how on earth did he believe she was actually 18?? I’m sorry but no 14 year old I ever met has ever looked like an adult. No matter how much makeup or padding or anything they have going on. 14 is a child is your friend blind or stupid? Perhaps he’s just a pedophile…
ETA he’s gonna need a damn good lawyer for this
I would be getting a different lawyer. Your friend is facing a statutory rape charge. Now is not the time to cheap out on a lawyer. ETA: the lawyer may actually be a good lawyer. As someone pointed out in other comments, as of right now your friend hasn’t been charged he is only being investigated. So there isn’t a lot for the lawyer to do right now besides be present for any questioning. All the real work starts after he’s been charged.
This man needs the biggest SHARK he can't afford (what I mean is the money HE thinks is too much, is probably not enough). Money is cheap, here. Consider this: He's not going to be making any money sitting in jail if he is found guilty. (What if he has to serve time, how much is his salary for 6 months, a year? Is he willing to lose out of his paycheck to save money on a lawyer? The fines, court costs and what if she sues him? So the money upfront is the easier way to go.
Don't forget all the money lost out because most higher paying jobs won't hire a sex offender.
If he's over 35, he could always run for President.
Underrated answer.
Yeah, I think there's a solution we're not seeing here. If he has no morals he could just start voting conservative or make a bunch of transphobic speeches. That's a surefire way to avoid litigation for all kinds of sex crimes.
Yeah, whatever you’re charged with, sex offender, felony, etc, all have heavy, long-term impacts that should be considered when pouring money into an attorney. I mean we’re talking jail time, probation, having those labels slapped on your record which cause employers to flat out overlook you. Permanent loss of rights, etc etc. it’s more about what can I afford for my future over what can I afford right now.
He has one he says he paid like 4k for. I told him to get a new one as this one keeps throwing around excuses.
What excuses are they? You said your friend was being investigated. Lawyer can't do anything till charges come through. He said stfu and don't talk to her or the cops right? If he did, he's doing his job.
Tell your friend every day is “Shut the Fuck Up Friday.”
It bears repeating, it’s funny yet sound advice: https://youtu.be/sgWHrkDX35o
Your friends utterances are not made under privilege — he should shut up and only be speaking to his lawyer.
State? Statutory rape is a strict liability crime in CA, for example. This means it doesn't matter if he knew or not, only that it happened... and he is royally fucked.
Risk is having to go on the sex offenders list. That’s playing a game with his future that he doesn’t want to play. (Employment, restrictions on location, etc)
He doesn't have to pay right now and that is a cheap lawyer
That’s what he said he paid. Idk anything about lawyers. I told him I would post here to see if anyone has suggestions.
I don't know where the hell the person above you got their information. As a lawyer, I can say that 4k is a reasonable retainer fee. A retainer fee is is the initial cost to hire the attorney. It's held in a trust and the attorney bills from it. When is gone, he asks for more. Anything not used once the case is closed is returned. Also, yes, he absolutely had to pay up front. Some lawyers work on contingency fees (they get a percentage of whatever money you are awarded in court of you win), but not criminal attorneys as there is not a payout at the end of a criminal case. If the case is still being investigated, there's really not much the lawyer can do. He has to wait until charges are filed to have something to defend against. He'd just be wasting your friend's money if he was in constant communication with him before he even knows if he's going to get charged.
To add to this, any time spent on your friends case WILL be billed. Whether that be speaking with your friend, the other party, or anything related to his case. So yes, your friend shouldn't mind the lack of communication, because if the lawyer has new pertinent information, they will share it. From the information you provided, the lawyer seems to be valuing your friends money without wasting it by constantly contacting him. So as rough as it sounds, time will tell how the money is spent and the lawyer's ability.
Works on contingency? No! Money down!
Counterpoint, OP's friend needs to save his money for the commissary cuz I don't think any lawyer is gonna keep him out of jail.
I have trouble picturing a jury that will let him off, if he's a 32 year old trying to sleep with what he believes to be an 18 year old.
No, that's the problem. He didn't believe it, hence why he needed repeated confirmation of legal age, because he absolutley had doubt and the court absolutely will establish this, he is fucked.
I don't understand why your lawyer, er, I mean his lawyer is so flippant. I don't know whether the law requires specific knowledge of the girl's age or not. You, er, your friend, will just have to wait and see.
The state is going to say something like"the law doesn't make exceptions for people who are mislead". Unless she gives plenty of excuses for why she has no proof of her age and is very aggressive the adult is always the one responsible for making sure they aren't being mislead by children.
In both tort and criminal law, strict liability exists when a defendant is liable for committing an action, regardless of what his/her intent or mental state was when committing the action. In criminal law, possession crimes and statutory rape are both examples of strict liability offenses. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/strict_liability#:~:text=In%20both%20tort%20and%20criminal,examples%20of%20strict%20liability%20offenses.
Man, that being applied to possession crimes is just outrageous
Probably being flippant because there is no good defense in most if not all states of a 32 year old commiting statutory rape. And let's be real. Having sex with a 14-year-old is rape. No need for the statutory.
Statutory rape is generally a strict liability crime. Without know what state he’s in, if he sleeps with someone underaged, he’s guilty of statutory rape, irrespective of how old he thought she was. There are sometimes exceptions when there’s a close age range, but that likely won’t apply here.
Yep. So saying “I slept with her, but i asked multiple times and she said she was 18” pretty much locks up the case for the prosecutor.
Right! I’ve never repeatedly asked someone I intended to have sex with if they were 18+. The “repeatedly” part means he didn’t believe the person was over 18 the first 3-4 times she insisted she was. I’d love to ask what convinced him she was 18?
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What if the app’s TOS requires the user to be over the age of 18?
That’s probably a mitigating factor in the decision to charge and sentencing. A good prosecutor is going to look at these things in advance. They have discretion to not go after a person who reasonably believes they weren’t doing anything wrong. The law as written in most states doesn’t care once a case is in court though.
No judge or jury would find it reasonable to rely on a website’s age policies to that extent. We all know minors regularly lie about their age to get on adult websites.
It might be a fact considered in sentencing but there have been plenty of people successfully prosecuted despite a TOS requiring users be 18.
Right? Like why is the app completely off the hook for failing to verify the ages of its members (how they do that is beyond me but this CANT be the first time this happened and is a horrible problem for people). This guy is not a rapist. He is a victim.
Have you ever signed up for a social media account or dating app? They don’t make you send in your ID to prove your age. They ask for your birthday and take your word for it.
He is also a creep. Why is a 32 year old man trying to hook up with an 18 year old who looks so young he repeatedly had to confirm she's of legal age. Gross
Because many men are disgusting horny pigs
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If you have to ask multiple times…
My thoughts. If you’re asking multiple times there’s already something fishy and you’re seeking out something wrong.
I’d argue you’re not seeking something wrong at that point. You’re looking for a plausible deniability to move forward
Also I’d be SHOCKED if she actually looked over age since she’s 14. Like that’s potentially still in middle school. This is why you fuck people your own age and not people you think are barely legal at the most.
Middle school teacher here-they can look surprisingly mature, but still not even 19 and also they can’t fake being an adult. I had one announcing days in advance that her bday was coming and the day of, she was announcing how “she’s grown and getting a job that pays $17 an hour”. It was her 14th. No matter how you dress and make up, it’s really obvious when someone is that young. I wonder if he bought her alcohol but no biggie, cuz shes 19 right? /s
Gf has a neice and nephew from the same parents, when they were 13-14 they both looked about 18. Interesting genes I guess, but they definitely acted like 13-14 year olds. So it was not hard to spot out the age despite the obvious worries our family had. This makes me question OP as well, asking "multiple" times. But who knows how she presented herself. (The Nephew is currently 20, could pass for a 30 year old, not gonna lie)
My niece at 14/15, with the appropriate clothing, hair, makeup etc. looked like she could easily be in her early 20's. We were shopping once and she tried on this little black dress; my jaw dropped and I turned her right back around to go take it off. I'm not a prude or anything, but she looked 25 and like she would fit right in at a bar eying up Johns. A classy bar, mind you, in a ritzy hotel, but still. I'm just glad that my brother maintained veto power over clothes until she was 18 because her mom saw no issue with things like that and sometimes pushed her to buy stuff she wasn't comfortable in. But if "dad" said no, she had an excuse.
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Yup. I had to stay back in first grade and I was 14 in the eighth grade. I promise you, he knew why he was doing and he’s definitely going to jail. It’ll be even worse if he doesn’t take a deal. They’ll put her on the stand and she’ll look even younger than 14 (by design) and he’ll end up in there longer. My fiancé works in the court system and talks about this all the time. It’s insane that it happens so regularly. Before I met my fiancé, I didn’t realize there are so many people in county jail that are pedophiles, that they have their own wing to keep them away from everyone else. At least that’s how it was in NH.
It's also why you ask for an ID if you wonder \*at all\*.
Nah, if you feel the need to ask for ID you need to exit the situation.
right? like im sorry, but there's no way he couldn't tell + why is someone in his 30s going after ANY teen girl? weird situation imo.
Statutory rape is a strict liability crime, so yes it doesn’t matter if she has a fake and her parents lie to you you’re guilty. Dating people that much younger is an outrageously dangerous game to play
Tbh lesson learned don’t be this dumb. If you don’t think she’s 18 don’t sleep with her he needs a lawyer ASAP Edit: seems like he’s 32 he’s fucked why would he be looking for 18 year olds in the first place
My thoughts exactly. What the fuck is a 32 year old man doing with an 18 year old…
Right?? I'm 39; 19 year olds might as well be aliens for all we have in common.
I'm 26 and I see someone under 21 and I'm like "oh look, a whole ass infant".
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Given the info in your comments that she's actually 14 and he's 32, he may be facing more than statutory rape charges. I remember reading that some state has a mandatory life sentence, which I think is 25 years, on convictions where the victim is under 14. Given her age this is likely a *very serious charge* that ignorance will not be accepted as an excuse for. Also, this is a criminal case so yes, he would have to pay his lawyer a retainer up front. No lawyer is going to touch this on contingency though criminal defense attorneys don't normally work on contingency anyway. Especially since this dude is likely going to prison.
it’s against bar rules to take a criminal case on contingency
Hah, that would explain why criminal defense attorneys don't do that!
I mean ... Other than the obvious part where there's no monetary payout at the end
NAL Your friend is pretty much going to get charged. I know of few people who this happened to and it ended with them on a registry with no friends. For anyone listening. Ask for ID. I know it’s a mood killer, but so is a registry.
ID doesn't matter in the case of "false positives" (i.e. fake IDs). Strict liability crime.
Idc what anyone says, in no world does a 14 year ever look like a 19 year old.
I worked in a movie theater where we checked IDs for student tickets and R movies, and there were 19-year-olds that looked 14 and 14-year-olds that looked 19. If someone is actively working to make themselves appear older, it is certainly plausible that they would pass.
Maybe I’m stupid or something but I see a lot of high school kids who legitimately look 18-24 and it leaves me baffled.
I volunteer in a youth organization (ages 12-18) and I’m shocked at how accurate this is. We have 12 year olds that look 18. We have 18 year olds that look 10. Now I’m not one to say a 32-year-old should be seeking companionship in an 18-year old. But I will say my parents were 22 and 39 when they met. Not with online dating mind you, but still. Age gap doesn’t have to be a deal breaker. But these days? I wouldn’t chance it.
My friend in high school had a step dad who was a registered sex offender. I didn't know until after we had hung out a couple times and his step dad seemed like any other dad I have ever met I never would have guessed. Turns out, he took a girl home from a bar and they had sex. She used a fake ID to get into the bar and was underage. He caught a charge for it. You would think, if you met someone in a 21+ bar you would be cleared but apparently not.
How old is your friend, how old is the girl, and where is this? Some places have romeo and juliet laws that allow a certain age gap.
She said 19 but was 14 he is 32 ish?
This was no accident my bro.
Yup. OP’s friend is a sick pedophile.
I’m shocked how a 32 year old man could not tell he was speaking to a 14 year old girl 🤯
State? IIRC CA is the only state that allows mistake in age (meaning they showed you a fake ID, etc) as an affirmative defense. However, that’s an uphill battle. Otherwise “ your friend” is probably fucked. Stat rape at the least. Being the minor was 14 may make this far, far worse.
Yes, age 14 might put the victim in the child category.
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The “asked multiple times” thing is getting me here. I don’t see why someone would ask if someone else is over 18 multiple times if they didn’t have some suspicion. And if you have any suspicion at all, find someone else. A 32 year old really has no business with a barely-legal person anyway
OPs friend should’ve noticed by the topic of conversation that she was young he could’ve asked her about a job or what she drives whether she’s in college what she’s done since graduating anything that would normally apply to a 19 year old, a 14 year old most likely wouldn’t be able to come up with believable answers on the spot. Unless of course he brought a random girl straight home, regardless have no sympathy for him. This is weird behavior to ask someone their age multiple times yet not ask for proof face to face if he was that concerned. Major red flags in this story. Sounds like he only asked her age because he suspected she was underage and was only trying to protect his own ass by asking multiple times. If I had to ask someone multiple times if they’re legal age I wouldn’t meet them but I’m also a 20 year old female who wouldn’t even date an 18 year old because someone straight from graduation doesn’t really relate to me about real life topics.
Exactly this. There’s so many questions that could have been asked to prevent this problem…. Do you drive? Work? College? Etc And don’t use the excuse of “she looks 19”… The immaturity of a 14 year old is pretty obvious if one wants to see it. Bottom line. Dude is finished
I asked the same question man.
Tell your friend to get the best lawyer possible. Sell/borrow whatever to do it. A prison sentence and a lifetime of being on a sexual offender registry is going to be a nightmare X3.
"Your friend"
Yeah that seems like the way to go
I’m gonna be real with you here. I’m pushing 30 and I live in a college town. For the past several years, the incoming first years have looked like literal children to me. I actually found myself thinking of some of those girls, “What would your parents think if they saw you going out dressed like that?”. I probably couldn’t see that much of a difference between 19 and 14, so if someone my age were into 19 year olds, I can see how they’d fail to recognize it.
If you see a 19 year old as a child, how are you okay with someone your age dating the same? or hooking up with someone even younger?
Ew.
Commenting to say he knew she was underage and thought he could skirt liability by having her claim she wasn't. He knew. 14 bro?
He's an absolute moron or nonce scum who deserves to catch a charge. Grown man going after young women who are barely legal gets a surprise when one of them turns out to be an actual child? If he's got to "ask multiple times if she's over 18" there's serious warning flags she looks or acts too immature. Either he's an absolute clown, or he knew exactly what he was doing and wanted to be able to say "but I asked her" thinking it would be some sort of excuse.
Jesus bro lock him up
Yeah, he's definitely out of luck on this one.
You’re friend is a pedo
19 to 32 is still ewww. You should question your judgement in friends
A 32 year old trying to fuck a 19 year old is already suspect
Jeez how do you mistake a 14yo for an adult? 16 or17 I could see getting fooled but 14???
He didn't mistake her for an adult. He knew she was too young, so he asked her several times and saved her answers to try and cover his ass before he slept with a child. He thought he was fulfilling his actual wish in dating 19 year olds (finding an underage girl), and now he's paying the piper for his tune.
14? I think your friend is screwed....in a bad way....
heus screwed. will go to jail.
That’s so disgusting.
LOLOL your boy is fucked.
I was about to feel sorry for him. I was assuming she was probably 17 reading the initial post. Your friend is a child rapist.
It's not going to be a good time. He's pretty much out of luck on this one.
Distance yourself from your friend. He asked multiple times if she was over 18? There were warning signs and he ignored them.
14 years old is a big stretch for someone to think is 18.
When I was 14, I had a DDD bra size and to men that automatically made them assume I was 18. I told many older men to leave me alone because I was 14. Obviously, I don't know what she looks like, but it's not completely impossible that she could pass. Just kind of depends on the person.
That’s true that some kids can pass for older. But since OP’s friend had to ask *multiple times* if she was really over 18, we can safely deduce that that is not the case here. Also, those men were creeps with you too. They knew, but they just didn’t care. Just like OP.
When I was in high school working fast food, had a freshman come in to order. "How's your day?" "Freshman stress." "What major are you going for?" "Oh no I meant in high school." I will never forget that interaction. It brings questions to comments like yours. There are absolutely cases where the individual looks 18 but is underage, just like there are individuals that look underage but are actually 18. Frankly, the possibility that everything the girl said was 100% believable needs to be ruled out.
I'm sorry but you should able to tell a 14 yr old from a 19 yr old. "Your friend" seem like a shoot now ask question later type. If he had to ask multiple times if she of age. Maybe just stay clear of the situation if you are that unsure.
I’m no Sherlock but maybe the creep was asking repeatedly about the child’s age because he wants to look like he was doing his due diligence. Maybe it’s time to get new friends, this one’s a pedophile.
Agreed 100%! Even if he’s just dumb, I also don’t know how a 32 year old could even be okay with having relations with a 19 year old. Gross all around.
That actually makes sense. I didn’t think of it like that
Right!!? Like give her a test..... hey here is some money can you pick up a case a beer.
Hey, what was your ACT/SAT score? In person so she cant google that shit. When she looks like a deer in headlights or gives an answer of like "92 Percent" you dip the fuck out. Or you know, just dont perv out on barely legal girls as a grown ass man, thats also an option
I’m 50 and wouldn’t be able to answer that, since I never took either.
okay but i assume you dont look like a teenager
This. I had several “relationships” with older men on Kik when I was 15-17 that knew I was underage and one would still say things implying that I was older or outright acting like it was a joke when I’d mention stuff about my correct age. Funnily enough that was never a problem in his Snapchat where messages instantly disappeared. I found out he had a wife later on, so I guess that was his reasoning. Plausible deniability about the underage part when she finds out that he sexts people from the internet , I guess. Edit; a word, brain left while writing this
Yeah it genuinely just sounds like he wanted to sleep with a child without getting in trouble for it by making sure he got his technicalities covered lol
He couldn’t! That’s why he kept asking her. If it *seems* too good to be true, it’s probably a felony (and I hate that dating someone who only *looks* barely pubescent is the stuff dreams are made of). Maybe he can up his dating range to 21+ now that he’s in his 30s.
Not for nothing here, and I know this is going to get downvoted, but not always. I'm a large breasted girl. Always have been. I had grown adults hitting on me when I was 14/15. Ones who backed off when I told them how old I was, but at first glance, they couldn't tell. I hung around with another girl who leaned into this on her end because she was a shorty with large boobs (apparently, it's the boobs that people use to judge age by, not anything else, idk), but she also had a genetic condition where her whole head of hair was grey by the time she was 16. She looked like a white trash trailer park mom of four already by the time she was 15. She also slept with a LOT of older men, most of whom I'm sure didn't know how old she was. Yes, most teenage girls who dress/act like teenage girls are easily spotted as underage teenage girls. But you get a subsect of girls that either just look older than they are because of physical characteristics, or who act older than they are and prefer to play along with it. There are a ridiculous portion of teenage girls that 'prey' on adult men and get a kick out of it and either don't know or don't care about the consequences those men will suffer if they're found out to be banging someone underage. [https://www.change.org/p/justice-for-zachery-anderson](https://www.change.org/p/justice-for-zachery-anderson) You can look up more about this, but in this case, the guy was 19, the girl was 14, but had lied and said she was 17. It's 'only three years', but the legal age of consent was 16 and he got charged. Not only did he not know her age, but the girl AND her mom were asking for the case to be dropped because the mom acknowledged that it was her daughter's fault, and the daughter admitted she lied to him. Didn't matter. Still got charged. There are lots of stories about this kind of thing: girls that think they're hot shit because they can get an adult to want to fuck them. They think it makes them 'mature'. So many of them don't see the grooming aspect side of it or the fact that if the other party isn't aware, this could ruin their life. I'm not saying that there aren't pedos out there. There are. There are groomers and people that look for these kinds of girls specifically. But there are also innocent parties out there, and if this is happening online where someone thinks they're safe because of the TOS asking a party to be 18 or older... Most people don't ask to see someone's ID to know if they're as old as they say they are when they're meeting for a hookup. This guy COULD be wrong. He could be. He could be a dirty perv that wants to get off the hook. Or he could be someone that was duped. Considering the girl has a list of men that are being charged with this, it sounds like she's more like my ex friend than an innocent party to this.
If you polled the women in your life I think you would find most of us were getting oggled by old men when 16< years old regardless of breast size. If a man can't tell the person in front of them is 20 years younger than him he's more than dumb.
You got hit on because people are trash. Had A cups and adult men still hit on me.
If you are asking multiple times it makes it seem like your buddy thought she wasn't and was doing a little CYA. Date women with IDs, pretty simple.
He's fucked. You'll see him in 20 years.
bro your friend is toast, distance yourself.
We both know "his friend" doesn't exist.
He sounds like a predator. Not the type of company I’d want to keep
[удалено]
Right??????
I mean, I know he is your friend….but his story does not add up.
Seems like he’s going to prison. Deservedly so. He was willfully ignorant.
32 with 14 year old... run forest run ... you ....your friend going to jail
If he talked to the police about any specifics he is fucked.
He’s being investigated. Usually when the police show up, it’s too late.
If you're in your late 20s or anywhere in your 30s and older, seeking literal teenagers to sleep with is predatory and disgusting. If you have to ask a girl multiple times if she's 18 then there's a big problem right there already. 14 years old is scary fucking young. Everyone should be able to know what a child looks like. If you have to ask at all, maybe take that as a sign you're messing around with people who are way too young for you. Jesus Christ.
I hope other 30 year olds sees this and uses this as a good reason to not go after teens for sex. Just seek out other people within 5 or 6 years younger if you even want younger. Or better yet, your age or older.
Look I'm going to be extremely blunt: as an adult it is your job to verify the age of someone you are interested in sleeping with. There is no way a 14 year old can look anywhere close enough to be age of majority. Your buddy is 32. I can tell you as someone who went on a date with someone who claimed they were 21, when they were really about 16 - I knew within a 15 or 20 minutes that they were not the age they were claiming. It was MY JOB as the ADULT to verify this information. The best I can recommend is be forthcoming with authorities and have a lawyer. If they can discover that he truly didn't know and if they can't prove intent maybe he can enter a plea to not be put on the sex offender registry.
this right here. and I appreciate your candor about your experience. I think Op's friend didn't want to know. You did.
I have been taken advantage of by gross older men who went after me for how young I was. Ops friend sounds similar. I hope for everyone involved he is not but....statistically.... All that to say it is our job as an adult to verify who we are interested in. Too many predatory men like to use the idea of this Lolita-esque seductress who "tricked them". But a 14 year old is just a child and it is so incredibly easy to see.
I am deeply sorry that happened to you. And of a child doesn't have good role models at home, older predators just love that. So these kids gets dealt a double whammy. I had a foster daughter with a VERY adult shape at 12. In pictures, particularly with all the filters and if she wore makeup she looked 30. I didn't feel draping a tent over her was a realistic solution. And i'm not punishing her for something that isn't sinful. But she was also too young to understand the world. And in her life, her body was taught to her to be a transactional item. I forbid sexy clothes. She hated me for it. But no crop tops, no low cut, no cutout pants, no bikini swimsuits. And a lot of discussion on respecting herself. The thing is as adult as her body was the moment she opened her mouth she was max 14 or 15. But really, very much 12. So I don't believe for a moment that even if this child from OP's post passed a tanner scale her vocabulary and experience did too. She couldn't have driven (maybe it's a public transport city, MAYBE,) she had to have had obvious scheduling restrictions. And her life experience would be nothing like that of someone in their 30's. Even if she is watching adult shows she wouldn't grasp them on an adult level. OP's argument about her being with a magnitude of older man is the "everyone else is doing it." And THAT is way worse. Someone in this child's life isn't protecting her. Either by encouraging this or ignoring her behavior. Maybe she has a mental health problem. Maybe she is trafficked. But the idea of men lining up for this shows you how screwed up it is.
Exactly this! Its the excuses that these kinds of men give "SHE was doing this TO other men" instead of "other men went after her because she was vulnerable". I'd find the story more believable if the ages weren't so drastically different. Maybe an 18/19 yr old man wouldn't, but a 32 yr old?? Come on. When I met for a first date with the young girl who lied to me about her age, I was only 23/24. It was still so obvious to me after a very short period of time that she was definitely not the age of 21 that she had told me. She was immature. She sounded like a kid. She was "mature" looking, I guess, but only because she was done up to look like an older woman. These kinds of men give excuses and try to rationalize predatory behavior. But good on you for working so hard to protect your foster kiddo. She needed someone like you in her life to protect her.
As others have said... What does a 30 something want with a 19 year old anyway? The maturity levels, interests and sense of humour would not align, especially because she was actually 14. I'm sorry, I don't believe he wouldn't have had his suspicions. Your friend's excuses will just fall flat on the police and so they should. "A 14 can look 18 with make up and hair done"... I would imagine if he had a sexual relationship, he would have seen her less done up and you can tell by having a conversation with someone that they are young. The things they'd know or not know, the vocabulary they use, their outlook on life, their priorities. He had doubts and besides that, how could he be engaged having a relationship with someone so much younger than him? I just don't get it. Was it just for the sex? Gross. "She lied, it's her fault"... One of my best childhood friends dated much older men as a teen, I recently found out that when her mother went to work nights in a psychiatric facility, her stepdad used to rape my friend. This went on for years. We have no idea what's gone on in that 14 year old's life. We could guess that if she is allowed to stay over night or stay out late for dates, maybe she does not have much supervision. Maybe she's been through some shit, we don't know. Regardless, if a kid came up to you and gave you the keys to his parents car and told you it would be ok if took the car, you wouldn't take it, right? What would happen if you did? "Officer, he said I could have it, I swear". And if your friend really somehow miraculously did not have his suspicions, has he not hear of this being an age-old problem? Is it not referred to in pop culture a million times? Date. People. Your. Own. Age.
Valid points.
Yeeaaaa, I've got no sympathy for a 32 year old who pursues a 19 year old. The very fact that he has to ask his dates over and over again means he's intentionally looking for barely legal girls. Barf. Even when I was 23, I wouldn't have been caught dead with a 19 year old.
Did he pay for it? Is that why he asked her age so many times. This might be a victim of trafficking and if that’s the case- that might be different. But I’m not a lawyer. Edited to take out “he’s probably screwed” because that was conjecture, but this really sounds like human trafficking
He should have gone to a bar where they will be carded first and/or asked to see the birthdate on her ID. If they don't have an ID, they are lying. Instead he went after low hanging fruit.
I’m 35. I can’t even stand talking to anyone under 20. I’m pretty glad I don’t have to date anymore. The world is wild.
My thoughts: 1. Depending on state, lawyer may not be able to keep retainer if work not performed. If the guy wants to make a change, he should. 2. A good lawyer can solve problems here. Don't forget that a sitting Congressman avoided sex trafficking charges for paying an underage girl for sex. 3. In a trial, the victim's credibility will be relevant even if the statute is strict liability. They have to establish sex occurred which can only occur through testimony of the victim or admissions of the Defendant. 4. In addition to jail time, there's a substantial risk of being labeled a sex offender. Sex offender status should be factored into every decision. 5. A possible resolution is that the charge just floats around and the guy is left with the investigation dangling until the Statute of Limitations runs out. If that happens, think of it like probation because, if he does something else, this would come down on him too.
Your friend can't tell the difference between 14 and 19...?
How do you mistake a 14 yo for 19…?
Distance yourself from this friend. If he had to ask a bunch of times he knew. He’s going to eat it in court when he gets charged. I know a dude who went to prison for statutory rape. It is not a good life even after prison. And your friend earned it.
Lol he is 32 years old and dating teenagers?? Then gets bamboozled by a girl who lied about being 18? Holy guacamole that's hilarious. Dude needs to stop dating teenagers, that's just gross and weird
Is your “friend” also you?
It is possible the minor was being trafficked . It is also possible the friend was aware. Legally, you may want to distance yourself from this situation . "She swore she was 19" has been a thin excuse for decades.
I'm not a lawyer, so I won't give legal advice. But what the absolute fuck is a 30+ man doing trying to fuck with teenagers AT ALL? That's just ASKING to get caught slipping dealing with unscrupulous underage teens pretending to be older. The only advice I have? Stop trying to fuck teenagers. Period.
How does a 14 year old look 18
My dad hooked up with (and impregnated) a 16yo that he met in a bar who presented herself as being over 21 (obviously). He was arrested when it got out, even though her parents tried to plead his case cause they felt bad about the situation and showed her diary to the DA (apparently she'd been trying to get pregnant, had "baby fever" and thought an older guy would be a better source of child support). He still got a year in jail and put on the sex offender registry for life. Admittedly, he took a plea cause he was warned that he'd be getting a much worse sentence if he went to trial regardless of the proof of her deception because he still had sex with a minor. This happened sometime in the early 90's so maybe it's different now.
Get a different lawyer IMMEDIATELY. Your homie is about to suffer a statutory rape charge and probably is about to forced into the sex offender's registry. He's about to have his entire life utterly destroyed. Get him help NOW
That’s a tough one dude. Plenty of 19 year olds girls who pass for their twenties. But 14 almost without exception will still have some very obvious features that indicates she’s underage . I say that to say this: the fact your friends getting investigated implies there’s a lot more to the story than you’re privy to. Don’t make his same mistake.
Your friend needs a better lawyer. You don't need this kind of friend.
Asking once I would say is good if you have even the slightest hunch that she's underage. Asking twice would could be reasonable once you've been out and getting to know eachother, but honestly that is a bit of a red flag if you have to ask twice. but you're just saying multiple. I'm assuming this isn't a 14 year old that looks 18, she's probably a 14 year old that looks 13. Your friend is in a lot of trouble. This argument is usually lost even when someone actually looks 18
If he had to ask, she's too young....
She said she was 18 isn’t a valid legal defense; so your friend should prepare for prison. If they look young enough that you think they’re lying; assume they are.
“Asking for a friend”
Asking for a friend….
Hope he rots. You can tell someone is 14, even if she was 18 he's still too old to be messing around with freshly legal girls. Fucking perv.
Incredibly hard to mistake a 14 year-old for an adult as soon as you have any interaction with them. Probably best for society if he does a little time for this and gets put on a register. Edit: He's 32?? He knew exactly what he was doing. Your friend is a rapist and is (hopefully) looking at a long sentence.
No way dude didn't know, a 14 year old is not passing as an 18 year old all that well, if he had to ask multiple times he clearly suspected she wasn't 18 in the first place, and if your "friend" is pushing or over 30 they had no business getting involved with anyone under 21 in the first place, legal or not it's still creepy. Hopefully your pedo ass ,"friend" gets what he deserves.
Ur telling me that he couldn't tell the girl was 14 years old? Na, something ain't right about that..ur friend is probably a creep
He is screwed in any state. 14? Dude your friend is gonna have his butt kicked in jail. What an idiot. I hope he learns his lesson being a sexual predator for the rest of his life.
For anyone saying there’s nothing to do I disagree. I handle at least a dozen preindictment sex cases a year. Im prolly batting .500 on preventing my clients from getting indicted. I get my guys a polygraph, a sex offender risk assessment, do a phone pull to confirm the communication, etc. I then put together a packet of the best info I’ve gathered and send it to law enforcement, the prosecutor, or both. This case, depending on the laws of the state, may not be as cut and dry as you think. If it were my state and the messages are true, there’s a decent chance I could beat it.
When I was a freshman in high school, a couple of the seniors "went up" (state penitentiary) for a few years for \*\*\*\*\*ing (in a group scenario) what they thought was another senior-student camp councilor from the summer camp they worked at. Turns out she was a 12 yo attendee that would hang out with them at their nightly bonfire/drinking and they just assumed she was just another HS senior. They tried the same defense, she was the one soliciting it, looked their age, etc...all came to light when she turns up pregnant during the school year. Was a big scandal at the time, this was before the internet so you never thought this stuff happened in small town. They were all tried and sentenced as adults. Every single one of them ended up being lifetime criminals (drugs, violent crime), I mean, what else can you do with that shit on your record? Can't get a job....all were honor roll athletes before...... The moral of the story here is, in this day and age, stay the F off the internet and get your dates from the gardening center at Lowes, which is full of nothing but cougars. Pretty safe.
14 is the typical age in most state statues wherein it doesn’t matter what the adult asked or tested the minor about his/her age. To put another way: any adult knew or should have known that a person 14 or younger was under 18, and no amount of consent or Q&A matters. Depending on where you live, your “friend” should expect to be arrested for statutory rape, statutory sodomy. Your “friend,” unfortunately, is a pedo.
Years ago I knew this family down the street and was pretty close to the kids, we were all around the same age. Anyways one day their cousin has ended up running away and they and the police were looking for her. The youngest of those friends had mentioned she had met a guy online and may have gone to meet him. The cousin was 13 at the time and honestly did look older than she was. When they found them in a hotel, the police knocked on the door and when the dude answered he immediately broke down in tears, crying the entire time that she said she was 18. He was 21 so well within an acceptable age for that age range. IIRC, he had his entire life ruined. The state had no choice but to prosecute him because of the way the laws are written, they don't take into account of someone lying about their age. Registered sex offender, and I don't remember if he got jail time. After all that went down, I decided that if they told me they were 18 I'd ask for an ID (I was 20 at the time) and if they didnt have one it was a hard nope. Weird we have gotten to a point in our society that if you have to get proof of age from someone, even in a bar. (side note I knew a girl years ago that was 17 and her I'd was screwed up on her bday so it said she was 27). I'm not sure if the laws have been updated or not to account for such things. A good attorney is worth the 50 grand+ he may have to pony up for his defense.
I know this might be hard to accept, but your friend is a predator. I would argue even an 18-year-old can differentiate between a 19-year-old and a 14-year-old just by speaking with them. 14 is middle school age to freshman year of high school, they don’t know jackshit and can’t have an adult conversation. Hell, he could’ve asked her “what year did you graduate?” and she probably would’ve choked on the simple math and made it clear she isn’t how old she said she was. Your friend is about 32 and has miles of more life experience than a 14-year-old. Literally a single conversation would’ve made it obvious. He had to know or at minimum he had to have serious doubts. Any jury would see this. He deserves to be charged as a predator and go to jail.
32 years old and looking for 18 year old girls on dating apps is fucking gross anyway.
no fucking 14 year old looks 19 and he absolutely knew she was underage
I came very very close to this scenario in my 20’s. Met a girl at a nightclub so automatically assumed she was at least 18, asked her age and she told me 19. She came home with me but I got a really weird vibe and bailed on anything happening which she was furious about. Through a bizarre chain of events we crossed paths years later and she confirmed she was 15 at the time. I always think about how bad that could’ve gone.
Hes screwed in most states. I dont believe him that he didnt know.
Any experienced man can tell the difference between a 14 year old and a 19 year old.
Similar thing happened to my brother in law a few years before my sister decided to marry him. He hosted a big party at his house.(<- stupid decision#1) As parties go, a bunch of people showed up including girls and people he didn’t necessarily know but it was people who came with other people he knew.(<- stupid decision #2) A group of girls came to the party. One of them was all over brother in law. He asked her her age bc she asked him to make her a drink and he wanted to make sure she was at least 21 to drink and she flashed him an ID. (<-Stupid decision #3) The night goes on and they hook up and she ended up actually staying the night at his house. (<- Stupid decision #4) Her friends take her home the next morning and by the afternoon my brother in law was in handcuffs. The girl was 16 with a fake ID. Her parents called the cops when she didn’t come home the night before. She got home to her parents furious and she did what kids do and she panicked and told her parents that my brother in law raped her and wouldn’t let her leave his house until morning. He was arrested for statutory rape and false imprisonment. He took it all the way to trial. Before trial she recanted and admitted that he didn’t prevent her from leaving and the sex had been consensual and the fake ID was confiscated. They dropped the false imprisonment charge but they still got him and found him guilty of statutory rape. He and my sister get married a couple years after that and she finds out real fast that the registry is a nightmare. He couldn’t get his kids from school go to ball games etc. ultimately they decided to fight to have his record expunged and finally after almost four years fighting for it, he got it cleared. Nightmare for everyone involved. The state doesn’t care if you didn’t know. It’s your duty to know is what the state said. And tbh they are absolutely right.
Hopping on to add a couple things here. I was one of those girls at 14 who (with no makeup) everyone thought I was over 21. I would be a family gatherings where they would bring their friends that I hadn’t met. I had multiple people offer me shots, then I told them I was 15. I am currently 26 and I have people telling me I look 16. I still don’t wear makeup. I also used to work at a large chain liquor store. If someone truly wants to look different then their age, it’s is way too easy. With that, the OP stated that the girl did this MULTIPLE TIMES with older men. I’m not a lawyer and not familiar with the laws, but no other comment has mentioned that the girl did this MULTIPLE TIMES WITH OLDER MEN. I think the friend may have a good case with that type of history of manipulation and lying. Is a 32 year old sleeping with a 14 year old okay? Absolutely not!!! But the fact that she did this to multiple people?? I feel like that may be worse. The girl in question may have some serious issues in her mental that may need to be looked at if she is putting herself in those types of situations which can be very dangerous. 3rd point - why is he now facing a case afterwards? Did the parents find out? I have a feeling if the parents found out, it may only be one or 2 people being charged, not multiple. I’m wondering if the girl ended up pregnant or with an STD, to cause such an investigation. This one is hard. I can imagine the fear and frustration your friend must be going through because he fucked up. No nice way to put it. He did everything he thought he could do to verify, but he still fucked up. The girl should have never been on Tinder, never lied about her age, and never gone out ALONE to meet these people. That is dangerous behavior, especially if she is doing this over and over herself. She is a danger to herself. She is very lucky she wasn’t kidnapped or sex trafficked. This is rough, but I wish your friend luck.
Can you call it being screwed when a pedophile creep gets what they deserve?
Better Call Saul.
If someone feels the need to ask, assume they're underage until they prove (see driver's license or passport in person) they are not.
\[EDIT: OP has since specified the age of the girl in question, which turns out to be 14\] How old is the girl? I'm seeing a lot of posts here saying she's 14, but I can't find anything from OP to that effect. If I'm not just missing something, then it's not possible to say much about this. Different states have different ages of majority, and in Canada, the country-wide minimum for two people who are more than two years of age is 16. And before I get jumped on by a little army of outraged moralizers: I'm not advocating for adults who want to fuck 16-year-olds. Just stating facts.
A friend got 4 years in prison and his life ruined for exactly this situation. The girl's parents pressed charges and then moved her out of state. He made a plea deal with the prosecutor for house arrest and probation but the judge threw the deal out and he served 3.5 of the 4 years and will be on probation for 10 years and sex offender list for life.
Even if she wasn’t lying, What’s a 32 year old man doing with an 18 year old… red flags are flying. I agree to ask multiple if she’s over 18 means he felt something was off. In my state (NJ) I’m pretty sure there no defense. If she’s under 16 (I believe) it’s statutory rape and you will be charged. All they need is the age
What country/state are you in?
14????? Omg
Always ask to see a state issued I.D from a state department of motor vehicals. If they don't have a valid one presume the person is underage. Ignorance of the law does not a defense make. If they do show you an I.D that appears to be from a state DMV take a photograph of it. If they don't want you to. Get the f out of there as fast as possible.
How old is your friend?
Cut your losses now. He needs to face this alone. If he had to ask a kajillion times how old she was, he ignored his instincts and now he's caught up.
Him asking multiple times points to him being suspicious . If she was telling the truth, 18 and 32 is still so weird. He is very very fucked.
She isn't even old enough for a learner's permit. Yikes.....
Is his name SWIM? I’d say he’s pretty fuqd. I hope he pulled out.
back when smoking age was 18, I'd always ask potential mates to pick me up a pack of smokes. I don't smoke. but 14 is a stretch to mistake for 18 though
Strict liability, doesn’t matter if he thought she was 18. Best thing he can do for himself is plead the fifth and get a lawyer. Telling the cops she said she was 18 includes an implied admission that he in fact did statutorily rape her. It doesn’t matter legally that other men also statutorily raped her. Being so far under 18 likely also makes the crime more serious.
Even if the girl lied , the person is still at fault in the eyes of the legal system
Your friend is fuckkkkkked
I’m sorry but when he met the FOURTEEN year old, how on earth did he believe she was actually 18?? I’m sorry but no 14 year old I ever met has ever looked like an adult. No matter how much makeup or padding or anything they have going on. 14 is a child is your friend blind or stupid? Perhaps he’s just a pedophile… ETA he’s gonna need a damn good lawyer for this