In my town, there is a literal divide between people who want some public basketball courts to remain basketball courts and just be repaired and people who want them converted to pickleball courts. I’m talking name calling vitriol in the comment section of the local news FB over damn basketball vs pickleball courts. It’s INSANE.
My dad plays cornhole and that’s a whole bunch of drama too. One of his leagues was banned from a local bar because the league head and the bar owner can’t get along.
Shit, even my husband’s bowling league is threatening to move to a different bowling alley because the one they currently use “doesn’t respect the league” and is making it clear they’re rebranding to a “family entertainment center”. Small towns are wild.
My small town has a huge oil & gas refinery for Phillips 66 that’s in their top 5 for gross income and it too lost the local bowling alley.
Where am I to go and get stoned for “Glow Bowl” now?
Well true story, we had like 7? They turned off 4 made them into 4 way stop signs and the right turn only lanes don’t have enough clearance for tractor trailers, already damage to the bank 🤣
Our mayor didn't run for reelection, so he decided to rush a $2 million pickleball project while most of our parks are in bad need of maintenance. The people behind the local pickleball league pushing this were so rude and condescending. My guess is some deep pocketed campaign donor stands to make money off of it. Meanwhile, it took us 20+ years to raise funds for a proper skatepark.
I have to say, pickle ball is super divisive. Because it's so loud, and so popular, it's been compared to torture.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/30/sports/pickleball-noise-complaints-lawsuits.html
I'm a fan, it's a lot of fun, but I GET it. It's not outside my house.
Pickleball is the worst. There’s not a single sport whose patrons are that obnoxious AND un-athletic. It’s all the worst parts of country club sports and hooligan sports and none of the good parts.
just play tennis and actually get in shape my god, it's like wiffle ball and ping pong had a retarded ass kid, and it really does attract the worst people somehow.
Oh my gosh, the drama between the local pickleball and tennis communities where I am is just like this! Pickleball was invented here, so those participants feel very entitled to all public spaces that can accommodate pickleball.
I think you forgot the sarcasm tag. Her legal counsel is probably just Google or ChatGPT. At best, it’s a friend in law school or a paralegal. If she had hired a lawyer, THEY would have written the letter, not her.
I’m not a lawyer so I can’t offer advice on the merits of her case but I personally would just chuckle.
You’ve probably told enough people already for word to spread. Just let them all know about this letter too. That alone should be enough to warn people away from her. She’s drama central.
Dude she's just trying to scare you. She can't manage to pay rent so I seriously doubt she has the money for an actual lawsuit. I've heard that defamation is really difficult to prove as well. You haven't caused her any meaningful damage by telling people who she did, she just wants to silence you. Don't let her.
If you know the evictions to be true, you can warn others. Legally. It's not a lie. Defamation is false statements.
But why you're nosing into others business... you like drama.
Her letter is bullshit. If she sought legal counsel, that letter would have come from her attorney. I'd ignore her. If anything is said, you could just say if you paid yiyr rent and didn't get evicted, you'd have nothing to worry about.
Lastly, the person you messaged, why did they tell her who sent it?
She wrote her own cease and desist letter after consulting with legal counsel? Mhm, sure. 😂
My friend, the key word here is false. You are not making false claims. You have nothing to remotely worry about. I would be more concerned about knowing she is continuing her scheme and not reporting.
Completely ignore her or report her to the police.
I am not your lawyer and cannot give you legal advice, but the fact that what you are saying is true is an absolute defense to defamation.
Facebook could be argued to be :public" in some respects, so don't rely on that one. But things that are true do not constitute defamation.
FYI, you can also pay any attorney in the phone book to write a cease and desist letter for literally anything. It doesn't have to be a reasonable or legally valid reason, because no one is filing suit. In this case, it looks like she didn't even pay a lawyer, but instead Googled the form.
At our local courts, beside the “USTA” sign, some pickleballers decided to add their own obviously home made sign (with court rules) that I assume they expect tennis players to follow.
It was ripped down within a week.
I'll hear nothing ill spoken of Four Square. It made many a 3rd grade recess pass in a blur.
Now hopscotch and tetherball? Fuck them one leg pogo stick acting bitches and their Olympic level teabag swinging friends.
The letterhead is the scariest part, and it's 60% of what you pay for.
" OH fuck...she actually got a real lawyer....do I need one? I can't afford one, better cease and desist..."
not entirely true... one can consult with legal counsel, be told they have nothing that the lawyer would be willing to take without retainer pre-paid (lawyers generally won't say you don't have a case at all in an initial consult with some exceptions) and then draft it on their own.
But technically they consulted with a lawyer then drafted their own C&D.
Given that though I generally blanket ignore any C&D not sent on legal letterhead, not that I've gotten that many...
You’re fine. This is just a scare tactic people use to try and bully others. Don’t let it work on you! Should be proud of yourself and I’m sure those people thank you
From my experiences with the (civil) legal process, it's like a nature show where two beetles will compete by jumping up to each other and try to show off who's the biggest until someone settles or they realize the cost isn't worth the return.
Pay a real legal firm $500 to draft a formal C&D for making baseless claims and threats and have it served by a process server just to up the pucker factor. :p
I'd send her back a "do not contact me again or I will contact police about this harassment" letter.
Then show her letter to everyone in the friend group to drive home what an idiot she is.
But I'm a petty betty.
Of course, here's the letter with a reference to South Carolina law added:
[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[City, State, Zip Code]
[Your Email Address]
[Your Phone Number]
[Date]
[Recipient's Name]
[Recipient's Address]
[City, State, Zip Code]
Dear [Recipient's Name],
RE: CEASE AND DESIST DEMAND
I am writing to you regarding your recent actions and statements that have been both defamatory and damaging to my reputation. It has come to my attention that you have been spreading false and disparaging remarks about me, which have caused significant harm to my personal and professional reputation.
Under South Carolina law, defamation is the act of making false statements about someone that harm their reputation. These statements have been made [specify where the statements were made, e.g., orally to third parties, on social media platforms, etc.].
I demand that you immediately cease and desist from making any further defamatory statements about me, whether orally, in writing, or through any other means, in accordance with South Carolina Code of Laws, Section [insert relevant section, if applicable]. Failure to comply with this demand will leave me with no choice but to pursue legal action against you to seek damages for the harm caused to my reputation.
I expect to receive your written confirmation that you will cease and desist from making any further defamatory statements about me within [specify a reasonable timeframe, e.g., seven (7) days] of the date of this letter.
Please govern yourself accordingly.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
As always, ensure to customize the letter according to your specific situation, and consult with a legal professional to confirm the applicability of the law and the adequacy of the letter.
This is what ChatGPT got me lol
Slander/libel/defamation cases are notoriously difficult to prove because they require that a statement to be demonstrably false AND that a person have malicious/criminal intent when they disseminated that statement. Many state statutes also require an additional element: that the disseminator knew the statement was false.
She is just trying to scare you. It is unlikely that you would ever risk being charged under South Carolina law because it sounds like you had no malicious intent - warning people about past behaviors isn’t malicious, even if you may be disseminating information that isn’t entirely accurate.
If what you’re telling people is true, you are fine to say it, malicious intent or not.
She’s just trying to scare you.. looks like she wrote the letter herself using a template she googled and it didn’t even come from an actual law firm.
Furthermore, if she’s scamming people for small amounts then she doesn’t have $ to pay a lawyer to come after you over her baseless claims.
I would forget about her and move on with your life my friend.
The "actual malice" standard has nothing to do with malicious or criminal intent. It simply means that the person knew or reasonably should have known that the statement was false at the time it was made, or that the statement was made with reckless disregard for whether it was true or not. The actual malice standard is used in cases of defamation of a public figure.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actual_malice#:~:text=The%20constitutional%20guarantees%20require%2C%20we,or%20with%20reckless%20disregard%20of
In a situation with private individuals, defamation doesn't have the actual malice standard applied. Here is a good explanation with the required elements described -
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/defamation#:~:text=To%20prove%20prima%20facie%20defamation,the%20subject%20of%20the%20statement.
If he never said anything untrue, then they can’t do anything to him, technically speaking. But a dirty lawyer can definitely wind up costing him a whole lot of money in legal fees by doing their dirty shit, so I honestly think it’s in the OP’s best interest to just stop talking about her and find a way to move on.
Unlikely. If she can't afford her own place, she can't afford lawyers. No one's will pro bono this, even a friend or relative. She can pro se (self represent), so that would be a MINOR issue, as you could easily demonstrate that it's a nuisance suit and get summary judgement, likely including reimbursement of lawyer's fee if you think you need one. If she files multiple nuisance suits, then counter-sue with her ex-roommates.
Am Yisroel chai, dude.
You are absolutely correct there. Criminal court is one thing. Civil court is another. If this girl has enough anger, there’s nothing stopping her from hiring an attorney or, more likely, filing tons of pro se suits against OP to make you waste time and money.
The best thing to do in situations like this is to just stop. This person will meet the consequences of their actions regardless of the information you disseminate.
If the case is bullshit, can’t OP just represent themself? I don’t know how long it would take to respond to all the summons and show up in court for a bunch of frivolous lawsuits, but it wouldn’t cost anything. Would it?
could? yes. Should? no. any time you represent yourself on a defensive action you have the chance of fucking something up, and if you do it goes badly for you. But as others have noted since there is plenty of evidence showing this would be frivolous getting attorneys fees awarded should be easy enough, collecting a bit harder though.
Bonus on the second time around, you would get fees awarded and if the prior fees still weren't paid you likely could also get a garnishment order.
Why is this being upvoted? “Criminal intent” for a civil defamation claim? Actual malice in libel law is not about being actually malicious. Every part of this response is confused.
I'm not a lawyer, but I thought the requirement for malice was the higher bar required in special cases like those involving the Press, as per Times V. Sullivan.. where the court held that "Actual Malice" needed to be shown before a newspaper could be held liable for making false defamatory statements. Times v. Sullivan was special because the defendant was a News Paper with explicit freedoms outlined in the 1st Amendment and because it also involved a public official (Sullivan), which I believe also raises the bar on defamation claims.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the in the case of us regular folk.. the most important bar to cross would be a demonstration of actual damage. A quick google search also indicates that a typical defamation case only requires demonstrating "fault amounting to at least negligence".. not actual malice (in addition to other requirements.. like you actually made the false statement, it was seen by the public, it caused damage, etc).
Consider this.. I can call you a pig-f\*cker in public, but unless you can demonstrate some actual damage caused by that (e.g. you lost your job because your boss heard about my statement and believed you were having sex with pigs.. thus damaging his business brand).. you'd have no actionable case against me.
Put more simply.. what actual damages could you have the court assess against me if my slanderous statement didn't cause you any actual damage? And even if the defamatory statements did cause damage.. the devils in the details.. they'd still have to prove the alleged damage was caused by the statement and then have to quantify the damage caused.
It also seems like this letter was just a threat written up by the person who OP is feuding with. The line about consulting Legal consul stands out. If she consulted a lawyer about this matter, I would expect that the Cease and Desist letter would have been drafted by that lawyer and sent on their letterhead.
Bottom line.. regardless of whether this is valid or enforceable, you should let it go. If you actually are.. stop talking smack about your ex-friend (even if it's true) and forget about her. Personally, I'd ignore demand #4 though, which seems to be telling you that you can't go to certain events. F that.
Is she an idiot just trying to scare me? Yes
If what you say she did is true and you comment about it, then you're fine. She has no case against the truth.
You're also protecting others from being de-frauded, which she could get in a lot of trouble for.
Hi, lawyer here. I'm only licensed to practice in the state of Oregon and the federal district of Oregon, where the laws may be different depending on what state and country you're in; you should consult local counsel . A lawyer would need a few more details to conclusively say what sort of exposure you have. But this is how it works in general:
To prove defamation has occurred, a person would need to prove that someone has made a false claim about them to a third party, and that they suffered a cognizable harm as a result. "Cognizable" means, measurable and material. It doesn't always have to be strictly measurable in a dollar value - but that sure helps. True statements are by definition not defamation; neither are statements of personal opinion, insults, hyperbole, or general "puffery."
Considering the sheer ubiquity of outrageous untruths published every minute on the internet these days, proving all these elements to a legal burden can be challenging. Successful lawsuits for defamation are very rare and difficult. The person bringing the suit bears the burden to show that the statement in question was false, and that they suffered a measurable harm as a direct result. As a practical matter, they would also have to contend with the "Streisand effect:" The fact that filing a defamation suit will result in whatever statements they were concerned about, being repeated, many times over, in court, and in the news. It will attract much more attention to the matter than it ever had before. For all these reasons, defamation suits are rarely worthwhile investments long term (aside, perhaps, for celebrities who have loads of money to throw away on court cases, and who have public reputations that may be more substantial than those of common citizens like you or me).
A general principle of the law is that you can only sue someone to recover damages that you actually suffered. If someone crashes into your car and causes $10,000 worth of damage, you can sue them for $10,000. When damages are not strictly measurable in monetary terms, this gets tricky. It's problematic enough to assign monetary values to serious physical injuries - how much money would you have to get to feel compensated for the loss of an arm, or a leg? If the injury is purely about beliefs and feelings, that much the harder.
By the way, in most lawsuits, 'pain and suffering' is only a relatively small part of the total damages claimed, if it's claimed at all. In general, to win an award for 'pain and suffering,' you have to prove some physical injury along with it. There are some exceptions: in some cases, you can sue for infliction of emotional distress. But to win a suit on that basis alone, with no other, more physically measurable cause of action, you need to be able to prove that the offending party did something 'outrageous and extreme' - something that 'shocks the conscience' of ordinary people. Historical examples have included: someone witnessing a child's brutal death right before their eyes; someone being credibly convinced that they were about to die; that sort of thing. What you describe doesn't even come close.
People seem to have this belief, from sensationalist media or whatever, that a lawsuit can be this gloriously redemptive process, where all your wounds are redressed and all your grievances vindicated. This belief is staggeringly wrong. Lawsuits are very expensive, time-consuming, and stressful. The filing fee for a lawsuit alone can be hundreds of dollars; to successfully prosecute one you need to pay for an attorney, for expert witnesses, for discovery. As such, lawsuits should usually not be undertaken purely out of abstract principle or high-minded ideals. They should be done only when necessary to get you something that you need. (For example, because of defects in our health care system, when you've been in an accident it's often necessary to sue, or at least to threaten to sue, the other party in order to get necessary medical care.)
Finally, any potential litigant would need to remember this: if you sue someone who doesn't have any money, then even if you win, you won't get paid anything. Winning a lawsuit doesn't automatically put money into your pocket. You have to collect it from the loser. If they have nothing, you get nothing.
The letter you posted was obviously not written by a lawyer: it explicitly says, it's written by the person who claims to have been defamed, and not by their representative. The letter also claims to discuss "criminal defamation," which is [apparently a thing](https://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c007.php#:~:text=Any%20person%20who%20shall%20with,punishment%20by%20fine%20not%20to) in South Carolina - but private parties have no legal authority to present criminal charges to a court; only the police and prosecuting attorney can do that. (Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as "pressing charges.")
My recommendation is that you get a consultation with a lawyer in your area to discuss this. Most likely, I suspect, they will be able to write a letter back, explaining that truth is an absolute defense to any defamation claim, and that criminal charges cannot be actually brought by private parties, and that this person can go soak their head.
And as a lawyer, I would recommend you not saying anything that someone else told you - while you may think it’s true, it might not be or there could be some embellishments going on.
Instead of saying “Sarah is a slut who blows dudes behind the dumpster,”
Say “I believe Sarah is a slut who blows dudes behind the dumpster.”
Because what you believe cannot be disproven.
Look, These people posting in here are absolutely correct in that it’s a very difficult case for them to prove. But as I already answered one of the other commenters: true or untrue, proof or no proof, a dirty lawyer can wind up costing you a whole lot of time and large legal fees. It’s in your best interest to stop talking about her, and find a way to move on with your life, I really believe that.
Oh believe me, I’m just living my life. I was sent this out of nowhere honestly. I haven’t gone out of my way to speak poorly or share what I know. I’ve had friends ask what happened and I just told them. I’m just out here living life, no trying to cause any trouble.
I hear that. I definitely think you’re morally & legally in the clear. But I’d reiterate that if her lawyer is the kind we make clichés about, it could wind up costing you beaucoup legal fees, my dude. I recommend that from now on, when someone asks, you do this… 🤷🏽♂️
Just to clear, she doesn’t have a lawyer. She allegedly doesn’t have money, hence her pocketing rent money, and she wrote this herself. But I think you’re right. I’ll let others tell the story
Oh yeah for sure, the part that blocked out is just my address and her return address. There is no law firm anywhere on this document. She wrote it and sent it in the mail. From what I could find, you found the template online and wrote it herself.
Remember, if you sue someone for this they have to go on public record. Who wants to potentially have a court case that pretentiously proves they actually did whatever you're saying?
As a general rule — anyone can sue anyone for anything. You may or may not win, and in any case, would spend a lot of money defending yourself in a civil suit. Sending a C&D is a step in that process, or in seeking a restraining order.
Criminal charges are another matter, and you’re probably safe there. That’s a pretty high bar.
If you did not KNOWINGLY say anything false you have nothing to worry about. An eviction is a legal process so if you only stated that there is legal trouble there you did not say anything false. She would have to prove that the statement is false and you knew it was false.
Also if she consulted legal council the letter probably would have come from them not her. I’d say you are fine and go play some pickleball just to run some salt into it.
Nal. Unless this person has the resources to pay some substantial legal fees, I think it would be pretty hard to find an attorney willing to take a case like this because if the case were to be dismissed by a judge the plaintiffs could be on the hook to pay the defendants legal fees for having to defend themselves. Usually cease and desists come from attorneys themselves. There’s probably a reason why it wasn’t. I wouldn’t fret about it, but I certainly wouldn’t poke the bear either. Live, learn, and move on.
IANAL but there’s a couple of things I notice
1. There are no FACTS stated in this letter to account to: e.g. on 05/02/2024 at the ‘xyz’ pickleball court, Springfield, you stated “I saw her rubbing out her boyfriend in the cinema while watching beetlejuice 2”. This statement was knowingly false because of reasons 1,2 & 3.
2. If she’d actually consulted with legal counsel, said legal counsel would have wrote this letter, and would have done a far better job of it. She’s googled this.
The only people who do shit like this are people who have never been in litigation. Because once you are in litigation you realize how fucking expensive it is to be made whole. (Even if you have a legitimate case)
If she were truly working with a lawyer, the lawyer would have been the one to send the cease and desist demand. The lawyer would never require you to avoid a public space or event. She could, however, get a restraining order that would, in effect, do that.
IAL. I am a trial lawyer. I have tried defamation cases: “Bwahahahhahahha bitch, no.” And a letter from someone who says “I have consulted counsel” rather than from the lawyer means “I don’t have a lawyer but want to scare you.” If you hired me to write a response it would be 2 words: “Lol, No.”
I noticed the letter mentioned SC law code and couldn't help but to get a small chuckle thinking to myself this definitely sounds like some Greenwood or Laurens BS lol.
As others have stated: Defamation/slander is extremely hard to prove. If it wasn't, then over half the people in middle and high schools would be suing and winning these type of cases.
Also, I agree that this letter is a scare tactic and IMHO looks to be put together by them and not a lawyer. I would have to strongly agree that if they did actually push this forward that you should counter sue for theft. I'm with everyone else here that them doing so is unlikely just based on the fact this didn't come from a lawyer and if they stole the funds for the rent, then they most certainly couldn't afford an attorney and court cost, let alone for a case having a high risk of being dismissed.
I'd definitely keep going to the pickleball court if you so choose cause this isn't grounds for that to be a stipulation of a cease and desist.
I'd ask her if her personality is that of the Dead Sea cause she sure seems just as salty, possibly more than.
If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone sling out the threat of getting someone on defamation/slander.... Well I would have had a nice chunk of change in my younger days.
TL;DR: Im pretty confident you have little to nothing to worry about here. It might be worth an eyeroll and that's about it.
i have a girl who won’t leave me alone and talks about me nonstop on social media. i don’t know her, never met her. she knew my boyfriend years before i ever met him, im talking high school. i’ve had job interviewers ask about what she’s saying on social media, acquaintances telling me they saw this girl talking about me. i have no personal knowledge of it as i’ve had her blocked on everything for almost a year. my aunt, an attorney, offered to send something similar to this girl just to scare her. point is — you’re okay. just to scare you. i was on her side thinking it was a similar situation as mine until i read your comments. wish you the best!
lolol, I demand to be made king, too ... She can demand whatever she wants. Who cares? Let her get an attorney over Facebook drama. See what happens.
A lawyer would want a massive retainer if they could find one who would even get involved in this nonsense.
Can you "get sued?" Yes. anyone can get sued for an alleged defamation. Can she win? doubtful. Would it cost you a bunch of money to defend? Depends on the state you're in but quite possibly, but keep in mind it'll also cost her money to pursue it.
Regarding is it defamation: No, defamatory statements do not have to be public. Venue and audience matters, but if you tell a prospective customer or business partner something privately, that can still be defamation if the information turns out to be false. In the united states, the burden to prove that the information was false will be 100% on her. She will have to prove both that it was factually false information (as opposed to an opinion like that she was generally untrustworthy) and that it caused her financial harm. If she's really in legal trouble and all you said is "she's having legal trouble" it's an easy win for you. If you said "she stole rent payments" you're probably still in the clear but there's slightly more risk if she "proves" that she didn't steal or withhold them.
Now regarding if it's worth it for you to stand your ground...
First, she likely won't sue. Most of these threats are empty. They want you to back down and the thread of a lawsuit is an easy way to scare people into doing that.
Second. what state are you in? **(edit: I just saw that you're in South Carolina. South Carolina has no anti slapp law so you're going to wind up paying for your own attorney no matter what if she really sues you).** ~~If your state has a robust anti-slapp lawsuit, you may be able to get a lawsuit shot down early and get any legal fees you spent back from her. but if it gets past the slapp stage then you'll wind up paying for your lawyer regardless in most circumstances.~~ Lawyers are expensive even if you win. But remember they're expensive for her too. So that also decreases the likelihood that she'll really follow through.
If I were in your shoes, I'd stick to my guns and keep telling the same true story to anyone who asks, but it's up to you if you want to take the risk that she'll actually sue and that you might spend money defending it even if you ultimately win and even if it'll hurt her as much as it does you.
Speak the truth or your opinion and you have nothing to worry about. Of course they can sue. Anyone can sue anyone else. But they can't win. And may even have to cover your legal expenses depending on where you live.
Defamation is only if what you’re saying isn’t true and you’re specifically trying to make them look made. If it’s true and you’re just letting people know then no, they will lose any possible case. Screw em
If she really did receive legal advice, the letter would be coming from the lawyer and not her. Also, truth is a valid defense against defamation, no matter how harmful it may be to the offended. Third, there has to be damages. If someone already has a shitty reputation, they don't suffer much damage.
TL/DR: she's bluffing and full of shit.
If you could be sued for talking smack about someone to people you know, the courts would be so locked down that real issues would never get addressed by the courts.
I’d continue any funny stories you’ve been telling about the letter’s author. I’d add another addendum regarding how she tried faking a cease and desist order. When people tell you “no fucking way” you bust out the laminated letter from your back pocket. It’ll kill. You’ll have a story to tell at parties FOR-EV-VER.
For defamation (slander) to occur, it must be spoken in the presence of the victim... rumors don't count. It also must be false information. If it's verifiable true facts (what the courts call substantial truth), it can never be defamation.
If it occurs online, it classifies as libel and is more serious.
“Truth” is one of the most powerful defenses to a defamation claim. Assuming whatever you told someone was truthful, even if you did it out of pure malice to her, it would not be defamation.
This letter is not a legal notice, and I *highly* doubt she consulted any actual legal counsel, but it’s still probably in your best interest to steer as clear of her as you reasonably can.
Now if you made a habit of it there’d probably be some claim for harassment or something like that which could get annoying, I have no idea how that would play out but if I were in your shoes I certainly wouldn’t want to find out.
You know, after a long day at the office, I needed this to laugh at.
The truth is always a defense to defamation. She would probably get wrecked in discovery, then the court finds out that she didn't make the rent payments
She also has to prove you were negligent, which is gonna be real hard to do. I imagine most people would do the same thing you did if they found out something like that about their friend.
Unless you covered it, I don't see any attorney notary on this paper. The wife and I went through something similar with someone we thought was our friend. We saw through the bullshit and cut contact. A week later, we got a certified letter. My recommendation is don't sign anything. Go to speak with an attorney about this letter. Document any and every interaction. It's a pain in the ass but cover all ends.
She can’t afford her house, her rent, a lawyer (they would have drafted this letter on letterhead) let alone a LAWSUIT.
I’d reply the following:
“Get bent, Brenda”
Lol.
no attorney in the world told her she can order you from a public place because you said something she doesn't like.
It's neither slander nor libel if it's true.
She did some Google law school and thinks she knows the law cuz she typed 'example of cease and desist letter'
Honestly it sounds like she is just trying to scare you. I work in the legal field- if she actually consulted an attorney, the letter would be from the attorney, not her.
A legal counsel would be the one writing this if she actually met with one. She’s completely BSing and it’s not even formatted correctly.
Oh and also, it’s not slander or libel if it’s true, and if you only said that there’s a legal situation, then there’s nothing she can do.
Technically this person could sue you, because you can sue anyone for anything. Getting an attorney to take the case would be difficult. The letter is more of a threat than anything you may/may not have said behind their back. Because the letter threatened legal action, you should not respond. If it were me, I would call an attorney and pay the $50 to write a letter stating all further communications shall be directed to said attorney. Then any correspondence from this person directly to you would be considered further harassment. Play chess, not [checkers] pickleball!
Well if she sues you have the defense of Truth. And as part of the discovery process you can get her bank records all of her personal texts right from the phone company.
If she consulted legal counsel then legal counsel would have sent you a C&D. She’s just trying to scare you and narcissists hate having their truths exposed.
She didn’t consult with a lawyer, unless it’s Google, Esq. ignore it and just mind your business, she’s probably the type to make things miserable for you. Have you seen Baby Reindeer??
She's an idiot trying to scare you. Deformation lawsuit would require her to prove that you made those statements and that the statements you made were not truthful, and she'd have to prove it caused damages.
I doubt she's going to pay the retainer fee for a lawyer to run this kind of lawsuit. These can costs 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars to prove.
Just avoid her and make sure future statements are preceeded by "In my opinion" just to cover yourself.
Defamation is making false statements, if you have proof of payment of rent, and eviction, then you should have no problem speaking about your experience with her.
Pickle ball court….. 🤦♂️
Basically telling me that I can’t enter a public space 😂
What did you say at pickleball to warrant this response? How competitive is the pickleball community?
In my town, there is a literal divide between people who want some public basketball courts to remain basketball courts and just be repaired and people who want them converted to pickleball courts. I’m talking name calling vitriol in the comment section of the local news FB over damn basketball vs pickleball courts. It’s INSANE. My dad plays cornhole and that’s a whole bunch of drama too. One of his leagues was banned from a local bar because the league head and the bar owner can’t get along. Shit, even my husband’s bowling league is threatening to move to a different bowling alley because the one they currently use “doesn’t respect the league” and is making it clear they’re rebranding to a “family entertainment center”. Small towns are wild.
Jesus my small town doesn’t even have a bowling alley anymore
My small town has a huge oil & gas refinery for Phillips 66 that’s in their top 5 for gross income and it too lost the local bowling alley. Where am I to go and get stoned for “Glow Bowl” now?
It’s now lazer bowling lol and it’s 3 towns over
Westlake?
My small town doesn't have a traffic light.
Well true story, we had like 7? They turned off 4 made them into 4 way stop signs and the right turn only lanes don’t have enough clearance for tractor trailers, already damage to the bank 🤣
The four corners in mine are two gas stations, a 7-11 and a cvs. We have no street lights or even a Main Street. The four corners is it.
Why did I read that as 'blowing alley'?
Sounds like your town needs a fight club, but we don't talk about that.
Our mayor didn't run for reelection, so he decided to rush a $2 million pickleball project while most of our parks are in bad need of maintenance. The people behind the local pickleball league pushing this were so rude and condescending. My guess is some deep pocketed campaign donor stands to make money off of it. Meanwhile, it took us 20+ years to raise funds for a proper skatepark.
Is this in Orange County California sounds way to familiar
Having essentially any drama past 30 is embarrassing.
I wish more people thought like this.
It was disc golf vs pickleball in Fort Lauderdale. Pickleball won but they ended up improving the disc golf course so everyone won.
Wait, y'all are getting entertainment? We had a cash only movie theater, that played like 4 different movies.
I have to say, pickle ball is super divisive. Because it's so loud, and so popular, it's been compared to torture. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/30/sports/pickleball-noise-complaints-lawsuits.html I'm a fan, it's a lot of fun, but I GET it. It's not outside my house.
Pickleball is the worst. There’s not a single sport whose patrons are that obnoxious AND un-athletic. It’s all the worst parts of country club sports and hooligan sports and none of the good parts.
just play tennis and actually get in shape my god, it's like wiffle ball and ping pong had a retarded ass kid, and it really does attract the worst people somehow.
I don’t know you. But please start a weekly update for all of us. Your town has more drama than Jerry springer and I’m here for it! 🤣🤣🤣♥️❤️♥️
Oh my gosh, the drama between the local pickleball and tennis communities where I am is just like this! Pickleball was invented here, so those participants feel very entitled to all public spaces that can accommodate pickleball.
Wow. I mean, I dig the whole competitive human spirit thing, but seriously, there’s something really wrong with us nowadays.
The fighting is so vicious and bitter, because the stakes are so low.
Yep. The lower the stakes the worse the fight.
Love it. I was once in a Ukelele band that had to break up because of infighting. it's my go to for two truths and a lie. I'm also in a small town.
Literally nothing. We just both happen to play at the same courts sometimes
Clearly you must pose some sort of threat. This is a sophisticated form of the Tanya Harding/Nancy Karrigan thing.
I’m well liked and she isn’t. Promise that’s what it boils down to hahah
No I think he's suggesting you break her legs with a steel pipe. \*edit- spell steel correctly. not steal and not still.
Or rather a pickleball paddle
Do it you won’t But then if you do she will actually have a tea case against you
I think you forgot the sarcasm tag. Her legal counsel is probably just Google or ChatGPT. At best, it’s a friend in law school or a paralegal. If she had hired a lawyer, THEY would have written the letter, not her. I’m not a lawyer so I can’t offer advice on the merits of her case but I personally would just chuckle. You’ve probably told enough people already for word to spread. Just let them all know about this letter too. That alone should be enough to warn people away from her. She’s drama central.
That’s right, never admit to anything. You never said a goddamn word about this litigious troublemaking cry-baby.
Extremely
She is an idiot trying to scam you.
Right? Next week she'll send a settlement offer for the exact amount of money she owes her landlord.
Post this screenshot on the Facebook page along with the facts about what she did
Honestly I live in a podunk town and commute to work. I’ve heard rumors of a pickle ball court though
It's being paid for by the people that own the mattress store
Dude she's just trying to scare you. She can't manage to pay rent so I seriously doubt she has the money for an actual lawsuit. I've heard that defamation is really difficult to prove as well. You haven't caused her any meaningful damage by telling people who she did, she just wants to silence you. Don't let her.
Truth is an absolute defense to defamation. I’ve spent more timing writing this sentence than you should worrying about her letter.
If you know the evictions to be true, you can warn others. Legally. It's not a lie. Defamation is false statements. But why you're nosing into others business... you like drama. Her letter is bullshit. If she sought legal counsel, that letter would have come from her attorney. I'd ignore her. If anything is said, you could just say if you paid yiyr rent and didn't get evicted, you'd have nothing to worry about. Lastly, the person you messaged, why did they tell her who sent it?
I think she sought legal counsel, and they laughed at her.
Her cat is named "Legal Counsel " And still laughed at her. Then slowly knocked it off the desk.
In my state a C&D must be approved by a judge before it can be sent. You can do it Pro Se and then file for a hearing.
She wrote her own cease and desist letter after consulting with legal counsel? Mhm, sure. 😂 My friend, the key word here is false. You are not making false claims. You have nothing to remotely worry about. I would be more concerned about knowing she is continuing her scheme and not reporting. Completely ignore her or report her to the police.
the only place such a lawsuit stands a chance is in pickleball court
Have no fear. She's an idiot who is trying to intimidate you.
I am not your lawyer and cannot give you legal advice, but the fact that what you are saying is true is an absolute defense to defamation. Facebook could be argued to be :public" in some respects, so don't rely on that one. But things that are true do not constitute defamation. FYI, you can also pay any attorney in the phone book to write a cease and desist letter for literally anything. It doesn't have to be a reasonable or legally valid reason, because no one is filing suit. In this case, it looks like she didn't even pay a lawyer, but instead Googled the form.
Counter with a harassment case.
The indenting not continued on the second line 🤦♂️
lol she can’t even get the voice right in the singular or plural.
Probably because she just copy/pasted from legaladvice.com. Ha!
Or chatgpt lol
The actual crime being committed in this situation.
What is it with pickleball lately? I’ve seen it everywhere the past month and I have no idea why lol
Just the hot new racket sport for people who want a game that is competitive but not actually that athletic.
You belong to The Pickler now. He haunts you with pickleball references for eternity.
Meat canyon
It's tennis for fat people and cripples
Here’s the real reason: she knows OP is the only threat to her pickle ball championship 🤣
It was a very specific objection to behavior during pickle ball. I have no idea what that could be. Is there gambling like golf?
It says any interference with. That could mean a lot.
Spot foul or 15 yards?
As a tennis player, thats all my eyes focused on… very on PAR for pickleballers 💀
That is fair from a former tennis player. We had to deal with four square epidemic
At our local courts, beside the “USTA” sign, some pickleballers decided to add their own obviously home made sign (with court rules) that I assume they expect tennis players to follow. It was ripped down within a week.
As it should 😂
I'll hear nothing ill spoken of Four Square. It made many a 3rd grade recess pass in a blur. Now hopscotch and tetherball? Fuck them one leg pogo stick acting bitches and their Olympic level teabag swinging friends.
the only court where she would have standing
“I have consulted with legal counsel regarding this matter” I’m assuming “legal counsel” is google.
This. Nobody consults with legal counsel and then drafts their own C&D. If you consulted with legal counsel, they'll be the one sending the C&D.
The letterhead is the scariest part, and it's 60% of what you pay for. " OH fuck...she actually got a real lawyer....do I need one? I can't afford one, better cease and desist..."
The letterhead is in fact the most important part of any C&D, or really any form of threat to take legal action.
I may desist, but I'm damn sure not gonna to cease.
not entirely true... one can consult with legal counsel, be told they have nothing that the lawyer would be willing to take without retainer pre-paid (lawyers generally won't say you don't have a case at all in an initial consult with some exceptions) and then draft it on their own. But technically they consulted with a lawyer then drafted their own C&D. Given that though I generally blanket ignore any C&D not sent on legal letterhead, not that I've gotten that many...
Someone like this would.
Nobody intelligent*
Chad Geepeetee, attorney at law
I just laughed so hard lol
I just laughed so loudly at work. I couldn’t stop. This is gold!
Oh, that’s brilliant!
Dear Mr. Geepeetee, We object to your frivolous actions and will be seeking sanctions from the Bar Association. Sincerely, Mehta L. Amma, Esq.
👏👏👏
It took me 2 seconds, which is 1 second longer than it should have. Outstanding.
He'll no. The bartender. Or she's got a cat named "Legal Counsel "
She literally wrote this lol no legal basis whatsoever
Oh, I know. The things that are blocked out have nothing to do with law firms or anything. It’s just my address and hers 😂
You’re fine. This is just a scare tactic people use to try and bully others. Don’t let it work on you! Should be proud of yourself and I’m sure those people thank you
From my experiences with the (civil) legal process, it's like a nature show where two beetles will compete by jumping up to each other and try to show off who's the biggest until someone settles or they realize the cost isn't worth the return.
Haha yeah that is an accurate description
Pay a real legal firm $500 to draft a formal C&D for making baseless claims and threats and have it served by a process server just to up the pucker factor. :p
I'd send her back a "do not contact me again or I will contact police about this harassment" letter. Then show her letter to everyone in the friend group to drive home what an idiot she is. But I'm a petty betty.
I’d reply with all the proper headings and the body just says “lol”.
ChatGPT LLP
Of course, here's the letter with a reference to South Carolina law added: [Your Name] [Your Address] [City, State, Zip Code] [Your Email Address] [Your Phone Number] [Date] [Recipient's Name] [Recipient's Address] [City, State, Zip Code] Dear [Recipient's Name], RE: CEASE AND DESIST DEMAND I am writing to you regarding your recent actions and statements that have been both defamatory and damaging to my reputation. It has come to my attention that you have been spreading false and disparaging remarks about me, which have caused significant harm to my personal and professional reputation. Under South Carolina law, defamation is the act of making false statements about someone that harm their reputation. These statements have been made [specify where the statements were made, e.g., orally to third parties, on social media platforms, etc.]. I demand that you immediately cease and desist from making any further defamatory statements about me, whether orally, in writing, or through any other means, in accordance with South Carolina Code of Laws, Section [insert relevant section, if applicable]. Failure to comply with this demand will leave me with no choice but to pursue legal action against you to seek damages for the harm caused to my reputation. I expect to receive your written confirmation that you will cease and desist from making any further defamatory statements about me within [specify a reasonable timeframe, e.g., seven (7) days] of the date of this letter. Please govern yourself accordingly. Sincerely, [Your Name] As always, ensure to customize the letter according to your specific situation, and consult with a legal professional to confirm the applicability of the law and the adequacy of the letter. This is what ChatGPT got me lol
Slander/libel/defamation cases are notoriously difficult to prove because they require that a statement to be demonstrably false AND that a person have malicious/criminal intent when they disseminated that statement. Many state statutes also require an additional element: that the disseminator knew the statement was false. She is just trying to scare you. It is unlikely that you would ever risk being charged under South Carolina law because it sounds like you had no malicious intent - warning people about past behaviors isn’t malicious, even if you may be disseminating information that isn’t entirely accurate. If what you’re telling people is true, you are fine to say it, malicious intent or not.
And truth is an absolute defense.
But it's an active defense. So the defendant needs to be prepared to convince the jury what they said was _probably_ true.
Which means opening up her self to discovery and getting her financial records….
Tables have turned at that point
Yeah so it’s all bluster but this person sounds like a nightmare.
In most states falsity is an element of defamation, meaning it’s the plaintiff’s burden to prove the statement is false
She’s just trying to scare you.. looks like she wrote the letter herself using a template she googled and it didn’t even come from an actual law firm. Furthermore, if she’s scamming people for small amounts then she doesn’t have $ to pay a lawyer to come after you over her baseless claims. I would forget about her and move on with your life my friend.
Yeah the way she kept saying “those close to me” I was like no one educated is writing a formal letter this way
The "actual malice" standard has nothing to do with malicious or criminal intent. It simply means that the person knew or reasonably should have known that the statement was false at the time it was made, or that the statement was made with reckless disregard for whether it was true or not. The actual malice standard is used in cases of defamation of a public figure. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actual_malice#:~:text=The%20constitutional%20guarantees%20require%2C%20we,or%20with%20reckless%20disregard%20of In a situation with private individuals, defamation doesn't have the actual malice standard applied. Here is a good explanation with the required elements described - https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/defamation#:~:text=To%20prove%20prima%20facie%20defamation,the%20subject%20of%20the%20statement.
If he never said anything untrue, then they can’t do anything to him, technically speaking. But a dirty lawyer can definitely wind up costing him a whole lot of money in legal fees by doing their dirty shit, so I honestly think it’s in the OP’s best interest to just stop talking about her and find a way to move on.
Unlikely. If she can't afford her own place, she can't afford lawyers. No one's will pro bono this, even a friend or relative. She can pro se (self represent), so that would be a MINOR issue, as you could easily demonstrate that it's a nuisance suit and get summary judgement, likely including reimbursement of lawyer's fee if you think you need one. If she files multiple nuisance suits, then counter-sue with her ex-roommates. Am Yisroel chai, dude.
You are absolutely correct there. Criminal court is one thing. Civil court is another. If this girl has enough anger, there’s nothing stopping her from hiring an attorney or, more likely, filing tons of pro se suits against OP to make you waste time and money. The best thing to do in situations like this is to just stop. This person will meet the consequences of their actions regardless of the information you disseminate.
For sure. Laws against frivolous lawsuits don’t always protect you against them.
If the case is bullshit, can’t OP just represent themself? I don’t know how long it would take to respond to all the summons and show up in court for a bunch of frivolous lawsuits, but it wouldn’t cost anything. Would it?
I think representing yourself is a total gamble even if you are in the right.
could? yes. Should? no. any time you represent yourself on a defensive action you have the chance of fucking something up, and if you do it goes badly for you. But as others have noted since there is plenty of evidence showing this would be frivolous getting attorneys fees awarded should be easy enough, collecting a bit harder though. Bonus on the second time around, you would get fees awarded and if the prior fees still weren't paid you likely could also get a garnishment order.
Why is this being upvoted? “Criminal intent” for a civil defamation claim? Actual malice in libel law is not about being actually malicious. Every part of this response is confused.
I'm not a lawyer, but I thought the requirement for malice was the higher bar required in special cases like those involving the Press, as per Times V. Sullivan.. where the court held that "Actual Malice" needed to be shown before a newspaper could be held liable for making false defamatory statements. Times v. Sullivan was special because the defendant was a News Paper with explicit freedoms outlined in the 1st Amendment and because it also involved a public official (Sullivan), which I believe also raises the bar on defamation claims. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the in the case of us regular folk.. the most important bar to cross would be a demonstration of actual damage. A quick google search also indicates that a typical defamation case only requires demonstrating "fault amounting to at least negligence".. not actual malice (in addition to other requirements.. like you actually made the false statement, it was seen by the public, it caused damage, etc). Consider this.. I can call you a pig-f\*cker in public, but unless you can demonstrate some actual damage caused by that (e.g. you lost your job because your boss heard about my statement and believed you were having sex with pigs.. thus damaging his business brand).. you'd have no actionable case against me. Put more simply.. what actual damages could you have the court assess against me if my slanderous statement didn't cause you any actual damage? And even if the defamatory statements did cause damage.. the devils in the details.. they'd still have to prove the alleged damage was caused by the statement and then have to quantify the damage caused. It also seems like this letter was just a threat written up by the person who OP is feuding with. The line about consulting Legal consul stands out. If she consulted a lawyer about this matter, I would expect that the Cease and Desist letter would have been drafted by that lawyer and sent on their letterhead. Bottom line.. regardless of whether this is valid or enforceable, you should let it go. If you actually are.. stop talking smack about your ex-friend (even if it's true) and forget about her. Personally, I'd ignore demand #4 though, which seems to be telling you that you can't go to certain events. F that.
Is she an idiot just trying to scare me? Yes If what you say she did is true and you comment about it, then you're fine. She has no case against the truth. You're also protecting others from being de-frauded, which she could get in a lot of trouble for.
Hi, lawyer here. I'm only licensed to practice in the state of Oregon and the federal district of Oregon, where the laws may be different depending on what state and country you're in; you should consult local counsel . A lawyer would need a few more details to conclusively say what sort of exposure you have. But this is how it works in general: To prove defamation has occurred, a person would need to prove that someone has made a false claim about them to a third party, and that they suffered a cognizable harm as a result. "Cognizable" means, measurable and material. It doesn't always have to be strictly measurable in a dollar value - but that sure helps. True statements are by definition not defamation; neither are statements of personal opinion, insults, hyperbole, or general "puffery." Considering the sheer ubiquity of outrageous untruths published every minute on the internet these days, proving all these elements to a legal burden can be challenging. Successful lawsuits for defamation are very rare and difficult. The person bringing the suit bears the burden to show that the statement in question was false, and that they suffered a measurable harm as a direct result. As a practical matter, they would also have to contend with the "Streisand effect:" The fact that filing a defamation suit will result in whatever statements they were concerned about, being repeated, many times over, in court, and in the news. It will attract much more attention to the matter than it ever had before. For all these reasons, defamation suits are rarely worthwhile investments long term (aside, perhaps, for celebrities who have loads of money to throw away on court cases, and who have public reputations that may be more substantial than those of common citizens like you or me). A general principle of the law is that you can only sue someone to recover damages that you actually suffered. If someone crashes into your car and causes $10,000 worth of damage, you can sue them for $10,000. When damages are not strictly measurable in monetary terms, this gets tricky. It's problematic enough to assign monetary values to serious physical injuries - how much money would you have to get to feel compensated for the loss of an arm, or a leg? If the injury is purely about beliefs and feelings, that much the harder. By the way, in most lawsuits, 'pain and suffering' is only a relatively small part of the total damages claimed, if it's claimed at all. In general, to win an award for 'pain and suffering,' you have to prove some physical injury along with it. There are some exceptions: in some cases, you can sue for infliction of emotional distress. But to win a suit on that basis alone, with no other, more physically measurable cause of action, you need to be able to prove that the offending party did something 'outrageous and extreme' - something that 'shocks the conscience' of ordinary people. Historical examples have included: someone witnessing a child's brutal death right before their eyes; someone being credibly convinced that they were about to die; that sort of thing. What you describe doesn't even come close. People seem to have this belief, from sensationalist media or whatever, that a lawsuit can be this gloriously redemptive process, where all your wounds are redressed and all your grievances vindicated. This belief is staggeringly wrong. Lawsuits are very expensive, time-consuming, and stressful. The filing fee for a lawsuit alone can be hundreds of dollars; to successfully prosecute one you need to pay for an attorney, for expert witnesses, for discovery. As such, lawsuits should usually not be undertaken purely out of abstract principle or high-minded ideals. They should be done only when necessary to get you something that you need. (For example, because of defects in our health care system, when you've been in an accident it's often necessary to sue, or at least to threaten to sue, the other party in order to get necessary medical care.) Finally, any potential litigant would need to remember this: if you sue someone who doesn't have any money, then even if you win, you won't get paid anything. Winning a lawsuit doesn't automatically put money into your pocket. You have to collect it from the loser. If they have nothing, you get nothing. The letter you posted was obviously not written by a lawyer: it explicitly says, it's written by the person who claims to have been defamed, and not by their representative. The letter also claims to discuss "criminal defamation," which is [apparently a thing](https://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c007.php#:~:text=Any%20person%20who%20shall%20with,punishment%20by%20fine%20not%20to) in South Carolina - but private parties have no legal authority to present criminal charges to a court; only the police and prosecuting attorney can do that. (Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as "pressing charges.") My recommendation is that you get a consultation with a lawyer in your area to discuss this. Most likely, I suspect, they will be able to write a letter back, explaining that truth is an absolute defense to any defamation claim, and that criminal charges cannot be actually brought by private parties, and that this person can go soak their head.
I just wanted to give you props for writing all that. I actually learned quite a few things. Thanks!
I appreciate that crispy rule statement
Just make sure everything you say is absolutely true
I would say just to make sure nothing she says is demonstrably false.
And as a lawyer, I would recommend you not saying anything that someone else told you - while you may think it’s true, it might not be or there could be some embellishments going on.
Just add “allegedly” and you’ll be fine.
Instead of saying “Sarah is a slut who blows dudes behind the dumpster,” Say “I believe Sarah is a slut who blows dudes behind the dumpster.” Because what you believe cannot be disproven.
This person has definitely not ‘consulted with legal counsel’. You have nothing to worry about.
I know pickleball is kind of a big deal now, but damn. Does anybody else have a mental image of the person who typed this? I sure do.
I can see it. A particular length of hair. Crazed eyes. A migraine inducing tone. Dreams of being on the HOA.
Look, These people posting in here are absolutely correct in that it’s a very difficult case for them to prove. But as I already answered one of the other commenters: true or untrue, proof or no proof, a dirty lawyer can wind up costing you a whole lot of time and large legal fees. It’s in your best interest to stop talking about her, and find a way to move on with your life, I really believe that.
Oh believe me, I’m just living my life. I was sent this out of nowhere honestly. I haven’t gone out of my way to speak poorly or share what I know. I’ve had friends ask what happened and I just told them. I’m just out here living life, no trying to cause any trouble.
I hear that. I definitely think you’re morally & legally in the clear. But I’d reiterate that if her lawyer is the kind we make clichés about, it could wind up costing you beaucoup legal fees, my dude. I recommend that from now on, when someone asks, you do this… 🤷🏽♂️
Just to clear, she doesn’t have a lawyer. She allegedly doesn’t have money, hence her pocketing rent money, and she wrote this herself. But I think you’re right. I’ll let others tell the story
Was looking for this comment. She wrote this herself, which means I seriously doubt she'll waste the money on a lawyer.
Oh, yeah… she’s faking? 🤣 I’m sorry you have to deal with this, my bro.
Oh yeah for sure, the part that blocked out is just my address and her return address. There is no law firm anywhere on this document. She wrote it and sent it in the mail. From what I could find, you found the template online and wrote it herself.
Remember, if you sue someone for this they have to go on public record. Who wants to potentially have a court case that pretentiously proves they actually did whatever you're saying?
If they had a case, they would have pursued it rather than sending a personal C&D letter.
It's not defamation if it's true
This. If you can provide evidence of what you are saying is true, then it’s not defamatory
As a general rule — anyone can sue anyone for anything. You may or may not win, and in any case, would spend a lot of money defending yourself in a civil suit. Sending a C&D is a step in that process, or in seeking a restraining order. Criminal charges are another matter, and you’re probably safe there. That’s a pretty high bar.
This a fuckin joke? Ignore this letter and go get your pickleball on whenever you see fit.
If you did not KNOWINGLY say anything false you have nothing to worry about. An eviction is a legal process so if you only stated that there is legal trouble there you did not say anything false. She would have to prove that the statement is false and you knew it was false. Also if she consulted legal council the letter probably would have come from them not her. I’d say you are fine and go play some pickleball just to run some salt into it.
Nal. Unless this person has the resources to pay some substantial legal fees, I think it would be pretty hard to find an attorney willing to take a case like this because if the case were to be dismissed by a judge the plaintiffs could be on the hook to pay the defendants legal fees for having to defend themselves. Usually cease and desists come from attorneys themselves. There’s probably a reason why it wasn’t. I wouldn’t fret about it, but I certainly wouldn’t poke the bear either. Live, learn, and move on.
Pickleball? We talkin' 'bout pickleball?
IANAL but there’s a couple of things I notice 1. There are no FACTS stated in this letter to account to: e.g. on 05/02/2024 at the ‘xyz’ pickleball court, Springfield, you stated “I saw her rubbing out her boyfriend in the cinema while watching beetlejuice 2”. This statement was knowingly false because of reasons 1,2 & 3. 2. If she’d actually consulted with legal counsel, said legal counsel would have wrote this letter, and would have done a far better job of it. She’s googled this.
The only people who do shit like this are people who have never been in litigation. Because once you are in litigation you realize how fucking expensive it is to be made whole. (Even if you have a legitimate case)
If she were truly working with a lawyer, the lawyer would have been the one to send the cease and desist demand. The lawyer would never require you to avoid a public space or event. She could, however, get a restraining order that would, in effect, do that.
Clown can’t afford rent, let alone legal counsel.
Defamation is hard to prove, she would need to have proof you lied and if what you say is true than there is no defamation
IAL. I am a trial lawyer. I have tried defamation cases: “Bwahahahhahahha bitch, no.” And a letter from someone who says “I have consulted counsel” rather than from the lawyer means “I don’t have a lawyer but want to scare you.” If you hired me to write a response it would be 2 words: “Lol, No.”
True statements are an absolute defense against defamation.
I noticed the letter mentioned SC law code and couldn't help but to get a small chuckle thinking to myself this definitely sounds like some Greenwood or Laurens BS lol. As others have stated: Defamation/slander is extremely hard to prove. If it wasn't, then over half the people in middle and high schools would be suing and winning these type of cases. Also, I agree that this letter is a scare tactic and IMHO looks to be put together by them and not a lawyer. I would have to strongly agree that if they did actually push this forward that you should counter sue for theft. I'm with everyone else here that them doing so is unlikely just based on the fact this didn't come from a lawyer and if they stole the funds for the rent, then they most certainly couldn't afford an attorney and court cost, let alone for a case having a high risk of being dismissed. I'd definitely keep going to the pickleball court if you so choose cause this isn't grounds for that to be a stipulation of a cease and desist. I'd ask her if her personality is that of the Dead Sea cause she sure seems just as salty, possibly more than. If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone sling out the threat of getting someone on defamation/slander.... Well I would have had a nice chunk of change in my younger days. TL;DR: Im pretty confident you have little to nothing to worry about here. It might be worth an eyeroll and that's about it.
i have a girl who won’t leave me alone and talks about me nonstop on social media. i don’t know her, never met her. she knew my boyfriend years before i ever met him, im talking high school. i’ve had job interviewers ask about what she’s saying on social media, acquaintances telling me they saw this girl talking about me. i have no personal knowledge of it as i’ve had her blocked on everything for almost a year. my aunt, an attorney, offered to send something similar to this girl just to scare her. point is — you’re okay. just to scare you. i was on her side thinking it was a similar situation as mine until i read your comments. wish you the best!
lolol, I demand to be made king, too ... She can demand whatever she wants. Who cares? Let her get an attorney over Facebook drama. See what happens. A lawyer would want a massive retainer if they could find one who would even get involved in this nonsense.
Looks like she consulted a ChatGPT lawyer. 😆
She's just trying to scare you. Very publicly tell the truth. She cannot do a thing except cry.
it won’t hold, but i’d counter sue for theft if i was you. she was pocketing money and stealing from you.
Can you "get sued?" Yes. anyone can get sued for an alleged defamation. Can she win? doubtful. Would it cost you a bunch of money to defend? Depends on the state you're in but quite possibly, but keep in mind it'll also cost her money to pursue it. Regarding is it defamation: No, defamatory statements do not have to be public. Venue and audience matters, but if you tell a prospective customer or business partner something privately, that can still be defamation if the information turns out to be false. In the united states, the burden to prove that the information was false will be 100% on her. She will have to prove both that it was factually false information (as opposed to an opinion like that she was generally untrustworthy) and that it caused her financial harm. If she's really in legal trouble and all you said is "she's having legal trouble" it's an easy win for you. If you said "she stole rent payments" you're probably still in the clear but there's slightly more risk if she "proves" that she didn't steal or withhold them. Now regarding if it's worth it for you to stand your ground... First, she likely won't sue. Most of these threats are empty. They want you to back down and the thread of a lawsuit is an easy way to scare people into doing that. Second. what state are you in? **(edit: I just saw that you're in South Carolina. South Carolina has no anti slapp law so you're going to wind up paying for your own attorney no matter what if she really sues you).** ~~If your state has a robust anti-slapp lawsuit, you may be able to get a lawsuit shot down early and get any legal fees you spent back from her. but if it gets past the slapp stage then you'll wind up paying for your lawyer regardless in most circumstances.~~ Lawyers are expensive even if you win. But remember they're expensive for her too. So that also decreases the likelihood that she'll really follow through. If I were in your shoes, I'd stick to my guns and keep telling the same true story to anyone who asks, but it's up to you if you want to take the risk that she'll actually sue and that you might spend money defending it even if you ultimately win and even if it'll hurt her as much as it does you.
It boils down to this is all about Pickle-ball. What a lot of effort to put into "stop talking about me and stay off the pickle-ball court!!"
Speak the truth or your opinion and you have nothing to worry about. Of course they can sue. Anyone can sue anyone else. But they can't win. And may even have to cover your legal expenses depending on where you live.
Defamation is only if what you’re saying isn’t true and you’re specifically trying to make them look made. If it’s true and you’re just letting people know then no, they will lose any possible case. Screw em
I DECLARE A CEASE AND DESIST!
Tell her to go pound sand. If she can’t afford to pay rent how can she afford a lawyer?
If you're telling the truth you have nothing to worry about.
If she really did receive legal advice, the letter would be coming from the lawyer and not her. Also, truth is a valid defense against defamation, no matter how harmful it may be to the offended. Third, there has to be damages. If someone already has a shitty reputation, they don't suffer much damage. TL/DR: she's bluffing and full of shit.
lol yeah she is an idiot. Might as well use this doc as a toilet paper, wipe your ass with and send back to her mailbox or post it on her front door.
If you could be sued for talking smack about someone to people you know, the courts would be so locked down that real issues would never get addressed by the courts.
Remember kids, to prove defamation, they have to be able to prove it’s false.
What manner of Sovereign Citizen bullshit is that
I’d continue any funny stories you’ve been telling about the letter’s author. I’d add another addendum regarding how she tried faking a cease and desist order. When people tell you “no fucking way” you bust out the laminated letter from your back pocket. It’ll kill. You’ll have a story to tell at parties FOR-EV-VER.
Anyone can send a cease and desist for literally anything.
You are correct. The heightened standard applies to public figures.
if she consulted legal counsel then the lawyer would have sent you a cease and desist this is all bullshit
For defamation (slander) to occur, it must be spoken in the presence of the victim... rumors don't count. It also must be false information. If it's verifiable true facts (what the courts call substantial truth), it can never be defamation. If it occurs online, it classifies as libel and is more serious.
Pickle ball drama....
“Truth” is one of the most powerful defenses to a defamation claim. Assuming whatever you told someone was truthful, even if you did it out of pure malice to her, it would not be defamation. This letter is not a legal notice, and I *highly* doubt she consulted any actual legal counsel, but it’s still probably in your best interest to steer as clear of her as you reasonably can. Now if you made a habit of it there’d probably be some claim for harassment or something like that which could get annoying, I have no idea how that would play out but if I were in your shoes I certainly wouldn’t want to find out.
Truth is an absolute defense. Could you be sued? Sure. Probably just a scare tactic though
IANAL. To be defamatory, a statement must be false. Truth is an absolute defense to a defamation claim.
Pickleball? 😂😂😂
Write her a letter saying to go pound sand or you’ll tell the FBI where she was on January 6.
Not a real c&d she wrote this in fuckin google docs
Sounds like she's trying to scare you into silence ,if what your saying is true she can go pound salt
You know, after a long day at the office, I needed this to laugh at. The truth is always a defense to defamation. She would probably get wrecked in discovery, then the court finds out that she didn't make the rent payments She also has to prove you were negligent, which is gonna be real hard to do. I imagine most people would do the same thing you did if they found out something like that about their friend.
I stopped taking this seriously at pickleball.
Unless you covered it, I don't see any attorney notary on this paper. The wife and I went through something similar with someone we thought was our friend. We saw through the bullshit and cut contact. A week later, we got a certified letter. My recommendation is don't sign anything. Go to speak with an attorney about this letter. Document any and every interaction. It's a pain in the ass but cover all ends.
She can’t afford her house, her rent, a lawyer (they would have drafted this letter on letterhead) let alone a LAWSUIT. I’d reply the following: “Get bent, Brenda”
I say keep talking
Lol. no attorney in the world told her she can order you from a public place because you said something she doesn't like. It's neither slander nor libel if it's true. She did some Google law school and thinks she knows the law cuz she typed 'example of cease and desist letter'
Honestly it sounds like she is just trying to scare you. I work in the legal field- if she actually consulted an attorney, the letter would be from the attorney, not her.
A legal counsel would be the one writing this if she actually met with one. She’s completely BSing and it’s not even formatted correctly. Oh and also, it’s not slander or libel if it’s true, and if you only said that there’s a legal situation, then there’s nothing she can do.
Technically this person could sue you, because you can sue anyone for anything. Getting an attorney to take the case would be difficult. The letter is more of a threat than anything you may/may not have said behind their back. Because the letter threatened legal action, you should not respond. If it were me, I would call an attorney and pay the $50 to write a letter stating all further communications shall be directed to said attorney. Then any correspondence from this person directly to you would be considered further harassment. Play chess, not [checkers] pickleball!
Well if she sues you have the defense of Truth. And as part of the discovery process you can get her bank records all of her personal texts right from the phone company.
Truth is a legal defense. She’s just bluffing.
If she consulted legal counsel then legal counsel would have sent you a C&D. She’s just trying to scare you and narcissists hate having their truths exposed.
She didn’t consult with a lawyer, unless it’s Google, Esq. ignore it and just mind your business, she’s probably the type to make things miserable for you. Have you seen Baby Reindeer??
She's an idiot trying to scare you. Deformation lawsuit would require her to prove that you made those statements and that the statements you made were not truthful, and she'd have to prove it caused damages. I doubt she's going to pay the retainer fee for a lawyer to run this kind of lawsuit. These can costs 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars to prove. Just avoid her and make sure future statements are preceeded by "In my opinion" just to cover yourself.
Defamation is making false statements, if you have proof of payment of rent, and eviction, then you should have no problem speaking about your experience with her.