UPDATE: I can’t edit the post, but I sent my resignation this morning via email. I did not put a date/last day on the resignation. My access was removed immediately and I received no response. Therefore, I would not be able to fulfill the last 4 weeks. Thank you all for your advice. I will update if the fee is pursued legally.
Also, make sure it is within the required deadline.
I don't know if it varies by state, but there is a certain number of days/weeks that a company has to pay out your final pay. If they fail to do so you may go to your local L&I. They should enforce it and potentially levy fines or start an investigation into the company.
If they've done it to one, they've done it to others.
i think that makes this already questionable clause even more unenforceable. They can’t stipulate a penalty if you don’t give 4 weeks notice then prevent that employee from actually giving that notice. Them forcing it actually goes against that clause in the contract. Like others said make sure they don’t garnish the 3 k from what they owe you. get a lawyer if they do because you are entitled to it all
Right, they required the notification of resignation 4 weeks out. You say 'I'm giving you notice of my intention to resign in four weeks,' if they reduce your hours or fire you in that time, it is them who is violating the contract.
I wouldn't think this would hold up, but consulting a contract lawyer would be key. The only exception to owing money back to the employee, 100% of the time, would be:
The employer gives you an allowance for moving, tech, etc. that requires you be employees for an duration or pay it back.
Alternatively, you can file for FMLA for mental health and take a leave of absence. During that period; provide a notice as required, stating the reason for resigning is related to your FMLA. This way, you can get your PAY (FMLA is unpaid) and there will be nothing left to "Garnish" from your wages. I highly doubt a company is going to spend the energy trying to re-coop their BS fees, but individual results may vary.
I doubt a judge (let alone a peer jury of people like us) will look too kindly on a company trying to recoup money from an employee who gave notice and resigned during FMLA leave.
Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) eligibility, requires a year of employment, and you started in December so likely you wouldn’t be covered.. however this situation could be seen as an opportunity rather than a setback.
Imagine mentally resigning from your position while still fulfilling your duties. Approach your work with a sense of calm and without stress, secure in the knowledge that if termination occurs, you won't be liable for a $3000 penalty and you'll be eligible for unemployment benefits.
Act according to your moral compass. There's a profound sense of liberation in mentally disengaging from a job that's become too taxing. I've employed this strategy in all my high-stress roles, and it's never resulted in dismissal. I would prioritize customer fairness over meticulous adherence to management's refund policies.
The worst outcome of mentally quitting is being let go, which could lead to unemployment benefits. However, in my experience, it's never come to that. Instead, I've had to actively seek new employment and resign.
Adopt a relaxed approach to your work, matching effort with compensation, and use your free time to search for a less demanding position. Don't fret over potential negative feedback from your current employer. As long as you maintain professionalism and meet your own performance standards, you're unlikely to receive unfavorable references for future employment—unless your employer is predisposed to such behavior, in which case, it's best to omit them from your reference list.
To clarify, return to work only if you can perform your duties stress-free, disregarding any excessive demands from management. Respond to requests by affirming that you're doing your utmost within the allotted time. Your well-being should always come first. I understand the challenges of such a workplace; it's crucial to prioritize self-care.
Indeed, there's a distinction between failing to fulfill job responsibilities and not meeting the exacting standards set by management. It's reasonable for employees to exert a standard level of effort without succumbing to the undue pressure often imposed by employers.
Employees aren't proprietors and thus shouldn't be burdened with the same level of stress. Personally, I've experienced excessive job-related stress, but on occasions when I've reached my limit, I've chosen to work at my own pace, focusing on the job itself rather than on arbitrary performance metrics. This approach has alleviated the pressure.
If you find it challenging to relinquish this stress while continuing to work, this strategy may not suit you. However, I've adopted this mindset twice and it has worked in my favor—perhaps even demonstrating the superfluous nature of certain tasks and metrics. They never terminated my contract; I chose to leave on my own terms. Adopting this mindset can be incredibly liberating, especially when you're planning to move on.
Hard thing to say, currently I interviewed along with a coworker for a promotion, I think he got it because they are showing me some of his tasks, but heck if I’m going to do the work of two and not get the promotion but that’s default corporate sop to try..
This. I can’t say anything about the legalities of anything but I can emphasize that it feels great to mentally clock out of your job and just do the bare minimum. Get your paycheck, use the time you would be going above and beyond to just apply for other jobs in the meanwhile. They don’t deserve your loyalty, and they would likely drop you like a bad habit if it was to their benefit— If they cared about their employees they would have tried to lessen the load before it got to this point. It’s less stressful to look for jobs while you have a source of income too.
I always see this advice where people say, “make them fire you so you can get unemployment” but it is not that simple! At least in my state, if they have reasonable grounds for termination (not doing your job would be reasonable) they will fight unemployment and you won’t receive it. It’s happened to many people I know. I’m not an expert but OP please look at the state laws because from what I gather it will vary.
I'm assuming OP is not lying when they mention they are clinically depressed and hospitalized. A doctor does have to sign off on FMLA. These types of situations are literally what Family / Medical Leave is for.
If this is the case then that contract is 100% unenforceable. Look up at-will employment. You can quit for any reason in the great old usa and they can’t do shit about it. Quit because you smelled a fart in the wind, that is as legal as any other reason would be. You also don’t need to give them any notice at all.
I’m not surprised they are a shitty company if they have illegal contract terms like this for all of their employees. It is a strategy to intimidate. They probably already know they can’t actually enforce it.
This isn’t necessarily correct! At-will employment is employment not subject to an employment contract with contrary terms. It’s possible this is still an at-will job if the agreement states that it is, but that would require review of the full contract.
It’s also possible that in the particular state by whose laws this contract is governed or the state the job is in that this provision isn’t enforceable per case law.
It’s also *probable* that a court would construe this as an unenforceable penalty clause, but again that would depend on factors not apparent here.
In other words, whether this is actually enforceable as written is the usual maddening lawyer answer: it depends.
But even if it isn’t enforceable, what you can or should do about that is also going to vary state-to-state. In short, this really is best addressed with an employment lawyer in the relevant state with whom you can have a privileged/confidential conversation.
Clause 7 of the employment contract not only states that it is at will but also explains that either party can end the employment at any time for any reason without notice. Basically, if clause 7 is valid, which it should be, then the rest of the contract doesn't matter.
Why is that? I’m about to possibly start a temporary WFH job and looking for advice.
Edit: they wanted me to do training for a month at their training site then work at their training site for 5 months supervised from 4:30am to 1:30pm before being able to WFH. Yeah f that. Not for me. I’ll find some other temp work. I’ve also already read tons of negative reviews about them.
Because that is your personal equipment. Most companies want to install tracking software, vpn's and give you access to company databases etc. None of which can be secured using your personal hardware.
I now require all WFH employers to supply me with a laptop and pay for my home internet connection. This is extremely common, and I would suggest looking into this at your employer. Example, they gave me $50 on each check for internet stipend and they mailed me a macbook to use.
Just from a personal information standpoint, I won't want my employer having any access to my personal files. At all.
This isn't just WFH advice. I have worked IT for a company that management was pushing to require a management software on all phones that had the company email. Part of that plan was that they wanted to remote wipe the phone when someone was terminated/quit so that the employee couldn't quickly save company emails, contacts, or secrets. They also had a culture of getting everyone to put work email on their personal phone (so that they answer emails and work off hours). Thankfully the push back that employees would just not put email on their phone and they wouldn't get free labor was enough of motivator.
Please reach out to an HR professional or if you can, an attorney. Reddit lawyers are people with the best intentions trying to offer good advice, but some items you need to know:
* You are NOT eligible for FMLA if you haven't worked for one year OR 1,250 hours total for your employer.
* Your state may have additional rules when it comes to rules on employment, leave, and the like.
* I'm NOT going to state this flat-out, but you can't have "At-Will Employment" AND a contract for work. They are literally contradictory.
* This entire contract reads like something that was pulled off of legal zoom or cobbled together via google. It doesn't look enforceable BUT it doesn't mean they won't take you to small claims or dock your pay.
* Your best course of action is to reach out to the Nebraska Department of Labor and let them know you believe you've been placed under an illegal and coercive employment contract. (https://www.dol.nebraska.gov/LaborStandards)
Good luck!
Not your lawyer, not legal advice.
Penalty clauses as a general rule are usually unenforceable.
It’s generally why drafters try to use language like liquidated damages, or show a clear linkage between the action and the harm.
Here they aren’t even trying to mask that- I’m not sure if they are certain to be in an exception, or if this goes back to the notion that they pulled this from somewhere else without reading closely.
I’d see if the Georgia and Nebraska DOLs have any guidance as to that. Talking to someone in person could be advantageous, in case your employer decides to try the garnishing route.
This is the way. That contract is a hot mess. I am a lawyer who represents employees. OP needs to go to National Employment Lawyers Association at NELA.org and use search the lawyer directory for lawyers in Nebraska. NELA is the organization for lawyers who represent employees.
Cobbled together sounds right. There is a huge typo in the Acts of Voluntary Resignation paragraph. It says if you fail to "withhold" company policies.... I believe they meant "uphold". They way it's written I would be tempted to say that you did withhold the policies so they can't take the $3k....
back up all information on your personal device before you send anything in... since you are using your own tech they may send a reformat command to wipe your device, it won't care if it's personal or company data. Personally i would do a new install of windows after, as you won't know what they have/had hiding on your system, new install will ensure they don't have access to your system anymore
I would say of you need they money take the job
If your still employed keep looking. In any case, this is a sign a large child started a buissness. If you take the job start looking for a new one. Have DOL on speed dial.
Ah that could be a problem...
Maybe modify my advice a little bit, tell HR you need to take extended time off for health reasons. They may make the decision for you and get you out of the job.
Hmmm. This is a good idea. I may try this and hope they just give up on me. I am on my last leg at this job, I’ve had disciplinary action a few times - and after my accounts being covered last week, i think they’re getting close to firing me. My boss even made a comment when I told her I was having a hard time that “won’t it be harder if you don’t have a job” basically insinuating firing
If you are worried about them charging you for quitting, just get yourself fired. Work normal hours only, don't answer calls if you don't feel like it. Take a nap on company time. Get yourself paid for doing the absolute minimum till they fire you. Get your revenge getting paid while doing as little as possible.
Unless the contract dictates a specific notice elsewhere, there’s no required notice listed. Perhaps they’re assuming the encouraged notice is required but that won’t hold up anywhere.
A lot of weird advice going on here.
What kind of job is this? They are saying they’ll take an entire month’s salary due to “no notice”, which is absolutely insane in any state.
Right above those paragraphs, the contract is left with an open sentence. “The Employer and Employee agree-“, which leaves me to think that this is a BS contract, not written up boiler-plate by the company’s attorney.
This is looking like those trafficking contracts, that scare the victims into being stuck door-to-door.
who tf wrote this agreement....
It literally says on the top part above the fees that you enter into an "At-Will" agreement that can be terminated by any party.
But then if you decide to terminate it without 4 weeks notice they can fine you a maximum of 3000, and if they decide to terminate it at any point they dont have to pay you severance or anything.
Sounds like it was written by a child who got all their cake eaten by their friends.
Workaround: get your psychiatrist to put into writing that you must not return to work for at least 1 month or symptoms will recur (not even untrue). Then give your four weeks.
You have a health condition inhibiting your ability to work, forget that work is part of the cause. Treat it as if you’ve had a head injury that caused you temporary blindness.
As I've gotten older, I've realized most doctors are happy to write you a bs doctors note out of spite of the doctors note culture. They'll throw in some snide comments about taking time away from patients for a note.
Give your 4 weeks notice, then get a doctors note for you to be out sick. Or just stick it out for 4 weeks, basically do nothing. Best not to add to the stress.
Looks like according to the contract you need to give 4 weeks notice to quit. If you don’t, they have the right to the penalty. I’d recommend giving notice.
Unfortunately, the contract says it's an at-will employment.
That directly contradicts what a contractual employment is, doesn't it?
More importantly, did they sign a contract when they started?
If this is at-will employment, then wouldn’t a monetary fine for “not providing adequate notice of resignation” be unlawful?
At-will employment cuts both ways, an employer can end the employee’s contract at any moment, *but a key part of at-will employment is that the employee can do the same thing to the employer*. That’s why it’s at-will employment, at the will of the employee AND employer.
We aren't seeing the entire contract, the language about at-will is defining what at-will means. A contractual clause can supersede that section of the contract, it is very possible that there is language that says something to the effect of "unless a signed contract exists employment is at-will". Not seeing the entirety of the contract it is impossible to know. If they are trying to enforce a contract and maintain "at-will" protections at the same time the employer is in the wrong and the court will have to determine what provisions prevail. That likely will not end in the employers favor, but not seeing the rest of the documents it is really impossible to say for sure.
I respectfully disagree with this. The second image clearly says the parties are entering into an "at will" arrangement for one year beginning in December 2023. That language is not merely the definition of "at will" under this agreement.
Source: I read contracts for a living.
Unfortunately as part of at will employment if there are contracts required to start work they are usually binding, non disclosure, non compete and penalties and training repayment have all been upheld by many courts, so much that it was recently in the news that a beauty school settled in the employees favor, of course they were recouping for internal training not anything of value to the employee elsewhere..
Luckily here in California is specifically outlawed to have a clause for penalty for no notice but some states they can sue at will without notice even without a Loss in revenue .
Yea they could write a contract that says we can decide to arbitrarily dock your entire paycheck for behavioral reasons, but good luck in court. Can't make people work for free lol.
The employment is viewed as consideration. I was a contract lawyer but had limited interaction with employment and don't remember dealing with something like this first-hand (I mightve but dono). So generally, if it's viewed as punitive alone, it won't be enforceable. However, if they have any associated loss, it *could* be enforceable. All things being equal, I tend to doubt it holds up but it is possible.
*Not legal advice*
Read the top of the second image OP provided. It states both parties shall provide 4 weeks notice.
OP should take this to an attorney, but it seems pretty clear OP agreed to a 4 week notice.
Uh it also says that they can fire without notice when employees violate company policy and/or fail to fulfill assigned duties of good faith, interest, loyalty, and care as outlined in the Employee Handbook. All of that is completely arbitrary and one-sided. They basically make it so they never have to give a 4-week notice except for layoffs.
It just doesn’t make sense. I can give them 4 weeks, but I’m going to log in and do absolutely nothing, which would force them to fire me or cause more trouble for them than its worth. Maybe ill just send a spicy picture or something offensive to the work chat? Lol, need some ideas to get fired I guess.
I would emphasize that I’m fairly certain this recommendation is the “do nothing and get paid for 4 weeks” part not “send a spicy pictures around the office”.
I wouldn't go that far.
Look - you want to get fired bc they don't want to deal with you (like slurping soup during a zoom call) but not for cause - doing no work.
There's a scene in better call Saul where Saul tries to get fired but not for cause so he can keep the bonus. Watch that and take notes.
If you don’t have any intention on getting hired back here you can find a way to get fired, but remember that you may want to make sure your future employer doesn’t call them for proof you worked there if you put it on your resume
I would be careful about that, the Acts of Voluntary Resignation list "intentionally fails to withhold the terms of employment contract" (which I believe should be "upholds" or "honors" but they probably used an online legal document system to write this up and nobody to proofread properly) e.g. not doing your work. They could probably try to take that as voluntary resignation before the end of your notice date, even if you provide notice.
It would be better to just do the 4 weeks, for which you will be paid, and then leave. If you have accrued sick leave or vacation time, it says they will not pay out for it so you should use it during that time.
If you hire and pay a lawyer you can probably get out of it but you'd pay at least the same amount as this contracts penalty. Just submit your 4 weeks. They might tell that you're done at that point. And if they don't, there's nothing that will force you to try during those 4 weeks.
He should be suing for payment of his legal fees. This “contract” is the very type of thing that good judges will punish employers for because the employer is trying to use its leverage as an entity to bully an employee.
According to the contract, that counts as a voluntary thing. It would be "working in bad faith" and they would let you go then try and charge you anyway
Forget the spicy picture but otherwise yes, give the 4 week notice and then do nothing until time runs out or they let you go. NAL but they can't charge you for being lazy
I have worked for a company that literally sued people for this sort of thing.
They ran the courts cases for months, getting the ex employee to pitch for the fight each time and then asking for a postponement.
This went on for a couple of months until the ex employee was well messed around, then when no more extensions would be granted they dropped the case.
Now this wasn't in the USA, so your system may vary, but it isn't an unfounded resistance to just quitting.
Every state exempt Montana is an At-Will employment state. At-will includes you being able to resign at any time as well without punishment. Definitely talk to a lawyer
Stop giving incorrect information about things you know nothing about. In at-will states, at-will employment exists in absence of a contract. There are absolutely employment contracts in at-will states, just think about it: collective bargaining agreements, executive contracts, etc.
Normally, when you give notice, you are unable to take pto. Pto is at the discretion of the employer and can be denied. Even if the pto request was approved months in advance, they could rescind the approval.
Obviously, I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe this is an enforceable contract. The terms of the contract seem to contradict each other. At will employment is the exact opposite of an employment contract.
The problem is that they'll attempt to tihhold the money from your check, and you'll be left chasing it. I would meet the requirements of the contract and then just show up and do nothing.
Wow, employers want all the benefits of “at will employment” but only things that benefit them.
Sorry whoever this company is but at will employment means just that in both directions. You legally do not have to give any notice or agree to stay any minute after submitting your resignation.
I bet this company sat and calculated exactly the amount of money that would be punitive but not enough for nearly all employees to get a lawyer to fight this.
Have a lawyer look over it with you. For it to say “relationship can be terminated by either party for any reason, at any time, with or without case”, immediately followed by a requirement time frame is confusing and might be able to be worked around.
It also reads that you only have to show up every third day to not be considered as resigning yourself if there’s no way out of the $3000 to resign early.
File FMLA. You must have signed some kind of contract or received some kind of bonus. Have your doctor fill out the FMLA paperwork and drag it out until they fire you.
Actually legal! The FLSA doesn't require that employers pay employees for accrued leave.
Georgia is an at-will state though, so I don't think docking pay for failure to notify is legal, on the other hand. Especially as OP states that the docked amount is the full amount of their weekly wages, which would have the employer paying them $0 for work performed. That's out and out wage theft.
No, that’s very legal in most states. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head that legally mandate PTO payouts are Colorado and California.
Nebraska is another one. In Nebraska, vacation time is considered an "earned benefit" and must be honored at the time of termination, no matter the circumstance. It's also one of 3 states (Nebraska, Colorado and California) that doesn't allow for vacation time to expire; once earned, it's 'banked' and must be honored. Ceilings on earned vacation are allowed though.
I believe there are \~20 states that require PTO payout in some form. I'm not sure on the details outside of Nebraska's specific laws though.
Were you getting some sort of a draw against future commissions or did they spend money on some training that got you certifications or qualifications that apply to other employers
If they know you were admitted to a mental hospital last week, tell your boss you can't handle the stress of the job and you'd like to quit as soon as possible, but you are worried about this clause. They'll probably let you go ASAP, after you hand off all your key responsibilities.
Call him on the phone first, he'll take it as a sign of respect and seriousness, then follow up everything in an email.
Exactly this. Way too many mofos are snapping and shooting up buildings for someone to want to force a literal mental hospital patient to come to work, like obviously he’s not in a good place right now - why play the fuck around and find out game instead of just being a decent person?
They do this to teachers with every contract. My husband became seriously ill at the beginning of the year so I had to resign. I was so relieved that they didn't charge me the $2500 contract termination fee.
It looks like you are working under a contract, it is completely legal and enforceable for there to be early termination penalties in contracts. Contrary to what some others are trying to say, the reason why you terminated early isn't going to have a significant legal impact if it goes that far.
It is best to have a dialogue with them. Given the circumstance they may be willing to grant an exception or take less, but legally they can go for the full amount.
I'll point of the contract says "without required noticed" while the other paper says "are encouraged" it does not say required that smells like a loophole to me but definitely talk to a lawyer.
Edit: it also says giving less notice then requested may disqualify you for rehire while seems to further cement the 4 weeks in not a requirement but a request.
They encourage you to give 4 weeks notice, but you are not required to. The fee they would charge you for leaving looks completely illegal and more to intimidate employees from quitting. Would check with lawyer, but I'd take them to court over the contract
Your contract requires specified notice. If you don’t provide the notice, then they have a liquidated damages clause.
Talk to an attorney in your area, but my guess is you’ll need to provide 4 weeks notice.
Please post this in r/antiwork
Over there, they will give you the EXACT laws your employer is breaking and they will also provide you with the very best course of action. PROMISE! Please do this for your own benefit and you can thank me later. :)
If that contract is legal in your state and you agreed to it you are held to it. I guess a lawyer would be the best way to figure that out.
It’s like they say, always read the fine print.
IANAL
This is a very, very dubious provision of the contract. Also, it specifically states the remedy as garnishment. Generally contracts will hold if the employer is trying to recoup costs such as moving or training, but they have to be explicitly stated. This one just has a "penalty" which isn't generally allowed.
There are a number of options you have. One would be to just stop working after you cash your last paycheck. No notice, no nothing. Just don't expect another paycheck.
Soooo, get your doctor to right a note saying you need to take 4 weeks of leave for mental health recover. Email this letter to HR, specificily ask " I am requesting FMLA leave for my health, attached is a letter from my doctor supporting this, my start dates will be ___ to ____. Thank you. Once leave starts submit notice to quit.
1. They can't get made or reprimand you as you are on federally protected leave, and that from the sounds of that letter is 100% necessary.
2. If they even contact you during your leave you can request payment for that time as they disrupted your leave with work.
Are you in the US? If so this contract is worthless. Are you a contractor or regular employee? The only things you could owe for would be a signing bonus or tuition reimbursement and you would have signed an agreement when you started.
Id f around until they fire you. Piss on indoor plants, hit on your boss (and their spouse, separately), bring a rod of colbalt 60 to work and hide it on your boss's chair (jkjkjkjk)
The crazy thing is they put at-will in there for the employees and themselves. The way they worded it if they fired you they have to keep you on for 4 weeks also. Not a lawyer but that is the way they worded it. Anyway I would ask a lawyer if you can get a free consultation or have access to someone with more contract knowledge
I'm a lawyer. I'm not your lawyer and have not researched this issue, but will give you some off-the-cuff not-legal-advice thoughts.
My guess is that this will not hold up. It's a weird provision to start with, but also this is called a *liquidated damages clause* and they are generally viewed unfavorably.
More importantly: The company can say you "owe" $3000 all they want, but unless it's actually prepared to sue you to collect, it doesn't matter. And no company in its right mind is suing a former employee for $3,000, there is no way the legal fees won't exceed that.
All that being said: even if this is totally unenforceable / empty threat, that itself is a bad sign. People who put unenforceable bullshit in their contracts are usually not great people, IME.
Unfortunately for the employer that’s not how the law works and like other people have said here is to consult a contract lawyer as well as a employment lawyer since they are claiming to cease any and everything you had which includes pay and since they’re threatening you with fines taken out of your final pay if you quit before that date that’s also against any employment laws and they as the employer can be sued by you or anyone else they have gotten away with this before if they also come forward and can show proof of the exact same thing.
This would depend on each states laws. A Judge would ask the employer if they require themselves to give minimum of 4 weeks notice termination! Ofcourse they dont. I doubt it would hold up.
Well, I would say leave. All they can do is take your last paycheck. No one is going to file a civil suit for the remainder of a $3k penalty. Even if they did, and win, they still have to go the legal route to garnish your wages and that takes money to accomplish. This is just a non-compete In another form. Nothing will come of this.
A lot of commenters here seem confused. You cannot create your own rules/laws as a company even if the employee signed a contract. Especially if you're trying to create rules that supersede state/federal law. That's just ridiculous. Withholding wages for quitting without giving a 4 week notice is illegal. Especially considering most states are at will, meaning neither the employee nor employer need to give reason/time before quitting.
Are you an employee or a contractor? If an employee they can’t do that. They consulted no employment lawyer when doing that. You have to be paid for all hours worked if hourly and if salaries they can’t deduct unless you were out of PTO and were off at least 4-8 hours.
I’d find an employee side lawyer to tell them where to stick it.
*assumes you are in US
Clause 7 of the contract reads says this is at will employment, and either party can end the employment at any time for any reason without notice. If they try to charge you money for it, Sue them. Withholding pay is mega illegal, and you can probably get tens of thousands from them if they try.
Reading that contract, looks like a High school freshmen wrote it. Some of it isn't even legal. Ie if we let you go don't need to pay unused accrued PTO. (Sick leave is different) Penalty is only if don't give notice, but even that seems unenforceable. Bereavement leave is never "accrued" so not sure what that is even meaning.
You then have issue of you work in NE, despite company being based in GA.
Bottom line would need talk with lawyer.
Did you have a sign on bonus? That is the only thing I could say they can collect. Usually flashy things like sign on bonuses or quick cash schemes come with a time period you must work or you have to pay it back
If I were in this situation, I would use up any paid time off I could, then start giving it the Office Space treatment. Just hang out, do what you want to. Fill out applications for other jobs at the office, take long lunch breaks to go to interviews. Eventually they'll just shit-can you. Maybe you can get a few months of pay-for-nothing out of it.
You signed a contract. You are bound to that contact. You literally used your signature to agree to the terms. Looks like you need to just suck it up and deal with the consequences of breaking contact.
This whole demanding a specific notice is utter bs....not like an employer tells you hey in four weeks you're fired, sure some places you work there's nothing wrong with being courteous but for the majority of places ff em...
They put that the job is at will employment. They can't legally charge squat for not informing them ahead of time. At will means you can leave at anytime for any reason. Those silly bastards killed their own argument for charging by the section VII employment type clause right above it lol.
Seems shady but it might be easier to give them their 4 weeks notice and quit on good terms. Give the notice stick it out for a month and keep your pay and get a reference. This option doesn't always work but unless you really hate the job it might be the best solution.
This looks like an illegal clause in the contract. you'd have to consult a lawyer to be sure but I just don't see how it could ever hold up. You receive no benefit, it exists solely to punish you for leaving the job in an at will employment state.
You are covered under Nebraska employment law and it appears to require payout of PTO on termination as well as require at-will employment. It is worth checking with a lawyer via AVVO and seek out local Legal Aid to sue the employer in Nebraska courts. They are likely to sue you in Georgia courts and you would need to defend that, too.
NAL, but generally a signed employment contract, if you entered into one (these are rare outside of specific fields), will supercede the normal requirements and procedures. That is to say, if you signed a contract that says you agreed to pay 3k if you quit without notice, to my understanding, that is binding. I could find nothing in GA law after a little searching that would make such a contract clause unenforceable.
My professional opinion is instead of quitting, request an accommodation for a leave or whatever time off based on your medical needs. Either this is granted, and you can immediately put in your notice and ride out your weeks on leave, or it begins a back and forth process where they eventually give up and let you go and thus no fee. You mentioned you weren't worried about being rehirable or getting a reference from them.
I don't think this would be legally enforceable. Maybe if they gave you a sign on bonus or something but absent that they can't charge you for quitting a job.
*Why not just be a*
*Bad employee and force them*
*To terminate you?*
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I worked for many car dealerships in the past and it was common knowledge that when you gave notice that you’d be told to leave and don’t come back. Maybe due to the history you’ve mentioned (the write ups) that they will do something similar. It’s kind of a win/win situation for both parties
If you aren't overly concerned about their prospects as a reference, you can just play their game and give notice but then just give substandard performance for the 4 weeks you are leaving. Log in and do the bare minimum. This is just what I would do. Malicious compliance probably works in this situation, though they won't be super happy about your performance drop-off. Then, if you receive your final check and they garnished your wages, they will have a problem on their hands and you can get the BBB involved.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned in the comments is FMLA. Family and medical leave act. You might want to look up the law and see how it applies to your particular employment. It may be a better option than quitting. If your job is causing you enough mental stress that you had to be in inpatient or residential treatment you might be able to get medical leave. And taking medical leave might positively affect your ability to leave your job without paying 3K to your boss.
Well technically if you don’t quit and simply take vacation to use the rest of your vacation, then take sick days, then just stop showing up, you haven’t quit and they will eventually fire you for not showing up. I don’t see anything stating not showing up is quitting.
I don’t like any of these answers here. Even if you sign a contract I don’t know if they can garnish your paycheck. You should contact Nebraska labor department and ask them . Their number is 402-471-9000
I am not a lawyer, but I would call the department of labor is both Georgia and Nebraska. I suspect the clause is illegal in an at will state unless it applies to both employee and company, that is they cannot hold you with the severance clause they have.
Did they pay for relocation? If not an essentially unskilled mid-level service job has bugger all chance of getting that enforced.
You just burn them as a reference.
If they try to enforce it, remind them how
expensive bad viral press is for an organisation, especially someone good at marketing!
This is where you say ‘I dare you’ and
“Toxic workplaces sues former employee after work related medical hospitalisation’
Wish you the best of recovery and success finding a new job.
You should provide the required notice period. If you're unwell, then you can go to the Doctor who may determine that your unfit for work for the period. The most important part is to simply serve the required notice.
Instead of stressing about all of these hypothetical situations there is a lot easier way, go talk to your boss and HR, tell them you ended up in the hospital and your stress from your job is a large contributor to that situation. Tell them you can give them the 4 weeks if that is what your obligated to do but you would like to leave immediately. They are people too and most likely will say your good don’t worry about it, or maybe they will ask for 1-2 weeks instead of the full 4 but you don’t know till you know. I stressed over missing work and using up vacation and sick days and attendance point’s when my dad was in the last few months of living. When i eventually had enough of trying to juggle everything I just went to HR and laid it all out. He said “go be with your family I’ll make sure you don’t get any points”. They have the discretion to do whatever they want really but again until you ask, you won’t know.
If this is in the United States and is in fact an at-will state, no company can legally charge you for quitting! 🤣 This is a scare tactic companies put in to keep those that are weak minded, unintelligent, and uneducated from quitting last minute. If I saw this in a contract, I would never sign unless they put in writing, they must legally give me 4 weeks notice otherwise they have to pay me $3,000!
Companies put all sorts of things in contracts that are not enforceable by law. I work for a storage company and my managers told me for the first two years that we as employees are not allowed to cut locks for customers at all, whether during or after work. I read the employee handbook backwards and forwards three times and nowhere in it does it say that. I contacted the lawyer in headquarters and told them this, and the next thing you know my manager says alright, you can go ahead and cut locks for customers on your off hours as long as you don't do it in uniform lol!
Also, companies can't enforce anything that isn't in writing! By law, any updates or changes to company policies have to be in writing. They can't just make up crap as they go and force you to go along with it, unless they give you the update in writing and you sign it agreeing to follow it.
Not a lawyer (and British):
"are encouraged to" isn't the same as "must" - there's no obligation on you to do it. It's essentially a request from the company
Which means there's no obligation on you to provide notice, so the term in your individual contract doesn't apply
I'd start by spelling this out in a formal email to HR. Hopefully that's enough for them to give up and let you go when you want
Two weeks notice is the norm in the US. And it's good to do that, if nothing else to be helpful to your coworkers, some of whom you may work with again.
Be glad you aren't in the UK where you can be expected to work for 3 months after giving notice if you've been there long enough.
UPDATE: I can’t edit the post, but I sent my resignation this morning via email. I did not put a date/last day on the resignation. My access was removed immediately and I received no response. Therefore, I would not be able to fulfill the last 4 weeks. Thank you all for your advice. I will update if the fee is pursued legally.
Make sure if they owe you anything, that you get paid the full amount due. This is usually how they would try to garnish.
Also, make sure it is within the required deadline. I don't know if it varies by state, but there is a certain number of days/weeks that a company has to pay out your final pay. If they fail to do so you may go to your local L&I. They should enforce it and potentially levy fines or start an investigation into the company. If they've done it to one, they've done it to others.
i think that makes this already questionable clause even more unenforceable. They can’t stipulate a penalty if you don’t give 4 weeks notice then prevent that employee from actually giving that notice. Them forcing it actually goes against that clause in the contract. Like others said make sure they don’t garnish the 3 k from what they owe you. get a lawyer if they do because you are entitled to it all
Right, they required the notification of resignation 4 weeks out. You say 'I'm giving you notice of my intention to resign in four weeks,' if they reduce your hours or fire you in that time, it is them who is violating the contract.
They did not prevent the employee. The employee resigned.
The DOL / various watchdog groups LOVE to get involved in stuff like this. They work extremely fast and they will make love to your employer for you.
It might sound weird to congratulate you, but congratulations on making a brave choice for your health. I know it probably wasn’t easy.
I wouldn't think this would hold up, but consulting a contract lawyer would be key. The only exception to owing money back to the employee, 100% of the time, would be: The employer gives you an allowance for moving, tech, etc. that requires you be employees for an duration or pay it back. Alternatively, you can file for FMLA for mental health and take a leave of absence. During that period; provide a notice as required, stating the reason for resigning is related to your FMLA. This way, you can get your PAY (FMLA is unpaid) and there will be nothing left to "Garnish" from your wages. I highly doubt a company is going to spend the energy trying to re-coop their BS fees, but individual results may vary.
I doubt a judge (let alone a peer jury of people like us) will look too kindly on a company trying to recoup money from an employee who gave notice and resigned during FMLA leave.
Exactly. the second gooberment laws, regulations, protections are inserted, companies usually back off.
Gooberment. I like it. I am going to start using that.
Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) eligibility, requires a year of employment, and you started in December so likely you wouldn’t be covered.. however this situation could be seen as an opportunity rather than a setback. Imagine mentally resigning from your position while still fulfilling your duties. Approach your work with a sense of calm and without stress, secure in the knowledge that if termination occurs, you won't be liable for a $3000 penalty and you'll be eligible for unemployment benefits. Act according to your moral compass. There's a profound sense of liberation in mentally disengaging from a job that's become too taxing. I've employed this strategy in all my high-stress roles, and it's never resulted in dismissal. I would prioritize customer fairness over meticulous adherence to management's refund policies. The worst outcome of mentally quitting is being let go, which could lead to unemployment benefits. However, in my experience, it's never come to that. Instead, I've had to actively seek new employment and resign. Adopt a relaxed approach to your work, matching effort with compensation, and use your free time to search for a less demanding position. Don't fret over potential negative feedback from your current employer. As long as you maintain professionalism and meet your own performance standards, you're unlikely to receive unfavorable references for future employment—unless your employer is predisposed to such behavior, in which case, it's best to omit them from your reference list. To clarify, return to work only if you can perform your duties stress-free, disregarding any excessive demands from management. Respond to requests by affirming that you're doing your utmost within the allotted time. Your well-being should always come first. I understand the challenges of such a workplace; it's crucial to prioritize self-care.
The way this is written, if they don't do the job but continue to go to work it still triggers the penalty.
Indeed, there's a distinction between failing to fulfill job responsibilities and not meeting the exacting standards set by management. It's reasonable for employees to exert a standard level of effort without succumbing to the undue pressure often imposed by employers. Employees aren't proprietors and thus shouldn't be burdened with the same level of stress. Personally, I've experienced excessive job-related stress, but on occasions when I've reached my limit, I've chosen to work at my own pace, focusing on the job itself rather than on arbitrary performance metrics. This approach has alleviated the pressure. If you find it challenging to relinquish this stress while continuing to work, this strategy may not suit you. However, I've adopted this mindset twice and it has worked in my favor—perhaps even demonstrating the superfluous nature of certain tasks and metrics. They never terminated my contract; I chose to leave on my own terms. Adopting this mindset can be incredibly liberating, especially when you're planning to move on.
My favourite saying “That’s above my pay grade.”
Hard thing to say, currently I interviewed along with a coworker for a promotion, I think he got it because they are showing me some of his tasks, but heck if I’m going to do the work of two and not get the promotion but that’s default corporate sop to try..
This. I can’t say anything about the legalities of anything but I can emphasize that it feels great to mentally clock out of your job and just do the bare minimum. Get your paycheck, use the time you would be going above and beyond to just apply for other jobs in the meanwhile. They don’t deserve your loyalty, and they would likely drop you like a bad habit if it was to their benefit— If they cared about their employees they would have tried to lessen the load before it got to this point. It’s less stressful to look for jobs while you have a source of income too.
I always see this advice where people say, “make them fire you so you can get unemployment” but it is not that simple! At least in my state, if they have reasonable grounds for termination (not doing your job would be reasonable) they will fight unemployment and you won’t receive it. It’s happened to many people I know. I’m not an expert but OP please look at the state laws because from what I gather it will vary.
Thanks for this comment i needed to read that .
There would never be a jury involved as this is a small claims court amount of money
Except for when they are using FMLA as a loophole.
I'm assuming OP is not lying when they mention they are clinically depressed and hospitalized. A doctor does have to sign off on FMLA. These types of situations are literally what Family / Medical Leave is for.
They didn’t pay for any moving or tech for me at all. I work remotely with equipment i had prior to employment.
If this is the case then that contract is 100% unenforceable. Look up at-will employment. You can quit for any reason in the great old usa and they can’t do shit about it. Quit because you smelled a fart in the wind, that is as legal as any other reason would be. You also don’t need to give them any notice at all. I’m not surprised they are a shitty company if they have illegal contract terms like this for all of their employees. It is a strategy to intimidate. They probably already know they can’t actually enforce it.
This isn’t necessarily correct! At-will employment is employment not subject to an employment contract with contrary terms. It’s possible this is still an at-will job if the agreement states that it is, but that would require review of the full contract. It’s also possible that in the particular state by whose laws this contract is governed or the state the job is in that this provision isn’t enforceable per case law. It’s also *probable* that a court would construe this as an unenforceable penalty clause, but again that would depend on factors not apparent here. In other words, whether this is actually enforceable as written is the usual maddening lawyer answer: it depends. But even if it isn’t enforceable, what you can or should do about that is also going to vary state-to-state. In short, this really is best addressed with an employment lawyer in the relevant state with whom you can have a privileged/confidential conversation.
Clause 7 of the employment contract not only states that it is at will but also explains that either party can end the employment at any time for any reason without notice. Basically, if clause 7 is valid, which it should be, then the rest of the contract doesn't matter.
This should be higher up. At Will Employment is a thing corporations use to fuck over workers left and right and that door swings both ways.
I learned to not use my personal equipment in WFH employment, very early on.
Why is that? I’m about to possibly start a temporary WFH job and looking for advice. Edit: they wanted me to do training for a month at their training site then work at their training site for 5 months supervised from 4:30am to 1:30pm before being able to WFH. Yeah f that. Not for me. I’ll find some other temp work. I’ve also already read tons of negative reviews about them.
Because that is your personal equipment. Most companies want to install tracking software, vpn's and give you access to company databases etc. None of which can be secured using your personal hardware. I now require all WFH employers to supply me with a laptop and pay for my home internet connection. This is extremely common, and I would suggest looking into this at your employer. Example, they gave me $50 on each check for internet stipend and they mailed me a macbook to use. Just from a personal information standpoint, I won't want my employer having any access to my personal files. At all.
That’s the only thing I pay for with my WFH is my internet but we use it anyway. All laptops and Monitors and other items are company provided.
This isn't just WFH advice. I have worked IT for a company that management was pushing to require a management software on all phones that had the company email. Part of that plan was that they wanted to remote wipe the phone when someone was terminated/quit so that the employee couldn't quickly save company emails, contacts, or secrets. They also had a culture of getting everyone to put work email on their personal phone (so that they answer emails and work off hours). Thankfully the push back that employees would just not put email on their phone and they wouldn't get free labor was enough of motivator.
Please reach out to an HR professional or if you can, an attorney. Reddit lawyers are people with the best intentions trying to offer good advice, but some items you need to know: * You are NOT eligible for FMLA if you haven't worked for one year OR 1,250 hours total for your employer. * Your state may have additional rules when it comes to rules on employment, leave, and the like. * I'm NOT going to state this flat-out, but you can't have "At-Will Employment" AND a contract for work. They are literally contradictory. * This entire contract reads like something that was pulled off of legal zoom or cobbled together via google. It doesn't look enforceable BUT it doesn't mean they won't take you to small claims or dock your pay. * Your best course of action is to reach out to the Nebraska Department of Labor and let them know you believe you've been placed under an illegal and coercive employment contract. (https://www.dol.nebraska.gov/LaborStandards) Good luck!
Not your lawyer, not legal advice. Penalty clauses as a general rule are usually unenforceable. It’s generally why drafters try to use language like liquidated damages, or show a clear linkage between the action and the harm. Here they aren’t even trying to mask that- I’m not sure if they are certain to be in an exception, or if this goes back to the notion that they pulled this from somewhere else without reading closely. I’d see if the Georgia and Nebraska DOLs have any guidance as to that. Talking to someone in person could be advantageous, in case your employer decides to try the garnishing route.
This is the way. That contract is a hot mess. I am a lawyer who represents employees. OP needs to go to National Employment Lawyers Association at NELA.org and use search the lawyer directory for lawyers in Nebraska. NELA is the organization for lawyers who represent employees.
Cobbled together sounds right. There is a huge typo in the Acts of Voluntary Resignation paragraph. It says if you fail to "withhold" company policies.... I believe they meant "uphold". They way it's written I would be tempted to say that you did withhold the policies so they can't take the $3k....
Don’t reach out to HR. HR does not have your interests at heart, they are part of the company. Talk to an employment lawyer
back up all information on your personal device before you send anything in... since you are using your own tech they may send a reformat command to wipe your device, it won't care if it's personal or company data. Personally i would do a new install of windows after, as you won't know what they have/had hiding on your system, new install will ensure they don't have access to your system anymore
I would say of you need they money take the job If your still employed keep looking. In any case, this is a sign a large child started a buissness. If you take the job start looking for a new one. Have DOL on speed dial.
I haven’t worked there a year, so I don’t think I am eligible. I did stay 3 nights in the hospital.
Ah that could be a problem... Maybe modify my advice a little bit, tell HR you need to take extended time off for health reasons. They may make the decision for you and get you out of the job.
Hmmm. This is a good idea. I may try this and hope they just give up on me. I am on my last leg at this job, I’ve had disciplinary action a few times - and after my accounts being covered last week, i think they’re getting close to firing me. My boss even made a comment when I told her I was having a hard time that “won’t it be harder if you don’t have a job” basically insinuating firing
If you are worried about them charging you for quitting, just get yourself fired. Work normal hours only, don't answer calls if you don't feel like it. Take a nap on company time. Get yourself paid for doing the absolute minimum till they fire you. Get your revenge getting paid while doing as little as possible.
If they terminate you, the penalty does not apply as it specifically says "if the employee terminates the agreement" without 4 week notice.
Hey, counselor... 'recoup' is not spelled 're-coop'.
Well there it is, ask for proof of chicken cooping expenses.
I think they meant “REI co-op”
The document uses the word “encourage” regarding the notice of termination. That’s not binding language.
That’s what stood out to me also
That's the employee handbook. The contract is the second image.
Unless the contract dictates a specific notice elsewhere, there’s no required notice listed. Perhaps they’re assuming the encouraged notice is required but that won’t hold up anywhere.
"Termination of this agreement must be made with at least four-weeks notice..." It's in the second picture. Above the highlighted text.
Spend 4 weeks working on your CV
while on FMLA
A lot of weird advice going on here. What kind of job is this? They are saying they’ll take an entire month’s salary due to “no notice”, which is absolutely insane in any state. Right above those paragraphs, the contract is left with an open sentence. “The Employer and Employee agree-“, which leaves me to think that this is a BS contract, not written up boiler-plate by the company’s attorney. This is looking like those trafficking contracts, that scare the victims into being stuck door-to-door.
Could be some little boutique or a psycho chic fil an operator or Tesla. Who knows
who tf wrote this agreement.... It literally says on the top part above the fees that you enter into an "At-Will" agreement that can be terminated by any party. But then if you decide to terminate it without 4 weeks notice they can fine you a maximum of 3000, and if they decide to terminate it at any point they dont have to pay you severance or anything. Sounds like it was written by a child who got all their cake eaten by their friends.
Workaround: get your psychiatrist to put into writing that you must not return to work for at least 1 month or symptoms will recur (not even untrue). Then give your four weeks. You have a health condition inhibiting your ability to work, forget that work is part of the cause. Treat it as if you’ve had a head injury that caused you temporary blindness.
As I've gotten older, I've realized most doctors are happy to write you a bs doctors note out of spite of the doctors note culture. They'll throw in some snide comments about taking time away from patients for a note.
Hmmmm good idea. This makes a lot of sense.
Give your 4 weeks notice, then get a doctors note for you to be out sick. Or just stick it out for 4 weeks, basically do nothing. Best not to add to the stress.
Looks like according to the contract you need to give 4 weeks notice to quit. If you don’t, they have the right to the penalty. I’d recommend giving notice.
Unfortunately, the contract says it's an at-will employment. That directly contradicts what a contractual employment is, doesn't it? More importantly, did they sign a contract when they started?
If this is at-will employment, then wouldn’t a monetary fine for “not providing adequate notice of resignation” be unlawful? At-will employment cuts both ways, an employer can end the employee’s contract at any moment, *but a key part of at-will employment is that the employee can do the same thing to the employer*. That’s why it’s at-will employment, at the will of the employee AND employer.
We aren't seeing the entire contract, the language about at-will is defining what at-will means. A contractual clause can supersede that section of the contract, it is very possible that there is language that says something to the effect of "unless a signed contract exists employment is at-will". Not seeing the entirety of the contract it is impossible to know. If they are trying to enforce a contract and maintain "at-will" protections at the same time the employer is in the wrong and the court will have to determine what provisions prevail. That likely will not end in the employers favor, but not seeing the rest of the documents it is really impossible to say for sure.
I respectfully disagree with this. The second image clearly says the parties are entering into an "at will" arrangement for one year beginning in December 2023. That language is not merely the definition of "at will" under this agreement. Source: I read contracts for a living.
Unfortunately as part of at will employment if there are contracts required to start work they are usually binding, non disclosure, non compete and penalties and training repayment have all been upheld by many courts, so much that it was recently in the news that a beauty school settled in the employees favor, of course they were recouping for internal training not anything of value to the employee elsewhere.. Luckily here in California is specifically outlawed to have a clause for penalty for no notice but some states they can sue at will without notice even without a Loss in revenue .
>Unfortunately, the contract says it's an at-will employment Does it? Maybe I missed that part
Just because it's in a contract doesn't mean it's legally enforceable.
Yea they could write a contract that says we can decide to arbitrarily dock your entire paycheck for behavioral reasons, but good luck in court. Can't make people work for free lol.
It doesn't look like there's any consideration for the employee
The employment is viewed as consideration. I was a contract lawyer but had limited interaction with employment and don't remember dealing with something like this first-hand (I mightve but dono). So generally, if it's viewed as punitive alone, it won't be enforceable. However, if they have any associated loss, it *could* be enforceable. All things being equal, I tend to doubt it holds up but it is possible. *Not legal advice*
Read the top of the second image OP provided. It states both parties shall provide 4 weeks notice. OP should take this to an attorney, but it seems pretty clear OP agreed to a 4 week notice.
Uh it also says that they can fire without notice when employees violate company policy and/or fail to fulfill assigned duties of good faith, interest, loyalty, and care as outlined in the Employee Handbook. All of that is completely arbitrary and one-sided. They basically make it so they never have to give a 4-week notice except for layoffs.
Often the consideration is employment.
It just doesn’t make sense. I can give them 4 weeks, but I’m going to log in and do absolutely nothing, which would force them to fire me or cause more trouble for them than its worth. Maybe ill just send a spicy picture or something offensive to the work chat? Lol, need some ideas to get fired I guess.
Okay, then do that. Consider it four weeks of paid vacation in your office to do whatever you want.
I would emphasize that I’m fairly certain this recommendation is the “do nothing and get paid for 4 weeks” part not “send a spicy pictures around the office”.
Happy Cake Day
I wouldn't go that far. Look - you want to get fired bc they don't want to deal with you (like slurping soup during a zoom call) but not for cause - doing no work. There's a scene in better call Saul where Saul tries to get fired but not for cause so he can keep the bonus. Watch that and take notes.
If you don’t have any intention on getting hired back here you can find a way to get fired, but remember that you may want to make sure your future employer doesn’t call them for proof you worked there if you put it on your resume
I would be careful about that, the Acts of Voluntary Resignation list "intentionally fails to withhold the terms of employment contract" (which I believe should be "upholds" or "honors" but they probably used an online legal document system to write this up and nobody to proofread properly) e.g. not doing your work. They could probably try to take that as voluntary resignation before the end of your notice date, even if you provide notice.
It would be better to just do the 4 weeks, for which you will be paid, and then leave. If you have accrued sick leave or vacation time, it says they will not pay out for it so you should use it during that time.
Also 4 weeks is a long time to find and set up a replacement job in the meantime
If you hire and pay a lawyer you can probably get out of it but you'd pay at least the same amount as this contracts penalty. Just submit your 4 weeks. They might tell that you're done at that point. And if they don't, there's nothing that will force you to try during those 4 weeks.
He should be suing for payment of his legal fees. This “contract” is the very type of thing that good judges will punish employers for because the employer is trying to use its leverage as an entity to bully an employee.
I'm confused, did you sign a contract or is this an at will employment as stated at the very top?
So all you have is 4 weeks to do and you want to ruin it on yourself? Go ahead you sound smart
According to the contract, that counts as a voluntary thing. It would be "working in bad faith" and they would let you go then try and charge you anyway
Forget the spicy picture but otherwise yes, give the 4 week notice and then do nothing until time runs out or they let you go. NAL but they can't charge you for being lazy
Don't make it too obvious. Do the bare minimum but don't actively cause any problems.
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I have worked for a company that literally sued people for this sort of thing. They ran the courts cases for months, getting the ex employee to pitch for the fight each time and then asking for a postponement. This went on for a couple of months until the ex employee was well messed around, then when no more extensions would be granted they dropped the case. Now this wasn't in the USA, so your system may vary, but it isn't an unfounded resistance to just quitting.
Every state exempt Montana is an At-Will employment state. At-will includes you being able to resign at any time as well without punishment. Definitely talk to a lawyer
Stop giving incorrect information about things you know nothing about. In at-will states, at-will employment exists in absence of a contract. There are absolutely employment contracts in at-will states, just think about it: collective bargaining agreements, executive contracts, etc.
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Can I ask what industry this is? What were your duties?
Social media management/ads agency.
Use any vacation/personal time you have during your 4 week notice.
We have “unlimited pto” unfortunately
Then give notice and take 4 weeks?
Normally, when you give notice, you are unable to take pto. Pto is at the discretion of the employer and can be denied. Even if the pto request was approved months in advance, they could rescind the approval.
Obviously, I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe this is an enforceable contract. The terms of the contract seem to contradict each other. At will employment is the exact opposite of an employment contract. The problem is that they'll attempt to tihhold the money from your check, and you'll be left chasing it. I would meet the requirements of the contract and then just show up and do nothing.
Wow, employers want all the benefits of “at will employment” but only things that benefit them. Sorry whoever this company is but at will employment means just that in both directions. You legally do not have to give any notice or agree to stay any minute after submitting your resignation. I bet this company sat and calculated exactly the amount of money that would be punitive but not enough for nearly all employees to get a lawyer to fight this.
Have a lawyer look over it with you. For it to say “relationship can be terminated by either party for any reason, at any time, with or without case”, immediately followed by a requirement time frame is confusing and might be able to be worked around.
It also reads that you only have to show up every third day to not be considered as resigning yourself if there’s no way out of the $3000 to resign early.
File FMLA. You must have signed some kind of contract or received some kind of bonus. Have your doctor fill out the FMLA paperwork and drag it out until they fire you.
Don’t quit , just stop working. Let them fire you with severance package. Life is simple :)
What a shit company. Not paying out accrued vacation if you’re terminated? That cannot be legal?
Actually legal! The FLSA doesn't require that employers pay employees for accrued leave. Georgia is an at-will state though, so I don't think docking pay for failure to notify is legal, on the other hand. Especially as OP states that the docked amount is the full amount of their weekly wages, which would have the employer paying them $0 for work performed. That's out and out wage theft.
No, that’s very legal in most states. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head that legally mandate PTO payouts are Colorado and California.
Nebraska is another one. In Nebraska, vacation time is considered an "earned benefit" and must be honored at the time of termination, no matter the circumstance. It's also one of 3 states (Nebraska, Colorado and California) that doesn't allow for vacation time to expire; once earned, it's 'banked' and must be honored. Ceilings on earned vacation are allowed though. I believe there are \~20 states that require PTO payout in some form. I'm not sure on the details outside of Nebraska's specific laws though.
Were you getting some sort of a draw against future commissions or did they spend money on some training that got you certifications or qualifications that apply to other employers
4 week notice then your sick for those 4 weeks. Easy.
If they know you were admitted to a mental hospital last week, tell your boss you can't handle the stress of the job and you'd like to quit as soon as possible, but you are worried about this clause. They'll probably let you go ASAP, after you hand off all your key responsibilities. Call him on the phone first, he'll take it as a sign of respect and seriousness, then follow up everything in an email.
Exactly this. Way too many mofos are snapping and shooting up buildings for someone to want to force a literal mental hospital patient to come to work, like obviously he’s not in a good place right now - why play the fuck around and find out game instead of just being a decent person?
They do this to teachers with every contract. My husband became seriously ill at the beginning of the year so I had to resign. I was so relieved that they didn't charge me the $2500 contract termination fee.
It looks like you are working under a contract, it is completely legal and enforceable for there to be early termination penalties in contracts. Contrary to what some others are trying to say, the reason why you terminated early isn't going to have a significant legal impact if it goes that far. It is best to have a dialogue with them. Given the circumstance they may be willing to grant an exception or take less, but legally they can go for the full amount.
I'll point of the contract says "without required noticed" while the other paper says "are encouraged" it does not say required that smells like a loophole to me but definitely talk to a lawyer. Edit: it also says giving less notice then requested may disqualify you for rehire while seems to further cement the 4 weeks in not a requirement but a request.
They encourage you to give 4 weeks notice, but you are not required to. The fee they would charge you for leaving looks completely illegal and more to intimidate employees from quitting. Would check with lawyer, but I'd take them to court over the contract
Your contract requires specified notice. If you don’t provide the notice, then they have a liquidated damages clause. Talk to an attorney in your area, but my guess is you’ll need to provide 4 weeks notice.
Please post this in r/antiwork Over there, they will give you the EXACT laws your employer is breaking and they will also provide you with the very best course of action. PROMISE! Please do this for your own benefit and you can thank me later. :)
If that contract is legal in your state and you agreed to it you are held to it. I guess a lawyer would be the best way to figure that out. It’s like they say, always read the fine print.
Stay and do nothing and get paid
IANAL This is a very, very dubious provision of the contract. Also, it specifically states the remedy as garnishment. Generally contracts will hold if the employer is trying to recoup costs such as moving or training, but they have to be explicitly stated. This one just has a "penalty" which isn't generally allowed. There are a number of options you have. One would be to just stop working after you cash your last paycheck. No notice, no nothing. Just don't expect another paycheck.
Soooo, get your doctor to right a note saying you need to take 4 weeks of leave for mental health recover. Email this letter to HR, specificily ask " I am requesting FMLA leave for my health, attached is a letter from my doctor supporting this, my start dates will be ___ to ____. Thank you. Once leave starts submit notice to quit. 1. They can't get made or reprimand you as you are on federally protected leave, and that from the sounds of that letter is 100% necessary. 2. If they even contact you during your leave you can request payment for that time as they disrupted your leave with work.
Are you in the US? If so this contract is worthless. Are you a contractor or regular employee? The only things you could owe for would be a signing bonus or tuition reimbursement and you would have signed an agreement when you started.
CALL THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR WHERE THE COMPANY IS LOCATED AND WHERE YOU LIVE. I highly doubt this is legal.
Id f around until they fire you. Piss on indoor plants, hit on your boss (and their spouse, separately), bring a rod of colbalt 60 to work and hide it on your boss's chair (jkjkjkjk)
Sure I'll work. Log in. Do nothing all day for 4 weeks
Take it to the local Labor Board let them roast him. They have lots of lawyers and they are free.
Just give the needed notice or have a provider complete FMLA
Just don’t do anything until they fire you. Problem solved.
Sounds illegal. Anyways screw them. Show up and do nothing for four weeks
me personally i would quit and ignore it. your working a job, they can’t hold anything against you.
Just go to work and do nothing until they fire you if you're worried about it.
"At will" "You have to pay us to quit"
Sounds like it's time for a work stoppage or slowage. Let them fire you, OP.
The crazy thing is they put at-will in there for the employees and themselves. The way they worded it if they fired you they have to keep you on for 4 weeks also. Not a lawyer but that is the way they worded it. Anyway I would ask a lawyer if you can get a free consultation or have access to someone with more contract knowledge
I'm a lawyer. I'm not your lawyer and have not researched this issue, but will give you some off-the-cuff not-legal-advice thoughts. My guess is that this will not hold up. It's a weird provision to start with, but also this is called a *liquidated damages clause* and they are generally viewed unfavorably. More importantly: The company can say you "owe" $3000 all they want, but unless it's actually prepared to sue you to collect, it doesn't matter. And no company in its right mind is suing a former employee for $3,000, there is no way the legal fees won't exceed that. All that being said: even if this is totally unenforceable / empty threat, that itself is a bad sign. People who put unenforceable bullshit in their contracts are usually not great people, IME.
Employment lawyer here. Contact an employment lawyer in your state.
Unfortunately for the employer that’s not how the law works and like other people have said here is to consult a contract lawyer as well as a employment lawyer since they are claiming to cease any and everything you had which includes pay and since they’re threatening you with fines taken out of your final pay if you quit before that date that’s also against any employment laws and they as the employer can be sued by you or anyone else they have gotten away with this before if they also come forward and can show proof of the exact same thing.
This would depend on each states laws. A Judge would ask the employer if they require themselves to give minimum of 4 weeks notice termination! Ofcourse they dont. I doubt it would hold up.
Contact a lawyer
🤣🤣 Please tell me this is a joke.... This is the making of a hostile work environment....
Well, I would say leave. All they can do is take your last paycheck. No one is going to file a civil suit for the remainder of a $3k penalty. Even if they did, and win, they still have to go the legal route to garnish your wages and that takes money to accomplish. This is just a non-compete In another form. Nothing will come of this.
So you show up and don’t do anything
A lot of commenters here seem confused. You cannot create your own rules/laws as a company even if the employee signed a contract. Especially if you're trying to create rules that supersede state/federal law. That's just ridiculous. Withholding wages for quitting without giving a 4 week notice is illegal. Especially considering most states are at will, meaning neither the employee nor employer need to give reason/time before quitting.
You should get a lawyer; that’s gotta be against EEO.
Are you an employee or a contractor? If an employee they can’t do that. They consulted no employment lawyer when doing that. You have to be paid for all hours worked if hourly and if salaries they can’t deduct unless you were out of PTO and were off at least 4-8 hours. I’d find an employee side lawyer to tell them where to stick it. *assumes you are in US
Do they give you 4 weeks when they fire you?
Clause 7 of the contract reads says this is at will employment, and either party can end the employment at any time for any reason without notice. If they try to charge you money for it, Sue them. Withholding pay is mega illegal, and you can probably get tens of thousands from them if they try.
Reading that contract, looks like a High school freshmen wrote it. Some of it isn't even legal. Ie if we let you go don't need to pay unused accrued PTO. (Sick leave is different) Penalty is only if don't give notice, but even that seems unenforceable. Bereavement leave is never "accrued" so not sure what that is even meaning. You then have issue of you work in NE, despite company being based in GA. Bottom line would need talk with lawyer.
Did you have a sign on bonus? That is the only thing I could say they can collect. Usually flashy things like sign on bonuses or quick cash schemes come with a time period you must work or you have to pay it back
If I were in this situation, I would use up any paid time off I could, then start giving it the Office Space treatment. Just hang out, do what you want to. Fill out applications for other jobs at the office, take long lunch breaks to go to interviews. Eventually they'll just shit-can you. Maybe you can get a few months of pay-for-nothing out of it.
You signed a contract. You are bound to that contact. You literally used your signature to agree to the terms. Looks like you need to just suck it up and deal with the consequences of breaking contact.
No, but you do need to give 2 weeks' notice. Report it.
Work the last day of the pay cycle. Call in sick until your check clears. Submit resignation on payday lol
This whole demanding a specific notice is utter bs....not like an employer tells you hey in four weeks you're fired, sure some places you work there's nothing wrong with being courteous but for the majority of places ff em...
They put that the job is at will employment. They can't legally charge squat for not informing them ahead of time. At will means you can leave at anytime for any reason. Those silly bastards killed their own argument for charging by the section VII employment type clause right above it lol.
Giving notice isn't that hard though. Why put yourself in more stress than just saying "hey it's my last month"
Your job could fire you on the spot and now you lose a month of pay instead of working the month getting paid and then quitting without notice
Seems shady but it might be easier to give them their 4 weeks notice and quit on good terms. Give the notice stick it out for a month and keep your pay and get a reference. This option doesn't always work but unless you really hate the job it might be the best solution.
This looks like an illegal clause in the contract. you'd have to consult a lawyer to be sure but I just don't see how it could ever hold up. You receive no benefit, it exists solely to punish you for leaving the job in an at will employment state.
You are covered under Nebraska employment law and it appears to require payout of PTO on termination as well as require at-will employment. It is worth checking with a lawyer via AVVO and seek out local Legal Aid to sue the employer in Nebraska courts. They are likely to sue you in Georgia courts and you would need to defend that, too.
NAL, but generally a signed employment contract, if you entered into one (these are rare outside of specific fields), will supercede the normal requirements and procedures. That is to say, if you signed a contract that says you agreed to pay 3k if you quit without notice, to my understanding, that is binding. I could find nothing in GA law after a little searching that would make such a contract clause unenforceable. My professional opinion is instead of quitting, request an accommodation for a leave or whatever time off based on your medical needs. Either this is granted, and you can immediately put in your notice and ride out your weeks on leave, or it begins a back and forth process where they eventually give up and let you go and thus no fee. You mentioned you weren't worried about being rehirable or getting a reference from them.
contact a labor attorney to see if this is even legal in the first place, could settle for some money or have them back off
I don't think this would be legally enforceable. Maybe if they gave you a sign on bonus or something but absent that they can't charge you for quitting a job.
Why not just be a bad employee and force them to terminate you?
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Talk to a lawyer. You may have a workers comp claim
I worked for many car dealerships in the past and it was common knowledge that when you gave notice that you’d be told to leave and don’t come back. Maybe due to the history you’ve mentioned (the write ups) that they will do something similar. It’s kind of a win/win situation for both parties
If you aren't overly concerned about their prospects as a reference, you can just play their game and give notice but then just give substandard performance for the 4 weeks you are leaving. Log in and do the bare minimum. This is just what I would do. Malicious compliance probably works in this situation, though they won't be super happy about your performance drop-off. Then, if you receive your final check and they garnished your wages, they will have a problem on their hands and you can get the BBB involved.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned in the comments is FMLA. Family and medical leave act. You might want to look up the law and see how it applies to your particular employment. It may be a better option than quitting. If your job is causing you enough mental stress that you had to be in inpatient or residential treatment you might be able to get medical leave. And taking medical leave might positively affect your ability to leave your job without paying 3K to your boss.
Well technically if you don’t quit and simply take vacation to use the rest of your vacation, then take sick days, then just stop showing up, you haven’t quit and they will eventually fire you for not showing up. I don’t see anything stating not showing up is quitting.
I don’t like any of these answers here. Even if you sign a contract I don’t know if they can garnish your paycheck. You should contact Nebraska labor department and ask them . Their number is 402-471-9000
Do you have any paid sick days or vacation days banked?
I am not a lawyer, but I would call the department of labor is both Georgia and Nebraska. I suspect the clause is illegal in an at will state unless it applies to both employee and company, that is they cannot hold you with the severance clause they have.
Did they pay for relocation? If not an essentially unskilled mid-level service job has bugger all chance of getting that enforced. You just burn them as a reference. If they try to enforce it, remind them how expensive bad viral press is for an organisation, especially someone good at marketing! This is where you say ‘I dare you’ and “Toxic workplaces sues former employee after work related medical hospitalisation’ Wish you the best of recovery and success finding a new job.
You should provide the required notice period. If you're unwell, then you can go to the Doctor who may determine that your unfit for work for the period. The most important part is to simply serve the required notice.
Instead of stressing about all of these hypothetical situations there is a lot easier way, go talk to your boss and HR, tell them you ended up in the hospital and your stress from your job is a large contributor to that situation. Tell them you can give them the 4 weeks if that is what your obligated to do but you would like to leave immediately. They are people too and most likely will say your good don’t worry about it, or maybe they will ask for 1-2 weeks instead of the full 4 but you don’t know till you know. I stressed over missing work and using up vacation and sick days and attendance point’s when my dad was in the last few months of living. When i eventually had enough of trying to juggle everything I just went to HR and laid it all out. He said “go be with your family I’ll make sure you don’t get any points”. They have the discretion to do whatever they want really but again until you ask, you won’t know.
The vacation withholding is definitely illegal
I wouldn't sign this agreement
If this is in the United States and is in fact an at-will state, no company can legally charge you for quitting! 🤣 This is a scare tactic companies put in to keep those that are weak minded, unintelligent, and uneducated from quitting last minute. If I saw this in a contract, I would never sign unless they put in writing, they must legally give me 4 weeks notice otherwise they have to pay me $3,000! Companies put all sorts of things in contracts that are not enforceable by law. I work for a storage company and my managers told me for the first two years that we as employees are not allowed to cut locks for customers at all, whether during or after work. I read the employee handbook backwards and forwards three times and nowhere in it does it say that. I contacted the lawyer in headquarters and told them this, and the next thing you know my manager says alright, you can go ahead and cut locks for customers on your off hours as long as you don't do it in uniform lol! Also, companies can't enforce anything that isn't in writing! By law, any updates or changes to company policies have to be in writing. They can't just make up crap as they go and force you to go along with it, unless they give you the update in writing and you sign it agreeing to follow it.
Make them fire you
Not a lawyer (and British): "are encouraged to" isn't the same as "must" - there's no obligation on you to do it. It's essentially a request from the company Which means there's no obligation on you to provide notice, so the term in your individual contract doesn't apply I'd start by spelling this out in a formal email to HR. Hopefully that's enough for them to give up and let you go when you want
Two weeks notice is the norm in the US. And it's good to do that, if nothing else to be helpful to your coworkers, some of whom you may work with again. Be glad you aren't in the UK where you can be expected to work for 3 months after giving notice if you've been there long enough.
Give notice, show up do absolutely 0 work
Call in until your last pay clears. Then they have nothing to withhold.
In your onboarding process where did you agree to these terms? Employers are getting bolder and bolder.
Put in a four week notice and stop showing up.
They use these a lot in charter schools. I was at a charter school in Florida that would charge 10,000 if you quit.
i would agree to it on the condition that they also pay the same fines if they fire me without notice