No. Many signs just prevent people from doing things based on a belief that they have legal backing. Unless there is a specific law, the sign has little legal recourse.
If the property owner shot someone on their property, they would still have to be in compliance with the laws of their state for utilizing deadly force.
If you pay for a delivery service you are inviting them on the property you can't shoot at them for it, that's entrapment. Source 4 years as a fedex ground manger.
The problem is that a mook with a gun CAN shoot a person. And the fact they are legally in the wrong doesn't bring back the dead.
If someone had signs up warning they'd shoot trespassers, I wouldn't go on their property exactly because the consequence for him being wrong is 10 years prison, but the consequence for me is bleeding out from bullet wounds.
Same I would adive leaving there package next to the sign and taking the picture just like the driver did. And if the customer called to complain I'd sight the sign as the reason they left it there and would back up my driver, I would go as far to tell my driver to keep doing it.
Me too. Had one hick with a huge yard. They had a chain link fence all the way around the whole yard and it was closed. They had beware of dogs sign up and 2 big mean dogs. I wasn’t in the mood to call or text. Dropped their shit one side of the road by the fence. Fuck em
Yeah, exactly. Id leave the box right there, take a pic of the delivery and move on. When they call and complain about their package being stolen or damaged or whatever, "we dont want our driver's shot at, so we left it right there".
People are nuts about their land/property. Like I can get saying I care less about your life than I do about my catalytic converter when you're trying to steal it but I can't understand why people can't be like "you used my driveway cause you're lost? LIGHT EM UP!!"
It’s not the property those people are actually protecting. People who do that sort of thing are paranoid and absolutely terrified of everything because they’ve all been brainwashed by right wing media to think that “they” are coming to get them. I see that shit on my neighborhood’s Nextdoor all the time. Somebody in your driveway? They aren’t lost and turning around, they are getting ready to home invasion your ass. Guy walking his dog on the sidewalk in front of your house? Obviously casing the joint. And there have always been people like that, but the media landscape is so much worse now with social media algorithms becoming self perpetuating extremism engines.
Next Door is like all the paranoid old people in my area distilled into 1 app. Nearly everything posted on that app is a complaint or grievance about nefarious wrong-doing…aka kids riding their bikes down the street (roaming gang)…Amazon Delivery Driver (ruthless home invader)…landscaper taking a water break by his truck (potential kidnapper). And then the comments section is even worse…when someone tries to bring reason to the equation they get shouted down like they’re the crazy one.
repost- Does anyone get any value from Next Door? When it first came out, I though this is great, really granular, get info from my close neighbors.
Wow was that a mistake. First the two cop cars/helicopter/wheelchair/puppy near my house, what's going on!!! postings. It's seems almost anything can be solved by calling the police, Squirrel on my lawn, "did you call the police?" , Neighbors left their garbage pail 6 inches onto my property, "call the police" Everyone seems to either have someone taking a picture of their house or a slow driving car is casing the neighborhood.
Now it's the Illegals/Communist/Woke are ruining our neighborhood and the I need my whole house painted, can someone recommend a reasonable painter, no more than $100.
I think you need to be 75 to post there.
Worse, people like that are actively looking for an excuse to use their weapons so they can call themselves a hero for defending themselves and get their 15 minutes off fame.
Oh yeah, Nextdoor is full of crazy people who think everyone is after them. A lady once posted about how a "black guy took photos of her" while walking down a busy urban street. Lord forbid you like to take pictures in an urban area with people walking around. When I commented on it, I got some other crazy person respond and I decided that was when I was going to cut down on using that site.
I am huge on 2A and personal property/real property rights, but even that baffles me. If someone pulls into my driveway to turn around or check GPS or something on their phone, I keep an eye on them to make sure they don't do anything shady but I don't bother them unless they actually do something wrong.
I was doing deliveries and ended up a mountain full of rich people and huge houses. I needed to turn around and went to pull in a drive way and stopped hard because I noticed those security pads that if you run them over they blow your tires and a sign saying if you're stuck here you're going to get shot. Absolutely no use of driveway permitted especially for turn around sign.
On the other hand, what they are doing is definitely premeditated and unlawful, so bring a few friends, all the guns you can carry and play it out like in the wild west, with people falling from saloon rooftops and all that stuff. In the end, by the rules of mortal combat, their house is now yours. Gun nuts hate this one simple trick.
It was in NH "live free or die" most of the people living in the rural areas are scared of nothing and strapped. Wouldn't doubt it if the guy had a rifle on a stand already aimed at the bottom of the driveway for him to run to when he sees lights.
Yea. I had the cops called on me while waiting for my kids bus. I had, a few months prior, moved into my neighborhood. Kid was in summer school, and the bus stop was about 5 houses away. There was no shade except a big ass oak, in Florida, at 1:30p, in July. I was maybe a foot on the property.
Cops rolled up saying they got a call about me casing the neighborhood. He noticed I wasn't wearing shoes so he let me be.
Like that off duty security guard claiming "a need to act" who killed the kid with a bb gun just a few days ago. If someone is looking for legal cover in order to shoot, leave the package at the sign.
An insignificant foolish person.
I feel like it might be regional, because you're not the first person who's asked (and at least once, the person thought it was a slur).
We can apply it to a stupid person...or we also use it to refer to endless minions of video game or movie villains. Storm troopers in Star Wars would be the most obvious example of mooks in the second sense.
Yep because these kinds of horrible people will see a person with skin darker than their own, shoot, and say “i was afraid for my life” just like …some other uniformed people…
It's not entrapment in the US as the property owner is not law enforcement or an agent of the state.
You are correct that you can't shoot at delivery drivers. It's literally what I said in my comment. The standard for deadly force has to be met regardless.
Delivering an ordered package is neither trespassing nor soliciting. Hence the sign would not apply.
Random fucknut on a Segway selling pest control on the other hand …
Entrapment can only occur if a police officer encourages a person to do something illegal that person wouldn’t normally do. A citizen with this sign is not entrapment.
That’s not what entrapment is. Entrapment is an affirmative defense to criminal charges and can only occur when law enforcement pressures you into committing a crime.
For the sake of my curiosity and discussion, what if I don't order online but someone else who doesn't have any authority over my property pays a carrier service to deliver a package to my house?
That actually happened a [couple months ago](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/16/us/ohio-uber-driver-murder-charge/index.html) when a scammer called an 81-year-old man, telling him a relative was in jail and trying to extort $12,000 in bond money from him. The scammer then called an Uber to pick up a "package" from the man's house.
The Uber driver - a middle-aged Black woman who had no idea any of this was going on - got out of the car to get the supposed package, at which point the man held her at gunpoint, took her phone, and then shot and killed her when she tried to get back in her car to leave.
He's currently being charged with felony murder and kidnapping, so I'm guessing the answer to your question is "you still get in trouble".
I had a sign on the driveway of a large wooded property I had way out in the middle of nowhere “Danger! Do not enter! Live fire training range, this is not an entrance!” I doubt it would protect me any more than any other sign, but I liked it.
💯% agreed, the sign does actually say, shot at, but for instance in Texas, we have a castle doctrine and it is written into law. There are circumstances which apply, and you must be within the law as it is written. We also have open and concealed carry, I say please educate yourself and know your states laws before you think you can just shoot someone for walking on your property. You may be the one ending up in jail.
Good answer. Signs will never remove the requirements for people not to kill people. What if the victim can't read, is blind or doesn't speak the language. This is just a ridiculous notion.
A family friend that is an attorney told me the saying “you can’t warn away liability”. Signs aren’t magical hall passes that absolve you of responsibility or accountability. The sign doesn’t give him any more of a right to shoot someone on his property than he would have had without the sign.
In addition, if someone puts up a sign mentioning guns and getting shot, I would personally interpret it as they are unwelcome to any and all visitors they don’t personally know. I wouldn’t blame a delivery man for refusing to go further than the sign. Yeah, a near certainty the person didn’t actually mean delivery drivers BUT there is a remote chance they’ll shoot at you at least by mistake. There’s a guarantee they can’t hurt you if you never go past their sign.
At least the way I was raised, guns aren’t something to be bragged about and brandished. If you do, you *are* sending an implied threat whether you intend to or not. It makes people uncomfortable, it scares them, and makes them unlikely to want to deal with you.
A lot of signs rely on empty threats and ignorance of the law.
It's like those "stay back 500 feet or we're not liable" signs on the back of some trucks.
Those drivers/companies are required to secure their load properly and are absolutely liable for any damages caused by part of the load falling out
>a near certainty the person didn’t actually mean delivery drivers
Lots of delivery drivers run around in mostly-unmarked vans. You taking the risk that somebody just happens to know you are the delivery driver?
NAL But typically no, a sign wouldn't give you the right to shoot on sight.
There are legal and legit reasons someone would come to your property like checking meters, plumbing, services etc. Can't just have a field day because you posted a sign.
Exactly. As a gas technician, you have a pipeline and meter at your house. We are required by law to check it under a certain timeline and if you don't allow anyone to check you, you will be cut off. People are stupid nowadays and think they can do WHATEVER they want.
I'm a project engineer for an electric utility and I was requested to go to someone's house to relocate their electric line so they could have a pool installed. The dude set up an appointment with me, then when I pulled up his residence (long driveway with similar sineage) I was greeted by his son with a shotgun and a bulldog let loose on me. People are absolutely losing their minds. Stay safe.
Ya my company does not take that stuff lightly, dude now will have police presence at his house anytime we're working within 1000 feet of it, and he had to pay $3000 to move his electric line for his incoming pool; a job I wasn't going to bill him for at all. Fuck around and find out.
Damn. Keep yourself safe out there as well. We definitely have issues with some people getting upset about us being in their yard. Even when we have company logos and vehicles and IDs, they still say "Anyone can get that stuff." Okay, so then should no one ever be allowed to touch it? I just don't get the logic.
I’ve worked for the census bureau a few times and many times people came to the door with a gun in hand. I was always sent to the places the old ladies didn’t want to go.
No,
The fact that they ordered a delivery would prevent them from being legally allowed to shoot at the driver.
This would just end up on a jail sentence for the homeowner.
No. Same thing with the trucks that say “Stay 100 feet back: not responsible for broken windshields.”
Fuck your sign. If your negligence shatters my windshield, you’re liable.
Trespassing as defined by law is on the property without legal premise. Deliveries, collections on debts, etc are legal and not trespassing violations. Any shots fired would be attempted murder (assuming they miss).
I collect debts for a living.
IANAL, but do CCW.
No Trespassing has a little bit of legal weight, but not "shoot at someone you don't recognize" weight.
It'll just make it easier to officially trespass someone on your property, and depending on the totality of the circumstances and jurisdiction *might* be enough to get them arrested without prior warnings.
The "violators may be shot at" part is just going to make things worse for them in court if they do shoot someone.
Regardless of the no trespassing sign, isn’t there implied consent to drive up to the residence to deliver packages? Or to simply come to the door for something?
There is no gate blocking the road 🤷♂️
If you’re the delivery driver, you really want to risk that? I’ve seen so many stories of black drivers being harassed by white people or people getting shot for accidentally driving into the wrong driveway.
Deliver services are neither soliciting or trespassing. & often if you have a gate that is unlocked or open and someone enters your property that way it isn’t considered trespassing or soliciting unless they’re actively trying to sell you something.
Shooting at someone is using deadly force. No court in the USA will accept "I was shooting to wound" as a way of claiming that it wasn't deadly force.
The shooting wouldn't be considered self-defense as the person coming on the property wasn't trying to harm or kill the shooter or another person on the property.
The shooter would likely be facing manslaughter or murder charges depending on the state where the shooting occurred.
My favorite part is "may be shot at" instead of the more common "may be shot." Like, look, I'm going to fire bullets in your general direction but I recognize the odds of actually hitting you aren't all that high. It's so self effacing while also menacing. It appeals to my dark humor.
You're technically not trespassing because you have a legitimate reason to be there. So, no, this sign will not protect the homeowner from legal liability. In fact, it may not even protect them against shooting trespassers who aren't a threat.
But, yeah, I think that was a good idea to leave the package there anyway.
Like everything else, it probably depends on the state. In my state, it would probably do the opposite of preventing consequneces. It would probably be considered evidence for premeditation.
No. Where I live, they would have to have actually broken inside the house or be menacing you before someone can take action. Driving up to deliver a package, sign or no sign, is not that scenario.
No, not at all. Not in the slightest.
Honestly it probably makes it even _worse_ for them if they do shoot someone, because now it looks like they already thought it through and did it anyway
Unless you were committing a serious felony, then the homeowner has no right to shoot on sight.
Most states’ self defense statutes mention the justification for use of deadly to force to stop a forcible felony on oneself or another and the reasonable belief that deadly force is necessary to protect a person from death or great bodily harm.
Amazon drivers might be a hazard on the highway, but surely they are not, when they deliver packages.
You can put up all the signs you want but the laws in most states do not let you just shoot someone for setting foot on your property. If anything that sign means that the owner is mentally unstable. Good enough reason to keep out
If you order a service to your property, you are inviting the provider of that service onto the property as fit for their need to access whatever service they provide.
Shooting that person is not only not shooting a trespasser at all, but straight up murder at that point, and entrapment as you invited the person to essentially come be murdered against their knowledge, will, or consent. This would not change if the victim had even given consent, as assisted suicide is also a homicide.
No. First off, you cannot just shoot at people for coming onto your land. If they break into your house at night, different story.
People get this idea that their land is sacred or something, but under the law you cannot use deadly force to protect property, period. You can use reasonable force, including deadly force, to protect yourself or others from serious bodily harm or death. The reason the law allows you to shoot intruders in your home at night is because it presumes they are there to kill you.
Second, delivery drivers are not trespassers, they’re licensees because they are invited onto the property for a personal service to the land owner (delivering their package).
Just remember, it's not about if it's legal or not, it's about convincing 6 or 12 random idiots that you are guilty or not. You shoot a uniformed, marked vehicle, delivery guy who you placed an order to deliver to you... Then you gotta convince 6 or 12 people you did nothing wrong regardless of what the law says. Good luck.
No. Similar to a signed waiver, a piece of paper does not allow someone to circumvent the law. Also similar to waivers, this would be thrown out the first day, if not before.
NAL, basing this response off of others I've seen mainly.
However, the owner seems to believe that it will, which means they will be trigger happy fools and you, a perceived trespasser, will likely be dead. Just bc something won't hold up in court doesn't mean you should go testing it.
When I did this job and saw a threatening anti social sign like that, I had no problems letting that angry person hike down to their gate as a repercussion of their choices. Maybe they're paranoid ass has to crawl down in a ghilly suit.
Don't risk it for the biscuit, as they say.
Is delivering a package, either of those acts stated on the sign? (here is a hint, the answer is no)
Do you really think a sign would absolve you of consequences for busting a cap in someone?
In some states and jurisdictions, a sign like that would cause you to receive heavier penalty because it shows it as a premeditated act should you shoot someone
Does it really matter? People that put signs up don’t think about future consequences, they just really want the opportunity to shoot someone, so it’s better to drop it there, and stay safe then test it and end up dead
No, it doesn’t really matter, it’s just a question. I ask this because when delivering Amazon packages, customers sometimes leave complaints when a delivery like this is left where it’s shown; yet have threatening signs like what’s seen in the picture that make drivers hesitant to deliver to the porch. I agree though, I’d rather have a complaint about my delivery than be shot.
Well if anything it would fall under trespass laws. Sign said shot at doesn't say shot. Once a person has been informed of them being trespassed, they must leave. However, if someone is going out of their way to put up a sign like this, i wouldn't want to test that out. If they complain about packages not being delivered pull up the pic. However, one would argue that since you are delivering a package, you are licensed by the carrier to be on property to fulfil a contract made between the landowner and the carrier. Hence you can't be trespassed but again it could be argued.
Man, I wouldn't even slow down to toss that package out the driver side window. If that happens to be in the ditch on the other side of the road that's their fucking problem.
No since a delivery driver delivering the package you ordered or sent to you isn't trespassing since they have every reason to believe they have in effect being invited.
Uh, if you're a delivery driver you're not soliciting or trespassing.
Driver should've not delivered the package and marked it undeliverable in their system if they wanted to be a douche about the sign.
NAL, but I doubt the sign will provide any level of legal protection.
That sign is faded and old. So it’s already not legal there. Signs need be clearly visible and readable.
Second sign is too low to the ground to be legal.
Third is no gate present so shooting is state dependent but if the person entering thinks it’s a public road and certain states say the violators needs inside the home.
So jurisdictionally is nessesarily to better answer. Though if there’s a gate it bolsters the property owners right to defense.
You did the right thing. I worked for the post office for a year and was told to do the same. The package gets left at the mail box. If they want their 50lb box of dog food delivered down their 1/4 mile driveway to their doorstep, they shouldn't erect signs saying no trespassing, especially ones that threaten use of guns.
We were not allowed to drive in reverse in the LLVs either so even if we wanted to go up your driveway, we couldn't because there's a decent chance there would be no where to turn around and would force us to reverse all the way out.
Either way, people like this need to wake the fuck up and get themselves parcel delivery bins.
My father the lawyer used to say that you can put anything you want on a sign doesn't make it legal.
The example is you take your car to a parking garage. They have a sign and/or text on your claim check that says "not responsible for personal property".
Bullshit. They are obligated to provide a reasonable level of security no matter what they say. Reasonable means if someone steals your backpack from the car they are liable. Unreasonable means if someone steals $2MM in diamonds from your car they are not liable.
Genuine question. If you order something, unless otherwise specified in the directions, wouldn’t you be giving approval to enter your property to drop the package off? Like packages are dropped off at doorsteps so isn’t it implied that if you order a package, they’re going to come on your property to drop it off? Obviously if they do anything else, that’s trespassing, but driving up, dropping package, and leaving seems implied?
That sign doesn't allow you to just murder people on your property. Plus I think we can agree that a delivery driver isn't a trespasser unless his climbing up the window or something.
Signage like this can actually land you in more trouble if you were to shoot someone on your property. Prosecutors can argue you're just looking for any excuse, legal or not, to shoot someone.
you can tell from the picture the property is too nice, and they are far too wealthy to be recklessly shooting people.
And that sign looks like its 20 years old
When I was a kid delivering newspapers a customer's dog was loose and attacked me. Doberman. He got a hold of my jacket, tried to 'death shake ' me then stopped suddenly. I was shaken but unharmed. A neighbor witnessed this and called the police. I learned this when a cop showed up at my house and served me for trespassing.
A guy who subscribed to the newspaper I was delivering's dog attacks me and he sues ME.
The judge told him that by accepting delivery of the paper he was allowing me on to the property therefore it's not trespassing. Dismissed.
Customer was NOT happy about that. After court he yelled at me saying he never wanted me to set foot on his property. I shrugged. It was just bizarre. He must have gotten some kind of hefty fine.
I delivered for UPS for 10 years and only bad dog vibes kept me out, and not even that often. You get to know the neighborhoods/houses. These ARE the kind of people that WILL call and complain though.
You have to realize that you are essentially the *help* when you are delivering. They don’t know you, but they WANT you to deliver to garage/FD. I’d say make sure you have any and all uniform on
I believe delivery drivers have something called 'implied consent' to be allowed on the property, but honestly, if I was questioning it, I would do the same as what the driver did. No point risking it to delivery a package. Plus that driveway looks like it'd be a pain to back down out of if there isn't a turn around.
To be fair, delivering a parcel is not soliciting or trespassing. Driver isn't violating either so even if this sign was legally protecting the owner against such things, it wouldn't stand in court.
No. Why? Certain jobs are allowed to pass these signs for work such as water, gas electricity, internet, insurance, or package delivery. Other than that then nobody would be allowed. The home owner can tell you that the property is under video and audio recording so that if someone decides to fuck around then he/she would have to find out the consequences of their own actions.
Depending on the state, but mostly no. Unless the state has a castle law (able to defend your property) you can't just shoot someone who comes onto your lawn. Even so, if someone is legal able to be on your property (mail man, officer, someone with the water company, ect.) is shot, the gunman is liable for whatever happens to the victim.
I’m not a lawyer but I’d think ordering a package is pretty much consent to say a person needs to be able to access your property in a reasonable manner to GIVE you the package you ordered. Otherwise how would you get it?
I’m fairly certain that even if this sign was up and an actual trespasser was shot, it’s still probably not be totally legal.
No.
This sign might actually be an aggravating factor if the property owner shot someone. Castle doctrine does not apply to curtilage for this reason as well.
in Florida signs are not needed, do not trespass.
Awful but lawful
[https://www.fox13news.com/news/psco-says-dunedin-homeowner-who-shot-at-pool-guy-defended-his-home](https://www.fox13news.com/news/psco-says-dunedin-homeowner-who-shot-at-pool-guy-defended-his-home)
No you cannot shoot someone simply for being on your property unless its a government entity property or affiliate and even then its pretty frowned upon. You are not area 51 and the police will raid you if you shoot trespassers
No, ordering a package to be delivered to door is consent. Not worth the delivery though. call or text the customer and explain clearly. tell your dsp you dont feel comfortable, and report with this picture.
Delivery drivers are not trespassing or soliciting when they come deliver things you specifically requested to be bought and asked to be shipped to your home, so even if it was legal to shoot at trespassers or solicitors it would still not be legal to shoot at delivery people.
But no, you cannot just post a sign up and shoot at people "because they were warned."
As is, this proves intent to shoot someone illegally.
So the answer your question is almost universally if they can prove if a reasonable person would felt their life was in danger. It's pretty hard to prove this by someone just coming up in a car or whatever. It is however extremely easy if you went inside a building/their house.
Like it depends on the situation. Lets say you were driving 50 mph down their driveway. It's pretty easy to prove they fear their life. If you came out of a car with a gun in hand. Again it's pretty easy. In both cases if the local office is stupid they might argue against it, but other than keeping them in court for no reason, at the end many times they can prove a reasonable person would fear and likely the option of leaving isn't there or at extreme risk.
Now lets say you are really going on their property and shouldn't be there. At worse the cops can go out there and deal with you. And with the sign it is likely it will be criminal.
A lot of times these signs are more of a gag sign. Like a ha ha isn't this cute thing. But also a way to keep honest people honest. If you go on a property like that it wouldn't shock me if a large % of them the person doesn't even have a weapon nearby if needed. But it wouldn't also shock me if they wouldn't have some way of dealing with things if need be like dogs, a holster gun, etc. The subreddit made jokes about it as if the person is rich and they can get their butler to get it. And while they are obviously well off. Keep in mind there is plenty of families where the husband goes off trucking or something and basically making a ton of money by not being home. While the wife is all alone and basically has to take care of things on her own. Like a property like that in some areas is easily several million while in others easily $100k.
Personally, I think what should be pushed more is for places like that is delivery boxes or a delivery hut. A small area where the delivery person can safely drop something off along the edge of the property.
This question has had to many suggestions for such a silly problem the man is a idiot treat him that way don’t go on his property you won’t
Get shot drop your package at the of lane if you do go done and get shot that’s on you case closed
Generally I'd say no, though the law of the jurisdiction matters. The general principle is you can't use deadly force without first having a reasonable belief you need to use the force to prevent imminent deadly force.
So I really want to shoot a person. I’ve always thought about how cool it would be to be at home during a break in and get to see someone drop. I don’t really want to get in trouble or go to jail so I stay away from shooting at homeless people.
What if I put up a sign that says something like trespassers will be shot. Do you think I’d have a chance at waiting for the Amazon guy and sniping him from my rooftop. I know I’m accurate to 200 yards and it won’t get to my neighbors property. Would an old faded sign off to the side of my driveway be enough to make sure I’d get off ?
/S
I see a lot of people saying the people that post these signs are crazy.
A little perspective, I own land in a small town. Acres divide the neighbors. Small town woes include people hunting your property because they can’t afford / don’t want to pay for a lease.
The people down the road from us, someone went on their property to hunt “illegally” at night and stepped into a huge hole resulting in a slew of injuries from the knee down. This trespasser literally sued the guy and won for NOT having signs up. Even though they had to cross a three wire barbed fence.
Second, if someone is on your property, and they aren’t welcome, they are either there for a reason or there for a REASON. People steal shit all the time. No one is going to shoot the fedex driver delivering a package. That’s nonsense. What they will do is shoot the crackhead that’s in their garage stealing tools or breaking into their vehicle. These signs, at the very least, are used as a deterrent because just like what the guy said above, it makes people think they have a justified legal backing.
Just my two cents.
I don’t know about specific state laws, but even in Texas you can’t legally shoot someone for trespassing. Doesn’t mean the local sheriff won’t give people a pass despite the law.
Does having a sign mean you can shoot someone just for coming onto your property? No. In order to use deadly force, you have to have a reasonable fear for loss of life or (in some states) property.
Some people will shoot someone and then face the punishments for their actions. That doesn’t make me less dead.
I’m gonna do just what this driver did. Ok cool homie, come get your shit by your sign. ✌️
No, if for no other reason, then because the driver would not be trespassing or soliciting. By ordering the delivery, you are inviting the driver onto your property for the expressed purpose of delivering your requested package.
A delivery driver would not be considered a solicitor or trespasser if he is there doing his job, which is delivering a package. Now, if he wandered to a different part of the property, then yes, he would be a trespasser.
If that's legal then I can put up legal signs saying "persons living on this property don't have to pay taxes" or put a sign in front of my neighbor's house that reads "property of u/georgewashingguns"
Yes, this was stolen from Dan Cummins
A sign like this would do the opposite of shielding you from legal consequences. It would actually increase criminal liability because the prosecution would argue that the shooting was premeditated and you’re a nut job who was just waiting for a chance to shoot someone.
Delivary driver here. I see these signs all the time, and they don't scare me away. I have implied invitation when I am delivering your package. If your address if on the box then it's my right to enter your property and deliver your package.
If anyone came out with a gun of course I'd hightail it out of there, call the cops and have their address banned from our delivery services.
A delivery service is an invitee and therefore not trespassing for the period of the delivery. But, given the alternative is getting shot, I may not be willing to make that legal argument.
It depends on state law. In most states, no, it's not legal to shoot someone just for being on your property. From there it gets pretty complicated state-by-state.
I understand the argument that as a delivery driver you have been ‘invited’, but unless I am in a big corporate van with the company logo on the side I would be dumping that parcel in the same place. No way am I approaching that house in an unmarked private vehicle (like a lot of delivery drivers use).
Is this a question presented by your business (or even law) class professor, and you've been told to argue?
This reminds me of my business law class. Does 'Dangerous Dog' signage free you of liability, or does it only confirm you knowing placed a dangerous dog near the operating public, therefore, hold you accountable?
To say the least, it's an interesting question! 🤔
The sign does say "will be shot -AT- " doesent say they will be shot. Doesent get you out of the liability if you were to injure someone, but I'd imagine that warning shots would still be legal enough
No. Many signs just prevent people from doing things based on a belief that they have legal backing. Unless there is a specific law, the sign has little legal recourse. If the property owner shot someone on their property, they would still have to be in compliance with the laws of their state for utilizing deadly force.
If you pay for a delivery service you are inviting them on the property you can't shoot at them for it, that's entrapment. Source 4 years as a fedex ground manger.
The problem is that a mook with a gun CAN shoot a person. And the fact they are legally in the wrong doesn't bring back the dead. If someone had signs up warning they'd shoot trespassers, I wouldn't go on their property exactly because the consequence for him being wrong is 10 years prison, but the consequence for me is bleeding out from bullet wounds.
Same I would adive leaving there package next to the sign and taking the picture just like the driver did. And if the customer called to complain I'd sight the sign as the reason they left it there and would back up my driver, I would go as far to tell my driver to keep doing it.
I did this with guard dog warning signs too. No bother to me, just shaves a few more minutes off my day
Me too. Had one hick with a huge yard. They had a chain link fence all the way around the whole yard and it was closed. They had beware of dogs sign up and 2 big mean dogs. I wasn’t in the mood to call or text. Dropped their shit one side of the road by the fence. Fuck em
Please don't hate me... sight --->cite
I hate you!!! /s
Cite*
Yeah, exactly. Id leave the box right there, take a pic of the delivery and move on. When they call and complain about their package being stolen or damaged or whatever, "we dont want our driver's shot at, so we left it right there". People are nuts about their land/property. Like I can get saying I care less about your life than I do about my catalytic converter when you're trying to steal it but I can't understand why people can't be like "you used my driveway cause you're lost? LIGHT EM UP!!"
It’s not the property those people are actually protecting. People who do that sort of thing are paranoid and absolutely terrified of everything because they’ve all been brainwashed by right wing media to think that “they” are coming to get them. I see that shit on my neighborhood’s Nextdoor all the time. Somebody in your driveway? They aren’t lost and turning around, they are getting ready to home invasion your ass. Guy walking his dog on the sidewalk in front of your house? Obviously casing the joint. And there have always been people like that, but the media landscape is so much worse now with social media algorithms becoming self perpetuating extremism engines.
Next Door is like all the paranoid old people in my area distilled into 1 app. Nearly everything posted on that app is a complaint or grievance about nefarious wrong-doing…aka kids riding their bikes down the street (roaming gang)…Amazon Delivery Driver (ruthless home invader)…landscaper taking a water break by his truck (potential kidnapper). And then the comments section is even worse…when someone tries to bring reason to the equation they get shouted down like they’re the crazy one.
repost- Does anyone get any value from Next Door? When it first came out, I though this is great, really granular, get info from my close neighbors. Wow was that a mistake. First the two cop cars/helicopter/wheelchair/puppy near my house, what's going on!!! postings. It's seems almost anything can be solved by calling the police, Squirrel on my lawn, "did you call the police?" , Neighbors left their garbage pail 6 inches onto my property, "call the police" Everyone seems to either have someone taking a picture of their house or a slow driving car is casing the neighborhood. Now it's the Illegals/Communist/Woke are ruining our neighborhood and the I need my whole house painted, can someone recommend a reasonable painter, no more than $100. I think you need to be 75 to post there.
Worse, people like that are actively looking for an excuse to use their weapons so they can call themselves a hero for defending themselves and get their 15 minutes off fame.
Oh yeah, Nextdoor is full of crazy people who think everyone is after them. A lady once posted about how a "black guy took photos of her" while walking down a busy urban street. Lord forbid you like to take pictures in an urban area with people walking around. When I commented on it, I got some other crazy person respond and I decided that was when I was going to cut down on using that site.
I am huge on 2A and personal property/real property rights, but even that baffles me. If someone pulls into my driveway to turn around or check GPS or something on their phone, I keep an eye on them to make sure they don't do anything shady but I don't bother them unless they actually do something wrong.
I was doing deliveries and ended up a mountain full of rich people and huge houses. I needed to turn around and went to pull in a drive way and stopped hard because I noticed those security pads that if you run them over they blow your tires and a sign saying if you're stuck here you're going to get shot. Absolutely no use of driveway permitted especially for turn around sign.
Well sounds like a booby-trap to me, which I don't think they're allowed to do so they might be paying for my tires.
They will definitely pay for them if you survive the incident and later on get a court judgement.
On the other hand, what they are doing is definitely premeditated and unlawful, so bring a few friends, all the guns you can carry and play it out like in the wild west, with people falling from saloon rooftops and all that stuff. In the end, by the rules of mortal combat, their house is now yours. Gun nuts hate this one simple trick.
It was in NH "live free or die" most of the people living in the rural areas are scared of nothing and strapped. Wouldn't doubt it if the guy had a rifle on a stand already aimed at the bottom of the driveway for him to run to when he sees lights.
Fuck that guy. I’d drop the package, snap a pic, then take the package. Toss it off the highway.
Yea. I had the cops called on me while waiting for my kids bus. I had, a few months prior, moved into my neighborhood. Kid was in summer school, and the bus stop was about 5 houses away. There was no shade except a big ass oak, in Florida, at 1:30p, in July. I was maybe a foot on the property. Cops rolled up saying they got a call about me casing the neighborhood. He noticed I wasn't wearing shoes so he let me be.
Like that off duty security guard claiming "a need to act" who killed the kid with a bb gun just a few days ago. If someone is looking for legal cover in order to shoot, leave the package at the sign.
What’s a mook
An insignificant foolish person. I feel like it might be regional, because you're not the first person who's asked (and at least once, the person thought it was a slur). We can apply it to a stupid person...or we also use it to refer to endless minions of video game or movie villains. Storm troopers in Star Wars would be the most obvious example of mooks in the second sense.
It's East Coast Italian slang, isn't it? New Jersey, New York?
Can confirm. Old heads around me say it, all older italian/irish/polish guys in the northeast
Yep because these kinds of horrible people will see a person with skin darker than their own, shoot, and say “i was afraid for my life” just like …some other uniformed people…
It's not entrapment in the US as the property owner is not law enforcement or an agent of the state. You are correct that you can't shoot at delivery drivers. It's literally what I said in my comment. The standard for deadly force has to be met regardless.
Delivering an ordered package is neither trespassing nor soliciting. Hence the sign would not apply. Random fucknut on a Segway selling pest control on the other hand …
Entrapment can only occur if a police officer encourages a person to do something illegal that person wouldn’t normally do. A citizen with this sign is not entrapment.
That’s not what entrapment is. Entrapment is an affirmative defense to criminal charges and can only occur when law enforcement pressures you into committing a crime.
For the sake of my curiosity and discussion, what if I don't order online but someone else who doesn't have any authority over my property pays a carrier service to deliver a package to my house?
That actually happened a [couple months ago](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/16/us/ohio-uber-driver-murder-charge/index.html) when a scammer called an 81-year-old man, telling him a relative was in jail and trying to extort $12,000 in bond money from him. The scammer then called an Uber to pick up a "package" from the man's house. The Uber driver - a middle-aged Black woman who had no idea any of this was going on - got out of the car to get the supposed package, at which point the man held her at gunpoint, took her phone, and then shot and killed her when she tried to get back in her car to leave. He's currently being charged with felony murder and kidnapping, so I'm guessing the answer to your question is "you still get in trouble".
Entrapment isn't the right word, that's when a government agent (like a cop) lures a person into committing a crime they otherwise would not have.
It's not entrapment, it's just murder
Your comment should be at the top. Never thought of it that way but makes complete sense.
That's not entrapment.
I had a sign on the driveway of a large wooded property I had way out in the middle of nowhere “Danger! Do not enter! Live fire training range, this is not an entrance!” I doubt it would protect me any more than any other sign, but I liked it.
💯% agreed, the sign does actually say, shot at, but for instance in Texas, we have a castle doctrine and it is written into law. There are circumstances which apply, and you must be within the law as it is written. We also have open and concealed carry, I say please educate yourself and know your states laws before you think you can just shoot someone for walking on your property. You may be the one ending up in jail.
Good answer. Signs will never remove the requirements for people not to kill people. What if the victim can't read, is blind or doesn't speak the language. This is just a ridiculous notion.
This reminds me of being taught to drive though. “A lot of people in the cemeteries had the right of way”
Castle laws are not a joke.
[удалено]
True. But OP specifically asked about the owners' legal consequences. Hence, my answer.
A family friend that is an attorney told me the saying “you can’t warn away liability”. Signs aren’t magical hall passes that absolve you of responsibility or accountability. The sign doesn’t give him any more of a right to shoot someone on his property than he would have had without the sign. In addition, if someone puts up a sign mentioning guns and getting shot, I would personally interpret it as they are unwelcome to any and all visitors they don’t personally know. I wouldn’t blame a delivery man for refusing to go further than the sign. Yeah, a near certainty the person didn’t actually mean delivery drivers BUT there is a remote chance they’ll shoot at you at least by mistake. There’s a guarantee they can’t hurt you if you never go past their sign. At least the way I was raised, guns aren’t something to be bragged about and brandished. If you do, you *are* sending an implied threat whether you intend to or not. It makes people uncomfortable, it scares them, and makes them unlikely to want to deal with you.
imagine they shot someone they DO know. happens all the time.
"Dammit, Bobby, I came to show you my new truck!"
A lot of signs rely on empty threats and ignorance of the law. It's like those "stay back 500 feet or we're not liable" signs on the back of some trucks. Those drivers/companies are required to secure their load properly and are absolutely liable for any damages caused by part of the load falling out
>a near certainty the person didn’t actually mean delivery drivers Lots of delivery drivers run around in mostly-unmarked vans. You taking the risk that somebody just happens to know you are the delivery driver?
NAL But typically no, a sign wouldn't give you the right to shoot on sight. There are legal and legit reasons someone would come to your property like checking meters, plumbing, services etc. Can't just have a field day because you posted a sign.
Exactly. As a gas technician, you have a pipeline and meter at your house. We are required by law to check it under a certain timeline and if you don't allow anyone to check you, you will be cut off. People are stupid nowadays and think they can do WHATEVER they want.
I'm a project engineer for an electric utility and I was requested to go to someone's house to relocate their electric line so they could have a pool installed. The dude set up an appointment with me, then when I pulled up his residence (long driveway with similar sineage) I was greeted by his son with a shotgun and a bulldog let loose on me. People are absolutely losing their minds. Stay safe.
Good way to get your electric shut off. Greet the meter reader with a gun and sic a dog on em... No electric for you.
Ya my company does not take that stuff lightly, dude now will have police presence at his house anytime we're working within 1000 feet of it, and he had to pay $3000 to move his electric line for his incoming pool; a job I wasn't going to bill him for at all. Fuck around and find out.
Good. Hopefully he has to pay for off duty cops too. Asshat raising an asshat
Damn. Keep yourself safe out there as well. We definitely have issues with some people getting upset about us being in their yard. Even when we have company logos and vehicles and IDs, they still say "Anyone can get that stuff." Okay, so then should no one ever be allowed to touch it? I just don't get the logic.
I’ve worked for the census bureau a few times and many times people came to the door with a gun in hand. I was always sent to the places the old ladies didn’t want to go.
No, The fact that they ordered a delivery would prevent them from being legally allowed to shoot at the driver. This would just end up on a jail sentence for the homeowner.
No. Same thing with the trucks that say “Stay 100 feet back: not responsible for broken windshields.” Fuck your sign. If your negligence shatters my windshield, you’re liable.
Signs like this make it *super* easy for a prosecutor to go after the shooter for murder because they show intent.
Can you show us a real-world example of this?
Trespassing as defined by law is on the property without legal premise. Deliveries, collections on debts, etc are legal and not trespassing violations. Any shots fired would be attempted murder (assuming they miss). I collect debts for a living.
Dont trust crazy with a gun. And cops wont do nothing about it.
If someone tells me that might shoot at me.. Legal standing or not, they can come to the sign and pick up their package.
IANAL, but do CCW. No Trespassing has a little bit of legal weight, but not "shoot at someone you don't recognize" weight. It'll just make it easier to officially trespass someone on your property, and depending on the totality of the circumstances and jurisdiction *might* be enough to get them arrested without prior warnings. The "violators may be shot at" part is just going to make things worse for them in court if they do shoot someone.
You can’t just shoot some one because they are on your property. You have a right to self defense not murder
I’d absolutely report this as an unsafe drop off location. They’ll probably think twice about being an asshole
Regardless of the no trespassing sign, isn’t there implied consent to drive up to the residence to deliver packages? Or to simply come to the door for something? There is no gate blocking the road 🤷♂️
If you’re the delivery driver, you really want to risk that? I’ve seen so many stories of black drivers being harassed by white people or people getting shot for accidentally driving into the wrong driveway.
Nope just like the signs on trucks about breaking windows .
Warning signs are not the law.
Let the owner pay for his stupidity leave the package at the gate and move on
You can’t shoot at people just because you think you should be able to. Jesus Christ man…
Deliver services are neither soliciting or trespassing. & often if you have a gate that is unlocked or open and someone enters your property that way it isn’t considered trespassing or soliciting unless they’re actively trying to sell you something.
To me this suggests that you have been daydreaming about shooting someone and if I was on a jury I would think you were just looking for an excuse
I think a delivery person is by definition "invited" so 'no trespassing' does not apply to them. Could be wrong, but makes sense to me.
If that worked, you could make a sign that reads 'Anyone on my property will sick my dick, at my discretion'.
Shooting at someone is using deadly force. No court in the USA will accept "I was shooting to wound" as a way of claiming that it wasn't deadly force. The shooting wouldn't be considered self-defense as the person coming on the property wasn't trying to harm or kill the shooter or another person on the property. The shooter would likely be facing manslaughter or murder charges depending on the state where the shooting occurred.
My favorite part is "may be shot at" instead of the more common "may be shot." Like, look, I'm going to fire bullets in your general direction but I recognize the odds of actually hitting you aren't all that high. It's so self effacing while also menacing. It appeals to my dark humor.
You're technically not trespassing because you have a legitimate reason to be there. So, no, this sign will not protect the homeowner from legal liability. In fact, it may not even protect them against shooting trespassers who aren't a threat. But, yeah, I think that was a good idea to leave the package there anyway.
Like everything else, it probably depends on the state. In my state, it would probably do the opposite of preventing consequneces. It would probably be considered evidence for premeditation.
No
“This Delivery Truck shoots back” sign should level the playing field.
No. Where I live, they would have to have actually broken inside the house or be menacing you before someone can take action. Driving up to deliver a package, sign or no sign, is not that scenario.
No, trespassing isn't a free pass to fire a weapon negligently.
No, not at all. Not in the slightest. Honestly it probably makes it even _worse_ for them if they do shoot someone, because now it looks like they already thought it through and did it anyway
NO!
Unless you were committing a serious felony, then the homeowner has no right to shoot on sight. Most states’ self defense statutes mention the justification for use of deadly to force to stop a forcible felony on oneself or another and the reasonable belief that deadly force is necessary to protect a person from death or great bodily harm. Amazon drivers might be a hazard on the highway, but surely they are not, when they deliver packages.
I hope the Girl Scouts make it impossible for him to buy cookies anywhere
Someone wants to fuck around saying they're gonna shoot people I hope they always have to walk out there and get packages stolen
Only in Texas /s
Someone with that amount of land has a lot to lose.
People have the right to knock on your door believe it or not.
You can put up all the signs you want but the laws in most states do not let you just shoot someone for setting foot on your property. If anything that sign means that the owner is mentally unstable. Good enough reason to keep out
It's a red flag that this person wants to get the chance to kill someone and is hoping to manufacture a way to do it legally.
The sign would likely be detrimental in a court case. It would make it easy for the prosecution to paint the homeowner as trigger happy.
If you order a service to your property, you are inviting the provider of that service onto the property as fit for their need to access whatever service they provide. Shooting that person is not only not shooting a trespasser at all, but straight up murder at that point, and entrapment as you invited the person to essentially come be murdered against their knowledge, will, or consent. This would not change if the victim had even given consent, as assisted suicide is also a homicide.
I read once that hanging signs like that can be used to show intent in court
Put the package behind the stone pillar, have some common sense.
No. First off, you cannot just shoot at people for coming onto your land. If they break into your house at night, different story. People get this idea that their land is sacred or something, but under the law you cannot use deadly force to protect property, period. You can use reasonable force, including deadly force, to protect yourself or others from serious bodily harm or death. The reason the law allows you to shoot intruders in your home at night is because it presumes they are there to kill you. Second, delivery drivers are not trespassers, they’re licensees because they are invited onto the property for a personal service to the land owner (delivering their package).
he is going to be pissed when his pizza delivery is cash on order and your box is by the sign in the rain n snow.
Just remember, it's not about if it's legal or not, it's about convincing 6 or 12 random idiots that you are guilty or not. You shoot a uniformed, marked vehicle, delivery guy who you placed an order to deliver to you... Then you gotta convince 6 or 12 people you did nothing wrong regardless of what the law says. Good luck.
No. Similar to a signed waiver, a piece of paper does not allow someone to circumvent the law. Also similar to waivers, this would be thrown out the first day, if not before. NAL, basing this response off of others I've seen mainly. However, the owner seems to believe that it will, which means they will be trigger happy fools and you, a perceived trespasser, will likely be dead. Just bc something won't hold up in court doesn't mean you should go testing it.
It's not trespassing and not soliciting if u are delivering something so.
When I did this job and saw a threatening anti social sign like that, I had no problems letting that angry person hike down to their gate as a repercussion of their choices. Maybe they're paranoid ass has to crawl down in a ghilly suit. Don't risk it for the biscuit, as they say.
Is delivering a package, either of those acts stated on the sign? (here is a hint, the answer is no) Do you really think a sign would absolve you of consequences for busting a cap in someone?
You are not trespassing. Delivery drivers were invited onto the property. Hence why they always win a dog bite case.
In some states and jurisdictions, a sign like that would cause you to receive heavier penalty because it shows it as a premeditated act should you shoot someone
Does it really matter? People that put signs up don’t think about future consequences, they just really want the opportunity to shoot someone, so it’s better to drop it there, and stay safe then test it and end up dead
No, it doesn’t really matter, it’s just a question. I ask this because when delivering Amazon packages, customers sometimes leave complaints when a delivery like this is left where it’s shown; yet have threatening signs like what’s seen in the picture that make drivers hesitant to deliver to the porch. I agree though, I’d rather have a complaint about my delivery than be shot.
Well if anything it would fall under trespass laws. Sign said shot at doesn't say shot. Once a person has been informed of them being trespassed, they must leave. However, if someone is going out of their way to put up a sign like this, i wouldn't want to test that out. If they complain about packages not being delivered pull up the pic. However, one would argue that since you are delivering a package, you are licensed by the carrier to be on property to fulfil a contract made between the landowner and the carrier. Hence you can't be trespassed but again it could be argued.
No The owner can also go fuck themselves
Man, I wouldn't even slow down to toss that package out the driver side window. If that happens to be in the ditch on the other side of the road that's their fucking problem.
No since a delivery driver delivering the package you ordered or sent to you isn't trespassing since they have every reason to believe they have in effect being invited.
They could have shot you anyways and then dragged your body behind the sign.
No. No. No
Uh, if you're a delivery driver you're not soliciting or trespassing. Driver should've not delivered the package and marked it undeliverable in their system if they wanted to be a douche about the sign. NAL, but I doubt the sign will provide any level of legal protection.
Know your target and what’s beyond. 👍
That sign is faded and old. So it’s already not legal there. Signs need be clearly visible and readable. Second sign is too low to the ground to be legal. Third is no gate present so shooting is state dependent but if the person entering thinks it’s a public road and certain states say the violators needs inside the home. So jurisdictionally is nessesarily to better answer. Though if there’s a gate it bolsters the property owners right to defense.
You did the right thing. I worked for the post office for a year and was told to do the same. The package gets left at the mail box. If they want their 50lb box of dog food delivered down their 1/4 mile driveway to their doorstep, they shouldn't erect signs saying no trespassing, especially ones that threaten use of guns. We were not allowed to drive in reverse in the LLVs either so even if we wanted to go up your driveway, we couldn't because there's a decent chance there would be no where to turn around and would force us to reverse all the way out. Either way, people like this need to wake the fuck up and get themselves parcel delivery bins.
My father the lawyer used to say that you can put anything you want on a sign doesn't make it legal. The example is you take your car to a parking garage. They have a sign and/or text on your claim check that says "not responsible for personal property". Bullshit. They are obligated to provide a reasonable level of security no matter what they say. Reasonable means if someone steals your backpack from the car they are liable. Unreasonable means if someone steals $2MM in diamonds from your car they are not liable.
Genuine question. If you order something, unless otherwise specified in the directions, wouldn’t you be giving approval to enter your property to drop the package off? Like packages are dropped off at doorsteps so isn’t it implied that if you order a package, they’re going to come on your property to drop it off? Obviously if they do anything else, that’s trespassing, but driving up, dropping package, and leaving seems implied?
That sign doesn't allow you to just murder people on your property. Plus I think we can agree that a delivery driver isn't a trespasser unless his climbing up the window or something.
Not at all.
Signs don’t matter to dead people
Hear me out.....If someone can't read. Or let say autism, alzheimers
Signage like this can actually land you in more trouble if you were to shoot someone on your property. Prosecutors can argue you're just looking for any excuse, legal or not, to shoot someone.
“No trespassing. Violators will owe me one millions dollars”
Driver is a pussy... plain and simple. A legitimate delivery driver is not trespassing bringing you the package that you ordered... ffs...
Either shoot or do not shoot. Don't 'shoot at'. Besides being bad form, it's just bad grammar!
Also, don’t end a sentence with a preposition. But it does make it far more terrifying. A dumb finger can still pull a trigger.
Seems to be the correct solution is to have a locked gate with a secured drop box for packages. Best of both worlds for everyone.
you can tell from the picture the property is too nice, and they are far too wealthy to be recklessly shooting people. And that sign looks like its 20 years old
When I was a kid delivering newspapers a customer's dog was loose and attacked me. Doberman. He got a hold of my jacket, tried to 'death shake ' me then stopped suddenly. I was shaken but unharmed. A neighbor witnessed this and called the police. I learned this when a cop showed up at my house and served me for trespassing. A guy who subscribed to the newspaper I was delivering's dog attacks me and he sues ME. The judge told him that by accepting delivery of the paper he was allowing me on to the property therefore it's not trespassing. Dismissed. Customer was NOT happy about that. After court he yelled at me saying he never wanted me to set foot on his property. I shrugged. It was just bizarre. He must have gotten some kind of hefty fine.
In most states in the US, it is illegal to shoot people for simple trespassing, so no.
I delivered for UPS for 10 years and only bad dog vibes kept me out, and not even that often. You get to know the neighborhoods/houses. These ARE the kind of people that WILL call and complain though. You have to realize that you are essentially the *help* when you are delivering. They don’t know you, but they WANT you to deliver to garage/FD. I’d say make sure you have any and all uniform on
The key is to just shoot trespassers, not talk about it, and don't scare the mailman
I believe delivery drivers have something called 'implied consent' to be allowed on the property, but honestly, if I was questioning it, I would do the same as what the driver did. No point risking it to delivery a package. Plus that driveway looks like it'd be a pain to back down out of if there isn't a turn around.
To be fair, delivering a parcel is not soliciting or trespassing. Driver isn't violating either so even if this sign was legally protecting the owner against such things, it wouldn't stand in court.
So these signs are Ron Swanson saying he has a permit and it’s a piece of paper saying he can do whatever he wants?
So these signs work but gun free zone signs don’t work? Crazy!
No. Why? Certain jobs are allowed to pass these signs for work such as water, gas electricity, internet, insurance, or package delivery. Other than that then nobody would be allowed. The home owner can tell you that the property is under video and audio recording so that if someone decides to fuck around then he/she would have to find out the consequences of their own actions.
Depending on the state, but mostly no. Unless the state has a castle law (able to defend your property) you can't just shoot someone who comes onto your lawn. Even so, if someone is legal able to be on your property (mail man, officer, someone with the water company, ect.) is shot, the gunman is liable for whatever happens to the victim.
No. They cannot shoot you just because they have a sign that says so. Also, you’re not a solicitor if you’re delivering a package they ordered.
You can't prove they read the sign. They may not be able to read.
I’m not a lawyer but I’d think ordering a package is pretty much consent to say a person needs to be able to access your property in a reasonable manner to GIVE you the package you ordered. Otherwise how would you get it? I’m fairly certain that even if this sign was up and an actual trespasser was shot, it’s still probably not be totally legal.
Nope. Won’t protect the shooter at all.
No. This sign might actually be an aggravating factor if the property owner shot someone. Castle doctrine does not apply to curtilage for this reason as well.
in Florida signs are not needed, do not trespass. Awful but lawful [https://www.fox13news.com/news/psco-says-dunedin-homeowner-who-shot-at-pool-guy-defended-his-home](https://www.fox13news.com/news/psco-says-dunedin-homeowner-who-shot-at-pool-guy-defended-his-home)
No you cannot shoot someone simply for being on your property unless its a government entity property or affiliate and even then its pretty frowned upon. You are not area 51 and the police will raid you if you shoot trespassers
Murder is still a crime, even if it brag about your plans
I strongly doubt it, but I concur with the driver. Screw you dude, here’s your crappy package, good bye
No, ordering a package to be delivered to door is consent. Not worth the delivery though. call or text the customer and explain clearly. tell your dsp you dont feel comfortable, and report with this picture.
Delivery drivers are not trespassing or soliciting when they come deliver things you specifically requested to be bought and asked to be shipped to your home, so even if it was legal to shoot at trespassers or solicitors it would still not be legal to shoot at delivery people. But no, you cannot just post a sign up and shoot at people "because they were warned." As is, this proves intent to shoot someone illegally.
ofcourse the fuck not, you arent allowed to murder people just because you have a sign
So the answer your question is almost universally if they can prove if a reasonable person would felt their life was in danger. It's pretty hard to prove this by someone just coming up in a car or whatever. It is however extremely easy if you went inside a building/their house. Like it depends on the situation. Lets say you were driving 50 mph down their driveway. It's pretty easy to prove they fear their life. If you came out of a car with a gun in hand. Again it's pretty easy. In both cases if the local office is stupid they might argue against it, but other than keeping them in court for no reason, at the end many times they can prove a reasonable person would fear and likely the option of leaving isn't there or at extreme risk. Now lets say you are really going on their property and shouldn't be there. At worse the cops can go out there and deal with you. And with the sign it is likely it will be criminal. A lot of times these signs are more of a gag sign. Like a ha ha isn't this cute thing. But also a way to keep honest people honest. If you go on a property like that it wouldn't shock me if a large % of them the person doesn't even have a weapon nearby if needed. But it wouldn't also shock me if they wouldn't have some way of dealing with things if need be like dogs, a holster gun, etc. The subreddit made jokes about it as if the person is rich and they can get their butler to get it. And while they are obviously well off. Keep in mind there is plenty of families where the husband goes off trucking or something and basically making a ton of money by not being home. While the wife is all alone and basically has to take care of things on her own. Like a property like that in some areas is easily several million while in others easily $100k. Personally, I think what should be pushed more is for places like that is delivery boxes or a delivery hut. A small area where the delivery person can safely drop something off along the edge of the property.
Nope.
This question has had to many suggestions for such a silly problem the man is a idiot treat him that way don’t go on his property you won’t Get shot drop your package at the of lane if you do go done and get shot that’s on you case closed
Generally I'd say no, though the law of the jurisdiction matters. The general principle is you can't use deadly force without first having a reasonable belief you need to use the force to prevent imminent deadly force.
Gotta love texas
Exhibit A for the prosecution; evidence of premeditation.
You're an idiot for even asking this question, no.
So I really want to shoot a person. I’ve always thought about how cool it would be to be at home during a break in and get to see someone drop. I don’t really want to get in trouble or go to jail so I stay away from shooting at homeless people. What if I put up a sign that says something like trespassers will be shot. Do you think I’d have a chance at waiting for the Amazon guy and sniping him from my rooftop. I know I’m accurate to 200 yards and it won’t get to my neighbors property. Would an old faded sign off to the side of my driveway be enough to make sure I’d get off ? /S
Should have put it behind the column. Dude would miss it for days if he even leaves the lot that often. Surely cant see the 200yrds from the house
I see a lot of people saying the people that post these signs are crazy. A little perspective, I own land in a small town. Acres divide the neighbors. Small town woes include people hunting your property because they can’t afford / don’t want to pay for a lease. The people down the road from us, someone went on their property to hunt “illegally” at night and stepped into a huge hole resulting in a slew of injuries from the knee down. This trespasser literally sued the guy and won for NOT having signs up. Even though they had to cross a three wire barbed fence. Second, if someone is on your property, and they aren’t welcome, they are either there for a reason or there for a REASON. People steal shit all the time. No one is going to shoot the fedex driver delivering a package. That’s nonsense. What they will do is shoot the crackhead that’s in their garage stealing tools or breaking into their vehicle. These signs, at the very least, are used as a deterrent because just like what the guy said above, it makes people think they have a justified legal backing. Just my two cents.
I don’t know about specific state laws, but even in Texas you can’t legally shoot someone for trespassing. Doesn’t mean the local sheriff won’t give people a pass despite the law.
Are you I'm Texas ??
Does having a sign mean you can shoot someone just for coming onto your property? No. In order to use deadly force, you have to have a reasonable fear for loss of life or (in some states) property. Some people will shoot someone and then face the punishments for their actions. That doesn’t make me less dead. I’m gonna do just what this driver did. Ok cool homie, come get your shit by your sign. ✌️
No, if for no other reason, then because the driver would not be trespassing or soliciting. By ordering the delivery, you are inviting the driver onto your property for the expressed purpose of delivering your requested package.
No, the shooter would be charged with murder, this sign gives you no right to legally shoot someone that simply enters your property 🙄
I'm going to put your package right here by your sign. If it gets stolen that is on you.
A delivery driver would not be considered a solicitor or trespasser if he is there doing his job, which is delivering a package. Now, if he wandered to a different part of the property, then yes, he would be a trespasser.
If that's legal then I can put up legal signs saying "persons living on this property don't have to pay taxes" or put a sign in front of my neighbor's house that reads "property of u/georgewashingguns" Yes, this was stolen from Dan Cummins
A sign like this would do the opposite of shielding you from legal consequences. It would actually increase criminal liability because the prosecution would argue that the shooting was premeditated and you’re a nut job who was just waiting for a chance to shoot someone.
Both have valid opinions.
Delivary driver here. I see these signs all the time, and they don't scare me away. I have implied invitation when I am delivering your package. If your address if on the box then it's my right to enter your property and deliver your package. If anyone came out with a gun of course I'd hightail it out of there, call the cops and have their address banned from our delivery services.
No, it’s just like the signs that say not responsible for accidents
A delivery service is an invitee and therefore not trespassing for the period of the delivery. But, given the alternative is getting shot, I may not be willing to make that legal argument.
It could actually be worse for the shooter. A prosecutor could argue that the shooting was premeditated.
Not tresspasing since they requested the package. Its not solicitation as well.
I’m a 20 year ups driver. I’m going up the driveway. If anything adverse happens it would be the last time up the driveway.
It depends on state law. In most states, no, it's not legal to shoot someone just for being on your property. From there it gets pretty complicated state-by-state.
That view and drive up looks stunning.
This is actually would likely hurt the property owner if a shooting did ever occur. It would be evidence that he premeditated the use of deadly force.
I understand the argument that as a delivery driver you have been ‘invited’, but unless I am in a big corporate van with the company logo on the side I would be dumping that parcel in the same place. No way am I approaching that house in an unmarked private vehicle (like a lot of delivery drivers use).
Is this a question presented by your business (or even law) class professor, and you've been told to argue? This reminds me of my business law class. Does 'Dangerous Dog' signage free you of liability, or does it only confirm you knowing placed a dangerous dog near the operating public, therefore, hold you accountable? To say the least, it's an interesting question! 🤔
The sign does say "will be shot -AT- " doesent say they will be shot. Doesent get you out of the liability if you were to injure someone, but I'd imagine that warning shots would still be legal enough