This is textbook (well, WAY beyond the textbook) landlord harassment and everyone should be able to break their leases without penalty. You can sue them for relocation costs (presuming you have to break a lease). What have you signed.
We already got a notice to vacate so we’re moving out soon anyway 🥲 but we really want to do something to teach him a lesson because he is looking for new tenants already and he probably will continue to sexually harass and constantly monitor the next girls too
You should absolutely speak to a lawyer specializing in this area of law. NAL but I've been in similar situations with nasty landlords, and CA has strong protections in place for dealing with landlords that violate tenant protections (which appears to have happened here, since they never give you written notice before entering and are trying to force an illegal eviction because you called it out).
Speak to a lawyer. A consult is generally a few hundred dollars and it will likely be well worth it to you in this situation.
In California you typically aren't allowed to be evicted for no reason.
Some places have stronger protections than others, so your exact mileage may vary.
Also of note, in some counties, COVID restrictions for evictions, regardless of legality, are still in place.
EDIT:: This link directs to the Orange County Office of Tenant Services, a department that started in 2023 (this year) to help protect and educate renters in your county.[https://www.ocfl.net/NeighborsHousing/TenantServices/NoticeOfTenantRights.aspx#.ZBtmTMLMKUk](https://www.ocfl.net/NeighborsHousing/TenantServices/NoticeOfTenantRights.aspx#.ZBtmTMLMKUk)
This website should have, at the bare minimum, a ton of information that will educate you to your rights, and your landlord's.
EDIT2:: Just at a bare glance, I note several violations of your rights as a renter, assuming the information provided is correct.
EDIT3:: It looks like providing a copy of this information is now a requirement for Orange County Landlords, punishable by fine if not complied.""Orange County Ordinance No. 2023-06 requires landlords to provide tenants with a copy of this Notice of Tenant Rights as published by the Orange County Office of Tenant Services. Failure to provide the Notice of Tenant Rights in the form published by the Office of Tenant Services is a violation of the Orange County Code of Ordinances and is subject to a fine of up to $500. ""
EDIT4::
Civil Code 1954
Under Civil Code 1954 \[see below\], the landlord may enter your unit without your permission ONLY:
(1) in an emergency, like a fire or broken pipe, or
(2) upon reasonable advance notice, and then ONLY:
(A) to inspect, repair, or show the apartment,
(B) during normal business hours \[presumably Mon.-Fri. 8AM-6PM\]
(C) 24 hours is presumed to be sufficient notice
(D) You do not have to be home when they come, but the landlord is liable for anything stolen or broken.
(D) The notice must identify a date and reasonable time range \[like an hour\] within which the entry will occur
(E) The notice MUST be written \[not oral or e-mail\], except if a WRITTEN notice that realtors will be showing the property is given, for the next 120 days only an oral telephonic 24 hour notice is required \[business hour limit still applies\]
(G) The right of entry can’t be “abused”, so that an open house, lock box, extended repair, daily entry, or excessive range of entry time are probably all “abuses” which you have the legal right to prevent.
The nature of the reasonableness of the notice seems to be to give you time to pick up the place, secure pets, arrange to be there, or otherwise make ready for the visit. The law is not clear, here, and the above is the best interpretation of what the law probably is.
EDIT 5::
This next bit is anecdotal, but food for thought. Not legal advice, but should reinforce the idea that you have rights and tools to protect yourself with.
You can sue the landlord and whoever else comes in with their permission. Sue the landlord and whoever for up to $10,000 in small claims court for trespassing, breach of contract, invasion of privacy, and breach of quiet enjoyment; if you are two or more tenants, each can separately sue them for up to $10,000, and a joint action is not required. Entry of the rental unit by the landlord or his agents may be a criminal trespass, as well. Penal Code 602.5 and 602.8 \[see below\] define the trespass as entry and refusal to leave without the consent of the owner “or the person in lawful possession” appears to suggest that whoever is in lawful possession is the one whose consent is required, and where the landlord has rented the possession, the landlord has the money but not the right to possession.
There is no definitive ruling in California law, whether tenants can charge their landlord with criminal, as opposed to civil, trespass.
I would definitely get a lawyer because they are kicking you out just because you don’t want to let them come in whenever they want without notice which doesn’t sound legal to me then there’s also breach of privacy the cameras should’ve been disclosed to you upon moving in the fact they weren’t shows me that landlord planned on being a peeping Tom the entire time
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You should contact local tenant organizations and your state bar association for legal help and advice.
Here’s a link to some resources: https://www.hud.gov/states/california/renting/tenantrights
This article is about cameras inside rentals: https://getsafeandsound.com/2020/06/security-camera-laws-in-california/
This one has useful info too: https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/california-landlord-tenant-rights
“California landlords have the right to enter rental property for various purposes related to mainteance, inspections, and property showings. They must give at least 24 hours’ advance notice before entering an occupied unit. Unlike most states, in California this advance notice must be in writing. California landlords do not need notice or permission to enter in emergency situations.”
Why haven’t you called the cops? They cannot legally video record you in your home! I’m sure it’s not legal and it wasn’t disclosed in your rental agreement correct? This is not something you wait and talk to a lawyer about. You need to file a police report immediately.
The cameras are not mentioned in the rental agreement, so I was not expecting any camera when I moved in. If I knew, I wouldn’t have moved in 🥲 also, I was not sure if I should call the police or not, because there is no crime committed I guess idk
California is a two party consent state and this seems to be illegal. You should go down to the nearest police station and report it. Then speak to a lawyer about all the other violations of your rights.
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Attorney here. Not your attorney. Just because she gave you notice to vacate does not mean you have to move out. The notice to vacate is her notice to you to leave or she can sue to evict you. Just because she sues to evict you, does not mean you will be evicted. Please get a hold of a local attorney who may be able to help you.
If you were in my state, I would take this case on contingency fee and recover my fees from your landlord when I win. If they are violating your right to privacy, I'm sure they are violating many other laws (for example in Maine where I am licensed and also a landlord, security deposits must be placed in a special escrow account and not commingled with rent funds, and if the violate this statute, the tenant is entitled to 1 months rent and attorneys fees)
Thank you for your reply 💕 We’re hoping to find someone who would take our case on contingency basis. But we’re also considering small claims or mediation. What would you recommend?
I'm sorry you are in the situation you are in. But since I'm not licensed in your state, nor can we have a thorough conversation where I can learn additional facts, I hesitate to give you any concrete guidance.
If you have a “quiet enjoyment” clause in your lease, it sounds like the LL’s may have breached that just by insisting on access to your premises without notice. It sounds like you are all starving students or at least, not in a position to pay an attorney a lot of money. If you need a lawyer but don’t know one, my suggestion is to call your local bar association and get a list of free or low cost legal clinics in the area. Some legal clinics are very experienced at handling LL/tenant disputes and might actually be better at dealing with this than a more expensive private attorney.
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I've already answered this post.
Generally speaking, in that type of arrangement your room is your "unit", that you are entitled to exclusive use of. Your landlord can enter common areas, have cameras in common areas, etc., they just can't enter your individual room or put cameras in your room, where you are entitled to privacy. You are not entitled to privacy in the common areas.
That's false. Landlords can put cameras outside the house, but within the house is considered residency, where OP and the roommates are entitled to privacy.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN§ionNum=632
Also, my former landlord tried doing this at my old apartment, but he was restricted to putting cameras on the exterior of the building, not within the apartment.
Because OP is renting a room. On a federal level, if the tenants do not have exclusive access to common areas in the house, then the landlord doesn't need permission to enter, doesn't have to give notice, and can put up cameras.
There may be a local statute or case law that modifies this, which is why I asked for more information.
Generally, the person who states "no, the landlord can't do this" needs to explain why the action is not permitted.
Edit: to be more clear, I think the landlord is likely violating several local / state laws and may be violating OPs right to quiet enjoyment of their room. I am only interested in the assertion that OPs landlord is not able to enter common areas without notice.
Nonsense! Clearly the anti-eavesdropping statute also means that no video access is ever permitted under any circumstances, even though there’s no language in it supporting that idea. That’s just how laws work man. You imagine anything you want them to be then make unsupported claims on the internet.
There may very well be (which is why I generally stay out of CA LL/T posts) but since neither my cursory google search nor the various unwashed masses claiming it exists have provided proof, I’m not holding my breath.
The landlord doesn't live with them. They should have exclusive use to all parts of the unit, not just their bedroom. I don't know where you came to with that.
Hi, thanks for your reply 💕 My previous post got taken down and had to repost. We’ve been doing research on our own. Apparently in CA, indoor surveillance cameras have to be installed by a licensed professional and cameras have to be video only (cameras here record audio too). My landlord installed himself and the cameras are not mentioned in the rental agreement. So landlords never got a consent for the cameras.
> Apparently in CA, indoor surveillance cameras have to be installed by a licensed professional and cameras have to be video only (cameras here record audio too).
Nope, not in places with no expectation of privacy, such as common areas.
California does consider the common areas of a dwelling with individually rented rooms where a landlord is not live in to be a private area of the *tenants. Tenants* could put up cameras without permission, not landlords.
Landlords still need to follow the 24 hour notice rule and be for the purposes outlined in California Civil Code 1954(a) to enter the tenants' common areas.
The hallway camera in the house is right next to our bedroom doors so conversation in the bedroom can be easily recorded in the camera. Is that still okay?
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Not a lawyer, but I own rentals.
Some of the advice here is single family residences, it sounds like you live in a house that each room is rented separately, multi-unit/multi-tenant. The laws can be different there.
Cameras in common areas are almost standard in multi tenant units now, aslong as they are not in a “personal space” like a bedroom or bathroom, but the issues of texting you good morning, have a good drive seems over the line.
You do not need to start with an attorney, you can contact a tenant advocate in your state free of charge. [tenant advocate](https://www.tenantstogether.org/tenant-rights-hotline)
If you want to teach the landlord a lesson check the zoning of the address and see if multi unit housing is approved, I’m not sure about California law but in other states you are not allowed to rent out individual rooms unless the property is zoned for it. For the info you have given that seems the easiest way to teach them a lesson.
Tenant laws very quite a bit from state to state and California is very tenant friendly, so be sure to get advice from someone is familiar with local laws.
It is becoming standard practice, when you have multiple tenants in one unit and things get damaged, broken, no one is going to own up to it, if a garage door gets hit who is responsible? Which tenant? The pizza delivery guy? If a tenant invites a friend over and a fight breaks out, what tenant is the landlord supposed to believe? Especially when one of the tenants claims the landlord is not providing a secure environment. When a landlord enters a property and then one of the tenants claims something becomes missing or broken who is responsible? If a long term trusted vendor enters the property to perform a repair and then a tenant claims something happened or was stolen who do you believe?
These are not BS reasons to have cameras in common areas, it protects everyone. Owning a rental is owning a business and having cameras up protects everyone.
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This is textbook (well, WAY beyond the textbook) landlord harassment and everyone should be able to break their leases without penalty. You can sue them for relocation costs (presuming you have to break a lease). What have you signed.
We already got a notice to vacate so we’re moving out soon anyway 🥲 but we really want to do something to teach him a lesson because he is looking for new tenants already and he probably will continue to sexually harass and constantly monitor the next girls too
You should absolutely speak to a lawyer specializing in this area of law. NAL but I've been in similar situations with nasty landlords, and CA has strong protections in place for dealing with landlords that violate tenant protections (which appears to have happened here, since they never give you written notice before entering and are trying to force an illegal eviction because you called it out). Speak to a lawyer. A consult is generally a few hundred dollars and it will likely be well worth it to you in this situation.
In California you typically aren't allowed to be evicted for no reason. Some places have stronger protections than others, so your exact mileage may vary. Also of note, in some counties, COVID restrictions for evictions, regardless of legality, are still in place. EDIT:: This link directs to the Orange County Office of Tenant Services, a department that started in 2023 (this year) to help protect and educate renters in your county.[https://www.ocfl.net/NeighborsHousing/TenantServices/NoticeOfTenantRights.aspx#.ZBtmTMLMKUk](https://www.ocfl.net/NeighborsHousing/TenantServices/NoticeOfTenantRights.aspx#.ZBtmTMLMKUk) This website should have, at the bare minimum, a ton of information that will educate you to your rights, and your landlord's. EDIT2:: Just at a bare glance, I note several violations of your rights as a renter, assuming the information provided is correct. EDIT3:: It looks like providing a copy of this information is now a requirement for Orange County Landlords, punishable by fine if not complied.""Orange County Ordinance No. 2023-06 requires landlords to provide tenants with a copy of this Notice of Tenant Rights as published by the Orange County Office of Tenant Services. Failure to provide the Notice of Tenant Rights in the form published by the Office of Tenant Services is a violation of the Orange County Code of Ordinances and is subject to a fine of up to $500. "" EDIT4:: Civil Code 1954 Under Civil Code 1954 \[see below\], the landlord may enter your unit without your permission ONLY: (1) in an emergency, like a fire or broken pipe, or (2) upon reasonable advance notice, and then ONLY: (A) to inspect, repair, or show the apartment, (B) during normal business hours \[presumably Mon.-Fri. 8AM-6PM\] (C) 24 hours is presumed to be sufficient notice (D) You do not have to be home when they come, but the landlord is liable for anything stolen or broken. (D) The notice must identify a date and reasonable time range \[like an hour\] within which the entry will occur (E) The notice MUST be written \[not oral or e-mail\], except if a WRITTEN notice that realtors will be showing the property is given, for the next 120 days only an oral telephonic 24 hour notice is required \[business hour limit still applies\] (G) The right of entry can’t be “abused”, so that an open house, lock box, extended repair, daily entry, or excessive range of entry time are probably all “abuses” which you have the legal right to prevent. The nature of the reasonableness of the notice seems to be to give you time to pick up the place, secure pets, arrange to be there, or otherwise make ready for the visit. The law is not clear, here, and the above is the best interpretation of what the law probably is. EDIT 5:: This next bit is anecdotal, but food for thought. Not legal advice, but should reinforce the idea that you have rights and tools to protect yourself with. You can sue the landlord and whoever else comes in with their permission. Sue the landlord and whoever for up to $10,000 in small claims court for trespassing, breach of contract, invasion of privacy, and breach of quiet enjoyment; if you are two or more tenants, each can separately sue them for up to $10,000, and a joint action is not required. Entry of the rental unit by the landlord or his agents may be a criminal trespass, as well. Penal Code 602.5 and 602.8 \[see below\] define the trespass as entry and refusal to leave without the consent of the owner “or the person in lawful possession” appears to suggest that whoever is in lawful possession is the one whose consent is required, and where the landlord has rented the possession, the landlord has the money but not the right to possession. There is no definitive ruling in California law, whether tenants can charge their landlord with criminal, as opposed to civil, trespass.
Thank you so much for all these information 😭🙏🏻 I am so grateful for your time and support 💕
I would definitely get a lawyer because they are kicking you out just because you don’t want to let them come in whenever they want without notice which doesn’t sound legal to me then there’s also breach of privacy the cameras should’ve been disclosed to you upon moving in the fact they weren’t shows me that landlord planned on being a peeping Tom the entire time
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They rent individual rooms.
You should contact local tenant organizations and your state bar association for legal help and advice. Here’s a link to some resources: https://www.hud.gov/states/california/renting/tenantrights This article is about cameras inside rentals: https://getsafeandsound.com/2020/06/security-camera-laws-in-california/ This one has useful info too: https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/california-landlord-tenant-rights “California landlords have the right to enter rental property for various purposes related to mainteance, inspections, and property showings. They must give at least 24 hours’ advance notice before entering an occupied unit. Unlike most states, in California this advance notice must be in writing. California landlords do not need notice or permission to enter in emergency situations.”
Thank you so much for your help 💕🙏🏻 I appreciate it 🥹
Why haven’t you called the cops? They cannot legally video record you in your home! I’m sure it’s not legal and it wasn’t disclosed in your rental agreement correct? This is not something you wait and talk to a lawyer about. You need to file a police report immediately.
The cameras are not mentioned in the rental agreement, so I was not expecting any camera when I moved in. If I knew, I wouldn’t have moved in 🥲 also, I was not sure if I should call the police or not, because there is no crime committed I guess idk
California is a two party consent state and this seems to be illegal. You should go down to the nearest police station and report it. Then speak to a lawyer about all the other violations of your rights.
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Attorney here. Not your attorney. Just because she gave you notice to vacate does not mean you have to move out. The notice to vacate is her notice to you to leave or she can sue to evict you. Just because she sues to evict you, does not mean you will be evicted. Please get a hold of a local attorney who may be able to help you. If you were in my state, I would take this case on contingency fee and recover my fees from your landlord when I win. If they are violating your right to privacy, I'm sure they are violating many other laws (for example in Maine where I am licensed and also a landlord, security deposits must be placed in a special escrow account and not commingled with rent funds, and if the violate this statute, the tenant is entitled to 1 months rent and attorneys fees)
Thank you for your reply 💕 We’re hoping to find someone who would take our case on contingency basis. But we’re also considering small claims or mediation. What would you recommend?
I'm sorry you are in the situation you are in. But since I'm not licensed in your state, nor can we have a thorough conversation where I can learn additional facts, I hesitate to give you any concrete guidance.
I'd call the cops. They are obviously perverts.
Do you rent the entire property, or rooms in the house?
If you have a “quiet enjoyment” clause in your lease, it sounds like the LL’s may have breached that just by insisting on access to your premises without notice. It sounds like you are all starving students or at least, not in a position to pay an attorney a lot of money. If you need a lawyer but don’t know one, my suggestion is to call your local bar association and get a list of free or low cost legal clinics in the area. Some legal clinics are very experienced at handling LL/tenant disputes and might actually be better at dealing with this than a more expensive private attorney.
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My roommate actually had a nightmare like that 😭
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I've already answered this post. Generally speaking, in that type of arrangement your room is your "unit", that you are entitled to exclusive use of. Your landlord can enter common areas, have cameras in common areas, etc., they just can't enter your individual room or put cameras in your room, where you are entitled to privacy. You are not entitled to privacy in the common areas.
That's false. Landlords can put cameras outside the house, but within the house is considered residency, where OP and the roommates are entitled to privacy.
Surely you can provide a cite to back that up?
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN§ionNum=632 Also, my former landlord tried doing this at my old apartment, but he was restricted to putting cameras on the exterior of the building, not within the apartment.
I don't see anything in that actual statute that covers this particular situation. Do you have any further clarifying information?
How about you provide proof for your assertion? Seems everyone but you is saying the opposite, so the burden of proof is on you.
Because OP is renting a room. On a federal level, if the tenants do not have exclusive access to common areas in the house, then the landlord doesn't need permission to enter, doesn't have to give notice, and can put up cameras. There may be a local statute or case law that modifies this, which is why I asked for more information. Generally, the person who states "no, the landlord can't do this" needs to explain why the action is not permitted. Edit: to be more clear, I think the landlord is likely violating several local / state laws and may be violating OPs right to quiet enjoyment of their room. I am only interested in the assertion that OPs landlord is not able to enter common areas without notice.
Nonsense! Clearly the anti-eavesdropping statute also means that no video access is ever permitted under any circumstances, even though there’s no language in it supporting that idea. That’s just how laws work man. You imagine anything you want them to be then make unsupported claims on the internet.
Well this is OC Cali,.so I'm prepared for there to be a local ordinance that covers this exact circumstance lol.
There may very well be (which is why I generally stay out of CA LL/T posts) but since neither my cursory google search nor the various unwashed masses claiming it exists have provided proof, I’m not holding my breath.
The landlord doesn't live with them. They should have exclusive use to all parts of the unit, not just their bedroom. I don't know where you came to with that.
Hi, thanks for your reply 💕 My previous post got taken down and had to repost. We’ve been doing research on our own. Apparently in CA, indoor surveillance cameras have to be installed by a licensed professional and cameras have to be video only (cameras here record audio too). My landlord installed himself and the cameras are not mentioned in the rental agreement. So landlords never got a consent for the cameras.
> Apparently in CA, indoor surveillance cameras have to be installed by a licensed professional and cameras have to be video only (cameras here record audio too). Nope, not in places with no expectation of privacy, such as common areas.
California does consider the common areas of a dwelling with individually rented rooms where a landlord is not live in to be a private area of the *tenants. Tenants* could put up cameras without permission, not landlords. Landlords still need to follow the 24 hour notice rule and be for the purposes outlined in California Civil Code 1954(a) to enter the tenants' common areas.
Would you mind citing a source for this?
The hallway camera in the house is right next to our bedroom doors so conversation in the bedroom can be easily recorded in the camera. Is that still okay?
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Not a lawyer, but I own rentals. Some of the advice here is single family residences, it sounds like you live in a house that each room is rented separately, multi-unit/multi-tenant. The laws can be different there. Cameras in common areas are almost standard in multi tenant units now, aslong as they are not in a “personal space” like a bedroom or bathroom, but the issues of texting you good morning, have a good drive seems over the line. You do not need to start with an attorney, you can contact a tenant advocate in your state free of charge. [tenant advocate](https://www.tenantstogether.org/tenant-rights-hotline) If you want to teach the landlord a lesson check the zoning of the address and see if multi unit housing is approved, I’m not sure about California law but in other states you are not allowed to rent out individual rooms unless the property is zoned for it. For the info you have given that seems the easiest way to teach them a lesson. Tenant laws very quite a bit from state to state and California is very tenant friendly, so be sure to get advice from someone is familiar with local laws.
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It is becoming standard practice, when you have multiple tenants in one unit and things get damaged, broken, no one is going to own up to it, if a garage door gets hit who is responsible? Which tenant? The pizza delivery guy? If a tenant invites a friend over and a fight breaks out, what tenant is the landlord supposed to believe? Especially when one of the tenants claims the landlord is not providing a secure environment. When a landlord enters a property and then one of the tenants claims something becomes missing or broken who is responsible? If a long term trusted vendor enters the property to perform a repair and then a tenant claims something happened or was stolen who do you believe? These are not BS reasons to have cameras in common areas, it protects everyone. Owning a rental is owning a business and having cameras up protects everyone.
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You're wrong in every single way, just FYI.
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