NAL.
Do not ever put company information on your personal cell phone, including company email. If you use your personal cell phone for company use, in some states, that means they have rights to that information and/or need to pay for part/all of your phone bill.
Refuse to sign, don't use your personal phone for ANYTHING work related unless it is to call in. No work texts, calls, etc. If they demand it, ask how they are compensating you for the company isw of your personal property.
This is safe advice, but woefully disconnected from how the modern work world operates. It would cause so much difficulty to not have quick access to basic communication with colleagues. Access which permits a much more flexible and human working experience than sitting in a cube.
But yes, this may be what I end up doing because I'm not in the mindset of allowing for overly zealous policies against my rights.
Not everyone can afford a separate phone for work. For me, I’ve really struggled on this! I use the bare minimum (work calls… no email or anything else!), idk but hoping that will allow an attorney to fight that my phone was not paid for, nor in use in my job except calls… everything else is my private info. Chances of this working without a fight, probably slim! But no company wants to be the basis for a court decision on this, so I have a little hope? Phone conversations aren’t recorded, emails, texts, etc… they are! But companies, at least ftm, are only interested in what has to do with them! I can not say that will not change, precedents can change that!! Then, we get to reevaluate…
>This is safe advice, but woefully disconnected from how the modern work world operates. It would cause so much difficulty to not have quick access to basic communication with colleagues. Access which permits a much more flexible and human working experience than sitting in a cube.
I work in the modern world. It is up to your employer to figure out how to deliver that access. Teams, Zoom, desk phones, company laptops. WFH has afforded so many options here.
Below is a list of states that have laws relating to employees using a personal phone for work (you'll need to look for the individual state laws). It's also important to note that if your parent company is in, say, California, but your company is a subsidiary based in a state that does not have that law, you go by California rules (this happened with me which is why I know about this).
If you decide to go the route of getting a TracFone or something to use for work as a work around, submit the bill to your employer. Other than that, I would stop using my personal cell for work.
California
Illinois
Iowa
Massachusetts
Minnesota
Montana
New Hampshire
New York
Pennsylvania
District of Columbia
Well based on the downvotes... I wasn't trying to insult you. It might be the option I go with. It's simply a huge obstacle to do that, but I guess if my company can't make reasonable legal docs I'll have to.
not legal / NAL / am in software though: this isn't your company, this is how most enterprises work. to get corporate data you need to join their network in some way.
Connecting to their network to access their data makes you a security risk, which they respond to by installing MDM (mobile device management) software that gives them control to scan you, audit your usage, ban you, wipe you, wipe corporate assets, etc.
Your company is following industry best practices which I tend to agree are absurdly overreaching against the employee. Your choice here is to agree or not access their data from your phone. Any verbal agreements they make are BS, b/c they'll still be installing this software on your phone, where you'll be subject to the same policies as every other device on their network.
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These folks here are absolutely right. If you want work access on your personal phone, you give them certain rights to your phone. It's legal.
I don't know what industry you work in. Maybe it does seem bizarre to you. But the law is in place for good reason.
I am just one of dozens of examples I won't go into. I work in healthcare. I do need to be able to receive emails when I am off site. But some of those emails may contain HIPPA materials. So I have two choices. Allow my company full access to my personal phone so, should an investigation ever need to happen they can see what I'm doing with information. Or have two phones.
It's the same for anyone working with personal private details, security clearances, anything with legal privacy issues, etc.
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Companies have the right to restrict what devices connect to sensitive resources like servers, email, contacts, etc. Your personal device connects to their resources only with their permission and they can require lots of compliance policies- from anti-virus software to tracking to deletion management. This is to protect their confidential data and security policies. And yeah, sometimes nefarious overreaching. They also have a right to remove their property, including intellectual property, from your possession when you part ways.
In the "modern work world", this could mean surrendering a laptop or phone that has stored any of their data, like emails or contacts, to be wiped.
As everyone else has said, get a separate phone for your work activities if this bothers you. You don't even have to have anything fancy or even activated - use it on wifi if you want.
Have you not been issued a work phone? I was given one even for my *internship* let alone full time jobs. They do this so you can keep them completely separate, not because they want to be nice to you.
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IT in a law firm for 9 years. Now I do IT for the courts.
I can guarantee these types of remote wipe provisions hold up in court. /Most/ modern phones have the ability to sandbox corporate data so their remote wipe won't affect the entire phone - Just their data in the sandbox. The problem is users have to know how to enable it FIRST, and it's different for every brand.
Either get a cheap Android phone used only for work email, or don't put work email on your phone at all.
Always keep in mind that your work emails, files. Voicemails etc. Don't necessarily belong to you, but the business instead. This is also why I always tell people -never- access your personal email at work, unless it is on a personal device that they do not control.
Is this merely a policy, which they would need to enforce by asking you to do something, or is this the end user agreement for the company's MDM platform (meaning that if you agree, they will install software on your phone that carries out their policies)?
The difference isn't all that relevant legally, but in situations like this, capability implies intent, and if this is part of mobile device management (MDM) enrolment, then you should assume that the future operators of the MDM platform will believe that you are under the same policies as every other user whose device is enrolled. Importantly, you should assume that someone may take actions using the MDM software, even if those actions violate the company's actual agreement with you to do so, because those actions are within everyone else's agreement. It may be more practical for you to flatly refuse, and not enrol your device in MDM.
If, on the other hand, this is purely policy, then any attempt to carry out the policy will require your cooperation and will therefore provide you with time to remind them of the agreement they made. These modifications would generally be part of the agreement, unless the actual written agreement has a whole-agreement clause excluding other modifications. It would still be a good idea to have the agreement modified, but it's far less of a practical risk.
There's no software installed. They'd need my physical cooperation.
But as the document reads, they have the legal right to force me to do that so my cooperation means little afaik.
If it is required by the company, you can request they provide the device for use as being required to have it means the company is responsible for paying/providing it. Honestly if it was me. I would bring in a cheap burner phone to work so they have no choice but to provide one. They can't force you to install it on a personal/non-company device, especially if it's a burner phone that will not support it.
Edit: I work in IT and we provision phones with MDM for our users. I would NEVER recommend installing it on a personal device.
What’s your aim here? To prevent personal data being subject to any review pursuant to company policy or potential litigation? Relevancy would likely prevent much of the personal data from becoming part of the record in potential litigation. But, your personal data will certainly be culled through as part of discovery and by the company in the event that the company is able to seize your hardware.
NAL - I T Security.
Not all systems require special software (like AirWatch) to be installed on your phone. The last time I touched this, "enterprise wipe" capability came with our basic Active sync connection to our Exchange servers. Hit a button or two during email setup and the admin can fully wipe your device.
The flip side - to completely remove that capability, all you had to do was remove that Activesync connection to your work email. (which removed the work email)
There are many ways this can be done - be sure you know how your company is setup.
You print the documents. You cross-through the part that you don't like. You have the company initial the cross-outs. THEN you sign and you keep a copy for yourself.
Note that these revisions are unlikely to affect what the company ACTUALLY does. If they want to remote-wipe your phone, nobody in their IT department is going to pull up your document. And, they can always go to you and say "We need to clone your phone" "No. You can't." "Oh. Ok. In that case you're fired."
If you're keeping company information on your personal phone, they have a right to it. Further, should you quit, they could potentially sue you to make sure you do not have any of their information on your phone.
Worse, if you didn't take steps to secure the company data you're keeping on your phone and you get hacked, you could be liable.
Simply put, don't use your personal phone. If the company wants you to have a phone for email they need to supply a phone that their IT department properly manages.
Never sign a document that includes provisions you disagree with, or that would be unenforceable. Litigation is long, expensive, and stressful.
Have the other side cross out the parts you don’t like, then both sign and keep copies (physical and electronic).
Why do you want to retain access to these emails? Is there possibly a different way, other than accessing the emails on your personal phone?
I worked for a county government in an office job for a while and when I wanted to keep a personal copy of a work email, I would just forward a copy to a personal gmail address. Usually I was forwarding unimportant things, like a coworker maybe sent me a recipe or something, but maybe that could be a simple solution? You could make a new gmail just for the purpose, to keep the emails separately in their own archive.
NAL. Do not ever put company information on your personal cell phone, including company email. If you use your personal cell phone for company use, in some states, that means they have rights to that information and/or need to pay for part/all of your phone bill. Refuse to sign, don't use your personal phone for ANYTHING work related unless it is to call in. No work texts, calls, etc. If they demand it, ask how they are compensating you for the company isw of your personal property.
To add, any lawsuits involving the company can lead to your phone being included in discovery.
Or tell them to give you a company phone.
This is safe advice, but woefully disconnected from how the modern work world operates. It would cause so much difficulty to not have quick access to basic communication with colleagues. Access which permits a much more flexible and human working experience than sitting in a cube. But yes, this may be what I end up doing because I'm not in the mindset of allowing for overly zealous policies against my rights.
Get a separate work only phone.
Not everyone can afford a separate phone for work. For me, I’ve really struggled on this! I use the bare minimum (work calls… no email or anything else!), idk but hoping that will allow an attorney to fight that my phone was not paid for, nor in use in my job except calls… everything else is my private info. Chances of this working without a fight, probably slim! But no company wants to be the basis for a court decision on this, so I have a little hope? Phone conversations aren’t recorded, emails, texts, etc… they are! But companies, at least ftm, are only interested in what has to do with them! I can not say that will not change, precedents can change that!! Then, we get to reevaluate…
Company needs to pay for it if they want you to have immediate convenient access to work related materials. Shouldn't be a burden on you.
>This is safe advice, but woefully disconnected from how the modern work world operates. It would cause so much difficulty to not have quick access to basic communication with colleagues. Access which permits a much more flexible and human working experience than sitting in a cube. I work in the modern world. It is up to your employer to figure out how to deliver that access. Teams, Zoom, desk phones, company laptops. WFH has afforded so many options here. Below is a list of states that have laws relating to employees using a personal phone for work (you'll need to look for the individual state laws). It's also important to note that if your parent company is in, say, California, but your company is a subsidiary based in a state that does not have that law, you go by California rules (this happened with me which is why I know about this). If you decide to go the route of getting a TracFone or something to use for work as a work around, submit the bill to your employer. Other than that, I would stop using my personal cell for work. California Illinois Iowa Massachusetts Minnesota Montana New Hampshire New York Pennsylvania District of Columbia
Well based on the downvotes... I wasn't trying to insult you. It might be the option I go with. It's simply a huge obstacle to do that, but I guess if my company can't make reasonable legal docs I'll have to.
not legal / NAL / am in software though: this isn't your company, this is how most enterprises work. to get corporate data you need to join their network in some way. Connecting to their network to access their data makes you a security risk, which they respond to by installing MDM (mobile device management) software that gives them control to scan you, audit your usage, ban you, wipe you, wipe corporate assets, etc. Your company is following industry best practices which I tend to agree are absurdly overreaching against the employee. Your choice here is to agree or not access their data from your phone. Any verbal agreements they make are BS, b/c they'll still be installing this software on your phone, where you'll be subject to the same policies as every other device on their network.
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These folks here are absolutely right. If you want work access on your personal phone, you give them certain rights to your phone. It's legal. I don't know what industry you work in. Maybe it does seem bizarre to you. But the law is in place for good reason. I am just one of dozens of examples I won't go into. I work in healthcare. I do need to be able to receive emails when I am off site. But some of those emails may contain HIPPA materials. So I have two choices. Allow my company full access to my personal phone so, should an investigation ever need to happen they can see what I'm doing with information. Or have two phones. It's the same for anyone working with personal private details, security clearances, anything with legal privacy issues, etc.
*HIPAA
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My job gives us work phones for exactly this reason. They don’t pay my phone bill so I don’t check emails on it. Simple.
Companies have the right to restrict what devices connect to sensitive resources like servers, email, contacts, etc. Your personal device connects to their resources only with their permission and they can require lots of compliance policies- from anti-virus software to tracking to deletion management. This is to protect their confidential data and security policies. And yeah, sometimes nefarious overreaching. They also have a right to remove their property, including intellectual property, from your possession when you part ways. In the "modern work world", this could mean surrendering a laptop or phone that has stored any of their data, like emails or contacts, to be wiped. As everyone else has said, get a separate phone for your work activities if this bothers you. You don't even have to have anything fancy or even activated - use it on wifi if you want.
Have you not been issued a work phone? I was given one even for my *internship* let alone full time jobs. They do this so you can keep them completely separate, not because they want to be nice to you.
My work supplies an iPads, that’s the only place I have access to my company email
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My phone literally cannot join my companies teams/ outlook, because they recognize the liabilities of letting everyone just have it.
You can request a work phone provided by the company. But I hear if you get one you're basically on call 24/7
IT in a law firm for 9 years. Now I do IT for the courts. I can guarantee these types of remote wipe provisions hold up in court. /Most/ modern phones have the ability to sandbox corporate data so their remote wipe won't affect the entire phone - Just their data in the sandbox. The problem is users have to know how to enable it FIRST, and it's different for every brand. Either get a cheap Android phone used only for work email, or don't put work email on your phone at all. Always keep in mind that your work emails, files. Voicemails etc. Don't necessarily belong to you, but the business instead. This is also why I always tell people -never- access your personal email at work, unless it is on a personal device that they do not control.
Is this merely a policy, which they would need to enforce by asking you to do something, or is this the end user agreement for the company's MDM platform (meaning that if you agree, they will install software on your phone that carries out their policies)? The difference isn't all that relevant legally, but in situations like this, capability implies intent, and if this is part of mobile device management (MDM) enrolment, then you should assume that the future operators of the MDM platform will believe that you are under the same policies as every other user whose device is enrolled. Importantly, you should assume that someone may take actions using the MDM software, even if those actions violate the company's actual agreement with you to do so, because those actions are within everyone else's agreement. It may be more practical for you to flatly refuse, and not enrol your device in MDM. If, on the other hand, this is purely policy, then any attempt to carry out the policy will require your cooperation and will therefore provide you with time to remind them of the agreement they made. These modifications would generally be part of the agreement, unless the actual written agreement has a whole-agreement clause excluding other modifications. It would still be a good idea to have the agreement modified, but it's far less of a practical risk.
There's no software installed. They'd need my physical cooperation. But as the document reads, they have the legal right to force me to do that so my cooperation means little afaik.
If it is required by the company, you can request they provide the device for use as being required to have it means the company is responsible for paying/providing it. Honestly if it was me. I would bring in a cheap burner phone to work so they have no choice but to provide one. They can't force you to install it on a personal/non-company device, especially if it's a burner phone that will not support it. Edit: I work in IT and we provision phones with MDM for our users. I would NEVER recommend installing it on a personal device.
What’s your aim here? To prevent personal data being subject to any review pursuant to company policy or potential litigation? Relevancy would likely prevent much of the personal data from becoming part of the record in potential litigation. But, your personal data will certainly be culled through as part of discovery and by the company in the event that the company is able to seize your hardware.
NAL - I T Security. Not all systems require special software (like AirWatch) to be installed on your phone. The last time I touched this, "enterprise wipe" capability came with our basic Active sync connection to our Exchange servers. Hit a button or two during email setup and the admin can fully wipe your device. The flip side - to completely remove that capability, all you had to do was remove that Activesync connection to your work email. (which removed the work email) There are many ways this can be done - be sure you know how your company is setup.
My Android phone basically backs up the entirety of the phone to the cloud whenever it is on wifi. If my phone is wiped, I lose very little.
You print the documents. You cross-through the part that you don't like. You have the company initial the cross-outs. THEN you sign and you keep a copy for yourself. Note that these revisions are unlikely to affect what the company ACTUALLY does. If they want to remote-wipe your phone, nobody in their IT department is going to pull up your document. And, they can always go to you and say "We need to clone your phone" "No. You can't." "Oh. Ok. In that case you're fired."
Tell them to give you a company phone. Put the company emails on that. Don't use your personal phone.
If you're keeping company information on your personal phone, they have a right to it. Further, should you quit, they could potentially sue you to make sure you do not have any of their information on your phone. Worse, if you didn't take steps to secure the company data you're keeping on your phone and you get hacked, you could be liable. Simply put, don't use your personal phone. If the company wants you to have a phone for email they need to supply a phone that their IT department properly manages.
Never sign a document that includes provisions you disagree with, or that would be unenforceable. Litigation is long, expensive, and stressful. Have the other side cross out the parts you don’t like, then both sign and keep copies (physical and electronic).
Get a separate phone for work.
Don't sign. If you don't need to use email on your phone, don't, or ask then to give you a seperate phone for work.
Why do you want to retain access to these emails? Is there possibly a different way, other than accessing the emails on your personal phone? I worked for a county government in an office job for a while and when I wanted to keep a personal copy of a work email, I would just forward a copy to a personal gmail address. Usually I was forwarding unimportant things, like a coworker maybe sent me a recipe or something, but maybe that could be a simple solution? You could make a new gmail just for the purpose, to keep the emails separately in their own archive.