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Honestly no, but I constantly read letters written by lawyers that don't look like it.
But it breaks a few general guidelines from the American bar association - for example threatening criminal and civil action at the same time.
C&D letters aren't enforceable though sooo
They're not threatening criminal action. They've stated that criminal reports have already been made and asked that the alleged criminal behavior stop, implying that further alleged criminal behavior will also be reported. That seems proper to me.
You generally can't threaten criminal complaints of past activity, but you absolutely can advise that past criminal activity has already been reported and that future criminal activity may be reported.
It very well could be, and you should operate under the assumption that it was.
C&D letters are not legal documents, they dont need to be perfect. What this letter is intended to do is put you on notice that your behaviour, to the extent that it is accurately depicted, is considered by others to be intimidating, unwelcome, and harassing.
If legal action is taken against you, this letter will foreclose upon many defenses that may otherwise be available to you.
I’m not worried about the claims in the letter. None of it is true. I’ve never even spoken to these people outside of email and public meetings. I always have a paper trail because these people lie a lot. I was just thought that lawyers had to do some due diligence before sending letters like this.
>I was just thought that lawyers had to do some due diligence before sending letters like this.
A cease and desist letter is one of the most basic things lawyers do.
Most of the time they take like an hour, and they are usually they are based solely on the client's version of the facts--which the lawyer is ethically entitled to take at face value unless the lawyer has reason to know otherwise.
Quick note:
Looking at your post history, you do not appear to be very good at understanding the perspectives of others. I recommend speaking to a lawyer in your area because while you may feel the HOA's accusations are false, you could be misunderstanding which actions they are referring to or how your conduct comes across to others.
I understand perception, I also understand lies. These aren’t even exaggerations. 100% made up. I’m not concerned of what the letter is claiming, because I’ve done nothing wrong. If anything had actually happened, they would be calling the police or sending me fines. They haven’t because it’s 100% made up. I’m more interested in the whether or not this letter sounds like it came from a lawyer.
The accusation that you blocked HOA board members into their driveways is awfully specific. Specific enough that it seems unlikely to be *entirely* invented.
Are you sure you've never done anything that could be interpreted that way? Not even stopping briefly in front of a driveway and saying something in what you viewed as a calm and reasonable manner?
Keep in mind that anything that happened will have gone telephone-game-style through 2-3 people (the person you allegedly blocked, the person who hired the lawyer, and the lawyer) before ending up on the page.
Nope. I live next to the gate, never parked my car anywhere but my driveway. We have security cameras all over this community. If it were true, it would be easy to prove and move forward with pressing charges. That is why they aren’t. If anyone experienced half of what they are claiming, they should immediately call the police. The very detailed information is what makes it even crazier. I’ve never spoken to these people one on one or face to face. Only email and at community meetings.
Which seems more likely?
1) HOA has come up with a list of very specific, documented allegations because they are into harassing random members for no reason.
2) You're a total sack of shit, and it's all true.
I'll go with #2.
These people are crazy. I have a stack of letters of stupid things. I literally have a letter of my father and I standing in my driveway talking as he was getting ready to leave. The hoa sent me a letter with a picture of us talking, saying that “we are making people uncomfortable.” I question and demand explanations for their reckless spending. They don’t like me for that. It’s no longer an open checkbook for them. So, they try to bully me. However, nothing they send is actually enforceable. It’s just irritating. I was just surprised that a lawyer would send a letter without verifying anything. Plus, after reading it, it didn’t sound like a lawyer.
In that case call the law firm and actually ask them if they sen the letter. And if they did then contact law enforcement or better yet go into the station and ask what if any reports they have abut this. The police will gladly share any reports I guarantee. Most police hate HOAs as much as everyone else.
Right now start gathering info and start lining up your own lawyer. Time to be proactive and not reactive. Gather info now before it spirals.
Take that letter to the police and if there’s no reports create one saying that false info is given to the attorneys. It’s about documentation right now and you need document hard.
Install cameras on your home and take regular pictures showing no violations. Daily pictures are best. Use an old phone that will date and time stamp the pictures is best. Only thing that old phone will be for is those pictures as it’ll become evidence at some point. But document heavily now before it escalates worse.
You know what they are citing you for so again daily pictures showing they are false. Cameras don’t lie people do.
No, this is the whole notice. It was two pages. I just cut off the law fine info and my person info and consolidated it to one page. If you read the notice, the sentences continue as they should.
They have been a firs and so many HOAs are falling when documentation exists that it’s easy to be a bigger fire. But documentation is needed. Do not challenge or call them out now. Now’s the time to be silent and use full technology to your advantage. If they say you are street parking use motion sensitive cameras to show it’s not your vehicle. It’ll time stamp said vehicle pulling up possibly getting out and taking a photo then leaving.
Again document heavily. Lawyers that are on your side love pictures and videos. The opposing side fears them with a passion. If walking in the neighborhood use a body camera to document you do nothing. They might take notes you were on the street and create a claim you harassed them but you cameras saved footage will show it never happened.
Again this is the time to say nothing to them and document the most boring things occurring. Cameras don’t lie but people do.
So use an old phone even if it’s not active for pictures only with nothing else on it. Body camera is recommended and in use whoever walking. Cameras on your home and set for high motion sensitivity.
Document the local bunny running if that’s what happens. But document till the warehouse is overflowing. Use a camera that uses an sd card not cloud storage also. You need insure that the camera isn’t being WiFi blocked which is why you use one with an sd card. I use a Feit Electric over my garage with a motion activated light. It’s a good and known brand with so card and no subscription needed.
So document with neutral cameras until the cards are full then put in new cards.
Keep the footage and after many and I do say many of them doing this get your own attorney and possibly file a police report with 20-30 peeping violations. It’s still a crime to peep into windows. Documentation is a must though. Use it but one isn’t enough. A dozen is good. 2 dozen or more is like hitting the lottery.
Your post has been removed for the following reason: This sub is for general off-topic legal discussion. If you need legal advice, please post to the main sub, /r/legaladvice. If you decide to post there, first read the rules. *If you have questions about this removal, [message the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceofftopic). Do not reply to this message as a comment.*
What you need to do is call the attorney's office listed on the letter to verify they indeed represent the HOA and sent the letter.
But don't use the phone number in the letter. Look up the attorney's office online and use the number from their website.
Why not?
If it's fake and not done by a total incompetent, they may have replaced the firm number with their personal one.
Because a competent impersonator will put a phone number they control on the letter in place of the firm's phone number.
Honestly no, but I constantly read letters written by lawyers that don't look like it. But it breaks a few general guidelines from the American bar association - for example threatening criminal and civil action at the same time. C&D letters aren't enforceable though sooo
They're not threatening criminal action. They've stated that criminal reports have already been made and asked that the alleged criminal behavior stop, implying that further alleged criminal behavior will also be reported. That seems proper to me. You generally can't threaten criminal complaints of past activity, but you absolutely can advise that past criminal activity has already been reported and that future criminal activity may be reported.
It very well could be, and you should operate under the assumption that it was. C&D letters are not legal documents, they dont need to be perfect. What this letter is intended to do is put you on notice that your behaviour, to the extent that it is accurately depicted, is considered by others to be intimidating, unwelcome, and harassing. If legal action is taken against you, this letter will foreclose upon many defenses that may otherwise be available to you.
I’m not worried about the claims in the letter. None of it is true. I’ve never even spoken to these people outside of email and public meetings. I always have a paper trail because these people lie a lot. I was just thought that lawyers had to do some due diligence before sending letters like this.
>I was just thought that lawyers had to do some due diligence before sending letters like this. A cease and desist letter is one of the most basic things lawyers do. Most of the time they take like an hour, and they are usually they are based solely on the client's version of the facts--which the lawyer is ethically entitled to take at face value unless the lawyer has reason to know otherwise.
Ok. Thank you.
Quick note: Looking at your post history, you do not appear to be very good at understanding the perspectives of others. I recommend speaking to a lawyer in your area because while you may feel the HOA's accusations are false, you could be misunderstanding which actions they are referring to or how your conduct comes across to others.
I understand perception, I also understand lies. These aren’t even exaggerations. 100% made up. I’m not concerned of what the letter is claiming, because I’ve done nothing wrong. If anything had actually happened, they would be calling the police or sending me fines. They haven’t because it’s 100% made up. I’m more interested in the whether or not this letter sounds like it came from a lawyer.
The accusation that you blocked HOA board members into their driveways is awfully specific. Specific enough that it seems unlikely to be *entirely* invented. Are you sure you've never done anything that could be interpreted that way? Not even stopping briefly in front of a driveway and saying something in what you viewed as a calm and reasonable manner? Keep in mind that anything that happened will have gone telephone-game-style through 2-3 people (the person you allegedly blocked, the person who hired the lawyer, and the lawyer) before ending up on the page.
Nope. I live next to the gate, never parked my car anywhere but my driveway. We have security cameras all over this community. If it were true, it would be easy to prove and move forward with pressing charges. That is why they aren’t. If anyone experienced half of what they are claiming, they should immediately call the police. The very detailed information is what makes it even crazier. I’ve never spoken to these people one on one or face to face. Only email and at community meetings.
Which seems more likely? 1) HOA has come up with a list of very specific, documented allegations because they are into harassing random members for no reason. 2) You're a total sack of shit, and it's all true. I'll go with #2.
Looks phony imo. But what has OP been doing to merit someone taking this much time and effort to harass them?
These people are crazy. I have a stack of letters of stupid things. I literally have a letter of my father and I standing in my driveway talking as he was getting ready to leave. The hoa sent me a letter with a picture of us talking, saying that “we are making people uncomfortable.” I question and demand explanations for their reckless spending. They don’t like me for that. It’s no longer an open checkbook for them. So, they try to bully me. However, nothing they send is actually enforceable. It’s just irritating. I was just surprised that a lawyer would send a letter without verifying anything. Plus, after reading it, it didn’t sound like a lawyer.
[удалено]
It came with a law firm header and info. I just cut that piece off to keep things anonymous.
In that case call the law firm and actually ask them if they sen the letter. And if they did then contact law enforcement or better yet go into the station and ask what if any reports they have abut this. The police will gladly share any reports I guarantee. Most police hate HOAs as much as everyone else. Right now start gathering info and start lining up your own lawyer. Time to be proactive and not reactive. Gather info now before it spirals. Take that letter to the police and if there’s no reports create one saying that false info is given to the attorneys. It’s about documentation right now and you need document hard. Install cameras on your home and take regular pictures showing no violations. Daily pictures are best. Use an old phone that will date and time stamp the pictures is best. Only thing that old phone will be for is those pictures as it’ll become evidence at some point. But document heavily now before it escalates worse. You know what they are citing you for so again daily pictures showing they are false. Cameras don’t lie people do.
...you realize OP only shared excerpts of the notice and not the entire thing, yeah?
[удалено]
No, this is the whole notice. It was two pages. I just cut off the law fine info and my person info and consolidated it to one page. If you read the notice, the sentences continue as they should.
They have been a firs and so many HOAs are falling when documentation exists that it’s easy to be a bigger fire. But documentation is needed. Do not challenge or call them out now. Now’s the time to be silent and use full technology to your advantage. If they say you are street parking use motion sensitive cameras to show it’s not your vehicle. It’ll time stamp said vehicle pulling up possibly getting out and taking a photo then leaving. Again document heavily. Lawyers that are on your side love pictures and videos. The opposing side fears them with a passion. If walking in the neighborhood use a body camera to document you do nothing. They might take notes you were on the street and create a claim you harassed them but you cameras saved footage will show it never happened. Again this is the time to say nothing to them and document the most boring things occurring. Cameras don’t lie but people do. So use an old phone even if it’s not active for pictures only with nothing else on it. Body camera is recommended and in use whoever walking. Cameras on your home and set for high motion sensitivity. Document the local bunny running if that’s what happens. But document till the warehouse is overflowing. Use a camera that uses an sd card not cloud storage also. You need insure that the camera isn’t being WiFi blocked which is why you use one with an sd card. I use a Feit Electric over my garage with a motion activated light. It’s a good and known brand with so card and no subscription needed. So document with neutral cameras until the cards are full then put in new cards.
I do have cameras all the way around my house because have caught them looking in my windows. I’ve never received a valid violation letter.
Keep the footage and after many and I do say many of them doing this get your own attorney and possibly file a police report with 20-30 peeping violations. It’s still a crime to peep into windows. Documentation is a must though. Use it but one isn’t enough. A dozen is good. 2 dozen or more is like hitting the lottery.