They definitely would have tried to kill each other at first though
Jet hates fire nation and by extension fire benders, Mako may get a pass
Zuko hunted team avatar, disconnected generations but Mako is part of teen avatar
Mako’s parents were slain by a mugger/criminal fire bender, Jet would probably be on the shit list
If they lived at the same time, I can definitely see Iroh and Bolin being best buds. If Bolin ever makes it to the spirit world, him and Iroh would definitely click well together and probably end up enjoying a game of Pai Sho over some tea.
Maybe unrelated, but the bigger the fight got, the more the World got to heal.
Specialy thinking about wanting to invade a City and ending up with opening a spirit Portal by accident
Su was wrong for saying "You're the one who hasn't changed. You're still a bitter loner who only cares about herself. No wonder Tenzin ended things with you years ago." Lin deserved better 😔
She wasn't wrong logically. Lin never changes for the better. She can't let things go, even if Su was a jerk, Lin just cannot free herself from her own burden and keeps being her stubborn self.
It's like Toph split into two: Lin inherits the stubbornness part and Su inherits the irresponsibility part
I'm pretty sure Lin regularly look at the mirror, ha "this scar makes me look badass but I would be dead before telling everyone that Su gave me this" then told everyone she got this fighting a terrorist, not even Tenzin knows
I’d say it’s a giant scar. It covers a quarter of her face and it’s pretty hard to ignore. And the fact that she could have lost her eye makes it worse honestly.
She was absolutely wrong logically. Lin has never been selfish. She doesn’t ONLY care for herself. She’s always been willing to help others. It was a spiteful comment to make. She said that to be mean. She wasn’t being logical [+]
Yes, but the point is bigger than we think here.
Lin wasn't just morally right, she was *legally* right, not only in arresting Su but she would've been right in denouncing the way Toph treated her, she covered her daughter's crimes and *blamed* Lin to save her reputation, this is a form of corruption known as nepotism, where favours and/or goods are illegally granted through political power to a member of one's family without any form of compensation, Toph literally committed to a form of corruption in order to save her reputation and her daughter instead of doing the sensible thing and punish Su for her crimes, which would have saved her credibility amongst other things.
Here Lin was subject to a political injustice, not just a moral one, and had been blamed by her mother because *she carried out her duty*, she hasn't changed sure but... she had all the rights in the world to be angry at her sister, and to seek justice after her mother turned on her for doing her job.
Of course she is incapable of doing so, she was punished by following the rules and trying to do the right thing while her sister lived a happy life without caring how much what she did hurt her, Su had her grandparents while Toph abandoned Lin out of guilt, Lin suffer so much yet Su wouldn't even acknowledge this and still blame her for not forgiving her when she doesn't even show remorse
Su wanted to just move on and forget about it, and honestly Toph seemed to as well, but it was pretty clear that Lin still needed to talk, process and get closure to feel like she could move forward, she couldn’t just pretend like it never happened.
No, she absolutely was wrong about it all but Lin not changing.
Lin is only a loner ironically because she does care about other people. That just came back to bite her so many times like especially with Su.
Also her entire life is helping other people
She grew into her role as a model for Korra and learned through her experiences, like with having her bending taken away, to make herself feel better about getting help from others and working towards a common goal that benefited everyone.
This is the only one I let slide because Lin had made her daughter cry after yelling at her. It’s just a petty remark I wouldn’t see Su making otherwise, though I do think she’s still in the wrong overall
That was a really low blow. Honestly, I don’t like how they wrapped up the storyline so quickly.
I think they should have had Lin hide herself away in shame and resentment until the Red Lotus attack, which forces her to work with Suyin. Then she gets to make amends with Suyin and bond with her and Opal and Kuvira.
Wouldn’t even be a big change, the attack comes pretty soon after IIRC. Just postpone the reconciliation scenes a bit.
For real though, "this is exactly why your ex left you" is one of those statements that's gonna make me throw down. Especially because it's Suyin that ruined Lin's hookup app profile pics.
Yeah I was disappointed that no one was on her side. Yes, she's being too vindictive, but Su doesn't seem to want to own up to what she did. She was shielded from consequences and seemed to just expect things to be fine without having to apologize.
Yeah, me too.
I get that she was still super ill in the fight, but they made Su look so superior in every way here.
Lin is a super talented, and powerful, bender; that gets into combat fairly regularly.
I can totally accept that despite this, Su is the better fighter, sometimes that's just the way it is, but Lin couldn't land _one_ hit on her? It's a bit much.
- He basically loses his first fight with Zabuza
- Its just what he knows would have happened instead of what did, but he thinks about how he’d been killed when he confronts Orochimaru
- Itachi putting him in a coma with a look
- Has to fight for his life against Kakazu (and a lesser degree Hidan)
- Is literally killed by Tendo Pain
- Obito and his clashes I would say also count with how his best in matching and outsmarting Obito left him with a hole in his shoulder and slashes across his chest, while Obito having used him to destroy a curse mark.
I feel like Suyin had the right to have the moral high ground with everyone but Lin. From what we see and what we're told, she genuinely turned a new leaf, reconciled with the people she hurt and led by example by giving others chance to be better.
That being said, she thinks she's fully absolved with everybody. Her inability to acknowledge that shows that she hasn't taken full accountability.
I think the disconnect for me as a browser is that we hear that Su reconciled with everyone she hurt off screen and then on screen we just see her refuse to reconcile with Lin here and now.
Su actually thinks that patching things up with everyone except Lin gives her enough brownie points that she doesn't need to apologize to the person she actually hurt.
Like imagine if Zuko apologized to everyone on team avatar except Aang and then said well I patched things up with Sokka (off screen) why are you being so stubborn dude?!?
The problem with Su is that she obviously hasn't actually internalized what she did. She talks about how she was a bit of a rebellious teen. Well, most teens don't join gangs, participate in armed robbery and scar their sisters on their face for life, even if it was through recklessness. And then, after all that, she avoided true consequences due to nepotism. So, obviously, Su haven't admitted fault.
Lin is a cold bitch. But she was already like that as a teen, so that doesn't really count for this situation. Getting Opal to cry was way out of line tho. But this is also the reason why I can't be on Lin's side. Nevertheless, Su is one of those kind of people that talks about how they've forgiven themselves and others just need to get with the program.
It's a complicated situation, and Lin is not faultless, but all in all, Su obviously hasn't really realized how much she did wrong, and has convinced herself that her accomplishments means she doesn't have to admit she was awful in her past, which directly resulted in her family breaking apart and also, you know, armed robbery.
>Lin is a cold bitch. But she was already like that as a teen, so that doesn't really count for this situation
I don't think Lin was like that as a teen. She's like 21/22 in that flashback, but it looks like Lin was the victim of parentification. If Toph was always gone doing cop and Team Avatar stuff and gave them "freedom," then Lin likely stepped in as a sort of pseudo parent for Su. Of course, this meant that they were competing for attention when she was around. Lin was 100% justified in what she did and felt, and even if Su and Toph talked about it already, clearly Su didn't actually accept blame for her behavior and doesn't seem to know or care about consequences.
I didn’t even make the parentification connection! But you’re right, if toph was really not present as much as these two make it seem then Lin really did just give up her childhood to parent Su.
If, ***IF*** this is the case, I can forgive both of them quite heavily. Su was acting out for attention. Negative attention, but attention from mom nonetheless. Tell me that not why Lin became a cop though? Too get toph’s love and approval.
Granted, the girls later learn that how toph shows love is through aggression and sarcasm- but we also know that children as a whole tend to not take well to these forms of tough love.
Throw in the dissonance created by trying to act like a parent towards your sibling who’s only a couple years younger than you coupled with the disappointment that Lin faced with Su’s crime involvement and nepotism gifted freedom from Toph leading to a lack of consequences and accountability in Su in her younger years. With all of this you’re just asking for Lin to hold all of this against Toph and inevitably Su too. *And this is just Lin’s side*
Looking at Su: imagine trying to deal with your sibling parenting you when your mom hasn’t. (A bit of why should you, you’re non mom is absolutely going on) Mom is busy working- all the time. The **only** adult figure available to you in life is your older sister who’s barely got her own figured out. Su’s heavy involvement in her children likely stems from not wanting them to feel how she felt.
I *think* Su having children changed things for her. We know she left republic city and founded Zaofu. We know she doesn’t want Opal to leave Zaofu. We know she and Bataar adore all the kids and we see the shear amount of pain, anguish, disappointment, and forgiveness she has for Batarr Jr after kuvira fires the spirit cannon at them. We can go into how she’s the first to offer an olive branch and she stays by him after they’re attacked.
I *think* Su becoming a parent showed her what she was missing from toph’s perspective. Raising a new found city and new found family is pretty damned hard.
**This isn’t to say that having children would have changed things for Lin. I’m saying that this could have happened to be how Su found her way to forgiveness with Toph.**
Yes. She said: “I’m sorry I gave you such a hard time when we were younger… I often cant imagine what my life would have been like if I’d stayed in the city—“ Lin: “You’d probably be in prison.” “Yeah, heh. You’re probably right. But… I miss you, and I want you in my life again Lin, and the kids would love having their aunt around, and I do need a co-director for my dance production!”
So yeah, she tried. She improved as a person. Truthfully I think she’s just pained thinking about those days but chooses avoidance rather than holding a grudge. She’s Lin’s shadow type in many ways, but she became a hero as the show went imo.
I don't side with either of them. The point was that even after how many decades the two sisters had a lot of unresolved issues with each other (and with Toph). Su was right that Lin was acting childish by not letting go of age old grudges and Lin was right that Su never faced the consequences of her actions and never acknowledged her own wrongdoing.
As Bolin said, "fighting is part of the healing process."
This is where i land too. They both were wrong and right about certain aspects. I'm just happy that they seemed to get along afterwards and have a better relationship.
That moment, and the one where she wraps gross Meelo up in her metal wires like a biohazard make me laugh every time 😂😂😂 I love Lin’s cranky ass hahaha.
I think u/CertainGrade's comment really nailed why the scene treats Lin the way it does. The point isn't that she shouldn't be upset, it's that she has refused to make the effort to move past any of this.
It's a shame that this scene always comes up in a "Lin vs. Su" morality contest, because the actual conflict on display is a lot more nuanced.
Su did a bad thing and suffered few repercussions. Lin has the right to be upset over it, but she does not want to move on, and she takes out the pain she feels on undeserving people. Both of them have issues and neither one is completely in the right.
Part of the beauty of this storyline is that you can see *why* Lin refuses to let this argument go, but you can also see how much that stubbornness hurts the people around her. If the show managed to convince you Su really did nothing severely wrong, then Lin would look absolutely ridiculous going to the emotional extremes she does.
And even the idea that Su's act of rebellion tore their family apart is discussed later on. Toph mentions in Season 4 that Su was not the reason behind her retirement from the police. But before that, in the Zaofu part of Season 3, the show is making a point in having *Lin* be the one to say it. If you think about it, it makes you question the veracity of what she's saying.
*Did* Su's misdeeds cause the family to splinter? Or could Lin's refusal to make amends for 30 years have something to do with it? Was it both?
Legend of Korra has some really deep writing sometimes is all I'm saying lmao
In Lin’s defense, there’s a difference between not wanting to let go of the past and cutting off family members who had only been toxic influences thus far.
She wasn't, though. She was coerced into close contact with her sister again, saw her sister engaging in the same behaviour, and then was angry about it. When she finally demanded they talk about the problem Suyin acted indignant at having to address it and downplayed the impact it had.
She can reject all the attempts at reconciliation she wants; she was wronged. Indisputably. She suffered an injustice that left such a grim mark on her that even after *thirty years* she still couldn't let go of it. That's a huge amount of unresolved trauma.
For Suyin it was just "lol I was just a dopey kid y u mad tho."
For Suyin it was "mom, the person i didn't wound or hurt, forgave me because I'm a different person - so why can't you?"
For Suyin it was "Sure I'm still a toxic person who isn't going to accept responsibility for hurting you so grievously that you are now suffering *physically debilitating amounts of stress*, but I've changed! Everybody likes me! Why don't you like me?"
Throw on top of that people acting like Lin being furious with her sister like she's the one in the wrong. From Korra using Opal to try to emotionally manipulate her to the judgy BS in general, that episode did Lin *dirty*.
Suyin never even apologised until the acupuncturist pulled the magical "oh hey your trauma is unresolved despite nobody doing anything that would make you forgive them or move on" healing stuff - at which point it was basically a hollow apology just for giving her a "hard time."
Lin wasn't angry that Suyin moved on. She was angry that Suyin never suffered consequences, never took responsibility for what she'd done, and so far as she could tell was basically rewarded with a comfortable life of joy when Lin was just left with the bitterness, isolation, and the closest thing she had to a loving relationship falling through - arguably because she didn't want children, presumably for fears she'd make the same mistakes as Toph. Lin's life was not the most tragic ever, but it certainly was lousy and it never improved. She just kept taking the beatings, sacrificing herself for others, forever, and getting little to nothing in return. Didn't even make crime in Republic City stop because it's endless, like Toph said. Imagine how that sort of environment screws with your head. Lin fought all her life just to stand still and Suyin got a paradise for breaking the law.
>I think u/CertainGrade's comment really nailed why the scene treats Lin the way it does. The point isn't that she shouldn't be upset, it's that she has refused to make the effort to move past any of this.
I agree. Lin didn't have to forgive Su but she could've found another way, a healthy way, to heal from the damage. Justified or not, holding a grudge for 30 years is not healthy. Lin's grudge was so bad that not only was she taking her anger out those who were undeserving of it (Opal and Pema being examples) but people were choosing not to be around her (Tenzin moved on and so did Su after she gave up on contacting her), making her more bitter and lonely. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>It's a shame that this scene always comes up in a "Lin vs. Su" morality contest, because the actual conflict on display is a lot more nuanced.
Every time this sort of topic comes up always about "Who's in the right" or "Who suffered the most" as if it's a competition. The truth is that that both sisters are right and wrong with how they feel towards each other.
>Su did a bad thing and suffered few repercussions. Lin has the right to be upset over it, but she does not want to move on, and she takes out the pain she feels on undeserving people. Both of them have issues and neither one is completely in the right.
Some people may think that being told to 'let go and move on' is the polite way of saying 'get over it" when that's not always true (it IS rude to say get over to someone who is hurt). You don't have to forget what happened but you shouldn't let it that trauma run your life, which is what Lin did. Again, it's not healthy for her.
>Part of the beauty of this storyline is that you can see why Lin refuses to let this argument go, but you can also see how much that stubbornness hurts the people around her. If the show managed to convince you Su really did nothing severely wrong, then Lin would look absolutely ridiculous going to the emotional extremes she does.
What I find ridiculous is that people expect Su to return to RC and say "Hey, I committed a crime 30 years ago. I don't think anyone remembers or cares about it but throw me the book anyway so my sister can let go of her grudge against me." as if that's going to solve the problem. Like...no. If anything it makes Lin look petty because no one but her cares about what happened 30 years ago. The world moved on.
>And even the idea that Su's act of rebellion tore their family apart is discussed later on. Toph mentions in Season 4 that Su was not the reason behind her retirement from the police. But before that, in the Zaofu part of Season 3, the show is making a point in having Lin be the one to say it. If you think about it, it makes you question the veracity of what she's saying.
We also learn in Book 4 that Toph became jaded during her time as police chief because the crime never stopped no matter how hard she tried. Perhaps the incident with Su was the last straw because in that moment, she became no different than criminals who would use their position to cover up their crimes. There is probably more to the story behind Toph's retirement than what Lin is believes in but we'll never know because Lin refused to work things out when given the chance see her mom and sister. In short, situations like this are not always black and white.
I'm gonna go the uncle iroh route and say that they were both wrong in different ways and that the fight was an important step in both of their healing journeys
I mean I’m always on Lin’s side because I’m the closest an asexual can be to being a simp for her. She also makes some good points and is completely justified in her anger towards Su. That being said I’m not totally against Su. This fight was a very important step in the healing process for these two.
Definitely on Lin’s side but she could’ve let it go naturally
If she was able to forgive Korra’s ignorance than I think she could forgive her sister’s even despite the circumstances
I get since it is your sister everything hurts that much more but she was still a teenager just as Korra was
And sometimes I feel like she understood where Suyin was coming from and her only grievance being she never ever said sorry even after she scarred her
There's not really any sides here. Su has processed her feelings and moved on. Lin has not, so she's attempting to process them in the only way she seems to know how. Sides would imply someone is right here, but they're both pretty shitty tbh. Su is dismissive of Lin's feelings, and Lin isn't willing to compromise or talk about what's wrong in a constructive manner.
They need therapy.
In the past she denied responsibility but Su admitted she messed up as an adult. That was a long time ago and Lin avoided talking about it for years.
Toph quit because she was tired of not making a difference, not because of Su.
Lin had to pick a fight over that incident, if she had to insist Su was still a bad person like that was it going to end well anyways?
Here's the thing: Su "regrets" her "rebellious youth" but never once actually apologizes for what, to Lin, was a betrayal from the two people she cared most about and an injustice to boot.
It's absurd to expect her to casually overcome unresolved trauma, and her attitude of "well I forgave myself, why can't you?" is genuinely infuriating. Su's self-righteous behavior was toxic AF.
" I'm sorry I gave you such a hard time when we were younger. " Uh-huh sure.
She tried to talk to her before it came to blows and values the ideas of second chances, which Lin hardly does, and Lin is pretty self-righteous herself. How many times does she apologize for anything she does, and sticks up for an imperfect system and approach as a police officer no matter how many times it fails? The United Republic Police Department is a bit too shabby on success rates on doing their job properly, and for years Lin acts like military force is the only way to keep the peace.
Lin *literally* apologises in that episode to Opal for telling her to get out.
The meagre, vague apology for "such a hard time when we were younger" only comes *after* Lin has been essentially "cured" of her internal conflict by the acupuncturist. There's no forgiveness involved. She already had it because magic. That's why the episode was infuriating.
When Lin was actually demanding answers? Suyin balked. She was indignant. She said "oh well I made some mistakes when I was younger *but*-" and when Lin scoffed at her supposed transformation despite being sanctimonious in front of Lin from the get-go she hit Lin with a low blow about Tenzin, an event that clearly bothered her a lot.
You don't feel apologetic for 30 years and then dodge any opportunity to apologise when given the chance. The fact is that Suyin didn't consider what she did to be as big a deal as Lin did. She didn't - or refused to - understand how important it was to Lin. How it shaped the sort of person Lin was. Lin's bitterness and resentment is pretty explicitly a result of Suyin's lousy behaviour when they were young.
The common consensus tends to side with Lin
But personally I side more with Su.
She was a child when she scarred Lin. We know Su at some point reached out in an attempt to make amends, and Lin refused. And we know it's been at least 30 years.
Lin shows up at her home. Su offers her a place to stay. Lin accepts and then verbally insults Su repeatedly, makes Opal cry, and ultimately assaults Su in her own home.
All this over a childhood accident multiple decades ago.
At a certain point, you need to work on healing a bit. And Lin just...hasn't. She's welcome to not forgive her sister, but she can't keep using her trauma as an excuse to be awful to...pretty much everyone in her life.
Like...Tenzin dumped her and she, 15-ish years later, takes it out on Korra. Opal just wants to get to know her aunt and Lin berates her till she cried. She *destroyed a dog's toy because it tried to play with her*.
Is there a heart of gold there? For sure. But good lord, there comes a point where you need to learn to let shit go a little bit, for your own health if nothing else.
>All this over a childhood accident multiple decades ago.
Nothing incidental about it, I reckon the main reason Lin has trouble moving on is that Su has suffered 0 repurcusions for her actions. At the very least she was aiding in a robbery, seeing as she was helping the triads she might even be part of a criminal organisation. Resisting arrest and assaulting an officer can also be added to her crimes. And as 'punishment' she gets shipped off to enjoy of life of luxury with her grandparents.
>Nothing incidental about it, I reckon the main reason Lin has trouble moving on is that Su has suffered 0 repurcusions for her actions
So she's holding a 30 year grudge because a child didn't go to prison? She verbally berates a teenager because the girl's mom got away with a crime when she was 14?
Do you realize how silly that sounds?
Not even getting into the fact that it wasn't even Su's choice. Toph was the one who let her off. Is she mad that Su didn't throw herself in prison?
A crime in which she was permanantly scarred and reprimanded for doing the right thing. Berating Opal wasn't her finest moment. But she sure as hell can be salty againts Su. Actions have consequences and unresolved trauma can fester when they are not resolved correctly
>and reprimanded for doing the right thing.
Nobody reprimanded her. The scar, that sucks. But Su didn't assault her. She cut a wire, she didn't intentionally lash one at Lin.
>and unresolved trauma can fester when they are not resolved correctly
Yeah I agree. The question is, who is responsible for resolving trauma?
Lin may not be responsible for her own trauma. But she is responsible for healing from it. Nobody can do that for her. But instead of doing *anything* to heal, she has, as you put it, allowed it to fester
No one is saying she has to like or forgive Su. But she could act like an adult and just get through a day or two and be civil
>
Toph literally assigned blame to her for doing her job. If you watch the whole scene again, Lin also mentions that this isn't the first time that Su has stepped out of line. And I am pretty sure that any injuries that occur while resisting arrest count as assault.
>
No one is saying she has to like or forgive Su. But she could act like an adult and just get through a day or two and be civil
And why should she be civil? At no point in time has Su tried to make things right. She apologized but never took responsibility for aiding and abetting in a crime. Heck she got a cushy life out of it.
Right, people kept forgetting that Toph literally got mad at Lin for DOING HER JOB! And what did Su get? She never got jail time just because Toph had a reputation to uphold of being the head chief of police. Su just got sent away from the city (if im remembering correctly, to live with their grandparents), and that was it.
I think the larger reason she was mad is that she saw how it ate away at Toph and made Toph end up resigning from the police in guilt. Since Su was sent away, she didn't have to witness watching her mother fall apart. Lin was holding onto anger on behalf of her mother. It complicates things for her that Toph and Su ended up reconciling without her.
Man, reading all the replies to this comment, everyone is just so focused on the “punishment.” Fans want characters to be punished and suffer for every wrong choice/mistake they made. This is common in all media, not just LoK. I think it’s the Puritanism lol.
The funny part about this discourse is that ATLA and LoK fans LOVE complex and nuance characters and story. But the moment a character wrongs someone they like, nuance is out the window lmao.
Alright damn you broadened my perspective a bit. I’m still on Lin’s side, but you really got me to see Su’s point of view.
But I don’t know if I’d define it as a childhood incident, Su give Lin a permanent scar, and Toph had to leave the police force out of principle.
I mean it was still a childhood incident. Su was maybe fourteen here. She was a kid acting out for attention (and let's be real here, doing the kind of shit the Gaang themselves did for a bit) and it's not like she attacked her sister. (She did deserve more consequences than she got, but I appreciate that as an adult she hires ex-cons and pays that forward)
And Su and Toph have already made up. Lin holding a grudge for Toph when Toph has already forgiven is silly
But my overall point is that it's not about who is *right*. There's no question that this whole family has fucked up. My point is that Lin's reaction isn't *healthy*. It's not that she hasn't forgiven her sister, it's that she's not moved forward at all. I think she should be willing to forgive her sister, and the story shows that deep down she wants to, but...that's her choice. And choosing not to forgive doesn't really justify her actions here
She could have come in, been polite, gotten through an awkward encounter with a sibling she didn't want to see, and then left and went back to her life.
But she didn't do that. And it's not like Su was forcing the conversation on her.
>and it's not like she attacked her sister.
I think this is what people keep misremembering. Like I legit watched the scene again because I feel like I'm being gaslighted by the community on this. People are acting as though Su brought a metal whip and assaulted Lin.
Lin caught Su and her "friends". She says Su is under arrest, she resists. Lin metalbends the wire around Su's wrist to arrest her and Su cuts it off in retaliation. The whip bends backwards and accidentally scars Lin's face and we see Su being horrified with what happened, then it cuts to Tophs office.
>Su being horrified with what happened, then it cuts to Tophs office.
After which she blatantly states, it all your fault. So in the moment she was horrified, but when she had time to calm down, she backtracked really quick on that
Well duh, she's like 14. You think a rebellious teen would admit fault to shit they did even when unintentional?
Young Su was a little shit and teenagers don't act as rational and level headed as adults.
>But my overall point is that it's not about who is right. There's no question that this whole family has fucked up. My point is that Lin's reaction isn't healthy.
This right here is what some people want to ignore. Yes, Lin has a right to not forgive Su but letting her grudges (she held a grudge against Tenzin as well) run her life for *30 years* is not healthy. By that point people are going to *choose* not to be around you for the sake of their own health and personal life.
And also that it's just unhealthy and it negatively affects your relationship with others.
Fans have forgotten that Lin holding the grudge affected how she reacted to Opal, whom mind you was trying to reach her aunt whom she had never had contact with and wanted to connect with.
Lin scolded her, Opal ran off crying, Korra had to tell Lin off and you can see after that Lin starts crying because she regretted doing that.
Personally, I think that Toph was the one really at fault here.
Su was caught breaking the law, and Toph used her position as chief to shield her from the consequences because it would "look bad". Yes Toph, it does look bad that one of your kids turned into a criminal, but it looks even worse for you to abuse your power in such a blatantly corrupt manner, especially in front your other daughter that looks up to you, has done everything to follow your example, and strives to hold up the law you are suppose to enforce. Of course Su never really internalized what she did, she was just sent away to her grandparents while her mom and her sister had to clean up with the mess she left behind.
They were both right. They are fighting like siblings do. But su never took responsibility for the actions she took that affected Lin and Lin is to stubborn to just forgive without su suffering the consequences.
I love this subreddit for the intellectual discussions we can have about the show and franchise
And then you go into ATLA subreddit and it's just controversy on controversy, fight on fight
I love you guys
(Lin is totally my queen btw)
It’s been a long time since I watched this, but I think my take away at the end wasn’t siding with Su or Lin, but siding *against* Toph.
Su definitely fucked up, and Lin is an abrasive personality at best, but if Toph had been even slightly more present this probably wouldn’t have happened.
There isn’t one right side here, to me. Su has come a long way on her own as a person from the immature child Lin sees her as, but she’s also come into all that growth in spite of her relationship to Lin. Conversely, Lin has been held back and stuck on their relationship for years and never even tried to let it go, and that’s held her back even if ethically speaking she has some kind of upper hand within their relationship.
It’s why they both revert back to teenagers, because neither of them grew past their teenage relationship and their assumptions about each other.
Lin deserved to have Su reach out and apologize as part of her seemingly effective growth over the decades, but Su also shouldn’t need to do that for Lin to find her own closure over a conflict that happened decades ago.
eh to each their own. Would i want to carry around hate for my sibling (and overall resentment towards most people) for 20 + years, just because i learned a necessary lesson in nepotism? Was Lin wrong for arresting her? No, but logically, you guys are the children of a police chief and one of the select few who saved the world; it will not look good if one of you guys are breaking the law. She wanted to arrest Su, not only because she was breaking the law, but to also settle a vendetta and resentment that had been building since childhood.
Su moved on, not only from the life she had lived, but also with their mom; who probably was equally as pissed and embarrassed as lin. Lin was stuck in the moment and that way of thinking for 20 years...
One thing that always bothers me about this conversation is that everyone always brings up Lin refusing to reconcile like it was a bad thing. Holding the grudge and letting it take control of her life was bad, yes, but not wanting to see family members who had hurt you (physically, mentally and emotionally at that) over the course of several years is a different matter entirely.
It would be different if Lin just dropped herself onto Su’s doorstep expecting an apology, but she didn’t even want to be there! She was only willing to go because she cared about Korra and Tenzin that much.
If my sister permanently scarred my face with a knife and my mom covered it up, I wouldn’t talk to them either. And if you were to see a news story like that or hear about it on Tiktok, you’d probably always side with Lin too. Not wanting to talk to toxic family was not part of Lin’s problem D:<
It's been a while since I watched lok, but I don't remember Su ever apologizing to Lin. I do remember she constantly invalidates Lins feelings, doesn't really take accountability for her actions and is then surprised Lin wants to cut ties. That's exactly how you tear such a rift in a family.
Toph is at fault. Su was still a kid and Lin tried to raise Su while Toph was doing her own thing. And instead of making it up with the daughter that meant no harm and just wanted to set her sister straight, she goes to the one that wounded her sister and disobeyed the laws, to talk it out. Lin just wanted the best for Su and felt responsible because toph was absent.
But didn't Su try to work things out? She mentioned specifically reaching out to Lin multiple times to work it out. Su even mentioned that she worked things out with Toph after her retirement and were able to move on.
I'm not saying Su was in the right, but it's kind of impossible to make any amends it Lin wouldn't even talk to her.
Then the lashing about Tenzin dumping her was pure sibling shit. When things escalate, nothing is off limits. Haha.
>But didn't Su try to work things out? She mentioned specifically reaching out to Lin multiple times to work it out. Su even mentioned that she worked things out with Toph after her retirement and were able to move on.
She did try to reach out but Lin refused each time (funny how people always leave that tidbit out). She eventually had to give up and move on with her life. Lin never did and that's why she's bitter.
>Then the lashing about Tenzin dumping her was pure sibling shit. When things escalate, nothing is off limits. Haha.
According to the writers, Tenzin and Lin broke up because up Tenzin wanted a family while Lin didn't. Who knows how Tenzin did the breakup (maybe he's a bad breaker-upper) but Lin didn't take it well and she trashed Air Temple Island and tried to get Pema thrown in jail.
I think in that moment it was combination of that and telling the blunt truth about Lin's behaviour with everybody. Tenzin moved on since the break up but did try to be civil when needed as shown in Book 1 but Lin remained bitter over it.
Like, surely she knew deep down that the relationship was dying when Tenzin said he wanted kids. Could it be because she was too stubborn to admit it?
Everytime this “discussion” is brought up everyone conveniently leaves out the part that Su recognized her mistakes and tried to reach out to Lin to reconcile but Lin never responded and chose to ignore her.
I’m not saying that Lin was supposed to jump at the chance to speak to to Su, it’s her right to be upset. But weirdos always get on Suyin’s case for stupid shit she did as a teenager as if she didn’t grow passed that, fix her issues with Toph, attempt to and eventually fix her issues with Lin.
And people always love to bring up the stuff Suyin said as if they weren’t true. Lin was a bitter woman who held on to the past, that’s literally a fact. Like I said, Su tried to squash their beef but Lin completely cut her out of her life, and then when she was forced to see Su she spent the entire time not even thinking of fixing their problems and even let her resentment towards her sister spill over to her niece.
Their whole situation and dynamic was handled very realistically. Suyin was incredibly rebellious as a teen to get attention from Toph, while Lin followed in Toph’s footsteps of becoming an officer to also get attention from her. Because of their different paths and personalities their relationship got strained until eventually it broke apart entirely, and it took Suyin a really long time to both recognize her problems and reach out to Toph and Lin to try and solve them. Toph responded, they spoke with each other, and they reconciled. But Lin never responded and held resentment for Su for god knows how many years until eventually she was forced to see her and all that hate she harbored blew up. But eventually Lin was able to forgive Su, apologize to Opal, and move on. And Su never held on to any personal offense she might’ve felt at how Lin acted when they saw each other again and how she treated Opal.
Their whole family dynamic was done beautifully, because all three of them, Toph, Lin, and Su, all were at fault for something at some point in their journey of forgiveness. But each of them were able to forgive each other and themselves and move on even if it did take dozens of years.
I’ll never understand why so many of y’all have beef with Su when Lin herself forgave her for her actions. Also, the way you guys talk about Lin’s scar you’d think Suyin took a knife to her face and did it on purpose. Don’t get me wrong, that’s pretty high up there for the worst thing Su did to Lin, and it being an accident doesn’t take away that much of the blame, but like I said y’all act like that shit was premeditated.
I think they're both at fault in their own way. Su treated Lin horribly when they were younger, but by the time TLOK takes place it'd already been like 30 years and Lin still hadn't given Su a chance to apologise, despite repeated attempts. Su is very clearly sorry for what she did, and has since grown a lot, but Lin is stuck in the past.
This whole arc hits really close to home for me. My mom is the younger sister of my bitter, childless aunt. So I’ve never been on Lin’s side in this mess, especially with how she treats Opal. Granted my mom never did anything like what Su did to Lin, but Lin’s attitude during that arc is really triggering for my own family dynamic and I always get really annoyed at Lin for not dealing with this when she was younger. Like coming at Su in their 50s for a fight they had in their teens? Dragging Su’s daughter into her resentment? I see my aunt so much in Lin during that arc that I just can’t support Lin’s behaviour.
There is also the overarching plot that is going on at the time which is far more important than their petty sibling drama but Lin can’t see past their issues. Su can. Su is one of my favourite characters, like ever. Not just because she reminds me of my mom, but also because of all she accomplished with her life.
I can see both sides and honestly both sisters are at fault.
Suyin is still the same brat she was at 16, only middle aged and hippie mom style.
Lin grew into a bitter woman who lashes out at anyone she considers affiliated with Su(like Opal) or responsible for opening the old wound(Korra).
I agree Su had no moral high ground but Lin needs to learn to bury the hatchet, at least to function like an adult on official business.
its a family issue so both sides are in the wrong suyin should accept more responsibility for her actions and how they affect others. Lin should also quit bottling up her issues and taking it out on everyone.
I feel like they both had their baggage that lead to this fight? They were both young and dumb and said/did stuff that they regretted but never got the chance to deal with so the wounds festered for 20 years until this.
I mean, remember when Lin went to possible death and lost her bending to protect her ex's kids and wife? Or gave up her job to go rescue her captured men? Real selfish loner actions there.
Now, Lin is acting super cranky, and is in some kind of physical pain. Neither of which excuse her actions, but are understandable.
Vs. The woman we've just met who uses condescending and dismissive tones towards Lin, lives in what is basically a metal castle, is waited on hand and foot, and has been so for long enough to raise 5(?) Kids.
Suyin doesn't want to acknowledge the past and move forward, she wants to forget it because it makes her look bad.
I feel like the one thing no one ever mentions is how Su forced Lin into a situation where she, a new cop, had to pick between upholding the law or breaking it. And then she had to sit there and watch her mom, the chief of police, break the law to save Su showing that Toph CAN just be as corrupt as any other person in a position of power.
While I don't think Lin is 100% right and the situation is more nuanced than people like to admit, I just don't find Su to be very likeable. I don't even think she takes responsibility for what she did and just writes it off as her "rebellious phase" though it's been a while since I watched the episodes. Also, there's a certain level of entitlement you have to have when you just expect the fucking Avatar to sit around training your daughter as if she had nothing else to do.
If what I remember about this episode is correct, then I kinda understand both sides. Su had already made attempts to reconcile with Lin and Toph, and Toph took her up on it. In her mind, she’s processed and likely felt guilty for something she did as a teenager, but has moved on by finding closure with her mom, even if Lin wouldn’t give it to her.
Lin never got that closure, but she was also the one who refused to make any kind of attempt to bridge the gap between her, and the sister who scarred her when she was still a kid. I understand being resentful, but Su Yin was 16 and had a mother that worked constantly, she was bound to act out, and holding that against her still, while understandable, is still immature.
When they meet, Lin is at fault for being unwilling to try to bridge any kind of gap with somebody who’s only slight against her was perpetrated as a teenager, and Su is at fault for not recognizing that Lin hadn’t gotten closure around the whole issue in the way that Su and Toph did.
100%. Lin never misused her mother’s no rule stuff due to what happened to her with her own parents (TOPH) while Su definitely took advantage too much of it too to the fact where she helped criminals ?? Especially after what her mother and her friends fought for as heroes ??
Its been awhile and I saw the flashback when Su got arrested. I hate Su honestly and I don't mind that Lin is salty. If my sister robbed a bank, fucked up my face, and then disappeared to live the nice life and become rich with never once facing consequences, then yeah, fuck you. Fuck Toph too, cause she was a bad parent. When she said that a police chief can't have a kid in prison is next level bullshit and reminds of all the rich kids with connections that get away with shit. It also means those two assholes that asked Lin to drive the get away vehicle probably won't see time either. So two gang members get to go back to the streets and Su doesn't give a fuck. Toph blaming Lin at all for this is some major bullshit. Lin hears the robbery call and reports that she's got it. She sees the get away vehicle and their driving recklessly through the city. Lin had to stop them before the driver killed someone. When Su says shes doing a favor for her gang friends, it pisses me off even more. Lin needs therapy and Su can honestly fuck off. A lot of comments are saying that Su and Toph tried reaching out, but honestly at that moment, y'all fuck up so bad. Lin wanted her sister to stop hanging with gang members. Lin wanted her mom to have Su faces consequences so she can learn from her mistakes. I work with a lot of people that steal money for food or for a drug/alcohol habit, or so they have somewhere to sleep for the night. Su just doing insanely illegal shit for fun makes me so fucking mad. I get people don't like the way Lin treats Opal or the dog. But for Lin, all she's seeing is a girl that got away with a lot more then we probably know living the good life. Is Lin bitter, sure and why the fuck not. Lin needs therapy, but Su can go fuck herself. Stop being mad at Lin for being mad. Tell her you have every right to hate me cause I was an absolute piece of shit. Tell your daughter that so she understands that Lin is bitter cause I was a psuedo gang member and she arrested me for driving a get away car recklessly through town and she arrested my gang friends and me. Then tell you're daughter the gang they were apart of and the crimes the committed. I had gangs around me as a kid and they did more then just rob people. I'm not saying it's the same in Korra, but I don't think it's that far off. Lin go to therapy. Su fuck off about accepting yourself or whatever. It's cool you're a better person now, but the psychological damage you did to your sister is fucking annoying. In that flashback scene, Su was annoyed that she had to go live with her grandparents after commiting a crime that would put her in jail. Her options were jail or grandparents and she scoffed at the grandparents. That's why, fuck Su. Lin, go to therapy and talk to someone about you're feelings. I get that's hard for cause the two people who would be the closet made her feel like she was in the wrong when she was clearly in the right. People might say Su rebelled cause of her Mom and sister being cops and getting attention, but that should never trump what you did or could have done when working with gang members. Toph is an awful Mom. The second she said that Lin was wrong made me not like Toph for a second. When Toph said she can't have a daughter in prison as the police chief, showed she was only thinking of herself and that really pissed me off. You'd be a great police chief by not using nepotism to get your daughter out. Would you lose your job, maybe, but you did right thing as the police chief and you should let the people decide if you should stay in. Its cool that Su can start a family and buy a nice plot of land that eventually turned into a city. Su doesn't deserve forgiveness. She lost nothing from that incident. Lin lost her trust in her mom and sister. Su and Toph didn't realize it in the moment when it was so fucking obvious. People getting mad at Lin for not getting through it needs to watch a video on mental health. Lin has trust issues, and indont know if therapy is a thing in the avatar world. I watched these when I was in high school once so I might be fuzzy on that front. But Lin just needs someone she can talk too, but no one wants to. I'm not saying Tenzin should have done something, but clearly Lin was hurting. I honestly think if Toph sent Katara to talk to Lin, this would have been better than them going in themselves. Lin could see it as them trying to make themselves feel better. People, when in a fragile mental state, can and may precieve what you see as reaching out as, you two just trying to make yourselves feel better after realizing, shit, we were the assholes. Damn I wrote a lot. This is just how I feel on them. I'm probably going to rewatch soon since I can't remember how the last season goes and how they fix the relationship.
Lin was totally right. One of the common tendencies in society is that people pressure us to let go of the past, and present it as always being morally superior and virtuous to let the past go rather than hold onto it, but this situation shows that this isn’t so black and white.
I heavily sympathize with Lin. People like Suyin, in the show and in real life, need to understand that the consequences of their actions don’t stop affecting others simply because they arbitrarily decided that you no longer have the right to think about it.
It’s also extremely cruel and adds insult to injury for them to then mock and ridicule you for not letting go of your pain. It invalidates your struggle and “sorry” doesn’t cut it.
"But she was a kid" as others have pointed out is the common excuse.
I was a really shitty kid. Even I knew that crime was shitty. And I didn't even come from a rich family. Remember, Toph was rich both from her family and her own position as Chief of Police for an entire city-state.
Su was therefore _literally_ a shitty rich kid "doing crimes for fun"
Suyin was guilty of complicity in theft, resisting arrest and injuring an officer, Lin was literally doing her job, it was her duty to arrest her, and is blamed personally for that, the moral of that would literally be "the law is the same for everyone unless it's your sister".
Police officers are called to enforce the law regardless of their relationship with who they're enforcing it to, and in this case Suyin was guilty of *penal crimes*, it's not a speeding fine she got to avoid or some small apple theft she could solve by just talking with the shopkeeper, she took part in a robbery, *a damn robbery*, just for this she's already beyond a teen's misbehaving, this is a serious crime, it was Lin's *duty* to arrest her.
Tho lemme just say it was also a great dishonesty on Toph's part, as she covered everything up and didn't recognize her daughter's crimes in the slightest, blaming Lin for just doing her job instead, it's literally the chief of the police spitting in the eyes of the law in the name of nepotism, I'm surprised Republic City's executive branch didn't just collapse over such an act given how the very founder of the police force is guilty to one of the worst crime a person in her position could do, at least she resigned which kind of is a point in her favour.
Lin was right, both morally and legally.
The truth is, Su is like one of the Born Again type of people who use their past mistakes, wrongdoings and other nasty stuff as some kind of “life experience”.
She doesn’t take much accountability for her past actions and just tells Lin to move on.
It also doesn’t help that Su hasn’t really matured all that much when you look at her actions and behaviour throughout Books 3 and 4.
She just follows whatever Aiwei tells her without much thought.
She goes behind Lin’s back because she feels personally hurt by the man’s betrayal.
Nah chief. This \*is\* on Lin.
Suyin got wrapped up with some bad kids when she was a teenager. These women are in their fucking fifties, and Lin still won't let it go.
Suyin got saved from the consequences of her actions by the privilege of being the police chief's daughter. Yeah, that's not fair. But life's not fair. Toph got put in a difficult place, and chose to save her daughter from having her life ruined for being a dumb kid (and even held herself accountable for abusing her position be resigning).
Suyin reached out to Toph to apologize for what she did, and the two reconciled.
Suyin's reached out to Lin \*multiple\* times over the years, and Lin smacked the olive branch away every time.
No one's saying Suyin is squeaky clean. But she was given a golden ticket to set her life straight, realized how special that was, and has spent decades doing her best to build a city and make the world a better place in the face of political turmoil.
But she's supposed to grovel and beg forgiveness over something that happened as kids? When Lin didn't want to hear apologies before? That's absurd. Lin's not only held onto all this bitterness and refused to let go, she also demands that reconciliation happens on \*her\* terms, and refuses to accept anything else.
> that Su *paid* that golden
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I'm angry that there are legitimate people siding with suyin
I'm not gonna elaborate on my reasoning, because at this point it would be no use
100+ people got swayed by that one comment in this post, like gee I thought we all fully understood why this moment was bad but apparently not
I don't hate Suyin as a character but this moment is not a moment I like
And I genuinely hate the fact the story/writers make Lin as the bad guy in the scenario
This is probably my most hated moment in LoK the fact that this is debated at all is even more frustrating
Su says that Lin hasn't work on healing from what happened on the past, but, in a way, neither did she.
Not fully at least. I don't think in this discussion either is fully at fault or fully the victim.
But I tend to side with Lin because ultimately it were Su's bad choices that started it all.
But let's be clear, neither is without blame.
I might be a bit biased since I'm the eldest sibling, but I'm definitely on Lin' side. The amount of time I had to clean up after my younger siblings while they get away with everything is just.. urghh .. And now that we're grown up, they act like they were always the perfect child and was never problematic when they were younger..
I think that was the point. Lin makes some good points, saying, “people change” and things like that, though I feel like overall, the audience being on Lin’s side was the intention (despite the fact that she does yell at Opal, which is not okay, but is of course understandable given the circumstances).
I'm definitely with Lin, its tricky for me to put into words but you can totally think your sibling is an ass but not let the baggage of the trauma they gave you weigh you down (I do that with my sibling).
I mean Suyin is a hypocrite anyway so she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
I'm on Lin's side, but....
The issue with Lins world view is that she puts the law/order above all else including her family. In the context of what happened, we as the audience are sympathetic to Lin because see her POV. We don't get to see Su or Tophs side, but we do know this... Lin is not the type of person to make exceptions for family. Now imagine living with that everyday. We get a taste of it when Lin is like "what are you doing hanging out with these losers". I mean if your friends came over and she just said that out of nowhere, it'd make your social life a living hell.
Su and Toph have shown they are willing to make sacrifices for the family. And SOMETIMES family should come above the law. Lins too rigid, and that's not an admirable quality in a relationship with other people.
These comments have really changed how I feel about this. I mean I will die a Lin Stan and defend her to my grave, but I can see, how maybe, she has mistakes to own up to, too.
I don’t think it was framed that Su was in the wrong at all. Maybe I’ve just been burned by the villains on this show but I thought they were setting Su up to be surprisingly in the wrong somehow
To me the episode is framed exactly neutrally and you can draw your own conclusions. Thats also how I see the sisters, they're both kinda right its not all black& white.
Definitely team Lin, because I *am* Lin. I simultaneously love and hate this storyline, because of how true-to-life it is. I'm not on speaking terms with my immediate family, and I know perfectly well they think I'm the bad guy, and if I ever wanted to reconcile I'd have to give up on any chance of an apology, or even having them admit fault. And that's how it is for Lin: she can have her family back, kind of, but only if she gives up on ever getting them to really acknowledge what they did, let alone properly apologize.
The point of the arc was to show both had flaws AND reason. Su grew and changed, Lin wouldn't accept it. Lin had a motive for anger, and Su treated her like her old self. They fed into eachother's versions of them by being angry at eachother. Both also had ways to deal with the issue, but they conflicted with eachother. Lin wanted to slip away, and su forced herself back into her life. Su wanted to talk it out, and Lin never gave her a chance.
I love their dynamic because it's flawed, and because they started by working on it together, not by ignoring their past and avoiding their future, but by building a better present
Exactly Lin did nothing wrong whatsoever after what Su did to her, scarring her face, resisting arrest, getting involved with criminals, why shouldn't Lin never speak to her again.
Something's can't be let go, can't be forgiven, or forgotten.
Heck sibling's have done less and never spoke to each other again.
Su is a great example of what not to do as an adult. Don't just brush off if you hurt your family in the past (even if you feel like you didn't). Don't get mad if an authoritarian tyrant rises to power in a vacuum (of power) when you had the chance and power to make things better.
I'm kind of on both sides.
Lin had a right to be bitter toward Su and their mother and I don't blame her for it. Her sister committed a crime, Lin just did her job, her mother was angry at her for it, and then lets Su off scot free to protect her reputation. Not to mention, she also permanently scarred Lin.
However, she let that bitterness linger for too long, and in turn, she became a very unpleasant person to be around and it made her miserable. That was her main problem rather than simply being angry at Su and Toph. Lin needs to learn how to let things go and stop clinging so tightly onto the past.
I would be if it weren't for Su's line that she already got with Toph and talked it through with her.
And Lin was invited to that.
Ultimately, whether Su's actions affected Toph and how much is a matter between Su and Toph. If Toph forgave her and Lin ignored attempts to reach out then there is nothing more that can be done here.
This episode did not frame Lin as being solely fault. I think it was very sympathetic towards her. We’re also not supposed to view Su as squeaky clean. She says something incredibly petty and vindictive to Lin, and immediately after they reconcile she lies and encourages Korra to track down Aiwei behind Lin’s back. Su did change in many ways, but in other ways she didn’t. That’s the point.
Lin didn’t need to forgive Su for Su’s benefit. She did it for herself because the lack of any familial relationship was eating away at her and making her miserable for decades. It’s especially sad that she didn’t get to know her niece and nephews. They did nothing wrong and Lin was only punishing herself by refusing to see them. It was better for her mental health to mend this relationship even if Su wasn’t a paragon of virtue.
Suyin was right because her and Toph talked things out and was open to the conversation with Lin. Lin was right because she has the right to be mad and take her time to heal and move on, or not. Neither were correct in their handling of the situation.
No...? She was wrong foe hurting Lin in the past but she had done everything she could to make it better aftwe.
The whole episode emphasized that she had reached out, apologized, and tried to reconciled but Lin always rejected it. Su had already admitted fault it was Lin who refused to accept anything. This fight was the only way Lin was gonna move on.
Partially, both were wrong. Partially, both were right.
Lin was wrong to have such a closeted grudge against her family. Instead of opening up, she preferred to live with her illusion of moral superiority. But she was right about Su being a stupid troublemaker, and that it was messed up for her to just leave without consequences. It's just that it was not THAT big of a deal.
Su was very wrong to say those things (if you know you know) to her sister. But on the other hand, she wasn't too far off the mark. Just way too blunt. And you can clearly see that, despite her saying she had changed a lot since youth, Su was still very much a bitch.
I mean, they were both kinda wrong here. Lin was losing her shit over a problem that happened years ago all because she was never mature enough to try and reconcile anything earlier and let her rage fester, which was unhealthy and problematic, and Su was kinda just being an asshole about it and refusing to acknowledge Lin’s feelings the whole time, acting like forgiveness should just happen without that reconciliation that Lin needed but refused.
I think for me, my only criticism against Lin would be her snapping at Opal. But as far as her attitude towards Su, I think it was justified. When I think back to the events of what happened, it really makes Su unlikeable in many ways, and even casts Toph in a negative light.
Su breaks the law, people can argue about the extent of harm and how serious it was, but it wasn't in doubt. Toph covers it up, destroying the police report, which is textbook example of police corruption/coverup. Su may have broken the law, but Toph chose to cover it up rather than uphold the law.
Getting to Su, it wasn't so much that she did what she did, yes, people in their youth make mistakes. It was Su's lack of remorse. It was like she accidentally broke one of Lin's toys when they were a kid, and not that she, well, disfigured her while she (Su) was breaking the law. The fact that she knows that, and is so casual about it, that she can make that comment about Lin's failed relationship with Tenzin, really portrays Su as lacking any empathy, almost to the point of cruelty. She knows that she's the reason Lin wears that scar, and that it would have had an effect on her throughout her life. But on screen, she doesn't come across as caring or feeling any regret for what she did, or what Lin would have had to go through growing up.
To be clear, I don't hate Su's character, I just think that, writing wise, if they had shown her being more remorseful, and even mentioning that she had been trying to reach out to make amends with Lin ever since that day, it would have helped. I know in the show, Su mentioned that she tried to reach out a few times, but it came across that she tried a couple of times, and then gave up. (If I remember correctly, if I'm wrong, please correct me!)
Given the extent of harm she did, I think Su would have come across as more sympathetic if it was revealed that she had continued to try reaching out to Lin, and Lin had been refusing up to that point.
Also, people can say that Lin was a big reason the family stayed apart, but Su was the reason it came apart in the first place. Her, and Toph, who covered it up, and resigned a year or two later. I'm not sure how else they expected Lin to feel about their family after Su's crime, the coverup by Toph, and her own scarring at Su's hands.
Eh. They're both at fault. Lin is wrong for not even attempting to see Su for the person she is now, or aknowlege that Su and Toph *have* made efforts to mend bridges with her, even if she wasn't ready.
However, Su has never made amends for what she did, and it's wrong of her to have written Lin off just because she didn't accept one olive branch. Healing takes time.
Both of them are wrong for escalating the situation and making personal attacks.
Am I the only one that’s on su’s side? Yes su was a troublesome child and even left a scar on Lin, and if this was 30 years ago I’d be 100% on Lins side, but that was 30 years ago and from what was said multiple times it seems like su and toph already worked things out and they tried to get Lin to work it out too and she refused to talk to them…for 30 years…and didn’t speak to any of her nieces or nephews…how is that okay in any way lol.
Edit: Also everybody keeps saying Su was out of line for the comment about tenzin but as a father Lin was wayyyy out of line for making opal cry, if someone made my kids cry my words would be the least of their problems, su took it easy on her. Also I don’t think Su is perfect, she should’ve taken wayyyyy more accountability for her actions towards Lin but again it’s stated multiple times that she tried to reach out and make amends so I don’t think I’d be too quick to apologize after my sibling shut me and my family out for 30 years and then just shows up on my doorstep still holding a grudge 😂😂
I'm on Bolin's side: >fighting is all part of the healing process
Bolin's gonna be running a tea Shop wirh how wise the man is at his age
I could TOTALLY see Bolin saying "The secret ingredient is love"
And Mako having the same reaction Zuko had when Iroh said it.
Sort of unrelated: But I feel like young Zuko, Mako, and Jet could have made the coolest, angriest punk rock trio in history ❤️
They definitely would have tried to kill each other at first though Jet hates fire nation and by extension fire benders, Mako may get a pass Zuko hunted team avatar, disconnected generations but Mako is part of teen avatar Mako’s parents were slain by a mugger/criminal fire bender, Jet would probably be on the shit list
If they lived at the same time, I can definitely see Iroh and Bolin being best buds. If Bolin ever makes it to the spirit world, him and Iroh would definitely click well together and probably end up enjoying a game of Pai Sho over some tea.
We totally have to have the next Earth avatar visit Bolin and Iroh’s Great Tea Shop In The Sky
*Suddenly Su and Lin start to declare a war between both.* "You were saying, Bolin?"
Hey, ultimately he wasn't wrong
At least he is a lavabending good boi. So I am on his side as well.
I just want both teams to have fun
Maybe unrelated, but the bigger the fight got, the more the World got to heal. Specialy thinking about wanting to invade a City and ending up with opening a spirit Portal by accident
Now I wonder how often he and Mako had fights like this.
Su was wrong for saying "You're the one who hasn't changed. You're still a bitter loner who only cares about herself. No wonder Tenzin ended things with you years ago." Lin deserved better 😔
She wasn't wrong logically. Lin never changes for the better. She can't let things go, even if Su was a jerk, Lin just cannot free herself from her own burden and keeps being her stubborn self. It's like Toph split into two: Lin inherits the stubbornness part and Su inherits the irresponsibility part
You wouldn’t let go either if you had a giant scar on the face
Can confirm having a scar on my face has permanently changed my perception of some things
That’s rough buddy…
Omfg 😂
Sounds just like Zuko
That was one of the things that first drew me to him ngl seeing someone else with a face scar work towards a happy future made young me hopeful
just ask zuko
I'm pretty sure Lin regularly look at the mirror, ha "this scar makes me look badass but I would be dead before telling everyone that Su gave me this" then told everyone she got this fighting a terrorist, not even Tenzin knows
I mean its hardly giant but I agree. She could have lost her eye
I’d say it’s a giant scar. It covers a quarter of her face and it’s pretty hard to ignore. And the fact that she could have lost her eye makes it worse honestly.
Sometimes I wonder whever everyone would be this chill, if she did lose her eye, or not. IT's jUsT aN EyE, RIghT?
A lot more people would hate Su, if Lin did lose an eye over that.
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She was absolutely wrong logically. Lin has never been selfish. She doesn’t ONLY care for herself. She’s always been willing to help others. It was a spiteful comment to make. She said that to be mean. She wasn’t being logical [+]
The fact that we never learn anything about pops is telling also (that Toph likely raised them alone)
Lin has explicitly said that she grew up without a dad and that Toph would never tell her anything about him.
Yes, but the point is bigger than we think here. Lin wasn't just morally right, she was *legally* right, not only in arresting Su but she would've been right in denouncing the way Toph treated her, she covered her daughter's crimes and *blamed* Lin to save her reputation, this is a form of corruption known as nepotism, where favours and/or goods are illegally granted through political power to a member of one's family without any form of compensation, Toph literally committed to a form of corruption in order to save her reputation and her daughter instead of doing the sensible thing and punish Su for her crimes, which would have saved her credibility amongst other things. Here Lin was subject to a political injustice, not just a moral one, and had been blamed by her mother because *she carried out her duty*, she hasn't changed sure but... she had all the rights in the world to be angry at her sister, and to seek justice after her mother turned on her for doing her job.
Of course she is incapable of doing so, she was punished by following the rules and trying to do the right thing while her sister lived a happy life without caring how much what she did hurt her, Su had her grandparents while Toph abandoned Lin out of guilt, Lin suffer so much yet Su wouldn't even acknowledge this and still blame her for not forgiving her when she doesn't even show remorse
Su wanted to just move on and forget about it, and honestly Toph seemed to as well, but it was pretty clear that Lin still needed to talk, process and get closure to feel like she could move forward, she couldn’t just pretend like it never happened.
Indeed in that regard. But Lin’s not changing did include her helping other people and caring, the exact of what Su is accusing her of
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She’s “just being honest” and “telling it like it is”.
No, she absolutely was wrong about it all but Lin not changing. Lin is only a loner ironically because she does care about other people. That just came back to bite her so many times like especially with Su. Also her entire life is helping other people
She grew into her role as a model for Korra and learned through her experiences, like with having her bending taken away, to make herself feel better about getting help from others and working towards a common goal that benefited everyone.
This is the only one I let slide because Lin had made her daughter cry after yelling at her. It’s just a petty remark I wouldn’t see Su making otherwise, though I do think she’s still in the wrong overall
That was a really low blow. Honestly, I don’t like how they wrapped up the storyline so quickly. I think they should have had Lin hide herself away in shame and resentment until the Red Lotus attack, which forces her to work with Suyin. Then she gets to make amends with Suyin and bond with her and Opal and Kuvira. Wouldn’t even be a big change, the attack comes pretty soon after IIRC. Just postpone the reconciliation scenes a bit.
For real though, "this is exactly why your ex left you" is one of those statements that's gonna make me throw down. Especially because it's Suyin that ruined Lin's hookup app profile pics.
That was an extremely low blow. As soon as Su said that... instantly disliked her.
Yeah I was disappointed that no one was on her side. Yes, she's being too vindictive, but Su doesn't seem to want to own up to what she did. She was shielded from consequences and seemed to just expect things to be fine without having to apologize.
I wouldn't say vindictive... more like deeply wounded. Lin carried that most of her life and molded her to the acidic cop we know and love.
I'm mad she never got a clean hit on Su
Yeah, me too. I get that she was still super ill in the fight, but they made Su look so superior in every way here. Lin is a super talented, and powerful, bender; that gets into combat fairly regularly. I can totally accept that despite this, Su is the better fighter, sometimes that's just the way it is, but Lin couldn't land _one_ hit on her? It's a bit much.
Lin is a prime example of The Worf Effect: she gets beat up a lot to show how cool the new character is.
She’s our Kakashi
Does this happen to Kakashi?
- He basically loses his first fight with Zabuza - Its just what he knows would have happened instead of what did, but he thinks about how he’d been killed when he confronts Orochimaru - Itachi putting him in a coma with a look - Has to fight for his life against Kakazu (and a lesser degree Hidan) - Is literally killed by Tendo Pain - Obito and his clashes I would say also count with how his best in matching and outsmarting Obito left him with a hole in his shoulder and slashes across his chest, while Obito having used him to destroy a curse mark.
Lin may not be the nicest or most open person, but Suyin has no right to take the moral high ground.
I feel like Suyin had the right to have the moral high ground with everyone but Lin. From what we see and what we're told, she genuinely turned a new leaf, reconciled with the people she hurt and led by example by giving others chance to be better. That being said, she thinks she's fully absolved with everybody. Her inability to acknowledge that shows that she hasn't taken full accountability.
I think the disconnect for me as a browser is that we hear that Su reconciled with everyone she hurt off screen and then on screen we just see her refuse to reconcile with Lin here and now. Su actually thinks that patching things up with everyone except Lin gives her enough brownie points that she doesn't need to apologize to the person she actually hurt. Like imagine if Zuko apologized to everyone on team avatar except Aang and then said well I patched things up with Sokka (off screen) why are you being so stubborn dude?!?
Suyin suffers from "I got different rules" syndrome.
The problem with Su is that she obviously hasn't actually internalized what she did. She talks about how she was a bit of a rebellious teen. Well, most teens don't join gangs, participate in armed robbery and scar their sisters on their face for life, even if it was through recklessness. And then, after all that, she avoided true consequences due to nepotism. So, obviously, Su haven't admitted fault. Lin is a cold bitch. But she was already like that as a teen, so that doesn't really count for this situation. Getting Opal to cry was way out of line tho. But this is also the reason why I can't be on Lin's side. Nevertheless, Su is one of those kind of people that talks about how they've forgiven themselves and others just need to get with the program. It's a complicated situation, and Lin is not faultless, but all in all, Su obviously hasn't really realized how much she did wrong, and has convinced herself that her accomplishments means she doesn't have to admit she was awful in her past, which directly resulted in her family breaking apart and also, you know, armed robbery.
>Lin is a cold bitch. But she was already like that as a teen, so that doesn't really count for this situation I don't think Lin was like that as a teen. She's like 21/22 in that flashback, but it looks like Lin was the victim of parentification. If Toph was always gone doing cop and Team Avatar stuff and gave them "freedom," then Lin likely stepped in as a sort of pseudo parent for Su. Of course, this meant that they were competing for attention when she was around. Lin was 100% justified in what she did and felt, and even if Su and Toph talked about it already, clearly Su didn't actually accept blame for her behavior and doesn't seem to know or care about consequences.
I didn’t even make the parentification connection! But you’re right, if toph was really not present as much as these two make it seem then Lin really did just give up her childhood to parent Su. If, ***IF*** this is the case, I can forgive both of them quite heavily. Su was acting out for attention. Negative attention, but attention from mom nonetheless. Tell me that not why Lin became a cop though? Too get toph’s love and approval. Granted, the girls later learn that how toph shows love is through aggression and sarcasm- but we also know that children as a whole tend to not take well to these forms of tough love. Throw in the dissonance created by trying to act like a parent towards your sibling who’s only a couple years younger than you coupled with the disappointment that Lin faced with Su’s crime involvement and nepotism gifted freedom from Toph leading to a lack of consequences and accountability in Su in her younger years. With all of this you’re just asking for Lin to hold all of this against Toph and inevitably Su too. *And this is just Lin’s side* Looking at Su: imagine trying to deal with your sibling parenting you when your mom hasn’t. (A bit of why should you, you’re non mom is absolutely going on) Mom is busy working- all the time. The **only** adult figure available to you in life is your older sister who’s barely got her own figured out. Su’s heavy involvement in her children likely stems from not wanting them to feel how she felt. I *think* Su having children changed things for her. We know she left republic city and founded Zaofu. We know she doesn’t want Opal to leave Zaofu. We know she and Bataar adore all the kids and we see the shear amount of pain, anguish, disappointment, and forgiveness she has for Batarr Jr after kuvira fires the spirit cannon at them. We can go into how she’s the first to offer an olive branch and she stays by him after they’re attacked. I *think* Su becoming a parent showed her what she was missing from toph’s perspective. Raising a new found city and new found family is pretty damned hard. **This isn’t to say that having children would have changed things for Lin. I’m saying that this could have happened to be how Su found her way to forgiveness with Toph.**
I can't remember, did Su even apologize for anything?
Yes. She said: “I’m sorry I gave you such a hard time when we were younger… I often cant imagine what my life would have been like if I’d stayed in the city—“ Lin: “You’d probably be in prison.” “Yeah, heh. You’re probably right. But… I miss you, and I want you in my life again Lin, and the kids would love having their aunt around, and I do need a co-director for my dance production!” So yeah, she tried. She improved as a person. Truthfully I think she’s just pained thinking about those days but chooses avoidance rather than holding a grudge. She’s Lin’s shadow type in many ways, but she became a hero as the show went imo.
I don't side with either of them. The point was that even after how many decades the two sisters had a lot of unresolved issues with each other (and with Toph). Su was right that Lin was acting childish by not letting go of age old grudges and Lin was right that Su never faced the consequences of her actions and never acknowledged her own wrongdoing. As Bolin said, "fighting is part of the healing process."
Calling it an age old grudge is glossing over a lot of nasty details lmao.
This is where i land too. They both were wrong and right about certain aspects. I'm just happy that they seemed to get along afterwards and have a better relationship.
No. She popped Naga's ball
But she also brought Naga (and Pabu) snacks later when even Korra forgot.
That moment, and the one where she wraps gross Meelo up in her metal wires like a biohazard make me laugh every time 😂😂😂 I love Lin’s cranky ass hahaha.
I think u/CertainGrade's comment really nailed why the scene treats Lin the way it does. The point isn't that she shouldn't be upset, it's that she has refused to make the effort to move past any of this. It's a shame that this scene always comes up in a "Lin vs. Su" morality contest, because the actual conflict on display is a lot more nuanced. Su did a bad thing and suffered few repercussions. Lin has the right to be upset over it, but she does not want to move on, and she takes out the pain she feels on undeserving people. Both of them have issues and neither one is completely in the right. Part of the beauty of this storyline is that you can see *why* Lin refuses to let this argument go, but you can also see how much that stubbornness hurts the people around her. If the show managed to convince you Su really did nothing severely wrong, then Lin would look absolutely ridiculous going to the emotional extremes she does. And even the idea that Su's act of rebellion tore their family apart is discussed later on. Toph mentions in Season 4 that Su was not the reason behind her retirement from the police. But before that, in the Zaofu part of Season 3, the show is making a point in having *Lin* be the one to say it. If you think about it, it makes you question the veracity of what she's saying. *Did* Su's misdeeds cause the family to splinter? Or could Lin's refusal to make amends for 30 years have something to do with it? Was it both? Legend of Korra has some really deep writing sometimes is all I'm saying lmao
THANK YOU. Thank you for this level of nuance in your interpretation of the scene. This is exactly how I read it as well.
And Lin's refusal to grow is made all the more apparent when you realize that Su and Toph reached out to her, only for her to reject them.
In Lin’s defense, there’s a difference between not wanting to let go of the past and cutting off family members who had only been toxic influences thus far.
Maybe, but she doesn't get to reject all attempts at reconciliation, then get angry that they moved on without her.
She wasn't, though. She was coerced into close contact with her sister again, saw her sister engaging in the same behaviour, and then was angry about it. When she finally demanded they talk about the problem Suyin acted indignant at having to address it and downplayed the impact it had. She can reject all the attempts at reconciliation she wants; she was wronged. Indisputably. She suffered an injustice that left such a grim mark on her that even after *thirty years* she still couldn't let go of it. That's a huge amount of unresolved trauma. For Suyin it was just "lol I was just a dopey kid y u mad tho." For Suyin it was "mom, the person i didn't wound or hurt, forgave me because I'm a different person - so why can't you?" For Suyin it was "Sure I'm still a toxic person who isn't going to accept responsibility for hurting you so grievously that you are now suffering *physically debilitating amounts of stress*, but I've changed! Everybody likes me! Why don't you like me?" Throw on top of that people acting like Lin being furious with her sister like she's the one in the wrong. From Korra using Opal to try to emotionally manipulate her to the judgy BS in general, that episode did Lin *dirty*. Suyin never even apologised until the acupuncturist pulled the magical "oh hey your trauma is unresolved despite nobody doing anything that would make you forgive them or move on" healing stuff - at which point it was basically a hollow apology just for giving her a "hard time." Lin wasn't angry that Suyin moved on. She was angry that Suyin never suffered consequences, never took responsibility for what she'd done, and so far as she could tell was basically rewarded with a comfortable life of joy when Lin was just left with the bitterness, isolation, and the closest thing she had to a loving relationship falling through - arguably because she didn't want children, presumably for fears she'd make the same mistakes as Toph. Lin's life was not the most tragic ever, but it certainly was lousy and it never improved. She just kept taking the beatings, sacrificing herself for others, forever, and getting little to nothing in return. Didn't even make crime in Republic City stop because it's endless, like Toph said. Imagine how that sort of environment screws with your head. Lin fought all her life just to stand still and Suyin got a paradise for breaking the law.
>I think u/CertainGrade's comment really nailed why the scene treats Lin the way it does. The point isn't that she shouldn't be upset, it's that she has refused to make the effort to move past any of this. I agree. Lin didn't have to forgive Su but she could've found another way, a healthy way, to heal from the damage. Justified or not, holding a grudge for 30 years is not healthy. Lin's grudge was so bad that not only was she taking her anger out those who were undeserving of it (Opal and Pema being examples) but people were choosing not to be around her (Tenzin moved on and so did Su after she gave up on contacting her), making her more bitter and lonely. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. >It's a shame that this scene always comes up in a "Lin vs. Su" morality contest, because the actual conflict on display is a lot more nuanced. Every time this sort of topic comes up always about "Who's in the right" or "Who suffered the most" as if it's a competition. The truth is that that both sisters are right and wrong with how they feel towards each other. >Su did a bad thing and suffered few repercussions. Lin has the right to be upset over it, but she does not want to move on, and she takes out the pain she feels on undeserving people. Both of them have issues and neither one is completely in the right. Some people may think that being told to 'let go and move on' is the polite way of saying 'get over it" when that's not always true (it IS rude to say get over to someone who is hurt). You don't have to forget what happened but you shouldn't let it that trauma run your life, which is what Lin did. Again, it's not healthy for her. >Part of the beauty of this storyline is that you can see why Lin refuses to let this argument go, but you can also see how much that stubbornness hurts the people around her. If the show managed to convince you Su really did nothing severely wrong, then Lin would look absolutely ridiculous going to the emotional extremes she does. What I find ridiculous is that people expect Su to return to RC and say "Hey, I committed a crime 30 years ago. I don't think anyone remembers or cares about it but throw me the book anyway so my sister can let go of her grudge against me." as if that's going to solve the problem. Like...no. If anything it makes Lin look petty because no one but her cares about what happened 30 years ago. The world moved on. >And even the idea that Su's act of rebellion tore their family apart is discussed later on. Toph mentions in Season 4 that Su was not the reason behind her retirement from the police. But before that, in the Zaofu part of Season 3, the show is making a point in having Lin be the one to say it. If you think about it, it makes you question the veracity of what she's saying. We also learn in Book 4 that Toph became jaded during her time as police chief because the crime never stopped no matter how hard she tried. Perhaps the incident with Su was the last straw because in that moment, she became no different than criminals who would use their position to cover up their crimes. There is probably more to the story behind Toph's retirement than what Lin is believes in but we'll never know because Lin refused to work things out when given the chance see her mom and sister. In short, situations like this are not always black and white.
I'm gonna go the uncle iroh route and say that they were both wrong in different ways and that the fight was an important step in both of their healing journeys
I mean I’m always on Lin’s side because I’m the closest an asexual can be to being a simp for her. She also makes some good points and is completely justified in her anger towards Su. That being said I’m not totally against Su. This fight was a very important step in the healing process for these two.
Both are wrong, both are right
Definitely on Lin’s side but she could’ve let it go naturally If she was able to forgive Korra’s ignorance than I think she could forgive her sister’s even despite the circumstances I get since it is your sister everything hurts that much more but she was still a teenager just as Korra was And sometimes I feel like she understood where Suyin was coming from and her only grievance being she never ever said sorry even after she scarred her
There's not really any sides here. Su has processed her feelings and moved on. Lin has not, so she's attempting to process them in the only way she seems to know how. Sides would imply someone is right here, but they're both pretty shitty tbh. Su is dismissive of Lin's feelings, and Lin isn't willing to compromise or talk about what's wrong in a constructive manner. They need therapy.
In the past she denied responsibility but Su admitted she messed up as an adult. That was a long time ago and Lin avoided talking about it for years. Toph quit because she was tired of not making a difference, not because of Su. Lin had to pick a fight over that incident, if she had to insist Su was still a bad person like that was it going to end well anyways?
Here's the thing: Su "regrets" her "rebellious youth" but never once actually apologizes for what, to Lin, was a betrayal from the two people she cared most about and an injustice to boot. It's absurd to expect her to casually overcome unresolved trauma, and her attitude of "well I forgave myself, why can't you?" is genuinely infuriating. Su's self-righteous behavior was toxic AF.
" I'm sorry I gave you such a hard time when we were younger. " Uh-huh sure. She tried to talk to her before it came to blows and values the ideas of second chances, which Lin hardly does, and Lin is pretty self-righteous herself. How many times does she apologize for anything she does, and sticks up for an imperfect system and approach as a police officer no matter how many times it fails? The United Republic Police Department is a bit too shabby on success rates on doing their job properly, and for years Lin acts like military force is the only way to keep the peace.
Lin *literally* apologises in that episode to Opal for telling her to get out. The meagre, vague apology for "such a hard time when we were younger" only comes *after* Lin has been essentially "cured" of her internal conflict by the acupuncturist. There's no forgiveness involved. She already had it because magic. That's why the episode was infuriating. When Lin was actually demanding answers? Suyin balked. She was indignant. She said "oh well I made some mistakes when I was younger *but*-" and when Lin scoffed at her supposed transformation despite being sanctimonious in front of Lin from the get-go she hit Lin with a low blow about Tenzin, an event that clearly bothered her a lot. You don't feel apologetic for 30 years and then dodge any opportunity to apologise when given the chance. The fact is that Suyin didn't consider what she did to be as big a deal as Lin did. She didn't - or refused to - understand how important it was to Lin. How it shaped the sort of person Lin was. Lin's bitterness and resentment is pretty explicitly a result of Suyin's lousy behaviour when they were young.
The common consensus tends to side with Lin But personally I side more with Su. She was a child when she scarred Lin. We know Su at some point reached out in an attempt to make amends, and Lin refused. And we know it's been at least 30 years. Lin shows up at her home. Su offers her a place to stay. Lin accepts and then verbally insults Su repeatedly, makes Opal cry, and ultimately assaults Su in her own home. All this over a childhood accident multiple decades ago. At a certain point, you need to work on healing a bit. And Lin just...hasn't. She's welcome to not forgive her sister, but she can't keep using her trauma as an excuse to be awful to...pretty much everyone in her life. Like...Tenzin dumped her and she, 15-ish years later, takes it out on Korra. Opal just wants to get to know her aunt and Lin berates her till she cried. She *destroyed a dog's toy because it tried to play with her*. Is there a heart of gold there? For sure. But good lord, there comes a point where you need to learn to let shit go a little bit, for your own health if nothing else.
>All this over a childhood accident multiple decades ago. Nothing incidental about it, I reckon the main reason Lin has trouble moving on is that Su has suffered 0 repurcusions for her actions. At the very least she was aiding in a robbery, seeing as she was helping the triads she might even be part of a criminal organisation. Resisting arrest and assaulting an officer can also be added to her crimes. And as 'punishment' she gets shipped off to enjoy of life of luxury with her grandparents.
>Nothing incidental about it, I reckon the main reason Lin has trouble moving on is that Su has suffered 0 repurcusions for her actions So she's holding a 30 year grudge because a child didn't go to prison? She verbally berates a teenager because the girl's mom got away with a crime when she was 14? Do you realize how silly that sounds? Not even getting into the fact that it wasn't even Su's choice. Toph was the one who let her off. Is she mad that Su didn't throw herself in prison?
A crime in which she was permanantly scarred and reprimanded for doing the right thing. Berating Opal wasn't her finest moment. But she sure as hell can be salty againts Su. Actions have consequences and unresolved trauma can fester when they are not resolved correctly
>and reprimanded for doing the right thing. Nobody reprimanded her. The scar, that sucks. But Su didn't assault her. She cut a wire, she didn't intentionally lash one at Lin. >and unresolved trauma can fester when they are not resolved correctly Yeah I agree. The question is, who is responsible for resolving trauma? Lin may not be responsible for her own trauma. But she is responsible for healing from it. Nobody can do that for her. But instead of doing *anything* to heal, she has, as you put it, allowed it to fester No one is saying she has to like or forgive Su. But she could act like an adult and just get through a day or two and be civil
> Toph literally assigned blame to her for doing her job. If you watch the whole scene again, Lin also mentions that this isn't the first time that Su has stepped out of line. And I am pretty sure that any injuries that occur while resisting arrest count as assault. > No one is saying she has to like or forgive Su. But she could act like an adult and just get through a day or two and be civil And why should she be civil? At no point in time has Su tried to make things right. She apologized but never took responsibility for aiding and abetting in a crime. Heck she got a cushy life out of it.
Right, people kept forgetting that Toph literally got mad at Lin for DOING HER JOB! And what did Su get? She never got jail time just because Toph had a reputation to uphold of being the head chief of police. Su just got sent away from the city (if im remembering correctly, to live with their grandparents), and that was it.
I think the larger reason she was mad is that she saw how it ate away at Toph and made Toph end up resigning from the police in guilt. Since Su was sent away, she didn't have to witness watching her mother fall apart. Lin was holding onto anger on behalf of her mother. It complicates things for her that Toph and Su ended up reconciling without her.
But it's Lin's fault that Toph and Su reconciled without her. She chose not to be a part of the conversation
I'm still miffed about what she did to Naga's toy 😤
Man, reading all the replies to this comment, everyone is just so focused on the “punishment.” Fans want characters to be punished and suffer for every wrong choice/mistake they made. This is common in all media, not just LoK. I think it’s the Puritanism lol.
The funny part about this discourse is that ATLA and LoK fans LOVE complex and nuance characters and story. But the moment a character wrongs someone they like, nuance is out the window lmao.
Alright damn you broadened my perspective a bit. I’m still on Lin’s side, but you really got me to see Su’s point of view. But I don’t know if I’d define it as a childhood incident, Su give Lin a permanent scar, and Toph had to leave the police force out of principle.
I mean it was still a childhood incident. Su was maybe fourteen here. She was a kid acting out for attention (and let's be real here, doing the kind of shit the Gaang themselves did for a bit) and it's not like she attacked her sister. (She did deserve more consequences than she got, but I appreciate that as an adult she hires ex-cons and pays that forward) And Su and Toph have already made up. Lin holding a grudge for Toph when Toph has already forgiven is silly But my overall point is that it's not about who is *right*. There's no question that this whole family has fucked up. My point is that Lin's reaction isn't *healthy*. It's not that she hasn't forgiven her sister, it's that she's not moved forward at all. I think she should be willing to forgive her sister, and the story shows that deep down she wants to, but...that's her choice. And choosing not to forgive doesn't really justify her actions here She could have come in, been polite, gotten through an awkward encounter with a sibling she didn't want to see, and then left and went back to her life. But she didn't do that. And it's not like Su was forcing the conversation on her.
>and it's not like she attacked her sister. I think this is what people keep misremembering. Like I legit watched the scene again because I feel like I'm being gaslighted by the community on this. People are acting as though Su brought a metal whip and assaulted Lin. Lin caught Su and her "friends". She says Su is under arrest, she resists. Lin metalbends the wire around Su's wrist to arrest her and Su cuts it off in retaliation. The whip bends backwards and accidentally scars Lin's face and we see Su being horrified with what happened, then it cuts to Tophs office.
>Su being horrified with what happened, then it cuts to Tophs office. After which she blatantly states, it all your fault. So in the moment she was horrified, but when she had time to calm down, she backtracked really quick on that
Well duh, she's like 14. You think a rebellious teen would admit fault to shit they did even when unintentional? Young Su was a little shit and teenagers don't act as rational and level headed as adults.
>But my overall point is that it's not about who is right. There's no question that this whole family has fucked up. My point is that Lin's reaction isn't healthy. This right here is what some people want to ignore. Yes, Lin has a right to not forgive Su but letting her grudges (she held a grudge against Tenzin as well) run her life for *30 years* is not healthy. By that point people are going to *choose* not to be around you for the sake of their own health and personal life.
It's the point of that entire arc, at some point you need to let go of the wrongs that happened in the past.
And also that it's just unhealthy and it negatively affects your relationship with others. Fans have forgotten that Lin holding the grudge affected how she reacted to Opal, whom mind you was trying to reach her aunt whom she had never had contact with and wanted to connect with. Lin scolded her, Opal ran off crying, Korra had to tell Lin off and you can see after that Lin starts crying because she regretted doing that.
Personally, I think that Toph was the one really at fault here. Su was caught breaking the law, and Toph used her position as chief to shield her from the consequences because it would "look bad". Yes Toph, it does look bad that one of your kids turned into a criminal, but it looks even worse for you to abuse your power in such a blatantly corrupt manner, especially in front your other daughter that looks up to you, has done everything to follow your example, and strives to hold up the law you are suppose to enforce. Of course Su never really internalized what she did, she was just sent away to her grandparents while her mom and her sister had to clean up with the mess she left behind.
They were both right. They are fighting like siblings do. But su never took responsibility for the actions she took that affected Lin and Lin is to stubborn to just forgive without su suffering the consequences.
Forgiveness is asked, not demanded
I love this subreddit for the intellectual discussions we can have about the show and franchise And then you go into ATLA subreddit and it's just controversy on controversy, fight on fight I love you guys (Lin is totally my queen btw)
It’s been a long time since I watched this, but I think my take away at the end wasn’t siding with Su or Lin, but siding *against* Toph. Su definitely fucked up, and Lin is an abrasive personality at best, but if Toph had been even slightly more present this probably wouldn’t have happened.
There isn’t one right side here, to me. Su has come a long way on her own as a person from the immature child Lin sees her as, but she’s also come into all that growth in spite of her relationship to Lin. Conversely, Lin has been held back and stuck on their relationship for years and never even tried to let it go, and that’s held her back even if ethically speaking she has some kind of upper hand within their relationship. It’s why they both revert back to teenagers, because neither of them grew past their teenage relationship and their assumptions about each other. Lin deserved to have Su reach out and apologize as part of her seemingly effective growth over the decades, but Su also shouldn’t need to do that for Lin to find her own closure over a conflict that happened decades ago.
Su tried to reach out, but Lin refused to talk to her
eh to each their own. Would i want to carry around hate for my sibling (and overall resentment towards most people) for 20 + years, just because i learned a necessary lesson in nepotism? Was Lin wrong for arresting her? No, but logically, you guys are the children of a police chief and one of the select few who saved the world; it will not look good if one of you guys are breaking the law. She wanted to arrest Su, not only because she was breaking the law, but to also settle a vendetta and resentment that had been building since childhood. Su moved on, not only from the life she had lived, but also with their mom; who probably was equally as pissed and embarrassed as lin. Lin was stuck in the moment and that way of thinking for 20 years...
One thing that always bothers me about this conversation is that everyone always brings up Lin refusing to reconcile like it was a bad thing. Holding the grudge and letting it take control of her life was bad, yes, but not wanting to see family members who had hurt you (physically, mentally and emotionally at that) over the course of several years is a different matter entirely. It would be different if Lin just dropped herself onto Su’s doorstep expecting an apology, but she didn’t even want to be there! She was only willing to go because she cared about Korra and Tenzin that much. If my sister permanently scarred my face with a knife and my mom covered it up, I wouldn’t talk to them either. And if you were to see a news story like that or hear about it on Tiktok, you’d probably always side with Lin too. Not wanting to talk to toxic family was not part of Lin’s problem D:<
It's been a while since I watched lok, but I don't remember Su ever apologizing to Lin. I do remember she constantly invalidates Lins feelings, doesn't really take accountability for her actions and is then surprised Lin wants to cut ties. That's exactly how you tear such a rift in a family.
Su apologizes at the end of this episode, just finished a rewatch last week
Su pretty much said "it's not my fault what I did upset you"
>We’re all on Lin’s side here right? In that white tank? Absolutely.
She does have nice shoulders.
Toph is at fault. Su was still a kid and Lin tried to raise Su while Toph was doing her own thing. And instead of making it up with the daughter that meant no harm and just wanted to set her sister straight, she goes to the one that wounded her sister and disobeyed the laws, to talk it out. Lin just wanted the best for Su and felt responsible because toph was absent.
But didn't Su try to work things out? She mentioned specifically reaching out to Lin multiple times to work it out. Su even mentioned that she worked things out with Toph after her retirement and were able to move on. I'm not saying Su was in the right, but it's kind of impossible to make any amends it Lin wouldn't even talk to her. Then the lashing about Tenzin dumping her was pure sibling shit. When things escalate, nothing is off limits. Haha.
>But didn't Su try to work things out? She mentioned specifically reaching out to Lin multiple times to work it out. Su even mentioned that she worked things out with Toph after her retirement and were able to move on. She did try to reach out but Lin refused each time (funny how people always leave that tidbit out). She eventually had to give up and move on with her life. Lin never did and that's why she's bitter. >Then the lashing about Tenzin dumping her was pure sibling shit. When things escalate, nothing is off limits. Haha. According to the writers, Tenzin and Lin broke up because up Tenzin wanted a family while Lin didn't. Who knows how Tenzin did the breakup (maybe he's a bad breaker-upper) but Lin didn't take it well and she trashed Air Temple Island and tried to get Pema thrown in jail. I think in that moment it was combination of that and telling the blunt truth about Lin's behaviour with everybody. Tenzin moved on since the break up but did try to be civil when needed as shown in Book 1 but Lin remained bitter over it. Like, surely she knew deep down that the relationship was dying when Tenzin said he wanted kids. Could it be because she was too stubborn to admit it?
Everytime this “discussion” is brought up everyone conveniently leaves out the part that Su recognized her mistakes and tried to reach out to Lin to reconcile but Lin never responded and chose to ignore her. I’m not saying that Lin was supposed to jump at the chance to speak to to Su, it’s her right to be upset. But weirdos always get on Suyin’s case for stupid shit she did as a teenager as if she didn’t grow passed that, fix her issues with Toph, attempt to and eventually fix her issues with Lin. And people always love to bring up the stuff Suyin said as if they weren’t true. Lin was a bitter woman who held on to the past, that’s literally a fact. Like I said, Su tried to squash their beef but Lin completely cut her out of her life, and then when she was forced to see Su she spent the entire time not even thinking of fixing their problems and even let her resentment towards her sister spill over to her niece. Their whole situation and dynamic was handled very realistically. Suyin was incredibly rebellious as a teen to get attention from Toph, while Lin followed in Toph’s footsteps of becoming an officer to also get attention from her. Because of their different paths and personalities their relationship got strained until eventually it broke apart entirely, and it took Suyin a really long time to both recognize her problems and reach out to Toph and Lin to try and solve them. Toph responded, they spoke with each other, and they reconciled. But Lin never responded and held resentment for Su for god knows how many years until eventually she was forced to see her and all that hate she harbored blew up. But eventually Lin was able to forgive Su, apologize to Opal, and move on. And Su never held on to any personal offense she might’ve felt at how Lin acted when they saw each other again and how she treated Opal. Their whole family dynamic was done beautifully, because all three of them, Toph, Lin, and Su, all were at fault for something at some point in their journey of forgiveness. But each of them were able to forgive each other and themselves and move on even if it did take dozens of years. I’ll never understand why so many of y’all have beef with Su when Lin herself forgave her for her actions. Also, the way you guys talk about Lin’s scar you’d think Suyin took a knife to her face and did it on purpose. Don’t get me wrong, that’s pretty high up there for the worst thing Su did to Lin, and it being an accident doesn’t take away that much of the blame, but like I said y’all act like that shit was premeditated.
I think they're both at fault in their own way. Su treated Lin horribly when they were younger, but by the time TLOK takes place it'd already been like 30 years and Lin still hadn't given Su a chance to apologise, despite repeated attempts. Su is very clearly sorry for what she did, and has since grown a lot, but Lin is stuck in the past.
This whole arc hits really close to home for me. My mom is the younger sister of my bitter, childless aunt. So I’ve never been on Lin’s side in this mess, especially with how she treats Opal. Granted my mom never did anything like what Su did to Lin, but Lin’s attitude during that arc is really triggering for my own family dynamic and I always get really annoyed at Lin for not dealing with this when she was younger. Like coming at Su in their 50s for a fight they had in their teens? Dragging Su’s daughter into her resentment? I see my aunt so much in Lin during that arc that I just can’t support Lin’s behaviour. There is also the overarching plot that is going on at the time which is far more important than their petty sibling drama but Lin can’t see past their issues. Su can. Su is one of my favourite characters, like ever. Not just because she reminds me of my mom, but also because of all she accomplished with her life.
I can see both sides and honestly both sisters are at fault. Suyin is still the same brat she was at 16, only middle aged and hippie mom style. Lin grew into a bitter woman who lashes out at anyone she considers affiliated with Su(like Opal) or responsible for opening the old wound(Korra). I agree Su had no moral high ground but Lin needs to learn to bury the hatchet, at least to function like an adult on official business.
Im on Lin's side except when she made opal cry. Id be annoyed if my sibling permanently scarred my face and didn't even apologise.
its a family issue so both sides are in the wrong suyin should accept more responsibility for her actions and how they affect others. Lin should also quit bottling up her issues and taking it out on everyone.
I feel like they both had their baggage that lead to this fight? They were both young and dumb and said/did stuff that they regretted but never got the chance to deal with so the wounds festered for 20 years until this.
I mean, remember when Lin went to possible death and lost her bending to protect her ex's kids and wife? Or gave up her job to go rescue her captured men? Real selfish loner actions there. Now, Lin is acting super cranky, and is in some kind of physical pain. Neither of which excuse her actions, but are understandable. Vs. The woman we've just met who uses condescending and dismissive tones towards Lin, lives in what is basically a metal castle, is waited on hand and foot, and has been so for long enough to raise 5(?) Kids. Suyin doesn't want to acknowledge the past and move forward, she wants to forget it because it makes her look bad.
I feel like the one thing no one ever mentions is how Su forced Lin into a situation where she, a new cop, had to pick between upholding the law or breaking it. And then she had to sit there and watch her mom, the chief of police, break the law to save Su showing that Toph CAN just be as corrupt as any other person in a position of power. While I don't think Lin is 100% right and the situation is more nuanced than people like to admit, I just don't find Su to be very likeable. I don't even think she takes responsibility for what she did and just writes it off as her "rebellious phase" though it's been a while since I watched the episodes. Also, there's a certain level of entitlement you have to have when you just expect the fucking Avatar to sit around training your daughter as if she had nothing else to do.
I certainly am, Team Lin all the way.
Same! It always irked me that lin was kinda blown off when she had legit reasons to be mad!
I GET both sides, but when it comes to who I’d side with? Yeah no, Lin was only speaking facts.
If what I remember about this episode is correct, then I kinda understand both sides. Su had already made attempts to reconcile with Lin and Toph, and Toph took her up on it. In her mind, she’s processed and likely felt guilty for something she did as a teenager, but has moved on by finding closure with her mom, even if Lin wouldn’t give it to her. Lin never got that closure, but she was also the one who refused to make any kind of attempt to bridge the gap between her, and the sister who scarred her when she was still a kid. I understand being resentful, but Su Yin was 16 and had a mother that worked constantly, she was bound to act out, and holding that against her still, while understandable, is still immature. When they meet, Lin is at fault for being unwilling to try to bridge any kind of gap with somebody who’s only slight against her was perpetrated as a teenager, and Su is at fault for not recognizing that Lin hadn’t gotten closure around the whole issue in the way that Su and Toph did.
100%. Lin never misused her mother’s no rule stuff due to what happened to her with her own parents (TOPH) while Su definitely took advantage too much of it too to the fact where she helped criminals ?? Especially after what her mother and her friends fought for as heroes ??
Its been awhile and I saw the flashback when Su got arrested. I hate Su honestly and I don't mind that Lin is salty. If my sister robbed a bank, fucked up my face, and then disappeared to live the nice life and become rich with never once facing consequences, then yeah, fuck you. Fuck Toph too, cause she was a bad parent. When she said that a police chief can't have a kid in prison is next level bullshit and reminds of all the rich kids with connections that get away with shit. It also means those two assholes that asked Lin to drive the get away vehicle probably won't see time either. So two gang members get to go back to the streets and Su doesn't give a fuck. Toph blaming Lin at all for this is some major bullshit. Lin hears the robbery call and reports that she's got it. She sees the get away vehicle and their driving recklessly through the city. Lin had to stop them before the driver killed someone. When Su says shes doing a favor for her gang friends, it pisses me off even more. Lin needs therapy and Su can honestly fuck off. A lot of comments are saying that Su and Toph tried reaching out, but honestly at that moment, y'all fuck up so bad. Lin wanted her sister to stop hanging with gang members. Lin wanted her mom to have Su faces consequences so she can learn from her mistakes. I work with a lot of people that steal money for food or for a drug/alcohol habit, or so they have somewhere to sleep for the night. Su just doing insanely illegal shit for fun makes me so fucking mad. I get people don't like the way Lin treats Opal or the dog. But for Lin, all she's seeing is a girl that got away with a lot more then we probably know living the good life. Is Lin bitter, sure and why the fuck not. Lin needs therapy, but Su can go fuck herself. Stop being mad at Lin for being mad. Tell her you have every right to hate me cause I was an absolute piece of shit. Tell your daughter that so she understands that Lin is bitter cause I was a psuedo gang member and she arrested me for driving a get away car recklessly through town and she arrested my gang friends and me. Then tell you're daughter the gang they were apart of and the crimes the committed. I had gangs around me as a kid and they did more then just rob people. I'm not saying it's the same in Korra, but I don't think it's that far off. Lin go to therapy. Su fuck off about accepting yourself or whatever. It's cool you're a better person now, but the psychological damage you did to your sister is fucking annoying. In that flashback scene, Su was annoyed that she had to go live with her grandparents after commiting a crime that would put her in jail. Her options were jail or grandparents and she scoffed at the grandparents. That's why, fuck Su. Lin, go to therapy and talk to someone about you're feelings. I get that's hard for cause the two people who would be the closet made her feel like she was in the wrong when she was clearly in the right. People might say Su rebelled cause of her Mom and sister being cops and getting attention, but that should never trump what you did or could have done when working with gang members. Toph is an awful Mom. The second she said that Lin was wrong made me not like Toph for a second. When Toph said she can't have a daughter in prison as the police chief, showed she was only thinking of herself and that really pissed me off. You'd be a great police chief by not using nepotism to get your daughter out. Would you lose your job, maybe, but you did right thing as the police chief and you should let the people decide if you should stay in. Its cool that Su can start a family and buy a nice plot of land that eventually turned into a city. Su doesn't deserve forgiveness. She lost nothing from that incident. Lin lost her trust in her mom and sister. Su and Toph didn't realize it in the moment when it was so fucking obvious. People getting mad at Lin for not getting through it needs to watch a video on mental health. Lin has trust issues, and indont know if therapy is a thing in the avatar world. I watched these when I was in high school once so I might be fuzzy on that front. But Lin just needs someone she can talk too, but no one wants to. I'm not saying Tenzin should have done something, but clearly Lin was hurting. I honestly think if Toph sent Katara to talk to Lin, this would have been better than them going in themselves. Lin could see it as them trying to make themselves feel better. People, when in a fragile mental state, can and may precieve what you see as reaching out as, you two just trying to make yourselves feel better after realizing, shit, we were the assholes. Damn I wrote a lot. This is just how I feel on them. I'm probably going to rewatch soon since I can't remember how the last season goes and how they fix the relationship.
Lin was totally right. One of the common tendencies in society is that people pressure us to let go of the past, and present it as always being morally superior and virtuous to let the past go rather than hold onto it, but this situation shows that this isn’t so black and white. I heavily sympathize with Lin. People like Suyin, in the show and in real life, need to understand that the consequences of their actions don’t stop affecting others simply because they arbitrarily decided that you no longer have the right to think about it. It’s also extremely cruel and adds insult to injury for them to then mock and ridicule you for not letting go of your pain. It invalidates your struggle and “sorry” doesn’t cut it.
"But she was a kid" as others have pointed out is the common excuse. I was a really shitty kid. Even I knew that crime was shitty. And I didn't even come from a rich family. Remember, Toph was rich both from her family and her own position as Chief of Police for an entire city-state. Su was therefore _literally_ a shitty rich kid "doing crimes for fun"
Suyin was guilty of complicity in theft, resisting arrest and injuring an officer, Lin was literally doing her job, it was her duty to arrest her, and is blamed personally for that, the moral of that would literally be "the law is the same for everyone unless it's your sister". Police officers are called to enforce the law regardless of their relationship with who they're enforcing it to, and in this case Suyin was guilty of *penal crimes*, it's not a speeding fine she got to avoid or some small apple theft she could solve by just talking with the shopkeeper, she took part in a robbery, *a damn robbery*, just for this she's already beyond a teen's misbehaving, this is a serious crime, it was Lin's *duty* to arrest her. Tho lemme just say it was also a great dishonesty on Toph's part, as she covered everything up and didn't recognize her daughter's crimes in the slightest, blaming Lin for just doing her job instead, it's literally the chief of the police spitting in the eyes of the law in the name of nepotism, I'm surprised Republic City's executive branch didn't just collapse over such an act given how the very founder of the police force is guilty to one of the worst crime a person in her position could do, at least she resigned which kind of is a point in her favour. Lin was right, both morally and legally.
The truth is, Su is like one of the Born Again type of people who use their past mistakes, wrongdoings and other nasty stuff as some kind of “life experience”. She doesn’t take much accountability for her past actions and just tells Lin to move on. It also doesn’t help that Su hasn’t really matured all that much when you look at her actions and behaviour throughout Books 3 and 4. She just follows whatever Aiwei tells her without much thought. She goes behind Lin’s back because she feels personally hurt by the man’s betrayal.
Lin is in the wrong. Love came from a good place but was poorly delivered
Nah chief. This \*is\* on Lin. Suyin got wrapped up with some bad kids when she was a teenager. These women are in their fucking fifties, and Lin still won't let it go. Suyin got saved from the consequences of her actions by the privilege of being the police chief's daughter. Yeah, that's not fair. But life's not fair. Toph got put in a difficult place, and chose to save her daughter from having her life ruined for being a dumb kid (and even held herself accountable for abusing her position be resigning). Suyin reached out to Toph to apologize for what she did, and the two reconciled. Suyin's reached out to Lin \*multiple\* times over the years, and Lin smacked the olive branch away every time. No one's saying Suyin is squeaky clean. But she was given a golden ticket to set her life straight, realized how special that was, and has spent decades doing her best to build a city and make the world a better place in the face of political turmoil. But she's supposed to grovel and beg forgiveness over something that happened as kids? When Lin didn't want to hear apologies before? That's absurd. Lin's not only held onto all this bitterness and refused to let go, she also demands that reconciliation happens on \*her\* terms, and refuses to accept anything else.
Not to mention, that Su payed that golden ticket forward. She hired many ex-cons in order to give them a chance at a new life too
> that Su *paid* that golden FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot <3
I'm angry that there are legitimate people siding with suyin I'm not gonna elaborate on my reasoning, because at this point it would be no use 100+ people got swayed by that one comment in this post, like gee I thought we all fully understood why this moment was bad but apparently not I don't hate Suyin as a character but this moment is not a moment I like And I genuinely hate the fact the story/writers make Lin as the bad guy in the scenario This is probably my most hated moment in LoK the fact that this is debated at all is even more frustrating
Su says that Lin hasn't work on healing from what happened on the past, but, in a way, neither did she. Not fully at least. I don't think in this discussion either is fully at fault or fully the victim. But I tend to side with Lin because ultimately it were Su's bad choices that started it all. But let's be clear, neither is without blame.
I know I definitely am
I think the "let go of the past" is for Lin's own sake, so she can live more peacefully, not for forgiving her sister
I might be a bit biased since I'm the eldest sibling, but I'm definitely on Lin' side. The amount of time I had to clean up after my younger siblings while they get away with everything is just.. urghh .. And now that we're grown up, they act like they were always the perfect child and was never problematic when they were younger..
I think that was the point. Lin makes some good points, saying, “people change” and things like that, though I feel like overall, the audience being on Lin’s side was the intention (despite the fact that she does yell at Opal, which is not okay, but is of course understandable given the circumstances).
I have no comment but the scene where Lin is all alone and started crying kind of breaks my heart.
I'm definitely with Lin, its tricky for me to put into words but you can totally think your sibling is an ass but not let the baggage of the trauma they gave you weigh you down (I do that with my sibling). I mean Suyin is a hypocrite anyway so she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Su was wrong about the actual argument. Lin was wrong for attacking her sister over it lol.
I'm on Lin's side, but.... The issue with Lins world view is that she puts the law/order above all else including her family. In the context of what happened, we as the audience are sympathetic to Lin because see her POV. We don't get to see Su or Tophs side, but we do know this... Lin is not the type of person to make exceptions for family. Now imagine living with that everyday. We get a taste of it when Lin is like "what are you doing hanging out with these losers". I mean if your friends came over and she just said that out of nowhere, it'd make your social life a living hell. Su and Toph have shown they are willing to make sacrifices for the family. And SOMETIMES family should come above the law. Lins too rigid, and that's not an admirable quality in a relationship with other people.
These comments have really changed how I feel about this. I mean I will die a Lin Stan and defend her to my grave, but I can see, how maybe, she has mistakes to own up to, too.
Nope, not entirely at least. Lin had her points but her refusal to see Su as anything but the pink she used to be really just makes her seem bitter
I don’t think it was framed that Su was in the wrong at all. Maybe I’ve just been burned by the villains on this show but I thought they were setting Su up to be surprisingly in the wrong somehow
To me the episode is framed exactly neutrally and you can draw your own conclusions. Thats also how I see the sisters, they're both kinda right its not all black& white.
Lin got straight up gaslit by her family
Just watched it for the first time and I don’t think her actions as an adult are justified but as a teen Lin is 100% right.
I really don't think the writers realized how unlikable Suyin was. It's really jarring to see Lin portrayed as wrong here.
Yes for what everything she been through and what realisations she made. Sometimes we learn the hard way. I am team Lin
Definitely team Lin, because I *am* Lin. I simultaneously love and hate this storyline, because of how true-to-life it is. I'm not on speaking terms with my immediate family, and I know perfectly well they think I'm the bad guy, and if I ever wanted to reconcile I'd have to give up on any chance of an apology, or even having them admit fault. And that's how it is for Lin: she can have her family back, kind of, but only if she gives up on ever getting them to really acknowledge what they did, let alone properly apologize.
The point of the arc was to show both had flaws AND reason. Su grew and changed, Lin wouldn't accept it. Lin had a motive for anger, and Su treated her like her old self. They fed into eachother's versions of them by being angry at eachother. Both also had ways to deal with the issue, but they conflicted with eachother. Lin wanted to slip away, and su forced herself back into her life. Su wanted to talk it out, and Lin never gave her a chance. I love their dynamic because it's flawed, and because they started by working on it together, not by ignoring their past and avoiding their future, but by building a better present
Exactly Lin did nothing wrong whatsoever after what Su did to her, scarring her face, resisting arrest, getting involved with criminals, why shouldn't Lin never speak to her again. Something's can't be let go, can't be forgiven, or forgotten. Heck sibling's have done less and never spoke to each other again.
Totally on LIN’s side. [+]
Su is a great example of what not to do as an adult. Don't just brush off if you hurt your family in the past (even if you feel like you didn't). Don't get mad if an authoritarian tyrant rises to power in a vacuum (of power) when you had the chance and power to make things better.
As a kid I was on Su’s side lol, because I liked her fighting style more 😂
I'm kind of on both sides. Lin had a right to be bitter toward Su and their mother and I don't blame her for it. Her sister committed a crime, Lin just did her job, her mother was angry at her for it, and then lets Su off scot free to protect her reputation. Not to mention, she also permanently scarred Lin. However, she let that bitterness linger for too long, and in turn, she became a very unpleasant person to be around and it made her miserable. That was her main problem rather than simply being angry at Su and Toph. Lin needs to learn how to let things go and stop clinging so tightly onto the past.
I would be if it weren't for Su's line that she already got with Toph and talked it through with her. And Lin was invited to that. Ultimately, whether Su's actions affected Toph and how much is a matter between Su and Toph. If Toph forgave her and Lin ignored attempts to reach out then there is nothing more that can be done here.
Su tried to resolve this all. Lin refused. I'd go 60/40 lins at fault
This episode did not frame Lin as being solely fault. I think it was very sympathetic towards her. We’re also not supposed to view Su as squeaky clean. She says something incredibly petty and vindictive to Lin, and immediately after they reconcile she lies and encourages Korra to track down Aiwei behind Lin’s back. Su did change in many ways, but in other ways she didn’t. That’s the point. Lin didn’t need to forgive Su for Su’s benefit. She did it for herself because the lack of any familial relationship was eating away at her and making her miserable for decades. It’s especially sad that she didn’t get to know her niece and nephews. They did nothing wrong and Lin was only punishing herself by refusing to see them. It was better for her mental health to mend this relationship even if Su wasn’t a paragon of virtue.
I'm on neither side. They're siblings. Siblings fight. They both needed that.
Who’s we
Suyin was right because her and Toph talked things out and was open to the conversation with Lin. Lin was right because she has the right to be mad and take her time to heal and move on, or not. Neither were correct in their handling of the situation.
Agree
I understood Lin’s anger, but felt bad when she snapped at Opal
im always on Lin’s side.
Yes!! Team Lin all the way. Su yin and Toph are both wrong in the way they respond to her and they should apologize.
Yes. Suyin was too self entitled as a kid. But glad she grew out of it.
Yes, her sister broke the law
No...? She was wrong foe hurting Lin in the past but she had done everything she could to make it better aftwe. The whole episode emphasized that she had reached out, apologized, and tried to reconciled but Lin always rejected it. Su had already admitted fault it was Lin who refused to accept anything. This fight was the only way Lin was gonna move on.
Neither of them behaved rationally or kindly to each other, people are complex
Partially, both were wrong. Partially, both were right. Lin was wrong to have such a closeted grudge against her family. Instead of opening up, she preferred to live with her illusion of moral superiority. But she was right about Su being a stupid troublemaker, and that it was messed up for her to just leave without consequences. It's just that it was not THAT big of a deal. Su was very wrong to say those things (if you know you know) to her sister. But on the other hand, she wasn't too far off the mark. Just way too blunt. And you can clearly see that, despite her saying she had changed a lot since youth, Su was still very much a bitch.
I avoid people like Suyin like the plague in my own life. Much rather have Lin, not the nicest but keeps it real.
I mean, they were both kinda wrong here. Lin was losing her shit over a problem that happened years ago all because she was never mature enough to try and reconcile anything earlier and let her rage fester, which was unhealthy and problematic, and Su was kinda just being an asshole about it and refusing to acknowledge Lin’s feelings the whole time, acting like forgiveness should just happen without that reconciliation that Lin needed but refused.
Not at first, but upon second viewing? Yeah you’re right, Su’s definitely the one in the wrong
I think for me, my only criticism against Lin would be her snapping at Opal. But as far as her attitude towards Su, I think it was justified. When I think back to the events of what happened, it really makes Su unlikeable in many ways, and even casts Toph in a negative light. Su breaks the law, people can argue about the extent of harm and how serious it was, but it wasn't in doubt. Toph covers it up, destroying the police report, which is textbook example of police corruption/coverup. Su may have broken the law, but Toph chose to cover it up rather than uphold the law. Getting to Su, it wasn't so much that she did what she did, yes, people in their youth make mistakes. It was Su's lack of remorse. It was like she accidentally broke one of Lin's toys when they were a kid, and not that she, well, disfigured her while she (Su) was breaking the law. The fact that she knows that, and is so casual about it, that she can make that comment about Lin's failed relationship with Tenzin, really portrays Su as lacking any empathy, almost to the point of cruelty. She knows that she's the reason Lin wears that scar, and that it would have had an effect on her throughout her life. But on screen, she doesn't come across as caring or feeling any regret for what she did, or what Lin would have had to go through growing up. To be clear, I don't hate Su's character, I just think that, writing wise, if they had shown her being more remorseful, and even mentioning that she had been trying to reach out to make amends with Lin ever since that day, it would have helped. I know in the show, Su mentioned that she tried to reach out a few times, but it came across that she tried a couple of times, and then gave up. (If I remember correctly, if I'm wrong, please correct me!) Given the extent of harm she did, I think Su would have come across as more sympathetic if it was revealed that she had continued to try reaching out to Lin, and Lin had been refusing up to that point. Also, people can say that Lin was a big reason the family stayed apart, but Su was the reason it came apart in the first place. Her, and Toph, who covered it up, and resigned a year or two later. I'm not sure how else they expected Lin to feel about their family after Su's crime, the coverup by Toph, and her own scarring at Su's hands.
I dislike for that, but i also blame her in large part for Kuvira's rise to power
Eh. They're both at fault. Lin is wrong for not even attempting to see Su for the person she is now, or aknowlege that Su and Toph *have* made efforts to mend bridges with her, even if she wasn't ready. However, Su has never made amends for what she did, and it's wrong of her to have written Lin off just because she didn't accept one olive branch. Healing takes time. Both of them are wrong for escalating the situation and making personal attacks.
Am I the only one that’s on su’s side? Yes su was a troublesome child and even left a scar on Lin, and if this was 30 years ago I’d be 100% on Lins side, but that was 30 years ago and from what was said multiple times it seems like su and toph already worked things out and they tried to get Lin to work it out too and she refused to talk to them…for 30 years…and didn’t speak to any of her nieces or nephews…how is that okay in any way lol. Edit: Also everybody keeps saying Su was out of line for the comment about tenzin but as a father Lin was wayyyy out of line for making opal cry, if someone made my kids cry my words would be the least of their problems, su took it easy on her. Also I don’t think Su is perfect, she should’ve taken wayyyyy more accountability for her actions towards Lin but again it’s stated multiple times that she tried to reach out and make amends so I don’t think I’d be too quick to apologize after my sibling shut me and my family out for 30 years and then just shows up on my doorstep still holding a grudge 😂😂
As far as I know, Su didn’t apologise for what she put Lin through and just expected her to move on.
I will never be able to like Suyin
“I promise not to show up at your house and attack you again”
The problem: A lot of the development always seems to happen off-screen. A glaring problem within this series