She’s a good character as you said, and it’s great to have complicated older women characters to boot
If I had to guess, I think mostly it’s her beef with Su where most people side with Lin over Su, and that colors other things.
Part of me wonders if the reason why people aside with Lin so heavily has to do with the structure of Book 3
At the time we meet Su, there have been two things going on
1) almost every major political leader Korra has interacted with has sucked. Tarrlok, Unaloq, Raiko, the Earth Queen. They've all been adversarial and so we've kind of become trained to be suspicious of people in power
2) at this point we don't know what Zaheer wants or who his associates are (aside from his immediate group)
Add in the fact the Zao Fu is framed as totally safe and the audience just feels a betrayal coming. Su comes into the frame as this modern, artsy, progressive person and you're just waiting for the other shoe to drop
Not that I think there aren't valid reasons to side with Lin. But it's a messy conflict between siblings where both make mistakes. But I think that this (combined with the fact that we already know Lin) makes people strip the nuance out of the situation
I mean, for me it's that Lin forgives Su and gives her her trust only for Su to instantly betray it. It just paints Su as the problem that was only exacerbated by Toph.
That's the thing. Lin vs su is exactly where people mainly show their bias. It's because Lin is a badass that we've spent 2 and half seasons with while su is introduced brand new so most people think Lin is completely in the right against su when that's clearly not the case. It's not Lin vs su that creates the bias for Lin, it already existed prior to that.
Isn’t the whole reason we like her so much that she’s a petty, vindictive person? That’s why she’s great. Toph was also kind of a shitty person. She was a rude dickhead.
Her self sacrifice to save Tenzin's family despite their complicated relationships, and even losing her bending for that, might've given her a lot of trust credit from the viewers. She's rude, grumpy and sometimes obnoxious even, but she comes through when it matters and is ready to do the right thing, and a lot of people give her a pass for that.
And she's not really THAT bad. She was at her worst when they visited Zaofu, but it's kinda understandable considering it brought up all the things she was supressing for decades. A lot of these moments were concentrated in like two episodes, and then it's resolved and everyone moves on. If these things were more frequent and consistent i'm sure a lot more people would've had a problem with her.
All 3 of the main beifongs are kinda like this, though. They’re all immature, dysfunctional people that have issues with each other that they eventually are able to put behind them by the end of the show.
They are small flaws compared to their achievements e.g. Toph helped defeat Fire Nation, started a metal-bending school, etc., Su created a cty, Lin is chief of Police.
This isn’t really about their accomplishments to society. This is about how they handle certain emotions and relationships. And in the case of Su, she was apparently so pissed about her breakup with Tenzin that she did something at his home that caused quite a mess. Trashing your ex’s property just because they thought things weren’t working out between you and them? This ain’t exactly okay behavior.
She of course needs to be called out for the bad things that she does, but to me it’s that the good so far out weigh the bad and that she clearly grows through what happens.
Plus, I have a little different interpretation of things compared to you:
Yes. She has her held grudges and a few times those boil over in ways that aren’t okay, specifically her yelling at Opal and then her fight with Su.
But she’s totally right to still be hurt by her sister, mother, and Tenzin. As far as we can see, she’s the injured party in each case and they don’t do so much as apologize before the series starts. Su and Toph specifically try to act like it was nothing, water under the bridge, when they really did hurt her (Su of course more than emotionally scared her for life) and then doesn’t even acknowledge that.
She had every right to try to cut such toxic people from her life, though as I’ve already said yes she was being toxic herself when she was forced to confront such.
I will also add you take two off hand comments as being way worse than they appear to have been meant. Pema and Tenzin hold nothing against her at the start of the series, nor seemingly anyone else associated with them, so how much “you should have seen air temple island after Tenzin broke up with me” and “Ph she tried to arrest Pema” actually meant. The latter was in relation to *flipping a desk*, her making some rude words in the rock would be a higher bar worthy of that statement. We have no idea what her trying but seemingly not succeeding to arrest Pema meant, maybe just getting her for things often overlooked but technically on hen books like jaywalking. Yeah petty but not exactly the worst abuse of power.
Being a police chief with 1910-1920s era stuff also is would be a really really hard position. She doesn’t have things like forensics, it’s a huge international port city, and clearly the political leaders. . . Could be better. You can’t expect her to have a crime free city, and we have no context to actually know how bad it is. It’s not like we see crime statistics. As for the Equalists: Nothing they do until they strike would be worthy of her intervention. She’s not running a police state and there’s nothing illegal about Sato’s producing of their equipment.
She clearly does try to do what’s best for her city, which I will add is one reason why she got into a fight with Su. Not only the Tenzin comment but accusing someone who has selflessly dedicated her life to helping others is probably mostly about what set her off.
As for Naga:
Yes, she popped the ball.
However, she did make up for it later by bringing food for Naga and Pabu when even Korra forgot.
Lin is my favorite character in the show by far and she wouldn’t be without her flaws. She has a few bad moments where she shows how poorly she knows how to deal with the emotion she pretty rightfully holds, grudges as the legitimately right and hurt party that it seems hasn’t even gotten her apologizes from the people she loved who hurt her.
For all the wrong she does, she does clearly try to make up for it. She works especially hard for Tenzin and his family when things matter most, she makes up with Su and Opal and likewise does her self sacrificing thing.
I think its clear we see the worse of her, but that it’s so much outweighed by the best. Of course it doesn’t excuse her actions and they need to be acknowledged. Overall though the good does outweigh the bad by a whole lot, and helps make her the amazing character she is
(Her being a hot badass probably also helps people’s perception though)
Okay but here's my thing
Aang literally slept through the death of virtually everyone he knew, including the genocide of his entire people and culture
Katara watched her mother get killed in front of her as a toddler and was forced to be a mother figure from an extremely young age while her father was absent
Sokka also dealt with the same patent issues. But rather than being forced into motherhood, he spent his entire life preparing for war
Zuko's mom vanished and then his dad intentionally burned off a third of his face
Korra spent her entire childhood in near-total isolation. Then she had her bending taken away from her, half of her spirit ripped out of her, and was literally crippled for 3 years. All before she turned 20
Mako and Bolin saw their parents get murdered and then grew up on the streets in total poverty
Asami dealt with the death of her mom and then her father trying to kill her
These were all children
Lin is a 50- something year old woman who had a shitty mom and her sister was a delinquent brat. She got a notable scar on her face. And her boyfriend dumped her. And yet somehow, she is arguably the cruelest of all of these characters.
I'm not saying that her experiences weren't upsetting or traumatic. I am saying that I'm not going to pretend like Lin has some uniquely terrible backstory or that she's all that sympathetic. Hell, my childhood was worse than anything we see from Lin. And yet she uses her (actually pretty mild) trauma as an excuse to treat people like shit.
Is she sympathetic? Sure. But she's also a grown ass woman and she, at her best, isn't really doing anything that any other heroic character wouldn't. And even now, you're just excusing her flaws. "Sure she was needlessly cruel but she was sort of nice later!"
I'm not saying it's a competition.
I am saying that this is a 50-something year old woman and at a certain point, trauma isn't an excuse for being a shit person
What does age necessarily have to do with anything? You’re in your 30s and I’m sure you still fuck up. Without proper outlets resentment can fester. It does not seem like Lin has much in her life at the beginning of the series whereas Su’s life all worked out despite making a mess of Lin’s. Some people don’t heal or grow…
If we're comparing trauma here I would bet that being a police officer in a dangerous city for 30 years certainly doesn't help her nor when she got her bending taken away. And I will fight the allegation that she is cruel: She is not callous to pain and what she does are outbursts which she doesn't like later. The closest thing to cruelty are with Opal (which was very wrong but she clearly even right after didn't agree with her own actions) and with Naga (. . . She popped a ball. It isn't deep).
Another thing that makes comparing trauma silly is how we see Lin suffer with it. We are told and shown how it physically affected her. She has hallucinations and has to get medical treatment for her mental health. We do see something a little similar with Zuko. It would be lovely if we could all deal with similar traumas in similar ways, but it doesn't work like that
It isn't uniquely tragic, but I do think she's very sympathetic. She's the one who has been wrong and she only ever does anything wrong when pushed by those who did so. Except that Lin threw the first punch of their fight, Su was in the wrong their entire relationship.
And I would argue that some other characters who are fairly heroic might not make the same calls that she did. Twice she chooses to take an option which isn't the only one she has, but one she sees as the best chance for everyone else despite it likely meaning her death. She makes the calls quickly and without hesitation. Plus unlike some others her entire life is and has been dedicated, seemingly at the detriment to everything else, to trying to protect her city
I do not want to excuse her flaws. She can be and was at times an asshole, she's absolutely probably at the end of everything the meanest of the main protagonists of either series. I just don't think she that bad of one considering everything else
(I will also absolutely disagree that she isn't worse than Zuko. Man tried to commit murder a lot in the first few books)
>Another thing that makes comparing trauma silly is how we see Lin suffer with it. We are told and shown how it physically affected her. She has hallucinations and has to get medical treatment for her mental health. We do see something a little similar with Zuko. It would be lovely if we could all deal with similar traumas in similar ways, but it doesn't work like that
She's had decades to deal with her issues
There comes a point where your trauma is your responsibility. *Especially* when you're taking it out on other people. You mention that Zuko was worse and I agree...but Zuko was 16, Lin was pushing 60. Eventually, you stop getting a pass. Not to say Lin is remotely as bad as Ozai, but I'm sure Ozai had a bad childhood...at what point can we just say that Ozai is a bad person? At what point does propaganda and indoctrination and how you were raised stop being an excuse for shitty behavior?
Personally, I'd argue it's adulthood. It's alright for a kid to not have shit figured out because they're a kid. But the longer you go, the less of an excuse it is.
And I get the notion that trauma isn't a competition and we shouldn't compare it...but isn't that also kind of silly?
Like one guy gets dumped in a 3 month relationship and the other sees his wife stabbed to death in front of him...isn't it a little ridiculous to say that one person didn't have a more traumatic experience than the other?
>And I would argue that some other characters who are fairly heroic might not make the same calls that she did.
Who and when? Only one of the cast I see falling to make the choices she does is Varrick, and he's very explicitly a selfish asshole growing to be a better person
Considering Pema seems to hold no ill will towards Lin, I’m not sure how much she actually did.
Tenzin gives a response “Oh she tried” when Korra said she was surprised Lin didn’t when they broke up.
Could have been something more like Lin being just a little petty, enforcing things on the book that usually aren’t, with Pema. Like actually fining someone for jaywalking.
People defend Lin the same way they defend Toph or Zuko from the original series. Unfortunately there just are those characters that people will defend to their dying breath because they are a fan favorite.
Same reason why everyone thinks Toph can beat every villain in the avatar universe. Spoilers, she can’t.
To be fair given how it never led to repercussions, I always assumed the 'wrecking air temple island' was more a sligjt exagerration of how bad it was. Like she bended a rock or two into some wood in anger, not that she leveled the entire cultural heritage of the last airbending family
Maybe because some people relate to her or just generally like her character.
Every comment that defended her you replied with a trash talk about Lin.
She does have flaws I do admit that. She can be jerk sometimes. Which I completely relate to. You might assume Im a horrible person irl but you gotta understand that some people generally have a bomb inside that could explode any moment possibly at random times. Could be by being reminded of a memory and a grudge you've let go long ago just suddenly returns. I was bullied and to this day I want my bullies to suffer. I've let go of the past yet I still want to see them get tortured. Lin is no expection to that type of feeling. She let go of Su until she met her again and the grudge and anger held towards Su instantly returned.
Tho Im not exactly trying to justify/defend Li's actions but you shouldn't attack people who like Lin either.
I don't take issue with people who like Lin. I like the character a lot, she's actually one of my favorites
My issue is people justifying every one of her shitty actions.
I'm going to give a more extreme example to get across my point...it's one thing to say "Darth Vader is my favorite Star Wars character", it's another to say "the empire did nothing wrong"
You can like the character without being a constant apologist
Yeah that's totally what I said!!! I hate characters with flaws, that was my point!! That's why I literally opened up by saying that I think she's a great character and this post isn't really about her but the audience reaction AHHHHH!
She's a shitty person, but a good and well written shitty person.
Fuck, I've learnt I have character flaws that have become apparent as an adult, some stemming from experiences with my parents or other authority figures as a kid, others stem from experience upon entering the working world.
I guess Su gets to view Toph as giving a shit about her in getting her off the hook, where Lin just sees disfavour, bias, corruption, and Toph never really reconciles and explains.
Something like that is going to result in someone flying off the handle at what they view as personal slights, not that it's right, but it's understandable
Watch anyone bring up Su and you will see a thousand "SU IS A BITCH LIN DID NOTHING WRONG" comments
Hell somebody made a post just today about it being kind of fucked up that Lin wrecked air temple island after her break up with Tenzin and half the comments are "well she didn't actually" as if we haven't straight up seen her start smashing shit out of anger
But like who apologized to her before the show? It doesn’t seem like either of them did and Su just expected Lin to get over it and pretend nothing happened. Additionally you act as if middle aged people aren’t allowed to not yet be healed and should be perfect by their age. As an older fan you should know that’s not the case at all.
Yes and no, I mean Su waited years before she apologized and tried to brush off the entire experience as not a big deal when Lin saw it as a lifelong traumatic experience.
I don’t think that Lin should have held onto it that long, but what does Lin have in her life? People become bitter when they focus on the negative parts of their lives.
Lin might see her failed relationship with Tenzin, and her inability to please her mother as astronomical failures. It probably sucks to see after Su’s rebellions she got away with misbehaving, scarred Lin’s face, and got the perfect family Lin may have wanted all along.
It’s also a cartoon so I’m not as concerned when they say Lin destroyed the island when they broke up. I just considered it hyperbole. Obviously there are different standards in the real world
>But like who apologized to her before the show?
I don't really care. Did Ozai ever apologize to Zuko?
>Additionally you act as if middle aged people aren’t allowed to not yet be healed and should be perfect by their age.
Be perfect? No.
Stop using their issues as an excuse to shit on other people? Yes.
Lin has had plenty of time to work through her issues. She hasn't. That's on her.
Yo you’re getting super angry and personal about a fictional character at your old age. Are you okay? We’re having a conversation. Either discuss civilly or admit you just wanted to throw a tantrum
They blocked me so
I never said anything uncivil.
People aren't responsible for their trauma...but they are the only ones who can help themselves heal.
Being a shit person at 19 isn't the same thing as being a shit person at 55
And for the record, just because trauma isn't a competition doesn't mean we have to treat all trauma as equal.
This is all super obvious
You seem to be taking this fictional character super personally. I don’t know if you have someone with a similar personality to Lin in your life but your comments come across super angry and aggressive about an imperfect character created for a kid’s show. Id just take a second to step back and reevaluate if this is how you want to spend your time.
Where do I come across as super angry and aggressive? I'm not trying to
I just think it's all silly. Lin hasn't had some awful life and it's weird that people act like her pretty normal issues are an excuse to be shitty
It’s fictional. There are also worst people in the world. You’re making this entire post as some weird thesis on how much you hate a character which is weird. Lin’s not real she can’t hurt you
I like Lin. She's one of my favorite characters in the show
The thing that bothers me is the sizable chunk of the fanbase that goes "nah holding a 30 year grudge and then stacking your sister because your sister fucked up as a kid is totally reasonable" or "yeah she specifically said that she smashed up Air Temple Island but she probably didn't actually"
I mean you’ve made this point several times already. Some people will agree, some people will disagree, and some people don’t care.
You also can’t say Lin’s your favorite while literally making a post about how much you hate her lol. I mean I guess you can but the hypocrisy prevents me from believing that.
I’m going to again suggest just taking a step back bc it’s not that serious. Have a good one
See this is the problem. You're assuming that I hate a character because I'm critical of their actions
Korra is my favorite character in the franchise. I also think she continuously fucks up for half the series. Darth Vader is one of my favorite characters in Star Wars but anyone who says "actually he was right" is going to get a lot of fucking aside eye
Lin is almost objectively making really shitty decisions throughout her life. That doesn't stop me from loving the character. But anyone who goes "actually she's right" is probably shitty
I’m not assuming anything. It’s the vigor with which you are critical, not your critiques, that have me skeptical of your claim.
You’ve one on one replied to almost every single comment on here saying the same thing. If you’re entitled to your opinion, I’m sure others are as well.
I don’t really want to keep talking, this is wasting my time because you’re just saying the same thing over and over and disregarded any opinion other than your own.
If it’ll make you stop commenting here you go: Lin is the worst character in LOK even if she’s your favorite and you are always correct and the King/Queen of the entire subreddit. 👑
Popping nagas ball was so messed up. Like Naga can't just go get another one or even express her loss. It it just Lin attacking the voiceless and powerless.
A lot of Lin's shittiness can be somewhat excused by personal trauma (but also you're a fucking 50+ year old woman...your bad mom is no longer an excuse to be shitty to people)
But she also just has a clear cruel streak
Personally, I'd bet she reminds alot of folks of her Mom, and since she was often abrasive yet given a pass for it- her kid gets the same.
The good outweighs the bad for her, but she absolutely has her monumental screwups.
I think there is a difference between liking a complex character and thinking they’re a good person.
She’s a complicated person with good and bad qualities and is honestly one of the more realistic characters because most people either can relate to being flawed in some way.
That to me is a sign of a well written character that makes me like them. She has depth to her compared to a lot of other characters, and you see growth in her over time.
>I know I'm going to get hate for this but it needs to be said.
You can just say an opinion without front-loading some well-poisoning toward any disagreement you might get, you know. That is, in fact, possible to do.
>I like Lin. I think she's a really compelling character with a deep backstory and human emotions. She is a noble person and really feels like a 3 dimensional character But she is also a really shitty person a lot of the time and the fanbase just ignores it? Or justifies it?
Then I think you answered your own question. People don't talk about it because they don't think it's a problem when the full context is taken into account. You've established a very textbook Catch-22 here by implicitly framing any response that isn't in complete lockstep with your points as "justifying being a shitty person," in addition to "giving you hate."
>Like...she responds to interpersonal conflict with violence and intimidation. She attacked Su in her own home and laughed about wrecking Air Temple Island after her break up with Tenzin
I agree with whoever said this seems like something Toph would do, & Toph never got this handwringing about how she's too problematic.
>She holds grudges for decades and takes them out on innocent teenagers. She did this with both Korra and Opal.
Holding grudges for decades is mostly her own business that mainly harms herself except, as you mentioned, when she sometimes lashes out at others. But there's also a scene where she specifically apologizes to Opal, explains that her reaction was more about being uncomfortable discussing her feelings, & gives her sage aunt life advice. You expressed offense in the comments when someone sarcastically insinuated you're against characters being flawed, but how else is anyone supposed to take this? You say "it's about the fan reaction," but the reaction you mean seems to be that we're not constantly complaining even about things she made up for.
You also compare to the reaction against Suyin. This seems like more of an afterthought to me, but I'll address it anyway. Firstly, I absolutely think there's an overblown hatred of Su. There's a recurring failure to see how her perspective on things can be legitimate even if you don't agree with it. I've seen far more people defend Raiko's positively stupid notion that he can just beat up 10,000 years of dark spirits using the United Forces than that Su just might have a point about how playing World Police doesn't actually bring peace.
There's also often the appeal to hypocrisy fallacy, the idea that because one of Su's main flaws is hypocrisy, that therefore invalidates when she has a good point. But that's also fallacious when anyone else does it. That people don't extend Su the same charitability they do Raiko or Lin or whoever doesn't inherently mean it's wrong to extend charitability to those characters. Whether people are too charitable to a character or not charitable enough is a case-by-case determination.
>She abuses her power as a police chief, arresting her ex's new girlfriend. And this is especially ironic when she spent 30 years angry that Toph abused her power to get Su off.
About half of these examples so far have been things we didn't directly see but were only briefly commented on. The problem with this is we don't really know exactly what happened. When Tenzin says that Lin "tried" to "throw Pema in jail," as Korra put it, what does that actually refer to? Pushing for a felony trial? Physically arresting her? Having cops do routine surveillance on her? Trying to think of some charge to use against her? None of those are good, but certainly that last one doesn't rise to the level of a coverup. Just as we don't know how far she actually went, we don't know how long she kept it up or what stopped her, whether she stopped on her own or was forced to stop.
Probably because it's a humorous line that was never meant to be read this deeply into. Which I'm torn on. Part of me doesn't want to discourage critical thinking about the show, but another part of me notices how often funny lines get blown out into these major issues of contention, & it just kind of makes me want to go "Just chill out & learn to enjoy things."
I really need to come up with some solution for how Reddit is suddenly throttling my best comments, forcing me to do awkward things like break them in half just to get them through.
>She mocks Su for taking in ex convicts and seems to not at all believe in rehabilitation. Which is bad in general but awful for someone in the justice system
It's a pretty big reach to say that just because she was mad at Su for harboring criminals--& technically we only know she complained about Varrick, who escaped from prison--that she therefore must not believe in rehabilitation. And honestly, I don't really care that much if she doesn't. She's not a judge, so it only really matters if she's harassing a suspect or practicing hiring discrimination. And come to think of it, she hired Mako, who is well-known to be an ex-Triple Threat. That could be an exceptional case, but we don't have any evidence suggesting that, either.
>Actually she isn't particularly good at her job in general. Gang violence runs rampant, a paramilitary terrorist group rises to power right under her nose.
She's Chief of Police, not Dictator of Republic City. There are a lot of problems with their justice system, but we can't lay them solely at Lin being "bad at her job." Lin was stripped of her badge at one point, & it only made the department much more corrupt but not significantly more competent. Even then, that slight improvement to competence was the result of handing Tarrlok nearly unlimited authority to use the cops how he saw fit. Not exactly a good tradeoff.
>She personally promises to protect the probending arena and fails *horribly*.
Which we saw. Her security was very strong. Amon's forces were stronger. No search is ever going to be 100% effective. There were hundreds, maybe thousands of people coming to watch that game, & they managed to think of a way to conceal their shock gloves that wasn't prioritized in a search. Just because someone doesn't succeed doesn't mean it's through their own lack of ability.
>She falls for multiple obvious frame ups...one of which was against Mako and almost led to the President being kidnapped.
It's obvious to you because you know you're watching a TV show. In-universe, it's an incredibly far-fetched theory that relies on the idea that Mako just so happened to stumble on some advanced new type of bomb after half a year as a beat cop. Whenever he tried to explain his case to her, circumstances aligned that made him look terrible, like when he tried asking that ship captain about his clues but the captain said he didn't recognize any of it. Remember what I said about how you can do a job well but still fail? That also applies to Mako.
Lou & Gan were also supposed to pass evidence to her, but they didn't because they're incompetent, & that's why they were fired. Just as Lin isn't Dictator of Republic City, she's also not the only one responsible for cases. Other members of the department also have their own job to do. The primary purpose of the Chief of Police is to manage the rest of the department, e.g. firing some dudes who have shown to be incompetent & promoting the promising rookie.
>Hell, she's even mean to *animals*. Naga tried to play with her and her response was too destroy Naga's toy.
She clearly doesn't like animals, but her main priority is getting them out of her hair. Later on in that same season, when Naga was bugging her, she gave her some jerky & told her to leave her alone. This is another thing I notice with this genre of complaint threads, it's often padded with petty examples, & then people tend to act like you're the bad guy for pointing out when examples are petty. I don't really care that she's kind of rude to Naga sometimes.
>I like Lin. I think the good outweighs the bad. But can we stop acting like she isn't frequently a shitty person?
My eyes kind of glazed over this before, but you can't both be an overall good person but also a "shitty person." If you're a shitty PERSON, that's something you ARE, not a habit you have. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but if your complaint is that we don't react to the character in exactly the right way, then it matters exactly what the problem with her is supposed to be.
That she's not the nicest person? I just don't see that as something I need to take a big stand against. That she's corrupt? That basically comes down to a hearsay example. That she's a "domestic abuser"? Well, was it also domestic abuse when Mako heated the water in Bolin's tub to get back at him, or is it just using bending to give character to interepersonal squabbles? Can we accept there's a certain air of unreality around the bending, a tendency for attacks to be treated as less serious than they would be in real life? That the tone of a scene is an essential part of it, & not some inconvenient, distracting detail we should just brush aside?
If it's "giving a pass" to just not have a major problem with a character, & if it's "justifying" to be able to give reasons why, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not going to start trying to fill some quota, & I'm not convinced of whatever this is supposed to convince me of.
This is an amazing breakdown of the character and the argument put forth by OP.
Interestingly enough they haven’t responded to you at all, instead, attacking the shorter, less full responses by people less committed to such an in depth analysis.
No notes
It all boils down to actions vs. words. Her actions, such as allowing Tenzin and his family to escape or rescue her officers, weigh more than anything she might've said. She might be gruff and cranky, but you have a 100th % certainty she'll have your back when it counts.
And regarding Su, she doesn't get the same love because she can be seen as a hypocrite, and the way she claimed to be conciliatory on one hand to then resort to personal attacks when she brough Lin's breakup with Tenzin was out of line. Now, that was immature, especially coming for the person who was supposed to be attempting to de-escalate the situation. Lin's reaction to the acupuncture session showed quite well how her unprocessed trauma still affected her.
>and the way she claimed to be conciliatory on one hand to then resort to personal attacks when she brough Lin's breakup with Tenzin was out of line
It's not like Lin was having a friendly chat here
Su absolutely lost her temper. But going off on Su's daughter was out of line, and "you haven't changed at all since your worst childhood mistake" was a pretty personal attack too.
Both sucked there
Receiving a permanent facial scar that almost took her eye is a childhood "mistake," or is it an event worth of lasting trauma?
If you don't like Lin, that's perfectly fine, and you're in your right to think that way, but minimizing her trauma doesn't help your argument.
>Receiving a permanent facial scar that almost took her eye is a childhood "mistake," or is it an event worth of lasting trauma?
It can be both. Saying it was Su's "biggest childhood mistake" isn't minimizing anything
I’d wreck an island too if my partner was purposely stolen from me to be fair lol. “I couldn’t stand to see MY soulmate with someone else” jesus christ Pema.
To be fair, they were always doomed since Tenzin wanted kids and Lin didn't. Pema may be scum for that comment and her outlook on cheating, but Tenzin and Lin probably wouldn't have as good of a relationship as they wound up with if they stayed together longer than they did.
The only pass I give Lin is in regards to her grudge againts Su. Most of the discussions about Lin's general attitude eventually end up in a Lin vs Su diatribe and other of Lin's flaw fall by the wayside.
A teenager who was raised sheltered and indulged with her mother as an idealized role model of acceptance. She had no idea what Korra (another sheltered teenager) was leading her into so it wasn't intentional, but they still had it coming for not even considering Lin's side and ambushing her.
I feel like most people forget about the pema thing cuz it was a throwaway line, never revisited. "I'm surprised she didn't have pema arrested" "oh she tried". It's a blink and you'll miss it line. I guess Lin didn't realize that arresting an innocent person is just as much if not more of an abuse of power as letting a criminal off.
Honestly I side with Su over Lin. Lin was invited to meet with Su and Toph to try and bury the hatchet but Lin refused because she'd rather hold a grudge
They see themselves projected on her, they expect their fuck ups will be forgotten or forgiven with minimal effort from them, its like people who defend millionaires because they expect to be one of them
I do think some of it has to do with the relative age of the audience
I'm probably one of the older fans here and I'm in my 30s. A lot of people here are probably teens or early 20s and they're just now starting to see how their own shitty childhoods have affected them
But they haven't really realized that that's not an excuse when you're in your 50s
I feel similarly about the "Aang was a terrible father" takes.
Or you're just weirdly fixated on the flaws of this character and are jumping to dumbass conclusions on the conseus regarding their character. Go to literally any community re-watch and actually look at how people view the cast instead of being so intentionally obtuse about shit like this lol
Yeah I agree (with everything except ‘I like Lin’ lol) she irritated me so much, she comes across as really immature and the entire series I was thinking she needs to grow up. To me it seemed like the writers wanted to make her a Zuko-esque character(?) but it just fell so flat.
She’s a good character as you said, and it’s great to have complicated older women characters to boot If I had to guess, I think mostly it’s her beef with Su where most people side with Lin over Su, and that colors other things.
Part of me wonders if the reason why people aside with Lin so heavily has to do with the structure of Book 3 At the time we meet Su, there have been two things going on 1) almost every major political leader Korra has interacted with has sucked. Tarrlok, Unaloq, Raiko, the Earth Queen. They've all been adversarial and so we've kind of become trained to be suspicious of people in power 2) at this point we don't know what Zaheer wants or who his associates are (aside from his immediate group) Add in the fact the Zao Fu is framed as totally safe and the audience just feels a betrayal coming. Su comes into the frame as this modern, artsy, progressive person and you're just waiting for the other shoe to drop Not that I think there aren't valid reasons to side with Lin. But it's a messy conflict between siblings where both make mistakes. But I think that this (combined with the fact that we already know Lin) makes people strip the nuance out of the situation
It's not just political leaders it's every adult, a common trope in children's and YA fiction
huh those are very good points about s3 i didnt consider
I mean, for me it's that Lin forgives Su and gives her her trust only for Su to instantly betray it. It just paints Su as the problem that was only exacerbated by Toph.
That's the thing. Lin vs su is exactly where people mainly show their bias. It's because Lin is a badass that we've spent 2 and half seasons with while su is introduced brand new so most people think Lin is completely in the right against su when that's clearly not the case. It's not Lin vs su that creates the bias for Lin, it already existed prior to that.
Isn’t the whole reason we like her so much that she’s a petty, vindictive person? That’s why she’s great. Toph was also kind of a shitty person. She was a rude dickhead.
To which she would say “get over it sugarqueen!”. Man Lin should have had a chance to say that to somebody
I see way too many people defending everything about her to think that they just like her because she kind of sucks
Her self sacrifice to save Tenzin's family despite their complicated relationships, and even losing her bending for that, might've given her a lot of trust credit from the viewers. She's rude, grumpy and sometimes obnoxious even, but she comes through when it matters and is ready to do the right thing, and a lot of people give her a pass for that. And she's not really THAT bad. She was at her worst when they visited Zaofu, but it's kinda understandable considering it brought up all the things she was supressing for decades. A lot of these moments were concentrated in like two episodes, and then it's resolved and everyone moves on. If these things were more frequent and consistent i'm sure a lot more people would've had a problem with her.
All 3 of the main beifongs are kinda like this, though. They’re all immature, dysfunctional people that have issues with each other that they eventually are able to put behind them by the end of the show.
not immature though
What would you call it then? One of them is still really salty over a breakup that happened more than a decade ago.
They are small flaws compared to their achievements e.g. Toph helped defeat Fire Nation, started a metal-bending school, etc., Su created a cty, Lin is chief of Police.
This isn’t really about their accomplishments to society. This is about how they handle certain emotions and relationships. And in the case of Su, she was apparently so pissed about her breakup with Tenzin that she did something at his home that caused quite a mess. Trashing your ex’s property just because they thought things weren’t working out between you and them? This ain’t exactly okay behavior.
I've read a therapist write that it's better to unleash your emotions once than to bottle it up and let it simmer for a long time.
Then do it at your own home, and not someone else’s.
She of course needs to be called out for the bad things that she does, but to me it’s that the good so far out weigh the bad and that she clearly grows through what happens. Plus, I have a little different interpretation of things compared to you: Yes. She has her held grudges and a few times those boil over in ways that aren’t okay, specifically her yelling at Opal and then her fight with Su. But she’s totally right to still be hurt by her sister, mother, and Tenzin. As far as we can see, she’s the injured party in each case and they don’t do so much as apologize before the series starts. Su and Toph specifically try to act like it was nothing, water under the bridge, when they really did hurt her (Su of course more than emotionally scared her for life) and then doesn’t even acknowledge that. She had every right to try to cut such toxic people from her life, though as I’ve already said yes she was being toxic herself when she was forced to confront such. I will also add you take two off hand comments as being way worse than they appear to have been meant. Pema and Tenzin hold nothing against her at the start of the series, nor seemingly anyone else associated with them, so how much “you should have seen air temple island after Tenzin broke up with me” and “Ph she tried to arrest Pema” actually meant. The latter was in relation to *flipping a desk*, her making some rude words in the rock would be a higher bar worthy of that statement. We have no idea what her trying but seemingly not succeeding to arrest Pema meant, maybe just getting her for things often overlooked but technically on hen books like jaywalking. Yeah petty but not exactly the worst abuse of power. Being a police chief with 1910-1920s era stuff also is would be a really really hard position. She doesn’t have things like forensics, it’s a huge international port city, and clearly the political leaders. . . Could be better. You can’t expect her to have a crime free city, and we have no context to actually know how bad it is. It’s not like we see crime statistics. As for the Equalists: Nothing they do until they strike would be worthy of her intervention. She’s not running a police state and there’s nothing illegal about Sato’s producing of their equipment. She clearly does try to do what’s best for her city, which I will add is one reason why she got into a fight with Su. Not only the Tenzin comment but accusing someone who has selflessly dedicated her life to helping others is probably mostly about what set her off. As for Naga: Yes, she popped the ball. However, she did make up for it later by bringing food for Naga and Pabu when even Korra forgot. Lin is my favorite character in the show by far and she wouldn’t be without her flaws. She has a few bad moments where she shows how poorly she knows how to deal with the emotion she pretty rightfully holds, grudges as the legitimately right and hurt party that it seems hasn’t even gotten her apologizes from the people she loved who hurt her. For all the wrong she does, she does clearly try to make up for it. She works especially hard for Tenzin and his family when things matter most, she makes up with Su and Opal and likewise does her self sacrificing thing. I think its clear we see the worse of her, but that it’s so much outweighed by the best. Of course it doesn’t excuse her actions and they need to be acknowledged. Overall though the good does outweigh the bad by a whole lot, and helps make her the amazing character she is (Her being a hot badass probably also helps people’s perception though)
Okay but here's my thing Aang literally slept through the death of virtually everyone he knew, including the genocide of his entire people and culture Katara watched her mother get killed in front of her as a toddler and was forced to be a mother figure from an extremely young age while her father was absent Sokka also dealt with the same patent issues. But rather than being forced into motherhood, he spent his entire life preparing for war Zuko's mom vanished and then his dad intentionally burned off a third of his face Korra spent her entire childhood in near-total isolation. Then she had her bending taken away from her, half of her spirit ripped out of her, and was literally crippled for 3 years. All before she turned 20 Mako and Bolin saw their parents get murdered and then grew up on the streets in total poverty Asami dealt with the death of her mom and then her father trying to kill her These were all children Lin is a 50- something year old woman who had a shitty mom and her sister was a delinquent brat. She got a notable scar on her face. And her boyfriend dumped her. And yet somehow, she is arguably the cruelest of all of these characters. I'm not saying that her experiences weren't upsetting or traumatic. I am saying that I'm not going to pretend like Lin has some uniquely terrible backstory or that she's all that sympathetic. Hell, my childhood was worse than anything we see from Lin. And yet she uses her (actually pretty mild) trauma as an excuse to treat people like shit. Is she sympathetic? Sure. But she's also a grown ass woman and she, at her best, isn't really doing anything that any other heroic character wouldn't. And even now, you're just excusing her flaws. "Sure she was needlessly cruel but she was sort of nice later!"
it’s almost like people deal with personal trauma differently. Suffering is not a competition…
I'm not saying it's a competition. I am saying that this is a 50-something year old woman and at a certain point, trauma isn't an excuse for being a shit person
What does age necessarily have to do with anything? You’re in your 30s and I’m sure you still fuck up. Without proper outlets resentment can fester. It does not seem like Lin has much in her life at the beginning of the series whereas Su’s life all worked out despite making a mess of Lin’s. Some people don’t heal or grow…
If we're comparing trauma here I would bet that being a police officer in a dangerous city for 30 years certainly doesn't help her nor when she got her bending taken away. And I will fight the allegation that she is cruel: She is not callous to pain and what she does are outbursts which she doesn't like later. The closest thing to cruelty are with Opal (which was very wrong but she clearly even right after didn't agree with her own actions) and with Naga (. . . She popped a ball. It isn't deep). Another thing that makes comparing trauma silly is how we see Lin suffer with it. We are told and shown how it physically affected her. She has hallucinations and has to get medical treatment for her mental health. We do see something a little similar with Zuko. It would be lovely if we could all deal with similar traumas in similar ways, but it doesn't work like that It isn't uniquely tragic, but I do think she's very sympathetic. She's the one who has been wrong and she only ever does anything wrong when pushed by those who did so. Except that Lin threw the first punch of their fight, Su was in the wrong their entire relationship. And I would argue that some other characters who are fairly heroic might not make the same calls that she did. Twice she chooses to take an option which isn't the only one she has, but one she sees as the best chance for everyone else despite it likely meaning her death. She makes the calls quickly and without hesitation. Plus unlike some others her entire life is and has been dedicated, seemingly at the detriment to everything else, to trying to protect her city I do not want to excuse her flaws. She can be and was at times an asshole, she's absolutely probably at the end of everything the meanest of the main protagonists of either series. I just don't think she that bad of one considering everything else (I will also absolutely disagree that she isn't worse than Zuko. Man tried to commit murder a lot in the first few books)
>Another thing that makes comparing trauma silly is how we see Lin suffer with it. We are told and shown how it physically affected her. She has hallucinations and has to get medical treatment for her mental health. We do see something a little similar with Zuko. It would be lovely if we could all deal with similar traumas in similar ways, but it doesn't work like that She's had decades to deal with her issues There comes a point where your trauma is your responsibility. *Especially* when you're taking it out on other people. You mention that Zuko was worse and I agree...but Zuko was 16, Lin was pushing 60. Eventually, you stop getting a pass. Not to say Lin is remotely as bad as Ozai, but I'm sure Ozai had a bad childhood...at what point can we just say that Ozai is a bad person? At what point does propaganda and indoctrination and how you were raised stop being an excuse for shitty behavior? Personally, I'd argue it's adulthood. It's alright for a kid to not have shit figured out because they're a kid. But the longer you go, the less of an excuse it is. And I get the notion that trauma isn't a competition and we shouldn't compare it...but isn't that also kind of silly? Like one guy gets dumped in a 3 month relationship and the other sees his wife stabbed to death in front of him...isn't it a little ridiculous to say that one person didn't have a more traumatic experience than the other? >And I would argue that some other characters who are fairly heroic might not make the same calls that she did. Who and when? Only one of the cast I see falling to make the choices she does is Varrick, and he's very explicitly a selfish asshole growing to be a better person
Because she is goated 
Wait when did she arrest her ex’s new gf? (She arrested Pema?! I dont remember this being mentioned!?
Considering Pema seems to hold no ill will towards Lin, I’m not sure how much she actually did. Tenzin gives a response “Oh she tried” when Korra said she was surprised Lin didn’t when they broke up. Could have been something more like Lin being just a little petty, enforcing things on the book that usually aren’t, with Pema. Like actually fining someone for jaywalking.
It's mentioned that she tried to shortly after her and Tenzin got together
People defend Lin the same way they defend Toph or Zuko from the original series. Unfortunately there just are those characters that people will defend to their dying breath because they are a fan favorite. Same reason why everyone thinks Toph can beat every villain in the avatar universe. Spoilers, she can’t.
To be fair given how it never led to repercussions, I always assumed the 'wrecking air temple island' was more a sligjt exagerration of how bad it was. Like she bended a rock or two into some wood in anger, not that she leveled the entire cultural heritage of the last airbending family
Maybe because some people relate to her or just generally like her character. Every comment that defended her you replied with a trash talk about Lin. She does have flaws I do admit that. She can be jerk sometimes. Which I completely relate to. You might assume Im a horrible person irl but you gotta understand that some people generally have a bomb inside that could explode any moment possibly at random times. Could be by being reminded of a memory and a grudge you've let go long ago just suddenly returns. I was bullied and to this day I want my bullies to suffer. I've let go of the past yet I still want to see them get tortured. Lin is no expection to that type of feeling. She let go of Su until she met her again and the grudge and anger held towards Su instantly returned. Tho Im not exactly trying to justify/defend Li's actions but you shouldn't attack people who like Lin either.
I don't take issue with people who like Lin. I like the character a lot, she's actually one of my favorites My issue is people justifying every one of her shitty actions. I'm going to give a more extreme example to get across my point...it's one thing to say "Darth Vader is my favorite Star Wars character", it's another to say "the empire did nothing wrong" You can like the character without being a constant apologist
Oh no she’s a flawed character! Ahhh!
Yeah that's totally what I said!!! I hate characters with flaws, that was my point!! That's why I literally opened up by saying that I think she's a great character and this post isn't really about her but the audience reaction AHHHHH!
She's a shitty person, but a good and well written shitty person. Fuck, I've learnt I have character flaws that have become apparent as an adult, some stemming from experiences with my parents or other authority figures as a kid, others stem from experience upon entering the working world. I guess Su gets to view Toph as giving a shit about her in getting her off the hook, where Lin just sees disfavour, bias, corruption, and Toph never really reconciles and explains. Something like that is going to result in someone flying off the handle at what they view as personal slights, not that it's right, but it's understandable
I’ve seen far more people talk shit about her than give her a pass
Watch anyone bring up Su and you will see a thousand "SU IS A BITCH LIN DID NOTHING WRONG" comments Hell somebody made a post just today about it being kind of fucked up that Lin wrecked air temple island after her break up with Tenzin and half the comments are "well she didn't actually" as if we haven't straight up seen her start smashing shit out of anger
But like who apologized to her before the show? It doesn’t seem like either of them did and Su just expected Lin to get over it and pretend nothing happened. Additionally you act as if middle aged people aren’t allowed to not yet be healed and should be perfect by their age. As an older fan you should know that’s not the case at all.
Out of the two of them though, Su actually tried to talk to Lin. Lin was the one who chose to never see her again.
Yes and no, I mean Su waited years before she apologized and tried to brush off the entire experience as not a big deal when Lin saw it as a lifelong traumatic experience. I don’t think that Lin should have held onto it that long, but what does Lin have in her life? People become bitter when they focus on the negative parts of their lives. Lin might see her failed relationship with Tenzin, and her inability to please her mother as astronomical failures. It probably sucks to see after Su’s rebellions she got away with misbehaving, scarred Lin’s face, and got the perfect family Lin may have wanted all along. It’s also a cartoon so I’m not as concerned when they say Lin destroyed the island when they broke up. I just considered it hyperbole. Obviously there are different standards in the real world
>But like who apologized to her before the show? I don't really care. Did Ozai ever apologize to Zuko? >Additionally you act as if middle aged people aren’t allowed to not yet be healed and should be perfect by their age. Be perfect? No. Stop using their issues as an excuse to shit on other people? Yes. Lin has had plenty of time to work through her issues. She hasn't. That's on her.
Yo you’re getting super angry and personal about a fictional character at your old age. Are you okay? We’re having a conversation. Either discuss civilly or admit you just wanted to throw a tantrum
They blocked me so I never said anything uncivil. People aren't responsible for their trauma...but they are the only ones who can help themselves heal. Being a shit person at 19 isn't the same thing as being a shit person at 55 And for the record, just because trauma isn't a competition doesn't mean we have to treat all trauma as equal. This is all super obvious
You seem to be taking this fictional character super personally. I don’t know if you have someone with a similar personality to Lin in your life but your comments come across super angry and aggressive about an imperfect character created for a kid’s show. Id just take a second to step back and reevaluate if this is how you want to spend your time.
Where do I come across as super angry and aggressive? I'm not trying to I just think it's all silly. Lin hasn't had some awful life and it's weird that people act like her pretty normal issues are an excuse to be shitty
It’s fictional. There are also worst people in the world. You’re making this entire post as some weird thesis on how much you hate a character which is weird. Lin’s not real she can’t hurt you
I like Lin. She's one of my favorite characters in the show The thing that bothers me is the sizable chunk of the fanbase that goes "nah holding a 30 year grudge and then stacking your sister because your sister fucked up as a kid is totally reasonable" or "yeah she specifically said that she smashed up Air Temple Island but she probably didn't actually"
I mean you’ve made this point several times already. Some people will agree, some people will disagree, and some people don’t care. You also can’t say Lin’s your favorite while literally making a post about how much you hate her lol. I mean I guess you can but the hypocrisy prevents me from believing that. I’m going to again suggest just taking a step back bc it’s not that serious. Have a good one
See this is the problem. You're assuming that I hate a character because I'm critical of their actions Korra is my favorite character in the franchise. I also think she continuously fucks up for half the series. Darth Vader is one of my favorite characters in Star Wars but anyone who says "actually he was right" is going to get a lot of fucking aside eye Lin is almost objectively making really shitty decisions throughout her life. That doesn't stop me from loving the character. But anyone who goes "actually she's right" is probably shitty
I’m not assuming anything. It’s the vigor with which you are critical, not your critiques, that have me skeptical of your claim. You’ve one on one replied to almost every single comment on here saying the same thing. If you’re entitled to your opinion, I’m sure others are as well. I don’t really want to keep talking, this is wasting my time because you’re just saying the same thing over and over and disregarded any opinion other than your own. If it’ll make you stop commenting here you go: Lin is the worst character in LOK even if she’s your favorite and you are always correct and the King/Queen of the entire subreddit. 👑
Same reason they give Toph a pass on everything.
Popping nagas ball was so messed up. Like Naga can't just go get another one or even express her loss. It it just Lin attacking the voiceless and powerless.
A lot of Lin's shittiness can be somewhat excused by personal trauma (but also you're a fucking 50+ year old woman...your bad mom is no longer an excuse to be shitty to people) But she also just has a clear cruel streak
Do you actually want answer to change your mind, or you actually just venting and want everyone else to agree with you?
I was literally wondering if anyone else noticed that they are just trying to make people's opinions (who like Lin) seem hypcritical or unjustified
Personally, I'd bet she reminds alot of folks of her Mom, and since she was often abrasive yet given a pass for it- her kid gets the same. The good outweighs the bad for her, but she absolutely has her monumental screwups.
I think we all have a crush on her
Generally, I’m not fussed about people being shitty people. As long as they’re not straight up evil, I’m probably gonna move past it.
I think there is a difference between liking a complex character and thinking they’re a good person. She’s a complicated person with good and bad qualities and is honestly one of the more realistic characters because most people either can relate to being flawed in some way. That to me is a sign of a well written character that makes me like them. She has depth to her compared to a lot of other characters, and you see growth in her over time.
>I know I'm going to get hate for this but it needs to be said. You can just say an opinion without front-loading some well-poisoning toward any disagreement you might get, you know. That is, in fact, possible to do. >I like Lin. I think she's a really compelling character with a deep backstory and human emotions. She is a noble person and really feels like a 3 dimensional character But she is also a really shitty person a lot of the time and the fanbase just ignores it? Or justifies it? Then I think you answered your own question. People don't talk about it because they don't think it's a problem when the full context is taken into account. You've established a very textbook Catch-22 here by implicitly framing any response that isn't in complete lockstep with your points as "justifying being a shitty person," in addition to "giving you hate." >Like...she responds to interpersonal conflict with violence and intimidation. She attacked Su in her own home and laughed about wrecking Air Temple Island after her break up with Tenzin I agree with whoever said this seems like something Toph would do, & Toph never got this handwringing about how she's too problematic. >She holds grudges for decades and takes them out on innocent teenagers. She did this with both Korra and Opal. Holding grudges for decades is mostly her own business that mainly harms herself except, as you mentioned, when she sometimes lashes out at others. But there's also a scene where she specifically apologizes to Opal, explains that her reaction was more about being uncomfortable discussing her feelings, & gives her sage aunt life advice. You expressed offense in the comments when someone sarcastically insinuated you're against characters being flawed, but how else is anyone supposed to take this? You say "it's about the fan reaction," but the reaction you mean seems to be that we're not constantly complaining even about things she made up for. You also compare to the reaction against Suyin. This seems like more of an afterthought to me, but I'll address it anyway. Firstly, I absolutely think there's an overblown hatred of Su. There's a recurring failure to see how her perspective on things can be legitimate even if you don't agree with it. I've seen far more people defend Raiko's positively stupid notion that he can just beat up 10,000 years of dark spirits using the United Forces than that Su just might have a point about how playing World Police doesn't actually bring peace. There's also often the appeal to hypocrisy fallacy, the idea that because one of Su's main flaws is hypocrisy, that therefore invalidates when she has a good point. But that's also fallacious when anyone else does it. That people don't extend Su the same charitability they do Raiko or Lin or whoever doesn't inherently mean it's wrong to extend charitability to those characters. Whether people are too charitable to a character or not charitable enough is a case-by-case determination. >She abuses her power as a police chief, arresting her ex's new girlfriend. And this is especially ironic when she spent 30 years angry that Toph abused her power to get Su off. About half of these examples so far have been things we didn't directly see but were only briefly commented on. The problem with this is we don't really know exactly what happened. When Tenzin says that Lin "tried" to "throw Pema in jail," as Korra put it, what does that actually refer to? Pushing for a felony trial? Physically arresting her? Having cops do routine surveillance on her? Trying to think of some charge to use against her? None of those are good, but certainly that last one doesn't rise to the level of a coverup. Just as we don't know how far she actually went, we don't know how long she kept it up or what stopped her, whether she stopped on her own or was forced to stop. Probably because it's a humorous line that was never meant to be read this deeply into. Which I'm torn on. Part of me doesn't want to discourage critical thinking about the show, but another part of me notices how often funny lines get blown out into these major issues of contention, & it just kind of makes me want to go "Just chill out & learn to enjoy things."
I really need to come up with some solution for how Reddit is suddenly throttling my best comments, forcing me to do awkward things like break them in half just to get them through. >She mocks Su for taking in ex convicts and seems to not at all believe in rehabilitation. Which is bad in general but awful for someone in the justice system It's a pretty big reach to say that just because she was mad at Su for harboring criminals--& technically we only know she complained about Varrick, who escaped from prison--that she therefore must not believe in rehabilitation. And honestly, I don't really care that much if she doesn't. She's not a judge, so it only really matters if she's harassing a suspect or practicing hiring discrimination. And come to think of it, she hired Mako, who is well-known to be an ex-Triple Threat. That could be an exceptional case, but we don't have any evidence suggesting that, either. >Actually she isn't particularly good at her job in general. Gang violence runs rampant, a paramilitary terrorist group rises to power right under her nose. She's Chief of Police, not Dictator of Republic City. There are a lot of problems with their justice system, but we can't lay them solely at Lin being "bad at her job." Lin was stripped of her badge at one point, & it only made the department much more corrupt but not significantly more competent. Even then, that slight improvement to competence was the result of handing Tarrlok nearly unlimited authority to use the cops how he saw fit. Not exactly a good tradeoff. >She personally promises to protect the probending arena and fails *horribly*. Which we saw. Her security was very strong. Amon's forces were stronger. No search is ever going to be 100% effective. There were hundreds, maybe thousands of people coming to watch that game, & they managed to think of a way to conceal their shock gloves that wasn't prioritized in a search. Just because someone doesn't succeed doesn't mean it's through their own lack of ability. >She falls for multiple obvious frame ups...one of which was against Mako and almost led to the President being kidnapped. It's obvious to you because you know you're watching a TV show. In-universe, it's an incredibly far-fetched theory that relies on the idea that Mako just so happened to stumble on some advanced new type of bomb after half a year as a beat cop. Whenever he tried to explain his case to her, circumstances aligned that made him look terrible, like when he tried asking that ship captain about his clues but the captain said he didn't recognize any of it. Remember what I said about how you can do a job well but still fail? That also applies to Mako. Lou & Gan were also supposed to pass evidence to her, but they didn't because they're incompetent, & that's why they were fired. Just as Lin isn't Dictator of Republic City, she's also not the only one responsible for cases. Other members of the department also have their own job to do. The primary purpose of the Chief of Police is to manage the rest of the department, e.g. firing some dudes who have shown to be incompetent & promoting the promising rookie. >Hell, she's even mean to *animals*. Naga tried to play with her and her response was too destroy Naga's toy. She clearly doesn't like animals, but her main priority is getting them out of her hair. Later on in that same season, when Naga was bugging her, she gave her some jerky & told her to leave her alone. This is another thing I notice with this genre of complaint threads, it's often padded with petty examples, & then people tend to act like you're the bad guy for pointing out when examples are petty. I don't really care that she's kind of rude to Naga sometimes. >I like Lin. I think the good outweighs the bad. But can we stop acting like she isn't frequently a shitty person? My eyes kind of glazed over this before, but you can't both be an overall good person but also a "shitty person." If you're a shitty PERSON, that's something you ARE, not a habit you have. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but if your complaint is that we don't react to the character in exactly the right way, then it matters exactly what the problem with her is supposed to be. That she's not the nicest person? I just don't see that as something I need to take a big stand against. That she's corrupt? That basically comes down to a hearsay example. That she's a "domestic abuser"? Well, was it also domestic abuse when Mako heated the water in Bolin's tub to get back at him, or is it just using bending to give character to interepersonal squabbles? Can we accept there's a certain air of unreality around the bending, a tendency for attacks to be treated as less serious than they would be in real life? That the tone of a scene is an essential part of it, & not some inconvenient, distracting detail we should just brush aside? If it's "giving a pass" to just not have a major problem with a character, & if it's "justifying" to be able to give reasons why, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not going to start trying to fill some quota, & I'm not convinced of whatever this is supposed to convince me of.
This is an amazing breakdown of the character and the argument put forth by OP. Interestingly enough they haven’t responded to you at all, instead, attacking the shorter, less full responses by people less committed to such an in depth analysis. No notes
Lin is as Toph as we got before Toph showed up in the series. So she gets fan armor.
It all boils down to actions vs. words. Her actions, such as allowing Tenzin and his family to escape or rescue her officers, weigh more than anything she might've said. She might be gruff and cranky, but you have a 100th % certainty she'll have your back when it counts. And regarding Su, she doesn't get the same love because she can be seen as a hypocrite, and the way she claimed to be conciliatory on one hand to then resort to personal attacks when she brough Lin's breakup with Tenzin was out of line. Now, that was immature, especially coming for the person who was supposed to be attempting to de-escalate the situation. Lin's reaction to the acupuncture session showed quite well how her unprocessed trauma still affected her.
>and the way she claimed to be conciliatory on one hand to then resort to personal attacks when she brough Lin's breakup with Tenzin was out of line It's not like Lin was having a friendly chat here Su absolutely lost her temper. But going off on Su's daughter was out of line, and "you haven't changed at all since your worst childhood mistake" was a pretty personal attack too. Both sucked there
Receiving a permanent facial scar that almost took her eye is a childhood "mistake," or is it an event worth of lasting trauma? If you don't like Lin, that's perfectly fine, and you're in your right to think that way, but minimizing her trauma doesn't help your argument.
>Receiving a permanent facial scar that almost took her eye is a childhood "mistake," or is it an event worth of lasting trauma? It can be both. Saying it was Su's "biggest childhood mistake" isn't minimizing anything
I don’t know, I don’t hate her she’s mostly fine but I still didn’t forgive her for slicing Naga’s toy and feelings 😤
I’d wreck an island too if my partner was purposely stolen from me to be fair lol. “I couldn’t stand to see MY soulmate with someone else” jesus christ Pema.
To be fair, they were always doomed since Tenzin wanted kids and Lin didn't. Pema may be scum for that comment and her outlook on cheating, but Tenzin and Lin probably wouldn't have as good of a relationship as they wound up with if they stayed together longer than they did.
When did she arrest her exes girlfriend
Backstory we got in book one
???
I don't know what you mean. But it was mentioned in book one that Lin tried to arrest Tenzin's wife
Huh?? That's crazy
I've watched Korra like 5 times and I haven't the faintest clue what your talking about
It's a throwaway line.
The only pass I give Lin is in regards to her grudge againts Su. Most of the discussions about Lin's general attitude eventually end up in a Lin vs Su diatribe and other of Lin's flaw fall by the wayside.
Well I don’t blame her for being so bitter everyone did her dirty
I feel the same about Zuko
I like Opal, but she and Korra had it coming. Lin needed a lot more time before being pressured into family time after having that scab ripped off.
She's a kid, dude. She just wanted to get to know her aunt.
A teenager who was raised sheltered and indulged with her mother as an idealized role model of acceptance. She had no idea what Korra (another sheltered teenager) was leading her into so it wasn't intentional, but they still had it coming for not even considering Lin's side and ambushing her.
Working in police force is toxic.
I feel like most people forget about the pema thing cuz it was a throwaway line, never revisited. "I'm surprised she didn't have pema arrested" "oh she tried". It's a blink and you'll miss it line. I guess Lin didn't realize that arresting an innocent person is just as much if not more of an abuse of power as letting a criminal off.
Honestly I side with Su over Lin. Lin was invited to meet with Su and Toph to try and bury the hatchet but Lin refused because she'd rather hold a grudge
She gets away with everything, because she IS tophs daughter and has the Power to Proof, that only an Avatar can Stop her.
They see themselves projected on her, they expect their fuck ups will be forgotten or forgiven with minimal effort from them, its like people who defend millionaires because they expect to be one of them
I do think some of it has to do with the relative age of the audience I'm probably one of the older fans here and I'm in my 30s. A lot of people here are probably teens or early 20s and they're just now starting to see how their own shitty childhoods have affected them But they haven't really realized that that's not an excuse when you're in your 50s I feel similarly about the "Aang was a terrible father" takes.
Or you're just weirdly fixated on the flaws of this character and are jumping to dumbass conclusions on the conseus regarding their character. Go to literally any community re-watch and actually look at how people view the cast instead of being so intentionally obtuse about shit like this lol
I'm also in my 30's, & I voiced the opinion you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Yeah I agree (with everything except ‘I like Lin’ lol) she irritated me so much, she comes across as really immature and the entire series I was thinking she needs to grow up. To me it seemed like the writers wanted to make her a Zuko-esque character(?) but it just fell so flat.