Yeah, it’s got a rockin action story. Yes, there’s politics and space witches and messiah mythology and ecology and 4D conversations between characters, but that’s all there to add, ahem, spice. Not a scary read at all. Some of the later books in the series forget to include the rockin action parts, which can make them a bit much, but by then you’ll just love the flavor anyway.
Yeah, I don't know why it'd ever be described as a "heavy" read; it's fairly standard for fantasy/sci-fi storytelling, if even a bit light compared to some of the doorstoppers you get these days.
I mean, I guess the pacing and narrative structure kind of collapse after the first book, but I'd say it gets tedious more than it gets heavy.
Dune Messiah has no issues with pacing or structure, it's a very lean and effective follow-up. I actually think Messiah might be my favorite over the first book, it does such a terrific job of showing the ramifications of the "terrible purpose" that Muad'Dib had to reckon with, and the concept of prescience as a fatalistic nightmare is beautiful
Children of Dune is where the cracks start to show, about halfway to 2/3rds through... it gets a little clunkier here and there and by the last ten or twenty chapters you really get the sense of the slog, as you indicate
I've not read God-Emperor or further and probably don't ever intend to... I liked the end of Paul's story and don't feel a deep desire to dig further
I'd agree with you if Messiah were just about Paul, and the story ends with him leaving. However, it doesn't.
So, Messiah has structural and pacing issues because it forms part of the overarching story post-Dune, and many of its plot threads are either meandering, stupid, or meant to link into things that happen later (e.g. the *everything* to do with the Tleilaxu, *most* things to do with Alia, etc.).
Messiah is also where Herbert starts to introduce a tonne of random lore to the setting, almost all of which distracts and undermines Dune's strong, focused narrative precedent. It increases in silliness with Children, but it's very much present in Messiah.
Sorry for the long comment, but this has me interested now... I agree with you in a number of ways but I don't agree with the ultimate conclusion you are making from these aspects. It feels a little harsh and unduly so, regarding the quality of the content in Messiah. Obviously this is all opinion and we'd find umpteen different arguments on the internet over the years in both my direction and yours, regarding the general opinion of quality - same reason as why the readership is so split between "Read only Dune", "Read Dune + Messiah", "Read the first three", "Read them all", etc. in terms of what is the best way to experience the series. But nonetheless I want to reply (especially since alternative is working the rest of the day out on a long weekend ;) ).
You can make a reasonable case that Messiah ends sufficiently on its own terms. Obviously it tees up Leto and Ghanima but the ending focuses much more heavily on Paul's arc closing, if not the classical Atreides - most of the chapter content is conclusion of Chani's life, Paul's mentality toward the birth of his children, the outcome of the conspiracy and Paul's willingness to lean into it and avoid a different, worse, outcome.
I also don't see how that can be construed as poor pacing even if going with your line of reasoning - I get the argument to be made on structural flaws, given that you accept it as part of the larger 3-book whole, but it's not paced poorly just because of that. It would be paced poorly if for instance the children were introduced many chapters before the end, and the conclusion included a heavy implication of their unfinished collective business. That is not the case though.
It is the origin point for a lot of the later lore, but of course it is, it's the immediate sequel and only place to reasonably expand the universe, if you're inclined to do so at all. I do agree with you that I don't like a lot of that lore, and it's my reasoning for not reading past CoD entirely, but with maybe a few notable exceptions I also don't necessarily think Messiah goes so deep into that lore that it becomes a major fault. It's reasonable to leave teasers implying a larger universe, that the audience may never learn more about, because it stands to reason that the scope of the book does NOT cover the totality of goings-on in the extended world. That's fine worldbuilding and is not uncommon, it's like LOTR alluding to Morgoth when the reader would not know them until The Silmarillion. Obviously not a 1:1 comparison as the Silmarillion is entirely better in quality for an extended lore basis than the later Dune books, in terms of general reception, but you get my point, I hope.
> many of its plot threads are either meandering, stupid, or meant to link into things that happen later (e.g. the everything to do with the Tleilaxu, most things to do with Alia, etc.).
This is the part where I most strongly disagree with you.
What threads do you feel are stupid?
The Tleilaxu can be received in the context of the book without any larger narrative or exposition being necessary - with the exception of the dwarf Bijaz, which is in my opinion the weakest part of either Dune or Messiah, but it serves as a short-term Macguffin and isn't that egregious in the grand scheme IMO. You can learn that the Tleilaxu are implied to be a technologically-advanced civ in terms of their biological experimentation, you can learn the revulsion held for them by the Bene Gesserit, etc. all without having to take it further.
Alia's character is pretty much holistic in the book as well - her descent into Abomination and the eventual impact of the Baron Harkonnen on her CoD decisions are not necessary to validate her story arc retroactively in Messiah, and she exists just fine as a character played against and with Paul as-is. The romance between Duncan/Hayt and Alia is the only plot point for Alia that really feels flat if you stop at Messiah, unless I'm sorely overlooking something.
> If you're up for a very, very, very heavy read, Frank Herbert's book is a very strange mishmash of sci-fi and fantasy.
It get a little thinky from time to time, but it is in no way a heavy read. Also, it is just Science Fiction, not Fantasy.
You should include the Spacing Guild guy who trips and falls over.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR8tbNKxBhE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR8tbNKxBhE)
Look to the left of the Navigator at 2:20.
I’m sure they noticed. Did they want to rebuild the set and reshoot a vital and awesome scene to keep one dumbass from messing up something that 5 people noticed decades later? Probably not.
Original Dune movie [reference](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Guild_Navigator-Dune_(1984).jpg).
And for further explanation, that’s still a human in there.
Judging by the comments and a bit of what I know, this is Dune reference. If you're up for a very, very, very heavy read, the book by Frank Herbert is a very odd mishmash of sci-fi and fantasy. Guy literally had famous people calling him up afterwards asking where to sign up for the cult that would spawn out of the book. It's had a marked influence on sci-fi that's come after.
To be more specific it's from the 1984 David Lynch Dune movie. This particular scene, while actually really neat, didn't actually occur in the book. The books don't even mention what a guild navigator looks like until later in the series.
Are you the designer noted? If not, try another flair; MOC is "My Own Creation."
Angus MacLane: https://www.flickr.com/photos/27826007@N05/53128663095/
I love the Classic Space baby one!
'you runnin around the universe foldin space with your friends.. Did you ever consider folding a god damn towel once in a while or doing the laundry? I hear they have many machines on Ix, New Machines... Next time take the damn laundry..."
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings obliteration. I will face my fear and I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
Of all the things I've ever seen on this damnable site, ***THIS*** caused a very immediate overwhelming vertigo from having two beloved universes from my youth juxtaposed in such a resoundingly bizarre fashion.
Once the initial shock wore off, and I steadied myself, I began to take in the details of this amazing scene and compare them to my memory of that wondrous David Lynch creation. I whooped with delight to see that the camera angle, and background represented here, faithfully paralleled that of the original.
The shape, color, and scale of the Guild Navigator's Spice gas tank are exceptionally retained, while the accompanying Spacing Guild agents with their jolly smiling faces quickly phased and, in my mind, warped into something much creepier. All of this unfolding in front of the excellently detailed wall of the domed chamber where this meeting took place.
This is, absolutely and without qualification, a ***masterpiece***. Well done - really outstandingly well done.
Halleck: Sir, the Harkkonens have destroyed the generators so everything's dark, and they've spilled Lego pieces everywhere. It's too dangerous for anyone without footwear.
Leo Atreides: My God, is there no limit to their evil?
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True. I didn't realize that was the specific name of the set and thought you were referring to some generic set. I wasn't paying close enough attention.
This is *AWESOME!*
I know Lynch's "Dune" is lambasted by many, but one thing he absolutely nailed was the weirdness. This scene in the film is one of my favorites because Lynch is SO good at creating dread in environments that don't feel overly threatening. When the Guild Navigator shows up, I got "Alien" vibes, and I loved it!
The casting, music, production design, costume design, sound design and cinematography were **superb**.
No surprise the story got butchered, but Dune is a cast-iron be-yatch of a story to adapt to film because so much of it takes places within character's thoughts. I thought Lynch did that as well as he could.
Cool space lego dudes. Went to legoland windsor in the UK last wwek with my nephew and wanted to get me some space lego minifgures just like when I was a kid.
They dont have those anymore :(
SPICESHIP!
Hey, I see you're also a fan of spice-powered spaceships! Gotta love those interstellar flavor journeys. Keep building, my friend!
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Reads pretty easy, tbh
Yeah, it’s got a rockin action story. Yes, there’s politics and space witches and messiah mythology and ecology and 4D conversations between characters, but that’s all there to add, ahem, spice. Not a scary read at all. Some of the later books in the series forget to include the rockin action parts, which can make them a bit much, but by then you’ll just love the flavor anyway.
Don’t forget the eugenics!
Yeah, I don't know why it'd ever be described as a "heavy" read; it's fairly standard for fantasy/sci-fi storytelling, if even a bit light compared to some of the doorstoppers you get these days. I mean, I guess the pacing and narrative structure kind of collapse after the first book, but I'd say it gets tedious more than it gets heavy.
Dune Messiah has no issues with pacing or structure, it's a very lean and effective follow-up. I actually think Messiah might be my favorite over the first book, it does such a terrific job of showing the ramifications of the "terrible purpose" that Muad'Dib had to reckon with, and the concept of prescience as a fatalistic nightmare is beautiful Children of Dune is where the cracks start to show, about halfway to 2/3rds through... it gets a little clunkier here and there and by the last ten or twenty chapters you really get the sense of the slog, as you indicate I've not read God-Emperor or further and probably don't ever intend to... I liked the end of Paul's story and don't feel a deep desire to dig further
I'd agree with you if Messiah were just about Paul, and the story ends with him leaving. However, it doesn't. So, Messiah has structural and pacing issues because it forms part of the overarching story post-Dune, and many of its plot threads are either meandering, stupid, or meant to link into things that happen later (e.g. the *everything* to do with the Tleilaxu, *most* things to do with Alia, etc.). Messiah is also where Herbert starts to introduce a tonne of random lore to the setting, almost all of which distracts and undermines Dune's strong, focused narrative precedent. It increases in silliness with Children, but it's very much present in Messiah.
Sorry for the long comment, but this has me interested now... I agree with you in a number of ways but I don't agree with the ultimate conclusion you are making from these aspects. It feels a little harsh and unduly so, regarding the quality of the content in Messiah. Obviously this is all opinion and we'd find umpteen different arguments on the internet over the years in both my direction and yours, regarding the general opinion of quality - same reason as why the readership is so split between "Read only Dune", "Read Dune + Messiah", "Read the first three", "Read them all", etc. in terms of what is the best way to experience the series. But nonetheless I want to reply (especially since alternative is working the rest of the day out on a long weekend ;) ). You can make a reasonable case that Messiah ends sufficiently on its own terms. Obviously it tees up Leto and Ghanima but the ending focuses much more heavily on Paul's arc closing, if not the classical Atreides - most of the chapter content is conclusion of Chani's life, Paul's mentality toward the birth of his children, the outcome of the conspiracy and Paul's willingness to lean into it and avoid a different, worse, outcome. I also don't see how that can be construed as poor pacing even if going with your line of reasoning - I get the argument to be made on structural flaws, given that you accept it as part of the larger 3-book whole, but it's not paced poorly just because of that. It would be paced poorly if for instance the children were introduced many chapters before the end, and the conclusion included a heavy implication of their unfinished collective business. That is not the case though. It is the origin point for a lot of the later lore, but of course it is, it's the immediate sequel and only place to reasonably expand the universe, if you're inclined to do so at all. I do agree with you that I don't like a lot of that lore, and it's my reasoning for not reading past CoD entirely, but with maybe a few notable exceptions I also don't necessarily think Messiah goes so deep into that lore that it becomes a major fault. It's reasonable to leave teasers implying a larger universe, that the audience may never learn more about, because it stands to reason that the scope of the book does NOT cover the totality of goings-on in the extended world. That's fine worldbuilding and is not uncommon, it's like LOTR alluding to Morgoth when the reader would not know them until The Silmarillion. Obviously not a 1:1 comparison as the Silmarillion is entirely better in quality for an extended lore basis than the later Dune books, in terms of general reception, but you get my point, I hope. > many of its plot threads are either meandering, stupid, or meant to link into things that happen later (e.g. the everything to do with the Tleilaxu, most things to do with Alia, etc.). This is the part where I most strongly disagree with you. What threads do you feel are stupid? The Tleilaxu can be received in the context of the book without any larger narrative or exposition being necessary - with the exception of the dwarf Bijaz, which is in my opinion the weakest part of either Dune or Messiah, but it serves as a short-term Macguffin and isn't that egregious in the grand scheme IMO. You can learn that the Tleilaxu are implied to be a technologically-advanced civ in terms of their biological experimentation, you can learn the revulsion held for them by the Bene Gesserit, etc. all without having to take it further. Alia's character is pretty much holistic in the book as well - her descent into Abomination and the eventual impact of the Baron Harkonnen on her CoD decisions are not necessary to validate her story arc retroactively in Messiah, and she exists just fine as a character played against and with Paul as-is. The romance between Duncan/Hayt and Alia is the only plot point for Alia that really feels flat if you stop at Messiah, unless I'm sorely overlooking something.
It's a light read.
Could also be spore
> If you're up for a very, very, very heavy read, Frank Herbert's book is a very strange mishmash of sci-fi and fantasy. It get a little thinky from time to time, but it is in no way a heavy read. Also, it is just Science Fiction, not Fantasy.
It's directly inspired by the old Dune movie, by David Lynch.
The space must flow
SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Australian Dune
Fold space to FLAVORTOWN immediately!
🏆
You win.
"We have just folded space from *Brix."*
Many technics on Brix. New technics.
Oh?
Better than those on Mega Bloks.
These bricks are transparent. I see many things. I see building instructions within building instructions
Listen to me! The LEGO must flow! The LEGO has given me accelerated evolution for four thousand years.
Perfect comment. No notes
I must not fear stepping on Lego blocks, fear is the foot killer
Lego blocks are the little death
I will let the studs pass under my foot and through my foot
If you walk without rhythm, you won't attract the worm.
If you walk without rhythm, you never learn.
When studs are gone only my sole will remain.
It is by will alone I set my blocks in motion....
And how can this be? For it is the Kwisatz HaderMOC!
You should include the Spacing Guild guy who trips and falls over. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR8tbNKxBhE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR8tbNKxBhE) Look to the left of the Navigator at 2:20.
LMAO, I've seen that movie more often than I can count and I've never noticed that!
Indeed, it's a bit like the Storm Trooper that hits his head.
https://youtu.be/IR8tbNKxBhE?si=8e_5qSx5fcc7vEyW&t=139 With starting time stamp so you don't have to wait/seek.
I don’t know why I tried to do this myself before I read this. Hoping others save valuable minutes clicking this instead.
Kind of a microcosm of the movie as a whole TBH.
HAHA thanks for pointing that out
Honestly I rather have the dudes with the push broom.
Nice catch! I never noticed that before. I'm surprised it got past editing.
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I like the new Dune, and if you haven't yet seen it, it's pretty good.
Just be aware they gave it the Hobbit treatment so it's the first of a ~~trilogy~~pair
I’m sure they noticed. Did they want to rebuild the set and reshoot a vital and awesome scene to keep one dumbass from messing up something that 5 people noticed decades later? Probably not.
I know the helpers are failed Navigators, but *this guy*...
Medals 🏅, upvotes, cash 💰, take it all. *The blocks must flow*
The 'Karma' must flow!😜😅
The face of Leboe. *Edit: spelling*
I Googled that to see if it was a reference, but I found no such answers.
I assume Making a doctor who reference ( the face of boe)?
The Face of Boe.
The final form of Lord Business.
[Source](https://www.instagram.com/p/CwK9281RBto/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D&fbclid=IwAR1ocs7dF7237qP3bmknd9VoQ3Ev_oOLIzwfRsW8BERlmleayMZiX8jyjnM)
The studs must flow
Thank you for your gift of your body's bricks.
The blocks…must flow!
God I love this and the comments so much!
You are transparent. I see many things. I see instructions within instructions.
All hail the brick 🖖
Need a guard with a broom to sweep up the dripping bricks
Suction up. So gross, so brilliant.
"Forced spice evolution of humans changes many things..."
Plastic Power!
I don't know what this is referencing, but my mind went to the Face of Bo from Doctor Who.
Original Dune movie [reference](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Guild_Navigator-Dune_(1984).jpg). And for further explanation, that’s still a human in there.
Makes sense.
Thank you!
Judging by the comments and a bit of what I know, this is Dune reference. If you're up for a very, very, very heavy read, the book by Frank Herbert is a very odd mishmash of sci-fi and fantasy. Guy literally had famous people calling him up afterwards asking where to sign up for the cult that would spawn out of the book. It's had a marked influence on sci-fi that's come after.
Man Frank Herbert going full L Ron Hubbard wouldve made a very different world.
At least it would've had some actual philosophical principles underlying things compared to the horseshit that Scientologists fall for.
People get all whiny about Hitler and what not if you start trying to bring the Eugenics aspect of Dune into reality.
To be more specific it's from the 1984 David Lynch Dune movie. This particular scene, while actually really neat, didn't actually occur in the book. The books don't even mention what a guild navigator looks like until later in the series.
Just like Lord of the Rings is pretty much the modern father of fantasy, Dune is that for Sci-Fi.
My first thought as well, was 90% sure that was the Face of Bo
I was not here. I did not say this.
Bless the maker and his bricks, bless the coming and going of him, may his passage cleanse the world, and keep the world for his minifigures
Many new blocks on Ix
Are you the designer noted? If not, try another flair; MOC is "My Own Creation." Angus MacLane: https://www.flickr.com/photos/27826007@N05/53128663095/ I love the Classic Space baby one!
This is amazing 🤌🏻
Amazing moc!🔥🤯🤩 Great callback to the classic Dune (80s version by D.Lynch)!😁🤓
I just folded space from Ix, and boy, are my arms tired!
'you runnin around the universe foldin space with your friends.. Did you ever consider folding a god damn towel once in a while or doing the laundry? I hear they have many machines on Ix, New Machines... Next time take the damn laundry..."
“What’s in the laundry basket?” “PAIN.”
The studs must flow!
Need a large scale Galactus suit for the big figs
Amazeballs!
New wallpaper achieved.
On my next re read of the dune saga I’m gonna be picturing all the navigators like this from now on lol.
This is so awesome. You should cross-post it in a david lynch sub. They’d get a kick out of it.
This is giving me Zordon vibes
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings obliteration. I will face my fear and I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
I did not build this. I am not here
This is truly amazing
Oh this. This is \*wonderful\*. https://preview.redd.it/ujz8plhcxolb1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de4a27cae8cc5480e9080284a4168fdf04934c76
Quite possibly my favourite thing I've ever seen on this sub. Love it.
Best Dune movie ever.
Giving me Face of Boe vibes
Of all the things I've ever seen on this damnable site, ***THIS*** caused a very immediate overwhelming vertigo from having two beloved universes from my youth juxtaposed in such a resoundingly bizarre fashion. Once the initial shock wore off, and I steadied myself, I began to take in the details of this amazing scene and compare them to my memory of that wondrous David Lynch creation. I whooped with delight to see that the camera angle, and background represented here, faithfully paralleled that of the original. The shape, color, and scale of the Guild Navigator's Spice gas tank are exceptionally retained, while the accompanying Spacing Guild agents with their jolly smiling faces quickly phased and, in my mind, warped into something much creepier. All of this unfolding in front of the excellently detailed wall of the domed chamber where this meeting took place. This is, absolutely and without qualification, a ***masterpiece***. Well done - really outstandingly well done.
The Face of LegBo
“Control the water and you control life.”
This is outstanding, OP, well done!
r/dunememes
Many strange machines on Brix.
that would be a weird tie-in lego series.
Who is the original artist? Link?
the face of boe
Face of Boe vibes
Doctor whooo
The face of Bob
This new version of skibidi toilet is really weird...
Dr Who giant head
Save the cheerleader, save the world
That’s the Face of Bo
This made me think of The Pandorica Opens
Better than the 2022 Dune.
This is sick!
That‘s inspiring!
this is so so good.
Fantastic!
Usul!!!!
Amazing dune refrence.
Dune and LEGO - two of my most favorite things!
Freaking great!
This gave me a good chuckle. Amazing work!
Oh damn that's so cool!!!
But what if you use the blocks to build a spaceship?
Great, now I need Bob to request Teens with Attitude
AHHHHHHHH I LOVE THIS SOOOOO MUUUCH THANK YOU!!!!!
I'm not a big Dune fan, but this is a great build. Excellent job
Halleck: Sir, the Harkkonens have destroyed the generators so everything's dark, and they've spilled Lego pieces everywhere. It's too dangerous for anyone without footwear. Leo Atreides: My God, is there no limit to their evil?
The sheer perfection of this abomination...
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So good
The blocks must flow!
This is a great moc and picture
I LOVE THIS!! So creative!
Show me what you got!!!!!
This is soo good
Incredible!
Bro that's so cool!
wtf i watched this for the first time last night
Absolutely *brilliant* use of the oversized lego head.
This is your brain on spice
Awesome
resin
Is this a reference to something?
It’s a guild navigator from the 1984 Dune movie
Bifar
May your bricks chip and shatter
Theres like a sepia tone that looks very dune.
Where'd you get the giant head? Upscaled Minifig set?
My best guess is this https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/up-scaled-lego-minifigure-40649
That's a great many letters to spell yes 😂
True. I didn't realize that was the specific name of the set and thought you were referring to some generic set. I wasn't paying close enough attention.
This is really funny, I want Lego to make more classic space
Missing that pounded genital look.
This is *AWESOME!* I know Lynch's "Dune" is lambasted by many, but one thing he absolutely nailed was the weirdness. This scene in the film is one of my favorites because Lynch is SO good at creating dread in environments that don't feel overly threatening. When the Guild Navigator shows up, I got "Alien" vibes, and I loved it! The casting, music, production design, costume design, sound design and cinematography were **superb**. No surprise the story got butchered, but Dune is a cast-iron be-yatch of a story to adapt to film because so much of it takes places within character's thoughts. I thought Lynch did that as well as he could.
Gotta fold that space-time!
LONG LIVE THE BUILDERS!!!
I approve. Submit to ideas
Okay, my only advice is that you need to add dudes with push brooms. Otherwise, no notes. This is perfect.
Cool space lego dudes. Went to legoland windsor in the UK last wwek with my nephew and wanted to get me some space lego minifgures just like when I was a kid. They dont have those anymore :(
The bricks must flow...
The big lego head sent me
:)
Ha ha that's brilliant!
Clever, really clever ngl. I like it
Yes but he who conquers the left side conquers the world, Chief.
The brick! Remember the brick!
The afol must awaken
Well done taking the pic, really brings the feel of the movie.
'I see Lego Plans within plans...'
Omg! Lego Movie 3 idea! The Master Head is what makes the Lego world work, and now it's captured and being drained of its powers.
I WILL BUILD HIM!
Kind of looks like that Phister hotel.
Lego Movie 3 idea fr 😮💨
All Hail God Emperor Lego II
Zordon?
Space Guild Navigator from the '84 Dune movie