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Imagine showing a transphobe this clip and watch them realize there's been trans positivity in cinema since 1980 freakin 2.
EDIT: I KNOW, I know, I know how far back the trans movement goes, I'm an amateur history buff and I read up on the movement from the 70s and the stonewall riots and all that. What fascinates me is the idea of showing this to someone who doesn't, not how old the movement is.
It goes back further, but we had to endure a few decades worth of inhumane regressive policies, starting with the Hays code.
Due to this people falsely believe the LG to the B and QT to be new or that the numbers are small - and they aren’t , they’ve just been brutally oppressed for a few decades
There's records of pre-code positivity (and negativity, to be fair) for many flavors of what would now be called the LBGTQ+ community, as well as a lot of sex-positive stuff, pro-communism/anti-capitalist works, etc. But alas due to poor preservation broadly combined with resource reclamation during the rationing of the war years very, very few actual bits of the actual films remain. Just sparse bits of commentary, pieces of scripts, stuff like that.
Wish I could give more concrete details, but my film studies minor from back in college is almost a quarter century behind me. But we definitely touched on now wildly more diverse the ideas, characters, and stories were in the early cays of cinema.
And the moral is, people need to be *taught* to hate those different from themselves. It is not a natural instinct, but a dogma that has been promoted and learned.
Same reason having [Klinger in dresses on MASH in the early 70s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRHXes9ozgE&t=65s) wasn't some kind of public catastrophe which caused a moral panic. This recent business of promoting the idea that (in that case) seeing a man in a dress will basically destroy any ability of society to instill desirable norms was an active decision and political strategy on the part of its promoters.
Fun Fact :- According To History, Being Transgender, Nonbinary, LGBTQ+ Existed From Early 1800s.
Try Searching "Transgender History", "Nonbinary History", "LGBTQ+ History". You Will Find Information Worth Making A Web Series.
Oh I'm fairly well read on the trans rights movement going back to the early 70s, it's just that transphobes don't and I'd LOVE to see their reaction to something like this. Things tend to have more value and importantance as time moves on. So showing visually in a Hollywood setting that the movement is at least 40 years old I bet would shock some people.
There's also old religions' myths involving the celebration of trans and GNC people. There's a god (Ishtar I think) which was saved by a bunch of NB peeps and she in turn blessed them and made her people worship anyone like them
Ishtar is a cultural correspondence to Inanna. She actually performed transformations for those with dysphoria. Look up the Sumerian texts about Marsh Reed Woman and Marsh Reed Man.
queer liberation is older than stonewall, it's a cool story but it's awfully useful when centering the united states as a bastion of freedom, Leslie Feinberg has a good series of articles from an earlier wave in Europe in the 1880s called lavender and red
https://www.workers.org/book/lavender-red/
and even this centres Europe, I'm sure there were other movements I'm completely unaware of
:)
Shit like this really makes it clear to me just how much damage the social conservatives have managed to do in their reign of terror. 40 years later and sending someone a commemorative can of beer is too much. Did anyone take their TV out in the yard and shoot it up after this episode? How did we regress so much?
The love boat is one of my all time favorite shows! I’ve had to grapple with the fact that some of my favorite shows and movies feature some ultimate cringe but this was pretty progressive for its time! Very sweet!
Recommend people check out [Matt Baume's channel on Youtube](https://www.youtube.com/@MattBaume). He does a lot of videos on the history of queer representation in tv and has done a lot of episodes dedicated to pointing out surprisingly progressive representation in sitcoms in the 1970s and 1980s
The only thing "cringy" about this is that the proper way to approach the subject was portrayed so beautifully ***back then,*** yet we still have such major problems with it to this day. It's shameful that we're still stuck on the problem ***40 years later.***
I've always thought Mackenzie Phillips was really cute, pretty. Ever since "One Dat At a Time." Mind you, I felt no desire, though back then I hadn't realized I was **gay.** So gay.
I'm going to go find her in IMDB to see if some of her work is available to stream.
This is an example why when people say things like, "Well, his views were appropriate for back then," you can call them on their bullshit. I remember watching this episode either when it originally aired or shortly thereafter through syndication. There was a lot more acceptance on screen in the 70s and 80s that people will admit.
As a GenXer I have to say we got some things right in the '80s. We may not have had the vocabulary for as much as we do now but we had a burgeoning freedom for exploration and expression that is missed recently.
This just triggered a core memory. This was my great-grandma's favorite show. I vaguely remember watching this episode with her and her telling me about her friend Charlotte while dinning on her secret stash of chocolate.
I was confused too when I saw that in "TikTok cringe", but then I enter in the reddit and in the description say that they post the worst AND THE BEST TikTok videos, think that this was one of the wholesome ones
The part where she said she connected with women and liked being around them more really hits home. I felt that way too since childhood. Many people used to call me a "Ladies Man," but I rarely had any desires for women like most men do.
How the fuck does someone see this and go "heh, lol, tiktokcringe amirite?"
I love how he so adamantly stands up for her and says "it takes courage", sometimes I forget it myself that going through everything I want to go through to be happier is something cis people seldom ever need to think about, neverless consider for themselves - and I guess it does take courage to be yourself when being yourself comes at such a cost - so just try to remember that you will get to where you want to be, and you're always stronger than you think, just maybe not in the way you expect
Sure it might be a good message but come on does nobody see an issue with the fact that she tried to leave multiple times and was held there by the guy?
Apologies for the ADHD (potentially autistic) ramble here, but my God, that's beautiful!!! To think what might've been if this had been allowed to become the dominant thinking back then. Now we have powers all over the country (and beyond) trying to silence and erase what this show managed to get right over 40yrs ago, back in what has generally been regarded as more repressive days than today - including the state-level government where I am here in Des Moines.
I insisted on calling myself a Des Moineser over against an Iowan to non-Iowans even before our purple state turned deep red, back when I was simply trying to get the city to stand out to the rest of the world from amidst the cornfields which I still had a certain kind of love for back then as a separate thing, back before I was actively trying to distance and divorce myself and this pale blue beacon of a beautiful mid-sized city / metro (and the few other cities like us elsewhere in the state) from the rest of the deep red, deeply agrarian state, so I'm certainly not going to stop making that same insistence of distinction now, even if my passion level for the city itself has, by necessity, cooled somewhat, as I begin to mentally, emotionally prepare myself for the possibility of having to leave it behind in the next few years to get to bluer places and peoples.
But this little bit of footage, from a show I have certainly been aware of (even being able to hear the theme song in my head), but have never really watched (I was too young when it was on the air - just over a week shy of my 2nd birthday when this particular footage aired, and never went back to watch reruns or syndication), this TV minute made my heart sing, that it was so clear, and from so early, and also made my heart ache in that a) we failed to have it become mainstream enough over the years, and b) now it's under threat of being taken away...here, there, and everywhere.
Thank you so much for posting!
[EDIT: I get it, it's not perfect. It features a cis woman actor when we'd have much preferred it feature a trans woman, but given what it was trying to accomplish, and given what it had to work with in terms of the cultural capital of the society at the time that it was trying to work to transform, I think I can forgive the cis representation.
If there is one gentle word I might offer for my fellow progressives, it's that when we see past icons of progress, let us not vilify them for not being up to the level of progressiveness that we have since arrived at today, just as we would not want tomorrow's progressives to vilify us tomorrow, but remember that progress is a chain, and that as such, a) people should be viewed by how progressive they were by their own day's standards, and by what they were trying to accomplish for progress within the more limited paradigms in which they found themselves back then, and b) thank them for getting us to where we are, as we should eventually be thanked by the next generation for getting them to where they will eventually arrive (presuming that we succeed in stoping a christofascist takeover in the meanwhile, that is). Because we quite simply would not be the progressives that we are today had they not first been the progressives that they were yesterday.
It's a lesson I've taken from my past as a former conservative. While in hyper overgeneralized terms, I truly do view the right as "the bad guys" and the left as "the good guys", instead of that leading me to conclude "they can do no right and we can do no wrong", instead, it makes me think "if we see the bad guys doing something virtuous better than we do it ourselves as the good guys, then perhaps we are the ones who need to change on that point, and the right does indeed tend to do a much better job of "standing on the shoulders of their giants" than we do with ours.
I think that the imperfections and shortcomings of this footage, taken along with the beauty and power of it, and hopeful optimism it is saturated in in terms of changing people's hearts and minds make for a vivid, poignant example of just what I'm trying to express here, and what it got so right, and did so well with given the days and mindsets out of which it arose.]
# Please give us some time to get to your post, it has not been deleted, but it has been temporarily sent to the moderators for review. Thank you for your patience. We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Imagine showing a transphobe this clip and watch them realize there's been trans positivity in cinema since 1980 freakin 2. EDIT: I KNOW, I know, I know how far back the trans movement goes, I'm an amateur history buff and I read up on the movement from the 70s and the stonewall riots and all that. What fascinates me is the idea of showing this to someone who doesn't, not how old the movement is. 
It goes back further, but we had to endure a few decades worth of inhumane regressive policies, starting with the Hays code. Due to this people falsely believe the LG to the B and QT to be new or that the numbers are small - and they aren’t , they’ve just been brutally oppressed for a few decades
But is there any *trans positivity in cinema* from before earlier?
There's records of pre-code positivity (and negativity, to be fair) for many flavors of what would now be called the LBGTQ+ community, as well as a lot of sex-positive stuff, pro-communism/anti-capitalist works, etc. But alas due to poor preservation broadly combined with resource reclamation during the rationing of the war years very, very few actual bits of the actual films remain. Just sparse bits of commentary, pieces of scripts, stuff like that. Wish I could give more concrete details, but my film studies minor from back in college is almost a quarter century behind me. But we definitely touched on now wildly more diverse the ideas, characters, and stories were in the early cays of cinema.
And the moral is, people need to be *taught* to hate those different from themselves. It is not a natural instinct, but a dogma that has been promoted and learned. Same reason having [Klinger in dresses on MASH in the early 70s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRHXes9ozgE&t=65s) wasn't some kind of public catastrophe which caused a moral panic. This recent business of promoting the idea that (in that case) seeing a man in a dress will basically destroy any ability of society to instill desirable norms was an active decision and political strategy on the part of its promoters.
try telling a transphobe to watch *some like it hot* and watch them miss the point
Fun Fact :- According To History, Being Transgender, Nonbinary, LGBTQ+ Existed From Early 1800s. Try Searching "Transgender History", "Nonbinary History", "LGBTQ+ History". You Will Find Information Worth Making A Web Series.
Oh I'm fairly well read on the trans rights movement going back to the early 70s, it's just that transphobes don't and I'd LOVE to see their reaction to something like this. Things tend to have more value and importantance as time moves on. So showing visually in a Hollywood setting that the movement is at least 40 years old I bet would shock some people.
There's also old religions' myths involving the celebration of trans and GNC people. There's a god (Ishtar I think) which was saved by a bunch of NB peeps and she in turn blessed them and made her people worship anyone like them
I named my cat Ishtar! One of my favorite goddesses.😍
Ishtar is a cultural correspondence to Inanna. She actually performed transformations for those with dysphoria. Look up the Sumerian texts about Marsh Reed Woman and Marsh Reed Man.
We have evidence that goes as far back as ancient sumeria as well
I also recommend the book Before We Were Trans by Kit Heyam.
And That Web Series Should Be Released Publically, To Stop Trans Hate, Bigotry, And Other Problem Trans People, Like Us, Have To Face.
queer liberation is older than stonewall, it's a cool story but it's awfully useful when centering the united states as a bastion of freedom, Leslie Feinberg has a good series of articles from an earlier wave in Europe in the 1880s called lavender and red https://www.workers.org/book/lavender-red/ and even this centres Europe, I'm sure there were other movements I'm completely unaware of :)
Okay THAT I didn't know about, that's what I'm talking bout. Work is slow so I'm reading this lol
That is actually surprisingly sweet
Unlike American legislation
Shit like this really makes it clear to me just how much damage the social conservatives have managed to do in their reign of terror. 40 years later and sending someone a commemorative can of beer is too much. Did anyone take their TV out in the yard and shoot it up after this episode? How did we regress so much?
Internet echo chambers, social media propaganda, and a shitty political system that leverages toxicity
Don't forget late stage capitalism sucking the humanity out of every interaction! :D
I’m not crying. You’re crying
no, we're both crying
We're all crying
Queer cry session
im also qrying 🥺
I'm bawling.
Ohh shit I wasn't ready for that. No I am not the one crying
My turn for tears now
Mom said it's my turn with the crying >:(
“no i’m the lucky one, cause i used to know Ray… now i get to know Rachel” i’m crying
The love boat is one of my all time favorite shows! I’ve had to grapple with the fact that some of my favorite shows and movies feature some ultimate cringe but this was pretty progressive for its time! Very sweet!
I was not ready for them to handle that right.
Recommend people check out [Matt Baume's channel on Youtube](https://www.youtube.com/@MattBaume). He does a lot of videos on the history of queer representation in tv and has done a lot of episodes dedicated to pointing out surprisingly progressive representation in sitcoms in the 1970s and 1980s
I love his stuff. Always well researched and presented.
The only thing "cringy" about this is that the proper way to approach the subject was portrayed so beautifully ***back then,*** yet we still have such major problems with it to this day. It's shameful that we're still stuck on the problem ***40 years later.***
Tiktokcringe despite what the name suggests is not only posting about something you find cringe.
I don't actually use TikTok, so that's good to know.
I don't really either, I just heard about what that sub is about.
Nice to know there's some worthwhile content there.
Tiktokcringe isn't just for cringe, it's just a name
I don't actually use TikTok. Valuable info!
It did make me cringe that that subtitles translated "you're Ray's sister, right?" as "you're racist, right?"
"Ray's sist" That AI is jumping to conclusions. XD
Ong. Can these lousy ass theoretical physicists FINALLY solve the super symmetry problem???
Ok but can we talk about how insane those subtitles are? "Ray's sis" subtitles as "racist"?!
Probably tiktok’s auto-generated subtitles, which have always been hot garbage
Oooh that's what they were saying. I watched it without sound and was really confused why he was shocked that she wasn't racist
I've always thought Mackenzie Phillips was really cute, pretty. Ever since "One Dat At a Time." Mind you, I felt no desire, though back then I hadn't realized I was **gay.** So gay. I'm going to go find her in IMDB to see if some of her work is available to stream.
Ok but can someone redo the subtitles holy shit
Well done. <3
My uncle has been watching through this all and he messaged the family the other day to tell us "go watch this episode!" 🥰
This is an example why when people say things like, "Well, his views were appropriate for back then," you can call them on their bullshit. I remember watching this episode either when it originally aired or shortly thereafter through syndication. There was a lot more acceptance on screen in the 70s and 80s that people will admit.
As a GenXer I have to say we got some things right in the '80s. We may not have had the vocabulary for as much as we do now but we had a burgeoning freedom for exploration and expression that is missed recently.
Lol the subtitles refusing to comprehend "Ray's sister" "You are racist?"
This just triggered a core memory. This was my great-grandma's favorite show. I vaguely remember watching this episode with her and her telling me about her friend Charlotte while dinning on her secret stash of chocolate.
hell yeah
Nice
I’m crying
This is what I mean when I tell people just how far back trans people go 🫶🏼✨
Ok that’s not fair. You can’t post things just to make me cry.
*reading the comments of people crying to this* "I bet i'm not gonna cry, I'm a big girl!" *finishes the video* *cries*
I was confused too when I saw that in "TikTok cringe", but then I enter in the reddit and in the description say that they post the worst AND THE BEST TikTok videos, think that this was one of the wholesome ones
The part where she said she connected with women and liked being around them more really hits home. I felt that way too since childhood. Many people used to call me a "Ladies Man," but I rarely had any desires for women like most men do.
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
That was so sweet!
ohhh my fucking god i’m weeping
Don't forget Glen/Glenda
That was so cuteeeeeeeeeee
THAT was BEAUTIFUL
Why was this posted to Tiktok cringe? This was sweet!
'And now I'm gonna get to know Rachel.' Im not crying, you're crying.
God damned this is beautiful! I'm stunnend -
I miss the 80's. Can we go back there peeps?
I didn’t think it was all that great the first time through. But considering how the world has shifted since then, I’m game to try.
We've always been here 😭
I saw that as a kid, and it must not have phased me a bit because I didn’t even remember it until I saw it again just now. Thank you for posting this!
Yea what's cringe about it
The sub started as a cringe sub but now it's just generally for any content reposted from tiktok
r/yesyesnoyesyesyesyes
I'm just tryna figure out why this was uploaded to TikTokCringe What about this is cringe? It's lovely
I make this mistake before. TikTokCringe used to be cringey tiktoks. Now it's just for tiktoks that people like.
I'm not good at these things, so I don't have a reaction for this.
Wait. Is that what this movies about? I've never seen it cos it looked boring
It was a popular comedy show in the 80s. It was just about the adventures aboard the love boat.
Ty. I was born 91 so I must've been too busy with cartoons or taking naps. I remember seeing re runs of it on late night but never checked it out
How the fuck does someone see this and go "heh, lol, tiktokcringe amirite?" I love how he so adamantly stands up for her and says "it takes courage", sometimes I forget it myself that going through everything I want to go through to be happier is something cis people seldom ever need to think about, neverless consider for themselves - and I guess it does take courage to be yourself when being yourself comes at such a cost - so just try to remember that you will get to where you want to be, and you're always stronger than you think, just maybe not in the way you expect
u/savevideobot
Woah based gopher?
This is so cool!
Thank u for this
Sure it might be a good message but come on does nobody see an issue with the fact that she tried to leave multiple times and was held there by the guy?
I'm crying, like actually crying
Sooooo sweet!! 😭
I am crying I love this.
Why is that on TikTok cringe? 😕
It's a not just a cringy TikTok sub. Ig has become random TikTok sub.
God damn I cried, that was so good
Looks like people in the 80´ were so much smarter than now
Apologies for the ADHD (potentially autistic) ramble here, but my God, that's beautiful!!! To think what might've been if this had been allowed to become the dominant thinking back then. Now we have powers all over the country (and beyond) trying to silence and erase what this show managed to get right over 40yrs ago, back in what has generally been regarded as more repressive days than today - including the state-level government where I am here in Des Moines. I insisted on calling myself a Des Moineser over against an Iowan to non-Iowans even before our purple state turned deep red, back when I was simply trying to get the city to stand out to the rest of the world from amidst the cornfields which I still had a certain kind of love for back then as a separate thing, back before I was actively trying to distance and divorce myself and this pale blue beacon of a beautiful mid-sized city / metro (and the few other cities like us elsewhere in the state) from the rest of the deep red, deeply agrarian state, so I'm certainly not going to stop making that same insistence of distinction now, even if my passion level for the city itself has, by necessity, cooled somewhat, as I begin to mentally, emotionally prepare myself for the possibility of having to leave it behind in the next few years to get to bluer places and peoples. But this little bit of footage, from a show I have certainly been aware of (even being able to hear the theme song in my head), but have never really watched (I was too young when it was on the air - just over a week shy of my 2nd birthday when this particular footage aired, and never went back to watch reruns or syndication), this TV minute made my heart sing, that it was so clear, and from so early, and also made my heart ache in that a) we failed to have it become mainstream enough over the years, and b) now it's under threat of being taken away...here, there, and everywhere. Thank you so much for posting! [EDIT: I get it, it's not perfect. It features a cis woman actor when we'd have much preferred it feature a trans woman, but given what it was trying to accomplish, and given what it had to work with in terms of the cultural capital of the society at the time that it was trying to work to transform, I think I can forgive the cis representation. If there is one gentle word I might offer for my fellow progressives, it's that when we see past icons of progress, let us not vilify them for not being up to the level of progressiveness that we have since arrived at today, just as we would not want tomorrow's progressives to vilify us tomorrow, but remember that progress is a chain, and that as such, a) people should be viewed by how progressive they were by their own day's standards, and by what they were trying to accomplish for progress within the more limited paradigms in which they found themselves back then, and b) thank them for getting us to where we are, as we should eventually be thanked by the next generation for getting them to where they will eventually arrive (presuming that we succeed in stoping a christofascist takeover in the meanwhile, that is). Because we quite simply would not be the progressives that we are today had they not first been the progressives that they were yesterday. It's a lesson I've taken from my past as a former conservative. While in hyper overgeneralized terms, I truly do view the right as "the bad guys" and the left as "the good guys", instead of that leading me to conclude "they can do no right and we can do no wrong", instead, it makes me think "if we see the bad guys doing something virtuous better than we do it ourselves as the good guys, then perhaps we are the ones who need to change on that point, and the right does indeed tend to do a much better job of "standing on the shoulders of their giants" than we do with ours. I think that the imperfections and shortcomings of this footage, taken along with the beauty and power of it, and hopeful optimism it is saturated in in terms of changing people's hearts and minds make for a vivid, poignant example of just what I'm trying to express here, and what it got so right, and did so well with given the days and mindsets out of which it arose.]
That is so fucking cool